Conference 7.286::home_work

  How old is it? Ever thought about using some of the material
  in the barn to build your garage and fix up the interior?
  
  Check out the prices of used barn boards and timbers...they are
  high usually. You can probably sell it in pieces to some builders.
  Get in touch with some.
  
  /tb/
  

    There is a house on Goodman Hill Rd in Sudbury that sold their barn
    to a group in Vermont.  I think they advertised it in a Yankee-type
    magazine.
    
    Anyone know anything else about this?
    
    -phil

    
        Would you be willing to sell me a few beams,cheap?
    if so for how much?  
    
                   paul    gumdrp::piermarini

    There is a guy in Hancock, Mass. named _____ Babcock who buys old
    barns.  Hancock is a pretty small place and I expect a letter to
    
    	Mr. Babcock
    	Buyer and remodeler of old barns
    	Hancock, Mass.
    
    would be a sufficient address.  If you want more detail I can probably
    get it for you.
    
    Steve
    

    Old barns can be one of two varieties- old barns that are junk and
    should be burned and *OLD* barns that can be VERY valuable. If yours
    is one of the latter, dont give it away.  An ad in Yankee or Down East
    would be the right way to sell it yourself.
    
    Be cautious of people offering to buy and remove it. Getting it down
    without damage to the barn, the labor and/or the surrounding buildings
    can be tricky. I'd be sure to ask for some kind of 'bond' and a
    waiver or liability.                

    Just for the record - the guy in Hancock is a professional all the
    way.
    

    re .0
    
    You mifght get a copy of <generic> SourceBook of antiques &
    reproductions,such as copiled by Old House Journal. There are places
    listed who sell old barn parts, such as timbers, etc.
    
    I nned/want the door rail for the hanging type of old barn door,
    so I can remove the plywood doors from my "barn", and puit up some
    authentic old barn door (with wheels, and rail ?).
    
    Bob
    

    Does anyone have any information or know where I can get information
    on converting a barn into a home ??  Any info will be helpful.
    
                        Cheryl
    

    A guy out in Hancock, Massachusetts, does this for a living.  He
    buys old barns, takes them down, then reassembles them where you
    want your house to be.  I assume he'd have some ideas about what
    to do once the barn is there too.
    Hancock is a pretty small place - try writing to 
    	Harold Babcock
    	Hancock, Mass.
    or I assume you could get his number through information.
    
    Steve
    

    One warning- I understand from a real estater salesman that 'there
    is a law' that barns once used for livestock cannot be converted
    to human housing. I cant personally verify this statement. I suspect
    the kind of tear down and reuse Steve mentions in .2 may be acceptable
    because only the timbers are being reused and then at another site.
    
    Id check this out before spending any money.
    
    Ron

	The barn  where  my  horse used to live is now a house. In fact,
    his stall is somebodys breakfast nook. (This is in Lexington, Mass.)


				    KMR

    Contact 'Yankee Barn' of Grantham, NH.  They buy barns, refinish the
    timbers, and use them in their new barn home packages.
    Gary

    Can anyone suggest where I can locate barn plans?  And/or would
    anyone care to share theirs?  Any recommendations for good 
    contractors for foundation and framework?

    We are interested in building a 24' x 36' barn (right away!)
    to house horses.  We live in Groton, Mass. and would really
    appreciate any help or suggestions.

    Thanks, Meg

    I'm currently putting the roof on my new barn and could lend a copy
    of mine.The one I'm building is 34X40 w/a loft over the stalls and
    20' of the aisle.It's pole construction w/pressure treated 4X6 and
    6X6----8 stalls total (7 with a tack room)10X12 stalls-if your
    interested call me at dtn 221-5425
    p.s. The barn is located in Hubbardston Ma. so I could show it to
    you also.
    
    Gary 

    
    We're also looking for barn plans, although we're not in a hurry
    for them. We know what functions the barn needs to serve, but no
    more than that (e.g., we've no idea what size we need):
    
    	- heated indoor kennel for 6 dogs
        - stalls fot 2 horses
        - grooming area for dogs & horses
        - storage for dog/horse supplies
        - storage for other random stuff (lawn mowers, yard tools, etc)
    
    We need both power and water in the barn. Could heat the indoor
    portion of the kennel either with electricity (boo!) or LP gas.
    
    
    
    

    my sister sent me some plans once but now I can not find them. 
    The best was a circuler barn with stalls on the outside.  a circular
    hall and the center having some stalls, feed room, tack ect.  the
    circular hall is great for winter ridding.  the horses being on
    the outside generate heat witch naturaly flows to the center of
    the barn witch has a higher roof.
    
    I hope this is some help.

    I hope this is the place to put this.  I have a 2 stall barn that
    we built 10 years ago, and at the time we used stonedust for the
    floors.  I now have a mare that is going to foal in the spring,
    and I want to put in some type of wood floor, because it will be
    drier in the winter and early spring when we tend to get a lot of
    rain.  What I had planned on doing was using pressure treated 
    2x4x10 spaced about a foot apart, and braced in between.  For the
    floor itself, I was going to use 3/4" plywood, until I found out
    that pressure treated wood is treated with arsenic.  I just don't
    want to take the chance of using something like that since horses
    tend to chew wood when they are bored etc, and I especially don't
    want the new baby laying on it.  If it makes any difference, the
    stalls are 10 x 10.  Does anyone have any other suggestions as to
    what I can use?  Thank you for your help.
    
    Linda
    
    

I guess I don't understand -- You mean when they're bored, they'll chew
right through the floor decking and into the 2x4's that are supporting
it?  It's very difficult to chew a floor, and although I've seen lots of 
horses chew wood that was near head hight, I've never seen one go after 
the floor.  Too much like work for a horse to be interested in it.

Likewise, if you're putting in plywood decking, I don't see how the foal 
could possibly come in contact with the pressure treated 2x4's.  I must 
not understand what you're planning.

				>>>==>PStJTT

    DON'T USE PLYWOOD!!!!
    
    
    My wife ran her own stable for years. (She started at 14, to raise
    money to keep her own two, the first one got lonely, horses). When
    I met her, my carpentry talents were put to use on barn repair, so,
    I have some knowledge of the situation.
    
    Horses are ground feeders primarily. Their teeth are arranged in
    such a way that it is very easy for them to gnaw flooring or any-
    thing else they want. This plus the fact that plywood splinters
    easily when a ply is broken makes it dangerous to use in an application
    where a horse is liable to crib (chew wood). 
    
    I would suggest that you use untreated 2x6 and let them "float",
    don't nail them anywhere, just lay them on the stone dust. Before
    installing them, treat them yourself with some NON-TOXIC preservative
    if you want. By floating the planks they will maintain 1/2 inch
    or so spacing which will provide good drainage, which is the key
    to a barn floor.  
    
    Of course make sure to bed them deep with straw or shavings. I know
    my wife always insisted on straw for foals, but, I don't know if
    this was for any particular reason. Also, deep bedding makes the
    floor less accessible to the wear of teeth and feet so it lasts
    longer.
    
    
    Alan

    Based on the way my grandfather build his stable, and some other
    thoughts...
    
    I would NOT use plywood for the floor.  As mentioned, it tends to
    splinter pretty easily, and I expect horseshoes would tear it up
    pretty fast.  I'd use 2xsomethings (2x6, 2x8, whatever), butted
    tight and well fastened.  I assume you clean out the stall regularly;
    you can clean a stall with a good wood floor just fine.  Slope
    the stall floor very slightly so urine will run out the back, 
    and put a shallow drain across the back of the stall to carry 
    it off; one 5/4x4" board in between the 2xNs would give you 
    a 1/2" deep gutter.
    I talked to a guy in Boothbay Harbor a couple of years ago who was
    a strong proponent of a special hard rubber flooring material specially
    designed for horse stalls.  I don't know if that's worth looking
    into or not.  Apparently there are several manufacturers, but this
    guy thought only one of them made a good product.  I have no idea
    which one, or why he thought this one was good.
    
    I don't see any problem with using pressure-treated wood for the
    framing, if you put a good solid floor on top of it.

    re: .3
    
    I disagree with two points.
    
    1) that the flooring should be tightly butted. Most small barns
    do not have gutters, etc. for drainage built in. The floor boards
    should have enough space between them that they will drain (similar
    to a deck).
    
    2) The boards should not be fastened onto a frame.  HORSES ARE HEAVY
    (earth shaking revelation, what? ) 2 by stock will not support
    a horse. Also, by not fastening the boards they can be periodically
    turned over to even out the wear. Also, a fixed floor is an invitation
    to rodents. And last, but not least, a shod horse can quickly expose
    nails by wearing away the wood around them.
    
    Alan

You might want to use rough 2x oak for the floor.  It should stand up
to the wear better than pine.  I know of a mill in NH that sells it 
reasonably $$, its not great for cabinets but for a stall floor it would
be good.  Let me know if you need the name/number of the mill.

gary

    I checked with my wife's family who keep horses.  They recommend staying
    with the stone dust.  If it's getting worn, renew it by digging
    out the old material, adding some lime for odor control, and adding
    up to 10 inches of new stone dust.  Add the new material a few inches
    at a time and tamp between layers.  Most woods with the exception
    of elm deteriorate quickly in the presence of horse urine.  Elm
    eventually rots too but does so more slowly because of its density.
    But with dutch elm disease everywhere, elm is unobtainable in any
    quantity.  Wood is also slippery when wet which it will be much of
    the time.  Stone dust allows better drainage.  Eight inches of wood
    shavings or straw complete the bedding.  All the stalls in their
    barn are set up this way and they've experienced no problems.  They
    didn't think that a plywood platform would be a good idea.  
    
    My wife says that most commercial stable operators use concrete
    slabs with thick rubber matting.  This allows easy maintenance but
    is hard on the horses feet.  A thick bed of shavings is needed to
    compensate.
    
    

    re: .7
    
    Your wife's family agrees with my wife. Although I must say that
    the rot problem for wood floors was not as bad as your note sounds.
    It's possible that the underlying surface of my wife's barn was
    so absorbent that this was not as big a problem. Sand drains
    very well. This is also the reason for leaving spaces between 
    the planks, to promote drainage.
        
    The reason my wife prefered wood floors was that her horses had
    a tendency toward excavation, she lived on Cape Cod where stone
    dust (and similar products) are expensive, she felt it was much
    easier to clean wood.
    
    Again, my wife prefered straw to shavings for foals since it was
    warmer and not dusty. For full grown horses she prefered shavings
    since they are easier to clean.
    
    Alan

    Thanks for all of your replys.  Right now, the stalls do have
    stone dust in them, and the reason I don't really like it is
    because in the spring, the ground water makes the stalls
    really damp, and I end up going through a lot of shavings 
    trying to keep it semi-dry.  The reason I was looking for wood
    was because I figured I could at least get the horse up off
    the ground a little if it does get wet, and I'll try to use
    peastone and sand mixed together for drainage underneath.  Like
    an earlier reply stated, I had planned to use straw at the time
    when the foal is due, but for now I use shavings for the mare.
    Thanks!

    You might want to check into the Equiation Conference.
    DELNI::EQUITATION.
    
    I'm sure they can also give you some tips.
    
    I've used stone dust with my horses - if they are diggers forget
    it. You'll just end up with it in the manure pile.
    
    I've used clay floors too but the same problem with diggers.
    
    My wife will not let me put wood down but I'd like to.
    I've seen several horse people have good success with wodden floors.
    
    You have to provide good drainage under it. It almost sounds like
    you have a drainage problem to solve before you do any floors!
    
    As far as stra goes..use it with the foal but use shavings otherwise.
    Sawdust is OK too and generally less expensive.
    
 
    /tb/
    

    Re: .4
    
    I can't imagine why 2x stock (as the floor) wouldn't support a horse.
    Horses aren't *that* heavy!  You will need good framing under the
    floor, of course, but that's no big deal.  My grandfather kept a
    couple teams of horses and 50+ cows in a wood-floored barn, for
    about 40 years.  Also mega-tons of hay.

    re: .11
    
    Yeah, 2 by can support a horse if properly framed. That part of
    .4 was a case of fingers getting too far behind the brain so that
    a *few* important words were omitted. Basically, my point was that
    framing a floor in a barn that was not designed for it is probably
    not a good idea given the results that laying the planks on a
    properly constructed base (stonedust) will give.

    Alan
    
    PS  Most riding horses run between 850 and 1200 pounds, I think,
    while draft breeds generally go from 1400 to 2000.

Well, I'm finally going to take this thing down.  Right now I'm considering 
tearing it down myself and selling the boards/beams piecemeal.  One question 
though:  There are a fair number of wane-edge boards.  These are from logs that 
were never squared up, just cut into boards, and the edges just follow the 
curve of the tree.  Can anyone think of a use for these?  I don't think 
they're very salable.  I certainly wouldn't buy any.  If I can't think of a 
reason that someone might want to buy them, then I'll just cut them up and burn 
them.

Paul

Inside every wane-edged board there is a rectangular one trying to get out...

Don't forget to post this to delni::woodworking_and_tools

Depending on the thickness and the "yuppie" factor, I'll bet you can sell all
of them. Come to think of it, I could use some more shelves in the cellar and 
garage...

    I would certainly buy some of the boards.  Beams, too.  I have an old
    barn that needs some help.  Could use some in the house, too, now that
    I think about it.
    
    Actually, I have always heard that "genuine barn boards" can bring a
    pretty healthy price.  Beams, too.  Wood is getting more expensive and
    scarce, and imitation old barn boards are even expensive.  Folks can
    always cut off the edges if they don't want 'em.
    
    'Course you'd give me a discount 'cause I thought of the idea, right??

Two things:  

One, I'm not talking about wane edge, I'm talking about WANE EDGE.  As in
seriously curved boards that are under the metal roofing which doesn't need
continuous support.  

And second, I forgot to ask, (sorry, ATSE::GOODWIN, I'd already thought of it)
does anyone know what genuine old barnboard sells for?  I'll have quite a bit 
of normal square-edge boards, and a lot of them are very nicely weathered.  The
beams are worth something, but probably not a premium, I'm pretty sure they are
just pine.  I was out the other day with a razor knife checking to see if they
might be chestnut, which would have been worth big $$$.  No such luck. 

Oh, and one more thing.  I'll be putting a note in 1666 when I actually have 
some dismantled barn bits to sell, but I'd be open to working out a deal
trading some boards/beams for help in dismantling. 

Paul

    Didn't sundays paper...the Globe... have an article about some
    contractor who buys/uses barnboard..??  Just seems like I've 
    read something about this recently.  If not the Globe, then
    maybe this months Boston magazine....
    I will check when I get home.
    
    deb
    

    Contact a commercial developer; that should lead you to somebody
    who will gladly disassemble and remove your barn and pay you 
    handsomely for the privilege.
    
    pbm
    

FWIW:  I've seen a real estate ad advertizing an old barn for $3,000, "you
haul away".

-Mike

Have you considered donating it to a historical society such as
Ol' Sturbridge Village.  They have disassembled building for their
collection and relocated them.

Re: .17

Get an estimate of what the boards are worth first and it makes a great 
"Charitable deduction" on your taxes.

Could you give rough dimensions?  Anything wider than 1x10?

Just curious.

We've tried to sell this thing, but enough of it is rotted that most people 
don't want to deal with the expense of taking it down.  Right now we're tending 
toward stripping off some of the decent barn board, and letting the fire 
department practice on the rest.

But if I were to have a "barn lowering", offering as compensation to helpers, 
say, as much barnboard or beams as you can haul away, would anybody be
interested?  I'd have to insist on people signing a liability waiver, but we'd 
take it down as safely as possible.

Paul

    Took::fire_rescue_ems is filled with fire fighter types.  If you
    do decide to torch the old building, you might post a note in there
    so that as many as possible can benefit from you burning.

    There are some notes on barn plans in DELNI::EQUITATION.

    Well, a year has come and gone since the last reply, but I just
    stumbled onto this note (and the conference, for that matter) for
    the first time.
    
    What was the outcome?  Is the barn history now, or still awaiting
    its fate?  Interesting that there were no responses to the query
    about a "barn lowering."  I would have participated in that--depending,
    of course, on how far I have to travel (no idea where this barn is/was).
    

Time just kept passing and I just kept not doing anything about it.  I did 
some more poking around in there and found that the barn was in much worse
shape than I thought.  Then at the end of last summer, the town regraded and
repaved the road in front of our house.  The excavator said he'd push the
thing over with the backhoe for nothing.

So I pulled as much weathered barnboard off the sides as I could, and then one
day the excavator went home and got his wife and kids so they could watch, and
he pushed it in.  Didn't take much, either.  There was a serious windstorm
about a month later (in which a friend of mine had a house-under-construction
blow down), and I doubt it the barn would have stood through it.  I mean - one
little nudge at the ridgepole and down it went.  Made an impressive cloud of
dust.  I wish I'd bought our video camera about two months earlier so I could
have taped it.

Anyway, it sat as a pile of crumpled beams all winter, and come spring I 
started to think about burning it.  I wasn't about to just set fire to the
pile, there were trees nearby that I didn't want to torch, and we'd be talking
50 foot flames if I just lit it.  So I was going to start a fire in the corner
and feed the barn to it a piece at a time.  I figured it would take most of the
summer, and we'd grade it over and start a lawn this fall.  It was easier than
I thought, though, and it only took 3 days of burning to torch it.  Since we
were done in early May, we had a guy come and grade it out, and there's now
lawn, field, and a couple of crabapple and dogwood trees where the barn once
was.

I do still have quite a pile of barnboard that I haven't decided what to do
with, though.

Paul

<<< Note 90.23 by VMSDEV::PAULKM::WEISS "Trade freedom for security-lose both" >>>
                               -< It's History >-

I do still have quite a pile of barnboard that I haven't decided what to do
with, though.

>>>Paul,

Old barnboard is used for paneling in some of the "expensive" houses being 
built, also good for picture framing.......You might get some $$$ for the 
pile you have, particularly from some fancy interior decorator.....or call:

    		STEVE THOMAS! (TOH)

    Vic H 8^)

    Anyone got any good methods for cleaning up old barn beams?
    
    We were lucky enough to pick up quite a few old beams from a
    nearby barn that collapsed this winter and are planning to use
    them in our new pantry.  They won't be loadbearing except that
    the 'stringers' will be supported by the 10 x 10 pegged beams
    we retrieved.  Anyway, on the whole the beams are in excellent
    shape and we were just wondering what, if anything, we should
    use to clean them up or treat them with to extend their life
    or enhance their beauty.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Sue
    

  Other than a soft bristled brush, and perhaps some soapy water, you needn't
do much else. As long as the beams have no rot or insect damage, and are
placed away from the possibility of such, they will outlast you and your
grandchildren. I'll venture a guess and say that there will be insect/rot
damage since healthy barns don't normally succumb to winter weather.

  I would first store them for a few months in a protected area and look for
traces of sawdust. You certainly don't want to introduce powder post beetles,
carpenter ants, etc. to the rest of your house.

  Patrick

      I  recently  had occasion to clean up a short piece of 5x6 hemlock
      that had sat out side exposed to the weather for about 6 years.  I
      used  a  power plan to take about 1/16" off of each face.  It came
      out looking like  new.   Apparently  the  discoloration  was  very
      shallow.  After I stained it, it was a near perfect match with the
      existing beams that it butted against.

    If you have graying from weather you may want to get that off before 
    you stain or poly.  I have used a product called DEKS RENS it is for 
    cleaning teak on boats it works great on most other woods also. It is 
    made by Flood and is in some hardware stores and most marine stores.
    I t really brings back the life in old wood.
    
    Good luck,
    
    Cal

    	Looked in this conference for a subject relating to Pole Barns,
    but could not find anything.   I am planning on building a 24'x32'
    pole barn with a Gambrel roof.   I'm interested in talking with
    anyone who has been involved with this type of contruction before.
    I have done much reading on this type of contruction, but would 
    greatly apprecciate words of wisdom from true  experience!
    
        Have found many pole barn plans using trusses for roofs but have
    not, as yet found any plans for pole barns with overhead hay storage
    etc..  Does anyone know where such plans could be obtained??
    
    Thanks,
    Gary   
    

I'm not familiar with a pole barn.  How does it differ from a post and beam 
timberframed barn?

Paul

    	There are similiarities from what I understand.  Pole barns are
    a hybrid of standard stick framing and Post and Beamn. Usually your not
    doing hi-quality work like notching beams together etc...
    Basically your supporting the entire building on beams which are either
    resting on or nailed onto the sides of  poles which are set on concrete
    pads below the frostline.  The poles are usually spaced out on 8-10 foot 
    centers. The 2nd floor and roof is usually standard stick framing 
    construction.  
    
    Gary

What a coincidence.  My wife and I are planning on building a pole barn this 
summer.  We were thinking of a 4-stall barn measuring about 30 feet wide by
40 feet long.  I was thinking 4 stalls 10x20 feet and a 10 foot aisle between
them.  This would allow 2 stalls on one side and 2 stalls on the other side of
the aisle (thus making up the 30 feet - 10 foot stall, 10 foot aisle, and 10
foot stall).

I would also like to have some storage space in the rafters.  I have seen one
barn where some of the supporting members were cut out to make space.  The
strength of the trusses were maintained by using braces elsewhere to spread the
weight.  I would have to look into this further before I would do it.  What I
may do is make the building a little bit higher than I might have otherwise.
This would allow me to put a hay storage area by building some sort of platform
or fake attic.

I was planning on using 4x4 pressure treated posts sunk about 4 feet down.  I
was thinking I would have to go about 10 feet above ground, making 14 foot
poles.

Does this make sense?  Keep us posted, so I might learn from what you are doing.

Ed..

    
    
    We are also going to build a pole barn this year. In fact the frost
    wall is all in and backfilled.  We contacted a company called A@B
    Lumber of Concord N.H. who puts together a pole barn package to 
    your own specifications.
    
    Our barn is 30x60 and will be used for our various antique car
    projects. It will be used both for storages and also have a repair
    shop. For anyone interested in going this route, talk to a fellow
    by the name of Dan Yeaton at A@B.
    
    
    
    

    	I just got back after a weeks vacation.   So far I have buried 12-  6"
    by 6" 14' pressure treated poles  (onto big cement footings).  Due to 
    the barn being 170' from the house I decided to lay down the water line
    and electric lines from the house to the barn while the backhoe was 
    here.   So, I now have running water a 60 amp service and 12 poles in 
    the ground...
    
    	ref. note .3 I too was going to build a barn 30' wide with 10' by
    12' stalls, however by the time you deduct 8" for the  wall thickness
    you end up with stalls quite a  bit less than 10' wide.  But you did
    mention that you are planning on having them 20' long!! That'll give
    your horse more room to roam around in.  (More shavings to buy also).
    If your going with 4x4 post I believe you have to put them on 4'
    centers especially if they are 10' high.  Usually they use 6x6 pt timbers
    on 8' centers.  I opted for 10' and 11' centers though I wish I used
    8' centers.  You need the poles every 8' for stall doors etc.  
    	You might want to check into A+B or another company in connecticut
    that prefabricates a complete notched out post and beam building. They 
    seemed reasonable.  
    	Ref.  note .4  A+B seems to have a pretty good package deal they
    supply plans if you buy all the materials from them.  Not bad wish I
    had heard about them earlier.   Are they using fresh cut Hemlock for
    building the structure?   I was thinking of buying fresh cut Hemlock
    from bingham lumber.   Also what size nails are they using for the
    girts ?  I was told that code calls for 60d's  but a contractor I met
    said everyone uses 30d spikes.  Also was told that you are suppose to
    predrill the nail holes so as to avoid splitting the girts and poles.
    Does your plans have any of that info.  
    
    	More later
    	Gary

    curious...
    
    can someone give me a guesstamate on how much these pole barns go for???
    
    	wendy o'
    
    

    	Wendy, I received a quote from A+B for just materials for a 24'x30'
    pole barn with a 9/12 gable pitch roof.  Not including nails, roofing
    materials, stall materials (doors,kickboards etc.) windows, digging
    out, electrical and water.  The price was $7,000.00   
    	I also just received a quote from BYB for a completed 3 stall
    24'x30' barn with a tack room, doesn't include electricity or water.
    The price was $23,900.00.  This was for labor and materials. I met them
    at the North Hampton horse show recently. There barns look really nice.
    	There is another company Conn. Post + Beam that sells a kit barn.
    They notch out all the main beams like the olden days.  You put in the 
    foundation support pads and put up the kit, like a erector set.  For
    the same size 24'x30' barn the cost was $7,800.00 .   If I were to
    start all over again I'd have gone this way.  Would have been a great
    3 days having a barn raising party too!!
    
    	I'm currently building my 24'x32' gambrel barn off of some National 
    Plans Service pole barn plans.  
    
    	Hope this helps.
    
    	Gary

    Is there a good way to keep down dust on a dirt-floored barn?  My horse
    barn has dirt floors, but the dirt is so dry that the dust is terrible. 
    I've tried sprinkling water on it, and this will work for a while, but
    not really well, and has the drawback of then being slippery.  I will
    eventually have concrete poured in the barn aisles, but it will be
    quite a while before I can afford that.  One section of the floor is
    almost completely covered with heavy rubber mats, which is what I have
    on the floors of the horse stalls, but even the 10" or so of exposed
    floor around the mats throws up enough dust so that everything in the
    barn is covered with a layer of dust by the end of the day.
    
    A friend suggested mixing some dry cement with the dirt and then just
    wetting it.  Anybody know if this would work?
    
    -ellie

How about dumping a sack of bark mulch on it. Should be heavy enough to stay
in place and it can't be any worse....

Calcium chloride sprinkled on the dirt will help keep the dust down.  It
absorbs a little moisture from the air to do so.  It is sold as ice melt so it
may be hard to find this time of year.  Read the label as not all ice melt is
calcium chloride.

-Mike

    Will walking over calcium chloride bother the horses hooves?  You might
    want a veterinarian's opinion before you go this route.
    
    George
    

>>  A friend suggested mixing some dry cement with the dirt and then just
>>  wetting it.  Anybody know if this would work?

Unless you are going to "pour" multiple inches of concrete this suggestion
will only make a very thin layer of concrete. This layer will then be ground to
dust as soon as someone walks on it. Instead of having one kind of dust you'll
have two. 

    I doubt that the cement idea would work; there won't be enough to
    bind anything, and it will just powder away.  Pretty cheap to try
    though.
    
    Calcium chloride is what they use on dirt roads to keep the dust
    down; that will definitely work, although it might cause problems
    with the concrete poured on top of it later.  Since the concrete
    will be multiple inches thick I doubt that it will be significant
    if the bottom surface of the concrete (where it is in contact with
    the ground) tends to disintegrate a little.  It shouldn't affect
    the general integrity of the slab.  No idea if it would hurt the
    horses.  It might taste salty and the horses might lick the ground,
    which might wouldn't be so great, but I'm not sure it would actually
    hurt them.  Check with a vet.

    Not sure how this would work, but how bout oil... I've seen it used in
    a number of places, one that comes to mind is VT.
    They oil the dirt roads in VT to keep the dust down, at least in S.
    Woodstock... Not sure what type they use but it works pretty well.
    
    You could also try putting a layer (4-6") of stone dust down, you'll 
    have to put some down under your concrete anyways.  It packs well and 
    should do the trick.  Just a thought...
    
    Fra

    Calcium chloride isn't an option, I'm afraid.  It does terrible things
    to horse hooves.  I've tried stone dust, and that's dusty also.  (I
    have stone dust under the rubber mats in the stalls, but that doesn't
    dry out, for reasons I need not go into 8^) )
    
    The oil and the pine bark mulch sound like good ideas.  Pine bark would
    smell good too -- a plus in a barn!
    
    Thanks for the replies.  I had posted this in EQUITATION too, of
    course, but I figured folks in this conference might know more about
    this sort of thing than we horsey folks do.  And I was right!
    
    -ellie

    
    I've got a floor problem in a 140+ year old post and beam barn.   The 
    current floor is deteriorating quickly, from years of use and neglect.  
    The floor consists of 2 layers of 2" thick (rough cut, not 2-by)
    pine boards.   The floor area which needs to be replaced is roughly 
    24x24 feet..  Therefore, if I wanted to replace the floor with the same
    material, I'm looking at 2304 board feet of pine and a serious chunk of 
    cash (~$800).  
    
    Since this floor supports the weight of a car, I obviously need a
    substantial flooring material..  My questions is are there any other 
    alternatives to using 2 layers of pine..  Would thick (1" or more) 
    plywood (either as the floor, subfloor, or both) provide the same 
    structural integrity at a more reasonable price?   
    
    Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated..
    
    /Jeff 

    Check out note 1343 "Soil Concrete" for more details about using dirt
    as part of a concrete mixture.  

    Personally, I'd go with the boards.  I doubt that plywood would be
    any cheaper, especially since I bet the joists are at no rational
    spacing and you'd end up wasting lots of plywood.  I expect even
    a single layer of 1" plywood would run you at least $900, guessing
    (based on not much of anything) that 1" plywood is about $25/sheet;
    it may be more as it's not very common.  You're talking 36 sheets of 
    plywood here, figuring no waste at all.
    And I wouldn't want to drive a car on a single layer of plywood, even 1".

    
    RE: .0
    
    How about wood shavings?  If you could get enough of them...

    Hi Ellie,
    
    Haven't caught up to your entry in EQUITATION yet, so I'll put
    in my (somewhat inflated) two-cents' worth here.  We have the same
    problem in our 12-stall barn, and are toying with various long-term
    solutions for the future (when we can afford to put in a better
    floor!).  And with a 16-foot-wide aisle, we have lotsa potential dust.
    
    The bark mulch sounds good, for the reasons already stated (not the
    least of which is atmosphere).  The only reason I wouldn't consider
    doing that myself is that we're already using a technique along the
    lines of one mentioned in a previous reply.  Someone mentioned wood
    shavings...well, we're using sawdust now for the stalls, so the excess
    winds up in the aisle. 
    
    Unlike bagged shavings, which we use in the winter, we have sawdust
    delivered by the truckload.  In the process of getting it into the
    stalls, we manage to spill plenty in the aisle.  So we just rake it
    until the floor is covered.  Not only does it keep the dust down (as
    long as it lasts), but it looks better and brightens up the barn. 
    Smells better, too!
    
    -steve
    

    I'm looking for the names of some houserights (sp?) who
    my husband and I can hire to reconstruct our barn.
    
    The house and attached barn are circa 1820, federalist farmhouse 
    post-and-beam style and we're trying to stick fairly close to the 
    original designs. (Of course we do have electricity and central heat..)
    
    The barn is literally falling apart, almost to the point of
    being unsafe. We'd like to hire a houseright to take it apart,
    salvage whatever beams etc are in good condition, and then
    rebuild it from the ground up. 
    
    The house is in Worcester County, so a houseright from almost
    anywhere in New England would be worth considering.
    
    If you have any names, contacts, or suggestions please either
    reply to this note or send mail to cals::mudgett.
    
    Thanks.
    

    There's a guy in Hancock, Mass., who does exactly this.  His name
    is Richard (?) Babcock and has, I believe, an excellent reputation.
    I am sure he will not be cheap.  ;-)

    It's worth checking with Post & Beam timberframers.  I would highly
    recommend E.F. Bufton out of Princeton, MA, 508-464-5418.

    Many years have passed since an entry was made here.  We're looking at
    taking possession of a barn in a town nearby for the purpose of moving
    it piece by piece to our property.  Hopefully the end result will be
    a barn of nearly the same proportions when we are done.  Hopefully we
    will live through it and not go broke either :-) !
    
    It seems as though among other things, we need to be thinking about
    insurance for anyone who works on the move with us; large trucks to
    move the beautiful beams, etc.; and lots of time.  If anyone has any
    horror stories they would like to share, feel free to jump in here.
    
    carol

    You might like to contact Patrick Leach (leach@bedford.progress.com)
    for stories about moving old buildings.  He moved the house that he
    lives in now.  I don't remember where it originally stood but now it's
    in Ashby.  The house was originally built around 1820.  He's always
    quite happy to share stories like this.  He used to work here so you
    may have seen some of his notes from the past.
    
    						John

I've got an early 1800's barn that needs to be taken down.  Most of the 
beams and timbers are pegged and in good to excellent shape.  The back roof 
is essentially gone and I'd like to take the barn down before the lumber is 
of no value and before it falls down by itself.  Lots of real wide boards.
Barn is approx 50x33'.

Any suggestions as to who does this type of work?  Barn is located in 
Pembroke, NH (next to Concord).

Thanks,
Joe

send mail to XCUSME::TOMAS

>>            <<< Note 5659.0 by TRACTR::TOMAS "I hate stiff water" >>>
>>                               -< BARN RAISING? >-

You could probably get somebody to PAY YOU for the wood in the barn
and take it down.  The 1800's barn board and beams are in demand.

Garry

re: paying me

I'm aware that barn timbers are in demand.  I'm just having trouble finding 
folks that are either in the business or interested.  Pointers to companies 
that are in this type of business would be welcome.

Thanks,

Joe

    Try getting a copy of "Old House Journal" - it's a monthly mag and I've
    seen ads for companies selling old bldg's such as yours.
    I know there's one in RI and several in CT that do this type of work.
    
    The way they work is: Take down your bldg. and document all pieces, pay
    you some $$ for it, take it to their location for storage, then sell it
    and erect it on the new customer's site. A good. solid early 1800's
    barn (post & beam) should be work some good $...i remember seeing ads
    for these retailing between 8-15K for similar barns.

You might call Tedd Benson's Beam Team in Alstead, NH (don't have the number
handy).  They are doing a lot with recycled timbers and it sounds like you have
a nice piece on your hands.  However, I don't know if they do demolition.

>                               -< BARN RAISING? >-

	   Not that this will help you, but I believe you mean barn razing.
	
					Tim

    There's a fellow in Hancock, Mass., Harold (?) Babcock, who
    specializes in timber-frame barn repair, rebuilding, disassembly,
    restoration, etc. He had a heart attack a while ago, but I think
    he's still in business with his sons.
    
    Hancock is a pretty small place; telephone information ought to be
    able to get a number for you.

    
    Chronical, just had a whole thing on barns.  They had lots of folks in
    the MA,NH area who need old barn timbers.  If you get ahold of the
    folks down at Chronical, I'm sure they could tell you who they were.
    
    Louisa

re: .7

What is "Chronical"?  How do I contact them?

Thanks for all the input.

Joe

PS.  Yeah, I knew "raising" should have been "razing" as soon as I entered it.
     Too busy to fix it & I knew you'd know what I meant.

>>What is "Chronical"?  How do I contact them?

Its a news show on WCVB channel 5 in boston.

You could try WCVB@aol.com

Brian J.

> PS.  Yeah, I knew "raising" should have been "razing" as soon as I entered it.
>      Too busy to fix it & I knew you'd know what I meant.

	After you finish reading this reply it should take only a second
	to fix the title, assuming you're using the character-cell version
	of NOTES (ie. with a Notes> prompt).  If so just enter this command
	now and press enter:

		modify note .0/title="Barn Razing"

	(or whatever you want to set it to)

The name of the show is "Chronicle".

		Steve

    "Yankee" magazine, August issue I think but possibly July ('95),
    profiled someone whose business it is to relocate barns, assembling
    them at the new location either *precisely* as they were or in a new
    configuration drafted by him or specified by the new owner.  I'll try
    to find the issue at home this weekend but in the meantime you might be
    able to track it down yourself at a library.
    
    Leslie

    My "Yankee Magazine" reference is older than I thought (April '95, page
    108) and looks like it's the same guy Steve Wellcome mentions in .6: 
    
    	Richard Babcock 
    	P.O. Box 484
    	Williamstown, MA 01267 (the article says he's from Hancock, Mass.)
    	413-738-5639
    
    Leslie

    re: .13
    
    Yes!  Richard Babcock it is.  (Not Harold....)
    
    If you want a real expert on barns, it's him.

    Others listed at the end of the "Yankee" article as "the folks to call
    for everything from advice and information to removing and restoring an
    entire barn":
    
    [Richard Babcock was the first listed]
    
    Ken Epsworth
    P.O. Box 4
    South Woodstock, VT 05071
    802-457-3943
    
    Stephen P. Mack
    Stephen Mack Associates
    Chase Hill Farm
    Ashaway, RI 02804
    401-337-8041
    
    Bill Supple
    Old Home Building & Restoration
    P.O. Box 384
    West Suffield, CT 06093
    203-668-2445
    

Thanks to all for your help.

Will let you know what happens...if and when!

Joe