Conference 7.286::home_work

    I'm looking for places that have a Makita (or comparable) power
    miter saw on sale.   Obviously, Spags is the first place to look,
    but occasionally others even beat Spags...   
    
    So, dredge up this weekend's ads.   If you've seen one somewhere,
    let me know and I'll track it down.
    
    I'll need it this week, and am even willing to fight the
    day-after-Thanksgiving crouds to get one.
    
    (Posted to TOOLS and HOME_WORK). 

    	Check out Town Paint Supply in Framingham, Edgel Rd. I was talking
    to a builder and he said they are pushing to be a leading Mikita
    dealer and theyre prices are very good!!
        
      

    Town Paint had the Makita LS-1000 10 in Mitre Saw for 189.99 in
    September.  Besides Framingham, they have stores in Beverly, Marlboro,
    Natick, and Malden.
    
    Marty
    

    Don't forget Ryobi.  I think that it goes like:
    
    Milwaukee makes it and it costs "X".
    Makita copies Milwaukee's design and sells it for .75 * "X".
    Ryobi copies Makita's copy and sells it for .75 * .75 * "X".
    
    -joet

    Also see the TOOLS conference.

    Also try the Tool Warehouse (I think) at the intersection of Shrewsbury
    Street and Route 9 in Worcester, maybe 1.5-2 miles from Spag's on
    Route 9 west, turn left at 4th light and it's immediately on your
    left in a large brick building.
    
    All these people sell are tools, every make, model and for whatever
    job you're doing.  It's fun just to browse.
    
    Pete

    re: .5
    
    That's "Worcester Factory Tool Outlet" and their prices are usually
    about 30% higher than Spag's for big stuff and up to double for
    sockets, torque wrenches, etc. 
    
    -joet

    I KNOW THIS  A LITTLE LATE FOR THE "CHRISTMAS" RUSH.  BUT AUBUCON
    (SP?) IN HUDSON AND MARLBORO ARE HAVING A SALE ON THEIR MIKITA TOOLS.
     
    MIGHT CHECK THERE.
    

    I got it at Spag's (where else) but before their sale.   The $15.00
    difference is countable, but it wasn't worth the wait.

ShopSmith Mark V
    
    Does anyone out there have ownership of a Shopsmith Mark V?  I've
    been thinking about buying one for my husband for Xmas and I want
    to know if they are as good as I hear/read.  Any feedback and/or
    suggestions would be most appreciated.
    
    Thank-you
    
    Diane Taylor
    MLO5-5/E45
    223-7769
    

There's a long (about 100 replies) discussion about Shopsmith in
the TOOLS conference.  (I've forgotten the node; maybe someone
else knows it.)  I'd suggest that you look there first.  The
general consensus seems to be negative i.e. if you have the
space, then buy separate tools.

R.

    The conference is located {delni,derep}::tools
    I own the father of the markV the ER-10 which was made from around
    1946 and still works fine I like it alot and use it all of the time.
    This tool is very good for someone that is a planner. The reason
    i say this is that the designb of the tool requires a great 
    deal of changing around to do different jobs and can be a real
    pain if you dont plan (like ME).
    Another point of intrest is the only place you can buy many
    of the accessorys is shopsmith a real pain if you are half-way
    thru something and have to order parts,ect.
    
    I would watch the classified section of the paper and get a used
    one seems there is always one listed. Dont pay more than $1000
    for the standard machine the basic price runs around $1400 but
    shopsmith drops its price every so often to around $900.
    
    All in all I rate the system average. Given the choice I would prefer
    having the seperate tools: table saw,drill press,lathe,boring tool,
    sander.

    
    	My Dad has one - the same one from when we were growing up and
    he still uses it.  The only problem is that you have to keep changing
    things around, but once it's set up it does excellent work.  But
    if you're working on a project you have to do ALL of one type of
    job, then all of the next type, etc., and hope that you don't have
    to make the first job a "little more perfect" after you've started
    the second job.  More than once Dad has said that it would be easier
    with separate tools, but they take up too much space.  So he's become
    very precise in his measurements and adjustments and plans ahead!
    
    	All in all, it's a good tool if you're lacking space and have
    lots of patience....especially the patience!
    
      Conni
    

My father has a twenty year old or so Shopsmith, and it is still going strong.
It's lasted through building my parent's house, my uncle's house, and my
brother's house, and I'm going to steal it next year to build a house!

As stated, the drawback is that you have to setup for each task, but it is a
*great* machine for the money and the space! 

Jim.

There are several notes about this in the TOOLS notes file.  It has keywords, 
so you can dir /key=tablesaw(s) (I can't remember if there's an s on the 
keyword).

Paul

Just to add to .-1, SPAGS is NOT the place to buy things like table saws.
Lots of tips on TOOLS as to the best places to shop...

-mark

    Faith and Begorra, Mark, and you a confirmed spagaholic -god luv
    ya-
    
    See TOOLS note 114.*. The Delta table saw was a best buy at Spag.s

    
    
    				herb

    re .2.   My experience does not agree.  The big ticket items at
    Spag's are almost always as good a deal as you can find, and that
    includes all the mail-order places.

    Why is Spags a dump?  The area where the big bench tools are in
    the schoolhouse is as neat as any other department or hardware store.
    

..but it helps you get the cheapest price.  Go to Spags, and get evidence of 
their price.  Then bring it to the Tool Warehouse in Hudson, NH, and they'll 
match the price, with no sales tax!

Paul

    We purchased our Delta table saw from Spag's because it was the
    best price at the time.  There were some defective parts in the
    carton but Spag's replaced them.  
         Delta has not authorized Spag's to be a distributorship.  
    It is strictly a buy and sell operation.  At other stores, Delta
    services its goods.

I just spotted the contractors saw at Summerville Lumber for $550.  Not bad...

-mark

    
    I saw it there too. That "not bad" price is without the motor. Motor
    is $110
    
    						Mark
    

    I am interested in buying a 3 3/38" cordless mini circular saw.
Makita model #5081DW, specs: 1000 rpm, 9.6 volts, recharges in one hour,
price $139 (Spags).

It is used primarily for finish work, siding, etc. The question:
will the torque and speed of a machine like this affect the quality
of the cut? Will it bog down? 

From advertisements on TV, they make the cordless screwdrivers look 
great. Apparently they don't get bogged down by low torque. 
                    
Although I will be dealing with mostly soft woods, I would like to expect 
that I could cut through hardwood trim when the need arises.

Thanks in advance,

	Steve 

    
    	I have not used a rechargeable circular saw but I have used
    a number of different rechargeable screwdriver/drill tools. I have
    found that these tools are great for those jobs that would take
    less time than you would use by pulling out an extension cord and
    setting up a power drill. For the most part these "rechargeables"
    are for very small jobs or jobs that are not near an AC outlet.
    My personal opinion is that your $139 would be better spent on a
    120 volt version circular saw that doesn't need to be recharged
    after only a few cuts. 
    
    	You are on the right track though with Makita. If you are
    definitely set on buying a rechargeable Makita has a good reputation
    for both DC and AC power tools.
    
    
    One man's humble opinion,
                      Glenn

    I bought the bigger rechargeable Makita (six and a quarter I think)
    and find it to be an excellent tool.  I've used it not only for
    the "simple" crosscutting of siding, but also ripping.  Mostly ripping
    plywood and/or siding, but on occassion even a 2 x 4.  I've also
    used it to crosscut a couple dozen 2 x 8s.  Its slower than my
    Milwaukee circular saw, but it does the job.
    
    As for the recharge rate, mine can crosscut 100 or so 2 x 4s on
    a single charge.  For 1 inch siding (crosscut), expect around 150
    or so boards per charge.  If you cut a bunch and then recharge the
    saw, it'll be ready before you finish your beer and install the
    boards.  Of course ripping a few 12 footers means more frequent
    recharges.
    
    I do agree that a recharg. saw is no replacement for an AC saw.
    However, it is an excellent complement.  Especially when its wet
    outside.
    
    On the price, I paid $120 for mine at Currier Lumber (Hudson Tool
    Warehouse wanted $198 and refused to acknowledge the Currier price
    as legitimate).
    

    I checked the conference for outlets of Makita tools and it mentioned
    Town Paint hardware stores as having good prices on Makita tools.
    And yes they do... $40 cheaper for this tool (on sale now) than
    Spag's.
    
    sd

	My father has a Makita saw like the one you describe.  I haven't used
    it, but he says it's one of the best tool buys he has ever made.
    (I thought the three craftsman power tools he bought in '56 in a flood
    sale for 100 bucks was the best.....10" table saw, Drill press and 36" 
    wood lathe...with motors!)  But I digress.....He has used th Makits
    for cutting trim around windows and the cuts are very smooth.
    The blade is thin with approx. 60 teeth.  He said it worked
    well cutting 1" pine shelving.
    
    I have used his Makita Power driver/drill. #6200? It is so convenient
    to use.  I have drilled brick and then driven screws into the brick
    with it.  A quality tool that performs well.  You get about 1 hour
    out of a battery charge.  The batteries can be used from the charger
    before they are fully charged. 

    I tried out the mini saw Sunday.  I used it to cut pieces of plywood,
    wafer board, and exhaust pipe (using an abrasive wheel).  The saw
    worked well on the plywood making smooth cuts.  None of the typical
    plywood splintering.  The abrasive wheel cut the pipe easily, and
    the saw was much easier to use under the car than my skill saw.
                           
    The model number of the driver/drill mentioned in .4 is #6102

            [Also posted in WOODWORKING_AND_TOOLS conference.]
                      
What do you bandsaw owners DO with your bandsaw? What kind of cuts?
What are you building, etc.

The reason I am asking is someone just gave me a Delta bandsaw and I
don't know whether or not I'd ever use it. I don't do any cabinet or
woodworking per se, about all I have done is build a deck/porch, a
fireplace and mantle, and bookcases/stereo cabinets. For all of these
projects my Delta contractor's saw has been more than enough.

So what can one DO with a bandsaw?

VCS

    If you can't find anything to do with it you can give it to me (8-) !

    But seriously, a bandsaw is useful for making CURVED cuts whereas a table
    saw is useful for STRAIGHT cuts. It can also cut plastic, wood, or metal
    with the right blades - although changing blades is a bit of a hassle. It
    will handle very thick workpieces with ease. Also, if you're cutting
    something irregularly shaped, you'll find it safer than a table saw since it
    will tend to hold the work to the table, where the table saw will throw it
    back in your face without an elaborate jig. It's sort of a sabre-saw with
    much more accuracy, capacity, and capability. 

    You won't find it useful for standard straight construction projects
    like decks and bookcases, until you run across the need for an unusual
    cut - then it will be the answer to all your problems. 

    Your bandsaw can resaw wood -- say if you have a Shaker clock plan
    that calls for a 1/4" thick back panel.  Fairly unpleasant if not
    impossible proposition for a table saw.
    
    dq

Bandsaws can bring out your creativity!     Ever make a bandsaw box?
They're a piece of cake, and make people think you are a really good
craftsman, even the ones who should know better! 8^)

But seriously, if you ever decide to build more ornate pieces, you'll
love the versatility of the bandsaw.  

One thing, however.   The tension scale on the back of the bandsaw will 
not be accurate.   You will almost always have to tension the blade farther
than the scale says to.  There is a method of measuring the pitch of
the blade when plucked, that will tell you if you've got it right, but
I'm tonedeaf 8^), so I just tell by the cut it makes.

Resawing wood (as per .-1) is a good use for the bandsaw, but only really
useful if you have a planer, or like to sand! 8^)

If you keep it, buy some good blades... compared to the tablesaw, they're
cheap!

Have fun!

Bob

    I have received a circular saw for Xmas and since I already have
    one and am quite satisfied with it, I was wonder if anyone had some
    ideas on what to do with the extra short of returning it.
    
    I could really use a table saw or a power mitre. Is there any way
    to convert your basic B+D 2hp Circ. saw to one of these more desirable
    items? Are there, perhaps kits for this? Where can I go to see?
    I have gone to the Local HW store and they say they think there
    may be kits for this but they don't have them or know who makes
    them?

    Or is this just plain unrealistic?
    
    Dave Kinney

>>  Or is this just plain unrealistic?
  
    Yes!

    Years ago my father had a table (either Craftsman or B&D) that had
    clamps in the bottom and an outlet on a side with a switch and its
    own wire. This allowed him to attach his circular saw under the table, 
    lock the trigger on and switch the saw on and off at the box. There's
    a good chance they still make such an animal. Check Sears or your
    local B&D distributor. 

    Check the Sears Tool Catalogue. I know they have them for the miters
    but not sure about as a table saw, but I would imagine they would.
    Can't vouch for how they work, though.

    There is a company call "Hirsh" that makes both a table saw conversion
    and a miter box conversion kit. I've seen them at Grossman's. I've seen
    a miter box kit in a Sears catalog. I think they go for around $40.

Here's a negative vote on the Hirsch table-saw converter.  I got one for my
Skil saw, thinking, probably as yourself, it might be an cheap way to get
table-saw accuracy.  Mine is five years old and maybe the design has changed.

It's top-heavy, so trying to rip, say, anything that requires you to hold one
end, balance the other on the table, and push - the table can tip.

It's hard to adjust the blade when it's mounted under the table - either the
depth of cut or the angle of the blade.  Reaching under the table and figuring
everything out up-side-down just doesn't cut it.  (sorry)

I'm using the table now as just a table, and a wobbly one at that.

For double the price of the Hirsch table (you really should triple it) you can
get an inexpensive "real" table saw that shouldn't disappoint you for a while.

    A couple of years ago I purchased a table from Sears. It only takes
    a few minutes to install my circular saw onto to the table for use
    as a table saw. It is no where near the precision of a good table
    saw but for the type of work that I have been doing it is just fine.
    

    RE: .0
    
>    I could really use a table saw or a power mitre. Is there any way

    The real question here is what do you intend on doing with this
    "setup"?  Do you require good accuracy?  Because you aren't going
    to get it.  And the other question is do you have the money to *invest*
    in the right tool or just enough to get by with a setup like this.
    Analyze your needs and resources first.
    
    Personally, I'd return it and put the money towards a good power
    miter box.  I consider my power miter box to be one of my most useful
    tools.  I don't think you'd be disappointed.
    

    My $.02

    I'm hardly an expert (not even an amateur), but it strikes me that
    the only reason this sort of table would be attractive is that it
    lets you use one motor for two purposes.  Given that you already
    have two motors, it makes much less sense.  The cost of this
    pseudo-table saw to you isn't merely the incremental cost of the
    table, but is really the cost of the saw plus the cost of the table.
    
    Any reasonable dealer will accept your explanation that the saw
    was a gift, and either give you a refund or credit towards another
    purchase.
    
       Gary

    I received one of the small "portable" tables saws as a gift several
    years ago.  I find that the accuracy is poor at best.  The guide
    does not line up square and the calibrations are just stickers that
    you stick on.
    
    I agree that a power mitre box would be a better buy or throw in
    some more $$$ and get a real table saw.  Look in the want adds for
    a used one or look into DELNI::WOODWORKING_AND_TOOLS for a discussion
    of the pros and cons of various tools.
  

    Over the weekend I saw two adds for table saws.  One was for an
    8" Makita at Sommerville for about $250, the other a 10"er at the
    local True Value store for about $130.
    
    What could be the differnce? What should I compare on them?
    
    /Art

    As mentioned earlier, check DELNI::WOODWORKING_AND_TOOLS.  There
    are several discussions about brands, features - pro and con,
    blades, maintainence, etc.  (Hit keypad 7 to add to your notebook.)
    
    Probably there is a difference in the power of the motor, whether the
    table is cast or molded, aluminum or iron table, how well the table is
    machined, how easy it is to make adjustments, the warranty, homeowner
    vs. professional grade, ability to set the fence parallel to the blade,
    whether the blade is parallel to the groves in the table, whether the
    table tilts or the blade tilts, ability to get it serviced, ability to
    find add-ons and attachments, brand name vs. off brand, and as you
    already mentioned the size of the blade (thereby determining the
    maximum size stock you can cut). 
    
    For the prices you listed you are probalby talking about portable
    table saws.  Depending on the size of your workshop, size of your
    wallet, and the amount you plan on using your saw, you might find
    the portables enough to handle your needs.  A full sized saw provides
    a firm base which is less likely to fall over and doesnt move when
    you push stock through the saw.  

    
    RE: .15
    
    And once you've decided on what you want, check Spag's and mail
    order tool outlets for the best prices.  Notice Sommerville Lumber
    wasn't included in the first sentence!  I've never seen a place
    over-price stuff like that them!

    There's a coupon in today's Boston Globe for $10 off any $50 purchase
    at Spag's.  So you can save even more.
    
    	Marlene

    I recently purchased the Makita at a local place called reliable tool.
    I paid 249.95 and got a carbide blade thrown in. 
    I am very happy with the saw. I considered the delta contractors but I
    didn't relish the thought of putting out 600 bucks for something i will
    use 3 times a month. I feel that for my need the Makita is more than
    enough swa and the quality relative to sears and the like is far
    superior. It is well constructed and as acurate as I will ever need .
    As far as its longevity that remains to be seen, but my G2 tells me it
    is a survivor.
    
      Bill
    

    
    If you decide on the Makita, Spag's is selling it for $220.  And
    then with the $10 coupon (this week only) it's $210 so you'll save
    a lot of money to spend on a couple of good blades!

    I had one of the cheapies once.  It was fine for light, imprecise work
    but it cooked on the first 2x4 I tried to rip.  I replaced it with the
    Makita, which was then $180 at Town Paint & Supply in Marlboro (bought
    two in fact, the second for my daughter).  While I am happy with it,
    Delta has a similar 10" saw for usually $20 more.  The Delta appears to
    have a much better fence and table.  Also, a 8" Freud blade costs more
    than their 10" and the 10" is frequently on sale.  (The Freud blade
    leaves a much smoother cut than the Makita).  So if you buy a good
    blade the price difference closes. 
    
    Gary

    I have had my Makita for about 5 years now, not a single problem.
    If you carry the saw around it is much lighter than the Delta
    small saw.
    							Chris

    ...heresy coming - purists hit NEXT UNSEEN  ;^)
    
    Not having much extra $$$ when we moved in, and owning a
    circular saw, but wanting to increase it's flexability, I built
    a table for upside down mounting.  
    
    For the investment, it works great.
    
    I scrounged (rescued?) some 3/4 ply from the shipping dock,
    boxed it, screw 2x4's for legs, cross braced them, and on the bottom,
    learned how to use my $15 B&D router to groove out about 1/2 inch
    box.  Then I cut a ~1.5in x 6" slot for the blade.
    
    Drill some holes through the saw plate and the plywood, countersink
    holes at the top, add an electrical switch to a leg and VIOLA!!
    a Macgyver special for about $10.00.
    
    I took special care to get perpendicularity and squarenes.
    I estimate I'm within 1/32" of true.
    
    Went deluxe when I routered grooves 7" away from the blade and
    put in a homemade protractor.
    
    I had lots of fun figuring, building, and learning and would
    do it again (still don't have the $$$ ;*( 
    
    One comment, make sure you route out enough of the plywood to 
    get the saw blade high enough to cut through a 2x4. The first time,
    I made that mistake.
    
    

	Good idea for my upcoming workbench...
	
	Hmmm.  .-1 got me thinking and I checked out my circ. saw last
	nite.  The plate seems MADE for upside-down mounting.  The current
	blade has a little more than 2 1/2" to cut with so mounted upside
	down on the bottom of a 3/4" piece of plywood would leave 1 3/4"
	inches which should be more than enough for a 1.5" 2x4, right ?
	
	related questions:
	
	1) Are most/all routers similarly easy to upside down mount ?
	   Would I have to thin out the 3/4" plywood any ? or can I
	   just buy longer routing bits ? What should I look for ?
	   
	2) While I'm thinking of it, what else would be easy/usefull
	   to mount in this fashion ?  Sabre-saw ?  Sander ?
	   
	I guess if I do this right, I'll never misplace my tools either...

	Scott.

    Anybody know where I might find a 6" carbide crosscut circular saw
    blade with a 1"(?) arbor.  It's for a B&D saw thats probably older
    than I am.  I'm in Chicago so it would have to be mail order.  Are
    these things even made anymore?
    
    
    Dan         

    You might also want to ask this question in the WOODWORKING_AND_TOOLS
    conference.  It resided on DELNI::  last time I checked.  The
    readership of that conference has a much more concentrated view
    of tools and supplies for tools.  
    
    Hit keypad 7 to add DELNI::WOODWORKING_AND_TOOLS to your notebook.

    Did you try calling B&D?  They should have an 800 #...
    I have an *old* sander of their's which needed a new pad, called
    and they sent one right out...
    I know the trouble with 6" blades, as i also have an ancient
    'no name' circular saw which uses that size...tough to find.
    
    good luck!
    

    I really cleaned out my Craftsman 10" table saw last week.  Compressed
    air to loosen all the saw dust, shop vac to get it all out.  Even
    turned it upside down to get at all those hard to reach places. 
    Problem is now it won't work!  I plug it in, turn it on, nothing
    happens.  
    
    I noticed on the underside there is a warning about not turning it on
    in that position because of a 'gravity switch'.  Is anyone familiar
    with how one of these (gravity switch) works?  Any other suggestions?
    
    Thanks,
    
    -Stan

    You didn't use compressed air on your motor, did you??? I only vacuum
    mine, never compressed air, you force dust/dirt/sawdust into the
    winding/armature/brushes making a real mess. Sears motors are not
    Totally Enclosed Fan Cooled motors (TEFC), usually. Make sure you
    didn't blow junk into the switch either, may be the cheaper fix.
    Radio Shack sells cleaner for switches. 

    Whoops - I DID use the compressed air in the area of the motor.  It's
    quite possible I've 'forced' some dust into the windings etc.  I'll put
    the shop vac to it again tonight.
    
    Update:  to check out whether it was the mechanical switch I bypassed it
    and connected the two wires directly together that would normally be
    connected by the switch.  I then plugged the saw in and the motor spun
    very slowly, appearing to labor, in the opposite direction from what it
    should.  Besides the mechanical switch which I bypassed, there are a
    couple of other 'items', of which I'm guessing one is the 'gravity
    switch'.   I'll take a look at those again tonight, vac around them
    well, and see if there's anything obvious.
    
    Again - any suggestions are most appreciated.
    
    -Stan
     

    Sounds like your motor has a brake on it.  Some power saws have
    an electric brake.  Some are operated manually (push the brake button)
    and some have a brake that operates automaticaly, when the saw is
    turned off.  There might even be a saftey switch, that puts the
    brake on, when something goes wrong.   Check this out.
    
    Alan

    FWIW - the saw is now running again.  There is no brake on the saw,
    it's a very basic model.  What I did to get it going again was remove
    the safety switch, gravity switch, and really clean those items and the
    pocket where they're stored of sawdust and dirt.  There was quite a bit
    of sawdust that was hard packed into the back of those elements.  I
    also shook the gravity switch (at least I assume that what the item is)
    in it's upright position to make sure nothing was stuck in the wrong
    position.  When I reasembled the 'squeaky clean' items, the saw worked
    fine.  I can only guess the gravity switch had 'disconnected' when I
    truned the saw upside down for cleaning, then never re-set itself when
    I righted the unit.  Some of the hard-packed sawdust could also have
    prevented the conections from being as clean as they needed to be. 
    Either way, the saw is back running and I appreciate the
    comments/suggestions from those who offered ideas.
    
    -Stan
    

Hi,
	I would like to buy a rolling stand for my DELTA contractors saw.
	
	Can anyone suggest a good place to get this item from?
	
	Thanks. Pat

    I believe Spag's sells this item...something less than a C-note....
    Oh! It's a delta item btw...Ken

    Please fix the title spelling so that others will in future be able to
    find your note with a dir/title=roller.
    
    gjd

    
    Does anyone know where one can obtain reasonable quality
    Tool Chests and Carts for reasonable prices?  Sears has 
    some, but I was wondering  if I could find a better buy 
    somewhere else. 
    

    I borrowed my next door neighbors Wen saber saw and immediately broke
    the blade.  I can't find any hardware or tool store that carries
    the blade.  It will not take either of the two standard blades I've
    found.  Does anyone know who might carry replacement blades for
    Wen saws?
    					- Vick

If you broke the blade, (hopefully) you still have that part of it that fits
into the saw (shank?).  That should be all you need to bring to the hardware
store to match with what they have.  As far as I know, there *is* one standard
blade style that fits fits "all" saws.  You may have found a blade that fits
a reciprocating saw, Sawzall, or something else that isn't *quite* a saber saw.

    Wen saber saws use a different blade, the part which fits in the holder
    is wider.  (Consumers report called this "an advantage" in 1975 8^) ) I
    used to have a WEN and got my blades mail order from Wen.   If  the saw
    has  their  address  on it you could call them and ask..  Or if you  are
    handy you might buy a Sawzall blade and grind down the shank to fit.

    
    PS I finally gave the thing away, it was such a pain getting blades for
    it..

    
    Bosch sabre (they call 'em jig) saws have the same problem with blades.
    
    CdH
    

    Looking to purchase an all around general (not expensive) saw, for
    home projects.  Something that cuts panels, masonite (sp), 2x4's,
    etc.
    
    Any recommendations?  
    
    If there is a note regarding saws, please point me towards it.
    
    thanks
    

Can you believe with almost 4000 notes we have no note specifically about
circular saws?  I'd have thought it would be in the first 500.  We have notes
about power miter boxes, table saws, concrete saws, cordless mini saws, 
sawHORSES, converting a circular saw to a table saw...... but none on circular
saws.

As a matter of fact, I just entered a reply this morning in the conference
DELNI::WOODWORKING_AND_TOOLS about circular saws.  The biggest difference 
between cheap saws and good saws is the bearings.  Cheap saws have grease-
impregnated bronze bushings, good saws have ball or needle bearings.  The
bushings are good for maybe 24 hours of use; then they wear out, and cannot
easily be replaced.  I don't know how cheaply you can get a ball bearing saw,
but it's probably worth the money if you're going to use it much.  If you 
aren't going to use it much, then you might as well get the cheapest B&D 
bushing saw you can find.  It's probably not worth the money to buy a more 
expensive bushing saw, since the tool is basically disposable.

The other differences as $ go up are in power, ruggedness, and ease of repair.
Only you can decide how much of these you are willing to purchase (or willing 
to NOT purchase, depending on how you look at it).

Oh, and one more thing.  Inevitably we're going to talk about buying good tools
vs. buying cheap tools - at least we have in almost every other tools note, and
I've started it already.  Can we maybe try not to get TOO deeply into fervent 
religious discussion about it this time?  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)

Paul

I have a cheap B&D circular saw and have put it to moderate use, mainly on
2x4s but also plywood and particleboard.  It works fine.  If I were using it
regularly, I'd probably want something a bit better, but for my use, it's
more than adequate.

One thing I did which I was happy about was that I bought one of B&D's
"Pirhana" fine-pitch blades.  This cuts smooth and fast, and is said to
last a long time as well.

			Steve

  OK, I see the point about the kind of bearings being important, but
  how does one find out what kind of bearings a particular model has?
  I've rarely found a Sears salesperson to be knowledgable in this sort
  of info, so can I assume right at the start that my "Craftsman Best"
  is garbage? And that my Porter-Cable is top drawer?

re .1, .2:

So will Steve's blade last longer than his saw?

re .3:

You could look in the Sears catalog (or their tool "specialogue") to see what
kind of bearings a particular model has.  Are ball bearings really that
expensive that a cheap saw couldn't have them?

I never had bearing failure in my cheap circular saws, but did experience
premature brush wear. I think this was due to the saw being so underpowered,
probably a 9 or 10 amp motor vs. 13 amp on my Milwaukie. 
And changing the brushes on the cheap saw is difficult. The saw must be taken
completely apart to access them, while the better saws have external access
brushes. 
Other considerations: the better saws are better balanced, smoother running.

Ross

    I think you may be underestimating bronze bushings just a bit.
    Not that I wouldn't choose ball bearings every time over bronze
    bushings in a saw, but bushings aren't (or don't need to be)
    all that bad.  Part of the problem may not be the bushing per
    se, but the poor overall design of the saw and the use of a
    bushing that is too small for the job.
    
    Although I've never done it in a saw, a bronze bushing shouldn't
    be *that* hard to replace...assuming it's designed to be replacable.
    
    Perhaps the problem is that saws with bronze bushings aren't
    designed to be repaired.  I think you could build a very rugged,
    long-lasting saw with bronze bushings, but quite likely nobody does.
    Ball bearings aren't all that much more expensive, especially if
    you are buying by the thousands the way a manufacturer would.
    
    

 My $39.00 on sale Master Mechanic (Skil) 2 1/4 hp 7 1/4" works great, but
have no reliability data, it's only 3 months old.  Makita's were 139.00 at
Spag's at the time.

 I have a Makita battery powered 3 3/8" circular say, works great on vinyl
siding, luanne plywood, and other low-power requirement jobs.  You should
have 2 batteries, so one can be charging while the other is being used.  Very
lightweight and convenient to use.

  Steve

    Well I bought a B&D 2 hp 7 1/4 circular saw in the summer of '86.  I
    have built a 8x8 P.T. deck, 9+ freestanding bookshelfs, a 12x12 wooden
    shed with a P.T. deck, and *numerous* repairs around the house for the
    past 4 years.  I have been abusive as one could to this saw.  I have
    dropped it from a height of 8 ft, I have lowered it off the roof to the
    ground using the cord, I have pushed it thru lumber faster than the
    dull blade can cut, never cleaned it, and throw it in the bottom of a box
    for storage.  
    
    I have replaced the origional blade with a carbide tip, combination
    blade.  It is time to replace the blade again and already have 3 new
    blades still in the wrapper which I have received as gifts but just too
    lazy to install.
    
    I paid about $50 4 years ago and have been happy with it so far.  I
    believe it was the heavy duty model or model just below Professional. 
    The shoe needs to be straightened since I dropped it and the blade
    needs replacing but the motor still has plenty of power.  For the
    money, I would buy another one based on the use I have got out of it
    and the use I expect to get out of it.  If I get 10 years use out of
    it, then it will have met my expectations.  A $150 saw for home use
    seems like overkill, unless you are building the house.  Bank the extra
    $100 dollars and buy a new one in 10 years and still have money left
    over.
    

    
    One thing that will kill a cheap saw pretty quick is a dull blade. 
    When the blade is dull you tend to load down the motor more. I
    was chopping up some pallets for kindling with my 2 year old, lightly
    used $39 B&D. Oak will wear even a carbide blade pretty quickly if
    you're making hundreds of cuts. The blade was the last sharp one I had
    around. After about 2 hours the saw was toast. Shorted windings.
    
    Since I had several projects to finish, I got my wife to surrender the
    checkbook (quite the feat in itself) and I got myself $150 and went
    shopping. I liked the Milwaukee the best but the Makita was 1/2 pound
    lighter in weight. It was a difference I could feel immediately, so
    that's what I went home with, $129 at Spags. All the top brands had
    similar quality and motor hp. It came down to weight, for me.
    
    So, if you want to keep your cheap saw alive, keep the blades sharp.
    
    CdH
    
    

    Lots of good replies here, and I especially agree with the comments
    about blades: the sharper, the better.
    
    Another thing to consider is the size of the saw. I received a
    Craftsman (Sears best) 8" circ saw from my in-laws as a gift. While
    I've been very happy with it, I find it very annoying to find an 8"
    replacement blade for it. I usually have to get them at Sears, so I 
    don't get to take advantage of bargains on the standard 7 -> 7 1/2"
    blades at other stores. If I had had a choice, I would have gotten
    a 7 or 7 1/2" model.
    
    BTW, would it be possible for me to use a smaller blade on my 8" saw?
    
    (Also, not to rathole, but can I tell the gauge of my ext cord by
    looking at it? I never considered the problems an undersized cord could
    cause...)

You can use the smaller blades no problem, they all have a 5/8" arbor.  You'll
just get a little shallower depth of cut.  But why are you constantly buying
blades anyway?  I bought a good Oldham carbide blade when I got the saw, and
I've had it sharpened a couple of times since then.  I expect the blade to last
nearly my lifetime, unless I build a couple more houses.

The cord probably has the gauge stamped on it somewhere.  But if you didn't
specifically look for a heavy gauge cord, then you don't have one.  My 10 gauge
cord is about 1/2" in diameter.

The standard orange cords that most places sell - the one where the cord is a
little more than 1/4" in diameter - is usually 16 gauge.  This is fine for a
short cord - like 15 feet or so.  The 100 foot cord is also fine for low-draw
tools like a string trimmer.

Paul

    How long would it take to see the damage resulting from using an
    extension cord too small for the saw??  We added a deck this summer,
    all the holes were drilled and PT boards cut using a standard 50'
    outdoor extension cord.  The tools appear to be fine - should we be
    concerned??
    
    P

	I purchased a few power tools when we were first married,
22 years ago.  All are in excellent working order today, including
the circular saw.  All the tools are Skil amd all I've done to
any of them, besides periodic cleaning, is replace the brushes and
keep the blades sharpened (I have four blades, the newest of which
is 10 years old).  I haven't looked at power hand tools for many
years so reading about $150 circular saws for home use seems to
be like buying a $3000 shotgun to scare the birds out of the trees.

Douglas

    set hat/moderator
    
    I have moved most of the discussion about Proper Size Extension Cord
    for use with a Portable Power Tool to its own note, 3993.  If you are
    looking for your answers/questions about this topics, try looking
    there.  
    
    For the other readers, there was a raging sub- discussion (rathole)
    emerging from this topic about extension cord usage with portable tools
    and its possbile effects.  Useful things to consider when using a
    portable power tool.  You may still see remments of that here because
    the two discussions were inter-mixed for a while.  
    
    Please discuss the merits of circular saws here.  Refere to 3993 for
    extension cords and usage of.
    
    Bruce [co-moderator]

    I currently own 4 circular saws, my first a cheap Sears craftsman,
    which I gave to my friend to have on hand for any little project he
    might find himself getting into.  I'm now down to 3 on hand.
    
    2 mikatas, both 7 1/4" one with the auto brake, and a hitachi psm7.
    The Hitachi is by far and large the better of the lot, but is heavier
    than the 2 mikatas'.  The newest mikata, forget the model number (the
    one with the brake) is excellent... i especially like the feature of
    the brake.  I use the mikata's for deck jobs where i'm sometimes
    cutting in ungodly positions and sometimes overhead, because of the
    lightweight and compact size.  I save the hitachi for regular cutting
    jobs.
    
    The reason for the number of saws was to have a couple on hand for
    additional people to use while building decks.  
    
    The craftsman while not as powerful or quiet or smooth or fancy did the
    job for a number of years.  For odd jobs around the house, a few cuts
    here or there... a cheapy saw is adequate.  a few decks here or there,
    a side job or 2, and i'd opt for the better models.  The things that
    you notice immediatly is the base plate is not thin and bent into
    shape... it's solid. the adjustments knobs, are just that... knobs! not
    wingnuts...  basically a $120 is worth the money in my mind for the
    better saw.  The sound alone will tell you which one is better.
    
    JMHO, Fra
    

I recently aqquired a used 10" circular saw.  It needed a new field coil and
brushes, and needed to have the contacts smoothed.  I am using it to cut pine
beams, and it does not seem to be able to cut a full ~4" depth.  I have a
relativly new 80 carbide tooth b&d purana blade on it.  Am I asking too much of
the saw, should a 10" circular saw be able to do this cutting, should I buy a
new saw, and chuck this one, or is this about as good as it gets?  The saw is a
Skil brand with a 15 amp motor.

Thanks,
Jim Baranski
building apost & beam barn

    If the motor runs on 110 and not 220, it's not big enough.
    
    Carl

If you are running the thing off a mile of extension cord, that will definitely
affect performance.

-Mike

    RE: last few
    
    I thought that the original problem was depth of cut not whether or not
    a cut was being made.  If the saw is not cutting, then the previously
    mentioned hints are the best starting point.
    
    RE: 110 vs 220.  My 10-1/4 runs on 110 and has enough power to scare
    most people.  I also have used the 15" and that too runs on 110v.  A
    long cord for either saw will effectively kill its power.  I usually
    run with #10 cables.  If I must run more than 100', I use a #8
    extension.  I have never run across a problem with power. (It is noce
    to be able to cut 4x4s with one pass...)
    
    Dan

    It's not the voltage that determines power, it's the amperage.

    At 15 amps @110v, that's 2+HP. that should be enough, but if the wood
    is "sappy" or wet, and there is not much kerf on the blade, that may
    not be enough. 

     Definitely check the extension cord if you are using one (probably are
    , unless you got a h*** of a cord on that saw). Definitely #12 for 50'
    or less, and #10 preferred. Also , plug into an outlet as close to 
    the breaker panel as possible- you may be plugging into a #14 wore
    circuit with 50' of wiring to the breaker panel.

    Dick 
    
    

re .5:

>    It's not the voltage that determines power, it's the amperage.

It's the voltage multiplied by the amperage, not (just) the amperage.  That's
the reason a long cord hinders the use of a saw - when the saw is loaded down
it starts drawing many amps, but the resistance of the cord causes a voltage
drop along the cord, so fewer volts at the saw, so you don't have the power
you need, despite the saw drawing many many amps.

-Mike

The first time I used the saw it was on a ~100 ft 10 gauge cord.  The second
time was right next to the circuit breaker box with 10 gauge between the
saw and circuit box.  There is a marginal difference, but still can't get
anymore then 5/2" cut out of it in one fell swoop.

The pine is pretty green, but there's no build up on the blade, and the kerf
is pretty wide, the teeth are significantly wider then the blade.

Someone else mentioned using a blade with fewer teeth, will that help?  I know
that more teeth will slow the cut down, but this is a case of just plain not
being able to do the cut, and I thought more teeth would help being able to make
the cut.  What do you think?

Jim. 

    re-.1
    Fewer teeth will make it saw better in this case 60 teeth is more like
    a finish blade a cleaner cut but requires the saw to put out more work.
    The above is based strictly upon the scientific study of my own
    observations your mileage may vary.
    
    -j

    I guess I meant to say that 110 v limits you to about 2 1/2 - 3 hp at
    best.  220v units generally start at 3 hp and go up from there.  If 
    you've ever used a good Delta table saw with this set up, you have to
    admit the difference is noticable.  
    
    On second thought, the problem may be too many teeth, not enough room
    between the teeth for sawdust at this depth of cut.  
    
    Carl

    I've cut through many a 6x6 treated post with my 15" Hitachi using a 
    100' cord and have not been hindered in the least. The blade is NOT
    carbide tipped, and due to the nature of PT lumber most if not all was
    wet and sappy.  Never had any problems whatsoever.
    
    sounds like a mechanical problem to me...
    
    Fra

    
    	I have a 10" table saw and it will *just* cut through a real 3.5
    inch think piece of wood.  (ie. "4 inch" in lumber terms.)  The problem
    is where the blade can be held at.  For example, if the 10" blade was
    on a spindle whose center was at the same level as the table platform,
    you could expect that it would cut through 5" of wood.  (1/2 of the
    blade is above the table and the other 1/2 under the table.)  However,
    this can't be done without disturbing the nice flat table, so the
    spindle has to be under the table level.  On my (admittedly junky) table
    saw, the highest the spindle can go is around 1.5 inches under the table
    level due to the size and placement of the motor.  10 inches divided by
    2 (the unattainable max blade height if the spindle was at table height)
    minus the 1.5 minimum gap between the top of the table and the center of
    the spindle results in a maximum cut depth of 3.5 inches for me.  (Looking
    at the example in .10, if I could mount that 15" blade on my table (it
    wouldn't fit), my maximum depth of cut would be (15/2)-1.5 or 6 inches --
    enough, by 1/2 inch, to cut through a 6x6 post.)
    
    	Raise your blade to the highest level it can go at and measure the
    distance from the top of the table to the top of the blade.  If when
    you say that you're cutting a 4 inch beam, if its a _real_ 4 inch beam,
    then your motor has to be no more than 2 inches in diameter (spindle 1
    inch under the table -- this ignore the thickness of the table) to cut
    it with a 10" blade.
    
    								-craig
                         

    
    	P.S. to my .10
    
    	Oh, you said circular saw and I was talking about a table saw.  No
    difference, however, since in neither cases can the cutting surface
    (the "table" on the table saw) be at the same location as the center of
    the blade.  Just read my examples upside down for it to match a
    circular saw.  :-)
    
    							-c

    Hi,
    
    I was surprised to not find a single note here on reciprocating saws.
    I'm looking into buying one right now and would like to hear some
    people's opinions of which brands/models they like.
    
    I'm familiar with Milwaukee's Sawzall, which is what I was going to 
    buy, but now that I've begun shopping, I see that Makita, Porter-Cable,
    and others now make them as well.  I'd also like to know how hard the
    blades are to find for various models--ie, do you have to order them
    from the manufacturer, or does your local discount store carry them?
    
    Thanks for any help,
    
    _Randy
    

    I have owned AEG, Makita (sp) and the Porter-Cable over the years. 
    Bar none the PC has worked the best and not much more $. I burnt out both 
    the Makita and AEG within 1 year. The PC goes and goes without any problem. 
    The super sawzall I compair to the AEG and is ok for most jobs. 
     
    As far as blades goes, they are interchangable and can be purchased at
    any hardware store. I go for the bi-metal blades which last
    (IMO) longer but they cost a little more. 
    
    Ken  

    My brother-in-law is a carpenter and he likes his Milwaukee Sawzall. In
    fact, when we bought it for him as a gift, he specifically asked for
    that brand.
    
    Mike

    A fellow noter pointed me to the WOOKWORKING_AND_TOOLS notes file
    for other discussions.
    
    In that file there are somewhat dated discussions of reciprocating
    saws in notes 303.* and 451.*.
    
    -Randy

	    I'd say go for the Milwaukee.  It's a quality name and usually
	runs around the same price as the Mikita.  But the important thing
	is the fact that they are American made.  If you can buy a quality
	U.S.A. product at a price comperable to an import, I say buy
	American.
	    On the other hand, there is an amazing sale on the Mikita 
	recipro saw at Rich's (this week).

					Tim

My father has the Mikita.  I used it for a few jobs - it did not feel as sturdy
as the Milwaukee I was used to using in my previous life as an electrian so I 
went and bought my own Super-Sawsall.

I was thinking American when I bought it also (along with the Milwalkee
circular saw, twist drill, screw gun, electric screwdriver- my basement is
covered with red tools!).

Brian J.

	I to was in the same boat last year when I wanted to buy my saw.
   	I've always used Milwaukee so I figured that was the only brand
	that was availible, until...I went to a tool house to buy my saw
	and low and behold they had a vendor(Porter-Cable) demonstating
	his equipment.  They had two 6"x6" blocks of wood set-up. His 
	partner pick-up his Milwaukee and reved it up to intimidate his
	opponent, at that point the Rep whipped out his Porter-Cable Tiger
	saw, flipped the lever to wood cut(adds an up/down motion to clean
	out chips), set the variable speed to full, and smirked. The starter
	said.."Go" and they where off. I couldn't believe the difference, the
	P-C blew through that piece of wood like a hot knife through butter
	while the brand-X was still vibrating away.  I figure this had to be
	rigged, so after they where done I took ahold  of the P-C and a buddy
	of mine had brand-X...sure enough the same out come!  So that's how
	I became the proud owner of a Porter-Cable Tiger Saw.  I've since used
	it for remodeling,decks,making parts for my trailer, sex toy for my
	wife(just kidding!)..and the list goes on.
	
	Saw Spec's: - Heavy Duty constuction
		    - Cut lever which goes from metal to wood depending on
		      what you are cutting.
		    - Variable speed control dail near triger
		    - Two blades(metal+wood)
		    - Nice carrying case  	

	Good luck on your investment,
				       Greg G

    I never saw the PC vs Milwauk demo, but if there were any doubts,
    I'd have switched blades and tried again.  Its amazing what a good
    blade can do.
    
    Also, the Sawzall (at least most of em) has a hi and lo switch for
    wood/metal and the trigger controls the variable speed, not a dial
    near the trigger.
    
    I don't doubt that PC makes a decent reciprocating saw, but only
    Milwaukee makes a Sawzall.
    

re                       <<< Note 4565.7 by SMURF::AMBER >>>
>    I don't doubt that PC makes a decent reciprocating saw, but only
>    Milwaukee makes a Sawzall.

                "Sawzall" is merely Milwaukee's trademark for their own
                reciprocating saw, just like "Kleenex" is some company's
                trademark for facial tissues.

SJ
  

                    

    
    I dunnno, I got the Milwakee.  Had mine about 5 or 6 years now.
    No fancy dials or switches...  just put the blade in, plug it
    in, pull the trigger and saw.  Variable speed of course.
    

    Milwakee has a new model out now with a counterweight moving opposite
    the blade motion - supposed to reduce vibration.

I've a Sawzall, dual range, variable speed model 6508.  Next time I need to
replace a dead power tool, it'll be made by Milwaukee.

Chris

    re.7
    Ditto. I used to work for a supply house that sold wholesale to
    contractors and the Milwaukee out sold the PC saw 3 to 1. I bought
    one back then a after 12 years of near constant use and abuse I'm
    still happy with it. btw- abuse in this case can be translated total
    emersion(sp?) in water for a period of at least two days after a pipe
    broke over the tool box it was stored in filling it with water.
    After a weeks drying time it worked fine your milage may vary.
    
    -j
    

As the moderator....

There are several notes in here that are beginning to sound like this is, 
at the very least, a buy American issue, if not a religious issue... 8^)

Please keep your comments in line with DEC policy of not disparaging a 
product and try and discuss the pros and cons of each tool as you see them.

Thanks,

    Vic

>    still happy with it. btw- abuse in this case can be translated total
>    emersion(sp?) in water for a period of at least two days after a pipe
>    broke over the tool box it was stored in filling it with water.
>    After a weeks drying time it worked fine your milage may vary.

	    Does this mean a Milwaukee will work under water?  8^)  I
	think I'll try it wometime... not!  But talk about a reliable 
	tool!

					Tim

    re-.1
    >>Does this mean a Milwaukee will work under water? 
    Only in submarines.
    
    -j

    I just picked up the Bosch recip saw. Its got the same orbital action
    as on the jig saw. It cuts fast... 8 amp motor. Spags has them with the
    case, blades (2) and the unit for $145.00. I compaired against the 
    Sawzall and the PC Tiger saw and felt this was the better quality saw.
    
    RT

    I'm in need of a compound miter saw... and the two that I have 
    been looking at are the Makita 10" sliding compound Miter and
    a new one that Sears Craftman "Contractors Series" a 8 1/4
    sliding compound miter saw, which currently sells for 399.00
    I can get a 10% discount for it on May 1,2 special club 
    member sale... The Makita is going for 449.82 at Homebase
    in Colorado Sprngs...
    
    Could you folks help me deside which one would be best???  
    
    Craftsman is made for sears by Emerson electric in Taiwan...
    It can cut 2 1/2 x 12 @ 90 deg.   The Makita can cut 2 15/16 x 12
    at 90 deg...
    
    
    
    Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
    

Several contractors I know prefer the Hitachi miter saw to the Makita.
No professional I know owns a Sears, but that doesn't necessarily mean
they're not good.

    I have a regular Makita 10" miter saw it is wonderful, and has never
    given me a minute of trouble.  I hate Sears as a company, because of a 
    bad lawn mower experience and their attitude toward the customer is
    "You need us more than we need you".  I would not by oxygen from them
    if they were the last place on earth to get it.  I have heard good
    things about Hitachi but at this time do not own any of their products.
    
    Paul

    At one time I was considering the purchase of a compound miter.
    
    There is also an 8.5 inch radial arm saw available that can do
    everything that a 10" compound miter saw can. I think it's by
    Ryobi (sp?)  It also costs quite a bit less than a compound
    miter.

    
    Re .2, .4, tangent on Sears:
    
    I used to love Sears; came to hate them because of deteriorating
    quality and bad service.
    
    However, I saw a glimmer of hope last week. We were trying to pick out
    some curtains, vertical blinds, ect from a catalogue to decorate a new
    room. My wife called Sears to see if she could get some swatches for
    fabric blinds.
    
    o Sears rep said the manufacturer had some agreement that swatches would
      not be made generally available, BUT
    
    o gave us a number to call manufacturer
    
    o rep called back 3 TIMES in as many days to see if we were able to contact
      manufacturer and resolve issue
    
    o manufacturer sent out swatches immediately, we had them two days
      later
    
    Now, you could argue that Sears should have taken care of it directly
    and had the swatches sent to us; but our impression was that someone
    took a personal interest in our situation and worked around some SOP to
    make sure we were satisfied.  I was suitably impressed.
    

    continuing the tangent on the 'new' Sears...
    
    Last fall my 9 year old Sears lawnmower (22" 4hp self propelled) hit a
    stump and, since the blade did not have a shear pin, bent the shaft.
    
    After getting prices for parts and/or repair I was real mad.  Walking
    out of the store, I was stopped by one of the salesmen in the new mower
    department.  Said I would NOT buy a Sears mower due to what had just
    happened.  He asked what, apologized and showed me the shear pin on the
    new model and got approval to give me 50% off (the sale price which
    already was 20% off) on a new mower as a 'trade in' allowance for the
    damaged mower (which I didn't even have to return)!  So, for $150 I got
    a new mower of the same capability (22" 4hp self propelled).
    
    There is hope!
    
    As far as quality of Sears tools, etc., for the weekend warrior, the
    quality and durability seems adequate.  If I was using a tool 8
    hours/day, every day, then I would go with a 'pro' brand.
    
    	-Barry-
    

Since this has already become the "Good Sears Story" rathole, let me tell mine:

Recently (last year?), we needed a new water heater and my wife went to Sears
to get one.  She first checked with catalog sales and got a price (including
delivery to the store).  She then went to the water heater department in the
store, to check their price, since there wouldn't be a wait.  Well, the store
price was significantly higher the the catalog one, so she said "No thanks, I'll
get it from the catalog."  To which the saleman responded "I can give it to you
for the catalog price." and she took it.

I was amazed.

Bob

    RE:.5

   > As far as quality of Sears tools, etc., for the weekend warrior, the
   > quality and durability seems adequate.  If I was using a tool 8
   > hours/day, every day, then I would go with a 'pro' brand.

    	Sears tools are Tiawianese or some such junk and they are
    guaranteed until you walk out the door with them.  Now Craftsman
    tools that are sold at Sears are a different story.  I've had them
    (Craftsman Tools) for over twenty years and the few times I've had 
    a problem they where replaced without any grief.

    Joe

>						I've had them
>    (Craftsman Tools) for over twenty years and the few times I've had 
>    a problem they where replaced without any grief.

Are you talking about their power tools as well?  For some reason I thought
this applied only to their hand tools, but not their power tools...

Dan

    I once worked part-time in the automotive dept. at Sears.
    
    There was a certain irony to seeing, once a week, the Snap-On truck
    driving thru the service bays while the mechanics crowded around...
    
    Edd

    re  .7
    
    Sorry, I meant the Craftsman line, NOT the 'Sears' line.  There IS a
    big difference.  
    
    The lifetime guarantee does not apply to power tools, but the 'new'
    attitude applies there too.  The fence on my Craftsman chop saw once
    broke (due to my own stupidity).  I took the broken fence in and talked
    to one of the sales reps nicely.  He gave me the fence off the floor
    demo model!
    
    	-Barry-
    

    As a reader (and moderator) of both this and the 

    NOTED::WOODWORKING_AND_TOOLS

may I sugggest that the initial question in .0 has been discussed, nearly 
to death, over there. 

As moderator of this file, could I please ask that we close the rathole and 
leave it before we get into the famous and well worn contest over Sears, 
Craftsmen tool quality, and good/bad stories of treatment at Sears.

    	Vic

    I have a older B&D radial arm saw that was given to me it does compound
    mitters and appears to run fine. One problem however is that when I
    cut something it seems to push the stock away from the blade to the
    point that it won't make a straight cut. I put a new blade in it(even
    though it only a $7 blade), it's on the correct way etc.. any ideas
    what could be wronge??
    
    Thanks 
    Tom 

Is this doing rips or crosscuts?  From which direction are you feeding the
material?  You should be feeding it against the direction of blade rotation
for rips (which means, if the blade is turning clockwise, you feed from the
left), and it should be pushing the stock into the fence for crosscuts.
If you feed from the wrong direction, you're in danger of severe injury.
(You also want to make sure that the anti-kickback mechanism is adjusted and
working properly.)

			Steve

>                                ... One problem however is that when I
>   cut something it seems to push the stock away from the blade to the
>   point that it won't make a straight cut. ..

      As  I read this you mean that the wood is being pushed away toward
      the SIDE of the blade -- i.e. at a more-or-less right angle to the
      plane of the blade's rotation.
      
      If  you're  doing cross cuts, the only thing I can think of is the
      possibility that the  blade  is  wobbling.   If  it  is  installed
      properly,  as  you say it is, this would seem to indicate that the
      shaft is bent.  This problem may be exagerated if the wood is  not
      being held tight against the fence.
      
      If  you're  doing  rip  cuts  it  may  mean  that the blade is not
      completely parallel to the rip fence.  It could also mean that the
      wood  is not being held firmly against the fence by a finger-board
      or similar hold-down/hold-in device.  If the wood is free to  move
      without  some device of this sort, the saw will tend to follow the
      wood's grain and not cut straight.

      Or it could be something entirely different.

    
    
    You might also check the track that the motor assembly rides on.  If
    its loose, it may tend to kick the cut out of line and cause the
    blade to bind or give you an angle cut......
    
    JD

    radial arm saws have a number of adjustments to make the blade
    travel perpendicular to the fence and to the table, etc.  These
    seem to "go out" over time, and when the saw is jostled during a move.
    Did you get an instruction manual with this saw?  If so, did you
    perform the procedure to check all the various adjustments?  If
    not, that's where I would start.  And yes, make sure the blade doesn't
    wobble...
    
    	Dick
    

    I check the blade and does not appear to wobble and I did not get any
    documentation with it. I checked the blade with a square and made sure
    it was perpendicular. I don't know of any other adjustments. I does
    compound miters does that help??
    
    Tom

    .4 is right in suggesting that you calibrate or adjust the saw's many
    adjustments.  I suggest you get a manual from another saw owner and go
    throug the procedures.  From what you describe, it sounds like the saw
    blade is not parallel to the fence (if ripping) and/or parallel to the
    direction the blade travels in the overhead tracks (if cross cutting).
    

    Tom,
    	Like others have said get the owners manual because there MANY
    	setting & calibrations to do. I just put together & set my new
    	Craftsman electronic radial arm & there are many adjustments like;
    	the motor to the tracks, to the fence & to the table, the blade to
    	the fence &  to the table, adjustments for miters, bevels, rips &
    	crosscuts just off the top of my head. 
    	All are simple enough by following the owners manual & using a
    	framing square(except the track adj, that was a pain).
    	You might be able to find a manual from someone else, a dealer or	
    	maybe the library. If all else fails try writting to B&D, they
    	should have a copy.
    
    	Alan
    

    
    I guess thia is as good a place as any to put this....
    
    I'm using my Father-in-laws table saw which is pretty old but
    is a great tool. I forget the brand, I think it was a name
    that Delta used before Delta ??? Whatever......
    
    The rip fence slides onto 2 channels that the fence slides on
    for adjusting. There are 2 tightening mechanisms on each end
    of the fence. The front one has a knob the you turn to tighten
    and it also squares off the fence. It screws into a rectangular
    piece of metal that sandwiches the channel between the knob and
    the metal piece... (I know, I've lost everybody !) Anyway, the
    threads in the metal piece are stripped so it does not tighten
    properly. This piece is about 2 inches wide, 1 inch tall and
    about a half inch thick. It has a threaded hole which the knob
    screws into and 2 smaller threaded holes which have screws in
    them that protrude out the other side and fit into 2 holes in
    the fence mechanism for allignment. In a nutshell, anyone know
    someone that can replicate this piece ?? It really is not a
    complex part. I don't believe parts are available for this saw.
    
    Randy
    

Have the hole drilled out and re tapped to accept the next size up. Or have
it drilled and heli-coiled to fit the existing parts. 

    
    I can't go to a larger size because I can't replace the part that
    screws into the hole. Heli-coiled ???  where do you have this done ??
    at the Heli-pad ?? (sorry)
    
    Randy
          

Heli-coils look like little springs. What you do is drill the hole out to the 
right size for the heli-coil that fits your bolt. Then the hole is tapped for
the heli-coil. After this you use the heli-coil insert tool and thread the 
heli-coil into the newly tapped hole and voila! Its like new. This a very common
method of fixing threads in aluminum or other soft metals. Sometimes they are
even used on new items to reinforce the hole rather than have the soft metal
bearing the brunt of the force exerted by the bolt or whatever.

Place a note in the 

You might want to ask you local small engine repair shop, car repair shop, 
machine shop or just about any place that does mechanical repairs if they can do
it for you. Auto part suppliers with a machine shop might also do it for you. 

Check with a good industrial supplier or good auto supply for the tools and 
insert kits. It might be cheaper to buy the kit and do it yourself. If you can 
handle a drill and tap you probably have the skills to use the heli-coil tools.

    
    
    Well thanks to Home_Works own Steve Wellcome, the saw is back in
    business ! 
    Steve made a new part which is better than the original ! 
    
    Thanks again Steve, it works great !
    
    Randy
    

    What happens to the small circular saw?  I remember B&D carried 5 1/2"
    saw but now I can not find them anywhere.  Sears and Home Depot only 
    have small saws with price tags >$100!  
    
    I already have a Sears 2 HP, 7 1/4 saw and I just need the small saw
    for its light weight and light duty job.
    
    
    /Neil

    Perhaps the work was fed too fast?
    
    /Neil

A power mitre saw is on my husband's christmas list...  Are Makita, Milwaukee, 
and Ryobi still the best?  

What will the differentiating features between models be, and what are 
the important ones to have (to avoid "if it only had THIS feature..."). 


Thanks, 

The magazine "Fine Homebuilding" had a review of Compound Power Miter Boxes
sometime during the past year or so (Issue #84 - I looked it up in the
index the other night but didn't have time to go further)

One surprise was that they rated the Sears Craftsman model very high. (They
were surprised too!) Anyone have firsthand experience?

I've been coveting a Hitachi Sliding Compound Miter Box for years.  However
the price just keeps getting higher.  Guess I should have purchased at
Spag's when they were on sale for ~$400 two years ago.  Delta has recently
been advertising a sliding compound for much less ($400 vs. $600).  Anyone
know how they compare?  With the recent price rises on the Japanese models,
I expected an American manufacturer to jump in.  Have they done as well?

							Mark

	I'd suggest asking in the NOTED::WOODWORKING_AND_TOOLS conference.
	That is generally the place that has the larger discussions about
	tools.

	I personally have a Delta 10" compound mitre saw, and have been very
	happy with it for about a year and a half.

	Roy

    I have a 5 or 6 year old Ryobi, and this summer I've used it to chop
    about 23.7 million studs for the house we're building, and I'm happy
    with it.  If I was coveting one now, I think I'd be in LOVE with the
    new Porter-Cable that has a laser in the saw that illuminates the
    exact saw cut.  Norm Abrams uses one on "New Yankee Workshop," so you
    could watch that and see if your husband reacts...


                                Andy Ostrom

    
    Whatever you get, make sure it can cope with a 4x4 without having
    to remove the blade guard.  The only thing I dislike about the Sears
    are the built-in mitre stops which make it hard to make fine
    adjustments close to 22.5deg or 45deg.
    
    Colin
    

	I'll second the advice on getting one that can cut a 4x4 without
	modification. In fact, one reason I went with the Delta is that it
	cuts a 4x4 at a mitre, or a 2x6 at 90%, with no problem. Some saws
	can't handle stock that big.

	The "laser Loc" feature is supposed to be very nice, but it costs a
	goodly amount of money -- or at least it did when I was looking. If
	I had the extra money to spend, I'd have certainly looked seriously
	at getting it, but the 50% extra cost (at the time) was too much for
	me.

	Roy