Conference 7.286::home_work

    
    In the back of the house near the back porch, there is a hole app.
    5 inches in diameter on the wall. I guest it was for an out-door
    light fixture at one time ( before I bought the house ). A few months
    ago I saw some bees flying arround the hole but did not pay much
    attention at that time. Last night, I noticed that many bees flying
    in and out of that hole. They must have built a home inside the
    wall and using the hole as entrance. It still don't border me. But
    I do have 2 kids who plays at the porch all the time. I am afraid
    that they may get stunt by the bees ( althout it has not happened
    yet ). Now, how can I get rid of them ?
    
    I know I can cover the hole up with something. But will the bees
    find a way inside the wall to go somewhere else. and what happen
    if that ' somewhere else ' is inside the house. A little scary.
    
    Is there some chemical that I can spray at the hole to either drive
    them away or to kill them if I had to ?
    
    I will mount a light fixture ( the wire still there ) there once I
    clear up the bees.
     

    See note 1173, especially 1173.4 and beyond.
    
    Elaine

    A friend of mine discovered bees when mowing her back yard.  They
    had built a hive on the fence.  She was going to kill them using
    some spay that could be shot from 12 feet away or so.  But before
    she did it, someone recommended contacting the county extension
    services.  She did, they put her in touch with a beekeeper, he came
    out free of charge, captured the queen bee and took her away.  Most
    of the worker bees followed her.  The remaining bees disappeared
    within a day or two.
    
    In order to get rid of them, you do have to get rid of the queen.
                        
    Rob

    Oh, yes.   Please don't kill them.   Find a bee keeper.  If you
    don't know one, check with a nearby apple orchard - they no doubt
    have beehives placed in the orchard by a beekeeper and can put you
    in touch with one.   If you can't find an apple orchard, try one
    of the roadside stands - they might have done the same thing...

    P.S.   The beekeeper will probably "smoke" them out.

    Having a beekeeper remove them is an excellent idea, but, the queen
    bee must be accessible.  It would be very difficult to get at the
    queen if the nest is inside a wall.
    
    By all means, check with a beekeeper first.

    
    	I've been rebuilding an old stone retaining wall and have been
    in a two week running battle with angry ground hornets.  I tried
    spraying them twice.  Every time I worked near the nest I'd get
    stung.  After getting stung 12 times in three days I took drastic
    action.  I poured a can of charcoal lighter fluid over the rock
    and set the suckers on fire.  I have never seen so many hornets
    at once.  Fortunately not many of them made it through the flames.
    After the flames died down I filled the hole with cement!  Drastic
    action but it worked.
    
    					Revenge is sweet
    					=Ralph=

    if you use the Raid from 12 feet away, you are supposed to pick
    a cool night or late morning, so the guys are sluggish.  I recently
    had to knock off a nest of yellowjackets (i think).  I had to wait
    until the lull between the warm spells.  During hot, humid weather,
    they don't really sleep, and are out of the nest at the least
    provocation.  When it's cool and they are sluggish, the closest
    one to the hole doesn't even get out of the nest.
    
    Good luck.  Be careful out there.
    
    Elaine

    Yesterday morning I called city hall trying to get a list of
    bee-keepers name in my area. They don't know anyone. Well I tried.
    
    In the afternoon, I bought a can of liquid SEVIN. Arround 6:00 PM
    ( still hot ), I mixed some SEVIN with water and sprayed directly
    on the bees that were flying arround the hole. Nothing happened,
    bees still flying. So I added more SEVIN and sprayed again. This
    time some were killed on contact and some flew away and didn't come
    back. I then sprayed arround and into the hole and went out for
    dinner. Do you think this would kill the bees inside the wall ?
    I don't think spraying arround ( even into the hole ) would have
    the liquid directly contacting the bees. Would it need direct contact
    to kill them ?
    
    	

    Watch out for ants !!
    
    I had a nest of yellow jackets in the upper part of a bow window
    in the front of the house.  After talking to county aggy agents
    and getting in touch with beekeepers I learned that the bees or
    yellowjackets must leave the nest to deficate otherwise they die
    of dysentary.  Just seal up the hole.  As long as they don't have
    any egress INTO the house you're all set.  However, with some moisture
    and dead bee bodies and a bee nest material to act as a sponge ....
    I just replaced the window this is maybe 4 years after the bee episode
    and I've never seen so many ants in one place in my life.  I hope
    to hell I got em all.
    
    I was originally worried that they were bees and there was a honeycomb
    in the wall.  Watch for ants.

    Sounds like I have a "project" to do in the winter/fall : to remove
    some shingles and to clear the dead-bee-bodies before the ants get
    there.

    	This past weekend I discovered a band of bees furiously building
    a nest above my bay window area. I hoped that it was only a few
    days old as I was working in that area a couple of days earlier
    and didn't notice them. I took the mass chemical root, being one
    that hates bee stings more than my little spraying would hurt the
    environment. We waited until just before dark and my father (who
    was visiting for the weekend) and I attaked with two cans of "Shoo-fly"
    hornet and be spray. This stuff shoots 25 feet and will knock those
    suckers down on contact. Well, this was Saturday night and as of
    monday morning no sign of any more bees. One problem though, the
    spray left a film on the windows which now needs to be cleaned.
    
    	An interesting aside: As I had mentioned my father was up for
    the weekend and he was telling me that just that week they had a
    colony of bees removed from his church's belfry. They called a
    beekeeper in to the job,as the colony was saome where in the wall
    and rater large. When they opened up the wall they found out just
    how large. The honey comb was 4 feet by 8 feet by 6 inches thick.
    the colony numberd 140,000 bees. Over 350 pounds of honey was removed.
    The colony had been there for over 6 years. The beekeeper simply
    located and removed the queen from the nest and placed her in a
    bucket the rest followed her. 
    	Oh, BTW beekeepers do not do this for the bees alone. Cost for
    this operation was $875.
    	Another interesting thing was something the beekeeper told my
    father; If you know of a beehive on your property and do nothing
    to protect others from it. If the bees "sworm" and injure someone
    you could be held liable.
    
    				happy hunting...
    						...Dave
    

    My neighbors just discovered a large hornets or wasps nests in
    the center of a 6 foot high white pine tree.  The nest is one of
    those things that look like consecutive layers of a paper like
    material.  Any suggestions on how to get rid of it?  The tree
    is located in the middle of a very large field and it can't just
    be knocked off (it's pretty well entwined within the branches of
    the tree).
    
    -al

    
    	LARS rocket at 100 yards.
    	
    	-Steve-
    

    Got the rockets but wouldn't that cause the tree to burn up.
    My neighbors paid $100 bucks for the tree at Weston Nurseries
    and I'm sure they wouldn't want to see it go up in a ball of flames.
    
    -al

If it's out in the middle of a field and high up in a tree, why do 
anything about it?  
					>>>==>PStJTT

    	re .16  6 feet high is not very high and if you want to be able
    to use the field for outdoor activites the nest could cause trouble.
    
    	The suggestion of using LARS rockets was well intended but a
    little over kill. You might be able to dirupt the nest enough with
    a couple of arrows. Do you know any one who's a good shot. You can't
    just spray the nest as you might end up killing the tree if it's
    as young as you indicate. A powerfull stream of water might do the
    trick but I wouldn't chance standing that close.
    	If your lucky you might have what happened to a nest my father
    had in a lilac bush. One night a racoon decided to find out what
    was inside this strange looking thing and ripped it apart.
    
    	If all else fails try an expert but it might cost more than
    the $100 for the tree in which case I'd use the LARS, Its a lot
    more fun.
    
    				...Dave
    

    re: .18
    
    You don't have to gas it, just be sure the bag has an airtight seal.
    bring it into a warm place (downstairs by the wood stove) and watch
    them come out for air for a week or so.  When no more come out,
    you can take the bag off, throw the bees away and shellac the nest
    for a beautiful home decoration.
    
    again, for the brave and daring.
    
    :-)
    

    Wait until a cool night or early morning and just torch the nest.
    They (the nest and inhabitants) burn very quickly.  A little fire
    for such a short period shouldn't hurt the tree.  Forget the bag!
    One false move and those suckers will be on you like flies on...
    
    fresh paint.
    
    Phil

    The nest is not hanging from a branch so it can't be wrapped.
    
    Just imagine a 6 foot shrub with lotsa little branches and the nest
    is enclosing these branches.
    
    A fire would definitely damage the tree.
    
    Anyone know if it's wasps or hornets that make these paper nests?
    What's the difference between a hornet and a wasp?
    
    -al

    Fire is still the quickest, non-chemical way to do it.  The nest
    disintegrates when the fire gets close.  Have a hose ready JIC.
    The bark should protect it.

     Wasps build paper nests. To work them cold you will have to wait
    until the temp drops below 50 degrees. Anything higher than that
    and they will still be very mobile in fact they are somewhat
    more agressive when they are cold.
    
    If you work in the dark you are better off than anyother time.
    I have removed wasps from houses before and have had good luck
    by making a torch(oil soaked rags on a big stick) and lighting it
    several feet away from the nest. The wasps will fly toward the light
    and be burned. You work from the dark side and hit them with the
    LARS or chemicals.
    
    
    re.12
    I once had a neighbor try to sue me for doctors fees and lost time
    after being stung. I had several hives in my yard. The judge asked
    him if he knew it was MY bee that stung him. He dident know for
    sure only that I kept bees and it looked like a bee. CASE DISMISSED.
    Very difficult to prove. Sounds like this keeper was very bussiness
    minded and wanted to "scare up" some more work.
    If they are bees do this I know it will work(but only on bees)
    mix 10 parts honey with 1 part chloradane and 2 parts water.
    Place the mixture in a bowl/can with a small block of wood floating
    in it in a HIGH safe place near the nest. The bees will be drawn
    to the scent of the honey and eat their death mix. Most of them
    will die at the table but others will take back to the nest and
    feed the other bees killing the rest. 
    This method destroyed 4 of my hives. My neighbor gets the credit
    for the idea(same as above).
    
    -j
    

    I once had a wasp next in the wheel well of a car I was taking apart.
    They didn't like it when I was hammering away at rusted bolts and
    kept stinging me (at the time I didn't know the next was less then
    a foot away).  When I say the nest it was almost the size of a basket
    ball.  I wanted to get rid of them fast so I took an M80 firecracker
    and taped it on the end of a fire place poker.  I then lit the fuse,
    jammed the poker in the nest and ran like HELL.  Needless to say
    there wasn't anything left of the nest and I felt it was a lot safer
    than trying to burn it.
    
    Steve
    

     Re: .24
>    They didn't like it when I was hammering away at rusted bolts and
>    ...
>    I wanted to get rid of them fast so I took an M80 firecracker

     So are you recommending M80's for rusted bolts now?

     RE: .24
    
>        I then lit the fuse, jammed the poker in the nest and ran like
>    HELL.  Needless to say there wasn't anything left of the nest and I
>    felt it was a lot safer than trying to burn it.

     DEFINITELY a matter of opinion!!!  (and how fast you can run and
                                         they can fly)

    Wasps and hornets are very similar creatures.  Both build paper
    nests.  Some wasps are solitary and thus build very small nests.
    Most (all?) hornets are social.  The big paper balls are usually
    hornet nests -- common paper wasp nests are open.
    
    Then there are yellow jackets, which usually nest in the ground
    (they love old chipmunk holes), and are thus easily disposed of
    (one cup of gasoline down the hole, followed by a match).
    
    In general, all such nests are best destroyed at night after the
    little critters are asleep and in their nest, otherwise you will
    have distraught homeless critters flying about looking for their
    former abode.
    
    			George

    Sorry I forgot to sign 
    
    Thanks in advance
    
    Chris Peters
    NPOVAX::PETERS
    DTN: 223-1134

    
    
    	I am surprised that a new house didn't have any screens on the
    soffet vents ! Your ridge vent should have a screen as they come
    with it. I would screen up both right now and let the winter cold
    kill the rest or you can bomb the atic. A bomb is a thing you light
    and it smokes like crazy with bug killer.
    
    	-Steve-
    

    I've got 'em too, and I don't have the faintest idea where they
    are coming from.  Flies appear (by the dozens!) on the skylights
    in my living room; I vacuum them up (a great way to get rid of them
    without using poisons or squashing fly guts all over everything), 
    and a couple hours later, or next day, there are dozens more again.
    I'm still finishing off the ceiling - I still have to do the trim
    around the skylights - and I hope when that's done I will have blocked
    off however it is they are getting in.  
    I guess about all you (and I) can do is keep blocking up holes until
    we find the right ones.

    As I understand it, there is a type of fly that likes to hide in
    the insulation. They are atracted to it to keep warm(I guess).
    When it does get warmer, sunny days, these little buggers get 
    active.
    I had them in my house when I bought it (new construction). The
    house was built in the fall and the flies must have gotten ion during
    construction.
    
    Also, on a cold but sunny day, these flies can be seen soaking in
    the sun on the sidding on my house, my neighbors house. I didn't
    check the rest of the neighborhood. Both houses are white, maybe
    this has something to do with it.
    
    I believe these flies were discussed elsewhere in this file
    

    Just before the first winter in my house, I climbed up in the attic
    to pull the insulation back away from the soffits to improve the
    air flow through the attic.  This was recommended by the inspector
    when we bought the house.  Anyway, as I pulled back one section,
    a LARGE number of flies took flight.  We had been seeing these
    fairly frequently in the upstairs bedrooms.  I called Waltham Chemical
    (it was time for their fall visit anyway), who came out, sprayed
    (maybe they dusted - can't remember) and had no more problems.
    
    They called them "cluster" flies, which seemed very appropriate.
    The ball that they formed must've been 4 inches thick.

    
    	I may have the answer on how the flies are getting in. I was
    	painting the trim on my house in the fall and noticed that
    	flies were hiding or on their way up to the attic through
    	the ridges in my T-111 siding. They may have been entering
    	the attic through the overlap. Seems to me that this area
    	should be sealed (maybe it is). All I know is that I've seen
    	the flies in the ridges. Maybe they stay there all season?
    
    john//

    All you homeowners who think you have a fly problem should come
    visit us here in LKG (King Street, Littleton).  We've been here
    in this new building now for two years, and we've still got a fly
    problem!  They've fogged the entire 100,000 sq. ft. building on
    several occasions, and the suckers still keep coming back.  They
    can usually be found belly up along the window sills (facilities
    has a little Dustbuster cordless vac that they use to clean off
    the sills), but every once in a while, you'll find one spinning
    on its back in your office, trying to right itself.
    
    Jim

Re .-1

How about trying the solution we have here in MRO2.

I have a terrarium on the windowsill. It's filled with Venus's Fly Traps,
pitcher plants, sundews etc., all of which are carnivorous, or at least
insectivorous. Actually, it's not that THEY do so well at attracting and
catching flies, it's that, in order to get a good show (or to satisfy some
fiendishly perverse sense of the macabre), everyone in the office looks for 
and catches "bugs" to feed to the plants. Works well, no "bugs" in our software.

Dave    >;^)

    
    I am having a problem with carpenter bees. Apparently they have
    gone under the side moulding that is along the roof line and behind
    the aluminum siding and are eating at the plywood. Every now and
    then I see one either comming out or going in. When I see them I
    try shooting them with bee killer which seems effective. The problem
    is that I can't seem to get them all. After I shoot one, I'll go
    over where they had gone in and I can hear a slight grinding/crunching
    sound which means there is still another in there working on my
    house. 
    
    	Without tearing appart my house I would like to know an effective
    way to get rid of these little pests once and for all. Any suggestions
    would be helpful.
    
    		Thanks,
    			Dan
    

    I got'm too!!! First time I've ever seen anything like it
    
    Where do you live? I'm in Acton
    
    Its kinda like a bad horror movie, I herd this crunching and looked
    up and there it was the size of a bumble bee making a hole about
    1/2 " dia. Killed that sucker! 
    Only problem he has friends --- and they are making a 1/2 x 3 slot
    in the screen porch.
    
    I have a product called ortho-klor (a replacement product for
    clordane) that in a very strong concentration (2 coats brushed
    on at 3TBS/QT !) is suposed to discourage them. 
    
    I have vedgies so I dont want to kill off all the bees BUT if the
    problem persists I will probably try the Clordane (wornder if KLOR
    works) and honey bait mentioned elsewhere.... Sure would make me
    feel guilty but this shi* has to stop!
    
    Seven
    Diaznon
    Clordane
    
    Are all very toxic to Bees, you might try them. Clordane is banned
    in most (perhaps all northern) states.
    
                Any one else have these little devils?
    
                                  Tom
    
    I'm going to post this in garden too
    
    
    
                                                
  

RE -1

Correct me if I'm wrong, but 'wasps,' 'hornets' and 'yellowjackets' are
not 'honeybees,' are they?

If you nuke some wood-boring wasp that's chewing on your house, it won't
phase the honey bees who service your garden.  

Brian

    
    I live in Shrewsbury N.J. I have owned this house for 2 yrs and
    just noticed the bees last year. It seems as though there are more
    and more of them.
    
    	Dan
    

    Re .2
    
    Is it possible that they are not Bees?  I dont know how to tell
    I guess the only thing I've seen them do in bore wood.
    
    Re .3
    
    We really need to find out about the life cycle of these things..
    
                                Tom

Correct me if I'm wrong, but 'wasps,' 'hornets' and 'yellowjackets' are
not 'honeybees,' are they?

>>>Honeybees are definately a separate species of bees and quite 
distinguishable from other bees. They have tan and black stripes on the 
back of their body, and spend most of their time in flowers gathering 
pollen and nectar, not bothering people. Yellow jackets are much more 
yellow, larger, and spend lots of time at your picnic.....bumble bees are 
*HUGE* compared to others and are yellow and black and are generally 
peaceful and keep to themselves. Honeybees have a one-time ssting capacity, 
and therefore can literally be brushed off because they know they will die 
once they decide you deserve a sting. Wasps and yellow jackets can hit 
repeatedly. Wasps are a bunch of different insects and vary in size, etc. 
Best known are the paper wasps but also the whitefaced wasps, (Vicious, 
just ask to see the scars sometime!) and other ground dwelling wasps. There 
is a variety of wood wasps but they need rotted wood to start with.

If you nuke some wood-boring wasp that's chewing on your house, it won't
phase the honey bees who service your garden.  

>>>Unfortunately, if you nuke everything in sight you may get the honeybees 
as well, but if you selectively nuke the area around the entrance hole, you 
won't do much harm to honeybees. Contact your local extension service if 
you are unsure what to use. Also, local garden centers will be of help to 
select the proper tactical nuclear spray bomb. I believe there is also a 
bee keepers notesfile you can ask questions.

>>>One last comment, are you sure they are some form of bees/wasps ? I have 
never heard of carpenter bees, and I grew up around three hives of bees and 
while  not an expert, I know they are not destructive to wood such as you 
describe. How about carpenter ants? They fly, are very large (1/2-3/4") and 
can start a fresh hole in new wood just to have something to chew on, and 
are hard to kill. (30 caliber seems adequate 8^}  ) 

    	Vic H.

	Sort of on the subject...

	I live in Fitchburg, MA and I've never seen so many wasps and yellow
	jackets! I haven't found any eating the house yet, but then, I haven't
	exactly been looking.

	This weekend, I destroyed 3 small (one was a single bedroom) wasp
	nests attached to or right near the house. The single bedroom was back
	the next day.

	What's going on?

Larry

There are such things as carpenter bees.  They resemble bumble bees in 
that they are huge and fuzzy.  They bore a half-inch diameter hole in 
wood and lay eggs.  Then they spend the Summer hovering outside the hole 
protecting it. (They sure know how to have a good time...)  A friend of 
mine in Newton MA had them and called an exterminator.  One application 
of whatever the exterminators use took care of the problem.  I don't 
know what makes a particular house attractive to the bees, but it seems 
like the bees come in waves.  When they get to a populated area, they 
pick houses because they tend to be high off the ground (to an insect 
that will spend a summer hovering outside a hole, security must be 
important.)  Next year or the year after they'll probably have migrated 
out of your area. But they'll be baaaaaack....

					>>>==>PStJTT

Karen,

As long as they stay up there and you don't need to go up I wouldn't 
worry about it. If on the other hand you use the attic for storage and 
are up there regularly, or you plan on doing work up there (starting to 
get hot though), or (like me) have an unscreened whole-house fan, I'd 
go after em with my trusty-always-by-my-side hornet/wasp spray killer.

I haven't seen a bomb specifically designed for hornets or wasps but I 
wouldn't be surprised if they exist.

Chuck

While were at it....I think I have a yellow-jacket nest in my attic, or
somewhere around my house, as I've been finding a lot of single
yellowjackets (4-5/week) in various places.  Mostly in the room adjoining
the garage (downstairs).  I also see a few in the garage. However, I have
had one or 2 come DOWN the attic fan vent while the fan was running. I'm
not sure if I should care (the frequency seems to decrease with time), all
I've done so far is put a no-pest strip in the attic - which seemed safe
as no one goes up there, and the attic fan blows INTO the attic from below.
Anyway - any ideas on how to find the nest, and what to do with it when I
get there? 

thanx/j

Couldn't you wait till winter when they hibernate, and get rid of them then??

Brad.

              <<< PICA::DISK$ADMIN:[NOTES$LIBRARY]GARDEN.NOTE;1 >>>
                            -< **  Gardening  **   >-
================================================================================
Note 795.1                       Carpenter Bees!                          1 of 1
ESPN::KELLIHER "Ed Kelliher"                         20 lines   1-JUN-1988 11:11
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    
    (You may wish to cross-post this in the other notes file.)
    
    The Ortho Problem Solver on Carpenter Bees (pg. 800)
    
    "These insects do not usually cause serious damage; however, continued
    burrowing and gallery formation year after year will eventually
    weaken wood structures.  These insects burrow into the wood to make
    their nests.  The female bees partition their galleries into small
    cells in which the carpenter bee larvae mature.  When bee nests
    are approached, the males hover around the head of the intruder.
    Although they are frightening because of their loud buzzing and
    large size, the male bees do *not* sting [my emphasis] , and the
    females sting only when handled."
    
         Obviously, Ortho-klor was cited as the fix.  Painting the wood
    was also mentioned as a deterrent.
    
    Ed
    
    .

RE. -1

Jeff, same deal here.  I keep finding wasps (one at a time) in a bedroom over
the garage.  I've got screens on all the windows/doors, and can't figure
out how the wasps are getting in.  My exhaust fans vent outside and have
(functioning, I believe) one-way flaps.

What's the deal?

Brian

    Finding the nest is the most difficult problem. Watch from the outside
    to see where they are coming in. Wasps etc can build nests between
    studs within a wall which are quite large! Never close off their
    exit hole until the nest is destroyed because they can chew through
    sheetrock in quick order and you'll have a swarm inside. If you
    have an indoor nest that you don't want to coat with poisons, I've
    heard that you can freeze the nest with a CO2 extinguisher, which
    makes the wasps immobile until it thaws, which is usually enough
    time to remove the nest. The best time to spray the nest is at night,
    when its occupants are home. Good luck and be CAREFUL!!!
    
    Eric

One cheap and easy way to get rid of a Y J nest (if you can find it) 
that I think I learned from elsewhere in this file:

Hang a no-pest strip outside the access - they will track the 
insectiside (sp?)  into the nest and eventually die.

Do it when they're asleep (@ night or early AM)

        I was told by an old timer (many years ago) that a
        quick and easy way to get rid of unwanted flying things
        in attics and crawl spaces was to toss around a box
        of naptha balls (moth balls!) in the place.
        
        This seemed worth a try at the time, since I didn't
        know where they were nesting and there was no such
        thing as NOTES...
        
        IT WORKED!  In fact the whole house was bug free that
        year.  (No, I couldn't smell the stuff in the house.)
        
        

When we moved into our house, we had a yellowjacket nest about the
size of two footballs (American football) attached to the sill atop the
foundation. All day long they came and went via a small hole next to
an outside faucet. I found the nest by foolishly following the sound
of the loud buzz coming from above a drop ceiling. I say foolish 
because I stuck my head up above the ceiling panel and came about 18" 
from the nest. Because of the tight space, there was no way at the
nest without removing panelling, insulation and studs from the inside
or siding and sheathing from the outside. 

We got rid of them by plugging their preferred entrance hole with
caulk about dusk and then setting off 4 aerosol bombs of wasp/hornet
killer for the inside and leaving the house until the next day. There 
were hundreds of bodies on the basement floor. It was a couple of days 
until all the buzzing ceased. We vacuumed up the dead and spent the 
next few days wiping the oily residue off the walls in the basement 
room.

If you have the general location of the nest, a couple of those bombs 
would probably do the trick, if the nest is "in" the house. Don't set 
them near walls or the ceiling, and be sure to put them on newspaper.

John H.

    
    	Thanks for the comments so far..... I think this weekend I will
    go to the garden shop and ask about the ortho-klor and any other
    reccomendations they may have.
    
    	Dan
    

    re. last few
    Be warned that honey bees donot really hibernate they only slow
    down at temps below 50 degrees but they can still sting if your
    attic is above 50 be assured they will be capible of both flight
    and sting. In warm weather climates bees will continue to collect
    nectar and pollen year around and on warm days in cool locations.
    A bug bomb placed in the attic should do the job.
    I would also like to suggest that if they are honey bees that you
    might be able to find a beekeeper willing to remove the hive.
    Check BEES::BEES or your local humane society which should have
    a list of keepers looking for bees.
    
    -j(former beekeeper)
    
    

Memorial Day in Lancaster, right? Color guard going to fire off an 
x-gun salute, right? Fire blanks up into the air, right? Right into 
that big tree 15 feet away, right? 

Aggravate about 100,000,000 hornets, right? 

An enormous cloud of them drifted over the assembled girl scouts, 
school bands, ancient and honorable veterans, and guests. People stood 
their agape and waited for something bad to happen, but they drifted 
away with the bottom of the cloud just above head-high. It would have 
been positively Hitchcockian if they had been come about two feet 
lower.

John H.

In my attic, at one corner of the house, is a LARGE yellow jacket
nest.  Observing it from the inside, it appears to be about 8" on a
side.  However, when I stand in the bedroom under it, I can hear
scratching-like sounds in the wall, all the time, so it must run down
into the wall.  It has one access hole (about 16' up on the outside),
and watching by binocular, I can see busy YJ traffic during the day.
About 3 mo. ago, we were finding a few in the house daily, and
observed 1 or 2 coming down from the attic. We hung a no-pest strip in
the attic, this stopped the daily sighting of YJs in the house, and we
thought that was the end of it, until the "wall-sounds" tipped me off
last night.  My two obvious questions are: 

1) the harm of leaving it alone (will they damage the house, etc) 

2) How to eradicate?

I should mention that we found a similar nest at the other end of the
house (under the screened-in porch) in early spring, which I
(foolishly) paid $100 to have "removed",  guess they just moved up to
a better neighborhood.....any idea will be very appreciated. 

    If they are indeed yellow jackets you could just intomb them in the
    wall and starve them to death they shouldent cause a smell unless
    the nest is aq real big one. They do chew wood so they could start
    eating away at the framing. To get everything out of the wall is
    going to be tough and expensive if you have to tear away the siding.
    The scraching sounds like they are chewing on something.
    
    I'd suggest you look in BEES::BEES and see if their is a beekeeper
    in your area that has a veil and gloves that could be borrowed
    and do the job yourself. Standard wasp & bee spray applied thru
    their entrance should kill them. BTW-this is best done in late morning
    when most are out for the day. As soon as you have sprayed plug
    the hole with steel wool and wait. Before doing this be sure all
    possible entrances to inside the house have been plugged or that
    where they will go and they're going to be PO'd but then so will
    the YJ's out in the field when they return to find their entrance
    plugged. After about a week you can plug the hold with caulk,ect.
    
    Before you do any of this be 100% sure they are not bees! Bees have
    honey and wax both of which will melt in time if the bees are not
    there and then you have a real mess running down the side of your
    house it will also start to smell inside.
    
    If you dont like the idea of leaving them there dead inside your
    wall and opening the space up is easy.....(did I say easy?)
    Open the space while wearing veil and gloves and use a shop vac
    and just vacume the nest,YJ's and everything else up.
    I've done both methods before with equal success.
    
    Good luck.-j
    

    You can wait until they freeze up this winter...assuming the wall
    cavity gets cold enough to freeze.

>    In my attic, at one corner of the house, is a LARGE yellow jacket nest.
>    Observing it from the inside, it appears to be about 8" on a side.
>    However, when I stand in the bedroom under it, I can hear
>    scratching-like sounds in the wall, all the time, so it must run down
>    into the wall....... 
                         
>    ......We hung a no-pest strip in the attic, this stopped the daily
>    sighting of YJs in the house, and we thought that was the end of it,
>    until the "wall-sounds" tipped me off last night. 
 
    Make sure that you don't have a different problem. The successful
    elimination of yellow jacket sightings probably means that you got
    rid of them. The 'scratching-like sounds in the wall' sounds very
    much like a dreaded invasion of killer carpenter ants.

Thanks for the comments so far...
RE: -.3: since most of the nest is in my attic, I though ti should 
avoid closing the hole as they would just repopulate my attic
RE: -.1: it could be, but there is a definitely a large YJ nest there, 
I can't rule out ants below them

I hung a no-pest strip (without the box) outside the nest entrance 
yesterday - seems to have quieted things down (very little activity, 
no more scratching)...great, now what?

    It may be coincidental to your hanging a no-pest strip.  They may
    have just moved on.  I saw some high activity by my fireplace and
    said "Oh no. Not again."  I could hear the activity with my ear
    close to the wall; real good with a glass.  It wasn't a scratching
    sound though.  It was more like buzz buzz.   This was last summer
    some time.  When we tore apart the wall to do some other renovating,
    we found a rather large nest.
    
    But, they only stayed overnight!  They may have - must have - been
    there for a while before we noticed them or they are awfully fast
    nest builders.  Anyway it's quite possible that they'll just up
    and leave all of a sudden.
    
    How long have they been there now ??  I think it was around reply
    10 or so.  I had a similar episode that led to a whole mess of
    carpenter ants.  The ants just love these yellow jackets.

    
    	> ...great, now what?
    
    	Try sealing the house as best you can.  Try to find out where
    	their getting entrance into the house and use silicone or that
    	that expanding insulation goop in the can, to fill the voids.
    	I had a terrible ant invasion earlier this summer and found
    	that ants and yellow jackets were entering by the sides of the
    	house where the eaves end.  I had 3/4 inch gaps there, but
    	sealed them with the above mentioned products and it ended the
    	problem.  If you want to get rid of the bees that are already
    	in the attic after you seal all the nooks and crannies, put
    	an open bottle of "veryfine" lemonade up in the attic and 
    	leave it there for a weak or so.  The yellow jackets love it.
    	They fly into the bottle get stuck, and drown.  It must be
    	the sugar that attracts them.
    

    A word of warning though, DON'T SEAL UP THEIR EXIT UNTIL YOU DESTROY
    THE NEST!!!!!! Wasps, bees, etc , if trapped, will find another
    way out, often INTO your house. It won't take them long to go through
    sheet rock and then you have a swarm INSIDE. A neighbor closed up
    the hole on the outside, and in short order had a house full of
    yellow jackets.
          
    Eric

    Jeff cross-posted his question in the GARDENING conference.  I
    answered him there, and have cross-posted my response here:
    
             <<< PICA::DISK$ADMIN:[NOTES$LIBRARY]GARDEN.NOTE;1 >>>
                            -< **  Gardening  **   >-
================================================================================
Note 563.9               Yellow Jackets and My Pear Tree                  9 of 9
MARX::GIBEAU "Network partner exited, stage left"    97 lines  24-AUG-1988 13:42
                         -< Jeff!  PLEASE READ THIS! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Jeff!  I can't believe the problem you just described.  My
    husband and I went through a VERY similar situation just 2 
    weeks ago.  Please take my advice and CALL AN EXTERMINATOR!  
    Here's why:
    
    We live in a gambrel cape with two dormers (dog houses, if you
    will) in the front.  I noticed YJs buzzing around above the dormer 
    window, disappearing under the dormer roof.  I basically just said, 
    'oh well, more bees.'  They liked our dormers last year, but only 
    the outside.  We knocked down a basketball-sized nest last year and 
    noticed the beginnings of new nests outside the dormers this year.
    The jet sprayer on the garden hose put an end to those!
    
    Well, one morning, lying in bed, I began hearing a VERY curious
    scratching noise (like the one you described).  Our bathroom abuts 
    the master bedroom.  My husband was in the shower, and the air 
    conditioner and ceiling fan were running in the bedroom. In other 
    words, the room wasn't at all quiet.  Yet I could *still* hear this
    strange noise. 
    
    I got up to investigate. I isolated the noise to the bedroom ceiling, 
    right inside the dormer. (We have two closets along the outside wall, 
    with a little alcove between them.  The dormer on the outside is the 
    alcove on the inside.)  There was a discolored spot on the ceiling,
    like a water spot, roughly 4" in diameter.  All I could think of was, 
    "Something's chewing through the ceiling!"
    
    My husband tapped on the ceiling, around the spot.  The ceiling
    "sounded" normal.  But when he tapped on the center of the spot,
    the plaster sounded precariously thin.  I got really nervous and 
    taped and tacked a RAID-soaked plastic Cool-Whip cover over the 
    spot, fearful that something would eat through the ceiling while 
    we were at work.
    
    When I came home that night, the noise was much louder.  I couldn't
    bring myself to sleep in there that night!  I had visions of bees
    swarming in the bedroom while we were sleeping!
    
    I called an exterminator the following morning (a Friday).  He
    came out on Saturday afternoon.  He sprayed some really nasty
    stuff into the exterior opening through which the YJs were coming
    in.  He unscrewed a plant hook that was hanging on the ceiling,
    and injected more "stuff" into the dormer.  My husband and I
    were watching him from the driveway.  (I wanted to keep track
    of how many of the repelled YJs were coming into the house through 
    the open window -- so I could find them later!)
    
    The exterminator said he'd never known YJs to chew wallboard before.
    He was a little skeptical.  A friend suggested that maybe the noise
    we were hearing wasn't chewing, but the sound of MANY bees buzzing, 
    muffled by the thickness of the ceiling.
    
    The exterminator yelled down to us in the driveway.  "Yeah, they
    were chewing.  I just tapped on the ceiling and made a huge hole!"
    We went upstairs to help him.  (He was standing there, holding the
    bottom of an aerosol can over the hole).  There were thin pieces
    of plaster everywhere...
    
    The wallboard that the builder used to make the ceiling was at
    least 1/2" thick.  The YJs had eaten through 1/2" of wallboard.
    The *only* thing holding them back from coming into the bedroom
    was the blown-on textured ceiling plaster.  I have a small piece
    of the "remains" of the ceiling in my office.  It measures less
    than 1/16" thick.
    
    None of the books on yellow jackets say anything about them
    eating plaster.  The guy who took my call on Friday morning
    kept telling me, "Bees don't chew lady... maybe you have a
    mouse up there..."  But trust me, they do!  Call an exterminator.
    
    If you're anywhere near Leominster, I can recommend Central
    New England Chemical Company, Neil Haddad in particular.  The
    treatment cost $150.00.  When it was first quoted to me, I
    thought it was excessive.  But he not only soaked the nest
    and the entrance to the nest, but he went around the entire
    perimeter of our house, did the shingles, shutters, etc., and
    warranted it through 1988.
    
    When he was leaving, I would have *gladly* written him a check
    for TWICE the original amount, just because I was so relieved.
    
    I now have a large hole in my ceiling, covered with my Cool 
    Whip cover, secured with glass strapping tape and thumb tacks.
    He said we'd be able to take it down in 2 days and repair/replace
    the ceiling.  Well, it's been over 2 weeks and I can't bear the
    thought of going near it!  I *know* they're all dead, but I don't
    think I want to know just how big the nest *really* as...
    
    Sorry this got so wordy, but my skin's still crawling.  GET AN
    EXTERMINATOR!
    
    Feel free to contact me outside of notes, if you'd like:
    DTN 276-8321, node address above...
    
    /donna
           
    

    One more thing about my experience --

    When the exterminator accidentally broke through the ceiling, he
    was confronted with a solid mass of yellow jackets, babies and
    adults. He said there must have been an enormous nest up there,
    judging by the number of critters.
        
    The plastic cover fastened to my ceiling is covered with dead
    yellow jackets...

    We've pretty much determined that to repair the ceiling will
    actually require cutting out the whole piece and replacing it.
    I plan on being out of town when this is done!

Donna - I'm sorry you had such a bad experience, and appreciate the 
feedback.  Where I am (DIYers, take note) is that the no-pest strip 
seemed to be VERY effective, there has been no noise or activity for 
days.  Next week, an exterminator friend is coming to remove the nest
(no, I don't plan to watch too closely).

regards/j

The final outcome...

the exterminator (Jim Jiroux -owner of CMX in Shrewsbury, 842-0867,
his father runs Hallmark Home Inspection) came out and trashed the
nest, which on a scale of small to humengous, he termed as 'huge'. 
However, he noticed that the nest was unusually vacant.  So, the moral
is - the no-pest strip is a good idea to slow things down until the
exterminator shows up. 

		thanks for all your support.

(PS _ Jim is expanding his business to the framingham/marlboro area)

    With the on-set of warm weather, we have started to get wasps
    and yellow jackets coming into the house.  I believe they are
    entering or nesting in the attic and then finding their way
    into the living quarters through the venting holes in our recessed
    ceiling lighting.
    
    Any ideas on "how to" ......
    
    o find the exterior entry source
    o how to "fumigate" the attic
    o "screen" the lighting fixtures  (if I put duct-tape over these
      bretahing slots, am I risking over-heating the fixture......FIRE???)
    
    I spoke with one pest control contractor who said they use some sort
    of cyanide to fumigate.  This does not sound good to me, especially
    with a 6 mo. old baby in the house.
    
    Any suggestions?????
    
    Thx-
    Jonathan

    Go with the professionsal treatment. There shouldn't be any hazard
    to humans from fumigating.
    
    Wasps and hornets swarm and nest in the fall, so you might just have
    a new crop beginning to emerge. Even if they are new to your attic,
    you won't believe how quickly they can multiply! They also tend to
    frequent the same general area year after year, so it would be best
    to nuke them now.

    Whatever you do, *don't* cover up the vents in the lights.  If they are
    there to prevent overheating you could cause a fire and invalidate your
    insurance.
    
    Those stupid bugs always seem to come in this time of year.  I have
    never found all the places they come from.  Sometimes I think they come
    from the outside and just find their way in, rather than being born in
    your house.  I might go into the attic and spray some bee spray to
    discourage them, but I would think twice before *ever* having an 
    exterminator around my house again.
    
    I think they can probably be safe, but I have had two experiences with
    them, and never want to do it again.
    
    One of them deposited a large amount of chlordane dust in my attic to
    eliminate some carpenter ants.  Later I found out about chlordane -- it
    stays around for a long time.
    
    The other one left a strong smell of whatever chemical he was using in
    my daughter's bedroom.  It was enough to really bother her.  She had a
    lot of coughs that year, even though the smell eventually went away and
    even though he assured us that it was completely harmless to people.
    
    The tobacco industry has repeatedly assured us of the harmless
    qualities of tobacco smoke, too.  And nuclear reactors are perfectly
    safe, too, according to the government.  Chlordane was quite safe 
    until folks found out it wasn't.
    
    The second exterminator had his 14-year old son working with him, and
    they were spraying all sorts of stuff all around the house both outside
    and inside without the benefit of wearing masks.  Afterward I fixed him 
    a glass of water in the kitchen, and he had a real nasty coughing spell.  
    I guess I must have looked concerned because he turned the glass in 
    his hand to display the cigarette between his fingers as he said 
    "I don't know whether its the cigarettes or the bug stuff that's
    causing my lung condition."
    
    The problem is, people who work with hazards for a long time tend to
    deny the hazard even to themselves, and if they are making money from it 
    they sure aren't going to risk losing business by telling you any more
    negatives than the law requires them to do, if they even do that.
    
    If I had a baby in my house, I would sooner put up with the bugs. 
    Chasing a bee around with a swatter develops your reflexes and
    amuses the baby.

    You'll never be able to stop the bees from entering the house. They
    can climb through a space smaller that you'd ever believe. The only
    way to get rid of them is to remove the nests or poison them. 
    
    You can remove the nest(s) (if you have a lot of nerve) by entering the
    attic at night when they are (mostly) dormant. You have to find the
    nest first, then pry it free and drop it into a plastic bag or
    something else that they can't fly through, perhaps a 5 gal pail with a
    sealable top. Once you shine the light on the nest, you may awaken
    them. I'd make it a two night project: find them the first night, then
    go back the second with minimal light and attack. They are sleepiest
    when it's cold so do it soon before the weather warms up. Dispose of
    the nest in the local woods. By the time you get outside they will
    probably be awake and mad. They can chew through things like plastic so
    you're taking a chance. DON'T do this unless your NOT allergic to bee
    stings and have a lot of nerve. 
    
    I've used exterminators to get rid of them. While I'll agree that any
    checmical they use may be found to be harmful at some future point, you
    have to make some choices. I have little confidence that the vapor from
    the stuff you buy in a spray can is any better for you than what an
    exterminator sprays, especially since most people do it without any
    sort of mask. Call around for an exterminator who at least claims to
    meet EPA regulations. I don't have much confidence in the EPA either,
    but somebody who mentions them is at least aware of safety concerns.
    Either way, I'd leave the house for several hours after they spray
    with all the windows open. 
    
    Most exterminators wear masks and have themselves checked
    monthly for contamination, just to make sure they don't accumulate
    unusual levels of anything. 
                                                                        

    The bee/wasp killer sprays (the ones that spray about 25 feet) are good
    when used in the search and destroy missions described in .-1. 
    Soaking the nests at a (relatively speaking) safer distance beats
    trying to stuff the little critters into a plastic bag (somehow I have
    a hard time believing they would have a sense of humor about being
    stuffed into a baggie!).  As previously stated, the darker and
    especially cooler the better for this task.  It sure helps if you have
    scouted out your target before you attack. 
    
    As previously stated, if we're just talking about an occasional wasp,
    you're probably dealing with bees that have squeezed into your house
    through some circuitous route -- if this is the case you're probably
    better off doing the spot swating method.  
    
    I think exterminators are probably a waste of time unless you have a
    serious problem.
    
     

I, too, used to go with  Rachael  Carson's  bug-a-boo,  until  I  found out how
persistant Chlorodane is.  Since then, I  have  had  very good luck with one of
the RAID products.  It shoots a stream  of liquid about 10 feet with reasonable
accuracy.  

There are two fairly safe ways to get the yellow demons;  in the air and in the
nest.  Moring and evening, they  shuttle back and forth from the nest.  You can
zap them then, but that is time  consuming,  albeit  great fun.  Find out where
the nest is by watching them fly.   In  the  late  evening when they are in the
nest and relatively inactive, SOAK the nest with the  RAID stream.  If it is in
a confined space (ie, you cannot run away), your heart  will probably be racing
faster  than  a  hot  car so make sure every bit of  you  (including  face)  is
covered.    You  will  likely not need the covering, but your heart  will  feel
better.

Actually, there is a VERY effective way of getting them -  especially  if  they
are  Yellow Jackets.  Yellow Jackets are about 1/2 inch long, dull  yellow  and
the  NASTIEST creatures on earth!  They do not wait for provocation to  attack.
Their temperment  is  tempered,  however,  with  a  lack  of brains.  They will
attack, at high speed, in a straight line.  When they hit, they actually bounce
off, turn around and  go for it with the stinger.  That pause to aim makes them
very vulnerable to death by  clapping  of  hands.  Or, if you are really quick,
snatch them in flight and squeeze.

Humor aside, all of the above really works.  Luck.

Dave

    re .-1 
    
    You're right, bees aren't the smartest creatures on earth, but they'll
    fight to the death if their home is being challenged.  For this reason,
    I wouldn't advise the "shoot them out of the air" methodology mentioned
    in the previous note unless: 
    
    a. you have a death wish
    b. you are an extremely fast runner (I mean olympic quality) 
    c. you have incredible aim 
    
    These guys will gang up on you when they realize you're out to
    systematically knock them off -- and stupid or not, it doesn't take
    them long to figure out that you are threatening their home.
    Blasting them (in batch) when they're all 
    in their nest on a cool night is the most effective (and safest)
    approach.  
    

>a confined space (ie, you cannot run away), your heart  will probably be racing
>faster  than  a  hot  car so make sure every bit of  you  (including  face)  is
>covered.    You  will  likely not need the covering, but your heart  will  feel
>better.                                                                        
 
    If you think covering up will be any advantage, better wear something
    that has absolutely NO openings. I've gone this route before and
    they'll find any spot they can to enter, like spaces between cuffs
    and gloves, openings between helmets and collars, etc. They can
    be _very_ intelligent about this. 

    If the indoor next is exposed and you don't like chemicals, I've heard
    that a looooong spray with a CO2 extinguisher (snow) will freeze the
    nest and keep the buggers in suspended animation till it thaws out,
    allowing the next to be removed.
    
    Eric

    Thanks for all the suggestions.........does all this apply equally
    to the "long bodies" black wasps.  They seem to be the more serious
    problem right now......do they have different "life styles" than
    those described for the bees?????
    
    Thx again,
    
    Jonathan

    It seems I have to battle wasps every year.  Even after I for sure
    know I've rid of them from my house, they seem to come from other
    sources.  They do build nests everywhere, so watch where they fly
    and you will learn where their nest is.  Most of the time, I've
    found them building nests between my window shutters and siding.
    Also, in rock retaining walls, girders to my snowmobile trailer,
    and wood pile.  I've been using cans of Raid wasp killer.  When
    I find a nest, I wait till evening, then squirt a 12 foot stream
    of the stuff right into the hole of the nest.  Some will exit, but
    drop as soon as they try to fly.  If their nest is in between a
    window shutter, I spray behind the shutter exactly where they've
    been going. 
    
    If they're getting into your attic, do your attic vents have screens?
    I've even had some climbing in between shingles of an old asphalt
    roof.  If there's a slot or space, they explore everywhere.
    
    Good luck.
    

    re .9
    
    Wasps, hornets, and yellow jackets all have the same life style. Wasp
    stings are more painful by several orders of magnitude. If you've never
    been stung before you're in for a treat ! Seriously, if you aren't sure
    you're not allergic you might want to think about it a bit before fooling
    with large quantities of them. 
         
    Bumble bees are everbody's friend. I've never seen a bumble bee
    hive... I wonder where _they_ live ? 

    
    RE: .10
    
    I thought spraying that stuff on painted surfaces was a no-no. 
    I'd check the can before spraying it around.  I know for a fact
    it kills grass quite nicely.

>    Bumble bees are everbody's friend. I've never seen a bumble bee
>    hive... I wonder where _they_ live ? 

Bumble bees live underground in small nests.  Like honeybees or most other
kinds of bees, they are harmless as long as you don't grab them.  They'd
generally rather flee than fight.  They seem to understand that stinging
you means death for them.  Wasps are a different story -- they can sting
repeatedly and seem to know it.  You can tell the difference at a glance
because wasps come down to a tiny little waist just behind the wings,
while bees look more like little flying cylinders.

					>>>==>PStJTT

    re: .12
    
    I did spray Raid on painted siding.  While it did leave an oily
    spot for a while, it did disappear, I think through evaporization.
    I used to have aluminum siding that was painted with exterior latex
    up until last summer.  That siding was painted by someone who had
    owned that house before us.  We replaced it with vinyl siding. 
    I have not sprayed Raid on the new siding yet.  I know I did also
    spray that Raid on latex painted wood trim to my summer home.  It
    did not do any damage to it either.  To be on the safe side, I
    recommend reading the directions on the can and follow it.
    

    re .13
    
    Do bumble bees live in groups or on their own while in these
    holes in the ground ? 

    Bumble bees live in enclosed holes with a few small openings,
    preferably facing south.  We have a hive in the wall cavity of our
    barn (not connected to the house, thank goodness) at the corner
    where the roof meets the the wall.  It faces due south.
    
    We once had a hive take up residency in our bedroom wall, yes that's
    right.  The house's shingles did not fit tightly against the irregular
    fieldstone chimney that faced south, leaving many entry points.  A hive
    of bees moved in. They started getting into the house through the
    fireplace, sashcord openings, and other points of entry.  I was not too
    pleased, to put it mildly. 
    
    Exterminators wanted to pull down the outside of the house, an
    unacceptable solution.  A beekeeper wanted to entice them out with
    another queen bee.
    
    They were finally removed by DIY.  My husband dressed in heavy clothes
    with a headress that consisted of his old Army hat wrapped in old gauze
    curtains, a lovely sight.  He pulled down portions of the interior wall
    to discover not insulation but a honeycomb.  Apparently previous owners
    encountered the same problem and replaced the wall (wallboard, not
    plaster), plugged the holes around the stones, but did not fill the
    wall cavity with insulation.  
    
    My husband sprayed the section with something-or-other, vacuumed
    the dead bees, pulled out the comb, removed more wall, and repeated
    the procedure.  It took a whole day.  He got stung only once, at
    the very end.  I got the prized job of removing the honey and comb
    from beneath the deep baseboards and into the floor cavity.  Yuck.
    
    We replaced the wall.  Oh, yes, we put fiberglass insulation in.
    Though that was more than ten years ago, we have not had a repeat
    bee occupancy.
    
	Marlene
    

re:.16

If they built honeycombs, they weren't Bumble bees.  If a local bee keeper
was interested in them and they made honey, they were probably Honey bees.

re: .15

I recall that they live alone, but I'm really not sure.  Some one else in 
this file probably knows better than I do.  My info came from watching
some one of the nature shows a long time ago and the details have faded.

					>>>==>PStJTT

    I to have the same problem as .0. All i do is but 2 SHELL NO PEST
    STRIPS an hang up JUST the yellow parts (not the fancy holders), one
    on each end of my attic (inside of course). All you find is a bunch
    of dead bees all over the place. You'll never stop from getting bees
    in the house, but this really helps a lot.
    
    dave b.

       Buy the 'old fashioned' pest strips. The ones that come in the
    little tubes and unroll to about 2' long. They're cheaper and have
    more surface area than the Shell ones.
                                            Denny

    re: .19
    
    Is that just flypaper strips (sticky stuff), or do they have an
    insecticide like the Shell ones?
    
       Gary

    Are your ridge,soffet,or gable vents screened ? I have had a major
    problem in my second floor with flies,bees, and moths coming in
    thru the vents. I spent a total of three weekends putting screening
    on the outside of the soffets and the inside of the ridge vent.
    I hope it makes a difference this spring/summer. I am getting tired
    of sweeping up the critters (2 papar bags full in 1.5 years) every
    couple of weeks. The no-pest strips work but the problem is that
    there is an infinite number of them.

    While we're on the subject of "flying pests" , what is the best way to
    seek out and destroy mosquito dwellings? It seems that during the
    summer months, and as recently as yesterday, I am constantly chasing
    the little buggers on the 2nd floor of the house in the night time.
    I have checked possible entry points in the house. We run a
    de-humidifier in the basement so it is dry. Do they like to gather
    on the 2nd floor because of heat (rising)?? How can I shake these
    little "suckers"?? Some nights it like sleeping out of doors........
    
    

Mosquitos lay their eggs in still, standing water;  millions can develop out of
an old 55 gal drum let outside.

They are attracted  by  a  variety of things including, some researchers claim,
certain colors.  The  thing  that has the strongest attraction for them is CO -
your breath.  Short of holding you breath.....


Dave

    re:.20 Strips
       I believe there is no insecticide. I still have an unopened one
    at home, I'll check the label.
                                                    Denny

    re.?
    Bumble bees are solitary bees and live in underground chambers.
    =-j

                   (BATS IN THE ATTIC!)
    
    A friend of mine has a severe problem with about 50 bats in her attic.
     Last night one made it into the house and she's looking for a safe and
     hopefully inexpensive way to get rid of them. She can't afford to have
     a proffessional take care of the problem.
    
    Anybody had this problem and how was it resolved?
    
    Please send mail to AIMHI::POULIN
    DTN 264-4040 Please don't call
    
    Any help or ideas word be appreciated.
    
    Thanks
    Mike
    

    
    Call a Pest Control company, they can take of them.
    
    Mike

    
    		My neighbor is having a problem with "Digger Wasps"
    	nesting in his driveway (unpaved). So far we have tried:
    
    			1) Common sprays
                  
    			2) Diazanon (liquid & granules)
    
    	       		3) Gasoline (a desperate act !!)
    
    		All actions up to date have failed. The little buggers
    	just tunnel their way out a few inches away from the poisoned
    	area OVERNIGHT !!
    
    		I've never seen this specie before (they are bright
    	red and black !!) and I'm looking for someone who has gone to
    	War with the little buggers and come out on top. Any suggestions
    	are welcome.
             

    Sevin is extremely toxic to bees of any description.
    
    pbm
    

    
    Re: .0 and .1
    
    I have no idea if Sevin would work for this problem, but since it
    breaks down naturally, leaving no permanent toxins, I would try
    lots of it.  Do you have stones on the driveway?  Can you 
    rototille the stuff in?  Good luck, and let us know your progress.
    

What is it and where do you get it?

We have these same wasps and are hesitant to go near them too often as they are
easily over an inch in length.  I want to make sure if I am going to antagonize
them, that they are going to wind up dead.

    Sevin is available as a liquid concentrate, to be mixed with water
    and sprayed.  It is very effective against bees and wasps.  During
    the last gypsy moth invasion, the town I was living in at the time
    sprayed a neighborhood for moths and wiped out an apiary over a
    mile away.
    
    It's available at hardware stores and garden centers, even discount
    stores during the summer.
    
    pbm
    

    
    	As I've mentioned elsewhere in this notesfile, I'm in the process
    of adding more insultation to my attic.  When I started this (back
    before the weather turned bitter cold), I'd notice a stray wasp every
    now and then.  No problem, I'd wack it and keep going on the project.
    I can see some wasp nests inside my ridge vents, but since there were
    screens on it, I figured it was just a loose screen that I'd tack back
    into place.
    
    	No such luck.
    
    	I've found out that my soffet vents aren't screened and that there
    are around 6 nests of various size (smallest = 2 inches, largest = 5
    inches roughly) *in* the attic directly above the soffet vents.  (Talk
    about the worst place in the attic to get to, but that's another
    story.)  When I repaint the house in the spring, I do intend on adding
    a screen all along the soffets.  However...  What's in those nests
    right now?  If there are any wasps in there, are they dormant enough to
    get nuked by some wasp killer spray and then have the nest get pulled
    out of there?  Spraying alone probably won't be enough since I can only
    spray onto one side of the nests given the lousy access.
    
    	At what temperature am I certain that they won't come out to get
    me?  The last time I saw one up there walking around groggily was
    probably 30 degrees ago...
    
    	Thanks!
    
    								-craig
                

    I think the nests are all empty.  All the ones I've ever found this
    time of year have been empty.  On the other hand, I don't claim to
    know where wasps go in the winter.  Any entomologists out there?
    
    					- Vick

    Craig,
    
        You have to assume that the nests have eggs and some quantity of
    life. When you go to remove them, if there is any life, your trapped and
    can't move fast enough to safety.
    
        This fall I had a nest containing 8-10 K Yellow Jackets. They were
    crawing out any crevice into the living area below. Thus, I'd tiptoe
    around each morning looking for the groggy ones and kill them before
    stepping on them.
    
        The method I used (which would work very well for you in this
    weather) is to: 1. spay the heck out of them one weekend. 2. Next
    weekend go up there with an industrial grade vacumm and suck them up.
    3. burn the vacumm's contents outside in a roaring fire. 3. place
    'shell no pest strips' and 3-4 boxes of 'mothballs' up there next 
    spring to discourage re-infestations.
    
        Step 3 is simply because you are not going to be able to close all
    entry points. My entry point was a knott hole that fell out of a trim
    board. You must remember that several generations of yellow jackets are
    use to your attic. They'll come back worse than 'a bad penny!'

    RE:.28 "spay the heck out of them one weekend."
    
    WHAT A HECK OF A VET BILL!!
    
    :-)
    
    ed

    As long as the temperature is below, say, about 40 degrees you
    won't have any problems.  They won't be able to move, even
    if there are any in the nests, which there probably aren't.
    Srape the nests into a paper bag, close it up, and throw it
    away.  (Don't leave the bag in your warm house for any length
    of time, however....)

    I used to use moth balls, but I think they are enough of a health 
    hazard that I don't use them anymore.  We have a walk up attic and
    the family members are always rummaging around up there.
    
    					- Vick
    
    P.S.  I got stung by a yellow jacket last summer for the first time in
    my life, and I can't tell you how fervently I hope it's the last time.

    
    	Thank you all for your comments.
    
    	The battle begins Friday morning at sunrise.  The forcast is for
    incredibly cold temperatures with a low Thursday night / Friday morning
    of what, -5 or -10 here in Nashua?  That should be cold enough to
    insure that all those little buggers are in deep hibernation.  (That
    should also make sure that I have to wear many layers of clothing in
    case the wasps are wearing their little woolies and long winter
    underwear and decide to take an early morning flight.)
    
    	I'll report back after the battle is over.
    
    							-craig

    I live in the 3rd floor of a victorian house in Worcester, and I've got
    flies bad...  I've only been there since August.  This Fall was the
    worst.  Two of the rooms are not finished and have insulation showing.
    I get flies in my livingroom/bedroom.  Yesterday when it was about 40
    degrees out I killed about 10.  The warmer it gets, the more I get.
    This Fall I went into one of the unfinished rooms and found about
    75 sunny on the window.  Gross.  I took the shop vac to them.  My
    question is... how much does it cost to have someone come and get
    rid of these things?  The worst part is that I have a suspended 
    ceiling and they are constantly bumping into it making an annoying
    tapping sound.  I'd like to get rid of them before the warmer weather
    comes!
    
    Thanks,
    Melanie

    This is very interesting.  We get what we call "slow flies" in the
    winter.  In the summer we don't have any flies at all in the house,
    but in the deepest part of the winter, all of a sudden, big black
    houseflies will start showing up and buzzing around.  They are very
    slow and easy to catch.  I've always been totally mystified as to 
    where they come from.  They are obviously hatching in the house, but
    where?  Anybody have any ideas?
    					- Vick

       I aleays thought all the flies wintered at the Boston Garden.
                                           Denny  ;^)

    > I took the shop-vac to 'em...
    
    I had the same idea once. Why try to swat 'em? I'll just vacuum them
    up. But my fly problem didn't go away until I actualy started killing
    them. It seems vaccuum cleaners (at least mine) don't kill flies, they
    just hide them temporarily.
    
    Edd

    All you have to do after sucking the flies up with the vac is
    spray a little bug killer after them.

re:.13

	I would be surprized to see the hornets dies in the vac either. I
would do what .14 does for them too.

I'd be a little concerned about spraying bug killer into a vacuum cleaner.

If you consider how vacuums work, what will happen is that the machine will
suck in the spray followed by relatively huge volumes of air.  The spray will
hit the bugs and then most of the active ingredients will continue on through
and be pushed out the positive pressure port of your vacuum cleaner which one
assumes is where you're standing.  The active ingredients will spend more time
in your space than the bug's space and the bugs will get a sudden dose followed
by a large intake of clean air.  If the spray is nasty enough to kill them
instantly, then you'll be standing in a cloud of really nasty chemicals.  If
it is not very nasty stuff, then the clean air folowing up will probably 
resuscitate the bugs while you still end up standing in a cloud of moderately
nasty chemicals.  All bug sprays that I know of recommend against breathing 
the fumes.  Some, like hornet sprays, are a sort of nerve gas that I personally
wouldn't want to tangle with.
					Just a thought,
					>>>==>PStJTT

When I painted my porch, I set up the shop vac with an extension tube right
over the hole where the yellow jackets entered.  An hour later I sprayed in
the poison and then immediately shut off the vac. It worked like a charm. If
I was indoors, I'd run an additional hose from the exhaust line of my
canister vac out the window, or attic vent, spray and then shut off. 

-Bob

    Sevin(carbaryl) is a carcinogen. Try you library and extension agent.
    Learn all about the wasps(or whatever) first. Your last resort should
    be ignorantly dumping pesticide in your yard. As stated in reply .4
    it is highly toxic to bees and fish.

    This seems to be a good place to ask.  I've read the replies about
    Sevin.  Does this work inside as well, is it safe, harmful to animals?
    I am starting to see wasps in my house. I believe that the nest
    is near the water inlet of one of my baseboards.  So far my four
    cats have been able to do in all the ones we've seen. (They think
    its a game.)  If Sevin won't do the job what will?
    
    Kevin
    

    RE: .10
    
    Well they came and got rid of my 'cluster flies' about a month ago.
    $85 and I have only seen about 4 since.  
    
    Melanie

    Re .18
    
    Melanie - I've never heard of "cluster flies" before...do you know
    their cluster alias?  (Sorry - it's been a long week & I couldn't
    resist.)
    
    Glad it's worked out ok for you so far - presumably the treatment
    is guaranteed for a certain period?
    
    Evelyn

I have a large pressure treated deck at one end of my pool. I have a problem 
with wasps nesting underneath the deck, which is six inches off the ground.
They fly between the deck boards and it's anyone's guess as to where the 
actual nest resides. Obviously the wasps don't understand that there will 
be a lot of bare feet and sunning bodies in this area in a few short weeks,
so, they have to go. 

My question is how do I clobber them?  I can't see the nest (I'm not going 
to stick my face that close to the deck), and I don't have access underneath.
I thought of covering the deck with plastic and fogging them, but I question 
how effective this would be. Plus, I'm not so sure residual insecticide on
the deck boards is such a good plan. Anybody have any ideas?

Dan

Dan,
	This sounds like a unique problem. I.E. a new note sounds justified,
So here is my reply...


Use the wasp spayer that shoot the spray into the nest. I know you can't
see the nest, but a few minutes observance will provide an approximate location.
The stuff will kill the wasps on contact or in a few days if near the buggars.

	Do this at night!!!! When it is COOL!!!!

	Wasps are cold blooded so they usually don't go flying at night. Also
leave yourself a path to the house to run if they do decide to come out...


	After you sprayed the area... say away for a few days... The wasps
are very likely to be mad.....

	The stuff washes away with water so if it rains a new application
is required.

			Bill

    
    If you can somehow spray the nest, that's your best bet. Once the nest
    gets sprayed the wasps won't return. If you can't see the nest maybe
    you can spray in the general area real heavy and the stuff will somehow
    get to the nest. Also be carefull, Wasps are argessive little critters.
    
    Mike

    This may be a bit far fetched, but is there some way you could cover
    the entire structure with plastic and then use one of those fogger/
    smoke bomb type bug killers to kill them all off?  It might be a bit
    cumbersome but would ensure you got them all and not just one nest.
    
    ep

    After you get rid of them, drop or hang a couple of "No-Pest Strips" in
    the area under the deck.  We had so many wasps in our attic once that
    we called in an exterminator, and that's what he used to get rid of
    them.  Worked great at the time.  In more recent years, the no-pest
    strips don't seem to be as powerful, but they still help.
    
    I've heard that mothballs will discourage wasps too, but I tried them
    in a swing set and it didn't bother the critters at all.
    
    /Don

    You don't say if these are ground-dwellers or not.  If not, I'd say go
    for the spray and be ready to RUN.  For ground dwellers, I have used a
    hose.  Take a good look and figure out where the nest opening is -- it
    would be a small diameter hole in the ground.  Then, after dark, best
    on a cool night, bring a flashlight and the end of the hose over there,
    find the hole, and stick the hose in there.  (I usually RUN at this
    point :)  Then go turn the water on, not too hard but more than a
    trickle.  Leave it on all night.  All the next day won't hurt but is
    probably overkill.  Sorry 'bout that.

    Gee, I don't know, if it were me and I planned on spending some time
    on the deck this summer, I'd call in an exterminator.  At the very
    least, they'd be able to tell you how they plan to get rid of them, and
    possibly even give you a hint where the nest is.  Of course this is
    from someone who smashed into a hornet's nest in a bathing suit. YOW!!
    
    If you send me mail, I can send you the name/number of someone CHEAP!
    
    Good Luck .... and keep your distance!
    
    Patty

    Wednesday night I noticed a hornet nest hanging from my eaves. I was
    really impressed! It wasn't there in the morning, and by evening it was
    already a 3" ball with multiple cells inside. Fascinated by these 
    industrious creatures, I watched them build for 10 minutes or so,
    marveling at the wonders of nature....
    
    ...then I knocked it down and ran like hell.
    
    Last night I got home only to find they had rebuilt in the same spot!
    Another 3" ball dangled from my eaves. Nature is great and all, but
    I'd had my fill the previous night, so I knocked this one down forth-
    with...
    
    By 9:30 last night they were building yet another!!
    
    Persistant little monsters, ain't they????
    
    Edd

    Well, Edd, you know what the brokers say: Location, location, location!
    Apparently, the hornets believe it. 8-)
    
    Bob

    Before knocking it down, next time spray it with bug spray, the one
    that shoots ~25'.  That's what I did last year.  They will keep coming
    back for a couple of days, but after that they will either take the
    hint or be wiped out completely.
    
    Chris D.

    Re .21
    
    Nothing to worry about.  I understand their bank failed and they
    can't get another construction loan.  Or was that another note?
    
    pbm
    

    I have always heard that the little part of the nest which actually
    attached to your house is very important.  If that is intact, they will
    rebuild.  I have always made sure that I destroyed that little
    projection from the building to help discourage them from rebuilding in
    the same spot.  
    
    I don't know why they would not just put up another hook.  Maybe the
    hook is created by the queen or some such?

    I'm pretty sure I have wasp/hornet nest(s) IN my attic this year. It
    was the case last summer when I moved into this house. This year seems
    even worse. I have a pull-down attic door, and when I pull it down, I
    can see bees flying around. When I try to go up there, there are quite
    a few around. What I was wondering is if there are
    commercially-available "foggers" of some sort that I can just set off
    in my attic and get rid of the damn things. The attic is well
    ventilated and would be next to impossible to temporarily close up. So
    I'm not even sure a fogger would be effective. Has anyone tried this
    sort of thing to get rid of bees in the attic?

    RAID makes a commercially available fogging cannister. You immerse
    it in 1/4" of water and leave the room.
    
    I don't know how effective it is on hornets, especially in an area you
    can't seal...
    
    Edd

    	I used the Raid fogger on my under-construction addition. It has
    ventilation via the not-yet-covered-by-insulation roof vents. 
    	There were many yellowjackets on the floor the next morning.
    	Add the shoots-a-25'-stream wasp & hornet spray for outdoor nests
    and I've got the stinging buggers under control. - Chris

    The trick for those nests is to use the bomb that shoots 25' or
    so, but do it after dark.  The pests return to the nest around sundown,
    and the bomb is supposed to kill all of them.  
    
    You can knock down the nest the next day.  If you killed all of
    them, then rebuilding at the same location probably won't occur.
    
    Lee

    
>    You can knock down the nest the next day.  If you killed all of
>    them, then rebuilding at the same location probably won't occur.

IMHO, you should always deal with wasps, bees and thier ilk in the dark, 
preferably cold dark, with a moon out so you don't need a flash light.  They
use the sun to navigate and don't (can't?) fly without it. And the cold makes
them sluggish since they are cold blooded.  A 50-55 degree night is enough to
make them very slow.

But as suggested cover the nest thourougly with that long-range wasp spray.
Wait a while, perhaps a day, and go out the next night and knock down the
nest...

Chris

    Here is a helpfull hint that you might want to try once you get
    rid of the nest to keep them away.  For the last couple of years
    I have used the "No Pest Strips", however they are no longer
    available since they cause cancer.  This year when the bees,
    hornets, and wasps arrived I hung up a couple of old socks filled
    with Moth Balls and they have totally left the attic area as well
    as out in my shed.  I would not have believed it if I hadn't tried
    it.
    
    	Greg

    re .30
    
    >I have used the "No Pest Strips", however they are no longer
    >available since they cause cancer.
    
    I saw them in the (grocery) store just last week.  Are you sure about 
    that??
    
    Patty

The latest Consumer Reports mentions a brand of no-pest strips that makes
environmental claims.  According to CR, Shell voluntarily pulled them off
the shelves when the active ingredient was identified as a suspected carcinogen.

BTW, the "environmentally safe" ones use the same stuff.

    i once used one of the commercial wasp sprays on a nest outside my
    house.  it did the job well and i notice that the wasps/hornets did 
    not return to the area.  when they eventually nested in my attic, i
    once again removed them with the spray, decided to try the "ward off",
    or residual, effect of the spray.  so each season, i
    spray my soffets and attic windows with the commercial spray.  i don't
    know if i'm fooling myself, but since i've begun doing this, i've not
    had an attic problem at all.
    
    sam
      

    re .anyone
>One cheap and easy way to get rid of a Y J nest (if you can find it) 
>that I think I learned from elsewhere in this file:
>Hang a no-pest strip outside the access - they will track the 
>insectiside (sp?)  into the nest and eventually die.
    Are these "no pest strips" still available? I don't recall seeing
    any in stores these days. It sounds like an excellent method for
    a first attempt anyway...
    
    John

There was a bit on no-pest strips in Consumer Reports a few months ago.
The active ingredient is considered dangerous (perhaps only around food?).
Shell no longer makes them, but somebody else does.

Re: No-Pest Strips

I've seen them in the stores within the past month.  It's basically a
large-scale flea collar (same material).  

			Steve

    re: past couple
    I was just in K-mart and didn't see anything like them. Closest thing
    was fly paper. What is the product you've seen, and where?
    
    John

I've seen "Pest Strips" in the same rectangular box as always.  One place I
think I saw them was Hammar Hardware in Nashua.  I've also seen them in
grocery stores.

				Steve

    re .-1
    I was in Hammar just yesterday looking for these. The guy said they
    hadn't carried them for years. This is the one by exit 7, right?
    Can you recall the brand?
    
    John

I didn't look that closely.  If I spot them again, I'll let you know.

			Steve

re: .-1   You won't.  The man at Hammar said they were pulled from the market.
	(Guy's probably wondering why the sudden burst of interest :-)  )

    yeah, but I saw them in either Shaw's or Market Basket this summer ...!

    re: no pest strips
    Since the bees aren't flying much these days, they wouldn't be
    effective even if I could find them.
    Instead what I did was pretty basic. Removed a piece of the soffit
    which exposed the nest (did this on a cold morning). CAUTIOUSLY broke
    into the nest as far as I could without disturbing the bees. Took a can
    of Ortho wasp killer and sprayed like heck. Stopped about halfway thru
    the can, came back 10 minutes later, and started removing more of the
    nest. Saw some activity, so I emptied the rest of the can. This
    weekend, I removed as much nest that I could (it was BIG). Replaced
    the area where the nest was with insulation, replaced the soffit,
    sealed the openings.
    I know there's some more nest back there, and some dead bees/larvae.
    Will I have an ant problem?
    
    John

      
    
     Does anyone have any suggestions on what to do about mice in my walls
    and attic. I can hear them running and scratching at night, but I don't
    see much evidence of them around.
     I am a little leary of using poison since I have two dogs and a baby,
    but will appreciate any ideas anyone may have.
    
                        Thanks in advance, 
                          frank

    Don't rule out squirrels or racoons as the source of the noise; this
    time of year they like to come in from the cold.  You'd really be
    suprised at what a good job these critters do in squeezing through
    holes one would think are WAY too small for them.  Once they've
    gotten used to a particular place, it is rather hard to get them out
    for keeps; most screens and meshes are not strong enough to deal with
    a determined 'coon.
    
    If the noise source IS squirrels or racoons, placing large quantities
    of moth balls about the attic has been touted as a repellent; I've
    never heard that it really works, though.  Some sort of live animal
    trap might be your best bet; try asking your local animal control
    officer.
    

For those looking for the "No-Pest Strips" (or similar products), I saw them
again at Hammar Hardware in Nashua yesterday - in a display near the
cashiers.

			Steve

    Has anybody found No-Pest strips in the Framingham/Marlboro
    area?
    
    Thanks,
    Joe

    I'll be darn, they must have sensed the need from these notes!
    re .-1
    This past w/e I saw them at NHD - there should be one out there.
    
    John

    I finally found where my hornets are coming from.  Unfortunately
    the nest (LARGE) is at the top of a fairly tall tree.  Must
    be close to 45-50 feet up.  Any inexpensive ideas on how to get
    rid of the hornets short of chopping the tree down?  It is unlikely
    to support a ladder above 20 feet (to thin) and those high pressure
    cans of spray don't make it above 20 feet straight up even if they 
    say they can reach 30.  I suggested to my wife that we call the 
    fire department but she just laughed.  (I thought it was a possibility
    but she talked me out of calling)

    Re: .60
    
    Call an exterminator.  That's their business.
    
    			Steve

    
    Although I'm kind of partial to .61's solution, there may be another.
    If you have a garden hose that can reach the tree and shoot up water
    that high, then try that. You may even try it with one of those Ortho
    kits you attach to the hose, and fill the canaster with diazinon.
    
    Mike

    How about a shotgun?

    I had great success taking out a yellow jacket's nest with the simple
    and ecologically sound garden hose. Even though I did this in broad
    day light I was not attacked. (Yes I did have and escape handy ;-) )
    
    The yellow jackets attempted to attack the spray of water that was
    hitting the nest instead of me! I made sure to eliminate the base of
    the nest and never had a problem after that.
    
    

    The water hose trick came to mind after I typed in my note. 
    I think I'll give it a try by standing on the roof of my house
    to get a little closer.  I have well water so my water pressure 
    is not very high but I'll give it a try.  

    There is one small problem;  I am deathly allergic to bee stings!
    This makes me just a slight bit nervous but my experience with
    spraying nests around the house eves in the late evening is that
    they really don't attack.  Of course my allergy to bee stings as
    well as my son's is the real reason for wanting to get rid of the
    nest in the first place.

             <<< Note 1346.66 by PARITY::KLEBES "John F. Klebes" >>>

>    There is one small problem;  I am deathly allergic to bee stings!

    John,

May I seriously suggest then that you leave this to a friend or neighbor or 
professional to do??? It sounds like standing on the roof gives you *NO* 
quick escape if/when the wasps decide to attack you. Try calling your local 
Bd of health or police for local bee keepers, they often will help remove 
the pests and have the proper safety gear to wear. If you can't find 
someone locally, call a bee keeping supply place as local to you as you can 
find, they may know of someone in your area who can help. It may cost you 
money to get rid of them, but sounds like it is cheap compared to the 
consequences of you getting stung.

    Vic

    I'll second what Vic said in .67  My suggestion was based on one
    experience. I would be seriously concerned if you lacked sufficient
    water pressure to dislodge the nest effectively, and would be
    especially concerned if you lacked a good escape route!
    
    	Depending on the variety of insect that you have, you may find that
    a local bee keeper will be happy to rid you of your problem.
    

    As you probably know, allergic reaction can result in as fast as 15
    seconds from an insect sting.  This reaction for most people is the
    swelling of the airway cauing suffocation. You probably keep medicine
    on hand but can you administer it to yourself in time?
    
    I also would recommend you encourage someone to help you with your
    project for safety sake.

    If the nest is reachable with a long pole...tape a railroad flare to
    the end of the pole, set it off, and then jam the flare into the
    bottom of the nest.  Be careful you don't set anything on fire you
    don't want to, though.

    Yeah your probably right.  I do have an epinephrine injector but my
    wife says I still take too many chances.  I think I'll try the
    fire department.  If I tell them I am allergic to bees they
    probably will come out.  (I would guess it would be fairly simple
    to knock down using their high pressure hoses)  

    re. beekeepers.
    Most bee keepers register with the humane society to be notified	
    when a swarm has been found. If they are bees most bee keepers will	
    come remove them just for the bees but if they are hornets or wasps	
    they are of little value to a keeper. You may find one willing to
    loan you his gloves and veil or do the job for you for a small fee.
    I doubt the fire department will be of much help their insurance	
    probably woulden't cover an injury incurred during pest removal not to
    mention tieing up emergency equipment in the process.
    That epinephrine injector is enough to slow down the edema long enough
    for you to seek medical aid but in the case of a multiple stings
    (possibly hundreds) it would be of little value.
    This sounds like a job for the pro's.
    
    -j(allergic ex-bee keeper)
    

    Can I interupt the bees-in-the-trees discussion for a bees-in-the-attic
    question?  
    
    Has anyone located any no-pest strips in the central MA area?  I've
    been looking everywhere, but can't find them.  They always worked well
    before, and I need some now.
    
    /Don

re: -< Back to the no-pest strips - where are they? >-

>Has anyone located any no-pest strips in the central MA area?  I've
>been looking everywhere, but can't find them.  They always worked well
>before, and I need some now.

    I may be wrong, but I seem to recall that the old yellow "No-Pest"
    strips (sort of a yellow plastic impregnated with an anti-bug
    repellent have been removed from the shelves "toxic" , I think.

    -BobE
        

Re: .74

Yes, they were deemed unsafe but they are still being manufactured and
sold.  As I indicated in an earlier reply, I saw a bunch last week
in Nashua.  Someone else said they saw them at an NHD hardware store.

I think the biggest problem with these strips is when they're used around
food, small children or in poorly-ventilated areas occupied by people.
I'd think they'd be fine in an attic, though proper attic ventilation may
reduce their effectiveness.

					Steve

I looked for a note specific to woodchuck elimination/termination and didn't
find one.  Please feel free to move this note if there is a better place for
it.

Late last summer a woodchuck moved into my front yard.  He probably likes the
nice geen grass salad I provide.  He has taken to hiding under the  (precast 
concrete hollow) front stoop.  At this point, I consider him under the heading
of "pest" as opposed to "wildlife".

I have tried many of the "Caddy Shack" approaches to elimination.  I have chased 
him with the lawn mower (he is too fast and I had to stop at the edge of the
lawn).  I have tried my fast ball with a rock.  While I was a decent little
league pitcher, I was a little high and outside (plus his strike zone is quite
small).  I have tried clubbing himbut again he is fast for a short pudgy guy.
I even tried woodchuck bombs.  These are not AWM (anti-woodchuck mines) but 
rather You light them, toss them in *all* (this is the catch) his exits and 
block escape with dirt.  They produce SO2 which sinks to the bottom of his 
burrow and makes it his tomb.  He still lives!

I have called the police.  They advise against termination system using .22
projectiles.  I have called various people in the phone book and they advise 
that these fellows are too clever for traps.  I even called a guy in Concord, NH
(I am in North Andover, MA) who advertises "Lions, Tigers and Bears and he told
me about the bombs.

This spring I noticed that there is a second woodchuck in the back yard.  Never
having been good in games of chance I don't like the odds that there is a 50-50
chance that this one is the opposite sex as the other one and that they may meet
in some woodchuck mating ritual.  Two is already more than I need.

Before my neighbors think I have gone totally crazy and these little buggers
cause any more subterranean deviltry, can anyone suggest how I can convice them
to relocate or expire?

Stan

    As an update to the idea of contacting the Fire Department to remove
    the nest.
    
    I posted a question in the FIRE-RESCUE-EMS notesfile which is followed
    by many volunteer fire fighters.  The response from them was that they
    fight fires and handle emergencies but are not in the business of
    rescuing cats from trees (have you ever seen a cat skeleton in a tree?),
    or removing insect hives or other much needed services.
    
    They suggested that an exterminator or local animal control be
    contacted for help in removing the hive.
    

    
    Definitely check out PICA::GARDEN.  (Press KP7 or Select.)  Sorry, I
    don't have any notes numbers, but there are many, many replies devoted
    to the woodchuck.
    
    If it's any consolation, the chucks mate in late winter and (as far as
    I know) are solitary animals, so I don't think you have to worry about
    the population increasing permanently.
    
    CQ

...at the topics I was sure were here but aren't.  We have a couple of "huge 
holes" notes, and some on moles, but none devoted to woodchucks.  So tell us 
your tales of mayhem and carnage.

Woodchucks have more of an ability than any other animal that I know of to turn
ordinary people - particularly gardeners - into raving Rambos.  I know this one
sweet woman who would never hurt a fly.  Then after losing two entire years 
worth of garden crops to woodchucks, she took to trapping them in Hav-a-hart
traps and then dropping the traps in her pool.

Paul

I second the recommendation of PICA::GARDEN.  I think they have a directory at
note 1, look there to find the woodchuck notes.

> ... she took to trapping them in Hav-a-hart
> traps and then dropping the traps in her pool.

Wow!!!  I wonder if the "Hav-a-Hart" people know about this use for their
product.  I can see their advertising now....

    re: no-pest strips.
    
    I once heard that one problem with them was when they were used in
    restaurant kitchens. Seems that the little buggers didn't look where
    they were going when they died and often fell into the food. Not only
    did it add crunch but you got a dose of the pesticide from the bug if
    you happened to eat it. (yum! ;-}  )

My local hardware store (Apple Meadow, in beautiful downtown Townsend) has
them.  It's a True Value, so you may want to check other True Value's near
you.

   Gary

So, get a large kite, and attach several no pest strios to it, then wait for
a good wind and let the kite get stuck in the tree near the bee's nest.

One of my gardening books states that "after driving around in your car with
an angry woodchuck in a trap in the back seat you may discover that you don't
have a heart after all."

    I had a problem like this a few years ago. Persuming that all animals
    have a keen sense of smell, I dumped some amonia in each of it holes.
    Don't think I killed the criter, but he took the hint and took the
    relocation package.
    
    Ray

    Have you tried gum yet? Roll up pieces of gum and place them around his
    home. I've heard (I've never tried this!) that they'll try to eat the
    gum and .... (use your imagination).
    			Cindy
    

    T-Berry gums works great on Moles and Shrews. The can't digest
    the gums and stares to death. 
    
    REK

    But what if the woodchuck chews itself to death under the steps?
    
    Edd

re. .5

I had a 'chuck last year and tried the ammonia-and-rag trick. Worked like a charm.
Be sure to use the unscented ammonia.  The first time I used the lemon-scented
stuff and all it resulted in was the rag thrown on my doorstep.  A clear indication
that the battle was lost, but the war raged on.

Chris

re: 4220.9                    Woodchuck Removal.                         9 of 9
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                           -< Ammonia does work... >-
>
>I had a 'chuck last year and tried the ammonia-and-rag trick. Worked like a charm.
>Be sure to use the unscented ammonia.  The first time I used the lemon-scented

    I wonder how effective this might be on Squirrels camping in my
    soffit ?
    
    Bob
    

	I've used mothballs over the years as a very effective pest
	deterrent.  Keeps cats from doing "you-know-what" in your 
	flower beds also!

    Most active beekeepers either will help you get rid of flying insect
    pests (nests or swarms), or at least will help you find a beekeeper
    who is willing to do so.  When I lived in Massachusetts (and was a
    beekeeper at the time), the more active beekeepers would register
    with the town police, town fire department, and town manager's
    office, so that a call to any one of them would be routed to the
    beekeeper.  Beekeepers do this for two reasons:  to capture valuable
    bee swarms, and to keep town residents from blaming "bees" for
    problems caused by other flying insects (hornets, wasps, yellowjackets,
    etc., which all look alike to most people).
    
    In addition, every county usually has an active beekeeping club (I
    belonged to the Norfolk County Beekeeper's Association, which I
    think is listed in the phone book) -- if you can find one, they will
    help.  Beekeepers are inspected regularly by the county agriculture
    agent, and must register their hives with them, so that is another
    way to find beekeepers.  Any beekeeping supply company (listed in
    the Yellow Pages under, guess what, bees) will also point you to
    someone who can help.  For that matter, if you have ever seen a
    house with a "Honey For Sale" sign in the front yard, they will help
    (or point you to help) also.
    
    Please don't use fire or dangerous chemicals, and don't take risks
    with your personal safety.  But please do say "thanks" if a beekeeper
    helps you (usually coffee and cookies will do!).
    Wayne

    
    
    I too had become rather frustrated after spending several-several
    hours and much money into a garden.  The low and behold, just as
    the crops started in so did Mr. Chuck.  As humor, my wife called
    me at work and said "Honey, theres a small bear in the garden".
    
    Well I got home from work and about an hour later looked into the
    garden.  Sho enuf, there was this critter you could have placed
    a saddle on.  This dude weighed in at 12 lbs. or better.
    
    I'm shrewed, I got my little brother-in-laws pump pellett gun.
    I pumped that bad boy about 13 or 14 times.  Fired away, hit the
    sucker on the back.  He stood-up and gave me the middle paw finger
    and walked back into the woods.    THIS MEANS WAR!  I then got out
    the 22 rifle and waited about 2 nights before he came back.  He's
    munchin away..I lock and load, make a noise, he looks up and I blasted
    him.  Needless to say...Broke the law by firing a weapon from within
    the house, never mind 500 feet of a dwelling.  Anyways, had a great
    garden that year.
    
    Now, I'm not telling YOU to break the laws by any means...!
    
    Bob

    
    I've just started suffering the carpenter-bee invasion this summer.
    Bees are 1+ inches in length, all black except for a yellow band at
    the base of the wings. Buzz as loud as bumble bees, and are as big.
    Chew 1/2" holes in the soffit to gain entry. I read the other replies
    on this bee here, and some things don't agree that I've observed. 
    Re .10, painting the wood didn't do any good (maybe multiple coats
    would help...) I have killed at least 6-8 so far (a few inside before
    they had time to get established, and rest outside trying to make a
    new nest).
    
    Here's how the war is going:
    
    1. I see one hovering around my porch, I first tried to shoo them away,
    that didn't work. Now it's take no prisoners! Shoot to kill. 
    2. Next morning, see a hole halfway thru the wood, fill with putty,
    paint the wood, if bee returns, kill on sight.
    3. Next day, same thing. More holes, more putty & paint. More bees.
    Where the h**l do they keep coming from? 
    
    Seems weird, since some mention that the bees like height for security,
    mine don't follow that line, I have a 3 story house with a 1 story
    porch in front, the hornets go for the attic and fascia up top, these
    other bees like the porch overhang. I noticed they only bore thru the
    horizontal boards under the overhang, don't do the vertical ones in the
    fascia. I'm about at the point of putting sheet aluminum on the
    overhang to prevent these damn bees from wasting my whole summer
    fighting them. Since the initial attack of theirs has failed, they
    seem to be calling for re-inforcements. I'm keeping up with their
    attacks on the porch overhang, but can't devote a lot of time to
    this (many other needed jobs around the house go wanting for this
    bee war). The porch is made of rough-sawn pine, if that makes any
    difference. It's not painted (completely, I'm working on that to
    hopefully prevent more attacks, but it is doughtful if it'll help).
    
    Then the hornets. In my attic, I have a gable vent. The bozo who
    installed it covered it with vinyl-siding and cut holes in the siding
    for air flow, and the hornets are getting into the attic because the
    vent doesn't fit tight to the wood around it. I'm spending more time
    battling insect invasions than anything else.
    
    And then the ants! :^( 
    
    I feel besieged... HELP!!! Anyone else out there having so much 
    trouble with insects?
    
    Fred (insect warrior)

    RE: .14

    A friend of mine in the Philadelphia area had the same type of problem
    with bees as you describe.  She was told to soak cotton with ammonia and
    stuff the cotton in the holes.  This seemed to work (I can attest to it
    because I did the stuffing).  I don't remember if it discouraged them
    enough to go the the neighbor's house, but I think it did stop their
    attack, so you might want to try it. This may at least give you a
    breather to attack on the other two fronts. :-(

    -Bob

    We just purchased a new house with cedar siding and just started having
    trouble with the carpenter bees.
    
    Found out that the whole exterior of the house was treated with wood
    preservative. Well almost the whole exterior. Some of the higher up
    places were missed and thats where the bees are making their holes.
    
    Seems that by using a wood preservative on the wood the bees won't
    bother it. Maybe they don't like the taste.
    
    Once they get inside the woodwork and start setting up house they sound
    like giant termites munching away.
    
    Mike
    

    Well, as a temporary measure, I installed aluminum flashing over the
    horizontal wood they seemed to prefer infesting. That stopped them
    dead in their tracks. I'll worry about the ventilation/rot problem
    at a later date, hopefully now that I've achieved victory for the
    moment ;^). I hope they don't start on the vertical wood. I've only
    seen one bee around, and he promptly was beaten to death by my trusty
    broom. Of course, this is a small section of the house (a porch added
    on a few years ago, mostly unpainted/rough-sawn pine boards). I haven't
    seen any other invasion attempts yet in other areas by these bees.
    
    Now for the hornets... (They are an annual event... :^( ).
    
    After that, the ANTS!
    
    Besieged & Bugged,
    
    Fred

re. .14

>>Bees are 1+ inches in length, all black except for a yellow band at
>>the base of the wings. Buzz as loud as bumble bees, and are as big.

I'm interested in them, as I have one munching on the eave and rake board of my
porch (unpainted, and will remain that way for awhile).  However, I saw a 
picture of bees identified as carpenter bees from a bug spray manufacturer.  
They did not look like bumble bees, but more like honey bees (except for the 
tool belts, of course).  I did have bees like the ones pictured, once; I found
it when  taking down a rotting porch joist that started making a buzzing 
sound.  Could it be that bumble bees nest in the same way as carpenter bees?

    
    Re .18
    
    Nope, I know what bumble bees look like, and these aren't bumble
    bees. I thought bumble bees nested in the ground. I know yellow
    jackets do (I've had them too). I've saved a sample of one of the
    bees I've killed in a jar, and will try to find out what kind of bee
    it is.
    
    Fred

Since I remembered our woodchuck in a note I posted earlier today, I felt an
update with our 'furry friend' would be in order.

I tried ammonia.  No dice.  I got mothballs and my wife waited until she knew 
he was in the hole under the stoop.  She emptied the box in the entrance.  The
woodchuck retaliated by digging a new exit and causing the collapse of our DIY
brickwalk.  This got me p*ssed off.  I tried bombing him again.  No luck.  I
tried spearing him with the angle iron on which they mount Boston Globe boxes.
I missed by a good yard.

I cogitated on the problem and came up with a solution.  I figured that a wood-
chuck would not like to live in a spring.  So I ran a hose into his hole and 
every time I went by I filled his hole to the brim with water.  I did this for 
about two weeks. I was also doing a continuity test to see if all his holes 
were connected. ;-)  It appears not. I actually was hoping I would drown the 
little pest.  No such luck.  My wife saw him exit from under the stoop in a 
bedraggled condition at one point.  I think this is a 'hiding hole'.  I don't
think he lives in this one.  Anyway, I took it he got the hint.

Since then I have repaired the walk and filled in his hole.  He is still around.
We see him occasionally but he has moved to the far end of the yard and hasn't
done anything destructive of late so we have an uneasy truce.  I have been 
thinking of escalating the situation and filling his other holes with water.
Maybe he will move to the neighbor's yard entirely.

Stan

Stan,

Will this be the subject of one of your upcoming articles in the Tribune?

daryll

daryll,

Unfortunately, I only got two guest spots in the Eagle Tribune.  I got a kick
out of writing the two columns.  Those who have read this file for a while will
notice that the articles were just a couple of notes I previously entered.  I
just borrowed them and spiffed them up.  Now if I could just convince them to 
pay me cash for doing this.

I was thinking I could write a bunch of articles, get syndicated, write a couple
of DIY books, buy an inn in Vermont and run it and have a couple guys named
Larry, Daryll and Daryll bother me daily.  Since your name is Daryll, would
you be interested?  You might have to change your name to Larry if I have three 
Darylls and can't find a Larry.  Just kidding.  ;-)

Thanks,
Stan

	    I'm not sure the difference between wasps, hornets and some
	of these bees but from what I understand, wasps are supposed to
	be good for a garden.  They don't pollenate it or anything like
	that.  Instead, they help to control the population of insects
	that will do damage to it.
	    It may not be so good for your house to let them take up
	residence there, but you might want to let them share your yard.
	Except on the hottest days (when you'd rather not be outside,
	anyways) they tend to be pretty placid... at least around my
	house.
					Tim

re: .20

The wasps that are good at killing the bad insects are not the same as
the typical large wasps that sting people.  I wouldn't let the stinging
sort hang around, lest someone who is hypersensitive get stung.

You can buy the good wasps from mail order gardening supply outlets.

   Gary

    The stingers are often called yellow jackets or hornets(?). I think of
    them as being black and yellow striped. They are sunz_a_bitches!
    The beneficial wasps are brown with some subdued black. Almost never
    sting.
    
    
    				herb

    What is a carpenter bee????? I've never heard of these things
    but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
    
    Joe
    
    

    If I remember right, they look like average bees but they dig into the
    wood. I had one on a deck rail in a prev house. Saw sawdust on the deck
    and looked up to see a hole in the rail. Sprayed some wasp spray into
    the hole and heard a BUZZ, Buzz, Buzz, buzzz
                                                z
                                                 zzzzz! And a bee fell out.
    Stuck a nail into the hole and it went in a ways. Sealed it up and
    covered the hole with a roofing nail.
    
    Eric

    Do bees pose the same problems as ants or termites? I can't 
    recall hearing much on these things as a problem. In fact, I
    first heard of them in this note file.
    
    Joe
    

	I trapped two in my yard with a Have-A-Heart trap and 

	delivered them live and kicking to the woods behind
	
 	PKO3.


	They're wily -- wouldn't go in the traps -- so I built a fence
	across their path into my yard from the adjoining woods,  cut
	a hole in the fence, and put the trap in place.

	Funneled them right in.


	--------------------

	ALTERNATE MEANS

	most grain and feed stores sell woodchuck bombs -- they're cardboard
	canisters with a wick - you find the woodchuck's hole, block off
	the alternate escape if you can find it, light the bomb, drop it
	in, and quickly cover the opening (lots of poison smoke comes out
	--don't breathe it in!)

	You gas them and bury them in one move.


	This also has worked well at my house.

    
    Corky, how uncharacteristically tame. A 12 guage, or an Uzi, would
    defintely convince them not to hang around...
    
    :-)
    
    q
    

>    Corky, how uncharacteristically tame. A 12 guage, or an Uzi, would
>    defintely convince them not to hang around...

Reminds me of a favorite MAD magazine article when I was young:

"Hunting english sparrows with a 50mm anti-aircraft gun."

;-)

Paul

    There's another note in this conference about digging holes
    under a walkway, to accommodate outdoor electric service.
    
    You might get in contact with those people and see if they'd
    like to try using a woodchuck to do the digging.

        I revived the other note. If you can FedEx him to me today, it
        would save me some work this weekend. Send me mail for my home
        address :-)

I've still got the woodchuck.  I am having trouble convincing him to get in the
FEDEX box.  He does like the insulation on wires.  Must be like bubble gum to
him.  Put him near a walk and he will burrow under it.

Stan

     Hi
    
    We just bought our first house towarads the end of this past summer. 
    The house had some bee/wasp problems.  I sprayed a few times(w/ those
    insta-kill type spray cans) but the seemed to re-appear or just
    couldn't get the right angle to get where they reside.  Anyway, I'd
    like to spray around the foundation/crevices of the house w/ some type
    of insect/bee/hornet spray that you put in those pressurized cans and
    mix w/ water.
    
    I've looked in a few HW stores and can't find anything appropriate.
    
    Could anyone suggest what I could use and also where I might find it?
    
    ANywhere in the Litteton/Boxboro/Acton/Maynard/Hudson area would be
    great.
    
    Thanks
    
    	-John

    I've always mixed a strong ammonia with water and sprayed with a hand
    sprayer directly into the nesting area, or as close as possible.  It
    killed the bees/hornets, and destroyed the scent they lay down to find 
    the place again.  New ones crop up but the old ones are abandoned and 
    most of the adults are killed by the fumes of the ammonia filling the
    area.  For safety, with large nests, I spray close to the proximity, 
    let the fumes chase them off, then spray the nest directly.  They never 
    come back.  
    
    Skip

    
    	RE: -1
    
    	Did you use any particular ratio of water to ammonia ?.

    About a 1 to 1 ratio worked for me.
    
    Skip

    Gumout carburetor cleaner does a real job on them.  I don't know
    how its long-lasting repellent effects might be, but it sure does 
    in the ones it hits.

    Th problem with the carb cleaner is if you get any on you..... also, it
    will peal paint.  Especially if it's a wood overhang you're working
    under.
    
    Skip 
    
    

    
    I am having a slight problem with Bees coming in my house. I don't
    exactly know where they are coming in. What can I do to prevent these
    bees from coming into my house? 
    
    Does anybody have any idea, where they are coming in?
    
    Thanks in advanced.            
    John

    Do you have an attic? One that's not usually occupied?
    
    Edd

    You need to know more information here......First, what types of bees 
are they? wasps or honeybees or ???

    >Wasps are big, wide wingspan, tend to fly with abdomen drooping, dark 
brown all over or with some black.

    >Honeybees are smaller, are brown and black and are nearly friendly 
enough to pick up. 8^)

    >Hornets? Not sure how to describe these except more vicious and likely 
to sting you.

    Are there 1-2 around? Or multiple dozens around and any one time? Where 
are you finding them? You have a problem if you have many at one time, 
there is probably a nest with interior access. If you are only getting 1-2 
it is hard to tell how and where they are coming in.

    If you think you have a serious problem, look up beekeepers (Apiarists) 
in your phone book yellow pages. Many of those folks do bee removal for a 
fee. If it is just a small gap or hole somewhere that can be patched, then 
you can do it yourself with little effort once you find it.

    	Vic

    Could be carpenter bees.  You should probably call in a pro.

================================================================================
Note 4784.0                     Bees in house....                      3 replies
ICS::POLCARI "John Polcari,PKO1-1/D1,223-1665"        9 lines   6-NOV-1992 13:35
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
>    I am having a slight problem with Bees coming in my house. I don't
>    exactly know where they are coming in. What can I do to prevent these
>    bees from coming into my house? 
    
>    Does anybody have any idea, where they are coming in?
    
>    Thanks in advanced.            
>    John


John,

I had problems last year with bees (big ugly wasps...) in the house.  I
could not find the entry point. I had one or two almost everyday during the
warm months.  I sprayed the attic, the eaves, the windows, etc... with no
relief from the bees.  Last fall I had problems with condensate dripping
from the exhaust fan in the interior bathroom whenever anybody took a
shower.  When I was looking for the source of the water leaking through the
exhaust fan I found that it was due to a HUGE bee's nest in the exhaust
line from the bathroom to the roof.  Apparently the Aluminum cover for the
fan became stuck open and the bees attached a honeycomb to the screen that
is there to keep out small animals.  Luckily it was cool so the bees were
fairly inactive.  I removed the exhaust line, dropped it into a plastic
bag, sealed it up and took it outside and cleaned it out.  When the weather
is cool like it is now the bees are easy to handle.  They can barely move. 
My next door neighbor had the same problem this year. 

Hope this helps,

Jim O'
    

    Yikes.
    
    Thursday night I saw a hole about 1.5" in diameter in my lawn. "Cool!
    Skunks!", I thought. (I generally like having animals about the
    estate.)
    
    Then I saw some yellow "bees" flying in and out. (I use the term bees
    generically for "yellow flying bugs that I suspect would sting me if
    aggravated". They could possibly be wasps, yellow jackets or something
    else of that ilk.) The hole is in a fairly well travelled area, and I'd
    really prefer they take up residence someplace else. Like Iowa.
    
    Friday morning I went out early (5:30) and threw a couple big shovel
    fulls of dirt on the hole, tamping it down well. "Suffocate, you
    devils", and I thought I was done with it.
    
    Oh silly me.
    
    Friday night I checked and found they had completely opened up the hole
    again. Over the course of a couple minutes I determined the air traffic
    to be at least on a par with the Dallas/Fort Worth airport. Arrivals
    and departures were at least 20 a minute.
    
    This morning I sprayed straight ammonia in the hole (from a window) in
    the hopes of stinking them out. They appeared to get a bit aggravated
    but no mass exodus as I'd hoped. So I bought a spray can of Raid Wasp
    and Hornet Death and attacked again from the window. Got a couple of
    them on contact, and emptied the can. Unfortunately, the hole slopes
    toward the house, making it difficult to get a lot of spray deep inside
    from my safe vantage point.
    
    So my question: Bees? Yellow Jackets? Wasps? Does it matter? More
    importantly, is Sevin going to do 'em in?
    
    Edd

    They're yellow jackets, and the only thing you did which might at all
    affect them is the hornet spray.  I don't think Sevin will affect them;
    am not sure what will get rid of them (or really if you can.)  You
    might try a tablespoon or so of Diazinon in the hole (at night or
    in the cool of the morning).
    
    I've generally left yellow jackets alone - they don't seem to bother
    me much (they generally won't bother you unless you start flailing
    around when they mosey over.)
    
    				Steve

    
    ...welll.... I used to cut the lawn under the apple trees where
    I onced lived.  Seemed the bees like to make their ground nests
    near the trees.  Cutting the lawn was a challange as you ran
    the mower over the next and then tried to rescue the mower which 
    was being carried away.....
    
    At dusk, mix 1/2 gas with 1/2 heating oil in a coffee can.
    dump in hole and light.  A small dia. rod is always nice to
    poke around after.......
    
    JD
    

    Since the nest was about 3 feet from my vinyl-sided house, the death by
    fire routine wasn't possible.
    
    The Raid stuff appears to have worked. (And it made a mess of my grass
    in the process...)
    
    Edd

    
       How about drowning them.  Put the end of the garden hose in 
      there at night and let it run?  I don't know its worth a try?
    
                  Mark

	I've tried drowning in the past, without success. Wasp & Hornet
	killer works. Best time to spray is after dusk, when they're all
	tucked in and asleep. Spraying during the day when they're active
	will potentially leave some out to re-build or relocate.

	Roy

    Diazinon is deadly to bees, yellow jackets, etc.  And the nice thing
    about it is you can attach the sprayer to the hose, stick it in the
    hole, and run like hell.  
    
    Every year, I get nests in my shrubs, and Diazinon eliminates them
    immediately.

    
    boiling water dumped in/around the hole after sundown is a safe way
    to kill them.
    
     Bob

    I have done the following:
    
    Get a long pole - 10-12 feet
    Attach to pole with a small nail a coffee can
    Fill coffee can with gasoline
    Carefully - keeping your distance and preferably at dusk when the
    critters are beginning to bed down - pour the gas down the hall
    Give it a minute for the vapors to get where they need to be
    Carefully, toss a match into the hole
    
    Never had to repeat the process
    
    As the above was usually done after these little sob's had stung
    multiple times one of my children, this method allows for a particular
    element of revenge. 

    2 *GALLONS* of gasoline?????
    
    I highly recommend this advise not be followed. Actually, I don't think
    any of the notes advising the use of gasoline are a good idea...
    
    Edd

    
     Re.91 - Maybe you haven't had a woodchuck eat all of your carefully
    tended garden or had your 8 year old daughter step into a yellow jacket
    nest? :^)
    
    				Kenny

    If you are eager to burn, use kerosene or mineral spirits or paint
    thinner.  Two gallons of gasoline will move a one-ton car 50 miles. 
    How far do you suppose it would move you if it went up?
    

	re: Why pour from a distance

	Easy - in case the bees get riled up when you pour, and come after
	you.

	But I don't like the idea of using gasoline anyway, because it's 
	a) dangerous any time you're igniting potentially explosive chemicals
	b) not a good thing to be pouring on the ground, environmentally
	   speaking
	The chemicals prescribed for the job can be used in smaller quantities.

	Never had to deal with woodchucks. But, I've read that if you make
	their home a mess then they will leave, because they're pretty
	fastidious. Some specific suggestions that I've read are honey and
	orange marmalade - makes the hole all gooey and stuff. Your mileage
	may of course vary.

	I did have a critter burrowing under the concrete slab for my shed.
	I first just tried filling the hole with dirt, with predictably poor
	results. But taking some broken-up concrete and toping that off with
	some slabs of slate did the trick. Never did see the critter (just
	its hole), but the hole didn't reappear after that.

	Roy

    
    
     re last few: there are several notes in this file telling about the
    hazzards of using gasoline for purposes other than fuel. It is
    not a good idea to use the bomb/flaming hole approach close to your
    house either.
    
    
      There are a lot  of safer methods (boiling water for bees, marmalade
    for woodchucks.) Although these methods may not offer the same degree
    of revenge, they are a lot safer to you and your surroundings. 
    
     Bob 

    A friend and I used a railroad flare fastened to a long pole to 
    successfully evict some bees from a birdhouse, years ago; of course,
    the flare caught the birdhouse on fire and it got destroyed along
    with the bees...but it sure did work!

    
    Re: water'n gas down the chuck hole.
    
    Ole father-in-law had commercial gardens that supplied a few
    grocery stores during the growing season.  He didn't believe
    in messing around.
    
    Actually, the episode sounds a lot worse than what it was.
    A rumble with flames and a little debris from the rapidly 
    expanding atmosphere in the hole as it exited. Then, literally,
    nothing.  No grass fires, no hole residents either!
    
    The method he used mostly when burrowing animals got too close
    tothe gardens was to take the ole flatbed international out there
    and run a flex pipe from the exhaust down the hole. Then pull a
    vacuum hose off the wiper motor, race the engine and shove the 
    hose in a pint bottle of kerosene.  
    
    I do not recommend the bit with gasoline.  As a matter of fact,
    I'm going to delete the entry.   
    
    Fred

    We had good luck getting rid ofg yellow jackets using a CO2 fire
    extinguisher. It froze them to death!

    How do they survive the winter???
    
    ;^)
    
    Edd

    What I've done for yellow jackets:
    
    Done the gas, works but not real smart.
    
    Diazinon mix in a garden sprayer.  At night stick nozzel down hole an
    let her rip.  Works great.    
    
    Go to Spags and get wasp spray and empty can into hole at night.  Works
    
    Skip the gas routine and use either the Diazinon or the bee spray.

    I don't understand all of these adhoc dangerous techniques.
    
    A can of generic (Ortho, or whatever) Wasp and Hornet spray applied to
    the nest after sunset works just fine.  Soak the nest when everyone is
    at home.  Knock the nest down then or wait for sun.
    
    I've even recently seen poles that allow you to hold the can at a
    distance and spray it.
    
    	why fiddle with anything else?  it's only ~$5
    	Dave. 

re>           <<< Note 1346.101 by DAVE::MITTON "Token rings happen" >>>

Not only that, in the early am, you can ambush them one-at-a-time as they fly
out of the nest.  The force of the spray knocks them down.  By the time they
recover, the poison is working.  Usually, if they recover flight at all, it is
only for a couple of feet.  Takes a couple of hours, but it beats mowing the
lawn.  Almost as much fun as spraying them with clear laquer.  Then, you watch
the wing beats slow down as the paint dries and they spiral down. 

Dave

    > ...the wing beats slow down as the paint dries
    
    I'll bet with real good aim you could hit just one wing, and force them
    to fly in circles all day....
    
    ;^)
    
    Edd

    Rose plant dusting powder, usually SEVIN, works well in ground nests.
    Just powder the entrance. When the bees leave they get covered with it.
    Makes them easy to see. They don't return. 

    
    I've got a slightly different problem.  I recently had a pool/spa put
    in, and honey bees have discovered it.  We often get 20 or so bees at a
    time, lined up very neatly, getting a drink.  With reports of
    Africanized bees being found only 100 miles away, I don't want to
    agitate these guys, but I don't want to share the pool with them
    either.  
    
    I don't want to spray, and get the chemicals in the pool, so if anyone
    has another idea, I'd sure appreciate it.
    
    Bruce

    A carpenter friend uses WD-40 as a general purpose Wasp and Hornet
    killer; even uses it on rusty bolts, sometimes!  Stuff kills incredibly
    fast, faster than Raid.
    
    CArl

    Gumout carburetor cleaner also does a great job on wasps....
    

Can't read the whole string and maybe I've even entered this already here, but
my favorite is to use the shop vac.  I just set the end of the tube next to the
nest with the switch on and then plug it in from a safe distance.  After about
an hour you can send a squirt of your favorite poison down the tube but 
I don't want the smell in my vac and I find that they all get killed just from
being tumbled in with a lot of dirt and dust for half an hour.  Worked for
me twice so far and costs nothing.

    re: .108
    
    If anybody tries this stunt and decides to follow up with a squirt
    of chemical warfare down the vacuum cleaner hose, make sure it's not 
    flammable; if flammable, the fumes might ignite from the motor sparks 
    and blow up the vacuum cleaner.  Although that would probably kill the 
    bees too....
    

    This has been the worst summer for the darn YELLOW JACKETS that I can
    ever remember!!!!  We're trying to finish painting the house (a job
    that really should have been done a couple of years earlier - quite a
    bit of sanding, scraping, and caulking needed!).  I'm allergic to bee
    stings ever since an incident a few years ago when I unearthed a hive
    when I was harvesting the onions in my garden and got some 30 stings
    all at once - last time I got stung I ended up in the hospital!  So
    far, we've spent a good deal more time trying to get rid of the yellow
    jackets than we have painting!  We've killed five hives of the darn
    things so far, and my husband got one sting (I've escaped so far).
    Of coruse, any area we have to hit with the "chemical warfare" we then
    can't paint for several hours until the bugs are dead and the chemical
    has dried.  I'm going to try to finish the job tonight....I hope!
    
    Does anyone know what yellow jackets eat???  They must like hot, humid
    weather - I can't ever remember having this many of them around before!
    
    /Charlotte
    

    
    On the news yesterday, the state of Connecticut warned it's 
    residents that they will notice an increase in the mosquito
    population.
    
    The state employees that had been assigned to insect control
    have been re-assigned other duties.
    
    Lovely, huh?   :^)
    
    Fred
    

    re: Charlotte...
    
    Yeah, hindsight being 20/20, I've noticed an increase in YJ also this
    year.
    
    I wonder if it was anything to do with the basically dry weather we've
    enjoyed this season.
    
    Edd

You really need to attack wasps early in the season, when they're
just building new nests.  That way there are fewer of them to deal with; 
less chance of sting, and you don't need as much in the way of chemicals.

I'm not sure what we did right, but we attacked all nests early in 
the year a few years ago, and haven't had a problem since, though I imagine 
they'll return eventually.  We had had a large infestation -- several feet
of nest behind the rake boards.  These were paper wasps -- not very
aggressive, but we don't like to take chances given a history
of bee allergies in the family.

   Gary

    FWIW, my neighbor had the exterminator in a couple of weeks ago.  Two
    days later, honey started dripping down the walls of his upstairs
    bedroom.  Investigation revealed a honeycomb approximately 3 by 3 by 8
    feet long nestled under his eave.  Evidently, the exterminator killed
    the bees and they stopped maintaining the hive, hence the dripping
    honey.  Since the comb was full of dead, poisoned bees, they didn't
    feel like tasting the honey, but they ended up with three trash barrels
    of comb, honey, and bees.
    

    His house is about 150 years old.  They'd never heard a single buzz
    from that corner.
    

    Actually, I've *been* killing yellow jackets all season - I didn't know
    there were several more groups of them behind the shutters until we
    went to take the shutters down for painting.  They're all over the
    place!  I'm going to attempt to finish the painting after work today -
    there is only an hour two left, I 'd say.  I will probably take the
    precaution of getting the bee-sting kit out where I can easily get at
    it first, just in case - Paul has been working a lot of overtime lately
    and may not be around for the whole job - I'm afraid that if I don't
    finish the painting the weather will turn and it will be too cold to
    finish up until next year.  The house looks pretty crummy at the
    moment; I don't want to look at the half-done job for any longer than
    necessary.  And I'd just as soon knock off any additional "flying
    hazards" or I'm sure there will be even more of them next year!
    
    Paper wasps, honey bees, bumble bees, and so on are not very aggressive
    bugs, especially compared to the yellow jackets.  Though if you try to
    paint over a hive, they will become so!  My great-uncle was a
    beekeeper...
    
    
    /Charlotte

    re: .110
    
>    Does anyone know what yellow jackets eat???  They must like hot, humid
>    weather - I can't ever remember having this many of them around before!
    
    From what I've seen, they'll eat anything.  One time when my family was
    picnicing, we left a plate full of chicken bones as a "decoy" so we
    could try to finish in peace (it worked to an extent).  I was amazed to
    see the yellow jackets flying off with pieces of fat, etc., from the
    bones.  They stripped them clean.
    
    Mark L.

There are two general kinds of hornets/yellow-jackets, protein-eating and
sugar-eating. The latter are the kind who like to take swims in your soda
can.

			Steve

    I don't "do" soda (I really suffer when I go on vacation someplace
    where you can't drink the water!).  Must be protein-eating YJs at my
    place.  I noticed some of them flying along the newly-painted areas of
    the house, swooping in at each painted-over nail hole in the siding and
    checking it out.  The damn things are probably looking for another
    small opening to set up housekeeping in!  They don't seem to require
    much space, either - you can caulk and caulk, and they still find small
    gaps here and there and start hives behind the trim, the shutters, etc.
    By spraying them in daylight when I can see them, some percentage of
    the darn things are away from home at the time and so escape.
    
    Finished painting the front of the house after work yesterday, but
    found yet ANOTHER hive of YJs under the eaves on the south side of the
    house.  I thought we'd gotten them all but they are hard to spot until
    you are up on the ladder, paintbrush in hand....  Anyhow, we doused
    that bunch also, and will try to paint the area tonight.  I am really
    concerned that the weather is going to turn cold after this weekend
    (which threatens thunderstorms anyhow) and that will be the end of
    painting for this season, so I really want to get the job over with.
    I'm not crazy about spraying poisonous chemicals all over my house,
    either, but the YJs have GOTTA GO!  (Clearly I should have started this
    job earlier in the summer, but I didn't.)
    
    /Charlotte (with green paint under her fingernails...)       

    
    
    While were on the subject.....  The other day a bee flew into
    the truck cab and I'd never see these marking before...  It was
    a little smaller than a bumble bee and had orange rings around
    its midsection.   Any ideas?

    
       RE: .110  Yellow jackets bite, not sting, that's why they are
                 more aggressive than bees I think, kinda like horse flies.
    
                 The dry weather has made the ground great for nesting
                 as well.
    
                         Mark

    Re .121
    
?       RE: .110  Yellow jackets bite, not sting, that's why they are
?                 more aggressive than bees I think, kinda like horse flies.
    
    
    As one who has been stung by yellow jackets *many* times, I take
    (painful) issue with this!

    
      I'll say, Yellow jackets have excellent stingers. Ouch!

    Saw an interesting-looking wasp/yellowjacket trap in one of the home
    centers recently. It was a clear plastic jar with a lid (similar to a
    3-lb jar of peanut butter), and had two or three sections of approx 3/4"
    diameter pvc pipe running thru it. Each pipe had a large curved section
    carved out along the length. The instructions called for the user to
    fill the jar a few inches with some type of bait (pieces of fruit, apple
    juice, etc), which would attract the insects to fly into the jar. The
    interior layout would then prevent them from flying out, apparently,
    and they would remain trapped until they died.
    
    Anyone ever try one of these? What were the results?
    
    Freddie

I've used one.  They work well.  You're supposed to put juice in the bottom
and meat or fish on the cut out parts of the pipes.

    
    While staining the side of the house yesterday, I was using my 
    tractors frontend loader as a platform.  When I finished one area
    I went to get on it and noticed a mess of yellow jackets about
    10 feet behind the tractor, looking for thier hole(s). Tire 
    must've plugged it.  This area yet to be landscaped. Growth
    over a foot high.  They were all over everything. Got out the 
    ortho wasp'n hornet spray and lettum all have it! Came back in 
    10 minutes and there was no movement. Dropped a bucket full of
    loam on top of where they were.  
    
    This morning, "NOTHING!"
    
    Fred

    
    RE: .-2    Those little yellow jacket traps seem to get more
               flies than yellow jackets, but they do work. You need
               to make sure you give them attention though, keep 
               replenishing juice and meat scraps and don't let them
               get too grundgy.
    
               Make sure the buggers are dead before you open the thing
               as well.
    
                       Mark

    Where to buy those traps ? and how much do they cost ?
    

    Never mind the traps.  Get the front end loader, instead.
    
    ;-)  ;-)
    
    CArl

    
    I recently bought a can of wasp killer at Moore's Hardware in Littleton 
    to kill off a number of nests that had formed in gap between some trim
    work and the house. The can stated that it shot heavy stream from up
    to 20' away.  
    
    Heavy is not the word for it. This thing shot like a garden hose. One 
    quick dash along the roof line holding the spray button down and it was
    raining dead wasps and yellow jackets. Must have been pretty rough
    stuff, the can explicitly warned against using it indoors.
    
    Worked like a charm. Check your local hardware store for a blue and
    grey can... can't remember the brand name.
    
    								- Mac

I've seen the traps in either Bradlees or Caldors flyer in the Sunday paper.
I think they were about $7.  If they still have them, they'd be end-of-summer
clearance items.

    Did anyone see 911 last night (tuesday) with the segment about the guys 
    driving a flatbed truck loaded with honey bees. The truck rolled over & 
    the driver was trapped in the cab for an hour while swarms of angry
    honey bees covered him and everyone who can to help. He was stung
    THOUSANDS of times & survived but they did say he contracted
    menengitis(sp) because of it. He seems to be ok now but what an ordeal.
    He's no longer a bee keeper.
    
    My skin was crawling, I had goose bumps everywhere just watching it!
    
    Alan   (Who can't stand having one bee buzz him, let alone thousands)
    

I saw that episode and frankly was appalled that no one did anything for the
poor guy except run around and get stung on his behalf.  Nobody could cover him
with a jacket or blanket?  How about a CO2 fire extinguisher?  Wouldn't that
calm those little suckers down?  Then they said the highway was closed for 
days while they cleaned up.  I must have missed something cause I was expecting
at any time to see the firemen foam the whole place.  Guess too many were 
airborne at any one time for that to work.  My vote would be to hit 'em with
CO2 and chill 'em right out of air.

    
    
    I would have tied the old "smok'um out" trick if the
    CO2 wasnt around....  "thinking" you find is not the
    plan of the day of most folks...
    
    JD 

    We bought one of those traps a few weeks ago when we were at wits end
    with bees or wasps in the house.  It was so bad at one point my 5 yr
    old daughter was terrified to be in the house.  We followed the
    directions with the bait, hung the trap and waited for the hundreds of
    bees to climb in.  3 weeks later, no takers on the trap, but we finally
    located the nest.  The trap is being returned to Grossman's this
    weekend.  It was $4.99 on the clearance rack.  Small print in the
    instructions say it works best if you put it up early in the season
    before the bees build their nests.
    
    Wendy

    Why not hold on to the trap for next year?
    
    Edd

    Good point, and I did consider just that.  But we have a garage full of
    stuff that we bought with good intention of using and then didn't.  I
    think this might fall into that category.
    
    Wendy

    For the lack of a better note, let me try here....
    
    Yesterday, after a hefty rain storm, I came home to find what
    appeared to be dark stains down the side of my house.  Closer
    inspection showed the stains to be browninsh-red fluid dripping
    down the side of my house.  Getting the flashlight, I followed
    the dripping to the top run of cedar ciding, where the "fluid"
    appeared to be seeping from underneath the top run of shakes.
    My first thought was that something in my attic in the eaves area
    was bleeding and the blood was seeping out via the shakes.  Further
    investigation found that the 1/4 round molding that joins the siding
    from the eaves had pulled away slightly, leaving a 3/4" gap where just
    about anything could crawl into it.  Then, I observed the oddest
    thing.  I found quite a few what I call "sweat bees" flying around
    the area - you know, not wasps or yellojackets, but the smaller bees).
    
    Now I'm confused.  Do I have a dying animal up there (bird, squirrel)
    that squeezed in and got hung on a nail?  Or do I have a bee's nest
    up there and some by-product of their nest is this red fluid? 
    Obviously, a call to a local pest controller is in order - but I'm just
    curious of others have seen a similar phenomenon.
    
    thanks
    andy
    

Been reading too many Stephen King novels, lately? :-)

		Steve

Call the National Enquirer.  They might buy your story.

    Looking back, it is an amusing story.  But it was shocking
    when I discovered it.  Anyway - any ideas?
    
    Hopefully searching,
    andy
    

    Are you dripping honey?
    
    Edd (who can't think of any way to make that question look right)

    C'mon, it was a serious question!
    
    Edd

    re: honey
    
    Edd - I thought about that, but the red stuff didn't have a sweet
    smell or sticky consistency at all - it was definitely just
    water-like and had a somewhat rancid odor.
    
    Any recommendations for a good bee/rodent exterminator in the
    southern NH area?  Oh, that's another note...
    
    andy
    

Ok, so have you found out what it was yet ?

Leslie

   >  I've got a slightly different problem.  I recently had a pool/spa put   
   > in, and honey bees have discovered it.  We often get 20 or so bees at a   
   > time, lined up very neatly, getting a drink.  With reports of   
   > Africanized bees being found only 100 miles away, I don't want to   
   > agitate these guys, but I don't want to share the pool with them   
   > either.      
    
    Never got any answers to this in here, but the problem may be solved. 
    Apparently a neighbor found a hive in their roof, and is having it
    removed today.  Since I entered the note, they've found "killer" bees
    in the area, and the bee remover guys have told all the neighbors to
    make sure all pets are indoors when they get there, just in case.  
    
    bruce   

    I have a tatty plastic garbage can containing some old "soft yard
    wastes," which has become home to some bees.  How do I get rid of the
    bees without getting swarmed?

Re: .0

	With the recent cool weather we've been having, wait for
	the coldest night and do it then.

	When I was gutting my kitchen last Oct. I found a gigantic
	(at least 3 feet wide) nest in an eve.  Using two large cans
	of wasp spray and a cool evening I got rid of the whole nest
	while "most" (but not all :-) were dormant and didn't get
	stung once.

The Massachusetts conference on 12dot2 has a note on bees (and a posting from a
beekeeper who would come and get bees).

    Re: .2
    
    Thanks for the tip.  Unfortunately, these bees are in south Nashua, not
    central Massachusetts.

    
    If the garbage can has a lid, then open the lid just enough to spray
    lots of wasp spray, spray, and close the lid.  After a while the bees
    will be dead.  At this point, empty the garbage and hose it out.
    

> The Massachusetts conference on 12dot2 has a note on bees (and a posting from
> a beekeeper who would come and get bees).

	You sure the beekeeper will come and get any bees?  I'm guessing
	the beekeeper is only interest in honey bees .... if .0 has the
	same type of yellow jackets I had, they don't produce any honey ...

But yellow jackets are not bees (at least to me).

As the beekeeper mentioned, yes I'm only interested in honeybees, and yellow
jackets are technically hornets and not bees, even though most people
call them bees.

At the time I wrote the note in the Mass. conference I was hoping to pick
up a swarm, which are easier to get than an established colony.  An established
colony is often difficult to impossible to remove without damaging what they're
in, usually it's better to destroy the bees.

A garbage can full of yard waste is probably yellowjackets or some
wasp, but perhaps honeybees were interested in the container itself if it
was mostly empty.  Perhaps the author of .0 could describe the "bee" better
(hairy?  color? yellow legs?)  If it is honeybees they'd probably
have been there since June or so, they swarm in the spring.

-Mike

>>> As the beekeeper mentioned, yes I'm only interested in honeybees, and yellow
>>> jackets are technically hornets and not bees, even though most people
>>> call them bees.

    Since someone seems to be knowledgable on bees ...

    We've discovered that our new home is regularly visited by what we 
    quaintly have been calling "mutant killer bees". 

    They are large (1.25" no kidding), and look like a wasp in that they have
    a narrow waist, pointy tail, and thin wings. However, they are very fuzzy,
    like a  bumble bee. They are all black, except for a small yellow zigzaggy 
    mark on the top back of the abdomen. They are extremely scarey looking, 
    and look like if they bit you they would take out a chunk of flesh. 

    My fiance has to keep an epipen handy because mosquito bites can cause
    her to swell to enormous proportions. So these mutant killer bees have 
    us worried. 
 
    I'm just curious what they are, but if you know how to keep them out
    of the house that'd be good to know, too.

    Kevin 

    re -.1, sounds like a carpenter bee. You'll want to get rid of them
    quickly. They are akin to carpenter ants for the damage they can do.
    

A sure way to get rid of the bees is to sprinkle a little bit of
powdered Sevin (tm) around the entrance of the nest or hole.  
As the bees enter their nest or hole, they will land on it and track
it inside.  It kills them after they try licking it off.

 

    Re: .7
    
    >Perhaps the author of .0 could describe the "bee" better (hairy?  color? 
    >yellow legs?)
                                         
    I'm trying not to get that close....  The trash can is over half full
    of stuff and the nest is hidden inside, so you can't tell from looking
    at it that the bees are there.  These are pretty small, yellow, with
    narrow bodies.

    
    Good Day,
    
    I looked at the "pests" listing but didn't find one for this, so here
    goes.
    
    I live in Atlanta, and for some reason, perhaps because of the
    unusually moist summer we had here, my yard has become the location of
    choice for no less than 3 thriving hives of yellowjackets. I may be a
    fan of their football team, but definitely not of these ornery flying
    pests. 
    
    Fortunately, I found two of the hives before I mowed over them, and
    saved myself from being stung to death. However, the third surprised me
    and I got a very unpleasant surprise, but I survived.
    
    At any rate, I have been unsuccessful in eradicating the nests. Being
    that they are inground, it is a bit dificult to get at them. I tried a
    spray foam product I purchase at Home Depot, and managed to get rid of
    one nest completely, but the other two are not cooperating. I have
    treated the holes twice each, and they seem to die and go dormant for a
    few days, and I covered the holes up with dirt. But, after several days
    they reappear, from a new hole. I can't find exactly where the new
    hole is, but it is near the original one, so I suspect I am not able to
    kill all of the eggs, and they are hatching and then tunneling out
    another hole. Or do yellowjacket nests have more than one entrance?
    
    Anyone had any experiences with eradicating these pests? I've heard of
    pouring gasoline down the holes, but I don't want to poison the ground
    like that. If there is a pest-control notesfile around I could try
    there if someone could provide a pointer.
    
    Help! I have to mow the lawn again real soon.
    
    
    Whit.
    
    

A trick I've heard (that I've never tried myself) is to take a clear 2
liter soda bottle, cut the bottom off, leave cap on, and place one over
each of their holes.  Be sure they can't sneak out the bottom.

The idea is if you simply block the hole, they realize this and just dig a new
one.  But the clear bottles make it so they don't realize their hole is
blocked, and they simply buzz around in the bottle and eventually die.
A little pesticide in there will help with that.

-Mike

> But the clear bottles make it so they don't realize their hole is blocked,
> and they simply buzz around in the bottle and eventually die.

	    I would think banging their little bee faces against the plastic
	a few dozen times might give it away.  8^* 
	    If you were a whole lot further north, I'd say wait until it got
	cold and dig an access into the nest so you could blast them good!
	Bees get pretty sluggish in colder weather.

					Tim

Ground dwelling Yellow Jackets are in and out of their hole all day, but SELDOM 
in the evening or night.  Pick up a can of "get em with a stream from 10 feet
away", and a 6-pack of homebrew and a lawn chair. Plop down near the nest about 
an hour before dusk and wait.  Strenuoulsy resist the urge to go over to the 
nest and "knock on their door".  Those streams are great for 1 or 2, but not a 
fast-gun weapon for a swarm.

I firmly believe the only reason Yellow Jackets exist is that God wanted to 
find out what it takes to move this particular pacifist to genocide.

Luck

    I've had good results in the past by pouring 1 cup (8 fl. oz) or so
    of Gasoline down the hole followed by a match.   It's probably not
    safe, nor is it environmentally correct, but it sure did work!
    
    It didn't kill the critters that weren't at home (better to do
    it at night, I'd guess), but it did kill off the hive.   Works for
    bumblebees too!

    I can sympathize - I've always had to call in an exterminator (who
    wears a bee suit!) to get rid of ground hives, but all of this year's
    "flying hazards" built above ground and could be wiped out by spraying
    the entrances at night when all the little monsters are home.  I'm
    allergic to the damn things so I have to get my non-allergic spouse to
    do the honors.  You have to really saturate the hive with the poison,
    because if you do not manage to kill the queen, who is well-protected
    inside the thing, the bugs will be back in just a few days, as soon as
    the queen repopulates the hive.  I don't like spraying poison all over
    everything either, but these monsters have GOT TO GO!
    
    One of my friends took a direct apporach to a hive in a tree one year. 
    it was right near his back deck and so was a hazard.  One very chilly
    evening he got up on a ladder with a hose in one hand and a propane
    torch in the other hand, and burned the hive up!  I wasn't there at the
    time...  and I sure wouldn't reccomend this technique!  He did not get
    stung, so I guess he had the element of surprise in his favor.  After
    the hive was history, he put out the fire in his tree with the hose,
    climbed down, and cleaned up the hive debris below.  Must have been
    exciting to watch, from a safe distance!
    
    /Charlotte

    A friend and I, back in what passed for my wild youth, once got
    rid of a hive of yellowjackets by stuffing a burning red flare,
    tied to the end of a long pole, into the entrance.

    I tried 2 things...
    
    1. leave a running lawnmower over the hole for a couple of hours.
    
    	Pissed them off real good but only killed a few.
    
    2. waited until fall and then poured a few 5 gal. pails of boiling
       water down the hole.
    
    	Worked great no more pest...also no more grass. reseeded next 
    	spring all ok...
    
    
    Brian V
    

    Just two weeks ago I discovered a YJ nest. It was discovered it by setting 
    up the tent for the wedding reception - hammering a big stake into the 
    ground 4 feet from their nest sure does make them mad. Fortunately, they
    got the guy from the rental place, and not me. Unfortunately, he got stung
    about 10 times, and we had to pluck another thirty or so out of his
    shirt, his pants, his socks... 

    The wedding was the next day. I *had* to get rid of them *instantly*.
    The nest was right next to where the bar would be.

    What worked (for me): Apply 1 wheelbarrow full of dirt onto the hole. 
    Poured on 2 cups of gasoline. Ignited it, and waited for it to burn out.
    Then thoroughly soaked a 2' diamater around the hole with gasoline - enough
    that I felt the gas penetrated farther than the bees could build. Then
    sprayed the entire area with yard guard.

    This may have been over-kill. (I would have used a small thermonuclear 
    device if I had had one.) But it worked. There were some bees flying
    around it as much as three or four days later, "locked out". Then that was
    that.

    Kevin

    As stated earlier, not environmentally correct, and a little bit
    dangeroous (but danger can be minimized by being careful) - pour 1
    cup of gasoline down the hole. Wait about 3-4 minutes. Ignite
    carefully - ensuring that any gas containers are FAR removed. It will
    burn for about 30 minutes. The little yellow SOB's that just stung your
    kids WILL be dead. Worked 3 out of 3 times so far.

Maybe still not environmentally sound, but certainly better than pouring
gas down a hole...safer too!

I've had success by sprinkling a powder insecticide at the entrance. This 
method takes a day or two but seems to work. The bees entering the hive 
carry the powder in on their little feet, thereby infecting and killing
everyone else.

						Mark

We just discovered YJ's entering the outside of our house, via a tiny
hole where the chimney butts the house. Most of the solutions so far
wouldn't be too groovey in my case. Is there a liquid pesticide I can
shoot into and around the hole that will have the same effect as the
powder mentioned here?

Thanks,

Art

    I was going to suggested powdered or granulated Diazinon.  It says on
    the container to wait until night fall, and empty the entire contents
    (of canister size, obviously!) down the hole.  Good luck!  I really
    hate those things!!
    
    
    Susan

>We just discovered YJ's entering the outside of our house, via a tiny
>hole where the chimney butts the house. 

    We just had a similar experience; a ground nest in the garden next
to the front door (like, 4 inches from the front door; it was lucky
no one was stung before).

    We bought some of that 10-yd hornet spray, mentioned earlier, and waited
until almost dusk.  My husband then sprayed it down the hole.  Some 
stragglers came back to the nest after that, which he then sprayed individually.
They didn't seem to care that he was there, nor that he was picking off
their nestmates.

    Now, we did use 2 cans of this junk, but there's been no signs of
the little devils since.

	    - Lorri

    To the person who discovered the YJ's entering the house from the
    outside. 
    Had that problem too. Blasted 'em with the 10 foot spray from the
    outside. Thoroughly poisoned all areas by their entrance hole. Soooo,
    the little critters decided they better make for themselves a back
    door. Which they did, by eating through the sheet rock and entering my
    dining room. 
    
    Closing off the front door is not a problem when the front door is in
    the ground. Different issue when it's in your house.

    Has this been a banner year for these things or what?  I have
    them on my CAR every day!  It seems they like the sap from
    the pine trees over the driveway.  Of course my SOs car, which 
    is dark red doesn't have a bee on it.  I've counted upwards of
    30 on my grey car (from the safety of my house, mind you) at
    high noon.  Have I just got a weird crop of bees, or is this
    a common problem this time of year?  I haven't seen them flying
    from anywhere in particular (of course I'd need binoculars, since
    that's about as close as I'll get), should I be looking for a nest?
    At any rate, the tree service people will be removing the pine trees, 
    thus solving that part of the problem.   I don't remember having bees
    on my car last year, however, and as I am allergic to these critters, I 
    think I might remember seeing 10 or more at a time.... :-)
    
    Mary-Michael

    They get on my car, too - it's dark blue.  One time a year or two ago,
    they started building a nest on it over the weekend (I didn't drive the
    car for 2 days so they thought it was part of the scenery?) - I got one
    sting getting rid of them that time!  So far they haven't tried that
    trick this year, but it sure has been a good year for them!  The
    reaction gets worse and worse every time I get stung, and I am the one
    who gets saddled with most of the outdoor work, so I get really
    paranoid about these damn insects.
    
    /Charlotte

    Any powder insecticide containing Sevin, will do the trick. About 
    1/2 cup down the hole ought to do it.

This summer while cleaning the gutters I decided to take apart one of the
downspouts to make sure it wasn't clogged in the bend. A yellow jacket appeared
and I didn't think much of it until another and another appeared. They were
living in the downspout!. I was up on a stepladder and in my haste to get down
and run away I slipped and fell on the grass and almost broke my thumb (nurse
said that I did pull some ligaments though). 

Fortunately it was about time for my quarterly exterminator visit so I called
and had him take care of it for me. He sure did spray the heck out of that nest!
The red downspout was white when I got home that day. Not a sign of the little
beasts after that.

Steve B.

Re: amounts of powder.

I've had very good success with MUCH smaller amounts than have been mentioned
here. I would guess about 1/4 cup. I use the ones with the "shaker" top and
just sprinkle some around the entrance hole. Seems to have worked for me
(at least 3 times over the years)
							Mark

>                     <<< Note 5425.12 by RAGMOP::FARINA >>>
>                                 -< Diazinon? >-

>    I was going to suggested powdered or granulated Diazinon.  It says on
>    the container to wait until night fall, and empty the entire contents
>    (of canister size, obviously!) down the hole.  Good luck!  I really
>    hate those things!!
    
	Bingo!

	    I discovered this while treating the lawn for grubs. I use liquid
	diazinon w/ water in a lawn sprayer. It even says on the label NOT
	to spray around bees/wasps etc. as this stuff is extremely deadly to 
	'um. You don't even need to hit the nest. Just soak an area close to 
	it and the fumes will do the trick.

	....jc
	<who's allergic to the little pests>

    When using poisons, be sure to use no more than the amount listed on
    the label.  If that doesn't work, well...  But the discussions in this
    string show why some regions find their groundwater is now getting
    contaminated from household poisons, rather than industrial pollution.
    Lots of people faced with a personal threat tend to assume the more
    poison the better.  Of course, it's the people who poison a whole
    *yard* because of a localized grub or insect problem who really 
    cause the damage.  But it's worth keeping in mind that a lot of these
    poisons aren't just dangerous to the insects they are poured on.
    
    	Enjoy,
    	Larry
    
    PS:  Yes, I've got a yellojacket nest, too.  Either mine were wusses
    or they were laying low -- I'll go back to see if I really got them.

    Guess I was lucky with mine, some years back, because they were where I
    wanted to establish a compost heap.  Filled the (6 cu. ft) wheelbarrow
    with dirt and waited for nightfall...
    
    The following spring I moved the dirt out of the way and set up shop
    for composting.
    
    Dick

    I had a YJ nest in my attic.  Lucky for me, I read this note.  I poured
    a gallon of gas down my ridge vent, waited an hour and threw a match. 
    I have a new roof now.
    
    Just kidding, but some of the replies here.... I have tears running
    down my cheeks!

    Sure you've got a new roof, but what about the YJ's???

    Ever heard of *fire* flies?   :-)

    You don't need to ignite the gasoline. Just throw gas on the bees and it
    kills them instantly. 

    Oh, a lot of good you are.  I blew off my roof and along comes Mr.
    KnowItAll.
    
    
    :-)

    
    
    	I keep getting yellow jackets inside one particular window in the
    front of the house. There doesn't seem to be an entrance from the
    screen but who knows. Where are they coming from ? It's a new house...
    are they inside the wall? Maybe set up shop during construction??
    
        Has anyone bombed (RAID) their attics ?
    
                                                                     

    Reply .23 has the solution if they are in the attic. I haven't tried it
    (yet), but I'm sure it would work if they are in your walls also :*)

>    	I keep getting yellow jackets inside one particular window in the
>    front of the house. There doesn't seem to be an entrance from the
>    screen but who knows. Where are they coming from ? It's a new house...
>    are they inside the wall? Maybe set up shop during construction??
    
	   Is this house in Shrewsbury?  A friend of mine bought a new
	house with big gaps in the eaves; plenty of room for them YB's
	to come and go.  Check all around the house and see if you can 
	find and easy access routes.  The bees may be in the attic and
	are thinking of expanding... into your house.

					Tim 

    
     	The house is in Dracut...as of this week I'm still getting them
    once in a while......the wife is flippin....
    	Maybe I'll release one of those "bombs" in the attic...

    I have been having problem with wasps every year except winter time.
    They nest on the outside corner of the screen porch. It is always
    a hugh nest and at the same spot. They keep rebuilding the nest after
    I killed them or knocked down the nest. They have caused some damage
    on that piece of the wood where the nest hangs. I plan to fix up my
    screen porch and replace damaged woods this spring. I am wondering
    that why wasps keep coming back to the same spot every year. Are
    there something there attracting them? Is there anything I could do to
    prevent them from coming back while I am going to replace the damaged
    woods anyway?
    
    
    Thanks.
    
    -Shuhua
    

    I'm no expert, but I've heard that if you rub soap on the wood,
    it makes it difficult for them to attach the nest to the wood.
    So, get a bar of soap and rub it on the area before they get there.

I think I remember hearing that amonia keeps them from building a nest in the 
same location.

Dave

re .335:

Yes they keep coming back to the same spot because they sense there was a
nest here before.  Therefore it must be a good spot for a nest this year.

    ...actually..there is a residue that they put on the foundation of
    wherever they happen to build their nest...even if you knock the thing
    down it's still  there but you can't see it..if you want to be sure
    they don't build there again....scrub the area with some industrial
    strength cleaner and that will remove the residue...they can't smell it
    so they won't come back to it year after year.....BTW...this info is in
    here somewhere already....................../k

A little warm weather and out come the hornets this morning!  I 
discovered one emerging from the bathroom exhaust fan similar to a few
replies back.  Apparently I got them riled up when I actually
used the fan!  

I used duct tape to close up the fan openings to the bathroom and
spray killed the 3 that got out.

I don't do bugs.  Will an exterminator deal with the nest
inside the line?  Or will a carpenter re-doing the exhaust line 
deal with the nest?  I suppose I'll find out when I call. wondering
which one to start off with!

(or, do I never use the fan again? -)  )

The fan vents out to the soffit.  The outside opening is screened well.
Inside the attic, the line, which I think is like dryer vent, is 
covered with insulation.  What's the likely entrance point?

Anyone have any experiences/recommendations for this?