Conference 7.286::home_work

    Traditionally, outside walls are reserved for windows (and
    baseboard heating elements).  I don't see any reason why a
    closet can't be on an outside wall.
    
    -al

    
    Closets on outside walls get cold in the winter. Great for
    a pantry - keeps perishables nice and fresh. Terrible for
    clothes - pulling on well chilled clothing on a winter morning
    is no way to wake up (louvered doors help).

    I grew up in a house that had all but 2 closets on outside
    walls and did not experience cold clothes.  My parents still
    live in the house, it a rather modern house with mostly large
    open rooms, and their coat closet is on the outside wall and
    we have no problem with cold coats when we visit.  Maybe the
    house was build with this type of problem in mind and that
    is why there is no problem, this was the original design.

    We don't have outside wall closets. But we have two cedar window
    boxes. The sweaters are cold in the morning. I told my wife that
    now I understand why they are good for wools, the moths freeze
    to death :-)
    
    Ed

      The reason closets aren't usually on outside walls is because
    they would have to jut into the room. From a design standpoint,
    if they are on an inside wall then you can have two closets sharing
    the same wall (one facing each way) with an otherwise straight wall.
    
    					Kenny

    I have a laundry/sewing room located on the north side of my
    house in which I designed a winter/summer type closet along the
    outside wall. This is the closet which houses winter garb in
    the summer and summer garb in the winter, but it's main purpose
    in life is to act as a buffering area along the north wall.

    Charlie

Closets are good for both noise and thermal insulation.  If you put one on the
outside wall, chances are that you will not need a baseboard heater there. If
you put closets on interior walls between bedrooms then a ruckus in one room
will not be heard in the other.

Jim. 

    Re .6.  Yep, one of the teachings of at least one school of 
    "energy-efficient home design" says that the FIRST choice for closet
    location is the outside wall (north, east, or west).   
    
    Seems like a waste of heat to keep all your clothes warm for the
    benefit of the few you put on at any given time.  Besides, most
    indoor clothing has negligible thermal mass and will come up to
    temperature in minutes.

   In my house....
    
    Warm air enters closet when you open it. After you close the door
    the air cools off against outside wall and loses it's moisture as
    condensation against cold wall. Any clothes touching wall in closet
    become cold and DAMP. Nothing worse than removing a suit from the
    back of your closet as you are late for a wedding and finding mold
    growing on the wet sleeves.
    
    Pasco
    
    

  	Does anyone have any comments or experiance with modular
    closet organizers, prepackaged or customized?

    
    	 I installed some of those vinyl covered "refrigerator shelf"
    organizers a while back and have found that they hold up very well.
    Compared to customizing wood shelves and dowel-type hangers they
    installed very easily. There are many different combinations and
    accesories that you can install so my advice would be to visit a 
    store that carries a *complete* line of accesories so that you can 
    get the best idea of what may suit your needs. I picked up a 
    package that included several different shelves and a "suggested" 
    format, but I set my closet up much differently than their suggestions 
    (I found the per-shelf price to be cheaper this way.)
    
    While shopping around I found SPAGS in Shrewsbury Ma. (Ye olde 
    schoolhouse) to have the best price per section but SPAGS prices 
    could be met by a good sale at some local hardware stores. Those
    thing are always on sale, so keep your eyes open.

    
    Glenn

there is a book that Ortho puts out about storage ideas for 
closets or otherwise wasted spaces.  It is at least worth looking at 
while you're standing in a bookstore or hardware store.

    
    There is a place in Woburn, Ma called CALIFORNIA CLOSETS.  	They
    have good ideas on closet space, they also have brochures in the
    office that you could pickup.  Check them out.
    
                                      ^ ^
                                       "
                                      ~~~
    
    
                           

    You gotta watch out for the costs on stuff like closet maid.  It's
    pretty good stuff, but those elaborate layouts you see on the packages
    and ads with several shelves, drawers, various hangers and organizers,
    etc, will probably cost a lot more than it looks like it's worth.
    All the pieces are sold a la carte and you can nickel and dime yourself
    up to $100 easily for one layout.

        

    My closets were too small for the organizer packages so I created
    one from aluminum tubing and a wire shelf.  The closet only extends
    about 1 foot to either side of the door and the usual one rod 5
    feet from the floor was there.  I ripped that out.  Patched up the
    walls and painted.  I then used the aluminum tubing to create a
    double hanging space for 3/4 of the closet and a full length space
    for the remainder.  I then put a wire shelf above this.
    
    I like this better than the closet organizers for a couple of reasons.
    The aluminum tubing is stronger and you can slide metal coat hangers
    on the stuff.  I don't think you can do this with those wire shelves.
    Also, I thought that the plastic coating of the shelves would
    eventually wear off.
    
    The total cost was around $10 for the tubing (2, 8ft sections),
    $9 for the tubing connectors (6 of them), $4 for the shelf and $2
    for shelf connectors.  These are all approximate costs since this
    was a little while back.  All of the materials are available at
    Spag's.

    Phil

    I have an unfinished built-in china cabinet, and need to complete
    this thing before I get thrown out, literally.
    
    This china cabinet was put in by the builder to fill-in the space
    of a clothes closet (room originally a bedroom, now a dining room).
    He boxed-in the closet, put a couple lights in overhead, then
    sheetrocked it, taped it, and compounded and sanded a couple times.
    The problem is, the builder had his "go-fer" do this to save some
    bucks, and he did a lousy job- nothing's square.  I wanted to put
    a full mirror on the back wall and glass shelves, but it's impossible.
    I even had `professional' drywallers come in to estimate finishing
    it, and after the hysterical laughter, they either said forget it,
    or wanted to charge big bucks to `do it over'.
    
    Well, I decided that I'd rather tear this thing apart and give it
    a try myself from scratch.  I've been looking around for help in
    designs or just basic ideas, but no luck.  Basically, I want to
    use the same idea with the mirror and glass shelves, but I want
    to utilize the wasted space on both sides plus the bottom of the
    cabinet.
    
    Also, I'm not sure whether to use sheetrock again or build it out
    of wood.  I really need to see other designs, or need advice, on
    what to do, etc.
    
    Please help, it's cold outside!  Thanks.
    
    John

    Funny, that's one of my projects coming up.  I like your idea of
    the mirrored back.
    
    I had planned basically to 'shoehorn' a standard china cabinet into
    a closet, formerly bedroom now dining room.  That is, from the outside
    there is a glass doored top and drawers on the bottom.  From the
    inside, it looks like a standard china cabinet.  I hadn't even figured
    on the sheetrocking - it's already there in my case.
    
    Why can't you take the maximum square space and build a cabinet
    within the closet?  Where it's not square you shim.  Don't worry
    about the existing surface.  What space is wasted should be no problem.
    The closet I'm working in results in an oversized china cabinet.
    
    I haven't thought this out thoroughly.  I've got a couple of other
    projects I have to finish up.  This one's on the 'list'.

	I've got a framing question for the bathroom I'm remodeling.
     The house is a cape and the bathroom is built from a domer put
    on the back.  With a tub and john on one wall and a vanity on the
    other there's not a whole lot of room for a closet what with the
    roof line and the chimney.  I'd like to make better use of the space
    under the eaves and have come up with this idea.  I'd like to frame
    an opening  in the wall where the eave is located and use the space
    for drawers for blankets, towels and such.  I'm not concerned
    with framing the opening - I know enough to use the proper header
    construction and doubling up on the support studs etc. etc. but right
    in the middle of the wall where I want the opening is a kneewall
    stud.  It looks kind of like this (damn these "graphics")

        
    				/
    			       /!
    			      / !
    			     /  !
    			    /   !
    			   /========
    			  /I	!   I
    			 / I	!   I framed opening
    			/  I	!   I into eave
    				^
    				!--- kneewall stud
    
    
What I want to do is place supports for this rafter on both sides of
    the newly framed opening and then cut the interfering kneewall stud.
     Final construction would look like this:

    				     /
    				    / l
l = added supports for 		   /  l
    rafter			  /   l
    				 /    l
       				/     l
    			       /!     l
    			      / !     l
    			     /  !     l
    			    /   !     l
    			   /========  l
    			  /I	    I l
    			 / I	    I l  framed opening
    			/l I	    I l  into eave
    				

    It looks fine to me. It doesn't seem that I'm loosing any support
    and in fact with the two supports on the rafter rather than one
    seem to be adding to the strength.  But then I'm not a structural
    engineer.   Anyone see anything wrong with this idea?  Is there
    something that I'm overlooking?  Oh yeah, the finalopening will
    be 36" wide.
    
    Thanks,
    
    George

I wasn't aware that a knee wall provided ANY structural support - then again,
there's alot of things I'm not aware of...

Anyhow, if this is indeed the case, I don't see why you'd have to double up on
anything and could simply rip the sucker out of there.

-mark

    re .1
    
    	I wasn't sure about this either but I figured I'd find out about
    worst case.  If it isn't structurally important (other than holding
    up sheetrock) it sure would make things easier.
    
    George
    

    	Your kneewall stud probably isn't structural. A good way to
    check is to take a look at the rest of the eves and see if there
    are any more kneewall studs, if not then you probably don't have
    much to worry about. Also, this kneewall stud sounds like it doesn't
    sit on top of a load bearing wall so transfering the weight of the
    stud to the sides would be another alternative.
    
    	More than likely, the little sucker is only there to hold up
    your sheetrock (or plaster.)
    
    
    Glenn
    

I am converting a loft into a bedroom.  Thus, (as commented elsewhere) it
needs a wardrobe.  The room is fair sized, and has 2-3 cabinets tucked into
the walls, but because the room is half-a-level above everything else, all
the cabinets start at about the 3.5' level, and I can't sink anything into
the walls below that level as the space is occupied by other rooms.  So, I
have to put a closet within the room itself.  I have looked at pre-made
wardrobes, and thought about building one myself (not too hard).  But, the
room isn't huge, and because one wall has a large window, and the roof slants
down from one end to another, high wall perimeter is at a premium.   Worse,
because of unfortuate placement of windows and doors, no corners are
available.  My fear is that a big boxey thing will make it seem smaller.  
This may be a pipe dream, but does anyone have any ideas on how to add small
(say 30" wide x 66" high x 22" deep) wardrobe capacity to a room in a
spacious, (airy?) kind of way?   Its a neat room to live in, just no obvious 
place for a traditional closet.  All ideas gladly welcomed....

thanx	./j 

[looked, but couldn't find prior reference, but may have mis-looked. please
point if appropriate) 

    Jeff,
    
    This is what you get for spending that money on the staircase. 
    You were just asking for it.  One thing leads to another which 
    leads to another....  Pretty soon you will be putting on a dormer
    so you can put the closet where the window is, then you will...
    
    Stan {;-)

    
      You might spend some time at one of those closet organizer design
    stores.  The have all kinds of gadgets to utilize space, especially
    knee walls and open areas.  Open area, free standing arrangements
    must be kept neat!  If one of you is a neatnik......

Ortho has a book on storage space ideas.  It's usually racked with the 
gardening, carpentry, etc, books.

In defense of "pre-made wardrobes":

They come in all conceivable shapes and sizes, and cubic-inch-for-cubic-inch 
they make better use of space than equivalent built-ins because their walls 
are thinner.  For our turn-of-the-century house, antique wardrobes were the
clear choice.

Ways to make them light and airy:
- get one with a mirrored door
- get one with high, spindly feet
- get one made of light-colored wood, or painted a light color

Antique stores (especially ones that specialize in furniture rather than
bric-a-brac) usually have better selection of shapes and sizes than
new-furniture stores, at comparable or better prices.  One caveat:  many
antique wardrobes predate the widespread use of hangers; clothes were hung
on hooks.  So many smaller wardrobes aren't deep enough for hangers.  Take
a hanger along when you go wardrobe-shopping. 

Here's a simple scheme: put in two closet bars, one above the other.
66" ought to be enough to hang your shirts in two levels.  What you
do with your pants, I don't know, probably fold them up in drawers
(so to speak).

	Larry

    
    If it works for some people to divide a closet in half vertically
    by putting in two closet poles, could it work for you to build just
    the top half of a closet into the space that starts at 3.5'?

    
    RE: .4
    
    Dave, that is a good idea (particulary for my turn of the century
    house).  Could you mention a few of the antique shops that you
    know carry them (especially any reasonably priced ones)?
    
    -tm
    

Sure, here's a quick list of some places where I've seen suitable stuff:

    Encores, on Rt. 2A in Acton across from A.C. Chevrolet
    The barn in Acton, on Rt. 2A about 1/2 mile west of Rt. 27
    A place on Littleton Common
    A place on Moody St. in Waltham, across from Waltham Camera and Stereo

If you're in a hurry to get the furniture into place, going the antique route 
probably isn't a good idea.  But if you've got some time, spend a pleasant
half hour at each of several antique stores every couple of months.  Talk
with the proprietors about what you're looking for, and they'll watch the
market and call you when they find something.  Learn as much as you can about 
the type of furniture you want, by reading, looking, and talking.

If you're looking for bargains, you probably won't find them - antique store 
owners that underprice their merchandise don't stay in business long.  If
you're looking for value, antique furniture is tough to beat. 

I know several people that have had good success at antique auctions.

RE the past few...

The room is likely to be used be a female-type person.  It already has 
a small upper-half-height closet with rod, I'd like to put in 
something a bit higher.
/j

    
    I've seen beautiful wardrobes at Encores - all were pretty major
    expenses/investments.
    

    	I need a 4' closet rod, and I need it to be strong.  My wife
    packs a closet and causes normal closet bars and dowels to bend
    and break.  I set up the walls so I can connect the rod directly
    to a stud, but I'm not sure of what to use as a rod.   I was thinking
    of going to my local plumbing supply store and buying 1" galvanized
    pipe.  They will cut it to length and thread it.  I can use the
    round threaded connectors to screw it to the wall.  Does anyone
    have any cheaper ideas?
    	I bought two wardrobes and love them.  Antique ones can run
    you $500 and up.  I picked mine up from an old lady in Newton for
    $100.  Check the papers in neighborhoods with lots of old houses
    for ads.
    					=Ralph=

    RE .-1
    
    What I have done in the past is to use standard closet pole with
    additional support brackets.  Within the 4', you chould be able
    to place two supports in the middle of the bar with the ends supported
    by wood against the walls.  See rough diagram below:
    			
    		Closet support brackets
    		       /  \
    		      /    \
    	+-+				+-+
	| |       ||         ||		| |
  	| |=============================| |
    	| |  				| |
    	+-+				+-+
	 ^				 ^
    	 |				 |
    	Wood board nailed/screwed to wall.
    

    The wood on the walls should be cut out as follows:
    
    Side 1:	+-------+	  Side 2:	+-------+
    		|	|			|	|
    		|     __|			|      /
    		|    |__|			|     |_/
    		|	|			|	|
    		|	|			|	|
    		+-------+			+-------+

    The diagrams above are trying to show that side 1 should have a
    hold the size of the closet pole with side two having a slot in
    which you can slide the pole.  This arrangement will prevent the
    pole from sliding side to side.

    I just used some 3/4 inch galvanized pipe.  There's no need to get
    it threaded.  What I did was take a small chunk of wood (I think
    I used Oak scraps) about 3x3 inches, bored a hole in the middle
    of it and then screwed it to the wall, one on each end.  Worked
    very well and it was cheap.
    
    
    -bill

Re:  2256.9

>  The room is likely to be used be a female-type person.  

 Transvestite ?   
 Very effeminate man ?   
 If you mean "woman" why don't you just say so.




Henry      (who_may_be_a_misogamist_but_who_is_not_such_a_
         misogynist_that_he_can't_bring_himself_to_use_that_word)

    getting back to the closet pole question...
    
    I like to use the aluminum tubing antenna masts.  They are strong
    and not as heavy as the steel pipe.  Available at your local home
    center or Radio S**k in 4 (or sometimes 6) foot lengths.
    
    	-Barry-
    

    
    We are contemplating making some interior wall moves in our house.
    We will basically steal some footage from one bedroom and use it
    to enlarge the master bedroom.   This will require that we move
    the closets in the two small bedrooms.
    
    My question is : what is considered an adequate sized closet?  The
    rooms are small (about 10X12) and are the 2nd/3rd bedrooms of the
    house.  Right now, their closets are about 5 - 5.5 foot.  It is
    my impression that these are good sized closets.  The design we
    have in mind would make one closet 3.5 foot and the other 4 foot.
    Is this too small?  I know that "small" is a relative term,  but
    I would like to get some general opinions.
    
    Thanks
    
    Sherry
    

      Your right, it's relative.  It also depends on what you're used to
      having. I grew up in an older house with very limited closet space
      --  in the 3.5-4 foot range you mention -- but I whouldn't want to
      go back to this.  I' recommend 5-6 feet per person --  i.e.  10-12
      feet  for  a bedroom intended for two.  This assumes that you have
      that much space again in the attic/basement/garrage for off season
      storage  of seasonal clothing.  Otherwise I'd want a large walk-in
      closet. 
      
      On the other hand.... Think about your closet for a minute. If its
      like mine about half of it is filled with cloths you haven't  worn
      for  at  lest  a  year.  Now the question becomes "Is it easier to
      build a large closet or to give that  unused  stuff  to  charity?"
      Thats  a  highly subjective decision.  
      
      Objectively, I think you'll find that most new construction has at
      least 8-10 feet for the "master" bedroom and at least 4-5 feet  in
      other  bedrooms.  This is a guess -- I haven't been running around
      with a tape measure.
      
      Bottom  line  --  if  you can squeeze in another 1-2 feet of space
      you'll probably be happier.  You'll also have a good point if/when
      you come to the point of selling.

Our new house will just about be ready in 6-8 weeks time.  Last week I met with
a representative of a closet company to work with them on organizing the closets
in the house, especially the ones in the bedroom.  Their estimates came out to
be $1000/- for each closet, the master bedroom (his and hers) and the 3 other
bedrooms.  I thought this was a little too much since the shelves are only 
painted particle boards.

What do you all think of the estimates?  Can I do something like this myself?
Is there a kit or some such available?   What tools would I need?  As you can 
probably tell from these questions I am a novice "DIY" and am not afraid to give
it a shot, especially if you kind folks would guide me.

Thanx in advance.

    What's that particle board made of?  Teak?  Shreaded dollar bills?
    
    Check out just about any home improvement store or even the large
    department stores.  You should find literally a dozen closet organizer
    kits ranging from $25 to $250.  
    
    If you want to get creative, check out a book store or your library for
    a book on storage projects.  You'll probably find a book with plans,
    materials lists, even a section on tools and their use.
    
    Don't forget the KISS principle.  My "closet organizer" consists of
    the standard pole-and-shelf you normally see in closets plus two units
    of those wire baskets on wheels.  (Each unit has 3 wire basket drawers.)
    Total cost was around $85.  
    
    
    John B.

RE: -1.

Yes, $1000/- per closet.  And my reaction was the same as yours.  I didn't pay
as much as their combined amount for my kitchen counters - and those are made
of Corian!!!

Basically, what their plans/design for each closet outlined was a combination
of racks, shelves, and drawers from top to bottom.  Once completed they look
pretty neat as everything has its own place etc.

The regular closets with a simple rod and one shelf over it can get pretty messy
and overloaded sometimes and hence I was looking for the organizers.

Thanx for your suggestions, I am going to check out some stores.  I just knew 
there had to be a better and cheaper way to get what I want.

    
    When I first read your note, I thought you said $1000 for all of
    them.  After reading .1 I realized, that you meant $5000!
    
    For $5000, you could buy some damn nice hardwood plus some good
    power tools to boot.  I'd definitely DIY!
    
    -tm
    

    If you can get hold of a JC Penney catalog you can buy whatever
    components you  wish and DIY. Just looking at the displays in the
    book will give you ideas. I would guess that Sears would have something
    similar if that's your only choice.
    
    Lynn
    
                                       
    

    The stuff in my closet isn't worth $1000.
    
    	Marlene

    This is the latest fleece-the-yuppies by inventing solutions and
    by implication convincing consumers that they indeed have a problem.
    
    Custom closet design is big business these days.
    
    BTW, the DIY stuff is not immune from the phenomenon.  "Closet maid"
    and other such modular stuff is basically made of plastic coated
    steel wire which cost mimimally to produce.  By the time you buy
    shelf A, bracket B, fasteners C, widget D, etc in any quantity,
    you will be spending more than you think (certainly more than it
    looks like it's worth).  But of course you will still beat $1000/closet
    by a long shot.

    Talking to a friend who went the Penney's route she spent less than
    $80 per closet. (this is your standard double-door closet found
    in newer homes)   I saw the stuff and it looks like that particle
    board-type stuff(sorry can't be technical and eat lunch at the same
    time). Ithought it looked ok, sturdy,etc. Apparently the components
    are on sale now, giving a discount for 5 or more items purchased
    in an order. If I ever feel the need to get "organized" I'll buy
    from them.
    
    Lynn
    

re. previous reply

Thanx, Lynn.  I will check JC Penny out this evening.  

    re Closet Maid kits
    
    I just installed 4 of these kits in my new addition.  Kmart and
    others often have sales on these and we got ours for about $30 each,
    average.  One of them was for 10 ft long closet, the others were
    for 5-8 foot closets.
    
    While you may think these are overpriced, I found them to be real
    timesavers (and that's worth something).  The kits all have good
    instructions, come with drilling templates, and even a phillips
    head bit for your drill.  They have an 800 number to call for help
    or parts (I was missing a few fasteners and they sent them right
    out).
    
    If someone is inexperienced or only moderately handy, these kits
    would be a good solution.  Even though I'm capable of designing
    and building my own units, I had these kits installed in less time
    than it would have taken me to design something.  Never mind running
    around getting the materials, etc.
                                      
    Bob

    We had Closetech of Shrewsbury, MA design 1 closet for us last year.
    It cost about $500 and was definitely worth it.  The closet is
    a walk-in style, and has a partially slanted roof (Cape house).
    They made excellent use of the space.  We have 2 long-hang areas,
    a large double hang area, 4 shelves, and 2 long shelves.  It's portable
    in the sense that if we move, we can take it with us.
    
    While I wouldn't recommend spending this much for an ordinary shaped closet,
    I am happy that we did it with this one.
    
    I'm not sure I spelled the company's name accurately, but they
    advertise in the Worcester newspaper.
                                                  
    Robin

    Grossmans puts the wire type stuff on sale often. 

    The smartest closet thing we ever did in our house was to put a second,
    higher shelf above the original shelf in each closet (had the
    lumberyard cut up the plywood - a whole sheet won't fit in or on my
    tiny car anyhow); it took one evening to install the additional shelves
    (in four closets; it's a small house).  The added shelves plus the
    drawers under our platform bed pretty much take care of most of the
    "overflow".
    
    This won't help much if you are not very tall, though!

    RE: .9
    
    I second the recommendation for Closet Maid ( and some other
    manufacturer with a similar product, whose name escapes me at the
    moment ) for ease of installation and efficient closet organization.
    We've done two 7 1/2 foot closets so far.  We have a 12 foot closet 
    that we'd like to do now.  The delimma is whether to get one 10 ft
    unit of two 5 - 8 ft units.  For $30. on sale, though, I would say 
    this organizer is definitely worth it.
    
    Valerie

    Have a ball and maybe combine the plastic coated wire system with
    the particle board units.....another trick is to get the heavey
    cardboard shelves and put on the floor under the racks  for all
    your shoes.  I fit two pairs in each cubie hole and two sets
    of shelves fit side by side with nine compartments each!  REAL
    closet stretcher/utilization of space.

    My dream would be to have a whole room devoted to clothes.  I 
    am a clothes-aholic!

    You really can organize closets real cheap at Zayres, Bradleys,
    Mars, Caldors, etc when they have sales....even full price they
    are a bargain compared to the closet houses.

    Good luck and happy arranging.  Another thing to think of getting
    to stretch your space are the hangers that hold six shirts/blouses,
    the hangers that hold six skirts, the hangers that hold four pants/
    slacks, and the hanger for belts.  These all do their job in the
    space of one hanger! 

    justme....jacqui

re: 2nd shelves

I agree these are a super space saver.  BUT - for all those who insists on
following the electrical code to the letter, these are illegal since there's
a minimum space requirement between the bulb and the shelf.

I guess the theory is if the shelf is too high some bozo will pile their stuff
up to the ceiling and touch the bulb - hence a fire hazard.

-mark

>a minimum space requirement between the bulb and the shelf.

Yeah, There is a minimum space requirement: 
See NEC 410-8. Fixtures in Clothes Closets.

Basically it says maintain 18 inches of clearance between fixture and storage 
area. Flush, recessed and fluorescent fixtures must have at least 6 inches of
clearance.

BTW, Most local codes also require globe or flush fixtures in closets. 
No pendants.


Ross

    None of my closets have lights inside them anyways.  Nor do they really
    need to: none of the closets are more than about 18" deep, and the
    light from the room outside each one is plenty to see the closet
    contents.

    
    	I found an interesting Ad in Boston Globe from a company called
    	California Closet Company. Some of the highlights in the Ad are
    
    	o Custom design to fit your need.
    	o 1 day installation (Free consultation and estimate in your
          home).
        o Custom DIY kits.
        o Electric carousels available, and some more.
        
    
    	Has anybody tried stuff from these people ??????????
    
    
    	Nagi.

    RE: .-1
    
    >         o Electric carousels available, and some more.


    Do they also sell the electric shoe elevator?  It's just getting
    too hard to bend down to pickup those shoes every morning... ;-)
    
    Was this "electric carousel" for residential use?  Not that I could
    use one in my 2 foot closets!

    	I bought a wire closet organizer kit at IKEA for $19,
    an extra 2ft shelf at Som. Lumber for $3.69, plus some extra strong
    wall fittings for about $5. Did an 8ft closet in half a day, and
    really doubled the amount of stuff that fit. You can do your own
    design after looking at some "storage ideas" books in the library,
    and customize for under $100 per closet easy. Plus, it's really easy
    to do, and I am not too handy to begin with.
    
    DG

      Ther is a new store in Leominster called the Closetworks. Its
    located in the Wood building on Main street. I highly recommend
    the store for some really great ideas on different ways to organize
    any closet you may want!
    
               REK

I used them to add space to two closets in my (at the time)
1 bedroom condominium. It was three years ago, so my memory may be
a little fuzzy.

I called up an made an appointment for someone to come over
and make an estimate.

I had already had ideas, and a couple of sketches. I tried very hard,
before the salesman showed up, to understand what I needed.
Also, the project was DIY.

When he came over we talked about needs, and he explained
what could and couldn't be done. He took some measurements. They
were very willing to customize the length of the shelves to fit
my needs. As I recall the width of the organizers are standard.
Of course, he made an estimate. The appointment took about
a half hour.

That particular saleman was polite, and wasn't pushy.

The product was available when they said (I picked up the
organizers) and they fit into the closets like a glove. There was
only 1 miscut shelf, and they glady replaced it.

I liked the product. It was a good investment. I really needed the
space when I got married and my wife's clothes moved in!

I think DIY saved 50% or so off the installed cost. I paid
$400 ($450?) for two closets (9 linear feet total, divided into
5 shelf columns) and increased closet space by a quadzillion, well
maybe a factor of 4.

I'd do it again, if there weren't so many other home improvements
to take care of first.

dave

    I'm looking for a company called 'TRU-SPACE' that specializes in wood
    laminate storage system for closets.  Any help locating the company
    would be appreciated.
    
    Phil

    I found the phone number forTRU-SPACE this weekend, its 419-352-4455.

    This note seems to fit....
    
    The roof has a 12/12 pitch, thus I end up with kneewalls in both
    upstairs bedrooms.  Since it's a relatively small house, and I haven't
    started on a playroom, we need more space to at least store the kids
    toys, etc.  Anyway, the kneewalls are currently used as closets. 
    However, there's only one swinging door, and you've got to crawl about
    6 feet to get to the far end.  
    
    What I'd like to do, is tear out the 4 foot door and wall, and put in
    4' sliders, so the entire closet could be opened up for easier access.
    The width of the closet shouldn't be a problem, the question I've got
    is around the height...Can sliders be easily cut down to about 4' high?
    It seems simple enough...A small header, tracks, and the sliders.  Any
    potential problems/pros and cons would be appreciated.
    
    

    
    If is a cheep hollow core slider door, you might have to rework it.
    or, you could always make a slider door yourself.  I've seen a
    nice setup using a bi-fold door system.
    
    JD

    I'm converting the guest bedroom into a study.  We'll put in a
    hidabed couch for those times when another bed is needed, but
    we could really use a place for the computer/reading room/homework.
    
    I want to make the closet into a desk/work area.  I can't find any
    reference in here for this type of work.
    
    Anyone have experience doing this ?  
    
    
    Thanks,
    
    Greg

    My uncle designed something clever along this line which he had
    built for his study, which you could adapt for a closet.  I'll try
    to draw it.
    
    -----------
    |
    | cabinet
    | space
    |
    |
    |                  top  
    -----------+_________________+
               |                 |
    more       |                 |-
    cabinets   |                 |
               |                 | leg
    
    The two "+" are piano hinges.  The "top" and "leg" pieces are hinged so
    that they fold up (using a handle where I have the "-") into the 
    cabinet. When folded down, they make a desk.  (The hinge for the leg
    is arranged such that when folded down it hits against the top when it
    gets to the 90 degree angle, so it doesn't collapse.)  When folded up,
    it just looks like another cabinet door.  He has his PC monitor on
    a swing-arm inside the cabinet and he lifts out his keyboard for use.
    
    I hope I have described this well enough for you to get the idea.  I
    think it would work well in a closet, too.
    
    				Steve

    
    Another thing you might consider is the "Spur" brand  of modular
    shelving.  The supports are coated steel and take about 180lb when
    screwed to a stud. Home depot has some laminated pine shelving that's
    about 1" thick and varying widths up to 32" which makes a good
    "desktop". You can use different widths & lengths of laminated particle
    board to make shelves, terminal supports etc. above the desktop. It was
    about $55 to install this in an alcove to make a PC work area:
    
    	36x30 "desktop"
        2 36x10 shelves
    	3 24" spurs
    	6 8" spurs
        3 36" shelf supports.
    
    Colin