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Conference 7.286::home_work

Title:Home_work
Notice:Check Directory (6.3) before writing a new note
Moderator:CSLALL::NASEAM::READIO
Created:Tue Nov 05 1991
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2100
Total number of notes:78741

950.0. "Adhesives" by BPOV09::SJOHNSON (Steve) Wed Mar 25 1987 15:12

    
    Does anyone know of a way to remove the adhesive compound used for
    linolium floors and wall paneling and such?
                             
    In the process of tearing my kitchen apart, I learned that underneath
    the ugly fake brick veneer which some other owner had put in was
    the original toungue and groove type paneling which is predominant
    in the whole house.  Unfortunately, it is caked with the dried 
    adhesive compound used to install the brick stuff. 
    
    If I try to scrape if off, I think I'll gouge up the paneling.
    
    Anybody know of a removal compound which will dissolve the stuff?
    
    
    Steve
                                                                  
    
    
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
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950.1Experiment!KELVIN::RPALMERHalf a bubble off plumbWed Mar 25 1987 15:4615
    Steve,
    	I had the same problem with my kitchen.  Some moron glued the
    fake brick to T&G oak wainscoting.  I also had that stuff glued
    to the countertops, I ended up taking the whole mess to the dump.
    	There is no one universal adhesive compound.  Some are soluble
    in water, some in paint thinner and some others that need exotic
    chemicals to dissolve.  Did you ever get foam in a can on you?  That
    stuff never comes off!
    	The best I can suggest is to experiment.  Try hot water, acetone,
    and paint thinner to see if any work.  I don't think you will have
    much luck getting all the goop out of the cracks between the T&G.
    You might try using a heat gun to soften it up first.  If you can
    find out what type of adhesive it is I can be more specific.  Did
    the other owner leave the can of adhesive in the cellar?
    					=Ralph=
950.2Try a heat gun!DRUID::CHACEWed Mar 25 1987 16:144
      I have used a heat gun with great success on floor adhesive. You'll
    just have to take it easy to avoid scorching the wood beneath.
    
    					Kenny
950.3BPOV09::SJOHNSONSteveThu Mar 26 1987 15:0811
    
    Thanks for the tips.
    
    I'll check the cellar to see if the container is down there, but
    don't think it will be, although the previuos owner left behind
    2 or 3 shelves full of old paint/varnish/etc containers.
    
    But it looks like I'll be experimenting.
    
                                                             
    Steve
950.4Try dry ice to remove adhesiveHEADS::OSBORNSally's VAXNotes Vanity PlateThu Mar 26 1987 15:452
Dry ice has been recommended to make an adhesive more brittle, 
thus allowing you to remove it more easily.
950.5Adhesive remover chemicalBPOV09::SJOHNSONSteveSun May 10 1987 13:5515
    Believe it or not, I found by accident a chemical labelled as "adhesive
    remover" in my Friendly  Neighborhood True Value(tm) Hardware Store.
    
    It's made by the Sunnyside Chemical Co.  It worked great in removing
    the  old adhesive from my wall.  I had to re-apply about 3 times
    because the old adhesive was so thick, but it worked.

    It cleans up with paint thinner.
    
    You have to wear gloves cos it's nasty stuff.

                                                                  
    
    Steve                    
    
950.24waterproof glueCADDLE::HARDINGThu Nov 05 1987 15:576

Does anyone have any recommendations for a strong waterproof epoxy
glue ?

    dave
950.25WELFAR::PGRANSEWICZAuhhhhh, I've been slimed!Thu Nov 05 1987 16:171
    Check out the TOOLS conference.
950.26AUTHOR::WELLCOMESteve Wellcome (Maynard)Fri Nov 06 1987 13:0910
    The best I've seen is called "Accra-Weld" from 
    
    	Brownell's Inc.
    	Route 2 Box 1		$3.00 for catalog, I think
    	Montezuma, Iowa
    
    They cater to professional gunsmiths and have all sorts of unusual
    tools.  Their epoxy is true industrial-grade stuff.  I've used it
    for all sorts of random glue jobs over the years and never had a
    failure with it.
950.6Looking for adhesive-backed Velcro?XANADU::FLEISCHERBob, DTN 381-0895, ZKO3-2/T63, BOSE A/DWed Jul 13 1988 19:548
        I'm looking for a source of velcro strips that are
        self-adhesive.  In particular I'd prefer a 1/4" wide
        continuous roll (I need thin, long strips). I also want a
        choice of colors (actually, the only color I need is a medium
        blue).

        Thanks,
        Bob
950.7BINKLY::WINSTONJeff Winston (Hudson, MA)Wed Jul 13 1988 21:165
try a fabric store (the fabric place, windsor button shop, etc) -or 
some household mailorder catalogs have them too

be careful - use too large a contact area and it will be very 
difficult to separate
950.8Velcro?? Look in the "fasteners" section...LITLTN::CAHILLJim CahillThu Jul 14 1988 14:206
    G.V. Moore's in Littleton carries several different colors.  They cut
    just what you need off a long roll.  Last time I bought some, it was
    somewhere around $1/foot.  I would imagine other hardware stores in
    your area also have it.
    
    Jim
950.9Velcro USA - 603-669-4880UCOUNT::BAILEYCorporate SleuthFri Jul 15 1988 16:1125
    Most discount fabric stores carry it (the So-Fro chain, for example)
    and you can buy it by the inch (last I got was 10 cents/inch) in
    black, beige, and white, sometimes others.  It's usually about 3/4
    inch wide.  It's NOT self adhesive.
    
    I've only seen the self-adhesive variety as small "spots" or short
    strips. I'd be hesitant to use self-adhesive for very long sections
    unless the adhesive is really good, because the force required to
    separate the velcro in long sections places additional stress on
    the glue and might make it pop up.  (It's not an easy substance
    to adhere, you know!)  Depending on what two surfaces you want to
    join, you might consider sewing, stapling, or otherwise more securely
    fastening the velcro to each surface, whatever is suitable.  If
    that doesn't work, and you MUST use adhesives, you could try asking
    at the fabric store or calling Velcro in Manchester, NH (they are
    "local", did you realize that?)  If that doesn't pan out (and the
    company might be able to direct you to something that does just
    waht you want, by the way), I guess you should consider the qualtities
    of the surfaces you are joining and the Velcro, and think of what
    will hold up to the abuse, and use that.  Hot glue guns, epoxy,
    silicon adhesive come to mind -- something sort of thick and firm.
    
    Good luck!
    
    Sherry
950.10Don't use. Get contact cement with ordinary velcroALEX::CONNAlex Conn, ZKOMon Aug 01 1988 20:2013
    I do not recommend self-adhesive velcro.  The adhesive is simply
    not strong enough for most applications.  Everything I have tried
    it on has failed sooner or later. Instead, do the following:
    
    Buy ordinary velcro and Barge cement (a high quality contact cement
    often used by shoe repair shops--if you can't find it, use Weldwood
    contact cement).  The contact cement is much stronger than anything
    you'd normally get that is self adhesive.   By the way, I have found
    Barge cement at REI (a coop store and catalog of camping and outdoor
    equipment primarily located in the northwest but with a new store in
    Reading, MA) 
    
    Alex
950.28What is superglue good for other than self-adhesion?SENIOR::SHAWBen Wah? Who's he?Mon Mar 06 1989 14:5616
I've stuck my fingers to my thumb. I've stuck my fingers to the tube. I've 
stuck the cap of the tube to my fingers. I've stuck my fingers to the cloth I 
used to remove the glue from my hand.

I have told supplier EXACTLY what I want to stick.
I have read the instructions carefully.....AND followed them to the letter.
I have even called the manufacturer.
I have taken samples of the material I need to repair to the supplier.

Has anybody ever found ANYTHING that superglue will repair?
What am I doing wrong please?

It's hard to type with two glued up fists.


Brian.
950.29Not for sniffin'ATSE::GOODWINMon Mar 06 1989 16:0049
    I have had some real good luck with superglue, and even more bad luck. 
    The only conclusion I can come to is that you just have to try it and
    see if it will do what you want.
    
    You're right, though, that it mostly seems to work best on those things
    that you don't want it to work on.  In fact the overall effect of
    superglue can be described by the formula:
    
    	B = V/D
    
    where B is the strength of the bond, V is the value of the materials
    being bonded, and D is the strength of your desire to bond those
    materials.
    
    Actually, I have noticed that not all superglues are created equal. 
    There seems to be a great variation in quality among manufacturers, to
    the extent that I have had some brand new glue work fine where another
    brand wouldn't work at all.  And they purported to be the same stuff.
    
    Age and temperature also seem to have effects.
    
    But to answer your original question:
    
    	One time when I was on a trip to Dallas, Texas, the sole of my
    	right shoe decided to separate from the upper, which was a thinner
    	piece of leather which went all the way around my foot and was
    	apparently glued to the sole -- not very well, though.  Since I
    	had recently had the experience of getting my fingers glued 
    	together (by a humorous co-worker) I figured that perhaps super
    	glue would have the same effect on the cow's "skin" as it did on
    	mine.  So without even taking off my shoe (I was showing off), I
    	poured about half a bottle of super glue on the top of the soul,
    	then put stepped right down on it hard with the upper which my
    	right foot was in.  As I was counting to ten I began to imagine
    	that I could feel warmth on the bottom of my foot, which I 
    	discounted as an illusion caused by pressing hard on it.  Then
    	I began to imagine that there was smoke coming out from in between
    	the soul and the upper, and that the bottom of my foot was
    	beginning to get hotter.  Being a fairly quick fellow, I reached
    	right down and yanked the shoelace into a knot which it eventually
    	took 15 minutes to untie.  The only reason I got the shoe off at
    	all is that the glue had overflowed the other side of the soul and
    	spilled under the soul and the shoe was firmly stuck to the floor,
    	so when I lost my balance and fell forward my foot pulled right
    	out of the shoe, which was firmly stuck to the linoleum floor.
    
    The only time it has worked totally satisfactorily is when we glued a
    quarter to the floor down in the lab and watched folks come by and try
    to pick it up.  Took a hammer and chisel to get it loose.
950.30TRITON::CONNELLDown on Toidy-toid 'n Toid AvenueMon Mar 06 1989 16:3313
>< Note 3077.0 by SENIOR::SHAW "Ben Wah? Who's he?" >
> I've stuck my fingers to my thumb. 

	Considering the fact that Super/Crazy/Cyanoacrylic adhesives were
 developed to replace sutures in the medical field, it's not surprising that
 the thing it sticks together best is skin.

	I've had luck with it mostly on non-porous, flat surfaces such as
 lexan and plexiglass.

				Good luck with your new claws.  8^)

							--Mike
950.31BOSTON::SWISTJim Swist BXO 224-1699Mon Mar 06 1989 16:3417
    Matching a glue to the proper application is no small trick.  "Bonds
    anything to anything etc" is marketing hype.
    
    ACC (super) glues come in a variety of viscosities. The thinner
    ones are the ones that set very quickly.  The thicker ones take
    longer but have better gap-filling characteristics and are more
    like the conventional (oozy sticky-stuff) glues the uninitiated
    may be expecting.
    
    Very thin super glues are difficult to work with as they want to
    spread and flow.  They need to be applied in very small drops only
    to surfaces which mate very cleanly and are not very porous. Otherwise
    they'll run all over the place, including onto your fingers.
    
    Fooling aroung with superglues is stupidity.  Bonding skin is the
    least of its bad side effects.  Getting it in your eyes is a very,
    very serious matter.  
950.32A thousand and one uses...PSTJTT::TABERThe call of the mildMon Mar 06 1989 16:5120
I've always assumed that the manufacturer knows the best application of their
products, so I've been waiting until I needed to glue my hardhat to an I-beam
before I bought any.  An earlier commercial implies it might be good if
you want to use a 2x4 to bond a couple of pickup trucks as well.  

When my Mom bought some to repair a china cup, I managed to stick my
thumb and forefingers together gripping the pin I had just pierced the cap
with.  This is the sort of edge you need to pick up those few extra tenths
of a second in the Olympic Balloon-popping event.  However, it didn't do
me (or later, the cup) any good.

I've heard that law enforcement people think it's dandy for lifting finger-
prints -- I always assumed they're lifting them off the fingers they used
to be attached to as an interrogation technique.... (just kidding.)

To add one serious note, I've always found that it has good tensile strength,
but little or no shear strength.  The ads for it always show it being used
in tensile applications, so I imagine the manufacturers feel the same way.

					>>>==>PStJTT
950.33It does get rather warm as it reacts ;^)TEKTRM::REITHJim Reith DTN 235-8459 HANNAH::REITHMon Mar 06 1989 17:255
It's used in model airplane building quite a bit. You can fill a gap with the 
thin stuff if you use some baking soda in the joint. Baking soda will react with 
it right away and create a hard substance. I've fixed cup handles by putting
baking soda in the joint, wiping off the excess, wicking the glue into the joint,
and holding it away as it "smokes" its fumes. Use in well ventilated areas.
950.34StuckSENIOR::SHAWBen Wah? Who's he?Mon Mar 06 1989 17:2525
Thanks for the replies. I'm not fooling around. I'm deadly serious. I've not 
found anything the stuff will stick. I wanted to repair a porcelain ornament so 
I bought the one that says it will stick china, porcelain, clay etc. No go.
I recently cracked the plastic upholstry in my car that covers the seat belt, 
on the door post, so I bought the one that sticks  plastic, vinyl, poly 
whatever..it's called.

It's amusing to stick dimes to the floor and I've done similar (actually it was 
an engineers enamel/metal coffee mug. I as an apprentice, nailed it to a wooden 
bench, then filled it with coffee. It got the same reception as the cling wrap 
over the toilet bowl :-(....), but how the heck do I stick plastic and 
porcelain? 
The supplier does not want to take it back, and I'm getting nickel and dimed to 
death because I'm "just a customer", spending money in an attempt to use the 
goods in the manner they are advertised in.
Contact adhesives are not suitable for either application. I have used epoxy 
resin based adhesives with good results, however in the car, the damage is a 
long spilt in the hard plastic, and I cannot get the adhesive in the air gap. 
Superglue goes in fine.....runs down the crack....and glues my fingers to the 
plastic. 

Maybe I'll try a 6" nail. 

Thankyou,
Brian.
950.35Stick 'em upATSE::GOODWINMon Mar 06 1989 18:0232
    Somewhere recently I read an article about this stuff.  I think it
    might have been in Popular Science or Popular Mechanics in the last
    couple of months or so.  They said that some brands work MUCH better
    than others, especially on surfaces like plastics, porcelain, glass,
    etc., which are borderline in their ability to work with this type of
    glue anyway.
    
    They said that the glue is acidic and that contact with even a very
    slightly basic substance will initiate the setting up process.  They
    said that most surfaces have atmospheric moisture on them and that that
    moisture, slight though it is is just a tiny bit basic chemically and
    is enough to start the curing process.  That's probably why baking
    soda, which is quite basic, sets right up hard in no time.
    
    The article also suggested that if some substances do not want to
    stick, then you could try roughing them up a little, and/or try putting
    a sheet of tissue paper between them to provide enough porosity for the
    bonds to form.  Tissue paper also makes a nice wick for the watery
    glues.
    
    Remember one thing -- some types of plastic will not stick at all, like
    the bottle the stuff comes in.
    
    If you're using a watery glue on a very porous surface, it can sink in
    so fast that it doesn't work.  Maybe a thicker glue would help.  
    
    I glued a big heavy glass ashtray back together once and it seemed as
    strong as when it was new.  I cleaned the surfaces with windex first
    (which has ammonia in it -- a base).  I didn't think about it at the
    time, but maybe that helped.
    
    Good luck
950.36I found this after leaving here...TEKTRM::REITHJim Reith DTN 235-8459 HANNAH::REITHMon Mar 06 1989 18:1441
                  <<< IOALOT::DUA3:[NOTES$LIBRARY]RC.NOTE;4 >>>
          -< Welcome to the Radio Control Conference Home of DECRCM >-
================================================================================
Note 409.43                           GLUES                             43 of 43
PEE47::COX "So Speedy, how do we get zeez brains?"   34 lines   6-MAR-1989 12:37
                               -< Base-ic news! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    More News!
    
    The February issur of Popular Science contains an article on
    CyA glues that explains away a lot of the mystery.
    
    Let me recap some of the points.  CyA is an organic monomer that
    polymerizes when pressed into a thin film.  This reaction takes
    advantage of the microscopic layer of water that is present on almost
    every surface. This layer is slightly basic and acts as a catalyst.
    
    Now, if you look at the contents of a bottle of Zip-Kicker for example,
    it is made up of freon and aromatic amines - amines are weak bases. 
    The kicker ups the pH of the surface so that when you apply CyA - Wham!
    
    A couple of thoughts.  When you open a bottle of CyA it begins the slow
    process of curing, so that in about six months the stuff is no good.  I
    now buy the smallest bottles which in the long run are more economical
    since I use them before they go bad.  Keep the unused stuff in the
    freezer and it will last up to two years.
    
    After reading the article, I'm more prone to use a kicker and have
    better results than before.  Remember that even though the kicker sems
    to evaporate very quickly (really its mostly the vehicle evaporating)
    the surface remains treated for at least a minute - so don't feel that
    you have to hurry!
    
    If anyone wants a copy of the article send me mail at PEE47::COX, and
    depending on the number of responses I'll mail them out or key it into
    the note.
    
                --|--             Happy (con)Trails!
                 (O)             
          _______/ \_______       Scott Cox
    
950.37So how do they stick the teflon to the pan? ;^)TEKTRM::REITHJim Reith DTN 235-8459 HANNAH::REITHMon Mar 06 1989 18:194
Re: .7

The old bottles used to come with a capillary tube that was lined with teflon
so it wouldn't clog.
950.38It does work on some thingsPLANET::MARCHETTIMama said there'd be days like this.Tue Mar 07 1989 12:207
    My son pulled the rearview mirror off my truck windshield and I
    used superglue to stick it back on.  The first time I tried it,
    it didn't stick.  The problem was I used to much (2 drops on a square
    inch).  I wiped it off and used as small a drop as I could, and
    it worked great.  That was six months ago, and it's still holding.
    
    Bob
950.39Would you believe earings?AKOV11::GMURRAYWed Mar 08 1989 16:4116
    About a year ago, when I worked in Boston, my mother gave me
    two jade beads and asked me to go to the Jewelers Building and
    have earings made for my grandmother.
    
    I went into one of the stores and asked for a specific type
    of earing that they didn't have.  Another Jeweler happened to
    be there and said he could help me.  He said to say I was his
    cousin and not say anything else.  We went into another shop
    in the building where he bought the 14k gold earings for $5.00
    to make the earings with.  We then went to his workshop where
    he used Superglue to glue the jade beads to the earings.
    
    I asked him if this is what he always used, and he said yes, that
    superglue has been the best invention yet to the jewelry business.
    For some reason he liked me and only charged me the $5.00 for the
    earings.  And, as far as I know they are still sticking.
950.40It works for meCADSYS::RICHARDSONTue Mar 14 1989 18:3016
    I like the gooey superglue better than the really thin kind - which
    really does run all over the place (including sticking your fingers
    together, etc., although I never did a real bad job of that - the stuff
    will peel off after it has set up, although it is a big nuisance).  The
    thicker stuff worked good for: gluing an airplane-damaged suitcase
    corner back together (beats me how they mangle my luggage the way they
    do - it was a *new* suitcase, too, not one of the previously-mangled
    ones!), gluing the sole back onto my folk-dancing shoe (used one tiny
    drop for every 2-3 square inches), and gluing back together the fronts
    of the soles of the pair of shoes I am wearing right now (the soles are
    rubber, and the top part seems to be connected, probably sewn, to the
    leather, and then glued to the bottom part).  I have had better luck
    with epoxy (although it is a major nuisance - but it is easy to get it
    off your fingernails!) when I need to fill gaps.   Contact cement
    worked good to glue a piece of broken vinyl tile back down after
    someone dropped a heavy item on the floor and cracked it.
950.41Still looking for the building with the hard hat stuck to its framing...TEKTRM::REITHJim Reith DTN 235-8459 HANNAH::REITHWed Mar 15 1989 10:336
As noted in the article sited earlier, the thinner the glue, the less 
porous/better fitting the joint needs to be. The glue needs to be exposed
to something basic (non-acidic) to activate. I've done glass/ceramic with
a wipe of baking soda solution over the surfaces and then dried (it never 
really dries totally) and when you press the two pieces together it better 
be right!
950.42Remember the acetone!WECARE::BAILEYCorporate SleuthWed Mar 15 1989 19:4914
    Being another of the pin-stuck types, I have found some success
    with the glue pens that keep your fingertips and the glue a couple
    of inches apart.  I never try to work without my tissue box and
    acetone based fingernail polish remover handy, and use the smallest
    amount of glue possible for the task at hand.  Toss the leftover
    glue after a month or two, and consider the dollar the cost of the
    single repair -- it does go bad and having it around and not useful
    just makes it annoying when you need it.  It's good for some things
    and not for others.  You just have to figure out what's what!  
    
    Thanks for the tip on activation by a base -- I never knew that.
    Guess I'll take another stab at fixing MY shoes!!!
    
    Sherry
950.43It keeps in the coldREGENT::GETTYSBob Gettys N1BRM 235-8285Thu Mar 16 1989 11:508
                I learned that keeping the stuff cold will extend its
        life considerably. When it first came out, and was only used
        industrialy, all the bottles reccomended refrigeration for
        storage, new or opened. Now, nobody talks about it. I have kept,
        and used, bottles of the stuff for upwards of 5 years by keeping
        in the refrigerator at normal food keeping temperatures.
                
                /s/     Bob
950.44SALEM::RIEUIs the 'stiff water' gone yet??Thu Mar 16 1989 16:033
       Ah, yes, good old 'Permabond' I might even still heve a bottle
    in the fridge somewhere!
                                                   Denny
950.11Construction AdhesivesFORCE::HQCONSOLFri Nov 10 1989 18:0212
    A dir/title= glue or adhesive didn't find any previous existing
    note for:
    
    
    What product do you recommend for a sub-floor construction adhesive
    for bonding the plywood to the joists.  Seems lots of places carry
    Liquid Nails.  I want some advice that will point me to a TRIED & PROVEN
    product.
    
    I also plan to use either ringed nails or cement coated nails for
    nailing the CDX into the joists.                        
    
950.12PL400TOOK::SWISTJim Swist LKG2-2/T2 DTN 226-7102Fri Nov 10 1989 19:0012
    "Liquid Nails" is similar to a product called "PL200" - both are medium
    duty construction adhesives.   The people who make PL200 (who?) make
    this stuff called PL400.  I've only seen it in the large size tubes and
    it's not all that easy to find, but it's supposedly a lot more serious
    than PL200/Liquid Nails.  I also found it a bit easier to work with
    (was stickier and more fluid - beads didn't fall off the work).
    
    However, bonding subfloor to joists is a wood-to-wood joint assisted by
    nails and is not a really a tough application.  I'm sure Liquid Nails
    would be fine.
    
    A "tough" application is subfloor to concrete, no nails.
950.13Wham Wham KA-BOOOM!XCUSME::KRUYThere Ain't No JusticeFri Nov 10 1989 20:5413


	I just did this in my attic & we used liquid nails subflooring
	somethingorother.  It seems to work real well (then again the 
	floor has only been down a week & not much traffic to speak of,
	but no squeeks! :^) ).

	We picked this one becuase we didn't have great	ventilation & all
	the other brands said "DANGER: EXPLOSIVE.  Do not generate sparks".
	Seeing as we were using an electric compressor with a framing
	gun, we went with the one that wasn't explosive.

950.14PL400 works wellTRITON::FERREIRAMon Nov 13 1989 11:425
I used the PL400 and found it to be real good to work with.  It's thick enough
to stay reasonably where put.  Hit has excellent bonding & fill characteristics.
Yet, remains elastic enough once set up to provide that cushion between sub-n-
joists to keep out the squeaks.  It's available at Littleton Lumber, located
diagonally across 119 from the LKG at the intersection of 495.
950.15PL400 SHARE::CALDERAMon Nov 13 1989 15:2913
    Another vote for PL400 I used PL400 for subflooring works great, I also
    used PL200 to attach some wooden blocks to use as stand offs for
    styrofoam insulation, they fell off before it dried, the ones that did
    stick fell when the wood got wet during construction, I tried some
    PL400 that was hanging around it worked great, even when the rain came
    and the roof was opened up, it held.  True PL400 may be a little tough
    to find but its worth the search, don't let them tell you something
    else is just as good.
    
    Good luck,
    
    Paul
    
950.27Look at marine Epoxies - West SystemRECYCL::MCBRIDETue May 01 1990 15:116
    For a decent waterproof glue, look at some of the marine epoxies.  West
    System is the first that comes to mind.  Very strong and can be mixed
    with all sorts of fillers to customize the consistency for various
    purposes. 
    
    Brian
950.16Which easier to remove - adhesive or powernails?MVDS00::LOCKRIDGEArtificial InsanityFri Aug 02 1991 14:3921
    Opinions Solicited:

    Since I'm not sure this would fall under any current note. . .

    I'd like to get opinions about using construction cement on a concrete
    floor vs .22 powerload driven nails into a concrete floor as to the
    REMOVAL of the material (a 2x3 or 2x4) attached with the same. 

    I am looking to build a room into my garage with an opening into my
    living room, to expand my pipe organ.  At some point when I find a used
    cathedral, I will want to move out of the present residence and I have
    a distinct feeling that any prospective buyer will not be interested in
    a 'Organ Chamber' in the garage (i.e., this is NOT useful living
    space).

    So what do you think.  Which would be easier to remove?  I know which
    one I believe, but want to see what other may think (and why).

    Thanks!

    -Bob
950.17Another optionELWOOD::LANEFri Aug 02 1991 14:526
How about 3/8 lead anchors in 9/16 holes? Un-do the bolt and fill the holes
when you're done. They'll work like a champ and be easier to install (unless
you already have a power nailer...)


Mickey.
950.18Maybe good for new cement...GUFFAW::GRANSEWICZIt's on my listFri Aug 02 1991 15:429
    
    RE: .0
    
    Judging from the way the power nails went into my basement floor,
    you'll have no trouble getting them out because they don't go in to
    begin with.  Your mileage may vary but they were practically useless on
    my 38 year old concrete basement floor.  Go with the lag bolts and
    anchors, as suggested.
    
950.19Church building for sale.SMURF::PINARDFri Aug 02 1991 18:093
    Just buy the Cathedral, there is a jehova church type building
    for sale in Manchester, N.H. on Varney St... ;^)
    
950.20I vote adhesiveWONDER::BENTOU know my name, look up the #Mon Aug 05 1991 19:418
    
    	I used both types on my basement floor when laying down a new 
    	flooron top.
    
    	My guess is the construction adhesive will outlast the .22s.  Of
    	course, preparation of the materials to be joined has a lot to do
    	with this too!  If you just lay cement on an un-cleaned floor, all
    	bets are off.
950.21another votePARITY::KLEBESJohn F. KlebesTue Aug 06 1991 20:3724
    My vote for power(or unpowered) nails is NO.
    They don't work very well if the concrete has cured for a few years.
    Even on new construction they have a tendency to breakout large chunks
    of concrete if they are not driven in perfectly perpendicular to the
    surface.

    Construction Adhesive is a MAYBE.
    I used the construction adhesive combined with two to three concrete 
    expansion bolts per eight foot pressure treated 2x4's.  On one section
    I failed to measure first and cut once.  I needed to cut off a four
    inch section that had been glued down for 24 hours.  I had to use
    several heavy blows with a large sledge hammer to remove a four inch
    section of 2x4.  Their was a 1/16th inch rough layer of concrete 
    firmly attached to the 2x4 and a rough surface left on the concrete
    surface.  You could float a layer of leveling concrete over the area
    and possible get a good looking repaired surface.

    Lag Bolts, concrete screws, or expansion bolts would be best.
    All are fairly easy to remove and leave only an easily fillable
    hole in the concrete surface.  The down side is you will 
    definitely be able to tell that there were holes patched in the 
    surface and they are very expensive.  (the .22 are just as expensive)

    -JFK-
950.22Try them, if they don't work, Plan B(olt)GUFFAW::GRANSEWICZIt's on my listThu Aug 08 1991 15:147
    
    Also, if your floor isn't level the board will be excerting upward
    pressure on the nails.  If they did seat real well, they pull out.
    But I have seen them work well in other instances.  You probably should
    a nailer and then try it.  Any problems, then go with lag bolts and
    anchors.
    
950.23VERGA::WELLCOMESteve Wellcome (Maynard)Wed Aug 14 1991 13:026
    Neither nails nor adhesive are designed to be removable.
    Given that you know you want this thing to be removable,
    I'd go with something that gives you a result that is
    designed to be taken apart: drilled holes and anchors.  I 
    am personally quite partial to Star (brand) Tamp-Ins.  They 
    hold really well, in my experience.
950.51Remove Glue from Wood MAYES::MERRITTWed May 20 1992 16:0814
    
    I need some help trying to find "something" that will remove
    glue from wood!  We just bought a new day bed that is made
    from dark pine wood.  Once we got the darn thing all assembled
    we noticed one of the wood spindles has dried glue dripping
    down the side.   My hubby starting scraping it off with a
    knife....but it was making scratches in the wood!
    
    I realize I can return it...and if I can't find an easy
    solution to remove the glue...I probably will send it back!
    
    Any idea/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
    
    Sandy
950.52worth a trySUBWAY::DARCYWed May 20 1992 19:0223
    Depending on the type of glue, I'd imagine this to be some form of
    Carpenters glue, there are different solvents which can be applied.
    
    Check with you local hardware store for their recommendation for
    Carpenters glue (not so much that I don't know of any, but rather I'm
    not familiar with local brands in different parts of the country).
    
    Some common household solutions you may want to try, which won't hurt
    the finish are:
    
    	- dishwashing liquid and hot water
    	- white vinegar
    	- nail polish remover, rubbing alcohol
    	- accetone
    	- wall paper paste remover
    
    Also - lightly sanding with a fine grade sand paper might do the trick. 
    If the finish gets dulled doing this, you can touch it up with Varnish
    or Polyurethane (number of finishes from dull (flat), semi and high
    gloss).
    
    re;
    
950.53NOTIME::SACKSGerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085Wed May 20 1992 19:167
>    Some common household solutions you may want to try, which won't hurt
>    the finish are:
>...    
>    	- nail polish remover, rubbing alcohol
>    	- accetone

Nail polish remover is [mostly] acetone, and acetone will harm most finishes.
950.54STAR::DZIEDZICThu May 21 1992 11:283
    Most furniture is finished AFTER assembly; if the finish was
    applied OVER the glue there's not much you're going to be able
    to do about removing the glue without exposing the wood.
950.55MAYES::MERRITTThu May 21 1992 12:358
    Well I'm sure it is carpenter glue....last night I tried
    dish detergent/water and it didn't help at all!!  I then tried
    to use my fingernail...and did get some glue off but also chipped
    the wood! (and broke my nail!!)
    
    Obviously this piece of furniture did not go through a quality check!
    
    Sandy   
950.45Is Locktite good for this?SOLVIT::NNGUYENMon Nov 22 1993 15:0728
    	Hi,

    		I have a '85 Stanza sedan with 2.0L EFI engine.  This past
    	weekend, when I started the car I heard the engine was very noisy.
    	After visual inspection and checking the spark plugs and ignition
    	wires without luck I decided to open the engine cover. 

    		I found a broken piece of aluminum inside.  This piece was 
    	part of the cylinder head and it was part of the hole for a bolt
    	hold down the crankshaft(?).  The broken piece had 3/4 the thread 
    	of the hole. It looked like this part was at the edge and it was 
    	further weakened by the threads for the bolt and now it broke off. 
    	Righ now I just tighten the bolt which had very litle thread
    	to hold. There were 3 other bolts in fairly good shape holding down
    	the same shaft. The car can be driven but something must be done soon.
    
    		Do you know how to fix this problem without replacing the
    	cylinder head?  I had a shop manual of this car and it showed the 
    	problem part as a whole cylinder head block. 
    	
>>>    		Is there any special glue/Locktite which can withstand the 
    	heat in the engine, the attack of the hot oil and the force of the 
    	tighten bolt?  The piece geometry was small, not enough for drilling
    	hole (I was thinking to attach the piece via drill and screw.)

    		Thanks for any suggestion.

    	/Neil
950.46MRKTNG::BROCKSon of a BeechMon Nov 22 1993 15:448
    It is not the crankshaft, but the camshaft.
    
    You MIGHT get away with just the remaining bolts holding the cam. I
    doubt if those bolts do double duty and also secure the head.
    
    I doubt that ANY glue would hold it.
    
    If you have an extended engine warranty, you might be covered.
950.47exSOLVIT::NNGUYENMon Nov 22 1993 15:497
    The car is 7 yrs old with 70K miles on it so I don't think there is
    any warranty on it.
    
    The bolts only hold the shaft. They are about 5mm size, 2" or less
    in length.
    
    /Neil
950.48CSC32::S_BROOKThere and back to see how far it isMon Nov 22 1993 16:012
This question belongs in Mechanix-II or in Carbuffs ... not homework ...
but anyway, you need a new head ... no question ...
950.49Yup, better asked in carbuffs.SOLVIT::CHACEMy favorite season is getting nearer!Mon Nov 22 1993 17:178
    
      If the head broke *with* all the other threads, it certainly won't
    hold with the few that are left. I think you need a new head. Its
    *possible* that you can find a great machine shop that can weld on a
    new boss, the drill and tap it. But it'll likely cost as much as a new
    head. Try to get one from a junkyard. They guarantee their stuff.
    
    				Kenny
950.50Change the oil, tooSSDEVO::JACKSONJim JacksonMon Nov 22 1993 18:242
And change your oil ASAP, and again in 1K miles, to get rid of the aluminum
pieces floating around in your engine.
950.56Can contact cemented surfaces be separated?TRU116::WEISSMon Nov 20 1995 12:0116
I'm currently renovating our kitchen (new flooring, base cabinets, dishwasher
and fixtures), and now that I have removed the old base cabinet and flooring
I'm ready to start removing the old back-splash.  The previous owners'
contractor used one solid piece of formica to cover the counter-top and
back-splash, which has been contact cemented to chip-board mounted on the wall. 
Since I don't want to damage the wall cabinets at this time I need to remove
the formica to that I can inspect the chip-board to ensure that I can remove it
and replace it with drywall.  

Does anyone know how I can separate the formica from the chip-board given that
I was attached using contact cement.  I'm guessing that I'll have to sand it
off with a belt sander, but if you have any suggestions please let me know.

Thanks,
Ira
950.57QUARK::LIONELFree advice is worth every centMon Nov 20 1995 14:124
Try a heat gun to warm the laminate and then gently pry it off with a
putty knife.

				Steve
950.58goof offSMURF::WALTERSMon Nov 20 1995 15:3311
    
    A strong solvent like goof-off will dissolve the contact cement. Get a
    pack of thin wooden door shims, cut some wooden wedges and get a cheap
    paintbrush. Start by carefully prising up a corner with a sharp chisel
    and brush in some goof off.  Wait a min for the bond to soften and then
    push in the shim to wedge it up.  Repeat this until you have about a
    square foot loose and sometimes it starts to come up just by tapping
    in the shims.
    
    Colin
     
950.59REGENT::POWERSTue Nov 21 1995 11:449
I don't understand.
How have you removed the base cabinets without already having removed 
the countertop and the attached backsplash?
Do you plan to replace the whole countertop?  (You don't plan on saving
the present laminate if you unglue it, do you?)
If you are replacing the backsplash with drywall, what's the shape of the
chipboard got to do with anything?

- tom]
950.60More clarification, but the heat gun worked!TRU116::WEISSTue Nov 21 1995 12:2021
    Thanks for the suggestions, I borrowed my brothers heat gun last night
    and got most of it removed.
    
    Tom:  I tore out the old counter-top and base cabinet, but found myself
    stuck with the back-splash.  I didn't want to just pry up the
    back-spalsh because I couldn't tell if it went up behind the wall
    cabinets.  Now that I've removed the formica I can see that it ends
    below the wall cabinets.  
    
    This renovation only includes new vinyl floor, base cabinets, counter-
    top, dishwasher and fixtures.  The other appliances are new, and I'm 
    cash strapped due to a baby on the way and I have to re-finish my 
    basement office and remove my temporary office from the nursery.  The
    basement office got wrecked with flooding inthe spring (never buy a
    house in the winter!).
    
    Sorry for the long drawn-out response, but I did want to address your
    questions.
    
    Thanks again,
    Ira