Conference koolit::disney

repy to     < Note 30.0 by UBOHUB::ROCK_C "Fraggle" >

    Claire
    
>    As the holiday was not booked through a travel
>    agent I have no idea what the hotel is like.  It is called the Best
>    Western anyone offer any info on this?

    Which Best Western? as  I recall there are a few of them in the Orlando
    area. (Don't have my AAA tour book in front of me, look it up an home)
        
>    Also the car is being rented from Budget.  I have just heard through
>    a friend that they are not checking their cars after return, so
>    you have to check it over with a fine tooth comb.  Is this true?
    
    This is usually the case with all the rental outfits during peak times,
    sometimes when there are lots of tired screaming customers in the front
    office wondering were their confirmed rental car is, so as the cars are
    returned they sometimes skip a few details as  the  rush  them  to  the
    people  waiting.    (i've had this happen to me  with  Alamo)
    
>    Next.. How long will it take us to fly?  We are leaving Gatwick at
>    10.45 and will arrive at 17.15.  Being a bit slow on the time
>    difference etc. can someone work this out for me?
>    Incidentally has anyone flown with Air 2000 before?
    
    Well from Boston to Orlando, nonstop is just under 3 hrs, not sure what
    Gatwick to Orlando is (maybe 6 hours?).   If you know the number to Air
    2000 I'd suggest you give them a call,  they should be able to tell you
    flight times. Never heard of Air 2000 are they a Charter service?
    
    Claude

    Thanks Claude.  Air 2000 has apparantely only been operating for
    a year and yes they are chartered.
    
    I'll find out where the Best Western is.
    
    Claire
    

    Claire,
    
    I looked  around  last night for my AAA tour book and couldn't find it.
    (must of lent  it  out  and forgot about it) Maybe someone else who has
    one can provide you with how AAA rates it.
    
    Claude

    My husband and I are going to Orlando in October, and are staying
    at the Quality Inn East Hotel (Kissimmee) can anyone tell me what this hotel
    is like? 
    
    Also we are thinking of hiring a car from Alamo, do we really need
    a car or is this hotel near all the major attractions. i.e shopping
    centres and disney?
    
    one more question is this hotel near a beach if so how far?
    
    Thanks
    
    Karen Kilbane
    England

rep to < Note 30.4 by SUBURB::KILBANEK >

>    My husband and I are going to Orlando in October, and are staying
>    at the Quality Inn East Hotel (Kissimmee) can anyone tell me what this hotel
>    is like? 

    I  seemed  to  have  lost  my AAA (American Auto Association) tour book
    (time to get a new one) so I can't help you here.
        
>    Also we are thinking of hiring a car from Alamo, do we really need
>    a car or is this hotel near all the major attractions. i.e shopping
>    centres and disney?

    For the convenience rent the car, otherwise busse are provided by a lot
    of the hotel in the area, the hotel can provide you with info, but they
    tend to  run  on  schedules which may or may not fit yours, Not sure if
    busses are provided  to the malls, but some busses do go to the I-Drive
    area (International Drive) in  Orlanda  were you can go gift shop crazy
    at Sea-Shell World, T-shirt World  and  other gift shop's with world in
    their name.
            
>    one more question is this hotel near a beach if so how far?

    as in Ocean?  both  the  Gulf Coast and the Atlantic coast are within 1
    hour and 15 minutes away, if you mean a lake beach, when you purchase a
    ticket to River Country at WDW you can use the beach at Fort Wilderness
    on Bay Lake.
        

    Hi, I've found out the address for my hotel, its
    
    Best Western Eastgate
    5565 West Space Coast Parkway
    Kissimee
    FLORIDA
    
    So anyone any ideas what it's like?
    
    Claire
    

    Claire,
    
    I'll be picking up a AAA tour book today and let you know how they rate
    it, size, and other facilities they may have.
    
    Claude

    Claire,
    
    How lucky you are to win such a fantastic prize!
    
    We went there in September 1987.  We flew with Virgin Atlantic non-stop
    Gatwick/Miami and it took just over nine hours.  The tail winds
    (or whatever) were with us on the way back and we did it in less
    than eight.
    
    It's an absolutely magical place and you'll love it.  As I'm located
    in Reading I don't mind digging out my Disney info for you...contact
    me on VOGON::KCAMPBELL if you're interested.
                                           
    Otherwise, have a great trip!
    
    Regards,
    
    Karen

    Claire,
    
    From the '89 AAA Florida tour book
    
    Best Western-Eastgate,  rated 3 Diamonds (see note 13.5 for explanation
    of ratings AAA  ratings),  403  units  on  US  192, 2 miles east of I-4
    (around miles from Disney  entrance).   Has air conditioning, Color TV,
    phones, Htd pool, whirlpool;   lighted  tennis  courts, playground, fee
    for movies, transportation to major attractions, restaurant.
    
    Claude

    Before you take your trip, make sure you buy a book called "Steve
    Birnbaums Guide to WDW".  Study it....it tells about every attraction
    in the park, when are the best times of the year to go(least crowded
    times), about every motel in Disney and Orlando Area.  It will give
    you a lot of tips to save time....we consider it the Disney Bible.
    
    Lynne S.

    We are going to Disneyworld the last two weeks in JUNE!!  I have
    already asked a number of questions here and in Holiday_Travel,
    but one question I can't remember asking is:
    
    We have purchased the one of the packages offered thru the MKC-
    the Vacation Holiday I believe they call it, which offers x-
    amount of meals.. The Question - Are the TIPS included in the
    price of these meals, or when we use one of the chits for these
    meals, will there be an expectation that we leave a tip??
    
    Also, the information on the Character Breakfasts has been very
    helpful... my 3 year old nephew will be with us, and he is absolutely
    crazy about Mickey and Minnie-- we have been trying to decide
    which character breakfast to see AND had been leaning to 
    the Empress Lilly, BUT, where we will be staying at the Polynesian
    we probably will go there.
    
    Carla
    

    
    I too will be a 'first timer' in April....the first week, to be
    exact.  so, I have some questions.
    
    I have chosen one of the MKC plans...world vacation I think, where
    all the meals are paid for, 4 nites, 5 day passes, etc..
    So, where do I 'check in" ??? at the hotel (club villa) or
    at the TTC (or whatever)???
    
    Do I have to use the passes on consecutive days?  I will be
    staying for a week, so will do other Orlando things -- Sea
    World, etc.  And I would rather break up the WDW visits.???
    
    I haven't yet made any dinner reservations...should I???
    
    What's the 'hoop-de-do-revue' and should I make reservations
    for that now?  
    
    I have Birnbaums book, and am in the process of reading it,
    so I have all the pertinent numbers, just want some suggestions
    from folks who have been before.
    
    Oh, I should say...no kids going along.....
    
    thanx!
    
    deb
    

rep to < Note 30.12 by NSSG::ALFORD "another fine mess...." >
    
>    I have chosen one of the MKC plans...world vacation I think, where
>    all the meals are paid for, 4 nites, 5 day passes, etc..
>    So, where do I 'check in" ??? at the hotel (club villa) or
>    at the TTC (or whatever)???

    If you  reserved  a  villa,  then  you check in at the Reception Center
    located on Hotel Plaze  Blvd,  between  the  Grosvenor  Resort  and the
    Viscount Hotel in the WDW Village Hotel Plaza.    If  you are renting a
    car then take the SR535 exit off of I-4  and  follow  the  signs to WDW
    shopping village and Hotels.

>    Do I have to use the passes on consecutive days?  I will be
>    staying for a week, so will do other Orlando things -- Sea
>    World, etc.  And I would rather break up the WDW visits.???

    Yes World Vacation plan start  on  the  day  of arrival, you do not get
    world pasports persee, what you get  is a gold key credit card that you
    show at the special gates for resort  guests,  you  are  then  handed a
    special one-day pasport good at Epcot and the MK.   so  for the first 5
    day's  if  you don't attend the park, then you wasted a  day  abd  your
    money.
    
>    I haven't yet made any dinner reservations...should I???

    The sooner the better, since if your on the World Vacation plan  as you
    say, dinner show are included.
    
>    What's the 'hoop-de-do-revue' and should I make reservations
>    for that now?  

    If you can get in , then do-it it is by far the  best  dinner  show  at
    WDW.
    
>    I have Birnbaums book, and am in the process of reading it,
>    so I have all the pertinent numbers, just want some suggestions
>    from folks who have been before.

    You can make  all  your  dinner reservations (not including EPCOT) with
    the MKC #.
        

    Thanks all for the info so far.  Do all the hotels have Bars?  Only
    I understand that nightlife is limited and wondered if The Best
    Western has it's own bar.  I'm rather looking forward to watching
    American T.V., I hear it's unbelievable!!
    
    I've also heard about Rosie O'Gradys and I expect we will also go
    there.                                                       
    

In reply to .12....

> Do I have to use the passes on consecutive days?  I will be
> staying for a week, so will do other Orlando things -- Sea
> World, etc.  And I would rather break up the WDW visits.???
    
I had asked someone at the MKC# that same question  (since I had also
purchased one of the MKC vacation packages) and her response was
that it was good during your whole stay.  In other words, if you got
the 4 day pass and you planned on staying a week, you did not have to
use it 4 consecutive days....you could break it up during the week.  (I'm
hoping that she's right because I'm working up our itinerary based on this
info.)   Anyone else who has purchased a vaction plan experience this
    first hand?
     

Jean    

    
     Re: Consecutive Days
    
       Although I'm not a seasoned veteran like Claude and some others
     here, I think I can answer the question. If this is a four day
     World Passport, you can use it at any time during your stay. Not
     only does this mean you don't have to use it in consecutive days,
     you could actually use 2 days for this stay, and use the other
     2 for a visit in say, 6 months. 
    
       One thing I'm not sure about is how long the passport is good
    for, ie from date of purchase. I believe since they still honor
    individual tickets used from an old system, the passports should
    be valid for as long as WDW exists.
    
    George

rep to < Note 30.15 by ASABET::YEE_WONG >

>> Do I have to use the passes on consecutive days?  I will be
>> staying for a week, so will do other Orlando things -- Sea
>> World, etc.  And I would rather break up the WDW visits.???
>    
>I had asked someone at the MKC# that same question  (since I had also
>purchased one of the MKC vacation packages) and her response was
>that it was good during your whole stay.  In other words, if you got
>the 4 day pass and you planned on staying a week, you did not have to
>use it 4 consecutive days....you could break it up during the week.  (I'm
>hoping that she's right because I'm working up our itinerary based on this
>info.)   Anyone else who has purchased a vaction plan experience this
>    first hand?

    See .13, in .12 she had stated she had reserved the World Vacation plan
    that is  done  differently  (at  least  in  '84 and '87).  On the World
    Vacation plan, the one that has 3 meals a day, and unlimited use of the
    parks for x days,  the  answer  is  yes  it must be done consecutively,
    since they would have a  accounting  nightmare  trying  to separate the
    day's you wish to do meals from day's you wish to attend parks.  On the
    Grand  Plan (Grand Floridian) and the World  Vacation  plan,  the  plan
    start ticking away at the time of arrival,  you  will  not  be  able to
    break up the day's unless of course you are  willing to forfeit some of
    you  benefits  and  thereby spending dollars foolishly.  On my  last  2
    trip's  both  World Vacations, this was the answers I got, so  I  added
    extra night of lodging for the day's I wish to sight see off-site, like
    Busch Gardens etc.  As I stated in .13, on the World vacation  you  get
    the  GOLD  KEY card, which is like a pay inadvance credit card, you use
    this to pay  for  meals, rent boats and purchase special one-day passes
    good at all the  parks  (diferent from the normal one day pass/one park
    ticket)

    On some of the other plans they do in fact give you a multi-day passport
    upon arrival and that is good forever, say you have a 4 day passport you
    could do 2 day no consecutive  this  time,  and 2 years from now do the
    remaining 2 day's if you wish.

    Re: .0
    
    I read an article in a newspaper at the weekend regarding a survey
    carried out by Holiday Which?  The survey was based on assessments
    made by 15,000 Consumer Association members on their most recent
    flights (excluding first or business class) since September 1987.
    It covered catering, value for money, service and comfort.
    
    Air 2000 was the only UK airline to feature in the first division*
    of carriers surveyed!  In case you didn't know, it said this is a
    Manchester-based airline with only four jets and was started up
    less than two years ago.  Looks like you're in for a treat,
    Claire.
    
    	* The top two divisions are rated above average, the third average
          and the bottom two below average.
          
         
    Other airlines in this division are Wardair, Singapore Airlines,
    Cathay Pacific and Swissair.
                          
    Karen
    

    
    Well, in answer to one of my own questions....I tried calling
    for reservations to the 'hoop-dee-doo-revue' for the week
    in April I will be there---nothing except the 10 pm show!
    
    Guess I should have found this file earlier!!!
    
    deb
    

rep to < Note 30.19 by NSSG::ALFORD "another fine mess...." >
    
>    Well, in answer to one of my own questions....I tried calling
>    for reservations to the 'hoop-dee-doo-revue' for the week
>    in April I will be there---nothing except the 10 pm show!
>    
>    Guess I should have found this file earlier!!!

    Deb
    
    The person at the MKC when you  make you lodging reservations, and once
    I had been confirmed for the lodging, would alway  ask  me if I wish to
    make any dinner reservations at this time.
    
    Also if you had waited until you arrived, chances are  there  would  be
    nothing  available,  since  off-site guest can only make reservation 30
    day's prior to arrival.  So you can see how popular this show is, since
    it would appear  the  5:00  and 7:30 were booked totally by the on-site
    guests.
    
    Claude
    

    Thanks Karen, at last some info on this airline.  It's comforting
    to know that they've been heard of let alone be this good.  We were
    wondering what they were like because we were told it was a 757
    (smaller than a Jumbo).  I have long legs and am always worried
    about the lack of room to stretch them out.
    
    Thanks again
    
    Claire
    

    What the devil is the "Hoop-dee-doo-revue"  and how much is it?
    
    Claire
    

rep to < Note 30.22 by UBOHUB::ROCK_C "Fraggle" >

>    What the devil is the "Hoop-dee-doo-revue"  and how much is it?
    
    Claire

    As was stated  in other notes, it a Dinner show at Pioneer Hall in Fort
    Wilderness Campground (by far the best one  in  WDW).  Meal consist of,
    barbecue  ribs, fried chicken, corn on the cob,  beans,  bread,  pickle
    tray, and  strawberry  shortcake,  and  includes  your  choice of Beer,
    Sangria or coke (meal is  served  familly  style,  ie.   on platters of
    which each person picks off of, drinks by the pitcher).  The performers
    (also waiters) sing dance and joke around  a lot, and perform a play at
    the end with members of the audience.  Cost is somewhere around $25 now
    I think, was $22.50 in '87.
    
    Claude
    

    
    I made my Aug/89 on-site Polynesian Hotel reservations in July/88
    via Central Reservations  WDW. When I talked with them for a while,
    I learned that ON-site hotel reservations could start booking as
    far as 2 years in advance.
    
    The reservations for Hoop-dee-doo, Luau, etc could start booking
    about as far (for confirmed on-site guest reservations).
    
    As you can see, most everything that has reservations at WDW is
    so popular you REALLY NEED TO PLAN IN ADVANCE, or take pot-luck
    
    Mark
    
    

    RE: Hoop-Dee-Doo...
    
    >Cost is somewhere around $25 now I think, was $22.50 in '87.

    2 adults, 3 kids (3-11 range) cost us roughly $110 including tax.
    "Gratuity not included in ticket price".  I think the published
    price is $29 adults, around $15/child age 3-11 (under 3 free, over
    11 full price).
    
    And, if you can't get a reservation, don't give up!  Go to the Pioneer
    Hall ticket window 45 minutes before showtime, and ask to be put
    on the waiting list.  Then go down to the Settlement Trading Post,
    grab a couple of beers, sit on the porch outside Crockett's
    Tavern, cross your fingers, and wait it out.  We got in that way.
    
    Also, if you're a resort guest, you can call 824-2748 (7-2748 within
    FW) on the day of the show to check for cancellations.
    

    Here's another question..
    
    How long will it take us to drive to the Everglades from Kissimee?
    
    Also are there hotels/motels in that area so that if it is a long
    drive we can book in over night? 
    
    We will only be in a small car.
    
    Claire
    

    moved my moderator, original note 56 deleted
    
    Claude
    
                <<< INDMKT::DUA0:[NOTES$LIBRARY]DISNEY.NOTE;1 >>>
                                 -< Disneyana >-
================================================================================
Note 56.0                   IS THERE ANYBODY THERE???                    1 reply
UBOHUB::ROCK_C "Fraggle"                              9 lines  22-MAR-1989 09:10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    WHERE HAVE YOU ALL GONE TO?
    
    Can some kind person read reply 26 to note 30 and give us a clue.
    
    Seeya all
    
    
    Claire
    

rep to  < Note 30.26 by UBOHUB::ROCK_C "Fraggle" >

>    How long will it take us to drive to the Everglades from Kissimee?
    
    Claire,
    
    According to  my  AAA tour book, the entrance to the Everglade National
    Park is about 245 miles  from  Kissimmee,  I'm  not sure of the type of
    roads, through towns etc (never been there), so plan on spending a good
    portion of a day getting there.  
    
>    Also are there hotels/motels in that area so that if it is a long
>    drive we can book in over night? 
    
    There are  no  Hotels  in  the  Park,  but  there  are  some  nearby in
    Naples (Gulf of Mexico side), and the Coral Gables/Miami Area (Atlantic
    side).
    
    Claude

    I can't remember if this question got answered.  
    
    We are going for our first time this June and are using the Vacation
    Kingdom plan, which pays for so many meals.
    
    MY QUESTION to those who have used this type of plan, are the tips
    included with the meal, or should we leave one?
    
    Carla
    

    
    15% tips are include with the plans and they get added to the bill.
    
    We found that a good percentage of our waitresses were deserving
    of more than the 15% and sometimes left more.
    
SEAN/BEER=LABATTS

    I've only just found this notes file and need some urgent advise. 
    Firstly let me introduce myself, i'm Chris Larkman and i'm based 
    in the the U.K. on Saturday 8th July my wife a friend and myself
    are flying out to Orlando from the U.K. for a week in Orlando and
    a week in Miami. (This is our holiday of a lifetime). To avoid 
    having to read through every note could someone answer some questions
    I have.
    
    1) No-one in the U.K. seems to know where I can get hold of a
    membership to the Magic Kingdom Club. Am I too late? if not can
    someone help me out.
    
    2) What is the current price for entrance to the Kingdom including
    Epcot and all the peripherals?
    
    3) Were staying at the Delta Court of Flags in Orlando for the first
    week, whats it like and how far is it to the Disney complex?
    
    4) We are travelling by car from Orlando to Miami for the second
    week and want to avoid the main route or highway (i'm not very good
    at the American language!!!!) and tke in the back roads etc, has
    anyone any good advice?
    
    
    Any help and advise will be greatly appreciated. 
    
    
    5 days and counting.
    
    Cheers
    
    Chris
    

    This is the long Independence Day weekend in the US, and Digital
    has Monday and Tuesday off.  Don't panic if you don't get a lot
    of quick replies to your questions.  By Wednesday the Disney-holics
    in this conference will be back with more advise than you can handle.
    
    In the mean time, I'll try to give you some pointers.
    
>    1) No-one in the U.K. seems to know where I can get hold of a
>    membership to the Magic Kingdom Club. Am I too late? if not can
>    someone help me out.

    See note 2.*
    
>    2) What is the current price for entrance to the Kingdom including
>    Epcot and all the peripherals?
    
    See note 96.1

>    3) Were staying at the Delta Court of Flags in Orlando for the first
>    week, whats it like and how far is it to the Disney complex?

    The Birnbaum guide book lists it in the Florida Center area (near
    International Drive) about 10 miles north of WDW, about a 15 minute
    drive.
    
    BTW, if you haven't got the Birnbaum guide book yet, get it and
    study it. (That will give you something to do on the plane.)  If
    you can't get it in the UK, pick it up first thing when you get
    to the States.  It will save you much time and aggravation avoiding
    lines, and attractions you may not be interested in, as well as point
    you to some of the hidden gems of WDW.  See note 43.* for details. 

>    4) We are traveling by car from Orlando to Miami for the second
>    week and want to avoid the main route or highway (I'm not very good
>    at the American language!!!!) and the in the back roads etc., has
>    anyone any good advice?

    I wouldn't bother.  The direct route is Florida's Turnpike.  Orlando -
    Miami is listed as 237 miles, about 5 hours.  There isn't much to see
    through the middle of the state.  
    
    You could cut over to the east coast, and take I-95 south to Miami (246
    miles).  That way you could take periodic detours along Florida route
    A1A or U.S. 1 which parallel I-95 right along the coast.
    
    Don't forget, you owe us a trip report when you return.  Have a
    fun holiday!

    Re .1
    
    UK MKC Cards. I went in April and mailed the appropriate people
    in the US to get my card. It arrived too late for me to use it but
    I had pre-booked my tickets with WDW and quoted MKC so got the
    discount. They didnt ask to see the card when I picked the tickets
    up. The only other real benefit it gives us in the UK is discount
    on Disney goods in the souvenir shops in WDW.
    
    Give me a call if you get the chance I can maybe give you some tips
    over the phone easier than here.
    
    Richard Bell

    RE: Orlando to Miami
    
       Option # 1: Take Rt 27 south out of Orlando, pick up Rt 98 east
    in Sebring (apx. 90 miles). Follow Rt 98 until you pick up Rt 70
    in Ocheekobee (apx. 50 miles). Follow Rt 70 until you pick up Rt
    710 (apx. 5 miles).  Rt 710 will take you straight thru to West
    Palm Beach (apx 75 miles).  At this point you have the option to
    pick either: 
              (A) I-95 south to Miami (apx. 90 miles) (This is a major
    highway, 3 lanes, speed limit varies from 55 - 65, it is busy and
    down near Ft. Lauderdale there's some road construction for 10 -
    15 miles which will slow you down a bit).
              (B) U.S. Rt 1 south to Miami. This is a 2 lane road, many
    lights and intersections and the speed limit is from 30 - 45.
              (C) Rt A1A south to Miami.  This is a single lane road
    right on the Atlantic Ocean.  The speed limit is apx. 30 MPH.
    
    
       Option A will get you there the fastest, option B will add at
    least 1 hour to your drive, but will be more scenic, and option
    C is the slowest route but if you've got the time you'd definitely
    enjoy the drive along the ocean.  Plan on adding at least 2 hours
    to your drive. If you take C you'll probably stop a few times just
    to walk on the beach for a break.
    
    If you take the Florida Turnpike you'll have to pay tolls.  But
    is probably the most direct route to Miami.
    
    The previous note is correct about seeing much on the drive.  It's
    not like a drive in the country.  You'll go for miles on a straight
    road and see nothing but flat land and a few cattle.
       
    One caution:  Watch your speed limit!!  Unless of course you want
    to contribute some of your hard earned money to the State of Florida
    to help pay their bills.  The cops just love to drive those little
    Ford Mustangs up and down these roads waiting to catch you speeding.
    If the speed limit is 55 MPH they won't bother you unless you're
    over 64 MPH.                                                 
    
    Have a great trip!!!
    
    P.S. Buy a good map, and have fun

    Thanks for everyones help. I'll definitely write a trip report on
    my return.
    People in the office are saying that i'm beginning to act like a
    child, my reply is that i'm getting in some practice!!!!
    Is this normal???????
    
    3days and counting 
    
    Regards 
    
    Chris

    The Court of Flags is a mile shy of where I used to live in Orlando.
    I can't remember the name of the road it is on, I want to say Major
    Blvd, but that road is just off of Kirkman Road which is a major road.
    The intersection of Major and Kirkman is about 1/2 a mile above
    the on ramp of I-4 West, it's 12 miles to the EPCOT Center, Disney
    Village exit.  I don't know how it is now, but in order to keep
    up with traffic, I usually ended up driving closer to 70 MPH.
    
    A little warning for you is this:  on the way back to the hotel,
    be aware that the exit you want is on the LEFT hand side of the
    highway, not the right.  And, once you come off the exit, immediately
    move to the right hand lane to make the turn onto Major Blvd.
    
    If you get a chance, between the intersection of Kirkman and Major
    Blvd  and the on ramp for I-4 is the enterance to the new Universal
    Studios Flordia complex.  When I was there in April 88, they had
    a few sound stages complete, but there was still a lot of space
    to be developed.  You might want to take a look to see how that
    project is coming along.
    
    Joel

    
>    People in the office are saying that I'm beginning to act like a
>    child, my reply is that I'm getting in some practice!!!!
>    Is this normal???????

    This is perfectly normal, well at least an expected complication
    of the disease.  When you get back you can read "True Confessions"
    in note 25.*.

    I know I'm going to get jumped on ,BUT, regarding Miami, its not
    the best place in the world to visit.  There are problems with 
    err, shall we say the shader side of life there and abouts.
    Last place on earth i'd waste my time no.
    ed
    

    Chris, the area your staying in is fairly safe.  Don't go driving
    arround Maimi and leave the beach area.  Also, when driving arround,
    DON'T stop to help any moterist that maybe in 'need'.  Route 95
    in the south area is famous for highway holdups.  varous means used
    to make a motorist stop including fake accidents.
	Florida is port of entry for a lot of drugs entering the US.
    Need I say more?
    My sister-in-law is a police officer down in that area.  Say 'hi'
    to her if you get stopped.  You got good advice when you were told
    not to speed.
    ed
    

    Not sure where to put this so I thought this the best note.
    
    My are off to Disneyland soon. We've decided that the best bet is a three 
    day passport. Question - does this passport have to used on consecutive 
    days or can we go one day, go back say a week later and then take the third
    day a couple of days after the second  ??.
   
    Thanks in advance for any advice
     
    Rich
    
    

    As I understand it, there is no longer a 3 day passport, just 4 or 5.
    They need not be used on consecutive days, or, for that matter,in the same
    year.  For price info, see 96.*.
    
    peter

    As of last week there was a three day passport, the days do not
    have to be continious.

    re:  <<< Note 30.33 by TLE::KARAM >>>
            -< no 3 day passport >-

    Note that the question in .32 was about DISNEYLAND.  Disneyland still
    offers two and three day passports.  Disney World on the other hand does
    not.

    At any rate, as you correctly pointed out, all the information is in
    96.*.

    I've quickly scanned through this notes file and can't seem to locate
    the information I'm looking for.  Forgive me if it's out there but I
    just realized this notes files existed today and I'm leaving for WDW
    on Sunday.
    
    Unfortunatly we've only set aside 5 days to try and do it all. 
    Hopefully next week won't be as crowded as this week after Easter.
    I've read all the dreaded stories about this week.  My question are,
    does anyone have suggestions as to what to do on Monday?  I understand
    that it's the worst day to try and do anything but I don't really have
    a choice.  Which would be the least crowded, Disney, Epcot or MGM?
    We're buying a 4 day pass and I'm trying to decide which day would be
    the best for each.  I'll only be in Orlando from Monday thru Friday.
    Also, is there anyplace which tells you suggestions of which rides to
    go on first as they would be the most crowded throughout the day?
    
    I know Orlando is sort of "Taboo" in this notes file but we're trying
    to figure out places to go after-hours and I didn't see a lot of 
    suggestions.  I should probably mention that "we" doesn't mean a couple
    in this instance so is there single life outside WDW??  I've been to
    Church Street Station and was suggested to go to Pleasure Island but
    where else do us "single folks" go when the sun goes down?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Robin

    Pick up a copy of "The Unofficial Guide to Disney World" by Bob
    Sehlinger, available at most bookstores in the Florida travel section. 
    It has a guide in it for what days are most crowded where, and even 
    gives a plan for a (very busy) one day tour of each park, what rides
    to go in what order, specifically designed to have you waiting in line
    the least lengths of time. It also lists what you miss by following
    the one day plan so, if you have more time, you can go back and
    take in those attractions. I plan to follow it when I go ONLY FOUR 
    WEEKS FROM TODAY!!!! I CAN HARDLY WAIT!!!
    
    Please let me know if the plan really works.
    
    Linda

    
    RE:.36
          EPCOT center may be your best bet for a Monday. EPCOT handles
     crowds pretty well and if you get there at opening you can breeze
     through the most popular future world attractions (Imagination,Body
     Wars,Universe of Energy) before the real lines build up. You can
    then spend the crowded daytime hours at the communicore buildings,
    have great lunch in and explore world showcase.
    
                               Have a great trip,
    
                                               -Rob
    

    Robin,
    
    I'm going in July and I've already planned NOT to any theme park on
    Monday because of the crowds. If you do go you may find it best to
    go early and plan on the crowds coming in by mid-day.
    
    I also suggest that EPCOT would be a good choice because of the amount
    of attractions you can go through early on.
    
    If you prefer not to do WDW on Monday you could always do Sea World
    during the day and then do Church St. Station or something else for the 
    evening. It's up to you.
    
    Too bad Universal Studios isn't open yet because that could fill up the
    day on Monday too.
    
    One more thing....don't forget your trip report when you return.
    
    Mike_who_has_74_days_to_go

    
    Hi,
    I am new to this conference and need some info.  I have read through a 
    lot of the notes, but have some specific questions that maybe you can
    help me with.
    
    My husband and I are taking our daughter (who will be *exactly* 3
    years old) to WDW in early July.  We are going to a wedding near
    Orlando and as I said to my husband, "it would be a form of child abuse
    if we didn't stop off at Disney World along the way!"
    
    Originally, we had intended to just spend a few hours at WDW.  Then I
    bought the Birnbaum book, caught the "fever," and now, we are staying
    at the Polynesian for 4 nights.
    
    My questions are these:
    
    1.  Is a 3-year old too young for 3 full days at WDW?
    
    2.  We will be arriving at WDW at 3pm on Sunday, July 8th.  We have 
        5pm reservations for the Hoop-de-doo.  Is the Hoop-de-doo worth the
        expense?  Are we hustling too much on Sunday--is 5pm cutting things
        too close?
    
    3.  Will our 3-year old appreciate the Hoop-de-doo or should we get a
        babysitter?
    
    4.  Has anyone used the daycare at the Polynesian?  The in-room
        babysitters?  Recommendations?
    
    5.  Has anyone eaten at the fancy restaurant in the Grand Floridian--
        Victoria and Albert's?  Food good?  What are the prices?
    
    6.  Any other favorite places to eat (I've skimmed thru the WDW
        restaurant note--seems people either love or hate the Empress
        (Lily).  Any "sure bets?"  We'd be looking for something quiet 
        after a full day at WDW.
    
    7.  We are booking a character breakfast at the Polynesian.  Other than 
        that, is there anything else we should "book" that is special for a
        young child?
    
    8.  We will be renting a car at the Orlando airport--driving to Deland,
        FL for a wedding, and then driving to WDW (and then have to go back
        to Orlando for the flight home).  I've looked thru the Rental Car
        note, but find it very confusing.  Without going into a lot of
        details, would it be cheaper for us to keep the car for an entire
        week (Orlando to Orlando), or just keep the car until we get to
        WDW...return it there...and then take a bus or limo. to the
        airport.  
    
    9.  Which is cheaper--the DEC rate or the discount rate at National. 
        We definetly want to rent a car from an agency that has an office
        IN the airport.  We don't want to be schlepping our suitcases and
        our toddler all over Orlando in order to get our car...
    
    Thanks in advance for your advice and opinions.  I am getting very
    psyched about WDW.  My daughter is already talking up a storm about
    "visiting Mickey's house" around her birthday.
    
    This is a totally unplanned vacation--we wouldn't be going if not for
    this wedding.  In a sense, I feel like a real adventurer--making all
    these plans at "the last minute." (or what feels like the last
    minute!).
    
    Thanks,
    Bonnie
    
    

    IF you're arriving at WDW at 3PM, you are DEFINITELY cutting it close
    to get to Hoop-de-doo for 5PM.  Check-in usually takes some time,
    particularly if there are people in front of you.  Once you get to Fort
    Wilderness, you can't drive clear to the hall where the review actually
    takes place, so you have to drive, park then take a bus.  If you've
    given up the rental car and are using DISNEY transportation (then
    you've compounded the problem!  Extra people when you are checking in,
    since you'll have all gotten off a bus from the airport! AND one more
    'bus leg' to get you to Hoop-de-doo!)
    
    My recommendations would be:  KEEP the car, at least for Sunday.  Then
    if check-in is real slow, you could drive straight to Ft. Wilderness
    without unloading the car.  Plan to leave your hotel (was it Poly or
    Contemp?  I can't remember!) no later than 4:15 if you're driving and
    4:00 if you're taking Disney transportation.  If everything works
    perfectly, there is a play area where your daughter and one of you can
    run around while you wait for the doors to open for Hoop-de-doo.
    
    I'd keep the car anyway, I like to drive to EPCOT rather than changing
    monorails at the TTC, but that's a personal preference.  Also, it gives
    you a little more flexibility on your last day, unless your flying out
    early in the morning.  
    
    Hope this helps!
    
    Maryann
    

    Bonnie,
    
    one 3-yr old may be different from another but in general I think 3 may
    be a little too young. YOu need to hear from others who have tried it.
    
    I second the last reply on Hoop-Dee-Doo. I have heard JUST ONE
    disappointed Hoop-Dee-Doo report. That came from a friend who did
    exactly what you're saying. They had to rush from the airport to their
    room and then rushed to find Pioneer Hall. They didn't get to enjoy the
    show or the meal because of all the rushing they had to do. They
    mentioned that they would have liked the show much more had they not
    have had to rush around as soon as they got there.
    
    My $.02
    
    Mike

    Bonnie,
    
    Here's my $.02... 
    
    We went to WDW last June.  My nephew, who had just turned 3 in
    May was with us (his parents were TOO).  Because we stayed on
    site, at the Polynesian, my brother and his wife would take
    him back to their room in the afternoon for a nap.  We were
    there for 5 days, and he was FINE.  But I agree with the
    previous note, 3 years olds may be different from one another.
    
    As for attending the Hoop-de-Doo... we did this AND the Luau..
    We are going back next summer and will definitely do the
    Hoop-de-doo again, but not the Luau.  My nephew loved both,
    but I think he enjoyed the Hoop-de-doo more, probably because
    of all the action AND the laughter... he would laugh along
    too, but I doubt he knew what he was laughing at!!  :-)
    
    The character breakfast at the Polynesian was excellent, we
    liked it as much as the kids!  We also did the character
    breakfast at the Empress Lily, which was very nice AND Mickey
    Mouse was at this one.
    
    One of the only things that my nephew did not like was the
    section in the Great Movie Ride that has the Wizard of Oz-
    he is afraid of the wicked witch of the West!
    
    He especially loved the Main Street Electrical Parade.
    
    I hope you all enjoy Disney World!  I never thought that at my
    age I could get so hooked on something like I got hooked on
    WDW!!
    
    Carla
    

    I have to differ on the time to get to FW.  Why is using Disney
    Transportation a compounding of the problem from the Polynesian?
    Why the additional fifteen minutes?
    
    I went from the Polynesian to the Hoop-de-doo in about fifteen minutes
    and then tried to amuse myself for the twenty minutes of sitting around
    until they admitted us.  From the Poly its a short walk to the
    Transportation and Ticket Center where three Blue-Flag buses run to
    Fort Wilderness.  The max wait for a blue flag bus would be about 15
    minutes (worst case) and the travel time is 5-10 minutes.
    
    To drive you'd have to drive to the Fort Wilderness main parking, park
    and walk to FW Bus Depot, and take a brown flag bus to Pioneer Hall.
    TTC blue flag buses drop you off at the same place the brown flag buses
    do.
    
    FWIW, my $.02, etc,
    
    George
    

    Thanks for this information about getting to Fort Wilderness. I just
    changed my reservation from CBR to Contemporary and didn't know how
    we were going to get to the Hoop-De-Doo. This sounds very easy and
    convenient, better than losing a good parking place at the hotel.
    
    Linda 

    RE:-1
    
    Since you are staying at the Contemporary you can catch a boat right
    behind the hotel to take you directly to Fort Wilderness. From there
    it is a short walk to Pioneer Hall.
    
    Have fun!
    
    John (117 days to go)

    re .40:
    
    Only thing I feel qualified to offer advice on is the rental car, since
    I just investigated that situation myself. Amazingly, the best rate we
    found (among the major [in-terminal] companies) was Hertz. We got a
    compact (Cavalier or equivalent) car for 7 days for $119, unlimited
    miles. Avis and National were both $160+ for the same class of car,
    even with the Digital Corporate price.

    It could take 30 minutes to get a bus within Fort Wilderness!
    I wouldn't think of going to HDD on such a short time span.
    try for a different day<?
    ed
    

    re. .40 & .47
    
    The price also depends on whether you can get CDW FREE or not.
    I've done it both ways. I always ask AVIS for the cheapest weekly
    rate for the period in question (saying to them that I have no
    other discounts) I then reserve the car with the Digital contract
    ID # A126200- this allows me free CDW (CDW cost around $11/day or
    $77/week). Note: you do NOT have to use the Digital Contract Weekly
    rate to do this- but can use the cheapest rate available.  I have
    also rented from Hertz where the price was cheaper and used my
    American Express Gold (I think the Green card has this option now)
    card to avoid the CDW.

re .49

Another thing to consider about CDW-- If your own insurance covers it,
your rates will go up if you wreck the rental car.  Two, if you use a
credit card that covers the CDW, I think that they will not pay the
damages directly, but will reimburse you at a later time (any noters
with direct experience on this?) which may cause you cash flow problems
on a $15,000 car.  With Avis, its in the contract and AVIS will pay
directly (not you or Digital).  Unless there is a BIG price difference,
I usually go the AVIS route just for the piece of mind and the fact that
I can get the car at the terminal.

    Rep to <<< Note 30.50 by CLADA::BENO >>>

    re: last 2,
    
    Just a  nit, when using the DEC #'s for AVIS and NATIONAL, for personal
    car rental YOU ARE NOT GETTING CDW FREE!!!.  
    
    What's happening is that  DEC has an agreement with AVIS/NATIONAL, that
    CDW is waived, since DEC will self insure itself should you get into an
    accident while on company business.   On  personal  business if you use
    the  DEC  contract  number's  the  CDW  is   still  waived  unless  you
    specificaly request it.  Just make sure your  own auto insurance covers
    it (mine does in NH) or you have one of the Gold cards that does.
    
    Claude
    
    NOTE:  that DEC like you to use the  contracts  #'s  when  reserving  a
    AVIS/NATIONAL car for personal use, since all that usage helps DEC when
    negotiating the next one.

    re: .51

    Claude,

    I beg to disagree.  The following is from VTX TRAVEL, under Commonly
    Asked Car Rental Questions:

    
								   (page 3 of 8)
        Car Rental Questions

 Personal Use:    When renting for personal use in the United States, what 
		  rate can an employee get?
         
         	  Employees and members of their immediate families are entitled
		  to utilize the Digital corporate rate program for personal
		  for personal rentals. It is always wise to ask if there are 
		  any less expensive rates available at the time of rental.

Insurance for
Personal Rates:   If I can obtain a lower rate in the U.S.A than the Digital 
	          contracted rate, do the corporate rate CDW and insurance 
		  provisions apply?
 			   
         	  Yes, but only with Avis.  With National, you must pay the 
		  Digital contracted rates to obtain free CDW and $1 Million 
	          Liability Insurance. Other options such as PAI (Passenger 
		  Accident Insurance) are not included on personal rentals in 
		  the U.S.A.

Re .51

     Claude,
     
     Noooooooo   that is just not true.  I've done a lot of research on this
     and the CDW is FREE as part of our contract with AVIS.  We only 
     self-insure in  Europe where the cost-center would pick it up for 
     business travel and the employee is liable for damages on personel travel.
     The following are some excerts from $VTX Travel  using the sub-menu
     <3> car rentals  - under car rentals look at both the sub-menus
     <3> Personal use of DEC rates and <10> Questions most often asked.
     I'm not going to rathole this topic anymore. Please read the VTX Travel
     stuff or call Beverly Habeeb  DTN: 234-4142  @NRO  who is listed as
     in charge of that menu.

     Frank
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
								   (page 3 of 8)
                    Car Rental Questions

                    When renting for personal use in the United States, what 
		    rate can an employee get?
         
         	  Employees and members of their immediate families are entitled
		  to utilize the Digital corporate rate program for personal
		  for personal rentals. It is always wise to ask if there are 
		  any less expensive rates available at the time of rental.

                  If I can obtain a lower rate in the U.S.A than the Digital 
	          contracted rate, do the corporate rate CDW and insurance 
		  provisions apply?
 			   
         	  Yes, but only with Avis.  With National, you must pay the 
		  Digital contracted rates to obtain free CDW and $1 Million 
	          Liability Insurance. Other options such as PAI (Passenger 
		  Accident Insurance) are not included on personal rentals in 
		  the U.S.A.

								   (page 8 of 9)
                   INSURANCE         



                    Avis provides free CDW and $1 Million Liability Insurance
		    for personal rentals for both the Digital contracted rates
		    and other promotional rates.  The Digital Corporate 
		    ID# A126200 must be referenced in the rental agreement.

		    National provides free CDW and $1 Million Liability
		    Insurance only when Digital contracted rates are used.

		    Personal Accident Insurance (medical) may be considered 
		    on personal rentals.

		    Check with personal auto insurance provider for further
		    consultation.         

   Again from VTX Travel
    
      You MUST file an accident report or you will be liable for
      everything!
    
								   (page 4 of 8)
                        Car Rental Questions

     Other Drivers:   Who is allowed to drive the car?
         
                  An authorized driver is one (with a valid license) who has 
                  signed on the contract as such at the time of rental, OR who 
                  is a member of the renter's immediate family who permanently 
                  resides in their household, OR is a fellow employee (also 
                  with a valid license) and driving the vehicle for business 
                  purposes.  Giving the vehicle to anyone else is a violation 
                  of the contract.  These rules also apply to intl. renters.

 Who Can Rent:    At the time of the rental, who has to be present to obtain
                  all the provisions of the Digital contract?
         
                  A Digital employee must rent the car.  He/she may then give
                  the car to any authorized person; i.e., member of immediate
                  family residing at same address, another Digital employee
                  or Digital contractor.
								   (page 6 of 8)
                  Car Rental Questions
                  
 Accidents:       What happens if there is an accident?
         
		  Authorized drivers will immediately report any accident to
		  either Avis or National at the renting location and fill out
		  an accident report form supplied by Avis or National.

                  Accident reports must always be filled out when damage 
                  occurs (whether it is your fault or not; whether exempt 
                  from CDW or not, this MUST be done).  By not filling out 
                  a report, you would be violating the terms of the contract 
                  and, in turn, be responsible for ALL damage.

		  If accidents involve bodily injury, notify DEC's Risk
		  Management Group at 508-264-6360 (DTN 244-6360).  
		  A completed copy of the Avis or National Accident Report
		  must also be sent to Risk Management if injury is involved.

    Rep to <<< Note 30.54 by CLADA::BENO >>>

    Sorry  all,  obviously  they  have  changed  the  rules  since  I  last
    researched this back in '87.
    
    your truely your humble co-mod
    
    Claude

    re: .40
    
    I don't think 3 full days at WDW will be too bad for a 3-year
    old as long as you take it easy (ha, easier said than done).
    
    I just put a bunch of stuff in note 22 that you might want to
    look at regarding stroller rental and our experiences with
    taking my daughter to WDW.
    
    Nicole was 22 months old the last time we went.  We did try
    to leave the park around 1:00PM or so to let her get a nap
    but she was too stimulated most of the time to sleep well.
    
    Nicole gets very excited about It's a Small World (Dancin'
    Dollies) and the Kitchen Kabaret (beggie fruit fruits).
    After seeing these attractions she gets all glassy eyed and
    and runs around with her tongue hanging out -- and basically
    is unable to settle down for a while (this is hilarious to
    watch).  If your daughter is easily excited you may want to
    avoid these attractions just before meals and bedtime.
    
    I think the key to a successful visit is knowing your child's
    limitations.  If the child can't handle the stimulation, leave
    the park for a while.  If Nicole starts getting too wound up
    we head for a quiet place in the park and let her rest or run
    it off.  If that doesn't work we head back to the hotel.

    re .47
    
   < Only thing I feel qualified to offer advice on is the rental car, since
   <I just investigated that situation myself. Amazingly, the best rate we
   < found (among the major [in-terminal] companies) was Hertz. We got a
   < compact (Cavalier or equivalent) car for 7 days for $119, unlimited
   < miles. Avis and National were both $160+ for the same class of car,
   < even with the Digital Corporate price.


   Hum...   You have to be very carefully dealing with the way you state
   your request to the AVIS people.  Best way is to say you have no discounts
   and want the cheapest weekly rate and THEN have them input the DEC ID #
   of A126200.  For as it turns out the $160/week is the Digital Corporate
   weekly rate.  I just called today and the best weekly rate from them
   ( I just picked a week in May)  is $139 for a compact with unlimited 
   mileage and 1-day advance booking.  If you have to pay the $77 CDW on
   the Hertz rental the AVIS car is the much better deal.

    (i.e., $119 + $77 > $139 + 0)

    Just be sure to say you are giving them the A126200 number to hold the
    reservation and NOT to get the DEC corporate rate.

    re .57
    
   >Hum...   You have to be very carefully dealing with the way you state
   >your request to the AVIS people.  Best way is to say you have no discounts
   >and want the cheapest weekly rate and THEN have them input the DEC ID #
   >of A126200.  For as it turns out the $160/week is the Digital Corporate
   >weekly rate.  I just called today and the best weekly rate from them
   >( I just picked a week in May)  is $139 for a compact with unlimited 
   >mileage and 1-day advance booking.  If you have to pay the $77 CDW on
   >the Hertz rental the AVIS car is the much better deal.
    
    Funny you should post this, I was going to post a followup myself to my
    original message. I called Avis myself and asked for the lowest weekly
    rate for the week of May 14, and got a rate of $132, *even though they
    knew I had the Digital discount*. So I will definitely be going with
    Avis, even though I'm pretty sure my MasterCard covers the CDW. In case
    of an accident, I'm sure it's much less of a hassle if Digital is
    handling the details than if you have to do it yourself.

    AFTER READING DISNEY NOTES. I HAVE SEVERAL QUESTIONS?
    
    FIRST: I WOULD LIKE TO BOOK A 9 DAY VACATION.. LAST WEEK OF AUG INTO FIRST
           WEEK OF SEPT. '90, FOR 2 ADULTS  AND 3 CHILDREN.
    
           I WOULD LIKE TO STAY IN THE PARK: 
    
                      - POLYNESIAN
                      - CBR
                      - GRAND FLORIDIAN
                      - DISNEY INN
    
    QUESTIONS: 1. IS THIS PERIOD OFF SEASON OR VALUE SEASON
               2. WHAT IS THE MKC DISCOUNT..20 OR 35%  ??
               3. WHAT WOULD THE ACTUAL MODEST ROOM RATE BE
               4. IS IT TRUE NO ROOM IN THE CBR HOLDS MORE THAN 4 PEOPLE
               5. DOES ANYONE KNOW OF ANY SPECIALS DURING THIS PERIOD BEING
                  OFFERED
               6. DO YOU BOOK THE ROOMS FIRST AND THEN TRY TO GET AIR
                  FLIGHTS TO MATCH
               7. IS RENTING A CAR FOR 9 DAYS INSTEAD OF 7 MUCH MORE OF
                  AN EXPENSE
    
                   *** ANY AND ALL SUGGESTIONS WILL BE APPRECIATED***
    
    
    
        CONFUSED!!!

    re: .59
    
    1. Yes, those dates would be considered off season by WDW. 
    
    3. The actual lowest room rate for CBR is $75.90 including tax. That
       is a room with a parking lot view. 
    
    4. Yes, no room in the CBR holds more than 4 people. The only 
       difference in rooms is the view. I stayed there in December
       and would consider it crowded with 4. There isn't even 
       enough space for a crib. The rooms are somewhat smaller than
       others in the park, part of the reason for the lower price.
    
    6. My travel agent taught me to book the flights first. It's harder
       to get a flight for when you want to go and how much you want to 
       pay than it is to get a room. I have changed my room reservation 
       one way or another 4 times with the same flight reservations. 
    
    I'll let the people who know more about MKC and car rentals answer your
    other questions.
    
    
    Linda (21 days and counting)
    

    Rep to <<< Note 30.59 by PARITY::DASCOLI >>>

    First off please learn to unlock the caps lock  key  on  your term, all
    caps  is  considered SHOUTING in notes and is hard on  the  eyes  (mine
    especially after spending a day on the tube editing ;^()

>    FIRST: I WOULD LIKE TO BOOK A 9 DAY VACATION.. LAST WEEK OF AUG INTO FIRST
>           WEEK OF SEPT. '90, FOR 2 ADULTS  AND 3 CHILDREN.
>    QUESTIONS: 1. IS THIS PERIOD OFF SEASON OR VALUE SEASON
>               2. WHAT IS THE MKC DISCOUNT..20 OR 35%  ??
>               3. WHAT WOULD THE ACTUAL MODEST ROOM RATE BE
    
    Please see topic 96, I've, len and others have entered this  info there
    on prices and seasons etc.
    
>               4. IS IT TRUE NO ROOM IN THE CBR HOLDS MORE THAN 4 PEOPLE

    Yes 4 adults and 1 child under 3 if I remember right
    
>               5. DOES ANYONE KNOW OF ANY SPECIALS DURING THIS PERIOD BEING
>                  OFFERED

    Nope, but other may though.
    
>               6. DO YOU BOOK THE ROOMS FIRST AND THEN TRY TO GET AIR
>                  FLIGHTS TO MATCH

    That's the right aproach, in  fact  I documented somewhere in here that
    if  you book a room through CRO, and get the dates you  want,  you  can
    request  that the airline/car rental branch of CRO contact you and have
    them do  the  airfare, afterall if they want your money, they better be
    able to get you a flight.
    
>               7. IS RENTING A CAR FOR 9 DAYS INSTEAD OF 7 MUCH MORE OF
>                  AN EXPENSE

    Yup, 1 weekly rate (7day rental) with 2 additional 24hr rental periods,
    may actually be only 1 or 3 additional 24hr rental periods depending on
    arrival and departure.
    
    Claude
        

    

Re. .59

>              7. IS RENTING A CAR FOR 9 DAYS INSTEAD OF 7 MUCH MORE OF
>                 AN EXPENSE
 

Yes, but there are deals and there are deals.  When I went to WDW this
last January, AVIS had a special 10 day rate which was cheaper than its
7 day special rate + incremental days (i.e., if you only stayed 8 or 9 days).
So just inquire if they have any special rate periods > 7 days and plan
the duration of your vacation accordingly.

    RE 60 AND 61
    
      We are going in late August for the second straight year. I have this
    thing about giving the airlines money earlier than necessary. Over the
    last several years the airlines have had summer deals where kids fly
    free.  What we have done is to book up to 14 days at the resorts even
    though we will probably stay for 10. We have found that it is easier to 
    get a flight, especially midweek, and the 14 days gives us flexibilty
    in arranging our flights. In fact we have done the last 4 trips this
    way at various times of the year.
    
      It doesn't cost any extra up front to book more days than you need
    at the resorts (1 nights deposit) and you can wait for the best airfare
    and not give your money to the airlines any sooner than you have to.
    
    Bill
    
    (who has 105 +/- days to go)

What does 14 days buy you? Do the airlines let you pay later that normal for
a 14 day stay?

Re -.1
    
  What booking 14 days when you only plan on staying for 10 does 
is to allow you greater flexibility in booking flights and keeps 
your money in your pocket instead of the airlines.

Example: We currently have booked August 14-28 at the CBR and Fort 
Wilderness. (we can't make up our minds and our annual passports 
expire 8/28) Over the last several years the airlines have had a kids 
fly free in the summer promotion. For a 10 day stay we have the 
following flight options,14-23,15-24,16-25,17-26,18-27 or 19-28. With
6 different options we never have a problem finding a flight. This also 
allows us to leave mid-week when fares are usually lower. With this 
much leeway we can wait until the last minute (usually 7-14 days before 
because of advance purchase requirements) instaed of booking several 
months ahead to ensure a flight the day we need one.

Worst case: you have to stay an extra day (all worst cases should be 
this bad) to get a flight. Best case you can wait for promotion at 
the end of the summer or until you see a rate the you can't refuse
and get to keep your money longer. Not only that but booking at the 
last possible moment reduces the chance that your travel plans
can change and you have to try and get a refund from airlines.


There is only one problem, it makes it tough on the vac.com because
your departure date is not fixed.

Bill (who likes to keep his money in his pocket instead of the airlines
      and has 97+/- days to go) 
                                              

Bill,

Sounds like a good idea. I think I'll do the same next time we go.

thanks,

Doug W.

================================================================================
Note 235.0        Please give us some help on our first visit!           1 reply
UTRTSC::WEYEN                                        28 lines  22-NOV-1990 05:10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


	Hi WDW fans,

	I'm a Dutchman planning a first stay in Disney World in Orlando.
	I'm still in a planning stage and I wonder if some of you WDW
	experts can help me with some good sugestions and tips.

	Here are the first questions that came up when looking throu
	the Travel brochures.

		1) Whats the best value for money to stay in or
		   around WDW?

		2) If I stay in one of the resorts on the WDW grounds
		   is the enterance to WDW included?

		3) What do I have to pay for entering the WDW atractions?

		4) If I want to see WDW, Sea World, Cape Canaveral, how
		   long do I need (in Day's)?
		   Remember Holland I can drive arround in a day! to give
		   you an idea where i'm used to!

	Those are the first questions that came up during our planning stage
	so please give us som Help.

	Gijs and Jose van Weijen Holland.

================================================================================
Note 235.1        Please give us some help on our first visit!            1 of 1
WOTVAX::BATTY "The Seaweed is Always Greener..."     45 lines  22-NOV-1990 09:50
                             -< Some Suggestions. >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Answer to :--
    
    1. Cannot answer until we understand what you mean by value for 
       money - absolute cheapest, cheapest close to WDW etc. Read my 
       comments at the end.
    
    2. Yes, you still need to pay to get into the parks, even if you    
    stay in a Disney Hotel. 
    
    3. See Note 96... for latest prices. 
    
    4. Sea World = 1 day
       Kennedy SC = 1 day (about 1 - 1.5 hrs drive each way)
       WDW = 5 days for the main parks, more if you include Typhoon 
       Lagoon, Pleasure Island/Disney Shopping Village, River Country 
       etc.
       Total = 7 days minimum. You should also experience Universal 
       Studios = 1 day at least, plus all the shopping malls and other 
       Orlando attractions!
    
    The first thing you need to do is organise yourself a Magic 
    Kingdom Club card (See Note 2... for an explanation and method). 
    This will give you discounts on admissions and some purchases when 
    you get there.
    Then, collect more travel brochures and compare prices against any 
    extras they offer. If it's similar to the UK, you can get packages 
    that range from flight only, through flight plus car rental, to a 
    total package of flight, car, accomodation, WDW admission media 
    and admissions to Wet'n'Wild, Sea World, Busch Gardens and more.
    In the UK, best value for money is a package of flights, 
    accomodation on International Drive and car rental. The crippling 
    part is the cost of flights, and the Tour Companies get such good 
    deals on cars and accomodation that we couldn't get near it by 
    booking separately. You then need to decide whether it is worth 
    paying more for the convenience and exitement of staying within 
    WDW (saving on the hassle of 1/2 hr drive each way, plus queueing 
    to get on and off the parking lot). 
    
    Read as much of this conference as you can, it will answer many 
    questions before you even think of them!
    
    I'm sure more answers will come in when the majority return from 
    Thanksgiving!
    
    Mike in Warrington, UK.

    My husband and I are going to WDW in March and are just starting to get
    excited for our trip.  We just  bought the official guide and the
    Fodor's guide to WDW.  Using these tools and this file we are trying to
    plan in advance what we "must" do and "would like" to do.  In doing
    this we came up with a few questions.
    
    In late March how late are each of the parks open?
    Does the Magic Kingdom have a fireworks display?  TIme? Best spot?
    Does the Main St Electric Parade run  this time of year? Time?  Best Spot?
    Time and Best spot for the fireworks in Epcot?
    Time and Best spot for the fireworks in MGM?
    Best spot to view the Electric Water Pagent?
    Is the MK Character Parade enjoyable for adults too?
    What's a good time to head over to Pleasure Island?
    
    Thanks in advance.  So far this file has been a great help.
    
    Suzanne
    

    Suzanne,
    
    As you can tell by some of Len's answers many of those
    activities/attractions are reserved for the warmer months. Basically
    the "on season" months are May thru September.
    
    However things like the Electrical Light Parade and fireworks can occur
    when the parks are open late (weekends or holidays).
    
    Also, keep in mind that it's during this time of year that many
    attractions receive special maintenance attention and thus may be closed
    down.
    
    I second Len's suggstion about looking through this conference to get
    some insights and ideas before you take off.
    
    Mike

    I answered some of my own questions by calling the Information # listed
    in another note.  It seems the week we chose is Spring Break Week!
    Since it is so busy there are extended hours.
    
    Park hours are MK 8AM to Midnight
                   MGM 8AM to 11PM
                   Epcot 8AM to 11PM
    
    Thanks for the other hints...keep them coming.
    
    Suzanne
                                                 

    
    	Also, this year, March 31st is Easter, and according to the guide
    the week before and after easter are in the Holiday period with
    extended hours.
    
    			-Annie

    Well Suzanne, I'll tell you one of my favorite spots to watch the
    Electrical Light Parade. Everyone packs Main Street USA for the parade
    and I myself had seen the parade some 12 times on Main Street until my
    last night back in July.
    
    On that night we watched the 11 P.M. parade from in front of the Hall
    of Presidents. There weren't two many people around and it offerred me
    a clean shot for taping.
    
    Fireworks viewing in The Magic Kingdom is a matter of choice. For
    picture taking and atmosphere you should get as close to the castle as
    possible. The trees, after 20+ years, are tall so try not to stand
    behind any of them. Many people go to the Tomorrowland Terrace to view
    the 'works also.
    
    Illuminations in Epcot can be seen from all points along the lagoon.
    You want to be sure you get a spot where you can see the barge. My
    favorite spot is Port of Entry. The problem is you have to sit down and
    you may just have to put up with 10,000 Brazillians too.
    
    MGM's fireworks, my personal favorite, should be viewed from right in
    front of TGMR. FInding a spot early is paramount. We are talking 45
    minutes minimum. Remember, low-level fireworks means you need to park
    yourself aboout 150-200 feet from TGMR.
    
    I haven't seen the Water Pageant since 1976 so I'll let someone else
    comment on viewing sites.
    
    Mike

    I a few specific questions if anyone else out there can help:
    
    1.  We are going to CBR for 4 days in March, my husband, myself
    	two adult daughters and my grandson, 18 mos.  I have never
    	been on a plane with a baby, so need advice.  We booked the
    	seats behind the bulkhead on the way down for more room.
    	What about the ears.  I have heard some babies have problems with	
    	takeoffs and landings.  What to do about it?  Has anyone ever
     	checked a baby stroller as luggage.  Is it a hassle?  It won't
    	be an umbrella stroller.
    
    2.  My husband and myself will take in MGM while the girls and the
    	baby will stay at CBR to get some sun and swimming in.  I have never
    	been there.  Is one village better than the other or more
    	convenient?  Should I request anything special, besides a crib?
    	
    3.  We may not be doing the MK and Epcot but would like to go to
    	the Polynesian and the Grand Floridian and the other new hotels
    	to see what is there.  Is this possible if we don't have a MK
    	pass?  How about a day pass?  Will that get us to the hotels?
    
    4.  Is there a day pass that will get us into both MK and Epcot?
    	Or is it one or the other?
    
    5.  We may want to go out in the evening.  I have been to Disney
    	Village (near the hotels).  Is this the marketplace that people
    	have written about or is that another place?.  
    
    6.  I have never been to Pleasure Island, but have read some of the
    	notes mentioning it.  Is this someplace to go in the evening and
    	is it free?  We are on a very limited budget!
    
    7.  We may go to downtown Orlando (I think near Rosie O'Grady's?).
        We were there a few years ago but can't remember the name, but
        there are a lot of restaurants, etc.  Is there anyplace else
    	to go in the evening where you can take a baby? and it is not
    	expensive?

    I a few specific questions if anyone else out there can help:

I'll try.

    1.  We are going to CBR for 4 days in March, my husband, myself
    	two adult daughters and my grandson, 18 mos.  I have never
    	been on a plane with a baby, so need advice.  We booked the
    	seats behind the bulkhead on the way down for more room.
    	What about the ears.  I have heard some babies have problems with	
    	takeoffs and landings.  What to do about it?  Has anyone ever
     	checked a baby stroller as luggage.  Is it a hassle?  It won't
    	be an umbrella stroller.

See note 22, "Small Kids at WDW".  There is also a lot of information on
traveling with kids in MRDATA::PARENTING.

    2.  My husband and myself will take in MGM while the girls and the
    	baby will stay at CBR to get some sun and swimming in.  I have never
    	been there.  Is one village better than the other or more
    	convenient?  Should I request anything special, besides a crib?

See note 12 for lots of opinions on where is the best place to stay at the
CBR.

    3.  We may not be doing the MK and Epcot but would like to go to
    	the Polynesian and the Grand Floridian and the other new hotels
    	to see what is there.  Is this possible if we don't have a MK
    	pass?  How about a day pass?  Will that get us to the hotels?

Your resort ID from the CBR will do the trick.  It is valid for all
transportation routes in WDW.

    4.  Is there a day pass that will get us into both MK and Epcot?
    	Or is it one or the other?

No.  Only multi-day passports will allow you to move between the theme
parks.  Since you are going for 4 days, why not get a 4 or 5 day passport? 
It's a much better deal than buying one day tickets.

    5.  We may want to go out in the evening.  I have been to Disney
    	Village (near the hotels).  Is this the marketplace that people
    	have written about or is that another place?.  
    
Yes.  It's real name is the Disney Village Marketplace.

    6.  I have never been to pleasure island, but have read some of the
    	notes mentioning it.  Is this someplace to go in the evening and
    	is it free?  We are on a very limited budget!
    
It is a great place for grown-ups to go in the evening.  It costs about $10
per person for admission.

    7.  We may go to downtown Orlando (I think near Rosie O'Grady's?).
        We were there a few years ago but can't remember the name, but
        there are a lot of restaurants, etc.  Is there anyplace else
    	to go in the evening where you can take a baby? and it is not
    	expensive?

Again see note 22.

    
    About Pleasure Island and expense.  When I walked over around 5:00pm
    "it" wasn't open.  It = night clubs.  The stores were open and you
    could walk around and shop.  
    One of these shops only sold items that were black, white, or 
    black and white, lots of neat stuff; another store had jewelry
    another had Disney items, another was a candy store.  But, you could
    look around the "island", tho you couldn't get inside any of the
    clubs.
    
    Point is, if you can't afford to go one night, you can at least
    wander around, listen to the music *it's LOUD*.  (They didn't kick me
    out either, when it officially opened, 6:30pm?.  I didn't have the
    stamp so I couldn't get into the clubs, till I went and got the stamp.)
    
    +- Sharon

    Re a few back. I took my children on a DC10 from London-Gatwick
    to LA back in '88. My daughter was then 14 months. My son also first
    flew when he was 14 months. They both experienced distress on the
    decent, but were fine on the trip itself. Some airlines give sweets
    to elder children, but a comforter or juice would probably be best
    for the younger child. We took a double buggy stroller to LA with
    us on the plane, no problem, it just goes in the hold with the rest
    of the baggage. Have a good trip.
    
    Richard 

Hi!

Actually, this will be our second trip down there...but since these really
sound more like first timer questions (and I didn't know where else to put
them) I thought I'd put it in here.

My husband and I are planning a trip down in October (2nd or 3rd week).  Here 
are my questions:

1) I understand from this notes file that October 1st is the 20th Anniversary
of the Magic Kingdom.  Now, October is usually a slow(er) time down there
(our reason for picking October...not as crowded, and still warm), should
we expect it to be more crowded because of the anniversary?  Should we be
worried about making reservations now (we want to stay on Disney property)?  
(We will be making them within the next couple of weeks)  Will there be events 
going on because of the anniversary?

2) We may be going down with a group of friends (we're not sure yet).  If
that is the case, we're thinking of staying at one of the Disney Villas.  Does
anyone have any comments on it (too much hastle?  Would it just be better to
get rooms in hotels?)?  I know they're off near Pleasure Island, but we can 
take buses to Epcot, Mk, etc correct?

3) If we don't go with friends, we still want to say on-site, we're thinking
of the CBR or the Poly.  (I know there are lots of notes in here on those
two place, but I just don't have the time to go through them all (there are
so many!) sorry....)  I know the CBR is less expensive (I do belong to the 
MKC by the way...), smaller rooms, etc, anything else (my husband will be 
pushing for staying right on a monorail stop...)Also, should we request 
certain rooms/sections?  I thought I read something in here about that but
I can't remember where I saw it.  

4) If we books the Villas and then change our minds (ie our friends back
out), will we be able to change our reservations (assuming there are still
rooms available at other hotels)?

Well, I think that is it.  I already have the Official and the Unofficial 
Guides to Disney, so I'm on the right track (I didn't have either of these...or
this notes file before our last trip...I know...tsk...tsk...but now I know
better!).  It is just that some of this stuff isn't covered in the books.

Thanks so much!!!!!

Patty Leone

re: <<< Note 30.79 by CSS::LEONE >>>

    1) There will undoubtedly be special goings-on in honor of the 20th
    anniversary of WDW, though nothing has been announced yet, (don't want
    the summer crowd to delay their vacations after all).  There will
    probably be a big press bash the first week of October or so, and that
    will probably generate crowds of freebee seekers.

    Disney uses these celebrations in order to attract more business.  Who
    knows how well it works?  Disneyland celebrated their 35th anniversary
    this past year, yet attendance was down. It probably depends more on
    external factors like the economy than special parties and parades and
    such.

    If you are worried about reservations, make them now and change them
    when your plans firm up.  I don't think there will be a problem booking
    for October during the next few weeks.

    2) There are several notes with comments about the Villas.  Most people
    who have stayed there seem to have liked them.  They are somewhat off
    the beaten path.  (This may be an advantage to some).  Bus service is
    available to all other points in WDW.

    3) There specific topics that cover the Poly and CBR. Do a
    DIR/KEY=WDW_RESORTS command.

    4) Yes.

    Well I can finally say it's only 199 days left.  We have reserved 8
    days at Karl's Vacation Village and I am really looking forward to
    showing WDW to my parents.  The question is, we are planning to get 4
    day all park passports.  These passports are supposed to include all
    WDW transportation between the various parks and resorts.  Does this
    then mean I can take the car to the Grand Floridian, leave the car in
    that parking lot, then use the bus, and ferry transports to the rest of
    the attractions?  I was there a few years ago and don't really remember
    anybody actually checking to see our resort ID's.  Also can I buy my
    tickets at the Hotel (ie Grand Floridian) or must I go to the TTC?
    
    BTW we will be there the last week of August and 2 years ago August it
    was pretty quiet in the parks.  
    
    Thanks for any info,
    
    JP

    re: <<< Note 30.81 by KAOA11::LAVIGNE >>>

    You should be able to use your passport for transportation, however
    they are sometimes a little funny about such things.  Occasionally I was
    asked for a resort ID to use the launches from the MK or MGM.  Be
    careful, don't get stuck somewhere because they forgot to ask on the
    way and they suddenly remember on the way back.

    Parking at the resorts USUALLY isn't a problem either.  But if it is
    real crowded, or there is a special event going on, they may ask to see
    a resort ID.

    You must have a resort ID in order to buy your passports at one of the
    hotels.  BTW, this is the only place you can get the "Resort Guest"
    price for admission.

    So, since I won't be a Resort guest I must purchase my passports at
    either the TTC or at a Disney store before I head down and hope they
    aren't cheking ID's closely.  Is that correct?
    
    Thanks again,
    JP

Re: 30.79

   I called for reservations at CBR the end of November.  They were already
   booked from Sept. 28 thru Oct. 3.  However rooms at the Port Orleans were
   still available.  I'd make reservations as soon as possible.  They can
   always be cancelled.

   I asked about special events and no one knows yet what'll be happening.
   
   mig

    
    
    Thanks!!!  I was planning on calling this weekend to make the
    reservations...I read somewhere in this notesfiles that calling on
    Sunday was a good time...
    
    I do have one more question though.  Here is what we were
    thinking....since we're not 100% sure if our friends are going to go
    (they tend to back out of things after commiting so it is hard to
    tell), what we'd like to do is book a Villa AND a room at the CBR or
    Poly (still a little undecided on that one) for the same time frame
    (say the second week in October).  This way if our friends do decide
    they are going to go (and put up the money) we've got that reservation,
    and if they don't, my husband and I can still go (I would be devestated
    after all this planning, etc, if we couldn't go).  My questions is,
    will they let us do this?  If so, how far in advance do we have to
    cancel the reservation we don't want?  What will they do with the deposit 
    when we cancel on or the other?  Will they be able to apply it to the 
    other reservation (which would be fine with us) or would they send us a 
    check?
    
    Thanks so much for the info!!!  I can't wait until October!!!!!

    The cancellation policy is two days before arrival for full refund. 
    You can ask all the other questions when you call.  From what others
    have written here, there shouldn't be much problem.  You will have to
    pay one night's deposit for each reservation.

    One special event that does occur in early-mid October is the Walt
    Disney World/Oldsmobile Golf Classic.  This probably most affects
    rooms at the Disney Inn and at the Villas, but other properties like
    the Poly and GF may fill up as well that week.  Check the dates for
    this event when you call.

The obvious thing to do is to have your friends make the reservation at the
Villa, while you book the other reservation.  That way your friends a) have
a bit more of a stake in it, so that their somewhat less likely to cancel; and
b) you won't have to deal with the problem of what will the reservations 
office think about your making two sets of reservations.  (Does WDW overbook
the way the airlines do?)

   Gary

I'm just starting to read the Birnbaum book in anticipation of a last week
in August trip -- my first -- and it's still pretty confusing to me.

I'm staying outside the park at a timeshare.

If I buy the 5-day superpass before I go, where do I get it activated? Do I
still go through the ticket lines at the TTC? Can I go to Typhoon Lagoon
before hitting the parks (I've seen some conflicting info on that)?

Transporation really has me confused. Do I drive to the park I will be
starting with each day? If I eat at one of the hotels, can I just drive
and park there? Can I drive to a hotel and use the transportation (I've seen
conflicting info on that also) into the park since the superpass has
unlimited transportation. Can I use the transportation to visit the hotels?
If so, why can't I use it to get into the park from the hotels? Help!

Thanks in advance,
Eileen

    re: .88

    There are (at least) two answers to each of your questions. The OFFICIAL
    answer, and what seems to happen in practice.

> If I buy the 5-day superpass before I go, where do I get it activated? Do I
> still go through the ticket lines at the TTC? Can I go to Typhoon Lagoon
> before hitting the parks 

    If you buy your passports before you go, there is no need to visit the
    ticket booths at the TTC.

    (OFFICIAL answer) - You must visit one of the three major theme parks
    (MK, EPCOT, MGM) first to start the seven-day clock for the other
    attractions.

    (actual practice) - You can begin to use your super-pass as soon as you
    arrive, even if you haven't visited any of the major parks.  It's not
    clear how long you can get away with this.

> Transportation really has me confused. Do I drive to the park I will be
> starting with each day? If I eat at one of the hotels, can I just drive
> and park there? Can I drive to a hotel and use the transportation (I've seen
> conflicting info on that also) into the park since the superpass has
> unlimited transportation. Can I use the transportation to visit the hotels?
> If so, why can't I use it to get into the park from the hotels? 

    (OFFICIAL answer) - No wonder you are confused.  There seems to be
    conflicting information the various brochures I have.  Some seem to say
    that a multi-day passport includes unlimited use of the transportation
    system, while others say unlimited use of the transportation system
    LINKING THE PARKS [emphasis mine].  One thing for certain, a Resort ID
    will get you anywhere.

    (actual practice) - Enforcement seems to be spotty.  To me this is
    worse than if they always enforced the rules.  One former noter in this
    conference told me that he couldn't get back from Pleasure Island one
    night because he had left his Resort ID in his room.  It had not been
    checked on the way there.  I've occasionally been asked to show a resort
    ID for various transportation.  Parking restrictions seem only to be
    enforced at the busiest times, such as holidays.  I'm wondering when
    they'll close the loophole of being able to park for free at the EPCOT
    resorts.

    Here's a question regarding transportation:
    
    Do Annual Passports get you unlimited use of the WDW Bus Routes?
    
    Mike

    Mike,

    See note 150 for full information on annual passports.  However, to
    answer your question.  Annual passports provide unlimited use of the
    WDW transportation system including buses, monorails, water craft etc.

    BTW, annual passports also give you things like free parking and advance
    restaurant reservations the same as on site guests.

    /Jim Pappas

 I`am traveling from GLASGOW (SCOTLAND) to Detroit for 1 week, then would
 like to go with the wife and 2 kids to WDW on the 10th July 1991 for 7
 days

 Here`s where you can help

 
 I would like any info on the following


 1.  Hotels or apartments ( cheap ). 

 2.  What kind of tickets should I get and where.
    
 3.  What facilities do WDW offer for blind children.

 
 p.s this is a fact finding mission ( one week is not enough ) as we plan to 
     go for 2 weeks next year.


 Tom (soon to be a WDW member)

        RE 30.92


> 1.  Hotels or apartments ( cheap ).  

        There are a lot of inexpensive hotels in the area.  Day's Inn
        are considered cheap.  Also check out note 37.*.   Note 237.15
        describes a Day's Lodge and the author is from UK so you might
        be able to ask him easily.

> 2.  What kind of tickets should I get and where.

        I would recommend the 5 day passport since it is a "Superpass"
        which allows you to try Pleasure Island, Typhoon Lagoon,
        Discovery Island and River Country.  If you do not use all 5
        days, then you can use them next time you return.

        However, you also said that you are coming for 2 weeks next
        year.  If your 2 weeks are prior to 1 year from this year's
        visit, then you will be best off with an annual passport. 
        Check out note 150.* for more details.

>    
> 3.  What facilities do WDW offer for blind children.
>

        According to the unofficial guide to WDW (info in note
        123.*), and Birnbaum's Official Guide (note 43.*) you can get
        complimentary tape cassettes and portable tape players for
        sight impaired guests.  Check at City Hall (MK) Earth Station
        (EPCOT) and Guest Services (MGM).  These describes the parks
        in terms of smells and sounds.  A $5.00 refundable deposit is
        necessary.

        I recommend that you get both of the above mentioned books.
    
    

Can anyone tell me what CRO is? Is it a tool free number for reservations?

Jack

    CRO is the Walt Disney World Central Reservation Office.
    
    The toll free number for reservations is easy to remember...
    
                           1-800-Mickey-1
                     

Thanks, I was hoping it was something like that...I'll be using it soon.

Jack

    
    I've compiled this info for for first timers planning WDW vacations.
    This info shows where the noters are staying and indicates the most
    popular sites.

                         1990              1991                  

     % On Property       63%               63%                


    Top Five Sites      1. CBR            1. FW
                        2. Poly           2. CBR
                        3. FW             3. Yacht & Beach Club
                        4. Private Home   4. Poly
                        5. GF             5. Private Home


    These figures indicate...

       - Noters like to stay on the property

       - The CBR is doing well

       - The Contemporary is not doing well

       - 1991 is FW's year

       - A lot of people stay in private homes

       - The Poly continues to hold its own

     This info is based on notes 158 and 221 and I didn't see any Swan or
     Dolphin plans.

     It will be interesting to see how the Yacht & Beach Club, PO, and DL     
     do over the next few years.

     I think we'll always see the CBR and FW sites constantly in the top
     five.                      
     
    
     Mike

Which rides have a height requirement?

How tall must you be for those rides?

(We are thinking about a trip with our son, who will then be 4 1/2)

      Carol

    Space Mountain and Thunder Mountain Railroad both have a height
    requirement of 44".  My 7-year-old is very small for his
    age and had no problem whatsoever riding either ride.  In fact,
    he thought they were great!!  (Ok, having him sitting in the seat in
    front of me at Space Mountain in total darkness made me a little
    nervous...but everything turned out just fine.)
    
    Today's my first day back after 4 days at WDW....trip report on
    the way.   

    My family and I are staying at the Disney Inn in November.  We have
    never been to WDW before.  Are there laundry faclities there?
    
    I'm trying to limit the number of suit cases we need to take.  If I
    could do a quick laundry one night, that would be great.
    
    Thanks,
    JS                             

    I believe all WDW resorts have laundry facilities.  
    You could call WDW Information at (407) 824-4321 to make sure.
    
    Kathy
    

I didn't know I could have so many questions until I started reading this note!

My husband and I and three sons (15,11, and by then 18 mos) are planning
a trip to WDW at Christmas. For cost reasons, I hadn't even considered staying
at one of the park hotels until I started reading this conference. We've been
able to locate a rental house in Kissimee for $65/night. My thougts were that
with a baby, I wanted to be able to fix some meals ourselves rather than 
subjecting him (and us) to a week of restaurant meals. The downside of that
is that if he (or I) want to leave in the middle of the day for a rest/nap
we will have to leave the Park and drive back to the house. Any ideas about 
tradeoffs here? We also plan to do Sea World, MGM Studios while we're there, so 
I'm not sure incurring the cost of staying at the Park is worth it, but I'm open 
to any suggestions.

Since we are fortunate to have built-in baby sitters, we plan to go out 
in the evening - would staying at the Park be much more of an advantage?
 
Finally, what are:
		MKC
		CBR
		resort ID

(We currently plan to buy a 5-day passport here before we go.)

Many thanks for any help for this totally confused first-timer.

Pam Buzzerd



	 

    
    I believe the tradeoff you must balance is convenience vs cost of
    room and meal preparation.  Accomodations on WDW that provide kitchen
    facilities include the Fort WIlderness trailers, most of the 1 and
    2 bedroom villas and (I forget which) one of the resorts on property
    but not owned by Disney provides only villas.  Some of the less
    expensive 1 bedroom villas provide a wet bar, small refrigerator,
    coffee, tea ...  Around Christmas, I don't think you will find many
    discounts on accomodations, so these will be MUCH higher than the
    $65/night you have arranged.  The advantages I see would be the
    convenience, approx10-15 minutes to anywhere on WDW property vs
    approx 30-45 minutes off-site to Kissimee.  
    
    If you are willing to tradeoff meal preparation, I think with an
    18month old, you could get a room in the Caribbean Beach Resort
    or the new Port Orleans resort.  You would have less space to live
    in, but you may not be there too often.  Personally, I would look
    seriously look into this option.  Advantages:  convenience to
    attractions on property, easy bus access (maybe someone else can
    say how bad the interanl transportation system is during the holidays),
    ability to make dinner reservations ahead of time, no $4/day parking
    fee.
    
    One thing I haven't mentioned, and I'm sure others may have conflicting
    thoughts on this, is I would feel a bit more at ease leaving my
    kids alone at a resort on site rather than off-site.  How do others
    fell on this?
    
    Regarding meals, you can always get a cooler and prepare some simple,
    cold meals in any room which you book.
    
    peter

	We stayed at Ft. Wilderness in DEC 1989 (sorry no trip report)
	and it worked well.  The bedroom has 2 double beds, a full bathroom, 
	applianced kitchen with dishes, microwave, coffee machine, etc.  
	Maid service to do dishes.  The living room allowed us to put the 
	kids to bed and relax watching TV and having a cool drink.  The 
	living room area also had a fold down double bed that should round out 
	your family needs.  The walk from the bus stop was long late at night 
	with little ones, but they managed.  I would highly reccommend it 
	to anyone.

	Dave

Thanks to all who have replied to my note (30.102). As a result of various in-
puts  encouraging us to stay on "the property" with our toddler, we are currently
looking into those accommodations. Unfortunately, FW is not available during 
our stay. I am continuing my search - Thanks for the good advice!

Pam Buzzerd

    We are going to WDW for the first time next month.  We will be there
    for 4 evenings.  I am following Birmbaum's guide on what to see when,
    etc.  After reading eveything over, we decided to make reservations for
    dinner at the following:
    
    The living seas (I forget the name of the resturaunt with the aquariam)
    Hoop-de-doo (already have these reservations)
    Mexico (probably) at the world places in Epcot
    50's Cafe at MGM
    
    Now, my questions is... What should I expect to pay for meals at these
    places?
    
    We are figuring on around $10 a piece (2 adults, 2 ten year olds) for
    breakfast.  We plan to have the buffet (it would be quick) at the
    Disney Inn where we are staying except for 1 character breakfast at
    the Poly.
    
    We shouldn't need reservastions for lunches, should we?  Could we get a
    lunch in the parks for $10 to $15 easy enough per person?
    
    We were planning on budgeting around $20 per person for dinner each
    night except for the Hoop-Dee-Doo.  Is that going to be enough?
    
    Thanks for all your advice.                                   

    RE:EATING IN THE PARKS............
    I was there last week and thought the prices were outrageous for common
    items. cokes were $1.85, hot dogs from a cart were $3.75, etc. So
    depending upon how much you ( /kids) munch it gets very expensive
    snacking. A coke and a chicken sandwich was $8.00 at MGM commissary. 
    As for lunch/dinner prices, they are not cheap. If you're planning on
    eating in the countries of EPCOT, be sure to make reservations first
    thing in the morning from Spaceship Earth in EPCOT.
    Money aside, I enjoy England for lunch, (and the kids love the Ice
    cream desserts that they have there. - they're enormous! (the
    desserts, not the kids.)) Also new aerial show there can see it fine
    from behind English pub. -- SIT OUTSIDE ! (Weather permitting)

    Thanks for the input.  We were planning about $56 per person per day
    for eating.  $10 for Breakfast, and $40 for Dinner and Supper, and $6
    for sodas/snacks in between.  I am still not sure if that is enough?
Actually, i was hoping it wouldn't be that much!
    
    Thanks

  I just returned from two weeks at WDW.  I tried to keep fairly detailed
  records of the expenses.  My husband and I averaged $70.00 a day for food.

  That included to cost of both the Hoop-Dee-Doo and Polynesian Revues.  We
  ate one sit-down meal a day.  Some of the meals were paid for by others
  so I don't have those figures.  I missed recording some of the snacks (Dole
  Whip).  We generally split a dessert.  Sometimes we had drinks but not
  always.  We only had appetizers once or twice.  

  I hope this helps.

  Marilyn

    The cost of Hoop-Dee-Doo will run close to $100 for the four of you.
    
    I think the breakdown will be $64 for mom and dad and $32 for the kids
    ($96 total).
    
    Len is correct regarding value in the sitdown restaurants. Prime Time
    is a "prime" example of this. A meal here could run you high or low
    depending upon the selections. Figure on $15/person to play it safe.
    
    The meal at Mexico is nothing to write home about but if you like
    atmosphere then you'll find it there. We had a table on the rail so we
    could overlook the River of Time. I think I'd do Alfredo's in Italy
    instead of Mexico.
    
    Budget for $7-10 apiece for breakfast, $10-15 apiece for lunch, and $15
    apiece for dinner. For the four of you that means your AVERAGE daily
    meal expense will run you between $128-160 per day. You will find
    yourself having $75 days and on the HDD day your expense may run you
    close to $200.
    
    Think about having 2 meal days instead of three meal days. A big
    breakfast, a small snack around mid-day, and a nice dinner can suffice
    most families.
    
    Actually I prefer Dole Whip for breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner.
    
    Mike

    I was at WDW last week. The Hood-Dee-Do was about $35 for adults after
    tax. You have a waiter too, so if you are the type to leave tips, then
    figure 15% for the tip.
    
    	Marty Sasaki

We have reservations for April to stay at the Howard Johnson, one of the
 village resorts.  Last time we were in WDW was in November 1977, before Epcot!
We were in Disneyland in 1990, and loved it!.  So we thought it was time to go
back to WDW. 
Does anybody know how is the transportation from this hotel to the parks?  
Since it is in Disney property, but it is not a Disney hotel, are we
considered Disney guests? 
 If we decide to drive our car, can we park in the Disney resorts, and 
catch the monorail, for example?

Thanks,

- Maria

    Let me take a stab at this since it was close to our predicament
    several months ago.
    1. you can take a bus from HJ to the Disney Village, the TTC and
    probably MGM.  If not from HJ straight to MGM then from HJ to the TTC
    and pick up the MGM bus there.
    
    2. You can use the Monorail as much as you want in between the TTC and
    the Hotels and EPCOT.
    
    3.Parking in any of the Hotel parking lots seems to be hit or miss, we
    did park at the Grand Floridian several times and were never asked if
    we were guests.  but you never know for sure what may happen.
    
    Just rember you have to pay parking at least once a day regardles of
    which park you are visiting and how many times you leave and reenter.
    
    Have fun,
    

    I'm trying to plan a trip for later this year, and have scanned many of
    the notes in this conference. Some questions remain however, ......
    
    
    There are either 5 or 7 of us in the party.3/5 adults and 2 kids, age 6
    and 10. 
    
    I'm feeling that a trailer in FW would be the place to go, keeping the
    cost down. This will be our first trip to WDW.
    
    How does this sound........
    
    Fly to florida (from the UK)
    
    Rent a car.
    
    Stay somewhere around Orlando for a week, seeing all the non-WDW sites,
    doing all the non-WDW things, driving where neccessary.
    
    Check in to FW (and surrender car).
    
    Spend second week doing WDW
    
    Use WDW transport to airport for return journey.
    
    Some questions:
    
    One of the adults and the two kids are all my sons. Could they share a
    segment of a trailer?
    
    What is the cost of a trailer this year? $165/day has been quoted. What
    do you get for that?
    
    Any inof/comments on the plan would be welcomed. Remember we're
    first-timers!
    
    JK
    
    p.s. I've deliberately put WDW in week 2 so's the non-WDW things won't
    be a dissappointment, like they might be if they followed WDW!
    
    p.p.s When's the best time to go in Aug/Sep/Oct for tolerable weather?
    
    Oh, and when are the mosquitos worse? I seem to be prone!
    

    Note 14.* discusses FW in detail, but the trailers sleep 6 max - 1 
    double bed and two bunks in the bedroom, 1 pull-down double in the 
    living area.
    Note 45.* discusses Temp and Rainfall
    Note 47.* discusses Attendance Figures
    Note 96.* gives latest prices.
    Note  2.* gives Magic Kingdom Club info. Follow the policy and 
    send off for your MKC card. You will also get discount cards for 
    Universal Studios and Sea World.
    
    The plan looks OK in outline, it is better to do the non-Disney 
    stuff first, because Attitude and Service go up a gear in Disney.
    
    You can probably get a package including flights, car and hotel 
    for a week at less than the cost of the individual elements. Then 
    extend the return flight for another week.
    
    There is no official WDW transport to the airport, but Note 62.* 
    discusses shuttle services. (Check hire car prices - it may not 
    cost much more and be more convenient to keep the car for another 
    week and cover your trip back to the airport)
    
    Get a copy of Steve Birnbaum's "Official Guide to WDW" and look at 
    the daily attendance figures - you might benefit by doing only 4-5 
    days non-Disney and then getting into the parks on a Saturday and 
    Sunday.
    
    Even in FW, which has it's fair share of open water, we've never 
    noticed mosquitos.
    
    I've given you plenty of homework, but you won't value things 
    unless you've had to work for them! 8-)
    
    International Moderator Mike.

    Help.  
    
    My husband and I are planning a May(ish) vacation to Florida (we are
    driving), and would like to stop at Disney for only a few days before
    we head to visit friends in Miami.  Say, perhaps 2 or 3 days.  We 
    don't want to spend a fortune because...well, because we can't!  I have
    been trying to read through this file for a few days to get aquainted
    with all the parks etc. that are available at Disney, but I'm a little
    lost.  OK, a lot lost.  
    
    Is there a note somewhere briefly outlining the differences between
    Magic Kingdom, Epcott, DisneyWorld, Universal, etc.?  We have been to
    DisneyLand in CA, but never to DisneyWorld in Florida.  We want to make
    the most of our short stay and try and determine where to best spend
    our time.  
    
    Any advise you can give would be great, or a pointer to a different
    note...  By the way, we do not have children, and are not really
    interested in childrens' attractions (like "It's a Small World After 
    All" type thing.  
    
    Thanks in advance!
    
    lisa

    Yikes...the more I read, the more confused I'm becoming!  Another topic
    I could use your advice on...
    
    Looks like the hotels that are affiliated with Disney are quite a few
    bucks...also, some of them (all?) apparently include transportation to 
    the park(s).  
    
    We really can't afford to spend big bucks on a hotel, especially since
    we figure we'll be gone all day long, and will basically just need a 
    place to crash.  Aren't most folks exhausted after walking around all
    day?  However, we don't want to be too far away, or have to spend too
    much time trying to get to and return from the parks.  Is it better to
    get a cheapo hotel outside the park area and drive in, or is it better
    to bite the bullet and look for reasonable accomodations within the 
    park limits?  
    
    Any other advise you can give to a couple of beginners would really
    be great.
    
    Thanks again,
    
    lisa

    My husband and I have gone to Disney World the last couple of years. 
    Although I'm not an expert, I'll give you my 2 cents worth.
    
    I'd recommend staying in the park. It makes your life a lot easier,
    especially since your time at Disney is limited. There are some
    affordable hotels in the park. The Caribbean Beach Resort and Port
    Orleans are two. The prices start at around $85/night. 
    
    Use of Disney's transportation system is included if you stay in the park.
    
    Since you want to avoid attractions meant more for kids, I'd suggest
    MGM and EPCOT at Disney. You should be able to see most of MGM if it 
    isn't very crowded, but you won't be able to see all of EPCOT. My
    advice would be to buy a Birnbaum's book. It's great. It lists all of
    the attractions in the various parks and gives other helpful tips.
     
    As far as Universal, I wasn't that impressed when we went (8/91). I 
    found Universal to be very unorganized. On the other hand, I've talked 
    to people who loved Universal.
    
    Hope this helped.
    
    Deb 
    

Lisa,

I have done a visit or two on a strict budget.  I will try to consolidate
my budget and short time hints and experiences here.

Hotel
-----
The cheapest on-property hotels are $85 per night plus 11% tax. There are a LOT
of hotels in the "maingate" area of US192, east and west of the main gate, as
well as a few hotels in Lake Buena Vista, that are priced in the $50-$70 range
per night.  Examples:  Ramadas, Holiday Inns, Days Inns, Radissons, etc.  The
Lakeside Sheraton often has good deals. There are also a few very budget priced
places with virtually no frills.  The Horizon Inn is one, at about $35 per
night, and it even has a pool. 

Food
----
Plan a food buget and stick to it.  Have a buffet breakfast before going
into the parks, eat lunch in the parks, and eat dinner at fast food outside
the parks, even if it's late.  Your lunches will likely cost more than your
dinners.  You could budget $50 a day for two people, including a few soft
drinks through the day, and get away with it if you watch what you spend.
If you decide to splurge for a meal, try a lunch at one of the EPCOT countries
or one of the Disney Hotel Restaurants.

Parks
-----
Unfortunately, they no longer offer the 3 day all parks passport.  You will
need to splurge on a 4-day and come back someday to use any remaining days,
or, spend about $30 each per day for a single park pass.  For the convenience,
try to go for the 4-day so you can move freely between parks.  Hint:  arrive
early for best parking.  The inner areas of EPCOT and the Magic Kingdom open
one-half hour earlier than the stated park opening time!   Also, EPCOT stays 
open the latest while the Magic Kingdom closes earliest.  I often start
my day at the Magic Kingdom and end it at EPCOT.


Transportation
--------------
With any valid admission ticket you can ride the monorail and most buses,
and avoid the hassle of moving your car or finding your way around.  Arrive
at EPCOT early, and park.  Take the monorail to the Ticket Center, and the
the other monorail to the Magic Kingdom.  Spend the morning and early 
afternoon there, then go back to EPCOT.  When the park closes, you are only
steps away from your car rather than a crowded bus or monorail ride.

Always get all three park guides on the first day, study them, and plan
your way.  When you enter each park, get the weekly entertainment guide
for that park at guest relations or some vendors to see if there are special
events and entertainment you might want to plan around.  See the big shows
and parades at least once.

If you spend long days in the parks, start early, and plan an hour's rest break
in one of the air-conditioned locations over a large soda.  In the Magic
Kingdom use Tomorrowland Terrace, in EPCOT use Sunrise Terrace.  Wear a hat
if it's hot and sunny, it will give you a lot more stamina.

Magic Kingdom
-------------
At the Magic Kingdom:  Much is kid-oriented, but adult-enjoyable.  Don't miss
the Jungle Cruise, Pirates of the Caribbean, Big Thunder Mountain Railroad,
Haunted Mansion, Country Bear Jamboree, Haunted Mansion, Space Mountain,
Carousel of Progress, and WEDway people mover. (These are some of the most
universal appeal, in my very humble opinion.) Those can be visited in
a counterclockwise circle around the park (go to the left as you near the
castle after walking down Main Street.)  Take time to stroll slowly and take
in the atmosphere, and explore Main Street USA.  If crowds are not too bad,
this is about one day's activity.

EPCOT
-----
As will all parks, go to the back of the park early in the day and do the
front later.  Go straight to World Showcase and tour in a counterclockwise
direction.  See everything.  Take your time.  If crowds are low, you can
see nearly all the world showcase and futureworld attractions in one day,
if you don't linger to shop or explore some exhibits in detail.  If you
do linger, it will take about two days to see everything.

MGM Studios
-----------
This park is much smaller than the other two, and often seems more crowded
because of this.  Try to see everything, but adults will enjoy the Great
Movie Ride, Backlot tour, Animation tour, star tours, and Indiana Jones
Stunt Spectacular.  Again, take some time to wander and enjoy the atmosphere.

Something Else
--------------
Pleasure Island is a blast for a childless couple, well worth the $15 or
so admission for one night.

Take some time during the day to tour some of the hotel properties.  Drive
in, park, and walk around!  Look at Caribbean Beach Resort, Port Orleans,
Dixie Landings, The Beach and Yacht Club, and the Swan and Dolphin this way.
Take the monorail and get off to visit the Contemporary, Grand Floridian,
and Polynesian resorts.  Warning:  This activity will make you start saving
for a big trip to stay on grounds.  That's what happened to us!

I feel like I'm cheating to try to cover so much in one note; but I have
done a complete Disney Vacation on a shoestring budget this way.  Beside,
you'll be back...

Bill

    Bill, this is one of several notes I've read that say that MK and
    EPCOT open earlier than advertised.  How do you get in?  When I stayed
    on property in '90, I couldn't get into the parks early.  Is ther some
    "magic word" or something?
    
    Also, Lisa, when I was there in '90, I budgeted $50 a day for one adult
    and one child (7 yrs.) and that was more than enough.  I'm planning
    $35/day/person this time (not as tight a budget this time!).
    
    
    Susan

They tend to the early openings during busier times, while during the slow
times they may not open early at all, or at least not mention it.  

When we were there, MK was actually closing a half hour later than MGM
(7:30 vs.
7).  

You can get cheaper accomodations than that.  We stayed one night at an
EconoLodge for $26 + tax (AAA discount).  Fairly convenient on 192. 
Don't know about the quality though, I think I was asleep from checkin
to checkout.

   Gary

Early openings:

On my last 3 trips to the world, Both the Magic Kingdom and EPCOT open their
front gates exactly one-half hour before the published opening time.  This
was during slow or moderate crowd periods: September, May, and February.
Typical published opening time was 9am, but the front gates opened 8:30.

In MK, you can visit all of Main Street, or have breakfast at Tony's,
the pastry shop, or the Crystal Palace.

In EPCOT, you can walk around the center of futureworld, including most
of Communicore, and also see the Spaceship Earth attraction.  Breakfast
is available in the restaurant that isn't sunrise terrace (ack, the name
escapes me.)  Spacesuited disney characters show up there.  Once pluto
plopped down next to my wife across from me.  I tried to take a picture and
he covered my wife's face with his paw.  Priceless.

Even if you have no kits go to a character breakfast.  These clowns know how
to entertain adults as well as kids!


Right now, If you stay on property using a Club or Stockholder package, you get
a voucher for a special character breakfast inside the park even earlier. 


Bill

    When staying offsite what is the best strategy for parking? Several
    notes suggest parking at Epcot and using the mono rail. 
    
    What is the price of parking and do you have in and out privilages?
    
    What we were planning is to leave WDW at supper time and come back
    later in the evening. 
    
    Richard
    

    Richard,
    
    Everyone has their own favorite way of handling parking. The biggest
    hassle in parking comes when you visit The Magic Kingdom. Most people
    choose one of the following options in beating the tram/TTC hassle:
    
     o Park at a TMK hotel and take the monorail from there. You may/may 
       not encounter a problem here as sometimes there will be a cast
       member looking for a resort ID. I never came across one.
    
     o Park at Epcot and take the monorail to TMK. I did this once to see
       how convenient it was and I wasn't impressed. I was experimenting to
       see if it was faster to to that than take a bus back to the CBR.
    
    Prices are $4.00 to park when I last checked.
    
    Mike

Yes, parking was still $4.00 in february 1992 and you do have in/out
privileges to any of the three main parking lots.

It's easy to "borrow" the hotel lots at Dolphin/Swan, and Beach Clubs. Just
drive right in and park in the outer guest lots. Walk to EPCOT from either
or hop on the tram in the center area between the Swan and Dolphin.

It's a little harder to get into the lots at Contemporary, Polynesian,
or Grand Floridian, as you have to go through the main toll barrier and
convince them you have a reservation at one of these hotels.

Bill

Another first timmer.

We, myself, myhusband and our daughter (will be 3 May 25) are heading to WDW
the week of May 17.

We are not staying at WDW.

Can you provide me with any information regarding weather, lines, what is
to scary for a 3 year old (we would rather find out BEFORE we go into the
ride).

What did your child like the best.

How about restruants in the Orlando area that have something interesting
for children.

Is is ok to mention Sea World in this notes file?

Any information would be great.

Thank you

sue

    Rep to <<< Note 30.128 by FROSTY::SKONETSKI >>>

>Can you provide me with any information regarding weather, lines, what is
>to scary for a 3 year old (we would rather find out BEFORE we go into the
>ride).
>What did your child like the best.


    Several  of  the  replies to  this  topic  will  probably  answer  your
    questions, in addition look up
    
        Topics 45 and 194 which deal with weather.
        Topic 47 which deals with historical attendance figures
        Topics 22 which deals with small children

>How about restruants in the Orlando area that have something interesting
>for children.

    See topic 39 and it's replies  which  cover some of the WDW restaurants
    and elsewhere.
    
>Any information would be great.

    If you  haven't  allready  done  so, please read topic 1.1, even though
    it's label as quidelines it has pointers to several topics of interest.
    Also look at topic  60  and  it  replies,  which  has  a listing of the
    conference based on keywords.
    
    

    Assume that I am totally ignorant about WDW(a safe assumption!!).  My
    wife and I are planning to tkae our 2 kids(daughter = 7 and son = 3) to
    WDW sometime in December or January.  In reading through this
    notesfile, I must admit I am feeling a little overwhelmed with all the
    planning and details that need attention.  We are going to be on a
    tight budget but would still like to have a good time.  We are planning
    to spend a week at WDW.  Have not yet decided whether we will drive
    (from Chicago??) or fly.  It will be our 10th anniversary!
    
    I don't even know what questions to ask but here goes:
    
    What are reasonalbly priced places to stay that are close to WDW?
    
    What all should we try and do in a week?
    
    How do we approach the trip given the age of our 2 kids.  Is it too
    early for the 3 year old to go?
    
    What is the best deal for getting admission tickets?
    
    What, how, what, how when, where etc. etc. etc.
    
    All hints, suggestions, advice will be appreciated!!!

    For one families view of what a week can be like with not one, but twin 6
    year old daughters, as well as a three year old son, see my trip report
    from last May, 237.14.  I tried to include their views and
    likes/dislikes.
    
    Cheers,
    Ken
    

    My wife is interested in finding out the prices of clothing in the
    Orlando area, e.g. t-shirts, sweatshirts, trousers etc. If they are
    cheaper than here in Ireland it could save us some money/luggage space.
    
    Thanks,
    Tom.
    

    We found trainers were very cheap as well.  I bought a pair of LA Gear
    trainers for about 30 pounds.  I found the self same pair in a shop
    back home at nearly 60 pounds!
    
    Regards,
    
    Karen

    Mike, Karen,
    
    Thanks for the prompt replies. We have decided to bring the minimum
    with us and buy some clothes out there.
    
    51 days to go.....
    
    Tom.
    

Don't forget to bring an extra suitcase or two to hold all the 
new clothes.  

An obvious point?  Well maybe, he said blushing quietly to himself 
in the corner...  (-:

					Nigel

     You will find clothes so cheap in Orlando that you will not have 
     enough room to bring them all home. The Belz Mall is definitely the 
     place to go. (you will find the Disney seconds shop there and it is 
     also the place where I bought the book "Disney Animation" for 20% of 
     the regular price)
     
     Take an extra empty suitcase by nesting one inside the other. 
     
     Robin From Warrington
     
     PS Mike.  Those clothes that you bought that you would not be seen 
     dead in; are they the same ones I've seen you wearing in the office?

     I forgot. As well as Bells on International Drive (North end) make 
     sure you look in any branch of K-Mart or WalMart. You will find them 
     everywhere. EVERYTHING is cheap in these stores compared to UK 
     prices. I am still wearing my $8 trainers I bought last summer. You 
     will find shopping in Florida almost as enjoyable as visiting the 
     parks. Make sure you have plenty of plastic with you.
     
     I wish I was going again this year but I do have EuroDisney as 
     compensation.
     
     
     
     Robin from Warrington
     
     

    Just because my ties LOOK as though they were made from floral 
    shirts and shorts, it doesn't mean that they are.
    
    (Hmmmm! Good recycling idea though! Thanks, Robin!)
    
    8-)8-) Mike 8-)8-)

    I apologize for not taking the time to sift through the conference for
    all of my questions, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of 1992 data,
    so I thought I'd just come out and ask.
    
    I'm planning a trip to WDW with a friend, timed just before Labor Day
    weekend. These are the things I'd like to know:
    
    	* of Magic Kingdom, Epcot Center, Universal Studios (and SeaWorld)
          how do they rank in interest to adults?
    
    	* what are the operating hours (pointer is fine)
    
    	* am I really missing anything if I skip "Pleasure Island" and 
          the other WDW features other than MK & EC?
    
    	* what does a pass do for me?
    
    	* is there a topic about staying somewhere outside of WDW? What's
          the trade-off? 
    
    These are my preliminary questions; I'm sure I'll have more soon.
    Thanks in advance for any advice.
    
    'ren

>>>>>>* of Magic Kingdom, Epcot Center, Universal Studios (and SeaWorld)
>>>>>>  how do they rank in interest to adults?

         It's a matter of personal choice. Many adults lean towards EPCOT
         while others prefer MGM or TMK. US hasn't quite caught on yet.

>>>>> * what are the operating hours (pointer is fine)

         See note 98.

>>>>> * am I really missing anything if I skip "Pleasure Island" and 
        the other WDW features other than MK & EC?

         WDW is there for people to visit several times. You cannot do
         everything on one trip...ubless you are H. Ross Perot and have a
         month to kill. I suggest you read the trip reports and get a feel
         for what you think you'd like and plan accordingly.

>>>>> * what does a pass do for me?

         A Super-Pass gets you admission into the 3 main theme parks plus
         Typhoon LAgoon, River Country, Pleasure Island, and Discovery
         Island for a specific number of days as specified on your
         pass...it's a good deal.

>>>>> * is there a topic about staying somewhere outside of WDW? What's
        the trade-off? 

         Check notes 37 and 119.

         Convenience, transportation, park access, free parking, and that
         special Disney touch 24 hours a day is the difference. Of course
         there is the cost of WDW on-site lodging.    

>>>>>> * These are my preliminary questions; I'm sure I'll have more soon.
         Thanks in advance for any advice.

         It is well worth the time to check out the note which pertain to
         your questions. If you have a specific question place it in the
         appropriate note for a much quicker response.

Mike

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    It would be helpful to those who might help you if we knew more about
    you and your interests. I can't tell; are you female, male, how old,
    what do you like to do, how well heeled, etc... Makes a big difference.
    
    	* of Magic Kingdom, Epcot Center, Universal Studios (and SeaWorld)
          how do they rank in interest to adults?
    
    We like everything about WDW. But Epcot is our favorite. We are
    mid-forties and like travel and dining. Epcot gives us a flavor of
    both. And the fireworks are great. I love aquariums so Living Seas in
    Epcot is big for me. If you are into things like history, science and
    space, Epcot is the place. But, we like to feel like kids sometimes and
    the MK is the best place. We love being there with our 6 year old, but
    don't know how much time we would spend there by ourselves.
    
    MGM is very nice and we love it. But in a toss up, Epcot wins. You
    should really plan to see all of them. And I second the super-pass idea
    for you. You then can see everything. Universal is great. Like MGM, and
    we would go again. But it's not something we would do every year. If
    you have the time, money and interest, it's definitely worth a day.
    But on a first trip, you could skip US and do it next trip. I think I
    would stick to just WDW if it were my first time. There is so much to
    see at WDW that you will be overwhelmed. Skip US this time. And then
    you don't need a rental car. Although, even on WDW grounds, we always
    get a car so we can hit International drive, Downtown Orlando and the
    nearby relatives.
        
    	* what are the operating hours (pointer is fine)
    
    Varies with season and actually varies weekly. You have to call WDW
    info:	General Info: 407-824-4321
    		Central Reservations: 407-934-7639
    
    	* am I really missing anything if I skip "Pleasure Island" and 
          the other WDW features other than MK & EC?
    
    	In my opinion, yes. You have never been there before.
    You have to plan a week and you will be very busy. But it's all worth
    it. My wife just loves PI and drags me there without fail. (awful noisy
    for me, but I love the Comedy Club). If you are young (under 40?, 30?)
    and like to boggie, then PI is gonna be high on your list for most
    nights. If you are middle aged and hate loud music, you might pass. I
    take ear plugs to PI now, the first time being deafening. Now, I enjoy
    it much more. 
    
    	* what does a pass do for me?
    
    	The things mentioned in -.1. Parking is $4/day so if you go in 5
    times, it saves $20. You need not quite 6 days to break even with daily
    rates. But unless you can go at least two trips in a year, the Super
    Pass is the way to go. If you had been to WDW many times, then the
    annual pass is good because you can just drop infor 2-3 hours once or
    twice a day and not feel that you are "wasting days" on your 4 day
    pass. Being your first time, you are probably going to want to do a lot
    and be there most all day (good luck!). Take sun block, hats or
    eye-shades and sunglasses. It's gonna be hot in August. 
    
    	* is there a topic about staying somewhere outside of WDW? What's
          the trade-off? 
    
    For almost 20 years we never stayed on the grounds. Now we do most of
    the time. If you have small kids it is almost a necessity. You don't
    right? then you may enjoy being near International Drive which is half
    way between Downtown and WDW. The Marriott there is nice and
    reasonable (as opposed to the World Center Marriott right near WDW;
    very nice and not reasonable at all). Int'l Drive is loaded with tons
    of tee-shirt and jean stores, restaurants and your "burger alley" type
    of stuff. We always spend a few hours there. Wet and Wild is there. If
    you plan to do Church St. Station and other things in downtown, this
    may be a good bet. But I would rather stay at WDW and have a car.
    
    If you stay on WDW grounds, you don't need a car unless you want to go
    elsewhere. So it can save you $100-$200. Take a shuttle from MCO to WDW
    and kick back. Also, you get all the nice amenities like the Mickey
    shampoo and soaps and you can't beat the quality of the WDW hotels. You
    must read the notes in here on both on and off WDW hotels. There is a
    ton of material in here on this.
    
    
    Not having been there before and if you are the type of person who is a
    "do'er" rather than a "pooler", you are gonna need a lot of days. Don't
    expect to fly in for 4 or 5 days and really do up WDW. You need a day
    for each of the MK and MGM and Universal and Sea World. Two days for
    Epcot. And that is with no pool time and down time to rest your feet
    and mind. We have been there a ton of times and always go for 8 nights
    minimum. You haven't been there and need to rely on WDW experts. I might
    suggest a stay at either Port Orleans or Dixie Landings on the WDW
    grounds. This is a $100/night type of arrangement. Both are very nice,
    close to Epcot with terrific pool areas. Go for 6 or 7 nights , 8 if
    you can manage it (trust me, it will be the fastest 8 nights you have
    ever spent...) and get
    Super Passes. Do 1 day each at MK, MGM and 2 at Epcot. Then use fifth
    day split around whatever you likes on the first 4. Use the other 2-3
    days in between to rest and pool it. If you do go longer, stick in a
    day somewhere for US. You will have a fabulous time. As to where to eat
    and how to "do"  the parks, etc. read between now and then the billions
    of notes in here. The collective knowledge is astounding.
    
    
    Regards, Jim
    
                                                  

    
    re .141,.142. 
    
    Thank you so much! I really appreciate your words of wisdom. But I
    think I should confess; having never gone to DisneyWorld, I'm not yet
    a converted Disneyphile. I'm not really expecting to fall in love, or
    to expect to want to go year after year, possibly because I'm one of
    those people who's oblivious to the dirt and craziness of your
    run-of-the-mill amusement parks, and more importantly because I'm
    cheap. Also, this is one of the first times I've ever been "on
    vacation". The idea of dropping $100/night for a hotel is absolutely
    abhorrent to me. So far, me and my friend (I'm 28, she's 35+, both
    females) are looking at a $25/night place and a $50/week car. She wants
    to fit in SeaWorld and the SciFi convention, and I'm trying to make
    time to head down to Miami to see relatives. So, Disney only gets 3
    days. I'm trying to make the best of it. I figure if we go early, pause
    mid-day for a nap and pool, then go back at night, we'll probably get a
    lot of Disney into a small span of time.
    
    Although I love to dance, I know she doesn't, so I don't think we'll do
    PI. If some of the park features are fun at night, we'll probably do
    them. Mainly, I want to see Disney because I've never done it, and I'm
    curious. I'm willing to exhaust myself soaking it all in, as opposed to
    having a "relaxing vacation".
    
    So far, I have a sense that Epcot Center will be the main thing I go
    for. But I'm also thinking that it might be good to get a book, circle
    what I think I'm interested in, and make a plan for how to fit it all
    in.  Then again, it may be that my friend is a more seasoned
    vacationer, in which case, I may ask a few more questions in the
    upcoming weeks.
    
    Again, many  many thanks for the tips so far. I've spent several hours
    reading the notes in the file. The summer operating hours aren't in
    here, but the phone number should help! I'm planning how to stay cool
    in the sun, but I'm also looking forward to the tan! Most importantly,
    the key thing I keep hearing is "plan ahead". I'll do my best.
    
    Lauren Foster

    
    Well, that helps a lot. 
    
    You should get the standard 4 day pass (no PI, etc.). Go in early.
    Given your qualifications, I would try and cram a lot into each day.
    Stay at any of the $25-35/night hotels in the area. Eat a big meal at
    Macdonald's early and get into each park by 8:30. (Meals in WDW tend to
    be expensive with a couple of exceptions). Do a snack say at 10:30, so
    you can get out by 1 or 2 and not have to lunch there (save $). The
    Epcot restaurants are great so you might want to splurge for that.
    Don't miss the Illuminations fireworks at Epcot one night. It's the
    best show (lasers, fireworks, lights galore) you will ever see. 
    
    Buy Burnbaum's guide to WDW and read it a lot before you go. It's the
    bible (well, after this conference...).
    
    Try to make it 4 days instead of 3. Then you can do all three parks
    well and use up all of your pass.
    
    Keep asking questions.
    
    J... 

    Lauren,
    
    You have no idea as to what WDW is all about until you get down there.
    I am quite anxious to hear your impressions when you return.
    
    Mike

    We also eat our breakfast in our room every morning.  We usually just
    have cold cereal, yogurt, OJ, doughnuts, etc.  If we do not have a
    refrigerator in the room, we use a styrofoam cooler w/ hotel ice to
    keep the milk/OJ.   I will usually make a trip to Goodlings
    supermarket about every 4 days to re-stock. By doing this, we can
    usually save enough time to get to the parks before the crowds (and we
    are not early risers).  Going out for breakfast takes a lot of time. 
    Plus, it costs us about $30 (on average) for my clan of five to eat
    breakfast out within WDW.  Still, the biggest reason to eat in the room
    is to save time.

    
    I should note that we too do exactly the same thing. We use a small
    cooler with ice and keep juice/milk/etc. and hit either Goodings or the
    Publix at Sand Lake Road (depending on where we stay). But my
    suggestion was oriented towards the two young ladies who might not be
    into doing that. The in-room breakfast is certainly the best method if
    you are in a hurry. 
    
    It has been our experience tht things don't really get cookin' in EPCOT
    or MGM until about 11. MK seems to get really busy about an hour
    earlier. Maybe because it's oriented more towards kids (big and little)
    who tend to get going faster than moms/dads who might like to sleep
    later (our mom certainly does). Are your experiences similar?
    
    For those new to WDW, there is definitely a best way to do it such that
    you get to see the most and best stuff and stand in the least lines.
    And it's all in this conference if you take the time to look...
    
    Regards...
    
    Jim
    

    Jim brought up that word again "time".
    
    Many first-timers worry about money and time and should consider this:
    
    Unless you are Donald Trump and are staying for about two months you
    will not be able to do everything you could do in WDW in one trip.
    
    Obviously the parks are at the top of anyone's list so plan on taking
    in all the attractions you've been hearing about.
    
    BIH (Breakfast in the hotel) is key. That saves  $$$ and time. For a
    one week stay for a family of four that amounts to about $150 and about
    6 hours. 
    
    I can have a lot of fun with that type of money and time down there.
    
    But don't go through the whole vacation without one or two mornings
    beginning with a nice breakfast.
    
    Remember, you can't do everything in one visit....so while coming home 
    on your initial trip plan your next one.
    
    Mike

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    I couldn't agree more. We have been to WDW an awful lot. And it wasn't
    until just this April that we finally got around to seeing the movie in
    the French pavilion (great movie we thought). You will be more relaxed
    and enjoy it more if you don't try to kill yourself and just know that
    you will go again. Do lots of pool time, see other non-disney things.
    Central Florida is a wealth of fun and interesting things to do. 
        
    About breakfasts while we are on the subject...
    
    When we go to Central FL (as opposed to WDW, I mean ther ARE other
    things to do there...), we generally stay at either International
    drive or right at WDW. When at ID, we often do breakfast at Perkins
    which is at Sand Lake Rd. and ID (across from the Marriott where we
    stay). This place is like an assembly line and they get yu in and out
    of there fast! And if you are into big, country breakfasts like we are,
    you can't beat it. I think we are scaring folks away from eating in
    restaurants. We just get up a few minutes earlier when we do a
    restaurant. At WDW, it is great to get to the MK Main Street by 8:30
    and breakfast at the Crystal Palace. The view sure beats the inside of
    the hotel room. Also, for those who like EPCOT, the Land Grill is our
    favorite breakfast there..
    
    We usually also do a couple of breakfasts in the parks on each trip.
    It's part of the fun. 
    
    Jim
      

    Hmmm,
    
    Just learned something. The Land Grille huh? SOunds a bit different
    than Crystal Palace or Hollywood & Vine (MGM).
    
    Mike

    We're taking our first trip to WDW this Aug with our two children, ages
    6 and 11.  We'll be there from the 20th to the 24th.
    
    The 20th we land at 11:00, so I figure we'll be ready to hit the road at
    2:00.  And on the 24th we leave at 6:00 (so figure we have till 4:00).
    
    How do I go about getting the most out of the parks with so little
    time???  We also want to go to Sea World and maybe Typhoon Lagoon.
    
    Can someone help???
    
    
    p.s.  We are purchasing 3 day passes for the 4 of us.
    
    Pam

This may seem like it's not answering your question, but...

Work on the assumption that you CAN'T see it all in three days. Don't try. All
that will happen is that you'll get tired and your kids will get aggravated.

Spend a day in the Magic Kingdom; do as much as you can, but rest when you
feel the urge.

Spend a day in EPCOT.; --ditto--

Spend a day (or at least part of a day) at the Disney/MGM studio.  If you have
the energy, time and inclination, spend the rest of that day back in either
the Magic Kingdom or EPCOT.

Give Pleasure Island a miss.

Make plans for the next trip!

			Nigel

    It would help if you could give more info, like where you are 
    staying, the gender of your kids and whether you will have a car.
    
    In addition to the previous info, I'd restate our golden rule - 
    "Get Into The Parks As Early As Possible"
    
    If you are staying on-site, take advantage of the 'Early-Bird' 
    entry and do MK an hour before the masses. Fantasyland and 
    Tomorrowland are mostly open, and you can get a lot done in 1 hr.
    
    If your kids are boys, you might need to plan more time in MGM. 
    With Turtles and Dinosaurs on the loose, Star Tours, Indiana Jones 
    and Catastrophe Canyon calling, plus the Muppetvision 4D and 
    Sorcery in the Sky, you will need at least a morning and evening 
    there.
    
    Forget Sea World and Typhoon Lagoon! You really will not have the 
    time (or energy)!
    
    Mike B.

     Forget Typoon Lagoon --- yes
    
    Forget Seaworld --- No ..... We spent a really great day there .......
    although it wasn't as good as WDW or even the Theater of the Sea at
    Eslamoralda Key.
    
    	OK forget the rest just do WDW ....... Make sure you see all the
    Parades and evening shows.  Even if the kids are getting tired and
    irritable force them to stay awake .. they will thank you for it
    afterwards.
    
    			Bob
    
    		

    re: .152
    
    Pam, 
    
    I think the best thing you can do to prepare for your trip is get one
    of the guide books and read what each park has to offer.  Doing this
    will allow you to prioritize the things you want to do/see.
    
    And I agree with Nigel.  Don't try to see *everything* because there's
    no way you can do it and if you try, you'll end up disappointed.
    
    As a veteran of two such "micro-trips", here are some of the things I
    would do:-
    
    	- Skip the parks on your travel days.  Maybe leave Sea World for
    	the last day because you can easily see most of it in a half-day.
    
    	- Maybe do Typhoon Lagoon on the day you arrive.  I don't know what
    	the crowds/lines are like in mid-afternoon, but this may be a way 
    	to squeeze it in if it's a priority.  Afterwards, I'd grab dinner 
    	at Pleasure Island and early to bed.
    
    	- Echoing Mike B.'s comment, get to the parks *early*.  You can get
    	a lot done first thing without long, long lines.
    
    	- Take a rest mid-day.  This could mean going back to your room if
    	you're on-site or just parking yourself on a bench on Tom Sawyer's
    	Island.  A sit-down lunch or dinner at one of the many full-service
        restaurants will do the trick too.  You and your kids will need to 
    	re-charge so that you can see the later events.  I've done opening-
        to-closing's too many times without a rest and have regretted it.
    
    	- Have a good time.  No matter what you do, what you miss, etc.,
    	WDW is a fun place.  Be sure in all the rushing about that you 
    	slow down enough to relax and enjoy it.
    
    - Skip

    	If it were me I'd definitely sit down with one of the guide books and 
    make a plan of what's a must see, a like to see and a nice if it could be 
    fit in.  There is so much there that without a good plan you run the
    risk of entertainment overload and you could come home and realize you 
    missed a lot of the things you really wanted to see.  Once you know what
    you want to do you can figure out when you have to be where etc. etc.
    
    	And like the man said - start planning the next one!
    
    George

    We went in April and with the 4-day pass did MK one day, Epcot the
    next day, with MGM the third day.  On the 4th day we went to MK again
    and did all the stuff we couldn't get enough of, then monorailed it
    over to Epcot.  We were WIPED by three o'clock that last day.  My kids
    weren't into parades and such so we missed all that stuff.  All they
    wanted to do was RIDE, RIDE, RIDE!  Next time we go, we will take time
    to do the adult things.  We just wanted to make sure the first trip was
    FOR KIDS DELITE only and the parents could have fun if they wanted to!
    
    It was a big success!  They had a great time (funny, now that I think
    of it they had just as much fun at Whalom Park a few weeks ago!).  I
    have a 5 year old rolelr coaster fanatic.  He was SO bummed because he
    was 1/2 inch too short for Space Mountain!  He did get multiple rides
    on Thunder Mountain, though!
    
    -sandy
    

	Well, we're finally going to WDW for the first time.
	We've been waiting for our youngest to be old enough
	to appreciate it (will be 8 years old) while making sure our 
	oldest (13) is not too embarrased to be seen with her 
	parents (you know how those teens get).

	We're flying Friday April 16 from Boston and returning
	on Sunday April 25th. We're staying at the inlaws (oh fun!)
	in Orange City.

	By these notes, I'll be buying the Birnbaum WDW Guide
	and we alreay have the DEC Magic Kingdon Club cards etc.
	We have a rental car for Dollar planned. 

	At the risk of repeating frequented subjects:

	1) How many days in WDW should we plan on?
	
	2) We don't plan on doing Epcot with an 8, 12 & 13 year old.
	   Are we on target with this decision?

	3) We'd like to see Sea World, Kennedy Space Center, Universal Studios.
	   Any other hot spots?

	4) Any other suggestions appreciated.

Dan

>	1) How many days in WDW should we plan on?

I'd plan on every day :-).  In reality the most economical way would 
be to buy a 5 day super pass using your MKC discount.  That should be 
about $166 for adults and $130, you should be able to purchase these 
at thru a Disney store now (in case prices increase...I'm not saying 
they are...but they might).  One other option would be to buy one of 
the Adult annual passes at $184.70, the advantages are that if you are 
into makine reservation at WDW restaurants and/or will be skipping 
around parking at various parks during the day it could make like a 
little bit easier and possibly cheaper (can call an 800 number in 
advance to get reservations, parking is free for annual passholders).
If you are not planning on the dining experience then this is probably 
a waste.  The disadvantages of the annual pass are that River Country, 
Typhoon Lagoon, Discovery Island and Pleasure Island are not available 
to you without additional $$$...but some people don't care about these 
places.  Anyways the 5 day passes are a must in my eyes.
	
>	2) We don't plan on doing Epcot with an 8, 12 & 13 year old.
>	   Are we on target with this decision?

Big mistake,  each of the past 2 years our family has done WDW for 6 and 9
days of WDW respectivly.  This year my kids were 6, 8 and 11.  Epcot offers
a lot for especially the 8 and 11 year old...even a year ago the youngest (5
then) had tons of fun.  This year we went to Epcot for a few hours (between
2 and 5) 5 or the 9 days that we were there....mostly  in the evening.

>	3) We'd like to see Sea World, Kennedy Space Center, Universal Studios.
>	   Any other hot spots?

Your there 9 days...if it was me I'd plan on, skipping the inlaws :-), 
5 days at Disney, one day at each of the above and one day for 'rest' 
or bad weather.

We found Sea World to be fun, Kennedy Space Center...we liked (each 
time we go down we see a rocket/space shuttle launch...just by 
chance)...we found that this HAS TO BE the first place we visit...it 
is interesting, but the kids would rather be at one of the other 
places...even though they do like KSC.  Universal, we have skipped it 
each year but do want to go.  KSC we found to be VERY inexpensive.  
Free admission and low prices (lower) prices for food and 'extended 
tours' once inside.  All these other places are a lot more $$$ I'd 
write to the local tourist bureaus (addresses phone ## in this file) 
they give some of the better discounts...also checkout my reply in the 
car rental note...this can save you tons of $$$.  (I found Dollar 
rental, at the time I was going and class car I wanted to be something 
like $80.00 more expensive)

>	4) Any other suggestions appreciated.

Have fun!

Jay

If your kids like books, stop by the store at Harcourt Brace Jovanovich (sp?),
which is near Sea World.  Great place! (They have some non-book, mostly
educational merchandise as well.)

						-- Nina

    I pretty much echo what Jay said. YOu will be OVERWHELMED by what you
    will encounter down there. First-timers (even the noters in here) have
    no idea as to the magnitude of WDW and Orlando.
    
    The best suggestion I can give you is to make a priority list of those
    attractions, shows, etc. you want to see because 9 days just ain't
    enough to see everything.
    
    Mike

    I am a newcomer to the Disney notes.  They are great!  My husband and
    I are leaving in 22 days for Disney World.  We haven't been there since
    1980 or 81 (they were building Epcot - that's how long it's been!).
    This trip is a last minute thing - but I am really excited about going
    back after reading all these notes.  This is also the first trip
    without kids!  
    
    We are leaving March 4th for 5 nights at the Yacht and Beach Club with
    a room reserved at the Yacht Club.  
    
    I have a couple questions however:
    
    Should we make reservations for our first night there at Narcoossee's?
    Do we need them?
    Is the Empress Room worth it, or is the food so-so?
    Do they have hair dryers in the rooms at the YBC?  
    How about refrigerators?  (I would hate to walk through the lobby with
    one of those little styrofoam coolers!)  
    Does anyone have any ideas about hours things are open?  How about MK?
    
    One little note:  My daughter went there for her honeymoon 2 years ago
    Dec 16-22 and she said the Portobello Yacht Club was excellent.  From
    reading these notes, everyone pretty much agrees.   
    
    Thanks for your help.   
    
    Roberta
    
     

    re: .164
    
    Hi Roberta,
    
    >>Should we make reservations for our first night there at Narcoossee's?
    >>Do we need them?
    
    I haven't eaten at Narcoosee's but I've found with some of the
    restaurants that if you don't have dinner during the "prime" hours, you
    won't have much of a problem.  During our last trip, we made dinner 
    reservations at the Steerman's Quarters on the Empress Lily for 5:30 or
    6 and we didn't really need them because it was still early and the
    restaurant was half-empty while we ate.  But when we finished, people
    were waiting to be seated.
    
    >>Is the Empress Room worth it, or is the food so-so?
    
    Again, I haven't been here but the Empress Room does have a dress code
    if that's a factor.  But let me point you at note #39 -- "Dining around
    WDW" for more advice and recommendations of places to eat and places to
    avoid while in WDW.
    
    >>Do they have hair dryers in the rooms at the YBC?  
    
    Don't know... I'm a big help aren't I??  :-)
    
    >>How about refrigerators?  (I would hate to walk through the lobby with
    >>one of those little styrofoam coolers!)  
    
    They have mini-bars in the rooms, which are stocked with sodas and
    snacks and stuff.  Anything taken from the mini-bar will be charged to
    your room and generally, the stuff ain't cheap.  
    
    >>Does anyone have any ideas about hours things are open?  How about MK?
    
    Hey, a question I can answer.  I just posted the operating hours for
    WDW (Feb.-April '93) in note #98.46 so check 'em out.  
    
    If you have any other questions that I can't answer, ask away... :-)
    
    - Skip
    

    
    
    I was thinking about going down to the local store and putting my money
    down on some 5 day super passes now, rather than wait for price
    increases next year.  Question is, will they give me credit [at the
    store] for unused portions of my tickets from last year, or will I have
    to wait until I get down there.   Between all last years tickets, I
    have 5 adult admissions left and 2 childrens admisssions.
    [next year I will not have any Disney children, only disney adults ;-(
    ]
    
    ed
    

    From experience I learned that to get credit for partial tickets you have 
    to deal with Guest Relations at the parks. It might be worth a call to
    see if they would do it by mail.
    
    Linda

    Linda beat me to it. Also Ed...make sure there aren't any expiration
    dates on your new super passes.
    
    Mike

Hi there,

I am planning a short trip to the U.S.A between the 1st and 15th of April.
I like to see New York and also thinking of visiting Florida for a week.
Of course I'll want to see the Disneyworld.

The package deal I have also includes 6 consecutive days of hotel at New York.

My questions are:
1. I do not know what will be the best time to visit the Disneyworld. I know
   that Easter falls between the dates that I'll be in the USA. I guess that if
   the schools have a holiday during Easter, Disneyworld will be too crowded.
   When do the schools have their Easter holiday?

2. Shall I stay in NY at the beginning of my trip and then go to Florida or
   should I change it the other way around?

3. How much does it cost 1 or/and 2 day visits to Disneyworld? 

4. Should I rent a car in Orlando or will it be cheaper any other way to get
   to Disneyworld? How much would it cost?


Thanks in advance,

Izak

                <<< CLOSET::W7_:[NOTES$LIBRARY]DISNEY.NOTE;1 >>>
                       -< The Disneyphile's Disney File >-
================================================================================
Note 337.0                       WDW Info req'd                       No replies
ZPOVC::HONGNGEE                                      25 lines   5-APR-1993 03:02
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi,

  Greetings from Singapore. My husband and me are going to WDW from 28th 
May 93 to 1st June 93. Altogether a 5-days-4-nights stay. Will appreciate 
some info on the following:

1) A hotel walking distance from WDW. It is important that the hotel is 
   clean. We are not too fussy about the facilities as we are going to 
   spend most of the time in WDW and not in the hotel. Just a place that we 
   can rest well.

2) I understand that DEC has some discount card for the Magic Kindom. Does 
   this apply world wide ? Or do I just need to present my employee pass ?

3) Any suggestion on what is the best way to spend the five days four 
   nights ? We would like to make good use of the limited time we have. 

4) I understand that there is a 5 day pass we can get. Is that the most cost 
   effective way ? Where can I purchase the pass ?

5) Is it too risky to walk in and book a hotel while we are there ? 
   Considering that May/June could be a peak period.

Thanks in advance,
Hong Ngee

    I'm not a First Timer but I do have a question. When you make
    reservations , they send you the paperwork and pay your deposit, you
    get back a conformation where as it states " Please remit the balance
    due 30 days before your arrival." Do you really have to send them all
    the money, or will they hold your reservation and let you pay what you
    owe them when you check in? 
    
    Any experience out there on this subject?
    
    Thanks,
    		Mike

    Mike,
    
    Plastic talks. If you plan to pay with plastic upon checking in they
    make use of your card...your room is paid for by plastic as you head 
    for your room.
    
    I don't know about doing it any other way.
    
    Mike

    My experience was a package deal. The deposit was the equivalent of 1st
    night fee and  yes, the balance was due 30 days before the arrival
    date or immediately if the date was less than 30 days. That seemed to
    be the Disney World norm, regardless of who you actually booked your
    package thru--MKC, Disney Reservation, or the travel agent using Disney
    Reservation.

    The reason I asked was because when we checked into Fort Wilderness
    last summer, We heard the Cast Member in the check-in kiosk say "That
    will be "X" dollars, for your two week stay here at Fort Wilderness."
    	Then when we pulled up the Cast Member took our conformation number
    and said in a surprised tone, " Oh! You're paid in full."
    
    If I could put off paying that large fee until the last minute, I
    figure I could earn another months interest in the bank.
    
    Mike

    The process seems to differ based on the type of reservations you make.
    This is what I've experienced:
      1. package deal like world vacation plan - had to be paid in advance
      2. regular reservations with no discount - didn't need to be paid in
         advance, plus the room charges were applied to my charge card on
         a daily basis
      3. annual passholder special - didn't need to be paid in advance but
         they applied the balance of the entire stay to my charge card at
         the time of check in.  In this case the slip said the balance had
         to be paid in advance but the CRO person I spoke with on the phone
         said that wasn't the case since it only included a room
    
    I recommend calling the CRO to find out for sure.
    
    Ruth

    RE:-.1
    
    I'll confirm #'s 1 and 3 on this list as being my experience.
    
    -Jay
    

    
    I was confused by this when I first read it! i think it appliesto
    Special Packages - the usual deal is you pay the deposit...travel,
    check in, and settle the bill AT THE END OF THE STAY. The norm is they
    take a Credit Card imprint - if you don't give them a Card, they'll ask
    for a cash deposit to cover the room and other spend.
    
    Hope this helps....John.

    
    I heard the other day that when you leave WDW they scan your hand
    so if you want to return the same day, you can do so as long as this 
    mark still there
    
    My question is.. will the mark come off when washing your hands?
    

    Is it worth another $38 bucks to try??
    
    It's an ultraviolet marking (kind of like liquid detergent)
    and I'm sure it would come off.

We asked this very question (well, my 10 year old did).

the ultraviolet ink is oil-based, and will not wash off with ordinary
soap and water or detergent and water in normal washing.  Certainly,
the marks on my wrist seemed to last a couple of days surviving a shower
and various hand-washing.

If you really want to get it off, said the cast member, use an industrial
hand cleaner or scrub hard with soap and water.

			Nigel

    I wouldn't worry about it...it usually stays on unless you really scrub
    your hand. Plus you should have your pass (multi-day, BOG, or AP) with
    you anyway.
    
    Haven't heard a problem yet.
    
    Mike

We were concerned because we went in the AM and then intended to go back to
our villa and swim and I was worried that the chlorine would bleach off the 
markings, but they assured me (and were right) that you needed to scrub it with
some industrial strength stuff to get it off within 24 hours.  We swam on 3
different days, returned and never had a problem.

bl

    I'm not really a first timer, but here's a couple of questions someone 
    may be able to answer:
    
    1. in CBR, the max people per room I believe is 4.  I will have six in
       my party.  Do I HAVE to get two rooms?  will they let me in one?
       How about Port Orleans?  I've always stayed in the campgrounds, but
       this year....
    
    
    2. can the disney store card be used to purchase tickets/pay for rooms?
    
    3. will it rain on my vacation?   ;-)

    The CBR will only allow 4 in a room "offically".  And the rooms are
    cramped with more than that anyway.  You will have to get 2 rooms. 
    This is the same reason I usually use the campgrounds.  I have 4 kids
    and invariably take along "a guest".
    

    re: .97
    
    Hey Mike,  How about updating this note and putting it into a seperate
    topic?
    
    John

    Good idea John.
    
    I'll work on it.
    
    Mike

    
    I've updated this info for first timers planning WDW vacations.
    This info shows where the noters are staying and indicates the most
    popular sites to date.

      **********************************************************
            Percentage of Disney Noters Staying On Property

                1990     1991    1992    1993    To-Date

                 63%      63%     71%     58%      66%               
      **********************************************************

               Most Popular Places to Stay 1990-1993

        1990        1991        1992    1993                To-Date

     1. CBR         FW          CBR     CBR                 CBR
     2. Poly        CBR         FW      Priv. Home          FW
     3. FW          Y&BC        Y&BC    FW                  Priv. Home
     4. Priv. Home  Poly        PO      DL/PO/GF/Y&BC/Condo Poly
     5. GF          Priv. Home  DL          (tie)

      ***********************************************************

    I noticed while compiling these figures that the CBR seems to gain
    about 20% each year.

    Did anyone notice nothing on The Swan & Dolphin? They hardly show up.

    The Poly seems to be losing popularity.

    Fort Wilderness is slipping too.

    The CBR/PO/DL trio account for just over 25% of all the noters who
    visit Orlando and about 38% of the on the property stays.

    This trio and Fort Wilderness account for over 52% of the noters who
    stay on the property.

    A lot of people are staying in private homes

        
     Mike

    My daughter and I are heading down in a couple of weeks.  I've read
    a lot of this notesfile but would never get my work done if I tried 
    to read them all so please excuse me if any of these questions have
    been asked before.
    
    There will be just the two of us.  I'm not worried about being single
    as I'll have my daughter for company, but I was wondering if there were
    lots of other single parents that go with their kids or will we feel
    a little funny with all families around.  I'm not too worried.  I
    think it will be kind of nice not having two people (adult and child)
    wanting me to go in different directions.  But, I was wondering
    what to expect.  Also, are there lots of rides/attractions that I
    might want to go on that she would not be allowed on (she's about
    42 inches tall and 40 lbs.)?
    
    We get in at 3:00 on Tuesday and fly out at 7pm the next Tuesday, so
    we have one evening, 6 days/night, and then most of the last day.
    I figured the first day we'd check in, get settled, have dinner
    somewhere and then head off to whichever park had a fireworks
    display of some sort to spend the evening.  The I figure one day
    at Epcot, 1-2 days at MGM, 3-4 days at Magic Kindom and 1 day at some
    attraction outside the park or at one of the smaller theme parks.
    Anyone got any suggestions?  One of the days at Magic Kingdom will
    probably be our last day as that's a shorter day and we plan on
    spending the most time at MK anyway.
    
    I was also planning on following peoples advice about hitting a
    park first thing in the morning and then leaving for a few
    hours in the afternoon to rest/nap/swim/shop before heading back for 
    the evening.  I was thinking that one of these afternoons would
    be a good time to check out one of the water parks.  Which one
    would be better for a 6 year old?  Also would about the other two
    smaller parks, will we be missing much if we skip them? 
    
    We also have reservations for the Hoop-de-doo (sp?) review and 
    for the Minnie character breakfast at the Poly. 
    
    I guess what I'm looking for is to see if the above seems a 
    reasonable course of action?  I sort of want to be flexible (with
    a 6 year old thats kind of a must) and get to see most of what 
    we want without wearing ourselves out or ruining the enjoyment.
    So, I dont want a real rigid schedule.  I was sort more thinking
    about looking up the chart again in my Birbaum book and seeing
    which days are least crowded at which park along with finding out
    the schedules of when/where the fireworks and parades are 
    happening and then sort of making a general plan of action of 
    which parks to hit on which days.  I wasn't planning to decide
    what rides/attractions we would hit those days but sort of wanted
    to kind of wander and see what interests us more.  Given the crowds
    in June do I need to do more planning than this?  Should I try to
    plan which attractions we will hit and in what order for each of
    these days in order to maximize what we get to do or do we have
    enough days to be more flexible and still pretty much get to see
    most things?
    
    Thanks for any input?
    
    Robyn
    

    Robyn,
    
    First, you won't feel strange going as a single.  You'll find all
    sorts of combinations at WDW and it's quite common to see one
    parent with a kid or more.  We often split up and do separate
    attractions - I'll watch a parade with the kids while Randy goes
    on Space Mountain.  The wonderful thing about going as just two
    people is they often will ask for a party of one or two to come
    to the head of the line because they've got one or two empty
    seats and a bunch of large groups that don't want to split up.
    
    I think the troublesome rides/attractions would be:
    Magic Kingdom
        Space Mountain (must be 44" tall)
        Splash Mountain (must be 44" tall)
        Thunder Mountain (if she hates roller coasters)
        Haunted Mansion (a little scary but I make Nicole go on)
        Hall of Presidents (boring for kids)
    Epcot
        Most of the world showcase is boring for kids
        Universe of Energy (boring for kids but the dinosaur part is ok)
        Body Wars (flight simulator technology - motion sickness, haven't
                   tried Nicole on this yet)
    MGM
        Walking portion of studio tour (can be boring for kids)
        Star Tours (flight simulator technology - slightly tamer than Body
                    Wars, Nicole screamed through it)
    
    There are some other attractions which may be scary or intense but I
    think these are the major ones.  Feel free to ask me for specifics.
    
    I believe it is possible to do too much planning.  It seems like
    you're doing the right things so far.
    
    I've found it helpful to make lists of the attractions we must see
    and the attractions we'd like to see but can miss if something else
    comes up.  I make the same lists for restaurants and any other
    events such as fireworks and parades.  Sometimes I combine the lists
    into informal touring plans but I never list specific times/days
    for them.  At most, I try to combine them so that we don't go from
    park to park.  I prefer to spend the entire day in one park if
    possible and wander around, doing whatever we feel like that day.
    We often let Nicole choose what to do so being flexible helps -
    imagine doing It's a Small World over and over again.
    
    Given the crowds in June (which shouldn't be too bad until the last
    week), you may want to plan a bit more to accomodate longer lines.
    For example, some attractions like Dumbo and the country bears
    get long lines very quickly.  You may want to do these first thing
    in the morning when the lines may be smaller and you're more able
    to tolerate standing in line.
    
    I recommend calling the Disney information number and asking for the
    park hours and special events info for the week you're going to be
    there.  The hours can change at any time (though they usually don't
    except to open earlier) so you may want to call each day once you
    get there.
    
    Have fun,
    Ruth

    
    
    Help...
    
    Can someone explain the difference between the 5 day Super Duper Pass
    and the Be-Our-Guest Pass.  What are the features of each, the approx.
    cost and your recommendations.
    
    My situation is this, 5 days at or around WDW, in January.  Planning to
    do WDW most of the days, maybe all of them, still undecided.
    
    Any thoughts for the novice.
    
    Thanks,
    Alan

    If you take the BOG pass for five days, the pass expires at the end of
    the fifth day. If you decide to go somewhere else for one day you lose
    the money paid for that day. If you are arriving late on your first day
    or leaving early on your last day and don't do anything in the parks, you 
    still have to pay full price for that day and receive no value. 
    
    If you buy a 5 Day Super Duper pass, any days not used at that time can
    be kept and used during a future trip. So if you go to Sea World for 
    one day you can keep the pass and use years later. If you spend a day
    at Typhoon Lagoon and don't go to the three main parks you can keep a
    day. If four people save one day it can pay for a 4 day trip for one
    person in the future. 
    
    The relative costs are discussed in the note about prices. 
    
    Look at your arrival time, departure time, and plans for the trip. 
    If you can use the pass every day, the BOG might be for you. If not, 
    you would be better off with a 5 day Super Duper pass.
    
    Linda 

Hello,

my family and i will be visiting Orlando for 2 weeks from October 9th (myself,
my wife, kids aged 4 and 5). This notes file has been very useful in planning
our trip, but now that we're only 3 weeks from our holiday i have a few specific
questions that i would appreciate answers to :

- we'll be in Orlando for around 12 days, give or take a day at each end of the
trip for settling in/getting ready to leave. We plan to get 5 day passes to WDW -
will 5 days be enough to see most of WDW ? Spending 5 days there would give us
time to get to other attractions (Sea World, Kennedy Space Centre, etc.). If 5 
days is not long enough should we consider getting Annual Passports ?

- we plan on spending 2 1/2 days at the Magic Kingdom, 1 1/2 at Epcot and a day
at MGM studios. Does this seem about right ?

- given the time of year, and the fact that Monday 11 October is a public holiday
in the usa (i think), which would be the best days to go to the various 
attractions ?

- will shops and restaurants outside WDW be open on Sunday 10 October and Monday
11 October ?

- my son will be celebrating his 6th birthday during our holiday. Any suggestions
as to where we could go for a special meal (perhaps a character breakfast ?)

- whats the weather like ? Will it be warm enough to spend time at a water park,
or perhaps to drive to the beach ?

- Florida is getting a VERY bad press in europe at the moment because of the
recent attacks on tourists. Are there any areas in Orlando and round about that 
we should avoid, to minimise the risk of trouble ?

Thanks in advance for your help,

   Ray Wright,  (Bern, Switzerland)

>- we'll be in Orlando for around 12 days, give or take a day at each end of the
>trip for settling in/getting ready to leave. We plan to get 5 day passes to WDW -
>will 5 days be enough to see most of WDW ? Spending 5 days there would give us
>time to get to other attractions (Sea World, Kennedy Space Centre, etc.). If 5 
>days is not long enough should we consider getting Annual Passports ?
    
    	The great thing about the 5-day passes is that they also get
    	you into Typhoon Lagoon, River Country, etc.  With the 5-day
    	pass you could do one of the theme parks the first day, then
    	spend 4 days at the side attractions like TL, RC, DI, etc, and
    	still have 4 days left on the pass.  In effect, a 5-day pass
    	can actually turn into a 9-day pass of sorts.  The reason is that
    	you can use the 5-day pass into the 3 theme parks on ANY five days.
    	They don't have to be successive, and they don't expire.  But
    	to use the 5-day pass for the side parks, it is only good for
    	7 days from the first day you use the pass.
    
    	Annual Passes don't get you into the side parks.  You can buy
    	AP add-ons, but they get pretty pricey.
    
>- we plan on spending 2 1/2 days at the Magic Kingdom, 1 1/2 at Epcot and a day
>at MGM studios. Does this seem about right ?
    
    	We did a full day at MGM (shortened closing time of 7PM -- probably
    	what you'll have.)  We could have used more time.  We missed
    	Indiana Jones and some other things.
    
    	We spent almost two full days at Epcot.  Didn't see it all,
    	although the kids (ages 5-11) wished we hadn't wasted ANY time at 
    	the various countries.  If you have kids, plan to whiz through
    	the countries -- half-day at the most, and maybe, MAYBE, you 
    	can be satisfied with the amount of the rest of Epcot you'll
    	get to see in your other day.  Depending on the amount of
    	"detail" you plan to extract from your full day in the "science"
    	half of Epcot, you might be satisfied with a full day.  A full
    	day in the science half was not enough for us.
    
    	We spent 2 1/2 days in Magic Kingdom.  (Adds up to more than
    	5 days, I know.  We zipped over to MK from 7-9PM after MGM
    	closed at 7.)  We didn't see everything, but pretty much did
    	what we wanted to do.  We skipped Nemo, Robinson Treehouse,
    	Tiki birds, riverboat rides, and alot of the things on Main
    	Street like the movie theater and many shops.  But we did
    	get to go several times on many rides that we liked, like
    	Thunder Mtn, Splash Mtn, Haunted Mansion, etc.
    
    	In short, I think we could have used 7 days in the theme parks,
    	not just 5.  
    
    	FYI, we stayed 7 days at Disney, and did Typhoon on one day,
    	and River Country on another.  Full days each.

>- whats the weather like ? Will it be warm enough to spend time at a water park,
>or perhaps to drive to the beach ?
    
    	Should be.  Other notes in here talk about doing the water
    	parks in December!

>- Florida is getting a VERY bad press in europe at the moment because of the
>recent attacks on tourists. Are there any areas in Orlando and round about that 
>we should avoid, to minimise the risk of trouble ?
    
    	The sad part about this is that the tourists are getting picked
    	off as they leave the AIRPORTS!  Fortunately for you, this is
    	concentrated in Miami and not Orlando.

thanks for the information

  Ray

    
    
    OK, I have a couple of questions regarding one day passes and 4 & 5
    day passes.
    
    First of all, with the one day/one park pass, can you leave the park
    and return later the same day.  My brother-in-law has two small kids, 
    ages 5 and 3, both can't make a full day and they don't plan more than 
    one day at the Kingdom and one at MGM.
    
    As for the 4 & 5 day SD passes, is it unlimited admissions for the days
    that you use.  To make sure everyone understands what I'm asking, is it
    possible to leave the park, go off property and re-enter without it
    being considered two days????
    
    Thanks,
    Alan

    Hi,
    
    If you have a one day/park pass, you can leave the park and return
    later the same day.  All you'll need to do is get your hand stamped as
    you are exiting and then show the stamp and the pass to get back in
    later.  This stamp does not wash off and you can swim etc.....
    
    With a 4/5 day super pass - you can come and go into any park at any
    time that day and it counts as one day.  Last summer we would go to one
    park in the AM, go swimming or to Typhoon Lagoon in the afternoon, and
    then go to another park in the PM. - all using 1 day on the pass.  That
    is one of the best things about those passes.
    
    Hope this helps,
    
    Kathy
    
    
    
    

    Just remember that the 1-Day Admission Pass is good for one park only.
    That means the park you enter on that day is the ONLY park you can
    re-enter.
    
    Mike

    
    Let's try another question, but if I am off base with this, please let
    me know.
    
    I read the price list brouchure and saw that the Annual Passport is
    good for unlimited admission for a 12 month period.  My question is,
    does a person picture apper on it or would it be possible to purchase 
    one and if other family members were going that they could use it too??
    
    I have one brother-in-law going in November and another going in early
    January, and my family is going in mid-January, with the total days
    being about 15 days between the three families.  So if it's possble to
    pass it on to them it would be much more economical than a 5 Day SD for
    each family.
    
    Please advise.  Also, I read one reply about specials that WDW offer
    from time to time.  Where would you find out about these.  Do you have 
    to call WDW and ask specifically for any specials being offered???
    
    Thanks,
    Alan

    The Annual Passports have a cute little oval picture of you laminated
    onto it. Look only slightly better than the usual driver's license 
    photo.
    
    People who own annual passports receive periodic mailings during the
    year outlining specials. They are usually posted in this file as soon 
    as someone hears about them. You can call the CRO and ask about upcoming 
    specials, but someone was recently told that the AP holders hear about
    them sooner than they do. 
    
    Linda 

    Oh and Alan, they do check the picture when you go through the
    turnstiles.
    
    Mike

    	Actually, they check the picture rather closely, by my experience.
    
    	If you all look similar, you might have a chance.  But be careful!
    	They also will say something like, "Enjoy your day, Joe!", and
    	if you don't respond to your name, they might suspect something
    	is amiss.
    
    	Joe

    
    Thanks for the info...based on what you folks have told me, it's not
    the route I'll be taking.  As soon as I heard that your picture is 
    laminated to the pass it eliminated that as an alternative.  None of
    us could pass for brothers, let alone twins.  (I'm much better
    looking.)
    
    I called the WDW number for specials and the operator is sending me
    a list of all that are currently being offered.  If there are any
    specials that seem worthwhile I'll post them.
    
    Again, thanks for all of the input, you've all been great. 
    Unfortunately for you, you still have about four months of questions
    to listen to from me.
    
    Thanks again,
    	Alan

another question - if we decide to get annual passports: are they only available
at the main gate ticket centre, or can we get them elsewhere ? And do we need to
take along photographs of ourselves and id ?

  Thanks again,

     Ray

    The annual passports can be purchased in advance by phone, at the
    main ticket windowss at each park, or at the Ticket and Transportation
    Center (not recommended). The picture is taken at the Guest Services
    office at any of the three parks (That's why the picture is a little
    better than a driver's license: you're on vacation!). 
    
    
    
    Linda

    Remember that when you purchase them by phone you receive special
    vouchers that you must bring with you when you go to Guest Services.
    
    The clock on your Annual Passports does not start until your picture is
    taken on that day.
    
    I strongly agree with Linda about NOT going to the TTC to do this. I 
    find the Guest Services at MGM to be the most enjoyable place to do
    this.
    
    Mike

not really a disney question, but perhaps someone who has visited Florida from
the uk can help -

i know that a full uk passport (rather than a visitors passport) is needed for
entry to the usa, but is it ok for children to be included on their parents full
passport, or do they need their own seperate passport ?

thanks,

  Ray Wright

Children do not need a separate passport. If you need more advice mail 
me at KAYR@OLO.

Robin (Warrington)

    
    
    OK, here's a first timers question for you.
    
    We're leaving for WDW on Jan 19th, but I'm trying to figure out the
    type of passes to purchase.  The primary reason for my confusion is,
    currently my kids are 9 and 8.  If I purchase the 5 day passes in
    order to gain access to PI, TL, RC, DI, and we plan only 3 days at
    Ep, MK and MGM, by the time we go again, probably 1997, we won't be
    able to use the children's passes, because of the age issue.
    
    Any suggestions...
    
    Thanks,
    Alan

    your in the same boat I was in.  I have some unused days on children's
    passes.  I plan on turning them in at guest relations at the TTC when
    I get there.  no problem.  My only regrets is the year I traded in my
    unused E ticket book ;-(
    

    Another thing is just sell them. Having one or two days left on
    a all parks pass is ideal for people who are going down but will not
    spend 4 or 5 days. Since the single day passes do not allow going from
    one place to another the left over days on a multi park pass are
    like gold. You may be able to buy some from some else. I have a couple
    of old passes left over at child/adult, but I will be using them. THere are
    probably people that have extra to sell. I've been using some left
    over passes from a trip in 89 with a bunch of relatives for our last
    two trips down.
    
    
    
    			
    

    I am not as familiar with these new passes so I am curious now.
    I would guess that the part of the passes good to EPCOT, MK, and MGM
    are fully transferrable, they always were, no signature or anything.
    Is this still true ????
    Seems to be plenty of experts out there that would know ??
    
    I would guess however that the use of the same super pass for PI, TL, RC,
    DI (whatever) that are good for one week from first use would NOT be
    transferrable to prevent multiple uses etc.
    
    I am running out of my old passes and will need some for the future
    at some point. It would be nice to know the specifics.
    
    In our original case we bought 5 day passes back in 89 just before MGM.
    They did not have the same super pass then. They had 3, 4 and 5 day
    all park passes. At the time there were 12 of us and most were only
    going to MG/EPCOT for 3 days. Since I had the Magic Kingdom
    card I bought all 12 passes as 5 day passes and then bought the
    excess two days from everyone else since I knew we would use them
    eventually. At that time the 4 day adult pass was $18 more than 3,
    and the 5th day on 5 day pass was $14 more. So for $16 for each day
    I picked up all the extra passes and they are good for anyone, 
    good for transpertation, can go into all 3 parks in same day etc.
    I passed on the MKC discount and since they were all staying at
    our place for free anyway they got a good deal.
    Considering the prices nowadays it is not a bad investment.
    Of course Disney makes out big time by offering this flexibility.
    Can you imagine the number of unused passes there are that never
    get used, probably a lot.
    
    If someone knows the exact restrictions etc. on the passes today then
    please post a reply. It would be good information for those like myself
    who are now not sure and would like to be able to plan accordingly.
    
    			harold
    
    

    Harold,
    
    You may want to read your passes to see if there were any expiration
    dates. I do recall the original 4 and 5 day passes had expiration dates
    (1 year after first stamped date).
    
    If so all this is moot.
    
    Mike

    re: 214
    
    Also, passes issued before the opening of MGM are 2-park passes and
    will not get you into MGM.  
    
    --Jay
    

    No expiration date on them that I know of, new in April 89, used again in 
    in 91 and 92 by myself and different people and different children with
    no problem at all. I
    do not have them with me right now but I do not believe that I could
    have used them again if there was a restriction. I do remember when
    I bought them at MK in 89 that I was specifically told they were
    good forever and ever !
    
    I do not care about the old ones, I am certain that the few left are
    still good. I am more interested in knowing what the current
    policy is which applies to the newer tickets ??????
    
    When we go down to the area now we only spend a day or so in WDW, many
    times we like to jump from one part to another in same day. So it
    is nice to have multi park passports. 
    
    	Since this came up and I needed a new card I went over and got my 
           MKC card.
    
    	The May 23,93 MKC price list states that the 
    	  Five Day Super Duper Pass includes any 5 day  admission
          to MK,EPCOT,MGM  "with no expiration date".
    
       Under the  MKC membership guide for 93 it states
          under the 4/5 day all park admissions to MK,EPCOT,MGM, quote
    
    	   "No expiration date. You don't have to use it on consecutive days
    	   and it is good forever."
    
    
        This still does not answer the question about the passes be used
         only by one person ??
    
      It is amazing how life is so complicated.
    
    				harold
    

    My understanding is my passes will not get me directly into MGM but
    they will trade them at the gate for one that will at no cost. I
    believe I verified that last time, but we did not have time to go
    there. Even if I could not get in they are still useful, but I am
    pretty sure they do get you in, you just have to trade them.
    
    			harold

    Re .214 & .217
    
    On the 4 Day Super PLUS cards you're supposed to sign your name when
    you get them - it states that they are NOT transferable. The rep who 
    sold them to us told us not to bother and said she'd buy back any unused 
    days at $25/day.
    
    The cards were never checked for signatures.
    
    We bought from a rep because we only wanted 4-days at the big-3, AND we
    wanted to visit TL,DI+FW. I understand that MKC doesn't apply to this
    pass. HOWEVER I told the rep about my MKC card and the discounts, and
    after 5 minutes negotiating she gave me a pro-rata discount on the
    four day super PLUS card!
    
    Did I do well or does the MKC apply to this pass and the rep was just
    trying it on??

    The MKC price guide I just got with the card refers to the
    discount on the 
    	5 day super duper pass (covers TL, DI, RC, PI)
    	4 day super pass (does NOT cover TL, DI, RC, PI)
        annual
        one day pass
    
    It does not mention the 4 day super plus like you  got so maybe you
    did good, always worth a try.
    
    I guess the important thing is if you are buying someone else's
    unused passes that you want it with no signature or one of the
    old passes with no signature line.
    
    What was the price for this 4 day card ??
    
    On the MKC price guide it is interesting the MKC club discount
    on the 5 day card + is 5%, 170 regular, 161.50 for MKC
    the 4 day card only has a 4% discount for MKC, 125 reg, 120 with
    discount. Every little bit helps.
    
    			Harold C.
    
    	

    
    OK, I'm at 13 days and counting...
    
    My question is, should I buy Birnbaum's Unofficial Guide, or since I
    have been to WDW twice, last time was three yrs ago, forget it.
    
    Does it contain helpful hints on things to see, places to go or places
    to eat at, and when is the best time.
    
    Any thoughts from any of you WDW Guru's.
    
    Thanks and don't hate me for leaving you all behind.
    
    Alan

    Alan,
    
    A three year absence may call for a refresher course. Birnbaum may be
    helpful. However, I'd put a lot more stock in what I read in this
    conference than what I read in "The Bible."
    
    Make no mistake about it, that book is the best source for factual
    information but the best hints and tips are right here.
    
    
    Mike

    there is more information in this notefile than ever in Birnbaum.
    
    a new visitor should never read that book.  Of course I'm still the
    only one to hold that view.   a person can over plan the trip.  I'd 
    rather come back and hear someone ask me if a saw or did X and didn't.
    That gives me the excuss for taking another trip sooner!
    
    I don't even know how many trips I've been down ther now.  I am sure
    that I haven't seen everything yet.  We go at our own pace, and enjoy.
    The larger the crowds, the better.  more streetmospher is added.
    If you plan on visiting 5 attractions on your list, I bet you march/run
    past a lot of attractions that are not talked about anywhere.
    
    		Go there, and let it happen.
    
    ed
    

    It must be the cold weather that has prompted many friends and
    relatives to think of warm Florida and WDW and to set off a barrage of
    questions my way on planning WDW vacations.
    
    For the first time visitors the first question I hear is "How long
    should we stay?" That's a tough question and it has been discussed
    already in several topics in this conference but it might be worth
    revisiting. 
    
    I think it would be worthwhile to discuss what goes into the decision
    process when determining "How long is long enough?"
    
    Here's my take:
    
          - First and foremost determine whether or not the trip will be
            pure Disney or Disney plus other Orlando attractions.
    
          - Allow for a minimum of 2 days per theme park...especially during
            short operating hours.
    
          - Plan your itinerary as far as attractions, shows, and
            restaurants you plan to experience.
    
          - Determine your vacation budget (you would think this would be
            at the top of the list but many people don't see this as a 
            top priority...basically because they assume many factors
            will influence the bottom line).
    
          - Tied in to the previous point is deciding where to stay.
    
    Of course I also get, "Well what do you do?"
    
    That's not a fair question because a first-timer and a WDW veteran will
    most likely plan different style vacations.
    
          - I am a proponent of Annual Passes which means unless you are
            planning several trips over a 12 month period, your only trip
            during that year will be an extended stay of about 8+ days.
    
          - I visit only during extended hours so my itinerary is very
            flexible which may not be so for a 1-week first-timer vacation.
    
    If anyone has any general recommendations on determining how many days
    to stay during an initial visit to Orlando please share them with us.
    
    It's important to explain how you arrive at your decision.
    
    Mike 
    
    

Mike I agree with all that you've said, except I can prove that in 
some situations (most actually that I've been associated with) an 
Annual Pass can pay off in less than 5 days.

>    
>          - I am a proponent of Annual Passes which means unless you are
>            planning several trips over a 12 month period, your only trip
>            during that year will be an extended stay of about 8+ days.
>

I'm assuming you are looking at this purely on an admission basis.

If two decision points are to stay on property and to go 'off season' 
(which historically is about 65% of the year).  An annual pass will 
pay off in just a few nights.  (even with add ons!)

The 50% Annual Pass discount is the payback (and to a lesser degree 
the lower %age on the lower priced resort hotels).

Now to maximize the savings, I've found that for my family (stays of 
about 7-8 *real days* and depending on fights 1 or 2 no-op 
days...usually 5-6 days at WDW parks.  I have an annual pass (to get 
the hotel discounts) and the rest of my family will get admission 
through  the deal of the day (could be a BOG pass [yes the method that 
I *hate*] depending on our flights, the weekly forcast and if we 
decide not to go to any other area attractions).

Heck, even with the 4 day 'min-WDW vacation' I just took for the 
marathon...the annual pass paid for itself.  I would have used a 4 day 
super pass (126.00) + I got 50% off ($90 * 4) the hotel so a net of 
$234.00.

(yes I will submit a trip report on this one...it was unique...just 
been very busy)

-Jay

    Jay,
    
    You're right. I was basing my thoughts regard AP's on admission alone.
    If you take into consideration the AP specials and discounts the APs
    even more influence length of stay.
    
    Mike

    Hello Disneyholics everywhere
    
    I have just discovered this conference probably due to the fact that my
    family and I (wife, two girls 9 & 10 years old and my wife's parents) 
    are planning a trip to Orlando in Oct 94, we fly out from Manchester 
    England on Sunday 16 October with Delta airlines.  (I have entered 
    more details in the 1994 Visitors topic).
    
    I have read some of the topics in the conference and I apologise in
    advance if I am asking the same old questions but then I am a first
    timer with no plans for a return visit in the forseeable future
    therefore I want to make the most of the trip.  I'll just list the
    questions I have currently and await your replies (many thanks in
    advance).
    
    I have booked my flights and accommodation (Vistana Resort, Lake Buena
    Vista) seperatly and at this stage have not booked a hire car.  My
    thinking is that the first week of my holiday will be spent in WDW
    witha couple of days rest therefore I don't need a car the first week.
    How much should I expect to pay for a minivan during the second week?
    Would it work out cheaper/easier to rely on buses/taxis?
    
    I plan to get a taxi from the airport to Vistana resort.  Is this a
    good idea? How much should I expect to pay?
    
    Does anyone have an address for WDW to which I could write in order to
    get hold of information or is there a "Tourist Information" centre in
    Orlando to which I could write?
    
    Anyone been to the Vistana Resort? Any comments? The literature I have
    says a complimentary bus service runs from the resort to WDW, can
    anyone confirm or deny this?
    
    The next point is the one that is really concerning me. Since booking
    my holiday I have spoken to a number of people who have been to WDW or
    "know someone who has"!  A recurring theme in these discussions is one
    of security. I'm not talking about pick pockets and muggers, I accept
    these sort of risks no matter where you travel. My prime concern
    relates to the safety of my children as I understand it is common
    practise among Americans to put a "lead" on young children 
    (yes, like a dog!) whilst inside WDW etc.  The reason for this is that
    parents are frightened of their children being kidnapped.  Any
    comments/reassurances you have on this subject would be gratefully
    appreciated asap. It may cold, wet and dark here in the UK but I want
    to enjoy waiting for this holiday of a lifetime and not carry worrying
    about the above.
    
    Thanks in advance for your replies I look forward to conversing more in
    the coming months.
    
    Regards
    
    Terry
    
    PS If anyone wants some info on flight prices from the UK give me a
    call on 851 1920
    

    Terry, I also believe you can relax about the safety of your
    children.  Yes, there are people who are concerned about their
    children getting kidnapped and I think it's a valid concern
    however, I believe the actual risk is very low.  I've seen the
    statistics that show a large number of missing children in
    America but when they break the statistics down into smaller
    categories (run aways, abductions by relatives, abductions by
    strangers, etc.), the actual number of abductions by strangers
    is quite low.  I have never been worried about kidnapping at
    WDW but have used a "lead" or what I call a handholder at times
    to keep my small children from running off in random directions.
    
    If I remember your entry from the sign-in note correctly, your
    children are about 10 years old.  You should have no problem
    with them at WDW.  Len Goldberg who used to be a moderator of
    this conference gave me some good advice about how he prepared
    his children for getting lost which might be appropriate for
    your children too.  He had each of his children carry their resort
    id, I assume it was stamped for transportation only.  If they got
    lost they were to find a Disney cast member (look for the Disney
    name tag) and tell them their name and that they were lost.  The
    children could also show the cast member their id.
    
    According to Len, the Disney cast members handle lost children
    situations very well.  If a cast member finds a lost child, they
    walk around the general area with the child for a few minutes
    figuring the rest of the family will be looking in that area too.
    At some point the children are brought to wherever they take lost
    children - sorry I can't remember where, it might be the first aid
    station or the baby care center or something like that.  It's
    clearly listed in the guide books for each park.
    
    I have never lost my children in one of the theme parks but I have
    "lost" Nicole twice in restaurants where we managed to walk out of
    her sight.  In both cases multiple cast members were with her as
    soon as she started to cry - she was within 20 feet of us and they
    got there first.
    
    If you are concerned about kidnapping, I saw some wonderful advice
    in the parenting notes conference.  In addition to teaching your
    children to scream if someone grabs them, have them yell that the
    person who is grabbing them is not their mother, father, sister,
    brother, etc.  The logic behind this is it's not unusual to see a
    child fussing, crying or screaming at their parents in public so
    people are less inclined to intervene when they see someone with a
    screaming child.  Having the child indicate they're not supposed
    to be with that person seems to get them to respond.
    
    Ruth

    Terry,
    
    At 8 & 9, your kids are old enough not to need too much of my advice,
    but for the benefit of parents who read this later:
    
    Leashes on kids are seen by many parents as an option to having to
    watch them.  Unfortunately, this frequently causes more problems than
    it would have solved.  I have been one of those people who has
    been tripped by a parent allowing the child to wander, thereby taking
    up the whole sidewalk.
    
    In the case of small children I have gone to the point of testing them
    in their ability to recite their and my names, have made sure that they
    are aware of the fact that I would never abandon them (and would be
    looking for them if it should happen that we get separated), and
    introduced them to a Cast Member (any will do), so that they get a good
    look at what a Cast Member ID looks like.
    
    tom

    well, we're one set of parents that use the parent/child cord.
    I don't want to get too heavey here, but I [since I've used it] see
    no long lasting impressions on our 3 little puppies.  they are now
    11,12 and 16, all adults by Disney standards, and now they don't even
    chew my shoes if I forget and leave them out!
    seriously, there are people who see whatever they want.  for use they
    allowed the children some amount of freedom.  a small hand being held by
    a larger hand gets rather tired.  and some children [mine especially]
    are rather impulsive and can [and do] take off faster than a speeding
    bullet.  the cords would never prohibit a kidnapping.  they are not
    handcuffs!  velcro holds the wrist strap on. I don't know that they are
    a substitute for monitoring either.
    And probably my kids have bothered other people at some point.  we try
    hard.  but if you go to WDW looking to be bothered, you'll find
    something.
    
    relax, enjoy life.  your reasons may not match someone else's.
    
    ed
    

     Terry,

     Don't worry about your kids being harmed.  In six trips
     to WDW and two to Miami/the Keys I have not had any
     kind of problems with any sort of crime.  Just be
     reasonably prudent.  In fact I'd say that at WDW you'd
     be safer than at home.

     You may want to rent a vehicle the first week instead
     of relying on a hotel shuttle.  With your own vehicle
     you can come and go on *your* schedule.  Also you may
     want to just zip to a store to pick up a forgotten item
     or snacks.  (Snacks - On my vacations snacks are an
     important item)  I used the Meers shuttle to my hotel
     one trip and on more that one time during that trip
     wanted to go to pick something up and could not.  The
     resort (at least at the Polynesian) stores are
     expensive.  $1 for a can of Coke.  You may not need a
     mini-van for 4 people - especially 9 & 10 yr olds.  I
     rented a 4 door Chevy Cavalier at National for under
     $100/week the first week in Dec. 93.  You may want the
     next size car larger.   There are specials a lot of the
     time.

     Have fun.

     Richard

    To one and all
    
    Many thanks for you prompt inputs, I,m getting to understand just how
    keen you people get when it comes to Disney.
    
    Your comments have been most reassuring and please feel free to add any
    other tips that come to mind.  I will be printing off your responses in
    order to show Denise (my wife), for the childrens sake I need to put
    her mind at rest!
    
    I'll be perusing the notes from now to October and look forward to
    posting my Trip Report some time in November.
    
    Many thanks once again.
    
    Best regards
    
    Terry

    Quite a few years ago my nephew got lost at WDW.  He was in a store and
    got seperated from the family.  He was about 3-4 yrs. old at the time. 
    "Goofy" was the cast member to realize Ethan was lost and he stayed
    right with him and took him to the Lost Childrens Section.  My sister
    was told where to go "claim" him.  The cast member was able to care for
    Ethan without frightening him at all.  
    
    To this day Goofy is my nephews favorite Disney character!
    
    I really wouldn't worry about your children.  We were at Disney when my
    kids were 8.5, 6.5 and 3.  The crowds can be overwhelming (but
    shouldn't be as bad in Oct. as they were in August when we were there)
    but the kids never got out of our sight.  Your kids are old enough to be
    able to meet at a predetermined location if you become seperated. 
    If you are going to be in a certain section for awhile you can show
    them an area to go to if they can't find you in X minutes.  The other
    suggestions in this string are very good also.
    
    I also "leashed" my kids when they were younger.  The "leash" looks
    like a curly telephone cord and attaches around the wrist.  We also had
    a "harness" type for our youngest.  It's not that I worried about
    kidnapping...just wanted to not have to chase them around all the time.
    
    You'll have a wonderful time at WDW! 

    Terry,
    
    There are a lot of variables in your favor that should ease your
    mind.
    
    First off your children are old enough to be aware of their
    surroundings so that a predetermined meeting place shouldn't be a
    problem after only one day in a park.
    
    Secondly, you are going down during a "light" time of the year as far
    as crowds are concerned.
    
    Also, because of the time of year you are visiting WDW your children
    will be among the few children of school age there which will make it
    easier for you to keep watch over them. July would present a problem.
    
    Finally, since you are visiting for the first time both you and your
    children will be a bit cautious about your surroundings...that in
    itself will make everyone more aware.
    
    But remember that WDW is family oriented and you will all be enjoying
    the sights and sounds together as a family.
    
    Enjoy it.
    
    Mike

Hi,

I'm looking for advice, what else? I'm planning a trip to Orlando in June, two
adults and two children (ages 4 & 9). I rekon my best bet is to book a fly drive
and then accomodation seperate. Now the question, should I book a hotel, a motel
or should I go for a trailer?

Will a family room be large enough for us? Do motel rooms come with fridges or
even kitchens? If it's going to be much more economical we don't mind self
catering to a certain degree.

I've never been Stateside before, is June a busy month in WDW or in Florida
for that matter?

Regards,

Alan Mac AYO

      Alan,

      I made the trip last year with a family of the same ages roughly.

      We booked a villa with swimming pool for maximum luxury and freedom.
      Hotels and/or trailer have their benefits as well , it is whatever 
      you prefer.

      It is/will be busy when you go down. Remember that there are three 
      World Cup games at that time as well , one of them being Ireland.

      The weather will be hot ( 90+ ) and thunderstorms most days for an hour
      or so.

      Regards,
      Tony. 

    I agree no problem on security with kids. My experience is that only
    about 1 in 500 kids has one of these leashes. They are really not
    used much anywhere in the US that I've seen. 
    
    Vistana is a highly rated timeshare resort close to disney. I've stayed
    at another that is somewhat similar but do not have knowledge on
    Vistana itself other than indirectly. Vistana is very large and the
    complementary bus is probably correct. As far as room goes I assume
    you have a two bedroom unit, there would be almost nothing in Disney
    to compare to these units if similar to ours, anything in Disney would
    be a major league step down and anything similar would require great
    wealth to afford. There will probably be a lot of things for you and
    your family to do right at the Vistana resort, they probably have
    a fairly large program of activities.
    
    I would however suggest getting a car for week at Disney also. There
    are many places to go in WDW and the shuttle probably hits the big
    ones mostly or may take a while to get to others. If you count in
    transportation from airport it may be almost as cheap to rent 
    a car. I used to see ads for minivans at about $200 a week, no idea
    if available now. CDW would $80 to $100 bucks more, hopefully you
    will not need. I believe the flexibility of having the car the full
    time will greatly offset the small additional cost. October is
    a slow time and is excellent to see WDW because of small crowds. That
    will also mean driving will be easy also. Another thing that might
    affect price, if you take taxi to Vistana and then rent car, there may
    be an additional one way charge if you drop the car off at airport, 
    since it was rented elsewhere. I am not sure but this could happen
    so investigate. 
    
    You may want to consider the AP also since it provides a lot
    of flexibility and you are there two weeks. Especially if you
    have to buy one of these new passes which do not allow you to move
    around. Lots of notes on this so read them. 
    
    					Harold
    

    Most hotel rooms do not have refrigerators and no kitchens. 
    One noter got reservations at Vistana which is very near
    WDW, these are large two bedroom units. You could ask about
    Orange Lake Country Club which is another large timeshare.
    It has a lake 3 pools, lots of activities, 27 holes of golf
    on a beautiful course at prices that would make someone playing
    at WDW cry. 15 tennis courts. Their 2 Bedroom villas are large,
    over 1200 sq feet with very large patios. ALmost all units are single level.
    They have everything inside, full kitchen, clothes washer, dryer
    microwave, pots, dishes the works. They sleep 8, 6 on beds.
    These units can sometimes be available for $700 a week or $100
    a night, they can be higher. No comparison to WDW, they are
    much, much, much nicer than any hotel room in WDW. There are
    other similar villas etc.
    
    First two weeks of June should be less crowded than last two weeks.
    Thunderstorms will typically hit in afternoon, I would guess from
    my old experience many years ago that the duration would more 
    typically be 30 minutes or less, not an hour. If you get caught in
    one without shelter nearby then expect to be soaked. One time
    I was at Disney and we went into one of the EPCOT sights with lots
    of sun, came out 20 minutes later and there was wet pavement etc.
    everywhere from a thunderstorm, but it was gone and sun was back
    out. YOu can get a lot of water in a very short time in a
    Florida Thunderstorm.
				Harold
    

I have loads of info on hotels around WDW and will be there myself in 
May/June. Ring me if you want to chat. 7851 1080.

Robin (Warrington)

    What would you recommend, for the first night, for first-time visitors
    to WDW?
    
    My husband and kids (ages 6 and 8) have never been to WDW.  My kids
    really have no clue - they think this may be as big as Whalom Park
    (which knocked their socks off).  I haven't been since 1976.
    
    We're scheduled to arrive at 4:00 in Orlando, taking a shuttle, and
    staying at CBR.
    
    I see from note 98 that the parks are open until 9 that night.
    
    What are your suggestions for an evening agenda?  I'd love to wow them.
    
    Thanks for your ideas!
    
    Jane

    Jane,
    
    First I would check to see if SpectroMagic is playing twice that night.
    It's probably only running once if the park is open 'til 9.
    
    You may want to consider doing the Jungle Cruise, Big Thunder, and
    Splash at night. Top it off with SpectroMagic and "Fantasy In the
    Sky."
    
    regarding "Fantasy..." make sure you're in front of the castle and a 
    bit to the right so your kids can see Tinkerball fly down from the 
    castle....BUT DON'T TELL THEM ABOUT TINK....it'd be a nice little
    surprise for them.
    
    I'd also consider treating the kids to an ice cream at the best ice
    cream place in the World and that's the Plaza Restaurant (is it still
    called the Plaza Ice Cream Parlor?) If you do that and you love ice
    cream try the Bicycle Built for Two on the menu.
    
    Mike

    I am confused and I'm sure someone out there knows the answers I seek.
    
    This is from WDW With Kids 94, in the Touring Plans section:
    
    "1. Come early!... 
    
    2. On the evening when you arrive, dial... [get opening times] ...
       Note: Guests at Disney hotels are often allowed into the parks a
       full hour ahead of the stated opening times during the busy summer
       season.  ...
    
    3.  Even if the park doesn't open ahead of the stated time, guests are
    frequently ushered into the first section of the park early.  This
    means you can get maps and entertainment schedules before you enter the
    body of the park, and even eat breakfast if you order something simple
    and eat fast.
    	In the MK, visitors are usually allowed to travel the length of
    Main Street before the part actually opens.  You can window-shop, grab
    a muffin at the Main Street Bakery, and still be at the ropes blocking
    the end of Main Street by 9 AM, far ahead of the throngs outside the
    main turnstile."
    
    My questions: Does "visitors" refer to resort guests in this passage? 
    Is this because resort guest are taking Disney transportation (bus from
    CBR for us) and bypassing the "main turnstile"? 
    
    In February, resort guests were getting into one park early per day, on
    a rotating schedule.  So is this saying that if the park that is
    opening early to resort guests on a particular day is not the one you
    want to start in, for some reason, then show up early anyway and you'll
    get in to Main Street (for MK) or other entrance areas in the others?
    
    Or is this limited to resort guests at all?
    
    Thanks for clearing this up for me,
    
    Jane
    

    Jane,
    
    When they say "Guests" I believe they are referring to resort guests.
    
    Early admission allows only resort guests into the park and portions of
    FantasyLand (MK) before the non-resort guests.
    
    I recall that when we got to the turnstiles you had to show your resort
    ID in order to get in the park.
    
    Hope that clears it a bit.
    
    Mike

    Dave:
    
    >how am I doing so far?
    
    the answer is poor.  You need to read more notes.
    
    You also need to give more information.
    
    1st off, you ARE NOT going to get a Disney World Vacation if you skimp
    and stay off property.  It just will not happen, you will not
    experience a Disney World Vacation.  Oh, you may see the parks, but
    you will NOT get the experience.  It will NOT be a Disney vacation.
    It will be a vacation that includes a VISIT to Disney.  There is a 
    difference, and if all you can afford is the second, that's ok, no 
    problem, just understand that that is what you are buying.
    
    the second problem I can spot from a mile away is the problem you WILL
    have if you attempt to tour together.  You may be the best of brothers,
    but you are combining two families, and children of great age differnce
    and interests.  either the 5 year old or the 15 year old will be bored
    if touring together.  When you get back let me be the first to say
    I told you so.
    
    final comment, your subtitle"sign me: still no interest in Disney"
    can be viewed as how much fun a Disney vacation will be for you.
    My boss of a couple years ago went there with a similiar attitude.
    Only he thought he could spend his way to happyness with his family.
    $5000 later [and he counted every penny he spent toward happyness] and
    one would have thought he visited Buffalo.
    The Disney vacation and associated happyness begns with the decision to
    go.
    
    perhaps I'm too much of a puriest
    ed
    

                <<< VAXUUM::W7_:[NOTES$LIBRARY]DISNEY.NOTE;1 >>>
                       -< The Disneyphile's Disney File >-
     ===========================================================================
NCMAIL::KINNEYD "All Mach, No Vector"                44 lines   4-NOV-1994 10:35
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Well, this is an interesting conference!!!!!
    
    I have previously had no interest in Disney, until everyone in the
    family is now demanding a Disney World Vacation in the Spring. So 
    naturally I have begun *wading* through the strings here for tips
    and clues. (just beginning!)
    
    This trip will include MY wife, two kids (boys 10 & 5), myself, _and_ 
    my brother and sister in law, and their two kids (girl 12, boy 15). 8^}
    We all get along well while living on opposite sides of town, but hey,
    no-one has been to Disney before, Dsiney virgins if you will!
    Me thinks I'm in big trouble already!!!!
    
    Arrangements we have made so far:
    
    We have procurred a 4 bdm condo time share supposedly 4 miles away from
    Mickey's place, at no cost through other family. So far so good.
    
    We have decided to take the kids out of school in mid May for the week
    to avoid crowds and accomodate the time shre schedule. Other options
    were late July and August. (we thought too hot and crowded)
    
    We have looked into going through USAIR Vacation services, which
    says we can buy:
    
    Round trip non stop air from Rocheser, NY to Orlando
    2 mid size rental cars
    2 days at Universal, Wet and Wild, and Church Street Station (??)
    
    For $377 per adult, $302 per Jr. (10-17), and 247 for kid (3-9), total
    of $2661. I called to ge the air alone and it was total $2292.
    
    Anyone know what the tickets included in this package are worth??
    
    I am in process of comparison shopping.
    
    I desperatly want to get a break on the Disney/Epcot tickets which look
    to me to be a gouge job. so far this notes file seems to be the most
    current source of information I have.
    
    How am I doing so far?
    
    Dave Kinney
    

    Dave,
    
    I can't tell you how many first-timers have come back from a WDW
    vacation and have said, "I don't know what you see in that place."
    
    Of course these people most likely stay off property, go with a
    lot of people, and try to do EVERYTHING in a short period of time.
    
    That's not to say you won't have a great time. We're just saying that
    if you do a few things you have a better chance of having a great time.
    
    Let's look at a few things:
    
        - I do not know of anyone who will stay off the property after they
          have experienced a Disney resort. Think about it.
    
        - Speaking from experience traveling with a lot of people can lead
          to some problems because everyone will establish their own 
          personal agenda once they step foot on Disney property...you can
          take that to the bank. Think about dividing your group when you
          get into the park. Plan beforehand where the groups will meet
          (for lunch, etc.
    
        - Finally, you have to accept the fact that you will not be able to
          experience everything on this, your first trip. This means you 
          need to plan your days, with flexible schedules.
         
      Please take this advice in good spirit. And ask away on any aspect 
      of your trip. The people in here have a passion for WDW and want you
      to feel the same way when you return.
    
    Mike

    
    Dave,
    
    Don't worry, you can have a really good time staying off property. 
    Although we prefer to stay on property, if I had the choice of staying
    in a nearby condo for free or pay $700-1400 to stay on property, I'd
    stay in the condo every time.  Actually, I'd try to extend for a few
    extra days and stay on property.  But remember, always stay off
    property first, then stay on property.  It's very difficult to go in
    the other direction.
    
    I think the reason that the others think you will miss something is
    that, with a 5-year-old, you may need to rest often.  It is a lot
    easier to do that when you are staying in one of the Disney hotels.  I
    would suggest bringing an old stroller with you if you can get your son
    into it.  It will allow you to go where you want to go when you want to
    go, rather than go at the pace of a 5-year-old.  (Of course, my kids
    were small and it was relatively easy to push them around.)
    
    Also, with only a week, you might have one day to spend elsewhere.  So,
    the Universal tickets and Wet'n'Wild tickets might be wasted.  Of
    course, you can always use them next time you go down.
    
    Keep reading the notesfile and you'll get a lot of good hints.
    
    --Jay
    

    
    Hi, I'll be travelling to WDW this winter with my family of 5, 3 kids
        ages 7, 8, and 12.  We'll be driving down from Mass. (I know I 
        must be a glutton for punishment, just kidding).  
        Anyway we have tentatively sheduled the week of Dec.31 to Jan.7
        at a timeshare condo outside of WDW. A couple of questions I have.
        Is this a good week as far as avoiding the crowds?  What will the
        weather be like? Outdoor swimming possible? And when should I buy
        the tickets, i'm looking at purchasing 3 day all park passes, can
        I get these here or when I get to the park?  Again these dates can
        be changed but I'm looking at having the least impact on school
        for the kids and this week looks good as it's just an extended 
        Christmas vacation.   Oh by the way, this is our 1st trip to WDW
        as if you couldn't tell   :^)
    
    John
     

    John, 
    
    December 31 through January 7 will be a good time for avoiding crowds. 
    Remember, though, that the parks will be closing early, so
    Spectromagic and Sorcery in the Sky will not be shown. Also, Typhoon
    Lagoon traditionally closes the day after New Year's for refurbishment/
    renovation. If that is an attraction which is important to your kids
    it won't be available. 
    
    As far as swimming weather, there is no guarantee that it will be warm
    enough for swimming. Usually it is, but there have been a few times
    in recent years that cold spells have hit Florida. I froze there 
    Christmas 1989. 
    
    You'll have a great time regardless.
    
    Linda 

    Sorry, John, meant to put this in the last reply. 
    
    Disney no longer has three day passports. Since you are staying off
    property, th minimum pass period (beyond one day at a time) is four
    days. You can buy them ahead of time at the Disney store in various 
    locations. 
    
    Linda

John,

We drove down in July last year. It was the first time we drove down
(3 kids 7, 11, 16). Although it was a long trip (we took 3 days);
I really enjoyed it. The kids brought a tape player and books and
played games. 

The drive eas kind of like a mini-vacation itself.

Doug

    John,
    
    Doug made some good suggestions regarding keeping the kids occupied
    on the way down. Hand-held video games are good too.
    
    Figure 3 days driving to and from...especially with young kids who may
    need a pit stop here and there.
    
    Leave as early as you can each morning. The kids will end up sleeping
    most of the morning drive.
    
    YOu have to decide yourself if you will stop at South of the Border
    on the way down or on the way back...it'd be tough to keep a visit to
    SOB under 2 hours.
    
    Mike

    
    
    Thanks for the info everyone, the kids are counting the day's now.
    
    Mike, a stop at South of the Border is a definate, my son will love
    it, i'm not so sure about my S.O. though.... oh well
    
    I know there are postings of Disney stores in Mass. in this file but
    i'm pressed for time, can someone post them here or direct me? I 
    think that's where I'll buy tickets.
    
    Thanks,
           John

First of all, thank you for all of the information I have gotten here!
It's great!

It looks like we are finally going to have our long-planned trip.  Now
I'm frantically reading the file again.  :-)  Some questions I still need
to find the answers to:

   Do Annual Passes allow you to Park hop?  (go to more than one park on the
      same day)

   Which ride is it that the line on the right is faster than the one on the 
      left?

   Are Disney ponchos still yellow?  (I'll have us take ones of a different
      color)

I'll keep reading for the answers to the other questions.  :-)

  Carol

    re:.265
    
    Yes, annual passes allow park hopping. We decided to go that route
    again for convenience rather than economics. If we want to take a
    short walk up to EPCOT for something to eat we can do it without
    using a whole day's admission. 
    
    Linda

As of August '93 the Mickey Slickers were still yellow.

				Tracy

The recent note in 150.* about no fall AP specials leads me to ask:

If I don't find any AP specials for when I want to stay there, can I make
reservations at the resort I want, then change it to an AP special rate if
one comes up later?

Can I make reservations at a different Disney resort, then if an AP special
comes up for the more expensive hotel I prefer can I change to there with the
AP rate?

      Carol

>If I don't find any AP specials for when I want to stay there, can I make
>reservations at the resort I want, then change it to an AP special rate if
>one comes up later?

>Can I make reservations at a different Disney resort, then if an AP special
>comes up for the more expensive hotel I prefer can I change to there with the
>AP rate?

Hi Carol.  I would bet that you could do either of these things.  In fact, if
you want to do the latter, you could probably make reservations at both resorts.
Then if the annual passport special came through you could cancel the less
expensive resort, and if it didn't, cancel the more expensive one.  The only
thing you'd have to do is to pay the down-payment for both.  When you cancel
one, its down-payment would be transferred to the one you keep.

I'm doing this now for my trip in May.  I'm not sure who's going yet, so I
have reservations at Port Orleans in case there are only a couple of us, and
reservations at the Beach Club in case there are 4 or 5 or us.  Both
reservations are for the same days -- the CRO people don't have a problem
with this.

						Tracy

>If I don't find any AP specials for when I want to stay there, can I make
>reservations at the resort I want, then change it to an AP special rate if
>one comes up later?
    
    Maybe.  They allocate a certain number of rooms for each type of
    special (MKC, AP, American Express, etc.).  If all the AP rooms have
    been reserved you wouldn't be able to change your regular reservation
    to an AP reservation.  It is possible to mix and match reservations if
    they don't have special rooms available for all of your stay - e.g.
    2 MKC days and 3 AP days.
    
    A split reservation will add some logistic hassles but I've had good
    luck with them.
    
      1.  You can be put on a waiting list in case some of the other days
          become available.  They will automatically add new days as they
          become available but only if they are sequential.  If you're
          reservation ends on Monday, they will not add Wednesday to it
          but will add Sunday or Tuesday.  They may or may not notify you
          of the changes so you need to keep track of it yourself.
    
          Note:  If any days are added to one reservation, they are not
                 automatically removed from your other reservation.  You
                 must call the CRO and cancel those days yourself.

      2.  You might have to change rooms during your stay.  Ask them at
          the time you make your reservations to note that you want to stay
          in the same room.  Remind them of your request at check in and
          they'll do their best to honor the request.
    
      3.  You'll need to make multiple deposits and will get multiple bills
          for your stay.
    
>Can I make reservations at a different Disney resort, then if an AP special
>comes up for the more expensive hotel I prefer can I change to there with the
>AP rate?
    
    Yes, they will cancel your first reservation and apply your deposit to
    the new reservation.  They're very cooperative and helpful when you do
    this.
    
    
    Tip:  When you call to make your reservation, ask for the cheapest
          room available in the resort you want.  They tend to start
          quoting the highest prices first.
    
    Ruth

Thank you both!  I had forgotten about double booking!  :-)

   Carol

Still looking to find out the answer to this one:


   Which ride is it that the line on the right is faster than the one on the 
      left?


:-}

>   Which ride is it that the line on the right is faster than the one on the 
>      left?

Hmmm...  I don't remember this being said about any *particular* attraction.
I've heard it given as a general rule of thumb for any two line attraction.

						Tracy

   >Which ride is it that the line on the right is faster than the one on the 
   >   left?
    
    Carol,
    
    I can't remember for sure.  Try looking in the Magic Kingdom topic.
    I remember notes about the pirates and the jungle cruise but I
    can't remember which side is faster.  Try looking for username
    TOMYL.  He was a former cast member and used to enter stuff like
    that.
    
    I'm pretty sure one side of the pirates covers a much shorter
    distance than the other and one side of the jungle cruise is used
    to fill more than half of the boat but I can't remember which
    sides are which!
    
    Ruth

    don't spoil your trip by trying to rush it or worry about which side is
    faster.  they'll both get you there.   make it interesting, play line
    games, i.e make a new friend, see who's wearing the weirdist clothes,
    make a kid smile, look for an interesting detail that a rusher may
    miss.   anything less than the 3-4 hours per attraction wait when I
    visited the first year it opened is quick.
    ed

    Carol,
    
    Hitting the parks early can also take the worry out of waiting in 
    long lines.
    
    Keep the left vs right "rule" in mind during the peak hours, especially
    in FantasyLand.
    
    Keep it in mind for The Maelstrom in Norway too.
    
    Mike

Thanks.  :-)  

February just didn't sound right to my family, and when Tracy put in the note
saying the time we were planning was in-season, we decided it was the wrong
time for us.  We are now working it out to go the week of my birthday, 
which is May 9.  :-)

There's no annual passholders specials at either of those times, though I
figure the chances are better in May.  Also, I found out that though I have
ordered and *paid for* a MKC Gold Card, they won't let me use it to order
an AP at the MKC rates until after I have already *received* the card, which
is about 6 weeks from now!!  If I had put everything off until I could do
it in *their* order, it would have cut it really close.  I much prefer having
the extra time (and possibly cheaper prices) of May.  :-)

And it's my BIRTHDAY!!!  :-)  (Now I'm starting to understand why Mike goes
then...)  :-}

   Carol

    Carol,
    
    Make sure that all your family members are aware that admission
    price changes, if they occur, take place in May. 
    
    You may want to have your AP, BOG, or multi-day passes in your
    hands well before the vacation.
    
    Mike_who_still_has_7_months_left_on_his_AP

I wasn't sure if I could get the BOG before I checked in or not.
I'm still comparing prices to the AP plus adders, too, so I'll know
later which I'm going with (though I'll likely have at least 1 AP
to start with.  We'll be there probably 8 nights, 9 days, with 1 day
outside of the park (Kennedy).  

I'm also trying to remember - can I make the AP special deal reservations
without having previously ordered the AP, or do I at least have to have
the voucher on me at the time?

   Carol

    Carol,
    
    I think you need the voucher or at least voucher information. Each
    AP comes with a number. I think that number needs to be validated
    before you make the deal.
    
    Then again I know that people have claimed to have waited until
    check-in to produce the voucher/AP so it sounds like you have
    been designated as special correspondent to find out "the story
    bbehind the story."
    
    Mike

    I am thinking of going to Disneyworld at end of December. Is it a
    good time ? What is the admission to Disney attractions (one day
    pass, two day pass, three day pass) ? Any creative ways to reduce
    this admission charge (coupons or whatever else)? Hotels ?
    
    I am sure answers to above questions are somewhere in the notes
    file. If you cannot provide a direct answer, please point to
    the right note.
    
    Thanks in advance.
    
    Pankaj Palvia
    
    
    
    

    Many of your questions can be answered in the "When to Go?", "First
    Timer's Questions", and "Price" notes. Do dir/title="" to locate the
    note numbers. Be advised that you are planning to be at WDW at one of
    the busiest times of the year and discounts are few and far between. 
    If you really want to go at that time you should make reservations
    ASAP. 
    
    This note is write-locked. 
    
    Linda
    Disney Co-Moderator

    
    Question:
    
    Which, if any, of the following Disney resorts can be visited if
    you're not staying on Disney property and are not going to the MK?
    I'd like to snoop around a little so I'll know where to stay on
    a visit in the distant future, when I'd want to stay on-site.
    The resorts I'd like to see are Wilderness Lodge, Polynesian Village,
    Yacht and Beach Clubs. 
    
    Thanks!
    
    -cg
    
    

    re:-.1
    
    You can visit the hotels 'really in the park' (contem, poly, GF) when
    you are going to the park.  You would have to pay for parking to get
    access to them. Just jump on the monorail and you can check them out.
    The other hotels can be accessed by car (without admission).
    
    -Jay
    

    OK, thanks. That's the impression I was getting from looking at the
    maps. Hope I have time to actually check them out!
    
    -cg

We once tried to drive around Caribbean Beach Resort just to take a look.
They wouldn't let us in without a resort pass for CBR, even though we were
staying in another resort on property.
							Tracy

    re: .286
    
    Although this isn't much help to you now, there is (or used to be) a
    second road into the CBR that allows you to bypass the security gate. 
    Depending on which complex you are staying in, it can be a lot quicker
    way to the parks.
    
    It has been quite a while since we stayed at CBR, so this might have
    changed.
    
    --Jay
    

    CBR security was increased a year or more go after a guest was attacked 
    in her room. A lawsuit charged that access to the property was not 
    controlled and the negligence contributed to the attack. 
    
    If you want to look around, try going over on the bus. I think you are 
    allowed on if you have an ID for any resort. 
    
    LINDA

    Although this isn't my first visit, it's been five years...will be six
    by the time I get there a year from this April...
    
    Anyway, in reading up on the new 5 day Super Duper passes...it says
    that it includes unlimited admission to TL, RC, PI, etc. (or whatever
    else) within 7 days that it's first.  Does this also mean that the
    entire pass has to be used within the seven day period?  We are going
    for two weeks, and wanted to disperse our Disney visits evenly
    throughout the two weeks.
    
    Also, we will be arriving on Easter Sunday (next year).  I read a small
    blurb about a big parade they have on Easter.  Is it worth "fighting
    the crowds" to see (as we'll be arriving after driving all night...) or
    should we just wait until later in the week when the crowds will be
    smaller.
    
    Thanks...
    
    

    the 5 days addmission to the parks has an indefinate use time.  Its
    only the 7 days to tl,rc,pi,DI, and now BB [listed on paperwork I got last
    night] is 7 consequtive days.
    when we go next december, we plan on going to MK the first day, next 6 
    at bb,tl,rc,&di, then back to the parks.  max value that way.
    
    the question on crowds may bring you several opinions.  Personally, my
    family like the larger crowds.  It's really no fun [for us] to walk
    onto all the rides.  You miss a lot.  also, in smaller crowds, there
    are less 'distractions' like street performers employeed.  
    
    ed
    

    
    re: .289
    
    I was there once on Easter Day when the Parade was happening.
    It was CROWDED.  There was no slack on any line even when the parade
    was running.  The good news was they were open till real late because
    of the crowds.
    
    To me there is a fine line between too little crowd vs. too much crowd.
    There is something to be said for having to wait a little bit so you
    can enjoy some of the pre-show areas, especially if you've never
    been before, but hour or more waits get annoying.
    
    To veterens, it may be easier to take the crowds in stride, or as
    part of the experience.....if it's been awhile since you've been and
    you chose this as your first day at MK, you may get ticked off.
    Since you're there two weeks, I'd avoid it and go on a Saturday when 
    they're open late.  To me the Easter parade wasn't all that different
    from the regular parades they have on regular late open day....
    
    If you decide you want to see that parade, let me give you a preview.
    You get there in the morning when they open, and decide to ride some
    rides before the parade.  As you are walking down Main St. you start
    to notice an awful lot of people sitting on the curbs.  You hit some
    rides and later you go to Main St., it's about 2 hours till the parade, 
    you figure you'll get a hot dog or something and get a good spot.  "Oh
    MY God!". The sidewalks are already four rows deep, and more people are 
    arriving every minute.  You decide to get out of main st. and head
    out toward other parts of the parade route.  Everywhere you see a good
    spot by the ropes (starting to go up) there's someone there stretched
    out telling everyone their Brazilian tour group is coming back from
    the Haunted Mansion in just a few minutes.  Pretty soon you heist
    the kid up on your shoulders, stand and watch the parade go by while
    everyone crowds you up.  And if your real lucky, they are doing this
    live for TV and they stop the parade for 10 mins about every 2 floats..
    I mean stop dead. Finally it's over, and before you can start to move you 
    remember you wanted to ride Splash Mountain.  Well, so did everyone else 
    and when you get there it's a 2 hour wait.  Disgusted, tired, and hungry
    you head out to Epcot, MGM, or back to the hotel....anywhere but
    in this crowd.  What have you gotten from this experience? About
    2 hours worth of rides for about 7 hours of park time, nothing to 
    eat, and a parade that didn't look all that different than the
    parade you watch later in the week when you go back on a less
    crowded day.
    
    Does this sound like the voice of experience talking?  I think about
    it everytime I watch a Disney holiday parade on tv.
    
    It's worth doing once....
    
    8^}
    
    --Bert
    

    Say it ain't so Bert.....
    
    ......Brazillians in April?!?!?!?
    
    Hmmm, if I were going for two weeks I'd think of buying APs 
    instead of a 5-Day Pass.
    
    Mike

    
    If you want to see the Easter Parade, watch it on TV like the rest of
    us.  ;^)
    
    --Jay 
    

    The other item...about the 5-day passes.  I heard that the price will
    increase sometime in the near future.  The reason being that now
    Blizzard Beach will be opened and included in the list of
    'attractions'.  
    
    I'm going in for 9 days in April and plan on using a 5 day pass instead
    of my new AP [don't want to waste it since there is no AP hotel special
    running at that time].  I've already bought my passes for the trip at
    the Disney store...              
    
    -Jay
    
    

    Help me understand the difference between a 5 day pass and an AP. 
    Mike, why would you buy the AP instead?  We are staying in our
    timeshare offsite (so don't need hotel specials) and I'm not at all
    familiar with the AP so don't know what I could be missing.
    
    Also, does anyone know the current price for a 5-day pass?  And if I
    buy them now at a Disney store, I essentially "lock in my rate"?  So,
    if anything more is added to the 5-day pass between now and then, would
    it still be included if I bought my passes a year in advance?
    
    Also, can someone fill me in on Blizzard Beach?  I've been reading the
    Unofficial Guide and Birnbaum's books from '93 - guess there are some
    changes, huh??
    
    Thanks so much for all of your replies so far...
    
    Jacqui
    

    Jacqui,
    
    If you go for 2 weeks would you buy just one five day pass ($170.51)
    and not do any parks for the other 9 days? Hmmm, that comes out to
    just over $34 per day but of course you get the PI,TL,DI,RI admission
    too.
    
    If you buy an AP ($219) that comes out to $44 for 5 days but drops to
    $27+ per day if you use it for 8 days. If you use the AP for every day
    then the price per day is $15+. The drawback is that the
    other (water) parks aren't included.
    
    APs should be used when going down for more than 8 days especially if
    it's during extended hours.
    
    I can remember going to Sea World and leaving at 4 P.M. and deciding
    NOT to go to a park because I didn't want to waste one of the days on
    my 5-Day Pass. I now use APs because I don't want to be faced with 
    those decisions when I'm down there.
    
    Last year I used APs and the price per day FOR THE WHOLE FAMILY was
    $44. Of course we would have to purchase admission to the other parks
    (like TL, DI, PI, etc.) if we went there....but it was still less
    expensive than buying 3 5-day passes for everyone.
    
    The math told me it would have been over $2000 versus $750. 
    
    If you intend on visiting the parks on only 5 days then by all means 
    settle for the 5-day. Like everyone else you need to sit down and
    really think about how you'll spend your time down there.
    
    If you buy a 5-day now you lock in the price.
    
    Blizzard Beach is supposed to open 1-April-1995 but that date sounds a
    bit iffy right now. I'm betting the week of 10-Apr-1995.
    
    Mike 

    Thanks for the reply, Mike.  Few more questions...
    
    Since we'll be driving, we figure we'll have 12 actual days to "play"
    with.  We also want to go to the Kennedy Space Center, Sea World and
    Universal (so far) and want to make sure we include plenty of relax
    time to enjoy the 10 pools at the resort we'll be staying at.  So, it
    seems unlikely we'll spend more than 5 days at Disney (not including
    TL, which will be another day).
    
    Do you folks know how much the children's (is it 3-12 years old?) 5-day
    pass is?
    
    From the past replies, given that we'll be arriving (after driving the
    better part of two days) on Easter Sunday, I think we'll watch the
    parade on TV "like the rest of the folks!".  It seems from what I've
    read that the parks are open to midnight the weeks surrounding Easter. 
    Does that sound right?  If so, we'll have plenty of time to see a
    parade, and since we haven't seen any "live", we'll have nothing to
    compare it to, so missing the Easter parade doesn't seem like a big
    deal.  I think we'll relax the day we get there and gear up for the
    sites the next day.
    
    Also, excuse my ignorance, but what IS Blizzard Beach?
    
    Thanks again...
     

RE: .296

>    If you buy an AP ($219) that comes out to $44 for 5 days but drops to
>    $27+ per day if you use it for 8 days. If you use the AP for every day
>    then the price per day is $15+. The drawback is that the
>    other (water) parks aren't included.

Mike knows this....

Just for 'completeness' for 299.00 you can get the Premium AP which 
includes Pleasure Island, Typhoon Lagoon, River Country, Discovery 
Island and Blizzard Beach.  So that is another $10.00/day if you are 
interested in going to these over an 8 day period.

RE: .298

>    Do you folks know how much the children's (is it 3-12 years old?) 5-day
>    pass is?

AP pass for ages 3-9 is 189.00 over 9 is considered an adult.
5-day pass  ages 3-9 is 136.21

These are MKC prices.

>    parade on TV "like the rest of the folks!".  It seems from what I've
>    read that the parks are open to midnight the weeks surrounding Easter. 
>    Does that sound right?  If so, we'll have plenty of time to see a

Well they usually have extended hours during a 'holiday week'...but 
this may mean 9pm closing at the Magic Kingdom instead of 6pm during 
the week and midnight on the weekend.
    
>    Also, excuse my ignorance, but what IS Blizzard Beach?

It is a new water park with a 'northpole' type of theme.

-Jay

    I would think that somewhere they are printing new multi-day passes
    that include the words "Blizzard Beach" on the list with Typhoon
    Lagoon, Pleasure Island, and the rest of the satellite parks.
    
    Jay, I think I'd probably go for that Premium AP if I were a local.
    
    Hmmm, that means my cost per day would be $.82
    
    ;^)

    >Jay, I think I'd probably go for that Premium AP if I were a local.
    
    Actually, some people say that I'm cheap...I like to say thrifty and I
    over analyze almost every purchase to get the 'best deal'. [like many
    engineers].
    
    Anyways I've been splurging [sp?] lately....
    
    1. Went for the 2 year Gold MKC card [although the extra benefits are
    marginal]...
    2. Actually bought the Premium AP pass on my AP renewal.  [although
    they charged me the regular renewal rate and not the MKC discounted
    rate...called and will get my $21.20 back at 'picture time'.
    
    In both cases the real reason I got them was that I could have a single
    card that wouldn't get beat up in my wallet.  
    
    With the AP pass I really like to go to PI so I always got that adder,
    I usually go to TL once or twice and since I stay at FW most of the
    time I end up going to River Country once or twice.  What I hate is
    having the extra 'rider cards'....and I end up paying around the same
    amount anyways.
    
    -Jay

    The premium AP isn't that bad of a deal if you are there for 10+
    days and you go to TL, BB, and PI at least 2 times each.
    
    I agree with Jay about the adders being a problem. Maybe the APs
    should have special bar/color codes so you could customize the
    pass.
    
    For instance if I want a custom AP that gives me admission to
    TL-(BLUE), PI-(RED), and BB-(GREEN) then those colors would
    be displayed prominently on the pass.
    
    Something should be stressed here and that is that APs MAY NOT
    be the best route for first-timers. It's important to note that
    regardless of how you plan your time down there your first time
    visiting Orlando sometimes throws a wrench into your plans. It's
    best to enjoy your first time and note how you spend your time and
    plan accordingly for your next trip.
    
    The initial trip is an education that can serve as a guideline to
    making better use of time and money on your second trip.
    
    Mike

    So the question is what benefits do I have other than a possible price
    increase iin buying the 5 day World Hopper pass in advance? Also how do
    you get your picture taken down there....what do they give until then?
    
    We are going down on April 10, So hopefully Blizzard beach will be
    open, I will definietly let you know how it is.
    
    Also, I saw a note in here earlier, but am still not clear; Is there a
    way to have breakfast with the cast, or some type of party with them,
    Hoopla something....If so what is the number I call for Reservations
    and how much in advance do I need to call?
    
    Thanks for all your input, JHust counting the days and packing the
    trailer...thank goodness it's been somewhat warm up herein NYS.
    
    Jim

	They take your picture with a camera connected (I guess via a PC) to
	an HP laser printer which prints your photograph on the ticket.

    Hmmm, seeing that my son will have JUST turned 10 when we go...do they
    ask for birth certificates when purchasing tickets?  Is there any
    "advantage" to him having an adult vs. a child's pass?\
    

    I just spoke with a person from Disney and they mentioned that the
    Price is already in affect and that it does include Blizzard Beach....
    
    I bought my tickests today before the price goes up at the Disney
    stores , April 2.
    
    Thanks 

re:.307
    
>    Hmmm, seeing that my son will have JUST turned 10 when we go...do they
>    ask for birth certificates when purchasing tickets?  Is there any
>    "advantage" to him having an adult vs. a child's pass?\


I think it is by the date you make the reservation :-) ...

One of my children's birthdays was during one of our past trips I paid 
for a 9yr old.

-Jay
    

    Reservation for what?  I was referring to the 5-day super duper pass...

>    Reservation for what?  I was referring to the 5-day super duper pass...

I was referring to the reservation to go to WDW...

I wouldn't worry about your sons ticket if he has a birthday while 
your down there.  Twice our trip has fallen on on of my childrens 
birthdays.

-Jay

    But do they ask for a birth certificate or anything?  All of our kids
    are very large for their ages and we are wondering if they will think
    our daughter, who will be 34 months when we go, is actually 3 years old
    and try to charge us for her.
    
    Has anyone run into this problem?

    re: 312
    
    When my daughter was three, I went to buy a passport for her.  The
    ticket agent looked at her and said, "She doesn't look three to me." 
    Then he wouldn't sell me a passport.  We just wheeled her in in her
    stroller and never had a question asked.
    

    Thanks, Jay.

    I agree with Jay.  As a former Disney employee I can tell you that the
    policy is give the guest the benefit of any doubt (unless, you know,
    someone with facial hair is trying to pass themselves off as under 12)
    :)
    
    Have a great trip!
    
    Chip

	OK, some first-timer questions after navigating through
        some of the various topics in this file.

          
        - Annual Passport vouchers have no expiration date, until
          the first day you "activate them" at WDW, from there it
          it is good for one year. I can buy today at this year's rate 
          knowing I won't use until next year...right? The answer seemed
          to be yes in the AP topic, but just wanted to confirm.

        - Chances seem good that if you plan on travelling to WDW
          during a value season period there will probably be an AP
          special? Is there a charge if you book in advance and
          then re-book?

          Example: Normal Poly price too expensive,  but I book today in 
                   anticipation of AP special next year.

          AP special happens        - I can re-book at the AP price? 
                                      
          AP special doesn't happen - I can cancel at Poly and re-book
                                      at CBR? Any charge?


          Thanks, Phil

    I am going to WDW this June. We've made reservations for Alfredo's &
    Coral Reef. Any suggestions for the first night there to get us in th
    Disney state of mind?

Hmmmm.  Dining to get you in to the Disney State of Mind...  Good challenge!

I thought of a couple of things.  In the moderate category, if the parks are
open late, How about Tony's Town Square?  I don't think anything does more
for the state of mind than Main Street in The Magic Kingdom.

In EPCOT I would have voted for the Coral Reef, but that's already on your 
schedule.  As an alternate, how about the outdoor dining at Le Bistro, 
Rose & Crown, or a picnic dinner... during IllumiNations?

I'm afraid I can't think of a good option at MGM Studios...

Finally, outside the parks I would pick the terrace of Porto Bello Yacht Club,
Narcoosee's (at the Grand Floridian) during the Water Pageant (10pm?), or
the Chef's special at Ariel's followed by wine tasting.

We often choose to have our "splurge" dinners on our first and last nights..
to get in the right frame of mind, and to make it last as long as possible.

Bill A.

I'm going to assume you don't have admission for that first night and stick
with places outside of the parks...

I'd second Narcoossee's during the water pagent -- that would be really cool.
Or how about Flaglers?  That's where I've eaten the first dinner on my last
two trips and it's a great way to start with the strolling, singing servers.

For my upcoming trip, we're having our first dinner at Whispering Canyons.
I'm looking forward to checking out the Wilderness Lodge, and I know my 
littler nephew (he'll be almost 5) will love the gun fights among the servers.
As he says of himself and his friend, "Me and Brian Buckley *love* violence!".
Sigh.

If you want an elegant first night, I'd go for Ariels at the Beach Club, or
maybe the Empress Room on the Empress Lily.  If you want good 'ole time, how
about doing the Hoop Dee Doo to get off to a good start?

					Tracy

<I'd second Narcoossee's during the water pagent -- that would be really cool.

What time is the water pageant??  Is it on every night?

    Carol

// What time is the water pageant??  Is it on every night?

As far as I know it's every night.  It starts around 9:00 over near the
MK, passes by the Grand Floridian, the Polynesian, and the Contemporary.
Then it makes it's way over toward Fort Wilderness and probably passes
the Wilderness Lodge on it's way.  I think that's the route anyway.  I'm
pretty sure it doesn't get to FW until 9:45 or so.

						Tracy

Oops.  I just realized that we're in the wrong note here.  Could someone
move all this to the First Timer's Questions for WDW instead of Disneyland?

The last 5 replies are relocated to hre from note 240, since they relate to
WDW and not DisneyLand.  Thanks to the person who noticed and requested the
move!

Bill A. doing Mod Duty

So what *is* the Village Marketplace?  I assume this is outside the 3 major
parks, true?  

Why would I want to go there, except to eat at Chef Mickey's?

    Carol

    Hi Carol,
    
    The Village Marketplace is 'next door' to Pleasure Island....confusable
    as one big complex except you don't have to pay any admission for the
    Village. Acutally, there's no admission to walk through PI before
    about 5 or 6 but there's nothing open but the Fireworks Factory.
    
    It's pretty much just shopping and eating.  There's a movie theater
    there, too. My wife always makes me go to the Christmas store there.....
    I guess if I gotta go it might as well be a Disney Christmas store!  
    
    --Bert

You can also rent boats and water sprites and stuff there.  Even golf carts
to cruise up through the golf course and through the Village Resorts if you
want to take a look.
						Tracy

    Carol,
    
    The Village Marketplace has this huge Character Shop and it's in this
    Character Shop that you would probably find the "perfect" WDW memento.
    
    It's a nice break from the park crowds.
    
    Mike

    re:-.1
    
    Actually I was disappointed this past trip.  My kids have each bought
    one of those 'larger' stuffed animals on each trip.  Like usual we
    waited until our trip to the Character Shop for our selection.  Upon
    arrival there was little variety and to our dismay a number of their
    choices were not even in stock.  The worse part was we saw them in
    other shops [in small quantities] during the previous 2 days.  
    
    Anyways I did find what I think was the last Pumbaa in all of WDW...
    
    On the other side of the coin the Charater Shop does have the largest
    collection of stuff 'on property' and you MKC discount it allowed
    there...where it is not in the other shops in the parks [BTW the
    discount is also given in the hotel shops].
    
    Cheers,
    
    -Jay
    

You folks are so helpful!

We will have a refrigerator in the room.  Is the place to get milk and cereal
(when you have a car) called "Goodings"?  Can I get easy directions from you?

     Carol

    Goodings is right at the intersectionof 535 and 4.  From the Disney
    Village Marketplace you take Hotel Plaza Blvd from the Buena Vista Dr.
    end to the other end [intersects with 535].  Go straight across at the
    lights into a cluster of restaurants/stores [MacDonalds or BK is on the
    corner] and Goodings is on your left.
    
    From the Grand Floridian location I always think it is easier to drive
    straight out the main gate to Rt 192 and find a store on that strip.
    
    Have a great time 
    
    -jay
    

    RE: Goodings and stores on 192 ...
    
    Heading east on 192 it is a long way before you get to a market that
    has as much as Goodings has to offer. There are a few small "super
    markets" (that's what the sign says anyway), but the closest store that
    is as large as Goodings is a Publix that is prob'ly about 4-6 miles away
    from WDW. These smaller stores would surely have milk and other things.
    Goodings would probably have better prices and lots more to choose
    from. I'd go to Goodings.
    
    I don't know what there is if you head west on 192. There might be
    other large grocery stores that way.
    
    
    

    re:-.1
    
    Yup the first large store is Publix [which I would recommend over
    Goodings if anyone is *really* food shopping...Goodings is well
    overpriced because of the captive audience :-)].  Since she was staying
    at the GF 192 probably is a lot closer and for the first timer simple
    to get to on the first day. There are a number of 'mini-markets' close
    to Rt 4 including one at I think it was a Shell or Mobil station [with
    actually lower price milk than Goodings].
    
    -Jay
    

    You may ask about a new Publix on 192 West of WDW. On our last visit
    in April 94 a new Publix was to be built about 3 to 4 miles WEST
    of the WDW rt 192 entrance on 192. Going West on 192 from WDW you
    would first come to the commercial area with hotels/gift shops at
    WDW boundary, then about 2 miles west of that the Publix should
    be on your right just before getting to Orange Lake Country Club
    the large time share. This would be easier to get to than
    the Publix on 192 East. We always went to the Publix East, we
    quit going to Goodings, not as good as Publix. But Goodings
    should be fine also. 
    
    Please note I do not have any confirmation that it is done but I
    believe it should be. If anyone knows then they can update this.
    If someone is down there then they could take the short drive
    west and see if it is there, it would be just before Orange Lake
    if done. I will probably not make it back down to the area before
    April 96.
    
    				Harold
    
                        

    Heres a first timer question.
    
    I have relatives who stay in Florida and I have heard that a "four
    seasons pass" is available at a considerable discount.
    
    Can it be purchased on my behalf by my uncle? and can I use it?
    
    I also put a previous note in asking if anyone has stayed at the 
    Howard Johnson Park Square as I have made a reservation there.
    
    Any help/comments appreciated.
    
    Thanks,
    
    G.

    I think the Four Season Pass is ONLY for Florida residents and
    you may have to show proof of residency (driver's license) to
    get one.
    
    That's my guess.
    
    Mike

    Help!!!!
      My wife, son and I are trying to plan a trip to WDW during the first
    or second weeks of March 96. I have planned many a trip to various parts
    of the world before, but this is our first time going to Disney world. And
    I am lost big time! We have books, maps, this notes file, WWW, internet
    travels agents, tons of info and we are overloaded. Too much data! 
    
      So I thought it was time to ask questions in the best place I know.
    Digital Notes files ;-). I am looking for ideas, recommendations
    anything that will help us along.
    
    Goals: 
    - Spend seven days WDW in March 96
    - Having never been, we plan on staying at WDW the whole time so we
      have time to see what we want.
    - We are not the type to "run the gauntlet" to see every attraction,
      eat at every resturant or ride every ride.
    - Our son will be almost 4 when we go. So we would expect a typical day
      to be, leave early, come back to the room in the afternoon so he can
      nap, and go out again either late afternoon or early evening.
    - We are planning 2 days at Epcot, 1 day at MGM and 2 days at the
      Kingdom and 1 day free to play golf. This is obviously subject to the
      appoval of our son ;-)
    - We have 2 frequent flyers on United. Who don't go directly to Orlando
      from what I hear but we need to save some money.
    - Have fun.
    
    What have we concluded so far:
    - This is much more expensive that I thought. 
    - Given our goals, it seems to make sense to stay within WDW if possible.
    - We want to keep the cost under 3K, figuring we still need to buy a
      plane ticket for our son.
    - Our first choice is Fort Wilderness or Polynesian.
    - Our second choices, because of cost, are Port Orleans, Caribbean,
      Dixie landings.
    - My in-laws, whom I love by the way ;-), may join us.
    
    Some questions:
    - Are we out to lunch thinking we can do this for 3K including food,
      lodging, transportation etc.?? 
    - Do we need to rent a car if we stay at Port Orleans, Caribbean or
      Dixie?
    - Has anyone stayed at these resorts? Did you like them?
    - The hopper passes include stuff we do not plan on using. canoes,
      horses etc. Would we be better with single day passes? Is there such
      a thing? Everything seems to be a package.
    - Can anyone recommend a travel agent in the Hudson/Worcester area whom
      they use that knows all the package deals, discounts, in ands outs?
    - Or are we better doing it ourselves and use the Magic Kingdom
      discount card?
    - We keep getting conflicting info from travel agents. Is WDW travel
      agent better?
    - Given our goals, what would you recommend? Ideas?
    
    
    
    I know these are a lot of questions and I appologize up front. I have
    read all the trip reports here and any related notes and they have been
    helpful. 
    
    Thanks again for any help
    
    Joel
     
       

    
    
    Somewhere around here, Mike Scopa has an excellent planning note that 
    you would benefit from reading.  If only I could find it, I want to
    review where I am with my plans for Dec against it.  Mike, a pointer?
    
    Staying on property is a plus, I'm glad you noticed it.
    the cheaper rooms will be Caribbean and All Star Resorts.
    
    You don't really need a car if you stay on property.  Many people don't
    like the bus system, but it does get you around.  I like it from the
    standpoint that I don't want to drive on my vacation.  Let someone
    else drive me.
    
    I think you are confussing the park hopper passes with Be Our Guest
    Passes [BOG]  I recomend park Hopper passes as they give you
    flexability.
    
    With a four year old, it would be nice to go back to the hotel room for
    a rest in mid afternoon.  advantage staying on property.
    We also rotate one day touring, one day rest.
    
    there are some nice planning videos, and books, call Disney to get
    them.  Travel agents are not likely to be your best planners for Disney
    as they don't get a cut of the action, so they aren't too interested in
    planning the trip for you.
    
    There are ways to keep the price down.  We have brown bagged into the
    parks before.  For a familty of six, this is a big savings.  You could
    at least bring fruit to nibble on and just have one meal in park.
    
    you can buy breakfast outside the park or pack ceral to have in room.
    
    You'll hear otherwize, but for your first trip. DON'T BUY THE OFFICIAL
    BOOK/BIBLE.  Spoils the magic of discovery.  Don't try to see
    everything, gee, we've been there countless times and haven't seen
    everything yet.
    
    $3K, ya you can do it.  watch out for those extras like Disney
    developing your film for you.  expensive.   watch those gifts, instant
    purchases.  don't get a car that you won't drive.
    
    have fun!
    ed
    

    My family and I have been to Disney many (7) times. Your layback style
    of see what you and enjoy what you see is exactly right. There is much
    to see and do and trying to see it al or drive yourselves too hard will
    spoil what should be a great vacation. We have stayed at the
    Polynesian, Beach Club Resort, Caribean resort and Dixie Landings. Our
    favorite is the Polynesian since it is right on the monorail and it is
    a very nice facility but expensive. The Beach Club is nice but again
    rather expensive.
    
    The less expensive Disney resorts such as the Caribean Beach and Dixie
    Landings we believe are a better value. We stayed at the Polynesian
    during our early visits. At that time, most of the activities were
    Magic Kingdom and Epcot. The monorail was fun and convenient. Now there
    are many other attractions which are not serviced by the monorail such
    as MGM, Blizard beach, etc. so you will find you need to use the bus
    system anyway.
    
    We have found that selecting a package through the Magic Kingdom Club
    works well. The package which includes room and park passes with 1
    character breakfast and use of NON-powered watercraft, bicycles, etc.
    provides the best value. Dixie Landings is our favorite family resort.
    Rooms are comfortable, beautiful grounds, good food court and easy
    access to transportation (bus) system.
    
    However you do it, I am sure you will have a great vacation. See what
    you can and don't worry about what you missed. There is always next
    time. 
    
    

    Back again. For some reason, I have been unable to get back into this
    notes conference till now. Thanks for your help and to those who sent
    me mail. We have at least made some decisions. 
    
      - Staying at the Dixie Landings. Seems to be a good relative value
        and still on the property.
      - Five day hopper pass
      - Will rent car. The cost of the rental is not much more than the
        cost of the transfers. We also like the idea of being able to go
        off property to eat and shop.
      - The cost of this package, including airfare, is around $2400.00
        including all taxes. The Magic Kingdom prices are comimg out this
        week so we are waiting to see them before we confirm. 
    
    That leaves us around $600 for food to meet the goal of 3K. I think we
    may run a little over, but I use the +/- 10% rule ;-) Pretty convient
    huh.
    
    I read Mike's trip report. Lot's of good info. Seems to have it down to
    a science. I think we are planning something a little less hectic.
    
    Joel

    Here's a few questions for you. We want to go to Disney, but really are not
    amusement park people. I took my kids to Canobe and Whalom and my son,
    9, takes one look at the rides and won't go on. The last time I took
    him to Whalom, he went on the bumper cars and stock cars.  My friends
    have told me that Disney isn't like an amusement park and not to
    worry.
    
    My second concern is food. My husband and daughter are picky eaters,
    and I hate to spend money and see the food returned to the kitchen. Are
    there places to eat for people like them?
    
    I am hoping to go to Disney next Fall. I was thinking of October, but
    after this year's hurrican season, I am beginning to wonder if another
    time of year is best.
    
    Thanks
    

    WDW is a vacation resort filled with theme parks and other attractions.
    The theme parks have attractions a few of which can be described as
    "rides". I think it would be a good idea for you to get a hold of a WDW
    Vacation Planner video and study it very carefully.
    
    There is no way you can compare it to Canobie Lake or Whalom Park.
    
    As far as food goes you have a lot of flexibility. You can do fast food
    or you can do sit down meals.

    
    This is one of the very few times I'd ever recomend getting 'the bible'
    read it.
    
    WDW is NOT for everyone.  If there is a chance that your family could
    get caught up in the 'i don't want toos' rather than be in the explore
    mode, you might be wasting your money.  My old boss came back from WDW
    after having a simply miserable time.
    if one goes there looking for fun and excitment, they will have a great
    time.   If one goes there looking for misery, grumpy people, poor food,
    rude cast members, orange t-shirts, etc, you'll find them.  a number of
    people [myself included] talk about those 'unpleasent things' only as a
    way of warning that they are out there and possible ways to overcome
    them.
    
    come to think of it, read over a few trip reports and see if what the
    people are talking about turn you on.  You *can* have fun in the middle
    of a huricane at WDW.  You certainly can have fun in the rain.
    take lines for example.  You have to wait in line.  you don;t like
    lines, you go on a rainy day.  you pick off-season.   I don't mind
    lines.  Of course I wa conditioned when I went the year it opened and
    the lines were 3-5 hours for any attraction.  Today they don't seem
    like much.
    you can't really compare food.   some people think the ribs at HDD are
    greesey, food is poor.  Others [myself included] like the food at HDD.
    You can always brown bag your food.  our family has put food in a
    packpack and stored in a locker as a means of saving some money.  some
    of the funnyer moments have been because of this.  One day we sat down
    at the rail station to eat our lunch and chip and Dale sat with us
    watching us eat.  Of course we became the attraction.  You know they
    hamed it up and everyone was having fun.
    ed
    

    Ed brings up a good point.
    
    The attitude that your family brings with them goes a long way towards
    influencing the outcome of your trip.
    
    First-timers approach trips to WDW much differently than returnees. 
    
    This conference speels out MANY TIMES that you CANNOT approach your
    first trip to WDW with the attitude that you are going to do and see
    everything. You just can't.
    
    You need to determine how much time you will have down there and how to
    make the most of this time to make your trip as enjoyable as possible.
    
    Yes it will be expensive and yes there will probably be crowds and yes 
    there will be some things that you won't like...these are all givens.
    
    Like Ed said...you need to approach your trip in a positive manner. You
    need to assume you're going to have a great time and approach
    everything in a positive manner.
    
    If you go thinking, "Oh man I hate long lines" or "This is costing me
    an arm and a leg" then you SHOULN'T GO.
    
    The trip reports are here to help guide you in your plans and to inform
    you of certain aspects of WDW that you should know. But they are not
    intended to turn you off or put you in a guarded position in your
    approach to the trip.
    
    The folks at WDW want your money and they know they have to please you
    and make you happy so that you will want to return. Approach the trip
    in a positive manner and you'll have a good time.
    
    Everyone in the world is a picky eater but there's a wide assortment of
    food down there. Be sure and do some research beforehand and you won't
    experience any waste.
    
    Do your homework before you go.
    
    Mike 

You're getting a lot of opinions, I know, but let me offer some more...

>    takes one look at the rides and won't go on. The last time I took
>    him to Whalom, he went on the bumper cars and stock cars.  My friends
>    have told me that Disney isn't like an amusement park and not to worry.

Although I agree Disney isn't for everyone, There really is something for
everyone.  There are far more non-ride than ride attractions overall.  Even
those that are "rides" are slow-moving trams that take you through the
attractions.  Your son, I'll bet, will love EPCOT and most of MGM and the
Magic Kingdom.  Get the Birnbaum guide to Walt Disney World to get a complete
understanding of the attractions and which have a lot of motion or are too
scary.
    
>    My second concern is food. My husband and daughter are picky eaters,
>    and I hate to spend money and see the food returned to the kitchen. Are
>    there places to eat for people like them?
    
Food...that's almost what I go to WDW for these days.  Nowhere on Earth
can you find such a wide range of food choices.  Fast foods are typical
burger/pizza/pasta places, but there is a huge number of sit-down places
that start from cafeterias and go up to top-notch.  If you have a car, 
there are hundreds more restaurants within 10 minutes of WDW.  I'm a picky
eater too... don't be shy about checking out the food before sitting down.
Disney has done a lot in the last two years to offer more healthy eating
choices, too.  Parks have fresh fruit stands, and better choices on the
menus.

>    I am hoping to go to Disney next Fall. I was thinking of October, but
>    after this year's hurrican season, I am beginning to wonder if another
>    time of year is best.
    
Remember that this year has been extraordinary for hurricane and tropical
storm activity.  I go to Disney almost once a year, and almost always in
the fall.  Orlando is far enough inland that catastrophic damage is very
unlikely.  The worst (see other notes in here somewhere) is that you will
spend a night in howling wind and driving rain, and maybe power outages.
Just in case, always know what the cancellation policies are, and if you 
buy a package, get the trip interruption insurance that covers cancellation
fees.  Fall really is the best time of year for Disney if you want to explore
without crowds and long lines.  Make sure there is no special event at
the time you are going as they like to schedule more and more of them in the
fall to bring people in.  

The down side to the fall:  Parks open later, (usually 9am) and close earlier
(6 or 7pm, EPCOT 9pm), and so only EPCOT has a nightime fireworks show. Of
course, that gives you more time to eat!

Bill A

    Bill is right when he says that Fall is probably a good time to go if
    you want the best chance to avoid crowds.
    
    Keep in mind that if everyone went at the same "off peak" season then
    the lines and crowds would still be there. I have a friend who visited
    WDW the last week in March and a friend who went just last week. 
    
    In both cases they returned to tell me that the lines were huge and
    that the crowds were unbelievable.
    
    I'm not sure if there is an off season anymore.
    
    I'm telling you this because lately when it comes to hit or miss with
    the crowds you can't rely on past history.
    
    Mike

    plus crowd size is in the mind of the observer.  one man's huge can be
    another's small.   Disney tends to adjust the inflow of the attractions
    for a particular line size; more people, more gates, less, less.
    if the line size gets too small, you loose half the fun of the ride by
    missing the pre-shows, line work ups.
    ed
    

RE: Line Size

	My Brother in-law went to MK last week Oct 3 & 4 
(Tuesday/Wednesday) for the 1st time. He came back 
complaining about long lines. But when ask how long the 
wait was .... "Oh one took a real long time, about 15 
minutes".  'Tis in the eye of the beholder. 

    Thanks for the confirmation that there is something for everyone. Right
    now, our ideas are to stay on the park and stay for 7 days. I also
    realize that we can't see everything, and like the idea of seeing
    attractions for a few hours, resting for a few hours, and so on. 
    
    I guess what worried me is to hear about the Tower of Terror and other
    such rides.  I began to think that we'd go down and find out that all
    the rides were to fast, too spinning, too.... 
    
    I'll prepare the family for the lines, although I don't think this will
    be a problem as they've had to wait in lines plenty of times, and
    remember this is Disney and I am sure there is plenty of other
    distractions while they are in line.
    
    Thanks for the help.
    Fran
    

    I made reservations for the CBR and received my reservation information
    with the "bill part" requesting payment for one night which I sent in. 
    I know they've cashed my check but I haven't received any other
    information.  Is this correct?  If so, how do you send in additional
    payments?  Just put the reservation number of the check?
    
    Also, I have a reservation number for the Hoop-de-doo but it didn't
    appear on the hotel reservation information sheet.  Should it have been
    on it?
    
    Thanks,
    Karen

Karen,

Every time the CRO creates or modifies a reservation a new copy should
be mailed to you.  This includes processing each payment.  If I understand
correctly, your deposit was sent and "crossed in the mail" with the first
reservation statement.  You should get another soon indicating your
deposit and the remaining amount due.  Each statement has a tear off
for sending in a payment.  Use it to be sure payments get credited 
correctly.  If you don't get a new statement within two weeks of sending it,
call them again and ask if they received payment and to send an updated 
statement.

DInner show reservations do not appear on hotel reservation statements.
Keep a careful record of the date you made the reservation, and the 
confirmation number.  Pick up your tickets at your hotel's guest services
desk when you arrive.

Bill A.

    Thanks for the information Bill.
    
    Since it was at least a month ago that my check cleared, I just 
    called and was told that they did receive my check but that they 
    don't usually send out statements and that if I wanted to send in
    additional payments to just write my reservation number of the
    check.  That doesn't give me the warm fuzzies!
    
    Do you think their policy has just changed? (of course I should 
    have asked!).  Or should I try again?  I certainly trust the experts
    here in this notes file over some unknown cast member!
    
    Thanks again,
    Karen 

That's very bizarre.  We've received updated statements every time on
our last 3 trips.

Bill

    Be careful and call often.  I have a reservation at The Wilderness Lodge 
    for then end of Nov.  I received a bill requesting the deposit and I
    sent it back with the payment.  A week later I received a confirmation
    stating they had received my payment.  A week after that I received a
    notice stating that had CANCELLED my reservation!
    
    I called and they had no idea why the reservation had been cancelled
    (they tried to blame it on the mail room saying that they probably
    didn't get it up to reservations in time, but since I had the
    confirmation that didn't hold up).  So, I had to have them rebook the
    room and requested a confirmation letter (which I did get).
    
    If you are going to send in another payment, I'd call a week later and
    verify that they've received it and request a confirmation letter
    (which they told me they do automatically).
    
    /Susan

    Not so bizarre.  The only time I received an updated statement
    was when I changed my length of stay or hotel.  I did not receive
    an updated statement for payment.  (I went this past August.)
     
    

    Thanks for all the replies.  I think I will mail another check and call
    a week later to make sure they got it.  This time I'll probably get a
    statement back!
    
    Thanks,
    Karen

    We are planning our trip for Mid-May and would like to stay at the
    Polynesian due to the fact that we have two small children and have
    heard that being on the monarail is a must.  Is there a section of the
    Polynesian to ask for that is actually the closet to the monarail?
    
    We have also been told to only attempt MK because of the kids' ages (3
    and 1) and the short time (2-3 days) any comments?????
    
    Character breakfasts, any suggestions???
    
    Any advice is greatly appreciated.

    
    We took 3 trips while our children were very youn:
     first trip - almost one, almost two
     second trip - a2,3
     third trip - 3,4
    
    We stayed at Fort Wilderness in a mobile home.  The kids loved Fort
    Wilderness.  We didn't limit ourselves to the Magic Kingdom.  As I
    recall 2 of my son's all time favorites were in EPCOT- The living
    Seas and imagination.  They also liked The little Mermaid and the
    Honey I shrunk thee kids playground at the studios.
    
    It has been more than 2 years since our last trip.  My youngest child
    doesn't really remember ever having gone.  The pictures help to "prove"
    that she has been there.
    
    We also only spent 3 days at Disney - the rest was with family.
    
    ELIabeth

I've taken the liberty to copy your notes from topic #471 (Sign-in) here,
so I can try to answer a few more of your questions...

>    WHERE:WE THINK THE POLYNESIAN, STILL TRYING TO DECIDE
>    WHY:  MY DAUGHTER ASKED US TO PLEASE TAKE HER WHERE CINDERELLA LIVES
>    I have been reading in this note file for a week now, and the more I
>    read the more confused I get. Not to mention the advice from everyone
>    and their mother.  Some tell us we are crazy for going with the kids
>    being so young others say "just go".  Since the kids are so young, we
>    are only spending probably 2-3 days in WDW. 

Any child who asks to "Please take her where Cinderella lives" is ready!
I think the key to travelling WDW with kids is to pace yourselves.  Get
an early start, then back to the room for a nap.  Return for a few hours in
the afternoon, and then find a quiet place for dinner.  If the kids still
have energy, take a swim or walk to bleed off the excess energy and then
they're ready for bed and another early start.

>    We were thinking of just
>    seeing MK and maybe MGM depending on the kids.  From the brochures I've
>    seen so far, you can get a package that contains everything or nothing,
>    being that we are only considering 1 maybe 2 parks, we thought the
>    package with nothing would be best, and then buy single day passes. 
>    Any suggestions????????

A package with length-of-stay passes is not a bargain, at best it's 
similar to buying your own passes, but it's very convenient if you're
staying for a solid block of days at a Disney resort.  You would be able
to go to each park and hit the highlights of each, or change parks to
avoid crowds on any day.  Single day passes cost quite a lot compared to
the multi-day passes.

>    Looking for information regarding MK hopper passes for 2 days, is there 
>    such thing, I have been told these have to be purchased at the park.
There are only 1 day, 4 day, 5 day, and length-of-stay passes.  The 1 day
is for a single park.  The four day is for one day in each of the three
parks, plus a day in a park of your choice.  The 5 day and length-of-stay
passes allow you to move among the parks on the days you use them.


>    Do they rent double strollers?
I don't think so...I haven't ever seen one....but call the CRO and ask.

Every family's experience is a little different -- it depends on your
pace, the kids stamina, the crowds, the weather, and what each person
appreciates the most.

Clearly, the Magic Kingdom is what to plan around... since that's where
Cinderella lives.  but, there are a lot of things in there that many of
us would recommend you skip in favor of other parks. For example, I would
recommend you skip Tiki Birds, Swiss Family Treehouse, 20,000 Leagues,
and so on.  Many will not permit the 1-year old so you must do the "baby
swap" and take turns riding (ask a castmember at the entrance how to do 
this.)  Many rides may be too scary -- such as Splash Mountain, Alien
Encounter, Haunted Mansion, Space Mountain, or even Pirates of the Caribbean.

In other parks there are several great attractions for kids if you take a
little time to find them.  In EPCOT, all three parts of Imagination are
made for kids.  The living seas, Universe of Energy (dinosaurs), Cranium
Command in the "Life" pavilion, and the 9pm IllumiNations show.

In MGM kids should enjoy Muppetvision 4d and Voyage of the Little Mermaid 
(if you can avoid a really long line).

Have fun planning...
Bill A.

    From my Delta Dream Vacation package notes (yes, I know I haven't
    logged on in note 471 yet!):
    
        CHARACTER BREAKFAST LOCATIONS [call 800-W-DISNEY]
    
        ..."Once Upon A Time" at the Magic Kingdon
        Cinderella's Castle
        King Stefan's Banquet Hall
        Cinderella and Friends
        8:00 a.m. - 10:00 a.m. [Sun., Tu-Wed & Fri?]
        7:30 a.m. - 10:00 a.m. Monday, Thursday and Saturday
        Reservations required up to seven days in advance; same-day reser-
        vations not accepted.
    
    No prices listed here because it's included in my DL vacation package
    (sorry; wish I'd brought in my Birnbaum '96).  King Stefan's Banquet
    Hall is *in* Cinderella's castle!
    
    Leslie 

    
    
    
    We're planning a big family trip April 7-19.  Althought my 
    husband and I have been together, this is our first time with
    our children - ages 10, 8, and almost 3.
    
    Not exactly "first-timers", but almost, I'm hoping the you more
    experienced noters will be able to answer the following questions:
    
    How long a drive is it to an "ocean" beach?  Any recommendations for
    a good beach?
    
    Is it a better deal to buy our 5-day Hopper passes at AAA or the 
    Disney Store with the MK Card?
    
    I assume that there is no charge for children under 3 - true?
    
    What about seniors?  My mother is 67 - do they offer any discount?
    
    How long a drive is it to the Kennedy Space Center?
    
    How far in advance are reservations accepted for the HDD and Polynesian
    for folks staying off the property?
    
    Thanks for all of your help.

    I haven't been *west* to the "ocean" (Gulf), but it's a one-hour drive,
    due east, to the Atlantic.  You take the Beeline, which is a good (if
    straight and BORING!) highway, and it dumps you at the "space coast",
    Cape Canaveral (NASA).  Good signs, you won't get lost.  I know there
    are public beaches in Cocoa Beach (just south of Cape Canaveral) but
    will leave it to the more experienced to name and rate them.
    
    Leslie

    Buy at the Disney store with the MKC card. 
    
      I checked it out 2 weeks ago. AAA wants $190 per person for the 5 day
    hopper ( not sure if tax is included)and the Disney store quoted me at
    $187 for adults and ~$140 for kids under 12 including tax with the MKC
    card. 
    
     We just booked fOR March 24th - the 28th at Dixie Landings.
    
                     Tom Z.

    Another question regarding where/when to get the passes issued - my
    travel agent told me it's best to wait until you get to WDW to get your
    passes, provided you don't want to go right into a park the moment you
    get there.  She said they might be running specials that you would not
    be able to take advantage of if you had bought them earlier.
    
    We will arrive at 3:00 PM, and don't intend to go to TMK until the next
    morning, so we plan to get our passes that afternoon at our hotel. 
    Does this make sense?
    
    Julie

    I don't think so. Places like Universal Studios and Sea World may offer
    specials from time to time but Disney has it's basic package of
    admission media options and that's that.
    
    If anything I'd purchase the passes ASAP because you freeze the price.
    I always purchase my tickets (AP's) as soon as I make my reservation.
    
    By the way...price hikes usually happen in the Spring (April/May) so 
    if you can purchase them now...do so.
    
    Mike

    Mike's right.  Except for Florida residents when they offer specials
    on off peak periods.  Your travel agent needs to be plugged into this
    notesfile or the web!

    I think the travel agent I used as a bit ditzy anyway!  Since I am
    leaving tomorrow, I will get the passes at the hotel when we check in.
    
    Thanks for the info, will keep it in mind for the NEXT trip.
    
    Julie

    My sister is taking my sons (ages 4 and 7) at the end of March, for 4
    days. They're thinking of 2 days at Disney and 1 day at Sea World.
    
    How does one get the video tape of WDW to preview and plan what to
    see/do?
    
    thanks,
    Lynn
    

    Lynn,
    
    I have an 800 number at home.  I saw an ad on TV during the week about
    calling the 800 number and getting a free Disney Vacation Planner
    video.  I'll try remember to get it tonight.
    
    Karen
    

    Lynn,
    
    The number I have is 800-819-4545.
    
    Karen
    

    My 3 children and I went to King Stefans Char Breakfast last summer. 
    My then 5 year old is princess crazy, and all of us enjoyed the
    breakfast.  It was the best character experience we had--all the
    princesses sat down with us, took pictures, signed...Peter Pan and
    Wendy were there, too.  It is a dining area, so you do not see the
    rooms other than the banquet hall.  (My youngest had thought we'd see
    rooms just like in the movie).  The breakfast was also good--plenty of
    food, including bacon, sausage, eggs, waffles, danish, oj.  We did this
    the first morning and it was an excellent start to our adventure.  The
    pricing was based on age, and it seems to me that it was about $75.
 I think that you could only make reservations 7 days in advance, which I
    did, and other than No Shows (wait on line and see), there were no
    reservations available on the actual day.  Mickey and Minnie were not
    there.

    Hi,
    
    I leave for Disney on the 12th April for two weeks and one week
    in Clearwater.
    
    My children are aged 6 and 4 and I would appreciate any tips at
    all which would make my stay as enjoyable as possible as this is 
    our first time. Up until now I have not purchased any passes as I
    am undecided as to buy them here in the U.K. or when I get to
    Florida. I am booked to stay in the Lake Buena Vista area (H.J.
    Park Sq Inn).
    
    Thanks  Gordon.
    
    Thanks  Gordon.
    
    Thanks Gordon.

    Gordon,
    
    Curl up one evening with a bunch of trip reports...that should give you
    plenty of ideas.
    
    Mike

    Gee, wiz, Gorden, travelling all that distance and not staying on
    property.  You might have found it a lot more pleasurable to stay
    on proplerty.  There's so much you can do as a resort guest that just
    can't be done if staying off site.
    
    ed
    

    Ed,
    
    Thanks.
    
    The bottom line is that I can go for 3 weeks and get a week on the
    beach for less than the cost of staying on property for 2 weeks.
    

    that's what I thought on my last vacation.  the time I spent off
    property cost jsut as much IF NOT MORE, than staying at ASM.
    I knew the value before I did what I did, tried to pinch pennies,
    but made a serious mistake.  The 'bargin hotels' end up as costly and
    offer less.
    the motel is no place to start pennie pinching, but if it were, 2 weeks
    would be better than 0 weeks of fun that could hnave been had by being
    at a safe, clean, quality place.
    you should at least do one week on to see what you are missing.
    
    Disney food is another story, and we ate off property a lot.
    
    ed
    

    I concur with Ed.   I find if I divide my time off property, ie the day
    before and after my package at a WDW resorts I am able to enjoy and
    do both.  Save a little money, but also enjoy the benefits of the 
    on-site resort.  Also, with children I found it easier to be on-site 
    when wanting to take a afternoonbreak.  I am staying at the
    All-Star Music/Sports before switching to Dixie Landing, since ASM
    is only $10.00 more than the Comfort Inn off site.  The would have been
    the same price but I was unable to get a MKC discount, or the $69.00
    rooms.  They only had $79.00 rooms available at ASM.  You might be
    experiencing higher rates since you will be down in April during the
    US school's spring break.
    
      

Do you need to use your MKC discount when you book your room?  Or do you
just flash your MKC card when you get there and automatically get the
discount?

- Lori

    You need to use your MKC discount when you book your room.  I have a
    reservation at Dixie Landing for August with my MKC card.  I made it
    this past October.  A couple of weeks ago, I tried to switch to the 
    Carribean and/or Wilderness Lodge, I could have a room but I would
    not get the MKC discount.  The Cast Memeber explained to me that
    they only allow so many rooms per resort to MKC.  She explained that
    I can keep calling back and see if someone has cancelled.  

    I have gotten some good ideas on where to eat for character breakfasts
    and dinners, but what about other "good" restaurants?  We do have 2
    small children so nothing too fancy.

    I loved Mama Melrose's at MGM.  I found them to be very
    family-oriented.  We were on our honeymoon at the time, but are
    planning on travelling to WDW with our 2 year old in October and will
    definitely go back to Mama Melrose's.  The food is excellent, prices
    are reasonable for WDW, staff is VERY friendly, and the service was
    great.  They serve Italian food:  pasta, some very interesting pizzas,
    and yummy desserts.  
    
    The restaurant in Germany at Epcot is also a good place to bring kids. 
    It is a very boisterous environment.  We joined a couple with a young
    child for lunch and we all had a wonderful time eating our
    wienerschnitzel and spetzle and enjoying the show.  My husband is German 
    and vouched for the good food, although he wasn't overly impressed with 
    their black forest cake (I don't dare try to spell that in German).  
    
    The restaurant is Mexico is a little dark, but also fairly noisy and
    interesting.  If you get a seat near the lobby, you can usually listen
    to a mariachi band and people watch.  A seat near the ride offers views
    of the water and landscape, and ofcourse you can watch the boats go by.
    The food was very good as I recall.
    
    Kristen
    

There are many "fast food" type restaurants all over WDW.
These are all great for kids.

If you want a sit-down type of meal here are some that we have
enjoyed with our kids:

I am not sure of the proper names...

Epcot	Living Seas - the kids will love looking at the fish. 

Epcot   Rotating restaurant at "The Land" although I have seen
	some negatives about this lately.

Epcot	Italy

MGM	Sci Fi 

WDW	Tony's

WDW	Crystal Palace - cafeteria style

Doug

    What about the various resorts on site, any of the restaurants worth
    eating at?

    We've eaten dinner at Carribian and Polynesian, both restaurants were
    excellent.  From what I've heard from friends, you can't go wrong
    dining in any one of the Resorts' restaurants, however, you can go
    broke  :-)  Most are on the expensive side.

    I agree. The food served at most of the resorts is very good, but
    generaly it isn't inexpensive. Some of the resorts have multiple
    restaraunts that are set up for a casual "eat and run" and others or
    more toward the sit down and be waited on type.
    
    I'm on a role with visiting WDW, having been there every year for the
    last ten years and went twice one year, lucky me. 
    
    If you note where you are staying, this might help you out with better
    suggestions, ie. easier access, comfort, etc. Are you staying at a
    resort or a location away from the theme parks? etc.
    
    One thing I have noted that after traveling around WDW, the family can
    get a bit tired, cranky, and a little weary of the crowds, so you don't 
    want to make getting food any more difficult that it is.

    We are staying at the Polynesian.  One meal we have planned is the
    character breakfast at the Grand Floridian. As I understand Mary
    Poppins appears and my daughter is one of her biggest fans.  Any other
    suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
    
    Thanks in advance.

RE: .385

As far as food and atmosphere, I think that the character 
breakfast at Artist Point (Wilderness Lodge) is pretty good;
although, the characters themselves were boring
(mostly Chip&Dale).  We thought that Minie's Poly-Lua
Breakfast was ok too.  The evening LUA was a disaster as far
as food and cost$$$$$

    
    We did the Minie's poly-lua and Aladen/Pocohantis one at MGM for
    breakfast ones and though both were good.  The one at MGM has Gov.
    Radcliff, Genie, Meko, Jafar and Pocohantis is a suprize one after
    you are done eating behind a curtain. We also did Chef Mickeys dinner
    one. This one was just ok you see Mickey, Goofy, Chip and Dale. Food
    was ok but they screwed up. I called and requested a birthday cake
    for my wife. (taught my wife and son would be excited) Then came out
    with a piece of carrot cake.  I did talk to the manager as we were 
    leaving and he was sorry about the misunderstanding and was willing 
    to go back and make up a cake for my wife. We said no thank you and
    I was satisfied with his explaination..
    
      Cost for the two breakfasts were about $40 each, for the 3 of us.
      Dinner cost ~$45 for the 3 of us.
    
            Tom Z

Well when I was down there last month (3/17 to be exact) we did the Character
breakfast at the Grand Floridian and it was very good. The food served buffet
style had numerous choices. Bacon, Sausages, Eggs, Waffles, Quiche, Blintzes,
Pancakes and a few other different entries. Serveral different types of breads
and muffins for toasting and a large fruit bar. Mary Poppins was there mostly
in the hall outside the dining area signing autographs and posing for pictures.
If you can and the weather is agreeable I would suggest asking Mary to step
outside the doors into the courtyard for pictures as the courtyard was beautiful
and offers a nice backdrop for pictures. Inside during the breakfast my children
got to meet, get autographs and take pictures with Pluto, Minnie, Goofy and
Chip and Dale. The price was 14.95 for adults and 9.95 for children. Because of
the quality and quanity of the food and the characters I thought that this was
the best character breakfast they offered. The other family that we were with
also did the character breakfast at the Poloynesian and felt that it paled in
comparision. I can't remember exactly who the characters were but there were
few characters and the brekfast was a skillet style breakfast with limited
choices and getting seconds was a real pain in the butt they said. At the
Grand Floridian you just help yourself to as much as you want.

mike

Re: 388

I agree with Mike's assessment of the Character breakfast at the Grand
Floridian, but we did one thing that I thought turned out pretty good.
We got up early; had a light breakfast at our hotel (CBR); hit TMK,
and then went to one of the last sittings (11:??).  This way we treated
the buffet as an early lunch rather than a breakfast.  This worked well
because there was so much food and my son is not a morning eater.

Also, concerning the Poly-Lua breakfast - Mini did make her presence
available, but your right about the seconds - their attitude was that
can could eat as much as you want "but you're really making a pig of
yourself and causing a lot of extra work for me".

    Hi,  first timer here with a few questions:
    
    My son (18) just joined the Navy and is in Orlando at the Navy
    Training Center.  His girlfriend (here in Oregon) says she needs
    to see him in July and that I and my daughter (15) need to go
    with her.
    
    Ok, I read a lot of the notes in here.  I have the MK Club card
    in the mail to me and I made a reservation.  Last minute of course
    for Disney World, but I figure you can't go to Orlando and not
    see DW.  Also lucked out on the airfare at $298 ea.
    
    We ended up at the Courtyard by Marriott in Disney Village for
    $119/night.  Any comments about this hotel.  I was told it
    was close...buses run every 20 min.
    
    Are "outsiders" allowed to visit the Poly or Grand Floridian?
    Can we use monorail and ferries that have been mentioned?
    I think I will get a packet of info soon, but want to ask
    the experts.
    
    Also, I think my son is going to ask his girlfriend to marry
    him on the 4th of July at DW.  Any good places?  ie romantic?
    Any thoughts?
    
    Oh, we are staying part of the time close to base.  We will be
    at the Marriott on July 4,5,6.  That will give us 4 days.
    We have a car, so we could drive down for more days if needed.
    I may get a 5 day hopper.  Any thing special at DW on the 4th?
    
    I think MGM, Epcot and the beaches will be our favorites.
    
    Can we carry ice water onto the rides/attractions?  The heat
    will be hard for an Oregonian.  I won't even think about the
    crowds.  I want to see my son, as long as we are standing
    in line together some of the time, I will be content.
    
    Thanks for your advice/thoughts, Roberta
    

 Not an expert as March was my first time down there also but I do know that
 you can visit the Grand Floridian and Poly for breakfast, lunch or             
 supper/dinner and for any special shows they might have. You can use the
 monorails. You can have drinks and food with you in lines etc. You can use     
                          
 backpacks or gym bags to carry the food and water and most rides have places
 to store them. Generally under your seat. I would guess right in front of
 Cinderella's castle in the Mgic Kingdom would qualify as romantic. Although
 he might want to consider going to one of the countries in Epcot and proposing
 as well. Some beautiful backdrops in Epcot.

 mike

    Your son might have qualified for Shades of Green at DW.  That's
    reserved for the military.  and that's on WDW.
    Are you staying off property becasue there was no space in a WDW
    hotel???  Even the ASM would cost ~$80/night.  you might have problems
    getting on the resort monorail without a resort pass.
    
    The most romantic spot in WDW?  sounds like a topic all its own.
    I'd venture that the chapel and it's island over near Grand Floridian
    would be a good bet.  Guest services could give you some insight.
    that also didn't sound like too cheap an airfare. I beleive you could
    have done better.
    ed
    
    I think I'd choose the haunted mansion.  I poped the question to my
    wife on Halloween.

I used the resort monorails when I was there without a resort's pass...

mike

    Oh, :-(    That was the best round trip from Portland Oregon
    to Orlando when I called.  Oh well.
    
    Is Shades of Green a place?  What is ASM?
    
    I am having my son check the price of 5 day hopper on base
    and I will compare it to my MKC card discount.
    
    Thanks for the responses!
    

RE last couple:  I don't think $298 from Portland, Oregon to Orlando, 
Florida is bad at all.  It's across the country, after all! :-)  If I 
could get a fare like that from Boston to, for example, Las Vegas or 
Denver, which are not even all the way across the country, I'd be pretty 
happy! ($298 is not be a terribly great fare from *Boston* to Orlando, 
however, but then it's about 1/2 the distance as from Portland to Orlando, 
n'est-ce pas?)

>    Is Shades of Green a place?  What is ASM?

Shades of Green is a resort that used to be called The Disney Inn.
It is sort of near the Grand Floridian and reportedly is nice and
fairly peaceful.  Now it's reserved for use by members of the U.S.
Armed Forces, as Ed said in .392.

ASM = All Star Music resort.

Enjoy!

-- Nina

    I goofed!  Assuming you were from GMA.
    Airfare ok.
    
    I do think you should really reconsider and stay on property.
    Oki Nina, you failed to say what your most romantic place was...
    ed
    
    

    I agree you should have your Son check into Shades of Green.  We
    stayed there 4 times, twice under the name Golf Resort Hotel and
    twice when it was the Disney Inn.  It is near both the Poly and the
    Grand.  The Shuttle bus takes you over to the Poly so you can catch the
    Monorail.  The restaurant was wonderful, I'm sure it still is.

    re: staying at the disney village hotels
    
    We stayed at the Doubletree Suites 2 weeks ago, which is
    right next to the Marriott Courtyard in the village area.
    As was the case 5 years ago, we found the hotel to be
    located in a great area.  Yes, you don't have the disney
    "theme" hotel, but you can typically get a larger room for
    less money than a disney resort, they have disney stores
    in each hotel, and the bus service is very frequent and 
    convenient back and forth to the parks.  About the only
    "negative" is that the transportation to the water parks
    is not the best - leave at like 9:30 am and then at 1:xx
    pm, but only return once at like 5:15pm - so we drove to 
    Blizzard Beach instead.  But the added value to the village
    hotels is that they're VERY close to the disney village
    marketplace, which BTW is the only gift shop that gives
    you a MKC discount.  PLUS it's right across the street from
    the Crossroads Plaza, which has a bunch of restaurants, stores,
    plus a mini-golf place.  During the week we were at Disney,
    the parks closed early, so being near the Crossroads gave
    us something to do after the parks closed down.
    
    andy
    

    Thanks everyone.  I went into the greatest search engine
    in the world! AltaVista (Digital's) and found articles
    on Shades of Green.  I am on the waiting list.
    
    When I called, the lowest price for a room was $240.
    on site.  Too much for my budget.  At the risk of getting
    kicked out of here, we don't have anyone in our party
    looking for a "character".  We just want to "ride and slide".
    
    later... 
    

    Its ok to visit Disney on your vacation, but don't expect to have a
    Disney vacation this way.
    Always plan early.  I still question who you called and why something
    a bit cheaper was not available.  there are Disney numbers aaa numbers
    and MKC numbers.
    Staying on property is more than just characters.  It's Disney.  Things
    that you like in the parks and the 'G'uest theme is in the resort.
    my worst time last vacation was staying in a non-Disney motel. The
    times we were in the resort were the best times.  And I didn't save
    money outside.
    but this can easily get into religious wars ;-)
    ed
    

    No threat of a war with me.  Disney isn't important enough
    in my life to get excited about.  I had called the 407- disney number
    I don't have the MKC card yet.
    
    Thanks everyone! Bye
    

    back to the romantic question.....
    
    I love fireworks....I think one of the most romantic places at disney
    is at the POLY, on the beach watching the fireworks.
    
    Kathi
    
    

    I have a question, although I'm not a first timer... 

    We would like to bring snacks and lunch into the parks (MK,MGM, Epcot)
    is this allowed?  If so would we be able to carry in a soft sided cooler?

    Also, same question regarding the water parks....


    Merci

    David Cormier

    (Trip planed for 5/19 through 5/28)

    

We were there in April and took a collapsible cooler with us to both MGM and
MK to help offset the price of lunches and soft drinks.  We filled it with
sandwiches, chips, and soda and crammed it into a locker until we needed it.

This practice actually provided some of the best entertainment at both parks.
At MGM, we ate on a bench across from the gas station.  It just so happens
that this is right where the cast members enter the park and we were treated
to them getting in character.  Everyone was all dolled up in their forties
costumes and all of them talked to us and/or put on a little skit.  It was
great!

At MK, we went upstairs on the train station balcony to eat and were
rewarded by a constant flow of people in and out of the park.  The people 
watching was fun and we could tell which folks were getting their first
glimpse of the park.

We did this four days with no one saying anything to indicate that we were
doing anything wrong.  We didn't bother at TL, however, since food there
seems to be more reasonably priced.

    officially no, you can't.
    
    I have and do.  I've been seen by many cast members, the only ones
    who have said anything are Chip and Dale, who wanted to picnic with us.
    I think brining real coolers into the parks might be frowned on as it
    would be very obvious.  We generally carry knapsacks.  We freeze the
    soft side drinks, they keep everything else cool.
    always nice to have cold water.
    we take a water bottle and freeze half, then add hslf water.
    ed
    

We froze juice boxes & put then in a small collapsable cooler, then
stowed that away in the lockers (under the train station) in MK.  Made
for an inexpensive midday rest, though we of course had to come back for
them - better than carying them around all day, we had decided.

RE .396 --

>    Oki Nina, you failed to say what your most romantic place was...

I'll let you know after my S.O. and I are there in late August/early
September. :-)

-- Nina

P.S. But, speaking of romantic places at WDW, I recently came across and
bought a book titled "Walt Disney World for Lovers" that
was published last year.  It has some of the most thorough descriptions
of the resorts that I've seen in WDW-related books, in addition, of course,
to info about romantic places at WDW. :-)  I posted a note about it in the
"guidebooks" topic (43).

    
This note contains information on the WDW vacation course offerred by the
Merrimack Adult Education Program.

I am posting this information because some of you have sent me mail, stopped
by my office, or called me for info on this course. You may have friends or
relatives (all non DECcies not having access to this conference) who are
interested in taking such a course.

I do not receive any additional compensation for a large enrollment. My
purpose here is to make this info available to anyone who is interested in
planning a trip and who does not have access to this conference. 

Please note that the course is designed for those who have NEVER visited
WDW, who have not visited WDW within the last several years, or who have
had a frustrated time planning a WDW vacation.

Here is the information you need to know:
    
    
   Course Title:      Planning Your Disney World Vacation
    
   Course Location:   Merrimack Adult Education Program
                      Merrimack High School

   Course Start Date: Wednesday, September 25th

   Course Length:     Seven (7) Weeks. Every Wednesday (7-8:30 P.M.)

   Cost:              $40

   Course Objective:  To inform participants on effective planning techniques
                      for Walt Disney World vacations. This course will cater
                      to personal needs and will be customized to the
                      participants. Emphasis will be on getting the most out
                      of your vacation dollar and vacation time.
    
   Eligibility:       Open to all residents of Merrimack and surrounding
                      communities. You must be 18 years of age or older and
                      not participating in a public day school program.    

   Registration:      Register by mail only before September 13.

                      Brochures were sent out this week. If anyone wants
                      a copy of the registration form send me mail.

   Course Cancellation:
                       Course may be cancelled due to insufficient enrollment.
                       I don't know what the minimum enrollment is for this
                       course but I'm guessing five or 6.

   Course Limit:       20


   Further Info:      For further information you can call Larry Brown,
                      Director of the Merrimack Adult Education Program.
                      His number is 424-6213.


                      This note will be deleted on September 25th.    

Mike,

I got the Merrimack brochure this week.  I mentioned the class to my husband
because we are thinking about a WDW trip for next summer with my step-
children.  He was not too keen on the idea of spending $40.00 to plan
a vacation.  His idea is that you just go.  Can you (or others) give 
some valid reasons as to why this course would be valuable?  

He and I went to WDW once, several years ago, while visiting my sister in 
Florida. I got the flu so wasn't really too with it while we were there and 
don't remember much.  The kids have never been to WDW. They will be 12 and 14
next summer. I'd like to stay at one of the Disney resorts at the park, but
finances are a major consideration for us.

Leslie

    Leslie,
    
    First off the price was set by the Director. I guess he goes over the
    entire program and decides the cost of each course...$40 is one of the
    least expensive courses.
    
    I talked with a lot of people on this and I guess I would take a course
    like this to save myself time, money, or frustration when planning a
    trip.
    
    I would bet that people not privy to this conference and who have never
    been to WDW would be overwhelmed by putting together a vacation plan.
    My purpose is to save people from overspending, underplanning, and
    underestimating all involved with their vacation planning.
    
    We all work real hard and spend very precious time pampering ourselves.
    About 5 years ago I ran into some people who were frustrated from their
    recent trips to Orlando. Complaints such as "too expensive", "too
    confusing", "rushed", and "frustrating" kept echoing from their mouths.
    
    After that when conversing with anyone who mentioned going to Orlando I
    offerred them any advice I could give them. Some of these people had
    gone before but had not had an enjoyable time. I found that even just a
    few tips paid off in savings and overall all enjoyment on their next
    trip. We all have helped each other in here just from our trip reports.
    
    Here's an example. I had a friend who wanted to stay outside the 
    property because he had always done it and it was "less expensive"
    than staying on the property.
    
    I convinced him to take his family and stay at the PO/DL/CBR (I
    forget). They stayed for 7 days. The room was about $5 less than where
    they were staying outside the park....plus they saved ($4 at that time)
    per day parking....that's about a $63 savings. But that's not what he
    raged the most about....he came back and thanked me because of the time
    that they saved by staying on the property....especially when going to
    TMK.
    
    The course is really designed for someone who has never gone or who
    hasn't gone in a long time. If you have access to this conference you
    should be able to get all the info you need. 
    
    Mike 

    If you have access to this notefile, perhaps there is no need.
    But, darn, if I wasn't so busy, I'd be tempted to go and just live
    Disney another night of the week.
    
    If Mike can't save a person several times over what the course cost,
    then they just are not listening.
    ed
    

    'cuze me, but saving money isn't my idea of what a DISNEY course ought
    to offer.  I WANNA HAVE FUN!  For $40 and 7 x 1.5 hours, I expect
    lights, sound, ACTION!
    
    Sure, you need a budget and tips to stay on it, but please don't focus
    entirely on money.  DISNEY doesn't.
    
    Mark

    Mike says get the most out of $$ and time in his discription.
    

    Mark,
    
    The course does not focus just on money. The course objective is to
    prepare the participants to properly plan their vacation so that they
    get the most out of their time and money spent down there.
    
    I will probably spend something like 90 minutes max out of the entire
    course on money.
    
    The rest of the time I'll guide the participants into how to plan their
    time down there and give hints...some of which have come from
    castmembers themselves who will from time to time visit a park as a
    guest.
    
    Actually, I'm looking forward to the very last session. I call it my
    "Top Ten Tips for Making Your Disney World Vacation a Success" These
    are ten catchy phrases that the class participants will learn and
    hopefully use while down there.
    
    Some of these have been discussed in here.
    
    Here's one..."Late lunches/early dinners"
    
    If you do late lunches and /or early dinners you will avoid crowds 
    and (for dinner) avoid that 15% extra for dinner entrees after 6 P.M.
    
    How about "I'd rather be left than right" which discusses
    multi-entrances into attractions. Go to the left.
    
    I'm sure they'll be plenty of times when the course will go off on a
    tangent and we'll just sit and talk...but I'll make sure that all
    discussions will lead to a learning experience for the participants.
    
    If a participant happens to be in TMK on a night for SpectroMagic I
    want them to remember to do attractions like Splash and Big Thunder
    during the 9 P.M. parade and watch the 11 P.M. parade when the crowd
    has thinned out.
    
    How about this one....when riding the Maelstrom in Norway, unless you
    really are into travel films from Norwegian Airlines you want to zip
    right through that room after you have gotten off that boat in the
    small village...a time saver. The first time I saw that film I asked
    myself, "What am I doing here wasting my time?"
    
    I expect that I'll be showing some video footage too.
    
    The one thing I will always be trying to do is to customize the course
    to the needs of the participants. I'll be asking for input at the end
    of each session to help prepare me for the next session.
    
    Heck, I may be talking about dining around the World for the next
    session and someone may ask me to come into the session prepared to
    talk about all the character dinners. That's the key....to offer the
    participants information and advice they need.
    
    I'm looking forward to it....it will be a Disney get together.
    
    Of course if there aren't enough participants there may not be a
    course.
    
    Mike

    Thanks Mike, that sounds like the right mix.  People ought to enjoy
    your course almost as much as WDW itself.  The "save money" stuff
    is about as interesting to me as childbirth-labor lessons.
    
    Mark

    >The "save money" stuff is about as interesting to me as
    >childbirth-labor lessons.
    
     It's pretty boring for yours truly too.

Well, we leave for WDW two weeks and 33 minutes from now and I have a 
question regarding packing...

We are flying down, which poses more limitations on what/how much stuff we
can bring.  My question is, should we bring our own beach towels?

This will be a totally Disney vacation, staying on property and only visiting 
Disney parks.   We plan on a day each at Typhoon Lagoon and Blizzard Beach,
and we also plan on swimming at the hotel pool fairly frequently.  Does Disney
supply towels at the hotel pools and/or water parks?  Is there a fee?  How much?

Thanks,

- Lori

You might want to visit

http://members.aol.com/DVClubber/plnguide/tripplan/packlist.htm

Waterparks have towels to rent, but they are small.  The suggestion for people
traveling via air is to use your hotel room towels.  Also take water sandals or
a pair of flip flops.

--Scott

    these are great souvenir items, buy them in Florida and use them during
    your stay.  The airlines are used to people dragging a couple DISNEY
    shopping bags back with them.
    
    If you just HAVE TO pack everything in the suitcase for the trip home,
    do what I do.  THROW AWAY THE UNDERWEAR AND SOCKS!  :-)
    
    Mark

    
    In my one WDW experience, towels were provided at the hotel 
    pool (Boardwalk).   Towels were rented at Typhoon lagoon -
    maybe something like $1 each.  We used a coupon from the back
    of the Birnbaum book that allowed rental of up to six towels
    free.  
    
    I wouldn't cart towels down in my luggage.  The pools are all 
    heated and the climate isn't like New England so the need for 
    a huge beach towel isn't the same as it is here (i.e. dry off
    so you don't freeze to death...).
    
    Carol
     

    We use the hotel towels. Before we leave for swimming, we call
    housekeeping and ask them to bring us fresh towels. When we get back to
    the room there is a pile of fresh towels on the bed.
    
    John

Are the WDW resort pools heated?  It looks like it's been pretty chilly
down there lately.

What about the water at BB & TL?

- Lori

    Lori,
    
    When I inquired about the water parks operating hours during November
    the cast member I spoke with indicated the water at both BB and TL is
    heated.  At River Country (RC) only the pool is heated.
    
    I'm not as positive about all resort pools.  Anyone .......
    
    Bill 

    
    When you go to BB or TL in the winter/spring they post
    the 'water temp' on a board at the entrance.  They do
    heat the water to some extent, but only to the point of
    making it comfortable to stay in the water or slides.....
    not like you'd see steam rising off the wave pool or anything.  8^}
    Shark Reef is never heated (it might even be refridgerated) and 
    quite possibly the coldest water I've EVER swam in (great in the 
    summer)!  BRRRrrrrrrr.
    
    On 2 winter/spring trips I've been on:
    
    Yacht/Beach Club - Stormalong Bay, yes - side pools, no
    Contemporary - New pool was heated, jaccuzzi in the center was
    			quite nice too. 
    PO - no
    BB/TL - depended on the general weather if they heated or not
    
    
    --Bert
    
    

    Well, we just got back from the Polynesian and their three pools are
    heated.