Conference 7.286::home_work

    I think that what you are refering to are often called `pocket doors'
    (because they open into a pocket in the wall).  I don't know of
    any place that can help you, but the right name may help in asking
    around.
    
    Rich

    FAIRVIEW MILLWORK in Bridgewater, Ma. has pocket door frames for
    door's 2'0" thru 3'0" , $37.00 each. 617-697-6128
    

    We just had one installed.  Hardware came from Nashua Lumber here
    in Nashua.  It's hard to do without taking out a whole chunk of
    wall though.

    We put one of those in our first house.  We just used an ordinary
    door hung from a track.  
    
    	HRB

    The framing for a pocket door is much different than regular
    framing.  You will probably have to rip out a large section of
    an existing wall and re-frame it.  Then sheetrock/plaster/new
    finish work it.  Pocket doors are normally installed in non-load
    bearing walls, since the entire pocket is basically hollow.  Just
    enough wood to support the sheetrock.  If you are going to install
    it in a load bearing wall, you will probably have to reinforce
    the header.
    
    -al

Does anyone understand how to keep doors from sticking ? I suppose 
if the door has a very large clearance all around it this won't be
a problem. This seems like a poor solution at best. My experiece
with this problem is as follows. Several sets of prehung doors 
were installed in a addition a while back. All sets are Morgan raised 
panel doors and seem to be well made. Actually I've had this problem 
in the past with other doors so I don't think it has anything to 
do with the brand. All doors fit fine with a 3/32 gap on both sides.
I primed and painted several with latex primer and paint. When done they
still fit fine. Summer came and the door swelled up to point were I
had to beat them open. This was not the desired effect so I tried 
priming and painting a couple of other  doors with oil base primer and 
paint. I painted every surface with two coats. They fit fine. Summer 
came and they swelled up, one to the point were the door wouldn't even 
close. All of the unfinished doors still fit fine, they always have, 
summer and winter. What is the solution, plane big gaps on the side of 
the door before it's painted ?
    

    
    RE: .0
    
    Did you remember to paint [or seal somehow] the top and bottom 
    ends of the door?
    
    Charlie

    Yes, I took the doors off and painted all surface, two coats no
    less. I too find it strange that a door finished on all sides will
    expand while a totally unfinished door doesn't.
    

    
    
    	When I installed my garage doors, the instructions clearly stated
    note to paint the ends of the panels.  This would be equivalant
    to painting the top and bottom of a regular door.  According to
    the instructions by leaving the ends unpainted the door is allowed
    to breath and reduces the chance of swelling. 
    	 I recommend you try removing the paint on the top and bottom
    of at least one door and see if that does the trick.
    
    
    
    						Guido

    It sounds like your doors are only swelling enough to cause the
    binding problem (probably the thickness of your two coats of paint),
    This would explain why the unfinished doors don't cause you any
    problem. If the top and bottom paint removal thing doesn't work,
    I suggest you just plane off the jamb side of the door about 1/8"
    and your problems should be solved.
    

    After 20+ years of wood boat building and repair I am convinced
    that paint has practically NO effect on moisture absorption into
    or out of wood. It decidedly does NOT 'seal the wood'. If you doubt
    this, take an old wood boat with years worth of paint on it and
    toss it into the water. It will swell up tight as a drum in a few
    hours or overnight. Leave it out in the sun and in a couple days
    the sides will look like venetian blinds.
    
    Pannel doors are of course built of pannels to MINIMIZE the effect
    of swelling and shrinking, but there is still movement and the fit
    of the door must be adjusted to accomodate this movement.
    
    Plane off the edge of your door until its just snug in humid weather.
    It should have a small, but acceptable gap come winter.
    
    Ron

The other day on "This Old House" I actually saw something worth while.  
They had a cabinet maker showing how he made raised panel doors.  He had 
a cutter that was attached to a radial arm saw that cut the panels.  I 
had previousely seen people doing this by ripping them in a table saw 
and the first method was clearly superior.  My question is does anyone 
know of any similar cutters one can put on a table saw?  What is your 
favorite method (if any) for raising panels?

BTW - after this guy made some real nice panels, he then wimped out and 
      screwed the door together rather than mortising it!  

-mark

    Yes, I agree, he really wimped out.  I was expecting him to drill
    and use wood dowels !  However, the jig he used to drill the holes
    was an excellent idea.
    
    
    Mark
    

     This Sunday I'm going to be putting an Atrium french door into
    the addition I'm building onto my house in Nashua, it is a 2 panel
    door and fairly heavy, I plan on having 3 to 4 people help me. 
    Other than caulking the sill plate, is there anything else I should
    do, any trick to putting one in that I should know about. It came
    with directions, but they are kind of vague.
    
    
    
    
    Royce

re:-1

Wood dowels?  Why not mortise and tenon joints?  If you're a Roy 
Underhill watcher, it's easier than you may think!

-mark

    I installed the same door in oak 2 weeks ago.  I assume yours is
    pine.  The pine door weighs 200 lbs, so you'll have no problem with
    3 or 4 people.  There's not much to it.  The door is nailed in 6
    places on the jamb.  The holes for the nails are sunk below the surface
    of the jamb, so once you nail them in you'll have a hard time removing
    them.  Don't nail them in all the way until you're all done.
                       
    BTW, I don't think Atrium makes French Doors.  I assume you have
    one fixed panel and one which swings.  French doors have two panels
    that swing to make an opening about 6 feet wide.
    

    
>     My question is does anyone 
> know of any similar cutters one can put on a table saw?  What is your 
> favorite method (if any) for raising panels?                           
    
    Generally if you can put a blade on a radial arm you can put it
    on a table saw of the same size.  I didn't see the show so I don't
    know exactly what he did but if you look at the Sears molding cutters
    they fit on both the radial arm and the table saws.
    
    I make raised panel doors all the time.  We use a shaper to make
    the mortise (it's a matched cutter set for the stile,rail and mutton.)
    Then a different cutter head for the panel.  Since shapers are
    expensive there are other methods.  There is a fixture that you
    can buy for a router to make the mortise and tendon joint for the
    stile and rail.  Then you can make the panel by tilting the blade
    of your table saw about 11 degrees and running the panel through
    it.  This will give a simple panel design.
    
    The cheapest way out (if it's only one project) is to take a
    woodworking course at a local high school and use the equipment
    there.
    
    Some tips about making panels.  A simple but joint is fine, no need
    to dowel.  When you glue up the stock, make sure that grains are
    in opposit directions (to avoid warping) and that the sections are
    no more that 4 or 5 inches wide.  Also make sure that the joint
    fits (no gaps) before you clamp it.  If you don't joint it evenly
    the glue joint will break over time.
    
    
    				KO

    I'd recommend sealing the threshold all around before you install the
    door with something like Cuprinol or Thompson's.  Unless Atrium has
    changed since I bought and installed mine in our bedroom, they don't
    finish (seal) the threshold at all.  It's a fairly critical component. 
    
    Pete

    I'm looking at putting in a Atrium door in the spring. Could you
    tell me where you bought it and how much?  Also, how about letting
    us know how it went putting it in?
    
    Thanks,
    Mike B.
    

I put one in around 5 years ago, though it wasn't the Atrium brand.  I had
a tight space to fill and rather than go with the standard 6 footer put in
a 5 footer.  Since this one had to be specially ordered it cost the same (or
maybe even more than the 6 footer which at the time was somewhere around
$500, but by now I'm sure that price has changed.

Putting it in was a piece of cake.  I started with a wall that had a window in
it one morning and by mid afternoon, the window was out and the door was in.
BUT -- staning those damn little removable sashes took forever!  I had to do the
inside one color to match the inside trim and the outside another color to match
the outside!  Then, I had to seal them...

-mark

    I put in a 6 foot Atrium door in about an hour.  Of course, this
    was in new construction, so putting it in just consisted of 
    sealing the bottom and hammering in a couple nails.
    I paid $905 including tax at Sommerville lumber for the oak door.
    I think the pine door in that size is about $250 less.  The prices
    are always in the Sommerville Lumber ad in the Sunday Globe.  I've
    never seen the doors go on sale.
    

One tip I learned the hard way relates to siding.
    
    If you are just replacing an old sliding door, the instruction are
    fine.
    
    But if you are putting in a door in a solid wall you need to consider
    the thickness of the siding plus the wall. I didn't and paid the
    price.                                                      
                                                                
    Here's an example:  The door frame on mine is about 4 1/2 inches deep.
    That means that it will fit in a wall with a 2x4 (3.5"), 1/2"
    of sheetrock, and 1/2" of plywood.
                      
    When I cut my hole in the siding and plywood, I did not think about
    the 3/4" of siding, so the door fram sits on the outside of the
    siding. As a result, my door frame had to be extended by 3/4"
    on the inside to line up with the sheetrock.
                         
    What I should have done was to cut a bigger hole in the siding and
    set the door frame in flush with the siding.
                         
So, I suggest that you check the depth of your door frame and wall
before you shove that sucker in!!!!
                         

    
    Good luck!

    That's what they make extension jambs for.  
    
    By "siding" do you mean clapboards or what?  When you realized
    what you should have done, why didn't you cut the bigger hole in
    the siding, like you said? 
     

    I'm putting the door into a 14X18 addition I'm adding to my house
    so I don't have to worry about the siding, I haven't got the invoice
    yet for the door, I have a contractors account with Grossmans and
    the receipts I get at the yard don't have the price, It's the door
    I wanted, so what the hell.... I do have to lift the door about
    2 1/2 feet to the R.O., but I have a set of pump jacks which I'll
    put the door on and then raise the jacks put. I fell the instructions
    could be a little bit easier to follow, but no matter what, it's
    going in on Sunday, then I can get the addition inspected and start
    the wireing plumbing and the siding. I might even finish it some
    year....
    
    
    
    Royce

    re: .7
    
1. Yes siding=clapboards.
  
2.  I did not see the problem until the unit was in place, nailed and
    glued! And at that point I decided that a jam extenstion would be
    easier than removing the @#*& door.
    
I only brought this up because there might be ONE other DIY who would
not think of this problem! :-)
    
    g~

    re radial arm vs table saw for raised panels.
    
    The beauty of a radial arm for this kind of operation is that the
    assembly can be flipped 90 degrees so that the plane of the blade
    is parallel to earth rather than perpendicular. This means that
    the entire door panel is resting flat on table surface when cutting rather
    than just only  3/4" for a table saw. This latter is relatively
    unstable, and probable rather more dangerous. Have never tried raising
    a panel with a radial saw, but its kind of tricky with a table saw.

We have been looking at terrace doors (only one of two doors open) and 
have looked closely at the Atrium and the Marvin brands.  Both are high 
quality, but the Marvin comes in low E glass (which I don't believe 
that the Atrium has as yet), and there are a few other features worth 
considering as well.  At present we plan to get the Marvin.  (You can 
look at the Marvin terrace door at Jackson Lumber in Lawrence MA.)

Alex

    
    Well, I with the help of a friend,  put the door in Sunday morning,
    it went fairly well, the biggest problem was getting the door out
    of my garage, because with all the junk in it, the door was hard
    to manuver. Once I removed the shipping blocks from the door, I
    put on the vapor barrier on the sill, the sill by the way is sealed
    at the factory with a marine quality polyurithane (sp?). Once this
    was done, I caulked the subfloor and we lifted the door into place,
    made sure it was plumb and them drove the 6 screws thru both jambs
    about 1/2 way, then with the small wooden wedge included with the
    door, the door was squared and then the screws were tightened. The
    whole thing took about 45 minutes, this included putting in the
    lockset. The door works perfectly and does not stick, I think the
    important thing to installing it is to make sure that the gap between
    the top of the door and the head jamb is the recommended 1/8". I
    did also have to shim the side jambs a little with shingles..
    
    Well now it's time to get the thing inspected!!!!
    
    
    
    Royce

    RE: Raised panels on a table saw.
    
    .4 posed a point relative to the safety of cutting raised panels
    on a table saw.
    
    I assume this was a reference to the "angled cut" falling into the
    opening between the blade and blade access cover. One thing that
    I've found works well, is to fabricate another cover to fit the
    opening out of wood instead of steel. I made mine out of 1/4"
    plywood, with a stiffening board underneath.
    
    Once it was cut and fitted, I simply lowered the blade, placed the
    new "cover" in place, started up the saw and raised the blade cutting
    through the cover. This results in a very tight opening around the 
    blade as opposed to the standard opening which is designed "wide" to 
    allow extreme [45 degrees] angle cuts. 
    
    I cut my raised panels at 10 degrees and leave approximately 1/4"
    at the tang and since my modification have had no problems. When
    doing greater than 10 degree cuts, I simply swap out the cover for
    the old steel one.
    
    Hope this helps,
    Charlie

    .5 is a *clever* solution to part of my warning in .4. (would also
    work for a dado blade and save good bucks from alternative of buying
    a separate dado insert cover.
    
    The other item I was trying to communicate is the inherent instability
    of cutting -say- an 18" * 24" door while it is being pushed through
    the blade on merely a 3/4" wide surface. The door can wobble a lot -even on
    a good 10" delta contracter with its precision rip guide-, and fingers
    can get awful close to the blade. 
    
    			herb

    
    

    And how about if one is raising panels on both sides of a piece
    of wood an inch thick
    It was a little dicey! Certainly can be done and lots of woodworkers do it
    
    but a shaper or router is much better!
    (and lots more expensiv, if you already have the table saw.
    
    
    			herb

    I've successfully made raised panels using a moulding head with
    straight cutters on the table saw. The moulding head is tilted at
    the appropriate angle and the panel is layed flat on the table with
    the fence as a guide. It is a little restrictive because the cutter
    I used was only an inche wide, but I didn't have to worry about
    passing the panel through on edge.
    
    Nick

Well, I finally started the panels (or at least a scrap one to prove I 
could do it).  Here's what I did...

First I agree that you cannot use the normal rip fence because it's too 
short.  A while ago I had made a "fence" to use with my band saw by 
simply fastening 2 boards together at a 90 degree angle with the verticle one
about 6" high.  The length of it is probably around 8-10 inches.

			+-+
			| |
			| |\
			| | \
			| |\ \ <----brace
			| | \ \
			| |  \ \
			| |   \ \
			+-------------+
			+-------------+

Now, to cut the panel simply clamp the board to the this and run it 
against the fence.  To do both sides would also be a breeze.

The only problem now is that after cutting, the surface is fairly rough 
and needs to be sanded.  Sanding the end grain doesn't seem to provide a 
very good fininsh and it drinks the stain, making things rather darker 
than the rest of the panel.

-mark

Re: -1

Almost forgot.  This thing works great for cutting tenons as well.  Just 
clamp a board t oit and run it over the saw.  Work great!

-mark

    You can create the panel by hand using a rabbet/fillaster plane
    and a bench plane.   While somewhat time consuming, the finished
    surface is generally ready to stain without sanding.  Specialty
    planes for panel raising can also be purchased from Garrett-Wade
    in New York.  Provided you do not touch the plane blade (cutter)
    there is little chance of injury.
    
    

      after 9 months, the contractor have finally gotten the foundation
    correct (3rd time is always a charm!!), and are ready to start framing.
    they are only putting the shell together. i will finish the room.
    
      i am having an opening framed for a slider to be added later.
    i am covering it for now since it will be 2 years till i extend
    my deck, and it is a looooong way down. My wife is now convinced
    she needs french doors instead. So my question is this:
    
     is the opening for a standard french door the same as a standard
    slider, and should i ask for any special framing to be done now
    to make the frame stiffer?
    
    thanks 
    john

    If when you say 'French Door' you really mean an Atrium Swing door
    with fixed panel, then the rough open is 80-5/8" high and the 
    available widths are 48-1/4", 60-1/4", 66, and 72-1/4".  The most
    common in the largest.  True French doors have 2 swinging doors
    that open from the middle with no fixed post between the doors.
    You don't need any special framing for doors that you wouldn't
    need for sliders.  
    I would advise putting in the doors now and nailing them
    shut.  (or something like that).  It will be a lot easier
    than trying to retrofit a door once the outside siding and inside
    lathing is finished.

    Does anyone out there know of a good source to purchase French doors?
    
    Thanks.
    
    Connie
    
    

    Sommerville Lumber sells Morgan French Doors assembled by Brosco.
    Those are good quality doors.  They also sell a cheaper quality
    French Door which is made by a manufacturer I never heard of.
    Anderson doesn't make French doors.  But Pella does.  Pella
    and Morgan French doors are about $1300.  The cheap one at 
    sommerville was about $700, I think.
    

    
    A company in Concord NH, New England Eagle Products sells
    an excellent quality French Door.  It is wood on the inside and
    Vinal clad on the outside. Very low maintenance.  The door sells
    for around $700.  It can also be fitted with screens and wood grills
    if you need them.  This company manufactures excellent quality windows
    and doors at a much better price than Anderson or Morgan.

We installed Marvin terrace (French) doors late last year. The quality is
excellent; Well made, air tight, double-paned, etc. The cost was somewhere
between $600.00 - $700.00, and they were purchased at Lancaster/Sterling
Lumber Co. in Sterling, MA (although MARVIN products must be distributed by
other lumber companies as well).

Before buying I checked the displays at Somerville Lumber in Westboro and
Webber Lumber in Worcester; The quality of the Marvin door was better than
those in a comparable price range at either of these places.

This can be ordered with or without exterior vinyl/primer, grills, screens,
and storm panels (for Winter use).

Russ

    Brewsters gives a flat %25 off the catolog price on things like
    this. They were the cheapest about when I purchased one. If you
    are thinking about buying the thermopane FD by Brosco, I recommend
    you have a look at it first. I was going to buy it but then by chance
    happened to see one and decided against it.

    Does anyone know of a company which makes or imports "European"
    style doors, both French style and regular, which open out instead
    of opening in??  
    
    Ric

We are planning to remodel the living room and hallways in our three
bedroom split level.  One of the items on our list is to replace the really
cheapo interior doors with something better.  Before we start this DIY
project, I'd really appreciate some advice from all you experts:

o Where is a good place to buy interior doors of reasonable quality in
  the Nashua, Pepperil, Acton, etc., area?

o What is the level of difficulty involved for someone with basic carpentry
   skills, but no experience with installing doors?

o Any helpful hints to make the job go faster and keep me out of trouble?

Thanks for your help!

Joe M.

There's a great place for buying doors and windows in Nashua.  It's a sort of 
seconds outfit for a couple of local millwork shop, kind of like a Filene's 
basement.  You need to inspect the doors carefully, but you can get some very 
good deals there.  You may have a tough time if you are trying to fit some off-
size door openings, but if they are standard sizes, you ought to be able to 
get what you need in a couple of trips.

I don't remember the exact name, but they are in behind the Simoneau Plaza on 
Main street.  You take the street just north of the plaza, (It almost seems 
more like an alley than a street) and then take your first right (after the 
side entrance to the plaza).  That road will wind among some industrial 
buildings, and eventually will turn sharp left.  The place is on the right just 
after that.  The name is something like 'Homeowner's warehouse'.

Pre-hung doors, especially the split-jamb type with the molding already 
applied, are extremely simple to put in.  Basically just stand the door in the 
opening and shim to fit, then nail it in. (simplified)

Paul

>    There's a great place for buying doors and windows in Nashua.  
    
    How much are 6 panel pine doors there?  Either hung or unhung.
    
    I've been getting doors at Grossman's Bargain Outlet.  If you only
    need a small number you can usually pick thru their garbage and
    find a first quality one there.  I recently got 6 panel oak doors
    for $100 each for a 2'6" door.
    The same size pine doors are $50. (Unhung).
    
    

>    o Any helpful hints to make the job go faster and keep me out of trouble?


    Sure.  Buy them pre-hung with a split jamb. Even the casing is already
    on them.  
    

    You best check the door for level in at least three places - the
    top, the frame on the inside (doorside) and the wall side (many
    walls are not level. 

    I got the impression you were looking for doors only, not jambs
    and all which is what you get with pre-hung and split jamb doors
    mentioned in previous replies.  Reply .4 makes the most important
    point about potential problems.  The existing doors may have been
    cut out of square or planed to fit in openings out of plumb.  Try
    taking a framing square and holding it in the corners as well as
    checking the opening with a level.  If the square fits snugly and
    the opening is reasonaly plumb you should have a minimum of problems.
    If not and you still want to go ahead, try removing the old door
    and taking off the knobs and laying it on top of the new door. 
    Mark any spots you need to remove and cut or plane them off.  If
    cutting with a skillsaw, try scoring the cut line with a knife to
    keep the door from splintering (keep the blade on the waste side
    of the line).  The splinters probably wouldn't look bad until you
    stained the door, if that's your intention.  
    When cut to fit, try and wedge the door into the opening with wood
    shingles, or just prop the bottom up a bit to mark the hinges. 
    I'd recommend a router for the hinge mortices.  A chisel will work
    if you have all day.

Re: .5:

Actually, I was planning on replacing both the jambs and the door.  Sounds
like pre-hung doors are the way to go.  Thanks for all the suggestions!

We had the unpleasant situation in which we couldn't get into my wife's
rental property, even though we had the key.

We ended up having to break a small glass door pane and reach in and unlock
the door.

It turns out, the key went to one lock, but the other has no key.

The troublesome lock looks like a bathroom door lock.  It has a round
hole on the outside.

So I had attempted to push a nail in the hole and unlock it that way.
But no go.

When we finally got in, I saw that the inner door knob didn't have the small
button like the ones that I usually am successful in unlocking with a nail.

Instead, the inner knob itself could be pushed in and turned, which would
lock it.

So, my question is, does anyone know what sort of tool can be used to
unlock this sort of knob from outside ?  There must be *some* purpose for
that little hole on the outer knob !

If there's no answer, we'll probably end up replacing the entire knob, so
that the realtor showing the house doesn't get locked out too.

Thanks for any info.

/Eric

    It certainly does sound like the "bathroom door lock".  The "key"
    is a flat-tipped piece of metal/hard plastic.  A narrow blade
    screwdriver will work just fine.
    
    Double check this by looking inside the little hole, you should
    see a slot for the "key".
    
    Let us know what you find.

Those bathroom door locks come with a little universal key that you can
use if some how the bathroom door gets locked from the inside (emergency?).
Usually you put them some place where you'll never find them again should
you need it.  I think .1 is correct in that a small screw driver should 
work.

    After a bathroom remodeling job I found the carpenter had left a
    funny "flat tipped nail" on top of the molding over the bathroom
    door.  It's still there but it probably won't be when we need it.
    It's at least worth a try to leave one over the door it may be needed
    for.                                                          

    If that is your new rental property, I strongly suggest you invest
    a few bucks and change all the locks and have several set of keys
    made.
    

Thanks for the suggestions.

I'll try a small screwdriver with shank narrow enough to get in hole.

I did try to look in, even with flashlight.  Too dark to see.

I couldn't find any little tab on side of knob to push with screwdriver
to take knob off.  In past, that has worked on other doors.

The suggestion about merely changing the lock is probably worth it.

/Eric

    If this knob is as cheap as it sounds, it may not have a bolt to
    prevent it from being opened from the outside. That is a small rod
    that hits the door jamb when the latch enters the strike and locks
    the latch so it can't be depressed. It looks like this:
    
           edge of    |
            door ---->|
                      |-------.
                      |       | <-- latch
    KNOB              |-------|
                      |-------|
                      |   ^   |
                      |---|---'
                      |   |
                      | bolt
                      |
    
    If there is a latch with no bolt, it's quite simple to jimmy the
    lock by inserting a credit card or other thin, stiff object between
    the door and the jamb and forcing the latch to depress. Of course,
    if it's that easy for you, it will be just as easy for anybody else.
    
    - your friendly prowler    

    If this is a rental property that you intend to keep for a few years,
    you might consider getting a "replacable cylinder" entry set (knobs
    and locks).  On these locks, the business end of the keyhole is
    a replacable cylinder.  The cylinders can be removed to be rekeyed
    by a locksmith (an easy and inexpensive way to change the "locks")
    or simply swapped out for replacement cylinders. 
    
    I use Falcon brand ($30-$40 last time I had to get a new knob,
    $22 a couple days back for a deadbolt), nothing fancy but probably
    an upgrade for what you've got.  I think the cylinders were going
    for $14 last summer.

    
    bd

    I havn't yet met a lock in which the cylinders could NOT be removed
    for re-keying by a locksmith.  And in principle, you could just
    buy a new cylinder for most any lock.
    
    The significant thing about "replaceable cylinder" locks may be
    that the manufacturer chooses to arket the cylinders separately.

Is he talking about the style of lock where the cylinder is externally 
removable without any disassembly?  The popular one of these is "BEST," 
you'll see them in Digital facilities everywhere.  

While we're on the subject - I want to buy/install 2 double-cylinder 
deadbolt locks, that use the same key.  Trying to find 2 with matching 
keys at SPAGs failed - what's the next cheapest way?
	
		thanx	/j

                Most any good hardware store can sell you locks keyed
        alike. Usually they will need to rework the tumblers in them,
        but the extra you pay to get that service is worth it. If you
        are buying enough locks, they may not even charge you extra for
        the service. (I bought 5, 2 deadbolts and key-in-knobs with no
        extra charge. I did have to come back the next day for them.)
                
                /s/     Bob

    Re: .10
    
      You might want to try Zayre.  When I was looking for locks, I
    found that Zayre had a better selection (at least of what I was
    looking for) and competitive prices.  The brands were different
    but are still name brands.  I ended up getting Yale.  I'm not sure
    what you mean by double-cylinder so I can't say if I saw those or
    not.  I needed true deadbolts for my insurance policy.  Even with
    deadbolts, if someone wants to get in...they will.
    
    -Jim
    

    Double-cylinder locks are locks that require the use of a key on
    both sides of the door. The police in our area told me that they
    recommend the use of double-cylinder locks even more than alarm
    systems for home security. This is because burglars don't really
    want to just get INTO your house, they also want to get OUT. That
    is, it really doesn't help them much to crawl in through a window
    or something, because they need some easy way of getting things
    like stereos and TV's out of the house. If they can't get the door
    open from the inside, they won't have any easy way to get out, and
    therefore won't be able to take much. Also, if you have any windows
    on or near your door, and you don't have a double-cylinder lock,
    it's quite easy for them to break the glass, reach in, and open
    the door.
    
    By the way, I bought some double cylinder deadbolts last year at
    Robinson's (True Value) Hardware in Hudson very cheap. They were
    packaged as a pair of bolts for $19.99. You usually pay almost twice
    that for one lock (they were also keyed the same). They weren't the
    best possible quality, but they did have hardened steel bolts. Other
    features to look for in a lock are screws that can't be removed once
    they are tightened and exterior casings that can't be drilled through.
    
    Of course, it has been pointed out that if somebody really wants
    to get in, they will, no matter what you put on the door (we could
    get into a discussion of steel doors, reinforced glass, inflexible
    door jambs, window locks, etc.). However, most burglars are looking
    for an easy catch, and they are more likely to pass on anything
    that looks like too much work.
    
    - Ram

>    Double-cylinder locks are locks that require the use of a key on
>    both sides of the door. The police in our area told me that they
>    recommend the use of double-cylinder locks even more than alarm
>    systems for home security. ...

    
      So that's what those are called.  I agree about the added security
    but was advised against them by METPAY because of the fire hazard
    if you have to get out and don't have the key handy.  I hadn't thought
    of that but it made me realize that I didn't want them.  The insurance
    requirement was only that I have deadbolts.
    
    -Jim
    

    That's true, they can be a fire hazard. What we do is leave the
    key in the lock on the inside when we are at home, and take it out
    and lock the door when we are going out. If you make it a habit
    to put the key back in the lock when you come in it will always
    be there in an emergency. If you can't discipline yourself to do
    this, then it is probably better not to use double cylinders, because
    as you say, you could be in real trouble in an emergency.
    
    - Ram

Do we have a note on door manufacturers (I suspect there's something 
somewhere!).  I'm looking for some sliders and wanted to go with Anderson.
However, a trip to the lumber yard told me they only make sliders in Vinyl
clad and I want real wood.  As an option Morgan was recommended and I know they
have a good reputation for entry doors but I know nothing of their quality for
sliders.

Comments?

How about other manufacturers?

-mark

    
    I have plywood doors throughout my house, that need to be cleaned,
    refinished  or something. Does anyone have any suggestions on what
    I should use? I also would like to give them all a nice shine if
    possible. Thanks.....

    Are these your standard, interior hollow-core doors? Have they been
    painted/stained/varnished?

    Yes, they are the standard hollow-core doors, and yes they have
    been stained brown.

    I'm in the same boat.  I think my doors are original (about 35 years
    old) and appear to have a varnish over a stain.  I was going to
    lightly sand the doors and apply one or two coats of polyurethane.
    Can polyurethane be applied over varnish (or whatever it is)?  Or
    will I be ruining the door?

    re .2: Stains on the stain? Assuming you've tried the obvious (mild
    detergent and water, paint thinner) and the stain is still stained,
    the door has apparently not been sealed (varnished). In that situation,
    I believe the only thing you can do is try a darker stain to hide the
    stains. (You can try bleaching the stains, but you'll probably wind
    up with a decor popular in the late 60's, called "tie-dyed blotch";
    of course, if the door is bad enough, you may have nothing to lose
    in the attempt.)
    
    After getting out the stains (or buying a new door panel and becoming
    quite adept with a chisel and large-hole drill), you'll want to
    seal it properly. To do this, apply three coats of a good interior
    polyurethane (ZAR satin finish is my favorite; use a gloss finish
    if you want to see yourself, and every imperfection in the door).
    If you're doing lots of doors, now is a great time to hang them
    all in the basement and use a spray gun. Before sealing, sand the
    entire door with fine (150) paper, using a sanding block; this will
    remove all the little wood fibers that stood at attention when you
    applied the stain (failure to do this will leave billllions of tiny
    dust shelves on your door). Also sand lightly between coats.

    re .3: I don't recall having any trouble poly'ing over an old (unknown)
    wood finish (try the bottom foot of the inside of a closet door
    to be sure). Yes, sand first, and touch up scratches with a
    stain-soaked rag, then one or two coats of poly to the desired finish.

    Try Marvin....they make windows...and wood sliders.
    
    john

My mother had a porch added to her house that has four Morgan wood 
sliders on it.  They're a nice door if you like sliders.  Solid 
construction, good feel, good looking.   If you don't like sliders, 
there are the "atrium doors" that fit in the same hole as sliders, but 
have a hinged door.  I have one of those at home (made by an outfit 
called "Peachtree" I think it was.)  In either case, the wood doors look 
nicer than the aluminum ones, feel better when they operate and are a 
little warmer in the winter.  
					>>>==>PStJTT

    I believe there is a double cylinder dead bolt on the market
    that if you lock the door from the inside cylinder then you
    can not remove the key.  Can't remember the brand right now
    but if some one really wants to know...  contact me or leave
    a note here.
    
    Mr. Vault,
    
    Gerry
    

    Re: removable cylinders,  
    
    Most locks have cylinders that can be removed and modified or 
    replaced by a locksmith (although this may not be worthwhile for 
    the cheapest locks).  But the locks referred to by the term 
    "removable cylinder" allow the owner of the lock to easily remove 
    the cylinder with a "control key".  The control key does not unlock 
    the lock (that is, it will not cause the cylinder to throw the bolt 
    or latch).  The control key can only be used to physically remove 
    the cylinder from the lockset or knobset. 
    
    If you have a situation where you expect to frequently "change the
    locks" (such as a rental property)  it's easier to simply swap
    cylinders with the control key than remove the entire lockset
    and cheaper to keep a couple of different cylinders around than
    to pay a locksmith to rekey that lockset each time you need it changed.
    
    

    Anybody know what a "rabbit" refers to when talking
    about doors?
    
    Thanks,
    George Darcy

    	The word is rabbet.  I don't know how it pertains to doors exactly
    but a rabbet is a joining cut.  You rabbet cut a piece of wood so
    that another piece can be joined to it.  I know this does little
    to answer your question.  Sorry.

    It's "rabbet", I assume, and according to my handy-dandy dictionary
    it's "a groove or cut made in the edge of a board etc. in such a
    way that another piece may be fitted into it to form a joint."
    
    Similar to a "dado" which, interestingly enough, the dictionary
    thinks is a piece of a column (as in a building column).
    
    I've always thought of rabbets as having only one side, and dados
    having two:
    
    rabbet			 dado
     V 	    _____________________  V    _________________________
    	    |			|	|			|
    ________|			|_______|			|
    |								|
    |___________________________________________________________|

    Rabbets are usually associated with doos when you're talking about
    cabinet doors.  A rabbet provides the overlap around the edge of
    the door for appearance.

    A Rabbet is the cut or groove along the edge of a piece of wood
    that allows a nothe piece of wood to fit into it to form a joint.
    These joints are commonly used on drawers to keep them from separating
    from the constant pressure of opening and closing. They are also
    used to make door casings by joining several shorter pieces of wood
    rather than using full boards.
    
       
      
       
      
       

    The previous replies were correct descriptions of the term "rabbet",
    but don't really answer your specific question in regard to doors.
    
    Rabbet is commonly used in regard to doors to refer to setting the
    hinges into the edge. A "rabbet" is cut into the edge, typically
    with a chisel or a router, to permit the face of the hinge to lie
    flush with the edge of the door. The frame is also rabbeted to accept
    the other leaf of the hinge.

    Rabbets may also be cut to accomodate other hardware, such as latches
    and locksets.

    Sorry .-1 but when you 'let in' hinges in a door and frame it's
    called a mortise.
    
    Don't really know how the term rabbet is applied to a door unless
    it's the rabbet style joint in the frame that the door sets into.
    But that's not really a rabbet either.  There is a strip called
    a 'door stop' that attached to the door frame to stop the door from
    moving any further.  It may look like a rabbet.

    I have a Stanley steel door that provides access into my basement
    through a "doghouse" kind of structure. It's similar to a bulkhead
    entrance but with full size door "80 x 32". The problem is that
    the door will not swing completly open. It is about a half inch
    too wide so it hits up against the inside wall before it can swing
    completly open.
    
    Are there any kind of special hinges that I could install which
    would give me the half inch or so that I need. I seem to recall
    seeing some featured in an old Popular Science mag some time ago,
    but can't find that issue. I know there are hinges that will "raise"
    a door as it swings. Any one know of one that will solve my problem?
    
    Thanks,
    Jack

    I needed the same hinges about 5 years ago so that a door would
    lift as it was opened over some carpet.  I did 50% of the research
    and found that hinge articles refer to "rising butt hinges" as though
    they're commonly available.
    
    I never did look for them because we sold the house, but you may
    be able find them now that you know what they're called in the trade.
    
    Pete

    Can anyone tell me where in the Nashua, NH or Burlington, MA areas
    I could get sliding doors for a closet?  Bifold doors won't fit,
    alas (closet opening is 2 inches too narrow for two 24-inch bifold
    doors).
							-- Nina

    
    	I just built an addition with a closet and searched for different
    sliding doors. What I found was that you can purchase them anywhere,
    I got mine at Moores of Leominster. I also found that sliders come
    in standard sizes the same as normal doors do, no odd sizes. From
    your note I take it that the R/O is about 46". My sliders are mirrored
    glass 48" ones. But wait !!!!!!! When you get the instructions out
    and the tape stick you will read and find that the tracks are longer
    then they are supposed to be and the instructions say to cut them
    to size. When I was done I found that my tracks were about 47".
    Now that I think you your problem I realize that you could cut a
    foot off and still be ok. Instead of exposing 2 24" glass doors
    you would be exposing 2 18" doors as an example.
    
    	-Steve-
     

    Check the prices ar Brewster's in Wilmington. You can also consider
    bi-fold. If you are put in two doors and need to pick uo two inches,
    you can cut 1/2" off each side off each door. Even flush doors leave
    enough room to cut them down that much.
    
    

    Plywood Ranch across RT 3 from the Nashua Mall has a very big selection
    of sliders and bifolds.
    
    Be careful cutting down the width on solid doors.  They're usually
    not just solid boards, and you can end up exposing all types of joints 
    lying beneath the surface.

    Thanks for your suggestions.  I don't really want to have to deal with
    cutting down the doors.  I figured sliders could overlap a little,
    which doesn't bother me.
						-- Nina

    I did mean to measure the door this morning, but I didn't have the
    time to find my tape measure. Maybe it was 54 inches! I did notice
    at the time, at K-MART in Leominster had a few more sizes and better
    prices then at the local Grossmans and lumber yards. Try calling
    around first. This K-MART is the largest I've seen. I was amazed
    at what they carried for home improvements(for a K-mart).
    
      Also, (last resort) if you do talk with a local lumber yard, they
    may have a suggestion(usually not what you want). Most yards are equipt
    with shops that can make a fast change at little or no cost at all. I
    once had a hollow door made up for an attic opening that mearsured
    around 24X54. They did it with the door knob hole to my specs. I
    payed between $5 to $8 more then a standard door. The door was
    ready in within two days.
    
    
    Alan (Who_measures_once_then_cuts_twices!)

    Thanks.  I'll check around and see what I can come up with.

						-- Nina

We have an old house that has brass door knobs in every room.  About a 
year ago, we polished most of them and they looked wonderful.  However, 
they are now looking very tarnished again.

I've heard that there is some kind of lacquer or shellac that can be
put on brass to prevent it from tarnishing.  Has anyone had any
experience with this?  In particular: 

o  Will it hold up to the daily use that a door knob gets?  That is,
   will it eventually chip off and look worse than tarnished brass? 

o  Can you recommend a brand or type of lacquer/shellac?

o  Is is better to spray it on or to use a paint brush?

o  Is one coat of the lacquer/shellac adequate?

Thanks for any help.
Pat

    I tried using some kind of finish on brass once (don't remember
    what kind). It looked ok for a while but then tarnished under the
    finish!
    
    I remember when I was a kid helping with the maintenance of a church.
    It had lot's and lot's of brass door knobs etc. We had to polish
    them once a week. I suspect that was what was done with the original
    ones in your house.
    
    It's not a big job to keep them polished after you get them good
    and clean once.
    
    Sorry I couldn't help more!
    
    /tb/
    

    I'm not sure you can do much with doorknobs that get used.  You
    could try putting lacquer on them, but I'm afraid it would wear
    off fairly easily.  Still, no big deal to give it a try.  If it
    doesn't work you can always try something else.
    The kind of lacquer probably doesn't matter much.  "Deft" is one
    brand, I think.  You could either buy it in a spray can and spray
    on a THIN coat, or buy a can of it and dip the knobs.  If you dip
    the knobs you'd probably want to thin the lacquer first, maybe as
    much as 2:1, but I really don't know as I've never tried to do this.
    You'd just have to experiment.
    Before putting on the lacquer the brass will have to be ***CLEAN***,
    which probably means:
    	1) polishing
    	2) washing in hot, soapy water
    	3) rinsing in boiling water to remove all traces of soap
    and, of course...hands off!!!
    

    Re: one coat or not
    
    All you need to prevent tarnishing is a very thin coat of lacquer.
    The thinner it is the better it will look, too.  A thicker coat will
    of course stand up to use better, but if the coat gets too thick
    you'll end up with door knobs that look as though they've been
    covered with a coat of lacquer, and over time it may tend to get
    a little cloudy.
    
    I don't think I'd try to put on lacquer with a paint brush - it
    dries too fast.  The only really good way to put on lacquer is
    to spray it, or in this case I think you'd have pretty good luck
    dipping the knobs.  You CAN put drying inhibitors in lacquer to
    make it more amenable to brushing, but I'm afraid you'd still
    end up with a doorknob that looked as though it had been painted
    with a paintbrush.

    All modern knobs have some kind of lacquer coating.  I noticed that
    it has all peeled off my front doorknob on the side exposed to the
    sun.
    
    Here is a different idea.  Try polishing the knobs with car wax.
    It won't last as long as lacquer but it might be worth a try.  Then
    if you don't like the effect it is not as permanent as lacquer.

    
    	Try clear acrylic spray. Goes on very clear and in thin coats.
    I've used it on brass screws and such but never on a door knob.
    I believe acetone will remove the acrylic if you dont like the
    results. You might want to try this on door knob that can be
    replaced.

I bet polyureathane (sp?) would work great for this.  I'm going to try it 
on all of my old fixtures.


...bill

    Re: .6
    
      I haven't tried this but I bet that it would work also.  I don't
    know if all polyurethane's have the same properties but the automotive
    polyurethanes have some resiliency as well as excellent strength.
    Let us know how it works out.
    
    -Jim
    

    What is a good way to get the original lacquer off? On my front
    door, small sections have worn off and the brass has tarnished.
    In order to clean and polish the bass I need to remove the clear
    finish. (I remember way back when that you had to rub like hell
    to remove the clear finish of my old Army brass before you could
    attack it with Brasso).
    
    M2
    

    Re: removing old finish
    
    Probably lacquer thinner - you can buy it in pint cans, maybe even
    half-pint cans, which should be all you'd need.  Lacquer dissolves
    readily in the proper solvent.
    Be careful with the stuff though, it's highly volatile and flammable
    Use with good ventilation, etc.
    
    Assuming it IS lacquer.....

    I used polyurethane on an old floor lamp from my mothers house.
    First I cleaned, and buffed using elbow grease then, sprayed poly.
    Done over a year ago, it still looks great. 
    
    I often wondered how it would work on a door knob. Let us know what
    you use.

    I read an article in The Old House Journal which recommended using
    tung oil in order to prolong the shine on polished brass.  it was
    more complicated than just polishing then oiling, but is supposed to
    work well.  Tung oil is supposed to be different than other oils
    in regard to volitility and drying (don't remember the details),
    but if anyone wants to give it a try on a piece or two, send me
    mail and I will copy the article.
    
    I don't get a chance to read the conference every day, so to be
    sure to get me, send mail to ;
    
    DRUID::MEANEY

    
    Jim

	I really would advise against laquer or polyurethane on the 
	doorknobs.  They get subjected to too much abuse and they are
	guaranteed to get scratched.  If you think they look bad now,
	just picture them with tarnish in all of the scratches and a 
	dull finish everywhere else.  I have a new brass knob in my 
	old house and it came laquered.  It looks like hell now.
	I'm not looking forward to removing it and stripping the laquer
	from all of the nooks and crannies.

	OHJ is a real good source of advise on these things.  I'd try 
	a limited experiment on a couple of knobs with the tung oil
	and see how it works.  Tung oil is a LOT easier to remove than
	laquer or polyurethane.  

    Wow! Something I know about!
       I was a professional door-knob polisher for Schlage lock's custom
    products division for two years, and here's the way its done:
    
    Polish till it's like a mirror, degrease it well, then spray with
    a good quality laquer. Several coats is advisable. As stated before,
    HANDS OFF! You can use acetone for the degrease step.     
    
    BUT!!
    
    If your worried about scratches, fading, or milking of the laquer,
    simply follow the steps above, but dont spray the knob. If you 
    do the finish work on the eschution ( the plate or ring that the
    knob comes out of or through ) and spray it, it will last pretty
    well, as its not a high-use spot. And its surely worth the while
    to do a simple hand polish with a cloth on the knobs themselves
    once a week, they will aquire a nice patina but retain the shine.
    
    Hope this helps!
    
    Colorado Bob

    Any suggestions how to remove paint splatters from newly-installed
    lacqured brass door hardware without removing the lacquer as well?
    
    
    
    

    You might try benzine as the solvent.  I have used it to remove
    tar and adhesives from cars, and it didn't affect the automotive
    lacquer.

    
       I would like to add my two cents, for what it's worth. I just
    purchased 6 Panel Pine sliding doors for two closets in my home,
    one of which had the same problem as yours 2" smaller than standard
    size. I found more doors than you could imagine at Northeast discount
    center in Nashua N.H., on Rte101-A, next to the Stove Barn, near
    Amhearst. The 4 doors and the 4' slider assemblys cost me $200.00,
    not a bad price. They also have a large supply of bi-fold doors
    in various sizes. You may find a few scratches here and there, but
    if you look carefully you can find perfect ones. Its well worth
    the time. They also have a large supply of exterior doors and windows.
    Hope this helps.
    
    
                                                   --Dick

    RE: .14,
       Try a "soft" scraper, something like a piece of plexiglass, or
    even a piece of hard wood. This is only if its actual drops, not
    if its smeared on. If its smeared on, try removing it and testing
    different solvents on the back, these things usually have some laquer
    residue on the unseen side that you could try a solvent on to see
    if it affects them both.
    
    C.B.

    
    Does anybody have anymore information on this "Homeowners Warehouse"
    in Nashua?? Is this really the name of the place or is it something
    else?? Are there any other places in Southern N.H. that I could
    go to look at doors?? We're replacing 8 doors in our house and would
    like to find the best deal possible. Does anybody know if Bingham
    Lumber in Brookline carries doors?? Any help would be appreciated.
    
    Patty

    There is a place out on 101A in Amherst called 'Northeast Salvage'.
    This guy advertises 'Over 10,000 doors in stock'. It is next to
    the Stove Barn/Wicker Warehouse. When I needed a 1920's vintage
    oak door, he sold me one for $25. I've also been to homeowners
    but NS has more doors. Most of his doors are new by the way.
    He also told me about a place in Manchester that is supposed to
    be salvage heaven. I can't remember the name though.
    
    Tim
    

    
    Thanks for the help. I just called Homeowners and Northeast just
    bought them out. I'll be going to Northeast this weekend.
    
    Patty

    Does anyone know where I can find door hinges which actually raise
    the door in order to clear rugs, etc?  I have read about them in
    various places, but trips to several hardware stores have resulted
    in "yeah they do exist" but no leads.
    
    Thanks in advance for all help.

    Constantine's woodworking Catalog has what you are looking
    for, they are called "rising butt hinges".. they cost $8.95
    for a pair. (4") Give them a call and ask for a copy of their
    catalog...
    
    Constantine
    2050 Eastchester Road
    Bronx, N.Y. 10461
    1-800-223-8087

    getting back to replacing (door only) existing interior doors--
    
    bought 10 hollow 6 panel doors (24-30 inch) from Mr. Goodbuys here
    in Jersey for $29 each
    
    am replacing all the interior doors in a 40 year old house.  also
    replacing all old hinges with nice bright brass ones.
    
    PROBLEMS:
    
    1.	not only are openings not square, but old doors do not fit
    	right - some have great gaps (1/4")
    
    2.	old hinges are thicker than new and some old hinges had
    	shims in back - cannot just put in new hinges because
    	new door will hit doorstop moldings
    
    3.	old lock strike plates were much longer than new and need
    	to fill in 
    
    any hints????
    
    	-Barry-
    

    Marvin doors can be ordered to oprn out, hinges at the sides, french
    style.  But if you do that, where do you put the screen?  (or maybe
    you don't live in Mass.)
    
    	Andrew
    

    
    
    We just installed interior french doors.  The doors are Morgan doors
    assembled by a millwork called Wholesale.  We bought them through
    Mullen door and window in Marlboro.  The doors came prehung all
    we had to do is install them in the opening and put the handles
    on.  Let me know if you need more info on them I'll mail to you
    separately.
    
    
    

    
    
    re:-7 
    
    	I bought an interior Morgan from Malden Door on Cook St.
    in Pinehurst (Billerica) Mass. 
       
    

    HAVE A DOOR AND CASING THAT HAS BEEN CLAWED IN THE PAST BY A DOG
    VERRY DEEPLY. THE DOOR IS PAINTED. WOULD LIKE TO FILL, BLOCK SAND
    AND REFINISH DOOR AND CASING. ? WHATS THE BEST MATERIAL TO USE
    OTHER THAN BONDO? ALSO WOULD LIKE A NON SHRINKING MATERIAL.
    THANKS DOUG

    What's wrong with Bondo?  (aka Autobody filler)
    
    
    I've used it successfuly to cover over some nasty looking holes
    in things. 
    
    -bill

    > Repairing gouged casing
    
    Careful you don't spend too much time and energy repairing a piece
    of casing that can be replaced for not too much money.
    

    how about using Minwax wood filler this stuff is great!!!1
    it mixes like bondo and is easy to work with (sand,etc)
    
    paul

    have the same problem myself PLUS an additional one:
    
    
    
    we still own the dog!
    
    any hints on what can be done to prevent this in the future?
    
    It is the front door and the dog attacks when the doorbell rings
    or one of us is putting our key in the lock.
    
    	-Barry-
    

    as far as the casing just keep replacing
    
    now to the door how about taking a 1/8th sheet of plexiglass and
    screw it on 
    
    hope this might help
    
    paul

    Re .5
    
    Doggie behavioral problems are frequently addressed in the CANINE
    notes file.
    
    pbm
    

    I like Durham's Rock Hard Water Putty.

    While you are retraining the dog, a scrap piece of carpeting tacked
    to the door frame works well to prevent further damage.

	Having never planed wooden doors, I thought I'd run this past 
the "experts" here!  There are two interior, hollow frame, wooden doors 
in my home that have stuck real bad since we moved in (3.5 yrs).  One 
may even need 1/4 inch removed.
	My question is, do I need to prepare the edge in any way, like 
by masking it so the wood does not splinter or shear while planing or 
cutting?  I bought a cheap wood hasp that looks like a small, non-
adjustable plane.  Should I purchase (or borrow) a quality wood plane?
	Thanks for the tips/hints!

	Paul Gallo 

When I am planing doors I always plane the edge with the hinges on: that
way you don't have to worry about re-positioning the handle. Ahh, but are 
you contemplating planing the vertical or horizontal surfaces ?  No matter.
As to the planing itself you are going to need to lay down a reference datum
(or you won't know whether or not you have planed off enough/too much.)  I
use a Stanley knife to put in a deep score at the depth to be planed off.
This provides an indelible mark, prevents the paint splitting and, too a
much lesser extent, stops you going too deep.  

The trick with planing - in my opinion - is to have two planes. One rough
plane to rip off the wood down to the depth, and one smooth plane to smooth
out the wood and give you a "clean" finish.  The real secrets are:
1) use sharp blades
2) use sharp blades
3) take your time
4) use sharp blades.

Henry Gillard - TSC Sydney

    	The method I like to use on stuck doors is a belt sander with 40
    grit sand paper.  I've never become to handy with a plane and always
    end up sanding it smooth afterwards.  The belt sander is faster
    and allows me better control.  
        If you need to take the door down on the sides or top, leave
    the door up.  That way you can take a little off and check to see
    if it fits.  The one additional step that I would add to .1 is 
    5) check to see if it fits
    	Nothing looks as bad as a door that was way over planed
    				
    					=Ralph=

Even for 1/4", you may find it easier to

1) score the door with a knife to cut the finish surface
2) use a sharp circular saw (maybe clamp a 2 x 4 on top of the door to 
use as straight edge to pull the saw against).

	/jeff (who had to shorten about 8 doors after they carpeted)

    You might want to wait for cooler weather (well, if you live in
    New England, fall seems to have already started - it was 45 degrees
    at my house when I got up this morning, and I shut the dehumidifier
    off until next summer), and see how bad the doors stick then; the
    humidity may be contributing to the swelling.  Unless the problem
    is on the hinge or bottom side of the door, try to do the job in
    place, so you know when you've removed enough (you can clean up
    the mess afterwards....I finally fixed up four sticking doors last
    summer...a couple of good vacuuming jobs got all the wood out of
    the carpet).  If the edge isn't smooth enough, clean it up with
    sandpaper, especially along the edges.  Then, be sure to finish
    the edge with matching paint or stain so that it is sealed, and
    will not swell up again next summer.  You may also find that the
    door knob doesn't line up perfectly with the strike plate on the
    door frame, which can also cause the door to stick.  It is pretty
    easy to take the strike plate off and chisel out enough of the frame
    to move the plate so that it lines up right; if you move it more
    than an eight of an inch or so, you will need to fill in the old
    screw holes and redrill, but that is a minor job compared to planing
    down a door.
    
    

    My first advise would be to invest/rent a small power-planer...
    After buying one and using it to plane down some new ash folding
    doors, I'll never go back to a hand plane again.. It does a "nice"
    "neat" job..
    
    If you choose the circular saw method as described, it too will
    work well... Providing that you properly set up the 2/4 or whatever
    to be used as a rip fence, and that you spend < $10 bucks on a 
    "hollow ground planer" fine tooth blade. Use it and there is NO
    need to sand. I suggest that you also place a couple of strips
    of masking tape on the door (saw may also work, but I hav'nt tried)
    to prevent the saw from scratching the door. I have used this
    method on my dad's 50 year old colonial doors. It worked well,
    however make absolutly certain that you have carefully made your
    measurments, and transferred them "PROPERLY" to the door to be cut.
    With a plane you can take off "a little at a time" and check for
    proper fit. The Circular saw will get the job done right or wrong
    after you have made the first cut.
    
    
    						Dave 

    If you are going to cut the top or bottom of the door you should
    first use a utility knife to first score the veneer being sure
    to score completely through the veneer.  Do this on both sides.
    Now it can be your choice of a hand or power saw to cut the door
    just below your score mark.
    If you have to plane either side of the door, you should use a
    large hand plane or as suggested earlier a power planer.  For
    best results with either a sharp blade is the key.
    A properly planed door should be beveled as follows:
    	
    	
    	
    	
    	
    
    --|                                         |--
    DJ|                                         |DJ   DJ = DOOR JAMB
      |--|                                   |--|     DS = DOOR STOP
      |DS|                                   |DS|     HH = HINGE SIDE
      |__|                           (^^)    |__|
      |                               ||        |
      | \=====================================\ |
      |HH\=====================================\|
      |                               ||        |
                                     (^^)
    
    NOTE THE ANGLE OF THE DOOR WHERE IT MEETS THE DOOR JAMB
    
    
    
    	
    	Good luck,
        JOEL
           

<	Having never planed wooden doors, I thought I'd run this past 
<the "experts" here!  There are two interior, hollow frame, wooden doors 
<in my home that have stuck real bad since we moved in (3.5 yrs).  One 
<may even need 1/4 inch removed.

Before you plane your doors, check to see if the door and door frame are square.
Hollow core doors do not expand and contract as much as solid doors.  Tight 
fitting doors are usually the result of bad installation and settling.  Close 
the door and see if the gap between the door and frame is equal all the way 
around.  The door can be realligned using shimes under the hinges.  

A bad planing job on a hollow core door is more apparent, because hollow core 
doors are usually lack visual detail of older doors.  The visual details 
attract attention away from imperfections.

Brian

    So the obvious question...
    
    	What's the best treatment to seal a newly installed door
    	so that it won't stick in the summer and won't let the cold
    	in during the winter?  Mine is an interior door which seperates
    	a heated entertainment room from a unheated cellar.  It does
    	swell in the summer to the point you have to really pull to
    	open it but now (Oct.) it opens and closes without a problem.
                                           
    	Oil-based stain is what I'd like to use since the door is wood.
    
    	-TB

    What is the collective opinion of this body re hollow core luan
    doors?  I have a duplex in which I rent both sides.  The doors are
    in poor shape on one side and not really much better on the other.
    
    I was thinking of ripping out the whole thing, jamb included, and
    replacing with prehung luan doors.  These run about $50 each (?)
    if I remember the ads correctly.
    
    If I were to only replace the door, might I be able to put in the
    raised panel type doors for about the same money?  Would I have
    problems with the door not fitting in the opening easily?  What
    other possible problems might I have.
    
    The duplex is about 20 or 25 years old and is in pretty good condition.
     It hasn't settled and as far as I can tell, things seem to be pretty
    plumb and level.  I know that if I ripped out the old jambs, then
    I could simply shim to make the doors plumb and level.
    
    Also, how would I go about finding the right kind of stain to put
    on the door?  The trim is all that ugly clamshell type stuff, and
    seems to be stained with a light-type coloring.  I am not sure if
    it is an oak stain or what.  I don't want these doors to look too
    out of place and I sure as h*ll don't want to replace all of the
    trim.
    
    Ed..
    

    1) Hollow luan interior doors are the bottom of the line door product.
    They are very soft and flimsy.  They are cheap, however.  
    
    2) Prehung doors tend to be available only in certain sizes that
    have come to predominate current residential construction.  These
    are 2'0/2'6/3'0 width by 6'6 or 6'8 height.
    
    3) There are two kinds of jambs - fixed and split.  Fixed are simpler
    to install and are more solid but will only work if the wall thickness
    is very close to 4-5/8" (3-1/2 stud + 2 x 1/2 wall board + 2 x 1/16
    skimcoat. (Other jamb widths are available, but not usually with
    the elcheapo prehungs).  Split jambs adjust to any width wall within
    a wide range (like 3-1/2 to 5-1/2 inches).
    
    4) You have to remove the casing to replace the door anyway.  If
    you can do it with minimal damage, you can re-use them, but you
    may find the effort to make them look good again (hole filling,
    restaining, etc) might be better put into new casing.  (This ignores
    the cost argument, however).
 

    I think I may not have been clear in my earlier reply.  I would
    like to replace the casing around the door.  These are old and showing
    wear anyway.  I am not sure what kind of stain to use, though.
    
    I appreciate the info on the hollow luan doors.  Maybe I don't want
    to use these, as I really don't want to have to replace them again
    in a year.
    
    The doorways seem to be pretty standard bedroom and bathroom doorways.
     I haven't measured them yet.  Every time I go over, I forget to
    do it.
    
    Would it be terribly difficult to fit a raised panel style door
    in the opening and just replace the casing trim around the door?
     I prefer this option mostly because I like the look of the door,
    but I really don't want to spend the money they seem to be costing.
    
    Is there some alternative in between el cheapo and the raised panel?
    If not, then maybe I would be better off with the Luan, stained,
    and take my chances that I won't have to replace them too frequently.
    
    Ed..
    

    I have hollow luan doors in my house and would not recommend them.
    My two sons have made short work of them, and once they get a hole
    you cannot fix it unless it's tiny.  At least with a solid door
    you can repair a nick.  They are cheap though.  I replaced one (without
    frame) for about $23.

When we bought our house one of the things I really liked were our raised panel
doors.  Embarrased to say, after living there for awhile I realized they were
FAKES!  These are hollow core and made out of something like masonite.  The
good news is they are very well made and I think they'll last a long time - just
don't try to nail into them.

Anyhow, I need a few new doors for the addition I'm putting on and plan to use
them if for no other reason to make them match the rest.  A price I got for a
24" door with jam (but no casing) was around $75.

-mark

>When we bought our house one of the things I really liked were our raised panel
>doors.  Embarrased to say, after living there for awhile I realized they were
>FAKES!  These are hollow core and made out of something like masonite.  The
>good news is they are very well made and I think they'll last a long time - just
>don't try to nail into them.

>>>>I have seen these doors done in molded chipboard or similar material. 
They were, (I thought) solid, rather than holllow core. The solid molded 
door had the advantage of not being liable to warp. I have *lots* of doors 
in my house that are solid wood and several have warped causing a permanent 
problem with closing tight. One is a closet (two door closet, looks funny 
with a warp but not serious) but the other is a bedroom door and is a pain 
to get closed. All others in the house though close fine so real wood is 
still nice and they are stained and varnished as opposed to painted.

    Vic

    If the property is rental, your tenants may destroy the doors
    regardless of their makeup.  Hollow Laun doors are very inexpensive
    and easy to replace.  I bought a 2-8 door pre-hung this weekend for
    $31 at Home Depot.  Just the doors are about $10-$15.  Home Depot
    also sells door skins.  They are sheets of the same material the
    doors are made of and then you make top, bottom, and sides out of
    1 1/2 stock.  
    
    The house next to mine is rented and they just changed tenants.
    What the owners did was just buy some door skins and glue the new
    door skin over the old skin and trimmed to fit.  Worked well on
    the inside of doors but made the fit against the jam a little tight.
    
    If you are living in the property, buy the nice real wood 6 panel
    doors and spend many loving hours finishing them.  For rental property,
    buy the cheapest material available which will solve the problem.
    You are trying to make money, not provide a luxury hotel setting.

    Re: .17
    
    I strongly disagree with your comments about rental property.
    While this may be your attitude, I don't buy junk for my 
    tenants.  And they appreciate it, too.  They show there
    appreciation by treating their apartment as if it were
    their home, and helping me with chores.  If you pick your
    tenants carefully they will take care of their apartment.
    

    I just had new wall to wall carpet installed and its time to trim
    the doors. Any tips or tricks would be appreciated but the two specific
    questions I have are:             
                                      
      How much do you cut off,  or how do you measure to determine how
    much to cut off.      I want the carpet to rub the bottom of
    the door just enough to seal but not drag. I would like to make
    one trim cut, not unhang, cut, rehang, unhang, cut etc. 
                              
    When cutting with circular saw how do you avoid any splintering
    on both sides of the door. 
                     

I can't think of any particular way to tell how much to cut off other than to 
measure it.  Or perhaps lie a lightweight straightedge flat on the carpet and 
mark where it hits the door?

When cutting the door with a circular saw, the bottom won't splinter because 
the teeth are cutting while driving into the wood.  The top tends to splinter 
because the teeth are coming out.  To stop this, score deeply along the cut 
line on the top with a razor knife before doing the saw cut.  That way the 
fibers are already severed, and they won't splinter.

Also, to get a good straight cut, clamp a straightedge to the door, rather than 
trying to make the cut straight by hand.  You can find the right offset by 
doing this:  Clamp a straightedge to a bench or other support, and make it 
closer to the edge than the distance from the edge of the saw base to the 
blade.  In other words, when you sit the saw on the bench up against the fence, 
the blade is out away from the bench (just a little, like 1/2").  Now take a 
scrap board, which is wider than the distance from the edge of the saw base to 
the blade and thinner than your straightedge, and clamp it by the far end up 
against the straightedge.  Cut about 6" into the end of the board, pushing up 
against the striaghtedge.  Now cut off that end, and you have a piece of wood 
that is exactly as wide as the distance between the edge of the saw and the 
blade.  Use it to measure where to clamp the straightedge against your door.

If this is clear as mud, tell me, and I'll try to draw a picture.

Paul

A fine tooth blade will help as will 2" wide masking tape along the cut. I've 
used this trick and even the splinters that do happen are small since they 
don't get knocked flying.

A little touch up will always be needed.

    I agree with .2 about the masking tape.  A couple of layers of the
    2" wide stuff does keep the splinters from flying and like Jim said,
    there will always be touch up neccessary.  For the touchup, match
    the wood tone with either stain, or if you don't have any, try some
    liquid shoe polish.  It usually comes in it's own applicator jar.
    
    Good luck.

I have some masonite doors that will need trimming. Does the same 
advice about splintering, masking tape, and touching up hold for them 
as well as for wood?

John H.

>> I want the carpet to rub the bottom of the door just enough to seal
>> but not drag. 

Having the door just touching the carpet may sound like a good idea,
but it's not. In time, your carpet will start to show a wear pattern
from the door and look awful. Better to have it clear the carpet and 
use a threshold if you really need an air tight seal.

Ditto on all of the previous hints to reduce splintering, I tape my
doors with masking tape, top and bottom, and then score with the knife
before using the saw. 

Charly

    I agree with .5 about clearing the carpet.  When I did the same
    type of thing, I took the door off, turned it upside down, held
    it up to the door frame at the height I wanted it and had my wife
    pencil a line on the door at the top of the frame.
    I have always used masking tape and have had no problems.
    
    Chris D.

    I must have been doing it wrong all these years.  I always used
    a plane.  At the risk of exhibiting my ignorance, how thick does
    the strip to be removed have to be to justify using a saw?  (I'd
    ask what the cutoff point is, but I couldn't deny the intent of
    the pun with a straight face.)
    
       Gary

    I too have to do the smae thing to several of my new doors and let
    me say that I wouldn't even consider using a plane for the 1/4-1/2
    inch that I must remove.
    
    I will score it with a knife, and then cut it with a saw along a
    straight-edge.
    
    Mark

    re .8
    
    Have you -perhaps- been working with wooden doors? That was THE
    technique i was familiar with until hollow core/LUAUN(sp?) started
    appearing on the scene.
    
    
    
    				h (old but serviceable)
    
    

    re: last several
    
    Once upon a time...
    
    Doors were made of solid wood.  And clear grade lumber at this.
    Planing was the way to shorten them.  Even by quite a bit.
    
    Now even "solid" wood doors are usually veneered with 1/512" stock.
    Planes are useless against that.
    
    

    Makes sense.  My current house is the first residence I've ever
    fiddled with built since the fifties.  
    
       Gary

    
    If your house has forced hot-air heat or central air, you should
    leave some extra space for air flow at the bottom, especially if 
    you keep the doors closed a lot (bedrooms, etc.).

    I have installed a set (4 doors - 2 by 2) of bifold doors in an
    archway (square) between 2 rooms in an older house.
    
    One of the rooms has natural oak wood trim, while the other has 
    stained walnut.  My problem is what to do about the bifold doors.
    
    The bifold doors open into the walnut trim room, so the oak side
    would not be seen, but from the oak trim room, the walnut side of
    the bifold doors is visible (folded).
    
    The doors are currently unfinished...
    
    I have checked out various magazines and do-it-yourself type books
    but haven't come upon any ideas as to what color(s) the bifold doors
    should be...if the were sliding doors, the choice would be easy...
    
    Anybody have any experience/ideas???
    
    Thanks...
    

    Go with whatever color stain or paint you like best.  Don't be afraid
    to mix different woods.
    
    Previous owner of my old (ca.1900) house painted over miles of dark
    oak in the living room when they installed miles of knotty pine
    in the kitchen.  I stripped all the white paint from the oak, restained
    and varnished.  From the kitchen side you see a nice dark oak door
    surrounded by mellow knotty pine.  In spite of the two different
    wood colors and grains, it looks quite nice.  Much better than the
    old paint.
    
    The previous owners even painted over all the old brass door fixtures.
    After removing the paint, discovered the imprint "Bomar's patent
    18??" on a door hinge.  Oops, I'm digressing into another note here.
    
    Good luck.  It sounds like you have two very nice rooms.
    
    	Marlene

    If you do what you're suggesting, make sure there is enough space so
    that when the door is up against the stop, it is flush with the edge of
    the jamb.
    
    				Top View of Jamb
    		_______________________________________
               |                                       |
    		----------------|          |-----------|
                                |__________|           
                     Door is                  Make sure this 
                    now here                  is wide enough
    
    Chiseling out the jamb for the hinges is slow, but it works.  A router
    would require a jig to do it right.
    
    Another approach:  why not remove the door and casing, and then
    remove the top and side jambs.  The nails holding them can be cut
    with a hacksaw.  Then re-install the jambs after turning it 180
    degrees.  Some shimming, but no chiseling, and you're not left with the
    mortises where the hinges used to be.
    
    Bob  

>     Another approach:  why not remove the door and casing, and then
>     remove the top and side jambs.  The nails holding them can be cut
>     with a hacksaw.  Then re-install the jambs after turning it 180
>     degrees.  Some shimming, but no chiseling, and you're not left with the
>     mortises where the hinges used to be.
>     
>     Bob  
    
    
    Bob,
    
    This way seems simpler at first, but compare this.
    
    First approach: Cut for hinges, Fill in the old hinge places.
    
    2nd approach: remove moldings, remove jamb, remove casing. What if this 
    is not a pre-hung door (the house is 50 years old), will the casing come 
    out in 1-piece? Is this way preferred because of the reliability of
    keeping the same hinge cutouts in the door frame?
    
    Thanks,
    Peter

>   Is this way preferred because of the reliability of
>   keeping the same hinge cutouts in the door frame?

Depends.  If the jambs are painted, it doesn't make as much difference, but 
even then you'll have to be a pretty good carpenter to fill in the old mortises
in such a way as they will not be visible (and will not BECOME visible) through 
the paint.  If the jambs are stained, there's no way you're going to ever make 
them look even half decent, so you almost have to turn the whole frame around 
if you want it to look good.

If they ARE painted, and if you do cut new mortises, and if they are some nice
wood, like the southern yellow heart pine that's used in a lot of old homes,
someone sometime in the future is going to swear up and down at your ghost when
they go to strip the woodwork to expose that beautiful wood.  :^)

Paul

    I just bought a pair of bifold doors, which I'd like to hang so that
    they open from the center, ie: non bifold.  Is there any particular
    difficulty I should anticipate in doing this?  The doors came with
    hinges installed, so I figure I'll have to rip 1/4" or so off one edge
    of one door, and, I suppose, do the same for the other, so they'll be
    the same width.  I guess I'll have to use some sort of cabinet catches
    in the center to hold them closed.  Am I overlooking anything?  Thanks
    							joe

    I'm not quite sure what you're asking, but I'll give it a shot.
    
    When the door is standing upright in front of you, the hinges are in
    the middle of the door.  Remove these hinges (3?) and flip flop the
    sides.  This way, the hinge holes will be up against the jamb, and
    therefore invisible when the door is opened (assume opening out toward
    you or pulling the door open).
    
    You'll need to put hinges on the door and attach them to the jamb.  Any
    hardware store carries the hinges you'll need.
    
    	Ted

    Thanks.  I guess what I'm asking is whether, for example, these kinds
    of doors are MADE to be suspended from the top, & might end up
    distorting if just hinged from the side.  Oh yea, I guess you would
    just have to switch them, wouldn't you?  (I was thinking [sort of]
    that one of them would be hinged on two sides, but, come to think of
    it, the outside hinges aren't pre-installed, so you can hang them to
    open either way.

    
    
      I've looked under keywords CARPENTRY_FLOORS&ROOFS, FLOORING_WOOD,
    and DOORS, but have not found anything specific about thresholds.
    So, here goes...
    
      I'm looking for general/specific suggestions around installing
    thresholds.  Things like what type of wood, fastening, where can
    I find possibly pre-finished thresholds, etc.
    
      Been replacing a lot of flooring and doors, and I need the thresholds
    to finish it up.  Most of my needs are wood, but I also have rooms
    that run carpet-to-tile and vice versa.
    
      Thanks for any advice.
    
                                                              DF
    
    

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Bruce [Moderator]

    Bi-folds don't have hinges on the sides.  They have holes where the
    hardware is inserted and then the door in installed into the track on
    the top, and an angle brace on the bottom.
    
    You should have no problem hanging them as regular doors.
    
    	Ted

    Thanks all - I framed & hung them this weekend & it worked fine (never
    hung a door before).  I was AMAZED - they were square, opened & closed
    properly, etc.  Then my wife came home & said : "Isn't the fancy side
    supposed to go on the OUTSIDE?" . . . 8^{

This is a rather belated reply to 917.13.  Ed Fultz was asking about 
replaceing the doors and casing on a rental property.

If the existing doors are split-jamb pre-hung dors, then this is close 
to impossible, because it is the casing that holds the frame into the wall.
In this kind of door unit, the casing is staples to the fram at the factory, 
and the two halves of the split jamb are inserted on site into oposite sides
of the doorwayt opening.  The join between the two halves is behind the stop, 
so you may not be able to see it, but some pressume of the frame will ususlly 
reveal the crack.

If the existing doors are hund from a solid frame, with the casing applied 
afterwards and on site, you can do what you asked about.  BUT the work involved 
in getting the new door to fit the old frame, chisling the hinge gains, etc. is
just too much to make it worth your while (unless you havea month of free time).

My opinion: replace the whole door unit with a new pre-hung unit.

	Andrew

I was installing a new door in an existing frame last night, in a turn-of-the-
century house in Mass, and have the following question:

	How many hinges should I use?

The other interior doors in this house are all hung on two hinges, which is the 
case for most older houses that I have seen.  On the other hand, most modern 
doors seem to have three hinges.  So, I was going to use three hinges, until I 
noticed that the door frame is bowed.

The door is currently hung with two hinges, top and bottom.  With just a hare
of clearance at the top and bottom, there is a 1/4" + gap at the center.  

Do I need a center hinge?  If so, how do I mount it, without warping the door?

The hinges are 3" brass plated steel.  The door is a 32" x 6'8" fifteen pane 
glass door -- not very heavy at all, maybe less that 50 lbs?

[[I have looked at the directory of "DOOR" notes, and decided that the one 
hinge note (2095 -- Rising Butts) was inappropriate.  Lets keep this note for 
hinges -- a general discussion of installing replacement interior doors is in 
Note 917. ]]

	Andrew

    Before someone else makes a big joke out it this, please replace
    "hare" by "hair" in .0
    
    A hare's clearance would be a bit too drafty.
    
    	Andrew
    

My completely uninformed guess:

Older interior doors, being solid-core and therefore inherently stiff, don't 
need as much bracing as modern interior doors, which are hollow-core and 
therefore inherently flimsy.  Thus two hinges are sufficient for the old-timers, 
but the new ones need three.

This guess ignores the fact that older, solid-core doors are heavier than newer,
hollow-core doors, and thus need either stronger hinges or more hinges to hold
them up.

    I've also got a turn of the century (the previous one) house with
    some heavy interior doors that were hung using only two hinges.
    Over the years the weight of the doors had repeatedly pulled out
    the top hinge so that frame around the mortise had cracked.  Replacing
    the door frame is not possible because the frame itself and the
    finish trim are actually the structural studs holding up the wall.
    The visible portion has been dressed with molding planes to provide
    the finish trim.  
    
    A third hinge was going to be needed to prevent recurrence of the
    strain on the top hinge.  After chiseling away the damaged wood,
    plugging the holes with epoxy, scarfing in new wood on the
    mortises, and sanding everything flush, I checked the frame for
    plumbness.  On the average it was OK.  But the middle, right where
    the third hinge wanted to go, was bowed out slightly both in the
    plane of the wall and perpendicular to the wall.  It wasn't that
    much, about 1/8" both ways, but enough to cause binding on the middle
    hinge.  Luckily, the door itself was true in all dimensions.
    
    The mortises on the door had also gotten beaten up over the years
    so they got the same treatment as the frames with new wood scarfed
    in.  I Mounted the new hinges on the door, aligning them carefully,
    and propped the door up in the frame in the open position, checking
    for plumbness with a level.  The top and bottom hinges were marked,
    drilled and mounted on the frame with no problem.  I had to shave
    the stop on the frame and shim out with thin wood strips to align
    the middle hinge.  When the middle hinge was mounted, the door opened
    and closed without a squeak.  I amazed myself.  Usually, I can't
    line anything up straight.  But cheated a little.  Since I was
    replacing the hinges with larger ones, I used mortise free hinges.
    What a time saver.
    
    If your door is light enough to be adequately supported by two hinges,
    I wouldn't add the third one.  If you really need it, it may be
    possible to reduce the bowing in the frame by removing the trim
    casing and re-locating some of the shims used to align the frame
    in the rough opening.  A bit less on the top and a bit more on the
    side might true the whole thing up.  That will make for a more
    cosmetically pleasing middle hinge placement.
    
    - gene

A couple of my interior, solid pine doors close by themselves when left open,
and one opens by itself when left closed-but-not-latched.  I am to blame.
I hung them (pre-hung jobs) myself in a rush to move in, but now they're getting
to be more hassle.  (The other ten doors went ok.)

How can I fix these self-opening/closing doors?  I remember struggling with
hanging them vertically along two planes, but which plane is off to cause
opening or closing?  Can I use shims between the hinge and the door frame?  Or
shims between the other hinge and the door itself?

I *really* don't want to rip out the frame and re-hang.  I mean *really*,
**really**!

[I would've sworn this topic had been discussed somewhere in here, but couldn't
find it.  Apologies if I missed it.]

    The plane is the wall.  If the top of the wall is closer to the
    opposite wall than the bottom of the wall, it will encourage the door
    to swing in that direction.  You probably plumbed the door vertically
    with relation to the door trim assuming the wall was plumb.  
    
    It could also be the edge of the door frame that the hinges are on.  If
    it is not plumb, you could get the same results.
    
    Unfortuately the only fix I can think of that would be "correct" is
    removing the trim, shimming the frame, replacing trim.  Well you could
    make the hinges rust and make it difficult for the hinge to work and
    therefore the door would stay put.  How about door stops?

    
    If you don't want to rip out the frame (I know I wouldn't want to)
    you can insert shims--cardboard works pretty well.
    

Experimenting with a comb-bound manual, I find, as .1 says (if I
understand it correctly), that moving the top or bottom of the door
perpendicular to the plane of the wall is what makes the door swing one
way or the other instead of hanging where one has left it.

So let's consider the door that swings inward by itself.  If you unscrew
the lower hinge and reattach it so that the bottom of the door is slightly
farther into the room, that should balance the door.  This may require
widening some screw holes, and then filling them with putty or stuffing 
them with toothpicks to make the screws hold tightly again.  

Now mind you, the above is based on theory and a quick experiment.  Can
anyone who has actually done this sort of thing say if it will work? I
don't see how shimming the door out from the wall at the top or the bottom
would affect whether it tends to swing in or out.

	Enjoy,
	Larry

    If the problem is slight (i.e., the door sort of oozes over gradually,
    rather than whacking over-- a good rule of thumb is whether or not
    the door swings with enough force to disturb nearby dust kitties)
    here is a simple solution:
    
    Take out one of the hinge pins. Place it flat on hard surface like
    basement floor. Whack it with the manual fastener implanter to impart
    slight bow in the pin. Pick up pin and use same manual fastener
    implanter to replace hinge pin in hinge. 
    
    Hinge binds slightly, door no longer swings.

    John H.

I'd just buy a Stanley spring-loaded adjustable hinge for each door and lightly
adjust it to correct the swing.

Just an update ...

Door 1 - shut by itself.  I moved the bottom hinge plate (on the frame) about
three-and-a-half hairs away from the room (toward the hallway), and it's a lot
better.  It still swings shut a bit when wide open, but not nearly as much.
I needed the old make-the-screw-hole-bigger-and-stuff-in-some-toothpicks trick.
I can't move it any more because I'll run out of wood to screw into.

Door 2 - shut by itself.  I shimmed the top hinge plate (on the frame) OUT just
about the thickness of one popsicle stick (well, ok, exactly the width of one
popsicle stick).  It hangs fine now.  (I know - UGLY!!  But who's gonna go
around looking at door hinges?  :-)  Just me.  :-(

Door 3 - opened by itself.  I re"hung" the bottom of the door frame further
INTO the room.  And it hangs fine, too.  I only had one (countersunk) finish
nail holding the bottom to the stud anyway, so I countersunk it out of sight
(past the frame), moved the bottom part of the frame into the room (that's
right, the rest of the frame remained nailed to the studs), and re-nailed it
about seven-and-a-half hairs into the room.

As is the case with most of my projects, I spent most of my time thinking about
what I needed to do.  I looked at my little level in various locations, guessed
at various intricacies about balance, verticality, the universe, and everything
and wound up with the time-honored Trial and Error method.  Works every time.
.... if you have enough wood.

Thanks for the suggestions.

    RE: .6
    
    Maybe these should go in the "Why did they ever do that?" note but...
    
    You say door 1 doesn't have enough wood to screw into?  Are you sure?
    How about removing the hinge plate that's on the door and shimming
    under that?
    
    For the record, I had to shim a door so that it would latch shut.
    I took the door down, removed the bottom hinge from the frame,
    traced it onto a piece of shirt cardboard to make a couple of shims,
    cut them out and re"hung" the door.  No glue, no mess and a bathroom
    door that stays shut.

    Why this has nothing to do with bifold doors, it does have to do
    with staining.  I have just had installed a red oak staircase leading
    to my new 2nd floor and in the new front entryway and upstairs I
    will be staining the wood trim, windows (pine) and in the entry
    way will be staining the front & closet doors and trim (pine).
    
    I would like to just poly the oak stairs and I'd like to know
    what color stain I could use on the pine that might closely
    match the color of the oak....
    
    
    any suggestions??
    
    
    
    Royce

    Minwax's "Fruitwood" seemed an acceptable match to me when I
    was trying something similar, but remember that the graining
    patterns of the two woods are sufficiently different that
    coloration is only a part of the total appearance.

    
    Royce,
    
    We have a very similar situation on our house. The stair treads and
    landings are red oak, but the newels, balusters, and rails are knotty
    pine, taken from the property. I believe the builder used Minwax
    Puritan Pine stain, but I can check and find out for sure. It matches
    extremely well.
    
    CdH
    

    CdH,  are you stair treads stained of left natural,  I boxed in
    a beam in my last addition with pine and stained with Puritan Pine
    and after holding a piece of the oak next to it yesterday, the
    Puritan Pine looks too yellow next to the oak.
    
    
    
    Royce

    
    I went to Grossmans at lunch and looked at the Minwax display
    Puritan Pine didn't really match too well between the pine and
    the oak, the Golden Oak stain looked just about identical between
    the pine and oak. I then went to Sherwin Williams and their display
    showed oak & pine in Puritan Pine to match very closely. lastly
    I have the Minwax color chart and the oak stained with Natural
    color and the pine with Puritan Pine are a good match.........
    
    
    I have some Puritan Pine at home and will stain a piece of each
    wood tonight to see the color difference.
    
    
    
    Royce

    I think the only way to know for sure is to try your own samples.
    "It all depends" on your particular situation.
    The final color will also tend to change over time as the wood
    ages, and the oak and pine will age differently, but you can give
    it your best shot and hope for the best.

		Something else to try in combination with these stains is
	to use a natural/clear stain on the pine before applying the various
	"colored" stains. This gives some differnt variaiions, and maybe a
	closer match.
	
		When I stained my pine trim and doors, I used one coat of clear
	stain and then 2 applications of a red oak stain. This helped to bring 
	out the grain of the pine and hide some of the blemishes of the pine, 
	inaddition to creating a different(more even) color in the finished 
	product.

		Another suggestion is try mixing some of the clear stain with
	the desired colored stain to get custom colored stain. After applying
	the clear stain (and while it's still wet apply an application of the
	"colored" stain.


	Good luck,

	-bob 
	  

    
    Royce,
    
    Yes the stairs are natural and covered with satin poly. I tried to get
    a hold of the builder this weekend but he must have been away.
    
    CdH
    

    I decided to use one coat of Minwax fruitwood on the pine
    (two coats was too dark) and will probably put one coat
    on the oak, which I found darkens to oak the same amount
    as the Natural, but takes away the redish tint of the wood..
    
    
    
    Royce

    [Mr. Moderator:  I'm guessing this is the best place to park this
    question;  please move it if I'm wrong.]
    
    The current project is to make a finished room in a basement.  This
    basement has a metal-skinned exterior door leading to the bulkhead, and
    it appears to be the pre-hung variety, which comes complete with a
    metal threshold (firmly fastened to the concrete floor).
    
    This door's rubber flaps (for sealing better against the threshold)
    clear the cement floor by approximately 2 1/8 inches.  This appears to
    be reasonable clearance for putting down carpet or tile on the slab,
    or perhaps underlayment and carpet or tile (I've noted recently the
    existence of PT plywood, which might serve for this) -- but
    insufficient clearance to do the floor with 2x3s with insulation
    between, covered with underlayment.
    
    My question then is this:  Is it a reasonable thing to raise up the
    threshold (assuming it can be dislodged :-) and remove the appropriate
    amount from the bottom of this metal-clad door;  or is the wise course
    to work around it, and do the floor such that the door will clear it
    without any meddling?
    
    Dick

    
    
      Cutting a metal door is very common. I just cut down a door for
     my dad. Any lumber yard selling metal doors would do it for ya. I
     think they charge 30 bucks to cut down doors. And yes, the cut is
     made from the bottom of the door.
    
     BAL

    [moderator - please move if appropriate]
    
    Does anyone have either a MAIL ORDER or manufacturer source for short
    (about 4 foot high) bi-fold doors, either panelled or louvered?
    
    This is to create a knee wall closet on the second floor of a cape.
    
    Mail order is preferred as I am in New Jersey and not local to all the
    wonderful stores referenced in Mass.
    
    	-Barry-
    

    
    
    Have you tried Sears ??
    
    Maybe Somerville Lumber can help 
    (closest to you may be Warwick, RI.  401-732-5300)
    
    
    

    
    Another thought:   You may want to try an unfinished furniture place
                       Sometimes, they will build things to your specs??
    
    
    
    

	I also ran into this problem last fall. 

	I used outdoor wooden shutters purchased at Somerville Lumber. I
 suppose these are fairly common?

 -bob

    Check the different types of bifold doors that are locally available. 
    I had a similar need, and found some louver/louver doors that I was
    able to cut in the panel between the two louvered sections.  Looks
    great, just like it was made that way.
    
    If that won't do, you can have them custom made.  Big $$, though. 
    Almost any lumberyard can get order them through some specialty shop.

    
    	Mr. Moderator, I looked in the keyword directory for DOORS and
    couldn't find anything that resembles this note.
    
    	I have a slight problem with two doors that are close together in a
    corner. It looks as though whoever put the door trim in messed up on
    one of them. Here's the problem. One door is in one wall and the other
    door is very close to it on another wall in a corner. At the top, the
    trim on the doors are about an inch apart from each other, at the
    bottom you could barely fit a screwdriver between them. We are in the
    process of stripping wallpaper from the walls with the intention of
    painting soon. I am not an experienced carpenter so I am hesitant to
    start ripping trim off my doors to try to get them even with each
    other. I don't know if it's a problem with the way the door frames
    themselves were put in or if it's just the trim that's a problem. If
    there's a quick fix for this I'd like to hear it. I may just decide to
    live with it the way it is (the doors function ok). I think one of the
    doors may have been an add-on that some not so handy handy man put in
    because the rest of the house is well constructed. Any suggestions
    would be appreciated.
    
    Steve
    

    Take a level and check the side of the door casing. Then check the 
    walls.  I suspect that you'll find the door casing is vertical and 
    at least one wall isn't, hence the variation in spacing.  I'd live 
    with it.  In an older house, this sort of thing is called "character."  
    If it really bugs you, you could probably replace the door casing
    on one or both doors along that side so there is no gap at all -
    run the casing together and right into the corner - but I'm not
    sure that would look just right either.
    

The fact that "the doors function ok" would lead me to believe that the frames
are plumb - otherwise one or both would tend to open or close by themselves,
given good hinges.  Also, corners are often used to make up for cumulative
weirdness of walls being out a bit, which is often the case.  

I'd either leave it alone as chances are that nobody will notice (check other
corners in your house for similar things - you might be surprised at what you
find but have never noticed!), or if the trim lends itself, taper a piece of
trim to satisfy both lines.

Pete

    
    	Thanks for your input. It never really occurred to me that it could
    be the WALLS that were off and not the door frames. It's in kind of a
    dark corner and I think we can live with it. I think we probably wouldn't 
    have noticed it at all if we weren't stripping the wallpaper. Is there
    a way to take off one piece of door trim in order to get at the place
    where they are so close together? I'd like to get the wallpaper out of
    that corner and be able to reach it when I paint as well. We're
    planning to paint the trim as well so if removal of the trim does a
    little damage to the piece I can fix it before it gets painted. 
    
    Thanks again,
    
    Steve B.
      

    The trim should (in theory) just pry off, in all probability.  Also
    in all probability you will damage it to a greater or lesser degree
    in the process.  It depends on how enthusiastically it was nailed.
    If it's just a flat board, or a standard door casing, that's replacable
    without too much money or effort; if it's a moulding that is no longer 
    made, think about it a lot before you start prying.

The amount of damage caused when removing a part is proportional to the cost 
and difficulty of replacement.  Pry carefully.

Stan

  Architraves of older houses are easily pried with a flat bar. Drive the bar
between the plaster and the wood, and then pry. Be careful, though, as early
architraves are usually built up from several mouldings; you want to pry the
bottom most piece of wood. You might damage the plaster a bit, but that is
easier to repair than elaborate mouldings are.

  Door architraves are a bit more difficult to remove, since the threshold is
usually cut to fit around a portion of the architrave. Mitres of any architrave
are often nailed, so be careful there, too.

  Also, don't try to drive any nails back out from the piece. The wood has
shrunk over the years, grabbing firm the nails. Any attempt will splinter
the wood on the visible side. It is best to simply cut the nails flush to the 
backside.

  Patrick

    	
    	It's not really a very ornate piece of trim. It's just a flat
    piece. But it is going to be DIFFICULT to get behind it with any kind
    of prying instrument because of the original problem of it being in a
    corner and also right up against another door. I think I'll just get a
    reall small paint brush and paint in between over the wallpaper that's
    in there. No one will really see it anyway. Thanks for all your help.
    
    Steve B.
    

    I think you found the right solution.  However, if you wanted to pry
    it, you can do that from the door opening as easily or more easily as
    from the plaster side.
    
    ed

    I'd remove the trim by hammering the nails all the way through with 
    a nail set.  Once the nail is all the way through, the trim piece
    can be removed easily.
    
    -Mike
    

This is sort of related to the original topic...

I just installed a set of bifold doors between the living and dining room
(etched glass top and louvered bottom).  They're all up and work and look
fine, but I have a question about the bottom braces (not runners like the top.)
The house is on a slab so I only screwed the brace into the door jamb, not 
into the floor as well.  They seem tight enough, but should I go to the bother 
of securing them to the slab beneath the carpeting?

Dave

    
    
    	That's all I did for my closet doors when I finished basement.
    
    	It may not with stand a direct hit from a big wheel at ramming
    	speed but otherwise it should be OK...
    
    						Mike
    						----

    
    I've read the info in this Notesfile re: Installing pre-hung doors; I
    need info about the QUALITY of the types of pre-hung doors available.
    
    I understand that most pre-hungs are split jamb, but have also been
    advised that I'm much better off, quality/durability wise, to have
    bored-jamb or solid-jamb doors.
    
    Any comments on quality in general or your experiences with any of
    these types of jambs in particular, would be much appreciated.
    
    Thank you.

    I've used both types in my remodeling and I don't see much difference
    in quality between them.  The split jambs were a lot faster to install,
    since the casing was already put together.  When you have 7 or 8 of
    them to install, it makes a difference.  If I had only 1 or 2 to
    install, I would probably just look for the best deal I could get in
    either type.
    
    BTW, the doors I installed were solid 6 panel pine.
    
    Bob

>I understand that most pre-hungs are split jamb, but have also been
>advised that I'm much better off, quality/durability wise, to have
>bored-jamb or solid-jamb doors.

I agree with this. If I can't find a pre-made jamb with the right dimensions
for the next door I install, I make the thing myself.

Mickey.

    This looks the best "fit" for this question (if not, moderators please
    move it):
    
    One of these years I plan to replace the old wooden front door of my
    house with a nice (co$tly) tight-fitting steel door - but right now that
    job isn't in the budget for the foreseeable future.  The wooden door is
    heavy, and it sags a lot.  I replaced the hinge screws on the top hinge
    with MUCH longer screws (3 1/2 inches, I think) so that they go into
    the structure of the house wall rather than just into the door frame. 
    Tightening up on the long screws usually will temporarily fix the
    sagging, both allowing the door to close reasonably well (latch lines
    up with strike plate) and preventing big enough gaps that the
    weatherstripping does not prevent drafts - important since the front of
    the house faces out over a steep hill and is very exposed (which is why
    I want to put in one of those good steel doors - when I can afford it).
    
    Once again, the door is sagging enough that it doesn't close easily,
    although not yet to the point where there is a noticeable draft along
    the top at the side away from the hinge.  However, it doesn't seem to
    be possible to tighten up the replacement hinge screws any further -
    they are already real tight.  I am wondering what the best thing to do
    next is.  My father, now deceased, was my resource in the past for
    questions like this whenever the job was obviously too small to bother
    calling in paid help (or when I am feeling too cheap to!), so now I am
    not sure how to proceed.  What I am thinking of doing is this:
    
    1) Take off the bottom hinge and insert a thin shim underneath it on
    the frame side, perhaps some thin cardboard.  (I'll have to take the
    door off the hanges to do this so I may not do it this weekend if it is
    real cold out to avoid heating the whole great outdoors.)  The door is
    a tight fit anyhow, so I can't put in anything very thick or I will
    have to plane down the door and redo the weatherstripping - and if I
    make the door fit more loosely, it will leak air more easily if it sags
    out of line again.
    
    2) Replace the door on the hinges and tighten everything up.
    
    3) If necessary, chisel out the strike plate area a bit so the latch
    goes in easily, and move the plate down if necessary.   Even when the
    house was new the strike plate was installed so that the latch just
    barely went into it - sloppy job, but I didn't do it.
    
    What I am wondering is, I know the door frame itself is also not
    completely square anymore, which makes the problem worse - it was when
    the house was built, but as the house settled it became a bit skewed
    (my neighbor's went far enough off that he had to replace the frame,
    when these houses were about 6 years old or so).  The house is no
    longer settling, so the shape of the frame isn't going to change any
    more now, though.  Should I try to do something about it, and if so,
    what should I try?  Or should I leave it alone and just work on the
    door hinges and the strike plate?
    
    /Charlotte (wishing Dad were still alive!)           

    Depending on how your door is framed, you may be able to take off the
    inside molding and get at the shims which were used to "fine tune" the
    frame.  By replacing or rearranging the shims, you should be able to
    bring the frame back closer to true.  Unless, of course, the person who
    installed the door butted the frame directly against the studs.

    No, the frame is definitely not up against the studs since there is an
    inch or so gap between the frame and the studs where the top hinge is -
    I would have thought the shims would be there since that is where I
    would have put them (but what do I know; I have only installed one door
    in my life, and it was an interior one in the basement!).  My handyman
    boss said the same thing about fixing the frame, so I suppose I will
    have to do it.  However, the weather forecast for Saturday isn't
    conducive to dismantling the front door of the house - sleet storm
    predicted!  So I think the job will have to wait a few days!  I am sort
    of concerned that I will wreck some of the molding if I take the thing
    apart - there used to be a lumberyard nearby that sold matching
    molding (guess why I had to find THIS out...) but the recession did
    them in and they closed a couple of months ago, so I guess I better not
    ruin any of it!
    
    /Charlotte

    
    If you want to try packing the hinges, it is possible to do it without
    removing the door completely.  Make a template of the hinge and
    transfer this on to thin aluminum (spare bit of flashing or cut &
    folded from a soda can).  Punch out the screw holes, but make the
    top hole into a slot.
    
    Open the door & support it with wooden wedges.
    
    Take out the bottom three screws & loosen the top screw slightly.
    
    Slip the shim behind the hinge - the top screw slides into the slot.
    
    Replace & tighten all screws.
    
    
    When you eventually get around to squaring the door frame,  I would
    first put a plywood block behind each hinge instead of having long screws
    into the house frame.
    
    Regards,
    
    Colin
    
    
    
    
    
    

     If the trim is painted and you can tell where the nails are, use a
     nail-set to drive them through the trim.  When you put the trim back
     up, nail in different places and putty up the holes from the old nails.
     Not as simple if the trim is finished with stain, or you can't find the
     nails...

    The trim is stained - it is a fussy sort of neo-colonial design, and I
    did break some of the last time I had to take part of door apart (had
    to fix the outside frame of the back door because of some rot).
    
    Thanks for the tip about not having to take the door all the way off -
    tomorrow looks like a poor day to take an exterior door off for a long
    period of time, but I had a real tough time to get the door to close
    this morning, and repeatedly banging it is loosening the panels in the
    door so I will eventually have to reglue them somehow also - the
    infinite-regress home repair job, as usual!  I was going to shim the
    bottom hinge with a thin piece of cardboard (since the hinge is on the
    inside, of course, and doesn't get exposed to weather), but I think
    there is some scrap thin aluminum in the junk box from previous work
    anyhow.
    
    /Charlotte
              

    Is anyone aware of a matched set of router bits that will cut the coped
    molding on both the stiles and rails?
    
    The cutters I have seen from router bit catalogs like MPCS etc are for
    doors no thicker that 7/8".
    
    I'm not sure but, I think these cutters assume you will use dowels to
    strengthen the joint.  I would like to use tendons.  
    
    The doors I am making are 1 3/8" thick.
    
    FYI I have a 3 1/4 hp 1/2 collet router and router table.
    
    can you help?
    
    pete
    
    

    I'd recommend asking this question in NOTED::WOODWORKING_AND_TOOLS.
    There are a lot of very knowledgeable people who take part in
    that conference.
    
    	Dick

    Can someone help us find an answer to this problem.  We started
    building our house October 1990 and finished it approx November 1991.
    Needless to say, construction went on during the winter, spring, summer
    and fall.
    
    The construction was somewhat unusual -- 1/2 the house was conventional
    stick built construction and the other 1/2 was a Kit home purchased
    through DECK House in Acton, Mass.
    
    The doors and lumber were generally purchased through a lumber yard.
    
    Since we've moved in (last November) the house seems to be warping or
    the doors are warping...we can't seem to figure this out.  Is this
    normal?  One day the door will shut, the next day it won't so we're
    forever adjusting doors, locks, etc.
    
    Any insight would be welcome.
    
    Darlene

>    Since we've moved in (last November) the house seems to be warping or
>    the doors are warping...we can't seem to figure this out.  Is this
>    normal?  One day the door will shut, the next day it won't so we're
>    forever adjusting doors, locks, etc.
      
      A  "one-time"  (or  a  couple  times  over  the first year or two)
      adjustment would seem reasonable, but it seems that  it  would  be
      unusual  for  the  amount of "warping" you describe to be occuring
      from day to day.
      
      Could  it  be  that the house isn't braced properly and that walls
      are shifting enough to cause the problem?
      
      Did  you  build  the  house yourself?  If not, you should ask your
      builder about this. If you did build it yourself you might want to
      have  a  professional  builder or house inspector take a look.
      
      If  the  house  is  designed  to have this much "give" to it, then
      maybe  the  people  who  sold  you  the  kit  could  provide  some
      information on what to do about the doors.
      
    
>    The construction was somewhat unusual -- 1/2 the house was conventional
>    stick built construction and the other 1/2 was a Kit home purchased
>    through DECK House in Acton, Mass.

      BTW  --  I'm  curious.   Why  did  you  choose  this half-and-half
      approach? Not being critical -- there can be good reasons for this
      sort  of thing.  But you have to take care that the two systems --
      conventional and kit -- work together properly.

    It could be the doors wern't hung properly. The doors on my house were
    warped pretty badly. It was caused because the only thing holding the
    door in place were the nails through the front of the door trim. No
    shims were ever put in. The door frame by itself isn't string enough to
    support the weight of the door. 
    
    Mike

    You're hitting an area which I hope isn't the case. We had to bring in
    3000 yards of dirt -- which the house is sitting on. It was gravel. We
    had a builder and appararently, someone who "builds bridges and roads and t
    they used a technique of bringing in gravel -- packing it down -- bringing
    in more, etc., etc. until we had it high enough there to start with.
    Then they dug out the dirt again to pour the foundation, using rebars,
    etc.
    
    The house was inspected several times by a building inspector and
    passed with flying colors.  If you know of someone expert in this area,
    it would be helpful.
    
    

    re.3
    3000 yards of gravel?!?!? Wow thats enough to build a small mountain!
    
    -j

re: .2

      Good  point  about the doors being hung properly.  I agree that if
      the door frames -- especially the  hinge  side,  which  takes  the
      weight  or  the  door  --  weren't  properly  plumbed, shimmed and
      fastened then the conditions mentioned in .0 could occur.

      How  to check this... Well, the best way would be to pull off some
      of the door casings and look for shims between the door frame  and
      the  2x4s  (or whatever) that make up the rough opening.  However,
      you might not want to risk damage to the casings and walls.  Maybe
      open  the  door  a few inches, take a hold of the door on the jamb
      side (opposite the hinges) and try to pull/push/twist.   Watch  or
      have  another  person  watch to see if the frame moves at all.  It
      shouldn't move.  Can you do this and get the doors to  "warp"  and
      then  back to the "unwarped" condition?  If so then this is likely
      your problem.
      
      I  forget  if  you  mentioned this or not, but this problem can be
      worse for solid core (heavy) doors. (Solid core doors usually have
      three hinges, hollow core doors typically have two.)

      If  this  is  the problem then you do have to remove the casing to
      fix it.  Use shims behind each of the hinges -- you  may  have  to
      remove  the  hinge  screws, none hinge at a time.  After the hinge
      side of the door is plumb, remove one screw from each hinge. Go to
      the  hardware  store  and  get  longer screws -- long enough to go
      through the shims and at least 1" into the 2x4 (or?).  You'll need
      to pre-drill for those long screws, but once they're in place your
      door will stay put.
      
      It is possible, although I wouldn't recommend it, that long screws
      could fix the problem without having to shim. If you want to avoid
      pulling off the casings, try some long screws on one or two of the
      worst offending doors.  Won't cost much effort  and  it  certainly
      wount hurt.

      BTW,  some  pre-hung doors come with casings pre-installed on both
      sides.  They use a "split-jamb" which comes apart; the  two  parts
      are  positioned from opposite sides of the opening and pushed back
      together.  This saves on-site labor, but it makes it impossible to
      properly shim the door frame. In this system, the casing is nailed
      to both the door jamb and the 2x4s that  frame  the  opening.   It
      could  be  that  the  installers  didn't  use  enough nails in the
      casings.  If you see casing moving when you  test  you  doors,  it
      might  help  to  put  a few more nails in the casings to make sure
      that they're anchored solidly to the wall on  both  sides  of  the
      wall  at  each  hinge  and at the latch plate.  Make sure that the
      nails go into the 2x4, not just sheetrock and/or air,  neither  of
      which will hold.

    Re .5   "impossible to properly shim split jamb doors..."
    
    Charlie, could you elaborate on this?  I installed split jamb doors (7
    of them) in my addition and had no problem shimming them.  Granted,
    it's a little more effort than shimming a conventional jamb, but more
    than made up for by having the casing already done.  As an example, the
    last door that I hung (admittedly the learning curve effect was
    significant) took me 45 minutes from start to finish.
    
    That was almost 4 years ago, and they still look great.
    
    Bob

re .6

>    Re .5   "impossible to properly shim split jamb doors..."
>    
>    Charlie, could you elaborate on this?  I installed split jamb doors (7
>    of them) in my addition and had no problem shimming them.  Granted,
>    it's a little more effort ...
      
      Your  right, they can be shimmed.  The "problem" is that you can't
      adjust the shims with both halves of the split jamb in place.   So
      you  have  to  secure and shim the one half, then put in the other
      half and hope it requires the same thickness of shims. Fortunately
      it  usually  does,  as  close as makes any difference, and, as you
      say, with proper care it can be done and is satisfactory  in  most
      cases.   My  opinion,  based  on experience living with split jamb
      doors, is that they never feel as sturdy as solid jambs.  I  don't
      like  that  feeling.   Other  opinions  will  find  them perfectly
      acceptable, and thats fine with me. I know I'm "pickey" about such
      things.
      
      I  do agree that the split jamb concept makes easy work of getting
      the casings in place, even with wall thickness  that  varies  from
      door  to  door,  or even from side to side of the same door.  This
      assumes you find the styles of  casing  that  are  available  are
      acceptable, as the generally are.
      
      Two comments:  
      
      (1) I do not think that split jabs are sturdy enough to hang solid
      core doors. If you find them acceptable for hollow core, find, but
      I suggest you re-consider if you're hanging solid core doors.  (All
      of our doors are solid core, most a full 36" wide -- they're HEAVY
      -- which explain some of my bias.)
      
      (2) The apparent practice of at least some builders is not to shim
      split jamb doors, but to rely on the casing, nailed to  the  rough
      opening,  to support the doors.  This, in my opinion, is certainly
      not good practice, even if it does "work".

    
    When I hung split-jam doors, I did all the adjustments by tacking down
    the casing at strategic points (top, middle and bottom of either side).
    When the door was plumb, I added shims (especially under each hinge,
    and above and below latch; tack in place), applied the other side of the
    jamb, nailed down all the casing, and then nailed through the jamb and
    shims into the studs for rigidity. Bass-ackwards, but it worked pretty
    well.

    
    
    
    Ref- 4584.4
    
    Only enough to fill a hole 100*100*8

Does anyone know of a good source for door hardware?

I have a large accordian-style door that used to close via a latch/handle combo
that is now broken. Grossmans wasn't much help and said Stanley doesn't carry
such hardware.

Got any ideas who might have such an item? (The current broken latch is made by
Spacesaver Corp. I tried with no luck to contact this firm.)

Brian

We need some advice on indoor "Dutch doors", i.e. the type of door that
is divided horizontally and has an upper and a lower part.

We're thinking about replacing the door to our sons room with one of 
these doors, so we can close the lower half, but would still be within 
ear/eye shot.


The question is whether:
 
	- to buy one ready made (are they sold anywhere? We're located in
	  Boxborough, [close to Acton], MA)

	- to make one ourselves (advice on the best approach is most
	  welcome)

The size of the current door is I think a standard size, 
78" high, 30"wide,1.5"thick.


Any ideas from anyone who has tried this are appreciated


Thanks
/Malin	

    They're readily available, at least as exterior doors.  I suspect
    any decent lumberyard could order one - they're in the Brosco
    catalog.  If you're not in the northeast that may not help much,
    but there's probably an equivalent distributor in other parts of 
    the country.

    Of course, it is even easier to just put a child door across the
    opening and leave the regular door open.
    
    /Charlotte

re :last - Childgate

The reason for the Dutch door was to have something high enough so
that our son can not climb over. He already at 18 months climbs
out of his crib with no effort (dont ask me how, I've not seen him
do it yet), and I'm afraid that he'll soon master the child gates too.

I'd like something sturdy enough that would not bulge if he pushes/pulls.

Thanks
/Malin

    
    The kid across the street from my folks (well, he must be 20 by now)
    used to climb over their EXTERIOR dutch door when he was just a toddler..
    not too sure it'll be worth the effort. Perhaps just a baby monitor?

    
    
    How about leg irons??...:)
    
    I dont know what the application was but I had seen once
    a screen door with the screen removed and replaced with
    wooden dowells....
    
    jd
    

    recently, I was looking for the same thing.  My 5 year old wanted to
    keep the 2 year old out, but not be shut in herself.  Child gates
    weren't doing the trick.  Since the door to her room was a flush hollow
    type, we cut it in half, intending to fill each cut end with paper and
    putty, just as if you were making a hole repair.  Then we were going to
    chisel in some new hinges, etc.  As it turns out, we decided to try out
    the idea, after cutting, and before the extra work to make it look
    nice.  As it turns out, my 5 year old was satisfied with just the
    bottom half, no fix and paint.  Since the rest of the house is in fixer
    upper shape, it is not completely out of character.  We switched door
    knobs with another door, to give her a privacy lock, since the 2 year
    old can open closed doors.  So far it's working out great.  
    
    I should note that it would be better to cut the door below the knob,
    that way my 2 year old could see in--which would be good enough for
    both, but create more work for us.  Now, of course, she gets a chair to
    step up or just bangs on the door.
    
    Also important is that my 5 year old doesn't want or need privacy at
    this point.  Sleeping with noise isn't a problem, but seeing a light on
    does bother her, she prefers darkness at night.  Also, we were planning
    to buy a six panel solid door anyway, so experimenting with the
    existing door wasn't a hardship.  The next step was to buy a glass
    atrium type door, but I was concerned about breakage, not to mention
    cost.
    
    after all this, though, my 5 year old is always bringing the little one
    in to play, anyway, so soon we may go ahead and replace the door.  But
    for now, there's no rush.
    
    Wendy

    
    The doors between my kitchen and my library (formerly a formal dining
    room) are bifold hollow core.  They 1) have not ever hung properly or
    closed tightly - the former owners used a chain lock to keep them
    closed! 2) are seriously ugly and 3) have no soundproofing capacity.
    
    Item 3 is particularly important, as I'd also like to use this room
    as office/work space.
    
    The opening is a strange size - 48".  Any suggestions on what I could
    put here?  I thought about patio doors or french doors of some kind -
    but they are rather expensive.  I have also thought about reframing and
    filling in (with what?  the jury is still out!) on both sides, like a
    sidelight on an entrance door, and hanging an interior door of a more
    standard size.
    
    Any and all suggestions are appreciated - but I AM on a limited budget.
    The lovely etched glass entrance door and sidelights I saw at home
    depot would have looked stunning - but at ~$4000, I can live with a
    simpler solution!
    
    
    					/Rita
    

    Pocket door?  Takes some work, but they're useful in lots of
    oddball situations.
    
    				Steve

    
    
    Maybe some type of 36" door and a sidelight would 
    work out for you.  The reframing wouldnt be much...
    
    JD

We had an oddball opening into a hall closet once.  We used two six-panel doors
which opened from the middle of the opening and magnetic latches on the door
frame to keep them shut.  Worked great and looked great.  For your case, I think
you can easily find two 24" doors.

-Chris

You might be able to find some used French doors, but French doors don't have
much soundproofing ability.

    
    Great ideas!
    
    re: .25 what's a pocket door?
    
    re: .26
    
    This struck me as a good solution.  The only sidelights I've seen have
    been as a set with exterior doors, and have been high $$. I don't
    really need to be paying for weatherproofing and burglerproofing, so I
    would want to look for something more appropriate for interior use. 
    I'm wondering if I could find a way to dissect the panels of one of
    those decorative bifolds (the ones with the little windows) and frame
    them in as permanent sidelights and then frame for a more standard
    sized door...
    
    re: .27  I had considered using two smaller interior doors but couldn't
    figure out a way to close them - magnetic latches is *brilliant*. 
    Where did you get the magnetic latches and how did you install them?
    (I'm guessing that the actual door framing/hanging here is
    straightforward.)  This may be the way to go..
    
    re: .28 Yeah, French doors don't offer much soundproofing, and they are
    sorta pricey.  Sure are pretty, though!
    
    As far as the actual soundproofing requirements, well, I have parrots
    in another room and I just don't want them (or other household noises)
    to be too obvious if I'm on the phone.  The rest of the room is lined
    (literally) with bookshelves and about 4-5000 books, which block the
    sound pretty well.  I think putting real doors in should just about
    solve the problem.
    
    					/Rita
    

Pocket doors slide into the wall.  They won't work if you don't have enough
width on both sides.

On our double doors, the magnets were mounted to the door casing at the top, and
the little metal plates were mounted onto the doors to meet up with the magnets.
It's a hardware setup that you can get at most any hardware store.  Good luck
with the project!

-Chris

    
    re: .30  Wouldn't work - I have other doors with 24" on either side of
    this one.
    
    re: .31 Cool!
    
    						/R
    

    Consider the PITTSBURGH GLASS BLOCKS for your privacy screening 
    section.

    
    OOOH! Jacqui, you've hit on something here!  When I was looking for
    shelving for the "paperback" section of the library, I found that most
    bookshelves wasted LOTS of space if you were storing paperbacks.... so...
    
    I built "modified collegiate" shelving with lengths of white
    melmine(sp?) shelf boards stacked with 8" glass paver blocks, one on
    each end and one in the center for 72" shelves.  (Fortunately
    paperbacks don't weigh too much - no sag so far!)  Perfect
    for 7" paperbacks, ran 'em all the way up one wall, and ended with the
    rounded glass end units as "bookends" for the top shelf.  Looks great,
    works well as long as you're careful about leveling.  
    
    So, glass blocks as the sidelight section would (gasp) *match*.
    
    Geesh, you're a smart woman!  
    
    					/R
    

    	I'm looking into doing some remodeling and want to know if
    the things I want done are simple enough for amatures.
    	
    	-Remove front door in living room, this door is presently on
    	 my closed in porch.
    
    	-Remove a french door that seperates the living room from the
         dining room.
    
    	-rebuild the walls where these doors were.
    
    	-remove a window in the dining room, this is also on the closed
    	 in porch, and put a dutch door in place of the window.
    
    	-There is a forced hot air vent right under this window, it is
    	 a vent that sucks air in to recirculate the heat.
    
    The effect I want is a more closed in living room, meaning more wall
    space and next year I will be making my kitchen larger by expanding
    outward into the dining room.  So now my front door would enter into
    the kitchen not the living room.  Is this worth giving a try or should
    somebody be hired?  Any replies would be appreciated either through
    here or my mail account.			Thanks Sue Fleck
    						WMOIS::FLECK_S

	Sue,

	    I've done some amateur carpentry.  If you're pretty handy and
	have some DIYer books, you can save a lot of $$$ doing these jobs
	yourself.  Realise that a pro would finish the job in a fraction
	of the time it will take you.  Us amateurs have to figure things
	out as we go along, and correct our mistakes.  But I hate paying
	somebody for something I can do myself.
	    The FHA return duct sounds like a problem if you have to move
	it.  You might be able to mount a grate where (I'm assuming) the
	baseboard register is.  That would be a lot easier than rerouting
	the ductwork.
	    Bottom line:  You're in for a big job and your house is gonna
	look like hell until you finish it.

					Tim

    Sue,
    
    Do you have anyone to help you out?  Some jobs (removing a window, for
    example, or hanging drywall) are really 2-person jobs.  Sometimes
    you're lucky and the other person will have complementary knowledge to
    your own.  
    
    Another thing you might do is call in a couple of contractors for
    estimates.  Follow them around as you explain what you want done and
    ask them how they'd do it.  You can learn a lot from the pros this way.
    Not only that, but you'll be able to decide if the pain of doing it
    yourself is worth the savings. 
    
    Dana

Turning doors/windows into a wall are a piece of cake, the reverse is usually
more work...

To do the former, all you really need to do is:

	o	remove the moldings
	o	if replacing a door, you should probably also remove the
		baseboard so you can put in one continuous piece and avoid
		seam lines
	o	cut the nails holding the door/window in.  these are almost
		exclusively on the sides only and if you can get your hands on
		a sawzall with a hacksaw blade, this literally takes a couple of
		minutes
	o	remove the door/window
	o	build an interbal frame out of 2X4's
	o	install wallboard
	o	apply jointing compound/skim coat depending on what's already
		there
	o	paint
	o	install baseboard (if replaced a door)
	o	have a glass of wine!

The jointing compound/skim coat is the toughest (at least for me) and I've
always hired someone to do it as I KNOW I can't do as good a job as them. I'd
suspect if you had several openings to cover, someone could do it for you for
somewhere in the $100 range... 

-mark

    I think you're being optimistic about "$100 range," as the person will
    have to charge for travel and setup time, even if the job itself
    doesn't take all that long.  But even at that it shouldn't be too
    expensive.  And I'm with you - it's one of those jobs I'll pay a
    pro to do because 1) I'm not very good at it and 2) I don't
    particularly enjoy doing it anyway.

    I would suggest you at least try doing the skim coating yourself.
    Women tend to be able to do this easier than men 'cause of all 
    our cooking experience and ironing.  Think of it as pastry or
    smoothing on frosting on a cake!  Don't pay the bucks to someone
    when you can do it yourself!!!

    justme....jacqui

    
   Don't pay the bucks to someone when you can do it yourself!
    
    True.  The local baker wanted $35 for a Thomas the Tank Engine
    birthday cake so I made it myself.  I even let the wife help.
    
    ;-}
    
    

    
    	Thanks for all the info, especially the steps on how to do it! I
    will be able to get help from my boyfriend so there will be two 
    people to work at it.  A friend said he'd loan me a milwakee(?)sawsall.
    The only thing I don't understand in the step by step instructions, is
    how do you put a frame up?  I will be getting a contractor to come and
    give me an estimate and if its reasonable I might consider paying to
    have it done.  Only because I know that my house will probably be in
    shambles for a few weekends if we do it, a contractor could do it 
    while I'm at work.  Thanks again for all your input!
    							Sue Fleck

    
.42>  The only thing I don't understand in the step by step instructions, is
.42?  how do you put a frame up?
    
    
        -----------------------------      When you remove the door, you
                                           will have a hole in the wall that
                .-------------.            looks like the figure at left,
                |             |            with a cross section as shown
                |             |            below:
                |             |                  
                |             |                  wallboard
                |             |                  ,---^---.
                |             |                 XX|     |XX
                |             |                 XX| 2x4 |XX
                |             |                 XX| or  |XX
                |             |                 XX| 2x3 |XX
                |             |                 XX|     |XX
        ________|             |______
    
    
    
        -----------------------------      Using studs of the same width
                                           (X in this diagram), completely
                .-------------.            outline the hole, then add
                |XXXXXXXXXXXXX|            verticals at maximum 16"
                |X   X   X   X|            horizontal intervals. The more
                |X   X   X   X|            closely you align this new wood
                |X   X   X   X|            with what's already in the wall,
                |X   X   X   X|            the easier will be your wallboard
                |X   X   X   X|            job.
                |X   X   X   X|            
                |X   X   X   X|            Screw on a chunk of wallboard,
                |X   X   X   X|            apply self-stick nylon mesh tape
                |X   X   X   X|            to the seams, add three coats of
        ________|XXXXXXXXXXXXX|______      joint compound, two coats of
                                           paint, and baseboard.
    

>    will be able to get help from my boyfriend so there will be two 

	   Careful.  These jobs are not usually conducive to harmonious
	relationships.  8^)
					Tim

    
    Hi, I have a couple questions concerning interior door hinges.  I want
    to replace our interior doors, which are hollow luan and are supported
    by three hinges, with solid 6 panel doors.  Since the door is solid,
    do I need 2 or 3 hinges?  I would prefer 2, as I believe is would be
    easier to hang a door with 2 hinges rather than 3.  Is this correct?
    
    Also, are there any special tricks or techniques in using the existing
    hinges and attaching them to the door?  (I don't know what the correct
    terminology is for making the cut on the door edge.)  Is it better to
    buy new hinges instead of using the existing door hinges?
    
    How do you know how deep to make the cut for the hinge?  Is it a matter of 
    experience and best judgment?  Is there any tool that is used just for this?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Eleanor
                      

    
    If you're just replacing the door panel (ie, not the frame), I would
    think the easiest procedure would be to use the old door panel as a
    template for preparing the new door (lockset position as well as hinge
    position) and stick with three hinges.
    
    It's amazing how much heavier a solid core door is than a hollow core.
    Besides, if you remove a hinge, you have an ugly hole to patch in the
    door frame -- not impossible (been there, done that), but also not high
    on my list of elective indoor activities. Unless the hinges are
    excessively worn or unacceptably coated with paint/stain/varnish, re-use
    them; otherwise, buy three new hinges.
    
    The accepted method for cutting the inset for the hinge plates on the door
    is with a router and a template; it's fairly simple to construct a template
    from scraps of plywood. The insets can also be cut with a good sharp
    chisel and patience. The right depth is the thickness of the hinge
    plate.
    
    This is how I would proceed:
    
      1.  Unscrew the old door panel from the hinges; leave the hinges
          screwed to the door frame (or replace them with the new
          hinges).
    
      2.  Carefully position and cut all three insets and the lockset holes.
    
      3.  Remove the pin from the top hinge on the door frame, and mount
          the freed hingle plate on the new door panel
    
      4.  With someone else holding the door in position, line up the
          plates of the top hinge and reinsert the pin, then attach the
          other two hinges to the door. Your new door is now as perfectly
          aligned as was it predecessor.
    

The heavier the door, the more hinges you need.  You can get by with two
on a hollow-core door, but need 3 on any kind of solid door.

				Steve

    
    
    O.K., thanks for the info.
    
    Eleanor

Er, a couple of points which seemed to be lacking in the descriptions
which you might well want to consider, since this is apparently an
exterior wall -

        o Sheath the outside after framing
	o Apply siding to the sheathing
	o Insulate and vapor barrier after framing and before
	  sheetrocking

    I'm in the process of replacing some hollow-core luan doors with some
    solid 6-panel pine doors. Since the openings appear to be fairly plumb,
    I'm simply replacing the slabs as opposed to the jambs & casing. Using
    the old doors as a template, things are going pretty smoothly.
    
    A question, however, based some comments I've read in this note: How
    succeptable are solid pine doors to warping? The luan doors seem to be
    pretty true, and none of the six have ever stuck, even the ones exposed
    to the bathroom moisture. What steps can I take to minimize the
    likelihood of warping? If it matters, we plan to paint the doors white
    to match the trim throughout the house. Also if it matters, I'm in
    E.Mass, and the weather is expected to be hot and muggy for the next
    few days. Will that cause me a problem?
    
    Thanks in advance.    

Paneled doors are especially susceptible to warping.  Not only that, but the
panels will shrink and expand at a different rate than the frame.  To minimize
problems, seal all surfaces of the door, including the edges. 

You should wait until the weather dries out for a few days before painting
or sealing the wood.

			Steve

	The 'paneled' door was developed intentionally to reduce the
effects of wood expansion/contraction.  Note that this is different
from 'warping' - that usually refers to a distortion out of plane.
All wood products will expand and contract due to relative humitidy
changes - if this makes the door larger than the opening, it'll stick.
When it shrinks, the gaps get bigger.

	Wood expands not much at all along the grain - the boards
don't get longer.  It expands most along the growth rings, and less
radially (in the original tree orientation).  Hence the paneled door.
The long vertical stiles don't change length - the door doesn't get
taller or shorter.  The stiles are narrow, and connected by horizontal
rails - which won't change length, so you only get the width change due
to the stile width, which isn't much.  Filling the gaps you use panels,
which can and will expand and contract across themselves, but since they
float in grooved borders, you don't care much.  You can get unstained
areas of these showing up (if you stained when they were 'wet' - in the
summer) so it's best to stain when the door is good and dry (winter).

	If you're fitting a wood panelled door in this weather, let the
door adjust to your room climate first (week or two) and then install it
with the gaps minimized - it'll get smaller next winter.  If you install
in winter, do the opposite - leave the gaps larger, cause the door will
expand a bit - no matter what the finish.  You can slow all this down
with a good finish, but you'll never stop it.  Pay particular attention
to the end grain of the stiles (top and bottom of the door) - soak in 
a good coat or two of primer here, and be sure to finish paint it as well.
If you have to trim during installation, be sure to refinish those areas.

	If you are painting anyway, and don't insist on perfect realism,
and would like to save some money, you can buy masonite-skin doors that
are molded to look like a panel door.  Some are more realistic than others,
but all are more stable and nearly half the price of pine or fir, mostly
sold as 'stain-grade'.  When I had to purchase 15 doors for my addition,
I started out wanting real-wood, but had to compromise when I discovered
that pine was $100 each and the fakes were $50.  They come pre-primed, too.

    Dave et al,
    
    thanks for the educational replies. I'm allowing the doors to get
    acclimated to the house conditions sort of by default...I'm doing one
    door per evening, and since I bought them last Friday, they'll have
    from 4-10 days to acclimate.
    
    Regarding stain vs paint, my wife is having second thoughts now that
    she has seen a couple of the installed. We still plan to paint over the
    dark-stained pine woodwork with some sort of white paint, but she is
    considering staining the doors in a honey-color pine in contract to the
    white trim. Not sure if we'll go thru with it, though, as we'd first
    like to see an example or picture of such a treatment. Oh well, since
    she's the painter in the family, I'll let her make the call.
    
    As far as solid vs masonite 6-panel doors is concerned, after wasting a
    trip to the Grossman Bargain Outlet to check out their $49 solid doors
    (everything in stock that day was trashed...) I hit Home Depot and found 
    some nice doors for approx $70/each. I checked out the masonite versions, 
    which were about half the cost, but decided against them. However, we are 
    considering them, due to their lighter weight, when we get around to 
    replacing the sliding closet doors, which are currently hollow luans.
    
    Again, thanks for the replies.
    
    Freddie

	Some of the price differentials are whether you're quoting
slabs, slabs with knob bores, or prehungs (split or solid jambs).

	Unless you're buying the common sizes, you almost always do
better ordering from a specialty place rather than a home supermarket.
There's one in Nashua called Fairview Millwork, Rivco is another.
You should be able to get just what you want, without damage, and
in just the sizes you need - usually by 2" increments.  Despite what
their ads and signs might say, the megastores almost always panic if
you want something that's not already on the shelf - the good guys
will happily vary jambs, thresholds, whatever, and will give a discount
for any reasonable size purchase.

	Of course, you can get occasional deals at the bargain places
and HD/HQ, but they're typically out of stock on the size you want,
and you usually compromise on some option or other.  I do use the bargains
for stuff like garages, though.

	Stained doors with painted jambs look ok - I've done this with
rooms that have stained trim but a hallway with painted trim.  From the
hall side, you get the mixed effect with the door closed.  I was going
to split the door - stain one side, and paint the other, but since the
doors are usually open, the painted side in the stained room looks funny.
Consider the normal 'state' of your door, and go for that look.

You may want to consider the paint v. stain decision from a maintenance
perspective as well.  Most of the wear & tear (i.e., bangs & dents) in a doorway
occurs on the jambs and trim, not on the door itself.  If your jambs are
painted, the wear & tear will be more noticeable over time (in the form of
chipped paint) than if the jambs are stained.

So, if you have a choice about what to paint and what to stain, it's better to
stain the jamb & trim and to paint the door.

-Chris

    	Someone will correct me if I'm wrong ;-), but I thought that the
    solid doors were supposed to have free moving panels to help allow for
    expansion/contraction. Wouldn't painting, in effect, lock the panels in
    place, to some degree, and possibly result in potential problems over
    time ?
    
    	I would think that a stain or tung oil finish would be a better
    long run approach, especially on new doors. My house has solid wood
    doors that are painted, and the paint usually cracks around the panel
    edges, and in some cases, cracks the panel itself.
    
    	Ray

    Well,
    
    my preference would be to stain everything, but unfortunately the trim
    throughout this level of the house is dark-stained pine. My wife and I
    are trying to lighten up the house, so the dark trim has got to go. The
    options as I see it are:
    	
    	1) replace all the trimwork, including fireplace mantel and windows, 
    	with new trim and use a light stain.
    
    	2) sand all the trim to bare wood and use a light stain.
    
    	3) wimp out and paint all of the trim with the color of her choice.
    
    Options 1 & 2, I would think, are either too expensive or too
    impractical, so we're focusing on #3. However, since the new doors look
    so good, especially against the old, dark trim, it would kill me to
    paint them...hence we're trying to envision how stained doors would
    look amidst painted trim. 
    
    Thanks for the comments so far...I look forward to more.
    
    Freddie

    I think the stained doors would look great against the painted trim. 
    If your house has a "Country" decor this would compliment that look.
    
    It would be similar to the tables/chairs/etc with the wood tops and
    painted legs/skirts/chair backs.
    
    Go for it!
    
    Linda

    	It's a matter of personal preference, but I too like that look.
    I've refinished some bureaus by painting them all except for the top
    and drawer fronts, which I either stained and/or poly'd after sanding
    them. Looked pretty cool if I do say so myself ;-)
    
    	Ray

>     paint them...hence we're trying to envision how stained doors would
>     look amidst painted trim. 
    
    Do up one door as a test, and live with it for awhile. If you like
    it, then continue, if not, then you can paint the door.

    Charly

    When my wife and I remodeled our dinning and living room we replaced
    all the trim with that decoritve milled molding. We painted the 
    middle (designed part) and stained the outside edges.  Then we 
    stained the doors.  The paint realy sets off the wallpaper and doors.
    We only did this on the trim around the doors and stained the floor
    trim.  It was a lot of extra work but it added a lot to the rooms.  
    It turned out so well that the family and play rooms get it next.  
    
    
    Gary
    

    
    Appreciate if anyone can help me. I have (according to my wife) to
    replace the wooden sliding doors in our bedroom closet. She wants
    mirror sliders. OK...took the measurements and went to the local HD and
    HQ stores. Then I found that I have a "New England" thing....a closet
    opening that is a couple of inches less (height) than "standard".
    "Only happens here" said the "expert" gleefully !  "OK" I said, "YOU
    are trading here...so show me your range of 78" opening sliders"
    "Don't have none" he said...."You can order them special for about
    3 x the regular cost.....Sir....Sir....where are you going Sir"???
    
    So...anyone got info on outlets in New England where they sell doors
    that fit New England holes ? !!!!!
    
    Thanks in anticipation.....yes, I can see me knocking 2 inches out of
    the wall above....VERY soon !
    
    Trevor

The New England method is to get the smaller size door and use sticks of wood
from a pallet to close it in :-)

bjm

re: odd size doors  <<< Note 590.287 by PATE::POUNDER >>>

i do not know where to get them, either.

here is another approach, probably easier than enlarging the opening.

mount mirrors on the existing doors.
you will probably have to replace the fixture on the floor
that guides the doors.
there is a slight chance that the hangers can be adjusted far enough
to clear the thicker door.  if not just move the tracks.

also, ask some local places.  those chains often do all their buying
from one place, with little or no concern for regional differences.

 Hi Trevor,
             If you go to a regular lumber yard/hardware store (i.e. not
HD,HQ) you should be able to order what you want for the same $ as the
"standard" sizes..

Dave

    
    Also, all solid core/wood door panels rate how much can be safely cut
    from bottom/top/sides.  Often you can cut 2" from the bottom of panels
    of a 6'8" panel -- which is by far the most common height.  Try looking
    in a Brosco catalog available from most Lumber stores -- they'll have a
    list of the available door panel sizes which might include the size 
    you need, but if not, then each door also lists how much can be cut off
    from each edge of the door.  Between selecting the closest size panel
    size and cutting you can get just about any size you need.
    
    

    
    Thanks for the replies. Yeah, saw the possibility of cutting from the
    bottom of wooden sliders, actually thought some of the louvre style
    doors looked pretty good...but when did I get any say in the choice 
    huh !!!!  Plenty choices, still haven't discounted cutting 2 ins at the
    top of the opening, doesn't look like this is "supporting" anything so
    I suppose it should be relatively easy. 
    
    One option I don't have is to cover the existing doors with mirrors.
    these things are very thick, solid and heavy. Wouldn't get away with
    adding more to either the width or the weight.
    
    Thanks again for the suggestions
    Trevor