[Search for users] [Overall Top Noters] [List of all Conferences] [Download this site]

Conference 7.286::home_work

Title:Home_work
Notice:Check Directory (6.3) before writing a new note
Moderator:CSLALL::NASEAM::READIO
Created:Tue Nov 05 1991
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2100
Total number of notes:78741

110.0. "Window - Skylights" by BPOV09::PERRY () Wed Apr 23 1986 11:59

    
    We are currently considering putting sky-lights on our house
    
    to improve the lighting conditions of two up-stair rooms in
    
    our cape style house. Can someone give me some info as to what
    
    type of trade offs might need to be considered. Heat loss, leaks
    
    costs to purchase and install and whatever others I may not be 
    
    aware of. What sizes do they come in ? Where can I get the best
    
    buy ? What is the level of difficulty to install.
    
    thanks 
    
    pat.
    
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
110.1a little helpCRETE::GORDONWed Apr 23 1986 13:356
you could burn electric lights forever and not overrun the cost of the
skylites, installation and heat loss; however, they are nice.  i put
five in my house last fall.  i used ROTO brand as sold by Somerville
Lumber.  Velux is the other really good brand.  i shopped prices,
found Somerville with their free delivery the best and used their
price to get Wickes in Acton to match it.  installation is fairly easy.
110.2CAUTION::= PITCHTRUTH::SMICKVan SmickWed Apr 23 1986 13:5924
                    A word of caution:  PITCH.                    
                                                  
    Skylights are relatively easy to install and if you follow the
    manufacturer's instructions they are unlikely to leak IF THE ROOF
    HAS SUFFICIENT PITCH. Skylight manufacturers list the pitch for
    which a given skylight was designed. Check this before you buy!
                                                                   
    I installed three large skylights in a porch I built.  The pitch
    of the roof was not steep enough and so the skylights leaked.  I had
    to correct the problem by re-doing part of my installation.
                                
                                
 ENERGY:                                                                    
                                
    As far as heat loss goes, most modern skylights are insulated --
    meaning that there are at least two layers of clear plastic/glass,
    but double check to make sure the skylights you buy indicate that
    they are insulated.                         
                                                
    You will loose more heat through a skylight than through a well
    insulated ceiling, but the light and perception of expanded space
    are worth it, in my opinion.
                                
                                
110.3Don't buy theseKRYPTN::FINGERHUTWed Apr 23 1986 16:4910
    Don't buy the kind I have.  They're made by Velux and
    they hinge in the center.  This means when you open
    them the bottom half goes out and the top half goes in.
    That means there's no easy way to put a normal screen
    on them, because the half that opens in won't have room
    because of the screen.  You would need to have a distance
    from the window to the screen of 1/2 the vertical height
    of the window.  Velux does however make good ones that
    open out.
    
110.4Buy the manufacturer's flashing kit...JOET::JOETJoe TomkowitzThu Apr 24 1986 15:257
    Three things to be certain that you do:
    
    1)	Buy the flashing kit from the manufacturer.
    2)	Don't try to be cheap and not buy the manufacturer's flashing kit.
    3)	Buy the flashing kit from the manufacturer.
    
    -joet
110.5Heat loss <<<<< Enjoyment factorZEPPO::SULLIVANMark SullivanThu Apr 24 1986 23:2714
    As I have mentioned in previous notes, I have talked to several
    builders and all have said universally (sp?) that VELUX makes the
    best roof window. They claim it is the only one that will not leak over
    time.
    
    I will also second the reply about the center hinged windows. They
    are a pain. I have both types. The top hinged ones are much nicer.
    
    I also installed my windows myself. Easily done and you don't even
    need to get on the roof to do it. Cut the hole and then work from
    inside the hole. 
    
    							Mark
    
110.60Leaking SkylightFROST::WALZGary WalzMon May 19 1986 19:3014
     I have two Roto brand skylights in my house.  Both are on a 
     sufficiently steep pitch.  One leaks about every second or third 
     rainstorm, the other one not at all.

     I'm convinced that it's not the light itself that's leaking, but
     the installation.  I have attempted to seal and reseat the shingles
     above and around the skylight, but it hasn't helped.  

     Any suggestions?

     -Gary


110.61Talk to manufacturer.FURILO::BLESSLEYTue May 20 1986 12:377
    A friend of mine had a similiar problem. The people at Roto were
    _emphatic_ about helping to isolate the problem. Might be an isolated
    case of manufacturer's pride, but based on my friend's experience,
    I'd contact Roto for their suggestions.
    
    -scott
    
110.62STAR::FARNHAMPlain thinking,but on another plane.Tue May 20 1986 12:395
    
    We had a similar experience with Roto, and, as in .1, they came
    out to resolve the problem. I no longer have their number (or that
    house...), but they're in Hyde Park, MA.
    
110.63Good Idea...FROST::WALZGary WalzWed May 21 1986 16:144
     Thanks to both of you (.1 and .2).  I'll give them a try.

     -gary
110.70SkylightsBOEHM::SEGERthis space intentionally left blankTue Apr 14 1987 17:1713
I don't recall seeing any notes in here on skylights.  I think I'll be putting
in some around 3X4 feet.  From what I've seen already, one can get them fixed
or opening.  I prefer the opening kind, but if they pivot in the middle, you
can't put in a screen.  I wonder why they did that?  On the other hand, if you
put in a screen, you block some of the light.

The only brand I'm really familiar with is Velux and I've always assumed that to
be one of the better brands.  I've recently seen Roto on sale in various places
but have no idea of the quality.

opinions?

-mark
110.71It's out there someplaceGUMMO::SULLIVANMark SullivanTue Apr 14 1987 17:2313
    re .0
    
    	There was quite a bit of discussion about a year ago on skylights.
    I know I entered a long note on them. I think the base note was
    entered by Tony Priborsky (sorry if I got the spelling wrong Tony).
    
    	In a nutshell, I strongly recommend Velux, high quality, no
    leaks, easy to install. And they have a model (TPS-1) which opens
    from the top and has an integral screen. If you find the other notes,
    see if you can get a keyword added to them.
    
    						Mark
    
110.72Keyword=RoofFRSBEE::PAGLIARULOTue Apr 14 1987 17:297
Mark,

	Check under the keyword "roof".  I was looking under it earlier today 
and saw some skylight related topics.

George P

110.73VeluxVIDEO::FINGERHUTTue Apr 14 1987 18:157
    The note was #136.  However I'll append what I wrote there by
    adding that I have since added 2 Velux TPS-1's.  These are much
    better than the ones I had which hinged in the middle.  I also
    have screens and shades for them.  So now I have 2 with screens
    and 2 that can't take screens.  The ones that can't take screens
    might as well be fixed glass.
    
110.74Pro Roto..JOULE::CONNELLIt's mine! mine! all mine!Tue Apr 14 1987 18:5024
< Note 1013.0 by BOEHM::SEGER "this space intentionally left blank" >
I prefer the opening kind, but if they pivot in the middle, you
can't put in a screen.  I wonder why they did that?  On the other hand, if you
put in a screen, you block some of the light.

As you must have figured by now---don't get center hinging ones!

I installed a pair of Roto SV14 skylights last summer.  They measure about 
3x4 feet.  I found them to be of excellent quality and very easy to install.
The flashing kit comes with them and even though I installed them in an
already shingled roof, the job was pretty easy.  There hasn't been a hint of
a leak yet.  They come with removable screens and the opening mechanism is
accessible without removing the screen.  (This is important-- I've seen some
that have a hinging scheme on the screen which you have to lower just to get
at the window mechanism, a real pain if you're reaching up <10' to do it!)
I find the screen blocks some sunlight, but not enough to really be concerned
about.

Also, Mark, skylights are another reason for 2x10 roof rafters.  The "light 
box" effect is less pronounced in a "thinner" roof. 8^)

						--MIke


110.75ULTRA::PRIBORSKYTony PriborskyTue Apr 14 1987 19:4612
    I used an Anderson model 2944.   They have them in lots of different
    sizes.   You can usually find them on sale, Weber lumber regularly
    has a 30%-off-list-truckload-sale (read, order with a deposit and
    wait up to 6 weeks).   That was the best price I found and I could
    wait.   The flashing kit is separate, and you MUST order it.
    
    My father (a contractor) recommends Bleffa (Blefa?) roof windows.
    They're German built, and look real solid.   I would get that one
    now if I were doing it over again.   Maki in Lunenberg has them.
    
    As always, the Rolls Royce of Windows, Pella, makes one helluva
    roof window, if you're willing to spend the dollars.
110.76An alternativeCOGNAC::GRISETony GriseTue Apr 14 1987 20:3813
    
    
    	I just bought 4 skylights from New England Eagle Products
    	of Concord, NH. They are venting, with flashing and screens.
    
    	I have three different sizes, the biggest is 30" x 46", it
    	cost me @ $330.00 for this size.  It looks to be a good skylight
    	I'll let you know, they are for a new house I am building.
    
    	I think this is a low price because I bought all my windows
    	for the house from this company.  The company makes excellent
    	quality windows, skylights, and patio doors, the service is
    	excellent.
110.77Another recommendation for BleffaFROST::SIMONMister Diddy Wah Diddy?Wed Apr 15 1987 16:027
	I put in a couple of 3x3 Bleffa skylights a couple of years ago
	when I built my place.  Great window, absolutely no problems
	or leaks.

	-gary

110.78I'm going with AndersenMENTOR::PJOHNSONWed Apr 15 1987 21:2615
    I'm about to have a builder include an Andersen RW2144V roof window
    and selected it for the following reasons:
    
    Can't beat the quality or guarantee.
    
    And as far as opening in the middle, the Andersen has a screen that
    pulls down in a channel.  The only time I can think of that you'd
    want to pivot the thing in the middle (which the Andersen does,
    as well as at the top) is to wash the outside.  To do so, just put
    the screen up and pivot!
    
    Go to Mullen or someplace that has one installed so you can watch
    it work.  Very impressive.
    
    Pete
110.79A ROTO rooterAKOV01::MCPHEETom McPhee GIA Field ServiceThu Apr 16 1987 12:4815
    I have two velux skylites with hinges in the middle.  A real pain.
    A year ago, I installed two additional ROTO skylites in a new sunspace.
    As mentioned, with screens in place, the windows crank open about
    12 inches (hinged at one end).  They are TERRIFIC.  High quality.
    The windows came with an 8 foot crank so I can reach them to open.
    I just installed spring-loaded sun shades to keep the sun out or
    in depending on the time of year.  ROTO has a good collection of
    these miscellaneous "attachments" which can be purchased for the
    windows, as well.
    
    I will stay with ROTO as a totally satisfied customer.
    
    Tom
    
                                                       
110.80is the main difference price?BOEHM::SEGERthis space intentionally left blankFri Apr 17 1987 12:145
I had looked at some prices several months ago and if I recall correctly, the
big difference between the Velux and Roto was that Roto included the flashing
kit in their price and Velux didn't.  The difference was close to $100!

-mark
110.81Center-hinge windows DO come with screens.TALLIS::DEROSAI (doghead) heart bumper stickers.Wed Apr 22 1987 21:1419
    We have the Velux roof windows that hinge in the middle.  It is
    NOT TRUE that they do not have screens.
    
    Velux sells screens that have a velcro backing.  Basically, you
    attached a velcro strip (from Velux --- it comes with the window)
    around the roof window opening and then you can stick the screen
    to the velcro.  (The strip goes around the window molding.)
    
    In order to move the window, you peel back a corner of the screen.
    When you finish fiddling with the window, you press the screen back
    into the velcro.
    
    Whether this is a kludge or elegant is a matter of opinion.  It
    isn't as convenient as a permanent screen.  On the other hand, I
    do not like rotary handles or push-out rods on windows, and the
    balance of a center-hinge window can't be beat.
    
    
    jdr
110.82Ayuh, nice window that BleffaTAMARA::EISENBERGAlfred Eisenberg @MKO, VTX/VALU DevelopmentFri Apr 24 1987 17:4016
Bleffa, nice window!

I've got a Bleffa skylight (~40x48") in my dining room.  It's low enough where 
I can operate it by hand.  Hinges on one end for normal operation, and 
hinges in the middle to flip it around for cleaning.  I also have a screen for 
it that fits into the frame on the inside and hinges towards the inside at 
one end, magnets at the other end.  So you just swing open the screen, 
open/close the window, and swing the screen back in place.  Real convenient, 
love it, absolutely no problems.  

I think it was cheaper then the Velux too.

I didn't install it, but I did shingle/flash around it, and it came with a 
flashing kit.

alf
110.105skyligh installation...MAGIC1::TERMINAL10Thu May 21 1987 15:1121
    I would appreciate some advise...
    
    I am planning to install a skylight-type window in my bedroom.
    
    I have looked at several brands...some have better features, some
    seem better constructed...etc.
    
    First, are there any brands I should stay away from?
    
    Second, are there any contractors that install these types of windows
    without:
    
    - having to finish interior ceiling?
    
    - having to purchase the window for you?
    
    By the way, the style I am considering is the "venting" type.  I
    will be able to reach it from the floor, so remote control (rod)
    is not important.
    
    Thanks!
110.106Use the index!!!CLOVAX::MARESThu May 21 1987 16:259
    Directory note 1111.68 lists all skylight-related conferences.
    
    For your convenience, they are notes 136, 172, 173, 788, 1013.
    
    I would recommend the vented Pella with hand crank, screen and
    slim-shade accessories.  Lots of $$$ and quality.
    
    Randy
    
110.6AUTHOR::WELLCOMESteveFri May 22 1987 14:4721
    I've just installed three Roto skylights.  They look very good,
    and have screens, double glazing, and low-E glass standard.  I 
    put them in while reshingling the house, so flashing was no problem.  
    I suspect getting a good flashing job might be a problem if you
    were trying to put skylights in an already-shingled roof.
    The carpenter who was helping me said that he'd been called in
    to fix a number of leaking skylights, and most of them were
    leaking because they were put in wrong.  Use their flashing kit
    and FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS!!!
    
    He said he did have one case of a leaking Roto skylight that didn't
    have quite enough silicone sealer at one spot around the glass.  He 
    gooped on a little more, and that solved the problem.  
    He also said that sometimes he gets a few drips of condensation
    from the skylights in his own house - a dozen drops or so, but it's
    no big deal.
    
    I've only had the skylights in for a week or so, and it hasn't rained
    to speak of, so I can't really judge the Roto skylights based on
    much experience.  However, my initial impression from looking at
    them is of quality, and not quite as many $$$ as, say, Velux.
110.107VENTARAMA is the way to goISBG::POWELLReed Powell - LCG Marketing - 297-4261Sat May 23 1987 21:1530
    I have installed 2 VENTARAMA skylights, both venting, and have a
    third (non-venting) sitting upstairs waiting for the sprit to move
    me.  This is the only brand I have found (and I researched the heck
    out of it) that comes as one piece - flashing installed at the factory.
     i see this a a big plus, although a died in the wool DIY would
    just call me a wimp I guess!  The rod is optional, and makes life
    a lot easier.
    
    The Pella one is also good (all my windows in the addition are Pella),
    but I'd go with the Ventarama for putting into an existing structure.
    
    You can order these through Somerville Lumber, delivery usually
    2-3 weeks.  cost around $300 or so, depending on dimensions.
    Someville in Westboro has the Ventarama Catalog.
    
    Am confused on your contractor question, relative to wanting one
    that doesn't have to do the ceiling finish work. He only does what
    you tell him you want him to do.  Give a lot of thought to doing
    it yourself.  Not that hard.  You can rent a sawzall at places like
    Taylor's for a couple of bucks, and that is the only tool you need
    that you might not already have (the instructions say to use a circular
    saw, but that is only because they want to be able to say you can
    usual regular tools - use the sawzall).  Check the notes .1 refers
    to for more details on how to install them and buld a light well.
    Also look at the Sunshine book on skylights - it spells everything
    out, although it is geared for doing your own flashing, etc.
    
    -reed
    
   
110.83SWSNOD::RPGDOCDennis (the Menace) Ahern 223-5882Mon Jun 01 1987 20:3314
    I installed a couple of Velux windows several years ago when I re-did
    my roof.  Very nice construction and not too difficult to install.
    The velcro screens didn't appeal to me and I've always intended
    to make some sort of screen in a wooden frame that I could fit in
    the opening that hinged somehow to allow access to the window. 
    There's about 7" clearance to the inside ceiling surface which should
    allow leaving the window open enough to get some air.  Are the screens
    mentioned in .1 usable on the middle-hinged Velux?  Or can they
    be retrofitted somehow?

    One tip, if you're installing a Velux, the window goes in upside
    down until it's secured to the hinge, and then pivoted.  Imagine
    trying to figure this out while you're hanging off the roof in a
    harness while someone inside trys to make it fit.  
110.84skylight screensVIDEO::FINGERHUTTue Jun 02 1987 02:3213
    > Are the screens mentioned in .1 usable on the middle-hinged Velux?
    
    No.  They attach to the frame about 1 inch from the glass.  The
    window would have no room to open.
    
    >Can they be retrofitted somehow?
    
    Probably.  The screens have spring loaded pins that go into holes
    on the inside of the frame.  You could make holes in the right
    locations near the inside ceiling surface.  Then you'd have 7"
    clearance to open the window.  Of course the disadvantage is that
    you'd have to remove the screen to open or close the window.
    
110.85Cheesy Velux venetian blindHOMBRE::DIGRAZIASun Jun 14 1987 04:1327
	I'm installing an electric venetion blind on a center-hinge
	Velux.  It's driven by a small low-voltage DC motor powered by
	a little converter.  ($116 at Currier Lumber, Amherst, N.H.)

	The blind is precisely made and ingenious, but delicate.  Dropping
	it 12 feet would probably mean bye-bye.  I think it could be
	sturdier.

	After attaching all the gewgaws and whatnots to the window, I
	decided to test it.  Nothing.  After fiddling with the wires and
	swearing a lot, I had to remove the whole thing from the window
	so I could test the motor.  It worked fine... when I took the
	little cover plate off.  Turns out the (metal) cover plate was
	shorting the terminals where the wires were soldered to the motor's
	brushes.  I had to bend the cover plate to get it to work.

	Interestingly, the installation instructions are all pictures, no
	text, except a multilingual note that the "a" series of pictures is
	for visible wiring, and the "b" is for hidden wires.

	Kudos to the designer of the DC converter, which didn't explode
	after being shorted, though my voltmeter reports 8.5 volts, and
	the label says 4.5.

	A boot to the behind of the beanbrain who designed the motor
	assembly.
110.86High-priced spread.SWSNOD::RPGDOCDennis (the Menace) Ahern 223-5882Mon Jun 15 1987 17:317
    I just finished putting a window shade in a Velux window and was also
    impressed with the fact that no text was needed to accompany the
    step-by-step illustrations.  Considering that the original window
    installation instructions in Danske told me to put butter on the pivot
    point once a year, that's probably just as well. 

    
110.7So now we install them... we think...REMEDY::KOPECThis space is too small for any useful informationMon Jul 20 1987 14:4653
    time to breathe new life into an old note...
    
    OK, so this weekend I'm installing two skylights... first a description
    of the roof:
    
      Cathedral ceiling, outside pitch about 4/12... 2x6 rafters on
      16" centers... inner rafters 2x6, difference in slope between
      the roof and the ceiling is such that the two sets of rafters
      are even at the eaves, and about 1-1/2 feet (center-to-center)
      at the peak. Asphalt shingle roof, which we will be re-roofing
      after the skylights are in.
    
    The skylights are Roto SV15's which rough-in at about 30x48 (e.g.
    cut one rafter). I plan to double-up the roof rafters on each side
    of the skylight, and use double 2x6 headers and footers. Actually,
    most of the roof-side stuff is pretty straightforward...
    
    The problem is the inside set of rafters. First, the two sets of
    rafters begin to overlap at a point about 5 feet up from the wall
    of the room; I had wanted to put the skylights up about 4 feet from
    the wall, but I can't figure out how to do the footers, which will
    end up in this overlap... Somewhat related, the plan is to cut two
    of the inner rafters because the roof rafters (which are the reference
    for all the cuts) nail alongside the ceiling rafters, so I have
    to cut one of the ceiling rafters... does this look OK?:
    
        existing rafter                         existing rafter
    ====================II                 II=====================
    ==============================================================
                               doubler
    
    where II is the double header/footer... the doubler will be as long
    as I can make it, at lease 3 feet each side of the cut...
    
    The more subtle question is: seeing as the ceiling and roof have
    different pitches, how should I do the finish work? Do I
    
    a.) follow the outside pitch, adjusting the positions of the inside
        header/footers to allow to this, or
    b.) follow the inside pitch, allowing the casing of the skylight
        join the sheetrock at a slight angle, or
    c.) follow the worst-case.. this results in a trapezoidal case,
        with the lower wall as in (b) and the upper as in (a).

    IN any of the above cases, how do I fit the sheetrock? except in
    (b), either the inside header/hooters have to be tilted, or I have
    to do some shimming... somehow the idea of tilting the headers doesn't
    sit well with me...
    
    
    As always, looking for some clues... 
    
    ...tek
110.8AUTHOR::WELLCOMESteveMon Jul 20 1987 18:2237
    Re: .7
    I can't quite follow how you have two sets of rafters at different
    pitches if you have a cathedral ceiling, but I'll take your word
    for it....  Anyway, I just installed a skylight in my kitchen, with
    a "normal" (flat) ceiling and an attic above such that I had to build a
    light shaft from the ceiling joists up to the roof rafters, which
    I think is what you are talking about only your ceiling isn't flat.
    I ended up cutting out one roof rafter and two ceiling joists, putting
    in ties between the cut ceiling joists and the roof rafters above,
    with headers, etc. as appropriate.  As for building the light shaft....
    
    I went the slanted-side trapezoid route, and it was/is a *PAIN*.
    With a trapezoid on the bottom and a rectangle on top, framing was
    ALL compound angles.  Maybe an old-time carpenter would know just
    how to do it, but I'm not an old-time carpenter.  I strongly recommend
    making both the top and bottom openings square!!!  In hindsight,
    I'd do it like this:
    1.  Bottom (short) end, make it vertical.  It will end up at an
        angle to the ceiling.
    2.  Top (long) end, make it perpendicular to the roof.  This will
        also end up at an angle to the ceiling.
    3.  Sides, move them out as far as you can (until you come to the next
        ceiling rafter on both sides, suitably adjusted to account for any
        off-center factors you may have.  Make the sides vertical. The
        sides themselves will be trapezoidal in shape, but they will
        be perpendicular to the roof and ceiling.  You will end up with
        little strips of ceiling on either side of the skylight, equal 
        in width to the amount you move the sides out.  

    When I did it, I flared the sides out, so they started at the edges 
    of the skylight on top and sloped out to the maximum I could get on 
    the bottom, and that was just insane.  But I found that making the
    opening larger than the skylight was well worth doing, because it
    let in a lot more light.  You don't have as much "attic" to go through
    as I did, but I think it will still be worth doing.  
    Times like this, I wish we had decent graphics....
    
110.9BOEHM::SEGERthis space intentionally left blankMon Jul 20 1987 20:486
While we're at it, how critical is it to use double rafters if you have a roof
framed with 2X12'?  That's what I'm using and I was planning on using single
rafters on either end.  I would suspect a 2X12 is probably as strong as a double
2X6.

-mark
110.10rafters,headers, and flashing...REMEDY::KOPECThis space is too small for any useful informationTue Jul 21 1987 12:1633
    Well, I picked up the skylights last night and skimmed through the
    instructions... 
        
    1.) They say you only have to double the rafters if you cut two
    or more. the typical installation cuts 1, so typically you don't
    have to double the rafters. This agrees with the Sunset booklet
    I have on Roofing.
    
    2.) (surprise) Yes, you ANGLE the HEADER/FOOTER if you are making
    an angled tunnel to the skylight. I was glad to hear this, because
    I was getting a headache trying to figure out how I'd properly frame
    and sheetrock the tunnel if I didn't angle the headers..
    
    Questions: 
    
    1.) I plan on reroofing as a part of this project; I'll be reroofing
    over the old shingles (please, I've already read the notes that
    tell me to rip off the old roof; this is a conscious decision)...
    should I do the flashing as if I were not going to re-roof, and
    then lay the roof over, or should I lay up the new roof as I go
    and flash to that? The second seems to be a better alternative,
    but it may make it a bear for the person who decides to tear off
    the roof to do the next re-roof in 25 years...
    
    2.) (possibly Roto-specific) If I choose to flash to the new roof,
    should I adjust the hangers out a quarter-inch or so? (if you've
    done a Roto window, you probably understand what I'm talking about..)
    
    3.) (generic roofing question) How do I deal with flashing? If I
    flash to the old roof, I then have the same situation as I have
    around the chimney; the flashing will be down below the shingles.
    Do I just fill in the space with tar?
   
110.11Flashing The sky-lightsLDP::BURKHARTTue Jul 21 1987 12:5211
    	I'm not quite sure you read your instructions correctly or I'm
    not reading your note correctly. But, the Roto's have what's known
    as step flashing and is designed to be put under the roofing material
    on all sides except the bottom. Installation of sky lights of any
    kind normaly require you to cut back the shingles a foot or so large
    than the RO size. 
    	To answer your question: You should always flash to the bare
    roof.
    
    				...Dave
    
110.12need more votes on flashing...REMEDY::KOPECHow did I get myself into this??Tue Jul 21 1987 14:2424
    yup, I understand the step-flashing part... they say to cut back
    the shingles 3/4 of an inch, then carefully remove the shingles
    for a foot on the sides; the top flashing slides in under the top
    shingles, so they don't want you to remove them, and the bottom
    flashing sits on top... you then put them back as you install the
    flashing.. as I see it, the two options are:
    
    1.) do just that, and then roof over the whole mess, glopping tar
    all around everything to keep the flashing from leaking; this leaves
    the lower flashing covered by the new roof, which seems a bit
    strange...
    
    or
    2.) Don't remove the shingles. Put the skylight in, and install
    the new roof with the flashing. This leaves the bottom flashing
    on top of the roof shingles...
    
    .11 was a vote for the first method; any takers for the second?
    (well, actually, my Dad just voted for the second, but he's never
    done a skylight before...)
    
    ...tek

    
110.13AUTHOR::WELLCOMESteveTue Jul 21 1987 15:3419
    My vote is to take off the old shingles and get rid of the problem
    entirely, but you have already vetoed that idea....
    
    I guess I'd vote for going right down to the roof deck.  After
    all, that's the situation you'd have if the skylight had been
    installed when the first layer of shingles had been installed.
    Take off enough shingles so you can pretend you're installing
    flashing and shingles on a completely bare roof (you may want
    to take off a section of old shingles around the skylight, then
    replace them with new ones just to get everything right).  Then
    put down the second layer of new shingles.  On top and sides, the
    new shingles just go over everything, no problem.  On the bottom
    of the skylight, you'll want to slide the new shingles under the
    flashing, same as the old ones are.  BE CAREFUL about gooping
    on too much tar.  If the flashing is done right, you shouldn't
    need it, and it makes a horrible mess to clean up the next time.
    BTW, DON'T nail the flashing to the skylight, it needs to be free
    to slide a little.
    
110.14Easy on the GOOPLDP::BURKHARTTue Jul 21 1987 16:1617
    	Ditto the goop. If you do the flashing right you should not
    need any goop. That's in theory, in reality you might want to use
    a LITTLE to tack the shingles down on the flashing. Use about as
    much as they use on the back of the shingles to SELF SEAL them.
    This just keeps the shingles from lifting and ice getting under
    them.
    	Ditto the bottom flashing. You should not allow this piece under
    the shingles as water flows down hill and will flow under the shingle
    at this point.
    
    	I hade two Roto sky-lights installed in a new addition using
    no caulking and the only trouble I had was where a piece of the
    step flashing did not overlap the one next to it enough.
    
    			Good luck...
    				  ...Dave
    
110.15SPEAKING FROM EXPERIENCESCUBBA::ROBICHAUDWed Jul 22 1987 17:5136
    I HAVE INSTALLED A DOZEN OR SO VELUX SKY LIGHTS AND FEEL THAT IT
    REALY DOSN'T MATTER IF YOU ARE GOING OVER AN OLD ROOF OR NOT. IN
    THE EVENT THAT YOU REROOF IN THE FUTURE YOU WILL HAVE TO REMOVE
    ALL OEF THE FLASHING KIT IN EITHER CASE WHEN YOU STRIP OFF THE
    SHINGLES. ALTHOUGH I DO SUGGEST THAT THE SECTION OF THE ROOF THAT
    IS BEING FITTED WITH THE SKY LIGHTS SHOULD BE STRIPPED BECAUSE A
    DRAW BACK TO INSTALLING OVER AN OLD ROOF IS UNEVENESS AND THE FACT
    THAT YOU WILL BE NAILING THROUGH OLD SHINGLES. WHAT I SUGGEST IF
    YOU ARE SURE YOU DON'T WANT TO STRIP THE ROOF IS TO REMOVE ENOUGH
    OLD SHINGLES TO ACCOMADATE YOU SKY LIGHT MOUNTING HARDWARE, SO THAT
    YOU ARE MOUNTING DIRECTLY TO THE ROOF SHEATHING THEN FILL IN THE
    EXPOSED AREA WITH PIECES OF SHINGLE JUST TO MAKE THE SURFACE EVEN.
    THEN WHEN YOU REROOF INSTALL NEW SHINGLES AND FLASHING AS PER
    DIRECTIONS.
    
    TWO POINTS IF INTEREST:
    
    1. AS I SAID I HAVE USED VELUX SKY LIGHTS AND THEIR FLASHING KITS
    SUPPLY YOU WITH 3/4" NAILS TO BE USED TO TACK THE STEP FLASHING
    TO THE SIDE OF THE SKYLIGHT. AS ALL STEP FLASHING IT SHOULD BE TACKED
    AT THE UPPER MOST CORNER AND SHOULD NEVER BE LEFT TO SLIDE AROUND
    AS IT COULD MOVE OUT OF POSITION AND ALLOW WATER TO GET BUY.
    
    2. A SMALE AMOUNT OF ROOFING CEMENT IS A GOOD IDEA ON THE SKY LIGHT
    SIDE AS WELL AS THE ROOF SIDE OF THE STEP FLASHING. BE CAREFUL AS
    STATED IN PREVIOUS RESPONSES NOT TO USE TO MUCH. APROX. 1/16" THICK
    IS PLEANTY!
    
    
    PLEASE LET US ALL KNOW HOW YOU MAKE OUT.
    
    P.S.	MY EXPERIENCE WITH SKY LIGHTS IS FROM MY PAST EMPLOYMENT
    	AS A REMODELING CONTRACTOR AND AS A CARPENTER FOR A HOME BUILDER
    	IN WINDHAM N.H.
    
    SCOT ROBICHAUD
110.108help with sky light condensationAMULET::TAYLORMon Jan 25 1988 11:5323
    I need some ideas, I have 2 Velux VS-1 sky lights in my new bedroom,
    they have been in the roof for over a year with no problems until
    three days ago when my wife and I moved our furniture in and started
    sleeping in there. every morning there is condensation in the inside
    of the windows and if I don't climb up the ladder and wipe it off
    it will drip into the sheetrock and stain it, closing the venetian
    blinds has not helped, would a window quilt help, or an I going
    to have to leave these things open a little to let them vent the
    excess humidity. this has only happened for the last three days
    like I said, the heat has been on in the room since October with
    no problems until now..
    
    
    I need help fast....
    
    
    i will be calling Velux today to see if they can help.
    
    
    
    
    
    Royce
110.109Just a suggestion to look into...SMURF::WALLACELife's a beach, then you dive!Mon Jan 25 1988 15:2813
    
    	Your note indicates that this bedroom is either new or has been
    remodeled recently.  Since it has only started since you moved your
    furniture in and started living/sleeping(?) in there, perhaps you
    should think about where moisture would be coming from, which would
    end up condensing on the windows.  For example, did you clean the
    carpet or floor before you moved in, clean the furniture, is there
    a bathroom off the bedroom with a shower that you just started using
    when you moved into the room, if the drywall was just recently done
    is it still drying out perhaps, was the room just painted, etc,
    etc,etc.
    	These are all things that would contribute to excess moisture
    in the room, and cause condensation on the window.
110.110SAGE::DERAMOMon Jan 25 1988 15:4017
    I think that you and your wife are the source of the moisture that
    is condensing on your windows. Breathing creates lots of moisture.
    You can confirm whether you're the source by not sleeping in that 
    room some night, and then checking the window for moisture.      
    
    If you *are* the source, try moving your bed away from the window.
    This won't cost you anything.  Otherwise, your idea of a window 
    quilt (preferably the type with tight-sealing edges) would keep 
    the moisture away from the window.
    
    Joe
    
    
    
                                    
                                    
                         
110.111AMULET::TAYLORMon Jan 25 1988 15:4415
    re.1, the carpet is new (1week) the sky lights have been in for
    a year, the sheetrock since this October, the heat since November.
    Even when I was working in the room, this was not a problem. the
    problem has only been for the last three days, since we have been
    living in it, so the only excess moisture is coming from breathing
    and body heat, I have not heard back from Velux yet, but in the
    info that comes with the sky lights, it says to open the sky lights
    slightly a few times a day to get rid of the excess moisture, which
    to me seems like a pain in the neck, I'm going to try to run my
    ceiling fan all night and see if that helps, but that too, should
    not be necessary......
    
    
    
    Royce
110.112Fan might help the symptoms...HPSTEK::EKOKERNAKMon Jan 25 1988 18:0812
    On regular windows, regular shades help keep most of the moisture
    off of my windows.  Other notes in this file will tell you about
    the cause of this: not just moisture hitting the window, but moisture
    rising with the warm air and condensing on a cool surface.  If the
    window is not installed correctly, or does not close up tight, there
    will be ever-so-slight drafts that will cool the inside of the window,
    and cause condensation.  Eliminate the moisture, or seal up the
    drafts.
    
    I use Mortite.
    
    Elaine
110.113AMULET::TAYLORTue Jan 26 1988 12:0616
    I ran my ceiling fan last night on slow, it seemed to help alot,
    but there was still some condensation on the windows this morning,
    
    I have a rep from Velux coming to the house Fri. am. to take a look
    at them, I think tonight, I'll open them for a while and vent the
    room, the guy from Velux said the main thing with sky lights is
    ventiation, which he said means opening up the sky lights a little
    and let the room vent a few times a day.
    
    
    
    I keep you posted....
    
    
    
    Royce
110.114You're not aloneAIMHI::BERNARDTue Jan 26 1988 15:2518
    
    You're not alone. I have the same problem and do indeed open the
    windows at least once a day. It helps a lot. Also for those nights
    that we forget, we just put a rolled up towel at the bottom of the
    window to catch the moisture before it drips onto the ceiling.
    
    One thing that I've found is that if I put a shade or blind in the
    window it actually condenses worse. I think this is because a draft
    forms through the window cover, sort of like a convection radiator,
    and brings more air to the cool window.
    
    I still like the roof windows even though they didn't mention anything
    about condensation when I bought them.
    
    Good luck
    
    JMB
    
110.115Is triple glaze a solution?SAGE::DERAMOTue Jan 26 1988 16:1911
    
    I'm considering finishing my attic and installing skylights. I've
    never heard about this condensation problem before. Should I consider
    triple-glazed windows to avoid it?  Would the extra insulation value 
    be sufficient to prevent the condensation?
    
    I don't think the room would be used for sleeping, but I can't be
    absolutely sure. 
    
    Joe
                                                        
110.116Heat loss through the glass not that badPALMER::PALMERhalf a bubble off plumbTue Jan 26 1988 18:567
    RE .7
    
    	I don't think that triple glazed windows will help at all. 
    As in all windows more cold air leaks in around the window than
    through the glass.  
    
    				=Ralph=
110.117No problems with mineFRSBEE::DEROSABecause A Mind Is A Terrible ThingWed Jan 27 1988 11:069
    I have skylights in my new addition an so far we have had no problem.
    It's a 20x24 family room. The only time we had a problem is for
    a few days after we had it plastered, but that is no suprise. The
    skylights are about 28"x38" and there are two of them and they have
    a 3/4" (at least) air space. I do think skylights should have a
    large airspace or even be triple glaze. But, as was mentioned,they
    should be constructed so not to leak air around the frame.
    
    Bob
110.118AUTHOR::WELLCOMESteve Wellcome (Maynard)Wed Jan 27 1988 12:255
    I've got Rotos with double glazing and "Low E" glass; so far this
    winter, no sign of condensation.  However, I haven't finished
    doing the finish framing around them so there are probably
    plenty of chances for drafts to act as "ventilation" to keep the
    humidity level down.
110.119AMULET::TAYLORWed Jan 27 1988 15:157
    re.9,  the only time I have a problem is over night, I con be in
    the room all day and into the night with no condensation problem,
    it's just overnight.....
    
    
    
    Royce
110.120Cold wood, too!ASD::DIGRAZIAThu Jan 28 1988 01:0122
	I have a Velux in my kitchen.  It's about 28 x 30.  It's placed
	in the roof in line with the sink.  That is, water vapor rising
	from the sink travels straight along the sloped ceiling to the
	window.

	What baffles me is that there is no condensation on the glass.
	The only explanation is that the inner pane is kept warm.  I have
	no idea how.

	We _did_ get some water drops from the framing around the window.
	The woodwork wasn't sealed, and vapor would work its way behind
	the pretty trim molding into the gaps in the framing.  At night,
	it would freeze there.  During the day, the sun would heat up the
	framing and melt the ice, which would then drip back down onto
	the floor, the top of my head, and the dog's back.

	I cured the problem by removing the trim molding, filling every
	gap I could find with that aerosol foam stuff, replacing the trim,
	and caulking like crazy.  No drips this year.

	Regards, Robert.
110.16OPEN OR FIXED SKYLIGHTS?MEMV03::ROGUSKAThu Jul 14 1988 13:0368
I need some opinions regarding fixed/opening skylight windows......

The situation is as follows:

	We have a cape, about 30' x 25', with an addition that is
	approximately 15' x 19'.

The kitchen/dinning room will have a modified(?) cathedral ceiling:

		  -----------------
		 /		   \	the skylights will be on the
    		/		    \	slanted portion of the ceiling.  
   	       /		     \ 
    
    
We had originally planned to put in fixed skylight, now we are wondering
if we should install skylights that will open.  The skylights will be on
the north side of the house.  We have a fan for the ceiling and wondered if
having the windows open and the fan going if we would be better able to 
move the hot air that will collect at the ceiling, hopefully either pushing
it out the windows or pulling in cooler air for the skylights.

The rough opening for the windows is 22-1/2 x 39-1/2,  we would beed
the extension rod in order to be able to reach the windows to open
them.  I have no idea how hard/easy it is to operate skylight by using
the extension rod.    
    
So how about it, should we go for the skylights that open or should
we stick to our original plan and install stationary skylights?  We plan
to put in a built in air conditioner in the back wall, probably somewhere
between the slider and (hoped for)bay window when we get that far.  We are
wondering if by having the windows that open if the need for the air 
conditioner would be less......

Opinions????

I have include a diagram of what the layout will be with windows, doors
etc.  The main reason for the skylights will be for more natural light in
the kitchen area, the slider takes care of the back half of the room.....
all the framing for the windows was done when the shell was built.
    


  N
  |				  picture	front
W---E				  window        door
  |	      5' casement			  
  S            over sink      ----XXXXXXXXXXX----****---------------------
                             |     					|
	--------#####--------|			|			|
       	|                    |			|			|
        |     @@    @@       |		   	|			|
	|     @@    @@       |			|			|
	|		     |			|			|
Back	*		     |			|_________		|
door	*		    						|
	|				      ------------		|
Green-	G				      c	     |			|
house	G				      closet |			|
window	|				      c	     |			|
3'x4'	------SSSSSSSSSS----------XXXXXXX--------------------------------
		   |	             |
		   V		     V
	       8' slider	future bay window
		to deck		 (hopefully!)	


    
110.17I vote for the ones that openPHENIX::HARQUAILEast Boston is Not an AirportFri Jul 15 1988 14:1619
    I just had a skylight that opens put in, WHAT A DIFFERENCE! Definitley
    get the one that opens! You'll be glad. You wnat have to turn your
    AC on half as much. No matter how hard it is to reach. My parents
    put on in a ceiling thats to high to reach and they have an extension
    pole that unlocks and lifts it open, I don't know if it came with
    the window or they bought it seperate, but it works fine.
    	I'm telling you from they amount of heat a skyligh generates
    especially in the summer, it's dumb not to have them open.
    	My is located in a loft  in a peaked roof, and the temperature
    in my apartment has dropped 10 degrees since it was installed.
    Previous to getting it installed, my place was like an oven! And
    I had to sleep in the living room all summer. Now even with the
    recent heatwaves, there has only been 2 nights that were too hot
    to sleep in the loft and that was because there was no breeze!
    Also since I got the opened skylight I've only had to use my AC
    twice! It used to run non-stop. 
    
    Marilyn
110.18Electric skylight operatorsPSTJTT::TABERTouch-sensitive software engineeringMon Jul 18 1988 14:5616
>                                                  ...we would beed
>  the extension rod in order to be able to reach the windows to open
>  them.  I have no idea how hard/easy it is to operate skylight by using
>  the extension rod.    

The rods aren't a great thing. They flex and slip around and sometimes 
scar up the woodwork.  Likewise, you may end up mixing it up with your 
ceiling fan, depending on your layout.

Most skylight makers sell electric operators for their skylights.  They 
run off low voltage (12v) and can be controlled from any conveinient 
location.  They are sometimes coupled with a gizmo that will 
automatically shut the window if it senses water coming in.  As I 
recall, they're a little on the expensive side, but that's a judgement 
call.
					>>>==>PStJTT    
110.19Think ventilationALEX::CONNAlex Conn, ZKOMon Aug 01 1988 20:5319
    If you get Velux, you could get the fixed style that has a ventilation
    flap.  It's not as good as one that actually opens, but much better
    than one that is only fixed glass.    
    
    The Velux TPS model has both the ventilation flap and the ability
    to open.  That way during a steamy rain you still get some ventilation.
    I can't remember if you said you were getting more than one window.
    If so, you could get one TPS that opens and one with just the
    ventilation flap.     
    
    I don't know if Velux makes the automatic closing unit (Anderson does
    for sure).  But having gotten a Velux TPS for one location and a Roto
    SV (similar to Anderson) for the other (and with the recent rain) I
    wish the Roto had been a Velux with the ventilation flap. 
    
    Hope this helps
    
    Alex
    
110.20Wasps love Velux TPSQUARK::LIONELMay you live in interesting timesTue Aug 02 1988 00:096
    A comment about the Velux TPS - it's very easy to have the foam
    insert in the ventilation flap not fit tightly against the outer
    opening, and wasps/hornets just LOVE to build nests inside those
    suckers.  Take it from one who knows....
    
    				Steve
110.21Man, don't you bug me; I got my own bugs tooLDP::BURKHARTMellissa's Proud FatherTue Aug 02 1988 14:229
    
    
    	ditto .21, It seems that there is lots of room for those buggers
    to build nests or just sit around and get warm with these units.
    
    	I like the rotos I got for my new addition much better.
    
    			...Dave
    
110.22Mixed Review on Roto `Galaxy'RUTLND::SATOWThu Aug 04 1988 18:4645
We have a couple of "Galaxy" model 4 x 4s.  There have been some things about 
them that have irritated me.

They were installed properly, by our builder (they were part of an addition
project), but they still leaked, not a lot, but a leak's a leak.  We contacted
Roto, and they took about four months to respond.  When they did come, they
applied more goop, which seemed to fix the leak.  I did once have to climb up 
to clear a bit of ice that had gotten up on the window frame and was leaking 
in, but there have been no other leaks, even in some of the hard, driving 
rains we've had this year.  We weren't there when the rep came -- our builder 
was -- but he said the rep was courteous and thorough.

I think the screens are garbage.  The corners are force fit together, which 
isn't adequate, since, as someone else has reported, you have to open the 
screen to open or close the window.  This weekend, I'm planning on reinforcing 
the corners, which is something I think Roto should have done in the first 
place.  Also, the screen has pulled out of the frame several times.  When our 
builder pointed out the problems with the screens, the rep replaced them, no 
questions asked.  Unfortunately, the replacements have the same problems as 
the originals.

We got shades for the windows.  They are basically custom window shades.  They 
fit inside the window frame, which is a nice feature since you can have the 
window open and still use the shade.  The problem is that, at 90+ bucks 
apiece, I think that they are grossly overpriced.  Also, if they are in a 
cathedral ceiling as ours are, you need to be on a ladder to manipulate them.

Note that the above comments don't necessarily apply to all Roto skylights.  
We bought Rotos based on the recommmendation of our builder, who had always 
had good experiences with them before.  Our builder told us that the Roto rep 
mentioned that they have had a lot of trouble with the "Galaxy" model, and 
that was the reason for the poor response time.  Also, when I was looking for 
the shades, I saw other types of shades that seemed to me to be better 
designed, but they were only for other models of Roto skylights.  Note that 
not all Roto skylights are available in all sizes.

Someone mentioned the problem of manipulating them with the pole.  We haven't 
had any problem with that, other than the screens falling apart.  My eight 
year old daughter can open or close the windows quite easily, except that 
she's a little too short.

Once we get the screens reinforced and get used to using a ladder to manipulate
the shades, I think we'll be happy.  

Clay
110.23MTWAIN::WELLCOMESteve Wellcome (Maynard)Thu Aug 04 1988 19:497
    Re: .23
    I'm not sure which model of ROTO skylights I have, but I've had
    absolutely no problem with them, or the screens.  They've been
    in over a year (three of them) and they haven't leaked a drop.
    With the model I have, you don't have to take the screen out to
    open or close the skylight.  The "Galaxy" model sure sounds like
    a loser, but give other ROTO models a close look; I like mine a lot.
110.24ROTO Sunrise series is a good choicePSTJTT::TABERThe project killerFri Aug 05 1988 13:1613
re: .24

It sounds like you have the ROTO Sunrize series skylights.  I have four 
of them and have only good things to say about them.  I got them on a 
tip from my brother-in-law who is a contractor on the South Shore 
(Boston area.)  He has installed many different models of skylights, and
by comparing call-backs he decided that the Sunrise series was the best.

He got Velux windows for his own house, and is not very happy with
them.  I'm not sure what model from the velux line it is, but he
complains of buggage and leaks as mentioned in previous notes. 

					>>>==>PStJTT
110.25MTWAIN::WELLCOMESteve Wellcome (Maynard)Fri Aug 05 1988 13:249
    "Sunrise" sounds familiar; that's probably it.
    
    One thing on installation: follow the manufacturer's directions
    ***EXACTLY***.  The contractor who helped me install mine has
    gone back and fixed several installations that other contractors
    did, that leaked.  In every case they had done things that they thought
    would be "improvements" in the installation, but they only caused
    problems.  I don't think he's ever had a problem, or seen a problem,
    with an installation done according to ROTO's directions.  
110.26.17 went with Velux opening - updateMEMV02::ROGUSKAMon Sep 12 1988 15:0340
    just a quick update, I asked questions in .17   .....
    
    Well we went with Velux skylights that open.  My husband installed
    them both this weekend.  He was actually glad to have two to install,
    on to learn on and one to do with out butterflies in his stomac
    throughout the process!  The first one was the hardest, mainly because
    he was so nervous about cutting the hole in the roof.  Actually
    thing went very well, but tomorrow will be the final test - rain
    in the forecast!
    
    Just wanted to add that we went with the opening type, I have used
    the extension rod and it is awkward but at least we can open them
    if it gets too hot at the ceiling level.  In the end we decided that
    we would rather have the type that open and never open them than
    have the fixed type and regret it for as long as we live in the
    house.  They are definitely NOT the windows I want to have to close
    at 2AM when hit by an unexpected thunder storm!

    One more thing, I had told Mike about Joet's three tips, 1) use
    the manufacturers flashing kit, 2) buy the manufacturers flashing
    kit, and 3) get the manufacturers flashing kit.  Well we did and
    Mike was very glad of it, he admitted that if he had had to form
    the flashing himself that he would of had a b*%^& of a time doing
    it.  
    
    When I ordered the windows I didn't order the flashing kit and
    remembered about it later when I got home.  I called the lumber
    store to make sure that we could get it and the guy at the lumber
    store told us it was included with the window.  I mention this because
    someone stated in an earlier note that VELUX did not include the
    Flashing kit.  This may very well be a case of the lumber store
    "watching" out for us and assuming we meant to order the flashing
    with the window.
    
    Well tomorrow will tell.......we'll see just how good of a job Mike
    did!
    
    Thanks for the input and the help.
    
    Kathy
110.27TOPDOC::AHERNWhere was George?Tue Sep 20 1988 16:0418
    RE: .27  "Velux"
    
    Unless you are buying a Velux window for a low pitch roof the flashing
    comes with the window.  If you're installing one in a shed type
    roof, or a clay tile roof, then there are different types of flashing
    that are either ordered seperately or come with the window if you
    order that type.  I don't remember which way they do it.
    
    The trick to remember if you are putting one in for the first time
    is that the window itself goes in practically vertical and upside
    down to align with the pivot points, then once the pivot point is
    screwed shut you tilt the window back to its normal, or closed
    position.
    
    The one other piece of advice is to ignore the Danish language
    instructions that tell you to "butter" the pivot points.  Use a
    lithium grease instead.  It's lower in cholesterol.
    
110.87Skylight Quilts?DEBIT::LAVASHSame as it ever was...Mon Dec 12 1988 19:218
RE: .16

    I am looking for a shade or a quilt for my skylights to reduce heat loss
    in the winter.  Where did you get yours?

    I am located in the Nashua area, if anyone else has a good recommendation.

    George
110.88What Brand?RICKS::SATOWMon Dec 12 1988 19:496
    You might try the place where you go t the skylights.  Many brands
    of skylights have a line of accessorites.  I've never seen quilts,
    but we got shades for our Rotos a a place hat handles the skylights.  
    They work fine, but they are extremly overpriced.
    
    Clay
110.89I didn't install them...BROKE::LAVASHSame as it ever was...Tue Dec 13 1988 00:127
    I've got Velux skylights, but I didn't put them in, the builder did.
    
    Just looking for suggested sources in NH.  

    Thanks,

    George
110.90Velux makes shades for their skylights...STAR::RUBINOTue Dec 13 1988 11:1812
    re .17
    
    George:
    
    We got shades for our Velux skylights. You can pick them out of
    a Velux catalog and Grossmans (S. Nashua) can order them for
    you. They run about $30 to $60 per skylight. They were effective
    in screening light, and somewhat effective in retaining heat, but
    they are nothing like a window quilt. I've never seen anything like
    a window quilt for a skylight. 
    
    mike    
110.64Vacant house leaks, Occupied house doesn'tCSC32::S_LEDOUXSpecialization is for insects.Wed Feb 08 1989 14:3223
The house we bought has 6 huge skylights - more like windows, they're
3' x 6', that we knew were leaky when we bought the place.  The leakage
was pretty obvious because you could see the streaks on the framing &
wall where water had evidently run down them in streams.  Now, after
living there a couple months and waiting to see the leaks (and NOT seeing
them) I'm starting to wonder.  This house has been vacant for a year -
possibly through two winters.  

Is it possible that the rain/snow load on an unheated house over a long 
period of time would cause some leakage but that living in this house
and keeping it warm would prevent the leaks ????  In the past two weeks
we've had a plentiful variety of weather.  Saturday we got a foot of
snow, the following Wednesday it hit 70 degrees, the following week we
averaged 10-25 degrees BELOW ZERO, and now its warming up again.  I still
haven't seen any evidence of recent leakage.

Before I cough up the big bucks to fix something that may not need fixing
I'd just like to gather any info available.

Thoughts/comments/suggestions ????

Thanks.
Scott.
110.65Where?GKAPS::REINSCHMIDTMarlene, DLB12-2/D8, DTN 291-8114Wed Feb 08 1989 15:277
    Scott,
    
    Where are you that you're experiencing such weather extremes?
    
    Just curious
    	
    	Marlene
110.669,300' up in the rockies...CSC32::S_LEDOUXSpecialization is for insects.Wed Feb 08 1989 15:446
>    Where are you that you're experiencing such weather extremes?
    
	In the rockies.  Divide Colorado, Elevation 9,300 feet.
	Weird weather up there....:-)
	
	Scott.
110.67Not a leak--just a cloudburst!SALEM::M_TAYLORI drink alone...Care to join me?Wed Feb 08 1989 15:4917
    Scott,
    
    I've noticed that same evidence of leakage on my skylight. Ya know
    what causes it? Condensation. Just crank up a humidifier to the
    point where the skylight starts to fog up, and, it will begin to
    run down the "box" that leads out to your ceiling and dry up within
    12-24", depending upon the complex problem of how warm your house
    is, how well insulated the ceiling is, how cold the window is, and
    how humid the air is, and what the pitch of the ceiling is...
    
    It's all just a matter of watching your humidity levels and adjusting
    them according to the outside weather. The colder the weather, the
    less humidity you can safely maintain indoors.
    
    PS: Are you the former TWO employee?
    
    Mike (former TWO Field Service)
110.68There's only one of me -- most of the time...CSC32::S_LEDOUXSpecialization is for insects.Wed Feb 08 1989 16:5719
	Thanks, Mike.  There's not much humidity where I am (joggers
	don't even sweat! :-)) but I admit I don't have a clue as to
	how all those factors you mentioned interact.  Maybe I should
	just fix the paint/sheetrock and see what happens and if it
	still leaks, THEN fix the sky-windows...
	
>    PS: Are you the former TWO employee?

	Actually, there's just one of me :-)...But yeah, I worked in
	TWO from 79 to 83 before moving on...I have vague recollections
	of you, tg, doob, et al.  Small world isn't it...
	
	Based on the above, I assume I should just remove the bad sheetrock
	and put some new stuff up and paint it and see what happens.
	
	Good info out here.  Any more ?
	
	Thanks.
	Scott.
110.69NETMAN::SEGERthis space intentionally left blankWed Feb 08 1989 18:4715
There are a couple of places a skylight can leak and before attempting a repair
I suggest you determine which kind of leak you have:

	o	the seal where the skylight opens/closes

	o	around the framing

In the first case all you may need to do is replace a rubber seal whereas in the
second case you may have to repair/replace the flashing.

How to figure it out?   What I've done is stand on the roof with a hose and 
blast the skylight, first on the seal and then on the flashing.  based on the
results, you can plan from there.

-mark
110.91Acrylic bubble skylightHOCUS::KCARPENTERWed Apr 05 1989 14:017
    Just in case anyone is still reading this note...I have a question.
    
    Has anyone installed an acrylic bubble skylight that has no framing
    or flashing, just acrylic?  This is a self-flashing unit that
    supposedly just needs to be nailed to the roof under the shingles.
    
    It seems almost too simple to work.  Any comments?
110.92pay for what you getBOSTON::SWISTJim Swist BXO 224-1699Wed Apr 05 1989 14:3515
    Yes, it's a good cheapo solution for porches and the like, but you
    probably don't want them inside.
    
    You have to do your own casing, flashing, etc, which may or may
    not be something you feel like doing.
    
    Regular skylights have channels on the inside to catch condensation
    and let it evaporate harmlessly rather than run into the inside
    of the house.  Without such a design, you better stick with places
    where there isn't much heat differential between inside and outside.
    Besides, the insulating properties are suspect.
    
    The other problem is that acrylic is a lot softer than glass.  After
    several years of rain driven grit, falling leaves, etc, you will
    notice scratches and general wear.
110.93plastic bubbles? no!AKOV13::WILLIAMSWed Apr 05 1989 18:0315
    	All the houses in my neighborhood with vaulted ceilings in the
    family room were built with these plastic bubble 'skylights' and
    all leaked badly after a few years (3 to 6).  I just replaced the
    plastic bubble with a prpoper skylight last summer and, in talking
    with various people 'in the business' was told the plastic bubbles
    will, in all probability, not last more than a few years without
    constant attention (re cememnting, etc.).
    
    	Other plastic bubble 'skylights' negatives:
    
    		.  they yellow rather quickly
    
    		.  difficult to clean
    
    Douglas
110.94Worked well for me..TROA01::PONEILLPeter O'Neill DTN 631-7093Wed Apr 05 1989 18:2727
    I installed a 24" X 48"self flashing unit a few years ago in my last
    house, can't remember the brand but it was very easy to install, it was
    a good quality unit, it cost me about $400.00 (CAN)
    
     I worked from the inside, cutting the drywall and then building a
    light tunnel up to the plywood roof. I hammered in 4 nails in each
    corner where I wanted the hole to be, the nails went right 
    through the shingles.                             
                                                              
    I pulled off the required shingles and felt and cut a hole based
    on the 4 nail holes. I set the skylight on top of roofing cement
    and used #6 screw to hold it down. I then used the left over shingles
    to shingle around the skylight.                           
                                                              
    I got the garden hose and forced water in all directions at the
    skylight while having someone in the attic looking for leaks. its
    been two years and it has never leaked, I don't even get condensation
    on it in the winter, (although I don't humidify the house)                                
                              
                              
    Good luck..
    
    
    Peter,
    Toronto, Ont
    
    
110.95BOSTON::SWISTJim Swist BXO 224-1699Thu Apr 06 1989 16:308
    re .-1 You sure you're talking about the same thing?
    
    $400 sounds like the price for a REAL 2'x4' skylight.  The acrylic
    ones under discussion are usually much cheaper.
    
    I repeat what I said earlier.  I think they're OK for limited uses
    like porches with no temperature differential and less stringent
    leakage and cleanliness requirements.
110.96no it's acrylic...TROA02::PONEILLPeter O'Neill DTN 631-7093Thu Apr 06 1989 16:4518
    re .25 Yes it's an acrylic double bubble skylight. ie a vacumm between
    layers             
                       
    It has not yellowed, I clean it once a year, and it has never leaked...
                       
    I live in Toronto Canada where the temperature between the
    outside and inside can be 50 to 80 degrees F, as I said before,
    I don't even get any condinsation on it.
                       
    I can't comment on scratching, there are no trees or anything near
    it.                
                       
    I remember the manufacture's name was "slimlite-skydomes" 
                                                              
                                                              
    Peter                                                     
                                                              
                                                              
110.121shades, blinds for skylightICHI::HOWARDWed Aug 02 1989 14:487
I have a room with 3 skylights. I want to be able to control the light with
shades or blinds that will fuction in the nearly horizontal position.

Anyone know of a source or a design that I could fabricate from something
standard.

Bob
110.122-> 101356733::DCLDavid LarrickWed Aug 02 1989 15:417
    There's some relevant discussion in 1013.15 to .20.
    
    Let's keep additional discussion of skylight coverings here.  1013 is
    already pretty scizophrenic, touching on several different skylight-
    related matters.
    
    				DCL, moderator
110.123a few ideas...28922::B_RAMSEYonly in a Jeep...Wed Aug 02 1989 16:0227
    Wendy's, a hamburger food chain, has large atrium window rooms on
    many of their restaurants.  The windows have movable shades made
    of a flexible material that runs on tracks beside the windows. 
    They can raise and lower the shade to cover none->part->all of the
    exposed glass.  You might check with the store manager to see if
    he can put you in touch with the facilities manager of the chain
    in your area.
    
    I have noticed in the ads of some of the building magazines, Fine
    Homebuilding, for deluxe skylights which have screens and tilt and
    raise and open and etc.  They also mention that they carry quilts
    for the skylights.  You might contact the manufacturer of your
    skylights to see if they have any "options" for your skylights.
    
    To make your own, levelor makes mounting brackets for the bottom
    of their mini-blinds so that they can be mounted on a door and not
    swing around so much.  You could mount regular mini-blinds and stretch
    them taut between the top and bottom mounting brackets and allow
    the adjustment rod to hang down into the room to adjust the open/close
    angle of the blinds.  
    
    Usually the bottom mounting brackets are included in the normal package
    and need not be purchased separately.  If you go this route and do not
    get the bottom brackets or cannot find them in your area, drop me a
    line and I will send you the ones I am not using on my windows
    (assuming I can find them).
    
110.124VELUX can do39602::DICASTROweed it and reapWed Aug 02 1989 18:467
    Velux makes skylight/roofwindow blinds and shades. I have several of
    their roof window w/ motorized blinds (windows are motorized as well)
    They operate from wall switches. The newer version (this year) have
    a control panel which mounts on the wall. They have many sizes
    available.
    
    good luck/bob
110.125Velux shades57028::FINGERHUTWed Aug 02 1989 19:134
    I have Velux shades.  They work fine in the horizontal position.
    The shade is pulled down and the cord wraps around something at the
    bottom.  They don't just hang there like on vertical windows.
    
110.126regular shade with peg and hole...IAMOK::ALFORDI'd rather be fishingWed Aug 02 1989 19:296
    My skylight has a shade which is "pegged" at the bottom...when the
    shade is pulled down the peg fits into a hole in the frame of the
    window.  Seems like an easy thing (and cheap!) to do...
    
    deb
    
110.127FIVER::TAYLORFri Aug 04 1989 14:178
    I also have the blinds on my Velux skylights, mine are controlled
    by the rod that I use to open the windows, which you connect to
    a knob bolted to the screen that has a flexible rod going into the
    blind mechanism....
    
    
    
    Royce 
110.128Duette'sHKFINN::GALLAGHERFri Aug 04 1989 19:3818
    
    I also have the Velux shades; they work well (functionally) but
    don't offer much in choice of colors designs. etc...
    
    A much nicer product for the money is made by an outfit called Duete.
    Basically anything you can get in a mini or a micro blind you can
    get from these folks. They operate with their own pole, or if you
    already use a pole, you can get the shade made with a mating connector.
    This is nice, since I have a couple of Velux TPS2s, and a couple
    of VS4s.  They all are operated with one pole, and the last thing
    I really need is another pole.  The electric controls that you mount
    on the wall don't exactly thrill me; I can think of better gadgets
    to spend my money on.  Of course my skylights are on a shallow pitched
    roof, so the reach isn't too bad.
    
    Duette's seem to be available in many window treatment and interior
    design stores.  They advertise frequently in the Boston Sunday Globe
    Magazine.
110.142Like skylight, but there're trussesBORNEO::SOOFri Jan 12 1990 17:0417
    
    I'm thinking of putting skylightings into my house.  The only
    problem is the roof is held up by a truss system.
    
    All the DIY books I've seen on skylights always assume a "normal"
    rafter.  Does this mean that I cannot consider putting a skylight
    if it means cutting a roof rafter?  If this is so, I might have 
    to come up with some creative scheme of incorporating the truss
    into the lightwell, and make it into a "feature".  The trusses are
    about 18" apart
    
    I read through the notes on skylights.  Everyone also seem to have
    regular rafters for their roofs.
    
    Can anyone offer some advise?
            
    -Phil
110.143Sure, skylight with trussesSALEM::HOMon Jan 15 1990 15:286
    You can put skylights between the trusses. If the skylight is wider
    the recommended span between the trusses talk with the truss manuf.
    You might have to put double trusses on each side of the window.
    However, at NO time should the trusses be altered (cut, modified).
    
     
110.144BORNEO::SOOMon Jan 15 1990 17:1323
    
    I thought about putting skylights between the trusses.  And
    then, simply create a large lightshaft, exposing some of the 
    trusses.  I'll then pretty up the exposes trusses.
    
    But then, I'm not sure I can get skylights narrow enough to fit
    in between the trusses.  I live in NC and the stores that carry
    skylights normally stock in widths of 22.5" and up.  I supposed
    I can always ask about special orders.
    
    These larger ones will span more than the space between 2 trusses.
    Say, a skylight that's 30" (pull out a convenient number).  This
    will span 2 spaces with one truss in the middle.  Will cutting 
    the rafter held up by this truss constitute modifying the truss and
    hence be a real no-no?
    
    Can I also have a light shaft that's larger than the skylight opening
    itself?  And I do not mean flanging.  But literally have the point 
    the light shaft contact the roof be some distance from the skylight.
    Why would I want to do this?  I want to create enough space up there
    to grow plants.  Yup, I know.  It's crazy.  
    
    Phil
110.145Ask the ManufSALEM::HOTue Jan 16 1990 14:2316
    I don't know what the spec on your trusses and can't commend on
    what you can do. What I can tell you is what I did after I consulted
    the truss manufacturer. You best bet is to call your truss manuf.
    
    My roof is constructed of siccor (sp) truss spanning 26 feet. The
    spec. called for the trusses to be placed 2 feet O.C. The sky light
    that I got from regular order is 37". After I talked with the Truss
    manufacturer I put the sky light in the following way:
    
    Two truss - sky light - two truss - regular 24" O.C. truss.
    
     |	||space  ||  |  |  |   | - Truss spec called for 2' O.C.
     |  || for   ||  |  |  |
     |  ||window ||  |  |  |
                                                                
    
110.97Roto? Velux? or Andersen perferred?DNEAST::BRIDGHAM_JANTue Jun 12 1990 17:0810
    Can anyone offer opinions or experience on recent models of roof
    windows?  I have heard both good and bad things about Roto, Velux,
    and Andersen.  What should I get??  
    
    The roof windows will go on a 12/12 pitch roof that is on the West
    side.  This house is being built in Maine and will get moderate to
    above average wind and rain.  I am more concerned about quality than
    price.
    
    Jane 
110.98I like VELUXCSCMA::LEMIEUXTue Jun 12 1990 17:535
    
    	I am very happy with the two Velux I have. North side roof,
    12/12 pitch. they have been there for 5 years, no problems.
    
    
110.99DICKNS::WELLCOMESteve Wellcome (Maynard)Wed Jun 13 1990 12:352
    I put in three Roto skylights about 3 years ago.  No problems at all.
    I like them a lot, would get them again, no question.
110.146Window tint for skylights?FRSBEE::DEROSAMassachusetts Miracle......?Wed Jul 18 1990 23:4724
    
    I did a dir/title and a search using "skylights" and found no
    answer to my question. But feel free, Mr moderator, to move this
    note.
    
    I built an addition to my house with cathederal ceilings and skylights
    (roof windows). My mistake was not to use low E or some kind of
    tinted or smoked glass for the insulating glass units, resulting
    in a very warm room in summer. I installed blinds to block out the
    UV's and it helped. My question is, can I get some kind of window
    tint kit or covering to put on the outside that will stand up to
    weather? I was told that to put such a kit on the inside pane of
    glass would result in a tremendous heat build up in between the
    panes of glass. I know that I could replace the insulating glass
    units with the proper glass but that's a last resort. The skylights
    do open and that helps but it makes the air cond. work overtime.
    I almost wish I never put skylights in.
    Anybody run into this?
    Thanks in advance
    Bob >>>>>>><^
    
    
    
    
110.147What make are your skylights?BPOV02::RIDGETrouble w/you is the trouble w/meThu Jul 19 1990 20:5410
    I believe there is a solar screen that is put on the outside of the
    skylight. It diffuses some of the sun's rays before they enter the
    house. I own two skylights but neither has the screen. As I remember
    when I looked into the screens they were very expensive, and my two are
    shadded from around noon on. I could be wrong about the outside
    mounting. If you can get a hold of the Velux catalog it lists all the
    extra's that are made for their windows. 
    
    You should contact the manufacturer of your skylights for one of their
    catalogs.  
110.1483M tint uses water to stick to plastic skylight.CLOSUS::HOEDaddy, let's go camping!Fri Jul 20 1990 21:075
my sister had some folks come out and installed a 3M brand
mylar gold tinted sun reflector over the skylight in their
kitchen. They live in Ottawa Canada.

cal
110.28Skylight questionHPSTEK::RITCHIEElaine Kokernak RitchieThu Mar 21 1991 19:304
    How noisy are skylights?  Do you hear the rains and hails pounding on
    them?  Does the skylight in your bedroom keep you up at night?
    
    Elaine
110.29TOKLAS::feldmanLarix decidua, var. decifyThu Mar 21 1991 21:3816
I'm bothered more by the lights from cars driving bar, which somehow manage
to enter the skylight and shine on the ceiling, than by any noise.  Of course,
the light could be fixed if I dragged myself out of bed and pulled the blind on
the skylight.

I find the sound of rain relaxing, so perhaps I'm a poor judge, but I think
we hear more noise from water on the deck (outside and below the bedroom
winodws opposite the skylight) or from water hitting the metal roof vents
than from the skylights.

Slope probably has something to with it.  Ours are on a roof sloped at about
11/12 or 12/12, so it's fairly steep.

The bottom line is that I like them.

   Gary
110.302 cents7461::LADEROUTEFri Mar 22 1991 13:575
    I like to hear the rain on the skylight !
    
    I have a 3' by 5' skylight in my master bedroom. It makes a great
    alarm clock ! But definitly invest in blinds for when you want to sleep
    past daybreak !
110.312 centsGIAMEM::RIDGEHow can I miss U if U wont go away?Wed Mar 27 1991 15:067
    I have a skylight on the sunny side of the house in the bedroom in 
    a cottage on the cape. One of my future projects is to take it out.
    It wakes you up much too early, esp when on vacation. It also adds heat
    to the room. I keep the shade drawn 99% of the time.
    
    I have two skylights in my family room at home, and they are a nice
    feature.
110.32They do add a lot of light to the rooms....DECWET::METZGEROh No, I've said too much...Thu Mar 28 1991 22:4410
We've got 2 skylights in the Family room, 1 in the downstairs bathroom and
1 in the upstairs bathroom. They add a lot of light to the bathrooms and I
Like hearing the sound of the rain hitting them in the family room.

I doubt I'd consider putting one in a bedroom unless it was in a dormer 
type situation.


John
110.33DripsBOSOX::GAGERSwap read error-lost my mindFri Mar 29 1991 11:518
    RE: 136.33 by DECWET::METZGER
    
     By having skylights in your bathrooms, do you have much problem
    with condensation forming on the glass ???   My experience with just
    having regular windows in bathrooms has always been problems with
    condensation rotting the window frames/sills.  My current residence
    has no windows in the bathroom and IMHO thats easiest way to
    prevent rot on windows 8^)
110.34pros and cons of bedroom skylightsRGB::SEILERLarry SeilerFri Mar 29 1991 16:0325
I have a skylight in my bedroom and like it a lot.  However, some caveats:

1)  I have small kids, so I would wake up with the sun regardless of whether
the skylight were there (we've convinced them not to wake us until there is
light in the sky, but that's as far as we've gotten).

2)  I have a cape house, and my bedroom only has windows on one side of the 
room.  It is *very* nice to have windows on two sides of any room -- it
lights the room much more evenly, fewer shadows in corners, etc.  The
skylight accomplishes this without the greater expense of a dormer window.

3)  I can hear the rain on my skylight, but its not much louder than the
rain on my cape roof -- since it's a cape, the roof is less than a foot
above the ceiling of the room over most of the ceiling.  I don't mind it.

Finally, I like seeing the stars & sky, and a skylight is the only way to 
do so from within my house.  I'm considering adding a skylight to light my
inside stairwell -- the amount of electricity saved won't be that great,
I want to do it because I like natural light.

	Enjoy,
	Larry

PS -- I'd rather have rotting bathroom windows than none, which is what
I've currently got.  I don't like being out of sight of the outdoors!
110.35VMSDEV::HAMMONDCharlie Hammond -- ZKO3-04/S23 -- dtn 381-2684Fri Mar 29 1991 18:1921
RE: << Note 136.34 by BOSOX::GAGER
    
>     By having skylights in your bathrooms, do you have much problem
>    with condensation forming on the glass ???   My experience with just
>    having regular windows in bathrooms has always been problems with
>    condensation rotting the window frames/sills.  My current residence
>    has no windows in the bathroom and IMHO thats easiest way to
>    prevent rot on windows 8^)

      If  "no windows" means "no ventilation" you are not preventing rot
      -- you're just hiding it in the walls and ceiling!  The  only  way
      to  prevent rot is a damp area such as a bathroom is to ventilate,
      either with an exhaustfan or with a heat exchanger.
      
      We have two bathrooms with skylights. The bathrooms have cathedral
      ceilings that range from ~6 to 12 feet high.   We  also  have  two
      through-the-wall  heat exchangers in the wall above the tub/shower
      (which is an outside wall).  Yes, the skylights (and the  mirrors,
      too)  get  steamed  up, but there is no dripping, and after nearly
      six years there is no water marking or other evidence of  any  rot
      possibilities.
110.36DECXPS::GAGERSwap read error-lost my mindMon Apr 01 1991 11:477
    RE: 136.36 by VMSDEV::HAMMOND
    
     With regard to ventilation...you hit the nail on the head.  My current
    bathroom has the exhaust fan in the ceiling and a muffin fan in the top
    of doorway to assist.  Previous residences were rented and had no
    exhaust fan... It's great being a homeowner and doing what you want !
                                                    
110.37DECWET::METZGERThat's me in the spot.....light....Tue Apr 02 1991 16:579
Our house is 6 years old, but we've only been in it for 5 months. There is a 
little condensation on the skylights after a long shower but never any dripping.

The vent fan does a great job in removing the moisture plus the fact that the
door always has to stay open a bit for the cats to come in and check out who is
currently in the shower !

John
110.38can I borrow 10,000 for a deck?SNAX::HURWITZTue Apr 30 1991 01:4225
    Question:  Can a skylight be put into a house with no cathedral
    ceilings?  I remember in the past seeing something of a tunnel type of
    thing where there was a sheetrock square tunnel to get the light into
    the room.  I have a dark house and would like to get some extra light
    in to the master bedroom and kitchen.  The house is a Ranch style with
    a (?) truss roof.  I'm only 9months into being a homeowner so I'm not
    sure on that one,  but I remember the house inspector saying that ANY
    interior wall could potentially be removed because there are no inside
    load bearing walls.  This he said was because it has a truss roof.
    
    Has anyone done this (the skylight and tunnel-down-to-room approach)?
    I was thinking of skylights that would run 4 studs wide exposing 2 in
    the ceiling and then boxing them in to look like 2 4x4 beams.  I don't
    think that those 2 exposed rafters could be removed (? weaken the roof)
    
    The master bedroom has 2 regular windows now, on adjacent walls and the
    kitchen has 2 windows side by side on one wall.  Just need to get more
    natural light into these rooms.  (Actually I'd love to build a deck
    spanning the entire back of the house and have a slider in the kitchen
    and bedroom out onto this deck.  Now that would let some light in!)
    
    I don't know.......just an idea.........
    
    Steve....
                                                     
110.39CECV03::BEANAttila the Hun was a LIBERAL!Tue Apr 30 1991 11:2748
    yes, it can be done, and is not uncommon.  i know several folks who
    have done it.
    
    if you cut any rafters, you very definitely should not remove the
    remaining peices.  instead, but them up to a header (use the pieces you
    cut out for this.  I'd suggest you use rafter hangers to join them, but
    that's up to you.  then you should double up on the two outside
    rafters.  what you are doing is using the headers to transfer the load
    above and below the skylite to the two outside rafters, and you must
    strengthen them.  it's not all that difficult.  
    
    _____________________________ridge beam__________________________________
    		|	||	|	|	||	|
    rafters-->	|	||	|	|	||	|
    		~	~~	~	~	~~	~
    		~	~~	~	~	~~	~
    		|	||	|	|	||	|
    double'd rafter --> ||	|	|	||	|
    		|	||	|	|	||	|
    		|	||----------------------||	|
    		|	||	    ^		||	|
    		|	||	header		||	|
    		|	||			||	|
    		~	~~			~~	~
    		|	||			||	|
    		|	||			||	|
    		|	||______________________||	|
    		|	||	|	|	||	|
    		|	||	|	|	||	|
    		|	||	|	|	||	|
    ------------------------------wall-------------------------------
    
    then, install your skylight, and frame in the "box".  
    
    you will probably have to use headers and doubled ceiling joists as
    well.  I's suggest you try to do all the ceiling work (cutting the
    joists, installing the headers, framing the box BEFORE you cut thru the
    ceiling... may not be possible, but, it will sure keep your house
    cleaner.
    
    then cut the ceiling, and finish the inside of the box from below.
    
    there are lots of books in local libraries which can help with
    pictorials.
    
    good luck
    
    tony
110.40Check with building inspectorODIXIE::RAMSEYPut the Environment FirstTue Apr 30 1991 13:577
    Give a call to your local building inspector before you cut any rafters
    if you have  truss roof.  Truss roof systems work on the theory that
    it is a single unit, not a series of individual parts.  Any part fails
    or is cut, and the whole unit can fail.  
    
    You can add skylights to a truss roof but you need to have someone
    knowledgable in designing truss roofs help you keep the roof in tact.
110.41KAHALA::FULTZED FULTZTue Apr 30 1991 14:2512
Also, I would think out what you ultimately want to see (removed walls, added
doors, etc.) and work towards that.  My wife and I studied, talked, and 
analyzed for a couple of months, constantly considering the long-term effects
of what we did.  Finally, we felt comfortable to proceed with the project.  We
are just finishing the living room project.  We removed 2 walls, added 2 beams,
added a 6-foot Anderson Frenchwood slider.  This made a big difference to the
room.

You might end up working symptoms, rather than curing the disease (possibly
remove walls or something else?).

Ed..
110.42DICKNS::WELLCOMESteve Wellcome (Maynard)Wed May 01 1991 13:1714
    re: .39, etc.
    
    Yes, it can be done.  I did it in my kitchen, although I had to deal 
    with regular rafters and joists.  The trusses may make it more 
    complicated, as noted.  A talk with the building inspector ought
    to be free, and he should be able to tell you what you might need
    to do to reframe the trusses.  Take a look, make a sketch of what
    you've got, and go see him.
    
    I'd encourage you to flare the tunnel to some degree, although I
    would also avoid compound angles; figuring out the framing becomes
    a nightmare (guess how I know).  I'd make the sides of the tunnel
    vertical and the opening  wider than the skylight itself, and tilt 
    the front and back of the tunnel to open up the bottom of it.
110.43Consider larger windows.SALEM::LAYTONWed May 01 1991 14:029
    It may be more cost effective to consider the sliding or patio door, or
    even just larger windows, especially taller windows.  For what you pay
    for two skylites, you can buy a 6' patio door of average quality.  
    
    You can read the rest of this file for the pros and cons of skylites. 
    I'm neither for nor against them, but some problems are better solved
    using the other alternatives.  
    
    Carl
110.44SNAX::HURWITZWed May 01 1991 22:0027
    RE: last few
    
    Thanks for the advice.
    
    While reading the replies I was thinking of the posibilities of roof
    problems,  the actual amount of additional light from a couple
    skylights and the ultimate cost effectiveness of my situation and the
    future.  As I stated in my earlier reply, IF I had the money for a full
    length deck I would put one in with a slider in the kitchen and bedroom
    onto it.  I feel the amount of light entered into these 2 rooms with the
    6'x6' sliders would seemingly surpass a couple of skylights in each
    rooms ceiling.  
    
    The problem was money.  But what I just came up with in
    the last couple of minutes was to possibly have a slider put into the
    kitchen now (replacing the exsisting windowless back door onto back
    stairs).  Then when the budget permits install a slider into the bedroom 
    and a simple stairway down to the back yard from it.  Then when the budget 
    again permits, have the 2 stairways removed and the raised deck installed.
    (I'll probably do the deck myself.....)
    
    I didn't really like the picture in my mind of a non-cathedral ceiling
    skylight.  And like previously mentioned, for the $$ for the 2 or 3
    skylights I could probably get a decent slider.  I'll leave the roof
    alone for now.....
    
    thanks again,  Steve.......................
110.129Solorflex material?35986::GRILLOJJohn Grillo @ DecusFri May 31 1991 13:009
    I have two fixed skylights in a "florida type" poarch that is enclosed
    by 6 glass sliding doors. It is great in the winter but gets too hot in
    the summer. The shades or blinds will cost me a fortune (they are giant
    skylights) I was brousing around the local H-Q store yesterday and they
    have rolls of Solorflex in different colors that is supposed to keep
    the heat out and provide some shade. Has anyone used this stuff? Could
    put it up somhow from the outside and find a way to wrap it around the
    skylight. Any suggestions?
    
110.155DIY low-tech porch skylightsXANADU::RECKARDJon Reckard, 381-0878, ZKO3-2/T63Wed Jun 05 1991 14:4910
    We're planning an uninsulated attached three-season porch.  It'll have
    a normal peaked roof (12 pitch? - kinda steep), with rafters exposed
    (no ceiling), gable-end vent (and maybe ridge vent too).  We'd like
    something like skylights, but we don't need them to open - ventilation
    would be provided by the vent(s) and plenty of screened windows.

    One thought has been just to lay some sturdy glass over a hole between
    the roof rafters (16" on center) and caulk/shingle thoroughly around it.

    Has anyone tried this?  Does anyone foresee any problems with this?
110.156VERGA::WELLCOMESteve Wellcome (Maynard)Wed Jun 05 1991 15:4415
    Sure it's been done.  It works.  It was popular (sort of) back
    in the '60s with cheap owner-built houses.  I've seen it described
    in a book, possibly Rex Roberts' books on the engineered house
    (or whatever he called it).
    
    Having seen some of these, I'm not terribly impressed by the
    appearance.  It's hard to do a rational job of flashing the sides.
    With silicone sealer, one could *probably* just set the glass on
    top of the shingles, embedding it in silicone, with only the
    shingles along the top edge of the glass overlapping it.  More
    typically, the ones I've seen have had the shingles overlapping
    the glass on the sides as well as along the top, but it's hard to
    get the shingles to lie flat.  You could probably use silicone to
    bond the overlapping shingles to the glass, setting some kind of
    weight on top to hold the shingles down until the silicone cured.
110.157Non-Opening Plexiglas Sky-litesZENDIA::CHASEBruce Chase, Suffering thru MASS hysteriaWed Jun 05 1991 16:3715
	We have a "shed-roof" style deck/porch off the western exposure
	of our house and wanted to let more light in because it was darkening 
	our kitchen.

	Initially the builder just installed the plexiglas directly on the 
	roof with silicone sealer as mentioned previously.  This lasted about
	a month after being exposed to hot (expansion) days and cool (contraction)
	nights before it started to leak.  He came back and was forced to box 
	them in in a fashion that would accommodate this expansion and 
	contraction of the roof.

	Some day (given the necessary $$$) I hope to replace these with
	"real" sky-lights...... 

					Bruce
110.130Me tooGIAMEM::RIDGEHow can I miss U if U wont go away?Thu Jun 06 1991 18:558
    I have the same situation. I often thought of building a frame, like 
    a screen frame, to put on the outside of the skylight. Not sure how to
    attach it to the skylight. I wouldn't care if it stayed up all winter
    so maybe I could use some kind of adhesive.
    
    I never found a suitable material though. It would need to let in some 
    light, like a screen. I would like to see this Solorflex material. I 
    guess I'll be going to HQ Norwood soon. 
110.131USWAV1::GRILLOJJohn Grillo @ DecusFri Jun 21 1991 13:467
    Well I had my nephew buy me two good shades and install them on the
    inside of my skylights. He replaced the flat wooden piece in the shade
    with a round piece of wood a little longer than the shade then screwed
    in two cup hangers at the bottom to hold the shade in place. All for
    about $26. It works great. It's cooler already in the room. In the
    winter I will reach up and roll it back and let the sun in to warm the
    room.
110.158Leak around skylights - merging old shingles with newREGENT::CIAMPAMon Jul 01 1991 15:2929
I just put in two sky lights this weekend right before the big rain storm.  I 
followed the manufactures directions when installing the windows, EXACTLY as 
they outlined it.  Sunday when I got up it was pouring, so I went to look at the 
windows, no water was coming in around the window but where I cut away the old 
shingles and began with the new, there was a slow drip, (same place on both 
windows).

I think it's because I couldn't place the new shingles under the old ones 
because they are about 15 years old and every time I attempted to lift one it 
would break off in my hands.  compounded with this, there are 3 layers of old
shingles which makes if very difficult to level the old with the new. So I did 
the best I could which I guess isn't good enough.  I realize the roof needs 
be stripped and re-shingled, but I was hoping that could hold of till next 
spring, for now can anyone suggest a fix?

My thoughts:

put 3 layers of new shingles so old and new are level, above top of window.
since the new can't go under to existing old shingles, butt them as good as 
possible and spread some tar to make a watertight junction.

any comments??

Thanks,
Joe
   

                                    

110.159saw thru the nailsKAYAK::GROSSOPrevent &amp; Prepare or Repent &amp; RepairMon Jul 01 1991 16:5914
How pretty does it need to look until you re-roof?  I had the same problem but
re-roofing time was only a month away.  I solved the problem by waiting until
the old shingles I was lifting were warm (so they wouldn't be any more brittle
if such a thing was possible with 30 year old shingles).  I used a flat bar to
ever so gently lift a shingle and then got in with a hacksaw blade to cut the
nails.  They sell a small handle for hacksaw blades that allow you to use them
like bayonets.  I didn't try to nail down the new shingle that I then wedged
up in there. I used roofing cement to hold.  This repair didn't have to
survive a winter or a hurricane but I would have braved a year like that if
I'd had to.  I also didn't worry about lining up the shingles and all that.
All I was worried about was water running downhill and would it always have
another shingle to fall onto till it got to the gutter.  Because I couldn't
get all the shingles up as far as they should have, it was sure an ugly patch
but it was watertight and all I cared about.
110.160hopefully done!REGENT::CIAMPAWed Jul 10 1991 15:0612
    thanks .1
    
    I pulled out the old nails as suggested then added a piece of flashing
    I bought at Grossmans.  this flashing is additional to the skylight
    piece and it extends from under the shingles down to the skylight
    flashing.  I then added the new shingles and tarred the area.
    
    we got some light rain and nothing leaked, but I'm waiting for a down
    pour before I put away the ladder.
    
    thanks for the help,
    Joe
110.45some manufacturer's info on an old skylight noteDECSIM::GRODSTEINMon Jul 29 1991 17:1528
    final addition to an old note (.10), dealing with putting in a skylight
    when you have two roofs (i.e., someone's shingled over the old one).
    
    I called up Roto, and their instructions are: _do not_ flash down to the
    bare roof!  The reasoning is:
    
    1) the sill flashing must dump water over the TOP roof, not in-between
       the two roofs.  If the sill flashing was between the two roofs,
       then water would get through the old (and probably leaky) roof
       onto the sheathing.
    2) once you've put got the sill flashing in the right place, everything
       else is dictated by the way that step and head flashing works --
        -- so you are sliding the step-flashing between the shingles
       of the top roof, not the shingles of the bottom one.
    3) finally, when you do the head flashing, then the requirements of
       continuity make it go under the top roof and _above_ the bottom roof,
       rather than at the very bottom.
    So, strange as it sounds, not flashing to the bare roof does make
    sense.
    
    Any counter-thoughts?
    
    As far as .16 says about attaching the _mounting hardware_ itself to
    the bare roof, I forgot to ask them about that one.  But it makes sense
    to me, since we are talking about structural integrity rather than
    water-tightness.
    
    -Joel
110.100PEACHS::MITCHAMAndy in Alpharetta (near Atlanta)Thu Aug 01 1991 11:2414
    With regard to the acrylic (dome) skylights discussed a few notes back: 
    Any suggestions on how to safely clean them?
    
    I have three of these in my home -- two in my living room (vaulted
    ceiling) and one in my guest bathroom.  I will admit to not doing much
    in terms of cleaning them, even though I have numerous pine trees
    nearby.
    
    I have not had any instances of leakage in the 6-years I have lived
    here -- I do not wish this to change.  Therefore, any suggestions for
    how to best clean them without alot of pressure (which may dislodge
    them?) would be appreciated.
    
    -Andy (a not_so_good_DIY)
110.101BGTWIN::dehahnEvolution is an unproven theoryFri Aug 02 1991 13:596
Cleaning them can be done with a mild detergent and water. Then use a plastic
polish to remove small scratches and brighten them up. I use a product called
"Brillianize".

CdH
110.132Shades/film for OUTSIDE installationSEEPO::WEIGLThu Apr 23 1992 13:4912
    
    Has anyone installed a film or shade arrangement on the OUTSIDE of
    their skylights?  I have shades in my (non-vented) skylights, but that
    only stops the light/heat once inside.  The room still gets hot.
    
    I've heard of films for glass (like the auto window glass stuff?), but
    have been warned not to put that on the inside of the skylight since
    the heat will build up in the window causing failure.
    
    Anyone have a working solution to this??
    
    Thanks
110.133design flawVSSCAD::RITCHIEElaine Kokernak RitchieThu Apr 23 1992 20:396
The solution is not to put skylights where the sun will shine in.

Sorry to be so glib.  Roto makes "blackout" shades that are supposed to solve
that problem.  I don't know what kind of window you have.

Elaine
110.134SEEPO::WEIGLThu Apr 23 1992 20:4712
    re: .13
    
    THanks......
    
    The windows are non-vented Velux FS-4's.  They would not have been MY
    choice, but I didn't have that option with the house....  These are 4x4
    feet, so they're large windows.
    
    Who is "Roto" - would a Somerville Lumber/HQ-type place know about
    them?
    
    Thanks.
110.135Why not Velux FSLANDO::OBRIENGive it a TRIFri Apr 24 1992 02:0721
    re: .14    
    
    >The windows are non-vented Velux FS-4's.  They would not have been MY
    >choice, but I didn't have that option with the house....  These are 4x4
    
    
    Could you enlighten us on why they wouldn't have been your choice?? 
    
    	- too much heat build-up inside??? or is it the Velux window
    themselves?
    
    Reason being,... I'm looking into getting a couple of Velux skylights
    and was trying to decide whether they should be of the 'opening'
    variety or fixed.
    
    The lights will be in our kitchen.
    
    thanks!
    
    	regards,
    		-John
110.136It's the application, not the brandSEEPO::WEIGLSat Apr 25 1992 14:0016
    
    The reason is that in a cathedral-ceilinged room, there's a lot of heat
    buildup which COULD be vented via the skylights if they opened.  These
    windows face south and are very large.  The windows are also in a
    "well" about a foot deep, so if I had vents, the roller blinds would
    probably take care of stopping the heat at that level and then it would
    rise up through the vent.
    
    We bought the house after it was done, so the windows were already
    there...
    
    No reason to think that Velux isn't a good brand.  In fact, I've had
    great luck dealing with Velux service with problems with their venetian
    blinds in the past.
    
    Andy
110.137screensTOOK::M_OLSONTue Apr 28 1992 18:555
    Build a frame and put fairly dense screening on it.  Put that on top of
    the skylight (outside) in the summer. It will cut down on the light &
    heat significantly.
    
    Margaret.
110.138hoe do you hold on?KAYAK::GROSSOPrevent &amp; Prepare or Repent &amp; RepairWed Apr 29 1992 16:385
Is this the voice of experience?  How did you secure it from blowing off
in a storm?

-Bob
110.139acorn recommendationTOOK::M_OLSONFri May 01 1992 20:1111
    This is one of the solutions recommended by Acorn, the makers of our
    house.  You do fasten the screen frames down, I believe with screws.
    I can't remember whether you have permanent peice into which the
    screens are mounted in the summer, or whether you put a plug or cap on
    the screw holes in the winter.
    
    We rejected this solution because history led us to believe that the
    screens would be one of those chores that got delayed well past the
    appropriate season, leading to total uselessness.
    
    Margaret.
110.140I think VELUX makes the kind of shade you are looking forG::MORRISGreg MorrisSat Jun 06 1992 01:1110
Hi!

RE: .12

VELUX makes a kind of roller shade that is installed on the outside of the
skylight.  It can be raised or lowered from inside.  I remember it looking
kind of like a black plastic screen.  Don't remember if it can be applied to 
their fixed skylights... Give them a call!

    Greg
110.161Fixing a broken skylight.COOKIE::MURALISun Jun 21 1992 13:1024
    Hello Folks,
    
    We had a hail storm yesterday. Some of the hail was easily an
    inch in diameter! The storm broke the upper layer of my sky light.
    The bottom layer seems fine. However, there is water between the
    two layers.
    
    I have the following questions:
    
    1. I want to replace the sky light myself. Can I just replace
       the upper (outer layer) only?  Cost=????
    2. There is a metal casing around the sky light, which I must
       first remove. However, there are four rivets that I must remove.
       How do I do this and how do I put in new rivets?
    3. Can the water that is present in between the layers do any damage
       in the short term?
    4. Will it be worth telling my insurance agent about this?
    
    As you can see, I have never done this sort of thing (or any other
    repair before!). Thanks in advance for your help.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Murali.
110.162call the insurance agentMKFSA::SENNEVILLEMon Jun 22 1992 16:037
It sounds like the window is a thermopane type window. Unless you have the
proper tools and training this isn't a home handyman type repair. Call your 
insurance agent this is a job for a glazier and could end up being quite costly.


                                            Take Care
                                               GUY
110.163GIAMEM::LAMPROSMon Jun 22 1992 16:5710
    
     Do you have a Roto skylight?
    
     I had a Roto skylight with water that penetrated between the two glass
    panes. Roto has a ten year unconditional warrenty. The skylight was 4
    years old. They replaced the top section for free. I just removed some 
    screws from the inside, took the top off and reversed the process to
    put the new one back on.
    
                                                Bill
110.164don't worry if you have insurance.EARRTH::DEROSASay it ain't so!Tue Jun 23 1992 12:1816
    If you have homeowners insurance, call your agent and put in a claim
    asap. Then relax, you shouldn't have to do a thing except maybe call 
    a glass shop to come fix it. The insurance should pay most of it, if not 
    all. 
    If you don't have insurance, well it still needs to be fixed only 
    you will have to pay. You will at least need a new complete insulating 
    glass "unit". You could measure the old one yourself and order a new
    one and install it. I've never seen one that the frame was put together
    with rivets, though. Not sure what advice to give without looking at
    it.
    The water shouldn't be a problem in the short term. Unless it starts
    leaking into the house.
    hope this helps.
    
    /bd   
    
110.46trussed roof?MARX::FLEMINGfifty-seven notefiles &amp; no new notesWed Oct 07 1992 19:074
I have a trussed-roof ranch.  Does this make putting in skylights
a bad idea?  Is there a reliable workaround?
Thanks,
John
110.47where is my chain saw??ELWOOD::DYMONThu Oct 08 1992 09:398
    
    
    Not unless your going to cut a truss.  If they are made
    of 2x4's, I'd think twice.   2x6's...well....
    But it sure makes the opening box easy to build.
    
    JD
    
110.48Is trussed roof installed 24" on center?APOGEE::PAQUINBarry F. PaquinThu Oct 08 1992 13:478
    
    
    If the trusses are installed 24" on center, then you can get skylights
    to fit that rough opening which are 22 1/2" wide. That's what I did on
    my breezeway and it came out good. You just build a light shaft down
    from the roof to the finished ceiling.
    
    /Barry
110.49MARX::FLEMINGfifty-seven notefiles &amp; no new notesThu Oct 08 1992 14:264
Thanks.  The trusses are 1" by 6".  Can I move the trusses?  Like
put in other trusses somewhere out of the way of the skylight and
then remove the ones that are in the way?
John
110.50Expert Consulting needed......SMAUG::CHASEBruce Chase, another Displaced MAINEiacThu Oct 08 1992 17:4422
  Our dec/porch, built 10 years ago, on the back (west-facing) of our house 
  has a shed style roof with 16" on center.  The builder had some left over 
  plexi-glass and offered to make two sky-lights to allow more light in our
  kitchen.  He simply built a couple of boxes/frames and attached the plexi-
  glass to them using RTV and calking.  Well, 10 years later it's falling
  apart.  

  We would like to find a couple of the opaque dome-style to replace them with.

  My questions are;

	Where can I find this style skylight?  Looked at HQ and Somerville.

	Is the rough opening 30.5" if the existing ones take up two joists?

	How do I flash them in without creating (more) leaks?  

	Do I have to completely re-do the rolled paper roof?


	Thanks,
		Bruce
110.51remove roof and....ELWOOD::DYMONFri Oct 09 1992 09:3713
    re:john
    IMHO, I think at this point in time it might be safer to find
    one that fits between the trusses....
    
    re:burce
    Did you try looking in Grossmans.  I thouht i'd seen some there
    once?  
    At a guess, you might be able to lift up the paper, slide the flashing
    under.  nail it down and add some tar.  If its to large to fix like
    that, you might be able to cut out and redo a small area around
    the window seeing its only roofpaper.
    
    JD
110.52Skylight with exposed trussVMSDEV::HAMMONDCharlie Hammond -- ZKO3-04/S23 -- dtn 381-2684Mon Oct 19 1992 14:108
      If  you  want a skylight wider than the truss spacing, it might be
      possible to install skylights above the truss  (i.e.  extending  a
      few  inches  above  the  roof surface), leaving the truss exposed.
      Then paint the truss to look nice.
      
      You may not like this idea -- some will, some won't -- but it is a
      LOT easier and probably safer than trying to cut/move trusses in a
      finished building.
110.149finally had my skylights treatedWEDOIT::DEROSAbad moon on the riseTue Aug 10 1993 12:4913
    I just had my skylights tinted by a guy that lives right down
    the street from me. It was a thin film that goes on the inside
    much the same as auto tint and it does not stop the light. 
    It stops 98% of uv rays and 48% of heat energy. I'm very happy
    with it. He said there would be no problem with heat build up
    between the insulating glass panels with this system. As a result the
    room is MUCH cooler and the best thing is that I didn't lose much
    light. I had my patio doors done too, because they face the sun most
    of the day. 
    
    /BD/
    
    
110.150details pleaseCPDW::PALUSESBob Paluses @MSOTue Aug 10 1993 13:1610
    
    re 3896.3
    
     what does it cost to get a window tinted ? 
    
     where are you located ?
    
     thanks for any info.
    
     Bob
110.151QUARK::LIONELI brake for rainbowsTue Aug 10 1993 13:3411
I've started the job of applying low-E tint film to some of the windows in
my house, starting with the living room bay window which gets full sun during
much of the day.  I'm pretty happy with it so far - the incoming heat is
much reduced during the day, and the low-E coating is supposed to retain heat
in the winter.  The light reduction is not a problem on sunny days, though
it does make cloudy days look gloomier.

The film goes up quite easily, once I got the hang of it.  I paid $32 (I
think) for a 4'x15' roll of "Gila Sunshine" brand.

				Steve
110.152EVMS::GODDARDTue Aug 10 1993 17:335
Very interesting...I didn't know this could be
done...and I'm very interested. Where did you get the
film and would you briefly describe the procedure
for applying it.
			JimG
110.153QUARK::LIONELI brake for rainbowsTue Aug 10 1993 19:1965
I bought the film at Builders Square in Nashua. It is made by the same company
(Courtauld, or something like that) which makes films for professional
installers.  I have no idea what the physical difference is between the
film sold for professional installation and that sold for homeowner 
installation.

Installation requires the following tools - spray bottle filled with a 
solution of 1tsp dish detergent (Joy was recommended) to a quart of distilled
water, rubber squeegee, sharp utility knife (an installation kit containing
the previous two items is about $3), single-edge razor blade (could use this
also to replace utility knife, if desired), straight-edge ruler, cellophane
tape (Scotch was recommended, I used generic and it worked fine).

1.  Clean window thoroughly using soap solution.  What I ended up doing was
    the following sequence:

	A.  Spray window, scrape with razor blade, making sure to get in
	    corners.
	B.  Spray again, wipe with squeegee, vertically.
	C.  Like B, but horizontally.

    Don't use a towel and don't use anything but the soap solution for this.

2.  Cut film to 1" longer and wider than glass area.

3.  Remove backing from film by attaching two pieces of tape to a corner, one
    on either side of the film, then separate the tape quickly.  If you do it
    right, the backing will peel off.  (If you don't, the low-E coating may
    come off instead!)  This took some practice to get right.

4.  Spray adhesive side of film with solution.  (If you've got a large piece,
    it's helpful to have an extra pair of hands around.)

5.  Spray glass until solution "beads and runs off".

6.  Put film against glass, with one "factory cut" (or reasonably straight)
    edge 1/16" away from one edge of glass.  Spray film for lubrication.

7.  Using squeegee, flatten film against glass so that it stays in place.  Run
    squeegee along sides and bottom to get it reasonably "flat" against edges.

8.  Using utility knife (and ruler or whatever) trim film 1/16" away from
    egde of glass.  It is important to have this 1/16" there - if you run the
    film right up to the edge you'll have problems.  This also takes practice
    to get right.

9.  Spraying as necessary for lubrication, use squeegee to remove bubbles from
    under film, making sure film is adhering on all edges.

Given that I'm working with multi-pane glass (old style divided windows), I
got lots of practice at repeating the above steps.  I've done 21 panes so far
(and ruined 3 or 4 pieces of film.)

The soap solution will "disappear" and you'll be left with clean film.  You
should use the same solution for cleaning the film - never a commercial
window cleaner containing ammonia or vinegar.

This film also has a scratch-resistant coating - indeed, I abused the coating
a number of times and didn't see any ill effects.  The manufacturer claims
that it makes single-glazed glass "work like" double-glazed.  It is supposed
to reduce incoming heat by 55%, visible light by 40% and retains some 20-30%
of room heat in the winter.  This film can be applied to double-glazed
windows; there is a darker "summer film" that is not low-E which cannot.

				Steve
110.154too many panes!SAHQ::ODENWALDEROdeWed Aug 25 1993 14:2312
    
    The film cited earlier is what I'm using to cover my single and double
    pane widows. It does take a while to develop the technique of applying
    the material but the result is pleasing once the curing has completed.
    Curing is normally a week for the bubbles to settle down by having the
    water permiate the glass.
    
    I plan to use the material for a dozen windows and some of them have
    curved panes of glass. Anyone have an idea how to make templates or an
    easy way to install the film in a french window?
    
    			Thanks	Ode
110.141AIMHI::BOWLESMon Nov 01 1993 18:0918
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    We are in the process of re-doing the attic space over our garage and
    plan to install two skylights as part of the job. I know that some 
    window manufacturers have mini-blind arrangements which are actually 
    between the two panes of glass.  Pella has such an option.  
    There may be others.
    
    Do any skylight manufacturers have the same arrangement as an option?  
    If anyone has such a skylight, what has been your experience?
    
    Thanks,
    Chet   
110.102MICROW::SEVIGNYI know what I'm doing... in theory.Fri Mar 18 1994 19:318
    
    
    Does anyone know the phone number for ROTO?  I'd like to order an
    accessory catalog...  I know they are in Connecticut, but I don't
    remember which town/city....
    
    Thanks.
    
110.103ROTO locatd in Chester, CTLEDS::ODAYRick O'DayMon Mar 21 1994 15:127
>    Does anyone know the phone number for ROTO?  I'd like to order an
>    accessory catalog...  I know they are in Connecticut, but I don't
>    remember which town/city....
    
	They are located in Chester, CT  (US sales headquarters).
	I don't know the phone number, though.    

110.104HYDRA::BECKApprentice caber catcherMon Mar 21 1994 16:401
    Does .33 qualify as a ROTO router?
110.53north vs south facing skylightsNASZKO::THOMPSENThu Aug 11 1994 15:3112
I'd appreciate advice on whether to install skylights facing south or north. 
We have a cathedral ceiling with loft in our master bedroom and have the 
option of putting skylights on the loft side (south-facing) or open-space
side (north-facing). I've checked several books & a DIY videotape but opinions
differ on best placement when considering north vs south facing skylight in
colder climates.

We live in New Hampshire and there are no trees around our lot. Will 
south-facing skylights produce too much heat in July/Aug (even for openable
skylights) or will the heat admitted in winter be enough to offset that 
drawback? I realize this is pretty subjective but would appreciate comments
from those who have skylights.
110.54sky lights4262::MOLSONMargaret OlsonThu Aug 11 1994 17:1317
With south facing skylights,you will BAKE if they do not have sunshades
in the summer - even if they open. To prevent detioration of the window from
excessive heat building up behind the shade, you really want to shades to
pull down between the two pieces of glass on a south facing skylight.

A north facing skylight does not need shades. 

South facing skylights will add significantly to the light and temp. of
your room in the winter.

We have south facing skylights, with shades and deciduous trees. Our well
ventilated house stays cool in the summer - even in the hottest weather
it is cooler inside than out at 5pm. (We run the whole house fan at night.)
The room with the skylights gets to about 70 on a sunny winter day. We
heat the house to 65.

Margaret.
110.55depends on a number of factors...REFINE::MCDONALDshh!Thu Aug 11 1994 18:5912
    
    It of course will depend on size, number and pitch of the skylights.
    Our master bedroom has south facing and north facing skylights and 
    they might have some affect heat-wise... but it is minimal (no shades,
    just screens). 
    
    It will also depend on the surfaces the sunlight will strike when it
    passes through the skylights (e.g. a dark tiled floor will raise the 
    room temperature a great deal more than light colored carpet).
    
    								- Mac
                                                                 
110.56SEND::PARODIJohn H. Parodi DTN 381-1640Thu Aug 11 1994 20:018
    
    I agree with .56 that where the summer sun strikes is an important
    consideration. E.g., would it make the loft insufferably hot?
    
    Which configuration provides the best view from the loft? (Note that
    when it rains, you can't see much of anything through a skylight.)
    
    JP
110.57One opinionCADSYS::RITCHIEGotta love log homesThu Aug 11 1994 20:2713
We carefully avoided putting skylights on the south of our gambrel roof.  We
have three skylights on the north side.  I am very glad we did this.  In the
summer, the sun does enter the skylights in the morning.  On hot days, the last
thing you want is sunshine in the house.  I pull the shades on the skylights in
the morning, and close the skylights most of the way.  At night, I raise the
shades and open up the skylights to fully ventilate the second floor.

Our house is shaded, but since it is a log house, the trees are not right on top
of the house.  Sunlight is a good thing, since it dries siding and prevents
mildew and rot.  As a result, at the peak of the summer, the sun is directly
overhead.  I wouldn't want south-facing skylights.

Elaine
110.58depends what you want moreWRKSYS::SEILERLarry SeilerSun Aug 14 1994 19:2812
    In the winter, a south-facing skylight *can* be a net energy gain in
    New England.  A north-facing skylight is guaranteed to lose heat and
    increase your heating bill.  As noted previously, a south facing
    skylight will also let in a lto of sun in the summer if you don't shade
    it -- preferably a shade that is between the panes or on the outside.
    So whether to do north or south facing skylights depends on what is
    more important to you.  Mine face south-east, in rooms that only
    have windows on one side.  We really like the extra sunlight in the
    rooms, even in the summer.  It's a nicer view in that direction, too.
    
    	Enjoy,
    	Larry
110.59Instant tint...STRATA::CASSIDYMon Aug 15 1994 04:2914
	    Why not one on the north side and one on the south side?  It
	might balance out the room(?). 
	    As for too much sun, I read an article describing a plastic
	film that is applied directly to the glass.  It's supposed to be
	available in a variety of darknesses and can be very effective at 
	reducing thermal and UV radiation.  Problem is, I haven't been 
	able to locate any.
	    The plastic adheres to the window electrostatically.  You just
	mist the glass, to allow the film to slide, and slide it in place.
	When it's time to remove the film (ie. winter), peel it off and 
	store it until next year.
	    
					Tim