Conference 7.286::home_work

The house I moved into this year has a room air conditioner in the 
wall of one room.  Since I put in Central air, and since this unit is 
about ready to die, I'd like to remove it.  However, this will leave 
me with an unsightly and poorly insulated 18" x 27" hole in my wall.
How do I fill this hole in?

thanx in advance

1. Install an 18" x 27" window.  Only a good idea if you want to have a 
   window there, and if it wouldn't look ridiculous in comparison with the 
   house's existing windows.

2. Install a window greenhouse or some such thing, again made to fit the 
   existing opening.  Same concerns as #1 above.

3. To make the hole disappear entirely:
   - Nail short 2x4s around the hole's framing, to give you something to 
     nail things to.  Also toenail a 2x4 to run down the center of the hole.
   - Cut a piece of 1/2" plywood to fit and nail it to the 2x4s from the 
     outside.
   - Install siding or whatever to match the existing exterior treatment of 
     the house.  Assuming it's clapboards, it'll look better if you remove 
     adjacent clapboards and span the hole, rather than just putting in patches.
   - From the inside, insulate between the 2x4s.
   - Cut drywall to fit and screw it to the 2x4s.
   - Paint to match the existing wall treatment.

   Adjust materials, dimensions, etc. to match your house.

4. The above suggestions take advantage of the strong framing that's
   already in place to support the air conditioner, and to support the
   weight of the house above the hole.  Other options involve enlarging or
   shrinking the hole.  Shrinking is easier; both are more difficult than 
   the above suggestions.

    Hang a picture over it.

>    Hang a picture over it.

I can just see the future entry in "Why did they ever do that":

"Can you believe they just HUNG A PICTURE over...."

Paul

    We need to buy a room air conditioner for my daughters room.
    The room is upstairs in our cape and is about 16' x 14'.
    
    Could use advice on room air conditioners, it should have a
    110v plug.  Not sure about best models and BTUs.  Also any
    models that should be avoided.  What about service contracts,
    would you recommend it?  Any good places to buy an AC in the
    rt. 9 / rt. 495 area?
    
    I know nothing about ACs.  Thanks for any advice.
    
    BTW I looked thru the AC directory and there is nothing on room
    AC, it is all central AC and whole house fans.
    
    Mark.

    
    Several years ago we bought a Friedrich based on research we had
    done. The primary research was with consumer reports. The issues
    were
    Efficiency. (many electrical appliances -including A.C.s- must publish
    their Energy Efficiency Rating (E.E.R ). The more efficient they
    are, the less energy they consume.
    Price/performance
    We use the "13,900" (BTUs?) model to cool the entire down stairs of
    our 2 story cape. It has an E.E.R of 9.6, i believe.
    I don't remember the research in any more detail than above, and
    would urge you to go to your local library to "reproduce" my research.
    
    
    				good luck
    				herb
        
	

    THIS IS BEING DISCUSSED IN NOTE 2389.
    

>    THIS IS BEING DISCUSSED IN NOTE 2389.
    
I think 2389 is specifically concerned with how to size an A/C unit to a room, 
while this note seems to be more about what brands to buy.  I think it's useful 
to have both discussions, and also useful to keep them in separate topics.

Paul

    I'm no expert since I just bought a unit for our bedroom yesterday.
    
    I went with a Whirlpool (I like their products.) It's 5000 BTU which
    is plenty for our 11x14 bedroom. (The author of .1 may need 7,500.)
    It has three settings: low, medium, high. It also has a fan-only
    setting and it is thermostatically controlled. (We didn't want a unit 
    that would run continually all night long and freeze us up!) It
    also has an "exhaust" which is designed to draw all the hot air
    from the room before cooling so the unit isn't working so hard to
    cool hot air.
    
    Installation was a breeze and it kept us cool and dry all last night.
    I got it at Cuomo's in Nashua for $248.00. 
    
    Good luck,
    Mike

    The current issue of Consumer's Reports rates small air conditioners.
    
    Incidentally, last week I bought a model from Montgomery Wards because
    they had a $100 off sale!!!!  The sale may still be on.  One of
    their lines is built by Mastsushita, which makes Panasonic and Quasar
    brands.
    
    Roger
    

    We bought the 6000 btu Whirlpool from Coumos two days ago.  It works
    quite well for our 10x12 (approx) room.  It has a 9 EER as opposed
    to the 5000 btus 6.5 EER.  It turns out the 6000 btu will be cheaper
    to run, by about 25%, than the 5000 btu unit.
                                           
    Dave

    thanks so far and please keep the info coming.
    
    what about service contracts, are they worth it or necessary?
    
    I went to Leiser today to check out AC.  They didn't have any
    Whirlpool.  I looked at a Westinghouse 7500 btu with 6.7 EER.
    Price on sale was $298.  Came with one year Parts & labor.
    Extended 5 year service is $60.
    
    I told the salesman about the Whirlpool feature of the exhaust
    which takes hot air out before cooling.  He said thats what an
    AC does, they all do that.  I didn't really care for the guy!
    
    Anyways, I'll keep looking, going to check Sears Surplus in
    Milford next.
    
    Mark.

    An EER of 6.7?  I'd pay the extra bucks for at least 9.0, unless
    you think electric rates are going to go down.  BTW, I have a Sharp,
    bought last year, with an EER of 9+, and no problems.
    
    I think extended service contracts are a ripoff, but this is just
    a gut feeling.

    as .5 implied, there are a number of brands and a few people that
    make them.  Last year when I was looking, I found a Quasar and
    Panasonic sitting next to each other.  The covers were different,
    but the actual units were EXACTLY the same.  The Panasonic had a
    $50 higher price tag.

    	What does the EER rating translate into as far as KWH or some
    other number I can relate to my electric bill? If I save $100 and
    get a unit with a EER of 7 how long will it take me to recoupe that
    $100 with a unit that has a EER of 9?
    
    	Is it like that old saying "pay me now or pay me later"?
    
    				...Dave
    

    I believe EER is determined by dividing BTU's of the unit by the
    watts it draws (i.e a 5000 btu machine which draws 5 amps @120v
    (600 watts) would have an EER of 8.3). When comparing machines of
    the same BTU size, EER makes efficiency comparison easy, but if
    you compare different size machines, the watts drawn can be used
    to calculate savings. In ref to .10, if you have 2 5000 BTU machines,
    one with an EER of 7.0 (draws 714 watts) and the other with 9.0 (draws
    556 watts), the less efficient machine would use 158 watts (or .158
    kw) more to achieve equal output. Therefore, over 1 hour, it draws
    .158 kw-hrs more. If your electric cost is say $.08 per kw-hr, then
    the less efficient machine would cost $.013 more to run per hour. If
    you use the unit for 250 hr/yr, the additional cost would be $3.16/yr.
    This makes one major assumption, that of both having the same duty
    cycle, the time that both draw max. current (fan and compressor
    running), which may not be the true case. Probably the more efficient
    unit will run its compressor less often, which would raise this
    cost different even more (the above assumes max current draw the
    whole time). To come to a final figure requires more variables than
    are available in .10, but this gives you an idea on how the
    calculations would work.
    
    Eric

>>>  Any good places to buy an AC in the rt. 9 / rt. 495 area?

    Try Percy's in Worcestor, I've found them to have the best price
    around for several appliance purchases (but not A/C).  Cuomos is
    also pretty good.  Stay far away from Leiser, most of the salesmen
    are pushy idiots.
    
    Bill

    All the A/C units at Cuomos had a chart on them saying how much
    they would cost to run with hours per year along the top and $ per
    kilowatt along the side.  It made it very easy to compare units
    with different BTU capacities.  It also made it clear that the 6000
    btu unit with an EER of 9.0 was cheaper to run than the 5200 with
    6.5.
    
    Dave

    If you go to Percy's, make sure you get the mass buying power price,
    which you are due if you show your DEC badge.  
    
    gjd

In fact - make sure you talk to Mr. Burt Walter - he's the 'mass 
buying power' person

	I'd check  to see that it's installed with a slight angle down at
	the rear to  ensure  condensate is getting out.  What probably is
	happening is what water is trapped in the drip pan is acting as a
	petri dish and you're growing some strain of penicillin.
	
	Reset the conditioner after a thorough cleaning of the evaporator
	coils (the cool ones) and your odor problems will be over.  Use a
	stiff bristled brush and water with a  little bleach to kill what
	may be growing in the fins.

    
    
    1. I was bitten once - never again will I go to Leiser.
    
    2. Figure out the BTUs required for the A/C.
    
    3. Use Consumer Report, Notes, etc. to narrow down A/C maker desired.
    
    4. Shop for best prices (Mass Buy, etc.).
    
    5. Forget the maker and get the highest EER (also called ERR) in
       correct size for your room. (Only half joking.)

<    3. Use Consumer Report, Notes, etc. to narrow down A/C maker desired.
    
 	Do you know how manufactures know when to change model numbers?
	When the consumer report comes out.  How often do you actually 
	find the model listed in consumer reports.
  
<    5. Forget the maker and get the highest EER (also called ERR) in
       correct size for your room. (Only half joking.)

	AMPS is more important then EER.  EER is given at the most efficient 
	setting and AMPS are listed for maximum draw, usually not the most 
	efficient setting.  If you are trying to put an air conditioner on an
	existing 15 Amp circuit you will be limited to about 8 Amps(assumes 
	two light and a small tv on the same circuit) or less for the AC.

	Brian

    I want to install a room air conditioner in an exterior wall.
    The unit I bought has a sheet metal shell (sleeve) from which you
    can remove the mechanical chassis and window mount adapters and then
    mount the "sleeve" into the wall opening and then refit the chassis
    back into the sleeve.
    
    Manufacturers only installation advice is a 1/4" slope to facilitate
    evaporator drainage.
    
    My questions are:
    
    - do I need to use any sort of flashing on the exterior where
      I will be trimming out the wall opening with redwood or cedar
      1x3?
    
    - Any suggestion for ensuring a good weather seal between the sleeve
      and the wall openeing?
    
    - Any suggestions for vibration dampening to ensure "noise free"
      operation.......I'm concerned that the fan/compressor operation
      will generate a vibration between the the sleeve and wall.
    
    Thanks for any advice offered-
    
    Jonathan
    

When I did my through-the-wall (just before the hot spell last year 8-)! )
I cut just enough of the cedar siding to allow the sleeve to poke through,
and then calked it up real good.  No problems so far (knock, knock, knock)

One tip that I was given, that I'll pass along, was for building in the
header in the wall.  (Didn't want to cut too big a hole)  I cut a hole
on the inside that was JUST big enough to fit the new header in, and lag
bolted the support studs to the existing ones.   Sure beat trying to swing
a hammer in there!  Crude drawing follows:

            | |___________________| |
            | |                   | |
            | |___________________| |
            | | |               | | |
            | | |<--Lag Bolts-->| | |
            | | |               | | |
            | | |               | | |
            | | |<--Lag Bolts-->| | |
            | | |               | | |
            | | |               | | |
            | | |<--Lag Bolts-->| | |


Bob

    When my house was built, I had 2 sleeves installed in the walls. The
    opening was boxed out around the studs inside the wall for support and
    the outside had trim installed with flashing on the top. The inside
    wall had mouldings around the machine which I had stained to match the
    house. As .1 said, just make sure the A/C tilts toward the outside and
    use lots of caulk around it. Also, make sure that when you install the
    sleeve in the wall that the house structure does NOT BLOCK any of the
    vents or the unit could overheat and shorten motor/compressor life.
    
    Eric

.2 brings up a good point...

When mounting an A/C through the wall, make sure that the area in which it is
mounted is well ventilated.   Do not mount it under a porch roof, or covered
opening, etc.   An open wall is best.

When I put mine in, the ideal location for the air flow inside did not 
correspond to the ideal location for airflow outside!  (Covered porch)
I had to settle for second best inside location, rather than burn out 
the compressor.

Things to consider...

Bob

    And may I suggest you consider where the water (condensate)
    is going to run TO.... before you're stuck with the hole in
    the wall?  Yes, you can run tubing, etc. to drain the dripping
    water somewhere, but that's a pain.  
    
    I spent one summer (1969?) working for Sears & Roebuck...
    I was the "second body" needed to help put air conditioners
    in (unit weight was considered too much for one person to
    safely lift, insert, etc...), especially in walls.  I watched
    and learned.... from a guy who had been doing it for several
    years.  Some of the tricks I remember....
    
    He frequently (on more expensive wallcoverings) would "save"
    the wallcovering from the piece he cut out to make the wall
    opening.  It could usually be peeled off, trimmed, and put
    on the front panel of the air conditioner.  It made for a
    "matching"  panel, instead of an obnoxious "thing" in the
    middle of the wall.  
    
    When making the opening, use an existing 2X4 as one side of
    the hole.  (One of the sides of the boxed-in hole will be
    a complete, uncut, upright 2X4.... and you'll nail/fasten
    the air conditioner's "sleeve" to it.)  You'll end up
    cutting through ONE 2X4, and boxing things in.  You do NOT
    want to end up cutting through TWO 2X4s, boxing in, etc..
    This seriously weakens the wall.... and with a vibrating
    air conditioner going into the hole, this can cause
    cracks, etc..  
    
    Consult with your friendly electrician, or yourself if
    you're doing the job, BEFORE you mount the air conditioner.
    Through-the-wall units are usually pretty hefty power users,
    and may require separate lines to feed them.  It's a pain to
    find out AFTER you've installed it that the 120-volt outlet
    you picked can't handle the load...  or that you'd have
    enjoyed fishing wires through the wall MUCH more if the 
    hole was open, not blocked by this metal thing....
    (The classic case was the customer who bought a large
    window-mounted unit to go in his 3-decker apartment.
    He found out when we got there that he needed a 30-amp
    line to run the air conditioner.... and the building 
    had ONE 30-amp panel feeding two apartments.  He decided
    NOT to rewire the house for the landlord's benefit...)
    
    If I remember any other little goodies, I'll enter them
    some other time.  
    
                               - Ed -

    The title of this note makes this seem like an ideal place to ask
    this.

    We recently installed an 18000 btu through the wall, and an 8000
    through the wall unit in opposite ends of the house.  Now I walked
    in last night, and was absolutely smacked in the nose with an odor
    of something like heating oil.  We don't heat with oil (electric)
    and the only new gadget we have are the A/C units.  I did just paint
    the basement stairs with an enamel sort of paint, but this was a
    different sort of odor completely.  Plus the paint smell seemed
    to disapate shortly after the work was done.

    The question is, do any of you think an A/C unit could be producing
    this smell, and if so what might be done about it?  If not, any
    other ideas?

    Thanks - Lee

    our ac comes with instruction to oil the fan every year may be you
    have this type too.

    I will be replacing windows in my house, and when i do it, I want to
    build openings in the wall below the windows for air conditioners.  Any
    advice would be helpful.  Also, a few specific questions:
    
    	(1)  Is there a STANDARD size for the sleeve that goes in the 
    	     opening?
    
    	(2)  Are the sleeves purchased separately, or do they come with the 
    	     air conditioner when you buy it?  How much do they cost?
    
    	(3)  re: -.1   The comment about power constraints is a useful one.
    	     Approximately how much power will a 6000 BTU air conditioner
             typically take? (Watts?)
             
    Thanks
    
    David
    

    Sleeve sizes will vary depending on the size of the machine involved
    and the brand a/c. If you look at machines specifically made for
    thru-the-wall installation, there will usually be only 2 or three size
    sleeves for a particular brand, that a variety of machines fit into.
    All a/c that are designed to go through the wall have slide out
    chassis' for service, though wall thickness can be important, so that
    no cooling vents are blocked. Just remember that the sleeve should tilt
    slightly downward to the OUTSIDE so that the water from the a/c runs
    AWAY from the house and not into it.
    
    As to energy usage, that will be a factor of the size of the unit (in
    BTU's) and the Energy Efficiency Rating (EER). Also, larger through the
    wall units may run on 220 rather than 110.
    Eric
    

  I checked 1111 under APPLIANCES and AIR_CONDITIONING, and couldn't find this
 discussed.

  
   I just bought two old air conditioners, that both seem to run ok.

   I'd like to know what periodic servicing these require.  These are window
   air conditioners.  It looks like they may not have had any maintenance done
   to them in some time, if ever.  The age range is 10-15 yrs old, one is a
   Whirlpool the other is a Fedders.

   I've been told that a good cleaning is good for them, to clean the fins and
   entire blower area, so that air can pass through more freely.  Also, a
   change of the filter should be done also.  

   Any other "tune-up" tips for A/C's, to get them tp perform better, and last
   longer?

    Thanks

    Yes, Put  some  oil  on/in  the  bearings  of  the motor that turns the
    fan(s).  If  you  take the cover off you may even see stickers that say
    "oil here".  You should  probably  use  non-detergent  20W oil, (so you
    don't get flamed at..) but I use whatever is handy.. 
    
    gjd
    

In reviewing the previous note and .11, it's not clear to me that
getting the "highest EER (also called ERR)" is the best economical
solution.

Let me illustrate:

1. assume that the AC lasts 15 years.
2. assume that the savings is about $4.00 per year (slightly higher
   than the example in .11).
3. assume that the alternative opportunity cost is 7%.

Plugging that into my financial gives a present value of $36.
To me that means if the higher EER machine costs more than $36, it's
not worth it.

Key variables are the electric rate and the number of hours in use.
I suspect the economics would change if you lived in the south vs
New England.

Gim

    re: .18
    There are also the intangibles; if we buy high EER appliances, it
    may mean that the electric utility company won't to need to build
    a new generating plant in 10 years.  It may mean that the greenhouse
    effect doesn't happen.  We've been taking a very short-sighted view
    of the world and all the implications of "most economical" solutions
    for a long time; I think it may be in our best long-term interest
    to buy high-EER appliances even if the numbers don't happen to show
    that it's "best"; there is a lot more to it than numbers.

    
    	Can an AC be mounted in a wall with the other side being a garage?
    
    
    
    			-Dave-

Re: .7

I have one mounted like that.  It does mean that the AC will work a lot
harder, especially if the garage is not well ventilated.  But it does
work.

			Steve

    Just make sure that you have something to collect the condensation that
    comes out of the A/C, unless you like puddles on the garage floor.
    
    Eric

    A 220V unit in my parents' house dumps out into the garage.  It's been
    that way for almost 15 years without a problem.  There was a floor
    drain in the garage and it was quite tall.  We did leave the windows
    open in the garage to help promote air flow.

      You  probably  realize  that  you'll be heating the garage.  Thats
      where the air conditioner will put the heat that it takes  out  of
      the house to cool it.  
      
      If this doesn't concern you then it should be fine.

    Other than the condensation problem, the only other possible problem
    would have to do with the temp of the garage. As it gets warmer, the
    difference between the A/C coils temp and the ambient air temp would be
    less, so the heat transfer would be less, lower the efficiency.
    
    Eric

In the very near future (tomorrow), I will be helping my neighbor cut a hole in
the side of his house to wall mount his ac unit.  The unit he is planning to 
install does not have a metal sleeve (ac unit has slots on top and side). 
I was somewhat concerned, which led me to this note, and am more concerned after
reading the discussion.

Is there any way to successfully install this type of ac in a wall?  He was 
planning to flash and caulk the unit after installation.  This will make it
difficult to remove if repairs are needed.  He may be able to live with that.
I'm more concerned about this type of installation being weather tight. What
do you think?

    
    re: last few dumping heat into the garage ...
    
    Reminds me of the time when I was working for a small company and we
    were having a heck of time with an 11/34 system crashing or some other
    major misbehavior towards mid-afternoon in the summer.  This was in a 
    fairly small enclosed room - so no wonder we were having problems. 
    Management finally realized the price of an AC would save money.  Our
    expert resident facilities type came proudly striding by saying "I
    don't want to hear anymore complaints from you guys about the heat in
    there anymore.  I just installed a (I don't remember but it was big) AC
    unit in there.  It should be real cold pretty quick."
    
    A little while later we had major hit.  "Now what??"  We went down to
    check the temperature.  It was VERY warm.  There was the AC unit
    humming away in the MIDDLE of the room.
    
    The facilities type happened to come into view.  We told him "I think
    there's a little point about air conditioning you're missing here."
    

    RE: .13, I doubt I would EVER do a through the wall installation with
    any type of AC other than one with a removable chassis. Also the vents
    MUST be completely outside for the machine to properly cool itself.
    And as a final thought, without a sleeve, if the machine ever dies,
    then it would have to be replaced with one EXACTLY the same size. IMHO,
    stick with a sleeved machine.
    
    Eric

    
        Hi.

        Could an air-conditioning unit be mounted on a moveable stand with
        a storage area for the condensation and moved from one room to 
        another using a short piece of ductwork to connect/ventilate to
        the outside ? A friend is looking at purchasing a freestanding
        AC unit from DAMART for ~$400 but considering what Consumer Reports
        said about this type of unit, it doesn't look like an effective
        solution. Has anyone seen this unit ? Any comments ? For the same 
    	money there seem to be lots of more efficient and powerful units
        out there.

    	I've entered a layout below. The goal is to cool the B area at
        night and the window half of the C area during the day.
    
        Thanks.
       
                              MAIN ENTRANCE
   +------------+------------+---|  |-----------------------------+ 
   |  A         |  B         |        C                           | 
   |            |            |                                    - CEILING TO
   |            |            |                                    - FLOOR 
   -            |            |                                    - WINDOWS
WINDOW          -            -                                    - 
   -          DOOR          DOOR                                  -
   |            -            -                                    -
   |            |            |                                    -
   |            |            |                                    |
   +------------+------------+------------------------------------+

        Ceiling height is a uniform 14 feet.
        All walls are ceramic tiles. The space used to be an italian
        restaurant. The landlord will not allow any new venting into the
        walls or ceiling. 
    
        A - kitchen/dining area/bath
        B - bedroom
        C - living room/studio area/office

                  

    Last night our A/C, a 20,000 BTU Sears model, froze up.  The 'radiator'
    (for lack of knowlegde of proper name), became filled with frost and
    Ice, a solid mass of white snow/ice.  
    
    What would cause such a thing to happen? 
    
    We turned it off, took off the cover and let it melt, it's dry now, but
    we haven't turned it back on yet.
    
    						.dave.

    Could the fan have stopped working?
    
    Marc H.

    no, the fan was still turning, but by then wasn't sucking much through
    the grill since it was frozen solid.
    
    						.dave.

    Hummmmm.......Radiator clogged with dirt???
    
    Marc H.

    Hmmmmm....
    
    My AC unit has two "radiators". One on the room side, and one on the
    outside. 
    
    Does yours also have two? If so, which one is frosting up? 
    
    My first guess would be a coolant leak, but don't take that to the
    bank...
    
    Edd

    re .-1 inside one frosted up.  I thought it might be a coolant leak as
    well.  I guess we'll see when we try it again.  If it get's cold, then
    it wasn't a leak...
    
    re .-2 no, it isn't clogged, well, maybe the filter was a little dirty,
    but I wouldn't think that would cause the entire 'radiator' to freeze.
    
    						.dave.
    
    ps - what's the right term for the 'radiator'?

The condensor coil (which is the "radiator") will freeze if the ambient
temperature is low and the humidity high.  Some units have a thermostat which
will detect freeze-up and shut off the compressor, but others don't.

I happen to know, Dave, that you live in Nashua and it got very chilly here
last night, so that may be a large part of it.

A 20,000 BTU model is rather large - I take it that this is a through-the-wall
type?  (Central models aren't rated this way, typically, and do have frost
protection.)  It may just have been a bit too much cooling power for the
cool night air.

			Steve

FWIW: "condensor" is the name of the radiator thingy that gets hot (outside
for a house A/C) and "evaporator" is the name of the radiator that gets cold
(inside).  I think there's a thermostat on the evaporator that senses if it
gets colder than freezing, it's supposed to shut it off to prevent moisture
from freezing.  I'd guess this went west.

-Mike

    indeed the thermostat was a little loose at the time.  I've since
    reseated it and it's been ok.
    
    						.dave.

    
    
            Can anyone provide information if these air conditioners are 
    	    good (especially the Amana) and if they would be suitable
    	    for the room size. (Also, if you have an opinion on which
    	    is best and why, that would be great.)
    
                                                  
            This is for a 19" x 24" room, with skylights, which makes the
            room hot.
    
            According to electrician, should get 8500 - 1100 BTU
    
            Panasonic 9000 BTU '92 model
            20 amps, 120 volts for $500
    
            Quasar 10,000 BTU
            9.7 amps, ~110 volts for  $479
    
            Amana  10,000 BTU
            9.2 amps, ~110 volts for  $459
    
    			thanks,
    
    				Bonnie

    re: a/c brands
    
    The real consideration here is the power requirements of the unit.
    The first you listed (panasonic) draws 20 amps for 9K BTU's - 
    that's a very inefficient unit, and will likely require its own
    circuit with at least a 25amp breaker.  The other two are roughly
    equivalent in terms of power draw (the Amana is more efficient
    than the Quasar), and might let you squeak through with tapping
    from an existing circuit (although it will be close).  Most
    brands will be fairly equivalent in quality - what you really need
    to check is the power requirements and BTU output.  We have an
    Emerson Quiet Cool (thru Montgomery wards) that puts out 8K BTU's
    but required only 7.5amps thru the circuit.  We were able to tap
    into an existing 15amp circuit without problems in our bedroom.
    This room is 15 x 24 and the 8K BTU's work very well there.  We
    also have a 9700 BTU Sears casement a/c that draws 9.2amps that
    is like a blast freezer - but we tapped into an isolated 20amp
    circuit because the power requirements on the circuit in the area
    was already pretty full.
    
    Good luck,
    andy
    

I doubt the Panasonic draws 20A; it probably recommends being placed on a
20A circuit.  Panasonic and Quasar are made by the same company.  I'm not sure
who makes Amana (Amana used to be a division of Raytheon, but it may be only
microwave ovens associated with Raytheon nowadays).  

You really should look at the EER rating - anything 9.0 or above is very
good.  Also check out Consumer Reports which does regular evaluations of
air conditioners.

				Steve

    reply .21 

    I'm going to assume your skylights are fixed closed, so how about
    putting in some interior storm type windows. They're custom make to fit
    and some just snap into place with magnets. Depending what your rafter
    size is, between 8 and 12", you'll create a large dead air space. This
    will reduce heat gain in the summer as well a greatly reduce the losses 
    in the heating season. The aesthetic and lighting changes should be
    minimal. 
    
    If they open, venting is simple, leave them open a crack for
    the season and open a window on the windy side of the room. But the
    storms still work excellent in the winter.
    
    
    /Jim

    
    A lot of the window units with high EER ratings are rotary
    type compressors.
    
    Without going into a lot of technical detail, they are troublesome
    if you try to operate them when the air temp outside is less than
    what they are designed for.  Believe me, I've replaced a lot of them.
    
    Ask if it's "rotary" or "piston" type.  Take the best piston type
    you can find, also stay away from those with aluminum tubing in
    the coils. Stay with copper. 50 cents a day more in power will
    more'n pay for aggravation when your "rotary" is in the repair
    shop and it's hot out!  :^)
    
    Fred

    
    	Re: 2393.21 ~ Thanks for all the helpful information. The skylights
    	do open and so the venting is a good idea.  I think we are leaning
    	towards the Amana AC as well.

After the weather in NH this weekend, this seems unnecessary, but I need help
on A/C sizing and configuration ...

Background:

I have a two-story "contemporary colonial" in so. NH (Durham) that currently
has two through-the-wall air conditioners. Both are on the first floor:

18,000 BTU unit (6.0 EER) in LR/FR (appx. 560 sf floor area, with cathedral
ceiling and lots of south and west-facing windows w/o blinds or low-e glass).

7,800 BTU unit (9.0 EER) in dining room (appx. 200 sf floor area, with north
windows).

The upstairs (3 bedrooms and study) currently has no cooling other than
windows. The study is actually a loft over the LR/FR. Master bedroom is at
other end of hall from study.

My goal: to cool the upstairs, esp. the master bedroom, and yet keep the
downstairs cool as well, but without using  the 18,000 BTU electricity guzzler
in the LR/FR. Willing to buy another A/C unit if necessary, but would like to
get most overall house cooling for least $$$.

Questions:

- If I buy a new, large, efficient  A/C unit and install it in the study on the
2nd floor, will it be able to cool the LR/FR as well? (Does cold air really
fall?)

- Will that same A/C unit in the study have any appreciable effect on the temp.
in the master bedroom 20 feet down the hall and past an open stairway?

- If I install a new A/C unit in the master bedroom, will it have any
appreciable effect on the temp in the study etc. etc. etc.?

- Should I move the A/C from the dining room to the master BR?

Thanks for your expert advice ...

Brian

I need help installing a room A/C unit in a wall (not through a window). 

According to the Lechmere's salesman, the unit I bought (Panasonic CW-604JU) 
is suited for installation in a wall. But the instructions for installation
don't specifically address how you do this. E.g., the hardware for installation
is tailored for window installation.

Can someone clue me in on what's involved in an in-wall installation? Am I
basically just going to mount the cabinet in the wall and slide the chassis
into it?

Thanks,

Brian

Re: .28

Often a separate wall installation kit is required - check the instructions
to be sure.  If you haven't already done so, you'll need to "frame in"
the box in the wall.

				Steve

>to be sure.  If you haven't already done so, you'll need to "frame in"
>the box in the wall.
  
Can you give me a suggestion of how to "frame in" this particular unit?
Ihaven't cut into the wall yet, but I'm presuming it has studs 16" o.c. My A/C
is appz 20.75" wide and 14.5" high. I figure I want to secure one side to an
existing stud and will have to cut the next stud over, but after that I go
blank ...

Also, what is the best way to secure the A/C cabinet to the "box"? Drywall
screws?

Thanks,

Brian

  Brian,

  When you cut into the wall you'll probably need to cut one of the studs 
  make a sill and a header.  You'll also have to put in cripples below the
  sill.  
                       |        |        |
                       |=================|
                       |=================|
                       |      ^          |
                       |      |          |
                       |   Header        |
                       |                 |                  
                       -------------------
                       ||       |       ||<- Stud and cripple
                       ||       |       ||
                       ||       |       ||

  Personally I would put the unit in the window, I have this thing about
  cutting hole in perfectly good walls. TEHO.

Depending on the size, you may also want to build a "shelf", braced to the 
outside wall, for the A/C to rest on.

Clay

.31 has the right idea.  

Don't use drywall screws; they can wear a hole in the sheet metal.  Use
pan-head screws.

I'll repeat my earlier advice - check the manual very carefully to see if
it lists a separate wall installation kit.  If nothing else, call Panasonic
for details.  And don't trust the Lechmere sales-droid - they are typically
founts of misinformation.  We have a larger Panasonic window unit and the
manual mentions a separate wall-mount kit.

				Steve

RE: last few:

Thanks for the ideas. I don't think this unit comes with any special hardware
for wall installation. The installation guide says "The unit may also be
installed through the wall. Because of varied building materials used, we can
not give specific instructions. You should however observe standard carpentry
practices and frame the opening without violating local ordinances."

FYI, I'm doing this in the wall because the windows are unsuitable (big slider
and two small awning windows).

Can someone give me a little more detail on the framing? E.g., what does the
header consist of: 2 2x4's nailed together and then toenailed into the studs?

Can I bascially improvise the "box", with the goal of keeping the wall rigid
while supporting the A/c, or is there some "standard" practice I must follow?

(Maybe I should get a book on carpentry techniques from the public library ...)

Thanks,

Brian

Pretend you're installing a window and use the same techniques. 

			Steve

    
      <<< Note 2393.31 by TFH::FEE "Singing songs of shady sisters..." >>>
    
    Shouldn't that be:
    
                       |        |        |
                       |=================|
                       |=================| <-- header sits on doubled
                       ||   |           ||     stud   
                       ||   |<- 21" --->||
                       ||   | opening   ||
                       ||   |           ||                  
                       ||===============||
                       ||       |       ||<- double stud (nail to inside 
                       ||       |       ||   of existing studs)
                       ||       | <--------- cripple

    span  header
    2.5'  2x4 (2 of)
    3.5'  2x6   "
      
    The header is two pieces of 2xn" stock spaced with 3/8" ply.
    
    (You'll need to preserve the vapour barrier around the opening too.)
    
    Colin

The house I just bought had a window unit in a casement window, with the
casement removed and the unit sitting on a metal 'shelf'.  The weight of 
unit and the poor installation of the shelf was pulling the window frame
apart, as gravity did it's best to draw the air conditioner toward the
ground, so I had to remove it.

I'm not a carpenter, so I'll probably hire one to replace this unit 
correctly, and repair the window frame, which has half inch gap in it,
front to back.

tim

RE. .36:

Thanks for the detail. From the looks of it, I won't be able to get away with a
nice neat hole in the wallboard the size of the A/C. Am I right that building
such a frame will require exposing a big section of the wall's innards?

Brian

It's very likely that yes, indeed, you'll have to remove more wallboard than
the size of the hole.

			Steve

    Just musing, but I wonder if installing it at floor or ceiling level
    might be a way around that?  Up high and you would not need a header,
    down low and no need for cripple studs.
    
    Can you get small 2-part room airconditioners, where the cooling
    element is connected to a remote heat exchanger by insulated pipes?
    That would seem to be an easier solution (maybe I see a market niche!)
    
    Colin
    
    
    

Is the AC narrower than the window?  If so, you could install it under
the window and take advantage of the window's header and cripple studs.
You might be able to get away with removing no more wallboard that will
be covered by the trim boards once you are done.

	Luck,
	Larry

RE. -1:

The A/C is narrower than the window, but the bed is under the window, so no go.

Looks like I'll be doing open wall surgery ...

Brian

	Hi,

	   My wife and I have decided to get an aircondioner put into the
	wall of our bedroom. After looking through the file and what has been
	put in about this, I thought it would be a good idea to get some
	recommendations of carpenters in the Leominster, Ma. area who have 
	done this kind of work. What we are looking to do is have a sleeve
	installed in the wall so that the airconditioner can be slipped in 
	and out easily. 

	  Also, if anyone has had this done in the past, I would like to
	know what the average price range for this kind of work. I did some
	carpentry in the past, but that was a long time ago and I don't
	know what the going rate per hour or project might be. 

	Any help would be great,

	Thanks Andy Kiser.

	P.S. Please send all recommendations to AYRPLN::KISER. I don't want
	     the Mod's having to deal with alot of notes.

    Mount the A/C as high on the wall as possible.  It will be most
    efficient that way.  Remember:  cool air falls.  If you mount
    it close to the floor, you'll have a difficult time exchanging the
    hotter air near the ceiling.
                                                  
    Chet