Conference 7.286::home_work

Ok, I've given up . anyone out there any ideas on the following problem 


In the living room its all ok, nice and warm , no draft at all
HOWEVER open the door into the Hall (just a crack) and you get a 
Strong draft of COLD air, out in the hall there is no feeling of
air motion but tests with smoke SEEM to show that the air current is
coming down the stairs, but tests upstairs show no real pattern
of flow. (buts its cold up there)

To set the scene, The house was built about 1900, solid walls
and a raised floor downstairs that must allow ventilation under it, 
all windows are double glazed and there is a fire place in each room 
(all units but one (downstairs) have been sealed) ALSO the house
has an extension that does have double walls, attic insulation is
about 4-5 inches.

For the life of me I cannot see where this draft comes from,
the living room is now sealed from this but I would like to
get rid of it completely


The only place upstairs where I can feel a real draft is if I lift
the floor covering(s) and 'test' near the floor board gaps


any help please  !!!!

Ta

PEB

    DO YOU HAVE THE DAMPER CLOSED IN THE FIREPLACE??  OR COULD IT BE
    THAT YOU ARE NOT HEATING THE UPSTAIRS, AND I THINK THAT COLD AIR
    WILL MOVE TOWARDS WARM AIR WHICH COULD BE THE DRAFT YOU FEEL WHEN
    YOU OPEN THE DOOR.
    
    HOPE THIS HELPS

All the fileplaces are closed off but for the one in the living room,
tho you must (and I have) left a small ventilation 'hole' in the 
shutter to stop damp in the flue, but the draft does'nt 'seem'
to be coming from here (smoke test)

yes the upstairs is heated , but its an uphill task with the 
cold there.

Thanks

PEB

My house is 100+ years old. The battle against drafts is ongoing
on yes uphill. Things to check are:

Windows.

Switches and outlets. I have used the foam insulating pads with good results.

Attic access.  I have a hatch door in the cieling of an upstairs bedroom.
    A good "shower" of cold air was found.

cracks between the baseboard and floor. My house was built using ballon
    type construction in parts of it (an addition) therefor an open cellar to
    attic COLD AIR path. 

And yes the fireplaces. Check where the fireplace and wall meet. A small
    crack can produce a large amount of cold air.

Also the type of heating system will have some effect on the distribution of 
warm and cold air in the house. A FWA system has cold air return(s). I have
two on the first floor and none on the second. When I start ripping walls
out I want a tern on the second floor. On of my returns is at the bottom
of the stairs and I swear draws cool air down the stairwell.

Bill

    
    All the warm air in your house is trying to get to the top,and all
    the cold air to the bottom. The stairwell is the only hole in the
    barrier (floor) between the top and the bottom, so air movement
    is concentrated there. I'll bet there's a current of warm air going
    up the stairs at the ceiling, while a current of cool air cascades
    down the steps. This flow is stronger if you try to keep the upstairs
    cooler than the downstairs.
    
    The only cure is to put a door at the top of the stairs (which is
    probably against fire code).

    	I agree with "Wild Bill"!  (.4)  The draft is cool air flowing
    down the steps.  I was once called in to trouble-shoot an aluminum
    window installation at a Bank in Ayer, Mass.   Another crew of the
    company I worked for had done the job and was unable to satisfy
    the bank due to the "Drafts blowing right through those windows!"
    
    	I found that the job was very well done with silicone caulking
    sealing every single possible leak.  Only trouble was that these
    were ten foot high windows!  Even insulated glass gets colder than
    a wall, so there was this "water fall" of air flowing down the
    inside of the windows, bouncing off the sill and hitting the tellers!
    Only suggestion I had for'em was *Drapes*!
    
    				Don Arey

     Yes, there are thresholds made specifically for your type of
    situation. There are metal ones which have a central rubber insert
    to seal to the bottom of the door. Or, you can get a wooden one,
    which would look better but costs more. These mount right onto the
    floor with screws, so they are pretty easy to install.
    
    					Kenny 

    Spag's (of course) sells a thing that goes on the outside of the door
    very near the bottom.  It's spring loaded, so that when the door is
    open, it swings forward a bit so it clears your carpeting.  When you
    close the door, a screw in your door frame pushes the thing back
    (and hence, down) so that it seals snugly against the threshold.
    
    -joet

    
    Thanks for the answers, I believe you've solved this problem for
    me.  I'll investigate both of these methods.
    
    Ken, where have you seen these thresholds?  Grossmans, Spags???
    
    Steve
    

    re .2
    What is the name of the "Thing"? 

        
    
    			herb

    re: .4
    
>    re .2
>    What is the name of the "Thing"? 

    
    It's called a "You Know, That Thing That Goes On The Outside Of The
    Door Very Near The Bottom That's Spring Loaded, So That When The Door
    Is Open, It Swings Forward A Bit So It Clears Your Carpeting, But When
    You Close The Door, A Screw In Your Door Frame Pushes The Thing Back
    (And Hence, Down) So That It Seals Snugly Against The Threshold" and I
    believe that it's a Registered Trademark.  Ask for it by name. 
    
    -joet

    We call it a "door snake"!
    

 
    I have the same problem too, I find shutting all the doors upstairs
    makes a remarkable difference, particularly if I then run the heater
    at the foot of the stairs, so that the small remaining upstairs
    area is fairly warm.

                     Chris H
    

    I have a problem with my front door. It's ugly. This in it self
    is not the problem. It's over 7 feet. This is a problem. I would
    prefere buying a new one. Where ?
    
    Would it be easier to refinish this on ?
    
    The door had a glass panel in it that the previous owner replaced
    with a peice of plywood. How do I get Glass back in it?
    
    
    Thanks in advance for any help or ideas.

Don't know what your budget is or how ambitious you are, but a new door can
be had from around $150-$300.  Last year there were even some at Spags.

Replacing a door is NOT a very difficult job, since it's already put together.
All you do it put it in the opening and nail it in - less and 1/2 hour's work.

The work is in preparing the opening.  In you case, you have to rip out the old
door and probably mess up the exterior/interior of the house.  Next you need to
make sure the framing is the right size for the new door.  Since most front
doors are 36" wide, you may have a standard opening.  You also need to make sure
everything is level and plumb.

Finally, after the door is in, you have to deal with the exterior/interior.
This may be more work than the rest of the job.

-mark

    
    Another possibility would be to go to a wrecking slavage yard. I went
    to one in Providence, that had tons of doors, okay a slight
    exageration, but they did have 3 or 4 large rooms stacked with doors.
    The guy had some that were new, but the majority were used, there were
    some very nice ones and a number of the oversized doors.  Anyhow you
    could get a Oak door for between $50-100. 
    
    Dan
    

    re .1, .2  I think the major problem is the size of the door.  I
    also have an oversized door and have found that Spags, Grossmans,
    Somerville, etc.  do not stock and often can't get oversize doors.
    Does anyone know of a place that does handle oversize doors?  (7'2"
    x 40")

    Try calling Regional Window Distributors.
    
    Their number in Londonderry, N.H. is (603) 434-8874
    
    If they don't have the door, or can't build it, they could probably
    refer you to someone who could.

    Thanks for all the ideas... I'm leaning toward the tons of doors
    at the salvage place. Can you give me the address ?

    Can't exactly remeber the name of the place, just remeber how to
    get there.  Though I checked the phonebook and I believe it is
    	International Building Wrecking Co. 
    	#(401)861-2881 
    	on Tuxedo Ave in Providence.  
    
    You might want to call and make sure.  I will put the directions
    on how to get there below.
    
    Dan
    
    
    Directions from 95:  Take 95 south into Providence until you get
    to the Atwells Ave Exit, it will be after you go by the State house
    on the left.  Go up the exit ramp and take a right at the light
    onto Atwells Ave.  Keep going straight, through a few sets of lights,
    down the hill, and over a brigde (overpass).  At the next light
    there should be Harrison Lumber on the left, go to the next light
    and take a left, the entrance to the salvage yard will be on the
    left, you have to look for the sign.  It isn't that hard to get
    to.

    This seems to be the place to ask this question.
    
    I am looking to get 2 storm/screen doors. I would greatly appreciate
    any suggestions as to places to look at.  I have some conflicting
    info as to what a good price for a door is. Someone told me that
    $120 for a storm door (of good to execellent quality) INSTALLED
    is something to shoot for. Another said that $150 just for the door
    is the average price around here. Anyone who could tell me what
    the real prices are, by all means tell me, as that is an important
    part in my decision.
    
    	Thanks,
    	Andy

Modern Manufacturing, Worcester is quite reasonable- good selection 

    UNfortunatly , worcester is a little out of the way. I should have
    mentioned before that I live in Brookline, NH. So am looking for
    something in the Southern NH area.
    
    Andy

    Try Nashua Glass, in Nashua.  I can get their phone numebr when
    I get home.
    
    I looked everywhere for a self-storing storm.  I eventually bought
    one from them sight-unseen.  It took a couple weeks longer than
    they expected to come in, but that seems to be the norm around here. 
    
    They are a real glass co that does re-glazing & screeing.  The door
    is pretty well made, although thicker than necessary - it has three
    tracks instead of two.  I paid $200 for my (3') front door, in brown
    anodized with all the hardware.  
    
    Install it yourself, unless the doorway is very out of square. 
    Just take the exact dimensions and a drawing with you.  The door comes
    in the frame: just hold it up against your existing wood door frame,
    and drive in the screws.  It takes 15 minutes.  Then you'll have
    to put on the latch etc, but it's real easy.
    
    If you want to know how cheap you can get, look at the Sears catalog.
    You might just squeak in at $120 if you install yourself, but I
    wouldn't want to go in an out of that door a lot.  You get what
    you pays for ...  The Sears Best might be an OK door: my wife checked
    themout at the store, and then said that she didn't want one on
    our house, so I didn't look more closely.
                           
    Well, that's what I did, anyhow.
    

    I have a Stanley metal door from spags that I'm putting a lockset
    on.  
    The piece that fits into the 3/4" hole at the edge of the door has
    a 1"x2" plate that usually fits into a cutout (at least on wood
    doors) so it is flush with the edge of the door.  
    It's about 1/8" to 3/16" thick.  Do you know what piece I mean?
    Anyway, the Stanley door doesn't have the place to put this plate.
    I have another metal door (Benchmark) which does have the place
    for this plate.
    The door won't close unless this plate is flush with the edge of
    the door.
    I was thinking about it on the way to work, and I wondered if
    I'm supposed to remove this plate from the lockset.  Is that the
    solution?
    

    Doesn't the plate also have the screw holes by which the bolt mechanism
    is attached to the door? If so, removing the plate sounds like an
    unviable (and probably impossible) alternative.

>        Doesn't the plate also have the screw holes by which the bolt mechanism
>    is attached to the door? If so, removing the plate sounds like an
>    unviable (and probably impossible) alternative.

    Yes, it does have screw holes.  But I thought maybe the plate wasn't 
    needed on a metal
    door since the bolt can't go anywhere (since it's surrounded by
    metal).
    
    Also, I can't cut out the opening for the plate since then there
    will be noplace to screw the plate to.  I assume there nothing in
    the door except insulation.

    There has to be some way you're supposed to do this.
    

    The last lockset I put in included the plate, but it's installation
    was optional.  The striker had a collar that was a press-in fit
    for the opening in the door.  Then, you only had to add the plate
    if the original lockset had one and there was a hole left by the
    old one....
    
    					Larry
    

    My boyfriend just installed deadbolts in my steel doors.  He said
    the lock part was a pain (drilling and sawing through the steel),
    but the bolt through the side was easy, because the door is wood
    inside.  I'll check what he did with the plates tonight.
    
    Elaine

>        but the bolt through the side was easy, because the door is wood
>    inside.

    That's what it was.  The edge of the door is wood.  Only the faces
    of the door are metal.  Inside is insulation, except for strips
    of wood along all four edges.  It was all primed the same color
    and looked like all metal.
    The Benchmark steel door I have has no exposed wood.
    
    I chiseled out the groove for the plate.
    

    Does anyone have suggestions as to where I can get an INEXPENSIVE
    Firecode STEEL door (plain) for use between my new attached
    garage and the living space in my house? I have a quote from
    SOMERVILLE (delivered) for CLASS-B, 1-1/2 hour STANLEY FIRECODE
    for 225.00. Any other places I should check, or go with this one?
    
    Mark
    

    I was in the Spag's Schoolhouse this weekend (buying Gel Gloss)
    and I saw people looking at the Stanley exterior steel door that
    was on display.  I didn't notice the price, though.  Maybe someone
    else did.
    
    Elaine
    

    I bought a windowless steel prehung door on sale at Grossmans bargain
    outlet for $90.  It looked like a Stanley door, but had a small
    ding and all the labels were removed.  It makes a great cellar door.
    						=Ralph=
    
    

    A steel door is not necessarily a *firecode* door, I don't believe....
    

    Exactly my point... I MUST buy a FIRECODE door, not just steel.
    
    ANy other suggestions?
    
    Mark
    

    	Just what is a firecode door? My house in Hudson MA. was built
    2 years ago and the door they used between the garage and basement
    is a standard hollow interior door with a sheet of 1/16 inch galvanized
    steel nailed to it. I hope it passed inspection?
    
    					...Dave
    

    A door is firecode-rated by somebody like Underwriters Laboratories.
    It has to withstand X hours of some sort of standard fire without
    failing in specified ways, or whatever.  They tend to be expensive.
    The requirements for doors between garages and houses are less
    stringent.  Firecode stuff is mostly required for public buildings,
    I think.  If you look on the edge of a steel door where you work,
    you'll probably see a little metal plate with some sort of UL
    rating on it.

    I just spoke with my bldg inspector (I might note that the town
    of SHIRLEY, MA is usually very leanient on what will pass) and he
    indicated that YES, it does HAVE TO BE a REAL firecode door with
    UL rating. Infact, he told me that even existing homeowners are
    being told to REPLACE their not compliant doors with FIRECODE ones
    when it comes time to sell the house.
    
    SO, I am still looking for a REAL LIVE FIRECODE DOOR. Sounds like
    Somerville Lumber here I come...
    
    Mark
    

The door dosent have to be metal to have a UL rating as a firedoor.
    A door that is approved by the UL for use as a fire door should
    have a metal tag attached to the hinge side of the door.
    Another point of consideration is what they require for time rating
    i.e. 20 minutes, 1 &1/2 hour ect. A higher test time means a more
    expensive door.
    
    -j
    

    When planning for a slider (to replace a six-foot picture window)
    out onto my new deck, I decided I wanted a patio door that was vinyl
    clad on the exterior and wood on the interior (much like the casement
    window I had had installed in the kitchen -- I planned to use an
    interior white stain on the wood).  I placed an order for an Andersen
    Permashield in a carload sale in late April.
    
    The order arrived in late June.  While I went with a neighbor to
    pick up the slider, the installers cut out the interior wall and
    removed the shingles.  Upon opening the boxes, they discovered that
    the sliders were entirely vinyl clad.
    
    The spec on the slider had been correct, but Grossman's agreed that
    they and the catalog had been misleading and offered to let me replace
    the slider with a new model, much like what I thought I had ordered
    in the first place.  It was expected the order would take at least
    a week to ten days.  It's now been almost four weeks, and yesterday
    I learned that the new model won't be available until the end of
    August!  (My kitchen was in my bedroom for almost six months during
    a remodeling project, and now the dining room is in the living room
    during this project.  I am getting a little weary of all the chaos!)   
    
    At this point, should I just abandon my original idea and go with
    the fully vinyl-clad slider?  But what I've really wanted is the
    wood look inside the house.  Should I be less concerned about saving
    on maintenance (given the vinyl exterior) and just get an all wood
    patio door?
    
    Suggestions/recommendations would be most welcome -- thank you!

    	I have 3 all wood sliders and don' see all that much of a problem
    with maintanance. After all there is very little to paint on a slider.
    
    	Another posability is if the two sliders are the same size and
    you can talk them into letting you take the all vinyl ones until
    the new one comes in, The sliders can be removed rather easily after
    instalation so you could finsh your wall and just swap them later.
    
    			...Dave
    

    It would seem that Grossman's or someone is hoping to tire you out
    so that you will use the door that you already have.  If you break
    down and use what you are not happy with, you will regret it every
    time you look at the door.  If you are putting a lot of money into
    this job, then you should wait it out and put in wht you really
    want and not compromise.  In the meantime, why can't the doors be
    picked up from some other store.  Surely Grossmans could call around
    and get it shipped from either one of their stores or from some
    other store.  Aren't they a nationwide chain?
    

    The someville price is in the right range, so go with it.  I have
    a Stanley fircode door I bought last year, and was about the same
    price - there wasn't much variance when I looked around (Somerville,
    Northboro lumber, Coldwell's, etc).
    
    Spags does not sell Firecode doors, they sell Stanley steel doors.
    
    You can tell if it is a fire code door because there is a UL label
    on the edge, usually near the hinges.
    
    Steel firecode is the most common, and the cheaper, but as someone
    else pointed out, it is not the only way.  They can actually build
    firecode from wood; remember that firce code doesn't mean that it
    CANNOT burn, just that it will RESIST burning for the specified
    period of time.  Mass Code requires 90 minute doors between the
    garage and the living quarters (so the guy with the regular door
    is in trouble!).
    
    LATE BREAKING NEWS:  As I'm typing my wife walked in with a flyer
    from Webber lumber, which has lots of door/windows/etc on sale.
     Maybe give them a call.  Since the doors need to be ordered, chances
    are they are not on sale, but ... 
    
    -reed
    

    I started a three room addition on my home back in the summer of
    85'. One room is a sunroom which has 3 6ft Anderson Perma-shield
    (all vinyl-clad) sliders with "High Performance Glass". I would
    have preferred the wood interior, but the white vinyl still looks
    great. Anderson did not make and as far as I know still do not
    make vinyl on the outside and wood on the inside (like their 
    casements) on their sliders. I will be putting red ceder boards
    on the interior walls (I have red cedar on the exterior also) in
    about two weeks. If you'd like to see what the sliders look like
    installed , I live in Salem NH. Call me at DTN 261-3326. By the
    way my wife and I installed them ourselves. In fact, except for
    the foundation and shell, I've done everything myself.(That's why
    I'm not quite done yet). 

Gee, this is sure a timely note.  I too am planning on getting andersen
sliders and I sort of assumed the vinyl clad meant only on the outside.  I would
certainly prefer a wooden interior too.  I've just started pricing them (and I
guess the price is for ALL vinyl).  Those suckers aren't cheap!

The best local price I found was at Concord Lumber (with my contractors 
discount) and came to $689.37 with low-E glass.  The wood grills are an extra
$85!

I had put in an earlier note about Window Wizards (they're in Penn) and was
told that their prices are no better than anyone elses.  They quoted me $639.70
plus $50 shipping (regardless of the size of the order).

If it were only a question of $50, I'd probably stay local but I'm planning on
buying 4 of these plus windows and skylights too.  So now I'm looking at 
multiple hundreds of $$$ savings and am teased.  BUT - I'm still skeptical...

has anyone had any dealings with them?

btw - their prices on Velux were also around $25-$50 cheaper per skylight and
	the prices I got at Concord WERE contractors prices so Window Wizards
	really DO appear to be a good deal.

	As for Velux skylights, their venting skylights run close to $200 a 
	piece more than Rotos!  When buying multiples, that's one hell of a
	difference.

-mark

My house has a stone front. The front door jamb is set directly into 
the stone (head sized round stones not flat ones). The door is
round on top, 50 years old and, unfortunately, irregular down both
sides. That means it is an unintentional source of fresh air and
sunlight almost all the way around it. The gaps are substantial and 
beyond the scope of weatherstripping to cope with.

In short, I can not change the shape of the door without dynamite and 
I can not find an off-the-shelf door anywhere. Somerville Lumber gave
me "$3,000-3,500" as a ballpark figure for a custom job.

Does anyone have happy experience (quality, price) with a custom door 
maker between rte. 128 and Worcester the Mass Pike and NH border?

John H.

    	The doors on my house are shorter than standard so I had to
    get a custom door also. Makki's Lumber cut a standard steel door
    to my size for $25. They may be able to help you get "around" (oh
    that's bad) your problem.
    					jak
    

    How high is the rough opening?  Could you install a normal
    (rectangular) door with a half-round window over it, such as Marvin
    or Andersen will custom-make for you?  I'm sure the whole deal would
    be much less than 3k, but if the opening is such that your door
    would be 4 feet high, then maybe even a vestibule with a normal
    door would cost less.
    
    Pete

    RE: .4
    
    In the near future (end of August), Andersen is coming out with a
    slider with a finish that is vinyl-clad on the exterior and wood
    on the interior.  I believe the slider is referred to as a French
    wood slider.  You can check with Somerville Lumber or Grossman's
    for more information.
    
    As for the best prices ... If you can stand the wait and there are
    any carload sales on Andersens in the area, you can get a fairly
    good deal.  The high performance (E-glass) vinyl-clad slider I bought
    in the April carload sale at Grossman's in Nashua cost $598.
    
    --Cindy

    Try Imperial Millwork tel # 238-3779. We used them to supply
    the interior doors for our house. My aunt has a door like you 
    are describing, and they got it made a millwork place. 
    
    Sounds like Somerville Lumber is trying to rip you off.

re: .2

The stone entrance is already a vestibule hanging off the front of an 
otherwise ordinary cape. 

I thought of the round transom-like window. however, the top of the 
door would then get me in the adam's apple should I ever forget and 
run out the door without ducking!

John H.

$3000-$3500!  I'll come and do it for you for half that :^)

Seriously, though, your best bet is probably to find a creative carpenter and 
have him custom make one for you.  I doubt that millwork places would want to 
touch it, they're set up to do production work, and most don't really want to 
do something like a custom door.  A carpenter, on the other hand, might 
consider it a fun challenge, and he certainly will be able to do it for less 
than the price you already have.
    
>    Sounds like Somerville Lumber is trying to rip you off.

Not really.  They're just following standard bidding practice.  If the job is a 
real pain in your ass and you don't really want to do it, bid it so high that 
it will pay for your annoyance if the client is foolish or desperate enough to
accept.

Paul

    Coldwell's in Berlin, Mass. has a millwork shop.  I've never had
    them do any millwork for me, but as a lumberyard they've always
    given me good service.

    If you're feeling particularly handy, you might check out the book
    "Handcrafted Doors & Windows" by Amy Zaffarano.  I got a copy, and
    it has some nice ideas for how to build unusual doors & windows.
    
    If you're not feeling handy, you still may want to pick up a copy
    for some additional ideas for a replacement.
    
    - Mark

    I'd second the idea of calling different carpenters.
    
    Ross Jenson in Brookline, NH is one we used and he might consider
    it.  Don't have his phone number but it is listed.  
    
    (You see correctly that's Brookline, NH not Mass.)
    
    Rich

    
    
    When I was growing up we lived in an old, old farm house that had 
    funny shaped doors of odd sizes.  When it became necessary to replace
    the bathroom door my Dad had one made at Coldwell's in Berlin. 
    That was a few years back, but my husband and I frequently buy
    materials there and it still seems like and old-time, customer oriented
    place, so give it a try!
    
    Conni
    

    
    An Atrium Door can be ordered prefinished in a white epoxy paint
    on the exterior, and unfinished pine or oak for the inside.
    
    These are not sliders, but more like French Doors.  Just another
    alternative. Wood grills for the interior can also be ordered 
    prefinished.
    
    Steve
    
    

    Kesseli & Morse on Canterbury St. in Worcester sell metal
    fire doors.  I can't help on the price but everything else
    we've bought there has been lower priced than elsewhere.
    They aren't a home center style store and carry a lot of
    non-standard items.
    

    I have looked under doors and flooring for this subject and haven't
    been able to locate it yet.  Sorry if this is a repeat.  I'd choose
    the keyword "rot" for this, I think.
    
    My side panels of my front door are pushing in and there is rot
    on the frame that's cased the entrance flooring to decay.  I believe
    the rot has NOT yet reached the sill.  My front entrance flooring
    is tiled.
    
    Does anyone know the easiest/cheapest way to remedey this problem?
    Can the original tile be saved?  Shall I replace just the side panels
    or the whole front door also?
    
    Thanks for any help you can give me....I'm really new at this type
    of problem!

    Please excuse this bit of discouraging news but I  think it should
    figure in your calculations.  I once read this rule of thumb which
    I've found to be accurate.  When dealing with rot that is partially
    obscured, poke around and try to figure out how far the rot extends
    and then double it.  That was the case with both my rotted bathroom
    floor and my rotting porch roof.  If there is even a suspicion
    that a piece of wood may need to be replaced, when you expose it
    you'll find it does indeed need to be replaced and possibly the
    next piece as well.
    
    -Bob (with new porch roof and toilet flange gasket)

    You ought to be able to reuse the tiles, no problem.  The only
    aggravation may be in cleaning the old adhesive off the back.
    
    I'm not sure what you mean by "door side panels".

    Thanks for the info so far!  By "door side panels", I mean the
    SIDE LIGHTS, I guess they're called.  The two panels of wood
    that have small glass panes on each side of the front door.
    
    Was wondering if anyone tried to stop the rot by replacing what
    they could and using some sort of resin to petrify the wood
    remaining and thereby save ripping up the tiles......my boyfriend
    tried something like this on his boat and thought it might
    work on this....
    
    Appreciate the responses!
    
    Helaine

    That's what I thought you must mean, but I wasn't sure.  About the
    only way to find out what you need to do is to start taking stuff
    apart until everything rotted is uncovered. Absolutely no predictions.
    
    The "Git-Rot" stuff they use for boats tends to be pretty expensive.
    If you have a cavity in a beam that you can dig out and fill it
    might make sense.  As far as the floor is concerend, I'd guess it
    would be cheaper/easier/better in the long run to take up as many
    tiles as you need to and possibly replace a section of the subfloor
    if necessary.  That shouldn't be too hard. You may have more problems
    at the bottoms and edges of the sidelights, if the rot has penetrated
    into the frame.
    

    We have just the beginnings of rot in the wood surrounding the
    glass windows.  There is very little.  Has anyone every put
    a storm glass panel over the sidelights?  (The glass panel would
    be on the exterior or the house)  We get a lot of condensation now
    because it is one pane of tempered glass, which has started a little
    rot.  If so, i'd like to know if it helped your problem, what type
    of glass you used (tempered, plexi-glass, safety glass?).  WE are
    trying to determine if we should go with glass panels or a whole
    new
    door unit with new sidelights.  Any responses are greatly appreciated!
    

    Re: .5
    
    We had a problem with ice/condensation build up on our sidelights
    (single pane glass, and the wood areas near the bottom were'nt
    what you'd call air tight).  I had a local glass company cut
    2 pieces of plexiglass (one for each side) to the exact size.
    I just placed the pieces on the outside of the door, and held them
    in place with 1/4 round molding, and caulked the edges when done.
    It's been in place for 4 years now - much warmer inside, and no
    condensation inside the house, or in between the plexiglass and
    the original panels.
    
    However - we didn't have any rot starting on our panels.  If you've
    already got rot starting, you're probably better off fixing the
    rot BEFORE you put the storm panel over the outside.  The plexiglass
    panel won't create an air-tight fit, so there'll still be a bit
    of moisture to help the existing rot along...
    
    andy
    

    
    
    	I just took dilivery of a new font door for my house. It is
    a Morgan door with 14" windows on either side all stained glass.
    The door and windows came as one unit about 6' wide in unfinished
    wood as I ordered it that way so I could stain instead of painting.
    My question is..............?
    
    	How should I finish the outside ? Stain, Varnish or what ?
    I don't want to paint it but am unsure as to how to finish something
    that will be exposed to the elements ?
    
    	-Steve-
    

    Thompsons water seal followed by shellac or varnish would be my
    choice.
    -j

    Read and follow the manufacturer's directions on finishing this door,
    especially since it sounds like an expensive one! 
    
    Last week there was an article in the Worcester (Mass.) Evening Gazette
    Contact column (kinda like a consumer help column) about someone that
    bought a new unfinished wood door so that they could finish it the way
    they wanted. They used several coats of a brand name stain/wood
    preservative. Within a year the door started to warp and split. After
    going back to the door retailer and then the manufacturer, the bottom
    line was that they didn't follow the manufacturer directions and they
    were out one door! 
    
    If I remember correctly, the manufacturer said the door should be
    SEALED with a wood sealer. The Contact people even called the
    stain/wood preservative company to ask if their product could be
    considered a "wood sealer", the said NO, its a "wood preservative"! 
    
    Follow the manufacturer's directions or your warranty won't be worth
    the paper it's written on. If they didn't include finishing directions
    with the door, CALL THEM AND ASK! 

    Charly

             
    
       I just spent last week-end finishing 2 Morgan exterior doors
    for my house. I was unsure about the protection myself so I went
    to a couple paint stores to ask how to protect them after staining.
    What I did was after I stained them I used 3 coats of UGL clear
    exterior eurothyene (sp?). The first coat mixed with 20% paint thinner 
    with light sanding between each coat. This was the first time I've done
    this and was a little worried about the outcome but they came out 
    great. Also I did all this before I had them intstalled which made
    it a lot easier to do. I made a point of even eurothyening the whole
    jamb, meaning the side you don't see, hoping to stop any kind of
    jamb expansion do to weather. There are alot of different kinds
    of eurothyene or what ever to coat your stain I just chose UGL cause
    I've had satisfaction with their other products and they have a good
    reputation in the home magazines I've read.
    
    Good Luck 
    Ted

    1st of the morgan line is a pretty good line of doors.
    for an exterior finish, i would recommend a high quality marine
    spar varnish or marine spar urethane. the "marine" grade is
    highly resistant to the effect of u.v. from the sun.
    keep one thing in mind with varnish, they tend over the years
    to turn darker. the other and __most important thing is make
    sure you completley seal the entire door with the urethane
    or varnish. all of it including both sides and all of the 
    4 edges. this will greatly minimize expansion and contraction
    if not totally eliminate it.
    most of this should have been detailed on a instruction sheet
    that came with the door.
    
    jim.                        
    

    The front door of our new house is a typical insulated steel door,
    the Stanley model K-1 with six raised panels and no windows at the
    top.  We'd like to have our front door have 4 small windows at the
    top to let more light into the hallway.  I see several options:

    1.  Replace the door and its frame.  This seems like more than
	is necessary to accomplish what we want.

    2.  Replace just the door, keeping the frame.  We've heard that
	even doors from the same manufacturer vary and it can't be
	guaranteed that a replacement door would fit in the frame and
	the latch would line up.  Any experiences with this?

    3.  Have windows put into our existing door.  Seems like a
	reasonable alternative, in fact, we've heard that the Stanley
	doors with windows in them are made from the solid doors.
	Is this a DIY job?  How much would this cost?

    Buy a new door at Spags and replace just the door.  Measure it
    before you buy it to make sure it all lines up.  Worst case is
    you'll have to move a hinge or something but that's not bad.
    
    I never heard of a kit to add the windows, but how would you cut
    thru the door?  Tin snips?
    

    I don't think you can cut more than 1/2" or so off each end of a standard,
hollow-core door.  I haven't taken apart one of these, but the wood spacers
(or frame or whatever) at each end and around the sides aren't too wide.
    A nice solid-wood door - sure.

    If you get a door with hinges already on, you'll probably want to cut the
same amount off top AND bottom, instead of just top OR bottom.

>    I don't think you can cut more than 1/2" or so off each end of a standard,
> hollow-core door.  

Be careful if you do this.  A lot of hollow core doors have a little metal 
cleat (You know, the little corrugated ones that are sharp on one end that you 
drive into a joint to hold it together - I think they're called chevrons) 
inside holding the bottom frame piece to the side frame piece.  You can cut 
more than 1/2" off the bottom of the door, but if you do you're likely to hit 
this metal piece, destroying your sawblade.

Can you hear the voice of experience coming through here? :^)

Paul

    re .-2
    > solid wood doors - sure.
    
    sure!  I thought so too.  I bought some 18" wide panel doors to
    do a bifold on a closet.  I needed to trim a 1/2" on either side
    of the door.  First cut showed me just how solid they were.  The
    exposed area now consisted of a series of glued up pieces, some
    of which were wet to the touch (pitch).  These had been sitting
    in my bedroom for over a year.  [so, I had some other projects and
    these kept slipping.  Know how it is??]
    
    When I looked carefully at the ends, I could see a very nice veneer
    type of work.  I had to trim an extra 3/16 and then glue a piece
    back on.  Doesn't look as nice as I would like but what are you
    gonna do.  I don't think I can return the doors after a year and
    a half buying them on sale.
    
    Take a good long look at the 'solid' door you are going to trim.
    Just remembered.  I had told the guy what I was going to do when
    I bought them.  He said "No problem.  They're solid doors".
    Riiiiiight.

    I've trimmed several inches off of hollow core doors without a problem.
    First, you cut off the bottom, including the wooden strip, chevrons,
    and all, so that the door is the right height.  So, you now the
    bottom edge of the door looks like a hollow sandwich:
    
                 _______________________________________ <- veneer surface
    		 XXXX                               XXXX
    		 XXXX                               XXXX <- wood edge strip
    		 ---------------------------------------
    
    The cavity may be filled with a honeycomb of paper guled in place
    - if so, push it out of the way.
    
    Now you cut a strip of wood, about 2 inches wide and as thick as the
    cavity between the veneer panels of the door.  This is quite easy if
    you have a table or radial-arm saw, or are handy with a plane.  Now cut
    it to length and gule it in place, holing it with clamps or panel pins
    while the glue sets.
    
    It's done.  At least you canbe sure that the venner panels are "solid";
    the work you do will never be seen so as long as it is sound, it
    doesn't have to be so neat. 

    I've done the same thing but instead of cutting a new piece of wood
    use the original one from the door.  The veneer comes off easily
    with a chisel and it's always a perfect fit.
    
    George
    
    

    Could this be done with a Steel entry door? ie. if you needed to raise
    the door to clear carpeting, or tile? If you took the bottom rail
    out first, cut the door, then replaced the bottom rail?
    
    Anybody ever do this? (I've thought about it but never did it)
    
    I guess you would have to raise the threshold also.
                                   
    

    I need to make a back door for my screen house.  The screen house
    is currently bottom half wood on inside and vinyl siding on outside.
    The top half is all screen panels.
    
    I could use some advice on making the door frame.  The door will
    be a standard size storm door.  I plan to:
    
    1.  pull off the vinyl siding
    2.  remove screening
    3.  remove inside wood panels
    
    this should get me to the framing of the area.
    
    I then want to construct a door frame. 
    
    Questions I have are:
    
    What should the size of the rough door frame be?
    What is the general construction method in regards to placement
    of the 2 X 4's.  Do I double up on the sides?
    I have to do something for a header, what?
    
    Thanks in advance, Mark.
    

I'll take a shot at it.

First you need yo know what size door you want!  They tend to come in all sizes
but the most popular are 30, 32, 34 and 36.  Typically there is 3/4" trim on
both sides adding another 1-1/2".  Most installations recommend 1/4" on each 
side of that for a total of 2" on top of the standard door width.

As for a header, I don't know the load on your roof, but I "think" a 2X6 header
would suffice.

typical construction is:



	+---------------------------------------
	+---------------------------------------
	      ||||      ||	||||   actually, you might not need this
	      ||||	||	||||   section if you used a wider header,
	      ||+----------------+||   but I don't know what the overall height
	      |||		 |||   is to the roof.
	      |||     2 2X6's	 |||
	      |||          	 |||   notice that the header is 3" wider than
	      ||+----------------+||   the opening for the screen door (so it
	      ||||		||||   can sit on the 2 2X4's
	      ||||		||||
	      ||||		||||   also notice the way I've drawn this you
	      ||||		||||   wouldn't have 16" on center studs over
	      ||||		||||   the header.  this is not exactly standard
	      ||||<--width+2"-->||||   but that's the way I'd do it.
	      ||||		||||
	      ||||		||||
	      ||||		||||
	      ||||		||||
	


-mark

    Thanks Mark.
    
    The height of the wall is about 7 feet.  I doubt very much that
    there is any support required here since all there is now is
    screens on the top half.  The supports must be handled at the
    4 corners of the screen house.
    
    Mark C.

    This might have been asked somewhere else, but a casual look around
    produced nothing.
    
    I am replacing a prehung basement door that was installed in a 
    concrete foundation opening. The rough concrete opening is roughly
    the same size as the prehung door jamb, so there is no room to fill
    in with 1x or 2x material. The new prehung door (Stanley) has a
    brick mold attached to it.
    
    How can I effectively install this door onto the concrete foundation?
    Using masonry nails is a real hassle and I don't want to risk splitting
    the jamb.                                                            
    
    Any suggestions will be most appreciated.
    
    DS

    re:  installing door into concrete.
    
    First, I don't know what a brick mold is.
    
    But anyway, did you check what kind of nails were used to hang the
    original door?  Sometimes when they pour a concrete foundation,
    they stick 2x6's into the concrete where the door is going to go so
    you have something to nail the door to.  When they remove the forms
    from the foundation you're left with 2x6's flush with the concrete
    and can nail your basement door jamb to these boards.
    
    If they didn't do that,  I'd use long masonry nails and pre-drill
    the holes in the new jambs so they don't split.
    

    I think I'd first drill through the frame in several places when
    I wanted fasteners to go, then set the frame in place and shim it 
    square, tightly enough so it doesn't move.  Use a small masonary
    drill and drill through your pre-drilled holes in the frame into
    the concrete; the drill will probably want to wander around some,
    if you hit any rocks.  Remove the frame, change to a larger-sized
    masonary drill, and enlarge the holes enough to accept masonary
    anchors of some kind.  Replace the frame again, line everything
    up, and screw the frame in place, going into the masonary anchors.
    
    Ideally, there would be enough space so you could put in a rough
    frame of 1x6 or something, then install the finish frame and nail
    it to the rough frame, but from your description I guess you can't
    do that.
    

    Don't buy fiber glass front door.  I brought my in December and
    paid a thousand dollar for it including two side panel (it is about
    $500 for steel door) just because my wife wanted to stain the door.
    The workmanship is sort of OK, but in the last couple days, I found
    a problem.  In the early morning the sun hit right onto the door,
    I can the heat on it just like a frying pan, and the upper part
    of the door wrap back toward the inside of the house and leave
    a gap about 1/4" to 1/2" wide. When I came home in the afternoon,
    the sun is gone and the door cool down and it is straight again,
    no gap at all.  The fiber glass door is guaranteed not to wrap,
    can I return the door? or have my money back?
    
    Pak
    

    What brand door is it?  Where did you buy the door?

    Also, do yu have a storm door over the Fibreglass door? If so, you
    should probably have an inexpensive door that is not to air tight.
    It will let in enough fresh air to keep things cool. 
    
    If you have an expensive/insulated  storm door covering the fibreglass
    door, the air between the two doors can heat up and cause problems.
     

    The brand is Thermo-Thru?, I brought it from Mullen window and door
    at Marlboro.  I don't have a storm door installed yet.  Also, I
    don't think a thousand dollar door is inexpensive.
    
    Pak
    

    re:.3,.2
    
    I think .2 was saying that the STORM DOOR should be a cheap one!
    With no storm door, the sun beats on the fiberglass door.  With
    a cheap storm door, there'll be less sunlight but still sufficient
    venting to keep the air space from heating up.

    WANTED DECORATIVE DOOR PLATES FOR ALL MY INTERIOR DOORS (NEED ABOUT
    TWO DOZEN).  
    
    CALL DTN 351-2668.

I assume what you want is a supplier that sells decorative door plates.  (What 
are decorative door plates, anyway?)  Going under that assumption, I keyworded 
this note under DOORS - see that keyword directory (1111.23) for other notes 
asking about door hardward - maybe you can find a supplier there.

If you're asking some reader of this file if they have 20 or so of these
whatever-they-are that they want to sell, that goes in note 1666. 

Paul

    if I may use a diagram and some wording from .1 ...
    
>First you need yo know what size door you want!  They tend to come in all sizes
>but the most popular are 30, 32, 34 and 36.  Typically there is 3/4" trim on
>both sides adding another 1-1/2".  Most installations recommend 1/4" on each 
>side of that for a total of 2" on top of the standard door width.


>typical construction is:



	+---------------------------------------
	+---------------------------------------
	      ||||      ||	||||   
	      ||||	||	||||   
	      ||+----------------+||   
	      |||		 |||   
	      |||     2 2X6's	 |||
	      |||          	 |||   
	      ||+----------------+||   
	      ||||		||||   
	      ||||		||||
	      ||||		||||   
	      ||||		||||   
	      ||||		||||   
	      ||||<--width+2"-->||||   
	      ||||		||||
	      ||||		||||
	      ||||		||||
	      ||||		||||
	      ||||		||||
	      ||||		||||
	      ||||		||||
	---------------------------------------
	--------------------------------------- 
    		    ^^^^^  represents a single 2 X 4 (plate ??)
    
	ok..  with this in mind,  my mom called me the other day about
    doing a doorway in some new construction..  she said "... the book
    says to add 1-1/2 inches to the width and 3 inched to the height."
    to me, 3 inches sounds a little steep for clearance on a door frame.
    She's hanging a solid wood door - not prehung hollow ones.  I've
    done the hollow doors and 3 inches would put the moulding on the
    edge of the frame if it covers it at all..    does anyone know if
    moms book is right for  these solid wood doors and frames ?     
    And if it is correct (or incorrect for that matter), do the
    measurements for the rough opening come from the floor or the 
    top of the plate (if that's accually what it's called) ?
    
    thanks...
    Keith
    

    
    	3" sounds excessive.  I believe mine were 2" and I had plenty
    	of room to spare with that.  The measurement is from the floor
    	since the bottom plate is cut out after the rest has been
    	framed in.

    My front door is rusting. I contacted the condo association which had a
    guy come by. I swear all he did was brush some sandpaper over it and
    then paint it. The rust was coming through by the next morning. Now the
    association says I will have to replace the door. Can anyone help? I
    figure there has got to be more that I can do. I'm willing to do
    anything rather than fork out megabucks to buy a new door. 

    Nancy

Read your condo documents.  Is the door part of common property?  (It 
is is most developments).  Attend your next board meeting and protest. 
 You have already paid for its replacement through your monthly 
payments.  They should replace it.  (its worth a shot).

    No the door and the windows are my responsiblity. The best I can
    do is try to complain to the manufacturer. But trying to fix the
    door sounds easier.
    
    nancy

    
    	About the only solution is to sand and paint.  You've got to
    get down through the rust to the good metal, then paint it.  If
    the rust is so bad that it has created a hole, you could patch
    it with automobile bondo.  If it is too much for you, a new door
    does not cost megabucks, only a couple hundred at the most since
    you already have the frame, and that doesn't need to be replaced.

      I   disagree   with  a  previous  reply  about  who  is  generally
      responsible for doors in a condominium. I think you will generally
      find  that  that  the  paint on the outside is common property but
      that the door itself is part of  the  unit.   So  paining  is  the
      association's problem but replacement, if required, is yours.  
      
      This  sort  of  thing can varry widely, so check carefully in your
      condominium declaration.
      
      As stated in a previous note, doors aren't all that expensive.  It
      may be chaper in the long run to replace it,  rather  than  patch,
      patch, patch, etc.
      
          Charlie-who-spent-three-years-as-a-condo-assoc-pres

An alternative, if the door is structurally sound: sand/scrape off loose
paint and rust, prime with rustoleum, then ask the condo assoc to repaint
it (if they indeed own the surface paint).  Rustoleum, as its name implies,
is designed to be painted right over rust, so long as it isn't flaking.

	Larry

    Ditto to 2600.5, but if you want to make sure that you never see
    any rust use some navel jelly and a wire brush. This will remove
    the rust down to the bare metal.
    

    Re: .6
    
    Just keep that "navel jelly" out of your belly button....
    
    			Steve

<An alternative, if the door is structurally sound: sand/scrape off loose
<paint and rust, prime with rustoleum, then ask the condo assoc to repaint
<it (if they indeed own the surface paint).  

And if they don't cooperate just repaint the door using safety orange 
Rustoleum.  :-)

Seriously, does anyone make aesthetically pleasing colors for painting metal?
Rustoleum comes in bright colors, not in nice colonial blue.  I need to 
repaint my bulkhead door and would like it to match the house(dark brown), 
match the trim(colonial blue) or match the original color.  Can I paint 
the door with any exterior latex or oil after it has been primed?

Brian

There is a new paint (primer?) that is suppose to bind to rust.  I think
rust-oleum makes one version, but this should stop the rust before painting
with the top coat..

bob

    My guess is that any oil-base paint would work okay on top of
    Rustoleum primer.  You might also take a look at autobody finishes.
    I know next to nothing about what's available, but they are
    designed for the same basic problem - protecting metal.  I
    assume all autobody stuff is designed strictly for spray application
    though.

    BE CAREFUL!!
    
    The Rustoleum fish oil primer - for rusty metal - is nasty stuff
    and 'normal' paint may NOT adhere very well.
    
    Suggestion would be to use the Rustoleum color paints.
    
    If you want to use auto stuff - go the whole way with metal prep
    (2 step).
    
    	-Barry-
    

This seems like a reasonable place for a request for help on what I fear
may be rot. 

PROBLEM STATEMENT
                                                                  
On either side of my front door, just above the baseboard molding, I have a
large brown spot and the skim coat is flaking off the wall. The spot is 4-5
inches above the floor and 2-4 inches in from the door frame. 
   
BACKGROUND
   
The house is 3-4 years old. From the outside in, the walls are as follows:

   Insulite siding, plywood, 2x4/insulation, vapor barrier, sheetrock, skimcoat.
   
I have checked the caulking and flashing around the door and added additional
caulking. The threshold looks solid, as does the weather striping.
   
I don't want to cut open the walls unless I absolutely have to, since there is
skimcoating and a vapor barrier to redo. 
                                        
QUESTION                                
Anybody have any ideas what this is, or how to tell what it is?
                                        
Thanks,
VCS                                        
    

	Barry is right, some of the Rustoleum primers are incompatable
	with other finish coats (I used to formulate paints for Rustoleum)
	however the product I am refering to in .9 is relatively new.

	Most primers require that you scrape and sand the surface down to 
	clean bare metal before applying the primer.  This new type of
	rust inhibitor primer is put over the rust and a chemical bonding
	with the rust occurs.  This seems to me a easier way to treat
	rust. 
	
	I have to admit tho, I have not tried this yet but several magazines
	have touted it.

Bob.

    I looking for suggestions for window/door treatments for 2 atrium
    type doors with 2 trapezoidal fixed glass window above.  I have
    decided not to put a window treatment on the trapezoidal windows.
    The windows in the room are casements (2 double casements 4'x4'
    and 1 triple casement 6'x4').  The doors are directly south.  We
    also have a 3 year old boy and am wondering if vertical blinds are
    a wise idea with children!?  
    
    The things that seem like potential problems are blinds/drapes
    blowing everywhere in the summer when the casements are open.  
    The atrium door, one side is fixed and the other is operational.
    It seems like a lot of treatments for doors get in the way of the
    operational door.  
    
    If anyone has any suggestions, pitfalls to avoid, I would appreciate
    them.  Thanks,
    Sharon

    
    
    We have a sunroom with four atrium doors, so I understand your 
    dilemma.  Having researched this a little bit I have found two
    solutions.  First is to mount micro/mini blinds over the glass
    section of each atrium door.  So for one atrium door you would 
    have two blinds.  There are clips you can buy that will allow
    you to clip the bottom of the blind onto the door so that it
    won't move when you open and close the door.  The problem here is
    that you can't open the door all the way because the hardware
    at the top for the two blinds hits.  The other option is to mount
    a draw drape or vertical over the door.  The problem with this
    is that if you want to open the door, you have to open the drape.
    I have found a mail order place for blinds that is the least expensive
    I have found and they have many major brands. I could get the number
    for you if you want.
    
    Moral of the story:  get sliding atrium doors, not ones that have
    a door!
                        

    It ought to be possible to mount the hardware at different heights, so
    that they don't interfere with each other, and then use a valence on
    each to hide the discrepency.  The valence would have to be opaque, to
    hide the fact that the mounting hardware for the valences on the two
    sides are at different heights.  Needless to say, the whole set would
    have to be custom made. 
    
    Obviously there are tradeoffs.  We just put our cat tree in front
    of the fixed door.  The cats love the view outside, it takes no
    extra floor space (the tree had to go somewhere), and it doesn't
    really interfere with the traffic patterns.  We don't care about
    the ability to open the door all the way.
    
       Gary

    .1
    
    Yes, I would be interested in the telephone number/address for the
    discount mini/micro blinds.
    
    Which option did you choose?  Blinds or drape?
    
    Do you know approximately how open the operational door is before
    it hits the blind hardware that you described?  
    
    .2
    
    You suggested a valence to cover the differing locations of mounting
    blinds.  Are you putting the valence directly on the door?  It seems
    like you would have to have a separate valence on each door to do
    what you are suggesting?  Is this what you are thinking of?
    
    Thanks for your suggestions!
    If anyone else has some ideas, please share them!  Thanks,
    
    Sharon

    I tried some of this inhibitor stuff on the rusty wrought-iron railings
    at my last house.  The brand I used was called "Extend".  You wire
    brush off the loose rust, and paint this stuff on.  In an hour or two
    it has combined with the rust to form a black coating, which you can
    then prime and paint. 
    
    This worked fine on my railing -- at least, it was still fine when
    we moved, eighteen months later.  I use the stuff on small patches
    of rust on my car, etc.  I recommend it highly.  Rustoleum is just
    paint, and does as good a job as paint can do -- but if there is
    live rust under the paint, it isn't going to stay there long.
    
    BTW, Extend is pricey if you measure it by the gallon, but it does
    a long way.  The twelve ounce squeeze bottle that I bought for my
    railings is still half full ...
    
    	Andrew
    

        
    	What's the best treatment to seal a newly installed door
    	so that it won't stick in the summer and won't let the cold
    	in during the winter?  Mine is an interior door which seperates
    	a heated entertainment room from a unheated cellar.  It does
    	swell in the summer to the point you have to really pull to
    	open it but now (Oct.) it opens and closes without a problem.
                                           
    	Oil-based stain is what I'd like to use since the door is wood.
    
    	-TB

    Not quite what I asked about...
    
    After reading note 438 on finishing off doors adn how humidity and
    dryness swells and shrinks a door, I want to minimize the drafts
    in the winter and the tight seal in the summer.  Should I stain
    the door now while everything is dry?  Will this stop the door 
    from swelling in the summer?

    Sorry I was so cryptic-I was in a hurry.  You really can't stop
    a door from gaining and losing moisture.  You can slow it down with
    a polyurethane finish (after staining for the color you like), but
    you really should undersize it enough so that it doesn't stick in
    humid weather and then weather strip it to keep out the drafts.
    
    Generally the best time to seal it is during dry weather when moisture
    in the door is at a minimum.
    
    Bob

       I have an old-fashioned door with a keyhole lock. I am having
    trouble finding a new latch mechanism. Anyone have any ideas where
    to find this in the Mass/N.H. area? Thanx.
                                              Denny

    I think Renovator's Supply carries them.  Anybody know their
    address???  

   re:.20    What town are they in?
                                                denny

    The Renovator's Supply
    Renovator's Old Mill
    Millers Falls, MA  01349-1097
    (413) 659-2211

    Other stores:
    
    1624 Beacon St.	Entrance to OSV
    Brookline, MA	Sturbridge, MA
    (617) 739-6088	(508) 347-2115

    Plus stores in Canton CT, Albany and Wappingers Falls NY,
    Flemington and Cherry Hill NJ, Camp Hill PA, and Parkville MD.

       Thanx
                                            Denny

    they also got them at butler lumber in maynard.

    
    
    
    	I have a slight problem where a wall meets an outside door.
    The framers installed a prehung Stanley door into an old wall that
    had real 2x4 measurements. The dry wall was hung up to the door
    and "low and behold" I am a 1/2" to high. I found it out now 
    because I am trying to do the finish. Now I know why it takes so
    long to do the finish work - your are patching everyone elses
    sins. Any ideas as to how to remedy this situation short of breaking
    out the saws all and cutting the door out. The 1/2" varies anywhere
    from 0" to a 1/2". If I remember correctly it took them 3 tries
    to get the door in. I also have a few windows that have the same
    problem - they were put into a real 2x4 wall also so now there
    is a 1/2" difference.
    
    Thanks
    Chuck

FWIW....

  All of you people with the fancy workstations and terminals that have
fractions...

   The rest of us can't see 'em!

Your fraction characters print as nulls.

So we see such wonderful things as    0-"    , etc.

Please spell it out for the rest of the world...

Thanks

Bob

    got the same problem.  I am using 1/2 inch parting beed to build
    out the frame.  when I put the outside trim on I then fill in the
    cracks and sand.  all this then gets painted because it looks like
    sandwitch work if stained.  
    
    Please if anyone has a better method I am all ears.

    I had it too. I simple ripped some 1x6 stock I had laying around
    into 1/2-inch thick 'filler' pieces that could be used to 'build-up'
    the low door casing. Worked/looked real good!
    
    M
    

                |w   |     sash           This is a top view of how my
	        |i f |----                windows are finished. Where the
	        |n r | |                  sheetrock came out flush with the
	        |d a | |                  window frame, I nailed on casing
	        |o m | | <- stop          flush with frame, then ripped-down
	        |w e | |                  door stop covers the frame from
	        |    | |                  the sash runner and slightly
	shim -> XXXXXX |                  overlaps the inside edge of the
	-------------|.'                  casing.
	casing    __'
        _________'            Where the sheetrock comes out farther than the
                              window frame, I shimmed as necessary between
	                      the casing and the frame so that the casing was
	flush against the wall, then covered the frame, shims, and just a bit
	of the inside edge of the casing with slightly wider stop.

	I haven't tried this on a door, but it might also work there.

	BTW, this works well with colonial casing, because the inside edge
	is right-angle; it might be more difficult to get a neat, no-gap
	joint between the casing and the stop with clamshell.
    

    Re: Shimming out the door/window frames
    
    All of the previous shimmming tricks are good and perfectly acceptable
    WHEN the space to fill is reasonably consistant! 

    BUT... the author said that the gap varies from 0" to 1/2" which
    indicates problems with either the door installation and/or the wall
    itself. This problem should be resolved first (rehanging the door
    maybe) and the shimming tricks can be used if needed.
    
    Charly

    On a regular cross buck storm door, there is a sheet metal bottom
    half and the top half usually can alternate between a screen and
    a window.  If the bottom half gets kicked out and bent so bad it
    can't be used, can you get a replacement?  I so, where?
    
    thanks,
    wa

    
    
    I would probably try Sears first, they usually have a little of
    everything.  Then maybe I would try an NHD hardware store that are
    in the Southern N.H. area.  Maybe try a sheet metal place, they
    might be able to cut a piece of metal to fit it.
    
    don
    

    Or put in a piece of Plexiglas..
    
    I did mine for about $25 from a place in Worcester..
    
    gjd
    

    
    I'd buy a new one (or a used one, I got one!).  The color probably
    won't match the existing door and you'll end up painting the whole
    thing.  Sounds like a lot more trouble than just replacing it.
    

    I've got a Stanley Insulated Steel front door. I want to add a deadbolt
    to it.   WHat's the best tool to cut the hole? Is it easy?

    
    mark

    Use a holesaw -- looks like a tin can with saw teeth on the open
    end, fits on an electric drill.
    
    For a steel door, get one made of high speed steel.  The regular
    hole saws (including the ones in kits for mounting doorknobs) are
    a softer steel, and dull almost immediately on a steel door (voice
    of experience...)
    
    You will have to drill through each side of the door separately
    -- just drill through the first side until the center drill of the
    hole saw breaks through, then drill through the other side.
    
    And yes, it is quite easy.
    
    (Side note: the "steel" door is actually a thin sheet of steel over
    a wood and foam core -- it isn't like you are going to have to cut
    through 2" of steel)

    Make sure you use the hole saw that is made for cutting metal, the
    wood one will just get dull.  In the side of my door there was a
    plate that I just poped out and there was a piece of wood that I
    drilled a 1" hole for the dead bolt to get through.  The door was
    already predisigned for a dead bolt so check yours.

Well......

I used the standard, "buy it at Bradley's" el-cheapo, for_wood_only hole saw to
cut a dead bole hole in a "you add it to your existing jamb" Stanley Steel door
and it worked just fine.  I looked at a "for steel" hole saw and  choked at the
price.    I  figured I could dull out more than a few "for wood only" saws  and
still be ahead of the game.  As it turned out, I used the "for wood only"  saw,
on low speed, and it doesn't even look worn;  cheap steel on Stanley, folks.

Dave

    How do I put in an exterior door where there is no door now?
    The construction of the wall is wood frame and stucco.

    Basically, you are opening a wall open, probably a load bearing wall,
    and removing at least 1 stud, so you'll need to install a header and
    jack studs to carry the load. This technique has been discussed before
    in this file, probably under opening a load bearing wall.
    
    Eric

    What is involved in putting a peep hole in a wood solid-core core?
    Is it simply a matter of drilling the correct size hole and stuffing
    it in?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Bob

    Yes, the peephole comes in two pieces that simply screw together inside
    the hole.

    Purchase pre-printed portable peep pushing permit (plastic
    preferred)

    Just a word of caution....
    
    		Drill the hole as straight as possible.  If it's off
    enough, you risk having a peep that doesn't look "perfect".  I goofed,
    and my peep hole looks sloppy.

    Another nit: 
    
          Make sure you use the right size drill bit if you want a neat job 
          That is, don't use a too-small bit and try and enlarge the hole
          to fit. 

    Drill a pilot hole first; I think the peephole I installed took a 5/8"
    hole.

    My wife is 5' 6" and I am 6' 2".  Guess where the peep hole got
    placed on the door.  
    
    Remember that the installer is not the only person who may be using
    the device and the proper height will differ depending on who you
    are talking to.

    A humorous update...
    
    I went to Builder's Square last week to get a hole-saw for the deadbolt
    installation. I decided to ask the 'knowledge broker' available few and
    far between throughout the store. When I finally tracked one down and
    persuaded him to help me look in the drill bit isles rather than the
    isle that has the steel doors, he summoned another helper, they talked
    a few minutes, and then they both concluded that '... they don't carry
    ANYTHING that would even come close since they are ALL installed by
    contractors, by the hundreds...' - I should try a contractor's supply
    house.
    
    Well, I would have believed them, but I happen to glance up to a
    section of the rack previously hidden (I couldn't have missed it! 8-) )
    and noticed dozens of 'Black and Decker, Bi-Metal holesaws' in every
    conceiveable size from 1/2 t0 3 or 4 inches! They even had a complete
    pre-packaged kit with BOTH a holesaw for the handle and a 1" bit for
    the bolt itself! I bought it, it worked great! The bi-metal saw barely
    shows a scratch after I did two doors...
    
    Morale: Deadbolts are easy to install, Knowledge isn't!
    
    Mark

    I considering replacing my front door with a Pre-hung door.  Haven't
    decided between metal or wood yet, but will probably go metal, it
    seems to be cheaper.
    
    I'd like to know how hard this is going to be.  What I THINK I will
    have to do is: take off the storm door, then remove the interior
    molding.  Then I guess I'll see some nails to remove to get the
    old frame out, right?  Is the frame going to be behind the plaster
    wall or will the plaster stop AT the frame?  
    
    If I buy one of these pre-hung doors will they come with any
    installation instruction?  Somerville Lumber has these little pamphlets
    for installing doors, but they mostly talk about building the frame
    yourself.
    
    Any hints, advice would be greatly appreciated.
    
    p.s. I want to go pre-hung vs replacing the door only because the
    door frame is in kinda lousy shape.

    
    I've replaced many a door in my day. There are 2 ways to go.
    
    First you can get a pre-hung replacement unit. This type of unit fits
    inside the existing door frame and is by far the easier to install.
    All you have to do is to remove the old door, all associated hardware
    and smooth out the thresh hold (Most have a lip in them to give
    weatherstripping a place to rest) I used a belt sander and chisel.
    
    Installation was done by simply shimming in the door, installing mega
    screws to hold it in place mounting the hardware and replacing the
    inside moldings. 
    
    I like this way because you don't have to get into any real structural
    work, your existing storm door remains installed and it is faster. On
    the down side, your opening is a few inches smaller and the inside
    molding will probably have to be wider than it is now.
    
    The other method would be to tear out the entire door frame and start
    from the rough opening. This is probably the better way to do the job
    if there is any rot or damage to the existing frame. It's fairly
    straight forward, but can be hard work and frustrating if you're not
    used to using squares, shims etc.. To replace the old door, remove all
    moldings, the old door, all hardward, storm doors and anything else in
    the door frame (door bell buttons, or alarm switches come to mind). Use
    a "Sawzall" aka reciprocatng saw to cut the jamb nails. Knock out any
    shims or wood holding the jamb and just pull it out. If it's really
    wedged in, just cut the jamb into pieces with the sawzall. You will
    probably have to replace the thresh hold as well, so carefully remove
    it. Once your opeing is cleared out, put in the new door, shim it
    square (cedar shingles make great jamb shims) and nail it in place.
    Replace the threshhold, hang the door, install the hardware and you're 
    ready to paint or finish. (Some may paint or finish before it's hung, 
    it's up to you)
    Re-install the storm door and any other things like door bell buttons,
    the moldings and you can have a beer or two. I'd start first thing in
    the morning, this process will take even an experienced carpenter a few
    hours.
    
    Good luck
    
    JMB
    

    Pre hung is great.  Pre molded is not.  I bought a pre molded door
    and could not use the ceder shake shims because the molding was
    in the way.
    
    Live and learn,
    
    Mark

    
    Depending on the door, I would have someone hold a piece of wood
    onto the side of the door you are drilling towards.  This will avoid
    having the hole come through in a splinter-like manner.  Please
    be careful that the piece the other person holds is thicker than
    the drill bit.  I didn't do this, and the hole looked shitty on
    the outside.
    
    drh
    

    If you are using a spade bit, when the point first shows through the
    other side of the door, stop drilling.  Remove the bit from the hole
    and finish drilling from the other side of the door.  The point will
    have made a hole to show you where to start on the reverse side. 
    
    If using the method described in .re -1, then make sure the person
    holding the additional board has their hands well away from the
    area where the bit may come through.  Safety First !!!

    This Fall I plan on replacing our interior Luana doors with six panel
    pine doors. I will only need to replace the doors as the jambs are in
    good shape and are standard residential sizes. Does anyone know of a
    manufacturer/distributor in the Leominster, MA area. Also I saw mention
    of a place in Nashua, NH in the "doors" (1111.32) listings. It was
    called Northeast___???___. Does anyone know what this outfit is called
    and/or have a phone #??
    
    
    Thanks!!!!

    MAKI's  in Lunenburg as well as Webber Lumber.
    Or check your local Yellow Pages!
    
     Good luck

    Hi,
         The place in Nashua that you mention is called Northeast Salvage,
    They are located next to the Stove Barn, on RT 101A in Amherst NH.
    
    They deal in mostly odd lots of things, but you might be lucky,
    and find all of the doors that you need.
    
    The prices are OK.
    
    You might also try Liberty Millwork, in Hudson NH. They are a dealer
    for Morgan brand doors and Stair trimming supplies....they are listed
    in the yellow pages.
    

    Any suggestions for cheap replacements for a short basement door?
    It should be sturdy and not too ugly.  It's 30" wide but only 67" high.
    Somerville Lumber can order a steel one for big bucks (over $400).

    Any building salvage places (besides the one in Providence
    mentioned in .6) that might have this?  I live in Boston and
    work in Nashua.

    re .25:
    
    You might want to call around a bit.  I had the same problem with
    my basement, and got a steel door for about $300 (Stanley) through
    Moores in Acton (Rte 119 just off of 495).
    
    /Dave

    You might try NE Discount, not sure if that is the whole name. 
    They are on 101-A in Amherst, right next to the Stove and Funiture
    Barn.  If your headed out of Nashua it's about a 1/4 mile past
    the Greenhouse Cafe on the left.

    They have a large selction of doors and windows.  At reduced prices.
    You have to look over the stuff to make sure it has no defects but
    most of the stuff is in perfect condition.

    George

    I couldn't find another place for this (looked in 1111.32), so here
    goes.  I'm looking for a place to buy locking doorknobs (doorknobs that
    lock) for interior doors.  I want to find better quality than you find
    in a place like Somerville lumber.  Looking for a place in the
    Maynard/Marlboro area.
    
    Thanks,
    Peter

You simply have to look at the better quality stuff. Somerville carries the 
Quik-set contractor's cheap stuff but they have better quality too like Schlage

    Spags also carries an extensive selection of of passage-sets by
    Dexter and Schlage; both good quality sets.
    

    
    and I think Schlage has various 'levels' within each set,
    so that you can get 'homeowner' quality up to 'architectural' quality.
    
    deb
    

    	My wife and I recently purchased a new home,our first. I,supposed
    handyman,beg all your knowledge as to how does one fasten a curtain
    rod to a metal door?  Does one use adhesive or drill holes and use 
    screws?  Or,is there some magic that this rookie does not know of.
    BTW,the door has a full length window.     Also,is this overwhelmed
    feeling natural?
    
    						thanx
    

    I used sheet metal screws with a small pilot hole to attach brackets
    for a set of mini blinds to a metal door.  I assume the same could be
    used for a curtain rod.
    
    Jim

    
    RE: .0
    
    I'm on my third new home (after swearing twice I would *never* do
    it again), and yes the overwhelming feeling is natural......don't
    worry though, it goes away after awhile.....like usually about the
    same time you sell it.
    
    Key survival tips:
    
    	Nothing you do to the home can't be repaired by someone else,
        providing you have a *deep* pocket.
    
    	Always buy twice the amount of supplies that you need to complete
        a job, that way, when you ruin something the first time, you get
        to do it again.  (The proverbial "cut the board three times trick")
    
    	Repeat this phrase often (mumbling helps) to your spouse when
        He/She comes up with a brilliant brainstorm idea for a way for you
        to spend your "spare time".     "IT CAN'T BE DONE".
    
    	OR:
    	
    	Best of all homeowner tips, do what I've done successfully for
       	years: When the partner who has all the ideas (not me) comes
        up with another task, mess it up so bad that they'll never ask
    again.  WRITE IT DOWN (Important step).   Then, after awhile, you'll
    have an entire notebook of adventures to recite as examples of why
    you shouldn't attempt things like; taking out the trash, cleaning
    the fish tank, stopping the toilet from making a "gurgling sound"
    (i used a 14 oz, stanley hammer) <--- from my notes, btw; or the
    ever popular wall-papering or painting episodes.  (I've also filed
    all pertinant insurance claim receipts.)
    
    Also; Praise the idea-thinker-upper (again, NOT ME).  Tell them
    over and over that it's the best idea you've ever heard of, and
    that she (or he) did such a terrific job of the last project, that
    they should definetly, do this one so it comes out perfect.  (oh
    yea, important point, You can never be perfect, only the inspector
    is perfect...guess who the inspector is?  BTW, they learn that in
    Home Economics in high school.....for those of you who always wondered
    what that was.  Anyway, then provide back-up documentation as to
    why you shouldn't do it.   My wife is the best wall-paperer and
    painter I've ever seen...I mean it, I NEVER criticize any of her
    projects...I can tell even without looking how well they came out.
    
    One more thing; About "Home Economics".....why do they call it that?
    
    Do you think they sit around and learn how to cook and clean and
    sew?  Of course not, they learn all about the "Economics of Running
    a Home"  Have you (or any other male homeowner) ever taken a course
    in knowing how to run a home?  I doubt it.   Scary thought, huh?
    
    happy home-owning,
    
    ed.
    	

    .1:
    
    OK, I'll bite, since I'm in the same boat as the author of the base
    note...
    
    --	These steel doors are usually insulated.  Will breaching the
    	(assumed) seal on the insulation have any effect on its efficiency?
    
    --	If you change your mind about the positioning of the hardware on
    	a wood door (or make a mistake, Heaven forbid!) you can fill the
    	screw holes with wood putty, and stain or paint, and do a
    	reasonable job of hiding things.  What could you do in the same
    	situation if the door is made of metal?
    
    --	Was the metal sufficiently soft that "ordinary" drill bits
    	sufficed, or were specialized bits needed?  (I recall a mistake
    	or two made while adding speakers to my car once...)
    
    Dick

    
    The sheet metal screw idea in .1 is good (I also put up mini blinds
    on my metal door). Use a larger screw than the pilot hole, don't
    over-tighten the screw. Most important, MEASURE CAREFULLY, and place
    the rod on the door (dry runs take a little more time, but save much
    in fixing screwups later) to find the place it would look best, and
    I hope you would consider a bottom rod for the curtain also (amazing
    how curtains like to jam in the door if flowing loose...)
    
    Take your time, measure twice to be sure before you drill. You can
    use standard drill-bits  made for steel (these doors aren't hardened
    steel, but take a little time to get through).
    
    This is my first house too, and I've learned a lot as I go and
    with the invaluable help of this notesfile, friends, and knowledgeable
    family members (I'm one of the last ones to get a house in my family).
    
    Good luck, and enjoy the new house! ;^)
    
    Fred (jack of all trades and master of none)

    a) Drilling a hole in the door will not effectively reduce the
    insulating property of the door.  The insulation in most doors is a
    Styrofoam type insulation.  It creates its own air pockets and does 
    not rely on ideal conditions to perform properly.

    b)It you make a hole you do not want, fill the hole with metal filler,
    sand and paint.  Metal filler comes in a variety of containers, the
    most economical for this case would be the type which comes in a tube
    and you squeeze in to the hole.  Let dry, sand to shape, paint.  Try
    your local hardware store, they will know what you are talking about.

    c)I forgot your question.

    d) As outlined before, drill a pilot hole a tad smaller than your
    screw.  Use a metal cutting sheet metal screw and it will work fine.
    Measure, mark and them measure again.  Hang the curtain up and see if
    the holes line up one more time before you drill.  Worst case if the
    holes are too close, the curtain will hide them.  If the holes are too
    far apart, fill with metal filler, sand, paint.   Most visitors to a
    home do not examine every speck on every surface to see if it is
    supposed to be that way.  Don't lose sleep over one tiny hole above eye
    level on a door.   People will be looking at your curtains or out the
    glass in the door at your backyard not your misplaced hole.

    	I'm considering the possibility of constructing a set of mirrored
    glass sliders for a closet in my home which I will be vacating next
    weekend.  The house has not yet sold, and my realtor suggested that
    the missing closet doors be replaced before I leave, in order to
    improve the saleability (sp?) of the house.  I would purchase the
    doors premade, however they are 94" high, which is not a common
    height to come by out here.  I believe that I am looking at a two
    - three week lead time for doors of this nature.  (I was told that 
    96" doors were special orders, but could be had within two or three 
    days - different story for 94".)  
 
       	Does this sound at all feasible?  I am considering simply using
    two 4x8 sheets of either plywood (sounds better to me) or particle 
    board (just a thought), and double-sided tape to fasten the mirror 
    tiles onto the panel.  Then some nice trim pieces around the edges.  
    Major concerns are as follows:
    
    	- Weight of the completed panels - the mirror tiles I have seen
    	  are not the lightest things in the world, I would estimate
    	  them to weigh between 2 - 4 lbs each, which would make each
    	  4x8 panel end up weighing somewhere between 64 - 128 pounds
    	  each.  Can the track above handle that kind of load?  Could
    	  this be alleviated by utilizing 3 or 4 rollers per panel instead 
    	  of the standard 2? 
   
     	- Possible warpage (plywood) or breakage (particle board) -
    	  are these valid concerns? 
    
    	- What would be the minimum thickness of plywood necessary to
    	  both handle the load, yet still be less prone to warpage?
    
    	Any inputs extremely welcome, no, make that DESPARATELY NEEDED! 
    I can't believe that moving day has crept up to less than two weeks
    away!!!  Thanks in advance....
    
    /Tom
    

    I did what you did once.  I used cheap plain lauan bifolds and had
    them covered with mirrors.
    
    They worked but were clearly too heavy for the pivots which bend and
    strain everytime the door is opened.  Probably failed by now.
    
    Heavy butt hinges are unfortunately the only way to hang heavy doors.
    
    FWIW the mirrored closet doors did make the room look bigger.

    I've been asked to install a deadbolt in a metal faced door.  As a 
    previous reply said, the bolt is easy because the door is wood but 
    what's the best way to cut through the metal faces to install the 
    lock?  Also, How much wood do I have to work with inside at the
    edges?  Should I expect it to be the same as a normal hollow core
    door?
    
    Thanks,
    
    George
    

	I am starting to finish my upstairs.  I am going to re-use a couple
pre-hung interior doors (and probably buy a couple as well) from my downstairs.

Question, for a standard 2'8" wide door how much wider should I make the 
frame.  These pre-hung doors are split-jamb with the molding already in place.

Is there a standard width of the jamb for these types of doors?  That is,
is there a standard amount that I should be framing wider than the door width?

Any hints and or advice is welcome.

Thanks,
	Chris

Use a standard hole saw, though if you want to spring for one of the
harder metal-cutting saws, feel free.  I didn't bother and it worked fine.

As for how much wood there is - it varies among manufacturers.  Some
put a foot-long block in, others just a few inches.  You'll probably
find foam inside when you drill.

				Steve

    Add an inch to the width and the height of the jamb and make your
    opening this size.  The pre-packaged shims sold at Sommerville
    will fit 1/8th inch to 1-1/2 inch openings.  One inch is what
    I've always read.  (See recent/current The Family Handyman for
    all you'd ever need to know on framing for a door opening.)

Thank you very much!

Chris

    I just replaced a wooden exterior door with a Stanly steel door.
    I'd like to cut a mail slot through the door, raising the 
    questions:
    
    1.  Have you cut through a steel door?
    
    2.  What's inside?  Foam?  Wood?
    
    3.  What's the best way to cut it?  I've considered drilling a 
        series of holes and connecting the holes with a small, sharp
        cold chisel.  Then, I'd cut the wood or foam with an appropriate
        saw.  
    
    gw
    

    I have really wrangled with this one but here goes....

    How to cut *round* holes in a door and what's inside is already answered
    in other notes about installing door knobs in steel doors.  1223, 3250,
    3633.  

    *Specifically* how to cut a mail slot is not addressed.  I am not sure
    how significantly different this question is.  I would recommend that
    the author start with these notes for information.  

    Ok, have at it gang.  I can always write lock later.
    
    Bruce [Moderator]

    
    There is foam inside the door, and wood at edges. best bet is to drill
    holes at 4 corners large enough to admit a jigsaw blade. Then play
    connect-the-holes with the jigsaw on one side of the door at a time
    (but when drilling the holes go all the way thru so the slots will
    be in the same place front and back.) I've done a deadbolt lock hole
    this way when my steel-cutting hole saw self-destructed and I needed
    to get the job finished asap. Just take it slow and easy, and mark
    everything out in pencil on the door for consistency.
    
    Fred

hmm.  Is your mail slot rectangular or are the ends semicircular?
So what's the name of the cross section of a hot dog?  Its not an 
ellipse.  Anyway, if I was cutting that shape, I'd use my hole saw
on my drill and drill the two ends out and then connect the holes 
with my jig saw.  I also ruined a hole saw on a door.  On my
second attempt I used cutting oil and went thru much faster without
trashing the saw.  I recommend masking the rest of door with plastic 
though or use a cylindrical shield cut from a bleach bottle or something
to avoid flinging oil all over your door.

-Bob

RE: .0

	Don't chisle it.... You will make unsightly dents in the door. The idea
of connecting the dots with a saw is the way to go.

		Bill

Pardon the irreverence, but why would you want to take a nice, tight,
insulated steel door and put 16 square inch hole through it?
Of course there's a cover, but they are notoriously leaky.

Not to mention all the times the mailman (oops, letter carrier) leaves the
mail sticking halfway through, making the cover useless.

 er, to vent radon?

    I drilled four holes and connected them using a saber saw.  The saw
    want through the steel like butter.   
    
    Why not have a mail slot through the door?  Sure, there is a heat loss,
    but nothing compared with my old wood door.  It is desirable to not
    have mail visible when we go away; the through the door mail takes care
    of that problem.  
    
    gw
    

>                                 ... existing locksets are set in holes
>   with a 2 3/8" setback while the new ones require a 2 3/4" setback from
>   the jamb.

      I've  fitted new locks to existing doors.  You can usually get the
      latch itself in either 2-3/8 or 2-3/4 backset.  See you can  order
      2-3/8 latches for the locksets you now have.  Maybe you'll have to
      check with a locksmith.  
      
      Before  you  do  the above, however, check that the cutout for the
      knob-set itself is the right diameter.  If not, order  entire  new
      locks being sure that they'll fit the existing holes.
      
      Getting  locks  that  fit  the  existing  holes is MUCH easier and
      probably more satisfactory than trying to re-cut the door.

>      I've  fitted new locks to existing doors.  You can usually get the
>      latch itself in either 2-3/8 or 2-3/4 backset.  See you can  order

Check into this FIRST!!!

Infact, the last time I bought locks at Somerville Lumber, I needed
the "other" backset than what came in the pacakge that was on the
shelf. I asked the clerk and he promptly ran out back and exchanged
the backsets for the ones that I needed. It was as simple as that! 

Charly

    And, if all else fails, a visit to your friendly neighborhood
    locksmith will likely turn up the "right" backset mechanism.

    Well, this isn't the same sort of question, but the title reads right.
    
    I'm planning on replacing my existing glass sliders with a door and
    window.  The window will have counter and cabinets below.  Both the
    door and the window will be moved in a year or so when I can afford an
    addition (used elsewhere in the addition).  As far as I can tell, the
    rough opening height is fine for the door, so I shouldn't have to
    insert a new header or anything.  
    
    I would prefer to install a 2'8" door instead of a 3" door, as this
    would give me a spot to relocate some switches so they are not behind
    the door.  However, as this is "temporary" I could live with the poorly
    located switched.  I was wondering if there are any gotcha's with the
    2'8" doors?  I think most kitchen appliances and cabinets would fit
    thru, no?, anything else I might want to bring thru that needs 3'???

Two years ago a installed a Marvin Terrace door between my kitchen and the
deck outside.  All the other doors in the house are aluminum sliders.

The Marvin door is clear wood, with low-E insulated glass with Argon fill
and multiple weather stripping.  It is wonderful; there is no detectable
infiltration even when one stands right by it in the depths of winter.  In
contrast, my sliders have metal frames that freeze up (on the inside) in
the winter, and gaps around the frame through which the wind howls.

The *only* problem that I have with the Marvin door is that it cost over
$900.

I want to replace at least one of the sets of sliders in my house with
another Terrace door; the insulated glass has fogged, and I'm unwilling to
throw good money after bad in fixing it.  I'm also unwilling to spend
another $1000 on another Marvin door, still less to do this for all three
sets of sliders.

Last week I saw a $300 door labelled "Wenco/NorthStar" on sale at Grossman
in Nashua.  It was built out of finger-jointed wood, which made it
unacceptable for my application, where the door would be stained and
varnished, but otherwise looked prety reasonable.  SO now I'm wondering if
I can get a good door that I'llbe happy with for a lot less than I paid for
the Marvin.

Are there any hapy owners of medium-priced terrace doors out there?

    Andrew

    Andrew,
    
    I replaced an aluminum slider with a Crestline swinging patio door
    about 3 years ago, and am quite happy with it.  It is wood and very
    tight, and like you mentioned, there is no noticable air infiltration
    around it.  The whole thing, including lockset and grill inserts was
    about $500.
    
    In our new addition, the contractor installed the Atrium brand patio
    door which is probable priced closer to the Marvin.  The lockset is
    better than on the Crestline, but one "feature" I don't like is the
    threshold.  It's oak with a clear finish that has weathered poorly.  I
    need to sand it and refinish (probably paint).  This door is less than
    two years old.
    
    So yes, I'm happy with my medium priced door.
    
    Bob

    I also have an Atrium brand door. Very happy with it except for
    the weathering of the oak threshold, as -.1 said. Sorry, no experience
    with the moderately priced doors.

My house was built 10 years ago with all WENCO double hung thermal pane windows.
They have all wood construction with sheet metal runners (the tracks the windows
slide up and down in).  All of the windows stick.  Especially after a winter of
disuse.  All of the windows are fogged internally (which is a great excuse for
not cleaning them any more). 

    A 36" door is VERY nice, but you can get by with 32" doors...that's
    all I have in my house, and everything fits through.  I guess you
    might want to measure anything you have that might be suspect. 
    I would tend to keep the 36" door, myself, just because it is so
    much easier to fit things through...but then again, how many times
    are you going to be moving a refrigerator?
    
    My parents have a big chest freezer that won't go through a 32"
    door unless you take the cover hinges off (and maybe the moulding
    on the door frame you're trying to go through, I don't recall) but
    that thing is BIG.  I think nearly everything you buy is designed
    to go through a 32" door.
    
    don't recall

    
    excuse me for questioning the reply in .4 but ......
    
    isn't it 2 inches wider for the rough frame ??  you have the 3/4
    inch jam to fit in on both sides ...  thats 1 1/2 inches right there !
    
    and that only leaves a 1/2 inch play   .....
    
    ace
    

    re .6 re. 4
    
    You're both saying about the same thing.  .4 says to add 1" to the width 
    of the jambs (which is already an additional 1.5" wider than the door). 
    .6 says to add at least 2 inches, but I think you're talking about the
    adding it to the width of the door.  
    
    I've found that adding 2.5 " to the *door* width, or 1" to the *jamb*
    width will allow enough flexibility to compensate for studs that are not
    quite plumb.
    
    Bob

> <<< Note 3345.7 by WJOUSM::MARCHETTI "Mama said there'd be days like this." >>>
>                   -< Six of one, half a dozen of the other >-

   I don't know where you fellows are buying your pre-hung doors, but mine have
always had a 5/8" casing, not 3/4".

Ross

    I have a similar question as that in the base note.
    
    I want to install aluminum sliders on my porch, which has a concrete
    floor.  There is not sill plate to attach it to (just the concrete pad
    that was poured for the floor of the porch), and I can not put in a
    wood sill plate since that would change the rough opening to a point
    where the sliders would not fit.
    
    Also, I don't think I can use lag bolts with anchors since the bolts
    will intefere with the doors such that they couldn't slide along the
    track.
    
    Any ideas on how I might secure the bottom track of a sliding door
    directly to the concrete slab??
    
    Thanks
    
    David

    How about a power gun which uses "bullets" and shoots a nail into
    concrete.  Basically it is a 22 long round with no projectile. 
    You load a nail into the gun, press the gun to the material to be
    secured, fire the round and the force of the blast forces the nail
    into the concrete.  The rounds come with differing amounts of force
    depending on what size nail you are driving and into what you are
    driving it.
    
    The nail head would still stick up a little but a lot less than
    a bolt.
    

    Since you need SOME amount of space between the door and the
    casing, if you have 5/8" plus 1/8" gap (seems pretty common
    on all my pre-hung doors), that comes pretty close to 3/4".
    So, either 1" greater than casing to casing, or 2-1/2" greater
    than the door width is equivalent.

    I'd suggest Star (brand) "Tampins" (or maybe it's "Tamp-ins"). 
    They are tapped metal inserts surrounded by lead sleeves.
    They come in different diameters.  I think you can buy a size
    small enough to take, say, 10-24 flat head stove bolts.  You'd
    drill holes in the concrete large enough to take the Tampins,
    seat them with a special tool that you hammer on to expand the
    lead shield, then use the stove bolts to screw down the sill.
    
    		     threaded insert
    		     V
    		+-++  ++-+
    		| |+  +| |
		| |+  +| |<-- lead sleeve
		| |+  +| |
    		| /____\ |
    		+--------+
    
    The only trick will be dilling the holes in the contrete just where
    you want them to match the holes in the sill. I find that starting
    off with a very small masonary drill helps; then go to the final
    size you need.
    

    re:  .5
    
    I have two problems with using the remington gun to secure the track to
    the concrete slab.  I'm concerned that the impact would bend the
    aluminum frame of the sliding doors (i.e., the track)..  Also, since I
    am working at the edge of a slab, I worry that the concrete will crack
    and break away.
    
    re: .6
    
    Will the heads of the stove bolts interfere with the sliding of the
    door?  or is there such a bolt that will seat flat like a wood screw?
    
    Thanks
    
    David
    

    re: .7
    I assume there are countersunk holes in the aluminum sill.  You
    can get flat head stove bolts, for countersunk holes.  Actually,
    I guess the smallest stove bolt is 1/4-20.  Anything smaller
    (like a 10-24) would be a "machine screw", also available with 
    flat heads for countersunk holes.  I'm not sure what sizes the 
    Tampins come in or what size hole are in the sill, but I expect
    you can find a combination that will work.

    Speaking of wood patio doors......I have an Atrium brand with an oak
    threshold. As stated in a previous reply, this is one feature that I 
    do not like. The threshold needs to be done over again. The door is 
    4 years old and I refinished it 2 years ago with a Marine type varnish.
    I would like to get a finish that would last longer than 2 years.
    
    The door gets full sun all day untill about 2pm. During the winter the
    door gets no traffic at all, and during the summer it gets some but
    not a heck of a lot, as we encourage the kids to come in through the
    garage or front door.
    
    I am contemplating using a deck paint this time.   Pros..Cons?
    
    Steve 

I need some advice on how to replace some windows from my front
door without destroying it.  It's your basic solid wood 4 panel door
that has 3 square windows across the top.  The glass is held in
with molding that was mitred at the corners and then stapled in.
What's the best way to remove this molding to get at the glass?

Thanks,
John

    This is the way I have accomplished this without gouging the wood or
    damaging the molding.
    
    Carefully work a flexible bladed putty knife under the molding (choose
    a point as far away from any fasteners as possible).  Then rock 
    (don't pry) the blade from side to side to lift the molding from the door.
    Move the putty knife to another section and repeat.  
    
    Jim

    I used a standard (but cheap) hole saw .... suffice it to say there
    weren't many teeth left when I was done ... you gets whatcha pay fer!
    
    Stuart

    For lack of a better note....
    
    I plan on refinishing the front door.  The previous owners had painted 
    it a "hubba hubba wild lime green" color.  I stripped off most of that
    and under it found a darker green, kind of a baseball field backstop
    color.  I got most of that off, but here's where the problem is.  I'd
    like to stain the door a natural wood color if possible, but the paint
    is almost embedded in the grain of the wood.  I used Zip-Strip, then 
    steel wool, but it gets real gluey.  Short of letting it dry and
    sanding for a month of Sundays, is there a quicker/easier method to get
    the paint out of the grain?  (I realize I could buy a new door, but I'd
    like to keep this one, if possible.)
    
    Thanx.
    
    

    We had our 100+ year old door with beveled glass window, dipped at a
    furniture stripping shop in Maynard.  It was well worth the money and
    saved time in not having to hand strip *several* layers of lacquer.
    Call around your area.
    
    While the door was sitting outside the shop drying, the owner had
    several people stop by and ask if they could purchase it.  No dice.
    
    					Steve

	Not a problem with rot but the problem is with a side panel,
all be it one made of glass.

	I recently applied undercoating and enamel on all the doors
and baseboards in our home.  The project took a bit long but all
went very well except for the window at the side of thefront door.
The window, which is double paned, now shows moisture between the
panes.  I can't understand how sanding the wood and applying the
undercoating and enamel could cause the problem but the moisture
showing up did coincide with the enamling effort so ...

	Simple drawing follows.

	-----------------------------------------
	|					|
	| ------------------------------------  |
	| |   | |			     |  |
	| | W | |			     |  |
	| | i | |			     |  |
	| | n | |			     |  |
	| | d | |	Metal Door	     |  |
	| | o | |			     |  |
	| | w | |			     |  |
	| |   | |			     |  |
	| |   | |			     |  |
	| |   | |			     |  |
	<					<
	>					>
	<					<
	| |  | |			     |  |
	| |  | |			     |  |
	| ---- -------------------------------  |
	-----------------------------------------

	Well folks, what caused the problem and do you have a
recommended solution?

Doug

    I did a search of the DOOR notes but didn't find anything
    I could use so here goes...
    
    I'm planing on buliding a wood storm door (country door) has
    anyone ever done this before?
    I would like to know how you mounted it to the door jam, and
    what type of hinges and door latches were used?
    
    steve  

    The current Mother Earth News, available at Maynard Paper Store,
    has an article on building doors. Or is this where you got the idea?

    re:.1 
          No it is not where I got the idea...
    Mother Earth News are they for sale at any news stand?
    
    steve
    

    I built 5 when I first moved into my house (it has 7 outside
    doors!).  Totally non-glamorous; I don't know if they are
    what you have in mind or not.  I got some V-groove tongue and groove
    pine in assorted widths to make up just over 32" width (what I
    needed), and ripped off the outside tongue and groove to give 
    square edges on the outside.  The variation in the width of the 
    boards gives a pleasing appearance (I think).  It's two 10", an
    8", and a 6", or something like that.  
    
    The boards are attached together on the back with a cleat screwed
    on across the top and bottom, with a diagonal cleat forming a Z
    screwed on between them.
    
    I put these on 8 years ago and have never taken some of them off
    (who needs 7 doors?). I used a hook and eye on each corner to
    hold the door in the frame, so they are fairly easy to remove if
    need be.  If I were going to hang them with hinges and a latch,
    I'd probably use a couple of T hinges and a thumb latch.
    

    re: .3
    
       Yes that is the type of door I am talking
       about.. Can I mount that to the frame that
       is there without any problems.Thats what 
       I am most interested in.
    
    
    
    steve 

    My frames had an existing rabbet around them to accept (probably)
    a screen door or whatever, so these fit right in.  You'll probably
    find the same to be true of your frame; take a look.  When you build
    the wood storm door, you just have to be sure to leave enough
    space at the ends of the cleats so they won't hit the door frame;
    I made the cleats about 1" shorter on each side than the width of
    the door, as I recall.  Fitting the door into the opening is a
    little tedious if the opening isn't square, but just measure and
    trim carefully and it's not all that bad.  I used a framing square
    to see which way things were leaning, and trimmed accordingly.

    
    re: Thanks
        This weekend I planning to give it a shot!
        I'll let you know how it goes...
    
    
    
    steve

    I want to put a door into an exterior load-bearing wall. In new
    construction a door would be framed by two full length studs that
    run from the top of the shoe to the bottom of the top plate, then
    two jack studs ( I think thats what their called ) run from the deck
    to the bottom of the door header. when putting the door into a existing
    wall, can I put the jack studs on top of the shoe, or must I remove
    that existing small piece of shoe and have the jack studs resting on
    the deck?  The shoe will be removed under the door sill and jambs, but
    it would be a pain to cut out the shoe under the jack stud while
    leaving the sheathing/siding unscathed.
     
    Bob G.
    

    leave the shoe.  frame in the door, then cut the shoe away inside the
    frame when you are ready to install the door.  it's done all the time.
     
    
    tony

The seal between the two panes has been broken.  (either by the flexing of the 
panel during sanding or just coincidence)

Call the maker of the door.  Some have multi-year warranties and will be 
replaced free of charge.  Our builder used Rivco windows and we had a picture
window replaced after about 3 years (5 year warranty).  They gave us a window
because one glass pane had a minute crack in it.  This window is sitting in my 
basement because the crack in the installed window has not leaked and fogged 
the window.  When the installed window leaks I will slap it in.

Stan

    I will be replacing a door from a garage to a den in the Spring 
    and was just looking for a little info ahead of time. Since the
    door should be Firecoded (Right?), do they make wooden doors with
    just one side Metal? Would just one metal side in the garage make a
    differience? I'd like a wooden door on the Den side and don't care
    if it's Metal on the Garage side. Also I'm just guessing that this 
    would be cheaper then getting a Whole wooden fireproof door. 
    
    Just trying to save a buck! ;^)
    
    TN 

When my house was built (moved in in 1985) the builder installed doors between 
the garage and basement and between the garage and family room.  These doors 
are your standard 6 panel door with a full sized plate of what looks like about
1/16 inch galvanized steel on the garage side.  I assume that they can be bought
at the standard door type places.  Oh yeah,  most of that stuff in my house is
RIVCO.  Could be the door is also.

Stan

    Thanks Stan, I guess this just leaves me with comparing prices
    of the fireproofed half metal/wood to the fireproofed "all wood" 
    doors.
    
    Ted

Would it be okay (legal?, safe?) to take a good wood door and simply attach
a piece of sheet metal on one side?

Dave

    >Would it be okay 9legal?, safe?) to take a good wood door and simply
    >attach a piece of sheet metal on one side?
    
    Nope.  We recently had a new firestation built for our community.  The
    installer of the doors trimmed some of the the bottom and the top of
    the door to make the door fit.  In the process of trimming the door, he
    removed the little metal plate which certified the door as a fire
    resistant door.  As much as the fire marshall hated to do it, the door
    was no longer a "legally marked" fire door.  The carpenter asked what
    if he took the plate off the scrap and put it on the door.  Nope. 
    (Heard this story from my captain, the fire marshall, one night while I
    was on duty.)
    
    In the end, the carpenters had to buy all new doors and trim them so
    that the identification plate was not removed.
    
    Is it legal?  I don't believe so.  Is it safe?  Well, I would guess
    that it would offer more protection than a standard wooden door.
    

re .-1

That is just one more example of ignoring the intent of the law and only honoring
the letter of the law.

In my opinion, it was stupid to require new doors in such an obviously safe
situation.  I understand that some cheaters might try to break the law.  And
the label is supposed to certify that the door is safe.  But those doors were
obviously safe.

Ed..

      I don't know the particular class of rating that this type of door
      has, but as far as I know it is just a standard  solid  core  door
      with  a  piece  of sheet metal of the appropriate gage fastened to
      one side.  2-1/2 years ago when  we  build  our  garage  the  door
      supplier send a left-hand door of this type. Problem was we needed
      (and had ordered!)   a  right-hand  door.   When  we  called,  the
      suggestion from the manufacturer was to remove the sheet metal and
      nail it to the  other  side.   So  much  for  special  manufacture
      techniques!   (We  turned  this down because it would have left us
      with nail holes on the house side of  the  door,  which  is  in  a
      finished part of our house.)
      
      So,  does  anyone  know  for  certain if there is anything special
      about the solid core door thats under that sheet of metal?

    I am in the process of purchasing a mobile home to be placed on a
    private lot in Temple, N.H.  The back side of the home will be facing a
    large backyard and I would like to build a deck on that side which will
    be accessed by atrium/slider.  Both the deck and atrium/slider
    questions are addressed elsewhere, but I would like to hear from anyone
    who has opened an exterior wall in a mobile home.  What can I expect?
    What should I watch out for?  The exterior walls are 2x4 construction
    with fiberglas insulation within and polyisocyanurate (sp?) "pinkboard"
    under the sheathing.
    
    Do the comments here about the load-bearing nature of exterior walls
    apply to mobile homes?  Any help or pointers to other mobile home
    related notes would be appreciated.
    
    	Rick
    

    I am building a deck myself and will be turning a window
    into a door.  My house is an old victorian with balloon construction,
    so I have opted to put in one french door (as opposed to the
    six foot jobs).  My house has 9 1/2 foot ceilings so I am
    not sure how to measure for the door.  Do I measure from the
    top of the existing window?  Do i need to tear out the
    wall to find the correct spot to end my measurement.  
    
    I want to make sure the measurement is correct, so am
    getting a bit nervous. 
    
    Where do I start my measurement for the width?  
    I already did a depth measurement which came out to 5 3/4"
    I took the casing off the window and just put my tape measure
    in as far as it would go and then measured out to the wall
    flush. Have to check to see if it has a horsehair plaster wall
    or if we had put in new walls. Forgot since we did insulate
    the house from the inside out and did replace most of the walls.
    
    Any help is really appreciated.
    Carol

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I am trying to remove a doorknob in my recently purchased house but I am not
sure how to remove it:

Most of the locks in my house have 2 screws to the left and right of knob on
the "inside" of door.  This particular lock has a small hole on the shaft on
both inside and outside sides of door with no other clues as to how to remove
it.

I am sure this is something simple, but the obvious solution of lightly tapping
a nail into the hole did not work.

Any solutions are appreciated.

Tom Madden

There is a spring-loaded button which holds the knob in.  Usually  just
poking in with a nail will do it - sometimes you have to rotate the knob to
find the right position.  Try again.

		Steve

The button Steve refers to is on the side of the knob, and is usually about
1/16" wide and 3/8" wide.  It protrudes through a slot in the knob.  Push the
button in and pull the knob off.

That won't entirely do it, though.  You still won't see any screws.  The plate 
that is flush with the door is really a cover plate over the real plate with the
screws.  Look around the edge of the plate, you should find a place that is 
indented, where you can get a screwdriver in there.  Carefully pry it off, and 
you'll get to the real plate with the screws underneath.

Paul

    And adding to .2:
    
    I had several door knobs like this in my house that I was replacing.
    Even after removing the cover plate they don't give you much room to
    get at the screws.  Sometimes there is a hole in the plate that can be
    rotated to line up with the holding screws and in some cases you'll
    have to loosen the screw from the side.  If you have the hole in the 
    plate your removal should be easy.  If there is no hole and you have 
    to get at it from the side then you can use a thin bladed screw driver 
    to back out the screws 180 degrees per turn.  Then once they're
    loosened you can probably use your fingers.
    
    Observation and patience will get them off.
    
    Cheers,
    Paul

I recently just installed two Stanely prehung steel entry doors. The
doors have been painted with a glossy latex paint and are sticking
very badly to the rubber insullation around the inside of the door
frame. 

How can I get the stickiness out of the doors so that they open
easily? 

    re.0
    You might try a silicone lubricant spray on the rubber weather stripping.
    
    
    -j
    

    Re .0
    
    or talcum powder.
    
    PBM
    

I tried powder and also bought a can of silicon spray and they
both work fne. Thanks for the suggestions.

 
    
    --->shim it square (cedar shingles make great jamb shims) 
      
    I've seen it done, I've helped experienced people do it, yet it still
    took me an hour that should probably be on video tape...but I did it!
    :)
    
    
    My biggest problem in installing this pre-hung door with metal
    threshold at the bottom of the bulkhead stairs is this:  The concrete
    slab floor was not level.  It was out of wack by about 1/4 inch from
    one edge of the door frame to the other.
    
    I probably should have stopped, logged into this notes file and asked
    what to do.  However, I just shimmed the low end from below the threshold 
    and nailed it in place.
    
    Now the question:  How should I make this a permanent solution?
     
    Should I shim it as solidly as I can across the entire threshold then
    apply caulk or adhesive?  What would work best?  I'm not worried about
    matching to finished floor level as I most likely use asphalt tile and
    can then add a peice of molding.  My concern is that the shims may
    losen over time.  Now that I think about it maybe the moulding idea
    would hold the shims in place.  ideas? 

	I'm planning to install a pre-hung door in my garage.  The framing
	shouldn't be difficult, but I'm wondering how I can cut the clapboards
	so there will be a nice fit where they will butt the door frame.  I
	don't want this to look like a hack job.

	Circular Saw with a good blade ?

	Router ?

	Hand Saw ?

	Anybody do this successfully?

	George

I'm thinking about replacing all the hollow core "block 'o wood" doors in the
house with those fake raised panel doors.  If it means buying prehung doors,
I won't do it.  However, at the suggestion of an uncle, I'm looking into buying
just the doors.  His comment was "It's easy.  Just trace the hinge and latch
cut outs onto the new door, as well as the overall shape, and cut 'em."  Of 
course, he's a whiz with wood, and I'm not.  

As I understand it, it involves chiseling out a little wood to recess the hinges
and the latch, and drilling holes for the doorknob and latch mechanisms.

My question:  Given that I have few tools.  What tools should I have before I
undertake such a job.  I would be replacing 8 doors all together.  I'm hoping 
this can be done without requiring tools on the order of magnitude of a table 
saw or drill press (If so, I won't do it).

    Hammer, coupla chisels (plus a sharpening stone), electric drill and a
    hole saw, utility knife to trace the outline of the hinges, screwdriver
    ought to do it.
    
    But consider buying the Norm 2000 Laser Mortising Robotic Door Hanger,
    only $19,995 at your local hardware store.  It'll make the job a snap.
    8-)
    
    Bob

    If you can borrow or rent a router it will simplify cutting the
    hinge recesses (especially if you aren't a die-hard woodworker).
    Learning how to use a chisel by trying to create recesses for
    door hinges will probably NOT be your idea of fun, nor will it
    necessarily result in flat, level-bottomed recesses.  Getting
    the hinge recesses right is the key.

    For the hinges use a butt gauge (I think it's called a butt gauge).
    You put it where the hinge is going and bang it with a hammer.It cuts
    into the door,to the proper depth, the outline of the hinge.Then the 
    chiseling is straighforward and easy.
    
    
    Mike

    Where do you find just the doors? 
    JR

hello,
What a coincidence!   I am also going to 

	"replacing all the hollow core "block 'o wood" doors in the
	house." 
                  
Here's where Im at: Have found that you can buy single
doors all over, Grossmans, Builder's Square..etc. This lunch I stopped in
the brand new store in Nashua next to the Pheasant Mall called HOME DEPOT.
They had some good prices but have left me wondering. I priced regular
"christian" doors that are brown wood for $90 at Grossmans. HOME had them
for $57.13. Then, the salesrep asked if I'de be painting or staining. I
said "Painting, white". He said I should buy the doors that already come
chaulky white, they are especially made for those who will paint, not stain.
He said the unfinished wood doors are for people who want a nice grain in
their doors after a stain - so painting over them is a waste.

Get this; they are $25!! He said they are not full wood doors, but
have the 6-panels "pressed on". He said the name they go by is "Masonite".

Is this what you mean by "fake 6- panel doors"? ? They looked and felt the
same as the real christian doors to me; they were just white.

Can somebody advise if these doors are bad news? 25 bucks just seems too
low for a good thing.

Thanks alot!!!					Nancy

    
    
    
    from .10:
    
    If you have the budget to squeeze in a new tool, the best one I've 
    ever seen for cutting in additions into clapboards is that small 
    cordless saw made by Makita.  Most people seem to call it a "Panel
    saw," though I don't think that's their name for it.  I'm not 
    endorsing it in particular, but I don't know that any other company 
    makes anything just like it.
    
    It takes their standard interchangeable battery pack (9.6v?), has
    a small (3.5") circular blade and looks like a miniature circular
    saw with a long handle behind it.
    
    I don't own one, but I've used one to cut in a plate for mounting 
    an exterior light.  It was perfect, but there were only a few 
    clapboard cuts involved.  Someone who has more experience may know 
    whether it could get through an entry door's worth of clapboards 
    on a charge.
    
    	tony

Yep, that's the ones.  They are hollow core doors, but have the look of 6 panel
doors.  They even have a bit of "wood grain finish" embossed into the members
that frame the panels.  They may not sound like a solid door, but they look 
great once they are painted.  And you can't beat the prices (provided I don't
screw up trying to hang them...).

I would very much like to replace my entrance door with a nice wooden 
door.  Could anyone give me an idea on how much upkeep there is compared
to a steel door?  Also, what other disadvantages there are?  

    
    I just replaced my 3 entry doors (I own a 2 family) with new steel
    doors. There are several advantages.
    
    	. The steel doors which are insulated have better insulation then
    	  the standard wood doors.
    	. Wood doors warp.
    	. The steel doors have a nice magnetic seal.
    	. The steel doors are stronger.
    	. Steel doors are recommended/required as a entry door to a garage,
    	  because of their fire-retardent properties.
    	. Steel doors have less maintenance required.
    	. Steel doors are more secure, if installed properly with a good
    	  dead-bolt.
    
    Mike

I forget the exact numbers, but I think wood doors are R-3 to R-5,
and insulated steel doors are R-10 to R-15.  But the magnetic seal
is even more important than the R value for keeping a house warm.

	Enjoy,
	Larry

    
    I've seen fiberglass doors that have the insulating core like a steel
    door , but can be stained to look like a wooden door.  I've got
    steel doors, but if I had to do it over again I'd seriously look
    at the fiberglass doors.
    
    I think one real advantage of a steel door is the magnetic weather-
    stripping (like a refrigerator). I cant think of any real advantages
    for installing a wooden exterior door.

Wood looks better.

    
    re .3
    
    I looked at the fiberglass doors. Very nice, and VERY EXPENSIVE. About
    2 - 3 times the cost of a steel door (by the same company).
    
    re .4
    
    It's a matter of taste. In fact if you paint a wooden door, there is no
    way you can tell the difference between a steel or wooden door just by
    looking at them.
    
    Mike

    re .5
    
    Unless you've allowed the grain to show ...  Although there are
    some steel doors that attempt to fake the grain too!
    
    Stuart

    
     .4 might have been thinking stain rather than paint.
    Both have their advantages and dis's. I prefer steel for the
    tight seal and higher R rating.

    Steel doors look like wood doors about as well as vinyl siding looks
    like cedar siding! :-)
    One thing to be aware of... States that have an "energy code" (such
    as NH) require the entranceway (and windows, wall, etc, etc) to have a
    certain "R" value. A wood door by itself doesn't pass. To make it
    pass, you need a storm door. However, you see many big colonials and
    such that have these hard carved teak oversized front doors, and
    you *know* an inspector isn't going to tell them to put a storm
    door over that!
    
    John

I've been looking a lot at exterior doors lately.  I am not at all impressed
with any of the steel doors I have seen - they all look so tacky.  The
fake wood grain on most of them in no way resembles the real thing.  Also,
steel doors are prone to rusting, no matter how well you keep them painted,
and if you dent one, you'll never get the dent out.

There are some good-looking fiberglass doors; my favorite so far is the
Therma-Tru FiberClassic line.  They seem to be well designed and constructed
and are relatively inexpensive.  If I was going to do without a storm door,
I'd go with this.

However, I prefer the look of real wood, and have settled on the Georgia-Pacific
"Grand Passages" doors.  They are thicker than most wood doors and have
insulated glass.  True, they're not as insulated as steel or fiberglass doors,
but it will look better on my house.  Also, I am going to have a storm door
(the insulated glass version of the Enco Forever Door), and thus I won't have
to worry so much about the insulating properties of the door or the effects
of the weather.  The storm door will allow me to have a screen door in the
summer, which I like.

			Steve

>>    Steel doors look like wood doors about as well as vinyl siding looks
>>    like cedar siding! :-)
    
    A neighbor of mine has 2 doors in the front of his house. One is steel
    and the other is wood. I'll bet you a paycheck you can't tell which one
    is the steel one by looking at them. 8*) 8*)
    
    The stained wooded doors look real nice, but you don't see too many of
    them around anymore. I can't remember the last time I saw one put on a
    new house. The newer vinyl doors can be stained, and look real nice.
    But I could never justify the cost, unless I absolutly had to have the
    stained look.
    
    Mike
    
    

    Re: .10
    
    You won't see them often on new houses because such houses are
    often built as cheaply as possible, no matter how fancy.  Only
    if the person footing the bill knows what they are doing and what
    they want, will premium components and good craftsmanship be
    evident. 
    
    It's true that wood doors are expensive and require extra maintenance.
    For some people, and some house styles, there's really no good
    substitute.
    
    There are, of course, cheap wood doors as well.  With a good one,
    you won't ever mistake it for fiberglass or steel.
    
    			Steve

    re .11
    
    If we're talking about $400k homes, I'll agree with you. But most homes
    $200k and under won't have a big fancy door on them. Most will have a
    standard looking entrance way. With a standard entranceway there is no
    way of telling the differnce between a PAINTED steel door and a wooden
    door. Only when you start getting into the more elaborate (ie 10' high)
    doors will you be able to tell the difference.
    
    Mike

    
    Homeowners in my area that have kilobuck wooden entries do not put
    storm doors in front of them, full view or not. It kinda defeats the
    purpose. If one can afford a $1K-2K door then what's a few bucks a
    month in energy waste?
    
    CdH
    

    Re: .12
    
    You'll be able to tell the difference between a painted steel
    door and the mahogany with brass-camed bevel glass that I'll be
    putting on my (definitely under $200K) house.  If I wanted cheap
    looking, I'd go for a Stanley steel door, in natural rust color.
    
    				Steve

Some people are more concerned about looks... some people are more concerned
about comfort.   Steel doors, painted or otherwise, are not wooden doors.
Wooden doors, regardless of how nice they look, will not insulate or bar entry
to the same degree as a steel door.

You simply have to choose which is right for you (an the fire code in your area).

Bob

    
    
    I also have a question on steel doors.  We have steel doors and we
    heard that you can't use a storm door.  Something about moisture
    building up between them and warping the entrance or door or something
    like that.  I like the idea of being able to use a screen door in the
    summer.  Is this correct that you can't use a storm/screen door?
    
    Peggie

I guess it's all in what you like.

I like steel because they don't warp or worse, shrink and swell with the
seasons. I'd paint the door with a good gloss finish. I think the comments
re fake wood look on steel are correct.

A natural finish on a wooden door looks nice but it won't hold up to
the sun and it's a major pain to refinish.

  re .-1

>    I also have a question on steel doors.  We have steel doors and we
>    heard that you can't use a storm door.  Something about moisture
>    building up between them and warping the entrance or door or something

Of course you can use a storm/screen door. One thing about a steel door -
it doesn't warp.

    re: use of storm door with a steel door.
    
    Although I use a storm door (full view) in conjunction with my steel
    door, I'm a bit concerned about the amount of heat on the steel door
    that the storm door glass magnifies on it during the 2-3 hours of
    direct afternoon sunlight.  I mean, even on the coldest days, if the
    sun's out full strength, you could easily fry an egg on it.  And, the
    color of the door is very light (grey).  My next door neighbor, who's
    steel door is a dark brown, suspects the (styrofoam) insulation in his
    door is possibly melted (disfigured?) since he feels cold spots on the
    interior side (btw, they also have a storm door, if you haven't assumed
    it).
    
    In my case however, where I feel my steel door isn't damaged, I'll
    continue to use my storm door.  It's great for the screened summertime
    ventilation, and in the wintertime, it's nice to "open up" the hallway
    and let some light in on occassion...
    
    John

    We have a steel door with an insulated glass insert in the top half (a
    "nine lite" door).  When we purchased it we were told not to use a
    storm door with it because the plastic that holds the glass insert
    would melt.  However, I wanted a storm door, so we put one in - in the
    last three years it hasn't melted :)
    
    Carol
     

I just had 2 steel doors installed, a basement walk out, and kitcgen entry.  The
warning from the installer was the same on both.  The use of a storm door can 
void the warranty on the door.  The warranty lists as possible damages the 
warping/melting of plastic parts, including window trim sealing gaskets and 
insulating material.  Since my main desire for a storm door was for the screen,
I went ahead and had storm doors installed on both doors.  So far, I've only got
the screen in each (but the first winter is coming).  The last basement door had
a storm door, and I used the storm window every winter.  The result was a severe
blistering and peeling of the paint, and slight warpage of the plastic window 
trim.  I'm hoping that the door will insulate well enough that I won't need to 
use the storm window.

    I'm sure it depends a lot on which direction the door is facing.
    I doubt that you'd have any problem putting a storm door on a
    north-facing door. If the door faced south, however, and got
    direct sun, then you might have a problem.

    
    Steve is correct in .21. The direction the door is facing is going to
    determine if you can put a storm door on or not. The three steel entry
    doors I put on all have storm doors. But 2 face north-east, and the
    other faces north-west. 
    
    Mike

    
    
    
    
    I have a south facing steel door and use a storm door.  During the warm
    months, I keep the screen in place, the rest of the year I keep the
    glass in place.  When we are home during the day, weekends, we usually
    keep the steel door open.  We like the extra daylight and the sun
    coming through the storm door glass adds heat, but the rest of the
    week, both doors are closed. I have not had any problems with paint
    peeling, plastic trim melting, steel warping in the 10 or so years we
    have been doing this.  
    
    Dave
    

A storm door adds very little in terms of insulating value to a steel door,
*especially* if it has glass panels, as most do.  The R value of the storm
door is probably somewhere around .5 if it is mostly glass.

The main thing a storm door accomplishes is to reduce air infiltration
through the doorway -- especially when going in and out.  This is very
valuable if the door opens directly on a heated space.  So a good storm
door needs to fit tightly when it is closed.

I had four storm doors over steel doors on my last house (a two family).
Two were north facing and not a problem.  The east facing door was also
not a problem, because we changed to a screen each spring.  The folks in
the other unit left the glass in the west facing storm door all year.
After 5 years, the plastic grill around the windows was cracked and
shrunk.  I did not notice until it was time to spruce the place up to 
sell it -- but then, I didn't often use that door.

So the moral is, shade the door against direct sun, or else make sure
to put the screen in as soon as the weather gets warm.  Shading the door
(or indeed any window of the house) against direct summer sun is a good
idea in any case.

	Enjoy,
	Larry

    RE: .24
    
    The glass storm door might get you .5, but the dead air space that
    is created would also give you about R 1.   You should never ever
    leave the glass on storm doors during the sunny season if the regular door
    is an insulated door.  The temperature can reach a couple of hundred
    degrees in that space.
    
    -al

    On the door I had problems with, by the way, I put the screen in every
    summer.  The door faced SSE, and in the winter, the leafless trees let
    the sun hit it dead on from early morning till afternoon.  The door got
    hot even in the real cold weather.  
    
    I don't think that windowed storm doors do much for insulation on a
    steel door (at least a relatively newer one with insulation and a
    working seal).  On the other hand, for a wood one, it probably adds a
    little insulation value, but functions more for protection.  I now use
    my storm doors solely for the screens.  In the summer, they keep out
    the mosquitoes, and in the winter, they keep the pets where they
    belong.

    Oh, and one other thing... The warrantee on my door says it is voided
    if I use a darkish color paint.  (They get more specific than that, but
    that is the general idea.)  I guess they really want to cover their
    bottom lines, huh?

    
    RE .27
    
    Darkish color paint???? Who's the manufacturer??? The steel entry doors
    I just installed this summer didn't have any warning about color,
    however they did say to use latex and not oil paint or enamel.
    
    Mike
    

    Mine says that if you use a storm door, that it should be ventilated
    and that the door should not be painted a dark colour.  i.e. no
    storm door -- any colour OK.
    
    A previous house had a steel door with window behind a storm door.
    The Window frame was terribly warped - it faced South, and got
    INCREDIBLY HOT between teh doors.
    
    Stuart

>    	. Steel doors are recommended/required as a entry door to a garage,
>         because of their fire-retardent properties.
      
      I  suppose  this  varies from one location to another, but I don't
      think that this is generally the case.  In my experience the  most
      common  type  of door between house and garage is a wood door with
      sheet metal fastened on the garage side.  I'm almost certain  that
      this passes code in most locations.

re .17:

>A natural finish on a wooden door looks nice but it won't hold up to
>the sun and it's a major pain to refinish.

We have the original wood door on our 1934 house.  The outside is painted,
but the inside is natural.  If we were to replace it with a steel door,
we wouldn't have the beauty of the wood on the inside.  Call me selfish,
but I'd rather have a good-looking interior than a good-looking exterior.

    The front door of our 5-year-old frame house has always been a little
    sticky, but I got around the problem by adjusting the wood strip on the
    threshold. Well, it seems I've now got the strip adjusted as low as it
    will go and the door is still almost impossible to yank open. 
    
    I looked a little closer and the moulding above the door definitely
    seems to bow down a bit. Where the wall above the door meets the
    ceiling, there may be a sag, too.
    
    Am I imagining things?
    
    What else should I look for?
    
    If the door frame is indeed sagging, how do I repair it?
    
    Detail info: house is colonial style, no porch or storm door. There's a
    gutter on the roof edge above the front of the house; no water damage
    visible anywhere. House is sided with vinyl.
    
    Wouldn't you know it: I hoped to put the house on the market next
    month!
    
    Thanks!
    Brian

This is very common, more so in older houses though.  I would not have expected
it in a 5-year-old house unless it was of substandard construction.

This month's Family Handyman has details of how to fix the problem.  You
basically need to re-plumb the door, either by putting shims behind the hinges,
or by moving them so that the door is again plumb.

			Steve

    RE. -1: Thanks for the pointer. I'll look for the magazine in the
    public libe.
    
    Somehow, messing with the hinges doesn't seem like quite what is
    needed. If the top of the door frame isn't square, how will the door
    ever fit right (and tight)?
     
    Though we live in an expensive neighborhood, I'm repeatedly shocked by
    some of the "detail" work of the builder, who somehow has a stellar 
    reputation.
    
    E.g., bathroom fans vented into the attic soffit space so that icicles
    hang from the eves in winter; one ventline for a 2.5 bath house, so
    that the sinks upstairs never drained; 2x4 wall construction with no
    plywood--just sheetrock, rigid foam, and vinyl siding. Crikey!

    
    
    I hope you didnt pay any money for this "finished" house?????

    I've seen this problem in door frames before.  When you pull the
    doorframe totally out, you will usually find that it was inproperly
    framed within.
    
    Below is a rough picture of what I'm talking about...
    
    Proper 		Wrong
    
    -------             |______
    |     |             |     |
    |     |             |     |
    |     |             |     |

    This may sound like a screwball idea, but since I changed curtain
    style a couple times on the old door, and we now have a new door
    which my husband doen't feel like drilling holes in, is it possible
    to use magnets somehow to hold the curtains in place on the metal
    door?  Anyone ever done anything like this?  I wouldn't bother putting
    anything at all over the window, except there are now four huge
    windows next to it which will be covered and it might look bare
    and out of place.
    
    Robin
    

    Robin, it would depend on the type of metal used on the door.  See if a
    refrigerator magnet sticks onto it.

    We have the Stanley steel door and have a valance attached to it with
    magnets. We bought a round rod and hung it off two refrigerator magnets 
    that are enclosed in plastic with hooks on the outside -- I think these 
    are sold for hanging pot holders off the refrigerator; available
    wherever kitchen gadgets are sold. Works great, too.
    
    Mike

    I need to make and install a pet door within a sliding glass door.
    Can anyone give me advise on how to do this and what materials I
    should use?  I know that a pet doors that fit into the track are sold
    at stores, but this one actually needs to be built right into the
    glass.  Any advice would be appreciated.
    
    Regards,
    
    John

    I don't know about the laws where you live, but here in Pa. sliding
    glass doors have to be made our of tempered glass, in fact, any window
    or door (glass) where the pane is within 18" of the floor, MUST be
    tempered.
    
    If your doors are tempered, it cain't be done.  You'd have to have the
    whole sliding glass door custom made, with dog door cut out, then
    tempered.  Major $$$$$ for a dog.
    
    JaKe
    

    The Staywell brand pet doors claim they can be installed in glass
    doors.
    
    			Steve

    Also, I have seen advertised doors built into a panel which is meant
    to be inserted in the slider track and the door closed against it.
    See magazines such as Cat Fancy, etc., for the ads.
    
    			Steve

	    If magnets don't work, and seeing that your husband doesn't
	want to drill holes, you could try epoxy.

					Tim

I think magnets are pretty sure to work -- generally metal doors are steel.
Also, most metal doors come with a magnetic weather seal.  So if you have
one of those, a magnetic curtain holder will work fine -- provided, of
course, that you find the right strength/weight combination for the magnet.

	Enjoy,
	Larry

Is there a space in a wall next to the slider where you can put the pet
door?  You'll probably be able to seal it better in cold weather if it is
in a wall than if it is in a window.

	Luck,
	Larry

    
.9>     If magnets don't work, and seeing that your husband doesn't
.9>	want to drill holes, you could try epoxy.
    
    ...but before you buy any supplies, mention your epoxy-related plans
    to SO. Chances are, the required holes will appear as if by magic.
    

    The drilled holes get covered by the curtain. They are invisible. 
    So why does your husband not want to drill?  

    There's a kind of curtain rod that has a rubber tip on each end (like a
    smaller version of the tips on, say, crutches), and is spring-loaded.
    One of these, carefully positioned so the rubber tips were pressing
    firmly against the sides of the window in our metal door, has satisfied
    the local decorator.
    
    Steve, the objections to holes might be less how they look today than
    to how they'll look at some future date if the curtain rod should ever
    be moved.  I assume that "wood putty" and paint won't suffice on a
    metal door.
    
    Dick

I have four Atrium doors on my house and one of them has started to rot at the
bottom:

     |  |                  |  |
     |  |                  |  |
     |  |                  |  |
     |  +----------xxxxxxx-+  | rot shows where the x's are
     |                        |
     |                        |
     +------------------------+

This is ahppening on only one of the four doors, which were all installed in
the same location (onto a deck) at the same time.

I wrote to Atrium door saying that I believed there was a manufacturing defect
in the door since just this one was rotting. They disagree, and I'll pursue
that, but in the meantime is there any way to halt the rot so I don't lose my
door during the battle, like some liquid or filler I can pour down in there?

Thanks,
Pete

    First you have to remove all the rotten, punky wood.
    
    Minwax makes a "wood hardener" that works well. You simply paint it
    onto the prepared (rot removed) area and it hardens up. Use many coats,
    in fairly rapid succession as per instructions.
    
    You can then use any wood filler to make the repair. I use the Minwax
    2-part stuff.
    
    Edd

There are products on the market that will soak in and harden punky wood so
you don't lose the shape of the original trim,molding,column,cornice, whatever.
When I explored that option I discovered you needed to be either restoring
King Arthur's throne (something completely irreplaceable) or some government
funded restoration project (Money's no object, it grows on taxpayers)

    There's a product called "Get Rot" that's used to repair dry rot on
    boats.  You can pick it up at any marine dealer such as Bliss or E&B.
    Pick up a syringe while you're there to inject the Get Rot.  Drill a
    series of small holes in the rotted area, then inject the mixed get rot
    into them.  Brush over the entire area but be careful because this
    stuff is runny.  Get Rot is a two part epoxy and will harden in short
    order, depending upon how you mix it and the temperature.
    
    Once hardened, you can sand and shape the area and even fill it with
    wood putty if you're so inclined.  However it MUST be painted because
    the repaired area will never take stain again.

    RE: .3
    
    It's called Git Rot, not Get Rot.
    
    -al

Atrium will replace my door for $158 - I think that's fair.

	My husband and I have a house with four doors that need deadbolts.
	I asked my father (since he is a building contractor) if he could 
	do it and he told me that he could do one but wouldn't do all four
	since it is not an easy job.  He told me to get a locksmith.

	Well, the locksmith will charge me about $250 for the four deadbolts
	and rekeying the knob locks so that they all match.  Too expensive
	for us to afford now.

	The notes here say that putting in deadbolts is easy, however
	my father says the opposite.  What's the truth?  

	If we do decide to tackle this on our own, what helpful hints
	can you provide that would minimize the chances of screw ups.
	
	BTW, we have the steel coated doors as well.

	Karen

    It's not the hard but it does require some tools that you may not
    have.  They sell small kits (about $10-$15) containing both the
    hole saw and the drill bit that you need for the door part.  You
    simply take the template that comes with the lock and mark the door.
    Using the hole saw on your drill, you make the big hole where the
    lock unit goes.  Using the flat drill bit you then drill the side
    of the door and door frame where the deadbolt will go.  Most steel
    doors are already mortised for the flat plate of the deadbolt.
    The door frame though isn't so that means you'll need a chisel a mortise.
    This is probably the most tricky part in terms of getting it to look
    good.
    
    -al

    I put a deadbolt in two Stanley doors a different way. I replaced
    the normal lock that fits in the pre-drilled door hole with a deadbolt
    type. The only extra work was to drill the hole in the matching part
    of the door frame deeper, to accept the 1 inch bolt throw.
    
    Check around for the type of deadbolt that looks like a regular 
    door lock.
    
    Marc H.

re:             <<< Note 3250.7 by MICRON::HILDEBRANT "I'm the NRA" >>>

>    Check around for the type of deadbolt that looks like a regular 
>    door lock.
    

	I believe these are Weiserbolts made by Weiser.  You can even
	get them with matched keys (i/e same key opens more than one
	door).  I just put these on two of the doors in my house.  As
	easy at -.1 stated.

	Another vote for the Weiserbolts. They are easy to install and seem to
	me to be just just as secure as a deadbolt.


	-mike

The key-in-knob cylinders that the Weiserbolts use are more vulnerable to
attack than the typical deadbolt cylinder which is protected by a tapered,
rotating sleeve.  Also, having two bolts (from the lockset and the deadbold)
spreads the stress and makes the door more secure.

Be sure that the door frame the bolt goes into is secure.  On steel doors
with steel frames this should not be a problem.

			Steve

We are definately using deadbolts but thanks for the info on the
Weiserbolts.  Our lockset is Schlage so we will get Schlage deadbolts
and have them all keyed the same.

Here is another question:

We plan to buy one Schlage deadbolt, install it, and then buy the other
three if all goes well with the first one.  We will probably get them
at Home Quarters in Shrewsbury and they will key four deadbolts the same
if we buy them at the same time.  However, buying them separate, they 
will not, and also, they will not rekey our locksets to match.  If this 
a big deal to get everything rekeyed to one key?

Karen

    I can never quite understand why anyone would want to key a deadbolt
    the same as the primary lock on a door, especially having learned how 
    standard pin in cylinder locks are built and how relatively easy some can
    be picked, especially with some key patterns.
    
    The idea is to make the door secure.  If the thief can pick one lock,
    he can repeat the process very easily on a second lock.  OK, so it
    means more keys to carry, but that's a small price for the added
    security.
    
    Stuart

    I think it should be (relatively) easy for a locksmith to rekey a 
    Schlage lock.  The cylinder is not hard to take apart, assuming it's
    the kind I've seen.  Just take the locks and the key you want them 
    to use to the locksmith.
    
    Security against picking is an issue, but having them keyed differently
    won't increase the security against picking particularly, will it?  
    If a thief has the skill to pick one lock, he can repeat on a second 
    lock just as easily whether they are keyed alike or not.
    
    If you're worried about an "easy" picking pattern (and I assume the 
    locksmith could tell you), perhaps the thing to do would be to get 
    all four locks rekeyed to something more difficult to pick (but still 
    all the same).
    
    Most thieves aren't that subtle, anyway; they get in by kicking the
    door down.

Re: .11

It is not a big deal at all to get locks rekeyed - any locksmith can handle
this and the cost is about $5 a piece.  It's best if you can bring the
locks in to the locksmith before installation.

Re: .12

You have a point, though most people don't use the knob lockset if they have
a deadbolt.  (But as I found out, it's best to either have a key for the
knob with you or replace it with a no-lock knob, as one can get accidentally
locked out this way.)

			Steve

    Because some cylinders and some key patterns are easier to pick than
    others, having two different key patterns just increases the picking
    difficulty sufficiently to take a little longer, and the burglar's
    biggest enemy is time.
    
    My current front door has a 6 tumbler lock as opposed to the standard
    5 ... trying to pick that extra tumbler makes the job significantly
    more difficult ... and my last one was not standard tumblers at all.
    
    Now granted the majority of burglars do not pick locks, but it is
    really quite easy to pick a lock when you know how.  This is one
    of the reasons locksmiths must be bonded ... 
    
    Stuart

    Well, this is a little late, but I just installed two deadbolts on
    steel cased doors.  It's relatively easy, with a few caviots.
    
    You will need a 1 1/2" bi-metal hole saw to cut through the door face;
    a wood saw will not do the job (and survive).  On the doors I did, I
    was able to use a woodboring 7/8" hole saw for the bolt hole on the
    door's edge, but the cylander holes needed the bi-metal.
    
    Also, depending on how your door was framed, you may also need some long
    screws (more than were provided) for faceplate attachment.
    
    Not including delays caused by external factors (aka a six month old
    boy), they took about twenty minutes each to install.
    
    /greg (who now has about ten different house keys and now plans a visit
    to a locksmith to get at least some of them re-keyed).
    
    

    re -1
    
    ok, so I'm a tool hog {snort} and I like to buy em once and keep em.
    
    Good point though.  Between the arbor and hole saw, bi-metal can run
    you about $12, while a "cheap" wood combo can be had for about $4.
    
    But then again, I suppose if you bought "craftsman", you could just
    keep taking them back and tell them they don't cut ;^)  {I also *hate*
    Sears - as a company that is, I do have some of their tools}.
    
    /greg

    When I put mine in almost 2 years ago I bought what the guy at Aubuchon
    said would go right through the door.  It did for 1 door but the teeth
    were completly burnt off.  I brought the hole saw back with the circle
    of steel that it had cut from the first door and the guy just exchanged
    it for another one saying it _should_ have gone right through.  I did
    the second door and the same thing happened.  I again brought it back
    and guy just gave me back my money and took the hole saw still saying
    it should have gone through.  I didn't really care because I got what I
    needed accomplished and it didn't cost me anything.
    
    Steve

    
    re .19
    
    I don't know about he Aubuchon's you go to, but the one near my house,
    the oldest person working there is 21. Most are about 18. Believe me
    they have no idea what they are talking about. 
    
    Mike

    re. -1
    
    Yes Mike the only thing I ask them is to point me in the right
    direction... I know what I wan't or will decide what to buy!
    They are quite the crew at that Aubuchon...
    
    ;^)
    Jean

    
    Jean,
    
    I will go out of my way to Hammer in Bedford, then to deal with
    Aubuchon's. They usually don't have what I want, and they're on you
    like flypaper when you walk in the door.
    	"May I help you Sir"
    	"Yeh, I need some compression fittings"
    The kid leads me to the screws and nut sections of the store. He was
    really comfused when I told him it had to do with plumbing.
    
    Mike

    Believe it or not the guy at Aubuchon's has been pretty good about
    finding things for me.  Of course I knew what I wanted, but he did know
    where it was in his own store.  ;-)
    
    Steve

I had a Atrium door put in to my new house and the striker on the lockset
is scratching up either the door jam or door frame before it hits the 
stikeplate when the door is being shut. I have to turn the door knob to 
clear the molding and then release the door knob after the door is shut 
to prevent the damage to occur. the Atrium door is recessed out about
2 inches so it puts a scratch about that length leading to the striker plate.

Has anybody seen this problem before and how would I go about fixing it?
I am planing to get the builder to look at it but I don't want him to just
to put a piece of metal there an say it's fix.


Dave

We have the same problem with most of our exterior doors (including
two Atrium doors) primarily because of the 2x6 construction makes for
wider frames.

We had a locksmith re-key the locks when we bought the house and he 
said to just get an extending strike plate.  The longer "striker part" 
covers the wider door frame...

Dan

Funny you should mention it. My Atrium door is doing the same! I also have 2X6
construction. I had one person tell me that it could have been framed
differently to avoid this. I am going to add either a brass plate or
extended striker plate as mentioned.

-Matt

    
    I'm looking for opinions on something and would be very interested 
    in what you folks have to say.
    
    We are replacing the hollow luaun doors in our house with solid 
    6-panel pine doors.  I'd like to not paint the new doors and just 
    poly them with a semi-gloss.  Is this appropriate even though the
    the door and window trim, which we aren't replacing, is painted 
    white?  Or is it better to have the doors match the trim (i.e paint
    the doors the same color as the trim)?  I realize this is probably 
    a matter of preference, but I'd like to hear some opinions or comments
    on having natural doors with white trim.
    
    The house is a colonial.  

    I have stained doors in my house, and the trim is painted brown. I
    don't think it matters, as long as it doesn't clash or anything. 
    What you want to do sounds fine to me. Just my .02 cents.
    
    cd
    

      I  grew  up  in  a  colonial  style  home.   It  has white trim --
      baseboard, casings, door jambs, etc.  The  doors  themselves  were
      stained.   I  believe  that  this  is  common  in  colonial homes,
      especially the in the more formal or public  areas  of  well-to-do
      homes.
      
      If  this is a pre-hung door with a new frame, I'd suggest painting
      the new frame to match the existing casing. Stain the door to your
      taste. I think it'll look good -- but then, like I said, I grew up
      with this....

  True colonials, and those built through the Greek Revival, usually had
the doors painted to match the rest of the woodwork. Occasionally, the
panels were grained (to resemble an exotic wood), sponge decorated, or
marbleized, while the frame (stiles and rails) matched the predominant
color.

  Sometimes the woodwork was polychromed to pick out details. You'll see
this on mantels, most often on the carvings. I was surprised to find out
that the baseboards in my house were originally painted a color different
from the wainscoting - proof enough that there was some degree of personal
expression back then.

  Patrick

We recently did our walls ivory with a light blue on the trim.  We decided to 
paint the doors (luan hollow core) to match the walls, rather than the trim, to
avoid the "too blue" look.  It looks great.  It shows that you don't have to go 
with traditional schemes all the time.  I'd try the poly first, and if you don't
like it after a few months, paint the doors. It's easier than doing it the other 
way around!

					-JP

    Do what *you* like.  Who cares what "they" think?  It's YOUR house!
    YOU live there - nobody else!  It becomes an issue only if you live
    in an old house and you are interested in authenticity of the period.
    
    Personally, I like what you are proposing.  We have something similar 
    in the dining room of our hose.  The trim is very, very light green 
    and the doors are stained.  it looks nice (at least I think so).  In 
    other parts of the house, we're thinking of having white walls and doors, 
    with the trim painted in a color.  
    
    

    I just finished last weekend putting up French Doors (Brass-lite by
    WING) between my Dining Room and Music Room and did basically what .0
    wants to do, Doors and outside trim are "Natural" poly and the inside
    door frame trim is stained..... 

    	My Interior decorator (the Wife!) has seen this in decorating 
    magazines and requested this for her doors. It does look very nice, but 
    some people may not realize what you have done and ask: "I see you are 
    almost finished with your project" - then you have to explain, "Yes, I 
    am finished - the doors are "Natural"...

    	They do Look Great! 

    
    Thanks for all the comments.
    
    I have a couple of other questions regarding the 6-panel pine doors.
    
    What is a good estimate of labor for a carpenter to replace a luan with
    the 6-panel pine (i.e. I supply the slab and lockset)?
    
    I am also having the cielings replastered.  Should the new doors be
    installed before or after the plaster work?  I would think it would be
    best to install the doors after the plaster work to eliminate any
    possibility of damage to the doors and to keep them clean for when it
    comes time to poly them.

   RE: .10
   
   I'm about to install a steel covered door on my basement bulkhead stair too.
   
   Did you ever get the threshold shim issue worked out?
   I'm still wondering how to attach the rough framework to the concrete?
   	should I use masonary nails, or drill/anchor/bolt, or Liquid Nails
   	(or some combination of above)
   
   Any other pointers would be appreciated.
   This project is a little more difficult as there is a Hot Air duct about
   35" into the basement, which is making me choose a smaller width door
   than I'd like.  I will probably hinge the filler panel, just in case.
   
   	Dave.
   

   Well, I have a 43" wide raw concrete opening.  No existing wood in the
   doorway.  So I get to do all the initial framing too.
   
   I had though of just dropping the pre-hung threshold straight onto the
   concrete, but now you have me wondering about how plumb that would be. 
   Also, I do get some water there, (hopefully I've fixed that too... but
   we'll see) so the less wood on the floor, the better.  I plan on making
   anything that touches the concrete PT wood.   I have no immediate plans
   to finish the basement floor with anything other than Thompsons Water
   Seal.
   
   	Dave.

>						I have no immediate plans
>   to finish the basement floor with anything other than Thompsons Water
>   Seal.

To keep water in, or to keep water out?   

Dan

Have anybody seen any extended straker plate? I have been looking at all the
hardware store and can not find any.

Dave

There's one called "Adjust-a-strike" (I think), which is made by the company
which makes the various door reinforcers and is usually sold along with them.
It can adjust in and out over at least a half-inch range.

			Steve

    .15:
    
    I think that if the threshold is more than a bit off of level, you'll
    have gaps at the bottom (which adjustable thresholds can accomodate)
    and at the top (you're in trouble here).  Suggest you check the floor
    in the opening for level and shim appropriately.
    
    This may well may make it more difficult to apply caulking under the
    threshold, but do be sure to do that to prevent drafts.
    
    My cellar floor has no standing water, but a dehumidifier does wring
    water out of the air, so I assume that some moisture is entering. 
    Using PT seems prudent.  (I laid PT 1x4 sleepers, with foam insulation
    between them;  then sheet plastic, and then 3/4" underlayment.
    
    Dick

       Well folks, 5 months have gone by since I first entered the reply
       in .5 asking about installing deadbolts.  Finally, we bought four
       deadbolts and plan to install them soon.  Our doors are the steel
       covered type.

       We've borrowed a drill and have a bunch of regular drill bits, and
       the 7/8" spade bit that we need.  We also need a hole saw (not
       sure the size but think it is 1-1/2").  I've seen hole saws so
       I know what they look like but I'm a little confused.  Do we need
       some other attachment for the drill so that we can use the hole
       saw?  I want to buy the hole saw bit I need but I'm not sure if
       I need to get something else.

       Also, I'm pretty sure that with 4 steel coated doors to do, we
       should buy a bimetal hole saw bit, rather than a wood one (a wood
       one might do one door, but four?).

       Karen

    When I bought my first hole saw, there *was* some doo-hickey I also
    had to purchase in order to use it on my drill. (For the life of me
    I can't remember what it is, or what it does, but I can see it plain
    as day in my tool box!!!)
    
    Anyhow, it was cheap, easy to find, and I only needed one.
    
    Edd

    The doo-hickey is called a "mandrel".  It comes with a pilot bit
    and whatever hardware is used to attach the mandrel to the hole
    saw (usually the saw has a hole in the center, the mandrel goes
    through the hole, and a large nut holds the two together).

    That's it...
    
    Edd

Gee, if you're only using it once, how about buying the el-cheap and tossing it
out when you're done with the door.  I inadvertantly did that with the first
steel door I tapped.  I got through the door but there wasn't much left you
could recognize as teeth.  I pretty much melted through the last bit :-(
On the second one I used cutting oil (masked off the area surrounding so I
wouldn't get oil all over everything) and it worked like a champ and didn't
wear all the teeth off the hole cutter. :-)

-Bob

That's rather pricey, even for bimetal.  But I have found that the cheap
mandrels are not well assembled and the chuck shaft slips.  I ended up
buying a Milwaukee mandrell and it has been fine.

I don't think you really need bimetal for a one-shot; the steel on those
doors is rather soft.

				Steve

     Well, it'actually four shots (doors) which is why I thought that
     I should use bimetal.  The price I found was at HQ.... Grossmans
     was even more!  I'll look around for something cheaper.  A friend
     offered to let me borrow his mandrel ... which is not for bimetal
     bits (would it work with bimetal bits?).

     Karen

    re: .31
    The type of hole saw (bimetal or not) shouldn't matter re: the
    mandrel; the important thing is going to be the brand.  The brand
    of the mandrel and the brand of the hole saw will almost certainly
    have to match - at least, that's my guess.  I doubt that they're
    standardized.  (Anybody know for sure?)
    
    $12 + $7 divided over 4 doors isn't a whole lot, I wouldn't think.
    < $5 per door.  It would probably cost you $30/door for a locksmith
    to come out and do it.  At least, a whole lot more than $19!
    

    Aw, Karen, just go drop the $19 and buy 'em. Even if you NEVER have to
    install another dead-bolt, you absolutely, positively, without doubt,
    mark my words, this is gospel, WILL have to use a mandrel and hole saw
    again for *something*. and you'll have at least one of the two.
    
    <$5 a lock is a bargain...
    
    Edd

The mandrels aren't really standardized, and even within a brand there are
different models for different size ranges of hole saws.

			Steve

    About two months ago, we installed a new mahogany front door.  We
    were very careful about following all manufacturer's instructions in
    finishing it; first we used a sanding sealer (water based) and let
    it dry for 24 hours (manufacturer recommeneded 18) before applying the
    first coat of Minwax Helmsman Spar Urethane varnish.  Each side of
    the door (as well as the ends and edges) got three coats of varnish,
    with ample time to dry and steel-wooling/sanding between coats.  When
    done, it was beautiful.  (Though we were beginning to doubt our
    sanity at going for a wood door rather than metal or fiberglass, but
    we didn't like the looks of any of them.)
    
    Everything was fine until a week or so after I put the glass pane in
    the storm door.  The outside temperature was dropping, but the door
    faces south so it still gets some sun (not a lot, though, there's
    quite a bit of shade.)  What we started seeing was that the finish
    was cracking on the lower half of the door - primarily at the edges
    between the "raised panels" and the nailed-on moulding, but also
    there seemed to be some of what looked like bubbling on some of the
    moulding pieces.
    
    I'm aware that one doesn't want a lot of heat to build up against
    a wood door, but even in the strongest sun, the door was barely warm.
    But is the finish failing because of the heat buildup?  What else
    could it be? 
    
    					Steve

What did the manufacturer say about using a storm door?  I know that some
metal door manufacturers say don't use a storm door.

Ed..

    Hmmm... My observation about marine spar varnish is that it is
    meant for spars, not doors or decks.
    
    Speaking from painful experience (try removing the stuff!)
    
    Margaret.

    
    Pretty unusual for mahogany with that degree of care in the finish
    application.  if it's mainly around the milling, one possibility is
    that some oil got on to the surfaces.
    
    Another thought is condensation in the space between the storm door and
    the wood door is causing the door expand a bit at the joints.   (Either
    than or the moisture content of the door was too high when it was first
    painted.)  Is the damaged varnish a little cloudy or semi-transparent?
    
    regards,
    
    Colin
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

The finishing instructions we got didn't say anything about a storm door, 
though the manufacturer's rep we spoke with told us that if we put a storm
door on, we should allow for some air to circulate, and we've tried to do
that (though obviously if we allowed too much, it would negate much of the
purpose of a storm door.)  I'm prepared to accept that the storm door is
responsible in part, but it doesn't seem to me that I should be seeing this
sort of damage this soon.

The damaged varnish doesn't seem cloudy, but I will have to take a closer look.
The different rate of expansion for the door slab and the nailed on trim
undoubtedly accounts for some of the cracking along the joints (unfortunately,
that means that the door is no longer sealed against moisture), but the finish
lifting on the millwork bothers me.  My wife pointed out that the places where
it is lifting are "different color" than the other parts of the wood.

			Steve

	Hi folks,

	My husband and I installed our 4 deadbolts this weekend.  I bought the 
	hole bit and arbor at Spags for under $16 including tax.... the brand
	was Lenox.  It held up just fine though all four doors.

	Out of the four doors, only one bolt slides into the strike box
	perfectly.  The other three, you have to push or pull the door
	to get it to lock right.  Accuracy is so important installing these
	suckers!  

	I'm so glad its done and we saved $105  (I found a guy who would
	install all four for $120 but since we bought the tool, it comes
	to $105!  Now we can afford to buy our chimney cleaning equipment!

	Thanks for all the tips!

	Karen

Gee, don't you have some leeway on the hole the bolt strikes?  Like don't 
the brass covers with the rectangular hole allow you to position them a little
bit in any direction so you can adjust it so it grabs without fiddling with the
door?  I thought when I did mine, I was able to play with that and get them
to line up.  Its been a while though, maybe I'm dreaming.

    Thanks to the storm we just had, I noticed that I have gap under my
    door.  I have an adjustable threshold (wood threshold with 4 large
    screws that can be turned to raise/lower the threshold).  My problem
    is that one of the screws does not work, ie. it turns but nothing
    happens.  I need to raise this section, as the wind was whistling
    in on Friday/Saturday.  Can these screws be replaced, or do I need
    to replace the threshold ??
    
    
    Steve

    Old topic revisited with a twist.  What is the rule of thumb when you
    want to paint a door that has previously been stained inside?  
    What type paint?  Is sanding needed?  This is an atrium door.
    Thanks, Steve  

    re: .4
    Possibly relevant to what you're doing...
    I recently painted over some wood stained with Minwax.  The results
    were not all that great.  I had to use BIN white pigmented shellac
    as a primer to get an acceptable coating (paint applied directly
    sort of beaded up, like I was painting over...wax), and even after
    using the BIN, the paint and primer chips off easily, back to the 
    stained surface.  This is after scrubbing with TSP, wiping down with
    mineral spirits, etc.  Sanding helped in direct proportion to how
    much I did.
    So, if the stain you're talking about is Minwax, good luck!
    
    (Does anybody know the "right" way to paint over Minwax???)

Re .5

	For another data point: I recently painted over two sets of
	pine bookshelves that had been stained with a Minwax product.
	I sanded some and primed with an oil based primer. Finish
	coats were oil based enamel. No problem with bleed through
	after 8 months.

re: .5
      
      I agree with .6.
      
      a) Sand well.  Just about nothing will stick very will on a glossy
      surface.
      
      b)  I  also  agree  that an oil base primer is a better choice for
      this application.  For the finish coat, oil  base  or  water  base
      should do the job.

    I tried an oil-based primer.  It beaded up on the surface.
    The BIN is the only thing I found that went on decently over 
    the Minwaz.

    Well, not exactly the same topic, but I hate to post a new note
    and run the risk of being yelled at! :-)

    Anyway, I purchased a solid brass door knocker (antique) with two screw
    holes on the back.  I would like to mount this on a steel entry door. 
    The problem is, I would prefer NOT to put screws through the door for
    practical and aesthetic reasons.  There are already holes in the front
    of the door from the previous owner's door knocker. The holes don't go 
    through the door, but I can't figure out how they attached it.  Anyone 
    have any thoughts?  (No, I can't ask the previous owner)
    
    Thanks for any suggestions,
    
    TK

<    practical and aesthetic reasons.  There are already holes in the front
<    of the door from the previous owner's door knocker. The holes don't go 
<    through the door, but I can't figure out how they attached it.  Anyone 
<    have any thoughts?  (No, I can't ask the previous owner)
<    

	How big are the holes from the old door knocker?  2 things come to
mind, 1 is sheet metals screws, and the other is a butterfly bolt.  The sheet
metal screw hole would be very small (probably filled with paint by now), the
butterfly bolt holes would be about 3/8" or so (maybe 1/4" if they used real
small ones.)

Al

    
    Well, seeing you dont want to mess up your door how about this...
    
    If the fixture dosnt weight a ton, get sheet of magnetic backed
    paper (stiff that stickon signs are made of), glue it to the
    back of you knocker and stick it to the door.
    
    JD

    Re: -.2
    
    Well, I took a look at the old holes.  There are three, but I think
    only two were from the door knocker.  The upper one looks like a small
    nail hole but the lower one is 3/8".  
    
    Re: -.1
    
    I doubt that an adhesive would work, since it is solid brass.
    {Guess if all else fails, I can use it for self-defense! :-)}
    
    Thanks,
    
    TK

    Are the holes threaded?  Can you screw pieces of small-diameter
    threaded rod into the door, then attach the knocker with nuts?

    
    Whatever you do, you're going to have to screw something to the door
    and toggle bolts or butterfly bolts will probably do it - even an
    expanding drywall fastener would probably hold. You also want to use
    rustproof fastenings or you may get streaks of rust down the front of
    the door.  (I wouldn't worry about patching these later - car dent
    filler works fine.)
    
    I'd look around for a brass slide plate - low-profile interlocking
    brass plates used in cabinet making for sliding lids.  Bolt one plate
    to the door and the other to the back of the knocker and slide it in
    place.  Hold it with a couple of dabs of silicone, which will clean of
    easily when you want to remove it.
    
    An alternative would be to use a brass pin-hinge, if there's enough
    room to hide it.  The problem with this is it usually creates a
    gap between the knocker and the door which you have to fill somehow.
    (make a gasket using the knocker as a template, or use clear silicone
    caulk and pare it away with a hobby knife)
    
    Finally, you could always mount the knocker on a bevelled hardwood
    plate, paint it to match the door and mount the plate with brass screws
    at each corner.  I'd go for this because the metal on these doors is
    pretty thin and the wood will help spread the load.  Especially if it;s
    to be functional!
    
    Regards,
    
    Colin        

I would suggest an epoxy made for bonding metal.  I just put up some brass
house numbers on my metal mail box using this.  Fast, easy, cheap, works.

-Mike

    Thanks for all the suggestions.  I'm not sure what method I'll use yet,
    but I certainly have some fresh ideas.
    
    TK

     I have a problem with a Stanley steel door I installed a few years ago.
   The metal is coming apart from the doors' core. Assuming I could glue it
  back together, what glue should I use?

    Thanks,

     Bob

    re-1:
    
    Doesn't Stanley offer a 5 yr warranty on thier Doors. ?? My neighbor
    had 2 doors (slab only-we removed the glass) replaced for free due to
    rust condition. You might want to contact your supplier.
    
    Marty

   Good idea but out of warranty.........

    Call Stanley Works in New Britain, CT and ask for their suggestions
    on making this repair.

    justme....jacqui

    On a similar vein......our 9-lite steel door from Grossman's 
    got a little to close to a wood-stove, and the "9-lite" plastic
    insert (that divides the glass pane into the 9 units) became 
    warped.  The door and glass are fine.  I stopped into Grossman's
    for the replacement insert and was told it came as a complete
    unit, glass and insert, @ $60.  I don't need the glass, all I 
    need is a replacement insert, either 9-lite or diamond, since it's
    a standard size.  Any ideas for just the insert?
    
     

        I have a exterior, fir  raised  panel door with a 1/4" crack.  Is
        there a lasting repair for this  (i.e.    a repair that will last
        more than 6 months)?
        
                                                thanks
                                                        wayne

        

    I took a pile of sawdust and mixed it with  Elmer's glue and made a
    thick paste out of the mess. Then, I jammed as much of it as I could
    through the crack until it was overflowing on both sides of the door.
    After it dried, I sanded it down to be flush with the panel on both
    sides. In my case, several coats of stain on the inside finished the
    job, exterior paint on the outside made it complete. I moved 4 years
    after the fix and the crack had never reappeared.

    
      Minwax sells what they call 'high performance wood putty' or some
    such thing. It is a lot like bondo for cars. I've used it in a few
    places and it works pretty well. If the crack you have goes all the way
    through the wood, I would try this, if it doesn't, I'd say the repair
    .1 mentioned should be fine.
    
    				Kenny

    Were's the crack located? Do you know what caused it? And how is the
    door finished? Answers to these questions would help in  arriving  at a
    more permanent fix.

    /Jim

I'm cross-posting my note from CANINE.  I am in need of some tips on installing
a pet door in the side of a house.  Thanks for any help you can provide.



            <<< DOGS::SYS$SYSDEVICE:[NOTES$LIBRARY]CANINE.NOTE;1 >>> 
================================================================================
Note 1175.7              Pet door recommendations needed                 7 of
12 NECSC::EINES "CSC/MA SNA product support"            17 lines  28-OCT-1993
16:45 -< Major renovations! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin,
    
    	How did you dig a hole in the foundation?  That sounds even more of
    a project that what I'm contemplating.  The house I'm moving into is a
    multi-level (i.e. no basement), and my idea is to cut a hole in the
    walls (interior and exterior) right next to the door that leads to the
    deck.  So Waldo could hang out on the deck during the day if he wanted
    to.  Obviously, I would need to put a door to the stairs that lead off
    the deck.  I would also need to put in a ramp leading to the yard,
    where I would need to fence in an area for him.  What a project!
    
    	BTW, Johnson Pet Doors seem to be the most expensive.  Does anyone
    feel that the type of door makes a difference?  I'm a little concerned
    about having just a piece of plastic to keep out the cold.
    
    
    							Fred

Hi,

        I like the  four  years  part.    I'll  give it a try and let you
        know!!
        
                                                thanks
                                                        wayne

    I installed a Johnson pet door into the wall next to my slider.  The
    double vinyl flap and magnets has done a pretty decent job of keeping
    the cold out so far (haven't used it over a winter yet).  I do agree
    that they are outrageously priced.
    
    I put in one of the larger sizes and had to build a removeable (and
    insulated) insert for the opening that could be locked in place to make
    the house a bit  more secure.  
    
    What other types of door are you considering?
    
    -will    

My Johnson door is between the screen porch and the
outside. That flexible plastic freezes and gets very
stiff, and does not seal well at all in the cold.
In our case it doesn't matter; a good seal is only
important in the summer to keep the bugs out.  I wouldn't
use one of these for a door to the house.

In four years I have replaced the original screws at the
top of the plastic, the ones that hold the several 
bits of plastic together and effectively act as hinges.
My dog goes through the door at Warp 9, and the door can't
take it. Those screws fell out within a month.  I 
threaded string through the holes and tied them off,
and that works much better.

We closed off a door from the dog's run to the garage,
becuase we could not figure out how to keep it working.
This door is much sturdier than the Johnson, and has
a glass door.  Vak pushed the entire frame into the 
garage.  We didn't want to give him unlimited access
to the garage becuase we store all kinds of stuff there.

Margaret.

Will, thanks for the input.  Can you tell me what the double-vinyl flap is?
The picture I saw in the RC Steel catalog just shows a single sheet with
magnets all around.  I'm wondering if there are other styles I haven't seen.

Another question for you; what type of saw did you use?  This looks like some
heavy duty cutting.  I have to cut the plasterboard in the house, and the
siding and plywood exterior sheeting under it.  All all I have is a handheld
jig-saw, and this job seems to call for something more.  Something like a
Sawzall.

Margaret, I found your comments very enlightening.  This is leading me to
think that Johnson is not the best door, even though it is the most expensive.
There are other varieties that don't use a vinyl sheet, but rather use a solid
plastic door with similar overhead hinges.  This would not freeze.  I think the
Johnson would provide a better seal in the warmer weather, since it's more
flexible.  But once is looses that flexibility, it seems less likely to seal
well.

One of my other concerns was which side to mount the door on, exterior or
interior.  Now I am thinking I should do both.  Both sides will have sides cut
out, and will need some kind of molding anyway.  It is a bit more money, but I
think there would great benefit in the colder weather to have an "air-lock"
between the doors.

Thanks for your comments.  They got me thinking!


                                                Fred

I don't think the Johnson is very well made - in addition
to the vinyl flap not working, the coating on the metal
frame has come off. Our other two doors are much better
made - one of the them is the door we closed off and 
the other is a cat door with a solid plastic door.

I don't understand how Johnson has obtained its 
reputation, although in warm weather it proabably does
have a better seal than the other doors. 

Margaret.

re: .6

>    I put in one of the larger sizes and had to build a removeable (and
>    insulated) insert for the opening that could be locked in place to make
>    the house a bit  more secure.  
    
Reminds me of a story I once heard.  An aquaintance was visiting a friend
and noticed a *very* large dog door.  She asked her friend if he wasn't
worried about someone entering his house through the dog door.  His
response was, "If you saw a dog door that large would *you* go in?"

-Hal

    Not that funny anymore. My neighbors had a rabid raccon enter through
    their cat door. Purched itself on the counter and hid behind the
    micro wave.
    Now there's a greating at breakfast.
    
    
    
    Don
    
    

    
    I'm not into "PET DOORS", but my daughter who resides in England
    has two cats.  They have a "pet door" which is about 6 to 8"
    in diameter and has an electromagnet that keeps it shut, plus
    it has an electomagnetic field which picks up on the field of
    the magnets that thier cats wear on thier collars and "unlocks"
    the door. Neat!
    
    Do they have these contrapshuns around here?
    
    Fred

re: .12

>    I'm not into "PET DOORS", but my daughter who resides in England
>    has two cats.  They have a "pet door" which is about 6 to 8"
>    in diameter and has an electromagnet that keeps it shut, plus
>    it has an electomagnetic field which picks up on the field of
>    the magnets that thier cats wear on thier collars and "unlocks"
>    the door. Neat!
>    
>    Do they have these contrapshuns around here?
    
Yeah, I've seen ads for them.  Don't remember where, though.

-Hal

    RC Steele (800)872-3773 lists one.  However, it is only good for
    cats.  Apparently the magnet has to make pretty good contact for the
    thing to open.  A dog's clearance above the other magnet is probably
    too high.
    
    
    						Fred

    
    The magnets that her cats wear on thier collars don't make
    contact with anything.  I'll guess at the distance, when either
    cat is about 6" from the little door, it unlocks.  And according
    to them, if other cats in the area are wearing a magnet, it will
    NOT open thiers.   I thought it was quite the gadget. Have no
    idea if they make them for dogs.  
    
    Fred
    

    re .8  double vinyl flap
    
    It's actually a flap within a flap with the inner flap hinged inside
    the outer flap.  When the dog goes through in one direction, it uses
    just the inner flap and in the other direction uses both flaps.  The
    inner flap seals magnetically to the outer flap and the outer flap to
    the frame.
    
    I suppose using two doors in one opening would make for a more weather
    tight seal but it may make it more difficult for the dog or the flaps
    could get tangled with each other.
    
    I cut the opening with a circular saw and a saber saw.  I don't have a
    sawzall but agree that would have been the right tool for the job.
    
    -will 
    

    OK, Willie, now I know what you mean about the flaps.  I think I will
    field-test the double door method.  I'd like to get the best seal
    possible to the outside world.  Also, cosmetically I think it would
    look better to have something on both the interior and exterior wall.
    Hopefully they won't interfere with each other.  If they do, the
    interior one (Johnson pet door) is the likely one to go.
    
    Thanks for the saw idea.  My circular saw can do most of the cutting,
    and I can just finish up the cuts with my jig-saw.
    
    
    							Fred

    I'm looking for recommendations on a brand for a metal (coated?) front
    door and for an installer in the Maynard, Mass area.  Specifically, has
    anyone had any experience with Wright Door and Window?  Any other
    installers/contractors recommended?
    
    Jim

    Im considering making my basement a walk-in.
    
    I've been quoted the following from a mason to do the job.
    
    Labor: $220 to cut 6'8" x 3' opening in concrete block
    foundation (done under an existing basement window).
    and install door.
    
    Stock: $95 for assorted installation stock
    	   [what is this?]
    
    I've chosen a Steel stanly door (full light, 15 lights)
    its 1/2 insulated glass. I want to let as much light in as
    possible through the door. Home depot Nashua is quoting me
    $246 for this door (pre hung)/                            
    
    Does this price sound reasonable?
    

    
    $220 to cut the hole and prepare the opening sounds VERY reasonable
    to me.
    
    Installation stock?
    
	After the hole is cut the opening will have to be "framed". This
    	can be done by bricking in with masonry or by framing it with
    	steel channel. Either way, $95 is probably reasonable.
    
    								- Mac

Here is my situation:

The entry to my kitchen from the garage has a luan door (poor insulating, five
second fire rating, just kick and you're in) and I'd like to replace it with a
pre-hung Stanley steel door (with wood frame) for better insulation and
security. I took the trim off of the garage side so that I could get accurate
frame measurements and found that the width is "standard" but the height is ~1"
too low to fit a standard size pre-hung door. A friend of mine is going to be
giving me a hand and he says that it is ok to trim a small amount from the
header to get the door to fit as long as it isn't too much in relation to the
height of the header (he said approximately 1/4 of the height is probably the
limit). I did some digging and found that the header is at least 6" high
(probably 8") so according to his guidelines one inch shouldn't be a problem. I
just wondered if any of you experienced DIY'ers had an opinion on this
situation. Will I do structural harm to my house if I trim 1"-1 1/4" from the
header? I suspect that this wall (although running parallel to the ceiling
joists) probably bears some weight.  

Re-framing the opening is an option I'd really like to avoid because I don't
want to damage the interior wall (recently wallpapered and no spare wallpaper
left). Though if I do have to do it, I might consider widening the opening a few
inches to accomodate a 36 inch door.

I'm also concerned that the thickness of the wall might be more than the
standard jamb thickness because the garage side of the wall has two layers of
wallboard. Why they went to the trouble of fire-proofing the wall and then put
in a luan door (might as well be newspaper) is beyond me. I will try to get an
accurate measurement of the wall thickness before I go to buy the door. I don't
know if they sell the doors with different width frames. 

Thanks in advance for the advice,

Steve B. 

    FWIW:  
    Go to a store and measure the doors there.
    I installed a Stanley door in my basement bulkhead.  There are a number
    of measurements that are not obvious if you've never seen such a door
    kit.   The size of the jamb and threshold may surprise you.
    
    wrt to cutting the header; I don't know, but have you considered
    lowering the threshold?  eg: there may be something you may have to cut
    out on the bottom.
    
    	Dave.

                            -< Cutting header ok? >-
	
	    How much header support you need depends on how many floors you
	have to support above the header.  If there is only attic, I believe
	2x4's are all you need for a standard width door.  Someone at Home
	Depot or Somerville, etc., would know the actual code requirements.

					Tim

Some more info about my situation...

There is only attic above this wall and the wall doesn't continue up into the
attic (if it did I'd believe that the wall is supporting the roof). 

I've gone to HD to measure the pre-hung doors they have there. I need
approximately one more inch of height for the opening. The jamb thickness I'm
not sure about because I haven't taken off the old door to get an accurate
measure of the wall thickness. I'll probably pull off one of the stops to
measure the existing jamb width before I go to buy the door. I could order a
"custom" sized door but it would cost close to twice as much as a "standard"
door. The custom is probably just a standard one cut down by however much I need
to take off. 

The existing door is made of luan and has no threshold. The kitchen floor
extends under the door until it reaches the first step down into the garage. The
door is really flimsy and air gets in underneath because of the lack of a
threshold. I've tried door sweeps but the wood in the door is so thin that the
screws keep falling back out. There is also no deadbolt because putting in a
deadbolt lock in a door anyone could easily punch a hole through would be pretty
silly IMO.  

Steve B.

    I had to build a door from scratch because the rough dimensions on my
    cellar opening are not standard. I was told to either build a door or go out
    and hire someone to cut a standard size opening.  Needless to say I
    built a new door.  The question is should I hang it on the jambs before I
    put it into the opening or after I put the jambs in the opening.  (I had to
    build new jamb too, the entire frame and door rotted out.)

    
    The door between my garage and basement rooms is solid wood, but has
    been faced on the garage side with galvanized steel for fire protection
    and added security.
    
    If you're not too concerned about how it looks on the garage side, then 
    that might be a solution as you can cut a solid wood door to the
    required size.
    
    Colin
    

    
    Facing the door with steel isn't really a viable option here because it 
    won't really solve the problem with drafts. The prehung doors have a 
    magnetic seal and a threshold that seals the door "like a refrigerator". 
    That's the primary reason for replacing the door. I'm really tired of 
    propping that mat up to the crack on the bottom to stop the drafts in the
    winter. The added security and fire-rating are secondary concerns here.
    
    Steve B.
                 

    Might you look around for a pre-hung door that's 6'6" (where the common
    size is 6'8")?  I needed to do that in my cellar;  if memory serves, it
    cost me around $150 and a week's wait (as compared to about $100 for
    the ones they have available at the shop).
    
    Given my lack of experience, and the fact that the door and frame would
    take care of everything (e.g., aluminium threshold with adjustable bits
    to ensure a lack of drafts), I ponied up.
    
    Dick

    
    -1
    
    There's a good vinyl weatherstripping around the jamb, and a
    raised threshold with draft excluder.  Has to be, as the only
    other barrier to the great outdoors is a double garage door.  

If there is only attic above then you can get away with 4" for the header.
Either cut into it or get a custom door.  A standard 4 15/16' jamb will not 
be deep enough if you have a standard 2x4 wall, 1/2 sheet rock on the 
inside and 2 - 5/8" fire code sheets on the outside.  However it should be 
very easy to cut away the extra sheetrock piece and "fit" the door into and 
up against the first sheet.  Dry fit the door, trace the sill with a  
pencil and cut away the second sheet.  When you dry fit make sure it is 
plumb and level before cutting the sheetrock else you'll need to cut more 
to allow you room to plumb the door.

      

    Re several notes back about the garage door replacement that is
    1" higher than the existing luan door... 
    
    Use a standard size steel door and it will cost a lot less.  I went
    to HD to get a door for 2x6 construction (6.5" jamb width).  They
    were happy to special order it for me, but it would have cost $80
    more!  I decided to extend the jamb on a standard door (3.5" jamb).  
    
    If the header is 6" or 8", then it's probably no problem to cut an
    inch off it.  The building code specifies header sizes, but it can
    be simpler for the builders to use one size header in all places,
    so headers over doors are often bigger than they really need to be.
    
    	Enjoy,
    	Larry

    As to why there's a bogus door when it should be fire rated...
    
    It's not unknown for an cooked builder to get one good door and "move"
    it to the house that's being inspected.
    
    Steveg

    re .35
    
    One more piece of info...the house was built about '59 so the fire
    codes might have been ALOT different then. I just figured that the
    only possible reason for them to use two layers of wallboard would be
    to fire proof and if they went to all that trouble to fire proof the
    wall, why use what might as well be a piece of paper instead of a
    solid, fire rated door?
    
    Thanks for all the info so far. The idea about cutting away part of the
    first piece of sheetrock makes alot of sense. I wish I'd thought of
    that! It'll probably even look better than having it sit on the outside
    wall (that is, if I can cut it cleanly enough that it doesn't look like
    a hack job!). I've got some patching to do on that side of the wall
    anyway because of the hole I dug figuring out how it was framed. 
    
    Steve B.
    
     

I looked at some more doors at HD this weekend and found that the "standard"
jamb depth they sell is 4 9/16". I got a rough measurement of the wall thickness
before I left of ~5 1/2". That would mean that even if I cut out BOTH layers of
sheet rock (they don't add up to anywhere near an inch) I wouldn't have enough
thickness with a standard size jamb width. They can special order a door with a
5 1/4" jamb depth for an extra $11.95. Not quite enough, but if I cut away one
layer of wallboard it will fit almost perfectly. I'm going to go to a few other
places (Sommerville Lumber, Spags, HQ etc) to see if they have any in stock so I
don't have to special order it. If anybody knows of a place that sells six panel
(no windows) pre-hung doors that fit a 32.5" wide 80.5" high opening (could be
trimmed to fit 81.5" high) with a jamb depth of 5 1/4" - 5 1/2" let me know.  

If I can't find a place that stocks it, I'll just go back to HD and special
order it. They said that it only takes seven calendar days to get it. 

Steve B.

    Not sure where you're located, but if you're near Nashua, NH,
    you could try Rivco on Amherst Street.  They sell pre-hung doors
    and may have something with a split jamb which will adjust to
    what you need.  You should be able to find millworking companies
    in the Yellow Pages under "Millwork"; you may also want to check
    under "Doors".
    
    FWIW, the idea of cutting away one layer of wallboard so you can
    fit the door sounds like a LOT more work than simply paying some
    millworking company (e.g., Rivco) to build a deeper jamb.  I'd 
    also (delicately) question how the resulting job will look to a
    potential reseller.

    
    It should look fine as long as it's plumb and level. It might even look
    a bit better. I'll need to do some wall patching anyway because of the
    hole I dug to check out the rough framing and if I do some damage to
    the wall while trimming it to fit the door I can fix it then. 
    
    Steve B.

    re .24
                          Look Down
     
    No door sill/flooring extends under door/no wood filler at bottom of
    door indicates a floor/door hacker after-thought. An exterior door
    is designed to sit on the rough floor, not on top of finished floors.
    I'll bet you can get between 5/8'ths to an inch of height by chopping
    out the flooring, any luan used as leveling, and the sub-floor. If
    you put a new door like a Stanley Kn, on top of what exists, you'll
    have one heck of a speed bump/trip hazard. So.. get out your best
    tools of destruction (including a nice sharp chisel) and hack out
    two to five layers of material that never should have been there to
    begin with.
     
    Thinking about this being a '59 model, I'd guess that you can get
    close to an inch of material out of the threshhold area.
    

>I looked at some more doors at HD this weekend and found that the "standard"
>jamb depth they sell is 4 9/16". I got a rough measurement of the wall thicknes

    Don't worry too much about the jamb thickness, it's easy enough to
    add to it later. I'd concentrate on getting the right height door
    and/or trimming away at the floor level to make one fit.

    Get the 4 1/2" jamb size  and add to it after the door is
    installed. You can buy some 1" by 2" or 3" or 4" pine stock, rip
    it it to the desired width and then fasten that on to the existing
    door jamb to extended it to the proper size. I've done this
    several times with excellent results.

    Charly

I remeasured the wall thickness and found it to be close to 5 1/4" (I had
previously measured it as 5 1/2"). So the special order jamb depth (5 1/4")
should alleviate that problem anyway. 

I think I might do a combination of lowering the floor and raising (trimming)
the header. If get all the height I need from the floor, then I won't have any
room for the door to clear the floor mat when it opens (I'm not sure about this,
but I don't think that the threshold is much more than an inch high) If I just
trim the header, then the threshold will stick up too high and cause a tripping
hazard. It'll just be a matter of figuring out the best tools to use and to
acquire them. My friend has access to a sawzall and I think that a good chisel
will be a good addition to my tool set. That might be all that I need. Now that
I don't have to worry about trimming away strips of wallboard, I'll have more
time to carefully trim above and below. 

I just wish it were a simple matter of taking the old one out and putting the
new one in!!! Oh well, it's never that simple in the real world...

Thanks for all the advice, keep it coming!!

Steve B.  

    
    
    ......Ya, but some people find it cheeper to stock
    	up on other peoples tools!!!!!
    
    JD

    What's a reasonable price for having an exterior door installed?
    
    We're having the exterior of our house painted. The painter noticed
    that the basement door is shot (the frame is rotting, so it's difficult
    to open. plus, the bottem panel of the 5-panel door is falling out.),
    and asked if we wanted it replaced. Since we're not getting multiple
    bids here, I don't know how I'll tell if his estimate is reasonable.
    
    Could someone give me an idea what replacing a door ought to cost?
    
    Thanks.
    
    Cathy

    I paid $820 a year ago to have my front door and its frame replaced
    (and the storm door put back on afterwards) with a fiberglass door.
    It took two men about 8 hours to do the job.  The door frame needed to
    be rebuilt, plus the original door, which was a "developer's special",
    was badly warped and in poor condition.  I think the prices of
    replacement doors vary a LOT, though.  I wanted one that looked as
    similar as possible to the original one so as to fit in with the rest
    of the house.  After I finished staining the inside and painting the
    outside, no one can tell the difference.  This was in Hudson, Mass.
    
    /Charlotte

    My wife wants a hook on the outside of our steel door.  She wants to be
    able to hang a wreath at Christmas or some corn now.  I hesitated to
    drill into the door on the outside because I was concerned about the
    bare metal rusting.  I guess I can dab some paint on the hole but is
    there any problem with water getting inside the door through a small
    hole for a hook?  Is there some type of sealer to use around a hook? 
    Surely someone out there must have a hook in a metal door.
    
    						John 

    They make "hooks" which fit over the top of the door for just this
    purpose.  They won't interfere with the door closing in most cases.
    I've seen them in lots of mail-order catalogs (the Lilian Vernon/
    Harriet Carter type).
    
    					Steve

    Also, there are plenty of hooks that attach using peel-off adhesive
    that would be strong enough to hold corn or a wreath (removing the
    hook is also possible, though if the door is painted, it's not
    impossible that some paint would accompany the removal). Check any
    home store.
    
    I'd agree with Steve's suggestion for an over-the-top solution,
    though. While these are in the catalogs, it's not that hard to  come
    up with a do-it-yourself version: a short strip of thin aluminum
    (not foil) bent to form over the top of the door, with some
    transparent fishing twine attached to a hole punched in the strip
    and holding up the wreath.
    
    One down-side is the wreath will tend to swing (I think this is true
    of the solution Steve's citing as well); a little tape holding the
    twine to the door just at the wreath would serve to counter that
    tendency.

    Those over-the-door fixtures are available most anywhere these
    days.  No need to order.  TJMaxx has them with their XMAS stuff.
    I would think any craft store or even hardware store would have
    them.  They work just as well as pounding a hole in the door.  ;*)

    justme....jacqui

    
    A self-adhesive coathook stuck on to a strong magnet?
    
    Colin
    

    
    .-1 
    
    	Actually they sell the very thing at many hardware stores and
    	craft stores. A hook mounted on a strong magnet specifically 
    	for the purpose of hanging things on steel exterior doors.
    
    								- Mac

    
       I put on a brass door knocker. You can tie whatever you want to
      that (so long as you have a doorbell too).
    
                     Mark

    
    re 19
    
    I figured there might be something like that out there, though I'd
    never seen one.  Being a tinkerer I have a box of magnets so the
    self-adhesive coathook is a cheap'n cheerful solution.
    
    It might be an idea to get two hooks for the top and bottom of
    the wreath.  With one hook alone, the wreath tends to swing
    around wildly as you open or close the door, usually ending up
    crooked.
    
    C

    
    Well my door project was a success! I ended up doing what I said
    before, I dug out the floor and also trimmed about an inch off the
    header. I didn't have a sawsall handy so I ran the circular saw across
    the header a number of times and just chiseled out the pieces in
    between. It's not neat, but nobody's gonna see it unless they take the
    door out. This operation DEFINITELY required the use of safety goggles
    and EXTREME care. 
    
    One problem I ran into was that when I went to buy the door, they
    didn't have any more left in the size I needed (silly me, I had already
    taken the old door off!) I had checked a few days before and they had
    TONS of them. I called seven places before I found one that would fit. I 
    ended up with a "Therma-true" prehung unit. If I had bought the Stanley I 
    wouldn't have had to trim the header as much, the Therma-true door was 
    almost a full inch taller than the Stanley but I was in a pinch, I had to 
    finish it that day or my wife would've had my head and I was told that the 
    "Therma-true" is a slightly better door than the Stanley. It does have a 
    nice hybrid, oak/aluminum threshold instead of the all aluminum threshold 
    on the Stanley.  
    
    I also used one of the other helpful suggestions from this note and cut
    away the sheetrock and rested the brickmold on the studs that frame the
    opening, this allowed me to use a standard width jamb. I've gotta patch
    the wall a bit on one side, but I was gonna have to anyway because of
    the exploratory surgery I did before I bought the door. 
    
    I was able to acquire some much needed tools that I rolled up with the
    cost of this project: a set of chisels, a 24" level, a miter box and
    backsaw (el-cheapo model, but this may be the only time I use it
    anyway) and some odd and end supplies. 
    
    Thanks for all the help, I'd still be there struggling with it if I
    didn't have some good advice.
    
    Steve B. 
     

    I am converting the living room and kitching on the second floor into
    2 bedrooms. The top part of the entrances to both rooms are in arc
    shape (about 1/3 of a circle). Does anyone know of a good carpenter
    that can frame and build the doors for a reasobale cost ? I live in
    Medford (5 miles north of Boston).
    
    If the cost of custom built the doors is too high, are there any
    alternative ways of putting in the doors ? For example, can a regular door
    be framed behind the entrances, any suggestions ? 
    
    
    

    It is very expensive to get the doors to be curved at the top.  I don't
    know what the height it, but you may want to conside putting in a
    rectangular door with fixed half circle above it.  The fixed half
    circle could be a window, wood, or plastered in to match the wall,
    depending on the look you want.
    
    Elaine

    It may end up being cheapter to rip out the curved tops and reframe
    them to be rectangular openings.

    re: .11  The size of the opening is about the same size of a regular
    door. So, putting a stationary 1/3 circle at the top is not practical.
    
    re: .12   I may end up of doing that. But I would like to see if there
    is alternative method(s) to avoid cutting the curve top, even if I have
    to sacrifice the appearance a little bit.
    
    Any carpenter recommendation ? I really need someone to do this job.
    
    Thanks.
    

>    Any carpenter recommendation ? I really need someone to do this job.

See 2004.*.

I have an interior door in my house that fits funny when closed.  By "funny", I
mean that the bottom edge of the door is seated fully "home" into the jamb when
the door is closed, but the top edge is not seated "home" at all.  In fact, it
sticks out enough that I can see light through the gap.  

So, it looks like something is warped.  How do I check?  I suppose that I can
check if the door is flat by using a 6' or so straightedge and just lay it
around on the door.  And I suppose I can use a plumb bob to check the door
frame.  Any other suggestions?

-Chris Allen

    
    Close one eye.
                                                 short edge
    Now use the open eye to sight             .--------------.
    across the door from one long edge        |              |
    to the other. Move the eye                |              |
    (preferably by moving the enclosing       |              |
    head) perpendicular to the long           |              |
    edge (into and out of the screen in the   |    long ---> |
    diagram). If the door is perfectly flat,  |    edge      |
    the plane of the door surface and the     |              |  *> eye
    far edge will line up with the near       |              |
    edge, disappearing and reappearing        |              |
    instantly as you move the eye back        |              |
    and forth. If warped, one end of the      |              |
    far edge will disappear before the        |              |
    other end. Do this on both sides          |              |
    of the door (front and back); sight       `--------------'
    along the long edge and then the
    short edge.
    

    Now that you've checked, it's almost certainly the door rather than the
    frame that is warped, especially if it is a hollow-core door.  it is
    possible to straighten it out, but it may not be worth trying, and it
    will most likely not stay straight anyhow, so you may end up replacing
    the door.  I have one that is warped pretty badly.  It doesn't bother
    me too much, though, so we sanded off the top edge of the door so that
    it doesn't hit the fram anymore now that the door is warped, and
    chiseled out a bit more where the latch fits into the frame, so that
    the door closes securely (since it keeps the cats, especially the
    mischief-on-four-legs kitten, out of the study), stained the exposed
    wood where we sanded, and have left it at that.
    
    /Charlotte

    
    You could try putting a screw eye in the corners running diagonally
    from the bottom to the top and stretch a wire between them.  Put a
    tension fastener in the middle and gradually increase the tension
    to pull the door back into shape.
    
    One of the problems with these hollow core doors is that they seem to
    cut off a heck of a lot of supporting material when fitting them (and
    then again when fitting carpets).  Some of mine are sawn down so far that
    the fasteners show.  If you do replace the door get the best fit that
    you can so that you don't have to cut off material.  And consider
    using rising butt hinges rather than trimming the door to accommodate
    the carpet.
    
    
    Colin
    

I did the sighting-from-the-edge trick in .45 and the door is indeed warped.
The frame is nice and plumb, so it's all in the door.  Thanks for the
suggestions!

Now this is a 6-panel solid wood door, not a hollow core job.  I wonder why a
door like this would warp?  Cheap wood?  Manufactured when the wood wasn't quite
dry?  Top and bottom edges not sealed?

-Chris Allen

    My front door was a six-panel "solid" door (actually, the panels were
    maybe only a quarter-inch thick so it wasn't a very slod door anyhow). 
    It got so warped that it was hard to shut, and the direction it warped
    changed with the temperature and humidity outside (even though all four
    edges were sealed).  I finally got frustrated and replaced it with an
    identical-looking fiberglass door.  Once I painted it, you can't even
    tell that the door isn't the same as it was, but this one always closes
    and latches properly.  I assume the original one was an el-cheapo
    "builder's special" since a lot of the original fittings in the house
    were of that sort!  I don't know if you can do the piano-wire trick to
    straighten out one of these things; it wasn't a practical idea on the
    front door anyhow, and like I said, I just live with the warped
    interior door since all it really has to do is keep the kitten from
    chewing up the cables of the computer.  Good luck!
    
    /Charlotte

    Oops! I mistakenly sent this note God knows where as a "reply" instead
    of a "write" so bear with me, OK?
    
    I recently had my house vinyl sided, and installed front and back
    steel doors, with full-view storm doors.  After the storm doors were
    installed, I was advised not to use the glass inserts, as the heat
    would build up and cause the four coats of paint on the steel doors
    to melt/wrinkle/whatever.   Had I know this, I would never have
    ordered full view storms, but would have used something like a
    cross-buck design, so that the back door storm (which will get a
    lot of use) would have a more substantial bottom half for wear and
    tear.
    
    Question:  Have any of you experienced any problems using a glass
    insert in a fullview storm together with a steel painted door?  My
    house does get the sun in the afternoon,  so I'm wondering if I
    should just leave the screens on all year round.  
    
    Thanks for your usual good advice.
    
    

I installed a new "Therma True" six panel steel covered door last fall and am
finally getting around to installing the deadbolt I bought to go into it. The
problem I have (that I didn't notice before) is that the backset on the deadbolt
is too long to put it where I want it. If I install it where I want it, it will
hang over one of the panel recesses about 1/8" to 1/4". I just wonder if I could
buy a shorter backset that will work with this deadbolt. My wife suggested
installing the deadbolt about 5' up from the floor so this won't matter, but I'd
rather have it near the doorknob. 

Unfortunately, unlike the Stanley door, the deadbolt hole wasn't already there
but I borrowed a steel door holes saw from a friend...

Steve B. 

    
    Our house gets full afternoon sun directly on to the steel front door
    through a full storm.  It gets very hot in between the doors even 
    during early spring.  If I'm tardy about switching the glass insert
    for a screen at the right time, the steel door can get hot enough to
    cause a burn.
    
    In spite of this, the paint work had held up very well.  I used
    krylon vinyl acrylic gloss (which is not recommended for steel doors)
    if anything, the heat has baked it on.
    
    However, the bug screen is pretty beaten up and has to be replaced this
    year.
    
    
    Couple of suggestions:
    
      o  I think there's there a reflective film that you can apply to
         glass insert to help reduce the greenhouse effect.
    
      o  If you are concerned about damage to the screen netting, you can
    	 put up a pet screen to protect the lower half of
         the bug screen insert.
    
    I've seen a couple of doors that have a shuttered vent at the top of
    the door to allow hot air to escape.  I don't know if this is a DIY.
    
    Regards,
    
    Colin
    
    

It's the design of the bolt that determines the backset (the distance from
the edge of the door to the hole.)  The Schlage deadbolts I use can be
adjusted for at least two different backsets.  You'll probably have to buy
a different deadbolt if yours can't be adjusted.

					Steve

    Your misplaced reply is at 14.22...I wondered what it had to do
    with woodstove catalytic converters.....
    

Well,

The one I have can be adjusted but not small enough.

Steve B.

    Many years ago we selected to purchase a steel door which had raised
    panels.  The person who installed our door neglected to tell us that
    we could not use the windows in the screen door.  Needless to say, 
    when we were preparing for winter we removed the screens and installed
    the window.  What happened was that the panels warped terribly from the
    intensity of the heat.  The paint on the door however did not appear
    to be damaged.  We had no alternative but to remove the panels which
    left holes in the door (almost like peg holes).  Each pannel had
    resulted in 4 peg holes.  We tried to putty them up and sand them
    down but the results were not satisfying. 
    
    We have just looked into getting this door replaced as well as the
    screen door.  I am also looking at getting a hi-lite screen door which
    is very similar to a full view but has a small solid piece at the
    bottom.  I will ask again about the heat intensity and if I am told
    that I will not be able to put the storm window into the screen door
    I will probably select a 'classic' or 'crossbuck' for the screen door.
    One other note...if you have a large dog you may want to consider
    having a bar installed at the bottom of your full view door.  The
    person who will be doing our work informed us of a gentleman who
    had his dog go right through the screen to when someone came to his
    door.
    
    Nancy

    I've been told that solid doors will hold up well, but doors with
    windows in them (you know, the small ones at the top) will fail because
    the plastic frame that holds them in will warp.
    
    I have a wood storm with a solid steel door.  I made sure the steel
    door was very weathertight and also made sure the storm door had a gap
    on the top and bottom to facilitate air movement.  I then change to a
    screen during the summer.

      I was adding a storm door to the front of my South facing house recently.
    Both Home Depot and Somerville Lumber told me not to use a full view
    glass door because of the intense heat build up.  The biggest reason
    the said was that the insulation in the steel door would melt and all 
    settle down toward the bottom of the door!  They suggested I install
    a self-storing door which is one where there are two pannels of glass
    one of which covers a screen panel.  You can slide one of the glass
    panels up and down.  The idea is to leave the screen open when the
    steel door is shut.  They were not full view though.
    

    Why don't they just use low e glass?

I have a full-view glass storm door on my south-facing front door.  (The door
itself is wood).  Despite various warnings, I haven't detected any problems
from this.  I did put a reflective film on the glass for a while, then took
it off as it hid the door (and we have a door we want to be able to see).

It might be different if you had a steel door with plastic molding around the
glass (as many do).

				Steve

    
    > the said was that the insulation in the steel door would melt and all 
    > settle down toward the bottom of the door!  They suggested I install
    
    Mine has got pretty hot in the past but the insulation seems
    to be fine after 9 years.  I drilled the door a couple of years ago
    to install a peephole and it was still in place.

    
    I have a steel door, with the plastic moulding to hold the windows in,
    that is faced directly south.  After 8 years, there are no warped
    panels, no melted or warped plastic, and definately no paint peeling.
    
    

    Yabut, do you have a storm door with a glass insert in front of your
    steel door?  
    
    If so, I think I'm going to put the darn thing on and see what happens.
    
    You've all been terrific, with lots of ideas.  Thanks a million!
    
    Peace,
    Chick

    
    We have the steel door and a full-view beveled glass storm door. We
    have had the glass storm door for a year, no problems.  At the
    beginning of the warm weather, we take the glass out, and put in the
    screen.
    
    The glass was in all winter and my house is on a hill and we get alot
    of sun, we have had no problems with the paint peeling or with the
    steel door itself.
    
    Mary
    

    Thanks, Mary.  With all the great advice I received, I've decided to
    go ahead and put in the glass, come September.  I'll certainly let
    everyone know if I run into any problems.    
    
    Thanks again.
    Chick

I don't have the full glass type of storm door, but I painted the door dark
brown and the plastic moldings on the top half melted.  This was not summer
sun, but it is Colorado Springs, so we get more sun with 6000 ft less air to
block it.  My storm door is also dark, but it is the kind with an upward
sliding pane of glass with screen.  If you put the glass in, I'd test the
temperature on a hot sunny day.  I have not figured out a way to satisfacto-
rily repair the door.  And I really don't want to replace it.    Rich

    I seem to recall the warning on my door:
    
    warranty void if not painted within 45 days or if painted with dark
    color or used inside glass storm door ...
    
    Given that every other house in the neighborhood with this door has it
    painted dark except mine which hasn't been painted for the last, now,
    180 days... I'd guess they're all doomed.
    
    ed

    
    My door is painted a characoal grey.  No problems with it at
    all.
    
    Mary
    

This situation is one of the top half-dozen or so that the Boston Globe's
Home Handyman (Peter Hotten) has to handle.
Apparently enough people have problems with heat buildup between a glass
storm and an insulated steel door that it SHOULD be well-known not to do this.
All the problems noted here (warped seals, melted insulation, burns(!))
appear to be possible.

- tom]

       	I sent mail to the author of .10 with a suggestion (because his
    original question was posted in the wrong note) that may be worth
    mention. 

    	Assuming that some people like that full-glass look and already have 
    both the steel door and the full storm, an awning may be able to be used 
    to keep the sun off the storm while still allowing for a full view. It
    also has the added benefit of blocking rain when you need to unlock the
    door on rainy days.

    	Ray

    .14:
    
    Yeah, with those restrictions they probably only cover 2% of the doors
    they sell.
    
    Dick

    Hi, my talented noters!
    
    Has anyone run up against this problem?  I had a new steel front door
    installed, and twice it has stuck so bad I can't pull it open from
    the inside.  I had the installer come down the first time, he pulled
    it open and said it was probably the seal that was doing that.  Fine,
    but since it stuck again, I'm wondering, short of calling him again,
    is there something I can apply to the seal that would help -- or what
    does he need to do to see that this doesn't happen again?  
    
    Thanks for your usual good advice.
    
    Chick 

  4264  TAYSSG::WARREN       10-JUN-1991     4  STICKY STEEL ENTRY DOOR

    Thanks, Jeff, for going to the trouble to point me to the right note.
    I'll try the silicon spray and the talcum powder treatment and let you
    know how it turns out.  
    
    Peace,
    Chick