[Search for users] [Overall Top Noters] [List of all Conferences] [Download this site]

Conference 7.286::home_work

Title:Home_work
Notice:Check Directory (6.3) before writing a new note
Moderator:CSLALL::NASEAM::READIO
Created:Tue Nov 05 1991
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2100
Total number of notes:78741

174.0. "Elevator topic" by FOUNDR::DODIER (Single Income, Clan'o Kids) Tue Mar 05 1996 13:09

    	Moved the Elevator note here to make room for a new roof topic that 
    was found mixed in with the ceramic tile note.
    
    	Ray
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
174.1Elevators?ELWOOD::LANEFri Jul 12 1991 15:2222
Anybody have any experience with elevators in a house?

I'm in the process of redoing a major portion of a two-level ranch. One
of the parts that's not completely settled yet is what to do with the
stairs between the two levels.

When the house was built, the lower level was a basement with ground
level windows on one side. The stairs are fairly steep and cramped.
I have since remodeled the lower level and would like to "do" something
with the stairs.

The allowable space is too narrow for a spiral and I don't have enough
headroom for a landing. Ripping out floor joists to provide a wider hole
is possible but something I'd rather avoid. I'm kind of stuck with what I
have.

I'm not particularly opposed to building my own elevator although my better
half will probably have a fit...  Jeez, I can just hear it now.

Any ideas? Thoughts?

Mickey.
174.2KOALA::DIAMONDNo brag, Just fact.Fri Jul 12 1991 16:229
    
    I think if you build your own elevator it's going to have to meet some
    kind of code. It seems a little ridiculas to me. The money you invest
    in buying/building one will never be recooped. It's putting a indoor
    pool in 2 bedroom ranch. In fact the elevator may hinder any future
    sales of the house. I know I wouldn't want one. Especially a home made
    one that I can't get parts for.
    
    Mike
174.3QUARK::LIONELFree advice is worth every centFri Jul 12 1991 17:196
There are companies which sell elevators made for home use - primarily
intended for people who might have trouble climbing stairs.  I think
Inclinette is one such.  They advertise in magazines such as "Architectural
Digest", "Smithsonian", etc.

				Steve
174.4ELWOOD::LANEFri Jul 12 1991 17:2714
re units for disabled people...

My wife saw one such ad and called an 800 number for info. Nothing has
arrived yet. The things they were showing didn't look like anything we
could use but who knows, maybe they market other things too. After all,
there's gotta be people out there crazy enough to do this.

Mickey.




ps. John wins a cookie for pointing out that I have been working on
the TF857 entirely too long    :-)
174.5Another project in the making?ELWOOD::LANESat Jul 13 1991 13:5551
You're not gonna believe this....

I went home and talked with my wife about building our own elevator and she
says "Hey, that's a neat idea. We can fix it so that the upstairs entry
is ..." Either she's as crazy as I am - a distinct possibility - or maybe
it's not such a bad idea after all.


Re .1

>I think if you build your own elevator it's going to have to meet some
>kind of code.

In Massachusetts? Nah. :-)

>The money you invest in buying/building one will never be recooped.

You may be right. On the other hand, there are relatively few houses suitable
for disabled people. In any event, I'm building this because _I_ live there,
not some other guy.

>It's putting a indoor pool in 2 bedroom ranch.

We've already had that. When we were converting from septic to sewer, we had
to dig up the basement (with a sledge hammer!) and re-run all the sewer lines
since the septic was out back and the sewer was/is in front. While digging
a 9' ditch to the street, we hit a creek at a depth of 5'. This resulted in
a mad scramble to the inside with said sledge hammers to punch a hole in the
back of the house to let the water out. Fun day.

>I know I wouldn't want one. Especially a home made one that I can't get
>parts for.

You may not have any sense of adventure but you do have a good point about
the parts problem.

I'm not convinced that I'm going to do this but I am going to look into
it more seriously. Maybe do a couple of drawings....Hmmmmm.

In order for it to work, it would have to have two doors - front entry and
rear exit. Either that or the upstairs entry would be in a little alcove off
of the living room. The latter is probably too weird.

It's only got to travel 10' or so. Perhaps a hydrulic piston operating lifting
cables. The motor/pump bit would be simple. Need to come up with a pressure
release, emergency release and holding valves....


I think maybe I'll talk to some elevator companies before I do anything.

Mickey.
174.6shouldn't there be stairs as well as an elevator?RGB::SEILERLarry SeilerSun Jul 14 1991 23:4632
.0 seems to imply that the elevator would *replace* the stairway.
I seriously doubt that it would be allowable to have an elevator
as the only access from the 2nd level down to the first level,
unless there is a door to the outside from the second level.

Even if it were allowed, I wonder if it's really desirable.
For those able to use stairways, I would think that the most 
convenient possible elevator wouldn't be as convenient as the 
least convenient stairway for going up just 10'.  It would take
quite a while to change floors, especially if the elevator is
on the wrong floor to start with.  Of course, if the primary
purpose of travelling between floors is to haul gear, or for
disabled access, that's another story.

Are there other places where a stairway could be installed?
For example, could it be relocated to a space currently
occupied by a closet, which could be moved to where the
stairway is at present?  Can the stairway be modified to
provide more headroom?  For example, I'm installing a
built-in bench seat in my upstairs bathroom to provide more
headroom for a stairway that was formerly an attic stair.

One final point.  When I moved into my current house, I felt
that the stairway was too steep and narrow.  It is steeper and
narrower than the code allows, but I've gotten used to the
steepness and don't notice it much anymore.  As for the
narrowness, open railings at top and bottom help a lot to
minimize that problem, so long you don't try to pass anyone
on the stairs.

	Just some thoughts,
	Larry Seiler
174.7reference :-)TOOK::ROSENBAUMRich RosenbaumMon Jul 15 1991 02:117
    I'm sure the Otis Elevator Company would do a one-off for you.  I seem
    to recall that they built a _three_ step escalator for some Middle
    Eastern sheik.  Of course, your financial resources may be more limited
    :-).
    
    Rich
    
174.8Ever heard of "Energy Conservation?"NOVA::FISHERRdb/VMS DinosaurMon Jul 15 1991 11:054
    I suppose it would be a waste of time to point out that this is a waste
    of Energy?
    
    ed
174.9FLOWER::HILDEBRANTI'm the NRAMon Jul 15 1991 11:073
    Re: .7
    
    Yes
174.10VERGA::WELLCOMESteve Wellcome (Maynard)Mon Jul 15 1991 11:365
    You could probably adapt a hydraulic car lift.  
    
    I think the point about there also being a code requirement for
    stairs is probably correct though.  Remember all those signs
    on public elevators, "In case of fire use the stairs"?
174.11????NOVA::FISHERRdb/VMS DinosaurMon Jul 15 1991 13:005
    Also, how do you get up/down if there's a power failure (and a severe
    storm outside) or how do you get up/down FAST to help someone in an
    emergency.
    
    ed
174.12Elevator vs stationary forkliftSEESAW::PILANTL. Mark Pilant, VMS SecurityMon Jul 15 1991 14:5910
You could also use a stationary forklift.  I had a friend who built a fixed
skid for his so he could get from the first floor to his basement in his
wheelchair.  It wasn't all that big, and used electric motors powered by large
lead acid batteries.  These batteries were on a constant charge system.  It
worked very well.

He also has stairs.  I'm not sure what BOCA has to say, but I'm sure the code
covers this situation.

- Mark
174.13Here's a sourceFRITOS::TALCOTTMon Jul 15 1991 15:1010
Advertised in Forbes, 8-Jul-91, p. 123
     Inclinator Company of America
     Dept. 7
     P.O. Box 1557
     Harrisburg, Pa.
		17105-1557

The ad is for a residential custom-built elevator.

						Trace
174.14ELWOOD::LANEMon Jul 15 1991 15:4228
An update:

There are a dozen or so elevator companies listed in the Worcester phone
book. A lot of them mention residential equipment. I plan to call one or
more as I get a chance.

We have two or three info packs "in the mail" - mostly from people advertising
things for handicapped people. I don't recal the company names off hand.
An ad in Yankee had a rather interesting picture. The car looked about the
size of a phone booth. There was no shaft - just a hole in the floor in a
corner. The roof of the booth appears to become the floor of the upper story
when in the down position. The floor of the booth becomes the ceiling when
up. There are two tracks of some sort attached to the wall. I don't see
much use for it - it's too small for a wheel chair. You couldn't carry
anything while using it.


Re stairs in case of fire...

There is an exterior door on the lower level about 15 feet from the potential
elevator location. (The grade along the entire rear of the house matches the
inside floor level.) There are two exterior doors on the upper level. There
is an outside stairway leading from the lower level to the upper.

Re emergency release...

I am not sure but I think any elevator must have some means of escape in case
of power failure.
174.15SASE::SZABOI, HavkivsMon Jul 15 1991 15:535
    The turbulence from a heavy-duty model air shredder....
    
    Nah, nevermind!  :-)
    
    John
174.16VMSDEV::HAMMONDCharlie Hammond -- ZKO3-04/S23 -- dtn 381-2684Mon Jul 15 1991 18:3115
      Another  aspect of the "elevator but no stairs" situation is this:
      Sooner or later you will want to move something from one floor  to
      the other that is too big or too heavy for what I would consider a
      reasonable size home elevator.  e.g. A queen size bed; a  roll  of
      carpeting;  a  large  refrigerator.   In your case you can take it
      outside, around the house, and back in on the other level.  But do
      you want a situation in which you have to do that?
      
      Another  thought  --  check  with  your  insurance  agent on how a
      home-build elevator will effect your homeowner's insurance.  (with
      or without a stairs.)
      
      I  know  that this project sounds like lots of fun, but, if you're
      like me your home is your biggest asset.  Do you  really  want  to
      mess around with it like this?
174.17ELWOOD::LANEMon Jul 15 1991 18:438
>      I  know  that this project sounds like lots of fun, but, if you're
>      like me your home is your biggest asset.  Do you  really  want  to
>      mess around with it like this?

Well put. With the exception of a shed, all of the major work done to date
has had the right permits and been inspected. While I'm certainly having fun
with this, _if_ I do put something in, mine or someone else's, it will be
done right and inspected.
174.18Why not spiral?SNAX::HURWITZMon Jul 15 1991 21:3815
>The allowable space is too narrow for a spiral and I don't have enough
>headroom for a landing. Ripping out floor joists to provide a wider hole
>is possible but something I'd rather avoid. I'm kind of stuck with what I
>have.
    
    What about a spiral that runs outside?  I know I've seen houses that
    have a spiral stair in what from the outside looks like a half round
    column.  Doesn't seem like it would cost more than an elevator.
    (I picture a fully weather tight semi circular column with a couple
     octagonal windows on each floor)
    
    Would make the house kind of contemporary looking and would take up
    almost no interior space.
    
    Just a thought...... Steve
174.19re: External spiral stairsRANGER::PESENTIOnly messages can be draggedTue Jul 16 1991 10:278
There is a large gambrel near our house that has a "silo" in the front near
the main entry.  It houses a spiral staircase.  No windows gives the entire
place a farm/barn look.  It fits the neighborhood well, and doesn't look as 
ugly as it sounds. I suppose the same idea could be used with a lift.

All this talk reminds me of the final scene in "Suddenly Last Summer" when 
a rather insane Katherine Hepburn exits the scene on an exquisite chair 
elevator...
174.20ELWOOD::LANEMon Jul 22 1991 16:556
Well, the mailed advertising showed up. One of the offerings is exactly
what I had in mind to build so I guess it's safe to say I'll be buying
something or leaving well enough alone.

I haven't had time to get any prices yet. I'll report when I get a chance
to write up a decent note. (It's kinda busy around here...)
174.21Serious bucksELWOOD::LANETue Jul 30 1991 17:5364
I finally managed to call Whitakers - a manufacturer of stair lifts
and residential elevators. I talked to Steve Melinack (WAG on the sp).
He turned out to be very helpful and gave me prompt and complete
answers. He works for the Holliston, Ma office at 1-800-752-0163.
There are apparently offices in most of the north east states.

The catalogue that I received shows a number of stair lifts. They can
be installed in a variety of existing stairways and I guess are designed
for people who have trouble climbing. Most are for people who are not
wheelchair bound; there are a few that will transport the chair as well.
I did not inquire about their prices.

There are a couple of exterior wheelchair lifts shown. I did not inquire
about them either.

We talked mostly about the "Minivator" and the residence elevator. The
Minivator is - for lack of a better description - a phone booth that
rides a track between two floors. When up, the bottom of the phone
booth is the ceiling of the room below. When down, the roof of the
thing is the floor of the upper room. There is no enclosed shaft. There
are a number of sizes. The largest is designed to accommodate an electric
wheelchair. Prices range from 13k to 15k depending on size. You have
to contract (or whatever) with someone else to have it installed.
It's rated at 450 lbs.

The residence elevator looks exactly like what I would have built had
I attempted to do anything. From the exterior, the doors look like any
other in the house. (The doors are probably not part of what Whitackers
sells - they would be provided by the installer) There are some type
of closure devices fitted and some type of latch to lock the door when
the car is elsewhere.

The car has one or two grill type gates. I was asking about the model
with two. I expect the model with one is cheaper. It requires an installed
shaft and a 6" pit at the bottom. The hoisting motor (230v) is located
in a separate "room" from the shaft. I expect he used this terminology
to indicate that some 3 or 4 feet of floor space are required in addition
to the footprint of the car and shaft. The car's floor dimensions are
3' x 4'. The cost estimate is 17-19k. It's rated at either 500 or 750 lbs. 

I asked about Massachusetts codes and he gave a lengthy explanation that
I didn't catch some of that basically boils down to "it's ok by Mass
if you install it this way but you have to get a variance if you want
to do it that way..."  Apparently Mass elevator codes are in a state of
flux and until they adopt the national code....   Same ol' story.

At the close of the conversation, Mr. Melinack volunteered to send whatever
technical information I wanted including all dimensions and something like
a site prep guide. I said "Ok".

I think the $19,000 pretty much kills the plan. For the time being, we're
getting ready to sheetrock things pretty much they way they are in the
stairway area since it doesn't commit us or prohibit us from doing
something in the future. I'm going to give some serious thought to Steve
Hurwitz's idea about the exterior stair and what could be done. The
appearances of such a thing are not as major a factor as they could be
since it would be on the back of the house.

Anybody want to speculate on why these guys charge so much?



Now all I have to do is find the guy who sold me a 28 oz framing hammer.
My elbow is killing me. (...but them nails are _not_ coming out!)
174.22KOALA::DIAMONDNo brag, Just fact.Tue Jul 30 1991 18:567
    
>>Anybody want to speculate on why these guys charge so much?
    
    I suspect that it's a very low volumn business. Also there are probably
    insurance liability costs added to the price.
    
    Mike
174.23SUBWAY::SAPIENZAKnowledge applied is wisdom gained.Thu Aug 01 1991 15:446
    
       I would think also that the majority of people that install one
    of these have some medical reason for doing so. If that's the case,
    then either a) it's a deductible expense, or b) their insurance pays
    for it.