Conference 7.286::home_work

    	Some the docks I have come across have the plastic barrels at
    the water end. You used to be able to buy them at the Apple/Juice
    factory in Littleton (New England Apple products???). Build a cement
    pad on shore and have "U" clamps in the pad and on the dock. And
    then just slide a pipe thru the clamps to secure the dock to the
    pad. Of course you have to figure out some way to lock the pipe
    in place.
    
    					Good Luck!

    	I have built a couple of docks. Your options are many but none
    easy. I think your particular circumstances really lend themselves
    to the floating variety of dock. You can use Aluminum pontoons,
    old water tanks, styrofoam is also available in large blocks for
    this very purpose. The plastic barrels if water tight are an excellent
    suggestion. As far as rhe attachment to the shore a concrete peir
    will work you can also use screw in anchors, they of course don't
    work in rock. 
    	For resistance to rot, decay , etc. you can use pressure treated
    lumber, or treat any type of wood with anti-fouling paint or in
    some situations you can get away with just a couple coats of a water
    reistant coating like coopanol. Youcan also fiberglass all of your
    components before assembly.
    	I hope I,ve been of some help.
    
    		Bill
    

    
    	Check first with whatever authorities are involved.  There is
    at least one New England lake/pond that prohibits ANY kind of drum
    or barrel due to the hazzardous waste fear.  They're just not going
    to check whether your drums are from apple juice companies and give
    you a permit, its NO DRUMS !  Floats, docks, rafts, whatever, NO DRUMS !

    	Reg
    
    {Well, maybe bongos, but keep them on the beach}
    

    
    And just to confuse matters some more, some lakes and ponds in Maine
    allow ONLY plastic juice drums. Seems that the styrofoam abrades
    into lots of little balls that kill waterfowl, and the steel drums
    corrode and might have had nasty stuff in them.
    
    Dick

    Re: .2
    
    I wonder whether pressure-treated or Cuprinol-treated wood in/on/under
    water contaminates the water ???
    
    dq

    re .5	You know damned well that it does, right ?
    
    	Anything that  "preserves"  by killing the bugs and funguses
    that would normally consume it is most likely poisonous to fish,
    fowl and humans, though it may not always be obvious just how we
    get it through the food chain.
    

    	I've been puting off my dock project for some time now, but
    it looks like it'll be here soon than latter. My 4 neighbors and
    I have a easment for lake access and a couple of them me included
    want to get a dock in place this year. 
    	We've decided that a floating dock is the way to go mainly because
    we're not exactly sure where the bondries for the easement so iff
    it ever comes up it can be moved easily. 
    
    	Now for a couple of questions:
    
    	I checked down at sommerville lumber and they can get floatation
    blocks in 20"x 8' size by 8" thick, 7" thick" and 10" thick. The
    8" stuff is the cheapest because it's white (what ever that means)
    and the 7 and 10 inch stuff is a lot more expensive because it's
    blue.   What's the difference (besides color and price) between
    blue and white? They folks at "somerville" said it had something
    to do with longevity.
    
    	I'm also trying to find some metal poles and brackets to use
    in achoring the the dock to the bottom. Seems there are special
    poles and clamps used for this purpose along with special feet
    to put around the poles to keep them from sinking 10 feet into the
    mud. Does any one know of a source for this kind of hardware in
    the metro west area? I've been told of a place in NH but don't want
    to drive all that way for 4 clamps and poles. I guess I could use
    	I guess I could use regular fence post and U bolts but I've
    been told that regular fence post is to thin for this purpose.?
    
    			Thanks...
    
    
    	...Dave 
    

re: white and blue

Assuming these flotation blocks are styrofoam, and assuming they're anything 
like the sheet styrofoam insulation that's available, the difference is in the 
way the foam is produced.  The white stuff is like a styrofoam cup, made up of 
tiny white beads, and it can deteriorate fairly easily, with the beads 
crumbling off.  The blue stuff is one solid block, and is much more stable.
In insulation the blue stuff is about twice the cost of the white - probably 
about the same for the flotation blocks.

Paul

    Re:  .7  
    
    Blue styrofoam is what they sell in the N.H. lakes region.  It has
    a relatively hard surface, and costs something like $60 for an 8'
    hunk, which can float 500-600 pounds.  
    
    Also available for flotation is the Follansbee Float Drum, which
    is rectangular, about 3' x 2' x 9", made of molded polyethylene,
    has a flange for bolting to the dock frame, supports 285 pounds,
    and costs $50 delivered.  The manufacturer is in W. Virginia, 
    they're distributed by J.B. & R.D. Anderson, Inc., P. O. Box 308,
    Camden, Maine, 04843, (800) 553-7040 or (207) 236-8336.  These
    are easy to attach, won't fall apart.  Brochure makes a major
    point of the fact that muskrats won't nest in them.
    
    The brochure suggests, by the way, that an average-use dock needs
    22 pounds of flotation/sq.ft. (17 for light use, 28 for heavy),
    and estimates the average dock (2 x 6 frame, 5/4 x 6 decking)
    to weigh 10-12.5 pounds/sq.ft. (pressure-treated southern yellow
    pine) or 6-9 pounds/sq.ft. (K.D. western white spruce).  
    
    Littleton (Ma.) Lumber sticks construction grade redwood in the
    above sizes, cost about 10% more than P.T., they advocate it
    becuse it doesn't splinter like P.T., but it is also MUCH
    lighter while still resisting the effects of water (and no
    risk of affecting the chemical balance of the pond water).
                                                              
    Also in the N.H. Lakes region, the prevailing hardware system
    seems to be the RDS Aluminum Dock System (RDS Foundry Associates,
    Laconia, N.H. 03246).  This will accept either 1 1/2" or 2"
    galvanized iron pipe or 4" P.T. as supports, and has a full
    range of brackets, bases, links, pivots, and ladders.  It's 
    not cheap, but does seem like it will do the job.
                                                     
    Also available is Follansbee's Wood Dock Hardware, which is
    hot-dip galvanized steel.  I have not seen this stocked in the
    lakes region.  By price and appearance, it may be more oriented
    toward heavy-duty commercial use docks.
            
    dq
    
    

    In Virginia my grandmother had 3 different piers put in.  A wharf runs
    parallel to the shore and a pier sticks out in to the water. I am not sure
    what the offical desingnation of a dock is. 
    
    Anyway, she used creosote telephone poles sunk into the bottom. The
    people who installed the poles used a pump to pump water at high
    pressure thru a flexible tube. They would stand the pole up in the
    water next to where they wanted to bury the pole, and then direct the
    output of the tube forcing water at the point where the pole is to be
    buried.  This would force a hole to form.  They would ease the pole
    into the hole and then continue to pump water into the hole right
    beside the pole this way they can continue to put the pole in further.
    They then framed the joists for the decking with rough cut oak drilling
    holes and using bolts to hold the oak and poles together.  The decking
    was also rought cut oak planking. 
    
    The bottom of her water is a black muck.  This process worked well
    in that environment but probably would not work for a rocky bottom.
    
    Here in Georgia they do not allow styrofoam on the waterways.  If
    styrofoam is used, it must be completely contained in something.
    For instance, a watertight container or wrapped in a protective
    flexible covering.
  

    

    I need to put in a new dock at some waterfront property that I have.
    The dock itself is no problem -- it will be 5' by 16', 2x8 framing,
    and 1x6 planking.  What I need help with is the supports.  I'd rather
    not put wood in the water again so I'm looking to use galvanized
    pipe with adjustable cross pieces so I can level it easily.  There
    will also have to be footings/pads for the bottom and a way to attach
    it to the log crib that I made last summer.
    
    I'm told that there are places to buy the pipes but I on't know
    where they are.
    
    Any suggestions?
    
    thanks,
    wa

    I need to put in a new dock at some waterfront property that I have.
    The dock itself is no problem -- it will be 5' by 16', 2x8 framing,
    and 1x6 planking.  What I need help with is the supports.  I'd rather
    not put wood in the water again so I'm looking to use galvanized
    pipe with adjustable cross pieces so I can level it easily.  There
    will also have to be footings/pads for the bottom and a way to attach
    it to the log crib that I made last summer.

    In .9 the author mentioned the RDS aluminum dock system in Laconia
    and Follansbee's wood dock hardware.  Does anyone have experience
    with these?  Do they also have the pipes and the pads for the lake
    bottom?  How about attaching it to shore?
    
    thanks,
    wa    

What about a floating dock built on empty 55 gallon drums? Or some type of foam
block?

    Re:  .11
    
    Floating the dock is easy.  Oil drums, manufactured rectangular
    drums, foam, all are available and have their pros and cons.
    
    The hard part is attaching it to the ground.  [This assumes that
    we're talking about a dock you walk onto from the shore, not
    a raft that you swim out to.]
    
    What you need is the ability to move vertically with little
    resistance (fluctuating water levels, waves from power boats and
    winds) while keeping horizontal play limited (you don't want it
    to swing around back to shore -- or especially to float away).
    
    You can have a floating dock that slides freely up and down on
    pipes driven into the bottom, or one that pivots from a very
    stable (big hunk of concrete) anchor on-shore.  Or -- you can
    drive the pipes and just mount the thing above the highest 
    expected water level and forget the flotation.
    
    [Voice of trial-and-error speaking....]
    
    dq

    Re: .1  

    You can get plastic 55 gallon drums from New England Apple Products
    (VeryFine Apple Juice, etc..).  They sell the drums for 5 bucks a piece.
    The main swith board number is 486-3521.  Call ahead because they don't
    always have them around.


    A minor deviation from the topic :

    I have a couple 55 gallons (plastic) drums which I purchased from
    above.  The only problem is that most of the drums don't have the
    screw caps (I think they called them bings or something like that).
   
    Any recommendations on how to seal these things ?  Or is that why I 
    got them so cheap ?   There are two holes, 1 is 1" in diameter the other
    is about 2- 2 1/2" in diameter.

    Thanks,

    Rick

    A friend of mine just built a floating dock. Sinking the pilings
    was easy! A company sold him heavy galvanized steel tube piles and
    rented him a water pump and nozzle that fits on the end of the steel
    tube. Using a floating section of dock as a work barge, he positioned
    each piling and starting pumping. This eroded the bottom under the
    pile, sinking it into position. Mother nature takes care of filling
    the hole around the pile with ooze. 

    re .14:
    
    Long shot, but maybe PVC threaded caps would fit.
    
      Mitch

    re. 14&16
    
    PVC caps will fit. 
    
    Jim

        I want to build a small free-standing floating dock for use
        by swimmers in the middle of a pond.

        I know that such a thing is really incredibly simple, but I
        was wondering if anybody has ever seen plans for such a
        float?  I would probably want to use plastic drums (e.g.,
        juice concentrate drums), and make it whatever size 4 drums
        turn out to be big enough to float.

        Any ideas of how to attach such drums to the deck?

        Bob

    The local radio station used to put on a "build your own raft and float
    down the river" race once a year.  About ten years ago some buddies of
    mine and I built a raft using rough cut oak 2x4 and 55 gallon drums.
    We used the plastic bands used in packing in warehouses to affix the
    drums to the the frame of 2x4s.  We found that the plastic bands did
    not hold up to the sharp edges of the rocks and by the end of run we
    were down to 1 drum (we started out with 6 drums).
    
    If I were building a permanent floating dock I would build a box frame
    around the barrels.  The box would have six open sides - more like a
    cage of bars - with blocking in the corners to help brace the
    drums.  I would also use metal packing bands to affix the barrels to
    the framework.  If the bands broke, rusted, were cut, or ????, then at
    least the framework would contain the barrels.  If the framework
    gave way, then the bands would contain the barrels.  
    
    At the time me and several of my friends had part-time jobs in
    warehouses and had access to the bands, clips and crimping tools.  You
    might check with facilities do see if they have the bands available for
    your use. 
    
    By the way 4 barrels will support a deck of about 8x8 with 4 or
    5 adults.  

Our family has had rafts like you describe, and we just set the raft on the
barrels, with no problems (except when a barrel leaked, filled with water and
sank.  This was before plastic barrels)  The raft was just 2x6s, with barrel
sized sections in the frame.  We'd lift the raft and set it on the barrels in
shallow water, the weight of the raft holds it in place.

-Mike

I solicit your ideas for help in designing a small dock for use on the shallow
pond on my property.

I envision one 6-foot section of removable "walkway" consisting of 2x6
pressure-treated "decking" nailed to two 4x4 rails. 

But what about the below-water structure? At the end of the dock the water is
about 3 feet deep. The bottom is very mucky. How can I create some sturdy,
semi-permanent footings? Do you think the concrete footing designed for decks
would work?

Thanks-

Brian

<I envision one 6-foot section of removable "walkway" consisting of 2x6
<pressure-treated "decking" nailed to two 4x4 rails. 
<
<But what about the below-water structure? At the end of the dock the water is
<about 3 feet deep. The bottom is very mucky. How can I create some sturdy,
<semi-permanent footings? Do you think the concrete footing designed for decks
<would work?

Brian,

    2 questions:

	1:  Will you be pulling this dock every winter so the ice doesn't
	    tear the dock apart (or doesn't freeze where you are?)

	2:  If the bottom is mucky, how far down do you go before you hit
	    solid bottom?

   I built a longer dock (3 10' x 3' sections) using 2x6 joists, 5/4x5 decking
and 4x4 posts. I used 3 joists per section (18" span) and a 2x4 'X' brace to
hold the posts square.  All wood is Pressure Treated. I found the 5/4 decking
to be lighter than 2x6. I've had the dock 5 years now and it's still solid as a
rock. 

Al

    Since I've got some dock work to do later this summer, I read this note
    and its very informative replies with interest.  Now I'm doing a little
    pre-construction planning and would appreciate knowing:
    
    1.  The dimensions of the plastic barrels sold by VeryFine (and
    others)?
    
    2.  Threaded PVC screw caps are purported to fit these barrels.  True? 
    Do these need to be sealed with something like plumber's tape?
    
    3.  How well do these barrels hold up to UV?  Are they durable enough
    to withstand a little abrasion?  (they lower the water enough in my lake 
    each year so the dock will rest on the bottom--basically gravel)
    
    Thanks very much,
    Chet                                

RE. -1:

Al, I think I'd like to take up the dock (at least the walk-on sections) in the
winter. As for the muckiness of the pond bottom, I'd say it gives about 6" to
12" before you hit "solid" bottom.

Brian

    Just a thought, but....
    
    Could you hammer a 2" steel pipe a decent distance into the pond
    bottom?  I'm thinking that if you could do this, then you could
    just drop a 4x4 support into it, using a galv steel post support:
    
                  |  |     4x4
                  |  |             
    		|||  |||
                ||____||
                ---||---
                   ||      post support
                   ||
                  |  |
                  |  |  2" steel pipe hammered into lake bed
    
    
    The post support is a square-U shape with bolt-holes for the 4x4
    and a single steel leg about 1.25" diameter x 6" long.
    
    If you need additional support for the pipe, make a concrete "donut"
    in an old barrel (a drywall compound tub would do it) to drop over
    the pipe once you've hammered it in.  
    
    Regards,
    
    Colin
    

    There are many mfg's of pipe based dock systems. Acc's range from
    straight joiners / supports to angled sjoiners, pipes and plates to
    secure pipes in mucky bottoms. Almost all docks at Winni are based on
    pipes. 
    
    My dock in Stow Ma. is pipe based, and stays in all winter. 5 years
    runng with no structural damage. I re-adjust the dock platform on the
    pipe supports each spring. I don't use bottom plates.
    
    I've seen pipe dock supplies recently at Aubuchon in Hudson Ma.

<Al, I think I'd like to take up the dock (at least the walk-on sections) in the
<winter. As for the muckiness of the pond bottom, I'd say it gives about 6" to
<12" before you hit "solid" bottom.

Brian,

      With 12" of muck before you hit bottom, you might find yourself with
a major headache trying to get the mud to "release" the posts when you pull
the dock.  Perhaps using your feet to push most of the muck away would help.
With only 12" to worry about the good news is that you just have to add 12"
to the length of the posts.  

    One guy on our lake mounted an axle and 2 tire rims to the bottom of the
deep end of his dock (kind of put his dock on wheels). He uses the Bronco to
roll his dock in and out of the water.  Once in place, he secures the dry end
of the dock with stakes for the summer. Come winter time he just pulls it back
out again with the Bronco.  Whereas the mud won't grab onto the wheels as bad
as it will to the posts, this might work for you too if you have that kind of
access (i.e. you have a 4WD and can get to the edge of the water.) I suppose
for the 6'-10' dock you were talking about, you might get by with a come-a-log
instead... 

Al