Conference marvin::uk_music

Strange then, how I find his last (not the current one) album, which my
house mate has on video, completely sterile and uninteresting.

I quite liked Crises and Platinum in a strange sort of way, and Tubular
Bells is very good (the oldest record in my collection I think!)

What do the panel think?

Mark.

P.S. I thoroughly agree with him, but manufactured crap pop has been out for
ages (Mud, Suzi Quatro, Bananarama, Kim Wilde etc [don't take the previous
ones personally, but I think they have all been manufactured, and have tried
with varying degrees of success to let what talent they have shine through])

What gives me hope is that bands like The Pixies, R.E.M., Diesel Park West,
Talk Talk, 10000 Maniacs, Talking Heads, B52's and Prince all do well. These
bands strike me as ones who went into the Music business because they like
doing music, and they do it very well.

    Good ol' Mike, eh?  He was moaning about this back in the early
    eighties (I had a few beers with him, namedropper).  He's a wierd chap
    atthe best of times tho'.
    "manufactured" music, as -1 points out, has always been around.  I
    think that a good tune is a good tune, no matter how or what it is
    played on.
    
    Yup, Mikes last lp is the worst thing I have ever heard, although I
    haven't heard the latest (Amarok), but Ommadawn - Brilliant!!  
    I think it s alittle unfair to criticise Mike aroundusing Computers -
    He doesn't use them to actually compose, usually just in his mixing
    machine, contrary to popular opinion, there are no synthesisers played
    on Tubular Bells.
    
    There will always be good music, and always be naff music, and there
    will always be someone admiring my bathroom.
    
    Mikef

    I don't think anyone will take notice of Mike Oldfield anyway.  He's
    a has been to most, and those who buy the naff music probably haven't
    even heard of him!
    
    I think somebody should do something about the likes of SAW and all
    these House pretenders, but Mike O's not the man to do the job.
    
    
    matty

Rather than live in a tent as a protest, why doesn't he sell his mansion and
surrounding land and make a proper gesture like donating guitars/pianos to 
musicians that are in need of them (SAW and related included !)

Peter

    He gave me a plectrum...what more do you want?!!
    
    Mikef

    I bought Amarok without any high hopes - the recent stuff by Mike
    has been pretty disappointing.
    
    After Amarok though, I think I can forgive him everything.  This
    has to be the best thing he's done since Incantations.   The music
    takes the form of one sixty minute track (don't know what the format
    is on the lp or cassette).  On first hearing it sounded extremely
    "bitty" - lots of disjointed tunes with no apparent coherency. 
    But after a couple of listens, the thing hangs together really well.
    There are about three main themes which are repeated through the
    piece with variations, and some lovely tuney bits which remind me
    most of the little tune on side one of Ommadawn (know the one I
    mean?)
    
    It sounds like Mike has not made any attempt to hold back on the
    layering of extra instruments, so that there always seems to be
    loads going on - and all of it sounds really good.
    
    I think that this album could be the rumoured Tubular Bells Pt 3/4,
    since there are many similarities with that album, both in musical
    terms and in the less serious bits such as the silly message on
    the sleeve and the spoken part towards the end of the piece.
    
    I haven't seen any reviews of the album in the press though (except
    a small one in the Daily Express). Is it possible that Mike didn't
    want reviewers slagging it off?
    
    Anyway, it's a *brilliant* album.  If you like his earlier work,
    please buy the album and encourage Mike to make more music like
    this.
    
    nick

    
    Nobody will take any notice of him anyway. What does the old fart
    expect to achieve from this ?

    Probably publicity for his latest lp?  
    
    re -2..ta, I'll pick it up this week.
    
    Maybe he genuinely believes in what he's doing?  Like I said, he's a
    wierd chap, with some strang attitudes.

    
    Am I the only one who actually likes 'Earth Moving' ?

    8*)

    But what do you think of Amarok Tony, and are you an Ommadawn fan?? 
    (its on of those lps that keeps me sane, I always play it at times of
    stress).
    Mikef
    
    PS  Mike may be a has been today, but he got to be one from originally
    having a lot of genuine talent and creativity.
          

    Hi Mike,
    
    RE your PS.  I know Mike Oldfield was good.  I don't know what he's
    like now 'cause I've not heard his later stuff.  I was just saying what
    I think the youth of today might think.  (why the hell am I being
    defensive?)
    
    
    matty

         
    I've never been a big fan - I do like Earth Moving and Tubular Bells,
    (Which I also like) but, I hate to admit, those are the only two I have.
                                              
    I haven't heard his latest so I can't really comment.
                               
    Cheers,
    -Tony

    Ratholes....                     
                                     
    Is this a discussion on the merits of Mike Oldfield or manufactured
    music?                                                      
                                                                
    Back in the groove...as it were...                          
                                                                
    I really feel the point is being missed.                    
                                                                
    The people who produce all this (IMO) junk are merely there to make money,
    not music. They are very successful at doing that and this is why
    they get sniped at.                           
                                                  
    But it isn't their fault.  It is the fault of the people who *BUY*
    the stuff. Nobody from the SAW organisation leads a 12 year old
    girl into a record shop and forces her to buy Kylie's latest. She
    does it because she wants to do it.                                
                                     
    Back in the 50's Elvis used to get a million advanced orders for 
    his next single before even he knew what it was going to be.
                                     
    Who's to blame - Elvis or the punters.
                                     
    The Sun comes in for continued criticism but 5 million people still
    buy it every day. Who's to blame - The Sun or the punters.
    
    We need to separate our dislike for the music from who is to blame
    for it surviving.
    
    andy  
                             

    I reckon you should blame those who put out the stuff, not those who
    buy it.  It's also Radio 1's fault, though they are changing policy at
    present.
    
    The younger types who by this dross just don't know any better.  They
    only hear what gets played on radio and so don't get the choice.  Also
    good taste comes with time.  It's like sweet and sour.  As a youngster
    we like sweets, but as we get older we get turned onto wine, stilton,
    or whatever.
    
    I think things are doing good at present.  Radio 1 has started playing
    more Indie, and more dance music, and flares etc have come `in', making
    groups like the Stone Roses trendy.  ie.  youe average 13 year old's
    tastes have gone from Bobby Brown to Ian Brown, albeit for the wrong
    reasons.
    
    
    matty

re -.1

`Wine, Stilton or whatever'.  Are they like Stock, Aitken and Waterman?

I don't see what old Mike Oldfield thinks he'll gain by camping out in his 
garden (apart from a bit of publicity for himself).  What's he trying to prove?
Is anybody really interested in Mike oldfield?  Questions questions...

Banal pop music has always been with us, and always will be.  It's part of the 
balance of things really...

Lee

    Here here!
    
    My sentiments exactly. I remember a few months back reading an 
    Oldfield interview in N.M.E. and judging by his tone the chap
    still has'nt forgiven Rotten, Strummer and Co for turning his
    his world upside down back in '76. I reckon the guy's hung up on
    the success of those who who never had musical training. Prize
    twat.
    
    
    Barry
    

> re. Note 693.16 by IGETIT::BROWNM "En-ger-land!"
>    
>    The younger types who by this dross just don't know any better.  They
>    only hear what gets played on radio and so don't get the choice.
>    
>    I think things are doing good at present.  Radio 1 has started playing
>    more Indie, and more dance music, and flares etc have come `in', making
>    groups like the Stone Roses trendy.

	Why do the 'younger types' in the first paragraph seem to be
	despised, whereas those in the second paragraph are seen to be
	doing the 'right' thing ??

	Surely hearing music on the radio, liking it, then buying it, is
	much more sensible than buying a record just because it's trendy,
	or because the artist wears the latest fashions !!?

	I think perhaps you fall into the second category....

		p1		

    Re .19  i think you misunderstood what Matty was saying.  The reason
    groups like the SR have started to be played on R1 is because they have
    a massive underground/non-visible following.  These groups getting more
    exposure has increasded their number of fans - ie Trendy.  A year ago,
    seeing SR and Happy Mondays on TOTP or hearing them on daytime radio
    would have been unthinkable.
    
    This all seems to be linked to the falling sales of singles -
    producing more dance and indie etc chart placings.
    
    
    Mikef
    

    Thanks Mike,
    
    I think alot of kids like the right bands for the wrong reasons.  But
    the thing is, is that you latch on to what's happening, which gives you
    a kick, 'cause you're there, you're happening.  But then you end up
    liking the music after all.
    
    New fad -> jump on the bandwagon -> end up liking the music!
    
    I only started buying Indie in the last 6 months, apart from Joy
    Division and New Order.  It's only because of it catching on that I got
    to hear the Indie records I now own.
    
    
    matty

    ...cont from last reply.
    
    It's like the GREEN thing.  It caught on, and we all became more aware
    of what happening to our planet.  I buy ozone friendly products now - I
    just didn't know any better before.

> re. Note 693.20 by SHAPES::FIDDLERM

	Maybe, Mike.

	All I was trying to pick up on from Mattys note was what seemed
	like contempt for people who listen/like SAW etc., because they
	were too young to know better, or are obviously 'not where it's at'.

	It's nice to know that R1 in particular are keen to give time to
	these type of bands. (I havn't noticed any during daytime myself),
	and I do agree that falling sales of singles may be the cause.

	It seems, however, that a lot of people have the attitude which
	seems to place the music 'second' to the 'hype' that surrounds it....

	"...so I'm conned by the hype and my mates like it too, and we all
	wear the right fashions, then the scene must be trendy, we must be
	trendy....oh and the music..er....well that's alright I s'pose...."

	If you listen to any Kylie or Jason tune long enough I know you will
	get to like it. Hands up all those who have caught themselves humming 
	one of these....(sounds of hands shuffling nervously in pockets)

		p1

    To paraphrase Kim Thomas
    
    
    
    IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII should be so lucky
    Lucky, lucky, lucky.
    etc.
    
    Bob
    
    p.s. Are not all recording artistes to some extent 'manufactured'? At
    least, those on major labels are; after all, they have to be 'marketed'
    as a 'product', and must have to compromise their 'artistic ideals'
    merely to get on in the music business.
    
    

>>>	If you listen to any Kylie or Jason tune long enough I know you will
>>>	get to like it. Hands up all those who have caught themselves humming 
>>>	one of these....(sounds of hands shuffling nervously in pockets)
    
    WHAAATTT????? 
    
    Speak for yourself, Pal 8^)
    
    Tony (hands firmly in pockets!)

    
    Kylie and Jason suck!

    suck what ? Each other ?
    
    Juju
    xxxx
    

    Very probably.
    
    And what does shufflinh your hands around in your pockets whilst
    thinking of Kylie Minogue have to do with the music, or am I getting
    sidetracked by Richs influence here...;-)
    
    Mikef 

    Hey, Mike, you look just like Black Francis...
    
    Only Balder......
    
    Juju
    xxxx
    

      <<< Note 693.21 by IGETIT::BROWNM "One love, one heart, one soul" >>>
    
    I think alot of kids like the right bands for the wrong reasons. 
    
    How can there be a right and wrong? This puzzles me.

    Don't you think it's wrong to like the a group like The High, simply
    because they come from the same town as all the other groups you might
    be into?
    
    It's hype.  "Oh they come from Manchester, one of them is Ian Brown's
    brother, they must be OK, I'll buy their records".  It's false, and
    it's wrong, but I do it myself.  I kid myself that it must be good that
    these bands are getting noticed, when they wouldn't otherwise.  Apart
    from luck, it's the music that should say whether a bands sells, not
    where they come from.
    
    
    matty

    >> it's the music that should say whether a band sells
    
    Unfortunately, it's the record companies who decide what is going to
    sell.
    
    Bob

    That's not so true nowadays.  More and more tracks make the charts that
    aren't on major labels, both indie and dance artists, who have control
    over what they do.  Also it's so easy to set up your own label.
    
    I have to admit; the more posters, the greater possibility of selling.
    
    It's a ratio of posters:possibility, not posters:sales.
    
    Radio 1 has a big part too.
    
    
    matty