Conference moira::parenting

    My son, Jake, is now five months old - I am still breast feeding and
    still have not had a period, and I am not complaining.  
    
    Changing the subject, when I was in labour with Jake, I was offered an
    epidural and accepted - the biggest mistake of my life.  Unfortunately,
    there were real problems trying to "connect me up", and after the third
    try the anaethetist had to give up.  What had happened was that he
    could not accurately get to my epidural space, and kept going through
    to the lumbar space in my spine.  This resulted in me being kept flat
    on my back for three days, having to drink plenty of liquids plus a
    drip connected, to try to stop any headaches.  I also suffered severe
    whiplash in my neck.  Any way, the headaches did come and stayed with
    me for two weeks, but ever  since I have been prone to getting them -
    especially if I am tired.
    
    Has anyone else ever suffered this kind of problem?
    
    I would go through it all again - Jake was worth every second of it.
    
    Maggie Nixon  

    
    I have a question relating to epidural's.  The place on
    my spine is very tender to touch where they gave me the
    epidural - is that normal? 
    
    Jeanne
    
    

    I've heard a lot of different experiences and after-effects 
    from the epidural, usually not as severe as the one in -.2
    
    For me they went in first, hit a blood vessel and had to try
    higher. The second time he must have hit a nerve since I jumped
    and let out a yelp -- it was like getting an electic jolt. 
    I noticed some soreness for the next 2 weeks or so, and some general
    back pain when I bent down (although I am not sure whether this 
    was from the epidural or the actual delivery.).
    
    Monica

    We've just had a brief discussion on the merits of epidurals a few
    weeks ago, and I put in there how mine hadn't worked either and how 
    it just ended up making my labour longer and more painful. I'd never
    do it again. Sometimes it still hurts in my back where they put the
    needle, even a couple of years later. They said I had a funny
    spine, etc., etc., but later one of the doctors told me the
    person who did it (can't spell that word on a Monday morning; you
    know, anathes...ana....oh well, I give up) wasn't very good anyway, but
    you can't help who is on duty when you need the epidural.
    
    Elizabeth 

    I had two epidurals, one for my first son who was a caesarian and the
    other for an operation on my feet.  Both were very successful with no
    side effects at all.  For the caesarian, I could feel but there was no
    pain.  The anesthesiologist who did the second one said they are
    careful about how much they use, even of local anethetics, when it
    involves babies and birth.
    
    I was happy to have epidurals rather than general anethetics because
    the recovery was faster and there isn't the terrible depression nor
    vomiting from a general anesthetic.
    
    ccb

    I also have had two epidurals. One with my C-section and one with my
    VBAC.  I obviously needed one with the C-section but I opted for the
    second one and I'm glad I did.  
    
    I really needed a break I really could not have gone on much longer 
    without a rest.  I had been in labor for 15 hours and I was having one 
    contraction after another without any break in between.  I was only given 
    a small dose which lasted about an hour before it wore off just in time to 
    push.  They left the catheder (sp?) in just in case I needed another dose 
    but I didn't.
    
    Angie

    
    
    I had an epidural and I'm glad that I did.  Fortuantely it worked
    well for me.  I waas in labor at 11:00pm on Thursday nite and
    I didn't deliver Nicholas until 10:00pm on Friday.  I had
    back labor and it was VERY painful.  I was thinking that I
    was just being a baby and if everyone else can handle the pain
    why couldn't I?  Well little did I know (the nurses, midwife and
    doctor too) that I was going to deliver a 9lb 15oz (1 ounce shy
    of 10 lbs) 22 1/2 inch long baby who was 2 weeks overdue VAGINALLY!
    No wonder I was in a lot of pain.  The contractions hurt more
    than anything else.  They gave me neubane (sp?) which made
    me really tired and hooked me up to an Iv with fluid because
    I was dehydrated (I went through 10 bags of IV fluid and 
    4 bags of antibiotics in 4 days), then broke my water, then
    put in a cathedar (sp?) then later gave me the epidural
    and the pitocin.  After tearing pretty badly they gave
    me an episiotomy and then used the "Mighty Vac" to suction him
    out.  I was asleep and they had the fetal monitor hooked
    up to me and my husband would wake me up and tell me when a contraction
    was coming, then I'd push, then i'd throw up, then i'd fall
    asleep again.  This went on for 2 straight hours and finally
    Nicholas was born!  Talk about relief.  I ended up staying 4 days
    in the hospital because I lost so much blood that I couldn't
    walk with out getting dizzy and blacking out.  But after all
    of that, within an hour (the first hour after I was like, No
    Way, never again!) I said I'd do it again.  You know that you're
    going to get something out of all that you're going through
    and it's well worth it.  He's such a good baby (big baby)!
    
    Chris

    I've seen this phrase in several notes, but I can't find it in any of
    my books.
    
    What exactly is "back labor"?

    Not sure what the medical definition of back labor is but basically you
    feel the contractions (read pain) in your lower back. It is not your
    usual back pain but these are intense. I had back labor since my
    daughter was sunny-side-up until the final moment when she decided to
    turn over.
    
    Shaila
    
    P.S. I was glad I was allowed to sit in the hospital jacuzzi to ease
    the back labor pains. Having the hot water jets hit your back relieves
    a lot of the pain. Also, I walked a lot during labor - this helped a
    lot too rather than just lying down or sitting.

    as Shaila implied, back labour is when baby is "facing up" so their
    travel down the "dark tunnel" presses their spine against yours. Often
    doctors will suggest getting on your hands and knees (or leaning up
    against the back of a chair or bed) to ease the pressure. It usually
    means much more pain during labour.
    Normally, baby will be either sideways or face down during delivery.
    
    Monica

    My second was "sunny side up" up until a hour before delivery.  My
    pain was not concentrated in my back however.  I felt pain everywhere. The
    doctor had me kneel on the bed using pillows to support my front.  I
    stayed this was for quite a while.  I could'nt stand this position
    anymore.  My legs were weak and I was tired so I asked for the
    epidural. What a relief!!!!!!
    
    I think that it is natural to feel letdown if your delivery doesn't go
    as you expect it.  I have many friends that have had perfect natural
    deliveries and I have learned to not feel bad because mine were not
    perfect.  With # 1 I had the following letdowns, I was induced into
    labor (as apposed to going into labor), I ended up needing a C-section.
    With # 2 I needed drugs and an epidural, I had an episiotomy and the 
    doctor had to use a vaccum extractor.  Both my daughters are beautiful 
    and healthy.  Would I go through this again.   Definately YES...
    
    Angie  
                             
     

I too had an "epidural gone wrong."  My doctor had given me a "para-cervical", 
where they give you a shot on both sides of the cervix.  (My doctor was a GP
and not allowed to give epidurals, so he gives para-cervicals on a regular 
basis.)  Due to severe back labor, after the para-cervical wore off I asked 
my doctor's backup, an OB/GYN who was in the hospital and who would have 
done a C-Section if I had needed it, to go ahead with the epidural.  

First they sprayed some cold stuff on my back to numb it, then proceeded to 
attempt to jam the tube into my back (that's how it felt...).  Although I'm 
a little fuzzy on the whole episode, I remember several failed attempts, and 
after they thought it was in I felt buzzing in my ears and calmly said "I'm
going to faint".  Right then I got an instant AWFUL headache (like my head
was going to explode) and the blood pressure monitor started beeping like 
crazy.  Everyone was rushing around and I thought "This may be it - I'm 
might actually die ..."  (Coming from a rational, non-dramatic person.)  

I really don't know what happened that day.  My theory is that the medicine 
didn't go to the right place.  I went into the delivery room without the 
benefit of ANY medicine (my legs were just slightly numb for a few minutes).
But the delivery went fine without any more hitches.  I DID have a horrible
headache for several days after. 

So, like .1 I would choose NOT to have an epidural in the future, based on 
my experience.  


Susan

    Both my wife and I have had epidurals with no problems, Mine was for my
    leg operation and my wife's (Paula) weas for the birth.  My wife wanted
    to try to do the birth with no drugs but after 11 hours of hard labor
    she needed to get the rest.  Two hours later Aliya was born (with a
    little help from the vacuum extraction).  When number two is born in
    October, Paula has said she would again like to go with no drugs but if
    need be will do another epidural.
    
    The guy that administered the epidural to her was a really neat guy. 
    We have already checked the hospital and he is still there.  Paula
    would just love it if he was avaiable and she needed the dose.
    
    As a lot of you have said, it is more likely the way it is administered
    that causes the problems.  Even mine in a military hospital, given to
    me by a very new corpsman was no problem.  Except for the threat of a
    catheter (sp) if I did not fill a bottle 4 hours after the operation. 
    I won.

    re .12 - Did you never get an adequate explanation for what happened?
    I think I would have been rather insistant to know what went wrong.
    (I got the shivers just reading your note!)
    
    Could it be possible that they ran the fluid into the blood vessels?
    
    Monica

    RE: .12
    
    Sounds like that got into your spinal fluid and that would explain
    the sudden headache.  Back when they did saddle blocks that's what
    they used to do.  You would have to lie flat for a long time
    to prevent the massive headache from the spinal fluid leakage.
    
    That is a risk of epidurals.  Mine still bothers me some.  It's
    been almost 4 months but it is better than it used to be.
    
    Kristen

Monica -

I have always regretted that I never found anything out.  After having the
baby I had the typical "mind-erasure" that many mothers experience, and 
could only remember things if I wrote them down ... (now *where* did I put 
that note?...)  I guess I just forgot to ask.

However, since friends and relatives kept asking what my daughter's APGAR 
scores were, I DID ask the doctor's office for her birth medical information 
and nowhere does it mention anything about the epidural episode.
Strange.  I have since changed doctors and received my complete medical file 
and still did not see a mention of it.  I do wonder if it was something 
that was pushed under the rug.  

Well, this note has inspired me to call the office and find out!!


Susan

    ...and now on to spinals...
    
    We're due to have #2 in early November & I will *absolutely* refuse
    under any circumstances to let them give me a spinal like they did 
    for our first.
    
    We entered the hospital at 8 am on a Sunday morning, with contractions
    less than 5 minutes apart.  I had just had a doctors visit the Thursday
    before & everything *seemed* okay (except the doctor thought the baby
    seemed a little "loose" in placement for 2 cm dilated), but anyway...
    
    Being the intelligent, well-informed, lamaze trained parent-to-be that
    I was, I was huffing & puffing away like transition stage was here to
    stay.  Well, the nurse convinced me to slow down a bit, got me admitted
    & shipped to a birthing room. As the day progressed, the on-call doctor
    came in to check me -- still 2 cm dilated, & "hmmm, the baby doesn't
    seem quite lodged in the birthing canal yet -- oh well, we'll come back
    & check you again a bit later -- if nothing's happening then, then
    maybe we'll discharge you home."  Anyway, the day progressed & the
    doctor came back periodically.  After 9 hours of labor I was still 2 cm 
    dilated.  *I was frantic* -- my body was saying "transition labor" & the 
    on-call doctor was still wondering about discharge...anyway - by now 
    she's getting curious because the baby still doesn't feel like it's moved 
    any further into the birthing canal, soooo - she finally decides to do
    an ultrasound.
    
    Guess what -- he's breech & NOBODY GUESSED!  Then she says, oh gee, 
    guess we need an anesthesiologist...she really is in transition labor.
    I don't know where they dug him up, but by the time he came & started
    administering the spinal *I didn't even feel the needle*.  In the
    middle of administering it, my water broke, they had to stop, then
    finish administering "once I was done" (gee it was such a sharing
    moment).  I went numb, they wheeled me into the delivery room, and
    I delivered via c-section.
    
    The topper was, (I think), because of the the motion during
    administering the spinal, I got spinal headaches.  I realized I had
    them when I tried to get out of bed to go the bathroom (after the
    appropriate wait period lying flat on my back), and saw the floor come
    up & meet me (thank God I had a nurse helping me)...she got me to the
    bathroom for the one and only visit to a real bathroom I would make for 
    the next five days.
    
    I had spinal headaches for that first month.  Along with the normal 
    hormonal "ups & downs" you go through, this made it very difficult to 
    enjoy this new person in my life.
    
    Despite the negatives I've heard regarding epidurals, I know they won't
    be any worse than the spinal I had, so I'll opt for that if it becomes
    necessary.  I've heard as many good things about epidurals as bad, so
    I'll take my chances.
    
    By the way -- I, like others who responded, am very glad we have our 
    little boy, and don't regret anything we went through to have him.  I 
    figure, what we went through is just a moment out of time, in trade for 
    a lifetime of happiness (he is a joy for us -- despite those challenging 
    moments all kids give us!)
    
    On to #2!
    
    Linda

    I actually did have a bad time until it was time to deliver!!!!!!
    
    I had go into labor around 5:00 and didn't arrive to the hospital until
    12:00 midnight!  By the time I got there, I was already 5cm's!!!!!!
    I was so glad, I thought I would go fast!  Well, my daughter had other
    ideas!  She didn't want to come out at all!  I finally got the go ahead
    to push around 5:30 that morning.  I knew it was going to be difficult,
    my husband at times told me that he thought I was going to loose it!
    Well, I kept my cool until I had pushed for 2 hours and still nothing!
    I finally asked if the doctor could take the baby C-section because I
    couldn't push anymore!  He said keep going your are almost there, I
    pushed for another 2 hours and finally I gave birth to my daughter!
    I thought it would never end!  But I have a beautiful little girl and
    very happy!!!!!
    
    Kudos to all!!!!!!!
    
    

    Didn't see a note on this yet -
    
    My husband and I just got a tour of the maternity floor at St.
    Vincent's - Worcester.  When I check in (in another 2 months or so!),
    based on first-come-first-serve, I will have the choice of the
    following rooms:
    
    LDRP 	Labor, Delivery, Recovery, Postpartum
    		Patients must be released within 36 hours of delivery
    		They only have 2 of these.  
    		Nice rooms!  Bed breaks down for delivery.  Foldout bed for 
    		coach.  Crib for baby.
    
    LDR		Labor, Delivery, Recovery
    		Patients are released within 48 hours of delivery
    		They have 3 of these.
    		Pretty nice rooms - 2 of the 3 have private baths.
    		Patients stay here until 2 hours after delivery, after
    		that they go to the standard 2 person hospital room.
    
    Labor	in 1 room
    Delivery	in another room	
    Recover	back in the labor room for 2 hours
    Postpartum	standard 2 person hospital room
    		Patients are released within 48 hours of delivery
    
    Personally, I prefer either the LDR or the LDRP rooms.  Much nicer
    looking room, much less moving around.  The LDRP room sounds like the
    nicest BUT - for a 1st child - am I pushing things to say that baby and
    I will be ready to check out after 36 hours?  Is 48 hours better?
    
    Any opinions/personal experiences?
    
    Thanks!
    
    - Barb

    Our HMO (MTHP) has just instituted a new decree that mother and child
    (no matter if this is your first child or your fifteenth) must leave the
    hospital 24 hours after the birth of the child.

    	Talk about rushing things! I was talking with my midwife and had
    some concerns that if I was induced again, I wasn't sure that I would
    be able to leave in 24 hours (I was on strong pain meds for 48 hours
    following the induced birth of Spencer and could barely walk/get out of
    bed by myself before 48 hours, I had also lost a lot of blood and left
    the hospital severely anemic). She assured me that if your case is
    "special" they will keep you longer, however, for a "normal and
    routine" birth, you leave the hospital after 24 hours.

    	I do know of some women who can do this with no problem, but I
    think it is definitely pushing things for the mother (and father who
    has also just undergone a pretty strenuous situation). For those of us
    who birth 'em big, this is not joyous news.

    			Wendy

    I stayed in a LDRP room when delivered my son 4 yr ago.  I was
    supposed to check out in 24 hours but ended up staying the whole
    2.5 days.  They did consider moving me into another room at the
    end of first day.  But there were no other empty beds.  My suggestion
    is to go for the LDRP room.  If you need to stay longer, they will
    probably move you to another room.  Or if you are as lucky as I was,
    you may stay in the same room the whole time.
    
    Wendy

24 hours even after a Cesarian? What do they intend you to go home in, an
ambulance????

FYI U Mass Memorial in Worcester does not allow planned C section moms to stay
in the LDRP (nicest) rooms. If you scream loud enough they will give you a
double room as a single so that the husband can stay with you.

Chris

    
    I believe that C-sections fall under the "special" category and you get
    to stay longer, however, with the push to get you out of the hospital
    as soon as possible, I don't imagine it would be much longer than 48
    hours.

    For what ever it is worth, I entered the hospital on Monday to begin
    induction and left with the baby on Thursday. Dramatics aside, I really
    don't think that I would have been able to leave any sooner than that.

    				Wendy

Well, I stayed 12 days with a planned caesarian and 10 days with a VBAC.  I had
a private room both times.  I would not have been able to leave much earlier
since it was 5 days before I could walk after the VBAC.  I guess I come into
the "special" category but in normal cases, women generally stay 3-5 days
here in the hospital.  I think it is much more humane.  You get to receive all
your visitors while the nurses are looking after all the details and you can
recover.

ccb

    In France it is 5 days for everyone !

Although I can sympathize with those women who feel they need more time
in the hospital, I think that most women are ready to leave within a day
or two.  I know I was, and most of the women I know personally were as well.
Hospitals are very expensive, and we all end up paying (through higher
insurance rates) the price when people stay longer than absolutely necessary.

These shorter guidelines are just that - guidelines.  They are meant to
encourage women to leave as soon as they possibly can.  Any hospital that
FORCES a woman to leave before she is ready is being irresponsible and
open to a lawsuit should any complications arise as a result of the premature
release.

A friend of mine was offered an interesting incentive to leave the hospital
early after the birth of her son.  I'm not sure if this was the hospital's
proposal (Newton-Wellseley) or her HMO (Harvard Health).  The deal was:
If you leave the hospital within 24 hours (regular delivery) or 48 hours 
(C-section) they will provice a visiting nurse for a week to come to your 
house dayly to help out.  The service cost the providor less than keeping 
new moms in hospital beds, and gave the new moms assistance for a longer 
period of time than if they were to stay in the hospital three days.

Personally, I would like to see more hospitals and insurance carriers offer
this kind of insentive because it is advantageous to both the mother and
the hospital/insurance carrier.

    Yeah..they do that here in Georgia.  Your home within 24 hrs for
    a natural childbirth and 72 hrs for c-section.  The next day they
    send a nurse over to check on you and the baby.
    
    Unfortunately, my nurse after the c-section was not too bright
    and gave me *ICE* gatorade and I had to stay an extra day for
    a distended stomach....the ice had made my intestines shut off...
    that was fun!
    
    I think it is good to go home right a way with your first...but I
    bet it is hard with a toddler and a new baby the first few weeks...
    
    Kristen

    
    I gave birth to my son in early September, and I had a C-Section that
    was unplanned.  I was in labour for 21 hours and pushed for 3 hours - 
    needless to say I was exhausted by the time they gave me the C-Section.
    
    In my particular case my son was lodged in my pelvic bone and caused
    alot of pain and in the process of delivering, I lost alot of blood,
    which may not be the case in ordinary circumstances.  Bottom line for
    me was that I was in recovery from 5:30pm when I had him until 4:30am
    the following morning until I was put in a semi-private and I was in 
    the hospital for 5 days due to the fact that I had alot of pain and a
    hard time walking.  It took a couple days before I was up and walking.
    With all that you need to know with a newborn baby and being a first
    baby - those days are vital in the hospital - it's tough enough for
    to go home the first few weeks with a new baby and try recovering from
    major surgery.
    
    I was also offered the 24 hours release package, but was unable to take
    it due to the C-Section.
    
    FWIW
    Laura

    The hospital that I went to in New Hampshire told me if I wanted to pay
    the difference between a semi-private and private room - and if a
    private was available - I could have it.  So when I went into labor and
    arrived at the hospital I asked and received a private room.  The
    difference between the 2 rooms (4 years ago) was only $10.00!!!!  Of
    course that may have increased over the years.  But if you don't ask -
    you don't receive.
    

    I delivered my second son at St V's 16 months ago, and was fortunate to
    get one of the LDRP rooms. I was allowed to stay 48 hours, so perhaps
    the rules have changed if you think you'll only be allowed 36?
    
    I liked having the space for my older son to come visit; for me to walk
    in during labor, and in having a private bath.
    
    3 yrs previous I had delivered my first son there and was able to get a
    private room. Now I believe there are no private rooms, so the real
    benefit to the LDRP is that you'll have QUIET to get some rest and get
    acclimated to your baby before going home.
    
    

    
    
    	I delivered at St. V's last March in one of the LDR rooms.  The
    LDRP's were full (until I started pushing.  They wanted to know if I
    wanted to move to one.  Are you KIDDING?)  I liked the LDR, BUT, it
    *is* kind of small (I had one with a private bath - I wouldn'thave it
    any other way.)  I got kind of sick of the room after a while, but that
    may happen to everyone.  Also, when I got a semi-private room
    afterwards, but no one else was in it during my stay, so it was great!
    
    	I definitely needed the 48 hours afterward.  I was severly anemic
    and was a little dizzy for quite a while.  Plus, there was a problem
    with my baby giving us a clearly wet diaper.  If she hadn't clearly
    urinated, I would have been dischared and she would have stayed.  If I 
    had to leave earlier than 48 hours, I would have had to sleep in the 
    nursing mother's room or go home and drive in every 3 hours to nurse.  
    The extra 12 hours was defintely worth it to me.  So next time, I
    probably won't even ask for an LDRP, just the LDR.
    
    	Justine  
    

    I had my first baby in Texas, where the norm 2 years ago was to leave
    the hospital 24 hours after a vaginal delivery and 4 days after a C
    section.  I was admitted to the LDRP and after 3 days of labor (3
    inductions) I had a C-section and wound up in a regular hospital room
    for my remaining stay.
    
    I'm due to have my second next week.  We just visited the hospital and
    found the LDRP (Newton Wellsley Hospital) rooms to be much smaller than
    what we used in Texas, but since this is a VBAC, I'm hoping to get one
    of those rooms.  
    
    I left the hospital a day earlier than required after my C-section.  I
    perferred to be home as soon as possible.  This time I'm going to spend
    every minute I can at the hospital...a toddler at home and new infant
    will give me enough of a challenge when I get home, no need to rush it!
    
    
    Sharon

As for Healthsource, I was just notified that the length of stay is 
somewhat my option.  If I deliver VBAC, the stay is covered for 24
or 48 hours.  If I decide on the 24 hour release, then I get the visiting
nurse and a cash incentive.  I don't get either if I choose to stay for
48 hours.  If I have another C-section, then the option is 72 hours with 
the nurse and a cash incentive or 4 days.

Of course if there is a medical reason to stay, then the insurance will
usually cover it.

Personally, I can't stand laying around in a hospital and fine recovery
at home much quicker and more comfortable.  (But this time I will have
to deal with an almost 3 year old :-/

I also belong to MTHP.  They want you home 72 hours after a C-Section.
I had an unplanned C-section (he was breech) and asked to go home 48
hours later which they agreed to.  I felt great and wanted to be in my
own bed.

Pam

    Sharon - remember, everything in TEXAS is bigger...
    
    
    8^)
    
    -sandy
    

	I thought I'd share with you my experience on how I induced by own
	labor.  According to my nurse practitioner, the following suggestion 
	has put 75% of women in labor within 48 to 72 hours (providing it is
	done accurately which the doctor neglected to completely inform me
	on).  

	It is referred to as nipple stimulation.  What you or a willing partner
	should do is rub, in small circular motions, your nipples and 
	surrounding area for 10 to 15 minutes each 3 to 4 times a day.

	Within 48 hours, I was in labor and delivered another 15 hours later.
	When I first started this, nothing much happened with the exception
	of some twinges in my belly.  After about the second or third session,
	I started to feel real contractions each time I would do this.  The
	contractions would stop after I stopped rubbing but would start up 
	again once I started the stimulation, again.  I started this on a
	Tuesday evening and by the time I went to bed Thursday evening,
	contractions were coming on there own without any stimulation.

	I was one week overdue when the nurse gave me this great advice.  I
	was being scheduled for inducement on the day I would have been two
	weeks overdue.  I started the stimulation on the seventh day I was
	overdue, went into 'official' labor on the ninth day and delivered
	on the 10th day past my due date.  

	Has anyone had a similar experience or maybe make other recommendations 
	for inducing one's own labor (be they old wives tales or tried and true
	remedies)? 
	
	Deanna 

	I looked around a bit but wasn't able to find anything on this
	particular subject.  If I've missed something, please feel free
	to redirect me.

	I am due with my second child at the end of May.  I had my first
	child naturally with the exception of pneumorphan (sp?) to ease
	the pain of contractions.  I was in labor 15 hours total about
	7 hours of which were very intense.  I pushed for two hours and
	delivered my beautiful little girl with the assistance of the
	vac (sp?).  After hearing other's experiences, I'd have to say my 
	labor and delivery were fairly textbook with one exception.  I had a 
	3rd degree laceration because, apparently there was no time for an 
	episiotomy (sp?) once the vac was inserted.  Because of this tear, it 
	took me well over a month to recover from the delivery.  

	What I would like to hear are the experiences of second and subsequent
	child births after having the first one vaginally.  I'd be interested
	in hearing others experiences on such things as:

		o  Differences in total labor time between first and second.
	        o  Total time of pushing with first and second.
		o  Whether you had an episiotomy with the first and needed one 
		   with the second.
		o  In general, how you handled the second labor and delivery
		   as compared to the first both emotionally and physically.
           
	My doctor has reassured me that the second delivery will go much
	easier, probably and hour of pushing at most and that I may not even 
	need an episiotomy.  I've also heard that total labor times can be
	cut in half or more.

	Your shared experiences would be appreciated.  Ignorance was somewhat 
	bliss the first time around, I'm more aware now based on experience 
	and I'm not sure how this will affect how I handle labor and delivery 
	the second time around.

	Thanks.  Deanna

    Every Labor is different, but usually if you don't pull a Meg and have
    your kids with 7-11 year spacing, your cervix will tend to dialate much
    more quickly the second time.  It had been so long between Lolita and
    Carrie (11 1/2 years) that Carrie actually took longer.  Who knows
    about number 3?  (7 1/2 years from Carrie)  
    
    Also you know more about what goes on in a second labor, so you can be
    more relaxed to work with your body.  This also can help to speed
    labor.  
    
    Meg

    Hi,
    
    My experience was that the 2nd time was MUCH easier.  With my first, I
    went into labor at 10:00 one morning, and had the baby at 1:00 the
    next afternoon.   Part of the reason it took so long, was because the
    baby was facing "sunny side up", which slows down the dilation.  I also
    experienced multiple-peak contractions, which allowed me almost no
    rest in between contractions.  Because I was so exhausted, my pushing
    was not efficient.  I pushed 3 1/2 hours!
    
    The second time, I felt contractions at 2:00 a.m., got to the hospital
    at 5:00 a.m. and had the baby at 10:30 a.m.   And only 1 hour of
    pushing.
    
    Total labor time (from when I felt 1st contraction):  
          1st - 27 hrs.  2nd - 8 1/2 hrs.
    
    Total pushing time:  1st - 3 1/2 hrs.  2nd - 1 hrs.
    
    Episiotomy:  both times
    
    Recovery:  1st time:  I had fallen down the stairs during my 9th month,
            so between that, and the pushing, my muscles were very sore,
            and I suffered back pain from the fall (baby was fine, though).
            It took months for me to feel "normal" again.
    
               2nd time:  I felt great after 1 month.  Episiotomoy site was
            much more sore the second time, though.  The pain peaked around
            days 3-5 (just after you get home from the hospital!).
    
    In general, the second time for me was much easier both physically and
    emotionally.
    
    Aside from labor time and recovery time, the difference that I can
    remember the most, is that my contractions felt different.  With my
    first, my contractions were text-book.  Starting mild, radiating around
    from the back to the front.  Very menstrual-like.  With the second,
    they were stronger to start with and I had false labor the night
    before.  (Contractions didn't increase in intensity or time.)
    
    Each L & D is different.  Don't worry; you'll do great! 
    Congratulations and lots of luck,
    
    Sheryl 
    
          

    Hello,
    
    Have you heard about a TENS or microTENS machine for pain relief?
    It can be used for backache, and also during labour.
    
    It's very effective, has no effect on the baby, controlled by
    the mother/partner, and simple to operate. 
    
    It consists of 4 electrode rubber plates that are placed on the lower
    part of the back with plaster, and a wire connection to a matchbox
    sized container which holds a PP9 battery and a dial for adjusting the
    power. There is also an in-line switch for controlling the signal as 
    pulse or continuous. 
    
    It works by encouraging the body to produce its own painkillers.
    Something the body does anyway. Using the machine gives a slight
    tingling sensation. 
    
    You can use this in conjunction with other pain killers. 
    
    For my wife, I connected it up at home in the early stages of the
    labour. She found it very helpful, and continued to use it through the
    whole birth. As the pain increased, she increased the level of pain
    relief. She also used Gas and Air. 
    
    I'm sure that without this my wife would have chosen to use pethadin 
    as well. 
    
    For those who might be in Reading, the Royal Berkshire hospital does
    not currently provide a TENS machine as an option. They can be hired 
    privately at varying costs. I was also told that you have to fit them 
    yourselves as the hospital staff are not allowed to.
    
    Malcolm  

    
    What is a TENS machine?
    Jamd

    re you PS Steven,
    
    >P.S. I was stupid enough to try it myself.  I turned up knobs as far
    >as they can wow did it hurt!!!  But don't worry, at normal setting it
    >feels quite nice.
    
    As a warning to all potential users. This is *not* a TOY. You could 
    cause serious damage if not used as intended, especially if used 
    near the heart.

Re:-2

The midwives at the hospital we used have not been trained in the use of TENS
machines, therefore they will not have anything to do with them, and as a side
effect they do not have spare pads, gel, etc.

We knew the battery was ok, because when the electode was pressed onto Jane's
skin it would work again.


Re:-1

Yeah Ok, with hindsight it was a stupid thing to do, not the actual trying you
understand but turning it up to its maximum.  If this is the only stupid thing
I do in my life I'll be lucky :-)


Cheers

Steven

    	Hmmm,

    	I own a tens unit back when I had to be hooked up to one 24 hours a
    day for months at a time, the insurance company felt it was cheaper to
    buy it for me than it was to keep renting it out (I also own an EMS
    unit for muscle atrophy which I still should be using but I find so
    many excuses not to put it on).

    	As far as the TENS, it does not hurt but it does feel different,
    I've tried to explain it as 10,000 ants walking across your skin.

    	Besides stimulating those endorphins, it also discharges a small
    electrical current that essentially confuses the nerve endings into
    aborting the pain signal. It can be very effective, however if you have
    nerve damage in the area to begin with, it could backfire and actually
    intensify the pain.

    	It works differently for each person, some people like me can wear
    it for long periods of time and not have it lose its potency. Others
    can only wear it for a few hours at a time and still others can wear it
    for a bit, take it off and have a "lasting" effect for a few hours.

    	One little humorous sidenote is that after one of my operations, I
    flew down to NC, to stay with my parents during my convalescence. I was
    covered in bandages, on crutches and hooked up to a TENS machine (the
    electrodes went under my bandages). I was escorted to a room at the
    airport where I had to remove the TENS unit and demonstrate to them
    that it was not a bomb (this was a few years ago when the major
    airports were really paranoid). Between the TENS unit and the hardware
    in my leg (that set off the metal detector) I was a pretty interesting
    sight!

    				Wendy

    Does anyone know if this method "TENS" is available in FRANCE?
    thanks,
    Carol

    
    I am due for my second baby at the end of June.  Since I had back
    labor with Nicholas (he will be 16 mos. when this baby is born,
    wish me luck!) is it more probable for me to have back labor
    again this time around?  I heard that it's very common, once you've
    already had back labor.  This is my greatest fear, going through
    back labor again.  I'm so afraid that I won't be able to do it
    and that i'll "lost it".  Probably because I know now how much it
    hurts and with Nicholas I had no idea if it would get better or worse.
    
    Also, I heard that the hospital will let you stay 1 extra day if
    you have other little ones at home so you can get some sleep if
    that's what you want.  My HMO (MTHP) is 24 hours for regular birth
    and 36 hours for c-section.  When I had Nicholas, because I went
    through a lot, I went in on Friday morning and left on Monday nite
    and they asked me if I wanted to stay until Tuesday morning but I
    said "no".  
    
    Hopefully the 2nd baby will be a quicker and easier labor.  I
    asked my mid-wife if there was any way they could take me a little
    early (I asked for a c-section 2 weeks before the due date.  they
    laughed. ;-)) because I was 2 weeks late and Nicholas was the
    size of a 3 month old when I delivered him.  The mid-wife said that
    after 36 weeks of pregnancy, the baby gains 1/2 lb. a week and
    she said that they'd try to save me a pound and hopefully i'll
    have only a 8 or 9 lb baby this time.  The way they will do this
    is to induce me but she said if the cervix isn't ready then they
    can induce you until the cows come home and nothing will happen.
    Just have to wait and see, I guess.
    
    Has anyone had back labor and then had another baby with no back
    labor?
    
    Thanks,
    Chris

    I had back labor for both of my children - the labor was much more
    intense but of shorter duration the second time around.
    
    The doctor who sat my labor and delivered my second son commented that
    back labor is not so much a result of the child's position. She asked
    if I typically have lower back menstrual cramps, which I do, and said
    that she's found that typically that is a reason for back labor. Baby's
    position may _add_ to it, but is not soley the reason.
    
    I stood in the shower for over an hour during my second labor and the
    back labor wasn't nearly as unbearable.  The shower also speeded up my
    labor greatly.
    
    Best of luck,
    

    
    	Well I haven't had back labor but it looks like we've been talking
    to the same midwife at MTHP because I am also due with my second and my
    first will be 17 months old when the second is born.
    
    	I had a heck of a time with labor and after being induced for 17
    hours and pushing for 2 and 1/2 hours gave birth to a toddler. (he was
    also two weeks late)
    
    	I have fears of going through that again. And I know it's coming
    because they've told me that if I gave birth right now 2 1/2 months
    early, the baby would weigh roughly 6 pounds. Not a very fun statistic.
    Apparently this baby is specing out to be larger than the first. sigh.
    
    	Knowing that it was tough last time and knowing that this will also
    be a large baby, they have told me that if I am late they will consider
    inducing me after one week instead of two. My thinking is at that
    point, it's probably too late, and the extra weight is really not going
    to make the difference.
    
    	All I'm doing is trying my best to be prepared, what ever will come
    will come and whatever will happen will happen, there's not a heck of a
    lot I can do about it now anyway.
    
    
			Wendy

    
    re: 51
    
    I wonder in your (and mine too, I had been thinking about this)
    situtation when the mid-wife knows the baby is going to be really
    big and your previous birth experience was difficult would they
    consider a c-section?  I know that mid-wife's can't do c-sections
    and only the dtr's can.  I was thinking about going to a dtr this
    time around thinking that I may/should have a c-section and that
    by going to the mid-wife, most likely it would be out of the question.
    
    I know that some dtr's do c-sections when it really isn't necessary.
    Nicholas was so big and I had such a hard time pushing him out
    that he had a bowl movement from fetal stress and was in the 
    advance care nursery for 5 days.  I just think it would be safer
    for me to have (or at least consider) a c-section.  I told one
    of the mid-wives this and I didn't really get an answer (I'll
    be talking to another mid-wife in a couple of weeks about it).
    I'm just thinking that it's more than likely this baby will be
    bigger than Nicholas, who was 9lbs. 15 oz. and 22 1/2 inches long.
    
    Am I being too much of a worrier and making a mountain out
    of a mole hill?
    
    Chris

Chris,
	Request an appointment with a doctor and get a 
second opinion from him.  He would have a lot more 
training than the midwives and would bring a different 
point of view on the situation.  If he recommends
a C-section there should be no trouble switching
you to his care.

........................beth

    
    
    	I don't know, as hard as my delivery was (mine was 9.11) I think
    that I have heard enough horror stories about c-sections that I would
    still prefer to go it on my own. However, having big babies as we seem 
    to do, I think that we have to keep the possibility of c-sections in 
    mind and not be upset if it is required.
    
	The midwives know that this baby will be big and they are prepared
    for a big one (as much as one can be prepared) but they have also
    assured me that with having such a large first one, the second will be
    easier. They have even said that if I am induced the second labor would
    probably not go as long.
    
    	I've said this in other notes but for me, I'm no martyr. having
    large babies is very painful and hard on my body. If I feel that I need
    assistance (in the form of medication or anesthesthia) I will not
    hesitate to ask for it and I know that the midwives would not hesitate
    to give it to me. They tend to be granola in theory but I have also
    realized that they are realists who don't want to see anyone in undue
    pain.
    
    			Wendy
    

	I had back labor with my first baby.  My second delivery was very
	quick ( I woke up in pain at 1 AM and she was born at 3 AM).  The
	baby was larger but the delivery was much easier.

	My children are 13 months apart.  They were born at Lawrence General
	Hospital.  Having a young child at home did not change the length
	of my hospital stay.  I stayed 2 nights both times.

 	Good luck with your 16 month spaced children.  Mine are now 2 and 3
	and they are wonderful.

	Elizabeth

    I had back labor with both of my kids, but the midwife who assisted at
    Carrie's delivery had some good tricks for reducing the pressure on my
    back that the nurses didn't use when I had Lolita.  she suggested
    trying hands and kness for a while which does relieve a major amount of
    pressure, and when my arms wore out, she had Frank provide
    counter-pressure by pushing on my back where I felt pressure.  It
    really did work.  I delivered on my side which also helped keep the
    pressure off and Frank could get his hands on my lower back and push
    back, hard.  I think I wore him out, judging from some of the pictures
    of his face.  
    
    I imagine that this one will probably involve back labor as well, and
    have been trying to build a little more endurance in my shoulder
    muscles so I can spen more time on my hands and knees this time, and
    will still plan on a side delivery for my comforts sake.
    
    Meg 

    I am looking for advice about pain relief during delivery. I have
    read the previous notes. I am living in France where the Epidural seems
    to be the most commonly used. Has anyone tried other methods like:
    Gas, Relaxation, yoga ... ??
    I have been practicing yoga, relaxation, and child birth preparation 
    and I wanted to wait to make the decision about an epidural based on
    the pain during delivery, but my doctor says that I must decide in
    advance if I want the epidural or not. This is my 1st baby, any advice?
    thanks,
    Carol

    
    You have to make the decision about the epidural now?? I know when I
    was pregnant, I had to meet with the anesthesiologist (sp?) and he told
    me all about epidurals and spinals. I then had to decide if I would
    want an epidural at all and sign all the appropriate paperwork. This
    did not mean that I would definitely have an epidural, but that if I
    decided during labor that I wanted one all the paperwork was done. This
    makes things easier for the hospital and quicker for the patient to get
    the epidural when wanted/needed. So find out if you say you want an
    epidural now means you will have to have one or that you can have one
    if you want one.
    
    Patty

    I used relaxation techniques exclusively with both of my children 
    and plan to use them this time as well.  Also having a partner doing
    massage where needed, (I have back labor) and knowing where I was at as
    far as progress made it easier during the minutes when things got rocky
    during transition and I was starting to lose myself.  Having my midwife
    point out between contractions that Carrie was almost there gave me the
    energy and concentration to get back into the swing, until it was
    pushing time, and then I was working too hard to care.  I use a cross
    between Bradley and Spritual Midwifery birth techniques to make
    a birthing experience, if not fun, then tolerable.  
    
    I realize that birthing methods and whether or not to go with
    anesthesia are almost religious questions with some people.  I would
    suggest that you ask for ALL potential complications as well as the
    benefits of any anesthesia you may choose.  They are often glossed
    over, unless something goes wrong and a good birth is turned into an
    emergency due to you or your baby's reaction to the medication used. 
    
    Meg

    
    
    I had an "unplanned" epidural.  I planned on having natural childbirth
    without any medication (it was my first baby also).  I ended up needing
    some pain relief and received an epidural.  I didn't request this
    prior to the labor and I didn't sign any papers before or after getting
    the epidural.  The anesthesiologist came down right away and gave me
    the epidural.  He even came down again because the epidural was wearing
    off after 5 minutes of administrating it.  I had no side affects at
    all (some do and some don't) and would do it again if I had to.
    
    I would suggest just talking to your doctor or midwife about the
    pro's and con's (and what he/she would recommend) of the pain relief
    that is offered.
    
    Taking a warm shower/bath (some hospitals have hottubs) and having
    someone to massage where it hurts as previously suggest is a big
    help.  Who knows, you may need no pain medication at all, a lot
    of people don't.
    
    
    p.s. On another note, I've noticed a lot of women recently having
         back labor.  I didn't hear of it until I had it.  Not that
         I wish that on anyone but it makes me feel a little better
         that others are in the same boat as me.  I just hope I can
         do it for this baby.  I'd really like not to have any medication
         this time.  Only time will tell! :-)

    re .60
    
    Remeber that the second time through you are much more knowledgable on
    what goes on through L & D and that you know there is an end to the
    contractions.  The first time through, I really didn't think I was
    going to survive.  The second time I could giggle between contractions
    and tease Frank who had never been through a birth before.  During
    contractions  in transition was a different story, but I also knes they
    would stop eventually and that the more open I was to them the sooner 
    they would be over.
    
    I do have a midwaife who when I felt I was going to lose it and started
    curling up my toes, reminded me that loose feet make for a loose birth
    canal, and that instead of making squeaky noises, to just say "oh this
    feels so good!"  what I said to her isn't suitable for notes, but it
    did get me back to focusing on getting Carrie out, instead of being
    miserable.
    
    Meg      

    Having to decide on an epidural ahead of time seems an unwise practice.
    If you say you definitely want one and then labor progresses quickly,
    giving the epidural would be unecessary.  My sister-in-law wanted one
    with her second after having one with her first, but the second came
    so fast there was no need for it.
    
    If you say you don't want one, then what if your labor gets really bad.
    Before I went into labor I did not want an epidural and thought that
    if I needed some pain relief I would ask for Demerol.  But, I had back
    labor and contractions that lasted 2-3 minutes with no breaks between
    them.  The next contraction began as soon as the last one ended.  After
    Three hours of that I said "UNCLE" and asked for the epidural.  I know
    that I never would have agreed to one before hand, but now that it's
    over I'm glad I had that option.
    
    Since labor is so unpredictable, I think its wise to keep all
    possibilities open and decide as you go.
    
    Mary

    Has anyone ever heard of, or experienced, a sprained pelvis after
    delivery.  This happened to me after I gave birth to my daughter in
    October.  I was extremely stiff and sore after delivery and I thought
    it was from pushing for so long, but as I tried to roll over onto my
    side that night it felt as if my bones were banging together.  They
    literally were.  The doctor explained it to me as the glue that holds
    the pelvis together, and in turn lets it stretch during delivery,
    didn't pull my pelvis back together.  He told me my hips were actually
    floating.  There wasn't anything they could do to help me with the pain
    and I couldn't hardly lift my legs to walk.  The only way I could get
    around for the first three days was to walk backwards.  Because you
    don't have to lift your leg to move it forward.  It was a good month
    before I could walk with my legs together normally and about eight
    weeks before the stiffness finally left.  
    
    I was really disappointed when this happened, and I felt a little
    strange explaining it to people because no one had ever heard of it and
    they would give me strange looks as if spraining your pelvis wasn't
    possible.
    
    So I thought I would ask the people in this community if you have ever
    heard of or experienced this.  And if you have, did it happen again
    with following deliveries?
    
    Thanks for any info,
    
    Andrea

    Andrea,
    
    IO have heard of this, but it hasn't happened to me (thank god).  
    
    I wind up with tailbone and sacral problems after a delivery but the
    chiropractor can usually zap me back into place in a few visits.  
    
    Meg

    Hi Andrea,
    
    I have never heard of it either.  With my first child, I complained
    thru my whole pregnancy about my tailbone hurting and the dr. said
    the baby must be sitting on it.
    
    Well, during labor/delivery, the dr. came in and checked me, said I
    would be a while longer and left the room.  The door, no sooner shut
    and the nurse heard a snap and my son decided to enter the world!
    The nurse had to chase down the dr.  
    
    In the end, the dr. said my son was "stuck" on my tailbone and that
    he broke it.
    
    It still bothers me, if I sit or stand for too long.  I am now 10
    weeks pregnant with my 3rd and it's already bothering me!
    
    Good luck!

    

    	I might have to rethink my previous replies here.

    	last week I slipped on the ice and ended up going into premature
    labor. With medication (injections and oral) we were able to stop the
    contractions (at one point they were 2-3 minutes apart) but I have to
    be very careful for the next few weeks.

    	One thing that we did find out is that this baby is measuring *5*
    weeks ahead of the "normal" charts. This of course means that with an
    estimated 7 weeks to go, this could potentially be one whopper of a
    baby.
    	
    	I talked to my mother last night, trying to find out where these
    big babies are coming from and she said that my grandmother claims that
    my father weighed 15 pounds at birth, as there is no record of this, it
    is clearly debatable, however, what is clear is that I was the heaviest
    of my brothers and sisters at birth weighing in at either 10.5 or 10.11
    (there seems to be some confusion about that weight as well).

    	I believe that the midwives are still going to go for a vaginal
    birth but I am definitely starting to be more concerned about how
    things will turn out. I DO NOT want a c-section but on the other hand I
    also DO NOT want a body that is destroyed (which Spencer came very
    close to doing already).

    	Nothing much I can do about things except, wait and see, but boy,
    I'll be glad when this is over (wouldn't a nice petite baby be a joy in
    our house?)

    					Wendy 

    
    	Wendy, so sorry to hear about your fall, but glad to hear you
    	and the baby are doing okay...
    
    	Will be thinking of you in the next few weeks...
    	
    	Good Luck on an "easier" delivery!
    
    	Chris
    

    
    Wow, glad to hear that things are okay..that's scary.
    
    Would the midwife consider inducing you say 1 or two weeks before
    your due date (if the cervix is favorable) since they know that
    this is definately a big baby?
    
    I have a feeling I'm in the same boat as you (having a big baby and
    am pregnant again).  I'm 16 weeks now and so far I haven't gained
    any weight (actually lost 7 lbs due to a bad sinus infection) but
    I gained most of my weight in the 9th month and the 2 weeks that
    I was overdue with Nicholas.
    
    The midwife told me that from 36 weeks and on, the baby gains
    1/2 lb a week.  Gee, that made me feel a whole lot better ;-)
    
    Good luck.  I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.  
    
    -Chris

    Yes, I was induced a week early.
    Everything was favourable (although baby wasn't really engaged when
    we started), she was 9lb 3.5oz.
    The special circumstances here was that I had had several tests in the 
    weeks before (ultrasounds, non-stress tests) and my doctor wanted very
    much to deliver this baby since my first baby (stillborn) was her first
    stillbirth as a doctor and she was determined to be there when I 
    delivered again.
    However, she was 26 weeks pregnant with twins and her insurance was
    going to be terminated 2 days later - she wasn't going to be able to
    deliver babies after that weekend (Her OB said to go home and try 
    not to go into labour).
    So, with permission of the senior OB on call that day I was induced.
    
    Final delivery scene: Monica starting to push, but nurses say: wait
    a minute -- Doctor, are you okay sitting here? is this okay for
    you? do you want a glass of water? Then of course there was all of 
    the confusion because this was the very first weekend the new 
    delivery wing was open, and these weekend shift nurses had not been
    briefed on where everything was stored. If I wasn't so *uncomfortable*
    I would have had a very good laugh at the scene! 
    
    Monica

    Several months ago I was working out in the gym with a pully system
    around my ankle.  The next day I had pain similar to yours.  After 3
    days of being completely unable to raise or lower my right leg, I went
    to the doctor.  He explained I had a sprained the illiac joint
    (spelling probably close).  He explained that the pelvis is made in
    three section, each one held together by a thin film of muscle tissue.
    The sections are so close that the pelvis looks like one unit.  I had
    inadvertently separate the joint on my right side from the repeated
    action of swinging my leg with the weights on it.  He also said he had
    seen it once or twice in women right after childbirth.  The only
    treatment was rest and anti-inflamatory drugs.  I was feeling much
    better after 2 days of bed rest and ketoprophen (super ibuprophen,
    prescription only).
    Sarah

    	I'm not sure that inducing earlier than one week late is an option
    in my case. First of all, the midwives don't really believe in it (and
    as it can play havoc with the mother's body, I'd like to avoid any
    induction again). Secondly, there is another consideration, at my seven
    month checkup they did routine blood work but no one notified me that
    the iron results were extremely low, so I didn't find out until my
    *eighth* month checkup that I was severely anemic (explains why I feel
    like fainting all of the time). I'm taking double the iron dosages in
    an attempt to catch up in time for the delivery.

    	So if I deliver early, it's not so good either for the baby or for
    me (there was mention that a transfusion might be needed). But if I and
    the baby wait the full time, it looks like things could get rough.

    	In any event, this will certainly be interesting.

    	I have an appointment with the midwife this afternoon and I'm going
    to talk to her about some of my concerns, I'll let you know what she
    says.


    				Wendy

    
    
    	Wendy, I know you already had a big baby, and this note probably
    won't help much, but when I was pregnant, I consistently measured much
    bigger.  At my 20 week checkup, I think I measured 27-28 weeks!  I was
    panic stricken - I figured if that rate continuted, I'd give birth to
    an elephant!
    
    	I gradually "caught up" to myself.  By the last month, I was four
    or five weeks ahead, but by my due date, I was only a week ahead.
    My baby wasn't quite as big as your Spencer, though, (a small 9lb 4oz)
    but maybe, just MAYBE you won't be quite as ahead when the time comes. 
    But this is only one story, and although big babies run in my family,
    they're not quite as big as what you're talking about.
    
    	At any rate, GOOD LUCK with the delivery.  Big babies sure are
    tough on the ol' body.
    
    	-Justine
    

    
    
    	I saw the midwife yesterday and basically her advice is to wait and
    see. It's still too early to do anything definitive and we really won't
    know what to do until the time comes anyway.
    
    	Of course it's easier for her to tell me to not worry than it is
    for me to follow that advice but I'll just have to proceed knowing that
    people are aware of the situation and will take the appropriate
    measures when necessary.
    
    				Wendy

    
    
    When I was pregnant with my son and eventually went into labor,
    my water did not break and the mid-wife broke my water in the
    hospital.  I am pregnant with my 2nd and was wondering if the
    same thing would happen again (with my water not breaking) and
    if anyone had any experiences with their water breaking for
    one child and not for another or if there is a pattern.
    
    Thanks,
    Chris

    
    My mom had 4 kids.  With child 1 & 3, water broke.  With 2 & 4
    water didn't break. 
    
    Past experience doesn't help....

    Dr. had to break water for both my babies.  Second delivery I was
    9 cm dialated and still the Dr. had to break water.   Both babies were
    born before their due date and I never thought to ask the Dr. about
    the water breaking the second time....
    

    
    
    re. 67
    
    Wendy,
    
    How are things going with your final weeks of pregnancy?  Did they give
    you another ultrasound to see how big the baby is?  You must be getting
    ready to go out on maternity leave soon.
    
    I hope that this labor and delivery is much easier than your last
    (and the baby is smaller!).
    
    Keep us posted!
    Chris

    Did we discuss the StrepB infection; a good friend of
    mine here at work has found she has this, and she is due
    in a week - I wanted to read up on what, if anything was
    discussed here about it.
    
    Monica

    	No I have not had another ultrasound, and as I still have 5 1/2
    weeks to go, it would still be too early to make any kind of a decision
    anyway. (or at least that is what they are telling me - midwives are
    firm believers in at least trying it first)

    	Catch me on one day and I'll tell you that I would very willingly
    go through with a C-section. (even though I've never had one)

    	Catch me on another day and I'll tell you that no matter what, I'd
     rather try for a vaginal delivery. (although I am starting to have
    minor panic attacks when I think of going through what I went through
    with Spencer again).

    	Starting next week, I have weekly appointments with the midwives.
    Everyone is aware of the situation and no one is interested in heroics.
    I guess that unless I hear otherwise, we'll proceed with the original
    plan and see what happens. One thing that is definite is that if I am
    late again, the latest they will let me go is one week past the due
    date. 

    	That of course means that at most, in 6 1/2 weeks we will have a
    new little (big) member of our family.

    	We've been so busy through this pregnancy that it hasn't really
    hit us that having the baby is so close (with the premature labor that
    I already had, the baby could potentially come at anytime).

    	I've packed the bag for the new baby (actually we know what it is,
    but I think that I'll save the surprise for when Marc posts the
    announcement ;-)) and believe it or not, I've packed a 6 month outfit
    (which is what Spencer wore at birth) and a *12* month outfit. It's
    hard to remember Spencer ever being that small (And that was just 16
    months ago!)

    	Thanks for the support (both on and off line) and I'll keep you
    posted for as long as I can on how things are progressing. (and when I
    can no longer post, I'm sure that Marc will have an entry or two)

    				Wendy

    
    
    re. 78
    
    Monica,
    
    There is a topic on Strep B in V3 of the Parenting notesfile.  It's
    topic 528 and has quite a few replies and hopefully it can give
    you some info. on it.
    
    re. 79
    
    Wendy,
    
    Glad to hear everything is going well so far.  You are in good
    hands with the mid-wife's.  Sue Reilly delivered (she did most
    of the work and then the dtr. came in and took over) Nicholas
    and I never doubted her competence once.  Hang in there, it's
    almost over! :-)  The fun has just begun!
    
    
    -chris

Wendy,


For what it's worth, when carrying my second child,
I asked Sue Riley (the midwife) if it's true that
second babies are bigger than first babies and if she
could guess how big the baby would be.  (I was about
35 weeks at that point).

Her response was that sometimes 2nd babies are bigger,
and that my 2nd would probably weigh someplace between
5 and 10 pounds.  (In other words, she didn't want to
hazard a guess).

My first was 6 lbs 4 oz, and the second was 8lbs 6 oz.
(Both girls).  Labor was 3.5 hours for the first and
4.5 hours for the second.  I needed an episiotomy for
the first, but not for the second.  It took less pushes
(4) to get the second one out than the first (6 pushes).

I found the second labor to be more difficult, but I
believe that was due to *my* attitude, not the
size of the baby.  On paper, the second was easier to
deliver than the first one.  But mentally, I found it
harder.

My advice would be to relax and try to be flexible about
what happens.  I found that harder to do with the second
delivery, because I knew more of what I was in for, but
it still helps to stay loose and relaxed.

Good luck,

Pat

    I have three children -- my first labor/delivery was HORRIBLE.  My son
    was born on his due date.  Needless to say, when I was pregnant with my
    daughter I was scared to death because I knew what I was in for.  Lucky
    for me I went into labor 2 1/2 weeks early.  This time it was a breeze. 
    I had figured I was having false labor but was alread 7cm dialated.  I
    had no real pain, when the dr. said he'd be back in about an hour to
    deliver I thought who's this guy kidding, where's all the excrutiating
    pain!  Well within and hour I delivered with just a few sharp pains. 
    The afterbirth pains were quite painful though.  Third pregnancy I
    still was apprehensive since it had been 6 years and also the Dr. said
    this was going to be one big baby (which he wasn't).  Labor and delivery
    was quick.  My first was 7.13 second was 7.11 and third weigned in at
    7.3.
    My waters had to be broken with all three

For the potential benefit of future readers, I have to add my labor
& delivery story to this note.  Reading this string, I get the
impression that having a C-section and/or a spinal is one of the
worst things you can be forced to endure.

I don't mean to minimize the experiences of the noters who had
difficulties with these procedures, but I do want to reassure readers
(especially first-time mothers-to-be) that you can have both and still get 
that I-just-had-a-baby high.

At my last checkup, I was 4 cm dilated and the baby was at +2 station.
The doc said that the odds were overwhelming that my bones were large
enough to allow for a vaginal delivery.  I'm sure he was right --
I just happen to be that 1-in-a-million kind of person.  My daughter 
insisted on presenting the area above her left ear.  I pushed in various 
positions to try and dislodge her with no luck.  An emergency C-section was
arranged.  I was relieved because I had little energy left to push, but I
was disappointed that my body continued with labor contractions :-)

The nurse explained what I would feel for an epidural, but the
anaethesiologist gave me a spinal instead.  My husband asked why
and she said that was what she did best.  (She had an absolutely
fantastic bedside manner -- preparing me for everything that would
happen before anything did, draping a warm towel over my shoulders
when I couldn't stop shivering even though I didn't feel cold,
calling down to the nursery to discover the birth stats when the
OR personnel couldn't find one of the instruments !)

I was conscious for the entire operation.  Got to kiss the baby when
she made her appearance, and sent my husband off to the nursery with
her while I got stitched up.  Once I was all set (and the lost instrument
was found), I was rolled back to my room just down the hallway.  I did not
have to lie flat on my back for any length of time (though I did have to
stay in bed!)  She was born around 11 pm, but I didn't get back to the
room until 12:30.  I think we stayed up getting to know each other until 
around 2:30 am.  My husband thinks I was high because of the drugs, but
it just felt like intense excitement to me.

The best part of labor is that you enter a time warp and don't realize
how long everything takes.  I entered the hospital at 3 pm (6 cm dilated),
began pushing around 7:30 pm, had the baby at 11, and back in my room by
12:30.  But I thought that maybe it all took 3 hours.  And I only guessed
3 hours because the childbirth prep class told me that the C-section would
take about an hour.  Unfortunately, that time warp seems to be a permanent
thing.  I can't believe this all happened over 6 months ago...

One other tip:  I thought I would be immune from the I-must-be-inadequate
because-I-had-to-have-a-C-section syndrome.  My attitude all along was that
I wanted to go home with a baby and the method of delivery was irrelevant.
But when those post-baby hormones go wild, you don't know how you're
going to react.  Luckily, my doctor had told me immediately following the
operation that there was nothing I could have done differently to affect
the outcome.  I recall repeating his words to myself many times during
those couple of weeks after giving birth.

    RE: -1
                                            
    Me too!  I had a C-section and spinal (failure to progress and a 10 lbs
    baby) and thought it was a piece of cake.  I've stopped telling folks
    that because one friend (after her C-section/spinal) told me I lied BIG
    TIME!
    
    Everyone is different but I guess the moral is, think positively!

    
    
    Thanks for putting that in Deb!  I still can't get over them "losing"
    one of their instruments in your stomach! UGH!
    
    I feel more relieved when I heard experiences like yours.  Who knows,
    when I go in for #2 in June, I just may need a c-section.  
    
    And believe it or not, I'm more afraid of the Heprin Lock than I am
    of a c-section!  That was the worst.  The nurse didn't know what she
    was doing so that didn't help too much either.
    
    Keeping my fingers crossed for a NON-back labor (I'd also LOOOOVE
    a little girl :)) but I'll take what I get!
    
    Chris

    
    
    	This past weekend I had the flu and got very dehyrated, it took the
    nurses *6* tries of getting the IV in before they gave up and sent me
    home with other medication.
    
    	I can sympathize with your fear of the IV heprin-lock. My arms are
    still black and blue.
    
    					
                                  Wendy

I should have been a little more specific about the "lost" instrument.

It wasn't in me at all -- it was caught in a fold of some fabric somewhere.
Those of you have had a section know that the baby is born within the first
5 minutes or so, then it takes about 45 minutes to sew Mom back up.  My
doctor had just said "Well, looks like I'll have to undo these sutures"
when someone said "I found it!"  I was *so* relieved -- that 45 minutes
was the only part of the labor & delivery process that felt long --
I wanted to be back in my room with my new baby!

BTW, they had trouble with my heparin lock too.  In fact, it failed partway
through the section.  It had taken 2 nurses at least 4 sticks to get the
first lock in me.  (My veins are small and they roll.)  That wonderful
anaesthesiologist was really good with IV needles too -- she had to reach
around machinery to get to me, but she had a regular IV hookup in my hand
in no time, and it didn't hurt at all!

Best of luck in June, Chris!

I found that the heparin lock was VERY painful.  It took 3 nurses 4
tries to get it in correctly.  I don't like being stuck with needles,
but blood samples are a piece of cake compared to that device.  It 
even hurt after they had finally inserted it.  

Are they usually that difficult to get in?  The nurses told me they
had a lot more trouble with my veins than normal, but reading the 
previous notes makes me wonder.

    OK, I give up, what's a heparin lock?
    
    (And I had a C-section too, complete with IV.  I just remember it was
    weird having the IV in the back of my hand.)
    
    Leslie

The heparin lock is an IV waiting to happen :-)

It is a needle stick, and heparin is some kind of blood clotting
medication.  So you have this thing sticking out of your arm,
(though mine was painless once it was inserted) and if you need an IV or 
request Nubane (sp?), it's given to you through the heparin lock.

    
    .83
    
    Thank you for putting this note in. I am another c-section mum who
    feels that the only thing I missed out was the pain of labour :-)
    
    As my transverse breech was only found at my 37 week check-up and I
    have small hips, I opted for a planned section rather than have a trail
    labour with a 80% chance of an emergency section. My biggest fear was
    than labour would start before the planned deliverly date!!
    
    Because of my planned section, I was given a private room (rare in the
    NHS in Britain) which meant I could sleep, have visitors and enjoy the
    baby in private.
    
    I walked into the delivery room, put the Mozart in the tape deck and
    hopped onto the bed for the epidural. I was lucky in that they got it
    perfect first time. The theatre staff explained everything as it
    happened and were wonderful. As Rebecca was lifted out, I reached out
    to touch her. After her initial Agpar (?) checks, she was given to my
    husband to hold while the placenta was cleared up and the sewing
    started. Rebecca was then cleaned and dressed and all 3 of us were in
    the recovery ward within an hour. I was high as a kite for days, so
    pleased with the baby and what my body had done!! Plus I had no
    post-birth tiredness or bruising to "certain areas". The worst part of
    the birth was the catheter for urine while I was immobile. 
    
    Apart from checks on my pain-relief needs as the epidural wore off, the 
    3 of us were left alone as a family. I was giving Rebecca her first feed 
    within 2 hours, was allowed out of bed within 12 hours to walk to the loo 
    and was back in my own room within 22 hours. I came home 4 days after the 
    birth and within a week I could walk about half a mile without resting.  
    
    Some mothers passed comment that I must of missed out on not having a
    baby "properly". Well apart from the need for pain relief after the op 
    (morphine for 36 hours, then paracetamols for a week) and the fact that
    it was difficult to get out of bed/ up from a chair for a week or so,
    what had I missed??!!
    
    Getting back to normal can be difficult as you cannot lift anything heavy 
    or drive (in the UK for 6 weeks) for a while, you just have to make sure
    someone can help if needed. I used to take the washing out to dry in 2
    loads rather than one and arrange lifts as required.
    
    After hearing so many horror stories of labours going on for days and
    all the pain invloved, I'd take a c-section any day!!
    
    So if you are faced with a c-section, I hope it's as easy and pleasant
    experience as mine was. Don't put up with any nonsense about "missing
    something". The only things that matter are  having a healthy baby and a 
    rested and happy mother!!  
    
                     Celia
    
    

    OK, I've had LOTS of experiences with "Hep-loks"; mine from several
    surgeries, AJ with literally dozens, and my husband's who has great
    veins for IV's, but his veins "Roll" or move just as the needle
    (catheter is the more proper terms FYI), as well as working as an EMT
    for an ambulance service.  A couple things I can add to
    this, A warm moist towel over the proposed site before the insert the 
    needle will sometimes make it easier to get and find the vein.  Heparin, 
    a blood thinner has to be injected in every so many hours to keep a clot
    from forming at the end of the hep-lok, several of mine have been
    preceeded by a small injection of a numbing agent, which makes the IV
    insertion more pleasant.  On a long term basis most hospitals have a
    rule that say the Hep-lock MUST be removed and reinserted every three
    days - OUCH!!  When I delivered AJ my heplok had a problem only a few hours
    after delivery, it had to be pulled and reinserted.  The nursing
    supervisor gave up after three unsuccessful attempts.  She had to get
    someone else to do any further attempts.  She said that if she were to
    stick me more than 3 times it would be considered ABUSE!  Strange
    reasoning, considering it was something like 3 a.m. and the hospital
    had no fomal IV nurse or team.  I think it was left out until the day
    shift and the IV nurse arrived after 7 a.m.  I had had a c-section and
    the doctor was only allowing me ice chips at that point so it was
    needed.
    
    Was it Wendy who had a flu?  There are a couple situations where
    finding a vein is difficult, in many cases if you're dehydrated, as in
    the flu, veins won't be as visible or able to puff up even with the
    tournequet, the other would be in the case of low blood pressure
    whether it's just naturally low or induced by some other problem.
    
    lyn
    

    To add a little more ... I have 2 children, and had them both by
    c-section.  The first with a spinal, the second with an epidural.  If I
    had another, I'd go with the spinal, NO questions asked!!  The epidural
    didn't seem to be effective for me, and even the Drs were surprised at
    how "un-numb" I was when they finished.  The PAIN was unbelievable. 
    Also, the epidural was more uncomfortable, because they leave the
    needle in your back so you have to lay a little cock-eyed.  The spinal,
    they just shot me up and let me lay back down.  
    
    I would say I was equally groggy after both of them.  The first
    probably more because of the medication, the second because of the
    exhaustion of the pain of it all.  In both cases I was allowed to see
    the baby.  Since I'm diabetic, they both needed to go to the I.C.
    nursery "asap", so we didn't have a lot of time together initially. 
    When they were born, I didn't feel like I had missed anything by not
    having natural childbirth.  However, as the years go by now (my
    youngest is 5), I can't help wondering and wishing I had at least
    TRIED.  Both pregnancies were planned c-sections because they were
    delievered early because of my diabetes.
    
    Looking back on it now, if I had to offer advice, I'd say to give the
    natural a TRY, and if that doesn't work, the c-section is nothing to be
    afraid of.  I think they kept me in bed for ~12 hours, but I was pretty
    tired anyway, so it wasn't bad.
    
    If you DO have a c-section, one thing to remember .... they won't let
    you go home till you have a bowel movement.  The pain killers they
    usually give are constipating, so if you take them "regularly", you may
    never be able to "perform your duties" ... and the distention from
    constipation, on a c-section scar is more pain than you could imagine! 
    A quick (oral) laxative, and things got going again.  Also, I requested
    steri-strips (which is like tape, as opposed to stitches, for the
    external scar), and it healed wonderfully - you really can BARELY see
    anything at all.

    I had an epidural for my C-section and it was highly effective.  The
    thought of experiencing any pain during the procedure is very scary. 
    Anyway, I don't know if you can generalize from -1's experience - maybe
    there was a problem with this particular anesthesia or its application. 
    Also, I had no pain at the incision.  
    
    Oh, in your hospital bag, be sure to include some panties (UK -
    knickers) that go up to your waist.  I had bikini panties and it didn't
    occur to me that the elastic would sit right on top of the scar!
    
    Laura

    I had an epidural for my c-section and a VBAc for the second.  I didn't
    miss anything in the C-section.  I could "feel" things but they didn't
    hurt.  (local anesthetics have a hard time doing anything on me so they
    had to give me a lot).
    
    RE .-1: The hospital where I had my children asks us to bring
    disposable panties.  These are large paper panties that you then throw
    away.  I thought they were great.
    
    Since I had a rather hard delivery with the C-section, I didn't have to
    get out of bed for several days (rather I COULDN'T get out of bed :-) 
    Similarly with my VBAC.  Did a great job of carrying the babies, just
    had some problems getting 'em out :-)
    
    I've never hear of anyone having a "spinal" over here.
    
    ccb

    
    If you have a c-section, remember to pack some hi-bran biscuits/nibble
    bars in order to "get you going afterwards". I was eating several of
    these per day to counter-act my hospital's idea of a veggie diet -
    cheese omelettes!! Once I had gone, I was allowed home :-)
    
    The NCT (in the UK) do wonderful mesh knickers that sit high on the 
    waist (or where your waist will reappear in several weeks) which are 
    open enough to allow air to stiches (section or "other areas") yet tight 
    enough fitting to hold a maternity pad in place. They are the most
    unsexy items I have ever seen, but were the only knickers I could wear
    for the first 2 weeks or so after the birth. 
    
    Celia
     
    

I had a c-section with epidural for the twins and had no pain. I had clips on 
the scar and it's very low down, but it was invisible 3 months after the babies
were born. I was walking about 3 days later.

I would second the suggestion of "large knickers" (preferably soft cotton) so 
that the scar isn't irritated.

I also took the homeopathic remedy arnica (which prevents bruising and aids 
healing), and I'm sure this helped. For example I usually bruise easily but there
was no mark where the drip catheter was inserted into my hand.

Judith.

 

    >>healing), and I'm sure this helped. For example I usually bruise easily
    >>but there was no mark where the drip catheter was inserted into my
    >>hand.
    
    Impressive. I still have the scars from the drips (and the bruises were
    almost the worst thing about the deliveries!) for both deliveries (march 
    1991 and may 1992) 
    
    Monica

    
    
    I am due with out second on May 15th, and wondered with a second
    pregnancy when did you notice the baby dropping?  
    
    I carried very low in my first pregnancy - so I never really
    noticed her dropping.  Actually, I don't think it was until I was in
    the hospital that we could see a difference.  But with this one I am 
    carrying much higher so along with that I am having difficutly breathing 
    along with all the other things associated with carring high.  So 
    needless-to-say, I am anxious for this baby to move on down.
    
    	Robin

    My daugther was born last May 15th (my second child).  I though 
    she dropped around 2 weeks before delivery but the Dr. said "you
    don't drop with 2nd babies, only the first one drops".  I though
    that was strange.  I know that she just seemed lower than before,
    with my son, I felt him drop down into position, what a feeling!,
    wasn't the same with my second.  I carried high with my first and
    lower with my second.  Seems like so long ago... Best of luck to 
    you, Sandy
    

Our second daughter was born February 26th, my wife dropped a couple of days 
before.  My first daughter (turned 2 on Jan. 19th) didn't drop at all.  

Michael

    
    
    That's kinda the reason I entered this.  Our child birth instructor
    said second babies don't drop, but when I went to see our mid-wife the
    other day she made a comment that the baby is still way up there.  So I
    wasn't sure which was true -- I leaned more towards what the mid-wife
    said.  I guess I'll just have to wait and see.
    
    
    	Thanks

    Many of the pregnancy reference books say that first babies typically
    drop 2-4 weeks before delivery while second and subsequent babies often
    don't drop til during labor.
    
    For me, I carried my first son very low the entire pregnancy; for the
    second, I felt like I carried him between my knees :-)
    

    I am due May 9 and have just dropped a bit in the past week or so. 
    Like you I carried a bit high for awhile and had severe rib pain.  I
    could tell when I dropped a bit cause the rib pain is mild now but my
    hip joints are killing me when I walk.  
    
    I too read that with the first you drop earlier (but I carried low
    anyway) and with the second you drop maybe a week or so before.  We'll
    see.
    
    Michelle
    

    Michelle, good luck and hope you get your bundle for Mother's Day!
    (Charlotte was born on the 9th, which was a day before Mother's day
    last year, so we will be celebrating ON mother's day this year)
    
    thinking of you!
    Monica

    	Hi guys, I'm back! (don't know if this is the best note in which to
    announce this or not). We are all getting used to Griffin (who is
    another mellow baby just like his brother) and things are hectic but
    fun.

    	Anyway, I have lots to tell you. As many of you know I went out on
    STD two weeks early because my knees decided that they just could not
    tolerate the pregnancy anymore. The weight gain was moderate being at
    total of 30 pounds with 7.5 of that being added the last week!

    	I ended up following the exact same route that I did with Spencer.

	On March 14th I was admitted to the hospital for 18 hours while
    they monitored my contractions. I stopped dilating at 3 cm. and so
    they sent me home with some medication and told me to rest and that the
    contractions would get stronger.

    	Well they didn't. For the next 10 days I had a contraction every
    2-5 minutes with very little progress. (this is now 10 days past the
    due date). I went back to the hospital after a few days of this and
    again, after monitoring the contractions they sent me home again.

    	On the 11th post term day I was scheduled to be induced but when I
    got to the hospital I was 6 cm dilated and they (the midwife who
    delivered Spencer) decided to break my water and hope that that would
    do the trick. With second babies once the water is broken, the baby
    should come out in just a few hours. Nine hours later Griffin was born.
    (I was told that if they had not broken my water it was very likely
    that I would have been in labor for a few more days).

    	The delivery was a breeze (even though he weighed in at 10.2. It
    was much easier than Spencer's birth. BUT (and that is a big but) I
    took full advantage of meds and ended up having two injections and an
    epidural.

    	I only pushed for one hour (I was happy to take that after pushing
    for 2.5 hours with Spencer) and although I did not need an episiotomy I
    did have a tear that required some stitching.

    	So the birth was easy and very enjoyable, we were making jokes up
    until the very end.

    	The following week was hell.

    	Because the baby was so big my uterus did not clamp down and so I
    hemorrhaged and had to be on oral pitocin for the NEXT FULL WEEK.
    Griffin tore my abdominal muscle and you could feel my intestines
    through the tear. (this really grossed Marc out). Because of the muscle
    tear, the contractions from the medication and from nursing, and
    general weakness from the delivery and loss of blood my body was not
    very strong and my next complication was a uterine infection. I had to
    be on narcotics for the week following delivery to control the
    discomfort.

    	Even so, about 1.5 weeks after the delivery I was fine (we're even
    talking about a third child at some distant point).

    	I forget who it is that is out there that is concerned about having
    another large baby (hope that you haven't gone out on leave yet). But I
    had much the same concerns that you did and only seven weeks after
    Griffin's birth I can definitely say that we will be having another
    (just not right away). It's tough but the nurses have special
    precautions for the mother of any child that weighs in at over 10
    pounds. for example:

    	I was sent to a special room that was quieter so that I could rest.

    	They didn't wait for me to ask for meds but rather would remind me
    that it was getting near time so that I wouldn't get too uncomfortable.

    	I was assigned pretty much a private nurse.

    	I received two injections of a pitocin like drug after I delivered
    to help the uterus clamp down (I believe that was standard).

    	Even with all of those "complications" I still left the hospital 24
    hours after Griffin had been born, although in hindsight it was
    probably a little too early but Spencer was having a rough time
    missing mommy and mommy was having a rough time missing Spencer.

    	Initially Griffin's temp was a little low so they kept him in a
    warmer for the first few hours but from then on he was with me the
    whole time. He's a wonderful little (big) baby who is already wearing
    12-18 month clothing (looks like he'll be even bigger than Spencer who
    at 1.5 is wearing size 6-8 shirts). Griffin's been smiling since the
    day he was born (and no it is not gas, when's the last time you smiled
    because of gas?) and is a beautiful baby.

    	I have lots of catching up in my job to do, but I promise to resume
    my parenting noting as soon as I can. It's wonderful to read about all
    of the accomplishments, births, and (my personal favorite) funny things
    that your kids are doing. 

    	It really is good to be back.

    Its so great to hear from you - I'd been quizzing Stuart about meeting
    you folks the last time he was back up (that gypsy s/w guy is back
    at CXO with his youngest in tow).
    I feel for you in having such a big guy! ouch! But I am also
    glad that everything has turned out okay.
    Please pass my happy congrats to both you and Marc (and the boys!)
    
    Monica

    Wendy,
    Firstly, welcome back! Thanks for all the news.
    I was curious about one thing: when my second son Daniel was born
    they tested his blood sugar level the day he way born. They said
    they do that for all big babies and Daniel was only (only?) nine
    pounds. I didn't have any blood sugar problems. 
    Just wondering if they did that for your boys...
    

Wendy,

Congrats! Sounds like a rough first two weeks, but you seem to be taking it
all in stride...Good for you!  I just was curious as to why they didn't in-
duce you before the 11th day post-due date, since you had the "big baby"
history, etc.?  Was it because you hadn't dialated enough or did you just
want to "wait it out" til Mother Nature gave some signs?

I'm curious since I, too, had an almost 10-pounder (9-14) and am already a
bit apprehensive about delivering another child the size of an average
3-month-old (you know the comments from strangers I'm referring to).  My
o.b. said she would have no problem inducing the day after the due date if
I wanted to since it would save about a pound or more over waiting the
standard 2 weeks.  She said a lot of people are hesitant to do it for "ro-
mantic" reasons, especially for the first, but if the development looks okay,
she said it should be fine.  I know people will say "No pitocin for me!" etc.
if they've had a bad experience, but every option has its tradeoffs...

RE: .108 Just FYI - I don't recall my son Collin having his blood sugar
level tested at birth (doesn't mean it didn't happen, just that I was not
informed of any such test, nor was it noted on the APGAR evaluation). Different
policies at different hospitals, I suppose.

Have fun watching all of Griffin's "firsts" - I guess the smiling is already
in the record-book, huh?!

-Cori

    re: .108
    
    My 2nd daughter was born at Emerson Hospital in Concord MA on 3/3/93.
    She weighed in at just 1/2 oz. short of 9 lbs. They did the blood
    sugar test on her (if I recall correctly they do a series something
    like: at birth, at 6 hrs., at 12 hrs., and at 24 hrs. if necessary).
    They explained that even though I didn't get diagnosed with any blood
    sugar problems, they do this as a precaution against undetected
    gestational diabetes in the mother (as those with GD generally have
    larger than average babies). Allison's blood sugar counts increased
    pretty steadily, so they didn't do anything. But, if the counts were
    decreasing, they told me the standard intervention is to give the baby
    a little sugar water. They didn't go into the 'hazards' of not
    detecting a blood sugar problem in a newborn (since Allison's was o.k.,
    I didn't ask...didn't need more to worry about) but I imagine those out
    there with GD (past or present) could fill us in on them. 

    	In response to some of the previous notes:

    	Yes, they did test Griffin's blood for sugar shortly after he was
    born, it was something they routinely do for large babies. His results
    (as were mine) were normal. Hey we just grow 'em big.

    	As far as being induced earlier, I have mixed feelings about that.

    	During the 10 day labor ordeal, (yes ordeal is the correct word) I
    really wanted them to induce me even though I was terrified of being
    induced (for those of you not familiar with my first birth it was very,
    very difficult). I wanted to be induced and then I also didn't want to
    be induced to see if my body could do it on it's own. This had nothing
    to do with being romantic but I knew how difficult an induced labor is
    and I wanted to try to avoid that.

    	Initially they did not want to induce me because even though I was
    dialated, the baby's head was still too high and there was danger of
    cord obstruction. After 10 days of very little to no progress, they
    started weighing the baby's health against mine (having contractions
    for so long I was truly exhausted). They finally decided to induce on
    the 11th day because they said that the head seemed lower and that the
    risks were starting to get too high to not try at that point. (many of
    us were fully expecting me to come out of this with a c-section).

    	Having had a horrible, traumatic, induced labor and a rather
    pleasant (although long) non-induced labor, I would vote for waiting it 
    out to see if I could do it myself again. (Once again, this has nothing
    to do with being romantic and everything to do with being comfortable).

    	Although I realize that with just two data points it is very
    difficult to make any kind of conclusions.

    	I have been "warned" that a next baby would most likely be larger
    and that what took 1.5 weeks to recover from this time would most
    likely take longer the next. Call me crazy, but when I see these
    beautiful little people that we are creating, I am ready for more
    (although even I with one of the greatest cases of baby lust that I
    know am willing to call it quits at 3 (ok, the absolute most would be 4
    ;-))) (hope Marc is not reading this - he'd be falling off his chair
    right now at that one).

    			Wendy

    
    
    	Oh and as far as getting comments about having a "3-month old
    newborn", I'm used to it. I just have to make sure that people are
    aware of both of my kid's ages and that they treat them appropriately.
    (some people have forgotten to support Griffin's head because he "looks
    so big" and most people seeing Spencer's size, talk to him and expect a
    response when all he is really good at saying thus far is "uh-oh" and
    "data" as in Lt. Comdr. Data - sigh we're still waiting for that
    magical mommy and daddy).
    
    				Wendy

    
    From a diabetic mom ....
    
    If the mom has diabetes, gestational or not, the baby tends to make up
    for the mother's higher glucose level by producing more insulin.  When
    they're born, the additional production should revert back to "normal"
    but this doesn't always happen.
    
    When I had Chris, he was put on an IV anyway, and then they monitored
    him, fully expecting to have to give him a boost of glucose.  They
    never did.
    
    When I had Jason, they wanted to avoid the IV unless it was necessary.
    Unfortunately, at 3 days, his glucose was still low and dropping, so
    they gave him the IV and a little boost.
    
    I'm not sure what all the potential complications are in a newborn, but
    in a child/adult, excessively low blood sugar kills brain cells and can
    be very hard on other organs.
    
    One thing I did notice is that when Chris was born, my blood sugars had
    been VERY low for 2-3 days prior to his birth.  With Jason mine had
    been a little higher than we'd liked.  I suspect that Chris' insulin
    production decreased during those 2-3 days when he was still in utero.
    Jason never got the same chance.  We'll see what happens with #3!
    
    Hope this helps ...
    
    Patty

Geez, Wendy!  When you do it, you do it with a *flair*!  11 DAYS!!!!!

Welcome back, and congratulations!!  :-)

    Carol

    Yes, I noticed people expect more learned responses from Charlotte
    (which is when I diplomatically mention that she's just had her first
    birthday 8-).)
    
    As far as induced labour is concerned, I respect all your bravery,
    but in hindsight (what a wonderful thing, that!) would you have chosen
    your "ordeal" over another induction?
    
    As for me, I have no way to compare. With Daniel it was a grueling 32
    hour induction with no prize at the end, to a  9 hour induction with
    our wonderful Charlotte at the end. I like to think that my 
    system "took the hint" the second time around. However, Alan says that
    if/when another one is due, maybe. as something different, we might
    try nature's way 8-).
    (on the other hand, Charlotte was 9lb 3.5oz at one week early. Had
    she been born 3 weeks later, I think she would have been a little 
    on the hefty side!!!)
    
    Monica

    	(this is really the only note that I am following now, hence the
    number of replies to it).

    	As far as choosing my ordeal over another induction:

    	I had such a horrible time with Spencer's birth that I (my mind)
    chose not to remember a lot of what went on. When I started
    contractions with Griffin, I started remembering Spencer's birth and I
    literally became terrified. I was absolutely frightened to go through
    all of that again (you mothers who have had easy births don't know how
    lucky you are). So I held out against the induction (also, the midwives
    did not want to induct until it was very clear that risks were starting
    to develop).

    	After having the contractions for so long, I was so sore that I
    could not stand up straight or sit down (and this was *before* the baby
    had even been born yet!) I was finally ready to be induced but as I
    wrote earlier, it turned out that I did not need to be induced and the
    labor was a lot more enjoyable (we were telling jokes during the
    pushing stage and at one point I commented to the midwife that this
    birth was "just so civilized").

    	In hindsight I am glad that I was not induced (even though, as I
    told a friend, I was ready to cut the baby out of me with a Swiss army
    knife). I think that my body handled things a bit better.

    	As it looks like I have a history for this type of labor, in the
    future, I would choose to hold out for as long as I could (although I
    would put that in writing because when you are in the middle of that
    discomfort, you're likely to change your mind) in hopes that I would
    not have to be induced. I have already started to and would continue to
    work out some of the unresolved issues that I had with Spencer's birth.
    (I was terrified, I felt violated in many ways, some male Dr.s
    disregarded me as a person, the pain was unreal, I had no control).

    	Having some personal power makes all of the difference in the world
    and not being induced gave me back some of my power. As hellish as it
    sounds, this second birth was really not that bad of an experience (the
    waiting wore on us but the birth did not).

    	I have no idea if others who have been induced and then not been
    induced feel this way and I would be interested in hearing from them.


    			Wendy

    
    
    Hi Wendy!  Glad to see you are back and have a wondeful, happy baby!
    
    I'm the one that is petrified of having another big baby again
    (Nicholas was 9lbs 15oz 22 1/2 inches).  My last day of work
    is this Wednesday.  My mid-wife told me that if I don't gain a
    lot of weight, that most likely the baby will be at a normal (7lbs)
    size. I'm due June 30th.  I've put on 17 lbs.  I went to the
    dtr's last week and she said, "Oh my, you have a good size baby
    in there!".  Thanks, just what I wanted to hear! :)  I think like
    you, we just grow them big, although I don't know why.  My husband
    and I were in the 7lb range.  I heard over and over again, how
    I delivered a "3 month old" too.  Everyone thinks Nicholas is
    2 years old.
    
    I am so glad to hear that your 2nd delivery was much easier than
    your first.  People have been asking me if I can't wait to have
    this baby and I say, "Yes, actually, I don't mind if he/she stays
    in there forever, I don't want to deliver him/her!".  So your
    story makes me feel a little better.  I think I'm more afraid of
    having back labor again than anything.  I had my son at Nashua
    Memorial and they had the best nurses.  THey were wonderful!
    I'll have to tell them to stock up on Percocets!
    
    Congratulations on your bundle of joy!
    
    -Chris

    Helen eventually decided to try some castor oil, Wednesday tea-time.
    It didn't seem to have any effect at all, so she took some more about
    9pm. Then while watching Jasper Carott, she got stomach cramps which
    we put down to the castor oil.
    
    After a totally sleepless night on her behalf (she didn't want to wake
    me as it wasn't really labour), she got me up at 7:25 and poured out
    her woes. She also happened to mention that the cramps & backache
    seemed to be coming every 4 minutes. I suggested she ring the hospital
    & admit to taking the oil (they had definately not to). They didn't
    seem very sympathetic ("Well what do you expect?" they said) but
    suggested we came in anyway. Aha, I thought, they can't be THAT sure.
    
    After an examination Helen was told she was in labour, and a great look
    of relief washed over her face!
    
    She was monitored for 1/2 hr, then after about 2 hours her blood
    pressure went up, so we went to a delivery room so she could have a
    pethidine injection to try & bring the pressure down (which it did).
    The TENS machine we fitted on arrival seemed to ease the backache
    between contractions. At about 3pm she left the TENS macine on boost
    all the time & concentrated on the gas & air. By now it was 2nd stage
    labour and she was having difficulty getting the hang of pushing (the
    'push' kept leaking out of her mouth!). With the monitor on (fitted at 
    the time of the pethidine) and the TENS she was getting a bit tangled
    when trying to change position.
    
    She had an episiotomy at 3:30 and the baby was delivered onto her tummy
    at 3:40.
    
    The cut was quite large the doctor said, but in proportion to her
    height (?), so the stiching took a little while under local anasthetic.
    During this time I held our son which I really enjoyed. As Helen had
    lost more blood thru' the cut than usual, she was feeling feint. She
    was also groggy from the various anasthetics, so she stayed in the
    admmisions ward for an hour or so.
    
    I left her installed in a 6 bed ward with two other mums in. 
    
    I think I'm going to enjoy parenthood! :-)
    
    Andy  

    Congrats Andy - it will be easy for awhile - so enjoy with all your
    energy!
    
    Hugs to everyone!  
    
    I just recently witnessed my sister giving birth (June 29th).  Let me
    say that if you haven't acutally seen this in the "flesh" it is
    something to see!!!  I had two kids of my own, but until I was somewhat
    "removed" from the incident, I didn't realize how awsome it can be! 
    Especially since I could say - oh is that was they were doing, or so
    that's what that thing is for, etc.
    
    Every woman who has given birth deserves the experience of being there
    with someone else!!!!
    
    -sandy
    

    I have to say a special congrats, Andy;
    (and I will have to tell my mom about another castor-oil success 
    story 8-) 8-) )
    Rowan shares a birthday with my country!
    
    Monica

Monica,

Happy Canada Day! (belated)

Michael

    Hi all,
    
    Well I'm down to 2 weeks left from today!  Doc has scheduled
    induction for Aug 12th.  He wants to make sure I will be at
    the hospital.
    
    I'm really starting to get nervous about the labor.  I had
    such a hard time with my 2nd.
    
    I think I'd really like to have an epidural.  Can anyone
    tell me what the effects of an epidural are on the baby?
    I can't seem to find much info in my books about it
    
    Thanks,
    Peggy
    

    Peggy,
    
    Effect on the baby from the Epidural.... NONE!  None of the anesthetic
    ever reaches the baby.  As was described to me, it means the numbing
    agent wraps around the spinal column causing numbness, it does not
    actually puncture the spinal core, as a spinal would.
    
    Benefit to you is that once the catheter that delivers the anesthesia
    is removed, it wears off rapidly and you don't have to stay in bed or
    lay flat for a long period.
    
    

    Thanks Lyn for the info...  just what I wanted to hear.
    
    Although I would like to go natural, I am being induced
    and know from experience that it's much worse.  I think
    I'll go for it!
    
    I have my appt today and will talk to the doc more about it.
    
    Only one more appt after today, unless they decide to take
    me sooner.  I've been having excessive swelling the last
    2 days.  My MIL took my blood pressure last night and it's
    elevated a little, not much.  My mother had toxemia with
    me and I'm wondering if that's what I'm developing.
    
    We'll soon find out.
    
    Thanks again,
    
    Peggy
    

    I have been told that I could do advertisements for epidurals ...
    
    When I was pregnant, I did a lot of reading and talking with various
    doctors, about the effects, both on the baby and me, of the epidural.
    I came up with none!  (Except the obvious pain-killing ones for me!)
    
    The only thing that I can gather is that women are anxious about having
    them, due to the association with "spinals."  However, as .-1 pointed
    out, it's different than a spinal.  No crossing of the placenta, and no
    headache for mom.  (In rare cases, they can screw up the epidural, with
    a resulting "spinal" headache.)
    
    I had also heard that, under the "influence" of an epidural, you lacked
    enough control to push.  However, I was aware of the contractions, and
    had full control.  The only thing that was missing was the pain.  It
    really was incredible.
    
    For me, it was such a clear decision.  No pain for me, no risk to the
    baby, and significantly reduced anxiety on my part!  I knew, from the
    beginning, that I would get one; it was never "if it gets unbearable,
    I'll go for it."  I had known too many women who had gone in with that
    philosophy and either:  1) waited until it was too late to get the
    epidural or 2) endured lots of pain and then "gave in", then ended up
    disappointed in themselves that they weren't "tough enough."
    
    I figured that I had nothing to prove.  The *only* thing that was
    important to me was that there be no risk to the baby.  Without that, I
    said ........  GO FOR IT!  I actually enjoyed my delivery.
    
    Good luck with your decision, and your delivery.
    
    Leslie

    Agreeing with Leslie - 
    When in labour with Charlotte I kept on complaining that the epidural
    wasn't doing much because the pain was getting worse and worse. So
    they continued to "top me up" giving me more and more freezing action
    what was actually happening is that I was dilating at a greatly 
    accelerated rate from my earler progress. The result was that I
    was ready to push much earlier than everyone expected (I suppose
    the nurses just thought I was a whiner or something) and by that time
    my legs were dead weights.
    
    However, NONE of the important sensations, from the "hairline" down 
    were numbed, and I was more than ready to push my wonderful daughter
    out into the world.
    
    It can be said that when you take the edge of the pain, you are less
    distracted to enjoy the magic moment.....8-) 
    
    Monica
    
    

    Thank you for all the advice.
    
    Well, I had my appt on Friday.  I am now 3 cm dilated!
    The doc seemed to think I was rather "big", so he sent
    me for an ultrasound to find out how big the baby is and 
    then they called me back to his office.  It turns out
    that this baby is already 7.2 pounds!  My due date 
    isn't until the 18th!
    
    I will be induced this friday, Aug 6th, instead of the 12th!
    Doc says the baby will be about 8 pounds by then and if
    we wait any longer, the baby will be too big for me to
    deliver.  
    
    So, this is the last week before I become really busy
    and have my baby in my arms!
    
    I still feel that I would like to try to deliver natural,
    but all the well-meaning advice I've received, I think
    I will go for an epidural as soon as I get there!  I
    don't want to wait until it's too late either, so I'll
    go for it!
    
    Thanks again and wish me luck!
    
    Peggy

    Peggy, 
    
    Good luck (it's from ALL of us right guys?), and please let us know the
    details of the big event.
    
    I just know you will do OK, and it's all for such a wonderful thing!
    
    If it's any consolation, I had two spinal surgeries prior to getting
    pregnant, and the epidural still worked well.  It goes to show that it
    really IS a "miracle drug"!
    
    Lyn

    Peggy,
    
    Good luck on Friday.   I will pray that everything will go well for
    you.
    
    
    Bernie
    

Well, I'm betting that you won't make it until
Friday - 3 cm gone already !

good luck.

Pat

    Please get word to us how everything worked; going in 
    to get induced at a scheduled time is something I can understand.
    I did it twice. (Makes life kind of orderly, doesn't it? 8-) )
    
    Monica
    Best of luck!!!!!

Or you can have an un-orderly induction like my wife....the night before, after
applying the gel to soften the cervix, she went into labor spontaneously, and
5 hours later Gillian was born.  She was supposed to go home that evening, to
come back in the morning for pitosin.  We were both stuck in work clothes, and
very uncomfortable (until Gillian came along).

Michael

    Thanks to all.
    
    I'm sure "Proud Daddy" will be posting a note in right away.
    He's just as excited as I am and just as nervous!  Although
    he's worried about taking care of the baby and I'm just
    worried about making it through labor/delivery!  
    
    This is the longest week of my life!
    
    Thanks again,
    
    Peggy

    
    Hi all.
    
    Well, today is my first day back to work after being out 8 weeks.
    (Miss my little guy).
    
    I figured that since I posted my note in here about my labor/delivery
    for my first son Nicholas (wasn't an easy one) that I'd post
    my recent labor/delivery of Joshua (born July 16th 9lbs. 11oz
    22inches).
    
    Since I was 16 days overdue and there were no signs (wasn't even
    dialated) of the baby wanting to come out, they decided to 
    do an induction.
    
    I went in on Friday morning at around 7:00 to be induced.
    I was glad to finally deliver the baby because I was so
    uncomfortable (remember those 100 degree days?), so I was
    pretty excited until the doctor informed me that not all
    inductions work and the baby might not come today.  I didn't
    realize that and thought that when you were going to get
    induced then that was it, the baby was coming.  So I almost
    started crying and I said to the doctor that I had to have
    the baby NOW!  
    
    They started the pitocin and I began to have contractions
    but wasn't really dialating.  The doctors and nurses were not
    optimistic at all and said that I'd probably be going home
    and they'd try again tomorrow.  The doctor administered more
    pitocin and my contractions were getting more and more stronger.
    Around 2:00pm they got really intense and around 5:00 I asked
    for an epidural (which he put in wrong and it had to be administered
    a second time - didn't end up really taking either). Because
    the hospital was so busy delivering babies and everyone wanted
    an epidural, they gave me a sedative (which started me vomiting
    until after I delivered but they gave me a shot afterwards to
    stop the vomiting) to hold me off a bit.
      
    Around 5:30pm I felt a lot of pressure like the baby was coming out.
    (Since I had a epidural with my 1st son, I was totally numb
    from the waist down so I didn't feel the urge to push or pressure.
    this epidural was only about 40% effective so I could still feel
    pain).  I told the nurse that I felt "a LOT of pressure down there"
    and she didn't really seemed concerned.  In fact I didn't think
    she was listening to me so I said it again.  She said that the
    baby wouldn't be here until after 8:00pm.  It was only 5:30pm.
    I made it clear that SOMETHING was definately happening and
    she said that she'd get the doctor.  He came in and the head was
    crowned and he said that I could push!    I pushed for 24 minutes
    and at 5:54pm Joshua was born.  I didn't have an episiotomy but
    did end up tearing and it did heal rather well and quickly.
    
    The epidural left my right leg totally numb after the rest of
    my body went 'un-numb' and didn't go back to normal until the next
    day.  For some reason, the epidural went really bad this time.
    I was discharged the next day.  I couldn't even bend over to brush
    my teeth because of my epidural.  I was lucky to have the epidural
    work wonderfully with my 1st born.  It did help the contractions
    which I am grateful for!  Because I was on pitocin, the contractions
    were so intense and by the time I was trying to get a grip from
    1 contraction, the next one had already started.
    
    All in all it was a great, quick delivery and I'm so happy to have
    Joshua.  Why my kids are so big, I don't know.  My husband says
    that I like to "brew em' big"!
    
    -Chris (proud mom of Nicholas 18 mos. and Joshua 2 mos.)

    Chris,
    your story sounds very familiar - with both my inductions, they gave
    me the line about possibly sending me home. The first time, which was 
    to have me deliver our Daniel, I was very close to tears; I could not
    bear to leave and have to continually deal with Daniel being not 
    alive anymore. But, I just made it "under the wire" as it were and 
    the head OB on duty had mercy on my and started the pitocin instead
    of sending me home.
    For Charlotte, I just flatly did not believe that I'd have to go home.
    I KNEW she'd be delivered that day.
    
    Congrats to all of you!
    
    Monica

I haven't heard of anyone else having this expience so I'll add mine.  My labor
and delivery of the baby went fine but delivery of the placenta was a different
story. 

Doctor broke the water at 8 a.m. and waited until 2 to see if I'd start labor
on my own.  At 2 they started pitocin but nothing happened until 7 p.m.  Then
I went from nothing to intense labor, which was quite a shock.  I was saying to
forget the natural route and give me an epidural when they told me I was 8.5
centimeters.  What was really only moments later I was at pushing stage and that 
only lasted a short time.  Alex was delivered at 7:50 p.m.  He arrived sooner 
than they expected ,it turned out.  Doctor didn't have time to cut so I had 
significant tearing, also to the cervix. (which healed very well and rather
quickly)  But right after Alex's birth the pain got worse. Just as he was being 
put on my chest and I was waiting for the magic to start, I realized the pain 
wasn't stopping. In fact it seemed to be getting worse. At first I just thought I
was being a baby and tried to tell myself this was no big deal. However, then the 
doctor called the nurse down to help him (she was with the baby and I) and asked 
for additional staff. In a short time I was screeming and he was apologizing 
that this wasn't all over with yet. I had no idea what was going on. My husband 
looked quite concerned for me and none of us were paying attention to the baby. 
I knew the doctor was up to his shoulders inside me - he was pulling and pulling. 
In between my screams I was worrying that Alex would be scarred by this 
experience - instead of bonding with his parents were were all stressed out.  
Finally the nurse sent my husband and the baby to the nusery and they knocked
me out.  In the middle of all this (was probably only minutes this was happening)
the doctor was calling for more staff but there was a shift change or something
and they couldn't immediately find more help or the anesthesiologist.  Turns out
I was hemorrhaging and he couldn't get the placenta out.  The condition is called
placenta acreda - the placenta literally grows on to the uterine wall. He had to 
do a d&c and by the time he got the placenta out and I was stabilized I had lost 
half my blood.  Once I woke up I was tethered to all sorts of instruments and 
devices.  The nurses were hovering and were taking all of this quite seriously
When I asked what the big deal was they filled me in on what happened. Blood 
pressure was 40/30 and stayed dangerously low for awhile.  The next day they
recommended the first transfusion.  That helped but I still had to stay in
about 4 days and had another transfusion before I left the hospital.  Alex and
I were home 2 days when I developed a fever and  we both were readmitted (he
had to come along in order to get his meals) for another 3 days because of 
infection in the uterus. 

I had never heard of this condition before.  Nurses at Emerson Hospital told
me they only get 1-2 per year. My nurse practitioner cousin said a woman having 
this often loses her uterus as a result.  Someone else said she heard when it 
happens it is usually to older women (I am).  

Anyway, the amazing thing that after being so low I was feeling quite good within
3 weeks.  Doctor said without the transfusions I would have been bedridden 6-8
weeks.   

Has anyone heard of this or have personal experience?

Kathy

    Kathy, What an experience! I feel for you! I know of a few women who
    have  had post-natal uterine-infections, but I do not know whether they 
    experienced the same condition with the placenta. Was your induction
    before 40 weeks? When I was induced with Daniel (after his  in-utero
    death), I was approx 33 weeks and the placent0a would not delivery
    afterward. I was threatened with manual removal - the doctor was
    pulling on the umbilical and said that  she knew that the placenta was
    stuck fast (I assume that this was be- cause it was not "finished" as
    it were). 
    
    So after 32 hours of labour for what I knew was a stillbirth. I was
    being threatened with manual removal or surgery. Luckily enough the 
    person to do the procedure had not yet arrived (working on another 
    delivery) and an HOUR later, still hooked up to the pitocin I had 
    a contraction hard enough to delivery the darned thing. 
    
    I still consider myself very lucky that it did not tear, or had to
    be delivered by the doctor with the big beefy hands.
    
    Kathy, may I ask if this has left you with some permanent problem/
    condition?
    
    Monica

   re: .136
>Has anyone heard of this or have personal experience?
    
    I believe that my sister-in-law went through something like this, but
    not quite. She had placenta previa and pre-term labor. She was home
    on bed-rest, being monitored twice a day. She realized one evening 
    that she hadn't felt the baby kick. (She was probably 33-34 weeks along 
    at this point). She called the monitoring people who told her to go
    ahead and call her ob/gyn since they only monitor contractions. The
    end result was that she lost the baby. However, they believed she had
    the condition you mentioned. Since this was to be her first child they
    wanted to try to save the uterus at all costs. What they did was wait
    until the next morning and  called in a cancer specialist who was used
    to dealing with micro-vascular surgery. They were going to attempt to
    remove the embedded placenta without harming the uterus. As it turned
    out, she didn't have the placenta acreda condition. But I thought that
    seemed to be a creative solution. 
    
    The really sad part of the tale is that one of her doctors had
    originally wanted to take the baby the day before she died. He was
    voted down by the other doctors on the case.

RE .36

I went through a similar experience and at Emerson too!  I also had to have a
D&C on the delivery table, but I didn't lose too much blood.  I did bleed
heavily for 2 weeks after the delivery though and lost about 20 lbs.  I think
it was a lot tougher on my husband watching then it was on me.  I really
couldn't feel a thing, though I had no anesthetic. 

Re: was I at full term and is there permanent damage -

I was induced at 40 weeks - I was offered the option and took it, much to my
husband's displeasure.  The doctor was going out of town for the 4th of July 
holidays and called to present the offer.  Since I conceived via the GIFT 
procedure they knew exactly when I was due. He said he wouldn't offer this to a 
woman who conceived the old fashioned way since you aren't really sure the time 
of conception.  I had been 2-3 centimeters dialated for a week, had the circlage
out for a few weeks and was incredibly anxious to see this baby so I took his
offer.  Now I'm not sure it was the best thing to do cause the induced labor
really came on fast once it started working and I now feel it is best, if you
can, just let nature take its course.  When trying to decide I asked him why I
wouldn't want to be induced and he said he had no idea that it's no different
and it would be great to get it over with!

However, being induced didn't cause the placenta acreda.  About permanent
damage  - you know, I never asked.  Noone has ever gone in to look.  At the
time of the infection, I did have an ultrasound done to see if there was any 
major tissue pieces left and that turned out ok. Still not getting this condition
is so unusual, I think I have figured everything is ok now. The doctor didn't
tell me anything to make me think otherwise, however. I did ask if I might 
get pregnant on my own now that I have had one.  Doctor didn't think so. He 
said it's likely the same infertility problems exist. He said if I
ever delivered again they would be prepared for the placenta acreda  and it is 
somewhat likely I'd experience it again.  

Only 3 months after the fact I'm not too anxious to start trying for a repeat
performance. I'm 41 with 8 years of infertility problems so I'm kind of 
prepared for Alex being the only child.  But, you never know!

Kathy

    
    	I delivered big babies and with my second I ended up getting a
    uterine infection. Lots of pain, cramping and LOTS of bleeding. I was
    told that the infection resulted because my second was so large (10.2)
    and my uterus did not "clamp" down afterwards (even though I received
    shots of pitocin *after* the birth and was on oral pitocin for a week
    after the birth :-() The pain was bad enough for me to be on percoset
    for about a week.

    	In the last volume (I think) I wrote about my sister who had had
    half of her placenta left inside of her after the baby was born. The
    Doctor had assumed that the nurse had removed it and the nurse had
    assumed that the Doctor had done it. The result was MASSIVE bleeding,
    surgery and lots of transfusions nine days after the baby was born. She
    also had a systemic infection as a result.

    	I wonder if she had the same condition that you had which might
    account for only part of the placenta releasing (not that that excuses
    anything). This was her fourth baby at age 38. Hmmm, she doesn't talk
    too much about it (she was incredibly frightened and even had a near
    death experience when she "bottomed out".)

    	I am glad that you are able to discuss this (as frightening as it
    sounds) and I am in awe that you are considering the possibility of
    another birth.

    					Wendy

They used the term "clamp" down with me too.  In my case they said I hemorrahaged
because the uterus couldn't "clamp" down because of the placenta acreda.

Kathy

    
The following is being entered at the request of a member of the
PARENTING notesfile community who prefers to remain anonymous at
this time.

Carol Stolicny, PARENTING co-mod

*****************************************************************

	I can't seem to find any information on "stripping of the membranes"
as a possible way to get labor started.  My doctor indicated he may do
this on my next visit and I'd like to hear any experiences on having
had this done.


thanks.

    I had my membranes stripped with my third child.  He was 4 days overdue
    and my midwife told me there was a 60% chance of labor beginning within
    24 hours.  Well, she did it on Friday afternoon - by 10:30 that night I
    was in hard labor, Tim was born at 2:21 AM.
    
    All this entails is the dr. sticking his/her finger up around your
    cervix and wiggling it around a little (that's what it felt like
    anyway).  When my midwife was done she had a little bit of blood on her
    glove which she said was a good sign.
    
    It was no big deal and, most importantly, it WORKED!
    
    Send mail if you have any other questions.
    
    Linda

    I had mine stripped with my first son - I was 11 days overdue at the
    time. I went in to labor 24 hours later.
    
    Intercourse can also have the same effect :-)
    

    My doctor did this when I was two weeks before the due date. He did
    this without asking, which I did not appreciate. My husband thinks that
    maybe he had a good reason, but did not want to worry me, but I would 
    have preferred that he discuss it first. My labor started two days 
    afterward, and everything went very well. The labor started at
    Midnight, we arrived at the hospital at 5:00AM, and the baby was born
    at 6:00AM. There was a knot in the baby's umbilical cord, but luckily
    it was not pulled tight and the baby had not suffered (my husband
    thinks this is the reason that the doctor induced me, since he might 
    have seen this in an ultrasound). Also all of the placenta did not come
    out so the doctor had to remove the rest with his hand. This was
    painful since I did not have any anesthesia, but it did not last very
    long.
    I would only do the "stripping of membranes" if you are overdue or
    if there is a good reason. I have read that there is a risk of breaking
    the amniotic sac during the stripping, which is OK if labor starts,
    but could mean a cessarian if it does not start soon enough (I think). 
    Some books discuss this.
    (I also found that it was painful, but it did not last very long)
    Carol

    
    >>at 6:00AM. There was a knot in the baby's umbilical cord, but luckily
    >>it was not pulled tight and the baby had not suffered (my husband
    >>thinks this is the reason that the doctor induced me, since he might 
    >>have seen this in an ultrasound). Also all of the placenta did not come
    
    Carol,
    I know first hand that a knot in the umbilical cord is NOT easy to
    see in an ultrasound. I had an ultrasound done when I complained that 
    the baby wasn't moving. and although it was plainly evident that 
    Daniel (who was born weighing almost 6 pounds at 33 weeks) was not
    alive anymore, the only way we knew there was a knot in the cord 
    was through inspection of the cord after the delivery. 
    (My doctor was amazed that the knot was so tight, she couldn't even
    poke an instrument through it)
    At that point she gave me the full lecture on how knots in the 
    umbilical cord RARELY EVER harm the child as their structure gives them
    strength, so that being pinched or knotted will normally not collapse 
    them. She later told me that the very day of Daniel's delivery she 
    delivered 2 healthy babies with knots in the cords.
    
    Monica
    

	
	I had childbirth last night and now I am in a state of terror.  I'm
	very afraid of pain and decided that I would go the epidural route
	so that I wouldn't feel the pain.  But, last night when we discussed
	epidurals I am now terrified of the epidural.  I barely slept last
	night.  You see, the nurse made the mistake of showing me a picture
	of the needle.  I HATE needles but I can handle small ones as long 
	as I don't look at it.  Well, this one was the size of the skewer
	I use for shish-ka-bobs... it was drawn to scale.  I was in tears
	during the class last night because I am so afraid of the pain but
	the one thing that can give me the relief I want I am terrified of
	having!  In addition, the nurse also told me that paralysis could
	occur (very rare but one of my worst nightmares).  I couldn't believe
	the rest of the women were so calm about this procedure so I tend
	to believe my fears are somewhat unreasonable.  I just can't control
	my fright though!

	I'm not sure what I'm asking you folks here.  I'm not sure anybody
	can even reassure me now.  I've heard over and over again how great
	epidurals are to relieve pain but now I'm petrified of it!  I know 
	that they will numb me before sticking the skewer in but that doesn't
	make me feel any better.  I also know that I might go so fast I
	won't need the epidural.... I really hope that is the case!

	I've always considered myself to have a low pain tolerance.  Could
	I possibly surprise myself and be able to put up with more than
	I previously expected?  Could I get to the point where my pain is
	so much that my fear of the epidural goes away?  Does anybody know 
	anybody who was permanently paralyzed from this procedure?

	Also, how numbing is Demerol (actually, this hospital uses Stadol)?
	I'm now considering that if I can avoid the epidural.

	Karen

	

    Karen,
    
    I always thought I had a low pain threshhold but had all three of my
    kids without any anasthesia/analgesia.  I was more frightened of the
    potential side-effects of the drugs when I had Lolita, and Carrie and
    Atlehi were born at home, so none of the drugs used in the hospital
    were available.  
    
    For me the major thing to remember was to remain calm and relaxed
    (yeah, right when you are doing the hardest work you have ever done,)
    but it does work.  You do have time in between contractions to regroup
    for the next one.  Believe me it isn't like a broken bruise or even
    orthodontia.  The extreme  intensity doesn't go on forever, and ever,
    you have nice breaks in between.  
    
    I don't know of anyone who has been paralyzed by the epidural, but a
    friend has an "electric shock" feeling down one leg from her's and this
    has continued for three week.s  Her Dr, says it should eventually go
    away.  
    
    I would suggest discussing all options with your practitioner, and see
    if this aleviates some of your fears.  There may be other things you
    can try.    
    
    Meg

    I guess the reason I decided to try and have a natural birth, was due
    to the fact that I was in the hospital 4 times before my oldest was
    born. I saw first hand how the women who had epidurals were after the
    births.  They were all very stiff.  You must also remember, they have
    to let the epidurals wear off so that you can push.  

    As the last note stated, the pain is not always constant.  You do have
    breaks between contractions.  

    Good luck to you.  Make the decision that is easiest for you to handle.

    Lillian

    >>You must also remember, they have
    >>to let the epidurals wear off so that you can push.  


That's not true, at least not always. I had an epidural when I delivered my
twins, and they did not let it wear off so that I could push to deliver
Jessica.  I will admit that it is really wierd to push and not be able to
feel anything, but I was able to deliver her naturally with the epidural
still in effect.  The problem I had was that the epidural didn't take
effect high enough so that when they went to do the C-section so that I 
could deliver the second twin, they had to use general anesthesia.

And I don't remember any stiffness from the delivery due to the epidural.
But then having just done one delivery naturally and one delivery by
section, I'm not sure I would have noticed any stiffness or been able to
attribute it to the epidural. 

The other thing with my epidural was that they went to great lengths to 
explain that I was so thin (I carried all 28 pounds that I gained during
my 28-week pregnancy in front) that they would have no trouble getting the
needle inserted correctly.  Yeah, right. It took them 3 attempts before they
got it in correctly. In fact, that made such an impression that I used that
experience to refuse a spinal tap on Brad when they did his surgery at 6
months.  I figured he'd have no way to tell them if something was wrong, and
given his track record for always being in that small percentage of people
who adversely react to something, I wasn't willing to play around with his
spinal cord.

    We can tell you "its not that bad" but you won't believe us.
    We can tell you "its pretty bad, but it'll be over" but that may upset 
    you more.
    What you will have to do is work on some rationalizing before the
    actual labour/delivery cause that's when all your fears will stress
    you. Once the labour starts you will be to busy to be afraid. And the
    pain has its reward at the very end.
    
    What you CAN do to bouy your spirit in the meantime is reflect on 
    another occasion about some pain you've had (be it a condition, an
    injury or simply menstral cramps - which to me is the most like
    labour). Remember that you (1) survived this pain and (2) it lasted
    only a finite amount of time. Having done this, wear that experience
    like a badge of honour - you SURVIVED it. So, you can survive this
    experience too. 
    (my justification was always: "Well, other women went through this,
    so I can too")
    As far as the epidural is concerned, you can leave that decision
    outside of your realm of thinking for now, and decide ONLY during
    labour, since you have NO IDEA what your thinking will be then.
    (you may be thinking "hey this is not so bad, I have a handle on it",
    or "even the needle isn't such a bad idea now, since it will remove
    the pain").
    
    Don't hesitate to tell your health-professional involved with your
    delivery about your fears: it will get this off your chest and 
    he/she will take this into account when the time comes.
    
    Best of luck,
    
    Monica

I have also always considered myself to have a low threshold of pain.  Prior to
my delivery I had a number of conversations with my midwife to discuss my
preferences.  Things I covered were: 
	- yes on an epidural
	- no IV's unless necessary (I too hate needles)
	- the hospital had a jacuzzi tub I wanted to use
	- if possible, wanted to avoid a caesarean (sp?)
	- etc...

When the event arrived, it was not like others who shared their experiences with
me.  It was uniquely my own, for better or worse.  Find comfort in those who
will be with you, share your feelings.  Like the previous noters, remaining calm
is key.  Easier said than done.  Some things I did were:
	- talked and joked with my spouse about my fears
	- talked to the baby (we made a deal, I asked her for a labor that
	  was less than 8 hrs, early and for her to be less than 8lbs).
	  Yes, everyone thought I was crazy.
	- worked on the breathing (never got it quite right but it did
	  distract me from other things)
	- and nested (hit me big time about 4-5 weeks before my due date.
	- tried to focus on the "easy birth" stories people shared with me and
	  not the others 

The one thing you will hear from many that is SO true - is "it's all worth it". 
Before having Lauren I could never imagine how she would effect our lives -
she's wonderful.

I hope this helps because your thoughts were so familiar to me.  And guess what,
I would even consider having another.

    
    	When I had my first child I planned to go to the corner of the rice
    field, squat, have the baby and then return to work. I remember telling
    people (I even wrote it in an earlier version of this notefile) that I
    would *never* have a needle in my back. After 9 hours of induced
    labor, I begged for an epidural which lasted for 6 hours until I
    started pushing. I would not have been able to do it without the
    epidural and yes I don't like needles either and yes, Marc almost
    fainted when he saw the needle sticking out of my back.
    
    	When I had my second baby, I walked into the hospital backwards so
    that they could put the needle in while I was signing all of the
    appropriate paperwork.;-) Griffin's was a tough but lovely birth.
    
	Don't close out any options, take it as it comes.
    
    				Wendy
    

    re: .154  Don't close out any options, take it as it comes.

    I think this is great advice!   You never really know what
    you're in for.  However, I do believe that if you expect the
    worst, you may get it (and vice versa).  Try to think positive!

    When I had Jason, I was open to the possibility of an epidural
    but honestly didn't need it.  I also didn't need painkillers
    during labor or recovery.   I know a few other people that had
    similar experiences - so it's certainly within the realm of
    possibility that you will too.   Be aware of the potential for
    pain and medication/anesthesia but concentrate on the positive.

    My two bits,
    Carol

Karen,

The thing I kept thinking that helped me most was "I can stand just 
about any thing for a minute or minute and a half", which is about how 
long a contraction lasts.  Taking it one contraction at a time and 
remembering that it will end may help you over the humps.

And remember the millions who have lived through it before you....

Best to ya.
Norma

    I can definitely relate to your fears.  I had them, too.  I was afraid
    of the pain, but then after we started childbirth classes I became
    afraid of the epidural and the episiotomy (you want to do WHAT).  But, 
    when the time came I was lucky in that I didn't need an epidural (I was
    able to breathe through the contractions and then had a pain shot which
    definitely took off the edge).  Also, the episiotomy was fine, I didn't
    feel a thing.
    
    Everyone's labor is different but you will make it through.  There's no
    way out but through 8^)  It was the most worthwhile pain I've ever had. 
    I suffer from migraines and I'd give birth to 1000 kids before I'd
    choose migraine pain.  The thing is to concentrate on the end, remind
    yourself that it WILL be over and you'll have a baby!
    
    Three hours after my daughter was born I called my best friend in PA,
    who was due the same time I was, since they weren't home I left a
    message on her machine. She said that me telling her that it wasn't
    that bad helped her alot when her time came, in fact, she saved the
    message and kept playing it over and over.

    I really like Monica's suggestion to think of a pain that you've
    already experienced and realize that you got through *that*, so you can
    get through labor.  What I did was to use my (increasingly frequent :-(
    leg cramps as "practice".  Some people combat cramps by stretching
    their legs, but I absolutely cannot move, I have to wait it out (I
    can't even roll my eyes...!).  So I pretended it was a contraction,
    told myself I just had to WAIT IT OUT and if I tried to thrash around
    it would get WORSE.  That turned out to be PRECISELY my experience
    with contractions, so it was very good training!
    
    On Demerol - your mileage may vary, but for me it did not decrease pain
    at all; what it did was "compress time".  What I mean by that is, it
    supposedly relaxed me enough *between contractions* so that I wasn't
    conscious until the next contraction began.  Sounds good until you
    think about what it was like experientially: back-to-back contractions
    with NO relief!  (If I'm going to have periods of no pain, I'd like to
    be awake for them please....)
    
    I love the image of backing in to the hospital!  My spinal (for
    unplanned C-sec) was great, all except for the curling-up-during-
    another-contraction part.  Luckily they didn't show me the needle
    first.  (Speaking of which, under no circumstances should you let
    yourself see the catheters!!!  =8-O  :-)
    
    Leslie
    was great 

    
    I had Stadol (2mg) when I had my daughter. I didn't want an epidural
    a) cause I hate needles and b) cause I wanted to go as natural as
    possible. When I had been in labor for ~19-20 hours I was beat, going
    numb due to hyperventilation, and couldn't concentrate enough to
    breathe right to get rid of the numbess cause I was so tired that I
    couldn't "deal" with the pain anymore. That's when they gave me the
    Stadol. As (-.1 said, Leslie, right??) the drug makes you unaware of
    what's going on in between contrations. For Leslie, she didn't like it;
    for me, I loved it. It gave me the rest I needed and helped me relax
    enough to be able to breathe right and get through the contraction.
    After 22 hours of labor my daughter was born and the drug had worn off
    enough that I was again fully coherent (and rested) for the pushing and
    the birth. I'm now pregnant with my second and will hopefully be able
    to go the same route and if the labor is shorter maybe I'll make it
    without the Stadol. I had always heard such horror stories about the
    pain of labor and at first was a bit worried. Then I took the attitude
    that "well, this baby had to come out and I just had to deal with it".
    So going in I just kept saying "It will end". I found the pain to be
    nowhere near as bad as I expected and felt the breathing helped alot.
    Also I stood in a shower with the water beating on my lower back during
    contractions and this helped immensely!!!!
    
    Patty

    I always dreaded labor - growing up I always said that I was going to
    adopt kids so I wouldn't have to go through the pain!  But when I was
    in pregnant with Derek (now 4 years old) I told the doctor that I'm
    going to try to not have anything for the pain, but I'm not going to be
    a martyr either - I'll ask for something if I really feel I need it. 
    In my case, by the time I asked for something for the pain, I was
    already 9 cm. and it was too late.  The thing that kept me going was a
    something the nurse said to me - "just remember, with each contraction,
    that's one less that you're going to have!"  It really worked. 
    Whenever I had a contraction when I was at the pushing stage, I found it 
    helped to look at the clock so I'd know when I had been pushing for 10 
    seconds.  The breathing worked a little for me, but not much.  Things
    that worked great in lamaze class, didn't do a thing to help once I was
    in labor.  It's one of those things that you just have to wait and see
    what feels best for you.  Of course it didn't help that I had back
    labor...  I ended up getting something after Derek was born, including
    oxygen, but all in all, I was just so happy that it was over and that I
    had done it - I had given birth - that I did forget about the pain. 
    Now, whenever I'm faced with something difficult, I just remember that
    I've given birth, I can do anything!
    
    Best of luck!
    Barb

    
    That's funny, I often think to myself also when faced with a difficult
    task, "well I've made it through labor, (twice) I can do anything".
    
				Wendy
    

	Karen,

	Luckily, our childbirth instructor did not flash pictures of the
	epidural needle at us.  I went into my labor with the attitude that
	I'd go it on my own as long as I could, but would not rule out
	medications or anesthesia.

	I got Demerol after 12 hours of induction, and it helped me last 
	three more hours.  It didn't remove the pain, but it did help me relax
	enough to continue my breathing.  When that ceased to help, my Pitocin
	was stopped for the night and I was given more Demerol to help me sleep.

	Six hours later, Pitocin started again, and I was able to go 6 hours 
	before requesting an epidural.  The only pain I experienced during the
	insertion was a contraction that I just felt too tired to deal with
	(especially while sitting and trying to keep my back rounded for the
	anesthesiologist).  I could not feel the needle at all, nor did I ever 
	see it.  I think I sent my husband out of the room for the insertion.

	Funny story about sleeping between contractions...

	Late that afternoon, I'd wake up for contractions, then sleep in between.
	After one particular contraction, I fell asleep as soon as the peak was 
	past.  My husband (who was a SUPER coach), was concerned that I hadn't
	taken my final "cleansing breath", and woke me up.  The doctor happened 
        to be in the room at the time, and gently explained that I didn't need 
	to follow my breathing if I was able to sleep instead.
	I just laughed and went back to sleep.

	Forgot to mention, about the after affects of the epidural...

	I had no stiffness, pain, or weakness after my epidural.  I walked
	to the bathroom less than 2 hours after Emily was born, and 
	recovered very quickly.

	Hi,

	Thank you all for your support and comments.  I've extracted from
	your notes those comments that have encouraged me the most and 
	I'm going to take them with me to the hospital to read when I start 
	getting frightened.  Actually, I think I need to get in the right 
	frame of mind for the upcoming delivery starting now and to date 
	I've just been blocking it out of my mind.  It is now becoming 
	apparent that if I continue to keep blocking it I won't be prepared 
	and I'll do all the wrong things.  Now I understand the reason 
	behind childbirth class... to learn all those things that will make 
	your delivery easier for you.  

	I've never been good at relaxing but I am pretty good at talking 
	myself into a certain frame of mind so many of your comments 
	should help me.  

	Thanks!

	Karen

	P.S.  Here are the comments that stood out for me... 

================================================================================
CSC32::M_EVANS "hate is STILL not a family value"    25 lines   5-OCT-1993 10:01
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I always thought I had a low pain threshhold but had all three of my
    kids without any anasthesia/analgesia.  
    For me the major thing to remember was to remain calm and relaxed
    but it does work.  You do have time in between contractions to regroup
    for the next one.  The extreme  intensity doesn't go on forever, and ever,
    you have nice breaks in between.  
================================================================================
KAOFS::M_BARNEY "Dance with a Moonlit Knight"        31 lines   5-OCT-1993 11:43
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Once the labour starts you will be to busy to be afraid. And the
    pain has its reward at the very end.

    (my justification was always: "Well, other women went through this,
    so I can too")
================================================================================
SUPER::WTHOMAS                                       18 lines   5-OCT-1993 12:20
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    (I even wrote it in an earlier version of this notefile) that I
    would *never* have a needle in my back. After 9 hours of induced
    labor, I begged for an epidural which lasted for 6 hours until I
    started pushing. I would not have been able to do it without the
    epidural and yes I don't like needles either 
	Don't close out any options, take it as it comes.
================================================================================
CNTROL::STOLICNY                                     16 lines   5-OCT-1993 12:43
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    When I had Jason, I was open to the possibility of an epidural
    but honestly didn't need it.  
================================================================================
CARTUN::FRYE                                         11 lines   5-OCT-1993 13:06
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The thing I kept thinking that helped me most was "I can stand just 
about any thing for a minute or minute and a half", which is about how 
long a contraction lasts.  Taking it one contraction at a time and 
remembering that it will end may help you over the humps.

And remember the millions who have lived through it before you....
================================================================================
ASIC::MYERS                                          19 lines   5-OCT-1993 13:31
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Everyone's labor is different but you will make it through.  There's no
    way out but through 8^)  It was the most worthwhile pain I've ever had. 
    The thing is to concentrate on the end, remind
    yourself that it WILL be over and you'll have a baby!
================================================================================
MCIS5::WOOLNER "Your dinner is in the supermarket"   26 lines   5-OCT-1993 15:03
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    told myself I just had to WAIT IT OUT and if I tried to thrash around
    it would get WORSE.  That turned out to be PRECISELY my experience
    with contractions, so it was very good training!
================================================================================
WONDER::MAKRIANIS "Patty"                            24 lines   5-OCT-1993 15:21
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then I took the attitude
    that "well, this baby had to come out and I just had to deal with it".
    So going in I just kept saying "It will end". 
================================================================================
WKEND::MACARTHUR                                     23 lines   5-OCT-1993 15:35
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    something the nurse said to me - "just remember, with each contraction,
    that's one less that you're going to have!"  It really worked. 

I think the thoughts that helped me most were from my last childbirth class.
Our instructor asked us if we felt prepared.  I shook my head no.

She said something like "It's okay to feel scared and like you aren't
ready.  But know that you *are* prepared.  You can do this.".

Also, a neighbor walked by when I was very near my due date.  She'd had
3 kids and she said that the breathing really helped.

I think much of the advice in this string is excellent -- especially the
'take one contraction at a time'.  This helped me.

BTW, I had a spinal for my C-section.  Noelle was presenting her left
ear, and my 2 1/2 hours of pushing in various amusing (after the fact)
positions :-) didn't budge her.  I didn't feel a thing.  (I'm of the
if-I-don't-see-it,-I-don't-feel-it school, and I never saw the needle.)

Hope this helps!

- Deb

RE: .164  

I agree that having the right frame of mind is useful.  It helps keep
you focused.  I too found the breathing gave me something to do
and concentrate on.  Having my spouse there to help me breathe was
invaluable.

You mention "if I continue block it I won't be prepared and I'll
do all the wrong things."  Based on my own delivery, there wasn't much
for me to do that I could do wrong.  It wasn't as though I could make
mistakes during labor.  There weren't many decisions to make! This is an
inexorable force and event.  It's going to happen.  You'll be there, grunt,
puff, yell, scream, etc.  But none of that is wrong.  You're not being graded.

I also can't say that I was entirely rational the whole time,
especially during transition. The last thing I would have been 
able to do then was read! (I love the books that suggest you address baby
announcements during labor!)

Would I do it again?  You bet!  The end result is well worth it!

I agree with the previous noter in that you don't really have to know what
to do.  There are plenty of people there who will give you explicit 
instructions, so if you don't remember something from your birthing class,
it's not a big deal.

Heck, in my case, I wasn't even scheduled to start birthing classes for
another 3 weeks (we hadn't even done the hospital tour yet -- finding the
hospital for the first time while you're in labor is not a good thing),
so I didn't have a clue about what I was supposed to do. I distinctly
remember telling the nurses and doctors that I couldn't deliver yet as I
didn't know what I was supposed to do because we hadn't done any classes
yet.  They were very  good about telling me what to do and when so that
I didn't have to worry about 'not doing something right.'  And when you're
in labor, you really do lose a lot of inhibitions and you don't really
care about a lot of things.  So you can always rely on the fact that there
will be help in the labor and delivery rooms when you need it, and although
this is your first delivery, these doctors and nurses have been through
many deliveries, so they'll help you out. One thing that I did notice was
that the labor and delivery nurses were in a class by themselves and were
absolutely fantastic!  Those people really know what they're doing, and 
they will do quite a bit to relax you and put you at ease, so don't be
afraid to rely on them for help and advice.

I'm sure you'll do fine.  Just remember all the other women who have done
this before you and didn't have any classes for training. They delivered
just fine, and so will you.  I think we all go through this where we
wonder how we'll get through delivery. I figure it's a normal part of
pregnancy. 

One thing my childbirth class instructor suggested was to try to anticipate
different kinds of labors.  For her first child, she expected the "classic"
labor with long periods between contractions.  Instead, her water broke
and contractions were 5 minutes apart from the start.  It really threw her
because she was expecting to have at least 20 minutes to relax between
contractions.

I tried to envision 4 labors:

   1)  fast labor; contractions start at 5 minutes apart; baby arrives within
       6-8 hours.  This is the one I really expected given my mother's
       and sister's history; and the fact that I was 4 cm dilated at my
       last checkup before delivery.  And it turned out to be the one that
       I had.

   2)  "classic" labor: contractions start out mild; I'd be at home
       for a lot of early labor; would spend time between contractions
       reading, playing cards or walking around the maternity ward.

   3)  marathon labor:  some false starts where I would get to the hospital
       only to be told that labor was not progressing; they'd send me home;
       contractions would be on and off for a few days before labor
       really kicked in

   4)  being induced.
       This one has two parts:
	a.  having very intense, rapid contractions and a quick delivery
        b.  having no reaction to the pitocin (This happened with my
            sister-in-law).

I also recall daydreaming about bored ob/gyns roaming the maternity ward
observing women in labor and holding up score cards like in the Olympics.
My ratings were always around 3.5, 2.0, 3.9 ... :-)

    I what made me afraid of labor and delivery was not knowing what it
    would feel like. But actually I found that labor was not a new feeling,
    the contractions felt like STRONG  menstrual cramps, and I had already
    had plenty of those! I also found that it helped a lot that there is no
    pain in between contractions (unlike menstrual cramps).
    I played classical music and took a hot bath, and tried to relax every
    part of my body, as I had praticed in Yoga. This really helped , I even
    fell asleep inbetween some contractions. 
    Also on the way to the hospital I listened to a relaxation cassette, 
    and only thought of that. 
    When we arrived at the hospital I was going to ask for the epidural
    because I thought that it might get worse (I also HATE needles!),
    but the nurse said that I was already at 9cm and I was going to have
    the baby soon.  It did not get worse, pushing was not any more
    difficult than labor for me, so I'm glad that I did not get the
    epidural. (I've heard about some people having headaches afterwards) 
    Carol

    Deb, to comment about your type #4 - induction - 
    this can also be a third type - erratic. Mine were strong, week, 2 - 5
    minutes appart for a long time. Especially the first induction which
    from beginning to end was 32 hours long. (*I* certainly was NOT
    prepared for THAT!) With Charlotte the 9 hour induction was a walk
    in the park. However, not having ever delivered without induction,
    I cannot compare that with the "classic" labour. Maybe we'll try
    that this time 8-).
    
    

    Funny.Only yesterday,my and my SO were talking about "what we remember"
    from both kids' birth. I found that I was even sorry for not "being
    there" when Shachar was born (full,emargency C section). But I did
    remember the whole process of delivering Yahli.I was lucky since it
    took about 15 minutes from the first "real,strong" pain and 'till I
    saw her little head coming out. I think you're doing right,taking the
    stuff with you to read.It does make one feel better knowing she's "not
    the only one out there". One thing you got to remember.No matter how
    much it hurts- at the end of it there is a    BABY!!!!!!! your own
    little baby.
    Good luck,and have an easy birth.
    I'll cross my fingers for you.
    Rivka
    

    
    To the woman afraid of the pain/epidural.
    
    They don't always take you off of the epidural before pushing. For
    both of mine, I was on an epidural through delivery
    
    They don't always make you stiff. For my second, I was literally
    dancing as soon as the epidural wore off. 
    
    I have a low tolerance for pain coupled with a high fear of needles.
    What  worked for me is
    - I didn't have to look
    - It's for a finite time - I told myself overandover "I can do this"
    - The alternative was less desireable
    - * I Had a GREAT anaesthesiologist *
    	This is *key*. call the L&D floor, or better yet, stop by, and ask
    the nurses who's the best for epidurals. If you can, get  that person.
    Ask for hir by name..... they are not created equal.
    
    ask Wendy said, we can't convince you of anything. But, we can remind
    you of the reward at the end, and at least support you with our similar
    experiences
    
    Jamd
    

    
    Keep in mind that the placement of the epidural only lasts 15 to 20
    minutes or less.  Since I never was in labor with either of my kids (#1
    - placenta previa - C-section, #2 - planned C-section), I did not have
    anything else to keep my mind off of the epidural.  Also it does help
    to have a good anesthesiologist (I had the same one both times). 
    

    
    re .173.
    
    Not sure what you meant..."the placement of the epidural only lasts
    about 15-20 minutes"...?
    
    To get the epidural setup only took about a minute in both of mine, and
    I was hooked up to a "drip" system where the dosage was lower, but more
    constant... and longer lasting. :-)
    
    Jamd

    I think that what she might have meant (and it was true in my case) you
    don't feel the *full* effects of the epidural for about 15-20 minutes,
    it can still be vaguely uncomfortable until it really sets in (but
    vaguely uncomfortable was still immeasurably better than *really*
    uncomfortable). Once the epidural took effect, I felt nothing (even
    while pushing) until it was stopped after the stitching was completed.

    			Wendy

    Oops! I actually meant 15 - 20 seconds for placement.  

    
    As noted previously, Jonathan was born on Sept. 20th at 9:14pm.  He is
    my third son, but my first to have natural - the other 2 were planned
    c-section, he was a planned induction.
    
    At about 8:00am, the Dr broke my water and started an IV with Pitocin. 
    Within minutes I was in labor, with contractions every 2-3 mins.  I was
    about 2 cm dilated and 50% effaced when I was admitted, and throughout
    the morning, the pitocin was very effective in keeping the contractions
    going to continue effacement.  By about 11:00, the contractions were
    too intense to do much of anything else other than whine (-:  I also
    hadn't slept AT ALL the night before, so exhaustion was a key factor -
    that and thinking that there would be a period of time where the
    contrations weren't that frequent.  I was hooked to the monitor and an
    IV the whole time, so with the exception of a little trot around the
    L&D floor, I spent the whole time in bed.  By about 1:00, the pain
    started getting pretty bad.  Throughout the day, they continued
    increasing the dosage of pitocin to keep the contractions strong and
    frequent.  My Dr. came in and was happy with the progress, and kept
    asking if I wanted something for the pain.  I wanted to hold out for as
    LONG as possible before asking for anything, and figured that I'd
    certainly have enough time to receive something from when it went from
    "pretty bad" to "UNBEARABLE!"  Hahahaha!!  I had about 2 mins.  Within
    2 contractions, Everything I had learned in childbirth, and about self
    restraint was GONE out the window, and I was begging for SOMEthing!
    Having previously had an epidural that didn't work before, I opted for
    their second choice of pain relief, which is the Wonder-Drug, called
    Nubane.  Within SECONDS life was wonderful!!  Actually, it completely
    eliminated the pain for me, and the next couple hours I spent in and
    out of sleep.  At about 3:00, and Right on schedule, the nubane
    started to wear off, and I went from feeling pretty good, to incredible
    pain, within a few minutes.  The change in "comfort" was disturbing
    enough.  I had sworn that I wouldn't have an epidural, since it hadn't
    worked for me before, so asked for another shot of nubane.  The nurse
    explained that it's usually pretty ineffective the second time - and
    she wasn't kidding.  Finally, in sheer desperation for relief from the
    pain - going into 7 hours of strong contractions every 2-3 mins - I
    begged for an epidural.  
    
    Administering it was interesting, since I was having contractions the
    whole time, and you're under direct orders to "not move!".  The
    xylocaine and the epidural itself were uncomfortable, but compared with
    the pain of the contractions, you could've cut off my leg, and it
    wouldn't have hurt as much.  Plus knowing that it would bring some
    relief made it more bearable.  Within minutes the epidural started
    working, and was great!!  At about 9:00, the epidural started to wear
    off and they were going to "top it off" when they realized that it was
    ok to push, so stopped the epidural.  Once I started pushing, NOTHING
    at all hurt at all.  The baby went into distress during pushing, where
    everytime I pushed, his heart stopped.  They gave me some oxygen to
    help him out, and had me keep on pushing, even a little after the
    contraction ended, to try to get him out sooner.  After a little while
    of this, they decided to just go for it, as he was in too much
    distress.  The midwife did an episiotomy, and applied suction to
    Jonathan, and they had me just keep pushing, forget about contractions
    altogether, and just push till he was born.  Aside from a very
    temporary terrible-looking deformity on his head from the suction, he
    was just fine.  Phew!  She also said that had he been doing ok, the
    episiotomy would not have been necessary (I could've done without
    stitches (-:).  A few more pushes for the placenta, and we were done.  
    
    In all, the contractions were MUCH worse than any other part of his
    delivery - I had thought that the delivery itself would hurt, but that
    really didn't hurt at all.  After 13 hours in "hard labor" maybe just
    the relief of knowing it was almost over was enough to block any pain.
    And whoEVER says you forget this stuff, I think, is lying! (-:
    
    Since I was having my tubes tied the next day, they left the epidural
    in my back overnight.  I was a little sore from where the needle was
    (felt like a bruise), but other than that, felt nothing else from it. 
    In looking back on it now, I'd have to say that my first epidural just
    wasn't placed correctly.  Although when they tied my tubes, they had to
    increase the dosage 4 times beyond what they THOUGHT would make me
    numb, until I actually WAS numb.
    
    So, don't rule out anything, because you may just reach a point where
    ANYTHING is worth trying.  As someone else stated - the option of not
    having the epidural and living with the pain was certainly MUCH  worse
    than anything that could've been encountered in at least TRYING the
    epidural.  
    
    Good luck to those in waiting .... just remember, it WILL end!!
    

    P.S.  Oh yeah ... and for those wondering, if I had to compare my 2
    previous c-sections with this 1 natural delivery, I'd definitely go
    under the knife if I had to do it again.  This "natural" stuff hurts!
    (-:
    
    

    
    .177 makes me glad to be a guy!
    
    Simon

    >>>And whoEVER says you forget this stuff, I think, is lying! (-:
    
    Patty, many of the elements of your story were common to both my
    induced deliveries. And the first was 32 hours of induction (much
    of it was like that on and off).
    And you know, I sort of forgot the vividness of the experience 
    until I did another induction. This one was a picnic since the baby
    was still alive, and the induction only lasted about 9-10 hours.
    
    Its only now, pregnant again, when my husband (that rat!) reminds me
    of our labour experiences together, do I say "I'll have to do that 
    stuff again, won't I?" 8-).
    
    'Cept this time, I'm hoping to go into labour without help of my
    friends prostaglandin and pitocin. We have NO IDEA how this is going
    to work (fast labour? Slow labour? easy? tough?) Its almost like 
    having a first! 
    
    I also ripped both times (actually less with our 9lb3oz Charlotte than
    with our 6lb Daniel!) and had stitches. 
    
    We'll seeeeee...... 
    
    Well, congrats Patty - hard work but ya did it!
    
    Monica

    
    	re .177
    
    	Funny you mentioned the Nubane.  I tried that, too, because
    apparently I was doing well breathing (how can they tell?  *I* told
    them I was miserable!) and they didn't want to give me the epidural. 
    The Nubane didn't do a thing for the contractions; but between
    contractions, life was GRAND.  I remember thinking "Can I come back
    next week and have this stuff administered?"  :-)
    
    	Justine

	Well, I've already announced Lauren in the birth announcements
	topic, so here is my labor "story".

	Lauren was born after about 14 hours of labor on Friday, December
	3rd.  Wednesday night I had a burst of energy so I went to the
	fabric store and bought myself a stuffed bunny project.  I spent
	all day on Thursday making the bunny and wondering if I might
	be in labor since I was feeling slight twinges which seemed
	to be every 1/2 hour or so.  Thursday night, I went to bed with
	plans of making the clothes for the bunny on Friday but it
	just wasn't to be.  Turns out I had much more important things
	to do Friday!

	I woke up I woke up just after midnight to what I was pretty sure 
	were contractions.  They didn't really hurt but I was too excited 
	to go back to sleep so I started timing them.  They were only about 8
	minutes apart but by 2:30, they were about 5 minutes.  I let my 
	husband sleep until then since he was suffering from a miserable cold.
        I finally took a shower, did my hair and make-up and off we went to 
	the hospital.  Got there by 4 AM and I still wasn't in much pain. 
	My contractions had been 5 minutes apart but slowed down to about 
	8 minutes once I was put on the monitor.  They examined me twice 
	and both times I was only 2 cm.  The contractions were starting to 
	hurt but were still 7-8 minutes apart so they told me I was in 
	false labor and sent me home at 6:30 AM.

	On the half hour ride home, the contractions became VERY painful
	and I was quite upset since I couldn't understand why false labor 
	hurt so much!  We left again at 8:30 (my make-up and hair were a
	mess and I didn't care!).  By 9 AM, I was at the doctors
	office since I wouldn't go back to the hospital just to be sent
	home again.  Well, I was 4 cm so back to the hospital I went.
	I'll know next time not to go to the hospital if I am still able
	to do my hair and make-up.  

	At the hospital I wanted something for the pain but still was 
	reluctant to have an epidural (remember my fears in the epidural 
	note?) so I took a shot of Stadol at 10 AM.   It did nothing for
	me and relaxation techniques were useless since I just couldn't 
	concentrate.  I hate pain and just wasn't able to stand it.  

	So, guess what!!  I had an epidural at 11AM.  I was so scared
	of the epidural prior to labor but by the time I got it, I didn't
	care!  I asked not to be told when the big needle went in and all 
	I could feel for 2-3 minutes was something going on back there, but
	I didn't know what.  Then, I was told that it was in and they
	just needed to tape me up!  Was I surprised!  The next 2 hours went 
	slowly because they wanted me to sleep (I only had 2 hours sleep 
	Thursday night).  I couldn't sleep of course and by 1 PM, I was 
	9 cm so they started prepping me for pushing and delivery! 

	After 45 minutes of pushing, Lauren was born!  I had an episiotomy
	but I tore anyhow.  It was a forth degree tear, staight through
	to the rectum.  It took them 20 minutes or so just to stitch me
	up but I got to hold Lauren during that.  After a couple of hours 
	Lauren was taken to the nursery for her newborn exam and I was 
	taken to my postpartum room in a wheelchair since I was still numb.  

	The pain after the epidural wore off was awful!  I refused to get
	up since the upright position put so much pressure on my perineum.
	Friday night was pretty bad.  I got up once but could barely stand
	and had to be supported.  Luckily I had a catheter.  Saturday
	was still pretty tough but some Tylenol with codeine helped.  I'm
	sure I was a sight that morning hobbling down the hall with my
	donut cushion in one hand and my bag of urine in the other hand!
	It took me the better part of a week before I started feeling
	close to normal "down there".  Metamucil was a core component
	of my diet for almost a month though!

	So, now Lauren is almost 12 weeks old and I'm 12 lbs over my pre-
	pregnancy weight.  I haven't lost anything since she was 2 weeks
	old!  Oh well, she is worth it!

	Karen

	The "pregnancy update" note reminded me to put my L&D story here...

	Andrew was due on March 1.

	By March 4, I was 2 cm dilated, 0% effaced.

	March 6, I started contractions at 11:00 pm.  Contractions were
	20 minutes apart until 6:00 a.m on the seventh, when they stopped 	
        completely.  They had been quite strong, waking me each time and 	
	rendering me immobile while they lasted.

	March 7, I again started contractions at 11:00 pm (as soon as
	I laid down).  Again, 20 min. apart until morning on the 8th.  They 	
        stopped when I got up for the day.

	March 9, last prenatal visit.  I was 5cm, 50% effaced.  Had a
	Non Stress Test & ultra-sound done.  The technician estimated
	the baby's size at 9lbs, 11oz., but said the head didn't seem
	too big (at least smaller than Emily's 14 in.)  The doctor
	said call when contractions are 7-8 minutes apart for 1 hour.

	I went home, ate lunch, and started labor at 12:55 pm.  First
	two contractions were 10 min. apart, all the rest were 5 minutes
	apart.  I decided not to wait, and called the Dr. at 1:55.  The
	nurse said come right in, I'm not even going to ask the doctor,
	just get here.

	By 5:00 I was 6-7 cm dilated, 85% effaced.  At 7:00, they
	broke my water.  At 9:00 I got an epidural, and was still at 6-7
	cm. where I would stay for the next 9 hours.  At 11:00, pitocin
	was started.  Every 1.5 hours, the baby's heartrate would drop
	(the nurses called it "Brady's"), and the pitocin would be shut
	off and I'd get rolled around.  Usually, the resident or OB on call
	would reach in and tickle the baby's head, getting his heartrate
	back up to the 150's.  Pitocin would be restarted at a low dosage.

	This same procedure (Brady's, pit. shut-off, tickle baby, restart
	Pitocin) repeated until 4:00, when the Brady's stopped, and I had
	what was considered a "viable" labor (3 contractions w/in 10 min.
	registering 5 or greater by internal monitor).   

	At 6:00 a.m., I had still not dilated or effaced any further.

	The doctor asked what I would like to do, and my husband and
	I opted for C-section.  The baby was known to be very large,
	and there was suspicion that his head was tilted slightly back,
	and those things seemed to be preventing a vaginal birth.

	Andrew was finally born at 7:48 on March 10th, 18+ hours after
	regular labor started.

	He was 10 lbs, 4 oz, and his head *was* tipped back.  The DR said
	I may have been able to deliver him with one of those conditions,
	but not both.

	I didn't even consider the possibility of having a cesarian for
	my second, as I'd delivered Emily vaginally.  Next time, maybe
	the baby will come out my back ;-).

	Andrew got dehydrated at one day old - the suspicion was that he
	just needed more than the colostrum he was getting, due to his size,
	so we supplemented with 2 oz formula after every nursing for one
	day, and he recovered quickly.  He was also found to have 2 holes
	in his heart on the day he was to go home.  After an ultrasound by
	a pediatric cardiologist (on a Sunday, no less!), he was allowed to
	go home.  At his 4 month visit, no heart murmer was detected, so
	we believe the holes have closed.

	We've learned that our kids don't like to come out of the womb
	too quickly (37 hour labor with Emily) and don't like to go home
	too soon from the hospitaly (3 days for each kid).

	Karen

    Well, Alyssa was a very difficult pregnancy, labor and delivery.  With
    pregnancy, I had about 6 months of morning sickness, ended up getting
    the flu twice w/n the 9 months and at the beginning, lost 11 lbs.
    
    Labor lasted 24 hrs.  For most of the labor, I stayed at home.  I ended
    up getting the epidural - had no side effects from it. Delivery was even 
    more of a nightmare.  Alyssa's head was sideways.  After a couple hours
    of pushing with no success, they brought me into the operating room to
    perform the c-section (if necessary), but first tried the vaccuum -
    with no luck and then the forceps.  Finally, after 4 hours, Alyssa was
    born.  Little did the dr know, Alyssa's arm had slipped over her head
    and was preventing her from passing by the pubic bone.  With every
    push, her elbow would ram against that bone.  All they knew was that
    her head was sideways (they used the vacuum to try and straighten it
    out).
    
    The thing that bothered me about the doctors is that they thought I was
    this wimpy woman with no tolerance for pain.  Until Alyssa was born and
    saw her arm over her head, then they realized why I was "screaming" 
    so loud!
    
    
    

    Murphy's law: Whatever can go wrong will go wrong...
    
    You may remember my replies in the update notes talking about my
    midwives trying to induce labor in me and not having very much luck. 
    Last week we went in on Tuesday for another couple of doses of
    prostigel to try to help ripen the cervix, as usual when we went home,
    while my cervix was a little more effaced, it wasn't enough to really
    feel good about it!  On Wednesday we went in for Pitocin, I went to the
    maximum amount of pitocin and there was no change by the end of the day
    (other than the contractions).  After they removed the IV for the
    pitocin they did another dose of prostigel watched me for another hour
    and half and sent me home.
    
    Through Wednesday night I started having more contractions, by 4:30
    Thursday morning I felt they were regular enough to time and they were
    coming every 3 1/2 to 5 minutes, usually around 4 minutes.  I called
    the answering service for my midwife and had her call me back.  She
    talked to the midwife who would be on call through Thursday as well as
    the ob and they decided I should come in for observation.  By the end
    of Thursday I was fully effaced and had dialated over 3 cm.  They
    suggested giving me something to help me sleep since I haven't been
    sleeping well lately, I agreed, I was worn-out physically and
    emotionally.
    
    Friday morning there hadn't been much of a change so they put me on
    pitocin to help encourage labor.  It seemed to me by mid-morning Friday
    that everytime I had a contraction I felt like I needed to urinate, I'd
    sit down and almost nothing would come out, I'd have another
    contraction as I stood up and would try again, I'd just piddle... 
    Steve and I walked around the floor dragging the IV and monitor along. 
    By 4:30 they offered me an epidural and I took it gratefully!  They
    checked my cervix around 5:00, found that I was 4 cm's but that my
    cervix was starting to swell, so they decided a c-section was in order. 
    We discussed it and within 5 minutes of us saying yes I was prepped,
    shaved, in surgery and being given more drugs to make me really numb. 
    Aaron was born at 5:21.
    
    It seems that part of my problem was that Aaron found that my bladder
    made an excelent pillow and had blocked it.  They thought they had the
    catheter in to drain it, but when they opened me up they couldn't get
    past my very full bladder and had to drain it there.  We have Aaron's
    head being delivered on videotape, as well as them doing some major
    pushing on my abdomen to get the rest of the little guy out!
    
    Back to Thursday, by the evening I had developed a fever, so they put
    me on an iv giving me fluids and antibiotics.  They continuted that
    through MOnday, when I was released.  On Monday I had told my husband
    that I wanted him to go to work and he could pick us up afterward
    because he's been out so much lately.  So Steve got there around 5:30
    as they were giving me my last round of antibiotics and doing the final
    check on Aaron to make sure they were sending home a healthly baby. 
    Well, for the second reading in a row, Aaron was running a temperature! 
    The nurse wanted to check with the pediatrician on call before she
    would release him.  Around 9:00 after the pediatrician checked him it
    was decided that Aaron couldn't be released.  After 2 long weeks of
    attempting to induce me, the c-section and being physically and
    emotionally exhausted, I completely lost it.  My husband has never seen
    me so upset.  There was no way I would go home without Aaron, so they
    let us stay in the hospital room since no one was waiting for one. 
    Steve spent the night with me and we stayed there while they ran every
    test they could think of to make sure he wasn't seriously ill.
    
    All of the tests were negative, including one for spinal menningitis. 
    They did find him to be dehydrated and think that may have caused the
    fever.  They were also worried that he had gotten an infection from my
    fluids that may have been contaminated by the problems with my bladder.
    
    But we're healthy and at home and we finally are spending more time
    with him then just feeding time.  Hopefully Murpy's law will quit
    harrassing us, at least for a little while.
    
    As a side note, the people at Nashua Memorial hospital were wonderful,
    everyone in each department that we dealt with, and we're grateful to
    the nurse who spotted the possible problem.
    
    sandy

    re:	<<< Note 29.185 by APSMME::PENDAK >>>

    Great story....glad everything worked out so well eventually.

    When we had Anna, the next day I bundled our 3 kids in the car
    and ordered a pizza to have a party in the hospital and introduce
    the kids to their new sister.  A big truck slid on some ice and
    slammed into us and totaled our little Suburu....we were all fine
    but it was quite a night.  They got to meet Anna the next day.

    Something ALWAYS happens!
    bob

Labor & Delivery story of Lisa Hatch

Total Labor Time: 28 hours

Well, I paid for the easy pregnancy that I had, labor was hell. No
one tells you this. Sure there is some mention of pain, but their is
nothing that can prepare you for it. When all is said and done,
you're glad it's over, and want to forget it ever happened, and try
not to repeat the details to expectant first time moms, they don't
need to worry about such things. 

Labor started at 4:30 AM on Saturday 28th, I was already 3 days over
my due date. My water started leaking at about 10:30AM, it never
flooded, just leaked all day, I was able to keep up with it with
mega-pads. I called the Dr.'s office around Noon and he said to plan
on being at the hospital at 6:00, sooner if things started
progressing. At the times the contractions where 5-8 minutes apart.

We left for the hospital at 6:00. The contractions where fairly
consistent at 5 minutes apart. Upon arriving at the maternity desk
the pitocin sales pitch started. I wanted no part of artificially
moving things along. The push for pit may be well intentioned, but I
don't feel that it's necessarily in the mothers best interest.
Mother nature has her own schedule, I'd rather abide by it than
accommodate a hospital staff. Anyway, I made it clear that I was not
interested. The Dr examined me around 7:00 and I was put on the
monitor to get a base line. I was only 3cm. He expressed his
disappointment that I wanted to avoid the pit, he inferred that I'd
get it if I wasn't progressing in another hour or so. I'd never met
this Dr. (not surprising) and wasn't thrilled with his bedside
manners (to authoritarian for my likes). He finally did suggest that
an enema might help make some room and get things started. I could
buy that. It did get things rolling. Enter Hard Labor. 

I spent a couple sessions in the Jacuzzi at the beginning of
the hard part. But finally I was getting diminishing returns, and it
was to difficult to endure the contractions in the water. The Jacuzzi
did help immensely with the back pain I was experiencing on about 25%
of the contractions. Walking was out of the question (moving to and
from the bathroom was enough of a chore). I knew an upright
position was desirable but just could not manage it. I tried
kneeling facing the back of the bed, yuk, didn't help at all.
Sitting upright or onto one side was the only tolerable positions. 

Around midnight I asked what my pain relief options where. Nubain
was suggested, it lasts 2-3 hours and helps you relax between
contractions. I thought I was relaxed, I really wanted something for 
the pain, but decided to try the Nubain first. It worked, the next 
couple of hours where noticeably less stressful. However, it was all 
I could do to be led into the bathroom, I felt very light headed. 
Because of this, I declined a second shotat 3:00. I
must have been about 8cm by then. It wasn't until 5:00am that the
nurses came to a tentative agreement that I was fully dilated, but
they wanted to wait for the Dr to check. I had no urges to push. Dr.
Personality comes in shortly thereafter, exchanges words with the
nurse, puts on the rubber glove and waits at the foot of the bed for
a contraction. For the last hour or so, I've been using the squatting
bar at the end of the bed, this worked out pretty good, except it's
very difficult to rest between contractions. The Dr does his exam,
proclaims me dilated, snaps off the glove and goes for coffee. I'm
to start pushing.

Pushing isn't always a natural things. In the next three hours I
never got the urge to push. I had nurses yelling at me because I was
not pushing correctly. I told them I did not know what I was doing
wrong nor did I know how to correct the errors of my way. Finally
one nurse manages to position me and show me what I should be doing.
She also started counting as the contraction started, encouraging me
to keep the push for a count of 10. I don't think any of them
ever made 10, but it was closer than it had been. This pushing thing
was the pits, I had no idea if I was accomplishing anything (until
the last handful of pushes). 

At 7:30am, the shift changed. I've been in labor for 27.5 hours and
I've got a new Dr and nurses introducing themselves, very strange,
but, as it turns out, all for the better. The new Dr. had more
compassion on her little finger that the last Dr. displayed all
night. She was great, encouraging me, empathizing with the pain, and
apologizing when she had to do something that was making the pain
worse. This woman was hearing some serious cries of agony, as was
most of the 4th floor.  She said the magic words, "vacuum
extractor". Oh, yea, anything, bar-b-q tongs if you have too, just
get his baby out!

It took a contraction to get the extractor on the baby's head,
another push to see she wasn't going to make it without the
episiotomy. My husband tells me the Dr injected the Novocain and no
sooner put down the needle, she picked up the scissors and snipped. I
had this image of her cutting coupons, Jon couldn't watch after the
first snip. But that did the trick, next push and her head was out,
she turned and open her eyes toward Jon, he started crying. They
told me to stop pushing, but their was so much activity and people,
I hardly heard the order. It wasn't until hours later that I learned
from Jon that it was because the cord was around the baby's neck. She
slipped it around her head and told me to push. I was pretty sure
this would be the one to get the body out, so at 8:08am with the
last ounce of energy I could manage I expelled little Lisa into the
world. She spewed forth with a great gush and splashed down in the
waiting arms of the Dr. After the tentative wait to hear that first
cry, my first thought was "Oh, thank God, I'm done". 

Lisa was put on my chest within seconds. Her little limbs where
still bluish, and she was splattered with the white stuff and blood,
but she was perfect. They put a warmed blanket onto both of you.
The Dr. is down doing her thing with her sewing kit. The placenta
came out without incident. Sunday, January 29th was a sunny day in Concord.

    Congratulations!  It was all worth it.  BTW,  I agree with you
    about the sales pitch on pitocin...I couldn't believe the attitude of
    the Doctor when I refused it.  I showed up at the hospital 7.5 cm
    dialated but not really in labor/pain yet.  I opted to have my
    water broken with no pitocin.  My Dr. kept saying I wasn't having
    good contractions...needed pitocin.  I told him that I was in plenty
    of pain, and I thought they were very good contractions (this was
    my second).  Kyle was born 2.5 hours after I arrived at the hospital
     with no pitocin.  Why did I need it?  I'm sure
    it's a great drug when it's needed, but I think the Dr.s find it
    convenient for themselves.
    
    
    				Mary

    Well, I couldn't find any section on just C-sections right off
    the bat.  So I'll post my question here.
    
    Do you think I got a tetanus booster when I had my C-section?
    
    The reason I'm asking:  I had Angeline at the pedi's yesterday.
    I have a huge burn from a pan I got on my hand Sunday.  When the
    pedi saw that she flipped.  She put salve on it and dressed it
    (What?? Someone's taking care of ME??? 8-)  ) and asked when my
    last tetanus booster was.  Well I can't think of when it could
    have been, but I have this "memory" of someone asking me that
    and saying "well, if you can't remember at all, we'd better give
    you one".  Now I haven't had any injuries or emergency room visits
    since 5th grade.  But late last night I wondered if perhaps someone
    had asked me in O.R. when I had my C-section??? 
    
    You know, these things just bug you until you can put your finger
    on it :-).
    						cj *->

    I know exactly how you feel!  My husband and I recently changed primary
    care physicians.  Since neither of us has had a physical in a while, we
    both scheduled them.  At my physical, they asked me when I had my last
    tetanus booster.  I couldn't remember...  It seemed to me that I had one
    in the not-too-distant past, but I couldn't remember when.  So, they gave
    me another.  
    
    I had read that about the only side effect in having a tetanus booster
    more frequenty than every 10 years was a sore muscle in that area. 
    Well, my arm was REALLY sore for about a week.
    
    THEN... I rememebered...  About four years ago, when I had surgery for
    an ectopic pregnancy, they gave me the tetanus booster.  So, I HAD been
    given one within ten years.  It made me decide that rather than just
    keeping track of the kids shots, it's time to keep track of mom and
    dad's as well!
    
    Peggy

Geez, if I had a tetanus booster in '92 when I had my
C-section, I wish someone would have told me since I 
just had one a couple of months ago!  I suspect that a
tetanus booster with C-section was not a routine thing, though.
(Or at least not routine for my ob/gyn in '92).

Cuz it was my ob/gyn who asked if I wanted the tetanus booster
and they were the ones who did the C-section...

- Deb B.

    
    cj,
    
    I had 2 c-sections, and didn't have a booster for either one.  With
    both it was past 10 years since my last booster.  I had one a few years
    ago though ... call your Drs office, or maybe the hospital keep the
    record? and see if they have it on record.  You probably would've
    remembered your arm being sore ... mine was for 1 1/2 weeks ... ugh!
    
    -me!

    I don't know about this sore arm stuff...they gave me the booster
    and my arm is still fine today!  Maybe, because it was a pedi's 
    office, they had nicer needles!
    
    						cj *->

    Ok, Ok, so I'm having crow for breakfast this week.  No sooner
    to I put a note in that my arm was fine, when that evening the
    big hard lump swelled out and today, 3 days later it is still
    swollen, hard as rock, and has a huge brilliant red circle.
    Probably the size of a baseball.
    
    Hey Patty, with two days on a Demorral drip, I wouldn't have
    noticed if I had had a tetanus booster in my eye!  :-)  But I
    suspect by the reaction on my arm, and the previous notes, I
    didn't need this one!
    
    						cj *->

    
    
    Sorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrryyyyy!!!!  
    
    But really .... that seems a bit drastic reaction to it - may want to
    let the Dr know anyway.  
    
    I'll make you an extra drink Friday, k?? (-:  
    
    -me 

    
    Well, as was seen in the Announcments note, I had my second
    baby back in June.
    
    Labor was much different from Lauren.  This time, I had contractions
    for over a week (irregular).  Finally, 4 days before my due date,
    at 10:30 pm, my water broke, just a trickle.  The contractions didn't
    change from what I had been having all along so I told the hospital
    that I wanted to stay home and try to sleep (right... I was too
    excited).
    
    At 6 AM, I went to the hospital, still not in labor.  By 9 AM I
    was climbing the walls and the doctor suggested that I be induced.
    So, I was induced at had Brian just after noon!  Only 3 hours of
    labor.  I needed an epidural about half way through and when it
    came to pushing, the epidural wasn't strong enough and I fought
    the pushing so they made it a little stronger.  Seems they wanted
    me to know when to push so they didn't numb me as much as they
    had numbed me up with Lauren.  However, I could feel the pressure
    on the perineum and was convinced I'd tear again so I was fighting
    them and refused to push until they made me more numb (I'm such
    a wimp).  Well, Brian came out and only tore me just a little and
    I can't believe the recovery difference!  A fourth degree tear
    is awful.... this was so much better this time!
    
    And thats the story, in a nutshell! 
    
    Karen
    

    Our labor and delivery experience by John Flanagan.
    
    So let's see.  My wife, Beth, was due on September 19th.  Her labor had been
    completely uneventful.  Saturday, August 17th we went to a family
    reunion for the day.  The next day, Sunday, a shower was thrown for
    her.  This was a month before her due date.  The next night, Monday,
    was our last childbirth class.  And the next day, Tuesday, things got
    weird.  I had decided to finally work on the Baby's nursery with my
    friend Greg.  I invited him over that night to put up a border and
    chair rail with me, as he had all the way-cool tools to do it.  My wife
    got home around 5:00 pm and was complaining of strange gas pains.  I
    didn't think anything of it and went back up to the nursery.  By 8:00 I
    heard her drawing a bath and moaning.  She said she was having more
    strange pains, and figured that she was having some false labor.  We
    had been taught in class to try moving around or taking a bath or a
    shower which would usually cause false labor to stop.  Well, it didn't.
    By 9:30 I had my wife start timing the contractions.  They were 5
    minutes apart for an hour!  Needless to say we both starting getting a
    bit concerned and we called her doctor who told us to come into the
    hospital to have things checked out.  Beth was having trouble talking
    through her contractions, so she started her breathing exercises.
    
    Now, of course since we still had a month to go, we hadn't packed the
    suitcase.  Honestly, we were going to do it that weekend!  Fortunately
    for me [the lousy packer], we had written out a list.  By 11:00, I had
    sent my friend home and ran around frantically packing the suitcase! 
    Of course, your mind doesn't necessarily think straight under these
    circumstances, so I packed the car seat instead of the camera and
    camcorder!  
    
    Anyway, by 11:30 the car was packed and we were off.  It took 15
    minutes to get to the hospital [Winchester Hospital;  we live in
    Wilmington, MA].  We arrived at 11:45.  The contractions were down to a
    painful 2 minutes.  Beth insisted in walking up to the childbirth
    center, having to stop twice.  By the time we reached there and were
    officially admitted at 12:01 am, the contractions were down to 1 1/2
    minutes apart.  I can remember Beth saying to the nurse "Shoot me now! 
    Please!"  
    
    An internal exam was conducted and it was determined she was between 6
    and 7 cm dilated already!  She got hooked up to the fetal monitor,
    which helped me to talk her through the contractions, as I could see
    via the graph when they had peaked and were on their way down.  Beth
    was screaming for an Epidural [the E-word as the nurse would say]. 
    They gave her a shot of Nubain [sp?] in the hip to take the edge off. 
    The OB arrived at 12:15 and did another internal.  "You are fully
    dilated right now and by the time we get you hydrated enough for the
    epidural, the baby will be here; you have to start pushing!"
    
    "This can't be happening!", Beth said.  "I'm not due for another
    month!  I'm not ready yet!"  Be that as it may, at 12:30 we started
    pushing [ I say "we", as I held one leg, the doctor held the other leg,
    and Beth pushed].  Beth's water had not broken yet, but once she
    started to bear down  "GUSH!!!!!" and it broke clear across the room.
    26 minutes later, Kayla Jean Flanagan entered the world at 5 pounds 14
    ounces ; 19 1/2 inches long.  There is nothing I can say to prepare you
    for watching your new daughter enter the world.  It was the most
    amazing thing I've ever seen.  
    
    Mom and baby got to stay the rest of the night, Wednesday night and
    Thursday night, getting discharged at around 3:00 that Friday.  I'm
    glad she got to stay as long as she did.  The nurses and support staff
    were outstanding.   Beth is looking great, the baby is healthy and
    gaining wait, and I'm falling asleep on the keyyyyyyyyyyyboard now
    writing this.
    
    Starring, in order of appearance:
    
    Mother:  Beth Flanagan
    Father:  John Flanagan
    Obstetrician:  Dr. Charpentier
    Baby:    Kayla Jean Flanagan
    Pediatrician: Robin Smith

	Labor and Delivery for Lisa Hederstedt

	Total Labor and Delivery time: 47 minutes!

	Midwife guessed at 32 weeks total labor time to be 40 minutes
	from the first contraction I felt to delivery.  She was close!

	This was my second child, labor and delivery with the first was
	7 hours total and I ended up with 3 hours of pushing and 4th
	degree lacerations (9 layers of stitches - OUCH!).  Anders (1st) was 
	7lb 13oz and 20 inches.  Kierstin (2nd) was 7lb 2oz and 20 inches.

	At 32 weeks I had started to dilate and efface (2cm 50%) and I 
	hadn't felt any contractions.  Bedrest for the duration and 
	predictions for a *quick* labor and delivery (40 minutes tops!)
	The midwives and doc didn't believe I would last until 36 weeks
	let alone 40 weeks.  Kierstin decided she liked where she was 
	though and despite being 5cm 100% effaced at 40 weeks I hadn't
	felt a contraction.  

	We decided that induction was the way to go since if I dilated 
	anymore I might not have time to get to the hospital to have the 
	baby once contractions started.  I checked into the hospital around 
	noon.  The midwife broke my water about 2pm and we waited.  According 
	to the monitor I was having contractions up to 3 minutes apart but 
	I didn't feel them.  We waited and walked trying to get some painful
	contractions (strange concept!).  Around 5pm they decided to
	give me a "whiff" of pitocin to try to get contractions I could
	feel.  Got the pitocin at 6pm, contractions I could feel 10 minutes
	later and my daughter was born at 6:57pm with 3 pushes, no 
	drugs and I was *starved*.  

	Side-note:  For me, the numbers on the monitor registering the
	intensity of the contraction didn't correlate to the intensity I
	felt.  The contractions I felt registered less on the "rictor scale"
	(monitor) than the ones I didn't feel!  We never got that figured
	out as to why.?

	By 7:30PM, I was eating an Applebee's double cheeseburger and fries 
	thanks to my FIL and husband who ran across the street to get it 
	for me.  

	I wish everyone could have a delivery like my second! I felt great and 
	it was so much more enjoyable than the first time.

    Lisa,
    
    Congratulations!
    
    You aren't the first to notice the difference between the monitor and
    acual feelings.  I think it must have something to do with the location
    of the monitor and the location of your working muscles.  
    
    meg

    Lisa... oh, how lucky you are!!
    
    Labor Story for Holly Ventura
    
    At 39 weeks, I was 2 cm dialated.  Doctor told me he didn't expect me
    to make it to my next appointment.  I made it all right, and the one
    after that, and the one after that.  At 41 weeks, the doctor told me
    that if I didn't go into labor over the weekend, to check into the
    hospital on Monday morning to be induced, as the knew I was going to
    have a big baby.
    
    Well, 7:00 am, on Monday, nine days after my due date, I checked into 
    the Worcester Memorial hospital (an absolutely wonderful hospital to
    have a baby!).  They started me on Pitocin at 10:00 and I began feeling 
    some small contractions right away.  They upped the pitocin every 20
    minutes.  I wasn't progressing very well.  At 8:00 at night they
    checked me and I was still only 2 cm dialted.  Oh yes, frustration
    definitely set in.  At 10:00 I was still only 2cm, so they decided to
    lower the pitocin to level 2 for the night so I could get some sleep. 
    Contractions became  very mild almost immediately, and they actually
    let me eat a light dinner.
    
    The next morning, they started upping the pitocin at 7:00 am, bringing
    it up a level every 20 minutes.  by 12:00 I was 4 cm dialated, and they
    broke my water.  1:30 I couldn't take the intensity of the contractions
    any longer, and they gave me an Epidural.  This was great.  I could
    feel the pressure of the contractions, but not the pain.
    
    at around 5:15, they checked me and found that I was the full 10 cm
    dialated and it was time to push.  after almost two hours of pushing,
    at 7:00, my temperature had gone up over 100 degrees and the baby's
    heartbeat had gone over 200.  Call in the doctor immediately and the
    team of pediatricians.  This baby has to come now!  at 7:18 my daughter
    was born using forcepts.  A hefty 9 lbs, 7 oz.  and 21 3/4 inches long. 
    The biggest baby on the floor.
    
    Any little Alycia Rose is an absolutely wonderful baby.
    
    Holly
    

    .200> Any little Alycia Rose is an absolutely wonderful baby.
          ^^^
    
    But especially yours, huh?  ;'}
    
    Congratulations!
    Leslie

    Need a bit of experienced advise...
    
    
    how do I know if I'm just having regular braxton hick contractions or
    if I'm having premature labor. I'm actually uncomfortable today
    with my BH contrations. I have been diagnosed with the beginnings of
    toxemia, my blood pressure (for me and my normal), is relatively high and
    I'm in my 31st week. should my BH be uncomfortable?? normally they are
    just quick tightning, but today they are different. lasting a bit
    longer. Is this normal, approaching the final stages?
    
    michelle
    

    Michelle,
    
    Call your healthcare provider!
    
    Are you having more than 4 BH in an hour?
    Are you drinking water and staying hydrated?  
    
    Braxton Hicks tend to get more intense as a pregnancy progresses.  I
    was sure Atlehi was going to come three weeks early mine were so
    intense.  Remember they are practice for the real thing.  
    
    good luck and don't delay on calling the doc or midwife.
    
    meg

    Michelle,
    
    I heartily second calling your doctor.  I was 32 weeks and thought I was
    having bh contractions.  I was uncomfortable at work and during the
    evening.  I went to bed and woke up a few hours later.  I then called
    the doctor and he said go on to the hospital and get checked out. 
    Still thinking nothing is wrong, me, my husband and our 2 year old go
    off to the hospital -- an hour later Brendan was born. 
    
    Karen
     

    thanks guys for your very well taken advise on and off note line. I am
    feeling much better with lots of water, I'm going home to take a very
    large load off my feet. I'll be closer to the doctor also so that makes
    me feel better. 
    
    thanks bunches. 
    michelle
    

    Just and FYI, I was boarder line w/ toxemia on my first and my doctor
    said that the body often recognizes the "bad" enviroment and goes into
    labor earlier.  Andrew came at 35 weeks.
    
    Beth
    

    
    	That's exactly why I'd recommend contacting your
    	doctor, even if you think you're overreacting.
    
    	At this stage of your pregnancy, every day the
    	baby stays in the womb is a win.  
    
    	Karen
    

Premature labor may or may not be uncomfortable.  Pain
(or lack thereof) is an unreliable indicator.  If you're
having more contractions than normal, call your doctor.  
       

    Labor story for Ann Barndt:

Working together with God to bring forth a child was more incredible 
than I could've imagined.
                               
My mom's first labor was relatively short: about 12 hours.  I was 
hoping for the same; it was: about 14 hours.  But more than that 
I wanted it to be a joyful time.  I read a lot on husband coached 
natural childbirth.  I also had a lot of people praying for me from 
my church.  I highly recommend this combination!  My attitude toward 
pain medication was open, but it turned out I didn't need it.

I went into labor at 11:30 am, but didn't know it.  I had been having
lots of false labor.  As a matter of fact I had been 3 cm dialated 90% 
effaced for a week.  The contractions seemed pretty weak but they were
consistently 5 minutes apart.  I called the doctor but was hesitant to
go to the hospital.  I pictured getting to the hospital -- a one hour 
trip -- only to not progress with the dreaded pitocin looming large.  
(I *really* wanted to avoid pitocin.)  The doctor allowed us to go to 
my in-law's house which was about halfway.  Once there the contractions
were getting a little stronger, but were still only 5 minutes apart.
Now the doctor really wanted to see me at the hospital, I still didn't
want to go (I was a stubborn patient!).  He agreed to see me at his
office about a mile from the hospital.  At the doctor's I was 5 cm and
100% effaced!  I got to the hospital at about 6:30 pm.  So far so good!

Active labor started at around 8 pm, but was not really any worse than
bad menstrual cramps (understand I used to get really bad ones) but with
breaks in between.  The relaxation techniques and the special relaxing 
music tape we had prepared were helpful.  I would just think about how 
hard the contraction was working for me and how the door for the baby 
was getting a little bit bigger.  The shower helped as they got more intense.  

Transition labor probably started around 10:30 pm.  It was surely
intense, but I wouldn't say they were any more *painful* than the last
few active labor pains, which were low in the abdomen.  I would describe
transition labor as active labor contractions faster, closer together,
and with an extra component in the top part of the uterus, which I wouldn't
call painful, just strange and intense.  At this point my water still
hadn't broken, which I've heard helps cushion everything and reduces the
pain.  They had wanted to break it, but I figured it was a natural process,
why do it just to "speed things up"?  I had back labor, too, but it wasn't
    as bad as I heard.  The baby was in a posterior position and the
doctor had me labor on all fours for awhile until the baby turned.
The breathing techniques really helped and my husband-coach was wonderful.  
I closed my eyes to concentrate on the breathing, but could hear him 
encouraging me which was nice.  Sometimes women don't like to be touched.  
I liked holding his hand, especially toward the end, when it began to get 
tedious.  I almost panicked, but I felt God was telling me that the 
contractions weren't going to get any worse and that there weren't many left.
Three contractions later at about midnight, it was time to push!

All that labor where my job was basically to get out of the way and let the
muscles do their job most effectively was over.  Now I could participate.  
And what they say about "pushing feels good" is really true!  My water broke 
with the first push in a dramatic fountain-like display.  I pushed for about 
an hour and a half. I didn't want an episiotomy but tore exactly where an 
episitomy would be.  :-}  Stiches stink.

I feel that being educated and having lots of prayer helped me tremendously.
Just knowing what is going on does a lot to lessen the fear.  All I can 
say is the breathing and visualization techniques worked for me.  I know
everyone has a different story.  I feel so blessed to be given good memories.