Conference 7.286::home_work

    
    >Has anyone out there had any experience with modular homes?
    
    	No.
    
    >What would be the best way to heat this type of home?
    
    	A friend has electric heat with thermostats in every room. 
    He also has a wood/COAL stove in the center of the house (2 story
    cape/saltbox - wichever) next to the stairs going up.  The electric
    heaters are used VERY LITTLE, as the stove is sufficient enought
    to heat the entire house.  If you want to use the basement, think
    about another small woodstove for down there too.
    
    >Should I stay away from electric stuff as much as possible?
	see above. - BUT, get a gas hot water, and a Gas stove.
    	(I like gas stoves)
    
    						.dave.

                I know a couple of people who have modular homes, and if 
        you didn't know (i.e. weren't told) that they were modular, you 
        couldn't tell without a critical inspection (best done in an 
        unfinished cellar). From what I've seen, they are very well 
        built. Consider, each section must be rugged enough to ship! And 
        then you tie these sections together (more ruggedness gained!).
                
                /s/     Bob

    
    I'm curious on the cost of these types of homes.  Could you give
    us an idea on how much you are having to spend on a cape and the
    other costs associated with it (ie. foundation)?
    
    Mike B.

    The listed price for a saltbox from one builder is $43.5K but...
    I have no idea how much it is to upgrade from elec stove to gas,
    elec water heater to gas, fireplace w/ woodstove, finished upstairs, 
    two baths, etc....
    
    Foundation, well, septic - $10-20K   Alot of factors here, it all
    depends on the lot, the size of the home, well deptptic system, etc...
    
    The land cost naturally depends on the size and the location of the lot.
    It's tough to find land in southern NH, I don't want to spend more than
    $20K, and I'm trying to find a lot close to MK.  I'm not sure how close I'll
    be able to get, but 45mins away from Merrimack, $20K will buy 5 acres...
       
    

    I haven't heard anything bad about them either. New Shelter recently
    did an article on them,comparing the different companies that manu-
    facturer them and their methods of construction. From what I have
    heard,the homes made in Sweden for export are of exceptional quality
    and durability.
    
    Steve McWilliams
    

    RE:.5
    		Yes, NEW SHELTER magazine had a decent article on homes
    for the first time buyers. It also made reference to a book on modular
    homes. 
    		As for modular homes in general, the Swedes make excellent
    modular homes and many people are starting to import them or
    duplicating the process here as much as possible. There is a
    interestingshow airing on WGBH on saturday mornings (10:30 I believe)
    called "House for all Seasons" I belive they are up to the 8th or
    9th show of almost 30(?) in the series. The first shows were filmed
    in Sweden, demonstrating their modular homes and other building
    techniques. Check it out.
    
    					/Glenn Tremblay
    

    Which month was that New Shelter?  I'm a recent subscriber, on my
    second month - maybe I'll order a back issue...
    
    ps: all of the mod homes that I have looked at have been built in
    the US, right around here for the most part.
    
    don mac

                    < Modular - To buy or not to buy>
    RE.0
    
    Well I just bought a modular home brand new.  It's a 26 x 44 ft
    ranch on 2.5 ancres of land in Leominster, MA.  I think it's the
    best deal I ever made.  I did however look into getting oil or gas
    versus the standard electric heat that comes with these modulars.
    But installations were going to cost more than I wanted.  Besides,
    if your intending to be putting in a wood stove, that would greatly
    reduce your electric bill.  My electric bill for February was only
    $167 which isn't bad considering my wife and kids are home all day,
    and I don't even have a wood stove yet.  As far as cost of these
    modulars, I don't know of anywhere around this area that you can
    buy a brand new home on 1+ ancres for under $100K.  My house after
    extras (1 1/2 bath, sliding doors to 10x12 deck) was $97.7K.  This
    was a package deal that seems to common with a lot of builders,
    includes the land and all excavation that needs to be done (driveway
    and seed for lawn, and several years of guarantees).  Other modulars
    such as capes with unfinished upstairs are very econimcal.  I know
    of some that are selling in Dudley, MA for about $89K.
    
    To sum it all up...Their energy efficient, economical, very
    comfortable, and best of all you can afford them as a first time
    home owner.
    Mike
    

    RE:.7
    	   Its the most recent issue of NEW SHELTER. I just got it in
    the mail two days ago (17-Mar). So, its the one on the news stands
    now.
    						/Glenn
    

    Just for the record...  My original estimate on $20K for land -
    what a joke... turns out that building lots anywheres near MK are
    $45-50K....  That puts the modular around $100-110 for the whole
    setup... I can buy a new Cape in an attractive new development up
    around Concord for $80-85K...  so much for the modular deal... The
    only time that a modular would be a good idea in southern NH, would
    be if you ALREADY had land... No Wonder all of the dealers at the
    home show were asking me if I already had the land...
                                                                        
    PS: there IS land advertised for $20K .... but my mistake was assuming
    that these could be built on w/o major excavation...
    
    don mac
    

    Where are these capes for 80-85K?
    I'd love to take a look.
    Mike B.
    

    There's a new development in Penacook (northwest of Concord), and
    one in Pembroke, southeast of Concord - for Pembroke, contact Joan
    Blais Realty in Manchester NH, I'm not sure who's handeling the
    others, a Concord realtor should know, I heard 2nd hand from a
    Merrimack realtor...  the pembroke ones start around $83K and the others
    start around $81K... if your willing to go that far, you can't beat
    the deal...	don mac

    re .0
    I lived in a pre-fab home in COncord NH, well insulated salt Box
    style cape, with 100% all electric. Yearly Electric bill, for Family
    of 3, with Color TV, Frost Free Refrigerator, 55 degree day, 65
    degree evening temps, was arounf $750.00 per year.
    
    The "advantages" of a wood stove, if I get this right, is that for
    a "Smaller"cost dollar, you can enjoy much higher house temperatures.
    
    Somthing you mentioned in your notem about land:  Two experiences
    I have observed by friends, and one real zinger:
    1) Just because a "seller" shows an authentic perk test, doesn't
    mean it will pass it again when you want to build. The perk test
    should be done as a condition of sale, evewn iof iot's alreadyb
    been done , and passed, before !!
    
    2) Make sure Youi get the land surveyed. Sometimes 5+ acres can
    come up to be 3.5 acres on teh deed.
    
    3) Feller I met in BNrookline a few years ago bought 10+ acres,
    was going to build a house, put in a  a well (dug), and was going
    to farm a llittle bit.
    
    After he bought the land, he had to have his foundation "BLASTED"
    out, had his well drilled from beneath the 4 or so of dirt throiugh
    solid rock, and needed a very clever leech field. He had bopught
    several acres of solid granit!!
    
    In some towns, it's better to have the "local" higher priced contractor
    do the work, especially if you'll need inspections by the town,
    such as for septic systems and such. It's funny how woprk can get
    inspected faster that way.
    
    bob
    

Definitely get a new perk done, and probably a septic design also.  Make sure 
you get the perk done *where you want it.*  If a perk test was done on the land,
that same spot will almost surely perk the same again, but it may not at all be 
where you would want the septic field.  It may even be off in a corner too near 
the lot line to put a septic field anyway.

You definitely have to watch out for other site costs when buying land.  When we
looked, there was one piece that was just beautiful, up on a hill, mountain 
laurel growing wild all over, birch trees, other hardwoods, tall pines, nice 
neighborhood.  But look at the costs of that land compared to the land we 
bought:

		Laurel Hill Rd.			Marblehead Rd

Driveway	300 ft, must be graded	$3000	100 ft, no grading	$ 600

Well		300-500 ft	  $3000-$5000   19 ft dug well		$ 900

Septic		Extensive fill	 $6000-$10000	Fill available on land	$4500

Foundation	Blasting needed  $5000-$10000	Sand pit		$ 800

Total				$17000-$28000				$6800



It's very easy to spend $20,000 or more before you even start the house, so 
watch out for it.

Paul

    My wife and I are currently looking into a modular type house and
    I've looked through this note file and can't find any information.
    what I'm interested in is info on manufactures,model and the biggy
    is the people who install them....I'm not looking for people to
    ream anyone ----just some honest discussions please.
    
    				thanxs in advance
    
    if anyone would like to contact me directly offline I'm at dtn
    221-5425	p.s.this house would be set up in the Gardner,Ma
    area.				
    						gary reynolds

    See note 67.* in TALLIS::REAL_ESTATE.  There's been some discussion
    of them there.  Press KP7 and all that jazz...
    
    -al

    Gary,
    
    I'm taking a ride up to Westville homes in Plastow N.H. this weekend.
    We have a catalogue at home with a price list.  We've narrowed it
    down to two houses we like and want to go up there to look at the
    scale models.  We were going to build but after going to see a modular
    home that a friend just had set up, we decided to go that way. 
    If you want, they'll also do the landscaping and foundation.  The
    list of options are great.  If there are any problems after the
    house is set up, just call and they'll come down and take care of
    it.  You can go in the factory and see how the houses are made at
    any time.  We haven't realy gone anywhere else looking because my
    friend has already been through all that and said that Westville
    was the best way to go.  There is another Westville factory somewhere
    in Mass.  I believe it's near the Conn. border but Plastow is closer
    for us.
    
    Good luck,
    Chris D.

  As long as you're heading up to New Hampsire, you might want to visit
  Key-Loc Homes in Hooksett.  I don't know much about them personally but
  some months ago there was a very positive article about the company in
  the Concord Monitor.  

  JP

    When my wife and I were looking for a house about 2 1/2 years ago,
    we went to Westville Homes in Plastow, N.H. They had a split entry
    set up in their yard. We were able to tour the house and check
    everything out. I am not very knowledgeable about construction,
    but what I saw made a very good impression. There is no way you
    can possibly tell that the house is a pre-fab by looking at it.
    They do have an amazing list of options. However, we found a better
    deal money-wise on a site built home. Depending on where you buy
    the land, the total price of the investment could come out to be
    about the same as having a house built on site. What I consider
    an advantage is that your pre-fab home could be ready and installed
    in less time than it would take to build on site since they don't
    have to worry about inclement weather and their machinery and materials
    are pretty much in the same place. Seems crazy, but it is easier
    to move a house to its location than it is to coordinate shipments
    of materials to a building site.

    I'm presently finishing up on building my second home, but my first
    home was a modular ranch from New England Home, also of NH. We lived
    in the modular for over 6 years and never had a problem. I would
    not discourage anyone from purchasing a modular because I truely
    believe they are well put together. If fact I would have went modular
    with the second home but I decided to try doing everything myself
    this time around. I would make a couple of recommendations based
    on my past experience with our New England modular:
    - try to get some other type of heat source, such as FHW/FHA etc.,
    Most modulars are built with electric heat (or at least they used
    to be). It's worth the added costs
    - second have your rugs installed after the house is set. We had
    the rugs already installed in each separate half and the carpet
    seam between the two sections was every noticeable.
    

    My wife and I did go to Westville this weekend.  I couldn't believe
    I was seeing an assembly line for houses.  We talked to one of the
    builders for awhile and he was explaining some things about the
    houses and special options.  I would recommend that you take a ride
    up there and see the place.  They still have the model home set
    up as stated in .04.  Unfortunately, there were no sales people
    around to talk to.  They were probably all at the Home show in Boston.
    
    As far as KEY_LOC goes, we decided that there is no need to look
    any farther.  And for Continental, we met a couple at Westville
    that had just come from Continental and they said "don't bother".
    That makes two people that said the same thing about Continental.
    sSo far I've heard only good things about Westville, bad things
    about Continental, and nothing at all (good or bad) about KEY-LOC.
    
    Chris D.
    
    

We bought a Huntington Home last December and are very pleased with it.  It 
is 2X6 on 16" centers, fully insulated, and well built.  I have a few tips.

1) Buying a modular is like buying a car.  You start out with the striped 
down version, and start adding options.  The $$$ add up very fast.  Stick
with the striped down version whenever possible.  Add the bells and 
whistles later on your own.  For example, they wanted $1200 for a bay 
window.  You could buy one from Grossman's for a *lot* less.

2) Don't have them do any wallpapering.  It is expensive and will get 
ruined the first year due to settling.  I have seen this happen to several
homes already.

3) Remember that dealing with a modular builder is just like dealing with 
any other, get EVERYTHING in writing.  One of the reasons we went modular
is because I knew that 90% of the construction is done at the factory, so I
didn't have to worry about the builder jamming me at every turn.

4) Finally, as a general point about building a new home, if you can live
someplace you like for the next 2 or 3 years while building, do it.  The 
one thing builders have over people is that they know you have to move in.
Make it as business like as possible, and don't swallow any bs they give 
you.  It may sound negative, but it will save you a lot of grief.  I was
living with my parents (along with my wife and two kids), and I had to 
listen to every excuse in the book as to why my house was going to be late
Building a new house is great, but protect yourself.  I was somewhat lucky,
I basically got a good deal.  My builder still managed to screw some things
up massively, and it remains to be seen what will happen.  The actual home
from the factory is fine though.

Brad.

    I looked in to modulars for awhile.  I have been   V-E-R-Y  impressed
    with the quality of construction in two of the manufacturers, namely
    Huntington and Avis.  There's an Avis contractor next door to Gardner
    in Ashburnham, name of Charles Moulton.  There's a couple of
    Huntington's in your area, too.  See the real_estate notes file
    for a listing or two of dealers.
    
    BTW, I am currently not building a modular, because I can't find
    affordable land.  Good luck to you!
    
    Elaine
    

    Has anyone done business with Bow House of Bolton, MA?  We're
    pretty sure we will be buying one of their packages this year.
    
    o Do they deliver what they say they will and when they say
      they will?
    o Is there real value in their materials pricing?
    o Are their prices negotiable?
    o Other?
    
    Thanks, /Rick

This isn't a direct answer to your question (don't you love notes that 
start that way?) but... One of their former model homes-- a big full 
cape-- right on 117 in Bolton is currently for sale. You might like to 
see how the finish, etc., has held up in the 10 years with actual real 
people living in it. 

I would say very well.

Slightly more direct to the point, but second hand: a realtor 
currently listing my house had neighbors build a bow house next to 
hers. She reports her neighbors' experience to be very positive where 
the bow house people are concerned. I talked to the bow house people 
last fall and was very impressed with them as well as with their 
product. We decided, finally, the finish and all were just a little 
too precious and quaint for us. Our decision was not based on the quality of 
their product or our impressions of the people.

John H.

    	How much do these houses cost? Are they reproductions of
    classic styles or are they contemporary?
    

    A bow house - I'm familiar with one on South Side Road in York,
    Maine - is basically a cape but with a convex roof, derived from
    the original use of timbers from a sailing ship's hull in place
    of conventional rafters.  There's no reason why the inside could
    not be contemporary, but it usually isn't.
    
    The bowed roof does add a little unique architectural interest,
    but in itself it is not a major contributor to, for example,
    better space utilization.
    
    pbm
    

    RE: .3
    
    	Are we talking about the same thing here?  A bow house is a
    particular style where the roof is curved that many builders know
    how to construct however is this what Bow House of Bolton makes?
    Aren't they more like an Acorn, DECK, Habitat, or Lindal home?
    
    -al

    Re .4
    
    Yes, you're correct.  I was just explaining where the original
    "bow" houses came from.  Why? I dunno.  Seemed like a good idea
    at the time.  The referenced house in York is one of the "pre-fab"
    packages, like the ones you mentioned.  Very neat looking.
                           
    pbm
    

The Bow house people in Bolton model their rooflines on 17th century 
capes scattered around the Cape. Some are, or were, also found in 
England. The extent of the bow is much greater on the repros than 
what's left on the originals.

They are different than other kit home companies in that their product 
is a "trim package." It includes curved roof timbers, shingles, special bricks 
for hearth and chimney, special wide-pine flooring (up to 16 or 18" 
wide), custom millwork for interior trim, real leaded float glass 
muntin windows, etc, etc. They also have some restrictions as to what 
you can do with a bow house: no skylight or dormer visible from the 
street so as to preserve the bow house look.

After you get their plan, you find a contractor who has built one 
before or who is willing to try and go to it. There are contractors 
they work with who they'll recommend.

The rough guesstimate sort of ballpark not to be quoted maybe figure 
we got was from $85 to $120/sq ft, depending on finish detail and 
including an "average" amount of site work. That was about 6 months 
ago.

John H.

    The bow does give you slightly more headroom in the attic space,
    since the beams really are curved (they're laminated).  Some
    builders fake the curve by just putting curved sections on top
    of regular rafters, but the Bow House does it the "real" way.
    From all I've heard, Bow House is a top-quality outfit in all
    respects, but pricey.

    Bow House Inc does a couple of things:
    1.  They provide architectural modifications to their base plan
        layouts.  The base plans are for cape style homes.
    2.  They are a specialty lumber yard sourcing laminated rafters
        (the only structural element in the package), roofing shakes,
        siding, windows, doors, flooring and moldings.
    
    They bundle all this into a package.  As an example, a full cape
    package runs a little over $40K for the basics, then add $15K for
    the extras like raised panels for the fireplaces and wainscot.
    
    The local builder supplies the common materials like 2x4's, sheathing.
    
    RE .1	We looked at the bow on 117 and it's still very nice.
    	We'd love to just buy one and save the headaches of building
    	but the existing ones we've looked at are lacking one thing
        or another.
    
    Thanks. /Rick 

If you're looking at Bow houses, you ought to at least look into the 
possibility of having the major house structure timber framed.  My aunt had one 
built using an oak timber frame and skim-coat plaster and it's just beautiful.
The antique feeling of the other Bow house details (wide pine floors, brick 
styles, molding, wainscot, etc) is very nicely complemented by the exposed 
beams, particularly when there are some nicely executed exposed joints, and 
even more so if the beams are decorated slightly with corner beading, etc.

Paul

    
    I also looked into Bow House a couple of years back. We went to
    visit them in Bolton and got a price on a package that we were
    interested in. It came to around 40K. This was out of our ballpark
    given that we had to buy land, well, foundation, etc. etc.
    
    So we left with our dreams of owning a Bow House having gone up
    in smoke. We then contacted an architect in Princeton [which is
    where we live] and inquired about one of his period houses [George
    Ward house, I believe] and asked about plans etc.
    
    To make a long story short, I ended up explaining my frustation
    around going to Bow House and being priced out. I was then shocked
    to find out the following: He was the architect who developed the
    original 'repro' Bow House. Not only that, but he still held exclusive
    rights to the design and has started his own company that produces
    the laminated rafters. His comment then was that if I was still
    interested in building a 'Bow House', I could buy the rafters from
    him and do the rest myself. Which is what I did.
    
    If you go this route, you _WILL_ save big bucks. Bow House offers
    a lot of nice extra's but they're way overpriced. And if your not
    a purist, there is a multitude of optional ways to go and still
    maintain the 'Bow House' look.
    
    Charlie

    re: .11
    Can you put in the name and address of the fellow in Princeton?
    I'm thinking of building a barn/garage "sometime," and the
    curved rafters might be a nice touch.

    RE: .12
    
    The architect's name is Russell Oatman. His address is Mirick Road,
    Princeton, Mass. 01541.
    
    Be advised that the rafters go for ~$115.00 apiece. Also, they are
    manufactured with radii that assumes a particular span. This will
    probably be no problem if your barn/garage is of sufficient size. 

    There's one other point that I'd like to make. As was already mentioned
    Bow House is quite adamant concerning the final 'look' of their
    package to the point where you are requested to sign an agreement
    to adhere to their specifications. There is a builder in Princeton
    who went the same route as I did and did something that I wish that
    I had done.
    
    Rather that spend all that money on expensive preformed rafters
    for the back of his house, he opted to build a dormer [with standard
    rafters] in the rear, which is set in a couple of feet from the
    gable ends so that the 'bow' design remains on the ends, but provide
    much more usable space upstairs. He also has a beautiful greenhouse
    attached to the side. The point being that neither of these options
    would be allowed by Bow House.

    Charlie

    I'm looking ahead a couple of years to my first home.  (Lord, am
    I sick of apartment-life!)
    
    My "S.O." and I will probbaly get married by then, and we anticipate
    wanting to remain in the southern NH area.
    
    We like modern styling in a home, with passive solar features,
    ecologically intelligent building practices, and minimal maintenance.
    (I'd love a river/lake/brook view, but that may be too nearly
    miraculous to hope for!)
    
    We've been considering a Miles Homes kit.  Stick-built, self-financed,
    pretty good floorplan... Anybody worked with them before?  We aren't
    very likely to be much more than general contractors for ourselves...
    I have back problems and can't do much lifting, and Kerry isn't
    amazingly handy, either.  We might be able to do some of the work
    ourselves, but I'm skeptical.
    
    The kit we are interested in is passive solar, partially earth-bermed,
    two levels to be built into a hillside.  Kit costs are supposedly
    roughly $49K for this model, not counting land and site preparation.
    Then there's labor costs and finishing...
    
    I'd be interested in input about Miles Homes in particular,
    alternatives to this plan (of any sort!) and any input about the
    realities of the likely total cost of this project in the
    Nashua/Merrimack/Hollis or nearby area.  (We like being near to
    Boston and shopping and all that -- no kids, so schools don't matter.
    But we wouldn't be interested in being north of, say, Milford,
    regardless of the savings.)
    
    Thanks all you DIY'ers... I am impressed with the expertise I see
    in this conference!
    
    Sherry
          

I'd be interested in input about Miles Homes in particular
    Once upon a time, back when I lived in Connecticut, my father
    was interested in Miles homes.  Nothing came of it, but I do
    remember a bit.  Miles was a subsidiary of International
    Silver Company who's headquarters was in Wallingford (or
    possibly Meridan) Connecticut.  They used to have some of
    the houses on display there.  That is in the center of
    Connecticut, ~130 miles from Nashua.

    I've noticed recently, that local realtors 'sell' Miles
    houses.  At least when my dad was looking you could buy them
    directly from the company.  INSILCo used to have ads in the
    Real Estate section of the Sunday HARTFORD CURRENT.

Boston and shopping and all that -- no kids, so schools don't matter.
    I thought schools didn't matter too, as I don't have any
    kids.  However, they matter to potential buyers should you
    ever want to sell your house.

    Thanks for the tip.
    
    I'm hoping to find/build/buy a home I like well enough to stay put
    "forever"!  At any rate, I figure there should always be a market
    (nowadays) for childfree couples, so I like the idea of moving away
    from what most people consider one of the prime attractions and
    therefore one of the factors that raises property values/prices.
    
    Nobody else out there has any helpful advice?
          
    Sherry

    Miles Homes.  I remember them well.  I saw their homes at a home
    show a quite a few years ago.  Got some info from the rep and
    made an appointment for a sales person to come see me..
    
    He came.  Everything sounded perfect.  The only problems with
    them is once you commit, your on a time schedule.  Find your
    land and buy it, put a foundation on it and then prove it's
    there, then you start getting your materials.  This is all well
    and good, but what happens if you can't meet your commitment?
    
    You agree to a $300 plan fee, (was the price then).  This fee
    is not refundable, (should your plans fall through).  You have
    so much time to make any changes you want to the plans.  After
    a certain time frame I believe they charge you extra for change
    to the plans.
    
    This all sounds pretty good so far, (it did to me too).  Well,
    their sales person made all kinds of promises to us about getting
    the land, (they'll help and so forth).  This never happened.  The
    bottom line was, we could not find land which we were happy with.
    Like I said up above your on a time schedule once you sign the
    papers, (reminds me of an old Cheech and Chong skit. I will not
    sign zee papers).  Anyway, we could not hold up our end of the
    bargain, (not getting the land is a big key to this plan).  The
    so called help the sales rep offered was BULL.  
    
    In the end, (took quite awhile) Miles Homes wanted their $300
    and I was not willing to give it.  The reasons they gave me were
    a line of crap as far as I was concerned.  Their office claims
    the sales person did have the right to offer help in finding
    the land, (not part of their signed agreement, so they said).
    He was wrong in doing so.  He was longer with the company when
    this all ended, (because of his poor performance).  As far as
    I was concerned, he misrepresented the company by making false
    promises.  In the end, they threatened me with a law suit.  I
    told them go ahead.  My point, if they have people working for
    them and not representing them in the way they want, get rid
    of the Bozo.  Don't send them to my house making all kinds of
    promises that your company can't maintain.  End of story as
    far as I was concerned.  Have never heard from them since.  This
    was probably about 5 years ago. 
    
    I don't know if they've changed since then, but I would recomend
    not signing anything from them unless you have land in your
    possession..  
    
    Good luck...
                                       
    
    Dan
    

re .0:

    I'd be interested in input about Miles Homes in particular,
    alternatives to this plan (of any sort!)

We were interested in having a house built for us (fell through because
we couldn't find land).  After researching in Home_Work and Real_Estate, 
we went to talk to Custom Modular Structures (CMS).  They have quality
houses, built to your specifications (they mean the "custom" part of
their name literally).  So you could probably get most of what you
want with a house designed with them.  Once you decide to go with
them, you put down a deposit and the detailed blueprints are made.  
Once you get them to your liking, you either cancel (and get back all 
but $1000) or schedule your house to be delivered.  You arrange for
all site work.  I don't know if you can ask them to delay delivery,
but you ought to own the land before ordering the house anyway.
See other notes for more information, but the key problem is
finding land.  We felt that we could face up to the problems of 
getting contractors to do the site prepration and button up the
modules, but we simply couldn't find land where we wanted at even a
semi-reasonable price.  

	Enjoy,
	Larry

I don't know what your requirements are, or where you've been looking, but
Sullivan Realty in New Boston has *lots* of land listings for southern
New Hampshire. They're the first agency I've encountered that specializes
in land. (Shirley Sullivan belongs to some Real Estate Board - I forget the
name - that deals exclusively in land.) 

You might try contacting her: 603-487-2213

I realize that realtors aren't usually the best sources of information for
finding land, but I think Sullivan is an exception.

BTW - CMS sells Alouette homes, which are also sold by a group called the
"Home Team" on Route 4, just outside of Concord, NH. They have several
models for you to see, if you're interested. (I don't have the number here,
but I think they're listed under Alouette homes in the phone book.) 
If you plan to build north/west of Nashua, you'd probably use them instead
of CMS. I called CMS, and they told me that "Alouette is Alouette" - it
doesn't matter whether you buy from CMS or The Home Team, you get the same
product. Just depends on where you're planning to build.

There are also model homes in Sutton (NH) built by the Williamsburg Group,
who sell MMH homes (Canadian manufacturer, as is Alouette). You might want
to look at those and compare. They seem to offer a more complete package
than the Home Team (they'll do *all* the general contracting for you, if
you want them to  - everything from site prep. to landscaping).

I don't know enough to recommend one over the other, but I found it helpful
to look at the models. 
					- Kemlo

    
    I am looking for some information from people who have purchased
    modular homes in the last year or so. I have questions regarding:
    
    1) Is Westville still regarded as the best in the area? Are there
       any other good ones?
    
    2) What are the pros and cons of purchasing one with an unfinished
       upstairs?
    
    3) How have they been holding up for those people who have owned
       them for a couple of years?
    
    4) Is it cheaper to have the company perform all the site work or
       have a General contractor do it?
    
    5) What can I expect to pay for a finished/unfinished Colonial,
       Gambrel, or Cape with two baths and three bedrooms?
    
    6) What to be weary of throughout the whole process
    
    
    Regards,
    
    Rick
    

    
    
      Has anybody out there purchased or know someone who has purchased
    a modular home through New England Homes in Peabody or Huntington
    Homes in Orange,Ma
    
      I am looking for references both good and bad.
    
      I am also looking to hear from people who own modular homes: who
    are the best dealers to go through?
    
    
    
    Regards,
    
    Rick Terrio

    RE: .13
    
    This sounds like a great deal deal to me! At ~$115 apiece for rafters
    and with some help from a contractor It looks like you could have
    a replica of the replicated Bow House cheap. Any idea as to how
    much per sq.ft that would cost? 
    
    Would the interior of the house have some of the quaintness that
    Bow House offers???
                       
    
    			Jim-who's-a-year-late-with-his-questions

    
      I have shopped around and compared prices and quality of most
    of the modular home companies in the area, i.e.(Ma & NH), and have
    determined that Huntington Homes out of Orange,Ma is the best buy
    for the money. My only question now is that I have to go through
    their builder/dealer in the area, Kevin Nelson out of their
    Ashburnham, MA office. Is there anybody out there who has dealt
    with him building a stick built or modular home or know someone
    who has? Looking for both good and bad references.
    
    
    Rick

    Well, I was in the sam boat as you about 6 months ago, my husband and I
    we're looking for a home in the Lunenburg, Leominster, MA area and the
    prices we extremely out of our reach.  I don't know where you were
    looking but we just bought a modular home in Mason, NH on 5 acres of
    land and we paid under 140,000, this was already built and we are the
    second owners, but just to let you know, the house is insulated with
    12" of insulation and so well built that we can put the heat on when we
    get home at 6:30 and turn it down at 7:30 and the house will stay
    between 68-72 degrees until we're sound asleep.
    
    Also, before you make your final decision, might I suggest looking
    around a bit more.  Some small older houses that we have looked at had
    hidden problems that we were unaware of at the time we were looking,
    like rotted wood under the door frames where ants had eaten it away,
    and leaky pipes behind the walls.  Just be careful and go with your
    best gut feeling.
    
    Good luck and I hope you are as happy with your home as I am with my
    modular.
    
    SH
    

    I have been building my own home now for several years and I just
    found out about this file.  My home is a Monterey Dome.  Is anyone
    out there familiar or has any experience with this type of home?
    I would like to hear from you.  Thanks.
    
    Jan

This note has been temporarily write-locked pending approval of the author.

To the author:  This subject is already under discussion in this file, under the
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Paul [Moderator]

    We are considering erecting a modular home this coming spring. I
    am flying out to Penn next weekend to view some models of a company
    called Simplex. Has anyone heard of them? Is there a 'edmunds' book
    for houses? How does one go about evaluating the different modular
    home companys? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
    
    Bob

    I am looking into the different options as far as building a 
    home, modular, etc..
    
    HAS anyone heard of the house shells?? where its just the outside walls
    and you have to put the rest in yourself??
    plumbing,sheetrock, electric,etc.
    
    Is there someone I can go talk to about this? construction, etc.
    I saw something about it about four years ago, but I havent seen
    anything lately..
    
    wendy o'
    

    
    	Good questions.  Let me add one more question since this is how
    we're thinking of putting on our addition a couple of years from now:
    Since building permits have time limits, does the inside have to be
    completed within the permitted time or can the building permit cover
    only the "shell" part of the project?
    
    							-craig

    Jim Walters, home office in Tampa, sells house plans and will construct
    the shell for you.  You then finish the rest of the house.  For more
    money, they will complete more tasks.  They will even go so far as to
    complete the entire house.

    The house plans they offer are basic, practical square or rectangular
    boxes.  The plans don't offer any Victorian, Colonial, Italian
    Renaissance, whatever.

    Jim Walters has some pre-built models to tour, much like a mobile home
    dealers.  They also frequently advertise in the Sunday paper inserts. 
    There other method is to identify a particular market and them mail
    propaganda directly to the mail patron.  My Dad is a direct mail
    marketing salesman and Jim Walters is one of his customers.  If you
    can't find any information about Jim Walters in your area, contact me
    by mail and I will try to get information from my Dad.

There are lots of options for shells.  A good source for options is
"the home_building kit catalogue" by Mike McClintock and I believe there
are other similar catalogues.  One of the more interesting ones that
I looked into was "Affordable Luxury Homes" out of Markle IN.  (219)-758-2141.
There are too many to mention here.   A good framing carpenter could probably
build and help you design your shell as well.

-Larry Cohen

    great!!
    
    thanks all..
    
    		wendy o'
    

    I'm doing exactly this right now in E. Mass. as a major (24'X48')
    addition to my house. Got my own building permit - no restriction on
    completion date, and the electrical permit will cost $60. Plumbing must
    be done by a plumber - see DIY Plumbing note in this conference. I'll
    wimp out and have a sheetrock guy do that, but 'sweat equity'
    otherwise. 
    	I had an architect draw up what I wanted and requested bids from
    local contractors for 'Rough Framed' work. This takes it through
    excavation, site work, foundation, framing (interior and exterior),
    siding and windows, and roofing.  It leaves a DIY paradise! - Chris

>    	I had an architect draw up what I wanted and requested bids from
>    local contractors for 'Rough Framed' work. This takes it through
>    excavation, site work, foundation, framing (interior and exterior),
>    siding and windows, and roofing.  It leaves a DIY paradise! - Chris
      
      If  you're  willing  to contract for the excavation and site work,
      and the foundation separately from  the  framing  contract  you'll
      probably  save money.  If you have architectual and site plans you
      shouldn't have any problem co-ordinating the different trades.

In my town, you cannot get a building permit for just part of the work --
you have to apply for the whole thing at once.  However, there's no time
limit in my town, so that just means you have to figure out what you're
doing in advance, which is no so bad a thing.  Our building inspector
didn't ask for really detailed plans, but there were a couple of 
important points that he wanted done his way, and it's as well to
know that up front.

Picking the contractors yourself gives you a chance to keep a closer
rein on the project than you'd have with a general contractor --
important if you have really strong ideas about how you want the
result to look.  On the other hand, it's a lot easier to have someone
else take charge of it.  I went the former way, and I'm glad, but 
sometimes it means a sudden half day off from work so that I can meet
with the foundation contractor to make sure the cement he's going to 
pour the next day goes just where I want it.  Don't try to do without
those meetings... 

	Enjoy,
	Larry

    I am looking for a low cost no frills summer vacation house,
    to be constructed. Jim Walter Homes seems to be the perfect solution. 
    Their designs are simple,  prices are low, and they will build to
    any stage. 
    
    I would like to hear from noters who have any experience with
    this company. 

    Where is everybody??? Jim Walters is all over the south. Where are
    the southerners that have looked at Jim Walter homes. Or are they so
    bad everyone is embarassed to admit they have looked???

    I have looked at their brochures just for fun since my dad mails the
    brochures as part of his job.  Their floor plans are real basic and you
    have to build the house.  They will build it for you to any stage you
    want for additional money.  What that means is that they hire local
    contractors to do the work for you.
    
    Why bother?  If you want a simple house, buy the plans and build it. 
    If you want to have someone build a house for you, hire a local
    contractor and have it built.  I guess if you wanted a less than 2000
    sq. ft. house for a summer cottage or mountain retreat, they might be
    an alternative to look at.  No frills, just a basic roof, walls, and
    floor.  No thoughtfull designs here.  
    
    If I was going to build my own house, I would like a more interesting
    design with lots of special  touches. (See the note about HELP DESIGN
    THE PERFECT HOUSE.)  A 1200 sq. ft. ranch is not an exciting house.  I
    know, I live in one!
    
    Jim Walters fills a niche.  People who want to build their own home at
    their own pace.  When they are finished they can point to it and say "I
    built that myself and my mortage will be payed off in less than 10
    years."   The drawback from my point, it that when you are
    finished, you still have a small ranch, no matter how much cherry
    flooring and maghoney molding you have put in to it.

    
    Has anyone had any dealings with the "Home Team"
    out of Pembroke N.H., they sell "Alouette" Modular
    Homes from Canada, or does anyone have any information on
    the quality of Alouette Modular Homes?  
    
    Any information at all would be appreciated.
    
    

    Alouette Modular used to be in Ossipee, NH.  We were strongly
    considering them a couple of years ago.
    
    They are a solid wood house, no formaldyhyde (sp).  The construction
    was solid but they tended to be extremely functional.  They are a very
    well built house.
    
    I believe that you might find them in Fitchburg somewhere, or an agent
    of theirs.
    
    Their interior wood was all mahogany (luan I presume).
    
    We felt limited in their design back then and considered New England
    Homes for more interest in design.  But the agent in Fitchburg does
    design by computer and you can surely upgrade and redesign I would
    think.  
    
    But, I did really like the construction, no other modular was that well
    built.  Considering the winters in Canada I would expect it to be that
    well built.
    
    

  Hi,
    Was looking through this conference for prefabricated/panelized construction
but was unable to locate anything.( (MODERATOR: Please start new topic if necessary!)
  Here goes:
      Has anyone any thoughts on panelized construction?  It is when you 
spec the house, and they send you it in pieces. The walls and structure of the
house are completed ( Can be prewired ) and you just need some one to piece it
all together, a plumber, perhaps a finish carpenter, and the HVAC guy. I can 
do most finish work ( and probably will) but a plumber may be a good idea, since
it requires alot of patience.  I dont want to cross post this under a contractor
note since its all related to this topic.  
	For all those trivia buffs out there, Edison  had his house in Florida
prefabricated in Maine.  Anyway, the cost of conventionally built housing is a lot
more than the panelized version.  like 25.- 100/ more per sq.ft.  for the same
thing. (I'm comparing apples with apples, BTW).  Anyone with experience out there
please respond.
thanks.

    Kit Homes....
    
    I am thinking of building a kit home. As with any project there are
    hidden traps. Could the learned reader enlighten me on possible problem
    areas. 
    I intend to build on a concret slab, 4 bedrooms ect. I intend to do
    most of the work myself, bar electrical and plumbing. 
    
    any hints ?
    
    thanks,    

    RE:.0

    	I bought a kit home and built it myself (well with the help of some
    friends).  There are a few things that the sellers try their damnedest
    not to mention. like septic systems and wells the price of lots to
    build on and how much that slab your going to build on costs.  First
    check out the company your buying from get references from them, usually
    people who have bought from them and call them, sure it'll be stacked in 
    their favor but it's better than nothing.  Second find out what kind of
    material they use, in my case the windows where the cheapest garbage 
    I've ever seen and they had to be replaced 3 years after the house was
    built.  If you have the time also check out the local contractors that
    you'll be dealing with again in my case I was burned by the plumber, and
    it isn't easy to get another plumber to finish somebody elses work they 
    all wanted to rip it out and start over.  If your buying more than just
    the house from these people (in my case I also bought plumbing fixtures, 
    wiring and electrical outlets, light fixtures, rugs and even the paint
    to paint inside and outside of the house) check with friends and any
    source that you can find and make sure that your not buying to much.
    I had 40 gallons of paint (if I  remember right it was almost $1000) of 
    different kinds and colors for a small 5 room ranch (just about 1000 sq ft)
    the salesman made it sound like it was the right amount boy did I throw 
    a lot of paint away.  If possible deal with a local company so if there
    are problems you can go there and straighten it out.  I dealt with a mid-
    western company and was that a pain to straighten things out.  It was an 
    experience I'll never forget and I'm not sorry I did it but I'll never do 
    it again.  I thought I knew everything boy did they teach me a whole lot 
    more.  For all the grief I went through it did get me into my own home
    and at a cost a lot cheaper than I could have bought one already built.
    Hey best of luck with building your own and remember when you own the
    home there is always something that needs fixing.

    Joe    
                    

    
    
    FWIW,
    
     I just built a "package" home, not quite as comprehensive as a kit. It
    supplied all the wood products, plans, doors and windows. My wife and I
    were the General Contractors with a bunch of help from others. The
    first warning I would have is to follow the plans carefully. If
    they supply a 10' 2x, don't cut a 12' for that application - you will
    be short later. We organized / stacked our lumber by size and
    application ( deck, siding, interior, .... ). We also rented a semi
    trailer to store all the stuff that needed to stay out of the weather
    or helping hands ( windows, trim, doors, ..).
    
     The second piece of advice ( if it applies in your case ) is to check
    out the financing very carefully. Our package supplier wanted all their
    money up front. Our construction loan would only pay out as work was
    completed. This necessatated a bridge note until the completed work
    caught up with the materials. In fact our whole construction draw
    process seemed to be "tight" in the initial stages and then loosen up
    during the completion stages ( ie. not enough money for framing, but
    more than enough to cover the flooring).
    
     I'll be glad to discuss in more details by mail or phone.
    
     Chuck                       

I understand that building codes can cause problems -- does the kit home
match your local codes, and more to the point, does it match your local
inspector's interpretation of the codes?  I'd suggest talking with your
inspector before buying anything.  My experience is that a good relationship
with the inspector is worth gold.

	Enjoy,
	Larry

PS -- Elf says you live in Sydney, Australia, so I guess you don't have to
dig down 4' for the footings like we do in New England.  If the footings
have to be deep, then I think building a basement makes a lot of sense --
it's a wonderful place to store stuff if you are a packrat like me.  I grew 
up in California, where the builders long ago stopped building houses with
basements because slabs were cheaper.  I'd never want to go back to a slab.

Have received info material from a number of kit home companies and starting to 
examine the fine print. Quite interesting what is not mentioned, therefore not 
supplied. It also explains some of the considerable price differences. The slab   
or piers constructions are not included and can be up to 10% of the kit home 
price, so I have  been told. If I go ahead it will be a hard slog and I guess 
the brewery shares will go up. If anything of interest will come up I will post 
it in here for the benefit of others.   

cheers,   

    Hi,
    
    I was wondering if the person who entered the previous reply ever found
    any information on panelized homes. Did you end up  building one? I'm
    planning to build a home and have looked into these a little and would
    love to find someone else who has any info. 
    
    Thanks,
    Gina Marksteiner