Conference 7.286::home_work

    I bought one as a Christmas gift for my father-in-law, who had
    recently had operations on both wrists for carpal tunnel syndrome,
    and repetitive wrist motions will be a non-no for a while.  Quite
    frankly, I thought it was a marginally useful toy.  Also quite
    frankly, I had occasion to use it recently when we took apart
    some metal shelving, and the damn thing is really handy for boring,
    repetitive work.  I'm amazed at the torque the little sucker has.
    
    I bought the Skil; I think the other brands are virtually identical.
    I wouldn't try it for cabinet making, but it has its uses.
    
    pbm
    

    
    	I've got one but haven't used it too much because I found that
    it *didn't* have the necessary torque for wood, even soft wood like
    pine.  It would seat most of the screw but not all the way.  I still
    like it though, it's neat.  I found it very useful for stuff like
    electrical outlets and such where there are usually long screws
    that take many turns to either take it out or put it in.  

Take a look in DELNI::WOODWORKING_AND_TOOLS.  I think there's quite a bit of 
discussion there.  There's a 1111 style directory at note 5.

Paul

    I have one and use it for unscrewing and rescrewing screws in place
    (i.e. door knobs, outlets, etc.).  It isn't really udeful for driving
    screws.
    
    I bought the Sears Craftsman model which looks like the Black And
    Decker because craftsman tools have a lifetime warranty and if this
    little guy dies, I will get a new one. 

    Roger

    I received the Sears as a birthday present.  At first I thought it was
    a gimmick, but I found it useful when I assembled the picnic table and
    other things.  I does have a fair amount of torque.  On sale it
    was $15.00. Additional bits were $6.00.
    
    Mike

    I'm amazed at how useful we've found the cordless screwdriver:
    
    	Removing outlet covers in preparation for wallpapering, and
    then reinstalling them.
    
    	Assembling my waterbed.  Sure, the holes were already drilled,
    but it took two or three times to get the panels into the right
    orientation.  Of course, I've now marked the components so that
    next time I can get it right the first time.  (famous last words)
    
    	Assembling my kneeling chair.  Again, the holes were predrilled.
    But this time it took me at least four or five times to get it right.
    (what a jigsaw puzzle)
    
    	Mounting various things on a wall, using those mounting bolts that
    compress on the inside of the wall.  These bolts are long (i.e.
    tedious), and you have to screw them all the way in, then all the
    way out, then mount the item, and screw them all the way in again.
    The only part that needed to be done by hand was the last bit of
    tightening on the first pass.
    
    And so on.  At $14 (about what I paid for the Skil), it's well worth
    it.
    
       Gary

    I also have the Skil - don't know how I lived without it all these
    years!
    
    				Steve

    I have had a Milwalkee cordless screwdriver for over two years now
    (it complements my Milwalkee drill very well).
    It cost $70.00 and I sometimes think it has more power than the
    drill does.
    
    I picked this model because it has a removable $15.00 battery so
    I don't have to toss it when the ni-cad's died.  Its a great tool.
    
    bjm

    re: 10
    
    	Does the SKIL has different models for different prices ? or
    only one model at one price ? I'm planning to get one and would
    like to be prepared before buying it.

	re: Skil/Sears
	
	I have  one  of  each.  The Sears is a quick (1-hour) charge, the
	Skil takes 3-hours.
	
	I find that  I've  more  than  enough power to drive all types of
	screws provided that you  pre-drill  first.  The Skil has a drill
	bit suited to the screw  size,  the  Sears  has  the  appropriate
	driver bit.
	
	One thing to note is that over the past few years since the first
	cordless drill/drivers became available, more places are carrying
	philips head wood screws.  I've been using  them exclusivly on my
	projects  because of the more positive drive and less  chance  to
	slip  off,  damaging  your  workpiece.  Don't cost any more  than
	straight slotted screws, either...
	
	If  I  had  it  to  do  over,  I'd  choose  a  Makita    for  two
	reasons...removable battery pack and  variable  speed, 0-600RPM I
	once saw it at Lechmere's  for  about  $70  with battery pack and
	charger.  At a local hardware store, the unit goes for about $40,
	but  you  need  to  buy  the  battery  ($25)  and  charger  ($30)
	separately.
	
	Bottom line is I don't know how I  managed without them all these
	years!

Arrgh.  This is what happens when I don't keep the Home_work directory listing 
at my desk up to date.  There's a 25 response note at 2223 discussing cordless 
drills.  There are too many responses here now to lock this topic, and I don't 
feel like spending the time moving all the replies, so we'll just have two 
notes.

Paul

The Skill cordless screwdriver and a cordless drill have nothing in 
common. (If you allow that cordless means "no cord" and they are both 
cordless, thus what they have in common is nothing where the cord 
belongs...)

At any rate, although a cordless drill can drive screws and at least one 
cordless screwdriver has a small drill attachment, they are by and large 
different beasts.  I don't think it's too bad having a note for each.

To stay (stray?) near the subject, I have a Skill cordless screwdriver 
and like it a lot.  It's handy and light and does a reasonable job.  
Over time, the little gadget that locks the blade so you can turn it by 
hand has gotten loose so gravity will make it drop into place and jam
the motor, but a little black tape takes care of that.  The recharging
unit has gotten noisy with age too.  I bought this one when they first 
came out, so it's kind of old, and the newer ones may not be subject to 
this kind of wear.

I wouldn't throw out my cordless drill (see other note...) but I do 
think these things are worth their cost.

					>>>==>PStJTT

I own the Makita 6093DW Cordless drill/screwdriver. It came
with a sheet metal box, recharger, and one Philips head.
There are 5 torque settings and two speed ranges (with
trigger control fine speed control). The reason I
bought it is that I met a contractor who was putting up drywalls using
the Makita. He told me that he had used many types
and he liked the Makita the best. Since then I
asked around and got the same recommendation. The Makita is
also a professional tool that can really take a lot
of abuses. After shopping around, I finally bought one
at Hayward Tools (Hayward, CA) for $117. That costs about
10 times as the Skil but I think it is still worth it because
it can deliver a lot of power and the feel and the control
are better than the other ones I tried. Its performance in
drilling is comparable to that of my corded Porter Cable drill.
In fact I have been using it
(with drywall screws) to replace the hammer/nail approach
for many framing applications.
As a result, I had to purchase an additional battery for $22.

I highly recommend it and think that it belongs to the "classic"
tools like the Skil model 77 wormdrive saw
and the Portable Cable 330 palm sander.

    Re: .11 (I think?)
    
    Skil has recently introduced a new model, "Skil Twist Plus", I believe,
    that has more torque and a longer-lasting battery than the old
    model, "Skil Twist".  The Plus seems to be selling for the same
    price the original model used to sell for ($17-$19), while the
    older model can be found for $14-$15.
    
    These inexpensive cordless screwdrivers are fantastic for occasional
    chores.  But if you are going to be driving a LOT of screws (like
    putting up drywall), you're better off with the bigger and more
    expensive cordless drill/drivers.
    
    I have found cases where the Twist stalls when driving a screw,
    but only when I haven't drilled a pilot hole.  It did just great
    in assembling my waterbed.
    
    					Steve

An unequivocal YES for cordless screwdrivers  (a misnomer to be sure,
since every screwdriver I've ever owned was "cordless").
I got one for Christmas, and I thought it would be a gimmick, but I find
it useful in so many ways.
Yes, power is a problem with most smaller units.  I do find I need a
manual driver to seat heavier screws.
One unexpected benefit was not having to move one's hand to reseat the bit
in the screw head after each turn of the wrist!  In harder to reach places,
this is a real plus.

- tom] (I do still feel decadent using it, though)

    
    I have two cordless screw drivers, a Skil and a Craftsman(Sears).
    The Craftsman, which is a "pistol grip" type, has a lot of torque
    and power to drive even long sheetrock screws into studs. I used
    it to screw the balusters onto my deck railing and pressure treated
    wood is very tough.
    	I am disappointed in the Skil because it will only work on
    light duty jobs. It wouldn't even do a sheetrock screw. This surprises
    me because I like Skil products. I'm ready to trash it.
    
    Bob  

    
    Re: .17
    
    	I agree with the nicety of not having to move your wrist for
    each turn to reset the screwdriver in the head.  Instead of using
    a cordless (powered, actually) screwdriver to get this, I have a
    ratchet screwdriver set that I really love.  It still requires the
    turning effort of the hand to drive the screw, but I don't have
    to pull the screwdriver away to reset it.  (I find the biggest problem
    with resetting the screwdriver not being the wrist motion, but in
    lining up the screwdriver with the head over and over and over...)
    
    	No recharging, no expensive screwdriver, no loss of battery
    power when you need it most and I can drive all screws, not just
    lighter ones.  Cordless screwdriver?  No thanks, I can spend the
    money on other tools that I need more!
    
    							-craig

    I received a Skil cordless drill/screwdriver for Christmas and it
    ranks right behind my Workmate in terms of usefulness.
    
    I had a Milwaukee screwdriver-only but I guess I abused it - it
    fell to pieces and sometimes wasn't up to doing what I needed to
    be done.  The Skil, however, has more than paid for itself because
    I can drill on boats, RVs, outside, etc. without having to work
    with extension cords (also handy inside).  I have a nut-driver set
    with mine that extends its applicability.
    
    Pete

    I have a skil that I have had for about 5 years now and consider
    it to be one of the few tools that I own that I could never go
    back to doing without. It also has enough torque to drive 2 1/2"
    drywall screws into fir non-stop for hours. BTW- this is the style
    that is shaped just like a drill the ones that look like a fat screw
    driver are right up there with the veg-a-matic in value and the
    torque is mostly by armstrong.
    
    -j   
    
    

    I haven't tried the cylinder-shaped ones, but the Sears pistol grip 
    one I have (I think it's the Skil with a Sears label) is great. 
    They're close to indispensible when you're dealing with any assembly 
    project involving more than about 4 screws, and the torque on the 
    one I have is very impressive.
    
    The RPMs are very low: like 140 with no load, as compared to a drill
    with a screwdriver bit. This provides more torque and control. I've
    driven some screws with my Makita cordless drill, and they zip in at
    the speed of light (well, sound), but it's awful easy to jump out
    when they "hit bottom" and scar the workpiece. The power screwdriver
    works at a much more leisurely pace, but still a lot faster (and
    easier) than I can do myself, even with a ratcheting screwdriver. 

    I want to clarify some info on my Skil after reading the last reply.
    
    My Skil is a cordless screwdriver/drill.  It's variable speed from
    REAL slow up to the point where you squeeze the trigger tightly
    and it seems to jump up to full-speed.  Between the clutch and the
    trigger, I have never marred my work or stripped a screw and have
    always had total control over speed for both screwing and drilling.
    
    Again, I'd recommend it.

    I recieved the black&decker handheld straight handle cordless
    screwdriver last year for Christmas.  Completely worthless in my
    opionion.  It does not have enough torque to drive screws of any
    size into wood unless pre-drilled and then you may have to finish
    it by hand.  It is useful if you are assembling predrilled sheetmetal
    shelving or such.
    
    I got a Ohio Forge Drill style cordless screwdriver this year. 
    It has an adjustable clutch with 4 settings.  It will screw the
    screw flush with the surface and then disengage eliminating jump
    out and marring.  It has the non-removable 3 hour slow charge battery.
    As memtioned in the other note, the holster makes it much more useful.
    You don't have to find a place to set it down in between and it is
    always at your side.
    

    

I picked up a Skil Twist Plus last weekend. The charger base had
a broken wire; the price was right ($7).

Soldered the wire back and checked out the batteries. Recharged
the driver and all works well. I sold the older Skil Twist for $7
so I am even.

Great increase in torque.

cal

I noticed that the Sears catalogue has a caulking attachment to
1/4" hex head drive, cordless screw drivers. It puts a steady
pressure on the caulking tube. The pistol grip type screw-driver
was shown but it said that the Skil-Twist type screw-driver can
be used.

calvin

You can't really compare a $14 cordless screwdriver to a $117 
cordless drill. Each has its own use.

When I remodel my kitchen, I found that I really need both. For
example, to use a cordless drive to attach 20 outlet plates could be
overkill. For that I used the $14 cordless screwdriver.  To put
up sheetrock, I used the drill.

You get what you pay for.


Gim

re                       <<< Note 2394.27 by SLOAN::HOM >>>

>To put
>up sheetrock, I used the drill.

     Do you really mean a drywall screwdriver?

Steve

>         <<< Note 2394.28 by MFGMEM::S_JOHNSON "Underdog: The Movie" >>>
>
>re                       <<< Note 2394.27 by SLOAN::HOM >>>
>
>>To put
>>up sheetrock, I used the drill.
>
>     Do you really mean a drywall screwdriver?
>
>Steve

Well, I  use  a  Phillips Head bit in my electric drill.  It NEVER stalls.  The
bit is from  a  "Yankee  Screwdriver".  I never could justify spending MORE $$$
for another power tool that does the same thing as my drill.

Dave

For casual use, I'd consider investing another $10 or so for a driver attachment
for the drill.  The attachment has a clutch that prevents driving the screw
too far.  You install it on the drill like a regular bit, and then insert
hex-shanked driver bits into the attachment.  I've seen then from a number
of companies, including one called the "Dimpler," which allegedly makes the
correct indentation in the drywall for countersinking the screw head.

I've used such an attachment in my drill for cases where I need more power
than my cheap electric screwdriver, but I want to be careful that I don't 
tighten the screw too much, or more likely, strip the screw hole in the wood.

   Gary

    My rechargable screw gun ran down in the middle of a big job and so I
    used my drill with a screwdriver bit in it.  Until I got the hang of
    it, I was driving the screws in below the level of the wood and then
    shearing the heads off the shank.  I was using exterior grade drywall
    screws.
    
    I saw the driver attachment at Home Depot for about $14-$15 and was
    debating on whether spending the money.  Does the driver attachment for
    drills work well or it is just another hoax to get our money?
    

What do you mean by work?  I'm not experienced enough to be able to judge
whether it works well.  All I can tell you is that you do need to put some
pressure on the drill, otherwise the clutching mechanism disengages and the
device spins without turning the bit.  When the screw hits bottom, the clutch
starts to slip, which is what you want, but it's still possible to be putting
too much pressure on the drill.

I've never used it on drywall, so I don't know how well it works.  Last time
I used it was for installing a lock, on the screws that needed to go into
the wood.

   Gary

    I meant to say that to put up sheetrock, I used a cordless variable
    speed drill with a clutch mechanism and a philips bit in the the drill.
    
    The clutch works fine.  Sinks the screws down about 1/16 to 1/8 of an
    inch.
    
    Gim
    

    I haven't found the add on clutch mechanisms to be especially useful. 
    They upset the balance of the drill and require more effort to engage.
    They're really terrible when working overhead on ceilings.
    
    A cordless variable speed drill with a phillips tip in a magnetic holder
    works fine.  After a few excavations I learned to slow down at just the
    right time to get the proper amount of dimpling.  The inherently slow
    speed of a cordless drill makes this easy to do.  A half inch plug in
    drill which works at low rpm also works well without a clutch.  It's
    heavier than most cordless drills.  But, if you already have one and
    you have a lot of drywall to hang, it's not worth going out to get a
    screwgun.  When my wife and I work together, she uses the cordless and
    I use the 1/2".
    
    FWIW, many pro drywallers remove (or lose) the cone from their
    screwguns.  They don't seem to overdrive too many screws.
    
    - gene 

    I've put up sheetrock with a phillips bit in a variable-speed
    electric drill, with no real problem.  As .34 says, it takes a
    little practice to get the hang of it, but it's not hard.
    It's probably not quite as fast as using a special screw gun,
    but I'm not out to win any speed contests.
    If you've got the variable-speed drill, give it a try before you 
    spend your money on a clutch gizzie or a screw gun.

    I've always used my variable speed drill for sheetrocking.  I saw the
    people doing work in MR01 using a gun that seems to always stay
    running.  They just put the screw in the end, put it against the
    sheetrock, and the screw seems to "catch" on a bit inside and drill
    right in.
    
    Chris D.

I will have to disagree with the clutches being of no use.  The come in
very handy, especally when doing ceilings.  You get used to the balance
of the drill as you use it.  I have a Milwalkee 3/8" driver/drill and
have put up several ceilings with it.  I did try my Milwalkee 1/2
variable speed but the second time it put a screw through the sheet
rock, I switched back.

bjm

I used the "Dimpler" attachment earlier this year.  It definitely beats
a straight bit in that it is almost impossible to overdrive the screw.
The disadvantage is that you had better drive it straight and all the way
in the first time, or else the clutch will make it hard to get the screw
to go in the rest of the way.  It is inexpensive and lightweight, and
uses the standard replaceable drywall screw bits.

				Steve

  I've recently completed sheetrocking a kitchen and bath, using about 1500
 sheetrock screws.  Ceilings included.  My Makita power drywall screwgun was
 indispensable. 

  In my case, the amount of sheetrocking I had to do, and the fact that I expect
 the tool to last a lifetime made buying it an easy decision.

   re: speed;  when you're sheetrocking, which is anything but a fun thing to 
  do, you want the job done (properly) as quickly and efficiently as possible.  
  
   Another case of "the right tool for the job".  

    Steve

    I've used a variable speed drill for driving screws many, many times. 
    I found that you can usually avoid driving the screw all the way
    through by a simple trick:
    
    Just recess the driving bit into the drill chuck until there is just
    barely enough bit sticking out to grab the screw head.  As soon as the
    screw goes it all the way, the chuck will bottom out and the screw pops
    out of the driving bit.  You still need to be careful with sheetrock -
    apply too much pressure, and you could drive the entire drill through
    the wall.
    
    /Don

    I couldn't locate a relevant note to put this in, so I'll make one
    (moderators, if there IS a relevant note, feel free to move this to
    it).
    
    I need to find a mail-order source for some really small phillips-head
    screwdrivers, small regular screwdrivers, a spanner wrench, a lens
    clamp, and a couple of sizes of bristo drivers (*).  The tiny
    screwdrivers you can buy as a set of "jeweler's tools" from Radio Shack
    are of sufficiently poor quality that I have gone through several sets
    of them - they break or wear out real fast, so I need to get some
    better tools.  The other things I could have really used last week for
    some repair work, and once again made do with the tools I do have, but
    some repair jobs would sure be a lot easier with the right tools.  Can
    anyone reccomend a mail-order source for these things??  Or a local
    source in east Mass/southern NH?
    
    /Charlotte
    
    *spanner wrench: The British apparently call the thing I would call an
    adjustable wrench a spanner wrench.  I mean an adjustable pair of
    parallel points, used to unscrew things.
    
    *lens clamp: a sort of rubber wrench, for unscrewing delicate things
    that a regular wrench would mar - usually used for camera lenses, I
    guess.  I managed to scratch something I shouldn't have by trying to
    mask the jaws of a normal wrench (I was sort of desparate at the time).
    
    *bristo driver: A bristo was one of those wonderful inventions of
    government-contract electronics suppliers, a sort of tapered version of
    a hexagonal wrench, but with the sides concave.  I think it might turn
    out that a "torx" driver fits these, in which case I don't need to
    mail-order the right tool since I can buy the "torx" locally, I think.
                                                                           

    Grab a copy of the Tools "specialog" from Sears; they have a
    very large assortment of unusual tools.

Every once in a while I get a catalog from a company called Fordham which
has all manner of small tools, mainly for electronics work.

A Bristol key is not the same as Torx.  But you may be able to find these
at a GOOD local hardware store or an electronics supply store.

			Steve

    I also may try Edmunds scientific catalog. Don't know about quality of
    their tools.
    
    They sell a lot of stuff which will be porbably of interest to you.
    I have seen in their catalog more than one spanner wrenches. But these
    beasts are not cheap - in the range of $50 if not more.
    
    Goog luck,
    Gene

    I'll try to remember to bring in the address of Micro-Mark, a company
    out of NJ that specializes in small tools for model makers.  As I
    remember, they have just about everything you are looking for.

    -Bob

    These folks sell an absolutely elegant set of 6 flat-blade jeweler's
    screwdrivers for $23.60:
        Brownell's Inc
        Route 2, Box 1
        Montezuma, Iowa  50171
    Their catalog is $4.00, I believe.  They are primarily a gunsmith
    supply outfit, and have quite a variety of unusual tools.  I don't
    think they have any of the other tools you are looking for though.
    

    Try Brookstone at your local mall.

    
    
    I used to work for the Bristol Company, who hold the patent onthe 
    Bristol" sicket screws- they are not the same as a Torx, bu are very
    similar. They are used in optical/aerospace/electronic applications.
    
     The wrenches used to be available only from Bristol (we gave away the
    crews, "gotcha" on the wrenches). And I beleive Bristol sold off the 
    socket screw Division.
    
     However- if you call Bristol- Babcock in Watertown, Conn (sorry I
    don't have their current no)-  they should be able to help. I would
    check with their service dept-
    
     If you get the usual telephone transfer act- ask for a Mr John
    Birkenberger- he is one of the executives there and he used to work for
    me- tell him that Dick Cadmus suggested you call.  He'll help get you
    steered in the right direction- might even be able to scare up a set
    for you .
    
     The sad part is, when I got out of the process control business, I
    threw a complete set of Bristol spline wrences away.
    
     You may also want to check with your local optician or camera shop for
    a source of the tools you need.
    
     Dick
    
      

    Try "Small Parts, Inc." in Florida. I think they're in Miami. They
    have  a remarkable collection of tools and small quantities of all
    sorts  of metals and plastics, as well as fasteners. Their service
    is quite fast, but they don't take phone orders until after you've
    opened an account with them.  In the mean time, mail works fine.

--David

    Try JENSEN TOOLS INC
        7815 S 46TH ST.
        PHOENIX AZ 85044-5399
    
    The Jensen tools are terible (my experience), but thet do carry Wiha
    quality tools from W-Germany (now Germany.) The screwdriver set that
    comes to mind is a 7 piece set crafted on Molybdan. 7 drivers ,
    4 straight, 3 phillips smalled being #261 or 00x40. Gooood tools.
    
    Now that I look through the catalog, I see neumerous "tiny" tools.
    
    Good luck
    
    Bob

  Indeed Brookstone has an interesting selection of odd tools. For
  woodworking tools, Woodcraft Supply in (I think) Woburn, MA has a good
  selection, and has a mail-order catalog.

    re: .4
    
    Well I finally remembered to bring the address in.
    
    Micro-Mark
    The Small Tool Specialists
    340 Snyder Avenue
    Berkley Heights, NJ  07922
    
    1-800-225-1066 (24 Hours)
    1-201-464-6764
    
    -Bob

    I sometimes need to put in screws in areas where I can't reach very
    well.  I'd like to try magnetizing a screwdriver to hold the screw.  I
    remember wrapping wire around the shank of screwdrivers as a kid.  Then
    we'd hook a 1.5 volt battery up and the screwdriver would become a
    magnet but not for very long.  What's the best way to turn a
    screwdriver into a magnet for longer periods of time?
    
    							John

    
    They sell magnetizers just for that purpose (and magnetic screwdrivers 
    for that matter) at most hardware stores. 
    
    								- Mac

<...
<    magnet but not for very long.  What's the best way to turn a
<    screwdriver into a magnet for longer periods of time?
    
   Take a magnet and stroke the shank of the screwdriver in the same direction
a couple dozen times (e.g move the magnet only from the handle toward the tip.)


Al

    
    	They also sell screwdrivers which have a small clip on the blade
    	to hold screws.  I've found that they work better than the
    	magnetized ones.... if you bump a magnetized one, the screw falls
    	off pretty easily.
    
    	Ed
    

    Especially the brass screws.

    My favorite type of holding screwdriver is the kind where the center
    part of the blade tip is spring-loaded. you put the screw on, press a
    button, and the center part rotates to hold the screw tightly. The
    outer part of the blade is part of the machined shaft, so you can apply
    as much torque as you dare without damaging the tip.
    
    ...tom

I've also used grease, vaseline, chewing gum,  hell I've even used peanutbutter.

Whatever works.....

Al

(these same methods help retrieve screws, nuts, and washers that have fallen in
inaccesable places...)

    re -.5  Only works well on straight slotted screws.  The type with the
    two little fingers work alright for Phillips head.
    
    Carl
    

This is being sold on one of those Cable TV infomercials. It appears to be
a sort of adjustable multi-angular ratchet screwdriver with replaceable
bits.

I was wondering, if anyone had one, whether they thought it was worth the
$60 ($80 for the "corrosion resistant marine model"!) that they are charging
for it. It seems to me as though it might be worth about half that, and,
no doubt, it'll be available in stores sometime early next year for about
that much.

Also, does the tool take standard hex bits from other screwdriver tools?

Thanks,
-Jack
		[Cross-posted in WOODWORKING_AND_TOOLS and GADGETS]

    	I haven't seen the tool on TV that you're talking about but it
    sounds like one I've seen in local hardware stores and in different
    ads.  It has the same features and a assortment of different bits and 
    sockets for $20.  Send me the $60 and I'll pick one up for you.

    Joe

    	I've seen one of the ones talked about in the previous note at the
    1-2-3 store by me (everything in the store is $1, $2, or $3.) It
    doesn't have an adjustable bit/s, just a bunch of them that slide
    in/out of a magnetic holder. 
    
    	There's a choise of two different ratcheting handle types, a T-bar and 
    a standard handle with a universal joint. Each are $3, and you can by a
    hell of a lot of bits with the remaining $57.
    
    	Ray

    I have the Brookstone variant of the Skewdriver (same manufacturer) -
    it works ok, but I think it was under $20.  I've seen the more
    expensive set at home shows for $50 - seemed to be built nicely,
    but not really worth the extra money.  They all take standard
    hex-shanked bits.  I found the Skewdriver to be handy in some
    cases, but not as many as I would have expected.
    
    				Steve

    I own the Skewdriver, with the 2 extentions and the 90 degree angle
    extension along with about 20 bits.  The bits can also be used with my
    drill.  Basically - I love it!  Its the best $50.00 I spent.
    
    I bought the whole set at the Home Show at the Centrum in Worcester. 
    It came with a hard sided case - all pieces, including the case have a
    lifetime warranty.  The handle holds about 5 bits and has a screw top
    to hold them in there securely and it is magnetized to hold those pesky
    screws in place.
    
    I may buy another kit to keep with me in the bike for now I just throw 
    it in the saddlebag when I take a long trip.  I've used the bits with 
    my drill but nothing major - no major torque actually.
    
    all my 2 cents,
    Jt