Conference misery::feline

    When I had Nique spayed last year, they used a new technique
    for the surgery.  She had an incision the size of a dime on
    her belly after they were through.  They do all the surgery/removal
    through this one little hole!  The sutures were all internal, 
    too.  She was a little sore (she waddled a bit in the hind
    end when walking) but she ate fine, and rested a lot.  She
    had to stay at the vets for 2 days afterwards, because I didn't
    have a place to put her for recovery purposes.  (She lives in
    the barn)
    
    L- 

    Wow #1 - I just dropped off my Peaches this morning to be fixed
    and declawed this morning too!  I feel horrible!
    
    I took Mittens a few years ago and as we just got Peaches last
    year she was way over due.  She's part Burmese and the most
    trusting little girl.  She rarely ever lets out a sqeak, even
    when we moved, but this morning in the car she was yowling!
    Awww, she'll never trust me again!
    
    I can't call the vet until after 2 to see how she's doing, and
    I can't bring her home till either tomorrow or Thursday.  Lots
    of lovin' when she gets home!  (And I'm sure Mittens misses her
    terribly too...hmmmm wonder what he's getting into today since
    he's all alone?!)
    
    C.
    

    Another thing to keep in mind is to try and keep them quiet...to limit
    their scampering around after they feel a bit better. The stiches need
    to be kept as still as possible.
    
    They'll be fine
    
    Susan
    Rocky & Corky

    Normally any time one of my kitties go in for this surgery...I bring
    them home in the same day.   So it is my guess your little babies
    will be real good  when you pick them up tomorrow.
    
    When you bring them home in the same day...they normally are still
    a little "drunk" and still walk a bit funny.  But I find that most
    of the time they will just find a comfortable place to sleep.....and
    lay down for the entire night.   Normally the next day...they are
    eating and starting to play again...but you will notice they might
    sleep a little extra!!
    
    I know it's easy to say "don't worry"....but everytime I go through
    it...I still worry too!!!
    
    Sandy

	I brought our two girls in together for their spaying too, and it
	was awful (for me!).  They kept each other company, though, and
	were just fine and very happy to see us when we picked them up.

	One of the two, Jenny, was a good little patient, and took it easy
	until her stitches healed.  I didn't even have to take her back to
	check the incision, as it healed beautifully.  C.C., on the other
	hand, tried to pick up where she'd left off the day before, running
	and playing, so by week's end, her incision looked pretty shabby.
	She was taken to the vet, but he said she was healing just fine
	anyway (but she'll probably never be able to wear a bikini).

	Sandy

    I have a question:
    
    I have two littermates - a male (Snoopy) and a female (Can't
    agree on a name for her). When it comes time to have them fixed,
    I assume HIS recovery will be a lot faster than HERS.
    
    Should I keep them in separate rooms? They are furious
    wrestlers, and I'm concerned about Snoopy attacking 
    Whatsherface. (I know, it's awful, we'll agree on 
    something soon).
    
    Or do I just let them work it out?
    
    helen
    

    I took Cleo and Katie in the same day to be spayed.  I brought them
    home the next day and they did just fine.  I took about a week before
    they were feeling and acting like their normal selves.  Skeeter was a
    different story.  I brought her home the next day and she promptly sat
    on the couch like a human would do and pulled out every single one of
    her stitches.  I called the vet and he said just to keep an eye on the
    incision to make sure it didn't reopen.  It didn't and she was just
    fine!
    
    Karen

    That's what Feendoonie did! I brought her home on a Friday, and Sunday
    I went to check the incision, and the stitches were gone! They luckily
    didn't open either, so all was well. Scared the Bejeezus out of me
    though!
    
    Furby, on the other hand, came home looking for food, even though her
    back end wasn't sure her front end belongrd to the same cat. (brought
    her home the same day) She never even licked her incision! Go figure!
    
    They were both fine after a day or so though.
    
    Y

    Helen....
    
    I would play it by ear....normally a male does recover alot sooner
    but each cat is truly different as to how they deal with the surgery.
    I have had females who were running around and jumping the day after...
    but yet I have had one female who was real lazy for over a week.
    
    I also believe Snoopy will immediately know that WHATS_HER_NAME 
    (how about Lucy to go with Snoopy) will understand that she is
    hurting and probably won't bother her a bit!!  When I had two
    done together...they slept in each others arms and cleaned each
    other to get the YUCKY smell of the vet off of them!!
    
    Good luck.....Sandy

    Helen-
    
    The only thing to watch for is the stiches on WHN....
    
    How about Peppermint Pattie to go with Snoopy?  ("Gee, Chuck,
    that Snoopy is sure a different type, isn't he?")
    
    L-

    I had been forwarned about this but didn't believe it until it happened
    to me. Carly (now 2) didn't mind at all going to the vet UNTIL she was
    fixed. She stayed overnight and ever since then she HATES going there.
    She doesn't mind going for a ride in the car, but getting her in her
    carrier now is a major ordeal.
    
    She also had to wear the Edwardian plastic collar around her neck for
    an entire week since she kept trying to pull out her stitches. Although
    I thought this was incredibly funny for the first couple of hours, I
    also foolishly took it off prematurely and could never get it on the
    way the vet's office did, adding to her discomfort for the remaining
    time she had to wear it. My advice: DON'T TAKE IT OFF.
    
    As far as her comfort level, I agree with everyone else. Keep your
    environment as calm and quiet as possible. She had no problem using her
    box but didn't seem too hungry for a couple of days. I also gave her
    extra, extra attention (brought food over to her, layed her at the end
    of my bed on a really fluffy towel and blanket) and in about 48 hours
    she was walking around and a little more frisky.
    
    A large square patch (about half her under belly) was shaved and within
    a month or two most of it was all grown back. Other than the resistance
    at the vets now (we literally hve to pry her out of her carrier) there
    was very little emotional scarring for either of us.

    Mips and Belle went in the same day.  I picked them up
    that afternoon. 
    "They're a little groggy." said the vet.
    "I'm supposed to go out this evening," I said apprehensively,
    "do you think they'll be ok if my husband keeps an eye on them?" 
    "Oh sure," said the vet.  "They'll just sleep, keep them quiet
    and don't let them jump."
    
    We drove home, I brought them in, opened the carrier, they
    wobbled out, promptly hissed at each other, ran into the
    living room and fell down the basement stairs.
    
    I stayed home.
    
    The following morning Mips finished meticulously removing 
    the last of her stitches.  She then focused on re-opening
    the wound.  Mips went back to the vet, who re-stitched her
    with steel sutures, saying "This will keep her from pulling
    them out."  Ha!  By the time we went back to get the
    stitches removed, Ole Metal Shears had all but two sutures
    out.  My vet was so impressed she didn't charge me for
    the office visit....
    
    And you wonder why we get adult cats....... :-)  :-)
    
    Mary-Michael
    

    
    Thanks, everyone, for your helpful replies. I'll deal with
    this when the time comes, but I feel better now that I
    don't have to worry "but what will happen? Will they be
    okay?"
    
    The name suggestions were also helpful. The Man is
    still voting for "Zippy", but that's pretty bad for a girl.
    We'll keep working on it!
    
    Thanks!
    
    helen
    
    

    Helen...don't rush trying to name her...the right one will
    come along.   Some of mine have been called "kitty" for months...
    because I do spend alot of time trying to get the "right name".
    
    It will come.....and let us know what is chosen!!!
    
    Sandy

    Sandy - yeah, I know....I just feel strange calling her "Hey You".
    Even Snoopy still gets called "The White One" a lot.
    
    She will probably end up being named "Booboo",which is 
    my fiance's word for "cat". As in "LOOK! A Booboo!" :^)
    
    My personal favorite was to call her "Jabberwocky" -
    
    "Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
    The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!"
    
    And I wanted to run around the house going "Jabberjabberjabber!"
    
    The Man didn't go for that. I guess I'll settle for Booboo....
    
    
    We'll see!
    
    Thanks for the support!
    
    helen

    
    don't feel bad....
    
    Poor Abby was called Momma kitty for months!!
    
    When Van Gogh was feral...he was called the black guy!!
    
    When J.C. was feral....he was called Ugly kitty!! (he's beautiful now!!)
    
    And Bucko was called White kitty for months.
    
    Barkely was called Big guy!
    
    
    I personally love the name Jabber!!!!  Another thing I do is try
    to name that after their personality...or..the place I found them...
    what they look like...etc.   Example:  Dewey was found on Dewey St.
    Van Gogh is missing an ear...and Bucko is a wise guy!!  Have fun!!
    
    Sandy                                   
    

    But then you get people like Cindy Gerry who actually has a cat named
    "no name"!!
    
    Ugh!
    
    Holly
    

    My mother in law has a 14 year old cat named....MEOW!
    

    We brought th little ones home on Wednesday and they were still groggy. 
    Both were tired and slept all evening and night.  
    
    Abigail, the 9 lb one is fine today.  She has washed her stitches and
    the rest of her stomach but left the stitches in.  She is eating and using
    the litter box.  She is being careful how she jumps but is getting up on
    things.
    
    Angela is another story, she was only 6 lbs and is taking this much
    harder.  She was also sleepy when she got home and slept on the bed all
    Wednesday night.  Around 4:00 a.m. she crawled under the covers against
    me to keep warm and hasn't left since.  She stayed there all yesterday
    and all last night.  I picked her up and took her down to breakfast
    this morning (she hadn't eaten a thing since she came home) and she
    wouldn't eat or drink.  I took her back upstairs to the bedroom just
    before coming to work and she crawled under the covers against my
    husband.  He said he'd try giving her some milk when he had his
    breakfast (she's only licked the bowl after his cereal as we were
    warned away from milk for cats).  She hisses at her sister if Abigail
    pokes her head under the covers.  I wonder what happened to her at the
    Vets that didn't effect Abigail the same way?  I know she must be in
    pain but Abigail doesn't seem to be reacting the same way.  My husband
    is going to call the Vet today to see if we should be worried, I
    already am.
    
    Linda
    

    Linda...I truly find that each cat reacts differently.  Where she
    still hasn't eaten anything...It's best to have a conversation
    with the vet....he might suggest vitamins!
    
    Keep us posted....believe me they will become friends again!!
    
    Sandy

    Well, being a wimp when it comes to pain, I do exactly
    what she does...crawl away someplace warm and put out
    the "leave me alone" vibes....
    
    L-

    Don't worry, Mom, they'll be OK.  Hissing means "leave me along",
    just like Lynne says.  She feels like crap.  They don't hate each
    other, and in a day or two, they'll be back to normal, what ever
    normal is for cats!
    
    Mary
    

    I'm a little worried about her not drinking though;  isn't dehydration
    bad and something thet can affect kittens very quickly?  The vet might
    want to give her a fluid shot as well as checking to see that she
    doesn't have an infection.  To the vet.....
    

    Kittens seem MUCH better today.  Saturday I cooked some chicken, pulled
    it off the bone and gave it to the little one.  This is probably the
    first food she had since Tuesday.  She gobbled it up and asked for
    more.  The "hurt" is gone from her eyes too.  She and her sister spent
    the entire weekend out on the screened in porch.  They have the kitchen
    door opened for them just enough to come and go and they lay on the
    porch furniture and recoperated together.  The little one seems to have
    drunk a quart of water since Friday night and has been seen using the
    litter box.  They did have me worried.  Now I just have to get them to
    the Vet's in ten days to get their stitches out.  The little one looks
    like she lost some weight but seems to be eatin well enough to put it
    back on soon.  I still wish there was a kitty painkiller that would
    have saved them their misery but I know how difficult it would be to
    acertain the dosage for so small a being.
    
    Thanks to all for the support and I only hope we are ALL here at
    Digital for a long time to exchange information and encouragement.
    
    Linda

Gee, Linda, I know what you mean about pain killers, but really, it's probably
better that they didn't.  We humans take pain meds because we're probably
trying to do something that we shouldn't be, like jumping around right after
we've been spayed.  Being uncomfortable, however, reminds kitty that it's
time to be quiet until we feel better.  She won't remember and she'll be her
old self in now time.....

Mary

    Most of these notes are about spaying little girls, and when I first
    read them I couldn't relate to feeling bad about leaving them to be
    spayed because it seems the natural thing to do and it's done all the
    time.  But...  Today I took my boys in to be neutered, and I was fine
    until I was leaving; then, I got a lump in my throat.  I didn't want to
    leave my babies for so long!  WWAAAAHHH!
    
    I feel so bad.  The poor babies are getting the works done.  They're
    both being neutered, having their ears flushed, and getting a shot for
    earmites.  And Lasher is probably going to have some teeth pulled while
    he's under - his adult teeth grew in but the baby ones didn't fall out
    so now it looks like he has double pointed fangs - and he's got a small
    bald spot on his paw to be looked at.  And Nicky has some kind of rash
    in his ear and a bald spot on his muzzle.  Boy, everything is all
    happening at once - I guess that's good because it can all be taken
    care of in one vet visit.
    
    Have any of you ever heard of getting a shot to get rid of earmites?  I
    forget what she called it, but I asked her if it was more effective
    than the ear drops and if one shot will get rid of them.  All she said
    was that they would need a booster in three weeks.  If it is an
    effective cure, why don't we hear about it more & why don't they use
    that first?  I like this clinic because it's affordable and the people
    are very nice, but I'm beginning to wonder if it's the best place to
    take my moggies.  When I took them for their first vet visit, he
    droppered their ears for the earmites, but didn't tell me I would need
    to keep medicating them for at least a week to insure that the mites
    would be eradicated.  And, from what I've read here, continuous
    treatment for 7-10 days is the only way to get rid of earmites. 
    Although, that was the man vet, and I just generally feel more
    comfortable with the woman vet there (I've got to learn their names!).
    
    Any advice out there?
    
    Best,
    Michelle

    I just called the vet to check on Lasher and Nicodemus - their doing
    just fine, just waking up.  YEAH!!! 
    
    The other things that were checked turned out to be nothing.
    
    I feel much better know.
    

    I asked the vet about the shot for earmites: it's Ivermectin or
    Invermectin (I lost my note! |^).  It's for internal parasites.  Will
    this work on earmites?  They're not "really" internal, are they?  The
    vet said it would get rid of them, but the cats would need a booster
    in two weeks.  They flushed their ears while they were under, so maybe
    it will work.  [For some reason, I keep thinking that the answers about
    the Ivermectin were vague.  Guess I want someone to say, "Yes,
    Ivermectin will eliminate earmites."]
    
    Anyway, my boys are recuperating from their castration nicely.  I was
    supposed to leave them in their carriers to sleep all night, but Nicky
    wanted out so badly.  Then, the first thing he did was jump on the
    counter!  I watched him more carefully after that, and when he wanted
    up or down, I would tell him to wait so I could lift him, and he did!
    But I think he overdid it, because he was curled up in a ball in the
    corner this morning and didn't hardly twitch an ear when I called him. 
    He was much better today at lunch, but I can't tell if he's eating or
    drinking yet.  Lasher took a lot longer to recover from the anesthesia;
    even this morning his back end was wobbly.  But he's become an absolute
    purrbug!  It's as if my kitties have swapped purrsonalities.  Lasher
    wants all the attention now, and Nicky wants to be left alone!
    
    Does anybody know how long it takes for them to get back to their usual
    selves?  I have to bundle them up to stay at my sisters tomorrow and
    Thursday nights because my apartment building is being fumigated. (What
    a pain!!!)
    
    Best,
    Michelle

    So glad to hear they both did well...my guess is that tonight when
    you go home you'll see two kitties who are almost totally recuperated!
    they still might sleep a little more....but they will be eating and
    should be playing!!!
    
    I'm interested in hearing more about Ivermectin too!  I haven't 
    heard of that one...
    
    Sandy

    Ivermectin is the main ingredient in the paste wormer
    I give to my horses. (internally, by mouth)
    
    And you thought pilling a cat was tough! (;
    
    Lynne

    I need some moral support!  Nicodemus isn't recovering from his
    neutering.  He was the first to want out of his carrier and the
    anesthesia seemed to wear off quickly, but his left eye hasn't opened
    up completely since I brought him home and he's not eating or drinking
    very much.  What really made me worry is that I noticed his left pupil
    is not dilating.  So, I called the vet and they want me to bring him in
    tonight.  If he was eating and drinking normally, they would wait, but
    it took me a long time to get him to eat or drink anything.
    
    Do any of you have any ideas about what might be wrong?
    
    Thanks,
    Michelle

    I think you're doing the right thing bringing him in promptly, so he
    doesn't get dehydrated.  Please let us know what the vet says tonight;
    maybe Nic is just a bit traumatized.
    

  What did the vet say about the lack of dilation on the pupil. I would think
that he would question this as typically they should be of the same size. This
is an involuntary function which the cat cannot control and therefore would
indicate that something is wrong.

  When you say the pupil does not dilate I assume you mean that it remains
small since dilate means to become larger. If you actually meant to say that
the pupil remains open (large) all the time then the cat may be keeping his eye
closed to keep out the light which which bother him/her in this case.

   Either way it does not sound as though it it is normal.

Let us know,

		/Ken

    Ken,
    
    Yes, I mean that the pupil stays small.  He's not keeping his eye
    closed; it kind of looks like he's squinting but without the wrinkles
    (maybe his eye is swollen but it doesn't really look like it).  It
    really looks like the eye is lazy or something, it just doesn't open
    all the way.  It's not running, and he doesn't blink excessively, but
    the third eyelid is sometimes visible.
    
    I wonder if they could have damaged a nerve when they flushed his ears 
    for the earmites?
    
    He's not acting really sick, but he's not quite his usual playful self,
    and the eye thing really bothers me.  When I called the vet's, the tech
    called me back after she talked to the vet.  Because he's not eating or
    drinking very much, they're a little concerned.  She said it might have
    something to do with the anesthesia.
    
    Thanks for the input.
    
    Michelle

    Sounds like he might have picked up a bit of conjuctivitis or a URI. 
    Definitely contact the vet and let him know, and perhaps they can
    prescribe something without bringing him back.
    

   If it was conjunctivitis I do not beleive that it would have any effect 
on the pupil. My original guess was that it may have been an effect of the
anethesia. By now you may already have the real answer from the vet. If so,
what did he have to say and what is the outlook?


		/Ken

    Well, we went to the vet last night, and he said...
    
    Nicky doesn't look sick at all, just the problem with the eye.  The
    possible causes:
    
    		reaction to anesthesia (I forgot to find out if this would
    					eventually cure itself.)
    
    		he could have bumped his head and the swelling is affecting
    		a nerve (if this is true, it happened at the vet's because
    		         his eye was like that when he came out of the
    			 carrier.)
    
    	        or....
    
    		Feline Leukemia!!!  The vet said that one of the first
    			signs of FELV is degeneration of the nerves.  This
    			is a strong possibiliy, I think, because the
    			kittens were strays.  They could have easily gotten
    			it from their mother.  I asked if they should be
    			tested, but the vet said no, that we should recheck 
    			Nicky in a week or two.  So we'll see what happens
    			when I take him in for his Ivermectin booster.
    			WAAAAHHHH  sniff sniff!
    
    Speaking of the Ivermectin, I asked the vet about it, and he said it
    was just one of those things that veterinarians have found to be
    effective for treating earmites even though it is not specifically
    approved for that by the FDA.  My mom said that they stopped giving
    Ivermectin shots to horses because some had adverse reactions, but they
    still give it in paste form.  But the shots are still okay for cats?
    
    I think I'm going to switch vets.  I just don't feel very good about
    this one for some reason.  (Besides the fact that he talked to me like
    "just a layperson" who probably couldn't understand "vet talk" when I
    asked him about the Ivermectin.)  I think I might continue to go to the
    vaccination clinic there, but for other things, I'll go somewhere else.
    
    Do you think I should get a second opinion right away, or just wait and
    see if it heals up by itself.  In a way, I want to have them tested for
    FELV, but in Nicky's case, if he has it there's nothing we can do for
    him anyway. Right?  Maybe I should just have them both vaccinated; it
    couldn't hurt in either case.
    
    Still worried in CA,
    Michelle

    Michelle, I'd go to another vet and find out what's really going on.  I
    find it hard to believe that the FELV would magically appear
    coincidentally with the operation.  My guess is that Nicky will be
    okay, but an opinion that you trust will reduce your anxiety level and
    it might be that Nicky does need some treatment.  (My first cat had
    FELV, and never displayed a symptom like this.)
    
    The bit about not testing Nicky for FELV sounds completely bogus too. 
    At least you'd have more information.  A new vet......
    

   I would have to agree with the  previous reply in that if you want to get the
real truth then you should get a second opinion. There must be some reason that
he does not want to do the FELV test as they usually always want to run this
test if it not known whether the cat has had to vaccine before.

   One reason that he may not want to do the test is that this is a way of
increasing the possibilities of what happened. If the test was negative then
there would be less options.

   I would think that if the cat had hit it's head hard enough to cause the
swelling then you would notice other symptoms as well. And why wouldn't the
vet want to check into it further and treat it?

   I know that there are dangers in anesthesia on humans and would assume this
would be the case with cats as well. He may be just using other possibilities
to hide this one.


	/Ken

anethesia can even kill - it is hardly surprising that a cat can suffer some
side-effect from it.  It is extremely rare that it happens, but if the
person administering the anethesia is inexperienced, it can happen.  I would
first find another vet - then I would get both kittens tested so you know
what you are dealing with.  If the problem isn't related to FeLV, then you
can search further - if it is minor nerve damage, time may heal it yourself.
if it is something like a mini-stroke, then time and attention can heal
much of it, if not all.

However, I have to agree, the vets reluctance to test shows a "Cover his butt"
mentality that has no place in the treatment of your pets.

    Thanks all for the the support/advice/etc.  I'm calling another vet
    this afternoon.  The only thing that comforts me is that Nicky is
    playful and is eating and drinking now.  He doesn't look sick and the
    eye doesn't seem to bother him at all (no excessive blinking or
    redness).
    
    Best,
    Michelle

    
    Michelle,
    
    It might help you to know that I did have Stingo tested for Feline
    leukemia and he was negative.  I can't imagine how Nicky would get
    it from his mother and not have the rest of the litter get it too.
    
    Stingo also got a shot for earmites when I got him back in June.
    My vet said she preferred it to the ear drops becuse the drops
    make the ears sting and she saw no reason to put them through that
    for 10 days.  Anyway, the shot cleared him up and he hasn't had
    a problem since.
    
    
    Becky

    Thanks, Becky, that is good to know.  
    
    Poor Nicky is still scratching his ears like he still has the earmites.  
    I'll be taking them back for the Ivermectin booster at the end of 
    this week.  In the meantime, I have an appointment with another vet for 
    Nicky today.  I'm just so worried about him!  It looked like his eye 
    was better, but today when I went home for lunch it was worse again. 
    Compound that with sores from scratching his ears, shedding like crazy 
    (neither one shed at all before), not eating unless I coax him or it's 
    tuna, and I am one very worried mom!
    
    Michelle

    Michelle,
    
    I hope the shots for earmites work.  My vet just prescribed Tresaderm
    to be put in the ears for 3 weeks for Molly and Ariel.  I don't
    remember ever having to do it for 3 weeks before.  I thought it was
    only 10 days.  They either have a very bad infestation or the rules
    have changed on me.
    
    Hope Nicky is in better shape soon.  Maybe the new vet will have a
    better idea of what is happening with him.
    
    Jan

    Well, I just spent $33 for another checkup for Nicky (new vet this
    time).  Basically, this new vet also said to wait and see what happens
    with Nicky's eye.  One good thing, though: he did say that because
    Nicky's littermate, Becky's Stingo, tested negative for FELV, it's
    highly unlikely that Nicky or Lasher would have FELV since they have
    been indoor only since they were 4 weeks old.  Another good
    thing:  They noticed Nicky's bald upper lip.  I had asked my previous
    vet to check it, but he apparently just ignored it.  The tech thought
    it was ringworm, but the vet took some hair/skin (ouch!) to culture.  I
    sure hope it's not ringworm (especially since Nicky likes to give
    kissies all the time - yuck!), and I don't think it is since it hasn't
    been sore/itchy/red.  Although, I guess it could be in the beginning
    stages.  I know ringworm is a major pain to get rid of, and it's on his
    lip (if that's what it is) - how can you keep medicine on it there???
    
    Anyway, I should know more on Thursday.  I guess I'm relieved now.  At
    least this vet agreed that the eye problem is not life threatening.  He
    seemed to think that the shedding and not eating was just because Nick
    was taking a little longer than Lasher to recover from neutering.
    
    Oh, and he has gained a little over a 1/4 of a pound.  He seemed so
    skinny to me (maybe because his brother is a piglet!), but he is gaining
    weight so that's a good  sign.
    
    Michelle

Drawing on my medical expertise.....sometimes, after a patient receives
anethesia, some parts of the body don't kick in.  For example, a patient who
is placed on his/her side during a procedure might compact or pinch a nerve
and perhaps that nerve controls the foot.  This happened to my mother during
surgery and the very, very expensive neurologist said it'll just take time for
the nerve to recover and since it wasn't damaged it would recover fully.  This
might be what happened.  Nerves are weird little critters.  I'd just give
it time to recoup.

Mary

    I had a cat that contracted Leukemia and one of the first things that
    we noticed was that his eyes wouldn't dilate and contract at the same 
    rate.  It was several months before the FeLV came back positive though.
    He had always tested negative before that.  The theory was that he was
    latently infected with FeLV in his bone marrow, and the stress of an
    intestinal blockage and the subsequent surgery brought his FeLV out.
    
    I have also read that this type of changes in the pupils can be
    associated with FIP.  I am not trying to scare you, just to give you as
    much information as I can.
    
    Jo

    Thanks for the info, Jo.
    
    Boy I don't know if I can deal with this stress level for a couple of
    months!  Sometimes his eye seems better, and then it will get worse
    again.  And now I'm worrying about his lip, too.  The bald spot is
    getting bigger and it's swollen, but I never see him scratching it and
    it doesn't seem to bother him.
    
    I just don't know what to think anymore!  He plays like normal, and
    he's eating more (he's even eating some dry food now), but he cries
    alot and I don't know what he wants.
    
    I just got off the phone with the vet; he said they need another 7 days
    for the culture they took of Nic's lip!  So why'd he tell me to call in
    2 days then??  Anyway, they're going to give me some medication for Nic
    and told me to put anti-fungal cream on his lip (like it's going to
    stay there! ;^).  Oh, and they charge $55 each for FELV screening!  The
    clinic I go to only charges $12.50 each!  I think I'll have both cats
    tested when I take them for their Ivermectin booster tomorrow.
    
    Michelle

    A swollen bald spot on his lip?  Maybe this is the granu-whatsis that
    happens sometimes and is treatable with prednisone?  This is what Holly
    has at the moment;  it looked pretty bad -- swollen and mis-shapen lip
    and quite a large reddish lump under her chin -- but the prednisone has
    reduced it to just about nothing now, and she's only 1/3 of the way
    thru the medicine.  I'm fairly sure that the noticable physical symptoms
    developed in just a few days, or I would have noticed them earlier.
    
    Crying -- Little Bit does this when he's hungry.  The amount of food he
    eats has increased significantly since they all changed over to WD due
    to Sweetie's diabetes (the vet said it probably would), so you might
    try offering Nic more food when he cries.
    
    Differences in the rate of eyes dilating is something that "just
    happens" to some humans as they get older and doesn't necessarily mean
    that there's a medical problem, although of course I'd have it checked
    out.  My guess is still that Nic had some trauma from the anesthetic
    that might well heal itself.
    
    If there's anything I've learned from my guys' problems, it's that the
    worst usually _doesn't_ happen.
     
                                         

    The spot on Nic's lip was just bald to begin with, now it's gotten
    bigger and swollen, but it's not red at all.  I'm sure we'll know more
    in a week.  Hopefully, the anti-fungal cream will help.  It's really
    strange, because I don't know where he could have contracted anything. 
    He's been indoor only since he was 4 weeks old, and hasn't had contact
    with any other cats (except his brother) since July 18th.  But the vet
    did say that it could take this long for ringworm to show up from his
    stray days.
    
    I do try to feed him when he cries, and he will scarf canned food when
    I give it to him, but he has dry food available all the time.  So, I
    wonder if he's just gotten finicky since he knows I'll give him canned
    food now.  I just can't resist giving them treats (they love the
    Friskies sliced chicken in gravy!), but I don't want them to get used
    to canned food all the time because I need to be able to leave them for
    a couple of days with just dry food out.
    
    And, I am in wait and see mode regardng his eye.  But I am going to
    have them tested for FELV just to ease my mind.  Although, if Nic's eye
    doesn't get better, I'll have him tested again in a month just in case
    it's the scenario that Jo described.
    
    Michelle

    Michelle,
    
    I can't remember if you've already answered this somewhere but, are 
    you feeding them from plastic bowls?  Amelia developed a terrible
    case of feline acne when I was using plastic.  Bailey had a bit of 
    it too.  I've been using stoneware bowls for them since then and 
    haven't had any more problems.  May not be Nic's problem but it is
    worth checking into.
    
    Jan

    Yes, I do use plastic bowls, and I was wondering if he is allergic.

    Michelle,
    
    It doesn't have to be stoneware.  I just happened to find some 
    stoneware bowls on sale at Thrifty for almost nothing.  Any kind of
    glass or ceramic bowls would work.  Home Express usually has some
    excess or mismatched bowls on sale for a couple of bucks.
    
    Jan

    I just thought of the stoneware so that they'll match their water bowl.

    Hi,  It's me again...
    
    Just thought I'd update the situation.
    
    Nicodemus seems to be getting better.  His eye isn't swollen anymore,
    although it still isn't completely back to normal.  I picked up some
    medication for him last night for his lip, but it already seems better
    today (the med couldn't work *that* fast, could it?).  It looks like
    the hair is growing back, and it's not swollen anymore.
    
    Now for some useful information:
    When I picked up the med (Fulvicin), the vet wasn't there and no one
    could answer my questions (i.e. What is it? What's it do? What's it
    for?).  So, when I was at the drugstore picking up some anti-fungal
    lotion, I decided to ask the pharmacist.  He was very helpful!  I found
    out that fulvicin is a systemic medication for fungus, and that it
    should be taken with a meal.  I was so glad I decided to ask him,
    because the only info on the package was to give one now and one in
    seven days.
    
    Poor Nic, though, he thought I was trying to kill him with those pills! 
    And I had to do it twice because the pills were so big I cut them in
    half. He used to be so good about letting me handle his face and ears, 
    but not after all this!  I have to put the anti-fungal stuff on his lip
    everyday, too.
    
    Tonight, the kids go for their Ivermectin booster and FELV test.

    I took both Lasher and Nicky to the clinic Friday for FeLeuk testing
    and the vaccination.  Both tested negative!  Yea!!!
    
    But, today, I found out that Nicky does have ringworm. (YUCK!!!)  So I
    went home at lunch today and separated the cats, cleaned both litter
    boxes, and sprinkled borax on the carpets.  Tonight, I get to go home
    and wash/disinfect everything in the house.  The cats do NOT like to be
    separated; Lasher was trying to dig under the door and Nicky was crying
    when I left.  I put Nic in the bedroom, but I wonder if it would be
    better to put him in the bathroom (or I could just sleep in the living
    room on the futon).  I don't want this to spread to me or Lasher!
    
    sigh...
    
    Michelle

    Michelle,
    
    Glad to hear that both cats are FELV negative.  Great news.
    
    Re: ringworm.  When Misha came down with a patch on his ear, none of
    the other cats got it, including the carrier (at least, I think he was
    the carrier), Marnie.  I had a small spot on my arm.  I maybe wrong
    about this, but if Lasher (who's been exposed) hasn't gotten it by now,
    he's probably immuned.  Do give both of them the ringworm dip and
    disinfect, etc.  But maybe you don't have to separate them.  Good Luck.
    It lasted quite a while, before both of us cleared up.  I think it took
    Misha longer, but finally the hair grew back on his ear.
    
    Steffi

    There's a dip for ringworm?  Do I have to get it from the veterinarian? 
    I'm currently giving Nic Fulvicin pills and putting Tenactin oil on the
    spots everyday.  When a person gets ringworm does it look the same as
    it does on the cat?  So far I don't have any unusual skin "disorders" -
    I'm just wondering what to look out for.
    
    Regarding the other cat being immune...  If I read my _Cornell Book of
    Cats_ right, ringworm is very common but doesn't usually show up unless
    the immune system has been suppressed/stressed somehow (like the animal 
    was subject to anesthesia).  Lasher was nowhere near as stressed as
    poor Nic, so he may not get it all; I just want to be sure.  I told
    this to the vet's tech,too, and she said definitely keep them apart
    since ringworm is very contagious.  We'll see what happens; if they
    absolutely cannot stand it, I'll let them be together.
    
    Michelle

    Great news about the Feluk test........and I'm sure you will all
    battle the ringworm problem like troopers!!!
    
    Ringworm is one of the "things" I have never had to dealt with...so
    I have not suggestions...but please keep us posted!!!
    
    So so glad they are Feluk negative...
    
    sandy

    Oh Michelle, good luck with your ringworm battle.  There's a note in
    here titled ringworm.  I had to deal with ringworm not too long ago. 
    The key to this fungus is keeping everything/one as clean as you can.
    
    I wish I had separated my two when I first found out, because they
    would keep on passing it back and forth.  Eventually I did, and kept the
    infected one in the upstairs bathroom/bedroom.  It made cleaning a lot
    easier.  You'll probably want to barricade the door.  They managed to
    ruin the corner of my rug since they had to be separated.  
                              
    Although Fulvicin is a questionable drug I eventually put my two on it. 
    I would say that was the key to their recovery.  I spent lots of money
    on Conofite (a topical) and it kept on spreading.  
            
    ...Rania

    Well, I tried to keep the furfaces separated but when I went to bed,
    Lasher yowled outside the door until I let him in.  He was alright as
    long as I was outside with him.  I probably should have just slept
    in the living room with Lasher since Nic seemed okay by himself, but I
    wanted to give Nic some attention.  Hopefully, it's a good sign that
    Lasher hasn't gotten it yet, since Nic had this for about 3 weeks
    before I knew what it was.
    
    So far, I have completely scrubbed down the bathroom (it's cleaner than
    it's ever been!), and sprayed bleach solution all over the rest of the
    house.  My procedure is to spray bleach, then sponge everything down
    with a borax/ammonia solution.  Tonight I'll finish cleaning (like I've
    never cleaned before), then I'll repeat the bleach spray and a light
    sponge down every week.  I've confined both cats to the bedroom, so,
    hopefully, the spores won't spread to the rest of the house.

>    house.  My procedure is to spray bleach, then sponge everything down
>    with a borax/ammonia solution.  Tonight I'll finish cleaning (like I've
>    never cleaned before), then I'll repeat the bleach spray and a light
>    sponge down every week.  


    Might I suggest that you don't sponge down with ammonia (or if you do,
    you then wash it off thoroughly)? The ammonia smell could lead your
    cats to think that another cat "marked" the area, and they may try
    to mark on top of it for himself.

    Deb

    
    I found myself switching between my bed and sofa so that I could give
    both critters equal time.  It's hard to keep them separated though.  
    
    I even wondered if separating was any good as I wouldn't change my
    clothes when I visited with them.  But at least I greatly minimized the
    cat/cat contact, they could still play pawsies under the door. ;-)
    
    ...Rania

    Hi Michelle, I just skimmed some replies to get an update of N & L. 
    I'm so glad they were FelV-neg.  A product that seemed to work the best
    when I was obsessively cleaning my wall-to-wall carpeting from Jamie's
    accidents is Woolite Pet Stain Eliminator Rug Cleaner.  All you do is
    spray it on the areas SPARINGLY, wait 5 minutes, then sponge it off,
    rinsing the sponge until no more soap.  I may be taking a chance, but
    that plus 2 other products: one rug powder, one foam, were the only
    things I did to make the house FelV- friendly, to allow Nick back to his
    territory.  He seemed very interested in the carpeted landing where I'd
    left J's dish so after I cleaned it, I put a scatter rug on top and he
    leaves that in place.  It seems that FelV is spread a lot like AIDS and
    I doubt it survives in or is airborne very long.  I hope.  Lynne

    Thanks for the info, Lynne.
    
    I'm still in the process of scrubbing everything down; although, I have
    spritzed everything with bleach solution to kill any ringworm spores. 
    It took me three hours one night just to scrub the bathroom clean (it's
    a large bathroom but still...).  I still need to scrub down the
    kitchen.  My problem now is that Nic is feeling better and wants out of
    the bedroom.
    
    Both cats are currently isolated in the bedroom in an attempt to keep
    the ringworm spores from getting/remaining in the rest of the house. 
    This is going to be tough, because they have to stay in there for at
    least two more weeks and they really want out (Lasher is getting
    wild!).  It's going to be tough for me too, because Lasher loves to
    play in the litterbox making a huge mess (hope nobody wants to steam
    clean the carpet or I'll have cement like Jo did!) and a lot of noise
    when I'm trying to sleep!
    
    Michelle

    Just checking in for an update.  Nic's ringworm seems to be gone.  The
    redness is gone and the hair is growing back; there are no new bald
    spots either.  If I didn't know it from that, I would certainly know he
    was better just from his cattitude!  He has gotten to be a handfull! 
    He's very picky about what he eats, but will eventually eat the dry
    food I put out in the mornings even though he likes it better with a
    little nutritional yeast, babyfood, and hot water stirred in.  I think
    I created a monster when I was doing everything possible to get him to
    eat.  Now he cries whenever I go into the kitchen, and generally gets
    into everything when I'm trying to fix dinner.  He is filling in now;
    not quite as boney as he was before.
    
    He's also driving me nuts getting into things he shouldn't.  I have
    this cardboard three drawer thing that barely fits my alarm clock and
    answering machine on it, which he is constantly trying to get up on. 
    He jumps on the dresser and knocks everything off.  And, he claws my
    lace table cloth and my stereo speakers!  The word "NO" seems to have
    no meaning for him unless I slap a magazine on the couch at the same
    time.  But he is learning.  He has a tendency to "climb" (rather than
    jumping up) the cupboards to get to the bathroom counter or to see 
    what I'm fixing him for dinner, so every time he does it I tell him,
    "No, get down" in a firm voice and unhook his claws.  At the moment, I
    don't have anything that he can really ruin except for the speakers,
    but I want to break him of clawing everything except his scratching
    post (because someday I will have real furniture).  I guess he'll learn
    eventually.
    
    But, regardless of everything, I JUST ADORE HIM (and his bro Sir
    Lasher)!
    
    Best,
    Michelle

    I forgot to add that Nic's eye is back to normal pretty much.  It opens
    completely just like the other one, but there is still a slight
    difference in pupil size (but I may be overly sensitive).  I was
    reading in MEDICAL notes that pupils of different sizes are a sign of
    something very serious in people, and that's why I was so worried about
    Nic.  But I guess he's all healed up, now, whatever it was.

    Great news about Nic...glad you finally got it under control.
    
    Regarding speakers......I have a few cat trees...and a few
    other types of stuff to scratch.  In most cases my cats are great...
    nobody ever scratches furniture... but my little Poco...just loves 
    those big speakers!!  She just stretches up....and pulls her claws 
    down them!!!   Of course she is also the little sh**head that loves
    to tear wallpaper too.  She is the one that loves Water...so the
    CAT doesn't work on her...she just sits and squints as I spray
    cold water on her!!
    
    I guess speakers are just too much of a temptation!!!!
    
    Sandy

       Mine have done in the speakers and stereo as well.  They sometimes
    use their claws jumping up or down off the speakers and have actually
    punched holes in the drums inside, which of course are very expensive
    to replace, but also once they hit it just right so the wires got
    pulled inside and shorted out the entire system.  I had no music for
    6 weeks!  Wouldn't you know, the day I got it home and all set it up
    again, they punched a hole in another one of the tweeters....oh well.
    Luckily, it hasn't happened for a long time.
    
        Denise and the gang of 10

    I was wondering if there was some place to buy the "cloth" that
    covers the front of speakers, sigh.
    

    Karen, my husband asked me the other night if I could find some cloth
    to recover one set of our speakers.  I had no idea that such a thing
    existed but it's on my list of things to do.  If I find some, I'll post
    the store name.  Perhaps there are similar shops on the east and west
    coasts or maybe even a mail order place?  
    We are finally getting the house back into shape and with all the
    contractors coming and going, one of our cats decided to attack the
    speakers.  One thing is for certain, Chubs and Zelda are totally
    traumatized by the sound of a measuring tape opening and closing.... 
    Everyone that has been to give us estimates has used a measuring tape
    and everyone has made a comment about the cats being petrified of it. 
    We'll be having our "grand reopening" soon.  :^)

    
    	Yes, please do post it Cheryl, if you can find it!  Mine are
    	trashed too.
    
    	Thanks
    
    	JJ
    

    If you find out where this stuff can be purchased, please let me know,
    too. The speakers on my TV are the only off limit stuff that the FIRM
    (actually, Nikoloas) scratches.
    
    Deb