Conference 7.286::home_work

something like that happened to me once.  My parents had gone away for 
the weekend and I was home alone, the first time with the pool going.
It was mid-summer and very hot.

I tested, I regulated, I filtered, and I vacumned.  I saw a cloud of 
'green' forming in the deep end.  I added algecide.  It didn't 
dissipate.  I added more.  This continued.  

By the time they got home, it appeared as if Mr. Bubble came to visit.
There was so much algecide in it that one good jump created a 
layer of bubbles.

Turned out that we needed more sand in the filter.  Added that and it 
worked like a charm.

    It is fairly normal to have cloudyness for a few days after first
    opening the pool.  You can buy a water clarifier that will help
    precipitate the particles out of the water.  I've found them to
    be effective.
    
    You should consider opening the pool very early.  I did mine in
    early May.  That way you can start nuking the algae before it gets
    out of control.  It also helps to get the solar cover on early so
    the water gets warm faster.
    
    If you are having trouble keeping your pool under control, do not
    panic and throw in tons of chemicals.  You'll be wasting your money
    and possibly messing up the balance which could take a long time
    and more money to correct.  Bring a water sample to the local pool
    store and let them analyze it (for free).  You'll probably feel
    obligated to buy something at their high prices, but at least it
    will be the right thing!

    ...I used to have similar problems....after you've done the chemical
    route....check your filter....like, when was the last time you
    backwashed???????
    
    Rick

    
    I have to agree with .2  Your problem should clear up with normal
    care. The one strike against you is the heat, it makes it difficult
    to control the water. I had a problem at one time which I don't
    think is yours but...  I used a liquid chlorine for years with
    excellent results, one year the more chlorine I addes the cloudier
    the water got, if I let it go and just filtered and added no chlorine
    the water became clear, when I poured in the chlorine it would turn
    green instantly and you could watch it take over the whole pool!
    I took a sample to my local pool dealer, as it turns out I was
    getting a chemical reaction with the liquid chlorine and something
    in my pool water, I switched to powder and the problem disappeared!
    "Believe it ... or not !"
    

    Ref. .3
     I put in new sand this year and backwashed it a couple of times
    already during the 1st vacuuming job. Someone suggested putting
    in some baking soda but I don't know if this would be a good idea.
    Any more suggestions out there?

    I have to second the suggestion to take a sample to the local pool
    place.  They can test it and tell you exactly what to do.  No guess
    work involved.  It's worth the price of the chemicals.
    
    When I bought my pool the pool company warned me not to use HTH
    granulated chlorine.  They said it often times did not fully dissolve
    and made the water cloudy.  I have an automatic chlorinator that
    takes the large chlorine tablets.
    
    Also, in their instructions for opening the pool, they say to put
    in three packets of shock, run the filter continuously for 2 days
    and then to bring in a sample of the water.  Their water test produces
    a "prescription" for what is needed.  Generally applying the
    prescription to the pool takes multiple days.  For example the first
    day you destroy the algae and get the chlorine level where it should
    be, the second you get the ph stabilized, and the third, you add
    the chemicals that clear the water and minimize the suds and stuff.
    
    Each step of the prescription is based on the previous step because
    of alll the interactions that can happen.
    
    They also ask for the temperature of the pool when the sample was
    taken.  This has some bearing on the test too.
    
    BC
    

    -Green is not necessarily algae. It might be minerals in the water
     that come out of solution. You can tell if the green is algae or
     undissolved mineral usually looking for the algae sticking to the
     sides of the pool. If there isn't anything sticking there, your
     problem is likely to be mineral. Also, if you recently added more
     water and your town is notorious for high mineral content (most
     towns are), then you have another indication of mineral problems.

     To correct the mineral problem, get something like "Metal Magnet"
     or "Mineral Remover." It usually works overnight. Keep filter going.
    
    -As far as the cloudiness goes, you should follow preventative
     maintenance for this--next time, clean off your pool cover completely
     before taking it off. Also, always use a solid pool cover--the
     mesh ones let in all sorts of buggers. 
    
     Never use powdered shock, such as HTH (the worst). Use liquid.
     It comes in 1 gallon bottles and is 12% clorine or so. 
    
     Never use chlorine that is less than 95% active ingredient. You
     should try to use one that is stabilized (it will say so on the
     label). To get full benefit of stabilized chlorine you might have
     to add some conditioner to your water at the beginning of the season.
     One other thing about chlorine--I have found that the products
     with names such as "stingy sticks" or "slow pokes" work the best.
     Always put the chlorine in the skimmer.
    
    -Make sure you put new sand in at the beginning of the season. Fill
     halfway with water first to avoid damaging the pipes. Always backwash
     new sand for about 5 minutes to get rid of the fine particles.
    
    -Your filter should be oversized. For a 24' round pool, nothing
     less than a 1hp motor with 100lb of sand will do. Better yet, get
     a 1.5 hp motor with 150lb of sand. Don't get galvanized steel.
     The plastic is the best, but stainless steel will do.
    
    -When you open the pool, plan on leaving the filter running round
     the clock for at least three days. Run your filter for at least 
     8hrs every day after that. Get a timer or photocell so you don't
     forget to turn it on.

    
    Regards,
    
    Marty

    The last few replies to note 2187 already have discussions on pool
    chemicals and balancing the water.  Check there before proceeding
    to dump more chemicals in.  Make sure you've got the water balanced.
    
    Don't add baking soda unless your Total Alkalinity is too low. 
    It will also raise the pH.  That can cause cloudy water and scaling.
    
    As a couple of people suggested - take a sample in to a pool store
    and have it checked.  Also, as .-1 said, green water doesn't always
    mean algae - it could be minerals.  Be careful here - adding certain
    chemicals could cause a reaction and end up staining the pool
    permanently (possible with concrete/gunite - I don't know about
    liner pools).  This should only be a problem if you added significant
    amounts of water to the pool.
    

    Are you adding chlorine every day and are you doing it in the evening?
    You sure picked some brutal weather to be opening your pool by.
    The hot sun does a number on the pool water.
    When I take my pool cover off in the spring, there is always a buildup
    on the bottom.  I vac it right away, clean the filter, then for
    the first couple of days I add a little extra chlorine.  By the
    end of the week, everything's fine.
    
    Chris D.

    I've checked through the notesfile and haven't really found an answer
    to my question, so...
    
    I have a "kids" pool - 12' x 24", with filter (1/25 hp - cartridge).
    It is a 1,670 gal filled to about 80%, call it 1300 gal (after last
    night's storm, probablyl closer now to 1,600 gal!).
    
    For me, it's critical chemical balance is correct since my 3 & 5
    yr olds "live" in the pool.
    
    After filling, the filter ran for 24 hrs (cleaned every 6 - but
    was VERY clean).  Akalanity was checked (and was OK), PH was adjusted
    then chlorine was added - all following sequence and adhering to
    time requirements between adding/adjusting chemicals.
    
    Now, I run the filter (after a good cleaning of the cartridge) every
    night for 5 hours.  During this time, the pool PH and CL is checked.
    The PH requires only slight adjustment (up) every 3rd day.  The
    chlorine reads 0 every night, but is adjusted to 1.0 every 2nd day.
    Once a week, Algecide (liquid) is added (1 oz) and the liner is
    scrubed and vacumed every 2nd day.  Sounds like a lot of work but
    it's important to me the pool remains clean.
    
    But, my question is this...I use SOCK-it chlorine (unstablized)
    rather than stabalized.  I was told since it dissipated quickly
    and provided adequate protection, it was safest to use for the kids
    because the level would be low while they were in the pool.  Is
    this correct?  Should I opt for a stabalized chlorine?  There has
    been no problems so far - with burning eyes, or smell on wet/dry
    swimsuits.
    
    By the way, all this pool activity/cleaning is done after 6 pm at
    night.  No pool cover is on (unless water reaches 86 degrees and
    I'm trying to lower the temperature.  The pool has been "open" for
    3 weeks.
    
    thanks for any feedback.
    
    "Jacques"

    How often do you shock the pool?
    
    Another thing, if you're using the standard  Cl and ph tester, you
    can measure the "combined" CL.  When you put the 5 drops in the
    sample, and do the color comparison immediately, what you're testing
    is the free or uncombined CL.  If you wait a couple of minutes,
    the color of the sample will change and give you an indication of
    the combined CL level.
    
    I shock my every other Sunday night, and add an algae killer on
    Monday morning.  
    
    There's also a real good note on pool chemicals.  I'll find the
    number and post it here.
    
    Bill (on the other MAGIC :^))
    

    Look at note 2187.18
    

    I may not have made myself clear...I'll try again...
    
    When I perform my CL check, within the first 10 sec, the reading
    is perfectly clear - and remains clear forever after...
    
    When I said I added chlorine, I am doing so by using SOCK-it.  5
    min after using SOCK-it, the reading is between 1.0 - 2.0. and this
    is done around 7pm every 2nd day.  By noon the following day, the
    reading is again -0-.
    
    My question is, should I be using regular chlorine (stabilized)
    and use SOCK-it only periodically (at a higher rate) to shock the
    pool?  I was told by a pool dealer that using regular chlorine was
    unecessary since the pool was so small, and simply using SOCK-it
    every 2-3 days in small amounts would do the job.  It appears to
    be doing ok, I'm just a little nervous about pumping chemicals into
    the pool every couple days...especially chlorine.  Kids have a habit
    of injesting large amounts of water as they play, and with such
    a small amount of water, and never having done this before, I was
    just nervous about "chemicals" in the pool.
    

    A little chlorine isn't going to hurt the kids.  Kids have been
    swimming in public pools for years with HUGE concentrations of
    chlorine.  I think you will be better off adding a little chlorine
    each night rather than a lot every two nights.  That way algae will
    have less time to get started in-between shocks.  
    
    I think stabilizing is an overkill for you.  That requires that
    you add the stabilizer (cyanuric acid), and use a stabilized chlorine
    which is added slowly on a more-or-less continuous basis.  To me,
    that means an automatic chlorine dispenser.  All this adds up to
    more cost, but less hassle in the day-to-day operation of the pool.
    
    I've been using HTH for years, without stabilizing.  I'm considering
    getting an automatic dispenser and going to stabilized chlorine,
    but only as the next step in my quest for the lowest hassle setup.
    
    Steve

    re .1	Well, *_I_* shock the pool everytime I disrobe.
    

    I agree with .4 (or was it .3?) stabilized chlorine is probably
    overkill for you.  You are safe using the SOCK-IT.  If adding a
    little every couple of days keeps the water clear and you don't
    get any algae started, that's probably a good schedule.  THe only
    difference between it and the stabilized stuff is that the stabilizer
    (cyanuric acid) reacts with the stabilized chlorine to hold it in
    solution rather than quickly evaporating.  In the presence of
    waste, the chlorine is released to act on the waste (forming
    chloramines).  You're adding the SOCKIT frequently enough to not
    have to worry about available chlorine for long periods.
    
    Your best clue is whether the water stays clear.  If so, and your
    other tests show a good water balance, then sounds like your
    approach is working.  If you notice the water clouding up or algae
    beginning to form, you might add a little more or do it more frequently.

    I'd be real interested to know what/if you were able to "clear"
    up your pool problem.
    
     Our pool went Green a week or so ago.... alos cloudy... the sides
    do NOT appear to have any algae build-up.
    
     I tested (1st season with a pool) the PH and the Chlorine level
    yesterday... The chlorine level was very low (read... barely
    registered)... the PH level was also around the 6.6 mark.
    
     So... I bought the Shock treatment (to raise Chl. level, right?),...
    but after reading all the fine print... I found that I needed to
    increase the PH level first.... ok, fine, according to my test kit,
    it suggested I add some ASH (cannot remember the entire name, perhaps
    soap ash or something to that nature?)... so, I went and bought
    the ash, added the amount suggested... that raised (almost immediately)
    the PH level right up to a 7.6 or so... fine I thought... now to
    give it the shock treatment... I did that and have not yet taken
    a reading for the chlorine level, will do so today after work.
    
     I guess though, that I don't think that what I did yesterday will
    get rid of the green or the cloudiness, what did you do to correct
    your problem?
    
                                     thanks,
    
                                             Perry F.
                                            ----------

    I suggest that you get a water sample to a Bioguard dealer.  I've
    just started using their chemicals and find them to be very good...
    cost is more, but worth it.  You will probably find that a day or
    two after the shock your water will be clear, unless you have some
    other problem...which is why I urge you to have the water tested
    right away.  Be sure to begin adding chlorine after your ch level
    begins to drop below 3.0 or so, so that you maintain an adequate
    level as the shock dissolves.
    
    The three things you have to watch are....ph, alkalinity and chlorine.
    If you keep those balanced and have your water tested at least once
    a year for metals, calcium, etc, you should have no problems.  
    
    I find that when my chlorine is running low I can tell right away
    because my water begins to tint green, although it is still quite
    clear most of the time.  It's a sign of algea, so a shock is in
    line.  

    My parents have had a swimming pool for the past 19 years.  They now
    use Chlorox Bleach to keep the pool clear.  Chlorox contains the
    same ingredient (chorine) as the expensive "pool" chemicals.  Sounds
    horrible, but if you read the contents of both, you may save yourselves
    lots of money.  They live in CT and haven't had any problems.
    
    	- Robin -

    Note on cloeox
    
    It is not exactly the same and may damage linners!
    So be careful!
    

    
    Ok, here is where we now are n regards to our Green Pool :
    
     I went and added the "ash" (PH RISE) and brought the PH right up
    to the appropriate level... I then shocked it... using a powder
    form that I diluted in warm water... that brought the Chlorine up
    to an acceptable level.
    
     Now, 2 days later... I no longer have a green pool, but I now have
    a white"ish" cloudy pool (although it does look better than the
    green, ha ha)... and the chlorine level has dropped a bit.
    
     What can I do?  I will indeed get the water tested over the weekend
    and see what they suggest.  
    
     I wonder though, seeing as how the chlorine level dropped again
    within 2 days... (it is very low, barely readable)... perhaps the
    chlorine tab we have floating in the pool just isn't enough??
    
     we have one tab floating in the pool, when it is gone we replace
    it... perhaps I should try and place 2 tabs in the pool??
    
     The pool is not huge by any means, it is approx. 2000 gallons,
    mainly bought with the kids in mind, although I have cooled off
    in it many times as well, ha ha.
    
     I have backflushed and the water seems to filtering ok.
    
     I imagine that there must be some other chemical I get the pleasure
    of adding right?
    
     Should I shock it again (its only been 2 days)?
    
                     Much thanks for any and all advice.
    
                                          Perry F.
                                         ----------
    
    

    
    
    
       Only 2000 gallons of water??? I know a guy who will fill that
    pool with clear fresh spring water for 50 bucks. He'll actually
    deliver 2,500 gallons at that price. It's probably costing you
    that much just to get the chemical right.
    
    
    BAL

    I am a new pool owner.  I just put up a 24' round above ground pool.
    I sepent all last week filling the pool from my well.  After sitting
    for almost a week the water was a very mirky green.  I went to a
    pool store in my area and was given the following steps to do
    
    	1. 2 qts of pool magnet to remove the iron of which I have a
    		large dose.
    	2. 1 qt of algicide after an hour.
    	3. the next day start adding clorine and try to get a level
    		of 1.0
    By the fourth day of green cloudy water My wife went back with another
    water sample.  The new answer was still very high iron.  The following
    was the new process.
    
    	1. add "sparkle" to the filter (this stuff makes the filter
    		pick up smaller particles) and watch the pressure.
    	2. when pressure reaches max then backflush and add new sparkle
    	3. try to maintain clorine level.
    
    By the sixth day the water is still mirky green.  Back for more
    tests.  The next instructions were to shock the water and increase
    the amount of sparkle being used.  Well it was shocked yesterday
    and this morning - mirky green water.  
    
    The problem seems to be that I can't get the iron out and my mind
    is turning mirky green.
    
    Any help out there!    
    
    
    this mor
    	

    	When I installed my pool the first step was to add "iron out"
    and run the filter for 24 hours without adding any other chemicals.
    The next step was to backwash the filter and balance the PH of the
    water. If the PH is not balanced the chlorine (whaterever you use)
    is ineffective or not as effective as it should be. Try to get the
    iron level down and then balance the PH while running the filter 
    continuously. After the PH is correct then balance the chlorine
    level. Hope this helps.
    
                                                   Wayne
    

    re:18
    	I bought a 24' round and I stayed away from filling it myself.
    Of course it's kind of late to say that but it paid off spending
    the money because they brought the water in treated to some degree.
    	I'm also using BAQUACIL rather than chlorines etc. I put in
    1-1/3 pints of baquacil per week, 2 oz. of baquacide-50 (algaecide)
    per week and test for ppm of baquacil and pH. Once a month I add
    1 gallon of Baqua-shock. It may be a bit more expensive overall
    (Baquacil=$26.99/gal,cide=$15.99/qt,shock=$12.99/gal) but I only
    treat once a week. I have the pH up and down ($13.00 for 3lbs.ea)
    and that's all I do. I did have to do the Iron out and calcium hardness
    thing the first 2 weeks but that was a piece of cake (cup per day)
    	Anyway my pool is crystal clear, no Chlorine smell, red eyes
    or anything. You may want to investigate using the Baquacil. It
    doesn't work with other chemicals so you have to determine the added
    expense you want to incur. Good Luck...
    
    Ken

    re:18

        I have used  pool  magnet  which is to remove metals.  I put in a
        double dose and had very little come out of my filter (the filter
        is a sand filter).   Each  time  I have it tested they still show
        very high iron.  The PH and clor is balended.  

    re:19 
        I just found out about that BAC.  stuff and like the idea.  I had
        a few words to say to the  pool  store  for not pointing me to in
        the first place.  When I get all  straightened  out I am going to
        switch to it.

    

< re: Note 2392.17 by HIHOSS::HOSSFELD --- <MIRKY AND GREEN! >-


        This story  has  an  ending!    I went the route of a couply more
        chemical treatments with  NO  change  in  the  iron  content.  

        On saturday my wife asked  if  I  should hook up another filter I
        had in the celler.  I  thought  that  the filter was another sand
        filter.  To my surprise it was an earth filter.  So we decided it
        couldn't hurt to try it.  I bought the earth  and,  filled  it up
        and put the hoses in the pool.  

        Well to my shock on Sunday morning the water was sparkling clear.
        My only upset was that the  pool store I was going to was correct
        in all of there assesments except that  I  feel  they should have
        been able to tell me that the sand filter wouldn,t clear the iron
        out!

        As  far as selling merchandise, if they told me that I would have
        bought an  earth  filter  from  them  to  cure  my problem.  I am
        assuming that the  sand filter I have will maintain the water now
        that its clean.

        Success is wounderful -  and my tribe of KIDS are now happy - and
        my wife and I - are now nervous.
        
        
    	

    I have been told, by a friend who owns a pool company, that while
    bacquasil (sp?) is great for no red eyes, smell ... It does have
    other problems.  While chlorine has a tendency to bleach the color
    out of a vinyl lining bacquasil has a tendency to dry them out and
    cause them to crack sooner.  For this reason I decided to stay away
    and stick to chlorine.
     

    I've got an in-ground gunite pool, black plaster, 23,000 gallons, DE
    filter.  Have had it for a year.  My problem is that I seem to be using
    more chlorine than I think I should be.  In order to keep the reading
    in the safe zone, I have to use four or five sticks of chlorine every
    three or four days....which I haven't been doing.  I just use two
    sticks every three or four days and let it run on the low side.  I use
    Bio Guard Stingy Sticks (stablized), run the filter 12 hours per day and
    I shock every two weeks and add algeacide the day after the shock. Pool
    temperature has been running about 87 degrees in the last several
    weeks. Pool activity is relatively steady....two people in it several
    times per day. I've been told my most people that they use five to six
    sticks every week. I've checked all known NOTES in this conference but
    I still have the problem.  At this rate, I will use @$200-250 a season
    for stablized chlorine to keep the chlorine at a safe level. 

    I've brought samples to the pool shop and all chemicals test fine. They
    suggest I might have an algae problem, as algae can consume large
    quantities of chlorine, and have suggested a triple dose of shock. The
    symptoms I have are that the water is tinted a bit on the green side,
    although it is still crystal clear, and recently four swimmers
    (including myself) have developed ear infections.  Now I feel I will
    have to bring the level up regardless of cost. 
                                                          
    Any other suggestions?  I've read notes 2392, 2413 and 2187.                   
                                           
    PS. Total Alkalinity, PH and metals are fine.                
                      

    
    I looked at pace chlorine, I bought a bucket of jumbo tabs at bradlees
    on sale yesterday. I noticed they had more available chlorine than the
    hth I have been getting ripped off for over the years. This year, I
    have used a lot more chlorine than last. The pool temp, the ammount of
    alge floating around that you cannot see will really double the burn
    time of the chlorine. I think the extremely hot summer is the culprit
    here including the ammount of direct sunlight hitting the water. Watch
    it for the next few weeks if the temp drops off and the days get a bit
    shorter/cloudier and I think you will see the usage drop off. I tend to
    keep 2 jumbo tabs in the skimmer all the time, shock it once a week and
    put the brand name alge master in once a week also. I have noticed a
    bit of cloud in it but it seems to be diminishing. Hope I have calmed
    your fears, there isn't only one solution to the ammount of chlorine
    one uses. If someone urinates in the pool it blasts the chlorine level
    all to heck also. Use the 5 way test kit, keep a close eye on it and
    run the chlorine level a bit higher and see.
    
    
    Hope some of all that helps or sheds light.
    
    Happy pooling.
    
    chuck

      Chlorine dissipates MUCH faster in the warm weather. Also
    as -1 suggests look for the chlorine with the most active ingredient.
    (you'll find that it is TRIcholro something as opposed to DIchloro...)
    The chlorine I use is 90% active ingredient (it says that's the highest) 
     It may cost a little more initially but usually works out to less
    for the same effect. You can also look into mail-ordering your chlorine
    to get a break in cost that way. My inground is ~30,000 gal. and
    I use about 40lbs. of chlorine a year.
    
      I assume you have the proper amout of stabilizer (cyanuric acid)
    in your pool? (this helps control the dissipation of stabilized
    chlorine)
    
    					Kenny

    Could there be some sort of interaction between the pool water and
    the plaster that is eating up your chlorine?  I seem to remember
    that plaster pools do something like leeching chlorine for the first
    couple of years.
    
    On the subject of chlorine...
    
    I've been buying TRICHLORsomething in 10 pound containers from my
    pool company for about $45 a wack.  10 pounds is will get me through
    half a season.  Anyway to make a long story short, I ran out of
    chlorine on Saturday, and went to my neighbor's to borrow a couple
    of sticks.  (His pool was put in my the same company as mine, but
    he buys chemicals from various sources).  He gave me some PACE sticks.
    The container label says the sticks are THRCHLORsomething and on
    the back of the container, there is the Olin logo.  The Olin logo
    is also on the SUN chlorine I've been buying.  I suspect they come
    from the same chemical factory.  Now the real news is that the PACE
    stuff goes for around $50 for 15 pounds.  This represents a real
    savings that I can spend buying food and drink for all those
    summer-time friends who like to drop by on hot days.  
    
    BTW, my neighbor uses SOCK-IT shock which is also cheaper than what
    I buy from the pool company (BIOguard Burn Out) and has the same
    active ingredients in the same percentages.
    
    I guess that free T-Shirt with the pool company name really isn't
    free.
    
    BC
    

    re .25:
    Can you say more about mail-order chlorine?  Where, how much, etc?
    
    re .26:
    Leeching chlorine could be a factor, but I think the weather has
    been more of a factor.  I have noticed in the last couple of days
    since the cooler weather has hit, the usage has gone down dramatically.
    I think the humidity also has alot to do with promoting algae.
    
    I've been using the BIO Guard sticks at about $54.00 for 10 lbs.
    It's got 90% available chlorine.  I think I'm going to try keeping
    some granular or some liquid shock around and give it some small
    doses occasionally when the weather demands it.  It seems that waiting
    two weeks between shocks in the real hot weather just isn't doing
    it and it's too expensive to use the sticks to compensate.
          
    Thanks.

      I've been getting a majority of my pool chemicals from a place
    called Leslie's. It is a large chain (~60 stores around the country)
    which does mail order. I am VERY happy with the prices, delivery,
    and the fact that there's no sales tax for Mass. 90% chlorine in
    1" or 3" tabs is $70 for 25 lbs! They also have the other types
    of chlorine but I don't use it so I can't quote the prices. They
    ship UPS, have NO shipping charges, and I usually have my stuff
    in 7 days or less. They have an 800 number which I will post tomorrow.
     Just a call and they will send you a catalog.
    
      Note, using an Oxy shock like Bio-Guard burn-out is expensive
    and not needed unless you want to swim right away. For normal overnight
    use, a liquid shock of ~12% of (whatever's in Chlorox) is completely
    sufficient and is about 1/3 the cost of an Oxy-type shock. But in
    any case Leslie's sells all of this stuff.
    
    				Hope this helps,
    					Kenny 

    My sister-in-law works for McCarthy Pools.  She's been helping us
    out with our in-ground pool.  She told us the best type of chlorine
    to use is granular.  She also suggests putting in Chlora-save (I
    think thats the name of it) at the beginning of the summer.  You
    put in a whole 4lb. container into the pool.  
    
    We've done everything she told us and we've spent around $100.00
    for the whole summer.  We haven't had any problem with chlorine
    levels or the water changing color.  This is also our very first
    time having an in-ground pool.
    
    She also said to direct the nozel (that moves the water) up so
    that the surface of the water is constantly moving.  It also helps
    push bugs, etc into the skimmer.
    
    Kathy

    Forgot to mention that my sister-in-law says the HTH isn't
    any good.  We bought a 50lb (I think) drum of Refresh for about
    $75-80.  I think we have about 1/2 left.
    
    No, we didn't get family discounts either.
    
    Kathy

    BTW, McCarthy Pools is one of the few places I trust.  They have
    saved my hide more than once and offset bad pool advice given by
    other, even large, dealers.  When my pump stopped pumbing, a local
    place immediately wanted to sell me a new pump.  When I went to
    McCarthy, they told me how to clean the crud out of the impeller
    at no expense.  In other words, they are also honest and not out
    for the buck.
     

    If there is a NAMCO near you, check them out for their sales on
    chemicals - they run them fairly frequently.  They usually will
    have coupon sales where you can get chemicals for 1/2 price.  I
    get their circulars in the mail and stock up during the sales.
    I've compared prices with Leslie's mail order and can usually
    meet or beat them.  Since I always go to one in NH (Derry or Nashua),
    I don't pay tax either.
    
    I have gotten miffed at them a couple of times when towards the
    end of a sale, they didn't have sale items left on the shelves
    (early on the last day of the sale).  So now I just make sure to
    go as soon as I can after the sale starts.
    
    Rob

    
    Hi pool lovers,
    
    	i am a new owner of a pool, and i have tons of questions
    which my husband and i always argue about :-), well, i am just
    too suspicious about the way he maintain the pool..... :-)
    
    	i read the notes that you folks entered about pool, but
    i could not find a note for a beginner like me....
    
    	initially, i have two questions....
    
    	1) can you recommend a good book (not too thick) about all
    	   the things you want to know about pool? or a simple
    	   manual booklet will be even more desirable....
    
    	2) we have a pool look like kidney bean, is it a lined pool
    	   or a gunite pool (i read the note somebody had a overview
    	   of all kinds of pools, but i just have no idea of what's
    	   under the white surface of the pool)? 
    
    	thank you very much.
    rita

    
      The best book I've found for all normal pool maintenance is
    by Bioguard, titled The Pool Book. It is only about 50 pages and
    will be available at any Bioguard dealer (there are many in the
    Mass./NH. area). It's very clear and I've found it to be very helpful
    and uncomplicated, esp. when diagnosing problems.
    
      It's easy to tell if your inground pool is Gunite or a vinyl liner,
    Gunite pools are cement lined, vinyl-lined pools are just that -
    vinyl lined. If the inside surfaces of your pool are very smooth
    and plastic-like, then your pool is vinyl lined. If they are slightly
    rough, like cement, then you most likely have Gunite-type pool.
    Most pools of irregular shapes - like yours - are Gunite.
    
    					Kenny 

    
    thank you for the quick response. i will look into the book.....
    
    so my husband win the first round... what kind of pool we have....
    
    how about this.... he emptied pool last winter, claiming that he
    did not know what kind of chemical the previous maintenance person
    had in it (the house was empty 10 month before we bought it, and
    he suspected some pool people maintained it for that period of
    time), but, he swam and maintained the pool for the whole
    summer, and.... i wonder, is it good for the pool to be empty 
    and exposed to the snow, wind.... all winter? is it necessay to
    dump the water out before all the "he-called" maintenance in?
    and how do we fill the wanter now? we have a well, and we are
    located close to a pond.... can we use the well water? or
    any other method????
    
    thank you.
    
    rita

    I have never owned or operated a Gunite pool, so maybe I'm wrong,
    but nobody I know of ever empties their pool completely.  You need
    to get the water out of the pump, filter, skimmer and hoses, but
    the bulk of the water can remain in the pool for the winter.  Please
    verify this with another gunite pool owner.

    
        
    I've heard that you can get a big tanker truck to deliver water
    to your house.  That might be the way to go to get your pool filled
    up.  That's a WHOLE LOT of water to get out of a well, especially
    with what looks like a drought coming up.  Also, if your well water
    is real hard, you may want to get some better water delivered.
    
    
    Steve
    
    
    
    

    Other pool notes suggesting contact the fire department.  They said
    that fire departments will sometimes hook up to the local fire hydrant
    and fill your pool for a nonimal fee.  Others suggested that the
    local scouts in the area have pool filling operations.  
    
    Check 1111.81 for a listing of all other pool notes.

    
      Normally, you should only drain an in-ground pool about 1'-1.5'
    down for the winter. (enough to get it ~6" below the skimmer). I doubt
    very much that you have caused it any harm though. The biggest problem
    you will have is getting all of the chemicals balanced after you
    add all of that new water. Some things in pool water only go away
    very slowly, like stabilizer and baking soda. These will have to
    be added in fairly large quantities to get the new water balanced.
    (read The Book first)
    
       Filling a pool from a well can cause problems. If you decide
    to fill you pool from your well, do it a little at a time over a
    couple of weeks, and don't open the faucet all the way, maybe half
    way. Run it for 2-3 hours twice a day, and the pool should get filled
    in about 2 weeks.
       You can purchase, usually through a pool supplier, Conditioned
    water. Conditioned water usually means that the PH is all set, all
    you would have to do is add the specific pool chemicals you'd need.
    This water is relatively inexpensive, I seem to remember about $50
    for a few thousand gallons. Of course it would take a few of these
    to fill your pool. Also, mother nature sometimes helps with the
    spring rains!
    
    					Kenny

    I would strongly recommend hooking up with a BioGuard dealer that is
    involved in opening and closing pools.  I noted your node is in
    Chelmsford.  I use Dunk N' Bubble in North Acton, Rt 27.  Use them one
    year to open an close your pool, then decide if you want to do it
    yourself.  Use them for chemical balance.
    
    I would not drain a pool in the winter.  You can run into more problems
    and it is more costly and time consuming to open the pool in the
    spring.  As previously mentioned, you need only take enough water
    out to clear the tile by a few inches (if you have accent tile around
    the top of the pool) in order to prevent the tile from cracking
    as a result of ice expansion; clear and cap the pipes; clean the
    filter system; add winterizing chemicals; cover with a solid cover.
    As I recall Dunk N' Bubble would do all of that for @$150...but
    don't quote me exactly.  I had them do a partial closing for me
    last year and I think it came to about $120.  They pumped and capped
    the lines and added chemicals...I did the rest. 

    New pool owner, just added house water and chemicals.
    
    The water originally tested low in iron, alkalinity and pH. I got the
    alkalinity to 100 ppm with sodium bicarb, brought the pH up a notch
    with sodium carbonate to 7.4, and then added an initial dose of 10 oz.
    of Sock-It to clorinate. Within 5 minutes the chlorine was slightly
    above 3 ppm, and the water went from crystal clear to a light green.
    It's not murky, I would say this is definitely a chemical reaction and
    not algae. Previous notes talked about murky green and iron, but as I
    said, my iron tested low.
    
    Now what?

    re: .34
    
    If you have a pool supplier nearby, just bring a sample of the water
    and they will test it free of charge.

    Re: .34
    
    Both the times I have opened my pool, I have experienced the same
    problem. As soon as I add the shock the pool takes on a green tint.
    
    To cure this problem I use two products that I bought at my local
    pool supplier. First I add a small amount of "IRON-OUT", this is
    a powder and I mix it with a bucket of pool water. I then add 
    3-4 oz of "POOL-PRUF" this is a liquid which is described as a 
    'Polymeric clarifier'. Whatever it is it sure makes the water crystal
    clear and it stays that way. The directions want you to put enormous
    amounts of this product in the pool, but I have only used the amount 
    above. By the way I add the chemicals in the morning and by about 
    mid-day the pool is clear.
    
    Dave 

.-2 has the right idea, Bill.  Get the water tested before chucking chemicals
in the pool.  Most pool stores will do it, but be sure to see if they test for
minerals.  Some just do a couple of the basic tests.  If you don't think it's
algae, I'd test the water before going very far.

Rob

    Well, I looked through the chemistry set that came with the pool, and
    sure enough, there was a bottle of mineral remover. After consulting
    with some neighborhood "experts" (veterans of one season or more), I
    threw it in, and the pool was clear the next day.
    
    Two comments and a question:
    
    	Dosage - the stuff I used recommended one quart per 1000 gallons,
    	under which rules I should have put in four more bottles! One fifth
    	of the recommended dosage (what I had on hand) did the trick overnight.
    
    	Professional testing - all the local expertise pointed to an
    	overabundance of minerals, yet when I had the water tested
    	(Surfside Pools in Fitchburg), they reported OK iron, low
    	"total hardness" (new to me), and OK "other minerals"; there was
    	no indication in their suggested treeatment that I use a mineral
    	remover.
    
    	"Total hardness" - the more I think about this one, the more it
    	confuses me. Isn't "hardness" just a measure of disolved minerals?
    	The report indicates that my total hardness is low; less than
    	55ppm, with ideal being 100-200ppm. Why would I want to raise this,
    	and how? Wouldn't I just be reintroducing the problem that was
    	fixed by the mineral remover?
    

    Hi Bill, glad to hear your pool is clear again. The first time this
    happened to me, I talked to the guy who installed the pool. His
    story was that when you shock the pool there is sufficient free
    chlorine in the water that it will combine with the iron and cause
    the green tinge. He also told me that the quantities described for
    the IRON-OUT are for high iron problems, and not to use too much. 
    
    The same was true for the clarifier he told me not to use large
    amounts.
    
    As for professional testing - I went to a local pool store where
    the guy who did the tests was a college student working his vacation
    and his suggestions were based on no knowledge whatsoever. I went
    to a second store where the lady who did the testing certainly knew
    what she was talking about and solved my problem quickly and without
    filling the pool with unneeded chemicals. 
    
    Cheers,
    
    Dave    

    Re: .38 on "total hardness".  Why would you want to raise
     total hardness?
    
    Depending on your pool, pH you keep things at, and present
    "total hardness" level, you may already have a problem. 
    Raising total hardness - to within correct limits - can
    prevent or remove the problem(s).  
    
    If your pool is constructed with tiles, with mortar holding
    the tiles in, a LOW total hardness may lead to the loss of
    mortar, and resulting falling tiles.  Wet mortar has a very
    HIGH concentration of minerals, and if your water has a LOW
    concentration, some of the minerals in the mortar will go
    into the pool water, trying to equalize the concentrations.
    Adding "general purpose" minerals, and raising total 
    hardness, gives the water some "cheap food" to raise its
    mineral content, instead of having it suck the life out of
    the mortar....
    
    I have seen photos of "extreme" cases, where pH, mineral 
    levels, etc. were drastic enough to "eat" the plating off
    of the metal ladders and fittings in one pool.  Expensive!!
    
    Yes, people DO have these problems.  I know of one large
    indoor pool in Massachusetts that (used to, not sure if it
    still does) close down for two weeks every August for pool
    cleaning and re-grouting.  The mortar between the tiles
    would disappear each year....   They were spending THOUSANDS
    of dollars in repairs each year!  The addition of about $30
    worth of minerals brought the total hardness up to within the
    limits.  It cost about $25 to keep it there during the year.
    The next summer, the grout between the tiles was still there....
    
    I don't know what you have for pipes, pump(s>), filters, etc.
    in your system.  Can you think of anything in there that
    would suffer by losing minerals to the water?  Metal pipes?
    Metal filter casing? You get the idea....
    
    And after all the "pool chemistry" questions that are coming
    up, I am definitely going to drag out my reference books,
    notes, etc. and brush up on specifics!  (Maybe I could go to
    work for a pool company??)
    
                                - Ed -

re .38
    
>            	"Total hardness" - the more I think about this one, the more it
>    	confuses me. Isn't "hardness" just a measure of disolved minerals?
>    	The report indicates that my total hardness is low; less than
>    	55ppm, with ideal being 100-200ppm. Why would I want to raise this,
>    	and how? Wouldn't I just be reintroducing the problem that was
>    	fixed by the mineral remover?
    
    
    Hardness is a measure of Calcium, not minerals.
    
    Steve 

    This past spring I had the problem with green tint forming in the
    pool. I first thought it was alge and dumped enough shock, algicide
    and chlorine for a small lake. The green condition just got worst.
    I had the water tested at some place in Fitchburg and they suggested
    I switch to a product called Bacquacil (sp?). First they said I
    had to get rid of all the chlorine. This took about two weeks and
    two doses of some chlorine eliminating product. After I added the
    Bacquacil algicide, shock and chlorine substitude. Now my water
    is beautifully clear but my wallet is empty. The bacquacil product
    seems to do a fine job but at $26 a shock each month and the additional
    $27 per half gallon of maintenance product(lasts about a month also)
    the expense seems high. I wish I would of tried the mineral removing
    chemical before making the switch to Bacquacil because some of the
    earlier notes seem to have solved the green tint problem this way.
    I did notice that as the level of chlorine dropped, diring the removal
    of it in preparation for using Bacquacil, the pool's green tint
    went away. I concluded that the chlorine must of been reacting with
    something in the pool water to cause the green tint. This would
    explain why the algicides would not work and the more I added chlorine
    products, the greener it got. 
     Now that my pool is clear once again I have a couple of questions
    about the Bacquacil product. Is it really necessary to use the
    expensive shock product every month. By doing so my seasonal costs
    would run well over $300 per season, using Bacquacil products. My
    other option of returning to chlorine would run about $100 per season.
    I do agree that Bacquacil seems to be a great product but unless
    I can get the costs of using it down to something comparable to
    chlorine, it would be hard to justify it's continued use. Is there
    other Bacquacil product users out there and what is your general
    maintenance program look like?
    
    Thanks in advance!
    Bill

	I have been using Bacquacil products for the bast 5 summer swimming
seasons and have had no problems. First of all, I don't use as much as they
recommend (I think they just want to sell chemicals) because if the level 
gets too high it will leave a dry taste in your mouth, so I normally cut back 
on the Bacquacil level (in the 25 to 35% range) and I have had no problem. 
I do have to shock it about every 5 weeks or if you don't the pool will get 
cloudy (to recover is just shock and run your filter day/night till it clears). 
I have never used chlorine products so I really don't know about the 
difference in cost but on a normal season it will cost me about $150 to $200 
for a 25,000 gal.(18'x36 with a hopper to 8') pool. Also I feel I only have 
to run my DE filter for about 6-8 hours a day and my water is crystal clear....


	Everyone that swims likes that their is no odor, no bad taste, no 
stinging eyes, no bleaching hair/suits etc....


	I am very happy with the product, I also know of a few other pool
owners that use Bacquacil and they love its results also.

    	I concur with .43 about the results using Baquacil. I keep the
    level arond 40 ppm. I also thought that it was a bit expensive
    last summer when we had 90-95 degree weather for weeks on end, this
    year however I have added chemicals only once since my initial
    startup in mid-May. Because of the ease of maintenence and crystal
    clear water I plan to keep using it. I think if more pool stores
    would carry it (Is Seasonal Pools the only dealer??) perhaps a little
    competition would drive the price down.
    	The Burlington Seasonal Pool store on Rt. 3A are having a grand
    opening sale celabrating their new store, Baquacil is $21.99 a bottle
    instead of $26.99. Sale goes until July 16th.
    
                                                        Wayne
     

    Are there any problems with using Baquacil (or other non-chlorinated)
    products in indoor pools?
    
    We are planning a home with a large indoor pool and are concerned about
    the long term health effects of breathing the pool chemicals.
    
    Paul

    I'm told that sodium carbonate (PH increaser) will not increase total
    alkalinity but my experience is that is does.  I have trouble balancing
    PH and TA because when I add PH increaser, my TA also goes up.  Anyone
    else experience this?

    I have a black plaster pool that's beginning it's third year and I've
    been dealing with a fading problem.  I have come to the conclusion that
    it is probably fading because I'm using chlorine instead of the
    recommended bromine.   My reluctance to use bromine is three-fold.
    
    1) Cost.. it's about twice the cost of chlorine.
    
    2) Convenience...bromine seems to come only in tabs that are supposed
       to be used in an in-line brominator, which is not (for water
       pressure reasons) in-line with the filter system...so it deposits
       residue occasionally and you have to remember to turn it off while
       vacuuming, then turn it back on again...a real pain.
    
    3) With bromine you need to use non-chlorine shock, which only comes in
       powder form.  You end up having to vacuum the pool after you shock it
       with powder.
    
    Questions:
    
    Anyone seen a stick-type of bromine that you can just plop in your
    skimmer baskets?
    
    Any liquid non-chlorine shock available?
    
    Anyone with a black plaster pool experiencing a staining or fading
    problem?

    
    Aquatech Spa Brom comes in sticks, packaged in plastic. It's more 
    expensive than the tablets.
    
    CdH
    

    Re: .47 and the fading problem....
    
    Are you sure the cause is the chlorine you use?  Yes, you use chlorine,
    and yes, you have a fading problem....  but is that all the evidence
    you have?  
    
    Another possibility is that your pool water's mineral content is
    what is causing it.  If your water has almost nothing for minerals,
    and your pool walls have some....  as somebody put it to me
    years ago.... "if the water doesn't have it, it will be happy
    to suck it out of the pool walls, off the metal ladders, or
    wherever it can get it!".  
    
    The cure is fairly simple, and inexpensive.  You can test the
    mineral content with a small test kit (less expensive than
    some chlorine test kits), and figure out the amount of minerals
    you need (based on your pool size, and present mineral level).
    Then you can "feed" your pool minerals by the 50- or 100-lb bag
    from fairly cheap sources.....  
    
    I performed the whole calculation for a large indoor pool once...
    it cost about $35.00 for the minerals (about 4 bags worth).  This
    solved the problem they had with tile grout "disintegrating"
    each year....   and for which they closed the pool for expen$sive
    repairs on a yearly basis.  
    
    If you really need, I might be able to hunt up my notes on it...
    but asking your pool store would probably be easier and quicker.
    
    			- Ed -

    I should have said that I'm a regular customer at the local pool
    chemical supply store, have my water tested regularly, and all
    chemicals are in balance...no excessive metals, etc.  Since the
    pool is going into it's third year I suspect that early leaching of 
    plaster chemicals could be causing some of the stain but it is still
    much more than you would expect from a black plaster pool.

    I now believe the fading problem was calcium bleeding through the
    plaster during the natural curing cycle.  Normal curing apparently
    takes between one and two years.  I believe it has stopped however,
    I'll need another year of observation to really be sure.  I also
    believe it is related to a problem I had with chlorine consumption.  As
    I mentioned in .23, I had been using tons of stablized chlorine...much
    more than the pool supply people say I should be using.  Near the end
    of last season, the chlorine consumption dropped dramatically, and
    since the beginning of this season I have noticed the trend of nominal
    usage continuing.  I have gone from 5-6 sticks a week (beginning of
    last year) to 1-1.5 sticks per week.  
    
    Representatives at the pool builder (Aquatech) told me that chlorine
    should not fade black plaster any faster than bromine, and that you can
    experience chemical bounce during curing.  So I am theorizing that the
    cause of the chlorine consumption problem is the same as the fading.
    
    They offer a service called acid suspension wash, which is essentially
    the extreme lowering of your PH, then a brushing of the pool plaster to
    remove the calcium buildup.  After next year I might consider it.
    
    

    This was touched on a couple of years ago in this note, but there
    wasn't much discussion about it...
    
    Is there really any difference between liquid shock treatment and
    regular chlorine bleach (Clorox, etc.)?  Our pool got out of control
    while we were away on vacation, and I've had to shock it a few times
    since then.  There are no pool supply places in my immediate area, and,
    after reading the labels, I got to thinking about using bleach instead.
    
    The ingredients list on a bottle of shock treatment says:
    
    		Sodium Hypochlorite......5.xx%  (forgot the exact number)
    		Inert ingredients.......94.xx%
    
    Funny thing is, the ingredients on a bottle of Clorox are exactly the
    same.  And, both of them look and smell the same.  
    
    So, the question is......... are they the same?  Is there anything in
    the "inert ingredients" to worry about?  The earlier discussion here
    was limited to one reply that said "use Clorox", and another one that
    said "don't - it might hurt your liner".  I know I'm not the only one
    who ever thought of using bleach for a pool.  Does anyone have any
    stories (good/bad/other) to tell?
    
    /Don
    

I've used it in our gunite without a problem. The shock is 
generally stronger approx. 6%, while Chlorox is around 3%. 
Chlorox is cheaper unless you get the shock on sale. Namco was 
running a 1.99/gallon sale a few weeks back. I doubt it's still 
on.

daryll

    The shock I've been using is 12.5% sodium hypochlorite.  If the problem
    you've had recently is algae and you're in the northeast, the cause was
    the rain and the humidity.  I'm fighting the same problem now.  I am
    about to use an algaecide following the next shock treatment.

    Well, I live in the northeast, and I've been using Baquacil, and my
    water has stayed crystal clear.  I even left it for a couple of weeks
    while on vacation and the water was nice and clear when I came back.
    
    On an old pool I had, I tried bleach.  The only "side affects" were the
    pool liner turned very light in color and I would get a brown foam on
    the water.  Oh yeah, and it stunk.
    
    Chris D.

    RE .55
    
    We don't use Baquacil but had no problems with our pool when we came
    back from vacation.  We started using a stabilizer a couple of years
    ago (which really cut down on our chlorine consumption).  So, before
    we left we just threw in a couple of scoops of HTH and the water was
    still crystal clear when when got back despite all the rain and heat.
    
    Earlier in the season we started to have a problem with algae so we
    just shocked it and then later used some clarifier - the water's been
    perfect ever since.
    
    ep

    Anyone else in the Greater Maynard Area having a problem with algae in
    their pool recently?  It started about a month ago and I haven't been
    able to get rid of it.  I've tried several doses of shock and some
    algaecide and it is still coming back.  Last night I did a double dose
    of shock (3 gallons of 12.5% for 23,000 gallon pool).  I'm hoping this
    has done it.  Any ideas or comments?  This is the first year I've had
    this kind of problem.

RE: -.1

How's your PH and Alkalinity?  I've found that alkalinity on the high
side (150-200?) of the recommended really seems to keep the algae down.
In fact, last week we forgot to put in clorine sticks and the water
stayed clear ... chlorine test = 0!

You should also check your filter to make sure it's doing the job.
If you have the earth type filter and you don't put enough earth
in, the all the algae does not get trapped in the filter.  ...Or
you could have a hole in the filter (but this would be the least
likely thing).

One more thing.  Whenever the pool is not clear, run the pump 24 hrs/day.

Good luck,
Amy

    Yup.  We had a severe algae problem over the last few weeks.  I kept
    shocking, used algaecide, etc., watched chlorine and PH, but it kept
    coming back.  Then, about a week ago, I picked up a gallon bottle of
    algaecide at Spag's (sorry, I don't remember the brand name).  Bingo! 
    That cleared it up completely.
    
    Now, you tell me... was it that brand of algaecide that did the trick,
    or the fact that the weather turned cooler?  In any event, my water is
    crystal clear now, and staying that way.  Also, my chlorine consumption
    is way down from what it was a couple of weeks ago.
    
    /Don
    

Your chlorine was coming out of solution with the hot weather so there was 
nothing to counteract the algae. The cool weather helped. Just for fun, check 
you chlorine level once an hour after adding it on a hot day. You will be amazed 
at how fast it depletes.


Could be stale/old chemicals but how long does it really hang around?? You buy
it when you need it and use it once it's opened.

    I had the same problem, recurring algae, and this is what did the
    trick (recommended by pool supplier). (20,000 gal pool)  
    
    1. Drop the ph. 
    
    2. Wait at least 4 hours.
    
    3. Add 5 lb. dry shock. (I used Sock-it)
    
    4. Brush Pool walls.
    
    5. When chlorine level drops (it took 36-48 hours) raise ph to normal
    level and add maintenance dose of algecide.
    
    
    I did this four weeks ago and have not had a problem since.
    
    
    Serv

    Just to report on the results.  I think the problem was a high PH,
    which was promoting algae growth. I've been fighting a high PH problem
    all year.  Have had to add about 1/2 gallon of acid a week.  I brought
    the PH down to 7.4 and added Algaezine to kill the existing algae. 
    This appears to have worked.  I like the idea of bringing the PH down 
    even lower if need be.  If this happens again, I'll try that first.
    
    

    
      Well, its time again to play with chemicals, this time of year I
    feel more like a chemical engineer than a software eng. Last year
    I started using Baquacil, great stuff if you won the lottery recently,
    my initial cost for a 20'x40' was somewhere in the range of $450.00.
    Now I needed shock treatment! The pool saleswoman that I dealt with
    (Bemister's) stated that the first year with Baquicil would be
    expensive, and that it would be much cheaper the following year.
    
      In one year I spent three years worth of chlorine. I grew-up on
    a chlorine pool and had all those experiences with a fading suit
    and liner, not to mention the chlorine fragrance.
    
      My question to you, the seasoned experts, will it be cheaper to
    use the Baquicil this year, and how much cheaper? Or should I 
    go ahead and use the chorine tablets and spend more time in
    my chemistry lab(pool house)?
    
     p.s.-this summer I plan to teach my wife SCUBA in my nice
          clean pool.
    
       Thanks,
         ->Scott
    

    Well, for an 18' round, I don't think the cost is that much different. 
    I never had to convert because I started with Baquacil from day one. 
    I'll never go back to chlorine (used in previous pool).  If you want to
    make it easier, from fall to spring, buy a little of what you'll need
    every month.
    
    Chris D.

    Someone earlier on here recommended using Clorox liquid bleach instead
    of the liquid chlorine shock.  I am tempted to try this in my plaster
    in-ground pool.  The ingredients are indeed the same, only in different
    parts.  I can buy liquid shock at 12% chlorine for @ $2.99/gallon, or
    Clorox at a little over 5% chlorine volume for @ $.80/gallon.  That's
    almost 50% savings.
    
    Anyone out there usine Clorox in an in-ground pool in place of
    commercial liquid shock?

I know this is the REAL pool note, but...

has anyone used any chemicals in kid pools?  I just got an 8-foot x 18-inch one
for my daughter, but I don't want to be filling it everyday.  I know they get
grungy fast.  What do other folks do with these little pools?

Can I use Clorox, and if so how much?  Or should I use REAL pool checmicals??

Any ideas welcome... thanks!
                                 --tom

    Well I have a 12'x2' pool and I bought the test kit for ph and
    Clohrine.   Bought Ph+ and Ph- and a small size of Hth clohrine ($14)
    and have been keeping the water in good shape.  Of course the
    instructions on most of these chemicals are looking at pools with 
    zillions of gallons so you have to adjust accordingly.
    
    Do you have a pump and filter with it?
    -Tony

mr moderator,

someone out there a while back mentioned a problem they were having when they
disconnected their filter.  Apparently the filter would blow out all kinds of
air as though a volcano were erupting.  I cannot find the exact note to reply
to so I will reply in this pool-ish note instead.  If you remember where the
other one is feel free to move this.  I do not recall anyone else addressing
this issue either.  If someone has already responded, please delete.
 
I too was experiencing that problem.  I noticed that a little water was leaking
from the intake nozzle on the pump.  I tightened it down with a very large
screwdriver ;~) and the problem went away.  Apparently the filter was sucking
air through the intake nozzle and spewing it back out when the filter was 
switched off.

    RE: .67 
    
    I too have one of those 8' x 18" pools for the 2 year old (and for me).
    
    Does anyone know how many gallons this thing holds?  Can anyone figure
    it out (approx)?  I bought this "Kiddie Pool" stuff for keeping it
    grungi free, but I don't know how much to use.                          
    
    Steve........................................................

    An 8' diameter pool filled to 12 inches deep would contain about 50
    cubic feet of water or about 375 gallons.
    
    That's 31 gallons for every inch of water depth.  Amazin' huh?
    
    Bob

    
    Humm,
    
    Pool is 24' in diamenter 48"high..  Filled to approx 3.5' and tapers to
    deep hole in middle approx 5'.
    
    Wheew.

        One cubic foot is about 7.5 gallons. Ignoring your deep spot,
        which you didn't indicate the size of, you are about 12,000
        gallons.
        

..  
  >>  Pool is 24' in diamenter 48"high..  Filled to approx 3.5' and tapers to
  >>  deep hole in middle approx 5'.
     
    I figure now it has about 15,000..  It starts at the wall.. 3.5 to 4'
    and does begin tapering about a foot or two out finishing in the
    center to a little over 5' deep..
Cal

    I just wanted to share my experience regarding a green algae problem I
    had.  After trying multiple dose shock treatments and failing, then
    Bioguard Algaezine and algaecide unsuccessfully (at about $28.00 total)
    I took a long shot on a gallon of Robelle brand algaecide (at about
    $3.00 on sale...normally $5.00).  This worked like a champ with one
    negative side effect.  It caused sudsing in the water for about a week. 
    The product itself does appear to have a detergent type of consistency.
    Sudsy right out of the bottle.  It's been a couple of weeks and the
    algae has not returned.

Ditto on the Robelle brand.. I tried several other brands of Algaecide with
so so results. I mixed up a bucket of this stuff one evening and the next
morning the algae was gone.....

    re: .68
    
    So you won't lose any sleep over it I asked about my filter problem at
    2388.6. I will get out my LARGE screwdriver and tighten the clamp on
    my intake line. :-)
    
    Thanks

I'm currently in the process of researching all the automatic 
pool cleaners on the market. Does anyone out there actually OWN 
one of these critters? Recommendations?

This is for an inground 20x40 guinite.

thanks
daryll

    I have a Polaris (don't remember the model offhand) in my pool in
    Texas, and love it. I haven't used the vacuum hose at all since the
    pool went in (Sept. 1990)! Now to be fair, I also have no trees over
    the pool. Only problem was with the wheel cracking, but Polaris
    admitted it was a design flaw and replaced them under warrenty.
    
    Eric

    
    Anyone know if Baquacil has a customer service phone number??
    
    Chris D.

    Can anyone recommend a place to purchase pool chemicals at a reasonable
    price???
    
    Vicinity of Maynard/Boxborough/Littleton... but am willing to go as far
    as Nashua(can always spend some time and money at home depot ;-))
    
    thanks
    		-John

    I always mail order supplies from Leslies (California) or Liesure
    Living (Pennsylvania).  They both have 800 numbers you can get from the
    operator.  I generally get both catalogs then look for the cheapest
    price on the item I want.  I rarely see better prices in sales catalogs
    from NAMCO or hardware stores, and you can't beat the convenience of
    UPS delivery.  Stuff usually arrives within 2 to 3 days of ordering.
    
      

    Do either Leslie's or Leisure living sell replacement pump units.  
    Our neighborhopod pool needs 2 replacement pumps; the old Gould 2hp
    units are getting noisy and weak.
    
    Would like to find an inexpensive replacement.....most pool places
    locally are quoting $500 for a 2hp Hayward pump, not including
    installation.
    
    Thx,
    
    Jonathan

    Yup, they sell pumps.  They pretty much sell anything even distanly
    related to pools.  However I don't remember seeing anything about
    providing installation of a pump.
    

    I would like to solicit people on how much they spend a year on
    chemicals. What size pool do you have, inground or above, chlorine,
    baquacil, or bromine, how often do you add chemicals, how often do you
    test the water.
    

    I have an 18' above ground.  I just bought my chemicals for the year,
    and they're as follows:
    
    3 gals liquid shock - $12  (2 to shock at startup time, 1 for spare)
    2 gals liquid algecide - $10 (1 at startup, 1 for spare)
    10 lbs PH Plus - $5  (Lots of pine trees and acid rain - need to
    			  increase pH occasionally)
    8 lbs Chlorine 3" tablets - $24  (this lasts about a whole season)
    
    So, for the year, my chemicals run $51.  I got mine at Namco in
    Hudson NH.  It's my 8th year on the pool, and this does it every
    time.
    
    andy
    

    For my 26,000 gallon inground pool I use about ......
    
    10 lbs of chlorine stix (use @2stix/wk)	@$40
    1 quart of liquid algaecide (concentrate)  $8.00
    @20 gallons of bleach at $20 (use 2 gallons per shock treatment)
    Miscellaneous testing agents $10.00
    25 lbs of earth powder for the filter @10.00 (ok, so it's not a
    chemical)
    
    Jim

    I've noticed that this year my chlorine is not disolving like it did
    last year, its just laying on the bottom of the pool.  I did replace
    the liner and refilled the pool.  
    
    I'm using a batch of chlorine left over from last year.
    
    Any ideas?
    
    MikeB.
    

    Has anyone gone from Baquacil BACK to chlorine?? Horror stories?
    Best move they ever made?? etc...
    

>    Has anyone gone from Baquacil BACK to chlorine?? Horror stories?

	    My in-laws did that.  The water wouldn't clear anymore, after
	over 10 years of Baquacil, so they switched back to chlorine.  I
	guess the water turned color and got real smokey looking while the
	chlorine tried to take over.  It's okay, now.
	    If the Baquicil hadn't become saturated (or whatever), they
	would never have switched back to chlorine.
	
					Tim

	Yes, reluctantly, this year.

	After 2 great years, we just couldn't clear 
	the water last year.  The water was cloudy,
	could hadrly see the bottom. 
	
	Our pool dealer was unable to help, except
	for suggesting one treatment after another,
	none of which produced any positive results.

	I've spoken with others who have this problem,
	and thought of contacting ICI (Baquacil maker)
	over the winter, but instead, decided to switch
	back to chlorine...low tech...more work, but
	1/2 the cost of Baquacil with predictable 
	results.

	Maybe next year, depending on how it goes this
	Summer.

	George
	

    
    	I'm not 100% but I think I've got an algae problem in my above
    	ground pool.  It is a 15' circular pool.  Last week the water
    	started getting cloudy.  And this green stuff started growing
    	on the bottom of the pool.  I added some algaecide and it seemed
    	to stop the algae from spreading.  And the water cleared up.
    	But I still have this greenish residue left on the bottom of the
    	pool.  When it is disturbed it clouds the water.  But later settles
    	back to the bottom.
    
    	Since I only have one of those tiny (one third H.P.?) cartridge
    	filters I cannot effectively vacuum out this residue.  I have
    	one of those plastic type filter heads that you hook up to your
    	garden hose.  It has a cloth bag to collect debris.  And it
    	works fine for sucking up the dead bugs ectetera that collect
    	on the bottom of the pool.  But when I try to vacuum up this
    	dead algae or whatever it is, the stuff is so fine it goes
    	right through the bag.  And ends up clouding up the pool again.
    
    	Any ideas on how I can get this gunk out of the pool?  Does it
    	sound as if it's green algae?  Any and all suggestions are
    	welcome.  Thanks.
    	
    							Paul

    Not sure if it will work but you can try using some super shock it.
    the powder kind.

    Once you get algae, you first have to kill it, then remove it.  Dead
    algae will have a white, powdery appearance, and it has to be filtered
    out of the pool.  When I've had problems with my 18' above ground like
    that, I go out and sweep the pool surfaces regularly for several days
    with the pump running so the algae is filtered out as best I can.  
    Vacuuming can help, but mixing it with the water for filtration is
    the best.  Now, I have a 1 HP sand filter that does a fairly good
    job.  Your 1/3 HP cartridge filter may not be doing a good enough
    job to filter out the algae.  Try chaning the cartridge a few times
    as you're filtering things out.  You should be able to do this, but
    it will take some time and dilligence.  What works best for me overall
    is to use heavy doses of shock and PERMANENT algecide at pool opening.
    This way the algecide stays around for almost the whole season.  Using
    the normal algecide works for a fairly short time, and after a while
    it isn't effective any more.
    
    Hope this helps.
    
    andy
    

    While all of the green-stuff is at the bottom of the pool, take a
    garden hose hook it up to the water spigot, run the other end into 
    the pool a little bit and turn on the water just long enough until
    you feel water coming out of the hose.  Keep the hose submerged in the
    pool.  Disconnect the spigot-side of the hose and lay it on the ground
    away from the pool and house (better if you have it going down-hill of
    the pool).  Use this as a siphon to suck all of the bottom stuff from
    the pool.  It'll take a few minutes but should work better than the 
    wand-bag-waterhose method.
    Then shock the pool while running the filter continously for 24 hrs.
    Then when all is well, make sure that you run the filter a good 8-10
    hours a day to keep it that way.
    
    -TB

    
    Years ago we had the same problem.  Where we bought our supplies,
    the owner recommended we add this "flock" to the water after we
    killed the algae. If you can visualize an oil slick on top of the water
    that will sink, that's what this stuff did. It sticks to the algae
    and makes it real easy to vacuum out.  Mistake I made was not cleaning
    the liner at the surface immediatly thereafter. Kinda rough getting it
    off a day or so later.  :^)
    
    Fred

I just bought a house with an in-ground gunite pool.  The guy
from the pool store told me that I should shock the pool every
two weeks.  So, following the directions I added two bags of
the shock (directions say one bag per 10,000 gallons and the
pool is 25000 gallons).  Well, that was Sunday and as of
today (Thursday) the chlorine level is still above 3.0.  Is
this normal?  Does shocking the pool every two weeks mean
you can't swim in it for 5 days out of that time?  Any way
to bring the chlorine level down?
Thanks,
John

    I have basically the same pool and never have this problem.  Sun
    eats up chlorine and my pool gets very little sun.   besides the
    shock how are you chlorinating it?  I use a floater with the tabs
    that also contain a stabalizer.  After I shock mine I am back down
    to 1.5 within 24hrs max.  I will double check my books but I think
    they said 3.0  is to high for guinite.

???  Why would you shock your pool every two weeks ???

Maintaining the recommended chlorine level will keep it clear all summer.

Not sure why they say shock it every two weeks but I 
have heard that from other people.  I talked to the
pool guy and he suggested a fresh test kit.  Mine came
with the house.  Maybe that's the problem.
John

    
    "Shock every two weeks" comes from people who produce or sell shock
    products.
    
    Keep the available chlorine at 1.5ppm, and once week follow the
    available chlorine test with a residual chlorine test, and let the
    results tell you when to shock.
    
    I usually shock when opening and closing the pool, after I get back
    from a week of vacation, and once in a great while after an assortment of
    young neighbors have used the pool heavily (and the bathroom lightly).
    

>>    "Shock every two weeks" comes from people who produce or sell shock
>>    products.
    
I had a suspicion that was the reason.  
Well, I bought a new test kit and it also reads 3.0 for chlorine.  The
only thing I can figure at this point is that maybe because I added
muriatic acid at the same time as the shock the reading is staying 
high.  The new test kit says 'don't add muriatic acid at the same time
as chlorine' but it doesn't say what will happen if you do.
John

    Keeping the clorine level at 1.5ppm does not guarantee a clear pool. I
    have an inline automatic clorinator and was still having problems with
    cloudy water and getting a alge growth on the pool bottom. It was
    recommended that the pool be shocked every 2 weeks and algacide once a
    week. The water has been crystal clear ever since. 
    You may argue about the procedure, but not the results.
    
    Doug

    Cloudy water can also be attributed to too high of a ph reading.
    
    As for alge, it's a good idea to brush the sides of your pool; as well
    as vacuuming the pool.  This breaks up the protective layer, that the
    alge makes around itself, so that the chlorine can attack better.

    I am getting around to the idea of opening up the pool and have bought
    opening chemicals. What I'd like to know from more experienced pool-
    owners is...
    
    a) What is the correct "sequence" for chemical addition at opening
    time.
    
    b) Is there any "watch-outs" I should be aware of with a gunite pool.
    
    c) I don't see anything in the notesfile explaining the relationship
       or, to be more accurate, differences in PH level and total
       alkalinity. My basic high school chemistry taught me about PH
       balance...acid v's alkaline etc etc, so why would total alkalinity
       be a "seperate" issue requiring measurement & control ?
    
    d) Does a list appear anywhere in these file ( I couldn't find one )
       which lists all the "normal" chemicals for pools and what they are
       used for e.g. PH increasers/ reducers, Cl stabalisers......
    
    Trevor (who's not sure if his knowledge of pools is worse or better
            than his knowledge of notes !)
    
    

    Leslie's Pool in Natick has a "pool opening" seminar every spring where
    they go over all these issues.  They also have 10% off that night.
    
    

Where are you (and your pool! :-) located? 

	Dunk N Bubble in ?Concord, MA?
		and
	Seasonal Specialty Stores, Nashua NH

both offer water analysis and instructions on the
care and feeding of swimming pools (and spas).

		Helen    

    
    I'm in Milford MA. Actually, I opened my eyes (for a change) when I was
    in MacArthy's Pools place along route 9....they have 2 "help sheets"
    which describe chemicals,qty's and other routine maintenance stuff.
    Looks to be very helpful. It already stopped me making an error, I'd
    have started with the liquid shock before anything else. Not according
    to their sheet.....the mineral/stabalising solution is first.
    Not sure if this is critical, but I'll certainly take their advice any
    day. 
    + the labels on the chemical bottles give an indication of timing and what
    not to do. These help-sheets are excellent for novices like myself,
    very easy to understand and they do describe some of the terms that can
    sound like jargon, definitely worth picking up.
    
    -2 thanks for the note re: pool seminars, if I'm not too late I'll try
    to get along and learn something.
    
    Trevor

    
    Leslie's pools in Shrewsbury has a free seminar for pool maintenance.
    I was thinking about signing up.
    
    
    						Ian