Conference 7.286::home_work

    	A friend of mine remembered seeing an add or product desription
    for a 'Whole Home Sentry' in a magazine recently but now can't find
    it again.
    
    	He's trying to find a home sentry to install at his house on
    the Cape.  It was just converted, (insulation and heating), into
    a year_round cottage.  What he's looking for specifically is a unit
    that is comprised of addon style sensors for various functions which
    plug into the main unit.  If any of the sensors trip the main unit,
    which connects to his phone, dials his number and plays a recorded
    message letting him know somethings wrong.  
        
    	The specific one he needs has a temperature sensor which can
    be adjusted to a specific setting.  He can live without the smoke 
    detector and the intruder features.  He primarily wants to be 
    informed if the furnace dies so he can jump in his car and get there 
    before the pipes freeze.  He plans to go to the Cape every other
    weekend or so now that it's winterized, so closing it for the season
    and draining all the systems just won't work.
 
	If anyone knows the brand name of this unit or where they can
    be purchased please let me know.  (NorthEast Security of Framingham
    - Natick will design and install one and then lease you it's service
    but it's expensive, ~$100 a month after initial installation costs.)
    
    						Thanks - Lee

     I believe Nutone makes exactly what your friend wants for ~$100-150.
    It connects to your phone and will call any number if certain
    conditions occur. One of them which is built-in is one for low temp.
    I just saw it advertised somewhere, if I can find it I'll let you
    know. But as far as availability is concerned Maynard Supply and
    many other electrical supply houses carry Nutone.
      I remembered this one because I am interested in one for the same
    reason.
    					Kenny

      Correction it's not Nutone but Duofone. The particular unit I
    saw is now sold by Radio Shack. It's new in their 1987 Cat. and
    sells for 99.95. It monitors for electricity being on, if the temp.
    is within preset limits, and listens for loud noises. If any of
    those conditions occur it phones continuously until message is
    received.
      It's just what I've wanted, the reason I haven't bought it yet is
    because I'm waiting for it to go on sale?!
    
    					Kenny

    
    One of the sensor alerts that is available is through radio shack.
    The sensor will call up to four telephone numbers.  It will monitor
    burglar and smoke alarms, power failures and temperature limits
    which you set.  It costs 99.95 and can be found on page 145 of the
    new Radio Shack cat.  (it also has battery backup)
    
    			george
    

    re. all
    
    Ken, George,
    
    	That sounds like exactly the one he's looking for!  Thanks *very*
    much.  I'll check Radio Shack on my way home tonite!
    
    							Lee
    

    I am seriously considering the Radio Shack system.  I convinced
    the local RS store manager to let me borrow the manual.  I brought
    it home and read it cover-to-cover and also thoroughly checked out
    the main unit at the store.  I also priced all the acces. and recently
    purchased their infrared unit for another application.  I really
    did,nt see anything wrong with any of it and was quite impressed
    with the "price/perforamnce" compared to the socalled "professional"
    systems.....although I have not yet purchased the system I have
    purchased a lot of other RS "telephone gizmos" and am quite satisfied.
    
    Any first hand experience out there with the RS security system?
    

    My wife and I had a security system installed in our house a few
    months ago. It includes switches at the doors, breaker bars on the
    cellar windows and the infrared things-on-the-wall. It is monitored
    by a security company in Worcester. It can send messages for fire,
    break-in and medical emergency. The control panels can be used as
    panic buttons by pressing two pre-assigned buttons simultaneously.
    It has its flaws, but any system has them. And as long as the crook
    (which is what we are trying to protect against most of the time)
    doesn't know what those are, you stand a good chance of having your
    property well protected. Besides, we are not what you would call
    the Louvre or Fort Knox. It has a battery back up that will work
    for about six hours after power interruption, too. You can also
    get discount on your insurance, but only if it is monitored (I think).
    Bottom line, we are pleased and I feel a lot better about my wife
    and daughter having to be home alone in a fairly isolated neighborhood.
    We are still waiting for the letter from the security company so
    we can get our discount on our insurance premium.
    

		Radio Shack = R.S. = Rat Shack = Rat Sh*t

			my $.02

    I guess we're all entitled to our $.02  I have had good luck.
    

   
    We had a security system installed in our house a few years ago.
    I highly recommend the type of security system which has an fire
    detector as well as an alarm system.  I also suggest that it is the type
    connected directly to the local police/fire station.  Ours contained 
    a tape recorder which automaticly contacted the police station when 
    the alarm or smoke detector when off.  My feeling is, if you're
    not around when there's a fire, at least the firemen will be there
    before your house burns to the ground.  Typical smoke detectors
    will "go off" when there's a fire, but what good is that if you're
    not home?  
    
    The system had to be registered with the local police department.
    If you activate the alarm by accident (my wife did this once, police
    got there in less than 5 minutes!) more than 3 times a year, they
    make you pay a fine.   There is a way to abort the message before
    it is sent to the police but she did'nt know how at the time. 
    
    Ours also had a "panic" button which activated the alarm, it was
    located in the bedroom.  It also had a mechanism on the stairs which 
    activated the alarm when stepped on.  
    
    Chip

    re:.1
    
    I purchased the radio shack security system and my wife and I installed
    it during the construction of our new house.  I'm fairly happy with
    it thus far.  I do have "bugs" in a couple of the circuits, but
    haven't had time to investigate the cause.  I can bypass these
    buggy circuits to still give me partial security.
    
    The main problem I have with this system (and it would probably
    be the same for any system) is an easy way to debug the thing once
    the walls are up.  A co-worker installed the same unit and she did
    a smart thing.  Wires were run from each window to the control panel
    area.  They are attached to a supplementary bank of terminal pairs
    that hook these window circuits up into one large series circuit.
    When there is a bug in this circuit, it is easy to remove individual
    windows from the circuit until the culprit is found.  Of course,
    the more wire that you run, the greater the chance that a wire gets
    hit by a sheetrock screw.
    
    We simply ran the wire from the control panel to the first window
    in the circuit, then window to window.  Made running the wire easier,
    but now the only way to debug the circuit is to remove sensors one
    at a time from the windows.  No wonder I haven't spent much time
    debugging!
    
    Bill

    Re:  a few back...
    
    Concerning insurance discounts, I was told by Metpay that to qualify,
    all you need are deadbolt locks and fire extinguishers (assuming
    you already have smoke detectors).  They didn't elaborate on security
    systems adding to the discount.

    
    RE .7 *and a few back*
    
    We installed a system after being broken into three years ago, and
    had to supply Metpay with a copy of the receipt from the company
    that installed the system before they would give us a discount.
    It was funny, because I wondered about that too (I read their
    requirements for this insurance discount), since I had deadbolts
    smoke detectors and a couple of fire extinguishers before the alarm
    system.  However, they would not give me a discount until I installed
    the system.
    
    Regarding a couple of other responses about direct call-in, versus
    monitoring, I think that monitoring is probably a better way to
    go, other than the fact that your local police department greatly
    favors this approach.  When we've inadverdently set off our alarm,
    the company has always called within a couple of minutes.  As I
    see it, monitoring does a couple of things:
    
    	Doesn't tie up the police with a false, if you've set it off
        (both the people and the systems aren't foolproof; it happens).
        In a small town, with a small police department, this can be
        a pain.
    
    	Also makes the police accountable for their response.  When
   	your system calls into the monitoring service, most systems
    	send a message with a time stamp, zone that went into alarm,
    	etc.  In many cases that information could be useful.
    
    	It's not overly expensive.  We pay $27 a quarter (same folks
        who installed the system), and that will get you the monitoring,
    	and notification, meaning that if my alarm goes off when I'm
    	home, they'll call the police, then call a series of numbers
    	we've given them (until they reach someone) to tell us that
    	our alarm has gone off.

    insurance - discounts only apply to systems that automatically notify
    		the police by wire or by phone.
    
    radio shack - I selected radio shack over competing Mountain West
    		products for price/performance and SIMPLICITY.
   
    multiple zones - multiple zones are excellent not only for debugging
    		but for features too: some zones can be delayed, others
    		can be instant.
    
    debugging - I installed my own shorting panel such that when you
    		push a button all loops but one are shorted out: if
    		"loop" light goes on, that circuit is ok. This has saved
    		me many a trip to the basement, barn, garage, & back door!
     
    false alarms - some cities and towns charge $$ in fines for false
    		alarms: be sure the system is understood by everyone
    		in the family and not so sensitive that the wind on
    		a curtain or the dog pushing on the door will activate!
    
    dead bolts - this is the MAIN FEATURE of my system: the loop is
    		only closed when the bolts-are-thrown -- there is a
    		button imbedded in the bolt hole.  This means that 
    		the system is well hidden and you can use it to check
    		to see that everything is locked, not JUST closed!
                                                                
    security - the best security is alert neighbors! They see more than
    		the best system; and you should tell them what to do
    		if the alarm goes off!
    
    	Rick
    	Merrill

    I think the sticker on the window saying that the house has an alarm
    system is the most functional part of the whole system.
    My neighbors house was broken into about a year ago complete with
    alarm system(no stickers) and the alarm was screaming away 10 hours
    later when they got home. What good does an alarm system do if it
    dosent call the police? Here in Colorado it is illegal to have a
    dumb system call too many false alarms. Now if you go thru an alarm
    service that has its own center that is called and then investigates
    and reports to the police you have a working combo.
    The idea about using stickers only came from a cop friend of mine
    and worked fine thru a rash of breakins in my area. I would like
    to add that homes on either side of me were broken into but mine
    was skipped.
    
    I still think paranoia and a 12 gauge work better.
    
    -jerry
    

    Seems to be a new topic if note 1111 is correct...
    
    Any thoughts on burglar alarms?
    
    My own experiences are limited - ADT was advertising a system on the
    radio heavily about a year ago.  I got the literature - it would have
    run about $1500 for a medium size house, including hookup to their
    central station so the police can be alerted.  The price seems high and
    the system seems to be 1950s technology - basically wire running to all
    doors and windows, magnetic reed switches, etc. Big pain to install. 
    
    Sears (Yeah, ugh) has a system by Black and Decker which would probably
    be under $500 (no central station hookup, though).  This system has no
    wires and uses digitally-encoded ultrasonic signals to communicate
    between the various door and window sensors and the main control
    module.  All kinds of fancy options and features, including battery
    backup. This system seems to be more state of the art and is obviously
    cheaper and easier to install. 
    
    Aren't there also systems that detect motion via ultrasonic something
    or other?  Are these any good?
    
    Only other input I have is from a police officer who said that most
    of the home alarms they answer are false, mainly due to low quality
    and or improperly installed/setup systems.

    the guy across the street from my parents something which is tied
    into the police dept.  about a month ago the thing malfunctioned
    and went off.  we called the police when they didn't show up after
    about 5 minutes of waiting, and they said they were aware of it,
    and would have a car on the way shortly.  10 minutes later (15 total)
    they showed up.
    
    since, as .0 stated, most of the time these things go off it is
    a malfunction, do the police take them seriously?  i could have
    robbed this guys house between the time i called the police and
    the time they showed up.  my father has one of the old EICO systems
    in his house, not connected to anything.  to me it's just as effective
    if the police ignore their warnings...
    
    maybe just the warning stickers from radio shack is enough to keep
    a burglar away?
    
    can somebody tell us more about how the police are supposed to respond
    to alarms, and how the alarms are tied into the police dept?  i'd
    be pretty upset if i spent all that money and they ignored me.
    
    bs (WARNING - trained attack turtle on premises!)

    We have a whole house security system, installed professionally
    and tied in to a monitoring service.  Upon detection of an event,
    the system turns on the exterior siren and dials the monitoring
    service.  The system reports the type of event (breakin, smoke/fire
    or panic button).  The monitoring service waits one minute, then
    calls the appropriate authorities (police, fire, police).  
    
    For the cases when the detected event is a false alarm or due to
    operator error, we call the monitoring service as soon as the alarm
    system hangs up the phone, give them our account number and password
    (just like logging in) and they either do not call the authorities
    or call whomever they just called to cancel their original request.
    
    For this monitoring service, we pay $18 per month.  Our home is
    somewhat isolated and the $18 is well worth the security it provides
    my wife when I am away.
    
    By the way, our community has an ordinance about the occurrence
    of false alarms from these type of systems.  You are allowed three
    false alarms (lifetime).  After the third, you pay $35 per police
    response and some other amount per fire response.
    
    Also, upon notification of our home insurance carrier of the
    installation of a monitored security system, we received a flat
    5% discount on our premium.
    
    Editorial:  being particular about home improvements and the like,
    I did not care for the quality of the installation of our or friends'
    security systems -- it is obvious that they were added on.  I would
    highly recommend your building it in to new construction (at least
    wiring and sensors) even if you do not install the monitoring system
    right off the bat.  Our system is a combination of remote transmitters
    and wiring -- effective, but not always pretty.
    
    Randy
    

    My house was robbed last November.  I can't say we weren't warned,
    though.  After we moved in last May, our neighbor said our house had
    been hit 3 times in four years.  The house is not very visible from the
    neighbors, so the burglars didn't have to worry about being seen.
    We had discussed getting an alarm the night before we got hit.   
    
    In talking with the police, they said it is usually kids.  The best
    alarm is one that makes a LOT of noise but that a hookup to police/service
    is sometimes useful (e.g. if your house is isolated), but not always
    necessary.  They also said that dogs are usually not a deterrant.
    Ours is to friendly, so we knew it wouldn't be.  They said they
    had handled a recent call where a Doberman had to be destroyed
    because the intruders had just kicked the hell out of him.  I'd
    bet a Rochwielder (sp?) would do the trick, though.
    
    We called around and got estimates ranging between $950 and $1400
    (we have a 3-br. Colonial w/2-car garage under).  We ended up going
    with Mellonics Alarms in Chelmsford (250-1192) who came in with
    one of the lower quotes.  He charged $125 for each window/door or
    motion detector plus parts.  We have been very pleased with the work
    he did.  He loves to compete in bids with guys like ADT and American
    Alarms, because he uses the same equipment (mostly NAPCO, I think)
    they do but he doesn't have a high overhead.  Our installation has
    two infrared motion detectors, magnetic switches on the garage doors
    and basement windows and recessed switches on some doors and windows.
    
    I stayed home the day he installed.  This is definitely something
    a good DIYer could handle.  It's a matter of getting the right
    equipment, planning the proper zones, snaking a lot of wires,
    drilling a few holes, installing the boxes, and testing it out.
    
    If anyone is interested in the details of installation, I'd be happy
    to put them in a response here.
    
    Rob
                     

    Many towns no longer allow hooking up alarm systems to the police
    station.  Our system is hooked up to a central service in Waltham
    and it works very well.  We've had one false alarm due to a faulty
    switch (not the installers fault), a couple where we've accidently
    set it off, and once when the cleaning service set it off.  If we
    accidently set it off and we call the central site fast enough,
    they won't call in the police.  An exception to this is the "ambush
    code" the system will send in certain cases.  They immediately call
    the police on that one.  In addition to calling the police, they
    attempt to reach an authorized individual to let them know that
    the alarm has gone off (e.g. me at work, my wife at work, wife's
    parents).  After the police have been notified, however, we
    have to call them and tell them it is a false alarm.
    They still come out, but they don't burn any rubber getting there.
    Each time they've come, it's been within 5-10 minutes.
    
    The service runs $12-$15 per month (not exactly cheap), but our
    house is fairly isolated and we can't rely on neighbors to hear
    the alarm and call it in.
    
    Rob

    Re .1 (what's at the police station, and how do they respond?)
    
    I work for two police departments, so this is coming from the source.
    At the police station is an alarm panel, usually with two indicators
    per alarm.  Each alarm is numbered, and the dispatcher has to look
    up in a book the location of the triggered alarm.  Some towns just
    give the alarm number to the cruisers, which then have to look it up
    in a book (this is to avoid tipping off burglers with scanners).
    The two indicators are for determining whether the alarm has really
    been tripped, or is just malfunctioning (some alarms can't distinguish
    between the two events).
    
    As for how the police respond to alarms, obviously if this is the 28th
    time this month that alarm's gone off, they are not going to take it
    seriously,  They'll still respond (by law, they have to), but at a 
    reduced rate.  On the other hand, if it's 2:30 in the morning and the
    people have called to let the police know that they're going away for
    the week, they'll probably send at least two cars right over to check
    it out.  But, who knows how far away the nearest free car is!
    
    If you do decide to go the DIY route with an alarm installation, check
    with your local PD beforehand.  They may have regulations on how often
    your autodialer can call, how long it can "hold" their line, special
    numbers to call, rules on how long an outside audible alarm can sound
    before it resets, number of false alarms permitted per month/year
    before the fines start, etc.
    
    Even if they have no regulations, it's a good idea to leave them a
    number where you can be reached should the alarm go off.  Be nice to
    your neighbors -- ever listened to an alarm bell sounding for several
    hours?  I once was called out with the local fire department to put
    a ladder up the side of this nice guy's house, and cut the cable
    leading to his alarm bell.  The police were getting tired of getting
    calls, and decided 12:30am was late enough to wait for this guy to
    get home.  Of course, he came home as soon as we cut the cable!

Hi,
    
    I'm new to this file, hope I don't do anything to break the rules,
    I did read them!
    
    Anyways, I am contemplating an alarm and was wondering if you would
    be willing to supply names of systems and cost.  I am particularly
    interested in the type monitored by a company ($27 a quarter seems
    reasonable)  Is this the ADT system?   
    
    Thanks in advance,
    
    	/bernadette

    	Every good book I've read on the subject has stated you should
    not notify the police when you're going to be away.  Notify a neighbor
    instead.  Also, don't notify the folks at the alarm service.  The
    more people you tell the better the chance of being ripped off (cops
    and alarm sevice employees are people too).
                                     
    Douglas

    ADT is one such company.  American Alarms is another.  I believe
    both of these do their own monitoring.  They are a little higher
    priced for their installations than some of the smaller guys.
    I think their monthly charges are fairly competive.  Some of
    the smaller guys also do their own monitoring, but I'd
    recommend against using them.
    
    The system I have was installed by an independent installer (see
    my previous replies).  He has an arrangement with ND Security Systems
    in Waltham, where our system is set up to call.  The installer
    (Mellonics Alarms in Chelmsford) bills his clients and pays NDSS.
    The service costs $15/mo.  At leat I know that if the installer
    goes out of business, the monitoring company will still be around.
    
    The equipment in my system is made by NAPCO (total cost about $950).
    The main controller comes in different models, depending on a couple
    of special features and # of zones.  They don't vary much in price.
    The one we have has a ROM that the installer programmed to customize
    the system as we desired (delay entry/exit times, panic codes, etc).
    
    Rob

    I don't think the size of the company has anything to do with the
    quality of the equipment or the service you get. Our system was
    installed by a fairly new outfit out of Worcester (Basic Security
    Systems) and I have no complaints about their equipment or service.
    Right now the monitoring is being done by Security First in Worcester
    but they will be getting their own system in a couple of months.
    If they ever go out of business, all I have to do is contract with
    another monitoring service that will be able to receive and understand
    the signal from my equipment. All they have to do is reprogram my
    equipment to dial their number and of course $bill$ me.

    If you are using a security system with an auto-dialer, you should make
    sure the phone line is not easily accessible outside the house. A
    professional will cut the wires before breaking in. Another solution is
    a leased line to the alarm company which will trip the alarm if the phone
    line is cut. This is how most banks and commercial sytems are connected.
    
    - Rich 

    .-1  Leased line = $$$$$, right?
    
    I also wondered about the need to make the telephone connection
    difficult to access from outside the house.  Does the telephone
    company have anything to say about it?  Do they even care?
    
    You're right that a pro would probably cut the phone line.  But
    the pro would also figure out that there are motion detectors,
    window/door switches, and a loud siren to go with a battery backup
    to the alarm in case of power failure. This adds up to the thing
    going off and making mucho noise, thus drawing attention from any
    passerby's and neighbors, unless you are REALLY isolated.
    
    Most pro's will probably move on to the next house.  Unless, of
    course, you've got something that they really want....

    Rob    

    I disagree strongly with the statement that you shouldn't tell anyone
    (neighbors are people, too!).  Maybe my vision of the world is clouded
    by my small town background.  Yes, the police in Revere probably did
    steal some cartons of cigarettes.  But by notifying the PD that
    you're not going to be around, they can cruise by the house more
    often than usual, checking that the windows are all still down,
    the phone and/or power wire hasn't been cut (thereby taking out
    your mage-watt alarm siren and twenty-number autodialer), etc.

    They'll also know who to call if they discover something wrong with
    the house.  I remember one case where the people were away; luckily,
    they had notified the police.  Early one winter morning, in checking
    out the place, an officer noticed water pouring out from around the
    garage doors (the garage was under the house).  He called it in, got
    the house opened up, and saved some serious damage.  Turns out an
    uninsulated water pipe in the unheated garage's ceiling had burst
    due to the cold weather.  Can you imagine coming home from vacation
    to find a skating rink where you used to park the Subaru!?
    
    Jim

    P.S.  This note should really be merged with 1181.  They're discussing
    the same subject, only 1181 was earlier and has more replies.
    
    Jim

    No security system or police drive bys could match the "watchful"
    eye of the neighbor I have across the street!  No monthly payments,
    no false alarms.  I just have to put up good shades.
    
    Actual conversation:
    
    Me:  Last night some kid on a moped stopped in my driveway at 2 in
         the morning and woke me up!  I've got to get that fence back up.

    Her: Geez, I don't know how I missed that.

    re the last two.
    I have retired couples living on both sides and behind me.
    They all watch my house like hawks as well as helping me keep
    up(I live alone) by turning my water off for me after I have gone
    to work. I belive it impossible to get to my porch without
    at least one of them seeing you. They are all a part of neighborhood
    watch and that makes it even better.
    
    -j
    

    The situation that prompted the base note was a breakin at a summer
    home in the middle of nowhere, and I mean nowhere.  It's not within an
    incorporated town, so the police consists of the sheriff, who gets to
    cover everything in the county that's not a city or town.  A phone
    hookup is useless since the response time would be so long. 
    
    On the other hand the crime rate is very low in this place.
    Professional thieves are nonexistent, so basically I'm trying to
    protect against kids, vagrant clamdiggers, etc (the stuff taken
    in the break indicates that this is indeed the "audience" for the
    alarm).
    
    I'm opting for motion detectors connected to a very loud bell (it
    carries over the water and can be heard despite the isolation) plus
    some intimidating looking stickers and red lights on the outdoor
    keyswitch for the system.
    
    I think the big step function in alarm costs comes when you are
    trying to prevent someone who really wants in from getting in (pros).
    
    Does anyone have any additional ideas for the winter?  It's likely
    to be unoccupied for 4 months.
    

    For Unoccupied homes there is one system that has always succeeded
    in repelling unauthorized entry: 10 second tear gas cartridge!!
    
    Unfortunately it appears to tick off burglars that they are liable
    to torch the house on their next visit.
    
    rmm
    

    I seem to recall an article in Popular Mechanics a few years ago about 
their "dream" garage, complete with everything the average geek would need 
to build Indy 500 winners in.....

    Thier security systems were three levels, as the garage was built 
somewhere within the confines of New York City.......

    First level was good locks and deadbolts.....windows fully covered and 
grills installed,etc.

    Second level was a trip alarm such as we have been talking about 
earlier here, bells, whistles, etc.

    Third level, should you circumvent all that, was 4 of the quartz 
halogen off road vehicle lights, output in excess of (maybe?) 75Kw each, or 
some such incredible number. The idea beiing, should anyone get past 
everything else, when the door was forced open before the alarm was 
properly deactivated, the lights went on in a "blaze of glory".....the 
police probably could have come by a half hour later and picked up the 
blind burglar without any trouble....

    Sounds like a viable idea to me, although the though of torching the 
house is always a possibility. I helped rebuild such a case two years ago 
for my boss after his old vacation camp was torched out of spite. You don't 
want to break into that place now..... 

Vic H

    Somewhat in the same vein as .14, I've always thought that about
    six  200db sirens going off in the area you don't want burglers
    to get into would probably do it....

    The problem with the teargas canisters is that tear gas is really
    a suspension rather than a gas.  After the tear gas settles, you
    have this white stuff all over the place and it's a real mess to
    clean up.  The lights and sirens would be a cleaner solution.
    
    -al

    Another good neighbor is a policman. We have a state trooper and
    two town officers in the neighborhood. Although I get the normal
    foot twitch response (gas pedal foot) when I pass the statie's blue
    cruiser in his driveway--very nice looking Caprice, I might add--it
    does give me a sense of security.
    
    Marty

    For those of you with neighbors... We held a 'crimewatch' meeting
    at our house last year after the development was fully occupied.
    A representative from the PD gives a little presentation and there
    is a Q+A session, etc.
    Although the information at the meeting was pretty much common sense,
    having everyone meet everyone was well worth the effort (and the
    mess from a dozen kids in the livingroom). Everyone now tends to
    look out for each other more. There's a definate sense of security
    around. We also have those signs posted saying this neighborhood
    is protected by 'neighborhood watch'. A little corny, but if it's
    enough to make some punk go somewhere else, what the hell?
    John

    	There nothing wrong with "corny" things.  Sometimes I think that
    that's what this country needs a little more of.
    
    Rich   :-)

    My opinion:
    If someone really wants to break in, they will, alarm or no alarm.
    Spend your money on keeping them out. Of course, if your house has
    windows like most do, this point is moot.
    
    The most secure place I've lived in was an apartment on the 3rd
    floor - the owner let me install my own deadbolt. The only way in
    was a ladder to the window or an axe through the door.  FWIW
    -Tom R.

    
    Can people suggest sources for wireless systems in the Boston area?
     I'm interested in putting in a system in an already-built house
    but am not excited about 1500-2000$ for the installation.
    
    Where can you get these things?  Who makes them?  Brand information,
    etc. would be welcome.  So far in this note, there's only been the
    mention in .0 about the Sears/Black&Decker system.
    
    Thanks,
    Andy

I put a perimeter alarm system into my house 5 years ago - I used ADEMCO
components. It has yet to false - though we have had a tradesperson trigger
it by moving a door they weren't supposed to while we were out.

Based on all the war stories I'd heard, I didn't put in any motion sensors
and it's a wired system - no transmitters,etc.

I'd recommend that, unless there is NO WAY to do it, you use a wired system.
Copper wire doesn't wear out, grow old, run down, etc. The system is
intrinsically SIMPLE. It's almost impossible to fool it - in a good alarm
system with "SUPERVISION" (means that the sensor loops are watched for BOTH
OPENS and SHORTS), you can't short or break the sensor lines without
triggering the alarm.

Given the circumstances, I'd recommend that you use an Electronic Siren
plus an external strobe light mounted on the siren speaker - bells and sirens
do carry a long distance, but WHERE THEY COME FROM is hard to determine.

Also, DON'T use a keyswitch arming mechanism on the ouside of the house -
 use a time delayed entry/exit scheme. If your property is as remote as you 
say, a determined burglar could
just hack the switch out of the wall and disarm the system.

In general, a monitoring service is a good idea. Also, almost any decent
system will have an automatic bell cutoff after some fixed time interval.
One thing to watch: Some systems DISARM THEMSELVES once the bell cutoff
occurs! A thief just trips your alarm and runs off, waits a coupek hours,
and waltzes in...

Dennis

    Re .15, the phone company quite willingly installed our phones lines
    up at the top of the house, with the electrical lines.  Also installed
    the boxes on the inside of the house.  No additional cost over the
    standard installation fee.
    
    Any recommendations on monitoring firms?  Names, please of firms
    that might cover the Brookline/Milford/Hollis, NH area?  

    In the Nashua area, try Abel Systems.  They're in the book.
    
    pbm
    

    I am sorry that I missed this note on burglar alarms earlier.
    
    Re: -2  Avoid wireless systems, even though they are cheaper.  The
    issue is the method on which an alarm is triggered.  Do you have
    a normally off system or a normally on system?
    
    A normally off system, like most wireless systems, has nothing
    happening unless there is a problem.  Then an alarm is transmitted
    to the receiver.  The issue is that you won't know of a system failure,
    such as a dead battery.  The unit simply won't transmit.  (Yes,
    I know that some systems notify you when the alarm battery is low,
    but that is not common and often doesn't work.)
    
    A normally on system runs a current to all of the components in
    the system.  If there is a break in a connection, the alarm is tripped.
    If a component fails, there is a false alarm.  But, you know about
    it.
    
    I guess you need to ask, which is the worse problem, a FALSE POSITIVE
    or a FALSE NEGATIVE (when something IS really happening).
    
    I would recommend getting in touch with B & J Custom Alarms of
    Chelmsford, 256-7230.  They install and maintain the equipment and
    will service anywehere in Eastern MA, NH and even Maine.
    
    One thing to note about a monitoring service, it is cheaper for
    them to wait a minute for you to call them than for anything else.
    I would personally recommend:
    
    1.  They call you to see if there is a false alarm.
    
    2.	If there is no answer, a busy or if you cannot properly identify
    	yourself, they call the police and then a list of people such
    	as your office, a neighbor, a relative, etc.
    
    3.	Include smoke detectors.  It is a good idea to have the fire
    	dept notified about that roast you left to burn via time bake.
    
    Roger
    

    Does anyone have any information on the latest line of infared motion
    detecting security lights - these will turn on when sensing movement 
    inside a specific "protected" field...
                           
    
    Do they work?
    
    How sensitive are they?  Range?
    
    Best brands?
    
    Thanks...
    
    

    Lechmere had the Heath/Zenith unit on sale last week ($40.00) and
    Bradlees has them this week (same price).  We bought one last week
    and were so pleased we bought another this week.  I'm not the
    technical brains in the family (my hubby is) but if I recall
    correctly the field of vision is 110 degrees and the sensitivity
    level is adjustable.  It has a photocell so it isn't on all day,
    has an override if you want to put the lights on, and came with
    all the necessary hardware.  There's a test mode for when you're
    trying to determine the best angles, etc.  
    
    Since he's a EE I'll take his word for the technical virtues.
    Overall, especially at the sale price, I think it's a good deal.
    (And, in the words of Ronco..."it really, really works".  We've
    tried sneaking up on it and boy is it a surprise when you're
    pupils slam shut from the lights.  
    
    Evelyn

    I've been using one for a couple of years (I think I bought it
    from Markline); they're very nice. Had a problem once when a
    bug built a cocoon in the photosensor cavity, but aside from
    that it's been completely reliable.
    
    There are some side effects you should be aware of. The biggest
    convenience of ours is having the driveway light come on when we
    drive in, but as a security measure, it looks as though somebody
    noticed you arriving and turned on the lights to greet/investigate
    you. Now, if you're NOT a thief, but a delivery person or contractor
    or some such, you  can get rather peeved when you then ring the
    doorbell ... and wait ... and ring ... and wait ... "*@#*!*$! but
    they're home; they turned the lights on..."

     I've been using one for a year now and agree that they're good
    for security and convenience...the only problem is that when all
    the cats and dogs in the neighborhood find out that you have one,
    they seem to like to come by and get their jollies by causing
    it to turn on !!! :) Maybe it's just a matter of adjusting the
    sensitivity, but I'm just not inclined to get up on a ladder
    to adjust it, to keep occasional dogs from causing it to turn on.
                                               
                                                           ,Jeff
    

is the 'time-to-turn-off' period adjustable?  What min,max?


Someone mentioned you can hook it up so you can also turn them on via 
a switch - how does that work?

/jeff (who's almost sold)

    Re .4
    
    I'm not sure if the turn off period is adjustable.  I'll ask when
    I go home tonight.  
    
    Ours was installed in the place of an existing flood light controlled
    by a wall switch.  If you just turn on the switch the sensor is
    activated and the light won't come on unless motion is detected.
    To override you just recycle the switch off & on and the lights
    stay on.
    
    They must be popular, when we decided to pick up another one
    Lechmere was out of stock and issuing rainchecks with an estimated
    4 week leadtime.
    
    Evelyn

    
    Has anybody tried the RCA brand?  Spag's has these on sale this
    week for around $28.  I read the directions on it but it didn't
    sound like a simple replacement operation.  Any experience with
    this type out there?
    
    Phil

    Addition to .5
    
    I checked and the turn-off period is not adjustable for the Heath/
    Zenith unit.  We haven't timed it yet but it seems to stay on for
    a reasonably long time (5-10 minutes I'd guess).  
    
    Our's is installed on the back of the house primarily for security
    reasons.  I think the lights stay on long enough to discourage 
    someone from hanging around long enough to attempt to break in.
    
    Evelyn
    

    Seems like these items are poplular...
    
    Since they seem to power standard sockets, I would assume that one
    could place an ac plug adapter into one of the sockets to power a
    siren or similar sound device...or even something inside the house
    to turn on lights or wake occupants...
    
    Has anyone tried such a setup using a master kill switch?
                                          
    

    RE:6
    
    We've had an RCA motion switch for 2 years. Works great. The advantage
    of this type is you can connect to your normal outdoor lamps instead
    of using floodlamps. One minor nit, they sometimes stay on in subzero
    temperatures.
    
    - Rich
    

    RE .3
    
    Keep the critters out with one of those rodent Ultrasonic beepers.
    them little critters will be gone really quick.
    
    /cal

    RE .10
    
     Who manufactures "Ultrasonic beepers" and where can I get one out
    here in New Hampshire ? ...do they really work ?
    
                                                        ,Jeff
    

    RE: RCA
    
    I've installed four of the RCA units: 3 outdoors and 1 indoor. 
    The outdoor units work with existing lighting (no big ET type sensor
    head sticking out of your wall :^) - the electronics fit (Just barely!)
    inside the lamp's electrical box, and a seperate wire leads to the
    sensor (~10').  This allows you to put the sensor in a) an
    inconspicuous place, b) a convenient place, or c) an effective place.
    
    The units have an adjustable time delay (10 seconds to 15 minutes)
    and are sensitive to the ambient light level (no lights coming on
    at noon time!)  The nit a few notes back about subzero temperatures
    is true.  That and if the sensor gets soaked in a good downpour.
    The latter can be cured by making sure that the sensor doesn't get
    soaked!  (Doctor - it hurts when I do this!  Dumpkopff - don't do
    that!!!  ;^)
    
    The interior unit I have plugs into an existing wall outlet with
    a male/female plug.  Your existing lamp then plugs into the female
    portion of the plug.  The sensor/electronics assembly can then be
    place within about 6' of the plug.  Same features as the outdoor
    unit.  Except you don't have to worry quite so much about soaking
    the sensor...  Haven't quite figured out why that is, though; maybe
    I lived in Seattle too long!!!
    
    RCA also makes one other unit that replaces existing indoor light
    switches.  Haven't tried that one yet.
    
    These units seem to have a range of about 20-30'.  This mainly depends
    upon ambient temperature (infrared, remember?), direction of travel
    (across the field of view is better than towards the sensor), and
    body temperature (my wife consistently turns it on about 5' before
    I do!  That's the only variable we can think of - we've even checked
    clothing color to no consistent conclusions!)
    
    By the way, we got ours at K-Mart, about $32 on sale.
    
    We're happy with 'em!
    
    Regards,
    
    Aaron

    Does the RCA model have the override feature, allowing you to turn
    the lights on manually? Thanks.
    
    Marty

    Yup, on the outdoor RCA models, you can make the light come on
    indefinitely by toggling the switch off then on within a 5 second
    period.  If you wait longer than 5 seconds, the light will
    automagically turn itself off after the preset timeout period.
    
    The indoor unit has a three position switch which performs the same
    function.
    
    Happy automating, (sounds perverted, doesn't it?)
    
    Aaron  :^)

    Does anyone have any comments on the wireless system made by Schlage?
    I would like to put in an alarm since we live in the boonies but
    2k seems expensive.
    
    Thanks

    Amway has one of the best wireless Perimeter Alarm systems on the market.
    The distributor comes in to do a security survey to find out how
    much your system would cost.  It really offers a lot; programmable
    zone protection, remote control, lighting control, etc.  Also comes
    with a 5 year Repair or Replacement Program.
    
    They also offer a monitoring system for $150.00 a year.  The monitoring
    system helps prevent false alarms because the monitor will call
    the house and if the homeowner is home they have to give their password
    and the alarm won't be called into the police.
    
    They also have a panic button for the elderly or disabled.  They
    keep this small transmitter with them so if they fall and hurt them
    selves they can press this button which relays a signal to the monitor.
    The monitor will then call the house and if there is no answer will
    call an ambulance (which hopefull will take all of 10 min. to get
    there).   
    
    Kathy

RE: .15 and others, securing phone lines entering house


Currently, the phone wire comes in over the street, hooks to the
house on the outside 2 stories high, and then thru heavy wire
(I presume 2 conductor) goes thru a series of insulators down to
a small plastic box on the outside of the house about 1' above
ground level. In preparation for an alarm installation, I'd like
to make this more secure. What is the best alternative?

Should I leave it alone (an audible alarm will protect house in case
phone wire snipped)?

Should I run the wire thru a conduit, and move that box to the inside
using an LB to enter the house?
Will 1/2" galvanized harm phone signals? What about other types of
conduit... PVC? Aluminum? 

Should I fish the wires into the attic, and then down to the basement from
there, thus removing it from the side of the house altogether?

Some other method?

                On my house that small plastic box is mounted about 10ft
        above the ground and the phone wire goes into the attic (I have
        no basement). The easiest thing to do (depending on your access
        from the attic to the basement) is probably to move the box up
        to the "top" of the wall and run the wire down a piece of
        conduit and into the basement. That box MUST be accessable as it
        is where the phone line lightining protector is (there will be a
        wire going to ground) and it is where the phone company will
        likely test your line if you call them to come out on a problem.
                
                /s/     Bob

Note that the phone company owns the phone wire up to and including that box.
Homeowners own the wire once it has left the box.  Just for your information.

RE: .20, .21

Note .21 makes a very important point, as I found out recently. The phone
company does not permit the homeowner to move that box or their wire.
If you do you may have to pay for it.

    I moved my box 2 feet to allow the addition of a fireplace and I used
    one insulated staple to hold the wire away from the fireplace. About a
    year later I called the phone company because there was lots of static
    on the line. The repairman said "Gee, it looks like this box has been
    moved by someone other than the phone company, since we never use
    insulated staples." He told me that if the problem was due to the move
    (it turned out it was not) that I would have to pay for the repair
    because I had "tampered" with phone company property. 
  
RE .19
      
Given the above and need to be able to access the box, I'd suggest

(a) snaking a wire from a point in the basement where you can access
    the line running from the exterior box, up to the attic 
(b) drilling a hole to the outside and pusing the wire through the hole
(c) having the phone company move the box and connect to the new wire.
(d) connect the new line in the basement

That way you have removed the wire from the side of the house without
risking problems with the phone company.

    Does anyone know if I can purchase a monitored system from company
    "X" and install it myself or use the already exisiting door, window,
    and infared detectors.  This is of course an attempt to save $1500.00
    to $2000.00 on installation fees.
    
    Paul  

    re .26;
    
    I'm pretty sure that Black & Decker has a "do it yourself" system
    with an optional monitoring system. I'm not sure if you could get
    your existing system to cooperate with the black & Decker system.
    Lechmere has the Black & Decker system on display.
    
    Good luck,
    mike
    

            <<< JOET::DUA1:[000000.NOTES$LIBRARY]HOME_WORK.NOTE;2 >>>
                         -< Better living through DIY >-
================================================================================
Note 2686.1             INFO NEEDED ON HOME ALARM SYSTEMS                 1 of 3
BINKLY::WINSTON "Jeff Winston (Hudson, MA)"          19 lines   5-OCT-1988 13:05
                          -< one persons $.02 (bark) >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Having looked into to this for/with some relatives.  I think that the
wired, door/window switch, tape on window systems are obselete.  With
three or four motion-and-heat-sensing units, and a control panel and
panic button or two, you can cover most houses just fine.  If you're 
somewhat handy, you could install all this yourself.  My sense is that 
the big hassle is hooking up to your police dept., and that (sigh) 
some towns require that systems be installed only by "licensed 
professionals".,,,


Another idea:  For years, we lived on a street where it seemed like 
every house around us was burglarized once within a 10 year period, 
even though they all had complete alarm systems.  We never had a 
break-in, because of our unique, though a bit expensive, alarm
system... 



An Irish Setter, we called him "Lucky"

            <<< JOET::DUA1:[000000.NOTES$LIBRARY]HOME_WORK.NOTE;2 >>>
                         -< Better living through DIY >-
================================================================================
Note 2686.2             INFO NEEDED ON HOME ALARM SYSTEMS                 2 of 3
AKOV13::MATUS "Networks Prod Mktg Mgr for GIA"       98 lines   5-OCT-1988 13:20
                                -< Long reply >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I had an alarm system installed a couple of years back.  Here is
    what I have learned:
    
    1.  WIRED VS. WIRELESS.  
    
    Let me take wireless first.  Each monitor is basically a radio
    transmitter.  When conditions are normal, the transmitter is silent.
    When a trigger is tripped, then a signal is transmitted and a remote
    device receives it.  The problem is that there is no way to tell if the
    system is functioning normally.  For example, unless a device can
    transmit a message to indicate that the battery is low or has no
    power, you won't know that a component has failed and can't transmit.
    Further, if there is interference or some reason why the receiver
    doen't function properly, a problem won't be detected.
    
    A wired system can be "normally off" or "normally on".  The former
    works like the wireless system.  A normally on system sends current
    through wires to every single device.  If a device is not working
    for any reason, an alarm is sounded.  Further, except for more
    expensive digital wireless systems, only a normally on system can
    detect which particular device has been triggered.  Granted, there
    is some risk that you will get a false alarm because a diode blew
    or the vacuum cleaner smashed a detector, but, I would rather know
    immediately if any part of my security system is not functioning.
    
    Incidentally, a wired system does not mean tape on the windows anymore.
    You can wire motion and heat detecting units, as suggested in the
    previous reply.  Also, a few door switches are recommended on key
    entry points in case you wish to shunt one of the detectors (discussed
    below).  
    
    The big issue isn't wired -- it is "normally on" versus "normally
    off".
    
    2. DIY vs contractor
    
    I guess that depends on how good you are with carpentry and wiring.
    I went with a contractor.
    
    3. Brand preference
    
    If you use a monitoring company, I suggest that you find out what
    brands they will support.  That could influence your choice of system.
    
    4. Features
    
    I recommend that you have a system that allows you to shunt zones.
    For example, you may decide to put an infrared detector in your
    basement.  It would be good to be able to activate your alarm system
    while you are working in the basement.  A shunt would enable you
    to tell the system to disregard that particular zone.
    
    I recommend a keypad system over a keyed system.  It would also
    be good to have a number of different codes available.  For example,
    you may want to give a babysitter her own code to activate or
    deactivate the system.  Today's alarms allow you to set codes that
    are only valid at certain times.  Others will even keep a record
    of what code was used when.  In that way, if there was a robbery
    but your alarm was shut off, you can identify which person did it.
    Finally, keys can be lost and then found by somebody else.  I was
    concerned that if I lost my key ring, a person would have both the
    house key and alarm access.  With a keypad, they do not.
    
    My system also requires you to enter the code exactly.  If you don't,
    the system will ignore everything you type until there is a five
    second pause.  This prevents somebody from randomly punching numbers
    in a continuous frenzy and accidentally then finding your code.
    
    Finally, have a battery back-up that will last at least a day. You want
    the system to remember your codes and to be active during power
    failures.  (Which do happen in the winter.)  A rechargable battery is
    suggested.  (BTW, my alarm will be triggered if you attempt to remove
    the battery without typing a special code or if the battery gets low.
    This feature prevents somebody from disconnecting the battery if
    they are in the house (such as a construction worker) and then later
    come back and cut the power to the house.)
    
    5.  Central monitoring versus alarm
    
    Hey, when was the last time you stopped for an auto alarm siren?
    (OK, maybe you do, but can you say that for your neighbors?)
    
    A central monitoring system means that somebody will be there to
    answer the call of your system.  They can call the police and other
    people if you wish (perhaps a relative or your office).  You know
    that it has been handled.  (BTW, have the phone interface put in
    the line before any phones.  One common trick for a robber is to
    take the phone off the hook to prevent a system from dialing.  Your
    system should automatically control the entire phone line and hang
    up all calls.)
    
    I urge you to stay away from systems that broadcast a taped message.
    They are often ignored and the police hate them.
    
    Good luck on your selection.
    
    Roger
     

In Waltham MA, it is no longer possible to connect your burglar alarm
directly to the police department -- you must connect it to a private
security firm, who can call the police if they verify a genuine alarm.
So I'd suggest checking with your town police first to see what they like.

My parents also lived in a reasonably nice neighborhood in which they were
the only house on the block that wasn't burglarized.  They had a very
active dog.

I've been thinking of putting in some motion detection lights and leaving
it at that.  Not only might they scare away burglars who'd rather work in
the dark, they'll turn on automatically when I come home after dark!

	Luck,
	Larry

    In regards to note 29,  Wireless vs. Wired
    
    There are some pretty sophisticated wireless systems now that are
    called supervised wireless. The system checks each transmitter
    periodically to insure it is functioning correctly. It will tellyou
    when a low battery exists in one of your transmitters.
    
   A feature that is not possible with a wired system is the ability
    to have a handheld transmitter that you could turn on lights in the
    house from your car or hit a panic button or medical alert that
    would signal help. 
    
    I have recently seen units that offer a combination of wired and
    wireless,   the best of both worlds.                                       
                    

      I  used  to work part time installing alarm systems.  The last two
      replies are pretty good.  I agree with theire comments and add the
      following:
      
      1) I've seen several different brands of motion detectors and I've
      been able to walk right by all of them just by going very slow  --
      Yes  I  mean  V_E_R_Y  S_L__O___W...  Of  course  I had to know in
      advance where they were located.  On the other hand  I  helped  to
      investigat  a burlary in which access was gained by cutting a hole
      in the door.  The door wasn't opened; the alarm wasn't activiated.
      So  I'd  suggest  a  mix of (a) perimeter protection (i.e. tape on
      glass, magnetic or mechanical contacts on windows and doors), plus
      (b)  motion  detectors,  plus  (c)  presure  sensitive mats in key
      locations like halls and near doorways.
      
      2)  In choosing whether to install a local alarm bell/siren and or
      to have a centrally monitored system consider:  The local alarm is
      more likely to scare a burgler away.  A silent, monitored alarm is
      an attempt to catch the burglar.  Many smart burglars will get  in
      and  out  too  quickly  for police to get there in any case.  Many
      "casual" burglars can be scared away by the alarm before  they  do
      yet  more  damage  to your property.  Obviously a local alarm plus
      central monitoring is best, but if you can't have both I'd suggest
      that the local alaram is the first choice.
      
      3) Don't loose slight of reality.  If a thief really, really wants
      what you have there is NOTHING, up to and including  armed  troops
      that will keep him out.  (He'll just hire a bigger army!)  All you
      can hope to do is to make your  house  harder  to  rob  than  your
      neighbor's  so  that  the  thief will leave you alone and hit your
      neighbor.  (Now don't tell your neighbors I said that!)

DAK now has one of these in their catalog for $29.95

'heat sensing'  (not motion sensing)  (is this IR operation?)

inhibits operation during daylight

variable turnoff from 10sec - 15 min

good unit, good price?  or old technology?

thanx/j

SPAGs has a motion detector light for $25.  Plastic housing, two lamps, up
to 600W, disables during daylight, 4 minute turnoff.  You can wire it up
with a switch to force it off or a switch to force it on or both -- and I
think I've worked out how to wire a 3 way switch to it such that down puts
it in autoamtic mode, up forces it on, and leaving the switch in the
middle forces it off.

I bought one, but I haven't tried it out yet.  One of the reasons it is
so low cost (aside from the plastic construction) is that you have to
wire together the sensor and the lights yourself, rather than their
being wired together already inside the unit.  But wire nuts are cheap.

	Larry

Well, the DAK one is heat-sensing in nature.  I think i'm going to 
give it a try. but first, a few general questions:

1) can't you wire an ON override to ANY of these sensors?  I 
would think the wiring looks like:

                                 .----sensor---.
                   white---------+             +-----lamp-------black
                                 `------/~~~~~~'
                                      switch

	OR it is bad to short across the IR sensor???? ? ? ? ?

btw - if you have a SPDT CENTER OFF switch, couldn't you get ON/OFF/SENSOR 
wih the switch as follows:

                                 o----sensor---.
                   white---------o             +-----lamp-------black
                                 o-------------'
Again, is it bad to short across the IR sensor???? ? ? ? ?

I don't know how the IR sensors work, so I can't say for sure whether 
it is bad to short across them in general.  But it should work for the
SPAGS unit.  They give a two switch wiring diagram as follows:

	black	+----------+		+----------+	white
+---------------| switch 1 |------------|  Sensor  |--------+
|		+----------+		+-----+----+	    |
|					(red) |		    |
|					      |		    |
|	black	+----------+		      |		+---+---+
+---------------| switch 2 |------------------+---------| Lamps |
		+----------+				+-------+
					
Switch 2 forces the light on and (if switch 2 is off) switch 1
puts it into automatic mode.  This setup makes it possible to tie 
power to either or both sides of the sensor.  There's nothing in
the instructions warning not to use one of the switch combinations,
so it had better not mess up the sensor!  Probably the red output
from the sensor just connects to a relay, and doesn't affect the
sensor itself at all.  But I haven't looked inside to see.

So I plan to replace switches 1 and 2 with a 3 way switch, which is
what .-1 proposes.  I don't even plan to get a 3 position switch -- 
my use for leaving it forced off would be so minor that I'm willing 
to have to balance the switch in the middle to get that.

	Larry

PS - It is probably also heat sensing, because it also turns off 
in the daytime.

>PS - It is probably also heat sensing, because it also turns off 
>in the daytime.

Well, I won't dispute that the sun generates heat.  However, most of 
them have a photocell that inhibits operation during daylight.

    I have one of the Spags units, and I took it apart ( I know, curiosity
    killed..).  There is a relay inside, and if I recall correctly, it has
    a 12V coil and is rated at 5 amps.  I found that the unit turns on when
    it is windy outside.  It seems to sense the tree branches moving.  I
    made a sheet metal hood for it to restrict the view, which has reduced
    this problem.  Anyone else have their light turn on when it is windy? 
    
    gjd

    I don't think its the tree movement as much as a cool breeze over
    a warm surface. I have this problem, but only when I parked my car
    in the driveway some time in the evening. I think that the wind
    slightly cools my hood, so when the wind stops, and the hood warms
    up again, the infrared sensor detects the heat and turns the light
    on again.
    
    Eric

    
    -2  When we first got our light it would be activated by the wind
        fairly easy. We kept adjusting the sensitivity until we 
        found the right balance for us.  We have lots of coniferous trees 
        around the driveway and not far from the light.  Now the light 
        only goes on when it is "wicked" windy  -- a few times a year.

    
    any recomendations on brands 
    radio shack vs black&decker, vs whetever.
    and where to buy. 
    
    steve

    Reply to .33
    
    I recently installed a single zone Radio Shack system in my home.
    It cost 200.00 and included an auto-dialer.  This system was 
    easy to install, and works fine.
    
    I believe their 4 zone system is on sale now.  I don't remember
    what they are throwing in for free, but the price was 200.00.
    
    Mike.
    
    
    
    

    Does anyone have any information, opinions, etc on ADT Security
    Systems ?   I got a call from them and a brouchure. The system looks
    good, but, before I go through the salesperson route, I would like
    soome info ?

    Check out the Consumer Notes file (I don't remember where it is and
    right now my primary node is down). For some reason, I think that
    someone wrote about ADT. If I find the note, I'll let you know.
    By the way, I think it was written in the last few months.
    			Cindy
    

    We are now having a house built. The contractor includes an
    alarm in the house, based on wiring doors and using one motion
    detector to protect against window entry. We would like to add
    window coverage to the system. However, as you can see in the list
    below, pricing has become an issue.
    
    Can I get some advice from those of you who have been through
    this - is this the going rate for coverage? Are we trying to
    buy a Cadillac?  
      
       1 basement door         \_____ $1800 (this is our base)
       7 first floor doors     /
       2 motion detectors     /
       3 control panels      /                    
    
    
       5 basement windows        \
       1 basement door            \
       7 1st flr doors             \_____ $2950
       9 1st flr regular windows   /
       7 1st flr casements (wood) /
       1 motion detector         / 
       3 control panels         /
    
                               
     

    If you have inside motion detectors, window switches are a waste
    of money (break window, crawl in through opening, window remains
    shut = no alarm).  One motion detector will not provide adequate
    coverage.  Depending on the layout of the first floor, you will
    require at least two to cover as much area as possible, including:
    the entry from front and rear, and the entry from the cellar door
    onto the first floor.  For the basement, the best option is a
    noise (glass breakage) detector.
    
    If you want to spend money, consider adding fire protection to
    the burglar alarm.  Now's the time to do it, and you may get a
    discount on your homeowner insurance.
    
    pbm
    

    Seven first floor doors?  That's not just a Cadillac, that's a stretch
    limo, at least.
    
    Motion detectors are certainly more cost effective than individual
    sensors, but they may be troublesome if you ever get pets.  Another
    option to consider is to put weight detectors under carpeting,
    especially on steps. 
    
       Gary

    Remember also that most motion detectors, if not all, operate with
    infrared light. In other words, they sense heat changes. If they
    are installed facing in the general direction of a glass window
    or door, the heat of the sun will set them off. A sheer curtain
    won't help block that heat and I am not so sure heavier drapes will,
    either. I talk from expereince. We have those at our house and,
    even when we didn't have a cat roaming around, we couldn't use them
    because they are facing a glass slider and an angle window. 

    There are two kinds of motion detectors.  .-1 describes the infrared
    kind.  There are also ultrasonic ones that work with sound waves (not
    sure how).  Loud noises can kick them off (like thunderstorms). But the
    point is well taken - various kinds of non-burglar phenomena have a
    habit of tripping motion detectors. 
    
    If you want to hook the system to the police or a security service,
    excessive false alarms will probably cause them to stop servicing
    you so it's a real concern.
    
    Until newer technology becomes more reliable, nothing seems to top
    the closed-loop perimeter system with sensors at every possible
    point of entry (including glass-break detectors).  But wiring these
    into an existing house can be nigh-on impossible. 
    
    ( The wireless kind that transmit via the house wiring are also subject
    to false alarms due to spikes, static, etc.   ) 

    We paid $1800 for 3 motion detectors, 4 door switches, 10 window
    switches, a loud horn and 2 control panels; installed.  The auto-phone
    unit belongs to the security company and is included in the monthly
    monitoring and maintenance fee ($20).  As I remember, the motion
    detectors were about $200 each, and the switches were only about
    $30 each (installed).  If we are going to turn the system on while
    someone is in the house, we disable the motion detectors.  For this
    reason I would suggest putting switches on all windows and doors
    reachable from the ground level.  You definitely want to scare away
    anybody who tries to get in while you are sleeping!  As previously
    mentioned, the motion detectors help to get the people who break
    windows to get in while you're not home.
    
    	This was installed after the house was built.  They had no problem
    wiring it up.  They used these loooooooooonng drill bits to drill
    through the window casings into the basement.
    
	The 1800 bucks has definitely been worth the money in terms
    of making my wife feel safe when home alone.

    
    ***** WARNING - amusing anecdote follows
    
    	We had a friend of ours (female) staying at our house, and we
    left for vacation a couple of days before she had to leave.  She
    knew how to turn on and off the alarm, but we had neglected to tell
    her that we always used the "partial" mode (motions off) at night.
    She set the alarm and went to bed.  She was awakened later by a
    sound, and became convinced that someone was in the basement.  She
    went down into the basement to check it out (that took balls, er,
    guts), and walked in front of the motion detector which set the
    alarm off.  This firmly convinced her that someone else WAS in the
    house, so she went upstairs to call the police.  As she was dialing,
    the phone went dead (automatic call to the security company).  Now
    she's convinced that someone has cut the phone lines!!
    
    	Set /Guest=drooling_hysterical_basket_case
    
    I guess the security company called the police, because a little while
    later the rent-a-cop drives up the driveway (we live way off the road).
    She sees him and runs out of the house, but he goes back down the
    driveway to wait for a backup.  Now she's standing all alone in the
    middle of the driveway in her nightgown convinced that the crook is
    gonna get her at any moment! The cops finally did come back (didn't
    find anything), but she didn't sleep much after that. 

    
    Steve
    

    
    
    		We don't have motion detectors but a neighbor we had
    in Marlboro did.  He went on vacation, daughter came to the house
    and inadvertently let in the CAT!  My wife and I came home from
    a trip and went to bed.  At 12 midnight or so there was an awfull
    alarm noise that started up right outside our window - The cat had
    set off the alarm. The scene was that the cat set off the alarm
    and ran under the bed (shivering I'm sure).  After awhile the alarm
    turned itself off (my wife and I were not home the first time this
    happened, this was all before we got homefrom our trip).  Then a
    few hours later, the cat, thinking all was ok came out from under
    the bed again!  Well, I guess this had been going on for a long
    time before we got home and so at midnight when it went off we
    called the police and they told us that it had already been called
    in.  I'm sure that the cat had to have therapy when it was all over.
    	The sound of that alarm still rings in my head and it was scary!
    
    	Gordon Ripley...
    

    	Several manufacturers make dual motion detectors, that is, they
    consist of infared and ultrasonic sensors. If one unit has a "hit"
    it check with the other to make sure the other also has a "hit".
    I installed these in my house, I think they are an Aritech 241 unit.
    	Also most good panels Napco Moose, Ademco can shunt out zones
    from the keypad, no need to have individual switches on windows
    if you are going to leave them open. Check the number of zones you
    get with your system, the more the better. If you have a "swinger",
    a zone that trips in and out, it is much easier to troubleshoot
    if every window in the house is not on one zone. Also most good
    panels have an autoshunt mode. If you want to run out of the house
    and leave a few windows open, it tells you the zones that are open,
    and arms the panel taking those zones out of the loop. You only
    program certain zones to do this. Several panels use a burgular
    zone for a fire loop, so if you want to add smoke detectors later,
    you will need that zone free. I would put the smoke detectors in
    now, or at least run the wires for them. If you need more info,
    send me some mail, I know of a couple of excellent installers/companies
    in the Boston area, who do good work and also provide central
    station coverage.
    
    							Chris

    Most of the Ultrasonic motion sensor use a pair of 40 KHz piezoelectric
    elements, one transmitter and one receiver. They then look for doppler
    shifted frequencies on either side of the fundemental indicating that
    something reflecting sound has moved. 
    
    Usually they have limits on the frequency spectrum they monitor so they
    only will detect up to certain speeds of motion, and there are
    thresholds for the amount of shifted spectrum they will detect. 
    
    /jim

    Does anyone have any experience with the Schlage Keepsafer or Black
    & Decker alarm systems ? I am particularly interested in their passive
    infrared motion detectors. Do they go off with the sun through a
    window or with static electricity ? 

This note has been temporarily write-locked pending approval of the author.

To the author:  This subject is already under discussion in this file, under the
topics listed in the title.  Please look at these notes; you may find that your
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problem that may be under general discussion.  And this moderator has been 
known to make mistakes. :^)  So if after examining these notes, you wish to 
continue the discussion here, send me mail.

Paul [Moderator]

    We have quotes from two alarm installers/monitoring companies
    in the Metro West area. (Warren Security in Marlboro and ADT).
    Do any of you have experience with either of these companies?
    Their quotes are virtually the same, and the equipment seems
    to be also. 
    
    We will be checking with the local fire and police stations
    for general reputation of the two companies. 
    
    Thanks

We have a system which is now 1 year old. It has performed perfectly and as
advertised. One problem we had was promptly fixed (too sensitive infrared
detector). They always showed up on time and did very neat work.

	Security Design Consultants (SDC)
	Weston, Ma. (sorry I don't have the number with me)

I also got bids from ADT, Honeywell, etc. SDC was competative.

							Mark

    I got quotes from both WARREN and ADT and a few others. WARREN and
    ADT's quotes were extremely high compared to all the other quotes
    I got. I'ld look around a bit more. ADT sent out a sales person
    dressed in a 3 piece suit to my house.
    
    I ended up going w/ Control Concepts from Ashland or Framingham.
    They were reasonable. There was another company in Uxbridge area
    called Eagle security that I was impressed w/ and now wish I had
    gone w/. The owner comes to your house to present the units he deals
    w/. He also installs the units himselef w/ 1 or 2 other workers.
    1 day to 1 1/2 day installation. He worked as an installer for ADT
    and subbed for many of the other companies in the Worcester area.
    He knew everyones system inside and out. 
    
    If you would like more info feel free to send me mail or call
    DTN 225-6808
    
    /Jay

    Two companies I highly recommend are Patriot alarm in Canton Ma.
    and Rapco security in No. Easton Ma. Both companies do residential
    work. Patriot leans more toward the commercial side of the business,
    they own their own central station and provide security for many
    large businesses and chains on the east coast. 
    	Rapco deals primarily with residential installations, uses all
    the latest equipment and provides central station monitoring.
    
    	Both companies have been in business for many years and stand
    behind their work.
    
    
    		       Patriot Alarm........821-2325
                       Rapco Security.......238-7536
                       
    
    
    							Chris

    I didn't find any previous note on this topic so I'll bring it up here.
    
    Does anyone have experiences/recommendations on Wireless security
    systems?  After 2 break-ins it's time for something.  I do not want to
    invest in a wired in system because of cost and the fact that I expect
    to move within the next year.
    
    I've seen the Black and Decker, Safe & Sound, Radio Shack and Keepsafer
    kits that vary in cost from $79 to $450 depending on extent of system.
    

    This topic has been discussed in CSOA1::Electro_hobby, note 221 (KP7
    and all that jazz).
    
    Eric

    Thanks for the pointer, I'll check it out.
    

    I need advice on the kind of burglar alarm to install...
    I've had two estimates
    one recommended a wireless system of switches for doors and basement
    windows and infrared sensors
    the other recommended a hard wire sensors in basement and first floor
    switches at front and back doors...
    
    My questions:
    which is most reliable....wired or wireless
    I have a cat and may get a small dog...will they set off false alarms??
    
    any advice as to type...hard wired or not, brands etc much appreciated
    
    Diane Pitochelli
    MRO4
    CURIE::Pitochelli
    
    ps I'm a new user of NOTES
    

This note has been temporarily write-locked pending approval of the author.

To the author:  This subject is already under discussion in this file, under
the topics listed in the title.  Please look at these notes; you may find that
your question is already answered, or you may find a note where your question
would be an appropriate continuation of the discussion.  Note that since
nearly everyone uses NEXT UNSEEN to read notes, your question will get the
same exposure whether it is a response to a two-year-old note or it is its own
new note. These topics were found using the keyword directory (note 1111), and
you may find other notes relating to this subject by examining the directory
yourself. 

We do, however, welcome new notes if they explore a specific aspect of a
problem that may be under general discussion.  And this moderator has been
known to make mistakes. :^)  So if after examining these notes, you wish to
continue the discussion here, send me mail. 

Bruce [Moderator]

    Take it from someone who used to install alarms, unfortunately,
    you get what you pay for. Some of the new wireless professional 
    systems are good for situations where you can not hard wire a 
    contact, but you can not beat a hard wired system for reliability.
    
    							Chris

     AT&T Series 8000 alarm systems were shown at the Home Show in Boston
     recently.  It  appears  to address most of the concerns noted in the
     various notes on security, fire alarm, etc. systems.
     
     Do any of you  have  any  knowledge or experience with AT&T's Series
     8000 systems?  I had  never heard of it before.  I finally found out
     a little more info than is  in the sales brochure.  It's been on the
     market  for  ~2  years.    Distributor  in  MA  is  Choice  Security
     Distributors  (800-345-8826)  who  can tell you the names  of  local
     dealers (Waltham, US Protective Alarms, 617-893-6636;  No.  Reading,
     Shield Security  Systems,  800-698-5554).   Any knowledge/info about
     the above dealers will be greatly appreciated, either posted here or
     via MAIL.
     
     Basically it is a  wireless  system  with the following features:  
        8 channel interface (fire, med'l, environmental, interior, panic,
          hostage, trouble, ?-didn't catch the last one).
        Central Station Monitoring  (~$18-27/month, with different agency
          choices here as well, Century was  mentioned  as well as one on
          Cape Cod who has a "World Net"  of  AT&T  systems...not sure of
          significance).
        Battery Backup.
        Operates at 40MHz.
        "Fully  Supervised"   system-reads  signals,  checking  equipment
          functionality, reporting trouble, checking battery levels.
        Universal Transmitters -  each  with a panic button and run on 9V
          battery.
        Wireless Remote Transmitters-with keypad.
        Keypad Transmitter-normally mounted near primary access door.
        Wireless  Siren/Controller-internal  alarm  and    can   drive  2
          additional external sirens/lights.
        Distress Signal Feature-(hostage) appears to shutdown system, but
          sends silent alarm to central monitoring station.
        Passive  IR  Transmitters-with  window  beneath  it   to  prevent
          sneaking by it, three sets of lenses, ability to restrict field
          of view.
        External Siren.
        Integrated Smoke Detector Transmitter-"...designed  not to go off
          indiscriminately  from  simple  smoke  or    dust  conditions."
          "...designed to respond to real smoke  and  fire situations and
          minimize false alarms."
        Each  wireless transmitter has a tamper-proof feature that alarms
          if anyone opens it up.
        Phone Dialer uses RJ31X jack which "captures" the line...does NOT
          require a dedicated phone line.
        Lights and sirens can be hooked up to alarm via interface to X-10
          system.
        Battery  Backup  is  in series with normal wired power (on the DC
          side of the converter) so power failures shouldn't trip system,
          has    chokes  in  the  power  supply  to    protect    against
          surges/spikes.
        Has a time-delay on entry (40 sec) and exit (1 min).
        Does Not have "housekeeper" code allowing limited access.
        
     At the Home Show I was told that  it would run ~$1K for an installed
     system.  Since it doesn't require a dedicated phone  line,  that's a
     savings  of  $240+/year.   It sounds really good, but I  have  never
     really  researched  any  alarm  systems  in  the  past.  One of  the
     features  I  was looking for is wireless due to the fact I  want  to
     move  within  a  few  years  and  would like to be able to take  the
     majority  of  the system with me for the next house (an alarm system
     may be  a plus on selling a house, but buyers won't pay you an extra
     $1-2K for the house because of an alarm).
     
     Any knowledge or opinions will be appreciated.

    I have some questions on the MOOSE model 1100e alarm system. Anyone
    have any experience I could talk to them about?
    
                                            thanks,
                                              Ken
     
                                              dtn:297-2663
                                              508-467-2663
    

    Has anyone had any experience with the Black & Decker wireless alarm
    system?  This is a system which does NOT use radio transmitters on its
    remote sensors, but uses small audible beepers which are "heard" by a
    central monitoring unit or a relay unit.  The system also communicates
    over the house wiring (X-10?) to things like lamp control modules and
    exterior sirens.

    The system lists for $300 for one central monitor, one relay unit, one
    lamp control, and six entry sensors.  The central monitor will sound an
    85 db alarm, monitor the system, has a panic alarm mode, and an instant
    or delayed alarm mode.  A five number combination turns the system off.
    Additional components such as exterior siren (120db), motion detector,
    autodialer, and a glass breakage detector are available.  Even if the
    central monitor is destroyed, the other units will function
    independently after initially being notified of an intrusion.

    The system is currently on sale at Lechmere for $250, with an
    additional $50 rebate from the mfr.  You can apply the rebate plus $30
    to get the $100 exterior siren for $80.

    Now that the description is out of the way, here are the questions.
    I'm looking to use this system to discourage the average break-in from
    kids or someone looking for quick-fix drug money.  I live in a densely
    packed neighborhood where an exterior siren would attract attention.

    Has  anyone has used this system and had any problem with false alarms
    or non-alarms?  If I don't use this system, I would probably go with a
    wired Radio Shack system, but I don't want the pain of drilling lots of
    holes and running wires through the walls (how hard is this?).

    Any comments about this system would be appreciated.  Remember, I'm not
    trying to stop a professional thief (who probably wouldn't bother with
    my place anyway).

    ---Phil

    Re. 50 (Phil)
    
    We bought the Black and Decker wireless system about a year and
    a half ago.  We live in a fairly rural area in Kingston, NH and
    got the system more for "peace of mind" rather than as a response
    to a particular problem.  I looked at three systems (ADT, Shlage,
    and B&D), and went with the B&D as the ADT was much more expensive
    (can't have DIY installation) and the Shlage seemed to be a little
    "cheap".
    
    We had the misfortune of buying the system when it considerably
    more expensive than it is now.  We paid something like $500 for
    it then, and I found it on sale for $400 at Sears within 6 months
    of buying it, and I even recently saw it on sale at Service Merchandise
    for $200! (I guess it was the same deal that you mentioned)
    
    It was a breeze to install, and we've had very few problems with
    it.  Only had one false alarm, and that was due to my improper 
    installation of one of the sensors.  It's very easy to use, and
    the alarm is definitely audible.  We also have the 120 db siren
    which I still haven't put up yet, so I can imagine the noise when
    that thing goes off!  We also had one problem recently which B&D
    fixed easily on the phone-the signal relay was apparently affected
    by a power surge, so we had to reset the system.  
    
    Drawbacks:  the entry sensors are not that attractive, and the entire
    system doesn't really fit in with the aesthetics of the house (if
    there is any in a house where we haven't gotten around to putting
    up curtains in all of the windows :^)).  The glass sensors also
    aren't worth much at all.  They don't respond to sharp taps on the
    glass-haven't tried to see if they sense a broken pane yet!
    
    Summary:  The system does what it claims to, and it fits our needs
    for peace-of-mind.  Would I buy another one?  For $500, probably
    not.  For $200, definitely.  
    
    I totally agree with something that someone else wrote earlier:
    If someone wants to get into your house, he will.  The main thing
    that a home security system does is make it a little less easy.
    
    Feel free to contact me if you have any specific questions that
    I haven't answered.
    
    Greg B.

   RE: .51 (Greg)

    Thanks for the reply.  It sounds like you have had good luck with this
    system.  Too bad it was more expensive when you bought it, but you got
    an extra year and a half of protection/peace of mind from it.

    I agree that the entry sensors can be unattractive.  Fortunately, they
    are almost the same color as my walls (off white).  The system also
    includes a remote sensor which can be hooked to the entry sensor unit.
    this allows you to set the transmitter back from the door, a little
    more out of the way.  The remote sensor (a reed switch) and the magnet
    can be taken out of their housings and fit between the door and the
    frame if you have a little bit of space.  You can also use the remote
    sensor to keep the transmitter from being muffled behind curtains.

    ---Phil

    I couldn't find a topic called temperature alarms so i guess this
    note will have to do.
    
    I have a mobile home in vermont, and i am looking for a device that
    would sense a preset temperature, 45 degrees or so, and activate
    a telephone auto dialer that would play a message that the temperature
    was getting low.  I checked with radio shack and they used to have
    one, but it didn't sell well and was discontinued.  I have seen
    devices that sense low temperatures and flash lights on and off,
    but they won't do much good when you are 70 miles away.  Anyone
    help in locating will be appreciated.
    
    thanks,
    mike
    
    

    
    This is just an idea, and possibly not well thought out.
    
    Why not get a 'normal' thermostat and use the low temp setting to turn on
    a relay. The relay to be allowing 110 volts to some kind of dialer.
    
    Something of a hack, but ought to work.

    
    I have something like what you want, this weekend I'll enter the name
    & address of the company for you (if they're still in business). It's
    not a "Rat Shack" brand, I bought it 2nd hand, but it does exactly what
    you want (no, I won't sell you mine... :^) :^) ).
    
    Fred

    Heathkit sells this (Re: .23 -- temperature alarm/dialer).
    800-44HEATH for catalog...
    
    Fred

Hello,

My wife and I just purchased an older home with a ADT Fire/Security
system installed.

I talked to an ADT salesman about getting the system "on-line".

He told me it would cost $125 to hook up the system and $264 per month
for the monitoring service!!

That seems like a lot of money per month for this service.  Can anyone
tell me what they are paying?  Perhaps I didn't hear it correctly.


Thanks,
       Bob

    Sounds like that's the yearly charge. 
    
    Our system is $20/month from Westec.
    
    Side note: When I evaluated 4 vendors for the security system, the
    prices ranged from $18 to $24 per month. ADT was one of them but
    don't recall which one it was. but I think they were the highest.
    

    We have a Honeywell system for $26.oo/month
     
    Make sure you get a good reliable system and not a pain in the ...
    
     John
    

Since reading the replies to my initial question, I called back the
saleman from ADT Security and clarified that the price of $264 was indeed
the YEARLY cost not the monthly cost ($264 per year works out to be $22
per month).

That does sound more reasonable.

Since I had NO idea what this type of service costs, I believed what
I heard.

But, thanks to this NOTES file I was able to get some good, accurate
information.


THANKS for all the replies,
			    Bob

    I replaced the GFCI and everything is now working fine.  I found the
    exact unit on sale at Builder's Square under $7.50.  I opened the old
    one to find out what was wrong.  The contact point for the neutral was
    sligtly pitted. 
    
    Thanks,
    - Vikas

    Without going nuts digging thru all the electrical-outlet notes, this
    seems to be as good a place as any to post this question...
    
    I need some advice on how to *kill* an electrical outlet...actually, we
    now want to tile a section of one wall where the wood stove will be.
    However, this section of wall contains two electrical outlets. We've
    decided to tile over these outlets rather than around them since (a) we
    think they'll look funny poking out of the tile, and  (b) there are
    other outlets within a reasonable distance from this section of wall.
    Therefore, I want to 'deactivate' these two outlets, and need some
    advice/suggestions/opinions  on how to proceed. Should I:
    
    	(1) simply tuck the outlets into the boxes and cover them with
    	the tile?
    
    	(2) remove the outlets, do something with the wiring (cap them
    	with wire nuts? in pairs? each by itself?), and then cover with
    	tile?
    
    	(3) Any other ideas?
    
    As always, thanks in advance...
    
    Freddie

    re: .20
    Sorry, according to the NEC what you are proposing is illegal.  All
    junction boxes must be permanently accessible, i.e. you can't bury
    a box in a wall with no way to get at it.
    

    Kill power to the line, then...
    
    If they are the last outlets in the line, 
    
    	remove the outlets and pull the wiring back "up the line" to the
        last "hot" outlet.  Remove the wire and terminate the run there.
    
    If they are in the middle of a run,
	
    	remove the outlets and pull the wiring back "up the line" to the	
        last "hot outlet" and "down the line" to the next outlet.  Remove 
    	those runs and replace with a single run.
    
    Do not leave a live box in the wall.  Pity the poor soul 20 years from
    now who cuts into that sheetrock thinking it is OK only to have the saw
    blade cut through a live wire going to a hidden box.  You will not have
    made a friend.
    
    Dave
    	
    

You can buy porcelain outlet plates, that might look fine on tile.
If you're interested, I'll look out one of the various catalogs I've
seen them advertised in.  

Or, you might consider if you want an outlet (or at least a cover plate)
on the *other* side of that wall...

	Enjoy,
	Larry

    re: .22
    Good thoughts, and I doubt that one has to physically remove the wire.
    That would be nice, so the next person who tears the wall apart isn't
    confused by wiring that isn't connected to anything, but I suspect all 
    one really needs to do is find the source for those outlets and
    disconnect there.  
    The blank porcelin cover plate sounds even easier; doesn't Renovator's
    Supply carry those?
    

re .22:

>    Do not leave a live box in the wall.  Pity the poor soul 20 years from
>    now who cuts into that sheetrock thinking it is OK only to have the saw
>    blade cut through a live wire going to a hidden box.  You will not have
>    made a friend.

What difference does it make if there's a box or not?  If he blithely cuts
into the wall, he's going to hit the wire anyway.

>>    Do not leave a live box in the wall.  Pity the poor soul 20 years from
>>    now who cuts into that sheetrock thinking it is OK only to have the saw
>>    blade cut through a live wire going to a hidden box.  You will not have
>>    made a friend.
>
>What difference does it make if there's a box or not?  If he blithely cuts
>into the wall, he's going to hit the wire anyway.
      
      It  might  be  a bit easier to cut into a junction box than into a
      NMB cable, but I don't think thats the real problem that the  code
      is addressing.
      
      The  real  world  fact is that even the best made connections in a
      junction box are a lot more likely to go bad than a random spot in
      the  middle of a cable run.  If the box is hidden it can re really
      difficult to find it.   It  is  also  likely  that  it  will  take
      dangerously  longer  to realize that there is a fire if its hidden
      behind the sheetrock.

The reason I was told that all eletrical boxes need to be accessable is that
every once and a while even the best of us will make a bad connection (most
likly due to an inferior wire nut or device) but if for some reason that
connection started to develop an arc or came off totally, there would be no way
to find the problem.  In the case of an arc developing, there is a fire hazard.

Don't hide them.  Kill the line that connects them to the power and make sure
that line can not be hooked up again (cut/pull, do SOMETHING to make sure of
this).

I don't thik having wires that go no-where is against the code, it just
confuses the person that rips the wall out 15 years down the road.

bjm

    I recently spoke with an installer (Chris Yacino from Eaglestar
    Security out of Douglas, MA) who said he swithced from using NAPCO
    equipment to using DSC Security (Made in Canada) equipment because
    NAPCO wasn't keeping up with the technology advances being made in the
    security system industry.  Has anyone had any experience with DSC
    and/or Chris?  Any info. would be greatly appreciated!  Thanks.
    
    							-SD-

    Hi,
    
    We built a house last year and had rough wiring done for an alarm
    system.  We just recently (last month) had the finish work done
    since there were several break-ins on the street.
    
    Our original installer was SafeGuard from Worcester, Eaglestar 
    bought SafeGuard and did the finish work.
    
    The equipment is excellent.  I know is works very well since it's
    trapped us a few times we were careless.  the doors are all wired
    and there are several motion detectors - cellar and two on first floor.
    We decided not to do the windows due to cost per, and motions can cover
    them all for a lot less.
    
    Anyway, Chris is the kind of person that you read about in those 
    how 'to treat customer' books. He makes you feel like your his most
    important customer.  I called SafeGuard to finish the work
    Chris called me back several times to be sure the date and times
    were going to be ok.  Even called the night before to double check.
    He was very nice and cleaned up after the job was done.
    He showed my wife how to use the system while I was at work.  I called
    him about a few things she didn't remember and he drove an hour
    on a Saturday to give me the training himself.  
    He was to the minute on time also.
    
    Now if all the contractors were as efficient and freindly as this guy,
    building a house would be a great experience and not the night-mare
    most of us tend to experience.
    
    Tell him I said 'hello'.  

   I was recently quoted $16 and $16.50/month by two different firms.
   (in greater Lawrence/Andover area)
   
   Compared to the previous notes, this is a very good deal.
   Are prices down, or is just cheaper out-this-way?
   
   	Dave.

    Considering that it's Lawrence, it's probably economies of scale.
    
    PBM

[just a quick FYI since this topic came back to the unseen list]

I live in a town just outside of Worcester (Charlton).  Our home monitoring
is from a Worcester based company.  I was talking to them the other day
about a false alarm (wind blew open a window not properly closed), and
he was telling me that the Police are starting to charge for false alarms
that they have to respond to.  Something like:
	1st one  - free
	2cd, 3rd - $25
	4th, 5th - $50
	6th, up  - $100

I don't recall if these were yearly, monthly, or lifetime counts.  Although 
my town hasn't instituted these yet, he warned that it was probably coming 
soon.

Dan

    Re .6
    
    This is a pretty common practice today.  My town requires a no-fee
    permit issued by the police department, just so they'll know that
    the system is there and who to call, and you're allowed one "free"
    false alarm per year.  More than that costs you $25 each.
    
    PBM
    

    What are the advantages of having some company "monitor" your home vs.
    having a decent "stand-alone" alarm system?  Several of my neighbors
    have their homes monitored by a company in Salem, NH (we live in
    Haverhill, MA) and I just cannot make sense of this, let alone
    justifying the monthly fee.  I mean, someone tries to break in,
    alarm/siren goes off, intruder takes off, neighbors hear siren and call
    the police.  What more will a monitoring company offer that's worth
    paying them?
    
    I suppose if your house is on 5 acres and isolated from other houses,
    it would be justifiable, but in a neighborhood like mine, 70 homes each
    on 1/5th acre lots, I don't see the need.  Or, am I overlooking
    something?
    
    Thanks,
    John
    

    Re .8
    
    There's no guarantee that your neighbors will either (1) be at home,
    awake, and alert when the break-in takes place, or (2) will call the
    police if they hear the siren.  Secondly, if you plan an intrusion
    alarm, the additional cost for a fire alarm is relatively small;
    a monitored fire alarm will provide warning long before flames are
    visible and noticed.
    
    Realize that nothing will prevent professionals from breaking into
    your home if they're determined to do so.  However, although they
    can cut the 'phone line, they can't shut off the siren from the
    outside, therefore you need both monitoring and a local noisemaker.
    Your objective is, quite frankly, to encourage the amateur vandals
    to move on to the nearest house that doesn't have a warning sticker
    on the door.
    
    PBM
    

   RE: Towns charging for False Alarms
   
   There was an article about this in the Boston Globe about a month ago.
   (might have been the NorthWest weekly section)
   
   Of course, towns are free to set their own policies, so you should ask
   your local Police department.  Some PDs won't take calls at all.  The
   article was basically warning of the problems that PDs have with the
   volume of false calls and how they would attempt to make people more
   accountable.  Some towns may charge you direct, or charge the Monitoring
   service.  You can bet that the service will get back to you.
   
   (further discussion of other issues should probably be in the main
   Burglar alarm topic #1314)
   
   	Dave.

In addition to break-ins and fire, our alarm system has a special
"ambush" mode.  If someone follows you to your door and tells you to open
the door and disable the alarm, you enter a special ambush code that
makes the alarm look like it's been disabled, but it still notifies the
monitoring company...

And don't forget the (less tangible) feeling of safety.  Having it 
monitored gives my wife a better feeling of safety while I'm away on
business...

Dan

    Our alarm has the "ambush" feature as well as a "panic" feature.  If
    you're in the house (without the alarm on) and someone is breaking in 
    you can push a couple of buttons which turns on the siren and notifies
    the monitor company to call the police immediately.  There is also a
    "panic" mode for fire as well.  Along with the sense of security, most
    insurance companies will give you a discount on your homeowners policy
    if you have a monitored system.
    
    Ed

    The last few replies are exactly what I was looking for.  These are
    the kinds of features and reasons for monitoring companies that I was
    unaware of.  Thanks.
    
    John
    

   Since we've fallen into discussing monitoring features....
   
   My system has a three two-key emergency combinations: Police, Fire,
   and Medical, as well as the "Duress" password option. (which disarms the 
   system but makes a call silently)
   
   The system has the option to make the Police combo silent too.
   (eg: no local siren noise)
   
   The way that all these things work, is that the monitoring company
   gets the call with a "reason code" attached.  Then they do the right
   thing.
   
   My system, at least, cannot just call anyone by voice.  The system
   knows 4 popular digital protocols (think of them as specialized modem 
   encodings).  You arrange with the monitoring company to select one.
   Your account number needs to be programmed into your system so they
   know who is calling.
   
   	Dave.
   
   btw: this is a Moose Systems Z1100  which the previous owner left me
   the installer's manual.

When I was looking at systems for my home in Colorado Springs, I was told
the following by a company trying to sell me a monitoring service:

	Due to the number of false alarms, the Colorado Springs police
	department will only respond to alarms forwarded through a monitoring
	company.  The monitoring company first telephones the site of the
	alarm to see if it was a false alarm.  They have a password system
	so that you can indicate you are in trouble/hostage situation.

Thus, the main function of the monitoring company is to act as a first-pass
filter to reduce the load on police.

    I've decided I'm going to install a (wired) alarm system in my house. 
    I would like to see if I can profit from anyone else's experiences in
    the matter of actually installing the sensors.   

    I plan to install sensors on all windows and (outside) doors.  
    However, the more I look at my windows, the less sure I am about the
    best way to try to run the wires.     I don't want to have a lot of
    wires visible around my windows (I don't care how small the wire is, it
    still looks amateurish...).  Howvever, I am mystified when I try to
    figure out how to run the wires from the window sensors into the wall
    and to the control center.  

    Does anyone have any general suggestions (or anecdotal information) for
    running sensor wires in existing walls without killing myself?  

    /doug

    
    
    well, you can always cut a small grove into your
    sheetrock down to the baseboard.  Run the wire in
    there and touch it up with mud and paint....
    
    JD

    A much cheaper and less time consuming solution would be to
    install area motion detectors instead of sensors on each of the
    windows.  I have a center entry colonial and with two motion
    detectors can monitor most of the down stairs of the house.  Your
    case may vary but I would think that a few motion detectors
    would be easier to install then many window sensors.  The only
    thing to be aware of is that motion detectors are not a good
    solution if you have pets that wonder the house when you are
    gone or asleep.

    Frank

>    The only
>    thing to be aware of is that motion detectors are not a good
>    solution if you have pets that wonder the house when you are
>    gone or asleep.

    Bingo.  We have cats that would inevitably set off motion detectors.  

    Believe me, I have studied this for quite some time and spoken to a lot
    of people.   I had seriously hoped to be able to get away with just
    installing a few motion detectors, but I have heard more than enough
    tales of false alarms and how straightforward it is to defeat motion
    detectors to convince me that wired sensors are my design center.

    So, does anyone out there, have any hard-won wiring hints that they'd
    care to share?

    /doug

Have you looked into the alarm systems that use battery-powered sensors? The
sensor has an RF or ultrasonic transmitter.  Each sensor periodically
transmits its status, which permits detection of dead batteries.

I've seen these systems displayed at home shows.

    From personal experience having installed NUMEROUS (25+) alarm system in 
    both my own house and those of friends, it is far simpler, quicker, and 
    more professional to use a looooonnnnnngggggg drill. What I did was get 
    a 8' piece of drill rod and then had a 3/8 drill bit brazed onto the 
    end of the drill rod. Total cost was less than $20. 
    
    
    Near the point of the drill bit I drilled a 1/4" hole which allowes for
    feeding the wires at the same time as you remove the bit. 
    
    Plane and simple works every time.  
    
    Ken

    Motion detectors can be a problem, not only with pets, but with
    children or yourself getting up in the night.  Our system has both
    door and window sensors and a motion detector which can be shunted
    when you're at home.  This seems to work well for me.
    
    Phil

Thanks to all for suggestions about wireless solutions, but I have considered
and discarded wireless designs. 

Now for those who have installed wired systems, how did you go about running
the wires in the walls?  

/doug

    
    If you are only running it down to the baseboard, how about using flat
    ribbon cable for that short run & join to a twisted pair for the run
    behind the baseboard?  You could paint over the ribbon cable or even
    wallpaper over it.   If you want to chase it in, it's simply a matter
    of removing a few mm of the surface.
    
    Colin
    
    
    

    
    Do you have a single fam. home, multi level, 3 fam. etc.....?
    
    All cables to feed wall mounted devices should be snaked into the wall.
    Drill a 1" hole where you are going to mount the device, and (if you
    can) drill up into the wall from the basement. Run the snake from the
    basement to the hole. Pull the basement snake out of the wall w/ a tool
    or 2nd snake. For door magnets, drill into the door jamb, and drill up
    from the basement as described for walls. OPtion #2 for wall munted
    devices (motion detectors). Run a 1/2 dozen (or required #) of cables
    frm basement, through a conduit in the back of a closet (1/2" emt),
    distribute the cables in the attic, and down through the ceiling, 
    however, you should drill from the ceilig up, to locate holes.
    
    For more specific answers , you need to ask more specific questions.
    
    Dont forget you can run cable under rugs, mouldings, along/behind door
    frames, through cabinets, closets etc.....
    
    Stay away from painting over ribbon cable, and gouging sheetrock,
    then replastering. Worst case, get some lo profile surface raceway
    at any electrical supplier.
    
    questions ?
    

    re -.1 Thanks for the specific feedback.  Here's more detail and a few
    more questions:

    My house is a single-family split entry with a finished basement. The
    finished basement is going to make pulling wires through the basement
    just about impossible.  I've about resigned myself to drilling down
    from the attic for all of the upstairs sensors and just 'punting' for
    each of the sensors downstairs... 

    Arming a door with sidelights ?
    -------------------------------
    On my front door I don't think I can use the typical 'drill in' sensors
    that you put into the jamb and door.   The door has sidelights right
    next to the jamb and that makes running wires a bit of a problem.   I
    *might* be able to put some sort of sensor into the threshold, but I
    feel a little uneasy about that (seems like the sensor would get a lot
    of abuse being down there...)   I'm thinking I may have to just mount
    one of those surface mount reed switch sensors (like a window sensor)
    at the top of the door...

    Minimizing sheetrock repair ?
    -----------------------------
    How do you minimize the 'sheetrock abuse' when you drill holes for
    window sensors? Do you pull off the molding on the side of the window,
    drill, snake, install then replace the molding over the wire?

    How to arm windows at either full-close or half-closed position ?
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    I'm also thinking about installing a 'double-sensor' system on some of
    my windows so I can either have them completely closed or leave them
    1/2 open in the summer for ventilation and still have the windows
    'armed' (i.e. when they are opened further, the sensor will trip).  
    Has anyone done this sort of thing and is there a cheaper way to do it
    beyond installing 2 sensors? 



    Thanks for the input.
    /doug

    I would strongly advise running any kind of wire under a rug or
    carpeting. It is too easy for the wire to get worn/frayed without you
    knowing it and start a fire.

    Re -.1 
    
    >I would strongly advise running any.........
    
    I think you meant "I would strongly advise _NOT_ run any....."
    
    re-.2
    
    Anyway, what type of ceiling do you have in the basement, is it a drop
    ceiling....? Most ceilings and walls are accessible, start thinking in
    more generic terms w/ regard to the structure and framing ofthe house.
    
    As far as minimizing sheetrock damage, make sure the pilot hole you
    drill (at the device) can be covered w/ the device itself, and that you
    do not initially drill into a stud (pick your favorite stud location
    method). Also a sheet of newspaper below the work area greatly
    minimizes clean up time.......
    
    Windows:
    
    You can use the 2 magnet method. 1 sensor on the frame, and 2 magnets
    on the window. 1 for the closed position, and 1 for partway open.
    You want to be sure the you have snug windows ! There is now a 
    combination sensor for windows, it is the sonic detector (reacts to 
    breaking glass) and has the magnetized switch for the application
    you described. The frawback is you need 4 wires, 2 switched, 2 power. 
    
    Doors, 
    
    you do not have to put a "depression switch" for the doors (some thing
    in the door janb or threshold, that when depressed, opens or closes a
    switch). You can put a "in jamb" magnet setup. A cylindrical magnet is
    put into the door itself (use a little wood glue), and the wired 
    switch piece goes anywhere around the frame , top/bottom/sides (and it
    must line up w/ the magnet 8^} ). Thay way you do not have to worry 
    about wear and tear.

>    Anyway, what type of ceiling do you have in the basement, is it a drop
>    ceiling....? Most ceilings and walls are accessible, start thinking in

If only it *were* a drop ceiling...  It's a regular sheetrock ceiling, screwed
to the joists.  There's no way to get in without making a mess of the basement
ceiling...  It may be unavoidable, though....

    
>    You can use the 2 magnet method. 1 sensor on the frame, and 2 magnets
>    on the window. 1 for the closed position, and 1 for partway open.

That's actually what I meant when I  said "2 sensors".  Anyway, you still have
to actually buy two complete sensor units, even though you're only using 1.5,
right?  Or can you pick up the magnets, separately?  If so then great.

re: doors:
>    switch). You can put a "in jamb" magnet setup. A cylindrical magnet is
>    put into the door itself (use a little wood glue), and the wired 
>    switch piece goes anywhere around the frame , top/bottom/sides (and it
>    must line up w/ the magnet 8^} ). Thay way you do not have to worry 
>    about wear and tear.

That's exactly what I want to put in, but the front door is steel clad and the
jamb (where you'd drill the sensor piece into) directly abuts a sidelight
panel.  This panel *not* wood and you cannot drill a channel through it
without ruining it.   If the entry just butted into a wall, it'd be
straightforward.

thanks anyway.  
(This job is looking uglier and uglier all the time....)
/doug

    For the past couple of months we've been considering having a security
    system installed.  A major concern of ours is having motion detectors
    since we have 2 cats.  When we are away the cats are locked in the
    basement, but when we are home they have free roam.  I had Bill, from B
    & J Custom Alarms, check out our place and he said that if the sensors
    are placed correctly then the cats won't set them off.  Is this true?

    He quoted us ~ $1400 for the setup below.  We own a 3-story townhouse.

	1  Panel - MA-2600, 16 zones
	2  Keypads
	2  Sirens 
	2  Motions - Basement, main floor
	3  Doors - Basement, main entrance, door from basement to main floor
	2  Windows - Basement

    Any comments on the quote?  He owns the monitoring station and it's
    $15/month.
    
    Let's say we decide not to go with motion detectors, does it make sense
    to spend the money on a security system comprised of only door/window
    switches?  If we decided not to go with sensors I would have 6 more
    windows on the main floor wired instead.
    
    ...Rania

    re: sensors and cats
    
    While in Florida staying with friends in August, I learned a
    bit about their security system.  They have a full system with
    motion sensors and the door/window detectors.  However, their
    system allows them to selectively set the motion detectors
    off and on at will, while leaving the other sensors functioning.
    This way, they leave the motion sensors on while they're not
    at home, and turn them off while they are at home so the
    dogs/cats/themselves won't set them off - a good compromise
    from what I observed.  Can't comment on the price, however.
    
    just my $.02
    
    andy
    

    
    	Bill installed our system back in Feb.  He is very much a
    	perfectionist when it comes to the installation.  I asked 
    	him the same question about small pets... got the same answer.
    	I don't usually have any pets around so I didn't have him
    	set up the motion sensors that way.  The system he uses will
    	allow you to do exactly as the last reply stated.... turn off
    	the sensors (or any particular door/window if you want).  We
    	arm just the doors and windows quite often... it's a very handy
    	feature.
    
    	Our alarm has been tripped (by us or other family members) a
    	couple of times and they were on the phone to us within a 
    	minute or two.  The last time was by a family member who didn't
    	remember their code.... Joan (from B&J) was really tough to 
    	convince that it was ok and not call the police.
    
    	I am very happy with the system and would highly recommend them
    	to anyone.  Their monthly fee is about the best deal around.
    	If you have him do the work... tell him I said Hi.
    
    	Ed Simpson

    Thanks for the replies.
    
    I know I can turn off the motion detectors and leave the window/doors
    alarmed.  I'm just not sure it's worth installing the motions if I
    rarely use them, (turning them off so that the cats don't accidentally
    trip them).
    
    I agree, Bill does seem to know the alarm business.  I also find it
    hard to believe he would install motions if they don't work with pets. 
    After all, he owns the station and wouldn't want false alarms set off
    by pets!  
    
    So does anyone else out there have any experience with pets and motion
    detectors?  I need some more information to pass on to my husband.
    
    ...Rania

    
    Not exactly pets.  My experience of alarm systems is as a keyholder
    for bank offices.  When you get hauled out of a warm bed at 3:00AM,
    it tends to make you interested in the technology!  Motion detectors
    are usually the component causing false alarms.  In one office, they
    went off at least twice a month until we tracked the problem - Monstera
    plants (Swiss Cheese) moving in the draught from an air duct.
    
    One engineer told me that mice, moving curtains or automatic fans
    can sometimes set them off, as can brownouts & spikes.
    
    Mice definitely won't be a problem for you, but does your cat climb
    the curtains?  ;-)
    
    Regrds,
    
    Colin

    I think the trick with motion sensors and pets, is to aim the sensors
    high enough to ignore a cat/dog on the floor, but catch a standing human.
    It probably depends mostly on the design of the sensor to have a height
    horizon.
    
    Now, cats climbing curtains and furniture will quickly negate this
    benefit.  And as he said, watch out for the affects of "wind" or FHA.
    Depending on the design of the sensor, some can detect things moving
    _outside_ a window.  The aim should be planned to avoid such views.
    
    
    My house (recently purchased) has a security system with just door and
    window detectors.  I consider it fairly secure.   You have to think
    about what it is that additional motion sensors would detect that 
    door detectors would not.
    
    The only feature I see is covering large glass doors or areas you
    cannot otherwise get.  In my house the inconvience may be such that
    if I put in some motion sensors, I would probably only arm them when
    out-of-town.
    
    	Dave.

>							You have to think
>    about what it is that additional motion sensors would detect that 
>    door detectors would not.
>    
>    The only feature I see is covering large glass doors or areas you
>    cannot otherwise get.

The house we recently bought, in addition to doors and windows and a
motion decector, it has 3 'sound detectors'.  Basically it detects the 
high pitched sound of breaking glass.  Of course, glass can be carefully 
cut open so as not to make any noise...  I guess that's what the motion
detector is for...  It's a matter of what you consider secure...

The lady we bought the house from had the system put in about 4 years
ago - I think she said it cost about $1500-1700.

Dan

    
    I don't have an alarm system (unless two dogs count) but I saw on
    the news a warning to alarm owners about getting "call answering"
    which is the same as voice mail. Systems that place a call to the
    Police Dept. can get lunched if you have it installed.
    Most systems require a constant dial tone to place a call. When a
    message is left you get the pulsating dial tone and it can screw up
    your alarm system. They mentioned that it could be a costly repair,
    anyone catch exactly what happens to the system ??
    They also mentioned that the phone company so far, issues no warnings
    of this to potential buyers.
    
    Should make for interesting conversation....
    
    Randy
    

    Well, I now have quotes from 3 companies.  Two of the three use Napco
    while the third uses FBI.  Does anyone know if these two manufacturers
    are comparable?
    
    ...Rania
    

    Rania,
    
    Napco and FBI are both major suppliers of Burglar alarm equipment. 
    I've owned two houses.  The first house had a Napco system and I just
    had a FBI system installed in my present house.  Both system worked
    well but, I find that the FBI system is easier to operate.  We have had
    the FBI system ~6 weeks and have yet to have anybody (myself, my wife
    and 2 kids (11 and 14)). cause a 'false' alarm.  I think you will be
    happy with either manufacturer equipment.
    
    Jim O'

Any opinions on so-called volumetric alarm systems, which are activated by
sudden changes in air pressure (or subsonics resulting from them) 
caused by doors or windows opening quickly?  

The main advantage seems to be essentially no installation effort to
get a perimeter alarm system.  The second advantage (for the system we saw) 
was an outside alarm with its own battery backup, so that the exterior 
alarm would sound if the wires were cut or the interior unit destroyed.

The likely disadvantages seem to be possible false alarms or possible 
failure to detect a break-in (especially during summer when upstairs 
windows may be open all the way).  I have no way of gauging this, so this 
is the fundamental question I'm asking.

The system we saw was made by Quorum International, Limited, which we were 
told is a subsidiary of American Electronics.

   Gary

(Cross posted to ElectroHobby)

We've successfully installed our alarm system, and it even worked
first time.  I have two questions and a comment:

Question:  The sensors appear to have aluminum wires (stranded).  We've
used 16 gauge stranded copper for the runs, and soldered them together.
How long should we expect a Cu/Al solder joint, carrying low voltage
and current to last (or was there something better for us to use)? 
The usual Cu/Al fire concerns shouldn't be an issue, because this is
a low voltage circuit.

Second question:  What should be used to insulate the solder joints?  Wire
nuts?  Heat-shrink tubing? Electric tape (gasp -- but perhaps it's ok
for a low voltage application; I don't know).

Comment:  For a single loop run to several doors/windows, where you send 
one wire to door A, then another wire from door A to door B, continuing 
until you get back to the panel, there doesn't seem to be much difference 
between a vanilla (Class B) closed loop system (circuit normally closed) 
and a supervised (Class A) closed loop system (a resistor wired in to the 
circut).  Shorting around the resistor will set off the alarm, but the 
resistor is only at one point in the circuit.  Shorting around a closed 
loop switch can't set it off.  I suppose this is tautological.

To get the real benefit of a system that can detect both shorts and open 
circuits, you need to run at least two wires through the entire loop.
Then you can randomly put closed loop sensors into one or the other wires,
or open loop sensors across them.  This increases the odds significantly
in your favor.  [I recall seeing a similar note somewhere on this, 
suggesting running four conductor cable; I now have a better understanding
of that note.]

   Gary

    Try soldering one of the "aluminum" wires; you may discover
    it's tinned copper, in which case all your Cu/Al concerns
    disappear.

    
      If you soldered the wires together easily, it's most likely tinned
    copper, as Steve suggested. Even if it is Aluminum, you will never have
    a fire problem with that type of circuit. The reason its a problem with
    120V house wiring is that the joint (never soldered) deteriorates and
    the current through it causes enough heat to start adjacent materials
    on fire)
    
      I'd use heat shrink to cover the soldered connections - if you can
    still get it on. If not, there is a brush-on rubber coating that  seals
    very nicely. You might try that. You can't use either for 120V wiring,
    but for your security system, its just fine.
    
    				Kenny

    If you soldered it without resorting to exotic fluxes, it wasn't
    aluminum. Or it's a bad joint 8-(
    
    ...tom

    RE: resistor loop circuits
    
    This has confused me too, but I haven't thought about it much recently.
    
    Perhaps if the resistor wasn't on the panel, but at the remote end of
    the run, any attempt to short the run would drop it out.
    
    Are there any books out there on the "theory" and design of alarm
    loops?
    
    	Dave.

Sorry for the delay, but we just got back from vacation.

I guess it must be tinned copper, since the joints seem fine -- everthing
worked the first time.  Heat-shrink tubing worked as the insulator,
since all of the joints were done as T's, and not inline (i.e. twisted
together the way you would if you were using WireNuts, but soldered
and then covered with heat-shrink).

re: .84

What you're saying is theoretically correct, but ignores the
pragmatics or topology of running wires.  I've tested our system, and yes, 
if you short around the resistor, the alarm will be triggered.  

However, the wiring topology doesn't necessarily present two wires, one on 
either side of the resistor at the end of the run.  Consider the following,
where you run a single wire from the alarm box to door 1, another wire
from door 1 to door 2, and another wire from door 2 directly back
to the alarm:

			    door 1(nc)	             door 2
		| ______________/ _____________________/ (nc)
	Alarm   |					\
		|					/
		|					\ resistor
		| ______________________________________/

With single wires (cheaper, possibly easier), then shorting around
door 2 (which has both the switch and the end-of-line resistor) will
trigger the alarm.  Shorting around door 1 won't trigger the alarm.

Running dual wires is more secure -- two wires to door 1, then two wires to
door 2 gets the desired effect, provided you hide the vulnerable
points.  The two sides of a closed-loop switch are always vulnerable,
but if you can't easily tell which two of the four wires represent
those two points, then the odds are in favor of triggering the alarm.
This will frequently take more wire; it could even push the voltage
drop to the point that you need a heavier gauge wire, 

We only have one case where this is a problem, and I intend to fix
that case.  

   Gary

    A friend is looking for a device like the Whole Home Sentry discussed
    in this note:
    
    	phone answering machine with various peripherals to tell
        temperature, alarm, detect wetness and report it all to him
    
    Does anyone have any recent information.  He's just bought a house on
    the Cape and he's worried about it.
    

I was surprised that the "keywords" didn't have either "alarm" or "burglar".

It was only with a "title search" that I was able to find alarm info in
this file.

My house was robbed (lost my computer system and violin amongst other things)
last Tuesday.  It feels scary just to go home now, jitters and fears that
someone might be there.

So, I'm thinking about an alarm (or else not restocking the house!)

Off I go to the other note that has 85 replies ... (1314)

My house was robbed last Tuesday, not a pleasant experience I can tell you.
The worst is the feeling of uneasiness every time I go home now.

So I'm thinking about what sort of things to install.

This particular burglary was they managed to open the window lock latch
which I must not have turned COMPLETELY.  They slipped a nife between
the two windows (after slitting screen to reach in and slide it up) and
turned the latch.

They stole my violin, entire computer system with printer and modem, vcr,
clock radio.

The questions that I have:

o	For my several first-floor windows, has anyone had any experience
	with window bars ?  Such would allow me to leave windows open for
	air in summer.  Are such things practical ?

o	I'm thinking about those flood lights that automatically turn on
	with motion.  Do security companies install these ?  ('m too lazy
	to do it myself, let alone fix typos )

o	if I buy an alarm system, do I need a dedicated phone line ?  If not,
	what about the voicemail stutter dial tone confusion ?
	Is the verdict in on that one yet ?

o	If I do get an alarm system, what if burglar cuts phone line.  (Mine
	comes into house at arm's reach level !)

o	There was some discussion about summer heat causing false alarms
	with motion detector alarms, and thunder storm causing false alarms
	with sonar ones, and that double detectors were the way to go.  Is
	that really still the way to go ?

o	What's a good alarm company in Waltham (that's where I live).

Thanks.

/Eric

    /Eric,

    Try SONITROL.  They have worked problems and have come up with
    solutions.  We have been happy (???) users since 1985 when we
    was robbed (as they say in the business)!  

    Good luck.

    justme....jacqui

Re: window locks

If they can be hidden by drapes, try drilling a hole thru both sashes and
inserting a nail.  Drill into the top corner of the lower sash with the windows
closed, then open the window for a draft, and drill again using the same hole in
the lower sash.  The nail head can be painted with the trim color.  I've done
this on a few windows, and it works like a charm.  Even kept my wife out the
last time she locked her keys in the car.

	re: Side window locks

	I could swear that I've seen window locks that are meant to slide
	into a hole drilled in the side of the frame (as opposed to the type
	that lock the two sashes together), but I've been unable to find
	these in any of the various home center type places. Has anybody
	else seen this tyep of sash lock for sale anywhere?

	Roy

>o	If I do get an alarm system, what if burglar cuts phone line.  (Mine
>	comes into house at arm's reach level !)

Then you hope that the [very loud] alarm horn is enough to scare them away.

Actually, once you plaster your doors and windows with those little signs
saying, "warning - protected by such-n-such alarm company", many crooks will
think twice and hopefully look for an easier place... Unless they know your
house contains something very valuable and worth the risk.

Dan

>last Tuesday.  It feels scary just to go home now, jitters and fears that
>someone might be there.

	    Have you ever considered getting a dog.  They're one of the
	best deterents to burglers.  And they're always there to greet 
	you when you come home.
	    Just a thought.

					Tim

    
    Locks are for honst people.  If someone is gone to breakin....then
    a lock isnt going to hinder them.
    
    As far as the "little signs " go.  I'd put the ones that didnt match
    the system.  Woundnt want to make anything easy.....  
    
    Bear traps work good.  Unless you sleep walk..........
    
    

>I was surprised that the "keywords" didn't have either "alarm" or "burglar".

The keyword is SECURITY.

No, I didn't think of that keyword.

As for dog, I love dogs, but I'm not home until late almost every night, and
I live alone, so I wouldn't want to leave dog alone.

/Eric

    Dogs can be very effective burglar alarms and deterents.  They keep
    working despite utility outages.  Their startup cost is less, too, 
    though they need a lot more maintenance.  
    
    	Enjoy,
    	Larry

An update on my situation:

I bought an alarm system from US Protective Alarm in Waltham.

I don't want a dog because I'm not home much, so it would be cruel to keep
a dog lonely.

This alarm system will still work if AC power dies.  It has a rechargable
backup battery.

I don't have a basement (slab foundation) so they sold me a wireless system.
It's a pretty penny though, about $800 plus $19.change a month for the connection
to central office (that then calls police if they can't reach me).

Wireless means that at each window and door (I did 3 windows and 2 doors) is
a 9-volt battery-operated transmitter.  The keypad (which *is* wired to the
locked metal box) tells when one of the batteries is low and indicates
which one.

There's also a motion detector, also wireless with a battery.

System has all the usual stuff, test mode, "stay home" mode, alternate codes.

The system siezes phone line.  Hence any phone use in the house won't prevent
it from calling central office (although if a thief actually cut line that enters
the house, it would prevent it, but the loud alarm sound would hopefully still
be a deterrent).

By the way, the actual hardware is a company called "Ademco".  Any of you familiar
with it ?

Thanks.

/Eric

p.s.	We tested to make sure the stutter dial-tone due to voice mail messages
	didn't confuse it.

Ademco is a well-known supplier of alarm equipment.  One of the largest in
the industry, I believe.

				Steve

    Just out of curiosity does anybody know if these systems can be
    connected via a cellular phone?  Seems this would resolve the cutting
    the phone line problem.
    
    Bob

Yes, they can.

	Steve

    ... but then, all the bad guys need to do is build a Faraday cage around
    your house before they break in.

    some systems are set so that the base monitor flags them to call
    the owner or the police when a power outage of any kind takes 
    place or the phone lines are cut.  more expensive system though.

    

    >some systems are set so that the base monitor flags them to call
    >the owner or the police when a power outage of any kind takes 
    >place or the phone lines are cut.  more expensive system though.


Please explain how it can call *anyone* if the phone lines are cut

    I think some are more like a point to point circuit vs a normal
    phone line that has equipment at either the local CO or at an alarm
    company that reports an open circuit as a cut line.   Also these
    days I would not doubt some type of cellular phone type system
    in the home that works on the same principal.
    
    Just a guess
    

    Our home was wired for an alarm system by the previous owners but the
    system was never completed. We're waiting for a quote from ADT to reuse
    the wiring but I got to thinking about finishing it myself.  There use
    to be a company called Mountain West that sold a wide variety of alarm
    components.  Are they still around?  Any other sources for alarm
    components besides R Shack?

>>           <<< Note 1314.101 by NAC::ALBRIGHT "Born to DECserver" >>>
>>                             -< Alarm components >-

>>    components.  Are they still around?  Any other sources for alarm
>>    components besides R Shack?

Consumer reports did a story on alarm systems in this months issue.

Surprisingly, they like the Radio Shack brand the best in both the 
wireless and wired categories for DYI.  For the installed brands,  they
didn't find much difference.

DYI brands -  $200-$600
Installed brands - $1000 +

Garry

    
    RE: .-2
    
    Mountain West Alarm supply is indeed still around.  They are a pleasure
    to do business with and supply high quality security components.  
    (Ademco, Amseco, Moose, FBI, Gentex, Ace, Medeco, to name a few.) If
    you are planning on completing the installation yourself, I would
    advise againt a panel from Radio Shack.  Their panels do not provide
    the built-in communicator that the professional panels do.  Mountain West
    supplies, among others, Moose (the Z1100-E is a good panel) and Fire
    Burglery Instruments (FBI) (The Star XL4600 is a good panel also) 
    Features vary between the two.  The several FBI panels that I have
    worked with are ROCK solid. I have never seen any false alarm
    attributed to a fault in the panel.
    
    I don't have the address for Mountain West here with me, but I do at
    home.  I'll post it when I can get it.
    
    Oh, By the way.  A panel with a built-in communicator does not have to
    be monitored, but it does give you the option if you decide to sign up
    with a monitoring company at a later date.  A simple reprogramming of
    the panel from the keypad and connection to the phone line is all that
    is necessary. 
    
    

    I would like to know where Mountain West is also.
    
    I have also found an alarm supply store in Woburn, where I picked up an
    RJ31-X jack and cable.    I should be able to get the name and
    particulars from the receipt.  
    
    	Dave.

    
    Re: .-2
    
    Address of Mountain West Alarm Supply
    
    	Alpha Omega Security Group
    	dba/Mountain West Alarm Supply
    	9420 E. Doubletree Ranch Rd., 102
    	Scottsdale, AZ 85258
    
    	Phone # (602) 971-1200 or (602) 263-8831
    

    RE: .-2
    
    This place is a distributor that caters to "professionals" but does
    have a display area with the major vendors systems, and common parts
    (eg: switches, detectors, wiring tools, etc) out for browsing.
    
    I had no problems walking in and buying a special phone jack and cord.
    (the kind that wires the alarm system in series with the house phone
    circuit) 
    
    Alarm Devices Supply
    245 Salem St
    Woburn MA 01888
    617-933-8430
    
    	Dave.

I'm having a house built and the builder said it would be ok for me to
put the wiring in for an alarm system before the dry wall went up.

i'm going to have my brother do it for me - he used to install alarm
systems for a job at one time, so, he knows what he's doing.

the problem is where to get _all_ the parts... sensors, box, motion detectors,
etc.  i live in MASS, i've made note of the recent replies for places
carrying alarm system stuff.

i'd like to get an integrated fire and burglar system, one that calls the
fire/police dept. when it goes off.   

so, what i'm looking for is:

	a place in MA or southern NH that sells alarm products of good
	quality (ademco, napco, etc).

pointers?
advice?

thanks,
jc

    
    
    
    Most of the good panels these days do not directly 'call' the
    police/fire dept.  The panels are designed to communicate codes to a
    central monitoring station for processing.  The monitoring station is
    responsible for informing the police or fire department of the event.  

    How much are you willing to spend?  Systems can vary from a few hundred
    dollars to a few thousand depending upon features, number of zones,
    number of keypads etc.  

    Building code requires a hard wire smoke detector system in all new
    dwellings.  The electrician usually installs cheap 110VAC units.  You
    can continue to use these, and install another separate smoke detector
    which is connected to your panel.  This is the least expensive method. 
    The 'better' way is to tie the entire smoke system in. This requires
    purchasing different smoke detectors and properly wiring them in as a
    dedicated zone on your panel.  I say properly because if you do it
    incorrectly, you lose the 'supervised' feature which is really the big
    win with this setup.  In this case you do not have a 110 VAC system. 
    Instead you have a supervised, battery backup up fire loop which
    receives power from your alarm panel and will continue to function
    even if you lose power.  If you are going this route, don't skimp on
    the detectors.  Gentex makes some of the best around (~$90.00/each).

    Before doing this, make sure that it is acceptable to your local fire
    inspector.

    I would recommend Mountain West Alarm Supply for the components. (See
    previous replies...)
     
    Good luck!
    
    					- Peter

    As I noted in a previous reply; the store in Woburn has all those
    things; wires, tools, etc. and complete systems for several major brands.
    I don't know of other places (that is I stopped looking, not that they
    aren't out there.)
    
    WRT autodialing: Yes, these things do not typically have voice synth,
    so they cannot just call anyone.  Also many towns these days will not
    take such calls.
    
    I have a Moose Z100 system.  It "knows" about 4 different binary
    protocols and can be programmed to call a computer (2 alternate dial
    sequences) and tell it what has been tripped.  This kind of thing
    would have to be tailored to the capabilities of the monitoring
    service.   I've spoken to a couple services and when you sign up, they
    come out and program it for you.   Some systems have this in ROM and
    the service must blow a ROM for you.  My Moose has an NVRAM of some
    sort, and I can program it myself with no extra equipment.
    
    Also some of these services have distinct biases toward (and against)
    the various panel manufacturers.  For better or worse, I would want a
    service that trusts my panel type and is willing to work with it.  You
    may want to survey some service companies first.
    
    	Dave.

I took Dave's advice and called a place in the area that does monitoring.  it
turns out that they also are willing to sell parts to me directly to install
myself - they'll sell all the parts i need... ballpark estimate is $450-500 for
everything:

	2 keypads, 
	2 long-range infrared, 
	1 short-range infra read, 
	6 zone ADEMCO box with future wireless capability
	3 door switches
	1 window switch
	3 barrier bars for cellar windows
	2 heat detectors
	inside siren
	outside siren
	siren booster thingy (??)

	btw, this is PRC security systems (office out of littleton ma)

also, the monitoring charge is $17 / mo.  what do others pay for monitoring?
is this high? low? fair?  ripoff???


thanks,
jc

>also, the monitoring charge is $17 / mo.  what do others pay for monitoring?
>is this high? low? fair?  ripoff???

$20/month (in Worcester, MA area).  Used a couple times in two years - 
including one very real situation while we were away on vacation...

Dan

    I'm looking for an autodialer (telephone dialer) connected to
    a low temperature sensor for an unattended house. The heat is
    supposed to be on all the time, but if it drops below, say, 50
    degrees I want a phone call and a message. Cheapness is important.
    
    Suggestions?
    
    Doug.

    I've seen devices that will turn on an AC outlet if the temperature
    goes below some preset amount.. I think Honeywell sells one, others
    probably do too.. the idea being that you tell you neighbor to call you
    if they ever see a certain light on.. 
    
    ...tom

    I have heard of such autodialers, but the inexpensive ones don't play
    a message, just beep.
    
    				Steve

    Re autodialer
    
    I just saw one recenlty as described temp drops below X degrees
    you get a call...*I think* it was in Northern Hydralics in the 
    $40 range.
    
    
    		Dean

    Funny you should mention these - FWIW Consumer Reports latest issue
    (got it last week) rates two of these. One worked okay but the other
    one didn't trip until the temp in the house was below freezing - even
    though it was set for 50 degrees.
    
    Stop by your local library and check it out. I'd say that I'll try to
    remember to bring in my copy and enter more specifics but I know me
    better than that - I'll constantly forget and frustrate myself and
    annoy you.

We have one at the vet's. Does all sorts of stuff - according to the box it came
in, it can watch for high/low temps, be tied in to fire/burglar/smokes alarms,
and will dial up to 4 phone numbers and deliver a pre-recorded message. You can
also call it up and listen to whatever's going on in the area within its
"earshot." Don't know how well it works - I've worked there five years and it's
never been plugged in.

						Trace

    Where is the DCS 3000 available?
    
    Anyone know if Eaglestar is only in New England?
    
    thanks,
    Mike

    	I just got one from Home Automation Systems Inc...  1-800-smarthome
    $249 for a DCS 3000 + 0ne keypad.  $86 each for more keypads, $13 for a
    power supply and $25 for battery backup.  They have all the other
    goodies too.  You get an extra 20% off if you manage to convince them
    that you're a contractor.
    
    	FWIW, this is a real nice unit.  I installed one in my last house
    and it worked perfectly.  And the keypad is real nice looking too.
    
    Brian
    

    Any one hear of Sentry Home Security out of Worcester ??? We have
    a sales consultant coming out to the house on the 24th of Feb to 
    evaluate our needs. It seems we won a complete home security system
    from them at a home show and they are coming to explain their system
    and determine what needs to be hooked up. From what they told me on
    the phone I won a system valued at $700 which will cover up to
    XXXX sq feet of home(I forgot what square footage she told me on the
    phone but it was well over what my small split level covers). I kept
    asking her what the catch was,meaning what it would cost me and she
    said only the monthly service/monitoring charge of around $25/month
    No cost for the system or installation. I only had to commit to them
    providing their monitor service for one year. Any feedback on this
    company or their products,reliabilty of service,etc...would be truly
    appreciated,before the 24th of this month so I can have a bit more
    knowledge when the sales rep comes over......
    thanks...
    al

    	My guess is that you and 100's of others "won".  These companies
    usually install very low end alarm systems (maybe 2 door sensors and
    one motion detector), and then make big $$$  on the monitoring
    contracts.  I'd call several other companies and compare the "deals" if
    you're really serious about an alarm system.  Be ready for some pretty
    high pressure sales people too.  They'll pull every scare tatic in the
    book on you and list all the break-ins in your neighborhood to try to
    get you to buy their system.
    
    Brian
    

    I've had good luck with A-Z Vacuum and Security in Worcester... 
    Their monitoring contracts are about half the cost you are quoting,
    also...
    
    They have a store on Pleasant St in Worcester....
    
    You need to get a couple of quotes on a complete system, and
    monitoring. The costs vary a lot. There is a large variety in options,
    also. The better motion detectors can be set up to ignore <20 lb pets,
    etc, but they cost a little more. DIY is always an option, the parts
    are pretty cheap, but it is a real pain to install these in an existing
    house.
    
    Expect a hard sell from any sales rep who comes to your house....
    
    Chris
    

    I pay $180/yr. for monitoring a system for which I own the components
    and paid for their installation.  It's a custom-built house and I'm
    sure that mine is more expensive than many.  You pay extra for every
    nicety, and there are a lot of them to choose.
    
    1.  Decide if you want to rent or buy the equipment.
    2.  Decide how much protection you need.  Perimeter/Fire/other
    3.  Pick the extra options you want. (Hey, some of them are nice!)
    
    Mark

    re. 230
    
    My daughter won the same system.  They told her over the phone some of
    the drawbacks to the system and she decided not to have them come.
    
    1.  No one can be at the house when the system is on; not just people,
    but critters, too.
    
    2.	You can't leave windows open in the good weather as the curtains
    blowing might set off the alarm.
    
    
    re. last:  she never mentioned them saying anything about a fire alarm. 
    I'll have to give her a call.
    

    A good monitored system will have options for fire, over and under
    temp, water in the basement, etc. The key is getting enough zones up
    front for all the sensors - an 8 zone system is not unreasonable in a
    medium/large house, as each motion sensor ends up on its own zone, as
    do the above sensors.
    
    Also, if set up with the proper system, the outside doors can be armed
    without arming the interior motion sensors, for night security...
    
    The monitoring costs the same regardless... the sensors just add to the
    utility (and the up-front cost!).
    
    CHRIS
    

     I had a feeling that others would "win" a system like me,thats why I
    was so skeptical upon recieving the congratulatory phone call. Also,
    the day after I posted my note,I go home and get the mail and low and
    behold,don't I win another security system from the other company that
    was there, ADT. Only they want a 3 year commit to monitor. If I could
    just be so lucky with megabucks. Anyway, I'll let the guy come over and 
    listen to his speel,but the wife and I have decided to hold off for
    now. When we're ready we'll BUY one that suits our needs and have it
    installed on our terms.
    

    You might want to consider SONITROL.  They are a base-monitored
    system that works WITH your household.  You don't have to live
    AROUND it!!!

    justme....jacqui