Conference 7.286::home_work

I've heard of "toilets that flush UP" for the situation that you describe
(sewar/ceptic outlet higher than the toilet).  I don't know more than that
but I imagine that a decent plumbing store would be able to help.

However, that doesn't solve the problem of the sink drain.

-- Ward

Ditto on the "toilets that flush up;" I've heard of them, for just the
situation you describe, but I don't have any idea how they work either.
However, I assume any plumbing supply outfit could give you the details.

The sewage pumps are, I've heard, quite reliable - but there is that
problem of what happens when the power goes out.  I'm not sure that
is a serious concern, especially since you have other toilets.  If
it really bothers you, get a standby gas generator.  But how often
does your power go out, and for how long?  I lose my water supply when
I lose power for the well pump, but that's never been a big deal.

Your best bet may be to find a good plumber or two and solicit their
advice on what the best solution is.

Steve

	I have a sump pump in my basement - the sewer pipe is about 3'
above the floor as well.

	It services a toilet, shower, 2 sinks, and a washing machine.
I think I have even showered while the washing machine was running.

	It is important to have a check valve so that drainage doesn't backflow
into the sump.  The valve is a little noisy when it shuts off (closes).

	The only problem I have had is that the pump sometimes gets stuck
"on," that is, the float switch sticks.  I unplug the pump and plug it back
in; or it seems to eventually fix itself.

__Rich

    
    
    I've had an "upflush" tank in my house for nine years, with a minimum
    of problems.
    
    The tank is set in a hole in the foundation floor and it services
    a bathroom, dishwasher, kitchen sink and washing machine. 
    
    The biggest problem is items such as handkerchiefs and socks getting
    washed into the unit (from the clothes washer) and gumming the
    impeller. 
    
    The only time I had a major problem was after the unit had been
    in use for about two years. It was so badly screwed up that it had
    to be replaced at a cost of $350.
    
    When there is a power failure you can let a small about of liquid
    get into the holding tank (I can't remember the capacity-maybe a
    few gallons), but it is best to resort to above ground systems at
    that time.
    
    Ken

    I am looking to put a toilet in my basement below the sewer line.
    I realize ther are some expensive ways of digging big pits and
    pumping the sewerage up, but I'm looking more for info on what
    used to be advertised as flush up toilets.  Anyone out there got
    one or know of where I might find info on them?
    
    							Thanks
    
    							ANT::DBELLETETE

    A couple years ago I was thinking about a basement toilet, I'm
    partitioning off my basement now and beginning to think about the
    sink and toilet again. My old folder revealed the following:
    
     Flush up toilets.......    McPherson Inc.
                                P.O. Box 15133
                                Tampa, Florida 33684
    
        Basement toilet that flushes up .....$249.95 ($- 2.5 years old)
    
          INCLUDES:  * White Vitreous China (porcelain) Bowl
                     * Brass automatic twin flush valve
                     * Water supply fitting
                     * Sewage riser fitting
                     * Anti-Syphon health guard vacuum breaker
                     * All connectors between valve and toilet
                     * Installation sheet                  
    
 Hope this puts you on the right track, I've never spoke to anyone who
 owned one.... 

Mark    

Separate but related question:

About 3 months ago - I replaced the float in my toilet with one of the 
new fangled ones (from Spags) that's tall & thin, and has no 
balloon-like float (hope someone knows what I'm talking about).

Funny thing - after it fills up - the toilet runs (sounds like its
filling) for about 10sec every 15min or so... for about 8hrs or so
after its flushed (I *THINK* it stops after that). 

I can't find a leak where the water would be going out to require more 
filling.

This float was the new 'antisyphon' (toilet can't spill back into 
the line) type.

Is this normal?    Is the float defective?  Is the installation 
defective?  (can't find anything wrong).  Is the installer defective?
(quite possibly).

All feedback muchly appreciated.

    I also just put one of those 'pressure' valves in. Works fine.
    I would try this. Put some of that BLUE bowl cleaner in the tank.
    Make it very strong. After a while, see if the water in the
    Bowl has a blue color or tint. I would guess that your flapper
    or equiv is not sealing completely. In fact, the cheaper
    rubberized products found in K-Marts seem to do this every year
    or so.
    
    If it is the seat, they sell some new fangled remedies in places
    like MOORE's in ayer that REPLACE the ENTIRE TOP AND BOTTOM of the
    Flapper area. Seems to work great.
    
    M
    
    Mark

could be the flapper, - the funny thing is that the entire toilet is 
only 2years old (grossman's, $59.95)

     Almost for sure it's the flapper. Easy to replace though.
    
    					Kenny

    
    re: .3
    
    Beg to differ with .4, .5 and .6. I, too, installed one of those
    units, and had the same problem that you are experiencing. For
    a while after the toilet was flushed, the water would
    turn back on for a second or two every few minutes. There were
    no leaks from the tank (flapper, joints, overflow, etc), and the
    most baffling point was that after a while, this behavior would
    stop. Went on for a few months, and just about the time I decided
    to rip the thing out, it stopped.
    
    Theory: The float on that unit is not sealed - it is open at the
    bottom, and traps air in order to float. Therefore, it is very easy
    for the air to "escape", lowering the float and letting in more
    water until a new balance is reached. Two possible reasons for lost
    air:
    
     	1. a slow leak in a seam of the inverted cup (but not too close
           to the top, or all the air would eventually leak out, causing
           the float to sink and turning on the water permanently).
           When the toilet is flushed, the tank water level drops below
           the float, replenishing the trapped air volume, which again
           leaks slowly down to the level of the hole in the cup.
    
    	2. (even more insidious) when the toilet is flushed, warm air
           from the bathroom rushes into the tank, and into the inverted
           cup. When the tank is full, the cold water begins to cool the
           air in the cup, causing its volume to decrease, thus emulating
           the pinhole effect.

    I hate to think it was 2, but I never did find any air bubbles to
    prove 1. And why it stopped after a few months is still a puzzle.

    (I thought a _lot_ about this during the worst months of last winter.)
    

    Check again, The unit actually has a VERY sensitive Mechanical PRESSURE
    sensor in it. They caution on the package that in some cases, the
    water and the elements in it, can cause the mechanism to malfunction.
    They also give VERY complete details of their recommended cleaning
    method. Seems to be a place  to start. I've been using mine for
    quite awhile now, and NOT A PROBLEM.
    
    Mark
    

    Here's the poop:
    
    	Summerville lumber has the whole sewage ejector kit for $369.90
    This consist of a 18 x 30 inch plastic basin, sewerage ejector pump,
    and a check valve.   Screw the kit, buy the basin there or any general
    plumbing supply house prices vary from $119 to $119.90...buy the
    pump at SPAGS for $136.50, and the check valve there also for $7.95
    total non kit price of just $264 saving $106+ thats well worth the
    extra driving around.  This is also about the same cost as the flush
    up from McPherson which has no expandability.  The basin allows
    you to hook in your toilet, washer, sink, wet bar etc at only addition
    piping cost...seems the best route I've found yet...hope this helps
    out anyone else thinking of this type of project, and if you know
    of a cheaper way by all means let me know...yes this basin meets
    all codes which is why it cost $100 more than the 30 gallon trash
    barrel it resembles...
    
    							Dana
    codes

    I don't think the flush up toilets are allowed under the Mass plumbing
    codes. Even if they were, I not sure I'm comfortable with the idea
    of a Flush Up toilet. I would go the route of the sewage ejector,
    its a nice idea. You would probably wanted a sink near the toilet
    as well and you can easily add that and others to the ejector.
                                                
    CB

    Well Dana, I'm glad you stubbled on to the fact that the sewerage
    ejector was the way to go. Your note prompted me to REthink my plans
    for a toilet in my basement. I called my plumber (a friend of mine),
    he indicated that the McPherson Flush Up toilets do work but ....
    if somewhere down the road you need to replace a fitting, you might
    have to go back to the toilet manuf. as some fittings they incorporate
    in their flush-up design could be non-std. I'll probably stick with
    just a sink in my basement which will only require a small pump
    that can be located on the basement floor below the sink. The toilet
    for my basement is a nice idea but the sewerage ejector required
    measures 26-28" dia. and about 3' deep according to my plumber.
    
    My neighbor recently finished off the lower level of his split entry
    and put in a bathroom. The deal with the sewerage ejector between him 
    and his plumber:
    
        My neighbor was to provide the hole, plumber does the rest.....
    
    Well the rest was the easy part. My neighbor rented the jack hammer
    to get through the poured floor (~7-8" thick) then began to dig
    the 3 foot hole...only to uncover a boulder right in line where
    the sewerage ejector was to sit $$$ %@#*?. This led him to hook-
    up with another guy who used some sort of blasting caps to partially
    remove the rock. Needless to say, his basement turned out beautifully
    and the ejector does the job. I really want to put one of these
    ejectors in my basement also but if you saw the prudental rocks in my
    neighborhood.....
    
    What you can't see may aggravate the @!#$^ out of you. Some of these
    homeowner projects are best left to someone who will take on the
    hole (<pun,get it!!)  job even if it costs abit more. Last spring I
    hired a backhoe a dig a simple hole on the side of my house for
    a 1000 gallon oil tank........
    I have difficulty digging holes in my yard to plant bushes.

    I would like to add a utility sink in my basement.  There is a
    washer/dryer hookup there, and the drain for the washer is a pipe
    which dumps into the pipe going out into the leach field.  The pipe
    is about 7' above the floor of the basement on the wall.  The washer,
    of course, has a pump to drain itself from floor level into this
    pipe.
    
    My question is this - is it possible to get a sink with a small
    pump attached which could be used in the same drain?  If possible,
    I'd like to avoid knocking a hole in the concrete floor.
    
    Also, is there any reason why I couldn't use Y adaptors on the existing
    water sources and just run hoses to the utility sink?  That way,
    I wouldn't need to run copper water lines the 5-7' that's needed.
    
    Anyone have experience with this type of setup?
    
    Thanks!

    
    They have pumps for this problem.  They cost around $120-$150 at
    Somerville Lumber.  I think they are in their latest brochure. 
    What you may want to do is have your washer drain into the sink
    and then have the water pumped into the opening currently used by
    the washer.
    
    About the hoses vs. copper lines.  Do it right.  Use the copper.
    It's not that difficult.  Besides, where would you run the hoses
    from?  There will be some plumbing to be done anyway.
    
    Phil

The most commone solution to this problem that I've seen (it keeps 
coming up in the PHOTO notesfile, since most people build darkrooms in 
their cellars) is to let the drain empty into a platic trash can, and 
put either a submersable pump or a sump pump into the trash can to move 
the water up to the drain lines.  

In either case, the pump should have a float switch on it so it will 
operate unattended (it's amazing how fast a small drip can overrun a 30 
gallon trash can) and a check valve to prevent backflow problems.

My personal experience is that the sump pump can move water at amazing 
rates, and can easily move it too fast for the drain to handle if it's 
going into a small line. (Read geysers from the laundry drain if the 
pump switches on while some other water source is draining into the 
line.)  The small submersable pumps have a more easily handled capacity, 
but you have to make sure it can pump faster than your water source can 
supply water.

You can use hoses to hook up the utility sink, but seven feet sounds 
like a long run for a hose.  Remember that the hot water hose will tend 
to become more flexible when it's hot, and can easily pinch itself off, 
or develop a large sag that might tip your sink or knock something over.
Also, the flexing ages hoses pretty fast, and the day will come when one
splits and there is a run-away leak in your basement. (Not to
worry...you'll be on vacation somewhre when it happens.) 

					>>>==>PStJTT

    I face a similar situation in that I would like to install a sink
    in my basement but have no hook-up or drain.  .2 gave me a good
    idea.  Drain it into my sump.  I also have a floating slab, so
    theorically I could drain it into the space between the basement
    wall and the floor.  My questions are:
    
    	1. Could draining it into the space between the basement wall
    and the floor somehow undermine the wall?
    
    2. What effect would washing things like paint brushes or solvents
    have on my basement environment?  What sort of residues would be
    left on that space.  It would probably kill all the grass if drained
    via the sump-pump into the garden (as it does now).
    

    
    Thaks for your replies so far.  On the hoses, I was going to get
    a Y-adapter with shutoffs, to prevent just what -.1 assured me would
    happen.  That way, I wouldn't have pressure in the lines all the
    time (just like the washers).  I was guessing 7'.
    
    I'll check into copper - you're right, it's not THAT hard.  Was
    just looking for a fast way to get a low-use sink installed.  Now
    that I think about it, it might make sense to drain the washer into
    that sink as well.  Hmmm.
    
    Any others?

    	The trsh can idea is good, I never thought of that. I was thinking
    of useing one of the ready made units but the trash can has one
    big advantage, If your using chemicals you don't want in your septic
    system you can always dump it out somewhere else. 
    
    			Great idea...
    
    ...Dave
    

    < Note 1924.5 by LDP::BURKHART >

>    	The trsh can idea is good, I never thought of that. I was thinking
>    of useing one of the ready made units but the trash can has one
>    big advantage, If your using chemicals you don't want in your septic
>    system you can always dump it out somewhere else. 
    
>    			Great idea...
    
	Now where would you carry and dump chemicals that you didn't
    want in your septic system?  Your *neighbors* yard ;-)?  If you've
    got a septic system, you may also have a well.  I'll predict a "Why
    does my water taste funny?" note if you have a well.  Watch what
    you dump and where you dump it.  Its got to go someplace.
    
    Phil

    	I'm not talking toxic waste treatment plant but just the idea
    of washing out paint brushes bothers me. I personally recycle my
    paint thinner used to clean brushes so as not to be pooring it into
    the ground or down the drain. I was just talking about this to my
    neighbor who was saying the town is going to have a hazzardous waste
    day next year, (start saving). 
    	One thought of where to dump if not your septic is a dry-well.
    My fathers old farm house in CT has 2 drainage systems one exclusivly
    for the toilets with tank and leach field. And one for all the sinks
    and tubs into a big drywell.
    
    BTW.. I do have city water, but I'm more concerned about the pond
    		in my back yard.
    
    

    I'm looking into a split ranch in Hudson with a finished basement.
    One of the main sticking points is that I will want to add a bathroom
    (toilet, shower, sink) to the basement level floor.  The sewerage
    pipe is about 1-2 feet above the concrete level.  I've read about
    the 'flush-up' toilets here but figure that I would need a pump
    for everything.
    
    My questions are:
    
    How much (ball park) does this all cost if you have someone dig
    the hole and everything?
    
    How reliable is this for showers, toilet, etc... I can live with
    it not working for power outages but it will be used quite a bit.
    
    Anyone know if it's legal in Hudson.??
    
    
    Thanks for your answers,
    
    Don

The prices I got were as follows:

	Sewer ejector	$700 (with overflow alarm)
	misc materials	 300
	labor		 400
	toilet 		 100-150
	vanity		 depends on what you get.
	
	I would be digging the cement myself, so that is why the labor is
less expensive.  The plumber said to stick to a toilet and sink, and forget
the shower, he didn't recommend  on with an ejector.  Other opinions may vary.

Brad.

    Does anyone know current pricing of an up-flush toilet?
    
    Are they legal in Conn.?
    
    SJG

    spoke to McPherson last week - (813) 876-6392
    
    current pricing and models are:
    
    	UPTF - twin valve model for city water	$295
    	UPM - manual valve for wells		$295
    	UPD - upflush drain kit (for sink)	$ 55
    
    all prices FOB Tampa - ship truck or bus
    
    they do have local dealers, give them your zip code.  My local dealer
    charges $320 - that is about right, since shiping by bus is about $35.
    
    Literature does NOT show need for a vent pipe.
    
    Talked to a plumber who has used them and he said:
    
    	they are noisy
    
    	work pretty good as long as you don't try to flush up too
    	high - max of 5 feet (vs 10 feet advertised)
    
    My question - has anyone bought or used one?????
    
    	-Barry-
    

    I'm thinking of installing a utility sink in the garage right next to
    the water heater (easy access to the water lines).  The only problem is
    there is no drain near by.  The closest is through the wall into the
    kitchen through 3 cabinets back to the kitchen sink.  I was thinking of
    just draining the sink out through the outside wall onto the ground.
    
    All I plan to use this sink for is to clean up after working in the
    garage, not as a parts cleaner.  I typically use the goop type hand
    cleaner, not regular hand soap.  Would this type of cleaner be
    harmful if drained outside?  Maybe I can make an area with crushed rock
    or something....
    
    Any thoughts on this?
    
    BTW, we are on city water and sewer.
    
    Dave

    Has anyone seen or used a sewage pumping system known as the 'Zoeller
    Kwik-Jon'?
    
    We, too, are planning to add a 3/4 bath in the basement of our split
    ranch, and also are faced with an existing waste line that's 3 or 4
    feet above the floor. We had considered installing a sewage ejection
    system, but since we have a high water table (plus a lot of ledge) in
    the area, I wasn't too keen on busting a hole in the slab in which to
    sink the tank. 
    
    One of the contractors who's bidding on the job suggested using the
    Zoeller Kwik-Jon system. It's basically a rectangular tank approx 3
    feet long, 2 feet wide, and 5 1/2" tall; at one end is a section that's
    approx 2 ft tall that houses the pump itself. The Kwik-Jon is designed
    so that the toilet sits right on top of the main tank, and will also
    accomodate other drains (sink, shower, etc.). Discharge is thru the top of
    the 2 ft high section. 
    
    We had planned to install a raised subfloor thru the basement using 2x4 
    sleepers on the flat. If we opt for the Kwik-Jon instead of a typical
    ejection system, we'll raise the toilet/vanity alcove on 2x6's on edge,
    which will give me enough clearence for the Kwik-Jon tank. We plan to
    cover the tank with our 1/2" subfloor, and run the toilet flange
    directly into the tank. The tall portion of the tank will be to the
    right of the toilet, behind the adjacent wall, and will be accessible
    thru the storage closet that will be located on the other side of the
    wall.
    
    This all sounds good on paper, and I've seen the system on display at
    Somerville Lumber, but I've never known anyone who's used one. The
    plumber's installed two during the past year, and hasn't been aware of
    any problems. Has anyone else seen or used such a system? Any thoughts
    or comments?
    
    Thanks in advance for your comments...
    
    Freddie
     

>>>  Has anyone seen or used a sewage pumping system known as the 'Zoeller
>>>  Kwik-Jon'?
    
>>>  We, too, are planning to add a 3/4 bath in the basement of our split
>>>  ranch, and also are faced with an existing waste line that's 3 or 4

	I was the carpenter/electrician on a basement job earlier this year
	that included just such a bath based around the Zoeller system. I
	framed it with 2x6 PT and 3/4 floor and ran a dedicated 20A GFCI
	circuit for the pump. 

	Two problems were encountered. The customer spec'd the cheaper of 
	the two Kwik-Jon systems (lighter duty pump) and at the plumbing
	finish stage of the job, (after the pump had sat idle for a couple 
	weeks since its rough-in) the motor wouldn't spin. After some dis-
	assembly, the motor was hand spun and it started OK. Customer has
	since learned to make sure the unit is activated once a week to keep
	it from getting 'stuck' again. So far so good, it's been about six
	months. The other problem is a small leak right around the toilet
	flange when the sewage tank fills. I suspect this was because the
	plumber hadn't done one of these units before and muffed the gasketing
	somehow. Hope this helps you out.

A friend of mine installed such a system in his basement.  His septic system 
was a cesspool of the stacked cinder block variety.  The pressure of the pump
caused the water to hit the other side of the cesspool resulting in a cavein
after about a year.  Not a pleasant experience.  

    
    
    	I might have a need to install a toilet in a basement without
    roughed in plumbing.  
    
    	I was told to get a syphone (sp?) toilet.  I guess it is similar
    to some of the ideas posted here.
    
    My question is, the bathroom that I am planning on building is located
    right next to the washer and dryer.  The Wash Machine has the sewage
    outlet, connection or whatever it is called.  Can't the toilet waste
    go out through that area, somehow?
    
    I would also like to put in a shower and sink.  Since this note hasn't
    been active for a while, is there any new Ideas on this?
    
    This house also has a artesian well and septic system.  So any "don'ts"
    would be apreciated, where that is concerned.
    
    I live in So. NH so would appreciate any suggestions on stores in 
    and around NAshua to check out.

    
    On the height of the drain to the sewer.  
    
    Many washing machines can throw water about 3-4' and thus can be put
    in cellars where the line to the sewer enters the house 2-3' above the
    cellar floor.
    
    If the sewer line enters at a point low enough that the toilet
    connection can be made with sufficient slope then you can use a
    standard toilet.
    
    

    The artiesan well will have no effect on you plan.  The septic system
    probably will not.

	I'd like to put a second (up-flushing) toilet in my cellar. I do not
want to dig thru my cellar floor and there is a nice existing 1.5" pipe already
in my main drain in a very nice location. To add a 2" pipe to the drain would be
a major expense and not end up in a nice location. QWIK-JONs (and every other
type of up-flushing toilet that does not require digging) seem to have a 2"
outlet pipe, and I understand that one cannot constrict this to 1.5". Can anyone
help?
                                                  Thanx,
                                                   Dan

    The 2" pipe may be because of code.  Is it PVC pipe, if it is you may
    be able to get away with 1.5 copper as the inside diamiter of copper
    would be about the same as 2" PVC.
    
    Paul

    re: .1
    
    Err, 2" PVC is the ID not OD.

    WE would like to add a bathroom (sink and toilet only) in our basement.
    We currently have 1 and 1/2 baths upstairs, and the waste line
    runs down into the basement, along the wall(about 4-5 feet from floor),
    eventually leading outside to the septic tank.
    
    is it possible to add the above to the existing waste line which again
    is about 4-5 feet off the floor.....or are we talking about installing
    a second waste line ????  I imagine some type of motor/generator unit
    would have to be used , but at what cost?
    
    thanks!
    Tony

    We did this in our basement two years ago.  You need to install a sealed
    sump pit in the floor to catch the waste.  Inside the pit you
    place a sewage ejector pump that will handle most anything that can be
    flushed.  There are two holes in the top of this pit.  One is for the
    discharge pipe coming from the pump, the other is for a vent stack. 
    The waste lines from the bathroom will run under the floor through a
    hole in the side of this pit.

    The hardest part is breaking out the old concrete.  You'll need on BIG
    hammer for this.  We hired a plumber to do the rest.  So far, no mess, no
    stink, no unexpected problems.

    Cost:

    Plumbing 
      (pit, copper, pcv, valves, ...)	-  $200
    Ejector Pump			-  $200
    Bathroom Fixtures			-  $400
    Plumber (friend of a friend)	-  $300
    Ready Mix Concrete			-   $50
    					   ----
                                          $1150

	    I remember seeing a `stall' unit that you placed on the floor
	and everything was self contained.  Just plumb it and install a
	toilet on it.  These wouldn't be such a good idea for cellars with
	low ceilings because you have to step up onto the platform to go.
	    I don't remember how much one of these units cost.  I think
	they were less than $1150.

					Tim

>    Plumbing 
>      (pit, copper, pcv, valves, ...)	-  $200
>    Ejector Pump			-  $200
>    Bathroom Fixtures			-  $400
>    Plumber (friend of a friend)	-  $300
>    Ready Mix Concrete			-   $50
>    					   ----
                                          $1150

	I've seen the self-contained units advertised in "The Family
	Handyman." I'm sure they're in other similar magazines as well.

	Roy

    Re: .22
    
    When we finished our basement a few years ago, we added a 3/4 bath
    (sink, toilet, shower) to a wasteline setup similar to yours
    (exception: we only had 1 bath upstairs.) 
    
    I didn't like the idea of breaking a hole in the floor to install a
    sump/sewage-ejector system, so we opted for a Zoeller 'Kwik-Jon'.
    It's a self-contained fiberglass tank/pump system that simply rests on
    the floor/slab. Here's my crude attempt at drawing it:
    
    			
    			   | |	 *
    			   | |	 *		(NOT TO SCALE)
    			   | |	 *		* = bathroom wall
    			___|D|___*		^ = bathroom floor
    			|       |*		D = discharge pipe
    			|	|*^^^|T|^^^^    T = toilet inlet
    			|  	-----|T|----	P = sewage pump
    			| ( P )		   |=I	I = additional inlet for
    			| ( P )	   	   |	    sink/shower drains
    			--------------------
    
    The height of the holding chamber is approx 5", which allows you to	
    build a raised floor (on 2x6 sleepers placed on their sides) and	
    tuck this unit between the joists. In our setup, the 'tower' section 
    is on the other side of the bathroom wall, tucked away in a	closet and 
    fully accessable. Toilet rests on 3/4 plywood, centered above the 
    toilet opening. Sink/shower drains run under the floor and have their
    own inlet to the holding chamber. Pump kicks in like a sump (i.e. when
    water level is high enough, pump kicks on and drains the tank. When
    level goes down, pump shuts off.)
    
    No special wiring needed...it plugs into a nearby GFCI-protected outlet 
    inside the closet. (Don't remember the # of amps needed.) PVC discharge
    pipe extends vertically almost to the ceiling, then horizontally (and
    with a slight downward slope) approx 8-10 ft (w/one 90-degree turn) to
    a point where it was ties into our stackpipe. All this plumbing is
    hideen from view from the bathroom, but fully exposed in the closet,
    workroom, and laundry.
    
    Don't remember the exact cost, but the unit itself often goes on sale
    at Somerville Lumber for approx $500. You have to supply your own PVC
    and backflow devices, I believe.
    
    Hope this helps...Good luck.