Conference 7.286::home_work

    You need new jets, a regulator and low pressure hose.
    
    I would call several propane suppliers and ask if they can
    supply new jets.  The regulator and hose can be purchased
    at many locations, including the propane supplier and camping
    suppliers.
    
    If all fails, write the grill manufacture, they probably
    make a similar unit for propane use and can supply the few
    parts that are different as repair items.
    
    - gerry

    
    
    		There is no 'keyword' for barbarque or grill so will plunge
    	into the unknown.  we have a new CharBroil Grill that has porcelin
    	grates.  Since this is our first big expensive grill (We always
    	bought a hand held Sunbeam or Habatchi about every two years) we
    	don't know whether one washes the cooking grates after every use,
    	once a month or what?  Who has one that they use a lot and is
    	willing to share their personal cleaning habits with the general
    	public(with regards to the grill of course)?  what do you use?
    	Do you have any 'tricks' to getting the gunk off?  Oven cleaner?
    	Babo? Draino(aids in digestion next time you use it I understand)?
    		Well, we cleaned ours the first time but have now used it
    	about three times without cleaning it.  Any ideas?
    
    	Gordon...
    

    I just leave the grill on high for several minutes after I am done
    cooking.  This turns all of the greasy leftovers on the grate to
    charcoal, much like a self cleaning oven.  Then I wipe it off with
    a wire brush that was sold for this purpose. 
    
    -Joe, whose smoke detector doubles as a cooking timer

    is what I am going to try, next time we activate the self-cleaning
    oven in our stove. 

    
    
     I've heard if you brush a thin coat of (cheap) Vegetable oil onto
    the grates prior actual cook-time this seems to help keep down residue
    build-up.
     
     Personally, I haven't tried this yet, but it may help make a
    difference. I plan to experiment with this the next time I have
    a barbecue.

    I too have a Charbroil with the porcelain grates.  They really are
    much nicer than the steel ones.  Anyway, after cooking, keep the heat
    on and use a wire brush to scub the stuff off the rack.  There is no
    need to wash or really clean it well.  By just scrubbing it while it is
    hot, you will easily clean off the chunks and grease the grill at the
    same time.
    
    --wch--

	re: oiling the grates.

	Yes, I do this, I use my old motor oil :-)   ( couldn't resist!)

	Seriously, I do, and it seems to help with keeping burgers and
	such from sticking to the grill, so that when you flip 'em they
	don't tear up.

		Josh

    I've also heard that preheating the grill to be fairly hot helps
    prevent sticking, but the only time this has worked for me was when I
    got sidetracked, so that the grill had been preheated for at least ten
    minutes.  I'm not sure I want to waste that much gas.  The vegetable oil
    seems to work fine.
    
    I do use the CLEAN setting on our grill (just a notch higher than HI),
    and it works ok.  I try to be careful with this, because I have noticed
    the knob on the tank getting hot when I do it.  
    
    I've also noticed some nicks on the racks, presumably due to the brute
    force I used when I first got the grill.  The metal underneath is now
    rusting through.  Is it possible to fix these?  If not, can replacement
    porcelain racks in appropriate sizes be found?  There doesn't seem to
    be all that much standardization on the rack sizes.
    
       Gary

   I clean my gas grill about twice a year by doing the following 
procedure:


1. Find 4 golfball size rocks.

2. Lift grates turn 90 degrees and lay them onto (touching) lava rock.

3  Cover lava rocks and grates with quality aluminum foil. Allow foil 
   to run up the sides of the lower half of the cast aluminum base.

4. Place your #1 found rocks onto aluminum foil in the four corners of 
   the grill base to hold it in place.
   
5. Run grill on high for 20 minutes or so.

6. Shut off gas and DO NOT OPEN HOOD.

7. Let cool about 2 hours.

8. Remove #1 found rocks and aluminum foil. Observe lots of white ash 
   (as if someone dumped many ash trays into your grill)

9. Step #10 is a either/or... no need to do both! 

     10A Put grates back in original position. Wash out ash with
         a garden hose. Reheat grill to Med. and hold for a few 
         minutes to drive off water. Leave cover up to air dry.

     10B. Remove Lava Rock, grates, and burner. Vacumm out 
          the base. Reassemble. Test.

11. Your done. Work time = 1/2 - 3/4 hour. Elapsed time 3 hours. 

      If you try (and like) this method, an additional idea is to get
a tight fitting piece of sheet steel to fit over the grates while the
grates are in the cooking position instead of the aluminum foil over
the grates on top of the rocks. If this is done, your goal is to
obtain 99% coverage. 


Bill. 

       I see a place advertised in the Globe sometimes that sells parts
    for grills. If I spot it I'll enter it here.
                                                Denny

    CharBroil has an excellent mail order parts department.  
    I have bought replacement grates, burners, cover handle
    (I dropped the sliding door I was replacing on the grill
    and broke the handle).  Anyway their prices are not bad
    and they delivery in about a week via UPS.  There is a 
    postage and handling fee.  
    
    They also put you on a mailing list for their catalog.
    This is great even if you don't have CharBroil grill
    since I think it had all the sizes on such things 
    as replacement grills, burners, and fancy add-ons.
    
    If your interested I'll dig up their phone number.
    (Caution:  When you call they also try to sell you
    things like lava rocks, or what ever that they are
    running at special prices.  Sometimes they are a good
    deal and they don't do a real hard sell but it is a 
    little pushy if you ask me)
    
    -JFK-

    
    Also see Topic 71 in BARNUM::CATALOGS, which discusses replacement
    parts, and has the address for CharBroil.
    
    Fred

    This is what I do,
    
    1- scrub scum off grills with wire brush 
    
    2- turn on BOTH burners on hi for about 15 minutes, this will get
    the whole mess quite hot and burn off all grease and grime that
    has fallen on lava rocks.
    
    3- slap on food, the grills are not hot enough to sear the meat,
    whatever it is (even hamburgers) making these nice marks that are
    a peculiarity to outdoor cooking, then I close the cover to keep
    it as hot as possible, this even prevents flare-ups because there
    is not enough air to sustain high flames.  Doing this keeps the
    cooking time as short as possible, keeping the meat juicy.
    
    4- after cooking time, turn everything off.
    
    PS don't do this with chicken (unless it's skewered breast meat)
    it will just burn to a crisp because it's too fatty.
    
    Jean
    

    I'm not sure about porcelain grates, but for us peons who still
    use little portable charcoal grills, the best method I have found
    (not having "burners" to turn on "hi"  ;^)  ) is to put your grills
    in a plastic garbage bag, sprinkle or spray them with undiluted
    household ammonia, and twistie the bag shut.  Leave it in the sun
    for a few hours, then hose off.  (This works for oven racks, etc.,
    too.)  The sun is a factor in this process, so don't pick a rainy
    day to try it -- the results are not satisfactory.  If you leave
    it long enough, this method usually eliminates all the crud.  If
    not-so-patient, like me, there may be tiny bits left -- but the
    metal is shiny like new.
    
    I have a little indoor electric grill.  That one I spray (over the
    sink) with Pam cooking spray -- then run it through the dishwasher
    afterward.  
    
    Sherry
    

    I put my grates in our self-cleaning oven over the weekend. I worked
    fine!

    On a somewhat related note.  Is there any reason that I can't
    use a propane BBQ grill with regular lighted charcoal (with tank 
    and associated gadgetry detached)?
    	Linda

    The jets which release the gas to be burned will clog with ash from
    the used charcoal and make it difficult to convert back to a gas
    fired grill.  In theory the jets/holes could be cleaned with toothpicks
    or wire in the occasion that you wanted to use gas in the future.

    You mentioned removing associated gadgetry so if you removed the
    gas jet distribution system completely, then I see no reason that
    you would have any problem other than lack of ventilation causing
    poor burn for the charcoal.
    

    I don't know....Most gas grill bases are made out of cast aluminum.
    Most charcoal grill are made out of some sort of steel/iron. I'd worry
    about overheating the Al and warping it. Don't forget that in the
    bottom of most gas grills are very large slots to get good updraft,
    this will cause your coals to get REAL hot....China Syndrome.

	There are parts for gas grills in K-mart and some of the larger
    hardware stores. Although my grates do not look shiny and new, they
    still work fine. I pre-heat them and use a wire brush prior to using
    them (I like the black marks ;-). I use about 1 tank of LP a year so 
    I'm not real concerned about the waste of gas (at $7 a tank).
    
    	I don't believe that the racks are the expensive part. The
    expensive part seems to be the burner. These seem to run from $35
    to $55 so this to me is what you want to watch out for.
    
    BTW - I just replaced my first burner this year after 8+ years use
    and I use my grill year round (as in rain, snow, etc.)

    	Ray

    	The easiest thing that comes to mind is to just buy a cheap-o
    pan or cookie sheet to put the charcoal on. It should make clean-up
    a lot easier too.
    
    	Ray

    Anyone know where I can buy a new burner for my Sumbeam Gas grill?
    
    I have had no luck at all the dept stores in town.  I live in
    Milford MA.  
    
    Anyone know if Spag's may have them?
    
    thanks, Mark.

    
    see topic 71 in HPSTEK::CATALOGS for mailorder sources...

    You can try AAA Appliance in Framingham on RT 135.  I got one for
    my grill there a few years back. (879-4006) Or try Atlantic Appliance
    in Needham, again, I've gotten parts from them.  (449-8466)
    
    Ken (no connection to the above, except as a customer)

Or Lechmere.  Or just about any larger hardware store.  You may not get
Sunbeam brand, but you'll get something that will fit and work.

			Steve

    thanks for all the good suggestions...
    
    I am going to try Spag's first, since I'll be near there tomorrow
    morning.
    
    Mark.

    Well, SPAG's universal burners did not match up with my Sunbeam.
                                                               
    Found a place on rt. 20 in Sudbury called West Sport, just a little
    shop that sells gas grills and accessories, and live bait.
    
    Cost $40, works good.		Thanks, Mark.
    

    
    	We "had" a plastic grill cleaning brush that my wife insisted on
    	keeping inside the grill - on the grate.
    
    	Well guess what.  thats right I cooked it.
    
    	I dumped the lava rocks, scraped off all the remaining plastic
    	I could then I turned on the grill for 2 hours.
    
    	I dont smell burning plastic any more.  Will I have a problem
    	with plastic taste.  Do I need to replace the grates - or the
    	whole grill.
    
    	tom
    

    Couldn't find a better note to place this so here goes:
    Every one likes the taste of charcoal grilled foods - and the way 
    they're cooked.  I m looking for something that could duplicate the 
    very high temperatures of a charcoal/wood grill/ barbeque without the
    hassle - ie. a propane/gas grill.  It should burn hot - like a furnace
    ;).  Are there any commercial grills out there that will do this?  What
    about burners? ( Could retrofit one or build into homebuilt barrel
    grill)
    

Re: .7

Why do you think that a standard propane grill won't do the same job?
The taste of charcoal grilled food comes not from the temperature but rather
the smoke caused by the drippings burning on the coals.  You get the same
thing in a gas grill, and they can be just as hot as charcoal.

				Steve

 Re: -.1
 Yes, you re right about that - but experience has shown me that for the same
items cooked on a gas vs coals is that the hotter temps sear the food, etc.
Flavor wasn't the word I should have used.  Cook two identical items on each 
and I will tell you which is which.  I haven't seen a gas grill which will allow
the hotter temps. I have used products which mimic the taste of coals/hardwoods.
Sigh.... Guess I ve got to stick with the Kingsford then.

    One of the reasons charcoal grills sear the food is because as your
    waiting for the coals to reach cooking temp. the grill itself is
    getting hot.  With gas grills there is no wait.  You light the burners
    and throw whatever on the still cold grill.  If you wait for the grill
    to get hot then you can get the same searing effect.
    
    George

  I've found that if you have a gas grill with much less than 40,000
  BTU/hr burner capacity, you won't ever get the searing you get on a
  charcoal grill, no matter how long you wait for it to heat up. There
  certainly are gas grills that deliver as good results as charcoal, but
  they have very high heat burners, and are usually expensive. And you
  do have to wait for them to heat the rocks and grates to get that
  performance, which can take longer than charcoal.

  Having played with lots of them, I'll stick with my Weber with
  Kingsford charcoal. Even using an electric charcoal starter, it only
  takes 25 minutes from plug in to steak on -- the same or less than
  waiting for a good gas grill to get hot enough to get similar results.

    You're always supposed to let the grill heat for at least 10 minutes.
    Sunbeam says that can be 5 minutes with its "Flavorizer plates".
    It gets very hot in there!
    
    			Steve

  It's been my experience that the instructions for most gas grills
  (e.g., 10 minutes of warmup) are *way* too optimistic if you're hoping
  to get results equivalent to charcoal for grilling meat. A half hour
  is more like it. I haven't used a Sunbeam with "flavorizer plates",
  and wouldn't doubt that it's faster than other grills, but am still
  skeptical that after only five minutes, it could equal charcoal
  performance on meat. If it can, then it's one heck of a great grill
  (and the price?).

I've never noticed a problem getting the grill hot enough to sear the
meat within 10 minutes.  And we have a cheap grill.

The problem I have is searing the other side.  Since I mostly cook 
chicken, I need to turn down the heat on the grill, lest the outside burn
before the inside is cooked.  Thus, when it's time to flip it, the second
side doesn't get seared.  The obvious solution just occurred to me: flip
immediately after searing, then continue to cook on lower heat.

Now, can anyone suggest the best way to prevent sticking, preferably without
extra oil?

   Gary

P. S.  Judging by the latest research to hit the media, we should all be
putting away our grills, and boiling our meat, to reduce carcinogens.  I won't
be that extreme, but I do change our lava rocks yearly, and I'm sorely tempted
to try out the newer "Wok on your grill Rack".

    Re: .13
    
    My experience so far with the Sunbeam is that 5 minutes is suficient
    for good performance.  Since it doesn't have lava rocks, there's less
    mass to heat up.  The plates get very hot and do a good job on
    searing.
    
    Re: .14
    
    The usual advice on searing is, indeed, to sear on high heat
    first, both sides, then cook.  As for sticking, you can get
    porcelain grids which reduce sticking a lot.  Otherwise, let the
    grill heat thoroughly before you put on the food.
    
    
    I paid $299 for my big Sunbeam grill (model 89509).  I looked at
    many brands and styles, and felt that this was the best grill for
    the money that met my needs.  I'm happy with it so far.
    
    			Steve

    When I am heating up my grill, I cover the metal grill itself with a
    piece of aluminum foil.  The idea is to keep the heat in the lava rocks
    and the grill instead of heating the air.  My cheap grill does not have
    a lid.

RE: < Note 3953.14 by TOKLAS::feldman "Larix decidua, var. decify" >


>Now, can anyone suggest the best way to prevent sticking, preferably without
>extra oil?

Spray the grate before you heat it up with Pan-Pal, Pam or, any
of the other non-stick sprays available for your kitchen. 

Tim 

    I never have a sticking problem but then the closest I ever come to
    cleaning the grates is a quick brush down with a wire brush. The grate
    needs to be seasoned just like a cast iron pan.
    
    My coleman get hot enough to sear the meat in 5 minutes with the
    greatest of ease.
    
    -j

    re: .13
    
    I used to have that problem with chicken.  Now I boil the chicken to
    cook the inside and put it on the grill to 'cook' the outside.
    
    Now, I've always got barbecued chicken that tastes great and is done in
    the middle.

>>        <<< Note 3953.19 by FREDW::MATTHES "half a bubble off plumb" >>>
>>                         -< boil, then grill chicken >-

	An alternative that I've used successfully for BBQ chicken on
	the grill is to wrap the chicken in at least 2 layers of
	tin foil ( adding BBQ sauce first ) and then grill for 45-60 
	minutes, turning ever 10 minutes or so.  Sometimes, spots on 
	the chicken will still burn but it tastes great!  Watch out
	when turning as if a bunch of the grease leaks out of the 
	tin foil all at once,  you could have flames 3 feet high for
	a few seconds!  ( I know and I'm glad I was wearing one of those
	long mittens! )
	
	Garry

    Re: .19 and .20
    
    Microwave chicken for 30 minutes.  Drain off the fat.  Then put on your
    barbeque sauce or RedHot and barbeque until crisp.
    
    Elaine

I *thought* I opened HOME_WORK, but I must have opened COOKS.  Hey, wait a
sec, I don't have COOKS in my notebook.  What gives?

While Gerald is summoning the notes police to close this down, I'll just sneak
in here to say that you should always cook chicken -- parboil or microwave --
before grilling it.  The cooking is to cook the meat.  The grilling is to 
put a coating on the outside.  If you try to cook the meat by grilling, you'll
either burn the outside or end up with rare chicken (ugh).

  I resisted this discussion until:

>       <<< Note 3953.23 by CLOSET::VAXUUM::T_PARMENTER "Hillbilly Cat" >>>

> The cooking is to cook the meat.  The grilling is to 
> put a coating on the outside.  If you try to cook the meat by grilling, you'll
> either burn the outside or end up with rare chicken (ugh).

  Negatory!! I do it both ways (cooking beforehand or not), depending on
  how much time I have. If I have the time to stand at the grill with a
  cold beer for 1/2 hour and watch it, it's much better to do it that
  way. I baste it with bbq sauce every time I turn it, and never let it
  get badly burnt (this is possible with a Weber, where you can move a
  piece to the outside away from the highest heat). The result is that
  the skin is crispy but not burnt, and the meat is tender and permeated
  with the flavor of the sauce. The main difference when cooking it
  first is that the meat has much less flavor of the sauce. This can
  sometimes be fixed by marinating for several hours, but that doesn't
  work well with all sauces, especially tomato catchup based sauces.
  Full grilling is still my favorite.

  It's always possible to completely and perfectly cook very fatty foods
  on a grill. You just need the time and the right equipment (and a
  little experience). My opinion is that the effort is worth it.

    set had/moderator
    
    Ok, Ok.  If it had been a minor rathole I could have overlooked it.  If
    the note had come back on track by itself, I could have overlooked it. 
    But as it stands now, I will have to ask that contributors please
    refrain from any furhter replies about techniques of cooking chicken on
    the grill.
    
    Please feel free to discuss grills and associated accesories but post
    your wonderful recipies and techinques in COOKS.  Thank you.
    
    Set hat/moderator=off
    

   Ok.  Now that we re back on track, I found that a company called
Ducane makes "pro-line" type grills.  If anyone is interested, they
can be reached at 1-800-DUCANES.   ( I answered my own question!;)

  Interesting. I just happened to notice some Ducane gas grills in a
  store recently (I think it was K-Mart), and they looked particularly
  cheesy. I don't suppose they make several lines of grill products?

Lechmere also sells Ducane.  The previous time Consumer Reports rated
grills, Ducane came out on top.  This last time, they were near the bottom.
Ducane grills seem to be priced at about double what they're worth, from
my observation.

				Steve

  Hmmm, that sort of thing happens when a company just does badge
  engineering, and they switch supplier. But it also happens when
  Consumer Reports decides that there's something they now don't like
  about it. For example, the previous report on minivans rated the
  Caravan/Voyager on top. Not much has changed, but now it's on the
  bottom, mainly because they found out about reliability problems with
  the 4sp overdrive automatic transmission. I wonder which is the reason
  with the Ducane grills?

    
    Has anyone had any success restoring a rusting gas grill back to
    life. I have heard that petroleum jelly and wire brushing will
    do a slow but adequate job. Are there any other remedies. The
    black iron style grill is the type we have. Would there be any
    paints that are safe to use on the exterior ?
    
    Thanks for your replies !
    
    Mike Leary
    

    Petroleum jelly??? Maybe Naval Jelly...???
    
    Edd

If it's fairly sturdy, you might try taking it to someone who does sandblasting.
I once took something to a company that makes tombstones to get cleaned up.
Worked out ok.

    As far as the outside goes - I used a high temp enamel - from h'ware
    store. Mine is matt brown and matched almost exactly with the old
    paint. The casing was aluminium though - not iron - so there wasn't a
    rust problem. I tried to use the silver high temp paint on the grill
    bars but it wouldn't stick to the remains of the rust. Make sure the
    grill works because youhave to run it to cure the paint.
    
    Rod

There is such stuff as stove black that you use like shoe polish, and there is
also black paint made specifically for what you want to do.

Pete

    Try your local plumbing or stove shop.  The products used to
    revitalize a wood stove should work...stove polish or high-
    temp paint.
    
    

You don't have to go to a specialty shop to get high-temp paint.  Any decent
hardware store or home center should have it.

    To remove rust, try some penetrating oil and one of those green
    "Scotchbrite" scouring pads.  They do an amazing job.

    
    
    Thank you all very much ! Tis the season to do B-B-Q !
    

    Just get a large, double burner propane unit.  I happen to have a
    Sunbeam, but the right technique works on any brand.
    
    Heat the grill for 10 minutes, then turn OFF one side and sear whatever
    you're cooking.  Meanwhile, the other burner is still on high.  Now,
    after one side is seared, turn over the meat and place on the other
    burner.  Turn on the original burner, turn off the second one.  You can
    go back and forth until you're satisfied with the searing.  Yet, no
    burnt meat because there's never a flame below it.  
    
    Now, when seared to your satisfaction, simply leave the meat over the
    unlit burner, while the lit burner is on high.  Close cover, check
    until done to your needs.  Never a burnt piece of meat.
    
    I use this method on everything, including hotdogs, hamburger, pork,
    chicken, steak, etc.
    
    Lee

    New question for all us Mass. gas grill chefs.....

    My son took our 1977 propane tank to be filled Sat. and was refused. 
The Taylor Rental place told him the tank was a 1977 tank and therefore 
over the 12 year limit for refilling. It still holds a charge tightly, is 
slightly rusted but nothing serious, and is otherwise seemingly 
serviceable. I am not sure why the legislature would ban 12 year old tanks 
except as another example of protecting all of us from the dumb tricks of a 
few who have tanks in poor shape.

    Anyone know the details behind this 12 year limit?

    Thanks.

    	Vic H

    I saw a sign that indicated something similar a few months ago.  But it
    said something like "must be inspected after 12 years nad every 5 years
    thereafter."  I was travelling at the time so the sign was "somewhere
    in North America" but at the time I just said "Yuh, sure, how are they
    going to know?"
    
    Call some major dealer like Suburban Propane or something...
    
    ed

    The date of manufacture is stamped onto the tank.  After a certain
    number of years tanks must be hydro tested and the date the test
    was performed is stamped onto the tank.  Since the cost of hydro
    testing is significant it's usually cheaper and easier to trash the
    tank.  (as always, this may very by state)

	Has anybody converted a LP grill to natural gas? I have a Char-Broil 
7000 series LP gas grill and there is a gas line going out to the deck with a 
quick disconnect. I've called the gas company and they "think" it could be 
done and "maybe" there are kits out there to convert it. I've called a few 
places that carry grill parts and all they carry is the hose to connect it to 
the gas line.

	Thanks,

	Mike

    I saw a grill at Lechemere that runs of either LP or Natural Gas so I
    guess it can be done.

    Call Char-Broil directly.  They sell all kinds of grill parts and 
    accessories.  They also seemed very knowledgeable, at least about their
    own grills.  I am sure they can answer this question and let you know,
    as well as try to sell you, any needed parts for the conversion.

    I converted one about ten years ago when I was living on the
    west coast.  Don't recall exactly what parts were needed, but I
    do remember it was not a big deal.  Seems to me the gas "jet"
    was different and maybe the regulator.   I found the parts at
    a  store specializing in grills, so keep looking.

    When I bought my Char-Broil back in 1978, it came with 2 sets of jets,
    one for LP and one for Natural Gas. Your best bet is to drop the
    manufacturer a line.
    
    Eric

    	Thanks folks, looks like I'll have to find Char-Broil's number and
    give them a call. I've called 5 places so far with no luck. This unit
    was set up for LP, so it only came with one jet. But at least now I
    know it can or at least it has been done and I'm not chasing my tail.
    	
    Mike

    take the tank to one of those places that you exchange your tank
    with one that is already full . you seen those before, in those
    cages.. it is more expensive to get it filled that way , but at least
    you will get a newer tank that way.. the guy at the store told me
    that they test each tank prior to refilling , and sandblast and
    repaint any tank that needs it.
    

re .10/.11:

I asked a propane deliveryman about this, and it is true a tank must be
inspected after 12 years, and then every 5 years thereafter.  I didn't ask
whether this was a state or a Fed. requirement, but I suspect it's Fed. (DOT) 

-Mike

The closest I saw in Keywords was Appliances - cooking.
If there is a gas grille topic, forgive my insolence and move appropriately.

My gas grille is spewing yellow flame; it should spew blue flame.
I've taken it apart and put it back together with a cleaning.

The progression is Tank, hose, pipe, nozzle, flame spreader.
The flame spreader (I can't think of its name) seems to be 
in good shape, but maybe the holes are too wide now?

I don't want to buy a new grille, if I can find one now, but I
do like to grille all year 'round.

If anyone can help me, HOME_WORK can!

Mark

    Sounds as though the air/gas mix is wrong.  Check the air intake
    holes, wherever they are, and if the mix is adjustable try playing
    around with it.

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Paul [Moderator]

>  Sounds as though the air/gas mix is wrong.  Check the air intake
>   holes, wherever they are, and if the mix is adjustable try playing
>    around with it.

At the base of the frame spreader (where it connects to the nozzle)
it has an adjustable intake.  I have had it all open and almost all 
closed, but the flame spews out yellow at the top.  I'm going to 
examine the flame spreader a little more closely this evening.

I had kielbasa in a fry pan last night, and really missed grilling it.
And I want a nice steak soon, too!

Maybe all I need is to replace the flame spreader. (I hope, I hope).

>I had kielbasa in a fry pan last night, and really missed grilling it.
>And I want a nice steak soon, too!
    I wouldn't let a discolored flame affect my method of cooking.
    Is it hurting the performance of the grill?
>Maybe all I need is to replace the flame spreader. (I hope, I hope).
    I think that part is called the burner, btw, and when you price
    them, you may want to reconsider how important it is to have a
    nice blue flame. Parts for gas grills are so expensive they're
    rarely worth replacing.

    John

Re: .0		I had a similar problem.  Since the burner (flame spreader)
	was badly rusted I replaced it, but that didn't solve the problem.
	I took things apart again and found a little "hard junk" inside the
	jet's passage.  I clean it out by forcing a toothpick into the hole,
	reassembled and got much more heat.

	Rick

    I don't think that this is your problem but I'll offer it on the off
    chance.
    
    	I had a similar problem with my gas stove about this time of year.
    Since this was inside the house I was more concerned about improper
    combustion. I has the gas company come out to check it. It was
    explained to me that during the colder months the gas company changes
    the mix of the gas that they pump. I think they add more propane which
    caused my normally blue stove flame to show much more orange.
    
    	Did you get a fresh tank of gas recently? (I realize that you are
    probably burning propane, but maybe that mix was changed????)
    
    
    				Mark

Here, in modern character cell graphics, was my problem.  A sneaky, and 
presently deceased, spider built a little fuzzy nest in my mixing tube.
Eradication of the aforementioned unwanted inhabitant returned my flame
to its appropriate blueness.  I concur, it is a mix ratio problem.

Stan

                _______________________
	___________  ____
gas ->	____nozzle_> |__|<- air hole	to grille ->
		____________###________
			      \
			   spider nest

    re-.1
    I had the same thing in mine 'cept further up in the tube took me
    nearly an hour to find the little pest nest.
    
    -j

    Mine was caused by a valve that lost it's seating.  Was easy to find
    because of the noise (hissing).
    
    Jim

    re .7 and .8
    
    	Ummm were these, by and chance, WEBber grilles?
    
    			;-) ;-) ;-)
    
    				M

The problem of spiders and wasps nesting in gas grill venturi tubes is so
prevalent that manufacturers are now adding screens around the air vents
and putting warnings on the grill and in the manual telling you to check the
tubes for blockages.  If the nest has totally blocked the tube, you could
run the risk of an explosion.  You can also buy brushes specially made for
cleaning out the tubes.

				steve

What caught my eye was when I saw the area around the nozzle catch flame
instead of sending the gas up the burner (which got some yellow flame).


Spider's web, eh?  Kill them!  Kill them all (except the ones that
kill other bugs and the ones that stay out of sight and out of the way).

    
      I use gas in my home to cook with, when the tank get's near empty,
       the flame gets yellow. Just something to consider.
    
                                  Dave

    	[This was the only "bbq grill" topic I could find that almost
    	applied].

    	Just in time for the fourth weekend...

    	What is the function of lava rocks in a gas grill? I assume it's
    	probably for a more even heating of the food (rather than direct
    	flame touching it). 

    	But how much should you have? A layer of one, two or three rocks 
    	high? Can you have too much? Yesterday I filled my grill with the 
    	whole bag which was all the way up to the top (almost touching the 
    	food grill). It dawned on me that that is probably too much, and
    	would take all day to heat up that mass [but I could then cook on
    	it all the way into the next day :-)].
    	                    
    	So how much is typical, any guidelines?

    	-Erik

One layer is all you should have.  The rocks provide an even heating
surface and absorb some grease.

			Steve

    
    	My grill has a layer of lava rock that is basically only 1 or 2
    	rocks deep.  I think there are a couple of purposes for the
    	rock....  to provide more even heat and to keep any grease from 
    	dripping directly into the flame.  I have cooked on one of the
    	new grills which have no rocks, and found that flare-ups were
    	really bad.
    
    	Ed

    	Great... thanks for the info. I'll have to put about half of the
    	lava rocks back into the bag for storage, and bring them out when
    	the other rocks get too grungy (or something).

    	-Erik

    	Another gas grill question: how can you tell how much propane is
    	left in the tank?

	I have a family BBQ party coming up and I had a nightmare last night
    	that just as the food was all prepared and ready to go onto the grill,
    	with everybody standing around, the gas flame suddenly turns yellow
    	and goes out with a disheartening little 'puff'.

    	Filling it before it's empty seems wasteful, and I have absolutely
    	no idea how much is left in there - could be full, could be one
    	puff away from empty.

    	Any tips?

    	-Erik

Well, what I did was buy a smaller 'emergency' tank.  I rotate between the
larger and smaller tanks.  Each giving me enough time to fill the other when
the tanks go empty.  Swapping tanks is quick and easy so that's no problem.
If you do this, be sure and store the second tank outside or in a well 
ventilated area.  Tanks are typically less than $10, at least in Dallas, so
the insurance of a second tank isn't that expensive.

There are presure gauges that you can buy, but I like the idea of using all of
the gas that I could between refills.  The gauges also seemed to be more 
expensive than the second tank.

al

    20 lb tanks are about $15  around the NE.
    Many places have them.  (Home Depot, Ann&Hope, Caldor, etc)
    
    I bought a little stick-on gauge at Ann&Hope recently (~$3)
    You pour very hot water on it and it's supposed to indicate the
    current level.  I haven't gotten it to work too well yet.
    
    But I can often tell the current level, after running it for a while,
    depending on the humidity, because I can see the line of sweat on the
    tank, caused by the depressurizing cooling.
    
    I might just give up and buy a spare myself.
    Just becare to store it somewhere ventilated, without low spots.  
    Propane sinks.
    
    	Dave.

    I agree with .20...getting those temp-sensitive strips to work well
    is a challenge. And those "gauges" built into the grill itself that
    rely on tank-weight are just as useless after a season or two.
    
    The only gauge I've ever seen that appeared reliable was an 'in-line'
    gauge that you install between the tank and the supply line. Cost is
    approx $15-$20.
    
    However, if you're willing to spend that kind of money, you'd be better
    off buying a spare tank as suggested earlier; fill it, store it
    outdoors in a secure area, and when the first tank runs out, simply
    swap them out. The key to making this work is to promptly bring the
    now-empty tank in for a refill. Nothing is worse than running out of
    fuel in the midst of a BBQ, only to discover that your spare tank is
    also empty...:^}.
    
    Freddie

>    I bought a little stick-on gauge at Ann&Hope recently (~$3)
>    You pour very hot water on it and it's supposed to indicate the
>    current level.  I haven't gotten it to work too well yet.
    
You don't really need the strip.  Just pour the hot water down the side
and feel it with your hand.  The empty part will be warm, while the part
with the propane will feel cold.  Works great.

-Hal

I'm pretty sure I saw 20lb tanks on sale at Somerville Lumber in 
Pelham for $6.95!. That was last Saturday and I was in a hurry to 
get back to my project, so you may want to call and verify.

daryll

    I bought a replacement tank that had a guage built into it.
    It was $5 - $10 more than a basic tank.  I assume that it has
    a float inside that turns the pointer.

    Sheesh, if you are having nightmares, just refill the tank.  The
    relatively trivial cost is nothing compared to lost sleep.
    
    Or, as was suggested, buy a 2nd tank.
    
    Dave

>You don't really need the strip.  Just pour the hot water down the side
>and feel it with your hand.  The empty part will be warm, while the part
>with the propane will feel cold.  Works great.

	I knew I had heard abotu that before. Only question is, will you be
	able to tell the difference during this bleeping heat wave?

	Roy

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet...  weigh it.

I think an empty tank weighs 7-9 lbs?  (I can't recall right now, I
have it written on the side of my tank.)

As for the pouring hot water down the side... I tried that but really
couldn't tell.

Dan

    I ran out of gas once for a cookout, while everyone was standing arond
    looking famished. I found some charcoal threw it in the gas grill where
    the lava rock is, and lit it up. Twenty minutes later we were cooking.
    
    Good for an emergency, but now I have a spare tank.
    
    steve

I keep two tanks and rotate them (except for the time I let BOTH of them
run dry - sigh!)

			Steve

How long is a tank good for?  I believe that after a certain number of years 
they can't be refilled.  Can anyone tell me what that age is?

								-- Chuck Newman

The people filling the tanks are not supposed to fill tanks over 10 years old.
unless it has been certified.  I've been told the expense to certify the tank
is more expensive than the cost of a new tank.

If the tank is in lousy shape (rusted), they might not fill it even if it is 
less than 10 years old.

Elaine

    Reading about all these tank issues makes me glad that my grill runs on
    natural gas. :-)
    
    Mark

    	Thanks for all the information! I'll have to try the "line of
    	sweat" and "hot water" trick this weekend for kicks. The "use
    	charcoal" idea was good to read too, in a pinch, it's a great
    	idea (when all else fails).

    	I didn't realize that replacement tanks were that relatively
    	inexpensive, so I suppose my best bet is to get a second tank.
    	Cheap insurance.
                    
    	-Erik

When I brought my rarely used tank in for a refill, the guy weighed it, and said
it was almost full.  An empty 20# tank weighs 18# empty and 38# full.  Now I 
periodically put it on my bathroom scale and check.

Oh, and by the way, when you buy a new tank, they are pressurized with AIR, not
gas.  A friend of mine was quite suprised when he discovered this in the middle
of a barbeque with about 40 hungry people standing around...

Re: .36

Right - there is usually a sticker on the new tank's valve warning that the
air must be purged before filling.  The way this is done is to fill it part
way with gas, then let the gas out.  You don't want to light a match anywhere
near the tank when this is being done!  (Can you say "flamethrower"?)  The
sequence is repeated two or three times before the actual fill is done.

				Steve

    
    	
    	I can tell by just shaking the tank how much is in there. I removed 
    	my tank this summer to fill because it had been over 2 years and I 
    	figured it was time. When I detached it and picked it up i could
    	feel the gas swishing around in there and new there was still
    	plenty left for a few more bbq's. However, I wouldn't chance a low
    	level before a big cookout.

    I'm planning on making a Gas Grill/Buffet on a patio area yet
    un-made. So basically I haven't done anything but think about it yet.
    
    I basically plan to make it about 9 feet long with a 45 degree angle at
    the 4' mark. I want to build a gas grill into the 4 foot section and
    leave the 5' section to serve food on, buffet style. This whole thing
    will be located down two stairs from the pool. I also plan to put an over
    sized picnic table near this thing. 
    
    Anyway I was looking for suggestions from anyone that has done this or
    something like it. I was thinking that I should first pour a slab for
    the Grill/buffet so that it will sit about 4 inchs higher than the
    patio. I then planned to make the thing out of brick, but I don't know
    what I want to use for doors since we want to store plates and other
    stuff inside it. I plan to put ceramic tile on the top and use that
    water proof grout. 
    
    But my biggest question is, can I buy gas grill parts that will fit
    inside a brick enclosure? Does anyone know of a store that carries
    anything like this. I'm also looking for plans that I could go by if 
    anyone remembers seeing any at some store.  
    
    thanks
    
    Alan

    
    2c imput.....
    	For one thing, i'm put the grill at the far end of what ever deck
    you have.  Water for the pool tends to come out and stuff from the
    grill tends to go in if your to close....
    
    I seen a plan something like what you talking about in a "how to" or
    a DIY book.  I'll see If I can find it.   
    From memeory, the cook area was brick.  it had a footing and was
    built off a deck so the wood was used as a platform to stand on.
    It has a charcole grill built in with some built in shelves and
    cubby hole with a door.  Oh, also had a place to mount a beach
    umbrella and a small ice chest for thoes hot days !
                                                     
    As for gas. you should be able to fine enought stuff around to
    fit up a grill unit.
    
    JD
    
    

    The gas grill part will be in the end furthest from the pool but the
    whole buffet is about 10 feet from the pool on a lower level so I don't
    see any problem with pool water. 
    
    Thanks
    
    Alan

    
    I just bought a lot of Sunbeam replacement parts at WalMart
    in Nashua - they seemed to have everything there to build
    your own unit.  You might want to get a wrought iron fabricator
    to make a beefy metal grill out of bigger stock though.  The
    .25" stuff only seems to last a few years.
    

The center post on my grill is badly rusted on top and needs to be
replaced (the grill is beginning to wobble).  Has anyone seen
replacement parts for these?  (I'm in eastern Mass.)  Otherwise, where
could I find a 24" length of 4" outside diameter steel pipe.  It's not
particularly heavy gauge.  I think I could do the necessary surgery to
make it fit my grill.  Thanks.

    You may want to go with natural gas if its already piped into your
    home.  That way you never run out!  I have relitives who have done
    that, also had a natural gas outdoor light just like the colman
    lanterns.
    
    have fun building and bar-b-q'in
    -Brian

    well not exactly like a colman lantern.  it actually looked like a
    regular outdoor post mounted light fixture but it was gas powered with
    a burning mantal and stays lit all the time..probably uses as much gas
    as a pilot light on a furnace.
    
    -Brian
    
    

    I've look around and I guess what you have to do is just build your own
    grill from parts. 
    
    I also got an estimate on putting the patio in, $1350. It seems kind of
    high to me. The area is 17 x 33 but needs to be slopped in on the east
    and west sides and slopped off on the north and south side for proper
    water drainage. I also have two stairs that are made from landscape
    timbers that I will just have the cement filled in behind the timbers
    so we don't need to form the stairs.
    
    So does the price of $1350 seem high? What I would like to do is have
    someone who wants a small side job, let me know how they need the area
    prepared, which I will do and then on the day of the pouring teach me 
    some of the tricks of the trade to do it right. I usually do things
    myself but I figure that I only have one chance to do this right and I
    don't want to mess it up. So if anyone knows of someone that would like
    to make a little extra money but not do all the grunt work then let me
    know.
    
    thanks
    
    Alan
    
    Alan

    I just bought a burner section (dirstribution plate), Sparker, and left
    	side control knob at Summerville Lumber..  (Acton)

	    A poured concrete patio?!?  (shudder)  Are you going to paint
	it grass green to match your lawn?  8^) 
	    Seriously, though.. how about brick & stone dust?  You could
	do it all yourself at your own pace and it would look 1,000 times
	better.

					Tim

    Well it's not really that big, even though it is 17' wide at the widest
    spot and 33' at the longest, the part that will be used for the grill
    and picnic table is probably 17x15. I currently have crushed stone in
    this location (which I hate and was there when I bought the house) this
    spot has the house and stairs to the inground pool on the east and west
    side and the (cement) driveway and bulkhead on the north and south
    side. Both the north and south sides get narrow, I also have a
    chainlink fence between the driveway and this patio area because of the
    pool. I thought of putting in some brick to break up the concrete but I
    think the landscape timbers and shrubs  do enough of that. I guess you 
    would have to see it, I don't think it will look like to much concrete.
    
    Alan

    -.37
    good luck on trying to find a pipe that fit s the grill. I have an old
    Charmglow natural gas grill, 20 years old. Finally after weeks of
    looking around a friend who has a machine shop made me a collar out
    of solid aluminum. I hate to think what it would have cost....
    
    Saul

There is a place in Arlington, MA which specialices in BBQ Grills.
You can get a DUCANE head only, no stand, and it is available for 
natural gas (different burner). Don't remember name of shop, should 
be in yellow Pages.  

   So... along the lines of restoring a rusted grill... what sort of wood
   is typically used for the wooden shelf parts of a gas grill?
   
   Thanks,
   
   - Tom

Cedar, I'd guess.

	Steve

    Any wood that is fairly resistant to rot will work.  Teak, mahogany,
    oak, cedar.  Oiling it regularly or sealing it or even varnishing it
    will make it last longer.  If it is kept out of the elements, by keeping 
    a cover on it, you could probably get away with pine.  
    
    Brian

    I have a gas grill that I want to refurbush. I don't think I'll have
    any problem with the looks and the working of it but I do need a new
    stand. Do places sell just stands? Has anyone made a new stand? Where
    can I get some ideas for this? The grill now sits on a deck.
    
    Thanks for any input,
    Paul
    

    re -.1
    
    	Ok Paul, you asked so here is the absolute cheapest solution that I
    can think of:
    
    	Have Mrs Janowski hold the grill while you cook....or visa versa  :-)
    
    	Now here's the second cheapest solution....
    
    	How about making a simple grill stand out of old hangglider tubing. 
    Between the two of us(and some mutual friends), we certainly have enough
    bent Hangglider and Ultralight tubing and assorted aircraft grade hardware 
    to make a truely outstanding gas grill stand.