Conference rdvax::grateful

    I read mostly SF/Fantasy ... I'll go thru 50-75 paperbacks a year. 
    My favorite author is JRR Tolkien, and I've read/re-read "The Lord of
    the Rings" and most of his other works several times.  I also enjoy
    reading anything to do with skiing or sailing.
    
    And also, I like reading Notes ... ;^)
    
    						... Bob
    

    
    I love to read also.  Right now I'm finishing Milan Kundera's _Book of
    Laughter and Forgetting_.  I've really been loving it.. It's somewhat
    autobiographical and therefore very political (Kundera has been banned
    in Czech.) but is also full of life and love and sex and laughter.
    
    Right before this I read _Bluebeard_ by Kurt Vonnegut.  I hadn't read
    him in ages and had forgotten how hysterical his books usually are. 
    This was a good one!
    
    Thanks, Marv, for restarting this topic!  I loved it in Grateful_old.
    
    Phyllis
    

Well I just got done reading:

Socrates' EUTHYPRHO 	(Actually written by Plato since Socrates didn't write
			 anything himself - but it is Plato's notes taken from
		    	 his studies with Socrates)
Plato's   REPUBLIC

dry but insightful 
:)
bob

ps.  I have about 10 books I have to read for a course and those are 2 of
them that I've got thru so far....ahhh so much for the "gut course" :) :) :) 

	I read maybe a book or 2 per year.   Mostly I read the sports pages 
	(when I get the paper), and that's about the extent of my daily 
	reading aside from notes and technical stuff.

	I'm a slow reader, more of an analytical reader I guess, because when 
	I try to read a book, it's like I need to understand and memorize 	
	[trival] facts as if I'm reading a math book or technical manual.  So 
	reading goes extremely slow, and I lose interest really fast.  To me
	it's consistent with why I loved sciences and hated history and english
	lit type courses.
 
	When I do get in the mood (or if I go on a week-long work trip) I like
	to read fantasy stuff like Tolkein, Feist, etc  (dragons and magic
	and all that).
	
	For someone to be able to read 50 or 100 or whatever books per year
	simply astounds me!  

	Ken

I used to be almost exclusively a sci-fi and horror reader (big surprise, I'm
a Stephen King fan ;^), but over the past couple of years have been trying
to expand ....

Right now I'm reading "The Conscious Brain" by Steven Rose ... discusses 
theories around the physical basis for human consciousness, brain physiology,
etc.  Really interesting stuff, well written, not too heavy on the science.
It's a bit outdated though; published in 1975 I think, so I'm sure a lot has
been learned in this field since then.

Some day I'm gonna tackle those classics we have on our living room shelves.
Right now they look real impressive there, though.  ;^)

- Dave

    I just finished reading "Dances With Wolves" last week and I am excited
    to go see the movie tomorrow.
    
    Next things on my list are "Death of a Sales Man" for a English/Drama
    Class.  I have never seen the movie or read the book so it sould be
    interesting - it's such a talked about book/movie.
    
    For My other class which is Philosophy: Ethics - I have to read
    Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics.  This is much more interesting than I 
    thought, I am excited to move on in this class.  Very Thought
    Provoking!!  We also have to read Viktor E. Frankl's "Man's Search For
    Meaning".  I haven't started this yet but it's about Frankl's time
    spent in a concentration camp in WWII.  
    
    I have really been getting into reading more and more weather it be for 
    pleasure or for a class.  It is so much better than TV - JC's comments
    on TV sum that up though.
    
    happy reading -
    
    scottg

    
    >I just finished reading "Dances With Wolves" last week and I am excited
    >to go see the movie tomorrow.
    
    I saw the movie and LOVED it.  Some of the scenery was breathtaking -
    expecially one sceen with the sun setting and the indians riding on top
    of the hill - you can't miss it.  It ranks up on my list of all time
    favorite movies with Harold and Maude, Dead Poet's Society, Breakfast
    Club to name a few.  I plan to see Dances with Wolves again real soon
    since one of my friends has not seen it yet - I said shure I'll see it
    again.  I also plan to see Awakings real soon I have been told by a
    couple of people that it is a must see.
    
    Happy Cheese-
    Jerry

      <<< Note 117.8 by MUSKIE::GEBHART "Politician's throwing stones" >>>
>    For My other class which is Philosophy: Ethics - I have to read
>    Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics.  This is much more interesting than I 
 
This is on my list too!  And I am currently reading this but for the 
lack of how to spell the title I left it out :)  I am currently reading
Book I: The End (hmm I thought that should've been the last book in 
the collection!)

I'm taking an ethics course too....
bob

    I have a tendancy to read more than one book at a time (not at the same
    time, course). So I'm presently enveloped in Vonnegut's "Sirens of
    Titan", a book on Nepalese history, and a book of essays on modern myths 
    by Joseph Campbell. "Sirens of Titan" has gotten the most attention this
    week.

    Just finished reading Mickey's "Drumming at the Edge of Magic".  What a 
greate book - a must read, especially for those of us who like the Rhythm 
Devils segment of the show and don't go running for the bathrooms...
    After I finished that, I bought a book of interviews with Joe Cambell, 
a mythology scholar that Mickey puts a notch below God...  I started to read
it but haven't gotten very far - my college course work is keeping me pretty
busy right now.

I too just finished "Drumming At The Edge Of Magic"

What a wonderful book. I read the first 200 pages in 3 hours while waiting for 
Pam's car to be fixed. Just got back to it the other night and it is 
incredible. I think I might read it again, real soon, after I get it back from 
everyone I've promised to lend it to:-)

Geoff

    re: .10 Bob,
    
    I have the Aristotle book with me today and that is the only way I
    could spell the title. :-)  If you are talking about book one in this
    book - Without getting into a digression of ethics - it is appropriate
    to start with the ultimate end, which is happiness.  If we don't know
    what we are striving for in the "ultimate end" (happiness), then we
    won't know what actions we must perform to strive for the end.
    
    scottg_who_is_still_not_real_good_at_discussing_this_and_is_by_no_means_an_
    expert_since_I_just_started_studing_this_3_days_ago_but_having_fun.

I read about war, politics, murder, rape, business, etc.  It can all be found
in the Boston Globe, which I get delivered daily.

Sometimes I get sick of reading the newspaper; but when I'm away from it for
a few days, I crave it.  I mostly concentrate on the business section -- waiting
for the right moment to break loose and be my own boss I guess.

I also read my monthly Real Estate rag from Vermont and other assorted articles.

Never really got into reading books; this is something I suspect will happen
in the future.

JC

    
    Well.. my guess would be that you're talking about _Galapagos_.  I
    never read it but I know that's the title of one of them, and it makes
    sense, huh?  :-)  Sounds like a good one..
    
    

Just finished:

Into the Heart of Borneo by Redmond O'Hanlan -excellent book, extremely 
insightful, and fairly humorous in an offbeat kind off way. Highly recommended.

also a book by Tony Horowitz about hitchhiking across the outback of australia 
(I can't remember the title right now) not quite as good as O'Hanlan's book but
interesting none the less. He also has a book just published about his *recent*
travels throughout the middle east including Iraq, Iran and a bunch of other 
places called "Baghdad Without a Map", which might be interesting in light of 
recent events, has anyone read it?

jonathan

    Books i'm currently reading:
    
    Zen and the art of motorcycle maint - 2/3 done
    drumming at the edge of magic	- 1/3 done
    clear and present danger		- 1/10 done
    crusade through europe 		- 2/3 done
    
    just finished illusions grate book easy reading
    
    next on the list	the naked ape, unconditonal love.
    
    that is, of course when our apt. is all settled and i have time!
    Tracy is an avid reader who reads approx 3 books a week....
    
    Bruce
    

    >    Zen and the art of motorcycle maint - 2/3 done
    
    One of my favorites!  A grate book!
    
    I too am reading "Drumming".  I gave up on "Clear and Present Danger."  
    (Clancy is getting to formulaic in his themes and writing style.)
    
    Other books I've set aside, but still intend to finish include "Chaos" 
    and "Vineland."

    I scanned through bits and pieces of this book's four hundred
    or so pages.  Good reading for anyone interested in detailed
    information about the !N.S@A, 

 I am finishing up The Great and Secret Show 
by Clive Barker.


I am a big horror fan but I'll read anything I can get my hands on.


Shawn

    I picked up a book just the other day at a store . . . it was sitting
    on their counter and was selling for $3.00.  The title read something
    like this, "Everything A Man Knows About A Woman".  I looked over the
    back cover a bit which had a quick telling tale about the book.  Then
    I opened it up.  All it had inside where blank pages all the way
    through!  I started laughing, I felt like a was caught amoungst a
    joker.  The store clerk looked my way and said, "I thought that book
    was funny too".
    
    --Cathleen

    re. - .1  
    
    i want one!!!!!!
    
    				da ve

	Me too ... where did you see it?

Lisa

  ;-)

    I saw the books in a (don't know where the relationship is, but) 
    boutique that sells lots of hair things, bows, ribbons, elastics, etc.,
    and fashionable jewelrey, shiney earrings, hats, necklaces, etc.
    
    I was going to buy a copy for myself tonight.  I don't know how many
    copies they have (perhaps 6 or 7 that I saw on the counter), but if
    you really want a copy, I can pick them up and you can get them from
    me somehow.  Let me know if you're interested in doing that.  I'll
    be leaving work today at about 5:00.
    
    --Cathleen

    i want one i want one!!!!!!!!!
    
    					da ve

yeah, da ve wants to read it and see if he can learn something!

  john

  just a joke ;-)

       I've been reading Hunter Thompson's, "Generation of Swine, Tales of
  Shame and Degradation in the 80's".   
    
    That guy cracks me up! good sarcastic humor.
    
    Sean

    re .30
    
    :^)  da ve knows that, at least on this subject, he knows naught
    and knows not that he knows naught...  :^)
    
    it's not that i'm unwilling to learn...  it's just that as soon as i
    do, they change the rules!!!!  :^) :^) :^)
    
    				da ve

RE:  <<< Note 117.32 by STRATA::DWEST "Dont Overlook Something Extraordinary" >>>
                                  -< HA! :^) >-

       
   > it's not that i'm unwilling to learn...  it's just that as soon as i
   > do, they change the rules!!!!  :^) :^) :^)
    
    
There aren't any rules! That's the whole problem :^)




Jim

    Improvise dude... improvise.. :-)
    
    "inspiration, move me brightly"

There's rules ... it's just that you're not allowed to know them!  :-)

    Yes, there's rules.. and here they are:  :-)
    
    
				THE RULES
				---------


	 1.  The female always makes the rules.

	 2.  The rules are subject to change at any time without prior
	     notification.

	 3.  No male can possibly know the rules.

	 4.  If the female suspects the male knows all the rules, she
	     must immediately change all or some of the rules.

	 5.  The female is never wrong and always admits it if she is.

	 6.  If the female is wrong, it is because of a flagrant mis-
	     understanding which was a direct result of something the
	     male did or said wrong.

	 7.  If Rule #6 applies, the male must apologize immediately
	     for causing the misunderstanding.

	 8.  The female can change her mind at any given point of time.

	 9.  The male must never change his mind without express written
	     consent from the female.

	10.  The female has every right to be angry or upset at any time.

	11.  The male must remain calm at all times, unless the female
	     wants him to be angry or upset.

	12.  The female must, under no circumstances, let the male know
	     whether or not she wants him to be angry or upset.

	13.  If the female has PMS, all Rules are null and void.

	14.  The male cannot diagnose PMS.

						- Author Unknown

Re:

>				THE RULES
>				---------

	Oh dear, I need to find my barf bag...

	Bob_humourless

>	Oh dear, I need to find my barf bag...
>
>	Bob_humourless


	pass one this way while you're reaching for 'em Bob ....

>	14.  The male cannot diagnose PMS.

Sure he can, but he calls it  Pack My Suitcase.

But seriously, the medical world has discover that men suffer
from a monthly problem they have dubbed SRS or...

*WARNING* next unseen if easily offended

...Sperm Retention Syndrome.

Shawn

    I think that was hilarious, Phyllis. :-)
    
    Mary

    
    Well, that's good.  And since your vote is worth 7 of theirs I guess
    we're okay.
    
    :-)
    
    
    THAT WAS A JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    

    Well, I agree with Mary and Phillis and Lisa ... and I'm serious.
    
    ... Bob (who doesn't see the point in saying it's a joke to people who
             admit to being humourless)
    

    Good point. Bob.
    
    
    IT'S A JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Mary :-)

    ... Lysa just pointed out to me that I spelled Phillis' name wrong ...
    
    IT'S A JOKE !!!		;^)	;^)
    
    ... Bobbb
    

    oh my gosh,.. we have an incoming joke at 12:00,...
    moderators,. grab your sense of humor and hold on!
    If you haven't got one,.. grab the guy's next to you,...
    
    HEY da ve! cut that out!!!
    
    						/
    
    
    
    

I think it is great Phyllis. I've seen it before but I love it still.

Geoff

P.S. Men get UMS

Ugly Mood Swings:-);-)

    
    It's so funny ... and has element (s) of truth 
    
    :-) :-) 
    

	Just finished Hunter S. Thompson's "Songs of the Doomed"
	aka "More Notes on the Death of the American Dream"
	aka "Gonzo Papers Vol. 3"...this included some of his
	writings from the 50's up till now...lots of small snippets
	which were just perfect for vacation reading...what a wild
	man...I love it!...many times I was laughing out loud and
	my kids would say "what's so funny"...how could I EVER explain!

	Also read Bill Wyman's "Stone Alone" - thumbs down on this one.
	Maybe read the first chapter...but FORGET the rest...this man
	has an AMAZING memory for detail (must have kept journals) but
	page after page after page of mundane details does not a good
	book make.  I skimmed the book trying to just read the interesting
	(to me) parts - to get some inside history of the Stones.

	Debess

I'm reading a book about the history of American Railroads, which is a rather
fascinating look at rail travel over the years.  Also just started reading
"Season Ticket" By Roger Angell, an account of 5 baseball seasons (82-87).
I've read the other 3 baseball books this guy has written and love them all.
The subtitle of the book is "A baseball companion".  Great reading for a
fan of the game.





Jim

    
    The Mists of Avalon, by Marion Zimmer Bradley.  It's a retelling of the
    Arthurian legends from the perspective of the women.  I'm enjoying it
    as much as any book I've ever read.. I can't believe it took me this
    long to get to it.  It's the kind of book that as soon as you finish
    it, you run out and buy it for a friend.  
    
    Debess, if you haven't read this yet.. go get it now!  :-)  Seriously,
    I know we've never met in person (yet), but from your notes I believe
    you would love this book.  
    
    Warning:  It may change your life. :-)
    
    

 >The Mists of Avalon

Yes!  Gives a new perspective on what "driving the snakes out of Ireland"
was *really* all about, eh?

	~dave

    
    :-)
    
    Do you know if she ever wrote anything else?
    
    I think I'll have to finish the last 60 pages at lunch..
    
    

    Phyllis ... MZB is a very prolific author.  I have at least a dozen of
    her books (mostly from the Darkover series).  Also, there are several
    related novels by other authors (collectively called the "Friends of
    Darkover).  These are some of my favorite Science Fiction/Fantasy type
    novels. 
    
    ... Bob
    

    
    Thanks, Bobbb.  I haven't read much sci fi so that's probably why her 
    name is unfamiliar to me.
    
    

    Ironically Phyllis, "Mists of Avalon" is probably the only book she's
    written that I haven't read.  Until recently I thought I was burned out
    on Arthur stories so I never read it.
    
    Anyway, Darkover novels aren't your basic "space ships & battles" type
    of sci fi.  MZB is a great writer ... obviously a feminist ... and her
    stories tend to make statements about real life social conditions,
    particularly as pertains to the relationships between men and women. 
    Her characters and the world she created for them have a depth rarely
    found in SF type novels ... the kind that make it hard to put the book
    down till you find out how it ends.  And rather than discourage
    imitation, she encourages up and coming writers to use her characters
    and their world in short stories and novelettes that she then edits and
    publishes under the name "Friends of Darkover".  The result is a world
    that seems very real with all it's diverse cultures, races, legends,
    and history.
    
    If you are interested, I suggest you start with "Darkover Landfall". 
    There is no particular sequence to the series ... each Darkover novel
    is a standalone book ... but it helps to read the story of how the
    planet Darkover came to be settled by humans in the first place, and
    some of the things they found when they got there.
    
    ... Bob
    

>       <<< Note 117.57 by BOOKS::BAILEYB "This space reserved for Bob" >>>
>                    -< MZB is one of the best there is ... >-
>
>    Ironically Phyllis, "Mists of Avalon" is probably the only book she's
>    written that I haven't read.  Until recently I thought I was burned out
>    on Arthur stories so I never read it.
 

Bob,

Read it!!! When I read it I too was burned out on the Arthurian legend. I had 
been reading books about it since I was 10 and thought I would never get 
enough. Then I just didn't feel like reading about it any more. My mother 
turned me on to TMOA and I loved it. A neat perspective.

Geoff

    
    Thanks for the info, Bob.  I'll definately put them on my
    (ever-growing) to be read list.  
    
    :-)
    
    

Hey Bbb and Phyllis - this sounds like stuff I would like to read!!
Bbb, do you have a copy of the first book you mentioned which I can
borrow ... I'll trade you your Tolkien .... ;^)
    

    I just finished the Breach by Rob Taylor...quite a story - the man
    is definitely insane.
    
    Heidi

    I just started "A Forest Journey - The Role of Wood in the Development
    of Civilization". It would more aptly be called "The Role of Civilization 
    in the Deforestation of the Planet". Fascinating stuff.

	"The Mists of Avalon" ;-) ;-) ;-)

    
    :-) :-) :-)
    
    I just finished a book of short stories by Truman Capote called _Music
    for Chameleons_.  I loved it.. a lot of it was really hysterical.
    
    I'm about to start John Irving's _Cider House Rules_.
    
    

    Just started Ed Abbey's "Desert Solitaire".
    
    - Gerry

RE:                    <<< Note 117.66 by SA1794::GLADUG >>>

>    Just started Ed Abbey's "Desert Solitaire".
    
How weird, I've started that book too! Its been sitting on my nightstand a 
while though, cuz I haven't had much time lately for reading (been packing), 
but its #1 in my queueue!


Fog_who_is_still_ketchin'_up_on_unseens_from_last_week...

I read a book called _The Education of Little Tree_ by Forrest Carter recently.
It was fantastic!!! It's about an Indian child, Mr. Carter,  being raised as
an Indian by his grandparents. It really got to me with it's wild swings of
extreme joy and sadness. 

:-Chuck 

    I'm reading "Welcome to the Monkey House," a collection of short
    stories by Kurt Vonnegut.  The strange thing is that the day I read the
    title story, I read in the paper that he was starting a television
    series called "The Monkey House" on Showtime, which we don't get, of
    course.  Stranger still, the story concerns a "rape" at the Kennedy
    Compound (Hyannis, not Palm Beach, though).  High wierdness -- exactly
    what I needed.
    
    Jamie

A friend gave me the "The Education Of Little Tree" for a Christmas
gift....soon to be read now that I don't have to read for school.

Rae gave me a book just yesterday called something like "Grand Monadnock"
with some great pictures and what looks like a thourough history or the
mountain and surrounding area.  One thing I didn't know that I spied
while flipping through the pages was that they say Monadnock surpassed
Mount Fuji as the most walked (climbed) mountain with over 125k people
a year (I'm usually one :) but only spring/fall to avoid the zoo).

happy readin',
bob


ps.  some man actually walked up Monadnock 365 consecutive days.
pps. another has climbed it 1000 times - and says even though he's done
     all the 4k's in NH he wondered if he'd still enjoy Monadnock....
     says he likes it better.

    Marv..your absolutley right about this unproven fact....matter of fact
    the person who started this rumor is a gent named Charlie Royce (sorry
    Charlie if your name is misspelled) who is a schoolteacher and also
    was once one of the rangers or whatever you call them who was involved
    with the Monadnock park.  I guess what happened was that Charlie was 
    asked so many times about how many people climbed it (and knowing Fuji
    was climbed lots) that he eventually began saying that it was the 
    second most climbed mountain in the world....I know Charlie and over
    several beers at a teachers party several years ago he told us the
    secret.  In the past two years there was a guy who was part of the
    construction crew for the Shattuck Inn Golf Course who climbed it every
    day...and then after all of that he climbed it with someone on his
    back!  Charlie also had some interesting stories about rescues which
    occur almos every winter....and then of course there is an occasional
    plane crash every other year.  There also is a local rumor that there
    is a cave somewhere on the mountain that was used to relay radio
    messages to German submarines during WWII....who knows?
    That book about Grand Monadnock is great to brouse through and offers
    some fun things to look for and do while you climb.  Bob is right about
    the good times to climb...ya got to pick them.  Every year they do have
    a moonlight climb and sometimes it goes hand in hand with the Jaffrey
    Jubalee which offers one of the better fire works display in
    NewEngland.  Early morning climbs are fun and offer minimal traffic.
    
    rich

re:          <<< Note 117.72 by LANDO::HAPGOOD "now we play for life" >>>
   
    >One thing I didn't know that I spied while flipping through the pages 
    >was that they say Monadnock surpassed Mount Fuji as the most walked 
    >(climbed) mountain with over 125k people a year 

    At 125k/year that's at least 342 people per day - 365 days per year! Sure 
    Monadnock's crowded, but not *that* crowded. 
    
    Ger_who_klimbed_Monadnock_every_other_day_for_two_weeks_alternating_days_
    with_local_klimbs_to_get_into_shape_for_a_14_day_trip_once.

I was just typing in what I read you guys!  :) I dunno how they pick those
figures. Here's something for ya - show me something where it says
fuji is climbed more than monadnock and I'll retort it with something in
print that says it's the other way around :) :) :) - I belive what you
say about royce though - that's how these widely accepted "rural myths" :)
start gaining belief....

I went up Pack Monadnock at a swift (for me) pace of 35 minutes last
saturday doing just what you were doing Mr. Gerg.  Gonna do Mt. Magalloway
this weekend (Pittsburgh, NH)

bob

ps.  just fyi - if they said in the book "bob, if you jump off a big rock
and close your eyes, a little angel will catch you and give you 3 wishes"
I wouldn't believe it - so I get your points :) you can't always believe
what you read....


>    At 125k/year that's at least 342 people per day - 365 days per year! Sure 
>    Monadnock's crowded, but not *that* crowded. 
 
Gerg,  I have seen it look like a beach up there with people EVERYWHERE 
sunning themselves but that fig sounds far fetched when looking at it 
the way you put it.

>    construction crew for the Shattuck Inn Golf Course who climbed it every

and to add to it all, Rich, I was with a friend who golfs (I don't) this 
past weekend and told him about this place and he said a friend of his lost
32 balls there because of all the water, swamp etc traps around....can this
be?  sounds like an expensive way to "play" golf.

:) :) :)
bob 

ps.  it ain't "believe it if you read it" it's "believe it if you need it"!
:)

    Bob eeeeeesss true I am an experienced golfer (11 hdcp) and have played 
    there with better golfers...one round I lost at least 10 balls and
    another lost over a doze....however whence you learn the course and
    play smart (never use your driver and get off the tees straight) that
    number can drop down to a mere two or three...yes it is tough but
    gorgeous.....I'm gonna set up a golf ball factory in Jaffre..;^/
    
    rich

re golf:

wow!  so the guy wasn't pulling my leg!

and back to monadnock- 
ya know I went home and checked my book out again - "Grand Monadnock",
and they said something to the effect of this> since they installed
public transportation on Mt. Fuji, Monadnock has surpassed it in 
the number of people *climbing* the mountain every year.

And Gerg, they indeed say 125K....I had to recheck this cause it did
seem far fetched.  

And like Marv said earlier - how would they know?  They don't count.

And Rich - you spelled Charles Royce's name correctly.  He has a speel
in there in the back of the book.

bob

ps.  there is another Monadnock way way up in VT on the VT/CAN border so 
sometime ago "they" changed the o-fish-al name of the NH one to GRAND 
Monadnock....

    Yoy know Bob this brings up a whole new discussion (125k people up
    Grande Monodunk)...you see it goes this way...when the folks 
    who had the money to build this nice golf course (which btw minimizes
    distruction to the natural habitants) the town was in a uproar about
    how many people it would start dragging into this pristine community
    (har-har) this was spoken by the Concerned Citizens of Jaffrey (which
    Mr. Royce was part of and publilshes a little paper now and then)
    many of who are transplants from Newark and other fine places..any how
    they were soooo damn concerned about Jaffrey turning into another
    NEwark etc that they gave the people who built the course so
    much F@#$in grief it was ridiculous they even made reference to some
    town in Ohio that was originally a population of 3-5k and because of
    the new golf course grew to 15-20k..any how not ONCE did any of these
    hippocrytical blow hards mentionl the 125 thousand that trample down 
    and up this mountain every year and do far more damage to the
    enviroment and has done nothing to increase the populus of the area
    .... alll they did is come up with every excuse possible to stop the
    building of this golf course which if you have time is well worth 
    walking and is encouraged by the owners whether you play or not
    (you can Xcountry there in the winter)....
    
    My next move.....turn the Mountain into a ski area and really pump
    some revenue into an economically depressed area..take that and 
    eat it Concerned Citizens of Jaffrey...and you to Charlie Royce!!!!
    
    
    rich

>    .... alll they did is come up with every excuse possible to stop the
>    building of this golf course which if you have time is well worth 
>    walking and is encouraged by the owners whether you play or not

	this sounds WONDERFUL!!! I have always thought it would be
	so sensuous to walk thru a golf course's beautifully
	manicured greenways barefoot...but I never had an interest
	in picking up the game and I figured it would be a big
	no-no to just walk thru a course for the pleasure of it...
	then on top of that to have a view of Monadnock...sounds
	pretty heavenly Rich!

	Debess

    .....when I was younger I did several other things on golf courses that 
    were (ahem) equally as sensuous.....not in the day time though... :0
    
    rich

yeah!  That's it!  let's build a BIG lodge at the top and a road
to get there (isn't there an old road thereabouts?).  What fun it 
would be!  :) 

As for walking a golf course - do it with a frisbee and play 
golf-bee.  Try to hit the pin (or cup) in the minimum number of shots.

bob

    
    Alright I have a question for all of ya.  Since I am only a part time
    member of MA the things I did last summer become very faded.  Last
    summer I went on a hike that was very easy - mostly dirt paths.  I
    believe it was in MA.  The view at the top was incrediable on a clear
    day.  The top of the Mt. was lots of rocks and usually a large
    gathering of people at the top.  It was a state park.  For some reason
    I remember the name of it as being Mt. Monadnock.  Am I right???  The
    reason I ask is that my girlfriend is coming to visit next weekend and
    I would like to take her on a peaceful and beautiful hike.  She is not
    a hiker so the hike would have to be a very easy one.  Any
    suggestions??????
    
    Happy Cheese-
    Jerry

Re: 125k people / year on Monadnock

I believe it.  Go up there on a fair weather Saturday or Sunday and you'll
believe it.  Deb and I once hiked it and there was a band on TOP !!!  They
hiked all of their gear up to the top.

Re; Jerry

Sounds like Monadnock to me.  Monadnock, IMO, is easy.  But, easy is all
relative mon; for example, what is somewhat easy to me is hard for my
girl friend.  What is medium to difficult for me is impossible for Deb.
If y'all don't smoke or have any serious knee or respiratory problems,
then Monadnock should be easy.

Peaceful?   I dunno.  Expect to see lots of people (of all ages, including
whining kids saying, "When are we going to get there???") on weekends...

Enjoy it......... JC

    For the most part Monadnock is easy and there are many trails..Bob
    you are right about the road but it only goes about 1/4 of the way
    the toughest part of the hike is about the last 1/4 when you get to 
    the top part...a good long hike is up the Pompelli trail which starts
    on the Dublin side of the Mt. and goes  up an entire ridge....you 
    gotta look for this trail on the road that goes around Dublin lake 
    which is on rte 101....on the golf course I was there yesterday
    and lost all my balls..any way I asked about walking and the guy said
    that as long as people stay on the cart paths its ok (an occasional
    sprint on the green with know one around might not be bad)
    
    rich

Yeah Rich,

the Pompelli trail is probably the nicest, prettiest and least crowded
way up the mountain....for other people's info - the amc guide will tell
you how to get to this trailhead.  It's a longer hike somewhere between
4 and 5 miles as opposed to the steeper ones accessed via the state park 
that are around 2 to 3 miles.

promontory rider
territory RANGER!
:)
bob the part time hiker  as opposed to the full timers of this conf!

Joseph Campbell on the Dead...
                      .
                      .
                      .

      JC: Then the next great, proud moment was when Mickey Hart
      and Bob Weir come along and tell me I've helped them. 
      Well, I never--the rock music never appealed to me at
      all.  It was largely monotonous, it seemed to me
      [laughter].  Then they invited Jean and me to an event
      in Oakland [California] that just became a dance
      revelation.  I got something there that made me note
      that this is magic.  And it's magic for the future.

      interviewer:  How so?
       
      JC: They hit a level of humanity that makes everybody
      at one with each other.  It doesn't matter about this
      race thing, this age thing, I mean, everything else
      dropped out.  The wonderful thing was, compared to the
      Hitler rallies that you see in the film [The Hero's
      Journey] that were used for a political purpose, here
      it was just the experience of the identity of
      everybody with everybody else.

      I was carried away in a rapture.  And so I am a
      deadhead now [laughter].



    excerpt from

         _The Hero's Journey_
           Joseph Campbell on his life and work
    
          Edited by Phil Cousineau
    HarperCollins
    Paper $14.95
    ISBN  0-06-250171-2

    (A collection of transcripts of conversations with
    Joseph Campbell, mostly from around the time when
    filming _The Hero's Journey_    very interesting,
    warm, and accessible, encapsulating quite
    succinctly what Joseph Campbell was all about.
    The above quote is just about the only mention
    of the Dead in the book.)
    
    
    /bruce
    
    

    I spent an hour in a bookstore last night and couldn't find anything worth 
    reading. So I'm re-reading Dee Brown's "Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee".
    (I wanted to re-read Kerouac's "The Dharma Bums" but couldn't find my copy 
    of it.)
    
    - Gerry

A couple baseball related books.







Jim

    
    Winters Tale by Mark Helprin.
    
    To the point of diversion, apparently.  I ended up at 28th St. this
    morning.
    
    Phyllis_who_works_at_34th_Street
    
    

	Notes...

    
    
    re:-.1  :^)
    
    I just finished "Lightning" by Dean Koontz.  I would recommend it to
    those of you that like Time Travel epics crossed with a half decent
    plot.  A joy to read, I finished it in just one week (330 pages or so).
    
    That's quick for my short attention span!
    
    Treemon

re:                      <<< Note 117.93 by DIGGIE::RILEY >>>
       
   > I just finished "Lightning" by Dean Koontz.  I would recommend it to
    

I got half way thru that one once then put it down for some reason. I
was enjoying it but I think I got a new Stephen King and he takes priority
over all else ;-) IMO.


Anyways right now I'm reading  Lord Foul's Bane by Stephen R. Donaldson
the first chronicle of Thomas Covenant.


Shawn

    
    Shawn,
    
    Please let me know what your opinion of Lord Foul's Bane is when you're
    done...  I've heard good things about it, but never read it.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Tree

re:                      <<< Note 117.95 by DIGGIE::RILEY >>>

    
   Will do. 

So far I'm 1/3 thru it. Pretty good so far.
When i read something the depending on the style of writing is how 
I get feelings from it. This one seems to be a cross between the 
GOR series and The Many Colored Land, with a taste of Lord of the Rings.
Although so far the evil entities don't seem so evil, just slightly disturbing.

Shawn

    I read the Thomas Covenant series when they were first written.  Now
    that you guys are talking about it, I just may go back and read them
    again.
    
    Get ready for a summer's worth of reading ... Lord Foul's Bane is but
    the first of nine books in the series.  IMO - it's the strongest of the
    nine.  This is an excellent 3-part series (each part consisting of a
    trilogy).  But toward the end it starts getting a little weak.  Besides
    which, I had a lot of trouble understanding the "hero" ... Thomas
    Covenant.  At times he gets downright depressing ... not to mention
    that he doesn't treat his friends very well.
    
    Despite all that, Donaldson's setting (the Land) is literally alive and
    vibrant.  You fall in love with the world as much as the characters. 
    And instead of the same old tired Anglo-white heroes, many of the best
    characters are of other races, or cultures that more closely resemble
    aborigines than Europeans.
    
    And if you think the bad guys aren't evil enough, you just haven't read
    far enough yet.  Lord Foul and the Ravers are a baaaad bunch of dudes.
    
    The entire series is highly imaginative, if somewhat morose at times. 
    I'd rate it as one of the top five fantasy series in print.  If you
    make it past the first book, I'd say you're gonna have a hard time
    putting it down till you either finish all nine books or burn out in
    the process.
    
    ... Bob
    

re:       <<< Note 117.97 by BOOKS::BAILEYB "Let my inspiration flow ..." >>>
   
   >    Get ready for a summer's worth of reading ... Lord Foul's Bane is but
   > the first of nine books in the series.  IMO - it's the strongest of the
    
9 BOOKS YIKES!!!  I didn't realize it was that big. But I have been looking 
for a new series to start, so I think I've found the one.

Bobb,

If possible could you send me a list with all the titles so I can start
to build my collection. The wife will love me bringing in,"MORE BOOKS!"
as she would say.
    
       
   > And if you think the bad guys aren't evil enough, you just haven't read
   > far enough yet.  Lord Foul and the Ravers are a baaaad bunch of dudes.
    
I'm sure they'll get worse. But it just seems at this point that Covenant
is a worse character than them.



Thanks for the insight,

Shawn
    

    
    I just finished reading "The Witching Hour" by Anne Rice.  This is a
    multi-generational story about a family of witches.  It also details
    the story of those who watch the witches. 
    
    If you've reading any of Anne Rices' vampire books (Interview With A
    Vampire, etc) and liked them then this book is definitely for you.  I
    felt it was her best written book, however at almost 1000 pages they
    could have edited it somemore without losing content.
    
    Am currently reading a piece of trash call "The Gold Coast".  It is a
    generic story about rich people and their new Mafia neighbor.  Mindless
    reading.
    
    Regards,
    
    Fredda 

    Hey Bob,
    
    There's nine Thomas Covenant books?  I know about the first & second
    chronicles (the first two trilogies), and Gildenfire, which contains
    a chapter that was cut from the first trilogy, but I didn't know there
    were others.  What are they?  I really enjoyed the first two trilogies
    (in fact, I've been rereading the first trilogy for the last month,
    and am now in the middle of the last book.  Lots of things I missed
    the first time through).  It's also fun to see how Donaldson's writing
    style matures as he progresses through the series.
    
    By the way, for those that enjoy Donaldson's style, I learned recently
    that he's also written three mystery books under a pseudonym, Donald
    Stephens, I believe.  I haven't looked them up, so I don't know if
    they're any good, but if you're interested...
    

    Jim H ...you mentioned a ways back that you were reading two bazeboll
    related books....I am looking for something like that to take on 
    vacation .....could you tell me what then names and who the authors
    are and if they are in paperback?.....I have not read a bazeboll
    book in ages...matter of fact the last sports book I read was
    Sports in America by Michner and that was ten years ago.
    
    thanx
    rich

Right now I'm reading "Season Ticket" By Roger Angell, and about to get started
on Men at Work by George Will..


I highly recommend anything by Roger Angell..he's an editor for the New Yorker
Magazine and during the summer writes a column in the mag about baseball.  Every
5 years they gather up the columns and publish them in a book.  So far I've read
his 3 other books, the oldest of which covers the early 70's..excellent baseball
reading regardless of the season about which he is writing.  He's also a die
hard Red Sox fan and Mets (Blecch) fan and the book I'm reading now covers the
World Series of you know when..its in paperback I think (I got the copy I'm
reading at the library)


Men at Work is supposedly quite good, a real technical look at the game..it is
available in paperback.



Check out Roger Angell though...excellent vacation reading.




Jim

    RE .100
    
    John, you're right.  There were only six books.  I was thinking there
    was a trilogy for each trip Covenant took to the Land, but the first
    two trips were in the first trilogy.  Anyway, it's been a long time
    since I read them.  And now that I've gone to the trouble of digging
    them out of the back of the bookshelves (I've got my books stacked two
    deep and two high in each shelf), I'm gonna read them again.
    
    RE .98
    
    The 1st trilogy is:	Lord Foul's Bane
    			The Illearth War
    			Power that Preserves
    
    The 2nd trilogy is:	The Wounded Land
    			The One Tree
    			White Gold Wielder
    
    							... Bob
    

	..Book 4: Bathrooms. Chapter 3: Toilets. 

			Page 87: Replacing the Spud Washer.

Fog

    ahhhh, the joys of home ownership_P...
    
    				:^)
    
    				da ve

    bake the spuds.....
    
    rich I love owning a home and doing all the work and spending all the
    money and all the things that break when your broke and gardening and
    painting and running outta room cause of all the stuff you bought
    to take care of the damn place then running outta room (thats why
    you bought the place to begin with to have extra room)and looking
    for a BIGGER PLACE just so you can start the cycle all over again
    ooops forgot the connectors.
    
    

    connectors ? I thought you were shotting for the longest run-on award !
    
    Chris

RE:   <<< Note 117.107 by MSHRMS::FIELDS "gee this soda smells very orangey" >>>
                         -< have a few on me "_ _ _" >-

   > connectors ? I thought you were shotting for the longest run-on award !
    
    
     No shotting in here!





:^)

    hanging around the house this weekend, i found a book in our living
    room that i had heard a lot about and wanted to read but never got
    around to it...  as of yesterday i have o-fish-ally started reading
    "On The Road" by Jack Kerouac...
    
    					da ve

I've been wanting to read that myself, da ve..right now I'm reading "Revenge
of the Babysat" :^)  A Calvin and Hobbes book that one o' my kids got me for
Father's day.  





Jim

    Thanks Jim H....bought Men at Work over the weekend and started to
    enjoy it...lots of stuffff you never thought about while watching
    a ball game...excellent reading
    
    rich

O.k, Last night I read "You and your new Airtight Federal". Fascinating stuff;
the woodstove that came with our house is one hell of a high-tech piece! 
Sheesh, I've been heating with wood for eight years, and never saw anything 
with a Thermostatically-controlled air intake, not to mention a Corning ceramic 
catalytic combustor. Yikes, I'm outta my league!

Tonight, its "You and your new Snapper Comet HV ride-on Mower"	:-)

DamnedifiknowP

    Fog...fire up that old wood stove tonite and get it crankin....does
    the snapper cut down trreesss.....
    
    rich

Books I've read/re-read in the last week.

Glory Road - Robert Heinlein
Stranger In A Strange Land - Robert Heinlein
Time Enough For Love - Robert Heinlein
Star Trek The Next Generation, Metamorphis 
Star Trek The Next Generation, Strike Force 
Star Trek The Next Generation, Exiles

All are good. The Heinlein books are of a higher caliber than the Star Trek 
books but all are fun reading. 

Geoff 

    You read all that in a week Geoff?
    
    							/
    

>     <<< Note 117.115 by STAR::SALKEWICZ "It missed... therefore, I am " >>>
>                                  -< amazing >-
>
>    You read all that in a week Geoff?
>    
>    							/
 

	Well, I had some help. I had a hernia operation last Monday and wasn't 
allowed to do anything all week and I can't stand mindless daytime tv. 
Mindless nighttime tv is another story:-)

Geoff   

"No user serviceable parts inside"

				      \|/
				      -*-)
				      /|\

    
    
    come on fog!  surely you're not going to let a little thing like
    *that* stop you???  
    
    				da ve_anticipating_an_"Airplane"-type_
    				of_reply :^)

  Tree had asked me to put in my opinion of Lord Foul's Bane
when I finished. Well I finished it a while ago so... well
better late than never, as they say. 
I liked it but found Covenant to be a real jerk. 
I also have alot of other things to say but am not sure how
to put my feelings on it into words. So many aspects had me "disturbed".
Hopefully it will get better as the series continues.

After finishing that i read Twilight Eyes by Dean R. Koontz
A wonderful piece of horror. IMO

Now I reading the second book in the Covenant chronicles
and a book called Bare Bones: Conversations of terror with Stephen King.

Shawn

    
    Well,
     Thanks for putting it in!  I just finished reading the Dark Half by
    Stephen King and really enjoyed it.  Though some of the happenings
    within the book are farther fetched than I prefer, I couldn't put it
    down!
    
    What next?  I may tackle King's "The Stand", but I'm not quite sure
    yet.
    
    Tree

re:         <<< Note 117.120 by DIGGIE::RILEY "eeeeeeeeeegoneeeeeeeeee" >>>

    
   >     Thanks for putting it in!  I just finished reading the Dark Half by
   > Stephen King and really enjoyed it.  Though some of the happenings
   > within the book are farther fetched than I prefer, I couldn't put it
   > down!
   
There was one part in there that is the only piece of writing that has ever
giving me a real creepy feeling. The part where they were doing brain
surgery on the guy. That's all I'll say for those that haven't read it.


 
>    What next?  I may tackle King's "The Stand", but I'm not quite sure
>   yet.
    
 DO IT!!! It's well worth it. After 11 readings I still love every page.

Shawn

A second vote for "The Stand" ... one of my favorite books by Stephen King.
Think of reading it as going on a journey ...  :^)

    
    Welp,
    
    That's all I needed to push me off the fence...  The Stand it is!  And
    I can start tonight since we already have it!
    
    Thanks for the advice, and journey?  I can't wait...
    
    meTree

Just watch out for that Walking Dude.

BTW which Stand do you have, the original or the "uncut".

Hey dc did I hear you sneeze;-).
Because I just....aa a a aahhhhhahhhhhhCHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 

oh nooooooooooo

Shawn

Hmm ... got some purplish triangular bruises on my neck ... 8^O

- dc

    
    uncut...  = more reading!
    
    re: walking dude & purplish triangular bruises...
    
    I won't ask since I have a feeling I'll probably know soon enough!

>    I won't ask since I have a feeling I'll probably know soon enough!

hehehehehehehehehehe 8-)

Shawn

    I've been reading "The Stand" now for several months,..
    
    I read until I fall asleep,... and I can never remember what page I was
    on when I passed out,.. so I'm still in the early stages of the
    book,...reading some parts four or five times....
    
    Seems weird for now,.. can't tell where its going...
    
    
    							/
    

	I've been reading K&R of late....

The Stand is also one of my favorite books by SK. I've read it several times. 
Every time I want to read it I have to buy a new copy, because after I finish 
it I lend it to someone who hasn't readit and I never see it again...

At the Moment I'm reading "Footfall" by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournell. A 
wonderful book about aliens,  that look like baby elephants, invading the 
earth.

Geoff

    
    I'm reading Love Medicine by Louise Erdrich.  It was good until this
    morning on the bus when I finished Chapter 9.  Now it's great. :-)
    All of her books are about Native Americans - their relationships to
    each other, to the earth, to non-Indians, life on the reservation, etc.
    I read Tracks several years ago, but I'm enjoying this one even more. 
    (I believe this one is her first novel).  I've also heard great things
    about The Beet Queen but have never read it.
    
    

    I just passed the half-way point in  reading The Stand (uncut)-- let's
    see right now the Trashcan Man has reached Cibola and the Kid was about
    to be lunch for some crazed Wolves -- I'm gald I moved out here before
    I read this book -- makes being able to picture places like Boulder and
    the Eisenhower Tunnel and even Kansas a lot easier...
    -- I'm with Slash - Read 'til I fall asleep and backtrack a couple pages
    every night to catch back up where I left off  --  who said
    they've read this thing 11 times!  Yowza! Let's see if it takes me three
    months to read it once - that would be 33 months of reading - that's
    almost two and a half years of reading for me!  At that rate I would
    have only read a total of ten books my whole life!  ;^) 
                

re:         <<< Note 117.132 by DEC25::INGALLS "Earth Day - Every Day" >>>
                        -< Here I come Mother Abigail! >-

   > every night to catch back up where I left off  --  who said
   > they've read this thing 11 times!  Yowza! Let's see if it takes me three
                    
Believe it or not. I have read it 11 times. The original edition 10 and the 
uncut 1 time, so far. ;-)

 Even thou I've read it that many times I still made the mistake in an
earlier note of refering to Denver instead of Boulder 8-}. 
Guess it's time to pick it up again.

I think I was 10 years of age when I first read it, I'd have to see when it was 
originally published. 

Shawn

    just outta curiosity  -- how much longer is the uncut version vs the
    originally released edited version?  

re:         <<< Note 117.134 by IMTDEV::INGALLS "Earth Day - Every Day" >>>
                             -< more on The Stand >-

   > just outta curiosity  -- how much longer is the uncut version vs the
   > originally released edited version?  

I think it's about 500 MANUSCRIPT pages, which equals somewhere between
300 - 400 published pages.

Shawn

    Just picked up David Gans' new book "Conversations with the Dead".
    It's a book full of interviews with various members of the Dead
    over the years - including the first ever published interview 
    with Bear (from January 13, 1991). By far the most in depth 
    interview of the bunch. Should make good reading on the train
    down to the Garden tomorrow.
    
    - Gerry

  Stephen King's Latest, Needful Things. This is according to
King his last story to take place in Castle Rock Maine.

 I'll miss going back to Castle Rock for more adventures, but
I guess one town can only have so many bad things happen 
within it's borders. ;-)

 I also started The Lord of the Rings again. I'm almost done 
with The Hobbit (prelude to LOTR). Everytime I read this
series I never finish it, I end up putting it down mid-way
through The Two Towers. This time I vow to finish.

Shawn

RE:          <<< Note 117.137 by CSLALL::BRIDGES "Water *IS* a liquid" >>>

  
 >I guess one town can only have so many bad things happen 
>within it's borders. ;-)

 
  Maybe he can write about Elvis and why he keeps popping up in Derry NH :^)




   Jim

    re .137
    
    	Oh man,.. you've *GOT* to finish it. I know it gets a little
    slow there in the middle of Two Towers,... but hang in there. Things
    do pick up again in a big way later on.... its worth it!!!!
    
    							/
    

> I also started The Lord of the Rings again. I'm almost done 
>with The Hobbit (prelude to LOTR). Everytime I read this
>series I never finish it, I end up putting it down mid-way
>through The Two Towers. This time I vow to finish.
    
    My eleven year old daughter, Jessica, just did a book report on LOTR -
    she's in 6th grade.  She got an 'A', and I think her teacher's jaw is
    still on her desk. :-)
    
    tim(_a_k_a_Dad)
    

re:    <<< Note 117.138 by CSLALL::HENDERSON "Li'l red light on the highway" >>>

RE:          <<< Note 117.137 by CSLALL::BRIDGES "Water *IS* a liquid" >>>

  
 >I guess one town can only have so many bad things happen 
>within it's borders. ;-)

 
 > Maybe he can write about Elvis and why he keeps popping up in Derry NH :^)


Actually in this one there is a scene that involves Elvis (a memory of not
a post-death sighting thou ;-).

Shawn

re:     <<< Note 117.139 by STAR::SALKEWICZ "It missed... therefore, I am " >>>
   
   >    	Oh man,.. you've *GOT* to finish it. I know it gets a little
    
I hear ya /,

 Everyone I talk to that's read LOTR says about the same thing. What
used to always happen was that a new SK book would come out (being the
prolific writer he is ;-) and I could never wait to pick it up. So
while SK sat on the shelf I plodded through LOTR, the only thing keeping me
going was the fast pace of the story, then WHAM it seems to die down for
a bit. I get bored. Then put LOTR down. 

 But Now that I'm FINALLY able to read 3 - 4 books concurrently without
getting confused ;-} I'm determined to finish LOTR.      

Shawn

RE:                 <<< Note 117.140 by SCAM::GRADY "tim grady" >>>
   
>    My eleven year old daughter, Jessica, just did a book report on LOTR -
>    she's in 6th grade.  She got an 'A', and I think her teacher's jaw is
>    still on her desk. :-)
    
 Well ALRIGHT for Jessica, that is quite a feat. A book report on 4 books
instead of one. I HATED doing book reports, which really puzzled my mother
considering I never took my nose out of books.

Shawn

I'm reading the uncut version of the Stand by Steven King. 

It is good but it has been altered from the original manuscript. It must be 
because in 1979 when the Stand was first published, AIDS had not been heard of 
by more than a select few, Roger Rabbit wasn't even an idea in anyones head 
and several of the song titles he mentions weren't written until at least 
1984.

It's still good though...

Geoff

re:  <<< Note 117.144 by AIMHI::KELLER "The BoR, Void Where Prohibited by law" >>>
                            -< The Stand, again... >-

>I'm reading the uncut version of the Stand by Steven King. 

>It is good but it has been altered from the original manuscript. It must be 
>because in 1979 when the Stand was first published, AIDS had not been heard of 
>by more than a select few, Roger Rabbit wasn't even an idea in anyones head 
>and several of the song titles he mentions weren't written until at least 
>1984.

 Actually Geoff, the uncut version *IS* the orginal manuscript. When he first
went to publish they insisted he cut 500 manuscript pages. The only difference
from the original is they moved the time-frame up about 10 years, give or take.
Hence the references to Roger Rabbit and AIDS. But if you read real closely
you can find things referred to that apply to the original time-frame but
not the new. I don't have any examples from memory, but I could find some
if interested. 

Shawn

    
    
    ...And I just finished the uncut Stand...
    
    Some nice reading all around.  I wish I hadn't taken quite as long to
    do it, but 1150 pages is the biggest book I've made it through, and he 
    definitely did keep my interest (understatement)...
    
    I do recommend it to all, it really didn't "scare" me at all, just made
    me think :^)
    
    Now onto Pirsig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance...  I
    started it once but didn't get too far (don't remember why)...
    
    Also on my list and just acquired...  Mickey Hart's Drumming at the
    Edge of Magic.  Has anyone here read it?  Is it appropriate book for
    reading cover to cover?  I know that sounds stupid but you catch my
    drift...
    
    Treemon
     

>          <<< Note 117.145 by CSLALL::BRIDGES "Water *IS* a liquid" >>>
>
                            -< The Stand, again... >-

>
> Actually Geoff, the uncut version *IS* the orginal manuscript. When he first
>went to publish they insisted he cut 500 manuscript pages. The only difference
>from the original is they moved the time-frame up about 10 years, give or take.
>Hence the references to Roger Rabbit and AIDS. But if you read real closely
>you can find things referred to that apply to the original time-frame but
>not the new. I don't have any examples from memory, but I could find some
>if interested. 
>
>Shawn


I have no doubt that it is the original manuscript. I just wanted to point out 
to people that it had been updated. I'm not complaining, I am definitely 
loving it as much as the original published version, which I have read many 
times.

Geoff

 AH, I see. A little misunderstanding on my part. 

re: reading many times. 
  That's one thing I love about the Stand, I never get tired of it.
Now the next time I reread it (the Stand, not IT ;-) i have to decide
which version. 8-)

oh BTW, if I thought you were complaining I would have blasted ya reallllll
good. (just kidding, of course 8-)

Shawn A DEVOTED King FAN.

    I'm reading The Stand (uncut) as well. Never read the old one.
    Decent book.

I'm currently reading Alan Dean Foster's CYBERWAY.

not bad - first book I've read by him and I'm only 1/3 of the
way through.  Anybody ever read anything by him?

John Hamby mentioned Wiliam Gibson in another note - his 
books are all very good.  All along the same lines, some other
authors I've read are:  Bruce Sterling (Islands in the Net),
Richard Kadrey (Metrophage), Michael Weaver (Mercedes Nights),
Greg Bear (multiple titles forgotten), Timothy Zahn (ditto).

Always looking for books with "cyberpunk" themes!
bob

I've finally gotten around to reading Heinlein's "Stranger in a Strange Land."
Definitely entertaining; not really what I would call sci-fi.  Seems a
bit sexist (Jubal's 3 playmates, there); then again, it was written in '61.

- Dave

    Hey bob,
    Another one in the same genre is "Schismatrix", also by Sterling. I'm
    reading it now and it's really good. There's a set of 2 books I'd like
    to read sometime, I think by Robert Forward. The first one is called
    "The Dragon's Egg", about a life form on a planet with a density
    millions of times of earth.
    
    Scott (who still can't open JOBS notes)
    

I'm in the middle of Edward Abbey's "The Monkey Wrench Gang" -- like it so far.


Recenlty finished two books by Mary Summer Rain "Spirit Song" and "Phoenix
Rising" -- I'm not sure if these are available back East -- but I highly
recommend them for those that are into exploring the spiritual views of
American Indian shamans.


and before that finished The Stand (uncut) also - (phew!!!) Long, but
definitely worth it! 

Glenn

    Don't have much time fer reading lately....did read "People of the Blue
    Sky Country" history of the Ute Indians that used to rule Colo. And "Bayou
    Salado" history of South Park where the Utes hunted in Summer. 
    rfb

    the rule books on HS basketball :^)
    
    Andy_the_future_NBA_official_:^0

Got a copy of Classics of Horror which includes both Dracula and Frankenstein.
Can't believe that I got to be such an old fart before getting around to reading
these. ;-)

:-C

I have been reading a book titled "Kiss The Boys Goodbye"  - How The 
United States Betrayed Its Own POWs In Vietnam.....

By Monika Jensen-Stevenson & William Stevenson


She was a producer for 60 minutes when she got started on this story,
the deeper into the possibiliy that POW/MIAs were abandoned the more resistance
she got from lots of people, all the way to CIA top officials TELLING her 
to "Drop it".  


I don't think that I believe all of her claims/suppositions, but there 
sure have been too many "sightings" and claims of americans alove in
SE asia for all of them to have been made up.  I tend to think that 
it is likely that there aren't any left alive now, but there were for a long
time after the "War" was officially over.  ;'(  (severe distrust of gov't here)

Makes you wonder what they'd do for others now in similar circumstances.


If you don't have a distrust for the govt now, read this and you will.


Kevin

re:         <<< Note 117.153 by IMTDEV::INGALLS "Earth Day - Every Day" >>>
   
>I'm in the middle of Edward Abbey's "The Monkey Wrench Gang" -- like it so far.
    
    Great book. They just re-published the sequel in paperback. That'll 
    probably be my next book. Won't tell you the name cuz it'll spoil 
    one of the surprises in The MWG ;-)

	"You and your new Baby"

			by Dr. Benjamin Spock.

	:-)   :-)   :-)

	Actually, there are probably more "how-to" books on child care in our
	house right now than their are deadtapes.  :-)

PF

    >> Actually, there are probably more "how-to" books on child care in our
    >> house right now than their are deadtapes.  :-)
    
    You obviously need more deadtapes then ... ;^)
    
    							... Bobbb
    

    I STRONGLY recommend to all the new deadhead parents the books
    based on one book called "How to Discipline with Love". "How to" was
    the first in this series. If you don't need it with newborns, you will
    as they age.
    
    Also...those books about how a child changes from year to year, damn
    can't think of the names right now, but basically they let ya know what
    to expect froma  child as the years go by as far as development of the
    child. VERY INTERESTING stuff...I can remember watching my kids as
    babies when they accomplished a major feat in advancement and saying
    "HEY I read about that...and now mine's doin it!!!"
                                                       rfb

    I just heard that the Author of "Zen, and the Art of Motorcycle
    Maintenance" has finally come out with a new book. I think its somewhat
    of a cintinuation of Phaedrus' search for himself,.. but not sure.
    
    This ought to be good
    
    							/
    

    
    Yeah, it got a good review in the Times.
    
    

    Good... since I am just about to finish "Zen..." after starting it for
    the third time I ought to be able to pick up the sequel without a
    break.  Unless of course I need to re-start reading IT three times too
    :-)
    
    Actually the third try with "Zen" was really easy.  Like it took 2
    times to even get a clue what it was about, and a year later I got into
    it and couldn't put it down.  

    
    I'm having fun working my way through Zen right now, and I remember why
    I put it down in the first place...
    
    ... A combination of short attention span and lack of interest (Seems
    like Chris' problem in the book)...  I just didn't care to work my way
    through the thoughts of a rather philosophical main character, but now
    I find it rather fascinating.  Reading this book is like being inside
    of his head.
    
    I don't necessarily agree with everything he says, but a lot of it
    makes sense.  Still don't know too much about this Phaedrus dude...
    
    .. And don't know that I will without reading the book a few times!
    
    Treemon

    re .-1,.. and .-2
    
    	Keep at it you guys. Its worth the struggle. Treemon,.. I can
    say this to you,.. because I know you are a big tree,.. and you can
    take it. But anyway,.. in some strange way,.. having "suffered" (not
    	really) through this text,.. it does bring a smile to my face
    to know that a man half me age and twice me size is now struggling with
    the same material. A twisted sort of sadistic smile,.. but a smile
    nonetheless... :-)
    
    	Just burn it up mon. You are closer to an understanding than
    you think.
    
    								/
    

Right now I am reading "How to Sh+t In the Woods" This is a hilariously funny 
but ever so insigtful little (about 50 pages) about exactly what you'd expect
it to be about. The author, Karen ???? presents some interesting desciptions
of a process which is near and dear to us all.

Last night I read the first half of this fun but useful little text. I'll easily
finish the "text" this evening.

Highly recommended before the next DEChead campnig trip and/or your next 
camping trip.

Jack

    Galapagos  by Kurt Vonnegut...  great stuff!

Just finished another Steven King - "Thinner"

Reading bits and pieces of a couple self-help type books (seems these books are
best read a little at a time in order to digest the messages...): 

"There is a Place Where You Are Not Alone" - Hugh Prather 
"The Worlds Greatest Salesman" - Og Mandino

    
    Shogun.  I just started it so I don't really have an opinion on it yet
    but from what I've heard, it sounds good.  
    
    Hey da ve, I read Galapagos a few months ago - definately a good one!
    I also read Bluebeard this year.. one of his funniest.  
    
    

    I've just finished "A Flag for Sunrise", by Robert Stone. If anyone
    here has read it, I'd like to exchange mail.
    
    Very heavy book, in the sense that I feel like it's a weight on my
    mind, and there's something in it I'm supposed to have learned and
    haven't gotten.
    
    John

RE     <<< Note 117.167 by AKORNY::CUTLER "In the Strangest of Places..." >>>
                               -< Ligth Reading >-

>Right now I am reading "How to Sh+t In the Woods" This is a hilariously funny 
>but ever so insigtful little (about 50 pages) about exactly what you'd expect

Hey Jack, do you own this book?  If so, I'd like to borrow it.  Sounds like
some fun reading!

JC

    I have "How to Shit in the Woods" too, and it is fun reading.  The book
    has a Western US bias, but most of the advice still applies.
    
    I just finished "A Little More Than Kin," the second book in what's
    become Ernest Herbert's series on life in rural New Hampshire.  Having
    lived there, I found his characters and story fairly realistic.  Like
    many of the real-life North Country Appalachia stories, there was no
    happy ending.
    
    I just started Vonnegeaut's "Player Piano" and hopefully I'll finish it
    this time.
    
    Jamie

    So,. Jamie... are you telling me that people from the East
    do it differently?
    
    					/:-)
    

    Obviously the book was written for bears.  Out west they have
    grizzlies, and here in the east we have black bears.  That must be what
    Jamie meant ... ;^)
    
    ... Bobbb
    

    re .174/5
    
    Ha ha!!  :^)
    
    What I meant was that there's a big difference between taking (ok,
    leaving, before you jokers jump on that!) a crap in the desert and in
    the moist environment of the Eastern forests.  Things decompose quickly
    in the wet White Mountains, whereas you could come back in ten years
    and visit the pile you left in Death Valley.  What to do if you get the
    call in the desert or 8000' up el Capitan?  Aim for a Zip-Loc and pack
    it out -- nature ain't pretty.
    
    One interesting point that the book made was that your great-grandmother
    knew better than you how to shit outdoors and had no hang-ups about
    doing it.  When it took several days to travel by carriage, you quickly
    learned how to deal with bodily functions out-of-doors.  Nowadays the
    friggin AMC huts have bidets, fer chrissakes.  Why, when I was a lad we
    used sandpaper samples and were glad to have those.
    
    And always remember: all things being equal, select a toilet with a
    view.
    
    Jamie

    I just started reading "Hayduke Lives!", Ed Abbey's sequel to "The
    Monkey Wrench Gang". Mandatory reading for us GBMC types. ;-)

RE: 176

Great review of the book Jamie!! A view is definately an important part of 
a going in the woods. I'll bet you were good at book reports when you were in
school :-) :-) :-)

JC:  Now problem borrowing this book, I'll bring it along the next time we get
together.

Now on to some more serious reading... Liars Poker

Jack

         "Certain things are worthless.  If you know, then 
    I know, and practically everyone knows.  Omniscience just 
    isn't what it used to be.  Its a thing of the past.  We've
    got to split."
    
    	"I know."
    
    	"I'll miss you."
    
    	"I know you will."
    
    	"I hate this."
    
    	"Yes, I know you do."
    
    	"Stop that!  Must you know everything?"
    
    	"I know you know the answer to that.  I was
    just being kind."
    
    	"So that's it?  You're going to leave this
    town at sundown.  You have nothing more to say.
    You knew this would happen.  Then it doesn't 
    matter.  We'll enjoy the short time we have
    left together.  The memories are good.  Everyone
    is happy now.  You know and I know and everyone
    knows what it was like in the early days. When
    the old ones spoke, before we knew, when there was
    little we could do, when we had to be home..."  So
    it was.  This is how these childish higher powers, 
    godettes if you will, faced their last afternoon
    together.
    
    The memories of the old ones were all the life 
    they had.  They had always been together.  Now it
    was time to reminisce, relax, and rest.  It was time 
    for the higher powers to stop trying to act like gods 
    and just be.  After all, they were only children, tired
    and frustrated by responsibilities coincident with
    the demands of the big gods.  For now, the godettes
    could just be themselves - omniscient, omnipotent,
    or omnipresent, as the case may be.  The omniscient 
    ones would remember all the good times they had 
    together.  The omnipresent ones would make these
    memories pervasive, communal, spreading them far 
    and wide for the benefit of all godettes. The 
    omnipotent ones would make all of us enjoy every bit 
    of it, occasionally adjusting the past in an omnipotent, 
    yet subtle way; the past would be a good past. 
    
    This type of reminiscing is atypical godette behavior.
    Normally, omniscient godettes keep up on all that ever was,
    is and will be.  The omnipresent ones practice being 
    everywhere at all times and omnipotent ones create and 
    adjust the past, present, and future as required -- subtle
    or otherwise.  Typical godette activity is strictly paranormal; 
    there is nothing natural about it.
    
    When someone was troubled, they stepped in.  When the going 
    got good, the godettes skimmed the cream off the top.  When
    some soul power rose, the godettes would step in and adjust
    a life a little.  They had a unique ability to hang out 
    inside heads and stay there undetected. They enjoyed this
    play, but they had a job to do.  They had to learn the rules
    and become big gods someday.  It was a simple choice:  grow up
    and be a big god or nothing.    
    
    So it was, until the big gods lost their grip.  Big gods, if
    they exist, have everything their way.  Ultimate hedonists, 
    hedonists without a life, and extremely paranormal. The ultimate,
    the absolute, the certainty of it all, the end whose means 
    gathered up generations of little lives as they expired and
    from them made godettes.  

    They could have been gods, big gods, all knowing, all powerful and
    all present gods.  As the sun went down, they left town (in a 
    metephorical sense).  Actually the godettes went vapid. They just
    go to show, you don't ever know, and you like it that way.

	the last few books I've read...

	"Desolate Angel" by Dennis McNally, a biography of Jack Kerouac...
	an interesting look at the Beats, but in the end, a very sad
	story of a man who drank himself into his grave.

	"Dance While You Can" by Shirley Maclaine, the latest in her
	autobiographical books.  I was disappointed in this one.
	I love her writing and her ideas.  This was supposed to touch
	on relationships with parents and I thought that would be
	real interesting.  But it ended up that she talked aLOT about
	old movie stars she used to work with (Boring - to me).  

	"Behind the Shades" by ?, I'm reading this now.  It's a biography
	on Dylan.  It is very good, better than any of the books on Dylan
	I have read yet.  He knows alot about the man and his music.
	This man is obviously a big fan of Dylan and he has a very
	biased view of him (Dylan can almost do no wrong! according to him).
	There is a chapter on the Dylan/Dead tour and I skipped ahead to 
	read that.  This man is obviously NOT a big fan of the Dead or the 
	deadheads.  He somehow missed the fact that those big stadiums were 
	filled BECAUSE of the deadheads and not because of Dylan fans
	(although of course there were some who consider themselves both,
	like ME!) and puts us down for responding to well-known songs
	and not to rarely-played Dylan "gems".  I don't know, as much
	as I love Dylan, I don't think the blame for the failure of that 
	tour belongs to the Dead.  Anyways, this book delves into all his
	different periods with details about what was going on in his
	life to influence each different phase.  

	Debess

Two at the moment:

"CIA: 35 Years of Deception" very interesting read, scary too. and
"Tom Sawyer" actually it's a collection so it also includes Huck Finn and 
a couple of other classics. Grate fun!!

:-Chuck

    
    The Kitchen God's Wife by Amy Tan.  So far, I like it a lot.  It gets
    me really mad how the women were treated though.  Sometimes I just have
    to put it down for a while.
    
    

    re .-1
    
    Have you read her first one, "The Joy Luck Club"?  Both are very good.
    
    I finally finished Vonnegeaut's "Player Piano," which is about a
    society ruled by engineers and managers.  Like another famous war
    commentary, it begins by stating that "omnes Ilium in partes tres
    divisa est."
    
    Just finished "More of the Straight Dope" by Cecil Adams.  Good reading
    for skeptics and folks who like to read in the bathroom.  Being a
    skeptic who often mounts the throne with tome in hand, I thoroughly
    enjoyed it.
    
    I'm now into "The Secret Worlds of Colin Fletcher," the latest from the
    cantankerous high priest of the rucksack set.  Good so far.
    
    Jamie

    
    Yes, I read The Joy Luck Club when it first came out and loved it.
    
    I kept a list this year of all the books I read starting with the one I
    bought in Cal for the plane ride home from the New Years shows.  I've
    always wanted to do that but never remembered in time.  It's
    interesting to look at as a whole and see what I've picked up over the
    year.  Turns out I read about 2 books a month.
    
    

    I'm about 1/4 the way through Ken Kesey's "Sometime's A Great Notion".
    After wading through the first 50 pages you get used to the stream
    O'conciousness style and it's actually a pretty good book.
    
    Next up is Michael Crichton's "Jurassic Park". It just came out
    in paperback. Interesting story line.
    
    - Gerry

    
    Right now...
    
    ...I'm reading Mickey's "Drumming at the Edge of Magic".  In addition
    to being an extremely enlightening work about the field of
    Ethnomusicology (a cross between Anthropology and Musicology), this
    book serves as a great auto-biography of Mickey.  He's led quite the
    interesting life!  A must read for those of us who are inherently
    captivated and brought to "other places" by music.
    
    After Christmas...   (since I know what some of my presents are)
    
    ...Gaia - A complete guide to Planet Management.  This is a very large
    softcover book complete with hand drawn graphics and illustrations that
    outline what the planets history is, what it's current adversaries are
    (deforestation, acid rain, pollution, overpopulation etc...), and what
    the human's role in developing a symbiotic relationship with it is for
    the future.  We found this book (originally $20.00 or so) at the Book
    Liquidators Sale in Burlington for $4!  It's an excellent book.
    
    ...The Complete Works of Edgar Allan Poe.  Yes /, I saw this one and
    said gimme gimme gimme!!!  I THIRST for Edgar's morosity!
    
    I think the two books will go well together (unfortunately).
    
    Tree

    Good luck on the Poe mon,... to be taken in small doses :-)
    If ya catch my drift :-)
    
    								/
    

I just started reading The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test, by Tom Wolfe.  
After about 100 pages, I think this book's gonna change my life...

Don

    < I just started reading The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test, by Tom Wolfe.
    < after about 100 pages, I think this book's gonna change my life...
    
    Hi Don, I read that book when I was in High school, about 10 years ago, 
    and it DID change my life!!!  Some pretty interesting stuff in there. 
    I still remember the part about pulses, and how that guy tricked
    the nurse/doctor into believing he knew when a minute was up, when
    he really was taking his pulse on the sly.  Pretty quick thinking!
    
    I hope you enjoy the reading!
    
    Candi
    

    I'm reading a great book called Weave World by Clive Barker.  It's
    about magick and it's great so far.  My son Ben recommended it to me.

re                     <<< Note 117.185 by SA1794::GLADUG >>>

>    Next up is Michael Crichton's "Jurassic Park". It just came out
>    in paperback. Interesting story line.
    
I'm reading it now ... pretty good so far, though it's kinda dragging in the
middle.

Also partially through "Strangers in a Strange Land" by Robert Heinlein (now
I grok what someone in grateful_old_old meant when he said he grokked the
meaning of The Skull ;^) and "Return to Creation" by Maniquosset (sp? or
Medicine Story).  I hate to stop reading a book before it's done, but if I don't
care for it I'll start reading another one ... I think it's going to take me
a few years to finish SiaSL at this rate.

- Dave

>   <<< Note 117.190 by VERGA::STANLEY "what a long strange trip it's been" >>>
>
>    I'm reading a great book called Weave World by Clive Barker.  It's
>    about magick and it's great so far.  My son Ben recommended it to me.
    
    
    Gosh, that name looks familiar.  Wasn't a Clive Barker the drummer for
    early Jethro Tull, circa the "Benefit" album?  Same guy maybe??
    
    dave

    I've been carrying a note around with me for a few weeks now... it's
    117.179 (WLDWST::BLAKKAN) on Rebel Goddettes.  I couldn't find it in
    the book store.  Does anyone know the author?
    
    mary

    yeah...  his name is Ken and he can be reached at WLDWST::BLAKKAN...
    pretty imaginative dude and a pretty good egg (shell's a little
    cracked, but he's a pretty good egg! :^)
    
    					da ve

    No, that was Clive Bunker. Pretty close though.
    

    
    Jean-Paul Sartre's "No Exit"  - again.  Next in line is to revisit my
    book of John O'Hara's short stories.   Recently finished Tennessee
    Williams' play, "Night of the Iguana" and three of Eugene O'Neil's
    plays.  I love reading short stories and plays...but you prob could
    tell.  'The Man Who Planted Trees' was a recent coup - since it was
    hard to find the book - never mind finding a video company who dealt
    with it.  BUT - find, I did! I recently found the video of this European
    story.  This short (25 min) film won animation prizes in 1989 .. and 
    I have been looking for it ever since.
    
    Carol

    
    "a separate peace"...  forget the authors name...  i read it once when
    i was in school and forget most of it...  pretty good so far, but not
    great...  
    
    					da ve_who_sez_"if_they_didnt_make_
                                        me_read_it_in_swchool_i_probably_
    					never_would_have_read_it

    
    "Hocus Pocus" by K. Vonnegut.  So far, so good.  Funny as expected.
    
    I finally read "Drumming at the Edge of Magic" a couple of weeks ago 
    and loved it!
    
    

 Recently started reading The Sum of All Fears by Tom Clancy.  Haven't had
much time to get too far into it  yet, however.







Jim

    I am reading The Sum of All Fears now - it's pretty good.  I am
    a bit over halfway through.  
    
    Heidi

    I read The Sum myself during the Fall.
    
    At about Page 650, the book takes off, and you just can't
    put it down. Plan ahaed for that day.
    
    

  

    Well, let's see...

  ... I am reading The Witching Hour by Anne Rice, The Fellowship
of the Rings by Tolkien, and The Wastelands (the Dark Tower III) by
Stephen King.  

Wish I had more time. ;-) 

Shawn
    

    1) The New Complete Joy of Homebrewing - Charlie Papazian.
     	
       				and
    
    2) The Adventures of The Stainless Steel Rat - Harry Harrison.

re                      <<< Note 117.203 by SCOONR::GLADU >>>

>    1) The New Complete Joy of Homebrewing - Charlie Papazian.
 
Good book!  I'm trying, when I have the time, to read this.  One thing I found
funny is just about every picture, the folks are drinkin' a home brew!  One
picture, the woman looks somewhat intoxicated!

    Once being interested in opening a Brew Pub I used to subscribe to
    a Homebrewing magazine..does anyone out there get this and if not
    I would be glad to post where you can get a subscription etc..if
    it still is in circulation
    
    rich

    if you mean "Zymurgy", then the address is
    
    	Zymurgy, PO Box 1510-J, Boulder, CO, 80306-1510
    
    Subscription is $25 for 5 issues. Checks payable to Zymurgy.

I got this really cool book yesterday.  It has stories and quotes from many
of the lectures that Swami Satchidananda gave in the early 70's.  Someone here
probably knows Swami's history better than I ... I bought the book because I
liked it's pretense (presents Swami's teachings enabling the readers to discover
the peace and joy that is within us all).  Actually I think he is a teacher of
Yoga ... can anyone tell me more.

Anyway the book is called Beyond Words.  I read the first chapter yesterday.
I just want to quote 90% of the passages I've read thus far, but I'll try to
pick only one....



	Once a business man was talking seriously to a friend when his young
	son came and interuppted.  To keep the boy occupied the father found
	a world map, tore it into pieces and gave it to the boy saying, "Son
	will you please put them together again to form the world?"
	The boy was really intelligent.  He said, "OK I'll try".
	He was a small boy who didn't know much about world geography but he
	accidentally turned one piece over and saw a small bit of nose.  Then
	he turned over other pieces and saw a hand, a leg and a foot.  He
	quickly turned all the pieces upside down and found different parts of
	the human body.
	Very easily he arranged the body and fastened it together and turned
	the whole thing over.  Excited, he ran in to show his father.  The
	father was suprised and asked how he did it. 
	"Oh father it was very easy."
	"The whole world was torn into pieces and you say it was very easy
	to put it together?  How did you do it?"
	"Daddy, I turned the pieces upside down and saw the parts of the human
	body, so I set right the human body and the world became all right."

	It is the same way in real life.  To put the world together, you
	must first put the man together.  If you want to see peace in the
	world outside you must first see to it that your own mind is at peace.
	If you want to see a world free of greed, hatred and jealousy you 
	must first see that your own mind is free of those qualities.  As
	long as there are disturbances in your own mind, you will see 
	disturbances in the world outside.  So first put the man together and
	automatically you will be helping to put the world together.

    Nice passage Lisa :^)  Thanks for sharing that with us.
    
    peace,Andy

    
       right now i'm reading palindrome by stuart woods. recently read
    books - the talisman by stephen king/peter straub (excellent book!)
          - four past midnight by s. king
          - lightning/the bad place/midnight all by dean koonz
                 
      books on deck - watcher by d. koonz
                    - strangers by d. koonz
                    - the dark tower series by s. king
    
                                                       ^dave
          

    watcher was a cool book...  i liked it a lot better than the movie...
    
    					da ve

    I'm reading an assortment of mountaineering textbooks - "Glacier Travel 
    and Crevasse Rescue", "Mountaineering Medicine", "Mountaineering, Freedom 
    of the Hills" and "The ABC's of Avalanche Safety". Boy, I'll be glad 
    when the show finally gets on the road. 
    
    - Gerry

    re .-1
    
    So, what is the proper procedure for biting off your own tongue?  What
    if you wear dentures?  Is it a mountaineering faux pas to be rescued
    after performing it?  Is there some kind of semaphore signal for "I've
    bitten off my own tongue, please leave me alone"?
    
    I just wanna be prepared . . .
    
    Getting psyched for my trip to the Museum of Military Medicine in
    Washington, DC!
    
    Jamie

re: Note 117.212 
    
    >So, what is the proper procedure for biting off your own tongue?  
    
    I highly recommend marinating it with teriyaki sauce for a
    couple of days first.
    
    
    >What if you wear dentures?  
    
    Increase the marination period to 4 days.
    
    
    >Is it a mountaineering faux pas to be rescued after performing it?  
    
    No, but biting the tongue off of your rescuers is frowned upon
    in some circles.
    
    
    >Is there some kind of semaphore signal for "I've bitten off my own 
    >tongue, please leave me alone"?
    
    No, it has been determined that a friendly game of "Charades" is
    more appropriate.
    
    
    tongue-in-cheekG :-)

Just finished the Dark Tower series by S. King

Just started "Earthway", another in Mary Summer Rain's No-Eyes series...

Still working with "Homecoming" by  Bradshaw

Also looking at a lot of Grand Canyon info, and Kayak Instruction literature

Glenn

I'm reading Stephen King's "The Stand."  It's enough to make me a 
hypocondriac (sp?)!!

Scott

    
    Rabbit At Rest  by Updike
    
    c

    Dark Tower & The Stand are both AWESOME!!!
    
    :)sparky_SK_fan
    

    
    I just finished a great book by Katherine Neville called "The Eight."
    It's about a chess set that supposedly belonged to Charlemagne that
    contained a code for the secret of life.  It goes back and forth
    between France in the 1700s when the set was first made, used, lost,
    etc., and the present, where the new "players" get tangled up in the
    search.  It took about 100 pages to really get going, but once it did
    I could barely put it down.
    
    Next in line, "American Psycho" by Brett Easton Ellis.
    
    

    I just bought a BUNCH of books, including the uncut version of
    "Stranger in a Strange Land" by Heinlein, "The Pendragon Chronicles" by
    various artists, "The Complete Stories of Isaac Asimov, Vol. I", and 
    several others that elude me right now. :)  When I get to read them is a
    totally different story, of course... :)  Next I'm buying "The Dark
    Knight Returns" by Frank Miller, and "Women of the Ages" which
    showcases Virgil Finlay's beautiful photo-like ink drawings from the
    pulp sci-fi mags of the 30's, 40's, 50's, and 60's. :)  Incredible
    stuff.
    
    Rob
    

    I just bought a new copy of Kerouac's "Dharma Bums" for reading while 
    on vacation. Great book. I lost my old copy some years ago before I
    had a chance to finish it.

    In my usual SF mode, just finished _Neuromancer_ by William Gibson (I
    think that's correct).  This is supposedly the first of the cyber-punk
    novels.  Turns out I had bought this when it first came out and just
    never read it.  Pretty good stuff.  Enough to make me want to read
    Mona Lisa Overdrive, though not necessarily next.  Next up is 
    _All the Weyrs of Pern_ by Anne McCaffery.  I was waiting for this
    to come out in paperback, but when I saw it for 1.99 in hardcover
    I decided to go for it ;-)
    
    PeterT
    

    
    Also :  The Iron Heel by Jack London.  In which the estaclishment is
    proven to have been established way before anyone Christopher ever set
    foot over here.  Exceedingly hard to read ... very down pulling.
    
    c  

    
    I'm reading a couple of things. For fun I'm reading "Contact" by Carl
    Sagan, very interesting especially how people take the news that there
    is intelligent life out there. On the more serious side "America: What 
    Went Wrong". This is a very good book but hard to read, it has lots 
    of numbers in it that take some time to sink in but also it's hard to
    read more than a couple of pages without getting REALLY pissed off. You
    get to see what Ronnie and Georgie mean by "cutting taxes" and
    "reducing goverment waste". Major GRRRR!
    
    On a couple previous, The Stand, Strange..., The Dark Tower series are
    all VERY good. The DTS is very very wierd but I loved it. 
    
    :-Chuck

    re .221
    
    The book following Neuromancer is Count Zero Interrupt (dweeby title).
    Like most parts 2 of 3, CZI does not work well standalone, but it does
    set the stage for Mona Lisa Overdrive (which probably does not make
    much sense without CZI).
    
    N. was the first book to be labelled cyberpunk (I think), but you can
    probably find older material that fits the genre. Or you can bop over
    to alt.cyberpunk for endless arguments as to what is or isn't cp.
     
    A typical example follows:
    
    <insert title> is cyberpunk.
    Isn't
    Is
    Isn't
    Is
    Isn't
    Is
    Isn't
    Is
    Isn't
    Is
    .
    .
    .

    The Tao of Pooh
    
    Don't remember the author's name.
    
    	A friend told me to -- a real good friend indeed!
    
    :-)

    Just started reading The Last Mafiaso.  It's about Jimmy Frattiono
    (sp?) (The Weasel)  who "turned" on the BIG mafia bosses.  A true
    story, interesting to see all the big names associated with the
    mob...looking forward to REALLY getting into it!
    
    I'm seeing alot of you finally find The Dark Tower series...GRATE
    series!!  I read the first one when it very first came out, same with
    the second and the third...wish the fourth would hurry!  I need a good
    Roland fix! :)
    
    rochelle
                                  

re: Note 117.224 by STAR::HUGHES 
        
    >The book following Neuromancer is Count Zero Interrupt (dweeby title).
    >Like most parts 2 of 3, CZI does not work well standalone, but it does
    >set the stage for Mona Lisa Overdrive (which probably does not make
    >much sense without CZI).
    
    I read Neuromancer then Mona Lisa Overdrive but skipped Count Zero.
    Didn't even know they were part of a trilogy. They both worked standalone
    for me and made perfect sense. But then again, I live in Cyberspace. :-)
    I'll have to get Count Zero Interrupt one of these days. 
    
    - Gerry

    re .227
    
    Fair enough. There was quite a time gap between the publishing of CZI
    and MLO (in paperback). MLO might have been better if I read the two
    together (or maybe skipped CZI altogether). MLO kept reminding me of
    things that happened in the previous book that I did not remember in
    detail, so I ended up skimming CZI to refresh (and some info on
    voudoun).
    
    If you're out book shopping, you'll probably enjoy Burning Chrome, a
    collection of Gibson's short stories set in the same '20 minutes into
    the future' world. Haven't read Difference Engine yet.
    
    gary

re: Note 117.228 by STAR::HUGHES 
    
    Haven't read Difference Engine yet.
    
    I read it. I didn't really like it. They never really tie things
    together at the end and sort of leave you with a dissociated mess.
    
    - Gerry

    Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, again.  I get something
    different out of it every time I read it.
    
    One of the best books of the century, highly recommended for anyone
    since it's not really about motorcycles, it's about a guy finding
    himself.  I guess they would call it "new age" now, but in the early
    70's when it was written I guess it was considered psychology.
    
    Scott
    

    Thank you!!  I've been trying to remember the name of that book (Zen
    and the Art of Mororcycle Maintenance) for the past year.  Someone had
    told me about it at a time when I was (once again) trying to find
    myself and overcome my divorce.. Never did pick it up, but now wish I
    had it here to read.....I heard it was a verrry good book.  Does it
    catch your interest right off?  Or is it one that you have to read n
    amount of pages first?
    
    rochelle

I stayed up late last night finishing off the last hundred or so pages of 
Stephen King's The Stand (the "complete and uncut" version.  Simply an awesome 
book, IMO.

Scott

    I don't think Zen really grabs you at the beginning.  It starts out at
    a good pace and pretty much stays consistent throughout the book.  The
    author (Robert Pirsig) tends to alternate his narrative between his
    thoughts and the actions.  At times his visions of Phaedrus (he
    explains that in the book) seem repetitive but later on you'll see why.
    
    My copy has a new introduction written since his son was murdered,
    which makes me pay even more attention to their relationship.
    
    I think it helps to have been on a motorcycle trip before.  I first
    read it before I ever went ona bike trip.  Now that I've experienced
    most of what he has on bike trips, it makes the experience more
    familiar.  But, motorcycles aren't the focus of this book, they merely
    play a supporting role.
    
    I rank this book up there with my other two favorite travel/soul
    searching books:
    
    Blue Highways by Willian Least Heat Moon
    Travels with Charlie by John Steinbeck
    

    Zen and the Art of Motor Cycle maintenance didn't "grab" me 'til
    I read it the second time...:-)
    
    Well,.. I guess towards the end where I finally started understanding
    what the whole thing was about I did get grabbed purty gud
    
    							/
    

I thought the uplift series was fantastic.  Great ETs and good ideas.

Also, just got through with his "Earth".  Astounding!

	~dave

    The Uplift series consists of
    Sundiver
    Startide Rising
    The Uplift Wars
    
    I'd recommend them highly.  There might have been some slow parts, but 
    this may have only been my impression, as my day's of uninterrupted 
    reading spells are gone for a while (at least till the kids get a 
    little older and the house becomes self-sufficient :-)
    Just for those not in the know, the Uplift series concerns a galactic
    civilization, where one species 'uplifts' promising species to 
    a cognitive state.  Mankind is considered a 'wolfling' species
    because they managed to 'uplift' themselves, though the general
    consensus among the galactic species is that this is impossible, and
    mankinds benefactors somehow disappeared.  Humans were also discovered
    by the other races just as they (humans) were starting to 'uplift'
    chimpanzee's and dolphins.  Species that are uplifted are indebted
    to their uplifter for some ungodly number or generations or 
    millenia.  But as wolflings, mankind tends to be pretty loose 
    in their master/slave relation between themselves and chimps 
    and dolphins.  Lots of power struggles and cause for strife 
    within this whole framework.
    Sundiver concerns the discovery of apparently intelligent beings
    living within the sun!  And the speculation that these may be the 
    missing uplifters of mankind.
    Startide Rising is about the first starship commanded by dolphins
    (with various human advisors) who discover artifacts from the 
    fabled Progenitors (the first race that started uplifting everyone
    else).  This knowledge, leaked out, starts an intergalactic war as
    various races try to get this knowledge from our harried crew.
    This takes place quite a bit in the future from Sundiver.
    The Uplift War takes place at roughly the same time as Startide Rising
    but in a different sector of the galaxy.  Here a bird derived species
    intends to take over a planet that had been the scene of a failed
    uplifting millenia ago.  Mankind had been given caretaker status of
    the planet (as it was assumed they couldn't screw things up worse)
    and the birds (don't recall their name offhand) intend to showup
    mankind and gain caretaker status over them (I believe that latter
    part was part of their strategy).  Uplifted chimpanzees band together
    and start resisting with the assistance of one human.
    
    Another book is forthcoming which will be a direct sequel to Startide 
    Rising, but there may be other books that Brin is writing before
    hand.  I've heard he writes in cycles, an Uplift book, a light book,
    and a serious book, before he starts over again.  So the next uplift
    book may be one or two down the road.  
    
    I've read Earth recently (I think this one counts as the serious book)
    and also recommend it.  A lot of computer net geek stuff in this one!
    
    I'll be reading Heart of the Comet soon (written with Gregory Benford)
    and The Postman (or is it just Postman) after that.  I've heard that
    The Postman is being made into a movie with Tom Hanks as the lead.
    
    PeterT
    

    Sounds like a great series.

                      <<< Note 117.238 by SMURF::PETERT >>>
                       -< literary note for the day ;-) >-

PeterT thanks for the words.  I like Brin,  and agree with Dutton that
Sundiver was a bit slow.  Seeing that you both think that one might be
the slow one then I just I might pick up the next one.....

As for Pournelle,   I haven't read anything by him that I've ever liked
when he was writing alone.  Somehow he shines when he teams up with other
authors (Niven and the Moties...etc).  No offense meant if you are a JerryP
fan.

thanks!
bob

    My favorite book is Emmanuel's Book.  I read it almost every day. 
    
    danielle

    One Fish
    
    Two Fish
    
    Red Fish
    
    Blue Fish
    
    
    My nephew just can't get enough of it -- and I'm rather fond of it
    too!
    
    :) sparky

    follow up to Jen's last note........
    
    we even have this on the coffe table at home ! she reads it every night
    before bed !
    
    for me to read the works of the late Doctor I need to be in the right
    (or is the left) frame of minds....
    
    Chris

    I think I can quote "One Fish Two Fish" by heart now ;-)  Though 
    we've seemed to have passed on to other things and only occasionaly
    return to this one.  I must admit to doing some editing on the 
    fly though.  Fr instance
     
    Brush Brush Brush Brush
    Comb Comb Comb Comb
    Blue Hair is fun to brush and comb!
    All kids (was girls) who like to brush and comb
    should have a pet like this at home. 
    
    PeterT
    

One Fish Two Fish is good but as for Favorites... Where The Wild Things Are 
by Maurice Sendak and But No Elephants by Jerry Smath, seem to be among 
Nathan's Favorites.

The David Brin Books are pretty good. The first one was definitely a bit of 
a dragger.

recently I haven't had time to read anything but what I read to Nathan and 
Alex before bed.

On the movie front, I heard recently that funding has been provided for the 
sequel to Buckaroo Banzai. Looking forward to Buckaroo Banzai against the 
World Crime League.  Hopefully comeing sometime next year.

Geoff

    Yes! yes! yes!

    
    I'm reading Anne Rice's "The Witching Hour" and loving it!  It's
    classic Anne Rice, on a par with the Vampire Chronicles.  I've cruised
    through over 600 pages in a week and can barely put it down.  It's a
    long book (over 950 pgs) and there's a few hundred pages in the middle
    where they get into the family history and go through each successive
    generation and it gets a little bit slow at times but don't quit!  It
    still stays very interesting and once you hit the 600's and get back to
    the present you will be very glad you stuck it out.  Supposedly, she's
    writing the sequel to this right now.  Hope it's not quite as long
    (carrying a 965 page book back and forth to work is not fun!)
    
    

    She had D.... well better be writting a sequal to it!!!!
    
    Clearly, you have not got to the end yet.   I HATE it when an author
    does that.  I was so unhappy with the ending I gave the book away.
    She IS a good writter, but I felt ripped off by this book.
    
    Judy
    

    Just finished Arthur C. Clarke's three "Rama" novels. Now I just have
    to wait a year for the 4th and last one to come out. Currently reading
    Clive Barker's "Weaveworld".

    
    Hi Judy,
    
    I put off reading it for a long time cause I kept hearing how horrible
    the ending was, but I did finish it and I wasn't disappointed.  ALL her
    books are written with a sequel in mind.  That's how she writes.  If
    you're looking for a happy ending, you've got the wrong author. 
    (slight understatement, huh? :-)  
    
    spoiler ahead:
    
    
    
    I thought the ending was pretty inevitable.  Not that I would've
    guessed exactly what happened, but there was no way good was gonna win
    out over evil.  As soon as Rowan distanced herself from Michael and the
    Talamasca and tried to take this on by herself, I knew she was doomed. 
    All Rice's evil characters simply thrive on ego.  FWIW, she is
    definately writing the sequel as we speak.  In fact, it was supposed to
    come out before the 4th vampire book but obviously didn't.
    
    

    
    I saw a picture in one of the book of the month club ads for a book by
    Benjamin Hoff called "The Te of Piglet."  Has anyone read it yet?
    
    

    Hmmm . .  .
    
    Haven't heard of it, but I'm sure it's along the same lines
    that "The Tao of Pooh" is . . . which I suggest highly!
    
    :) sparky

    
    yeah, well that's what the title would suggest! ;-)  That's why I'm
    wondering if anyone's read it.  I didn't even know it was out until I
    saw the ad.
    
    

    I'm reading a book called Liber Null & Psychonaut... it's interesting.

Well, after reading earlier notes about David Brin, I decided to
get back into reading sci fi after a hiatus of several years ... I'm
glad I did; this guy really knows how to spark the imagination.  I'm
reading his "River of Time," a collection of short stories (figured I'd
start off easy).  Great stuff.  I especially like the first (?) story
about the crystal spheres ... nice twist on the advanced-alien-intelligence-
encourages-human-evolution theme.  Also the what-if story where aliens
assist the Nazis during WWII (shudder).

Sci-fi is a nice escape from reality ... I'm glad I picked it up again.

- DC

    I always loved it too, Dave... the house is full of sci-fi books.

>Sci-fi is a nice escape from reality ... I'm glad I picked it up again.
>
>- DC


You mean there are OTHER types of books, NAAAAH, I don't believe you:-):-)

Geoff

Well, there's horror ... fantasy from below instead of above ... ;^)

    I bought a copy of The Te of Piglet in the Chicago.  We had a 3 hour
    layover unexpectedly!  Finding that book was worth the inconvenience.
    As a fan of the Tao of Pooh ( I've given out at least 6 copies as
    gifts also) I found The Te of Pooh very enjoyable.  The author is
    is using Piglet to expain the Taoist concept of "virtue in snall
    things".   Piglet has always been one of my favorite "Pooh" characters.
    I would definitely recommend it to anyone who appreciates The Tao of
    Pooh.
    
    Rose
    

    re my note .260 it was the Chicago airport in September.  the book had
    just been released.
    
    Rose_whose_brain_is_faster_than_her_fingers
    

    
    Sounds great - thanks, Rose!
    
    

    My son bought it already, Rose... now to get a few quiet minutes to
    read it.. :-)

    In preparation for "Life After DEC - Plan A"...
    
    The Appalachian Trail Workbook for Planning Thru-hikes.
    
    The Appalachian Trail Backpacker's Planning Guide.
    
    ger_who_needs_a_new_trail_name.

    Right now I'm reading _Beloved_ by Toni Morrison.  I'm just about 1/2
    way through it and it's knocking me out!  What a great writer this
    woman is . . . the book's about a woman and her "family" living in Ohio
    after the Civil War.  Toni weaves together slavery, womanhood, family,
    mysticism, love, anger . . . geez lotsa stuff . . . in a gripping
    story.  Her voice is clever and accessible and I recommend this book to
    everyone.
    
    I'm also re-reading _One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest_ by Ken Kesey. 
    This is one of my all-time favorite books.  In fact, I'm using it in
    the class I teach (Popular Literature at Framingham High School's adult
    education).  My students weren't too hot on it at first (they're not
    big readers) but once the story really kicked in they've been enjoying
    it more and more.  I like it `cause it can be taken on many levels. 
    You can read as just a story, or you can really delve into it as a
    subtle exploration of the human mind and its hidden agendas.
    
    Also I'm re-reading _Tao Te Ching_ by Lao-tzu.  This book really defies
    explanation; let me just say if everybody in the world read it, I mean
    *really* read it, the world might be a much smoother place.
    
    Peace,
    David the Lorax

    
    Toni Morrison is a great author!  I have her new one, "Jazz" at home
    but haven't gotten to it yet.  I've read all her others, though, and
    highly recommend them!  ("Tar Baby", "Song of Solomon", "Sula", "The
    Bluest Eye".)
    
    

    Recently finished "Carve The Sky" by Alexander Jablonsky (sp?).
    Very interesting SF with an 'artisitic' bent.  The "Carve" in the
    title refers to sculpting, as the tale revolves around tracing the
    origin of one small sculpture and the material used to construct it.
    The author is relatively new (first novel, lives in Somerville, MA)
    but the book is well written and is worth a look if you should 
    stumble across it.
    
    Just finished "The Postman" by David Brin.  It's been discussed
    here before, and I'll just add my recommendation.
    
    Oh, yeah, and prior to "Carve The Sky" I read "Heart of the Comet"
    by David Brin and Gregory Benford.  All about a mission to Halley's
    comet so they can bring it into a useful orbit the next time it
    swings by.  Great book with a lot of surprises.  Brin did his 
    doctorate on comets I believe.
    
    Well, 3 books without a clunker among them.  Now to decide if I hit
    the library tonight, or just pick up one of my many unread about 
    the house  ;-)
    
    PeterT
    

Romeo and Juliet, by William Shakespeare.

Seriously.  Read half last night, and will finish this evening...

I've been wanting to read it again (last time was in High School).
Since my daughter's now reading it (in High School too), and asked
for my help, I figured it was a good excuse.

The man had an amazing way with a word.

tim

Finished "Pet Semetary" ... Stephen King

Started "Interview With a Vampire" ... Ann Rice


Glennnn

    Finished a while ago: The Body Thief, Ann Rice
    
    Just the other day finished: U.S. Army Survival Manual and A History of
    Climbing in the Northeast U.S., Guy and Mumble Waterman
    
    Just started: WordPerfect Simplified
    
    Marv
    

Re:   <<< Note 117.268 by NAC::TRAMP::GRADY "Short arms, and deep pockets..." >>>

> The man had an amazing way with a word.

	(Shakepeare) .. agreed!  A Midsummer Night's Dream is my
	favorite ... as a matter of fact Puck is the gnome I aspire to.

:-) :-) :-)

    I'm reading the 1993 Appalachian Trail Data Book and the 1993
    Thru-hiker's Handbook. Boy, this is a lot of F'n work planning
    this hike. 
    
    ger

>    Climbing in the Northeast U.S., Guy and Mumble Waterman
    
Was I in it?


:-)

lemme see -


- DOS programmer's ref. manual
- K+R C Programming manual
- MS-C/C++ R/T Ref manual


Real good stuff!

    re .273
    
      The book did indeed mention you.  I'll paraphrase:
    
       "One of the most incidious and potentially deadly weather challenges
    a hiker must face in the Northeast is Fog."
    
    :-)
    
    Marv
    
    

re: .273 
    
>> Climbing in the Northeast U.S., Guy and Mumble Waterman
    
    >Was I in it?
    
    Yep. You're listed under "Rule Number 1". :-)

    
    
    Lessee, I'm reading "All Creatures Great and Small"  because I felt
    like perhaps I was the only one who never read it maybe...
    
    It's pretty enjoyable...  Nice writing, nice descriptions of nature and
    the countryside of England in the 1930's...
    
    Treee

    Don't worry Tree, I've never read "All Creatures...." though I may
    have seen a few episodes ;-)
    Tim, Shakespeare is great.  You should try and go see some of the
    plays too.  Back in my college years, when I would work back 
    at home on Long Island, we tried to get to Shakespeare in the 
    Park at least once during the summer.  Got to see a great 
    "Taming of the Shrew" with Meryl Streep and Raul Julia as Katherine
    and Petrucchio.  Ah, those were the days.....
    
    Of course, "Taming..." is not quite politically correct these days, but
    I'm willing to make adjustments for a few centuries.
    
    PeterT
    

    re: ACG & S
    
    My favorite episode is the one where the cow explodes. :-)

    
    
    Hey GerG, Go take a long walk to straighten out that sortid mind of
    yours!  :^)  
    
    EEEeeewwwww, YUCK
    
    I must not have gotten that far in the book yet...
    
    Baited breath Tree

    I don't remember the Shakespearean play with an exploding cow. ;-)
    
    I'm not exactly a Shakespeare nut, but I enjoy it once in awhile.  The
    summer before last, I went to see "A Mid-Summer Night's Dream", and
    before that, took my daughters to see the ballet Romeo and Juliet. 
    That was fun.  Didn't get to finish reading it last night, due to an
    overload of kids' homework, so I'll probably finish tonight.
    
    I enjoy the turn of a phrase, a sort of double entendre', that is
    prevalent in literature of the 16th century, and at which Shakespeare
    was expert.
    
    tim
    

    
    I love Shakespeare too.  Free Shakespeare in the park is definately
    one of the great things about NYC.  They always attract a lot of great
    actors so the casts are usually terrific.  I've seen Raul Julia and
    Christoper Walken in Othello, Al Pacino, Martin Sheen, and Edward
    Herrmann in Julius Caesar, and a lot of others.  A Mid-Summer Night's
    Dream is one of my favorites, too.  
    
    

    PHYLLIS!!!!
    
    i'm surprised at you!!!!  you like Shakespeare?!?!?!?!?!?!????  one of
    the all time greatest pun-sters?!?!?!?!?!!?!?   :^) :^) :^)
    
    and now it's true confessions time...  a few notes back Ger, Fog and Marv 
    were noting about Fog's inclusion in the hiking book, and then Tree
    mentioned All Creatures Great and Small, how many of you expected the
    next replies to be Lisa aking "am *I* in it???"  and the Tree replying
    "yep, me too!"
    
    ok, maybe it *was* just me....  :^)
    
    					da ve

;^)

     I may have da ve, cept I was in Maynard yesterday afternoon.

    
    I don't know, da ve, somehow you all in here have never exactly
    reminded me of Shakespeare. ;-)
    
    

    somehow da ve I think she is insulting us but this is not for I to know
    if my soul has been thrusted with a knife of personal pain......
    
    ;"}

    ah, Phyllis, i knew her well...  :^)
    
    			da ve_who_sez_"hell_hath_no_fury_like_a_punster_
    			scorned!"  :^)

I dunno Phyllis ... sometimes Chris is as hard to understand as Shakespeare
was at first.  ;^)

> Shakespeare...

Total pervert, and total punster...

I think he's great! :-)

Dave

Freshman.  She's 14.  I was 15 when she was born...like Romeo...;-);-)

tim

> I was 15 when she was born

Oh, I see Tim...So your sophomore year of high school was the best 7 years
of your life, eh? 

:-)

Dave (wipper-snapper).

    Just finished Cry To Heaven - Anne Rice's first book.  It's about the
    castrato singers in 18th century Italy.  The books explores gender
    roles, love, sex and life amongst the lazy rich folks of that time. 
    Very interesting to see how her style of writing has really expanded
    since then.  I highly recommend this book.
    
    Before that I read Tale of the Body Thief - belated thanks to Phyllis
    for recommending the Vampire books to me.
    
    Next I'm going to read Clockers, Richard Price's tale of urban decay in
    a small New Jersey city overrun with drug dealers, etc.
    
    Fredda
    
    BTW - for those of you who belong to the Quality Paperback Book Club,
    they just published On The Road/The Subterrerans/The Dharma Bums in one
    volume with a short (20 page) biography of Jack Kerouac as an
    introduction.

Skinny Legs and All

	by Tom Robbins

Excellent book!  Robbins has an incredible talent with metaphor 
and imagery.  At first, some of it came across as being just too 
clever, but once I got used to it, I couldn't put the book down.

Here's a segment that I absolutely love (because it puts into words 
my memories of a certain April day that I spent in New York City).
It really captures the feeling of newness and freshness against the 
dirty backdrop of the same old NYC:

"It's the third Friday in April.  Spring lies on New York 
like an odalisque on a harem sofa.  Like an AIDS baby on a 
Harlem sofa.  A big moon is rising.  Like the odalisque, the 
moon seems filled to overflowing with sweetmeats and sperm, but 
the haze through which it rises is emaciated, phlegm-choked, 
and dappled with sores that almost certainly are malignant.  
Everywhere, softness snuggles up to hardness.  Hardness shrugs, 
says, "So what?" ---rakes in a scum of dollars, jams foot-long 
needles into its vein.  Tender green leaves are unfurling on 
thousands of soot-encrusted limbs.  The acrid, Mephistophelian 
odor of vehicular exhaust stands out sharply against the 
chlorophyll.  When a person breathes, one nostril sucks in a 
witchy waft of poisons, the other the syrup-scented push of plant 
life.  In the mingle of moonlight and headlamps, neon and leaf-glow, 
the skyscrapers are as beautiful as a procession of Hindu saints.  
Bubbling, winking, and crawling with light, they seem as full of 
sap as the maples in the park.

"Spilling from tenements and condominiums, from boutiques and 
bodegas, the anxious multitudes have found a new tempo, a pace 
in between the windup-toy frenzy of winter and the deep-sea diver 
drag of the humid summer to come.  Crushing Styrofoam burger 
cartons, condom packs, hypodermic syringes, and graffiti-spewing 
spray cans underfoot, they almost dance as they walk, an unconscious 
rite of spring in their steps, a forgotten memory of sod and seed 
and lamb and ring-around-the-rosy....  
.
.
.
"By July, the air in New York will be pumped up on steroids: 
brutish biceps will flex in the lungs of everyone who inhales 
it, and against the cheeks of the sensitive it will rake like 
stubble.  On this April evening, however, the atmosphere is 
plainly feminine.  The smog wears lace, the breeze is wrapped 
in maternity cottons, and the jaded urbanites, winked at and 
cooed to, have let their defenses down.  Just before dusk, a 
slide rule of Canadian gees engineers over Manhattan, giving 
traffic a honking lesson that nearly drains its batteries.  The 
necks of millions crane as one to follow the flight of the geese, 
and when the flock fades into the haze, an ancient intoxication 
seizes the collective brain.  Everyone now is mildly drunk on 
wild goose wine."

    Here's another good segment from Skinny Legs and All
    on what late September feels like:
    
    "The hour was 4:00 p.m., the day Monday, the month Spetember.
    Late September.  So late that you'd have to look closely to 
    distinguish it from October.  Dip a slice of bread in batter.  
    That's September: yellow gold, soft, and sticky.  Fry the bread.
    Now you have October: chewier, drier, streaked with browns.  The
    day in question fell somewhere in the middle of the french toast
    process.  A hint of chilled marmalade in the air."
    
    And later in the book:
    
    "November played out its hand: two dark aces, a pair of shivering
    treys, and the jack of pumpkins."

    
    I love Tom Robbins too.  I wish he'd come out with a new book.  It's
    been a while since "Skinny Legs and All."  "Even Cowgirls Get the
    Blues" is one of my all time favorite books.
    
    

Well, I don't often go off about one writer or book, but I just 
finished Skinny Legs and All, and I just can't say enough good 
stuff about it.  Not only is Robbins a talented writer, but he's 
got an unusual way of seeing stuff.  I can't help but enter one 
more section to exemplify his knack for describing even the most 
abstract concepts of modern life.  This one blew me away:

  "Whenever a state or an individual cited "insufficient funds" 
  as an excuse for neglecting this important thing or that, it 
  was indicative of the extent to which reality had been distorted 
  by the abstract lens of wealth.  During periods of so-called 
  economic depression, for example, societies suffered for want 
  of all manner of essential goods, yet investigation almost 
  invariably disclosed that there were plenty of goods available.  
  Plenty of coal in the ground, corn in the fields, wool on the 
  sheep.  What was missing was not materials but an abstract 
  unit of measurement called "money." It was akin to a starving 
  woman with a sweet tooth lamenting that she couln't bake a cake 
  because she didn't have any ounces.  She had butter, flour, eggs, 
  milk, and sugar, she just didn't have any ounces, any pinches, 
  any pints.  The loony legacy of money was that the arithmetic by 
  which things were measured had become more valuable than the 
  things themselves."  

    Hi Phyllis,
    
    Yes, "Even Cowgirls Get the Blues" is one of the next ones on my
    list.  "Still Life with Woodpecker" is probably next, though, 'cuz
    people have been recommending for years that I read that one.  
    "Jitterbug Perfume" and "Another Roadside Attraction" are also 
    listed in his byline.
    
    I'm definitely heading toward a Tom Robbins binge!
    
    One disclaimer:  
    
    >> <<< Note 117.296 by BOOKIE::BOOS >>>
         -< Read it! Read it! Read it! >-
    
    I should note that anyone with strong fundamentalist christian beliefs
    or strong feelings about any organized religion might find this book
    somewhat offensive.  Robbins makes a searing case against organized
    religion, and the general tone of the book isn't very, um, religion-
    friendly (sorry Jum, et. al.).
    
    -Helen

    
    Wow Helen, you have some great reading ahead of you.  "Skinny Legs and
    All" was my least favorite of the five, although it was still great.  I
    found it a little heavy handed.  Like, okay, these are the lessons
    you're gonna learn when reading this book:  #1, #2, etc.  His others
    are much more subtle.  I think I liked them in this order:  Cowgirls,
    Another Roadside, Jitterbug, Still Life, Skinny Legs..  I think.. it's
    been a while.  Cowgirls is definately #1 though! 
    
    

    Wow -- thanks for rating them, Phyllis.  If Skinny is the least 
    likable of the bunch, I can't wait to read the others!
    
    I know what you mean about it being heavy handed.  I guess I didn't 
    mind, since I agree with everything he says.  :-)

The only Tom Robbins I've read was "Another Roadside Attraction."
Loved that book!!!

Yes, quite the commentary on "organized" religion.  Seemed to be not to
bash religion, per se, but religion where some other "human being" decides
what's "right" vs. what is "wrong".

Robbins reminds me of a cross between Douglas Adams (of Hitchhiker's Guide...
fame) and Kurt Vonnegat (sp?)!  Odd combo, eh? :-)

Dave

    >>Seemed to be not to
    >>bash religion, per se, but religion where some other "human being"
    >>decides what's "right" vs. what is "wrong".
    
    Ahhhhhhh, you're right, Dave...you put your finger right on the 
    button.  Well said!  And I think he made the point that all 
    organized religion is really the same: some other human being 
    deciding for everyone else what is right and wrong.
    
    Yes, at times he does remind me of Vonnegut, the way he gives his 
    characters the most unusual and quirky characteristics, such as the
    sexy hispanic doorman, Raoul, who ends every sentence with "man" 
    ("The day would come, man, when every blanquita in New York would 
    want Raoul Ritz, man.  Raoul was born to star.") and makes it to the
    big time in L.A. recording love songs with lousy lyrics: 
    
    		"My heart is a third world country
    		And your love is a tourist from Switzerland.
    		Never trust a country tht won't allow live poultry
		To ride on its buses.    		
    		Oh, never trust a country
    		That won't permit live poultry to ride on the bus."
                
    		
    I haven't read "Hitchhiker's Guide" yet.  I'm way behind on my 
    reading list!  :-)
    
    -Helen		
    		         

    But one of the basic assumptions of religion is that a higher power has
    told the followers what is right and wrong and they are only trying to
    save others' souls by pressing that moral code upon them.  They usually
    have the best of intentions.
    
    I have to admit that I won't be seeking out any of his books because of
    your entries.  His writing style would drive me nuts.  Like a filbert
    at Christmastime.  Or an almond surrounded by nougat.
    
    Jamie

>Robbins reminds me of a cross between Douglas Adams (of Hitchhiker's Guide...
>fame) and Kurt Vonnegat (sp?)!  Odd combo, eh? :-)

hmmm... interesting thought...

i've read all of the Tom Robbins books (that I know of) except for Another
Roadside Attraction; maybe I'll pick that one up soon

re: Hitchhiker's

definitely read it if you haven't; they're great books; i've twice read the
original 4 books of the "trilogy"; haven't yet read the new one

re: Vonnegut

all i ever read by him was Slaughterhouse Five; i really liked that one; any-
body else have any good recommendations?

- rich

    >>like a filbert at Christmastime.  Or an almond surrounded by nougat.
    
    Oh, wow -- *excellent* imagery, man!  Have you ever thought of trying
    to get published?
    
    :-) :-) :-)
    
    -Helen

    re .-1
    
    I've been published . . . and boy did it smart!  Look for an upcoming
    interview in Test and Measurement World.  Tomorrow, Vanity Fair.
    
    My favorite Vonnegeut is Cat's Cradle.  The Dead liked it too, and
    named their music publishing company Ice Nine after a particularly
    nasty form of water described in the book.
    
    Jamie

I'll just stick to my Cummings, thenk you...


between green
		mountains
sings the finger
of

fire   beyond red rivers
of fair perpetual
feet the
sinuous

	riot

the 
flashing
bacchant.

partedpetaled
mouth,face
delirious.  indivisible
grace

	of dancing

    Oooo, an article in Test and Measurement World.  I'll bet 
    there's lots of nifty metaphors in that article, eh?  Metaphors
    that really take the cake, so to speak?  :-)
    
    As far as Robbins' writing style, don't judge the whole book by
    my entries.  There really is lots of great plot and character 
    development, suspense and humor.  I just have a thing for imagery,
    so I probably expect other people to be equally impressed with 
    these passages.  
    
    On the other hand, if you're sensitive to the religion thing, 
    it's probably not for you...
    
    -Helen 

    recommendations?  For Vonnegut?  Cat's Cradle for one.  It will give
    you insight into Ice Nine Publishing ;-)  And then there's 
    "The Siren's of Titan"  I think this one establishes what a 
    chrono-synclastic infidibulum is (which is what Billy Christian
    fell into, wasn't it??)  And then there's the collection of 
    short stories, Welcome to the Monkey House.  I still long for the
    sanity of Harrison Bergeron (at least I think that's the story I'm
    thinking about ;-)
    
    Any body ever read "A Winter's Tale" by Mark Helprin (sp?)  A great
    fanciful, ah, rather fancy full, book that deals with the coming 
    millenium, among other things.
    
    But I think my all time favorite quote, from any book, has to go 
    to James Joyce in "Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man"  I
    occasionally write this as grafitti in bathrooms ;-)
    
    "When would he be like the fellows in poetry and rhetoric? They had big 
    voices and big boots and studied trigonometry."
    
    PeterT
    

    
    I loved "A Winters Tale" by Helprin.  I also read another great book by
    him..I can't remember the title right now, though... oh, I know,
    "Soldier of the Great War" (or something similar)
    
    Other great Vonneguts: "Breakfast of Champions", "Hocus Pocus",
    "Bluebeard", "Galapagos"
    
    

    another vote for "Galapagos"...  i loved "Slaughterhouse Five"
    and "Galapapos" was a trip... :^)
    
    					da ve

    I read "Slaughterhouse Five" and "Breakfast of Champions" a long 
    time ago.  Both were good,  but someone told me that "Breakfast" 
    incorporates bits and pieces of his other books.  I enjoyed the 
    book but have a feeling that I missed a lot because I never read 
    the others.  Also, I was disappointed with the ending.
    
    -helen

>    time ago.  Both were good,  but someone told me that "Breakfast" 
>    incorporates bits and pieces of his other books.  I enjoyed the 

Well, I wouldn't say that Breakfast copies sections from other books, its
more like there are reccurring themes in his books; like the character 
Kilgore Trout.

Sometime in the seventies, Vonnugut wrote a sci-fi book titled Venus On the
Half Shell, but it was published under the psuedonym Kilgore Trout. Its out
of print and very hard to find, but I think it was his best book ever. The
main character is a time traveler, who, while searching for the creator of
the universe (a giant cockroach), is forcefully emplanted with a tail which
was later removed. Througout the rest of the book, he continually has to
decline offers to sit down. 

    Vonnegut did not write "Venus on the Half-Shell", he just provided the
    setting of a well known fictional author.  Phillip Jose' Farmer
    (RiverWorld series and a bunch of others) assumed the pseudonym of
    Kilgore Trout for this one.  I'm sure it was done with Vonnegut's
    permission though.
    
    PeterT
    

really????

Wow. The style was so Vonnegutt-like.

I'm gonna hafta check out s'more of his werks: reccomendations?

    I'm not a big follower of Phillip Jose' Farmer, and certainly haven't
    read anything by him in a while.  What I did read of the RiverWorld
    series was likable.  I think it starts out with "To Your Scattered
    Bodies Go".  I'll check over in the SF notes conference to see if
    there are any must-reads.
    
    But I'm headed to Florida for a week's vacation on Friday.  So in 
    trying to decide which books to bring along I think I settled on 
    "Rama II" (since I'm into it by about a 150 pages already.  Not
    as good as Rendevous with Rama perhaps, but after a slow start it
    has caught my attention.) and I think I'll pick up Jack Vance's
    "Ecce and Old Earth".  Any Vance is worthwile reading.
    
    Later,
    PeterT
    

    Got "Lost Horizons" and "The Monkey Wrench gang" lined up for 
    reading on the AT. Have'nt decided which one I'll be taking
    yet. Probably Lost Horizons.

Just finished reading the Bill Graham biography.  Great book!  Most if it
is directly quoteing interviews or comments from people in his life, or on the
scene at the time.  So the book reads like you are at a big get-together of
people reminiscing about him.  His sisters, people he worked with when he
was a waiter in the Catskills, Mime Troupers, assorted SF rock artists, etc.

Lots of really funny stories in it, too!   Graham often liked to compare
a situation to scenes from his favorite movies... f'rinstince when he's talking
about, say, when (in some early '66 type show) the cops came to shut down
the concert, he might say, "this wasn't Pat O'Brien talking to Jimmy Cagney!"
:-)

Currently reading the Keith Richards biography (by Victor Bockris).  Pretty
good, not too dissimilar from the way things were described by Bill Wyman
in his _auto_biography.

Got both books out of my library!

 Josh

"Neuromancer" - by William Gibson (sp?)

Reminds me of work, except I don't have a color screen...;-)

tim

This just out...


   Bill Graham Presents: My Life Inside Rock and Out 
   By BG and Robert Greenfield, $12.95

Sorry, didn't catch Publisher info 

    
    "Lasher", Anne Rice's sequel to "The Witching Hour".  Well, actually I
    will be reading it - probably won't get a chance to start until the
    weekend but I can't wait!!  :-)
    
    

    "Where is Joe Merchant" - Jimmy Buffett
    
    Fun - just like his music!!!
    
    :-)
    Scott

    the CIGNA insurance packet....just let me die in peace! (or at a dead
    show!)
    
    rfb

    I just got finished with Howard Stern's "Private Parts" ...  ;-)

    ... it's just like the radio show:  rude, gross, demoralizing, and
    pretty funny (IMO).
    

    - jeff

Sacred Clowns - Tony Hillerman's latest Jim Chee/Joe Leaphorn Mystery.  Which,
since it's already overdue from the library, is making me put aside for the
moment,  "A Fire Upon the Deep" by Vernor Vinge.

And I still haven't decided if I'm going to return and finish up "Downbelow 
Station" by CJ Cherryh, as it's sort of bleak and depressing, if well
written.

PeterT

    As I shuffle off to Florida for the big T-day vacation...My book of
    choice is Clockers by Richard Price (he also wrote The Wanderers and
    many screenplays=The Color of Money being one).  This book takes place
    in a fictional urban NJ town (now that's an oxoymoron if I ever heard 
    one!) overrun with drug dealers and how the whole "system" is a
    failure.  While I make this sound pretty grim, the book is quite
    absorbing.  
    
    Next on my list is The Last Tsar which is pretty self evident.
    
    gobble, gobble to all.
    
    Fredda 

    Just got back from Tampa on business(for real), 85 degrees all three
    days, started and got half way through" Private Parts", by Howard
    Stern. So far so strange...., interesting to know his Boston
    connection. I would not reccommend it for those not able to see
    R movies. Not a coffee table book.

    "The Hall of the Mountain King" I forgot the author's name.
    
    It tells the story of an expedition to the summit of Mt. McKinley. 
    Lots of good stuff about team selection, gear, the relationships
    among the team, the trials and tribulations and the danger they and
    other climbers faced.
    
    Marv
    

>    "The Hall of the Mountain King" I forgot the author's name.
    
That's the story of the '67 Wilcox party climb, right? A bit of bad weather 
hit them, if I remember corectly. Karsten's ridge can be a bummer in bad 
weather. Wasn't that written by one of the Babcocks'?

    That's the one.  Like I said, I have a mental block on the author but
    you got that right one.
    
    Someday I'd like to get up there and visit the King myself.
    
    Marv
    

    right now I'm reading (and typing in) the cover article from this
    week's Village Voice.  Here's part 1:
    
A RAPE IN CYBERSPACE
How an evil clown, a haitian trickster spirit, two wizards, and a
cast of dozens turned a database into a society.

w/o permission from the December 21st edition of the Village Voice.

They say he raped them that night.  They say he did it with a cunning
little doll, fashioned in their image and imbued with the power to
make them do whatever he desired.  They say that by manipulating the
doll he forced them to have sex with him, and with each other, and to
do horrible, brutal things to their own bodies.  And though I wasn't 
there that night, I think I can assure you that what they say is true,
because it all happened right in the living room - right there amid the 
well-stocked bookcases and the sofas and the fireplace - of a house I've
come to think of as my second home.

Call me Dr. Bombay.  Some months ago - let's say about halfway between
the first time you heard the works information super-highway and the
first time you wished you never had - I found myself tripping with
compulsive regularity down the well-traveled information lane that
leads to LambdaMOO, a very large and very busy rustic chateau built
entirely of words.  Nightly, I typed the commands that called those
words onto my computer screen, dropping me with what seemed a warm
electric thud inside the mansion's darkened coat closet, where I checked
my quotidian identity, stepped into the persona and appearance of a 
minor character from a long-gone television sit-com, and stepped out
into the glaring chatter of the crowded living room.  Sometimes, when
the mood struck me, I emerged as a dolphin instead.

I won't say why I chose to masquerade as Samantha Steven's outlandish
cousin, or as the dolphin, or what exactly led to my mild but so-far
incurable addiction to the semifictional digitial otherworlds known 
around the Internet as multi-user dimensions, or MUDs.  This isn't my
story, after all.  It's the story of a man named Mr. Bungle, and of 
the ghostly sexual violence he committed in the halls of LambdaMOO, 
and most importanly of the ways his violence and his victims challenged
the 1500 and more residents of that surreal, magic-infested mansion to
become, finally, the community so many of them already believed they
were.

That I was myself one of those residents has little direct bearing on 
the story's events.  I mention it only as a warning that my own
perspective is perhaps too steeped in the surreality and magic of the
place to serve as an entirely reliable guide.  For the Bungle Affair
raises questions that - here on the brink of a future in which human 
life may find itself as tightly enveloped in digital environments as
it is today in the architectural kind - demand a clear-eyed, sober, 
and unmystified consideration.  It asks us to shut our ears momentarily
to the techno-utopian ecstasies of West Cost cyberhippies and look with
out illusion upon the present possibilities for building, in the on-line
spaces of this world, societies more decent and free than those mapped
onto diret and concrete and capital.  It asks us to behold the new
bodies awaiting us in virtual space undazzled by their phantom powers,
and to get to the crucial work of sorting out the socially meaningful
differences between those bodies and our physical ones.  And most
forthrightly it asks us to wrap our late-modern ontologies, 
epistemologies, sexual ethics, and common sense around the curious
notion of rape by voodoo doll - and to try not to warp them beyond 
recognition in the process.

In short, the Bungle Affair dares me to explain it to you without
resort to dime-store mystecisms, and I fear I may have shape-shifted
by the digital moonlight one too many times to be quite up to the
task.  But I will do what I can, and can do no better I suppose than
to lead with the facts.  For if nothing else about Mr. Bungle's case
is unambiguous, the facts at least are crystal clear.

<to be continued..>

Neat.  Who's the author?

tim

    Julian Dibbell.
    
got some more time sooner than I thought so here's some more..

A RAPE IN CYBERSPACE (continued..)

The facts begin (as they often do) with a time and a place.  The
time was a Monday night in March, and the place, as I've said, was
the living room - which, due to the inviting warmth of its decor, is
so invariably packed with chitchaters as to be roughly synonymous
amoung LambdaMOOers with a party.  So strong, indeed, is the sense
of convivial common ground invested in the living room that a cruel
mind could hardly imagine a better place in which to stage a 
violation of LambdaMOO's communal spirit.  And there was cruelty
enough lurking in the appearance Mr. Bungle presented to the virtual
world at the time - he was a fat, oleaginous, Bisquick-faced clown
dressed in cum-stained harlequin garb and girdled with a mistle-toe-
and-hemlock belt whose buckle bore the quaint inscription "KISS ME
UNDER THIS, BITCH!"  But whether cruelty motivated his choice of 
crime scene is not among the established facts of the case.  It is
a fact only that he did choose the living room.

The remaining facts tell us a bit more about the inner world of Mr.
Bungle, though only perhaps that it coudln't have been a very 
comfortable place.  They tell us that he commenced his assault
entirely unprovoked, at or about 10pm PST.  That he began by using
his voodoo doll to force one of the room's occupants to sexually 
service him in a variety of more or less conventional ways.  That 
this victim was legba, a Haitian trickster spirit of indeterminate
gender, brown-skinned and wearing an expensive pearl grey suit, top
hat, and dark glasses.  That legba heaped vicious imprecations on
him all the while and that he was soon ejected bodily from the room.
That he hid himself away then in his private chambers somewhere on
the mansion grounds and continued the attacks without interruption,
since the voodoo doll worked just as well at a distance as in 
proximity.  That he turned his attentions now to Starsinger, a
rather pointedly nondescript female character, tall, stout, and 
brown-haired, forcing her into unwanted liaisons with other 
individuals present in the room, among them legba, Bakunin (the 
well-known radical) and Juniper (the squirrel).  That his actions
grew progressively violent.  That he made legba eat his/her own
pubic hair.  That he caused Starsinger to violate herself with a
piece of kitchen cutlery.  That his distant laughter echoed evily
in the living room with every successive outrage.  That he could
not be stopped until at last someone summoned Zippy, a wise and
trusted old-timer who brought with him a gun of near wizardly
powers, a gun that didn't kill but enveloped its targets in a
cage impermeable even to a voodoo doll's powers.  That Zippy
fired this gun at Mr. Bungle, thwarting the doll at last and
silencing the evil, distant laughter.

These particulars, as I said, are unambiguous.  But they are far
from simple, for the simple reason that every set of facts in
virtual reality (or VR, as the locals abbreviate it) is shadowed
by a second, complicating set: the "real-life" facts.  And while
a certain tension invariably buzzes in the gap between the hard,
prosaic RL falcts and their more fluid, dreamy VR counterparts,
the dissonance in the Bungle case is striking.  No hideous clowns
or trickster spirits appear in the RL version of the incident, no
voodoo dolls or wizard guns, indeed no rape at all as any RL court
of law has yet defined it.  The actors in this drama were university
students for the most part, and they sat rather undramatically
before computer screens the entire time, their only actions a
spidery flitting of fingers across standard QWERTY keyboards.  No 
bodies touched.  Whatever physical interaction occurred consisted
of a mingling of electronic signals sent from sites spread out 
between New York City and Sydney, Australia.  Those signals met in
LambdaMOO, certainly just as the hideous clown and the living 
room party did, but what was LambdaMOO after all?  Not an enchanted
mansion or anything of the sort - just a middlingly complex data-
base, maintained for experimental purposes inside a Xerox Corp.'s
research computer in Palo Alto and open to public access via the
Internet.

To be more precise about it, LambdaMOO was a MUD, or to be yet more
precise, it was subspecies of MUD known as a MOO, which is short 
for "MUD, Object-Oriented."  All of which means that it was a kind
of database especially designed to give users the vivid impression
of moving through a physical space that in reality exists only as
descriptive data filed away on a hard drive.  When users dial into
LambdaMOO, for instance, the program immediately presents them with
a brief textual description of one of the rooms of the database's
ficitional mansion (the coat closet, say).  If they user wants to
leave this room, she can enter a command to move in a particular
direction and the database will replace the original description 
with a new one corresponding to the room located in the direction
she chose.  When the new description scrolls across the user's 
screen, it lists not only the fixed features of the room but all
its contents at that moment - including things (tools, toys, 
weapons) and other users (each represented as a "character" over
which he or she has sole control).

As far as the databse program is concerned, all of these entities
- rooms, things, characters - are just different subprograms that
the program allows to interact according to rules very roughly
mimicking the laws of the physical world.  Characters may not
leave a room in a given direction, for instance, unless the room 
subprogram contains an "exit" at that compass point.  And if a
character "says" or "does" something (as directed by its user-
owner), then only the users whose characters are also located 
in that room will see the output describing the statement or
action.  Aside from such basic constraints, however, LambdaMOOers
are allowed a broad freedom to create - they can describe their
characters any way they like, they can make rooms of their own
and decorate them to taste, and they can build new objects 
almost at will.  The combination of all this busy user activity
with the hard physics of the database can certainly induce a lucid
illusion of presence - but when all is said and done the only thing
you can *really* see when you visit LambdaMOO is a kind of slow-
crawling script, lines of dialogue and stage direction creeping
steadily up your computer screen.

Which is all just to say that, to the extent that Mr. Bungle's
assault happened in real life at all, it happened as a sort of
Punch-and-Judy show, in which the puppets and the scenery were
made of nothing more substantial than digital code and snippets
of creative writing.  The puppeteer behind Bungle, as it happened,
was a young man logging in to the MOO from a New York University
computer.  He could have been Al Gore for all any of the others
knew, however, and he could have written Bungle's script that
night any way he chose.  He could have sent a command to print
the message "Mr. Bungle, smiling a saintly smile, floats angelic
near the ceiling of the living room, showering joy and candy
kisses down upon the heads of all below" - and everyone then
receiving output from the database's subprogram #17 (aka the 
living room) would have seen that sentence on their screens.

Instead, he entered sadistic fantasies into the "voodoo doll",
a subprogram that served the not-exactly kosher purpose of 
attributing actions to other characters that their users did
not actually write.  And thus a woman in Haverford, PA, whose
account on the MOO attached her to a character she called
Starsinger, was given the unasked-for opportunity to read the
words "As if against her will, Starsinger jabs a steak knife
up her ass, causing immense joy.  You hear Mr. Bungle laughing
evilly in the distance."  And thus the woman in Seattle who
had written herself the character called legba, with a view
perhaps to tasting in imagination a deity's freedom from the
burdens of the gendered flesh, got to read similarly constructed
sentences in which legba, messenger of the gods, lord of cross-
roads and communications, suffered a brand of degradation all-
too-customarily reserved for the embodied female.

<to be continued..>

Wow

    A RAPE IN CYBERSPACE (continued..)
    
"Mostly voodoo dolls are amusing," wrote legba on the evening
after Bungle's rampage, posting a public statement to the 
widely read in-MOO mailing list called "so-cial-issues" a
forum for debate on matters of import to the entire populace.
"And mostly I tend to think that restrictive measures around
here cause more trouble than they prevent.  But I also think
that Mr. Bungle was being a vicious, vile fuckhead, and I...
want his sorry ass scattered from #17 to the Cinder Pile.  I'm
not calling for policies, trials, or better jails.  I'm not 
sure what I'm calling for.  Virtual castration, if I could
manage it.  Mostly, [this type of thing] doesn't happen here.
Mostly, perhaps I thought it wouldn't happen to me.  Mostly,
I trust people to conduct themselves with some veneer of 
civility.  Mostly, I want his ass."

Months later, the woman in Seattle would confide to me that 
as she wrote those words posttraumatic tears were streaming
down her face - a real-life fact that should suffice to prove
that the words' emotional content was no mere playacting.  The
precise tenor of that contect, however, its mingling of
murderous rage and eyeball-rolling annoyance, was a curious 
amalgam that neither the RL nor the VR facts alone can quite
account for.  Where virtual reality and its conventions would
have us believe that legba and Starsinger were brutally raped
in their own living room, here was the victim legba scolding 
Mr. bungle for a breach of "civility."  Where real life, on the 
other hand, insists the incident was only an episode in a free-
form version of Dungeons and Dragons, confined to the realm of 
the symbolic and at no point threatening any player's life, limb,
or material well-being, here now was the player legba issuing
aggrieved and heartfelt calls for Mr. Bungle's dismemberment.  
Ludicrously excessive by RL's lights, woefully understated by
VR's, the tone of legba's response made sense only in the
buzzing, dissonant gap between them.

Which is to say it made the only kind of sense that can be made
of MUDly phenomena.  For while the facts attached to any event
born of a MUD's strange, ethereal universe may march in straight,
tandem lines separated neatly into the virtual and the real, it's
meaning lies always in that gap.  You learn this axiom early in
your life as a player, and it's of no small relevance to the Bungle
case that you usually learn it between the sheets, so to speak.
Netsex, tiny-sex, virtual sex - however you name it, in real-life 
reality it's nothing more than a 900-line encounter stripped of 
even the vestigial physicality of the voice.  And yet as any but
the most inhibited of newbies can tell you, it's possibly the
headiest experience the very heady world of MUDs has to offer.
Amid flurries of even the most cursily described caresses, sighs,
and penetrations, the glands do engage, and often as throbbingly
as they would in a real-life assignation - sometimes even more 
so, given the combined power of anonymity and textual suggestive-
ness to unshackle deep-seated fantasies.  And if the virtual 
setting and the interplayer vibe are right, who knows?  The heart
may engage as well, stirring up passions as strong as many that
bind lovers who observe the formality of trysting in the flesh.

To participate, therefore, in this disembodied enactment of one's
life's most body-centered activity is to risk the realization that
when it comes to sex, perhaps the body in question is not the
physical one at all, but its psychic double, the bodylike self-
representation we carry around in our heads.  I know, I know, 
you've read Foucault and your mind is not quite blown by the 
notion that sex is neve so much an exchange of fluids as it is
an exchange of signs.  But trust your friend Dr. Bombay, it's 
one thing to grasp the notion intellectually and quite another
to feel it coursing through your veins amid the virtual steam of
hot net-nookie.  And it's a whole other mind-blowing trip
altogether to encounter it thus as a college frosh, new to the 
net and still in the grip of hormonal hurricanes and high-school
sexual mythologies.  The schock can easily reverberate throughout
an entire your worldview.  Small wonder, then, that a newbie's
1st taste of MUD sex is often also the first time he or she
surrenders wholly to the slippery terms of MUDish ontology,
recognizing in a full-bodied way that what happens inside a 
MUD-made world is neither exactly real nor exactly make-believe,
but profoundly, compellingly, and emotionally meaningful.

And small wonder indeed that the sexual nature of Mr. Bungle's
crime provoked such powerful feelings, and not just in legba
(who, be it noted, was in real life a theory-savvy doctoral
candidate and a longtime MOOer, but just as baffled and over-
whelmed by the force of her own reaction, she later would attest,
as any panting undergrad might have been).  Even players who had
never experienced MUD rape (the vast majority of male-presenting
characters, but not as large a majority of the female-presenting
as might be hoped) immediately appreciated its gravity and were
moved to condemnation of the perp. legba's missive to "social-
issues" followed a strongly worded one from Zippy ("Well, well"
it began, "no matter what else happens on Lambda, I can always
be sure that some jerk is going to reinforce my low opinion of
humanity") and was itself followed by others from Moriah, Raccoon,
Crawfish, and evangeline.  Starsinger also let her feelings 
("pissed") be known.  And even Jander, the clueless Samaritan 
who had responded to Bungle's cries for help and uncaged him
shortly after the incident, expressed his regret once apprised
of Bungle's deeds, which he allowed to be "despicable."

A sense was brewing that something needed to be done - done 
soon and in something like an organized fashion - about Mr. Bungle,
in particular, and about MUD rape, in general.  Regarding the 
general problem, evangeline, who identified herself as a survivor 
of both virtual rape ("many times over") and real-life sexual
assault, floated a cautious proposal for a MOO-wide powwow on the
subject of virtual sex offenses and what mechanisms if any might
be put in place to deal with their future occurrence.  As for
the specific problem, the answer no doubt seemed obvious to many.
But it wasn't until the evening of the 2nd day after the incident
that legba, finally and rather solemnly, gave it voice:

"I am requesting that Mr. Bungle be toaded for raping Starsinger
and I.  I have never done this before, and have tought about it
for days.  He hurt us both."

That was all.  Three simple sentences posted to "social".  Reading
them, an outsider might never guess that they were an application
for a death warrant.  Even an outsider familiar with other MUDs
might not guess it, since in many of them "toading" still refers
to a command that, true to MUDding's origins in the world of 
sword-and-sorcery role-playing games, simply turns a player into
a toad, wiping the player's description and attributes and
replacing them with those of the slimy amphibian.  Bad luck for
sure, but not quite as bad as what happens when the same command
is invoked in the MOOish strains of MUD: not only are the 
description and attributes of the toaded player erased, but the
account itself goes too.  The annihilation of the character, thus,
is total.

And nothing less than total annihilation, it seemed, would do to
settle LambdaMOO's accounts with Mr. Bungle.  Within minutes of
the posting of legba's appeal, SamIAm, the Australian Deleuzean,
who had witnessed much of the attack from the back room of his
suburban Sydney home, seconded the motion with a brief message
crisply entitled "Toad the fukr."  SamIAm's posting was seconded
almost as quickly by that of Bakunin, covictim of Mr. Bungle and
well-known radical, who in real life happened also to be married
to the real-life legba.  And over the course of the next 24 hours
as many as 50 players made it known on "social" and in a variety
of other forms and forums, that they would be pleased to see Mr.
Bungle erased from the face of MOO.  With dissent so far confined
to a dozen or so antitoading hardliners, the numbers suggested
that the citizenry was indeed moving towards a resolve to have
Bungle's virtual head.


<to be continued..>

    A RAPE IN CYBERSPACE (continued..)
    
There was one small but stubborn obstacle in the way of this resolve,
however, and that was a curious state of social affairs known in 
some quarters of the MOO as the New Direction.  It was all very fine,
you see, for the LambdaMOO rabble to get it in their heads to 
liquidate one of their peers, but when the time came to actually do
the deed it would require the services of a nobler class of character.
It would require a wizard.  Master-programmers of the MOO, spelunkers
of the database's deepest code-structures and custodians of its day-
to-day administrative trivia, wizards are also the only players 
empowered to issue the toad command, a feature maintained on nearly
all MUDs as a quick-and-dirty means of social control.  But the 
wizards of LambdaMOO, after years of adjudicating all manner of
interplay disputes with little to show for it but their own
weariness and the smoldering resentment of the general populace,
had decided they'd had enough of the social sphere.  And so, four 
months before the Bungle incident, the archwizard Haakon (known in
RL as Pavel Curtis, Xerox researcher and LambdaMOO's principal
architect) formalized this decision in a document called "LambdaMOO
Takes a New Direction," which was placed in the living room for all
to see.  In it, Haakon announced that the wizards from that day
forth were pure technicians.  From then on, they would make no
decisions the community as a whole directed them to.  From then on,
it was decreed, LambdaMOO would just have to grow up and solve its 
problems on its own.

Faced with the task of inventing its own self-governance from
scratch, the LambdaMOO population had so far done what any other
loose, amorphous agglomeration of individuals whould have done:
they'd let it slide.  But now the task took on new urgency.  Since
getting the wizards to toad Mr. Bungle (or to toad the likes of him
in the future) required a convincing case that the cry for his
head came from the commuinity at large, then the community itself
would have to be defined; and if the community was to be convinc-
ingly defined, then some form of social organization, no matter
how rudimentary, would have to be settled on.  And thus, as if
against its will, the question of what to do about Mr. Bungle began 
to shape itself into a sort of referendum on the political future
of the MOO.  Arguments broke out on "social" and elsewhere that 
had only superficially to do with Bungle (since everyone agreed
he was a cad) and everything to do with where teh participants
stood on LambdaMOO's crazy-quilt political map.  Parliamentarian
legalist types argued that unfortunately Bungle could not
legitimately be toaded at all, since there were no explicit MOO
rules against rape, or against just about anything else - and the
sooner such rules were established, they added, and maybe even a
full-blown judiciary system complete with elected officials and
prisons to enforce those rules, the better.  Others, with a 
royalist streak in them, seemed to feel that Bungle's as-yet-
unpunished outrage only proved this New Direction silliness had
gone on long enough, and that it was high time the wizardocracy
returned to the position of swift and decisive leadership their
player class was born to.

And then there were what I'll call the technolibertarians.  For
them, MUD rapists were of course assholes, but the presence of
assholes on the system was a technical inevitability, like noise
on a phone line, and best dealt with not through repressive social
disciplinary mechanisms but through the timely deployment of
defensive software tools.  Some asshole blasting violent, graphic
language at you?  Don't whine to the authorities about it - hit
the @gag command and the asshole's statements will be blocked from
your screen (and only yours).  It's simple, it's effective, and
it censors no one.

But the Bungle case was rather hard on such arguments.  For one
thing, the extremely public nature of the living room meant that
gagging would spare the victims only from witnessing their own
violation, but not from having others witness it.  You might want
to argue that what those victims didn't directly experience 
couldn't hurt them, but consider how that wisdom would sound to 
a woman wou'd been, say, fondled by strangers while passed out
drunk and you have a rough idea how it might go over with a crowd
of hard-core MOOers.  Consider for another thing, that many of the
biologically female participants in the Bungle debate had been 
around long enough to grow lethally weary of the gag-and-get-over-it
school of virtual rape counseling, with its fine line between 
empowering victims and holding them responsible for thier own
suffering, and it's shrugging indifference to the window of pain
between the moment the rape-text starts flowing and the moment a
gag shuts it off.  From the outset it was clear that the techno-
libertarians were going to have to tiptoe through this issue with
care, and for the most part they did.

Yet no position was trickier to maintain than that of the MOO's 
resident anarchists.  Like the technolibbers, the anarchists 
didn't care much for punishments or policies or power elites.  LIke
them, they hoped the MOO could be a place where people interacted
fulfillingly without the need for such things.  But their high
hopes were complicated, in general, by a somewhat less thorough-
going faith in technology ("Even if you can't tear down the master's
house with the master's tools" - read a slogan written into one
anarchist player's self-description - "it's a damned good place to
start").  And at present they were additionally complicated by the
fact that the most vocal anarchists in the discussion were none other
than legba, Bakunin, and SamIAm, who wanted to see Mr. Bungle 
toaded as badly as anyone did.

Needless to say, a pro-death penalty platform is not an especially
comfortable one for an anarchist to sit on, so these particular
anarchists were now at great pains to sever the conceptual ties 
between toading and capital punishment.  Toading, they insisted
(almost convincingly), was much more closely analagous to banishment;
it was a kind of turning of the communal back on the offending 
party, a collective action that, if carried out properly, was
entirely consistent with anarchist models of community.  And
carrying it out properly meant first and foremost building a 
consensus around it - a messy process for which there were no
easy technocratic substitutes.  It was going to take plenty of
good old-fashioned, jawbone-intensive grassroots organizing.


<to be continued next week...>

    Good find dar Phyllis...i'm rilly gettin' into this...i almost feel
    like a LamdaMOO'er myself at this point.
    
    Thanks for takin' the time to put this in...
    
    							Dugo

Awaiting the conclusion with baited breath!

    
    A RAPE IN CYBERSPACE (continued..)
    
So that when the time came, at 7pm PST on the evening of the third
day after the occurance in the living room, to gather in evangeline's
room for her proposed real time open conclave, Bakunin and legba 
were among the first to arrive.  But this was hardly to be an
anarchist-dominated affair, for the room was crowding rapidly with
representatives of all the MOO's political stripes, and even a few
wizards.  Hagbard showed up, and Autumn and Quastro, Puff, JoeFeedback,
L-dopa and Bloaf, Herkie-Cosmo, Silver Rocket, Karl Porcupine,
Matchstick - the names piled up and the discussion gathered momentum
under their weight.  Arguments multiplied and mingled, players
talked past and through each other, the textual clutter of utterances
and gestures filled up the screen like thick cigar smoke.  Peaking in
number at around 30, this was one of the largest crowds that ever
gathered in a single LAMBdaMOO chamber, and while evangeline had
given her place a description that made it "infinite in expanse and
fluid in form," it now seemed anything but roomy.  You could almost
feel the claustrophobic air of the place, dank and overheated by
virtual bodies, pressing against your skin.

I know you could because I too was there, making my lone and 
insignificant appearance in this story.  Completely ignorant of any
of the goings-on that had led to the meeting, I wandered in purely to
see what the crowd was about, and though I observed the proceedings
for a good while, I confess I found it hard to grasp what was going
on.  I was still the rankest of newbies then, my MOO legs still too
unsteady to make the leaps of faith, logic, and empathy required to
meet the spectacle on its own terms.  I was fascinated by the concept
of virtual rape, but I couldn't quite take it seriously.

I this, though, I was in a small and mostly silent minority, for the
discussion that raged around me was of an almost unrelieved earnest-
ness, bent it seemed on examining every last aspect and implication
of Mr. Bungle's crime.  There were the central questions, of course:
thumbs up or down on Bungle's virtual existance?  And if down, how
then to insure that his toading was not just some isolated lynching
but a first step toward shaping LambdaMOO into a legitimate community?
Surrounding these, however, a tangle of weighty side issues prolifer-
ated.  What, some wondered, was the real-life legal status of the
offense?  Could Bungle's university administrators punish him for
sexual harrassment?  Could he be prosecuted under California state
laws against obscene phone calls?  Little enthusiasm was shown for
pursuing either of these lines of action, which testifies both to
the uniqueness of the crime and to the nimbleness with which the
discussants were negotiating its idiosyncrasies.  Many were the 
casual references to Bungle's deed as simply "rape," but these in no
way implied that the players had lost sight of all distinctions 
between the virtual and physical versions, or that they believed
Bungle should be dealt with in the same way a real-life criminal
would.  He had committed a MOO crime, and his punishment, if any,
would be meted out via the MOO.

On the other hand, little patience was shown toward any attempts
to downplay the seriousness of what Mr. Bungle had done.  When
the affable HerkieCosmo proposed, more in the way of a hypothesis
than an assertion, that "perhaps it's better to release...violent
tendencies in a virtual environment rather than in real life,"
he was tut-tutted so swiftly and relentlessly that he withdrew
the hypothesis altogether, apologizing humbly as he did so.  Not
that the assembly was averse to putting matters into a more
philosophical perspective.  "Where does the body end and the
mind begin?" young Quastro asked, amid recurring attempts to fine-tune
the differences between real and virtual violence.  "Is not the mind
a part of the body?"  "In MOO, the body *is* the mind," offered
HerkieCosmo gamely, and not at all implausibly, demonstrating the
ease with which very knotty metaphysical conundrums come undone in
VR.  The not-so-aptly named Obvious seemed to agree, arriving after
deep consideration fo the nature of Bungle's crime at the hardly
novel yet now somehow newly resonant conjecture "all reality might
consist of ideas, who knows."

On these and other matters the anarchists, the libertarians, the
legalists, the wizardists - and the wizards - all had their
thoughtful say.  But as the evening wore on and the talk grew more
heated and more heady, it seemed increasingly clear that the
vigorous intelligence being brought to bear on this swarm of issues
wasn't going to result in anything remotely like resolution.  The
perspectives were just too varied, the meme-scape just too slippery.
Again and again, arguments that looked at first to be heading in a
decisive direction ended up chasing their own tails; and slowly,
depressingly, a dusty haze of irrelevance gathered over the
proceedings.

It was almost a relief, therefore, when midway through the evening
Mr. Bungle himself, the living, breathing cause of all this talk,
teleported into the room.  Not that it was much of a surprise.  
Oddly enough, in the three days since his release from Zippy's cage,
Bungle has returned more than once to wander the public spaces of
LambdaMOO, walking willingly into one of the fiercest storms of
ill will and invective ever to rain down on a player.  He'd been
taking it all with a cureious and mostly silent passivity, and when
challenged face to virtual face by both legba and the genderless
elder statescharacter PatGently to defend himself on "social", he'd
demurred, mumbling something about Christ and expiation.  He was
equally quiet now, and his reception was still uniformly cool.
legba fixed an arctic stare on him - "no hate, no agner, no interest
at all.  Just...watching."  Others were more actively unfriendly.
"Asshole," spat Karl Porcupine, "creep."  But the harshest of the
MOO's hostility toward him had already been vented, and the 
attention he drew now was motivated more, it seemed by the opportunity
to probe the rapist's mind, to find out what made it tick and if
possible how to get it to tick differently.  In short, they wanted
to know why he'd done it.  So they asked him.

And Mr. Bungle thought about it.  And as eddies of discussion and 
debate continued to swirl around him, he though about it some more.
And then he said this:

"I engaged in a big of a psychological device that is called thought-
polarization, the fact that this is not RL simply added to heighten
the affect of the device.  It was purely a sequence of events with no
consequence on my RL existence."

They might have known.  Stilted though its diction was, the gist of
the answer was simple, and something many in the room had probably
already surmised:  Mr. Bungle was a psycho.  Not, perhaps, in real
life - but then in real life it's possible for reasonable people to
assume, as Bungle clearly did, that what transpires between word-
costumed characters within the boundaries of a make-believe world is,
if not mere play, then at most some kind of emotional laboratory
experiment.  INside the MOO, however, such thinking marked a person
as one of two basically subcompetent types.  The first was a newbie,
in which case the confusion was understandable, since there were 
few MOOers who had not, upon their first visits as anonymous "guest"
characters, mistaken the place for a vast playpen in which they might
act out there wildest fantasies without fear of censure.  ONly with
time and teh acquisition of a fixed character do players tend to make
the critical passage from anonymity to pseudonymity, developing the
concern for their character's reputation that marks the attainment
of virtual adulthood.  But while Mr. Bungle hadn't been around as long
as most MOOers, he'd been around long enough to leave his newbie
status behind, and his delusional statement therefore placed him
among the second type:  the sociopath.

And as there is but small percentage in arguing with a head case,
the room's attention gradually abandoned Mr. Bungle and returned to
the discussions that had previously occupied it.  But if the debate
had been edging toward ineffectuality before, Bungle's anticlimactic
appearance had evidently robbed it of any forward motion whatsoever.
What's more, from his lonely corner of the room Mr. Bungle kept
issuing periodic expressions of a prickly sort of remorse, interlaced
with sarcasm and belligerance, and though it was hard to tell if he
wasn't still just conducting his experiments, some people thought his
regret genuine enough that maybe he didn't deserve to be toaded after
all.  Logically, of course, discussion of the principal issues at hand
didn't require unanimous belief that Bungle was an irredeemable
bastard, but now that cracks were showing in that unanimty, the last 
of the meeting's fervor seemed to be draining out through them.

People started drifting away.  Mr. Bungle left first, then others
followed - one by one, in twos and threes, hugging friends and
waving goodnight.  By 9:45 only a handful remained, and the great
debate had wound down into casual conversation, the melancholy
remains of another fruitless good idea.  The arguments had been well-
honed, certainly, and perhaps might prove uselful in some as-yet-unclear
long run.  But at this point what seemed clear was the evangeline's
meeting had died, at last, and without any practical results to mark its
passing.

It was also at this point, most likely, that Joe Feedback reached his 
decision.  JoeFeedback was a wizard, a taciturn sort of fellow who'd
sat brooding on the sidelines all evening.  He hadn't said a lot, but
what he had said indicated that he took the crime committed against
legba and Starsinger very seriously, and that he felt no particular
compassion toward the character who had committed it.  But on the 
other hand, he had made it equally plain that he took the elimination
of a fellow player just as seriously, and moreover that he had no
desire to return to the days of wizardly fiat.  It must have been
difficult, therefore, to reconcile the conflicting impulses churning
within him at that moment.  In fact, it was probably impossible, for
as much as he would have liked to make himself an instrument of 
LambdaMOO's collective will, he surely realized that under the present
order of things he must in the final analysis either act alone or not
act at all.

So JoeFeedback acted alone.

He told the lingering few players in the room that he had to go, and
then he went.  It was a minute or two before 10.  He did it quietly
and he did it privately, but all anyone had to do to know he'd done
it was to type the @who command, which was normally what you typed
if you wanted to know a player's present location and the time he
last logged in.  But if you had run an @who on Mr. Bungle not too 
long after JoeFeedback left evangeline's room, the database would
have told you something different.

"Mr. Bungle," it would have said, "is not the name of any player."

The date, as it happened, was April Fool's Day, and it would still
be April Fool's Day for another two hours.  But this was no joke:
Mr. Bungle was truly dead and truly gone."


<to be continued..>

    Wow...i didn't know being 'toaded' could be so....well so....final.
    
    Left me feeling kinda sorry for Mr. Bungle...am i sick or what???

    A RAPE IN CYBERSPACE (Continued..)
    
They say that LambdaMOO has never been the same since Mr. Bungle's
toading.  They say as well that nothing's really changed.  And
though it skirts the fuzziest of dream-logics to say that both these
statements are true, the MOO is just the sort of fuzzy, dreamlike
place in which such contradictions thrive.

Certainly whatever civil society now informs LambdaMOO owes its 
existence to the Bungle Affair.  The archwizard Haakon made sure of
that.  Away on business for the duration fo the episode, Haakon
returned to find its wreckage strewn across the tiny universe he'd
set in motion.  The death of a player, the trauma of several others,
and the angst-ridden conscience of his colleague JoeFeedback 
presented themselves to his concerned and astonished attention, and
he resolved to see if he couldn't learn some lesson from it all.
For the better part of a day he brooded over the record of events
and arguments left in "social," then he sat pondering the chaotically
evolving shape of his creation, and at the day's end he descended once
again into the social arena of the MOO with another history-altering
proclamation.

It was probably his last, for what he now decreed was the final,
missing piece of the New Direction.  In a few days, Haakon announced,
he would build into the database a system of petitions and ballots 
whereby anyone could put to popular vote any social scheme requiring
wizardly powers for its implementation, with the results of the vote
to be binding on the wizards.  At last and for good, the awkward gap
between the will of the players and the efficacy of the technicians
would be closed.  And though some anarchists grumbled about the 
irony of Haakon's dictatorially imposing universal suffrange on an
unconsulted populace, in general the citizens of LambdaMOO seemed
to find it hard to fault a system more purely democratic than any
that could ever exist in real life.  Eight months and 11 ballot
measures later, widespread participation in the new regime has produced
a small arsenal of mechanisms for dealing with the types of violence 
that called the system into being.  MOO residents now have access to
an @boot command, for instance, with which to summarily eject berserker
"guest" characters.  And players can bring suit against one another
through an ad hoc arbitration system in which mutually agreed-upon
judges have at their disposition the full range of wizardly punish-
ments - up to an including the capital.

Yet the continued dependence on death as the ultimate keeper of the
peace suggests that this new MOO order may not be built on the most
solid of foundations.  For if life on LambdaMOO began to acquire more
coherence in the wake of toading, death retained all the fuzziness of
pre-Bungle days.  This truth was rather dramatically borne out, not
too many days after Bungle departed, by the arrival of a strange
new character named Dr. Jest.  There was a foreceful eccentricity to
the newcomer's manner, but the oddest thing about his style was its
striking yet unnameable familiarity.  And when he developed the
annoying habit of stuffing fellow players into a jar containing a
tiny simulacrum of a certain deceased rapist, the source of this
familiarity became obvious:

Mr. Bungle had risen from the grave.

In itself, Bungle's reincarnation as Dr. Jest was a remarkable turn
of events, but perhaps even more remarkable was the utter lack of
amazement with which the LambdaMOO public took note of it.  To be
sure, many residents were appalled by the brazenness of Bungle's
return.  In fact, one of the first petitions circulated under the
new voting system was a request for Dr. Jest's toading that almost
immediately gathered 52 signatures (but has failed so far to reach
ballot status.)  Yet few were unaware of the ease with which the
toad proscription could be circumvented - all the toadee had to do
(all the ur-Bungle at NYU presumably had done) was to go to the
minor hassle of acquiring a new Internet account, and LambdaMOO's
character registration program would then simply treat the known
felon as an entirely new and innocent person.  Nor was this ease
generally understood to represent a failure of toading's social
disciplinary function.  On the contrary, it only underlined the
truism (repeated many times throughout the debate over Mr. Bungle's
fate) that his punishment, ultimately, had been no more or less
symbolic than his crime.

What *was* surprising, however, was that Mr. Bungle/Dr. Jest 
seemed to have taken the symbolism to heart.  Dark themes still
obsessed him - the objects he created gave off wafts of Nazi
imagery and medical torture - but he no longer radiated the
aggressive antisocial vibes he had before.  He was a lot less
unpleasant to look at (the outrageously seedy clown description
had been replaced by that of a mildly creepy but actually rather
natty young man, with "blue eyes...suggestive of conspiracy,
untamed eroticism and perhaps a sense of understanding of the
future"), and aside from the occasional jar-stuffing incident,
he was also a lot less dangerous to be around.  It was obvious
he'd undergone some sort of personal transformation in the day's
since I'd first glimpsed him back in evangeline's crowded room -
nothing radical maybe, but powerful nonetheless, and resonant
enough with my own experience, I felt, that it might be more
than professional interesting to talk with him, and perhaps
compare notes.

For I too was undergoing a transformation in the aftermath of 
that night in evangeline's, and I'm still not entirely sure what
to make of it.  As I pursued my runaway fascination with the
discussion I had heard there, as I pored over the "social" debate
and got to know legba and some of the other victims and witnesses,
I could feel my newbie consiousness falling away from me.  Where
before I'd found it hard to take virtual rape seriously, I now was
finding it difficult to remember how I could ever *not* have taken
it seriously.  I was proud to have arrived at this perspective -
it felt like an exotic sort of achievement, and it definitely 
made my ongoing experience of the MOO a richer one.

But it was also having some unsettling effects on the way I looked
at the rest of the world.  Sometimes, for instance, it was hard
for me to understand why RL society classifies RL rape alongside
crimes against person or property.  Since rape can occur without
any physical pain or damage, I found myself reasoning, then it 
must be classed as a crime against the mind - more intimately and
deeply hurtful, to be sure, than cross burnings, wolf whistles, 
and virtual rape, but undeniably located on the same conceptual 
continuum.  I did not, however, conclude as a result that rapists
were protected in any fashion by the First Amendment.  Quite the
opposite, in fact:  the more seriously I took the notion of virtual
rape, the less seriously I was able to take the notion of freedom
of speech, with its tidy division of the world into the symbolic 
and the real.

Let me assure you, though, that I am not preseting these thoughts 
as arguments.  I offer them, rather, as a picture of the sort of
mind-set that deep immersion in a virtual world has inspired in me.
I offer them also, therefore, as a kind of prophecy.  For whatever
else these thoughts tell me, I have come to believe that they
announce the final stages of our decades-long passage into the
Information Age, a paradigm shift that the classic liberal firewall
between word and deed (itself a product of an earlier paradigm
shift commonly known as the Englightenment) is not likely to 
survive intact.  After all, anyone the least bit familiar with
the workings of the new era's definitive technology, the computer, 
knows that it operates on a principle impracticably difficult to
distinguish from the pre-Enlightenment principle of the magic word:
the commands you type into a computer are a kind of speech that
doesn't so much communicate as *make things happen*, directly and
ineluctably, the same way pulling a trigger does.  They are
incantations, in other words, and anyone at all attuned to the
technosocial megatrends of the moment - from the growing dependence
of economies on the global flow of intensely festishized words and
numbers to the burgeoning ability of bioengineers to speak the
spells written in the four-letter text of DNA - knows that the
logic of the incantation is rapidly permeating the fabric of our
lives.

And it's precisely this logic that provides the real magic in a
place like LambdaMOO - not the fictive trappings of voodoo and
shapeshifting and wizardry, but the conflation of speech and act 
that's inevitable in any computer-mediated world, be it Lambda or
the increasingly wired world at large.  This is dangerous magic, to
be sure, a potential threat - if misconstrued or misapplied - to our
always precarious freedoms of expression, and as someone who lives
by his words I do not take the threat lightly.  And yet, on the other 
hand, I can no longer convince myself that our wishful insulation
of language from the realm of action has ever been anything but a
valuable kludge, a philosophically damaged stopgap against oppression
that would just have to do till something truer and more elegant came
along.

Am I wrong to think this truer, more elegant thing can be found on
LambdaMOO?  Perhaps, but I continue to seek it there, sensing its
presence just beneath the surface of every interaction.  I have even
thought, as I said, that discussing with Dr. Jest our shared experience
of the workings of the MOO might help me in my search.  But when that 
notion first occurred to me, I still felt somewhat intimidated by
his lingering criminal aura, and I hemmed and hawed a good long time
before finally resolving to drop him a MOO-mail requesting an interview.
By then it was too late.  For reasons known only to himself, Dr. Jest
had stopped logging in.  Maybe he'd grown bored with the MOO.  Maybe
the loneliness of ostracism had gotten to him.  Maybe a psycho whim
had carried him far away or maybe he'd quietly acquired a third
character and started life over with a cleaner slate.

Wherever he'd gone, though, he left behind the room he'd created for
himself - a treehouse "tastefully decorated" with rare-book shelves,
an operating table, and a life-size William S. Burroughs doll - and
he left it unlocked.  So I took to checking in there occasionally,
and I still do from time to time.  I head out of my own cozy nook
(inside a TV set inside the little red hotel inside the Monopoly
board inside the dining room of LambdaMOO), and I teleport on over
to the treehouse, where the room description always tells me Dr.
Jest is present but asleep, in the conventional depiction for
disconnected characters.  The non-quite-emptiness of the abandoned
room invariable instills in me an uncomfortable mix of melancholy
and the creeps, and I stick around only on the off chance that
Dr. Jest will wake up, say hello, and share his understanding of
the future with me.

He won't, of course, but this is no great loss.  Increasingly, the
complex magic of the MOO interests me more as a way to live the
present than to understand the future.  And it's usually not long
before I leave Dr. Jest's lonely treehouse and head back to the
mansion, to see some friends.

THE END.
 

                Thank you, Phyllis.
    

    

    Thanks, Phyllis.  Very interesting stuff; enlightening.
    
    So how do I get in?  I'd love to experience it.
    
    Bud

    what a long strange trip that was; and after 5+ years noting in dozens
    of cyberspace conferences here at DEC, less well structured, less
    richly implemented, but no less emotionally imbued, I read with an
    eerie sense of familiarity the concept of a VR rape committed by an
    immature sociopath.  Oh, brother, do I know noters like that!  Thanks.
    
    Um, I'll be posting a few pointers to this in some other files, hope
    nobody minds.  I'll ask people to respect ::Grateful on their visits.
    
    DougO

       They both sat on the pavement and watched with a certain unease as
    huge children bounced heavily along the sand and wild horses thundered
    through the sky taking fresh supplies of reinforced railings to the
    Uncertain Areas.
    
    from The Hitchhicker's Guide To The Galaxy, by Douglas Adams.
    
    This is from one of the "scenes" that appeared to two *highly* improbably
    lucky beings as they were rescued after the earth was disintegrated in
    order to make room for an intergalactic highway.         
    
    
    Andy_who'd_love_to_try_one_of_those_Pan_Galactic_Gargle_Blasters_:^)

I'm almost finished with "On the Road" by Jack Kerouac ... this is the second
book of his I've read and I'm hooked.  

    
    Great writer  - i love to read him.  actually, give me almost any long
    suffering miserable drug dependent/alcoholic poet or author. They say
    that Kerouac wrote so complusivly that he bought rolls of teletype
    paper for use in his typewriter (you've heard of typewriters?).  His
    life is quite an interesting read in itself.
    
    DC - now that you're hooked on Kerouac, may I suggest Rimbaud.  This 
    writer/poet is mentioned in a Dylan tune (off Street Legal, I
    think)along with Beaudelaire and is thought to be a major influence on 
    Mr. Z. 
    
Carol
    

Rimbaud, check.

My copy of "On The Road" has an introduction which among other things
mentions Kerouac's gonzo typewriting ... and that he'd hunch over that
machine for hours without eating or sleeping, sweat pouring off him ...
manic.

Seems to me that Hunter S. Thompson adopted Kerouac's writing style to
some extent ... especially when Moriarty is going off on one of his rants,
it feels like HST to me.

- dc

    A couple of weeks ago we went to a play at the Merrimack Rep (I think
    that's what they're called; they are in Lowell) called Maggie's Riff.
    As you can probably guess, it is about Kerouac's life. I thought it was
    pretty good although a couple of critics panned it. I suspect it has to
    do with the oberser's mental image of Kerouac vs. the actor's
    interpretation.
    
    I didn't realise he was from Lowell until a couple of months ago, when
    we visited the craft guild place in the Lowell Historical Park. One of
    the artists was displaying a number of paintings related to Kerouac,
    including some book covers and I eventually figured out the connection.
    
    The book store in the information center has a good selection of books
    by or about Kerouac. I picked up "Doctor Sax" and have just started it.
    
    gary

The last book of his I read (my first) was the Dharma Bums.  Good stuff.
I think for my next job, I'll live in a cabin up on a mountain and watch out
for fires.  :^)

- dc

The latest issue of the Fantasy & Science Fiction mag has a story called
"Black Bus," inspired, acc. to the author, by the Grateful Dead.  I'm
only about half way thru it ... so far it has been like an account of
a guy driving 'heads to and then attending a Dead show, if the guy was having
a bad acid trip.  I'll bring it with me to the camping, um, sojourn.

- dc

Who's the author, Dave?  I know of a few SF authors that have payed some 
tribute to the Dead.  Stephen Burst (more fantasy than SF) has one
book called Brokedown Palace (set in Fennario, I believe).  Alan Steele
(I think that's the right name) had a book which had a Deadhead character
in it, Virgin Bruce.  I can remember the character, and a good deal of the
plot and some other interesting stuff, but the book's name is escaping me
at the moment.  Sigh....


PeterT

Marc Laidlaw ... in the story he doesn't explicitly refer to the Dead or
deadheads ... here's the intro:

   "... He says he wrote 'The Black Bus' late at night, after his daughter went
to sleep.
   It certainly is a late night story, one that should be read with all the
lights on.  About the work itself, Marc writes, 'I used to ride a bus like the
Black Bus frequently.  Social microcosms, of which such buses are prime
examples, naturally suggest stories.  My 'Group' and its pilgrims were obviously
inspired by the Grateful Dead and its cult [ha! - dc ed], but those who suspect
that I'm even remotely a Dead-Head should take note of the fate I assign to my
poor band.'"

:^)

- dc

A History of God - Man's 4000 Year Quest  by Karen Armstrong


A historical review of perspectives on mono-theisim in Judiasm, Christianity
and Islam by one of the more respected authors on comparitive religions.
Not recommended for those looking for a little light reading.

Jim

    ouch -- think I'll avoid that one!!  %^)
    
    rfb

"The Jewish Book of Why" -- a farily objective explanation of all the odd
things Jews do.  Some of the answers surprise me.  It gives kind of a mixed
presentation and it's somewhat difficult to interpret their perspective to
determine which actions are more orthodox, which are more modern (US Reform),
and which are just plain silly :-)

I'm also keeping up with my Spy tactics and SDI technology with Clancy's
"Cardinal of the Kremlin."  

- jeff_converting_in_June_:-)

    a question of curiosity jeff, and for all Clancy fans, which one is
    your fave?
    
    chris_Sum_of_all_Fears_fan

Which one do I like BEST?!  Tough question!!!  I like them all.  I thought
Patriot Games was a bit slow between pages 50 and 150, but Red Storm Rising
was excellent from page 1 to page 900+ (albeit hard to keep up with all the
action, names, and places!).  I just got finished with my second sail on the
Kranzky Okytabr and re-realized how great a book it is.  

Here are some nutshell descriptions, in order of publication:

Red October:  New Soviet ballistic missle sub has a silent (nearly undectable)
drive system and the famous captain and senior officers plan to defect to the
US using this multi-billion dollar war toy.  Lots of sub shop talk, lots of
CIA shop talk, lots of nuclear-sub action.  Can't put it down.

Red Storm Rising:  THIS IS A BIG BOOK, but you'll never notice it.  I read
this entire book in two days -- I couldn't stop to eat!  :-)  Clancy kept me
going from start to finish in this somewhat believable story of World War
Three.  How the war starts is a little far fetched to me (especially after
reading his other books that discuss the 'soviet mindset'), but the rest of
the war-tactics and strategies are very well thought through: totally
believable and somewhat troubling.

Patriot Games:  Terrorism in the UK comes to the US when American hero Jack
Ryan (of Red October fame) saves the Royal Family at the expense of a few
Ulster Liberation Front terrorists.  Terrorists seek revenge on Ryan's family
in the US.  This one will keep you up at night worrying about your children.

Cardinal of the Kremlin:  CIA's most highly placed Soviet spy gets popped
trying to give the US secrets of a new high-tech SDI laser system capable of
melting sattelites.  Lots of _detailed_ spy shop talk.  Sub plot of Soviet war
in Afghanistan -- interesting.

Clear and Present Danger:  War on Drugs.  CIA special operations goes after
cocaine kingpins in Central America using laser guided bombs, fancy decoding
of cellular phones, etc.  Lots of character development.  Good Action.  Good
story.

Sum of All Fears:  VERY SCARY story of middle-east terrorists and
former-soviet-block-eastern-european scientists building thermonuclear bombs.
Worrisome realism.  Probably the first time you'll actually feel GLAD that the
CIA exists...  and also the first time you'll pray that it's doing its job at
keeping tabs on all the nuclear devices in the former Soviet block!!!!!

Withought Remorse:  Super-Soldier Navy Seal John Clark tries to rescue MIA's
from Viet Nam several years after the war ends.  Also fights some of the War
on Drugs in the D.C. streets, taking out drug pushers/dealers and protecting
the women they abuse.   Best character-development story about soldiers that
Clancy's written, IMO.


The Jack Ryan saga is a little hard to follow.  There is a time-line to
Clancy's books that does not follow the order that they were released.  I
think the proper story goes like:
    Withought Remorse
    Patriot Games 
    Red October
    Cardinal of the Kremlin 
    Clear and Present Danger
    The Sum of All Fears 

Red Storm Rising is not part of the Jack Ryan story as I recall.


- jeff

  I Liked all of them but my fave is Red Storm Rising.
 

 Shawn

    
    The Hobbit (to my 6 1/2 year old daughter)
    
    Toby_a_Tolkien_head

"Collected Stories" by Paul Bowles (he penned 'The Sun Also Rises' as well 
as some other books, stories and musical scores).

Highly recommended thus far!

jeff

A pox on my literary mind. Bowles wrote "The Sheltering Sky", not "The Sun Also Rises". 
The "Collected Stories" book is still excellent

jeff

I was kind of wondering about "The Sun Also Rises", but I figured it must
have been a "Sun also Rises" that I was unfamiliar with.  Nothing
plagaristic about re-using a title.  

PeterT

Recently finished "The Day After Tomorrow" by Allan Folsom.  This is one of 
those "can't put down" page-turners.  There was a Sunday Globe article about
this book recently, about the selling of a best seller.  Which is the main 
reason I recognized it in the library shortly afterward.  I picked it up
mainly for my wife (who is in the thousands of words per minute reading 
category) and when she finished it in a day or two, she recommended it
to me.  So I gave it a shot, and oh boy, she was right.  The first line of the
book (that isn't really a spoiler is it? ;-) goes something like:
"Paul Osborne looked up from his coffee and saw the man who had murdered
his father."
And things just cascade from there.  Highly recommended.  And this is his
FIRST novel (though the bio blurb on the back mentions that he is a 
scriptwriter.  Don't be surprised to see this in the movies in the next
few years, though there's enough in it to make a miniseries more closely
depict the book)

Now that I've got that one past me, I'm back on the SF bandwagon with
"Rama Revealed" by Arthur Clarke and Gentry Lee.  Quite enjoyable and
comparable to "The Garden of Rama" and "Rama II" (if that's the right
title of the sequel to "Rendevous with Rama".)  I find that Clarke's
collabaration with Lee are, for me, more enjoyable than his solo 
works.  Clarke tends to hard SF full of wonder and strangeness, but the
characters are largely forgettable.  Lee seems to add a wholeness to 
the human side of things so that the characters become three dimensional
people that we care about.  I love straight SF, but add in some good
characters and it makes all the difference.  Should be finished with
this one by next week or so (with all my copious free time to actually 
read things ;-).

And since these last two are library books, I'm still in the middle of 
Stephen Donaldson's Gap book which MIGHT be "The Gap into Knowledge: A
Dark and Hungry God arises"  That might be the title of the third book
though ;-)  I'm on the 2nd book.  Interesting, but the characters are
flawed (as most of Donaldson's characters are) and not all that likable.
It's well written, as most of his stuff seems to be, but there are some
really ugly things going on here and I'm not too sure how I feel about 
it.  Which in and of itself speaks of the skill of the writer (or the
simplistic willing suspension of disbelief on the part of the reader ;-)
Oh well, not sure I can recommend this particular book yet, but I 
can recommend the author!  I've enjoyed everything else by him, and it's
really only the subject matter of this particular story that has caused
me to pause on this one.

PeterT
   

    
    I'm TRYING to read "The Iron Heel" by Jack London.  It's got this
    major time slip in it that's hard to keep track of.  Anyone else ever
    try this one?
    
    carol

    I'm almost finished with "A Man On The Moon" by Andrew Chaikin.  This
    is a well-written and researched book on the Apollo missions.  I
    thought I'd ahve a hard time getting through its 600+ pages, but I find
    I can barely put it down.  Chaikin doesn't get bogged down in the
    technical details or let the huge cast overwhelm the book.  The only
    defect I've found is that he failed to include a diagram of the Apollo
    spacecraft and Saturn V rocket, but any encyclopedia makes up for this
    omission.  I highly recommend this book to anyone who's interested in
    the space program.
    
    "We came in peace for all mankind."  And to beat the pants off the
    Russkies.  :-)
    
    Jamie

	Hey, a topic I haven't seen yet....


	I'm reading "The Celestine Prophesy" right now.  Definitely eerie.  
	It's about a manuscript that was written in 600 BC which speaks about
	the 9 insights that human beings will have toward the end of the 20th 
	century which will propell our society into a different plane of
	spirituality by the 21st century.  It talks about how the government
	and the church is attempting to suppress the manuscript because it
	threatens their existence (if it comes to pass it means that government
	and the church will have to look at things different).

	I've only gotten through the first couple chapters and so far it's
	scaring the crap out of me because it's completely and totally 
	accurate about what's going on in my life right now.  

	Most bizarre......

	
	kath

    written by whom?
    

kath - I can totally relate about the Celestine Prohpesy!!!
Got turned onto it during the summer by someone I met camping.
Had a brief LDR (long distance relationship) with this person but things
weren't working out, so time to move on... 
Since the Boston Garden Dead shows I've been living a sorta "Deadhead's
version" of the prophesies.. meeting people.. tape tradin'... havin' fun
for a change!!!

Yes, the book is pretty good.  The prophesies seem prety well grounded in
real observations and experience, until about the last 2 which seem to
get a bit flakey IMO.  The best part of the book was all the stuff about
control dramas.  There was an article in the "Living" section of the
Boston Globe about 3 weeks ago that was all about "what kind of parenting
style are you?" that was _very_similar_ to the control drama ideas.
Nearly identical, in fact.

Josh

    I've been reading that book too!  And turning all of my friends onto
    it!  :-)  :-)  
    
    I can't remember the author's name, but if you go into any bookstore it'll 
    probably be on display.  One of the bestsellers.

    It's written as fiction, by James Redfield.
        
    From the back of the book:
    
            An ancient manuscript has been found in Peru.  Its contents:
            9 insights the human race is predicted to grasp as we enter
            an era of true spiritual awareness.
    
            In this gripping adventure-tale, James Redfield offers a
            compelling vision of the new spiritual understanding that
            is emerging in human culture.  You will instantly recognize
            the truth of the First Insight: in each of our lives occur
            mysterious coincidences -- sudden, unexplained events that,
            once interpreted correctly, serve to guide and direct our
            actions.
    
            Join the adventure and let this synchronistic perception
            guide you through a daring search for the remaining insights.
            Each will be found in turn, and each will clarify how a
            growing link with the spiritual is relentlessly transforming
            human life.
    
            Reading like a story of high adventure, but having the in-depth
            effect of a spiritual parable, The Celestine Prophecy will take
            you on a journey that will lighten your soul, and connect you
            with a vision and an experience that is already changing the
            world.
    
    ISBN 0-944 353-00-2
    Retail Price: $13.95 [available through Waldenbooks]

    "VMS Programming Volume 6  -- Device Support Manual"
    No plot bur WONDERful character development...
    
    For grins, Steven Hawking's "Black Holes and Baby Universes"
    and a book on the early railroads of Colorado.
    
    ...mikey "Black Hole"Head
    
    

    Wow...MikeDhead...you read "A Brief History of Time"???  Thats one of
    my all time favorite "Make Science Make Sense" books...tis truely
    grate!!!
    
    Dugo

    Yep. It makes "History" sense out of an inherently incomprehensible
    field: cosmology and particle physics. Those two fields (the LONG and
    the SHORT of it, literally!) turn out to be much more intimatey related
    that us pore ole laypersons might think.
    
    Another (only slightly) more detailed book on the same subject is Roger
    Penrose's "The Emporer's New Mind" but **WARNING** even though it is
    only slightly more detailed than Hawking's, it gets incomprehensible
    REAL FAST!
    
    ...Michael T. "B.S._in_math_makes_me_kinda_qualified_to_-
    judge_incomprehensibility"Head 

i've been reading a lot of John Grisham lately.  The Client and Pelican
Brief so far, both excellent novels.  keeps you reading past bed time
during the suspensful parts.  right now, i'm working on A Time to Kill,
which is Grisham's first.  so far, it is pretty good, although a bit
more time is spent detailing things that don't need a lotta detail.  ah,
that'll help prolong the book and save me from having to figure out
what i wanna read next.

i was never much into reading novels.  i always read junk, like newspapers,
magazines, notesfiles :-), etc...  definitely different and when ya get
sucked in, i don't want anyone buggin' me!!

    What am I reading?
    Well...
    
    Right now on my desk are the following titles:
    
    Abraham Lincoln: The War Years (C. Sandberg) vol 2/4: I read The
    	Prairie Years last year.
    
    Stock Cars of the Denver and Rio Grande Railroad (just bought this one)
    
    The Physics of Immortality: A physicist who has studied quantum
    cosmology, theoretical computer science, and theoretical computer
    science says he has proof that God exists. I personally do not have the
    physics to refute or affirm what he says but it is intriguing... This
    may be a VERY important book...We will be resurrected and live forever.
    Only problem is it is in relativistic time and not necessarily in
    proper time...
    
    Lincoln and the Railroads: A history of ole Abe's career with and about
    the early RR's in Illinois.
    
    The Journals of John C. Fremont's Western explorations 1838-1845:
    Fremont is by his own admission as big an *ss as we always suspected.
    
    The Deaths of the Bravos: A very irreverent look at frontier history
    from about 1820 when the frontier was in Missouri and Arkansas to about
    1870 when the frontier was in Montana and Nevada. One of the better
    books on the subject I've read (and I've read a few)
    
    These are the active ones. I've probably bought 300 books in used-book
    stores over the last five months.
    
    ...michael t. BookWormHead

    He didn't really study theoretical computer science twice. The other
    one was advanced quantum theory.
    
    I studied theoretical computer science twice. Never DID get the hang of
    it...
    
    ...michael t. bonerhead
    
    

    A very provocative book for all you WWWeb-heads out there is Cliff
    Stoll's "Silicon Snake Oil", published last month.
    
    Cliff is of course the author of "The Cuckoo's Egg" and a frequent
    denizen of the WELL. So he has good credentials to offer a very
    critical second opinion of the entire concept of the Information
    Superhighway and of online America in general.
    
    His main argument is that virtual reality just ain't no substitute for
    real reality, and that perhaps it is a good thing to take a hike, or
    ride a bike, or read a book, or make real love, or bake bread instead
    of playing one more computer game or reading one more USENET posting.
    
    michael t. BookHead

    I'm all fer that!!
    
    rfb_who believes 'puters spell the end of freedom and who just bought a
    PC

He was on NPR last week talking about this.  Many valuable comments.
Agonized over the loss of the card catalog in one library he frequented.
Someone else (I believe quoted in the book) said that people were just
being sentimental over the old card catalogs, and he said, of course
I'm being sentimental!  He described this huge reading room with a 
vaulted ceiling and quotes from Milton that housed all these old oak
cabinets, and walking in one day to find all the cabinets gone, replaced
with several glass-eyed terminals.  And what good is it to go looking
through the web to find that such and such a book is indeed in the 
Library of Congress.  The search ends there.  You can't check it out,
or read it over the net.  Big freaking deal!  ;-)
Cliff's a pretty cool guy, and a deadhead to boot!

PeterT

    He also (both in the interview and in the book) made the point that
    just browsing through a card catalog is a supremely valuable research
    tool, which can't be duplicated online. Just seeing the cards in the
    surrounding area can give much info about related research.
    
    ...mike who likes to read (and who has been ransacking the used
    bookstores of New England)

re:  Cliff Stoll

I heard the NPR interview - 

I sort of agree and disagree with the man - For instance I went down to the
ZK library and was looking for performance information for certain type 
devices/software - well I fired up the little pc (with some good help from 
the folks in charge) and with a few keywords I cross-referenced every book
and paper in Digital Equip. Corp. libraries.  I then ordered the papers/books 
from a library in SHR and elsewhere.  BTW,I used the same machine to do the
ordering...Sure the book wasn't in ZK (ie, Library of Congress) but I was
able to obtain it w/ this system.

Then I used the PC to do the same thing for practically every mag/rag published
on the same subject and had it send me those magazine articles on line.

So I think a computer is MADE for indexing and cataloging - I thought the bit
about the Library of Congress and not being able to get the book was a bit,
well, shortsighted.  I think it is valuable info to know that you can search 
and scour and FIND a book because it exists (whereas with the old oak cabinets
he'd never have known there was one with that title/subj matter out there).

Now when it comes to reading the books and magazine articles etc etc I always
prefer a good old fashioned paper book.  I could never stand to read anything
longer than a page on a computer (still with me :)

So,  Ken called UNIX snakeoil and Cliff just applied it to the next_big_thing.
It's got a looong way to go but it's handy for certain things.

I should read the book too!
bob

    re: I should read the book too!
        bob
    
    Yeah, but not online! (yet!) 8*)
    
    ...mike
    
    All kidding aside, one of the joys of my life is going to a library in
    a strange city and reading the card catalog. ALso meeting the
    librarians, who are always glad to talk about their work and their
    collections. 
    
    As my sainted mother said (she was a schoolteacher, not a librarian)
    When you mobe into a new town, always make freinds with the butcher and
    the librarian".
    
    ...michael t. bookwormHead
    

    
    
    	RE: Marian, madame librarian...
    
    	My wife is one of Digital's Librarians..He first job was working
    for Marian..........
    

    My Dad's birthday is in May, two days after mine. 
    
    He will turn 76.
    
    We plan to hire a high school marching band to march in full uniform
    down the street playing "76 Trombones".
    
    Fortunately he will have almost a year before he gets a chance to
    retaliate...
    
    ...michael t. "Once played Prof. Harold Hill in a Little Theater
    production"Head

    along the lines of card catologs on line i have to agree with Mr
    Hapgood...when doing research papers in college, the system in the
    Diamond Library made it alot easier.. nice neat printout of every
    periodical, piece of microfilm, gov't document etc that existed for
    the topic and what was avialable there....
    AND they still had that set of wooden things with all those drawers
    that had the 3x5 cards  in them with the names of authors and books
     

geez Chris, you are young. When I was at UNH my first computer class user 
the card punch. The Dimond Library hard the hard copy of the Reader's Guide 
to Periodic Literature, but no on line listings.

getting grey

    that's nothin, when *I* was a kid, the cards in the card catalog were 
    made of stone! and so were the books! and we listened to the BC-52's
    and the Grateful Stones
                       can you say Flintstones?? 
    
    rfb

>    that's nothin, when *I* was a kid

and did you have to walk to school, in the snow, up hill, both ways ???!!!

;^)

    we often did what we called "pogied" behind the school bus when I lived
    in colder climates(upstate NY)...where we grabbed the rear bumper of the 
    bus and let it drag us by our boot soles at 30 MPH, taxis too, until an
    aquaintance let go, slid into a mailbox and busted his collarbone. Now
    when I lived in Georgia, we had to fight off the KKK on our way to
    school...and in Arizona we had to fight rattlesnakes off, uphill,
    both ways, in 115 degree heat!!! Not to mention Javilina and desert vampire 
    bats!! The rednecks were the worst in AZ though, why I remember the
    time......

    ..with a block of ice tied to my back
    our father would beat us to sleep cause we had no food..then we'd have
    to get up dredge the lake in our backyard with our hands and find our
    way back into the shoebox we called home..
    yeah
    yeah 
    yeah
    shoot me when i start sounding like you whining geezers
    :^)

    rfb
    here in nude hampster we call that the fine art of "Bumper Jumping"
    any other colloquialisms surrounding that one...??

    It's really nice to hear such positive comments about libraries in 
    general and about Digital libraries also!  I'm a librarian at ZKO
    and we just completed a user survey which gave us a lot of useful info.
    Any of you out there who havcomments to make about the library services
    in Digital please let us know!  If you're in ZKO send to ZEKE::LIBRARY
    and you will be heard.
    
    carol

    re:Any of you out there who havcomments to make about the library services
        in Digital please let us know!
    
    yeah... why'd you have to remove the MK1 library mere weeks before I
    started here?
    
    ...mike the library collector (who missed a golden opportunity to
    REALLY collect one here!)

    ...and by the way when I was young we didn't even have STONES! We had
    to make our letters out of clay 'cause the ground hadn't hardened yet,.
    

	hoho. you had CLAY!!?? what luxury. *we* had only primordial soup
	try making letters with that!

    geez, I dunno... in New Mexico we didn't HAVE snow.
    
    ...and the buckboards didn't have bumpers either...
    
    ...michael t. gafferHead
    

we used to call hanging on the bumper skitchin'

    BTW, we really did have buckboards in New Mexico when I was growing up.
    You see, I was on the border of the Navajo Reservation, which had AWFUL
    roads (but at least they were sand and not rock, like in Arizona!) and
    horse-drawn buckboards (with car axles, wheels, and tires) were the
    norm on the reservation. My granddad did a lot of sheep-ranching and
    sheep buying on the Rez, and he had one of these rigs.
    
    Then, after WWII, he sold the horse and bought a surplus Ar,y Jeep,
    complete with bullet holes. (but he kept the buckboard).
    
    ...michael t. "Learned to drive at age nine in an old Army Jeep"Head 

                        and that stands for "Computer"
    
    The joy of library card files was not they were good for finding the
    things you were looking for (even computers can do that), rather that
    they were good for finding things you weren't looking for. It will be a
    while before we have search agents with the ability to respond to a
    query on, say, "video servers on NT" with "well, I couldn't find
    anything that matched, but I did find a new book by Shulgin on
    structure-activity relationships that you might like".
    
    I often used to stop at the State Library of Victoria on my way bak
    from school to do homework. The main reading room was an octagon about
    4 stories tall topped by a huge dome. It was probably 150 meters or so
    in diameter, with a raised dais (sp?) in the center where the Supreme
    Librarian sat. His/her job was to glare at anyone who made the
    slightest noise. Main bookshelves about 20 feet tall, with ladders on
    rails. Open stacks visible on the floors above. Felt topped tables and
    study desks with now-trendy banker type desk lamps. Grey coated minions
    with trolleys of books. If it had ducts, it would look right at home in
    "Brazil".
    
    I always used to end up near the section with the books on rockets and
    explosives (629.* "Useful Arts").
    
    I do like having reference manuals etc in online form rather than
    printed, but I have yet to find a browser worthy of the name.
    
    gary (who once learned to play "Minuet in G" on the euphonium)

    The main reading room at the University of New Mexico was a two-story
    adobe-style room, with vigas (beams) and latillas (little beams,
    crossways) on the ceiling. Somehow reading Adolph Bandelier or Paul
    Horgan or Oliver LaFarge just felt RIGHT there. 
    
    ...michael t. "reads a book a day"Head

    
        Re: .401
    
           Cool idea Gary! I think that's a must for future online browsers,
           "I could'nt find what you were looking for, but you might
           like..."
    
          Not only have libraries done away with card catalogs, at most
          Digital libraries they've done away with browsing collections.
          You can look at some reference books on the shelves but only
          can browse circulating collections online.  The thing that got
          me into library science in the first place was the 'look &
          feel of books' and finding great things by exploring the shelves,
          smelling the books, reading excerpts, and looking at the
          pictures (well ONE of the things, I liked helping people
          find stuff too and online systems do a good job of making
          that easier).
    
    
          Cathy_a_nonpracticing_librarian_currently_a_software_
          product_manager&pleasure_seeker(not in that order)
    
                            

re         <<< Note 117.399 by SSGV02::TPNSTN::strobel "Jeff Strobel" >>>

>we used to call hanging on the bumper skitchin'



yup, this is what we cawl it too.
did a lot of this in college...

    was in an apartment this past saturday where there was a copy of
    "Skeleton Key: the Dictionary for Deadheads" sitting on the
    table..started to glance thru it and cracked up..anyone have a copy
    or been able to look thru one?
    good explanation as to why the highway signs to Lake Placid NY where
    mysteriously missing all the "P's" and "L's" when the boys played there
    last........
    and it gives a good account as to the origin of the 4:20 symbol...
    cracked me up seeing the numbers :20 following every number 4 that was
    plastered about the parking garages of Beantown when the boys were
    there last fall..  :^)
                                                          

I have a copy - got it last Christmas. Somewhat interesting, somewhat 
amusing and a bit lame in some areas

jeff

>    was in an apartment this past saturday where there was a copy of
>    "Skeleton Key: the Dictionary for Deadheads" sitting on the
>    table..

i hear DEChead is in there?

- rich

    didn't see that but i did see NETHead

    yeah i have that book - some pretty neat stuff in there.
    
    you're right rich - DECHead is on of the entries.

    I like it! I still have Tom Lawlors copy but will get one for myself
    soon. Enjoyable and for a change, has some info that makes ya go
    "wellwaddayaknow?" Much more informative than say the latest Jerry
    biography. 
    
    The Deadmans Gulch signs east of Flagstaff all had stealies plastered
    on them after  the Desert Sky shows...i though that should a  been in
    Skeleton Key...%^)
    
    refreash my memory..what doeds 4:20 mean again.??
    rfb

    California Penal Code RSA 4:20
    "Possession of a controlled substance i.e. marijuana"
    problee an equivalent ofa  misdemeanah offense
     i was always under the impression that it was the 4:20 hooter
    after a loooong day
    turns out that was definition numbah 2 :^)
    good bumper sticker
    "It's 4:20, YOU know where your kids are?"
    :^)
                              

re  <<< Note 117.411 by CSLALL::LEBLANC_C "Please don't dominate the rapJACK" >>>
                                   -< 4:@)! >-

>    "It's 4:20, YOU know where your kids are?"
 >   :^)
  
there are places you can cawl to order up some 'custom'
bumpah stickahs... never did it thoughj.  anyone in
here ever do it? what did phyllis use for here
"Nothin' ..." stickahs?                            

	I'm reading Wavy Gravy's book "Something Good for a Change"...
	one of the chapter is titled "Abbie Hoffman without Tears" and
	starts out:

	"The Blue Plate is the unlikely name of this straight-looking
	all-American tavern on the outskirts of Worcester, Mass., run
	by a giant with the equally unlikely name of Tiny."

	now, this name really rings a bell for me - did/does Slipknot
	play at the Blue Plate?  Did they have a benefit show for Tiny
	once?

	The next paragraph goes on to say:

	"Tiny is also the driver and bodyguard for His Holiness the 
	Dalai Lama."

	Cool.

	Debess

	ps - this book is full of make-you-feel-good vibes - I recommend
	it!

re:     <<< Note 117.413 by STAR::ECOMAN::DEBESS "I'll get up and Fly away" >>>

>	now, this name really rings a bell for me - did/does Slipknot
>	play at the Blue Plate?  Did they have a benefit show for Tiny
>	once?

    Yes, Slipknot used to play there.  I remember seeing em play there
    before joining DEC (8 years yesterday!), and got there many times
    in college seeing Southpaw.   Wavy Gravy did some things there, as
    did Country Joe.

    Sounds like a good book!

    /Ken

    unfortunately, since Tiny passed away (diabetes finally took him down)
    the Blue Plate (actually in Holden on 122A) doesn't have live music
    there anymore...  Slipknot is only one of many great acts that
    performed there...  Tiny used to bring in Peter Rowan on occasion...
    i think New Riders played there once...  i know i played there a few
    times (ok, so not every apple in the barrel is shiny and new! :^)...
    Wavy Gravy has done shows there more than once...
    
    slipknot and many other area bands have played sevveral benefits for
    Tiny...  my favorite was "a Tiny little Christmas party"...  Tiny had
    been battling diabetes for years and as the propriator of the Plate he 
    made a living, but was certainly not wealthy...  his hospital bills
    started piling up as his toes were being removed... :^(
    
    a great friend to hippies, musicians, the Dalai Llama (drive AND
    wrestling partner, which if you knew Tiny, spoke volumes about
    the Llama's wrestling skills!)...  Tiny did a great deal for many years
    to foster the central mass music scene...  a true and original
    character...
    
    					da ve

    Tiny he wasn't..either in size or heart...a Grate guy, I met him once
    when I played there in 85? or so, and he made you feel like you knew
    him for years...and I was aware of all that he did for so many folks
    around Worcester...
    
    Wes

    I picked up Wavy Gravy's "Something Good For a Change" at a second hand
    book store in Cincinnati.  I finally got around to reading it a few
    weeks ago and it is inspiriring.  It really has me thinking
    about doing something else besides simply going to work every day and
    having fun in my spare time.  It seems Wavy has dedicated a large
    portion of his life to helping others and it just makes sense.  I think
    at one point in the book he wrote something along the lines of "Jesus
    and Buddha were right after all!" referring to the notion that we
    should center our lives around others and not ourselves.
    
    I ordered "Hog Farm" from the Marlboro Library, but God only knows when
    it will arrive.  Meanwhile...
    
    I've been busy with Kurt Vonnegut's "Breakfast of Champions," and I
    think it parallels Wavy.  Vonnegut likes to take jabs at capitalism and
    the tendency it has to make people think of only themselves.  Very
    true. 
    
    
    
    'Noky 

    Illusions, by Richard Bach.

Lee - The Last Years

The book starts with R.E. Lee evaluating the situation and deciding to 
surrender to Grant.  He rides home to Richmond not knowing what to expect.
He accepts the presidency of small Washington College and proceeds to 
be one of the most influential people in both Reconstruction and education.

    
    glossy, frivolous, glitzy journals with nothing of social redeeming
    value.  my usual fare when i am in school :-).  such titles as 
    Town & Country; House & Garden; Architectural Digest/Design .. etc
    
    in another week or so I'll start to get sick of them and begin wishing
    I could read other stuff instead. 
    
    

    Colin Powell's book tour/presidential campaign has been through the
    area, now it's time for a book tour that really means something to
    us babyboomers....:-).
    
    Captain Kangaroo will be at Barnes & Noble in Nashua on November 11
    between 2-4 pm to meet people, answer questions, and sign copies of his
    two books. No word on whether he is bringing Mr. Moose or Bunny Rabbit
    with him.

    how great is that!!  I love the Capt., I'm there!

    life is so sweet sometimes  :-)

    Tom

    oh btw, Mr. Greenjeans bought the farm some time ago, isn't that
    correct?

    Tom

    Mr Greenjeans bought a farm?
    oh...*THE* farm
    
    
    sorry

	I thought he *owned* the farm.
	maybe he sold it ???
	
	;-)
	

    yes, Mr. Greenjeans is giving organic gardening lessons to Jerry now...
    
    					da ve

    Mr. Greenjeans is now with Frank "Son of Mr. Greenjeans" Zappa...

Actually, it might be really cool to see the Captain
in person.  He has recently become an activist in the
protection of children's rights and safety, using his
public image to campaign against child abuse of all
kinds.  Ya gotta admire a man with a cause...

tim

    not too mention how cool it would be just to talk with such a pioneer
    in the world of childrens programming...  
    
    					da ve

    Does anyone know of a good secondhand bookstore?  Back home there
    were places to go where one could get a free cup of coffee, listen to a
    jazz trio, and browse the shelves for forgotten jewels.
    
    anything like that in Mass?
    
    'noky

    
    There's one on Newbury st., just down from Tower Records on Mass 
    Ave.  It's got new age, fantasy, spiritual books in the front
    and all kinds of used books in the back. It's my favorite book
    store.  
    
    They have a good magazine section too. Good capacino, coffee, and
    people watching also.
    
    Cath

    i know of a couple of places like that in Northampton...  and you might
    try the Tatnuck Bookseller in Worcester... sorry, can't give direx or
    addresses ad stuff...  they've moved since i was there lat (long time
    ago)
    
    				da ve

       <<< Note 117.431 by OBJRUS::SLOAN "Tell ME all that 'cha know" >>>
>      Just wanted to identify myself and let you know a little about what
>      I do for DmQ. I also would be happy to meet with you when you're
>      at ZKO if you want.
    

Hey Sloan,  is this in the right file??

:)

    
    thanks bob - geez 117.432 is right .. 117.431 the screw up cut
    and paste from something i put in yesterday has been deleted.
    
    Sloan

    re .430:
    
    a) Where is home? I really want to ransack as many bookstores as
    possible...
    
    b) Where are you? I can name about forty zillion bookstores in Mass.,
    NH, ane Me (not to mention NM, CO, UT, and CA!) so plz. be specific as
    to town.
    
    c) This Sun. Nov. 12 there is the "Evelyn Boorstin Book, Paper, and Ephemera
    Show" in Boston at the Convention Center Garage(!) Times 10:00 AM to
    4:00 PM. in conjunction with the ABAA (Antiquarian Boooksellers Ass'm
    of ASmerica) convention in the Conv. Ctr. itself. There are always lots
    of dealers there, but no jazz or free coffee. Don't bother to go to the
    Antiquarian Bookshow unless you are interested more in bindings than
    content.
    
    d) Most used book dealers have a pamphlet issued by an association
    called "MARIAB") which lists dozens of used and rare book dealers in
    MAss. and R.I. (hence the name). These are free for the taking.
    
    e) I have ransacked most of these dealers looking for books in my
    specialty (early Colorado and N.M. history, Mountain Men, and
    Railroads) and can tell you who has any stock left that I didn't buy.
    
    ...michael t. BookWormHead
    

    re .436:
    
    a) Home is Cleveland, OH (but the cool bookstores were in Cincinnati)  
       Funny how 'home' is always changing.
    
    b) I now live in Marlboro
    
    --
    
    Thanks Cath and da ve for the starting points!
    
    
    'noky

If you're living in Marlboro, definitely check out Tatnuck Books in Worcester.

I think they have a cafe area, but I can't vouch for music (wouldn't put
it past them)  I've been there in the last year or so, and kind of 
just chanced upon it, so check the paper or phonebook for direx.  And then
post them back up here ;-)

PeterT

    The Book Bear on Rt. 9 West of Worcester is a two-story house PACKED!!!
    with books. (actually in Warren I believe... going west it is about
    five-ten miles west of Worc. on the left (south) side of the road)
    
    There are 123,987,001 stores in Cambridge (most by Hahvahd Squahe, or
    the Kendall Sq. Subway stop) but for the life of me I can't remember
    names...
    
    I'll look at my MARIAB map and post more later.
    
    Also look in KOLFAX::BOOKS for more listings.
    
    ...mike
    

    There's a great used bookstore near Harvard Square called 
    Macintyre & Moore.  No java.  

    if the book bear is in Warren, it's a little farther than 5-10 miles
    out of worcester... :^)  on route 9 heading west you get to Liecester,
    Spencer, East Brookfield, Brookfield, West Brookfield and i think Ware
    before you start hoping for Warren...  from Worcester, Warren is a
    trip...
    
    					da ve

    Might have been one of the Brookfields then; it isn't that far out.
    It's unmistakeable... old white farm-type house, close to the main
    

    whence in KEnnebunkport go to the bookstore on the common there whose 
    name escapes me.  it's upstairs up a side stairway and has two floors
    including a loft of books which you reach by using a circular stair
    way.  the book saren't used though. A rilly cool thing about it
    is the comfy couch and the woodstove and the store_cat. and after you 
    are done there - go across the street to Alison's Restaurant.
    
    

	BTW..  Mike, if you would, refresh my memory...  
	Last evening, you were describing an intriguiing 
	book...  some cosmological work by some atheistic 
	physics dude.  Do you recall discussing it %^)

	--tom (having long-term problems with short-term memory)

    kennebunkport?  I thought Alice's Restaurant was in Massachusetts ;^)
    
    'noky

	tom,
	
	_The Physics Of Immortality_ (Mike cudn't remember the author)
	
>(having long-term problems with short-term memory)

	(that's why I wrote it down  ;-)

    not one of them there Carlos Castenada deals is it Jay? MTD?

    aktually, Alice's REstaurant isn't even in Massachusetts anymore...
    
    and if you REALLY want to get nitpicky about it, thre never really
    was an "Alice's Restaurant"...  i think the real name was "The Back
    Room Diner" or something like that...  Alice and Ray mvoed on to
    greener pastures some time ago and the restaurant closed...  some 
    folks had tried to keep the rest open under the name "Alice's
    Restaurant" but couldn't make a go of it...  
    
    Arlo has now bought the church Alice and Ray used to live in and uses
    it as his offices...  the rest is no more...  Officer Obie became 
    Chief Obie but the town fired him some years ago too and he is now
    retired...  he and Arlo patched up things a long time ago...
    
    					da ve

    "The Physics of Immortality". An EXCELLENT book, written by a real
    Ph.D.-type physycist. There is a review in this topic; maybe about
    March or April.
    
    Boy, If I was spouting off about that I must've been pretty far gone... 
    
    ...mike_who_wondered_why_his_mouth_tasted_of_billygoats_this_morning

    (see 117.377)
    
    ...mike
    

	Thanks Jay...  Thanks Mike... 

	I think I'll look around for the book this weekend. 
	I don't want to wait for the movie version :-)

	(Mike you shoulda ' stuck around for some of the 
	 excellent pretzels...  That got most of the billygoat taste 
	 outta my mouth...  Even with the "fern-bar mustard"
	 to quote Cathy...)

    Allison's not Alice's !  it's nowhere nears_cool as ALice's musta 
    been
    
    

    Whilst in Kennebunkport, head for Wells, and Harding's. EXCELLENT
    selection, quite clean, well-lighted premises, with a knowledgeable staff, 
    who actually LIKE books. No bookstore_cat, though... About 1 1/2 miles 
    north of the intersection of Rte. 9 and US1 (I believe is the main drag's 
    name), onthe west side.
    Also on the west side, about 1 mile S. of Harding's, is a bookstore
    (name I forget) which specializes in military and U.S. history.
    
    About 1/2 mile south of said intersection, on a side street on the east
    side of the road, is a third store with a good but not great general 
    selection.
    
    Then. somewhere around Boothbay(and I'm SURE I'll never find this store
    again) is a big old barn, very untidy, lots&lots&lots of books... and
    the BIGGEST Maine_Coon cat I've ever seen. This critter is only
    slightly smaller than a horse. He rubbed my leg... at the KNEE!
    
    Lots of good bookstores in Portsmouth, too... two on Congress St. and
    one on State St. all within two blocks if each other.
    
    M.T.BookHead 

Stumbled across a kid's book this weekend based on a poem by Arlo. The 
artwork was done by Alice herself. (No circles or arrows on the pictures in 
this one, however....)

    re: some stupid F&^&**^ moron that says quantum physiics proves God
    exists,,,
    
    
    stuped f&%^&*# moron.....

    WOW!
    An angry bitter rfb!

    yep! combination of bronchitis (SP), the miserable failure of a voting
    day we just had in COlo Spgs, the continuos onslought of hatred from
    the religious right that happens EVERYDAY in Colo Spgs, rapant violence 
    in this city that goes right thru the peabrains of the cops here, and
    I missed my chance to throw tomotoes at Pat Buchanan, who was in town
    last week
    
    rfb
    
    one good thing that DID happen, Kevin Tebedo, the author of Amd 2, had
    to resign from Focus (I prefer another spelling) On The Family.
    Supposedly because he has had a higher calling...Bullshit. He supported
    a once Gay-turned straight preacher in Denver that counsels gays into
    becomeing straight and has been suspected
    of having several gay encounters with his clients and most recently 2 of 
    his clients admitted they have had phone sex with him
    recently....course that wasn't mentioned in our local newsbroadcasts
    cause they are all a bunch of stupi f&^%^*(& morons!!!!!!
    
    
    rfb

Thanks for sharing that, rfb  ;-)

PeterT

    	Your quest for great bookstores hits a chord for me, as books and
    great bookstores are a serious addiction of mine....  I'll post my 
    favourite bookstores in two places....
    
    In Colorado Springs (where I went out to last week to decide if I
    *really* wanted to move back there, and was horrified by the traffic,
    construction, *SMOG!!*, Focus-on-other-people's-familyers, etc, and my
    wife and I have decided to stay in the mosquito-filled woods of Cow 
    Hampster, but that's another story), there was a great bookstore called 
    Poor Richards... At one time, the bookshelves lined the walls, and the 
    middle of the floor was filled with theater seats (because they showed 
    foreign/art films in the evenings), where you could sit, read a book, and 
    sip the cappucino you had bought in Poor RIchard's coffee place next door. 
    It's changed some, but it was still a nice used bookshop. No more movies, 
    and I believe the cappucino place is a few doors down now.
    
    	In Cow Hampster, though some of the stores in Portsmouth are nice,
    by far the best is Baldfaced Books, in downtown Dover. On the weekends
    they are likely to have guitarists, jazz or Michael-Hedges type music
    playing. They used to have Coffee in the store, but since the Bagel
    place opened next door, they don't have it in the store anymore; you
    have to bring it in from the Bagel place. Excellent selction of used
    books, good sections on Eastern Philosophy, Psych, Fiction, Sci-fi,
    history, new-age, computer, Science, and "Alternative Lifestyles" which
    would upset the focus-on-the-familiers. Also a huge selection of
    publisher's close-out books (brand new on a wide variety of topics from
    $2 to $5), and a small selection of CD's and tapes, mostly big-band or
    jazz. No Cat. Very comfortable place to get lost for a couple of hours. 
    Afterwards, head down the road to Tuttle's Red Barn, for great produce, 
    cheeses, coffees, pastas, and every sort of culinary extravagance.
    
    	(Fritz Weatherbee, look out)
    
    -chuck
                                                                      

    sorry we missed each other while you were out here CHuck...and I agree
    with yer asssesment of the Spgs lately (but the smog you saw was caused
    by a thermal inversion which happens every winter a few days of the
    winter and is NOT the norm) but i'm not leavin....i'll fight the bastards 
    at least till my kids are gone
    
    Ahhh Poor Richards, last bastion of liberal thinking in the city. had a
    hot turkey jack there last friday before i got the crap i have with
    several pitchers of Sam Adams while listening to 3 guys play
    whateverthey wanted to. My kids practically live there, which scares
    the shit out a me cause of the downtown violence. one can still set in
    the bookstore and read, and read, and read...no presure to buy or even
    to leave cause yer not a "PAYING CUSTOMER".
    
    keep da faith
    rfb

    
    RFB - relax!
    

    Thanks!! I needed that!
    
    rfb

    Miss America by Howard Stern, just getting started

>    Miss America by Howard Stern, just getting started

Sophisticated reading I'm sure.

:-)

    How is it, TD?

    First few chapters are rather lite in content, the way the book is
    laid out,"bold printing certain words", is distracting. So far
    not as good as the first one.

	anyone here read Weir's childrens book collaborations that he
	did with his sister Wendy?

	One is "Panther Dream" (about the rainforest and animals and
	the pigmy culture in Africa) and the other is "Baru Bay" 
	(about coral reefs and animals and the aborigine culture in
	Austrailia).  I've recently been reading both of these with
	Eli - they are really quite detailed in their animal descriptions,
	environment-friendly-instructive without being overbearing, and
	very sensitive and informative about the cultures they encounter.

	I don't know who actually wrote them - maybe both Bob and Wendy -
	but Wendy did the illustrations for both.

	Along with the books come audio cassettes - one side with Bob
	narrating and the other side with some original music indicative
	of the sounds/instruments of the area done with native musicians
	and Bob and others.

	Interestingly, I read reviews when these first came out, that Bob
	had to memorize the whole book to do the narration because he
	can't read (very well).

	The music is great - good stuff to meditate to...

	Debess

    Bob has a learning disability doesn't he?
    dyslexic maybe?

    yes, Bobby is Dyslexic...

	I imagine when he was a child (cause I never heard of
	dyslexia when I was growing up), he probably thought he
	was dumb cause he couldn't read, and lost interest in
	school.  ...so, he devoted his time to something he -was-
	good at - music.  Lucky us.

	Debess

    that explains why Bobby's teleprompter always had pictures instead
    of words!!!!!!  :^)
    
    					da ve

    We've had Panther Dreams for a few years now.  We only pull it out
    every now and then these days, but it is pretty good.  Hadn't 
    heard there was a second book out, but it sounds like a good
    possiblity for Chanakuh/Christmas.  Thanks!
    
    PeterT
    
    Just because he has dyslexia doesn't mean he can't read or write,
    Reading can be a bit of an effort, but I wouldn't be surprised
    if writing is easier (not easier overall, just in comparison to
    reading).

On Human Nature, by Edward O. Wilson.

The proposition is made that many of our human behaviours are in
fact genetic, and while culture has a very strong influence on how
these tendencies are emphasized and controlled, that they are
fundamentally innate.  I've covered the first half of the book
(including the chapters on aggression, and sex) and I'm enjoying
the book immensely.

And I've learned a new word:  Eschatology

Dan

	Debess or PeterT,

	Do you know what age group thses books are for?
	I have a 8 yr old daughter in need of another good book.
	

	Thanks,

	Toby

>	Do you know what age group thses books are for?
>	I have a 8 yr old daughter in need of another good book.
	

	Toby, Eli is 8, seems to be just right for him...fwiw...
	(one morning I woke up with him posed like a panther on
	a branch staring into my eyes...I knew right away what he
	was doing and it was a great way to begin the day)

	Debess

    
    	Thanks Debess
    
    	I'll haveta pick it up for Xmas.
    
    	I hope she doesn't stalk her little brother 8-)
    
    
    	Toby

I'm still in the 'reading to my kids' stage.  My daughter is 6.5 and 
is starting to read, but balking a bit "I'm too tired!"  She's just 
in first grade and learning.  8 should be just in the right range.
Some of the words will be a bit strange, but nothing too difficult.

PeterT

	re: 8 year old reading 'Baru Bay'...I guess I was maybe a bit
	misleading...I read to Eli - I don't think he could read this
	book himself...(but then he goes to a school where they really 
	don't teach reading until 2nd grade so he's not a typical 2nd 
	grader OR typical 8 year old cause aren't most 8 year olds in
	3rd grade?)...so what I meant by it being appropriate for an
	8 year old was really that the subject matter wasn't over his
	head...and anyways, there's always the tape if your child can't
	read...(nice to hear Bobby's voice reciting a book).

	Debess

  Seeing Tom's mention of Neal Cassady's book,
  and mention of his wife's refusal to put up
  their house for collatoral for bail, reminded 
  me of a book I had read when I wasn't working here.  
  I wrote up my thoughts then, but lost my internet 
  access, so never got to post it anywhere.  
  So, here 'tis now...  

  I had tried to get, via an inter-library loan,
  "The First Third" by Neal Cassady.  Instead, I
  rec'd "Off the Road" by Carolyn Cassady.  I am
  grateful to have had this book cross my path - 
  for here is the story of the man who influenced
  a generation or two of young people (not to
  mention the members of the Grateful Dead) told
  from the perspective of the woman with young
  children left behind as he went "on the road".
  
  without a doubt, Cassady was an amazing force who
  inspired and awed most everyone who met him.
  
  he would have -Definately- been a cool person to
  be friends with, to talk to, to travel with.
  But, to be his wife...
  
  Carolyn must have kept journals over the years,
  to have written such a detailed description of
  her life with Neal.  Also, their group of friends
  (Jack Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg, eventually Ken Kesey,
  and she and Neal) were prolific letter-writers - many
  of which are represented in the book (I'm inspired! ;-) )
  
  While Neal indulged himself whenever he wanted however he
  wanted with whomever he wanted, she tried to maintain a stable 
  home life for their 3 children.
  
  She does not wallow in anger - for the most part she writes
  about how she tried to work on herself (psychologically and
  spiritually) to be able to cope with her life.
  
  It is a fascinating book, written by one who loved him
  dearly.  Neal Cassady influenced thousands - the "Beats",
  the hippies - as a character in books, as a subject of 
  songs, as the memory carried on by many more creative
  people who in turn affected others.
  Carolyn Cassady may not have influenced thousands, but she
  is inspirational at a level I can relate to:
  I can only change myself.
  I can change my life by the manner in which I -react- to
  what life hands me.
  Relationships - we work out our karma through our relationships.
  
  Debess
  
  

    sounds like a book Patty and I could relate to....I'll haveta look for
    it locally...
    
    
    rfb

    Just finished the Colin Powell bio - very interesting life story. 
    Basic stuff - nice guy from da Bronx (my birthplace) joins Army, makes
    4 stars.
    
    Just started The Alientist by Caleb Carr.  Trivia question - who was
    his father?  Answer, Lucien Carr.  Those who are up on their Beat info
    will know who he was.
    
    Next on my list A Good Life by Ben Bradlee (former ex editor of the
    Washington Post.)
    
    Fredda  

    
       just finished The Celetine Prophecy (James Redfield) and just
    started The Dancing Wu Li Masters (Gary Zukav), a seemingly interesting
    book of quantum mechanics of the universe-stars, black holes and such-
    relayed in laymens terms (physics without the math).
    
                                                        ^dave

While out at DECUS I read "The Scarlet Pimpernel", by Baroness Orczy,
a [melo]dramatic tale of the French Revolution.  While the plot has
holes big enough to drive a truck through, it certainly did capture
my interest.  I actually wondered if anybody was planning a big-budget
period costume movie...although they would have to clean up the language
a bit...you can't have Harrison Ford running around saying "Zooks!",
now can you?

I've been meaning to read this since I first read "The Moon is a Harsh
Mistress", by Robert A. Heinlein, the story of a rather different
revolution, which references the Scarlet Pimpernel character.

Dan

> While out at DECUS I read "The Scarlet Pimpernel", by Baroness Orczy,
> a [melo]dramatic tale of the French Revolution...
> I actually wondered if anybody was planning a big-budget
> period costume movie...

  This has been done, has it not?  (Or was it a movie within a movie?  Was
  it "the movie within" that Peter O'Toole comedy of a few years ago...?)
  My memory may be playing tricks...  - JayC.

    I'm reading (or dipping into) The Song of the Bird by Anthony de Mello.
    The following is the first in the book and a typical example.
    
    Eat Your Own Fruit
    
    A disciple once complained:  "you tell us stories, but you never reveal
    their meaning to us."  Said the master: "How would you like it if
    someone offered you fruit and masticated it before giving it to you?"

    i read the scarlet pimpernel years ago...  it was a fun one...  i have
    seen a movie of it as well but it was an old black and white, full
    costume thing...  kind of fun but the book was better...
    
    i've been out sick the last couple of weeks with a bout of walkin'
    pnumonia...  not much fun...  but i did get to re read the Tolkin books
    and also Don Imus' "God's Other Son"...  the story of Billy Sol
    Hargus, a preacher/evangelist who claims to be an acutal blood relative
    of Jesus, born of a virgin, and everything...  parts of it were
    hysterically funny, like the review on the cover said...  parts of it
    were too close to wht you see and hear on tv though, and it was a
    little scary...  easy reading...  went fast...
    
    also started Tom Clancy's "Debt of Honor" that i got as a Christmas
    present...  typical Tom Clancy...
    
    					da ve

On the heels of "The Scarlet Pimpernel" I have recently completed
another melodrama, "The Count of Monte Cristo" by Alexandre Dumas.
The story begins at the time of Napolean's return from Elba, and
continues through the subsequent reign of Louis XVI(?).  It's an
interesting (though long-winded) tale of deceit and revenge, with
some highly implausible occurrences and a couple of interesting
plot twists.  I found the feigned death rather interesting...but
I won't give anything away!

Dan

Just finished "Fighter Wing" by Tom Clancy (non-fiction).  

Anyone who want's to know the in's and out's of the modern-day US Air Force
should check this out, but if you're looking for a good action story, stick to
his fiction books... this book (like the two predecessors "Submarine" and
"Armored Cav") is a hard-core user's manual for USAF-heads with a bit of
Clancy flare (sic ;-).


- jeff

    Dan,
      If you haven't read it yet, you might want to give Dumas'
    "The Three Musketeers" a try.  You've seen the movie, but
    now you can find out why they made the movie in the first
    place (because it's a darn good story ;-)
    
    PeterT
    

Hi Peter,
 
Actually, I have read The Three Musketeers, which I did enjoy
quite a bit...that's why I picked up TCOMC to read on the plane
to/from DECUS.  And I haven't seen the latest movie version yet,
but that sounds like a great snowy evening sort of flick...thanks
for the tip!

Dan

    I'm flying through "Living with the Dead" by Rock Scully, which I think
    just came out.

    Interesting light reading, humor, and information about the early daze.

    /Ken    

    
    Rolling stone biography on Jerry.  Started out with excellent quote
    from Kesey.  I'll have to post it from home tonight.

	re: last 2 - would love to hear more comments from you guys about
	these two books...

	have heard that Scully's book wallows in the negative, showing
	the "shadier" side of the boys - I don't know if I want to know
	this stuff ;-) - I mean, really, I've always felt a protective
	healthy respect for their private lives and if someone, who was
	very close to them, has come out with a book that "tells all", 
	I don't know if I want to support that.  The history of this band,
	though, I'm quite interested in...so, tell me more, Ken, what's
	it really like...

	Deane-o - is the RS "biography" really a biography or old interviews?

	Debess

    got Harrington Street for Xmas from Tom and Rose Lawlor...quick reading.
    Jerry had barely gotten started on this when he left us, so it's short
    and obviously unfinished...some good drawings.
    
    I'll get the others too, eventually. I'm feel kinda like Debess about
    Skully's book, but he was an important piece of the Family for along
    time and I'm sure we can "learn" from some of his neg. stuff. 
    
    rfb

Robyn gave me the Rolling Stone book for Christmas and I started reading 
it last night. There are several good quote right in the front cover. Reading
the table of contents there does appear to be some old interviews in the later 
part of the book the first chapter is a personal account of the associatin 
between Rolling Stone founder and Jerry through the years. It's good reading and
I suspect the interviews later on will be good also. There's some matter-of-
fact type comment here and there about drug use, which the general public may  
like to view as bad, but so far nothing is portrayed that way. 

	I guess I can say more as I read more, but so far it's very good

Geoff

    I'm with Ken Hannan, reading Living with the Dead, or actually,
    flying through it...Its very engrossing reading. I started on New
    Year's Day, and am already 200 pages in.
    
    I learned today that "Might As Well" was written about the Canadian Train
    Concert Tour, where the Dead, Big Brother, Janis, Airplane, and others
    rode a train across Canada, and stopped and did concerts....
    
    There are a lot of drug references...like on every other page, but its
    most interesting ready.
    
    

    	As an FYI, Playboy magazine had an article by Scully either last
    month or the month before; I think it was an excerpt from the book. As
    mentioned, a *lot* of dwelling on Jerry's coke usage, but interesting
    reading in any case... I was excited to learn that Jerry had wanted to
    shoot a movie of Vonnegut's Sirens of Titan, one of my favourite
    books...
    
    -chuck

           <<< Note 117.499 by XLIB::REHILL "Call Me Mystery Hill" >>>
    
>    I learned today that "Might As Well" was written about the Canadian Train
>    Concert Tour, where the Dead, Big Brother, Janis, Airplane, and others
>    rode a train across Canada, and stopped and did concerts....
    
I always thought Hunter wrote it for The Band/Grateful Dead tour across Canada?
They said all those other bands????

bob

    

    there were several bands on the Canada Train Tour..Delany and Bonni are
    one that wasn't mentioned yet, Genny Grady ?, bass player for Little
    Feat was D&B's bass player then...I've read a few things he had to say
    about that trip, one was it's the first and last time anyone ever saw
    Jerry snot-slingin drunk (Janis instigated him drinking),
    another that the train was full of straight 
    reporters and Jerry  threw them all off the train as they were annoying. 
    
    "mighty swell, mighty swell......"
    
    
    rfb

    I received the RS book for as well.  It is mostly a collection of old
    interviews, but interesting reading.  I guess it's still too soon for
    me, because I can read a few pages and then I get nostalgic, depressed,
    teary.......  The good news is that I can pick it up, open it to any
    page and find good stuff inside.
    
    -jer

    We have the RS book, I have been reading it out of order, but
    very enjoyable. It does get one sad...

The Canadian train ride also had Buddy Guy and band, pigpen hanging out with
them the whole time playin' blues ;-), and others not mentioned as well.
The storyline was that it was like the old 60's days before the crowds and
stuff when everyone just hung out, played music, and had fun!

I'm really enjoying this read.  I'm flying through it, got it and started 
around New Years too, and also just learned about the origins of Might As Well.
I never knew... 

I don't view the book as being negative at all.  Scully naturally focuses on
the management end of things but that along with everything else so far in the
book seems to involve lots and lots of psychedics =*-) Lots of Owsley stories -
what a crazy bastard he was! I had heard that it talks a lot about the dark 
side of the drugs, the white powders, but it's been minimal at most... however 
the 70's are just starting so we'll see...  

I never did good on book reports, but the book seems to me to be chock full of
one funny story after another, some fascinating.   It's not a personal expose'
at all!

One funny story is when they did Playboy After Dark in '69, and Owsley was 
pissed because they wouldn't let him do the sound for the band, so he heavily 
doses the coffee machine.  Everyone is flying, except Heffner, who Owsely is 
dyin' to dose, but he has his soda personally watched after and delivered by 
a specific personal assistant.  So no opportunity to do it!  Jerry loved 
coffee, and he was really out there when talking to a baffled Heffner. Due to 
the dosing, the sound crew was totally lost and Owsley got to do his sound ;-)

Another story that was particularly mind blowing was the when Jerry had 
bronchitis or something, bordering on pneumonia, before a 71? tour.   They 
were about the cancel the tour when it was suggested to try some alternative
medicine techniques.  They had Rolling Thunder, a medicine man I think, come 
over to perform a ceremony.  The description of what happens it amazing, still
amazes me - there appeared to be some very strong powerful things going on!
I won't spoil it for ya, but Jerry was all of a sudden completely healed and
they do the tour.

Scully has his opinions about some things, but overall it's a must read.

/Ken

    Seems like a bunch of us are at about the same point in "Living With
    the Dead". Good book so far - it does dwell on the drugs and partying
    and girls side of it but does so in a non-demeaning sort of way, SO
    FAR. 
    
    I've reached the point where the boyz discover Persian and it's
    starting to take on a different tone. Won't ruin it for NE1 else
    but it's becoming apparent that Scully's having a hard time keeping
    everyone together.
    
    Can't wait to finish this one - hopefully over the weekend.

	(whenever I read a Stephen King book, I always look ahead a few
	pages to see if there's anything up ahead that's going to really
	scare me before I get to it)

	that said ;-),
	all you people reading Scully's book, let me know what you think
	when you're done, ok?  Rock did alot of interviews on that recent
	Rock'nRoll series, and I can tell he has lots of good stories to
	tell...it's just that I don't know if I want to know the "dirt".
	I'd rather continue in my state of naive admiration...

	Debess

I just picked up the Skully book and the Rolling Stone Interviews book.
I just want 'em for the pictures :-)

 Josh

    Finished "Living With The Dead" the other day. Don't really know how I
    feel about it yet. I guess it brought things out in the open that I
    kinda suspected but wasn't really sure about - not sure I want to know
    everything. Kinda like when you find out Santa Claus isn't for real.
    Yeah, you figgered as much but to actually have your parents confirm it
    or something is pretty brutal. 
    
    Actually the first 90% of the book is pretty lite - like I said
    earlier, Rock talks about the drugs and all but it's more in good humor
    than anything else - maybe the drugs they were using then were a bit
    more good humor. The last 4 chapters or so get pretty dark though. Glad
    I read it - sorry for what they all went through to make the music we
    all love so much. Rock points out it wasn't just Jerry that had
    problems with life on the road tho - some of the others were worse in
    some respects.
    
    I'd recommend it as long as you don't mind losing "Santa Claus".
                                                        

	I guess I've decided I'm going to skip it, as much as I'm interested
	in the fun stuff.  I know that once I start reading a book, I can't
	not finish it, so.....

	thanks for the update, Jeff

	Debess

    I finished reading "Living with the Dead" the other day, and I've
    been wondering about Debess' inquiry on "should I read it"...
    
    Tough call for ya I guess.  I really enjoyed it - lots of funny 
    stories and behind the scenes stuff, but I admit I was kind of naive 
    about the band members and my perception of their ideals now that I've 
    read the book.  Some were accurate, some not, but overall I don't think
    any harm's been done ;-)

    email me for details if you'd like.

    /Ken

re:   <<< Note 117.509 by BINKLY::CEPARSKI "Guess It Doesn't Matter, Anyway" >>>

Cool synch ;-)  I read your reply after mine which follows.

>    Kinda like when you find out Santa Claus isn't for real.
>    Yeah, you figgered as much but to actually have your parents confirm it
>    or something is pretty brutal. 
    
Good analogy.  But I still dig Santa in a major way ;-)

/Ken

I'm reading the Skully book now - about 1/2 through (got a lot of reading
done yesterday :-).
Yeah, the stories are funny, and some of them do jive with other histories 
of the Dead that I've read.  Like about how "St. Stephen" is about Steve Gaskin
- I know I've read that somewhere else.  The ones about Pigpen and Hunter
getting dosed - thats true.  Some friends say that some stuff in the book 
isn't true, there are sooo many stories in there I wouldn't know what Skully's 
making up.
Still, I'd recommend you read it, Debess - I mean, lets not kid ourselves, we 
all knew there was a dark side.  

 Josh

	yeah but Josh, you're only half way through...I never would think
	of dosing as a "dark side"...that part I want to read about...
	when you're done, get back to me, ok?

	Debess

    Dosing others without their knowledge or consent might be construed
    as a dark side, it sure was during the 80's (remember the spray bottles
    and stuff ?), though I laughed like hell after reading the account
    of Jerry and Rock dosing Giraldo Rivera right before a broadcast/interview
    with the band!  I think this was around '81.  They gave him a very large 
    dose via their visine bottle at the dinner table (drops into his drink), 
    and then Jerry makes Giraldo smoke a large roach which turns his eyes red, 
    just in time for the cameras...  Rock says that he never found out if 
    Giraldo knew what had happened.

    /Ken

    Steve Gaskin???  the name rings a bell but i don't know why i should
    know it?  who is/was he?
    
    and even though i strongly disagree with dosing people without thier 
    knowledge and consent, something about dosing Geraldo strikes me as 
    hysterically funny... :^)  now THAT's something i'd like to see...
    
    					da ve

	wasn't Steve Gaskin the founder of The Farm?

>	wasn't Steve Gaskin the founder of The Farm?

Hmm.. the reference to Gaskin in the Skully book does also say "what he did"
and I think The Farm is it.

'nother interesting tidbit is how Cream Puff War is a tweak at the whole
student-revolutionaries bit (Rubin, Hoffman, etc), which Jerry didn't buy into
at all.  The few times the Dead played at rallies, and the revolutionary-types
want to get up onstage and use the PA to make their speeches and announcements,
they were told "the microphones are for the music _only_!".

 Josh

well, i'm 300+ behind.

i just finished reading "debugging the software development process"
by steve mcguire of MS.  interesting book on methods for leading s/w
development teams.  however, the book doesn't go into how to lead
teams spanning multiple sites, or timezones for that matter, or even
other countries.  the team i lead has about 25-30 people.  5 diff. 
timezones, 3 countries (us, irl, isreal).  interesting challenge on
how to make a team this spread out work and get products out the door.
cannot imagine what my phone bill is.  anyway, this book confirmed
a lot of things that i'm doing is the right track.  i'm going to
try some of his suggestions hopefully soon.

re: living dead
anyone have a copy they wanna lend me?
send me mail.

jc

    Recently, it occured to me that after I read a book, it just sat on a
    shelf collecting dust.  That's how I got the idea for something I call 
    Earth People's Library.
    
    Basically, when I come across a book I really like, I write the
    following on the inside cover and give it to a friend:
    
    	"Believe it if you need it, if you don't just pass it on.
         Enjoy reading this book!  When you are finished with it, 
         pass it along to someone else who you think would like it.
    
                     Earth People's Library"
    
    This way, books tend to find the people who could benefit the most from
    them.  I started this at Christmas by circulating "Hope for the
    Flowers" among my family.  To my surprise, I got a book from my
    mom called "Chicken Soup for the Soul" with a very similar message on
    the inside!  What an amazing coincidence!
    
    Anyway, "Hope for the Flowers" is the story of two caterpillars who are
    trying to get to the top of a 'pillar of caterpillars.'  They are all
    stepping on each other, don't talk to others, and focus all their
    anergy on getting to the top.  It is written like a children's book,
    but contains a message all adults could benefit from.
    
    "Chicken Soup for the Soul" is an AMAZING collection of inspirational
    stories about loving yourself, loving others, and making a difference
    in the world.  In fact, the 'Rules for Being Human', which was posted a
    few weeks ago, was in this book!  It seems people are now realizing how
    powerful kindness is... and are making it a part of their lives.  This
    book shows how one small act can make a BIG difference.  I highly
    recommend it!  I put a copy in a friend's bathroom; that way, whenever
    anyone happens in, they can read one of the stories.
    
    'noky
                                                 

    i like it...
    
    	i like it a lot...  :^)
    
    					da ve

    'noky,

    Chicken Soup, I just got turned on to it and I think it's awesome!
    btw, there's another one (more chicken soup, I think it's called).
    I got shivers reading that book.  (Almost as inspirational as
    Miss America ha ha!  just kidding).

    I love your Earth Library idea, too.  I have a theory that the
    book you need will come back to you if you need it.  Meanwhile,
    you're sharing something cool.

    Tom

	'noky you are one cool dude ... thanks for the great idea!

	"inspiration move me brightly"

	Debess

I picked up "Living with the Dead" yesterday, and have read the first 50
pages or so.  So far I haven't read any really surprising things, Rock's
descriptions of the early days sound about what I perceived them to be.

So far I really like the writing style used, the stories are presented in a
very amusing light, because of the subject (usually some really funny story
about a really stoned Jerry or whoever) combined with the writer's style.

The book is filling in some (accurate?!?!?) details into facts, events, and
characters with which I was already familiar.  So far, I'm really enjoying it,
but I'm reading about the most intriguing Dead era to me: the beginning, the
Acid tests, pranksters, the coming together as a band, etc.....

Hogan

I got to the part about the "Playboy After Dark" appearance, and fell off
my chair laughing.  "...the closest thing to a real party that Hugh Hefner
ever had."  Simply hilarious...

Thanks, Mystery.  I'm really enjoying it!

tim

    
    Just finished the Robber Bride by Margaret Attwood.  She also
    wrote the Handmaids Tale. 
    
    Robber Bride was a good vacation read. Zenia, one of the female
    characters, is one of the most viscious people I've encountered
    in fiction or in reality (fortunatly).
    
    Someone from Toronto saw me reading it on the beach and made
    a point of pointing out Attwood's Canadian.. he went on and on
    about how American's don't know much about what goes on/comes out
    of Canada .. I tend to agree.
    
    Cath

    
    re: 117.525 by NAC::TRAMP::GRADY
    
    >>I got to the part about the "Playboy After Dark" appearance, and fell
    
    Thats where I am too, just read that part last night.....hilarious!!! 
    I'm finding myself laughing out loud quite a bit while reading this!
    
    Hogan

    Another book that's chock full of great rock 'n' roll stories is Bill
    Graham's autobiography.  Uncle Bobo had an incredible life.
    
    Jamie

>    Another book that's chock full of great rock 'n' roll stories is Bill
>    Graham's autobiography.  Uncle Bobo had an incredible life.
    
	Jamie, someone else recommended this book to me (are you talking
	about "Bill Graham Presents") - anyways, that's the title he gave
	me - and I've searched the libraries I use with no success - even
	searching for the subject Bill Graham...

	any furthur info would be appreciated!

	Debess

    re .529
    
    The title is indeed "Bill Graham Presents," by BG and Robert
    Greenfield.  Any bookstore should be able to order it for you.  I'm
    surprised that you're having a hard time finding it.
    
    His life was a fascinating story; besides his concerts which we know
    him from, he escaped Nazi Germany as a child, worked as a waiter in the
    Catskills resorts, and had John Bonham (hack Led Zep drummer) arrested.
    
    Jamie

    
    >>(hack Led Zep drummer) 
    
    Never miss an opportunity, do you Jamie?  :^)
    
    Hogan (Zeppelin fan, despite the blatant rippoffs)

    While wandering around Encore Books the other night We came across a
    hardback compliation of all the interviews Jerry did with Rolling Stone
    over the years.  It was put together with alot of care and it is very
    interesting.  Some of the pictures I had never seen before and I think
    it's well worth it (of course, it helps that the book was featured in
    their January sales coupon book!)  Also, picked up Harrington Street
    which I haven't had a chance to look through.
    
    Fredda

    we got Harrington St at the house over the holidays...  haven't really
    checked it all out yet, but some of the art is pretty neat!
    
    					da ve

>    While wandering around Encore Books the other night We came across a
>    hardback compliation of all the interviews Jerry did with Rolling Stone
>    over the years.  

	a little while ago, I was cleaning up a shelf that never gets cleaned,
	and came across a whole stack of Rolling Stone-s, even some from when
	it was a newspaper type of magazine - all with interviews with Jerry
	or other members of the Dead...I wonder how many of those that are in
	the book that I already have in the original magazine form!!!

	btw - the rest of the room never ended up getting cleaned that day - 
	I was forced to sit down and do some reading ;-)

	Debess

    Debess,
    
    I remember when it was still a newspaper rag!  I used to save them and
    had years worth piled up.  Then I decided to paint my room and trashed
    them all.  My super was mad at me for weeks because of all the bundles
    he had to tie up (ah, the joys of apartment living!).  I still remember
    the first issue I ever got from my subscription - it was a Led Zepplin
    cover story with Robert Plant, et al on the cover!
    
    Fredda

I've been rereading A Midsummer Night's Dream...a pleasant story,
and one with good images to take your mind off the harsh winter.

Dan

I've got the original two RS magazine's with the two-part Jerry interview
with Charles Riech.  Scammed 'em from my older brother I think.
The paper's getting a little delicate.  Its a blast checking out the old
ads for stereos, and new albums coming out just then.

Josh

    I have original (full) Rolling Stones newsrag on Dylan from the 
    rolling thunder review tour.  Also have original Playboy article
    from that same era (bought it for the article!) with Dylan.  One of the
    articles has him in full whiteface - its so cool.
    
    Also i have a color reprint from Chris Fields of the Dead in Eygpt (how
    do you spell that NEway?) - has Jerry on a camel - the kind you ride ..
    and the article is nifty too.
    
    must be the time of year, Debess .. i unearthed a bunch of that stuff
    and put it together with the articles I collected when Jeryy died. 
    
    c

    a friend of mine gave me a laser printout of the 
    Deadheads Against Discrmination
    billboard in DENVER in 90, 92??? (God my mind is shot)
    
    TimTim might even have been the photographer...I rememebr him leaving
    our hotel room one morning *EARLY* to hike down and take a shot of said
    billboard.
    
    rfb

    
>    must be the time of year, Debess .. i unearthed a bunch of that stuff
>    and put it together with the articles I collected when Jeryy died. 
    
	for Christmas, my sister-in-law gave me an empty scrapbook and all
	the articles she had cut out when Jerry died.  I had cut out lots of
	articles myself and just threw them into a folder and into a file
	cabinet.  Pulled them all out, and I've been spending several hours 
	cutting, re-reading old articles, arranging them on pages, pasting,
	...crying...

	but now that it's pretty well finished up, it's pretty special and
	I'm glad I did it.  When my kids took a look at what all these 
	reporters had to say, they said "Mom you should write about what 
	he meant to -you- and put it in" ;-)  If they only knew -how much-
	I write about what he meant to me!

	Debess

	I'm reading "The Education of Harriet Hatfield" by May Sarton...
	folks around this area may remember that a teacher in Rindge (maybe?)
	got fired for using this book for her literature class - she had
	ordered a bunch of (approved-by-the-school-board) books with a grant
	she rec'd and then distributed them to her high school class.  After
	the kids had them and started reading them, the board decided that
	the book was inappropriate.  Told her to take them back.  This was
	against her principles and she refused.  They fired her for 
	insubordination.

	I just started it last night - and find it ironic that the subject
	of the book is about a woman being harassed because she opens a
	women's book store in a working class neighborhood and some of the
	clientele are lesbians.  Almost, not quite, like life imitating art
	in this case...

	Debess

	

    	I just purchased "Living with the Dead" yesterday and I am
    	already completely engrossed in it.  
    
    	MJ_born_20years_late...  sigh....
    

I finished "Living with the Dead" on the plane home from Vancouver.  It's
a phenomenal book - can't remember the last time a book made me laugh out
loud so many times...

Thanks again, Mystery.

tim

Found a copy of "Drumming at the Edge", by Mickey Hart...very fun
reading...made me put on every drum/rhythm oriented track I could
find...and now I must see if I can find something by this Joseph
Campbell fellow...

Dan

	I'm on the last chapter of _Many Lives, Many Masters_ by
	Dr. Brian Weiss.  I've kinda decided if something comes at
	me from a couple different directions, then maybe I should
	pay attention.  Within a day of eachother, 2 acquaintances from 
	completely different circles of friends recommended this book 
	to me - so I figured it probably had something that I needed
	to know.  One woman is a survivor of breast cancer, and
	heartily recommended this book as something that helped her
	thru while she was dealing with her disease and possible
	death.

	This book is about reincarnation - told from the perspective
	of a previously skeptical doctor - a psychiatrist.  In treating
	a patient, also of a background with no leanings toward this
	philosophy, he accidently caused her/provided her with the
	opportunity to regress into a past life while she was under
	hypnosis.  He lays his skepticism on the line - and goes through
	the process he went through in changing his mindset about 
	the possibility of reincarnation being a real phenomenon.

	And then he relays the spiritual lessons "she" gives him as
	she also remembers the state between lives.

	Very interesting.  It didn't change my mind - because I already
	believe this. ;-)  But I thought it was presented in such a way that
	a doubter would possibly rethink and give some creedence to the
	whole idea of reincarnation and karma.

	Debess

    Currently about midway through "Hocus Pocus" by Kurt Vonnegut.  Written
    in the early 90's, possibly his last book; at least I'm not aware of
    any more recent.  The blurbs on the jacket proclaim this is "classic
    Vonnegut", and "the best he's written in years" (don't they alawys say
    that :-).
    
    It's nominally about the aftermath of Vietnam, the U.S. prison system
    (good tie in to the recent discussion here actually), class warfare,
    and the end of the world (but I haven't gotten that far yet).  I haven't
    really dug into any Vonnegut since my college daze, but was he really
    always this cynical?  I realize what he's doing is largely satire, but
    still...  On one level, it's a very depressing book.
    
    His unique style, wit, and gift for the absurd are intact, and the way
    he weaves multiple strands of odd connections is still a marvel.  But
    the great Vonnegut books, "Cat's Cradle" and "Slaughterhouse Five" were
    like finely architected buildings; it's not clear to me yet whether this
    one will end up a similarly solid work or if he's just riffing here.
    
    /rick
    

    I recently read Michael Crichton's sequel to "Jurassic Park," entitled
    "The Lost World."  It was a bigger piece of crap than the first book. 
    I'm going to write a sequel in which the snot-nosed kids from the first
    and second books are slowly tortured to death over 300 pages.
    
    Before that I read Howard Stern's "Miss America" which I found more
    vile and less funny than the first book.  The lack of lesbian stories
    really hurt this book in my estimation.  The best chapter was about his
    destruction and humiliation of his rival disk jockey.
    
    I just finished "Biggest Secrets" by William Poundstone.  This series
    of books exposes secrets and debunks myths.  My favorite part was a
    chart showing the ingredients of various luncheon meats.  If you've got
    a hankering for lymph nodes and assorted glands, give Libby's Potted
    Meat Food Product a try.
    
    I hate to admit it, but this was my reading list.
    
    Jamie

Crichton's a big seller, but I've read a few of his books and they seem
very formulaic to me.  It's almost like it's the same cast of characters,
just different settings and reasons for getting together, and different
names.   It's possible the appeal is that they are largely filmable.
I wonder if he has a film contract in hand before he starts writing?

PeterT

    
    Edward Abbey's Monkey Wrench Gang (thanks to Chris Kupiec)
    
    Lots of Utah references.  Was kinda neat reading as I looked 
    out the plane window at all the places I was reading about.

    is that the one that suggests putting spikes in trees to 
    maim the guys who cut 'em down?

    
    I just finished Huck Finn.  Good book.  
    
    

    
    >    is that the one that suggests putting spikes in trees to 
    >    maim the guys who cut 'em down?
    
    It goes WAY beyond that!  
    
    The ultimate theme.  You can't win with violence.  You can win
    with money and power.  Good book for imagery.

Deane,

	Wouldn't that book make a great movie??

	
Chris

    
    
    	East of Eden  -  John Steinbeck

Notes

Was cruisin' the classics at Lariat Books in the Natick Mall the other day.

Came up with a nice pocket version of Walt Whitman's "Song Of Myself". 

Just got started with it, but seems like a grate long poem about self, life,
and relations.  pretty cool.

						.....davet.

    
    The lost world
    
    
    good book I stayed up til 1 AM last nite
    
    
    Toby
    

Toby, see Jamie's take in .568  ;-)

and then my reply in .569


Which shouldn't be taken as a slam to your tastes.  Different
things work for different folks...


I keep thinking I should take a stab at Finnegan's Wake.  I used to 
think I'd gain a lot more experience before I took it on, but
now time's awastin'  ;-)


PeterT