Conference 7.286::home_work

    Rustoleum has a new product out called "rust reformer". It supposedly
    can be put on the rust to chemically change it to a rust-proof and
    paintable barrier. It is available at most hardware stores (I know
    Somerville has it) for about $5 a bottle... I have yet to try it so I
    can't vouch for its performance yet... 
    
    Anyone out there tried it yet?

-mike

    
    	I've never used Rustoleum, but I have used Zinc Chromate
    	primer on rusty metal, and it works well. The idea is
    	that the Zinc is a more active metal than the Iron and
    	Oxygen is more active than the Chromate radical, so the
    	rust and the paint swap and you end up with Iron Chromate 
    	and Zinc Oxide - both of which are durable (and no rust).
    
    	Most paint and hardware stores carry it. Plan on putting on 
    	a heavy top coat of paint or two coats though because the 
    	Chromate paint is *bright* yellow!   
        
    			 			Lance

    Surface preparation is important.  Painting over rust is sort of
    like painting over flaking paint.  Abuse the swing set with a wire
    brush until you've taken off as much rust as will come, then go
    at it some more to make sure.  A little sandpaper is good too.
    The rust-remover chemicals (naval jelly, etc.) change the rust to
    a more stable compound, and if you're feeling particularly compulsive
    a treatment with one of those formulas would probably help.  Rustoleum
    has a "damp-proof red primer" and a "zinc chromate primer".  As
    I recall, they recommend the red primer for sound rusted metal and
    the zinc chromate for either a primer coat on top of the red primer
    or as a primer coat on bare metal.  The DO work - but they work
    better the less rust there is to begin with.
    
    Steve
    

    I would use the Rustoleum-type stuff.  There is also the same stuff made
    by Duro.  It requires only that you remove the flaking rust so that
    you have a solid base to work with.  You don't have to get rid of
    all the rust.  What results is a black, hard, surface that you can 
    paint over.  It is very easy to use - it is water souble so that brush 
    cleanup is easy.  The areas that are not rusty will come out clear.  I 
    just bought the Rustoleum stuff (small bottle) at Spag's for $2.99.
    Why knock your brains out trying to get rid of the rust?  It's an almost
    impossible task on many surfaces.

The original product in the stop the rust products is Loctite Extend
(Duro's parent company).  You can buy Extend from companies that
sell industrial solvents, lubricants etc. for a lot less uplift
in price because they do no marketing on these  products.  I got a quart
of Loctite extend from the Waites company in Worcester for $12.00.

Use the stuff.  It will stop the existing rust and  prevent new rust without
a lot of heavy preparation.

-peter

    I used the Duro Extend on my old '73 Volvo Wagon, then primed, sanded,
    and painted the spots. Worked likea charm, seemed to hold up up
    under paint, and was still good two years later when I sold the car.

    I found it did not hold up when left without a protective paint
    covering. Use it and then prime/paint over it within a couple a
    weeks for best results. Next project for me is the mailbox with
    this stuff...........

	re: Duro and Rust_Oleum 'rustbuster' paints...
	
	How well do you think either of these will hold up under the heat
	of a motorcycle exhaust system?  I have a high temperature header
	paint (withstands 1400 degrees  F.), but need to prepare the pipe
	surface which has rusted in places over the years.
	
	The surfaces are pitted, so  a  'fine' finish is impossible.  How
	does 'naval' jelly work?  I'm  told  that the rust-o-leum product
	reacts with the rust, forming close to  the  orginal  base again.
	This implies to me that it will hold up under the heat.
	
	What would YOU do?
	
	Chris

    Naval jelly is basically phosphoric acid, which turns the rust into
    iron phosphate.  I'm not sure what the Rustoleum and Duro products
    do/are, but from using the Rustoleum one my guess is that it's also
    phosphoric acid with something else in it to make a coating over
    the converted rust.  
    The iron phosphate should be pretty durable against heat, I would
    guess.  The extra coating that the Rustoleum product seems to put
    over the surface is probably not durable against heat (my guess).
    You might try a few experiments with a propane torch and an old
    rusty nail that you've treated; that would probably tell you a lot.
    
    I think I would:
    1. Scrub the surface with a wire brush and/or emery paper to get 
       rid of as much loose rust as possible;
    2. Apply one of the rust converter products, probably doesn't much
       matter which one;
    3. Scrub the surface again with brush and solvent to remove any coating
       the converter stuff may have left;
    4. Possibly repeat steps 2 and 3 if it looks as though another
       application might help;
    5. Apply the high-temperature primer and paint.
    
    Oxalic acid will remove rust (not just convert it to something else), 
    if you can let the rusty part soak for a while in a solution of it.
    I've been told that a mixture of vinegar and salt will also remove
    rust, if the part can soak for a while (days).

     RE: .7
    
      Don't waste your time with DURO or RUST_OLEUM "RUSTBUSTER PAINTS"
    on your headers, I've tried it and it's only temporary, after a
    few days it flakes off. Although after the paint flakes off the
    metal appears to offer a higher resistance to rust, I'd use the
    Naval Jelly to remove the rust before painting.
    
    My results FWIW, Jeff
    

	re: .-2, .-1
	
	Well, I tried the experiment using a very rusty nail.  Sanded off
	what  rust I could,  but  left  some  to  simulate  the  headers.
	RustOleum on one end, Naval  jelly  treatment  on the other.  The
	Rustoleum left a coating behind that  I  sanded  down,  the naval
	jelly  side  was already down to bare  metal.    Heating  with  a
	propane  torch  did  nothing  to the naval jelly  side,  but  did
	produce some smoking and scortching on the rustoleum side.
	
	I  have  since  treated  the  pipes w/ naval jelly and painted w/
	header paint. The real test will be an extended ride...
	
	I thought the naval jelly was a gimmick, thanks for the data.
	
	Chris

    there are special high temperature paints for automotive headers.
     this may be a topic for CARBUFFS.
    
    the BEST way to do headers (show and go quality) is to have them
    porcelanized.  there are places who advertise in Hemmings that do
    that for reasonable prices.
    
    I have used header paint on a car with tubular headers and have
    been happy.
    
    	-Barry-
    

	Update on header painting...
	
	I used  Kal  Gard  Header  Cote  and  applied  according  to  can
	directions.  To my surprise, the paint stayed a little tacky, but
	managable when reinstalling.   I fired it up and it S M O K E D a
	lot, but in doing so cured the  coating,  leaving  a very durable
	finish behind, not super glossy, but a satiny  black...    really
	looks sharp.
	
	Chris_who's_happier_than_a_pig_in_...

    most high-temp paints do need high-temp to 'bake' on and cure
    	-Barry-
    

RE: < Note 323.12 by ALIEN::PETROVIC "Looking for a simpler place & time..." >
	Update on header painting...
	
    Reminds me of college when I lived with a guy whose nickname was "Tools".
    He was a dirt track motorcycle mechanic and had a couple of bikes himself.
    One winter he rebuilt his motorcycle in our living room.  To cure his
    repainted pipe, he baked it in our oven.

    "What's in the oven?", "My muffler, I don't think it's toxic..."

    George