Conference 7.286::golf

    Yesterdays issue of USA Today had an article and picture of the new
    Ping Zing irons.  The picture showed the club from the back.  It
    "appears" to ever so slightly larger than the PE2, but this is just an
    opinion.  The weight distribution has been changed to add more weight
    to the toe and heal.  This was done by taking some of the upper and
    lower rim metal near the center of the club and adding it to the rim
    area of the toe and heal.  Looking down at the club, you now have about
    a 3/4" area behind the club face which has no rim area.
    
    On the Ping suit, they had some very interesting info.  The trial date
    is Nov.3, 1992.  Interestingly enough, prior to the banning of square
    grooved clubs in 1988 (1986?), the PGA "changed" some rules which would
    allow the PGA Rules committee to pass this ban on square grooved clubs. 
    Prior to the change, the Rules committee had to have a unanimous vote
    for a change in any rule.  After the modificatiom, it only took a
    simple majority.  
    
    When the vote for banning square grooved clubs came up for ballot, 3
    vote for the ban and the 7 remaining members ABSTAINED because of what
    they said was conflict of interest.  If there was a possiblity of
    conflict of interest, then these folks should not have been on the
    committee.  The fix was on.
    
    Anyways, Karsten may not be part of the PGA in-crowd, but around
    Christmas time he will have all their money.  The suit is for $100M and
    I would suspect that with all the evidence that is known (and much more
    available that is not public yet), Karsten will give a lot of
    heartburn.
    
    Mark
    

    
    
    I called around looking for prices on Pings
    
    Shaker Hills in Harvard Ping Eye $500....new ZINGS just received $580
    
    Overlook GC in Hollis N.H. Ping Eye $480..new ZINGS just received $500
    
    What a price difference....I think I'm heading up to Overlook SOON!
    
    
    

     Yeah, if you can stand to look at that "top line" on the Zing. Dog
    ugly, and fatter'n a town dog...
    
    Jack

    
    RE: to my .2
    
    3 - PW
    
    Overlook GC prices        Ping Eye 2 - $450
    
                              Ping Zing $550 (med stiff shaft)
                                   they have one set of Black
                                   if they have to order then
                                   it take 4-8 weeks to get them.
    
    

    Jack, you are right. My club has a set of Zings and they are Coyote
    ugly. I think Karsten has taken a step backwards with the Zings. I hope
    his metal woods are not as radical as the Zings.
    
    If the trend continues, he's liable to re-introduce the pickle putter
    and call is something corny. 
    
    Maybe the reason he didn't have pictures at the PGA show was because
    of the look. I question whether they will sell.
    
    Ken 

I agree you'd have to be able to hit them blindfolded.

    re: .5
    
    Come on, Ken.  Who cares what a club LOOKS like?  The Zings will sell
    because of their functionality and ability to make a heel/toe mishit
    stay in play.  As usual, Ping can't make 'em fast enough.  Pretty good
    price, too.
    
    On the driver, I would like to try one out when they show up.  I have
    finally started to get the feel of my graphite-shaft Big Bertha Xmas
    present.  All my other sticks are steel shafts and the graphite swing
    requires a little more patience (for me at least!).
    
    OK, OK.  Pings Zings may be ugly....  or at least different from
    anything else on the market.  But so were the Ping Eye 2s and their
    record is well set into the minds of the USGA and PGA, besides all the
    hackers.
    
    By the way, do the Zings have compliant square grooves?!?!?!?
    
    Tee 'em high and let 'em fly,
    
    Mark
    

    re .7
    
    Well my feeling is that the look of the club is one of the more
    important factors. A physicist might explain that all clubs are created
    fairly equal. That is to say that an expensive set is not necessarily
    any more effective of a club than say Northwesterns. But everyone who's 
    bitten by the golf addiction knows that all clubs are not nearly the
    same, if for no other reason than there is a "confidence" factor. 
    
    Now, a bad club - perhaps one that is bent, or uses cheap shaft
    materials, is a bad club. All the confidence in the world won't help
    it. But between clubs of equal quality in materials, assembly, loft,
    lie, and overall design, hitters confidence separates the good from the
    bad and the ugly.
    
    I would never buy clubs whose looks I didn't like. For me, the other
    discriminating factor is if they're Japanese.

    Custom club fitters have found that even if a club "fits" you
    perfectly, if it doesn't look good to you - you won't hit it very well.
    Beauty is not only in the eye of the beholder, there also seems to be a
    functional correlation.
    
    --Jack (Temporarily back to hitting "Blades...")

    re: .8
    
    Does your Japanese comment mean that you wouldn't buy a set of clubs
    made in Japan?
    
    How about a "good looking" set of Japanese clubs?  How about if they
    were better "looking" than American clubs?
    
    What would you say if you found out parts of many American clubs were
    made in Japan?
    
    Are you only against pure Japanese clubs or also American/Japanese
    clubs?
    
    Would you have a beer with Jumbo Osaki or drink by yourself?
    
    Mark
    
    
    

    re .10
    
    Mark - If your being a smart ass, gimme half a break eh?
    
    >>Does your Japanese comment mean that you wouldn't buy a set of clubs
        made in Japan?
    
    My comment was "For me the other discriminating factor is if they're
    Japanese." This means thats when considering two or more sets of
    clubs, if one of 'em is Japanese i would put that factor in the
    disadvantage list. An american made set will get that factor put into
    the advantage list. That's all. It doesn't mean that I would
    automatically deselect them. It doesn't mean I'd engage into laborious
    research to determine which parts are made where. It doesn't mean I
    wouldn't drink a brew with Jumbo Osaki either. I don't mean any offense
    to anyone, Japanese or anglo, anyone at all. I have no prejudice
    against the Japanese. Its just these days if the choice exists to buy
    American or foreign, I'm trying to keep the buckage here at home.
    
    Oh one other thing, if I misinterpreted the spirit of your reply, I
    apologize in advance.
    
    Now back to the subject of clubs...
    
    

    RE: .11
    
    "For me the other DISCRIMINATING factor is if they're Japanese."
    
    "I have no PREJUDICE against the Japanese."
    
    You are either drinking too much coffee or you're a Democrat.
    
    Ha!
    
    Regards,
    
    Mark
    

     PING ZING INFO.?
    
     
    I KNOW THAT THERE WAS SOME INFO A FEW MONTHS BACK ABOUT THE
    NEW PING ZINGS. BUT I DON'T THINK ANYONE HAD ACTUALY HIT THEM
    AS OF THAT TIME. I SAW THE ADS ON TV THIS WEEKEND DURING THE
    OPEN AND OF COURSE THEY SANG A SONG ABOUT THEM BUT I NEED TO 
    KNOW FROM SOMEONE THAT WILL BE TRUTHFULL. PRICES WOULD BE 
    GREAT ALSO. THANKS.
    
    
                  BOB L.
    

I've had a Ping Zing 1 iron for 4 weeks. I can hit it a lot better than my Ping
Eye-2 2 iron. Both in terms of distance (expected) and direction.

Sometime when I have lots of money I may get a complete set. Fortunately for me
I got the Zing for free after winning the Pro's jackpot at my club (2 birdies on
2 par 3's). It's worth $nz185 ~ $us99 (the club - the jackpot was $275).

One guy I played with recently says he couldn't even try to hit one, it looks
too weird for him. Personally I don't mind the look at all.

Lindsay

    I'll stick with my Ping Karsten I irons that I've had for the last twenty
    years.  They have spoiled me to the point that I don't know if I will
    ever be able to play with anything else!  Until they wear through from
    re-grooving or break from reshafting, these irons are here to stay! The
    point I'm trying to make is the excellent quality of workmanship of
    these clubs.---- Get the PINGS!
    
    Mike

    Is it possible to buy Ping Zing's with graphite shafts? I am also
    interested in hearing more from people who have hit them.
    
    Thanks
    
    BUDMAN

    
    I hate to show my ignorance but what is the difference between
    the Ping Eye 2 irons and these new Ping Zings?  I'm going to have to
    start reading Golf Digest and Golf Magazine again.
    
    Not in the Know.....JD
    

>    I hate to show my ignorance but what is the difference between
>    the Ping Eye 2 irons and these new Ping Zings?  

     The Zings are uglier than the Ping Eye 2's (which are pretty ugly
     clubs in their own right)....Just my opinion.

	Larry

    Yeah, they're UGLY - but they probably work. They have a "scalloped"
    look to the top line. Not for me - but Karsten is one smart cat.
    
    --Jack

If you take a Ping Eye 2, widen the face somewhat, take a chunk out of the
perimeter weighting at the back of the sole, and move it to the top of the toe
of the club, and stick it onto one of Karsten's new shafts, you've got a Zing.

It's no more unusual looking than Lynx clubs, but the knob on the toe could put
some golfers off.

Lindsay

    Does anyone know what the benefits are of the Zing over the Eye 2 or
    other irons.
    
    What about these special shafts?????
    
    Thnx,  JD

    I hit a demo set on the range a few weeks back.  After hitting the
    Zings alternating with the Eye 2's, I noticed several things:
    
    > The Zings appeared bigger but felt lighter.
    > Seemed to have a lower center of gravity.
    > After hitting a couple of dozen and then picking up my old clubs,
      the Eye 2's looked like a convential blade!
    
    Bottom line is that the day I tried them, I was hitting the ball pure
    with either club.  What does that tell you?
    
    Are the worth it...I'll let you decide.  Would your trade in 10 Eye 2's
    that are 6 years old, excellant condition for 8 Zings and throw in 
    approximately $374 - $400!!! .... the Zing's didn't feel THAT good!

The previous topics remind me of the famous line:-

"I've never gone to bed with an ugly woman, but I've sure woken up 
with a few."

Forget what they look like, do they serve their purpose.  Having 
re-read this note, this was not meant as a sexist comment - sorry.

I've played blades all my life, currently I have a set of Dunlop 
Maxfli Australian blades, before that I had Lynx USA, and prior to 
that I had a very old set of Tommy Armours.  Yesterday, I was fitted 
for a set of ZING's, which hopefully should arrive within the next 2-4 
weeks.

If anyone has ever used PING EYE II's, they will know how easy it is 
to hit the medium to long irons.  They are designed to give most 
golfers more confidence, by getting the ball airborne very quickly, 
and they are a very forgiving club.  The sweet-spot, or centre of 
gravity, or whatever you call it is enormous, allowing a greater 
margin of error through the strike.

Traditionalists, some people call them golfing snobs, have always 
demeaned PINGS as "game improvement clubs", claiming that they are 
only really suitable for high handicappers. The large sweet-spot 
doesn't give the "true" golfer the same feel as a traditional blade.  
This feel being needed on the shorter irons, to guide the ball while 
it momentarily contacts the club surface.  And I have to admit, that I 
have been of the same opinion until very recently.

My mate bought a set of PING ZING's two months ago.  Admittedly, they 
do look different, strange even.  However, they do work.  The short 
irons, have been designed to give this much sought after feel, while 
the medium to longer irons still retain this tremendously forgiving 
capability.  How this is done, I'm not quite sure.  But the previous 
note is fairly accurate.  PING seems to have taken a chunk out of the 
back of the base of the club, and stuck it to the back of the toe of 
the club.  I have always struggled with my 3,4 & 5 irons off the deck, 
but with the new ZING's, I can certainly make my 4 and 5 sing.  My 
natural shot is a slight draw.  My bad shot being a serious duck hook, 
or even worse a disastrous push right.  With the ZING's, I get 
tremendous accuracy with the short irons, and occasional hooks with 
the 4 and 5.

It's gotten so bad, that when I play with my mate who has the ZING's, 
I deliberately hit my ball up to his, so that I can borrow a club to 
hit into the green.  They may cost a lot of money, but they give me so 
much confidence, and really that's what golf is all about, they're 
worth it.  I just can't wait for mine to arrive.

Having said all that, I've just bought a Taylormade 7-wood, which 
makes my 3 & 4 -irons obsolete.  However, I think I'll start a 
separate note on the benefits of 7-woods, if there isn't one already.

    
    I've got a Ping Zing putter and it's flipping marvelous.
    
    (shame I can't use it properly......!!)

    Are the ZING's available as a copy, yet? Can they be bought with
    graphite shafts? What would a new set cost?
    
    Thanks
    
    Randy

    
    re: .10
    
    Congrats!  You had to get measured for these, right?  I have heard they
    check for distance from middle finger tip to ground and also check
    angle of lie.  Anything else?  How did they check lie - tape?
    
    -pat

    
    OK... Since the Zings have been out a full season now, I'd be
    interested to hear any opinions about them. I am considering
    trading my 845's (plus $$) for a set of Zings.
    
    The only reason I would consider doing this is because the Zings
    are advertised, or talked about, as being a TRUE 'game improving'
    club. Let's not get into bad swings, etc. What I would like comments
    about is : Are the Zings going be a more consistent club for me? I
    average mid eighties, but do wander into the 90's as well as low 80's.
    
    I play only once a week, so I want to get any advantage I can. A guy in
    my foresome got them about a month ago, and he has improved his iron
    game... SO FAR. He was not a good iron player anyway.. so I feel that
    some of the improvement is simply more concentration etc...
    
    Bottom line... are the Zings worth the $$. I have the 845's now, and
    like them. But... 
    
    		Smitty
    

    Before you invest,I saw a set of Zing copies in a pro shop for about
    1/3 the price and they looked exactly like the real thing.  They are
    called Calcutta's.  Don't have any other info but I was surprised at
    the similarity.
    
    SCD(Whose handicap is back up where I can afford it)
    
    

    re: .26  Are the copies avail. yet.
    
    I have built 3 sets thus far.  They work great and are extremely good
    copies.  You can even see places from the molds where they have filled
    or welded in the numbers of the club to move them to a more "lawyer
    acceptable" location.
    
    I have built them with graphite and steel shafts.  certainly less
    expensive than the real thing.
    
    -jr
    

    This may foment a little "discussion" from the Ping freaks in the file,
    but, IMO, you're better off with a Ping clone - at least you can get a
    shaft that you like. I just never liked the feeling of the Ping shaft.
    Gimme a Dynamic gold, Apex or graphite/boron ANYtime...
    
    __Jack

    I was told by a pro on the west coast who does a ton of customize
    fitting that the ping shafts are inferior and do not come close to the
    true temper specs.
    
    						Phil

    His opinion might have been clouded by the fact that only a few repair
    people specifically designated by PING can get Ping shafts, hence the
    comment "mine are just as good, better, etc." However, I totally agree
    with him if he's saying that the PING shaft "feels" klunky. I can't
    imagine PING producing anything inferior, though - I don't like 'em,
    but they make QUALITY stuff, and they have great R&D.
    
    __Jack

    He seemed to have knowledge about the ping shaft and I believe he said
    they purchase it and it is a cheaper grade as he designs and
    manufactures a line of clubs himself.
    
    						Phil

    I agree with Jack. If PING wanted to put a different shaft on the
    clubs, they would. Shaft technology is not secret, and PING would
    make/buy graphite, Dynamic.. etc. IF they wanted too. I don't
    think it has ANYTHING to do with costs... geeze they are expensive
    enough... (more than most top clubs with other shafts). And if they
    had to charge more becuse of a shaft.. THEY WOULD.. and still sell
    um.
    
    	Smitty
    
    

    The specifications for Ping ZZ-lite shaft are almost an exact copy of
    the True Temper TT-lite.  The step pattern is the only difference.  I
    have replaced many Ping Iron shafts with TT-lites without a problem.
    
    Rick

    If you are replacing the ping shafts with TT-lites, be sure you buy
    special shafts with tapered tips instead of the standard parallel tip
    that most everyone else uses.  
    
    Ping is one of very few that does not use parallel tip shafts and this
    could be a problem if fitted with a parallel shaft.
    
    
    jr

    I am seriously considering trading-in my Eye-2 (+)'s for a set of
    Zings.  I would very much like to know what experiences other players
    have had doing the same.  I've gotten really mixed comments from
    different people on this, and just hitting a bucket on the practice tee
    is not a good indication for me.
    
    So, how did you feel about playing the Eye-2's vs. the Zings?
    
    FWIW. I'm not a work-the-ball kind of guy, although I can pull off a
    pretty good fade with the long irons (unintentionally, of course...). 
    I want to hit the darn thing straight.  (please, no lessons - I've
    taken 5 privates already this year) My typical shot tends to run
    pretty high and stop pretty dead on the green.  (I'm talking a high 6
    iron that carries 150 yds)  Without going into mechanics here, I think
    my irons are a bit too high, but I do like being able to stick it on a
    green without trying to pull off backspin, which I can't do anyway... 
    I have a pretty fast club head speed and prefer a stiff shaft on woods.
    
    Thanks.  Your comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated.
    Bob

    > ...into mechanics here, I think my irons are a bit too high
    
    any of the per. weighted/cav. back designed clubs will
    tend to hit the ball higher than a normal blade club...it's in the
    design, it was one of the reasons that when manuf. first started
    testing
    them they found they had to change the lofts(stronger) to get what
    they considered normal ball flight with a specific club....
    
    look at any of these clubs specs. and you'll find their lofts
    stronger than a equiv. blade club....
    
    FWIW

    
    
      I've played them both. The zing heads have a remarkable ability to resist
    torque due to the weight distribution. So as stated elsewhere in here the 
    ball flight will be much straighter. Also they are much more forgiving on
    mis-hits than the eye2s. There is only 1 shaft stiffness available
    for the metal shafts which is somewhere just short of stiff. You can
    still hook or fade the ball intentionally but not as much as blades.
    There is a big notch cut out of the mid-sole so maybe hitting them too
    high won't be a problem.
    
    As an aside: they are cast so they will not provide as much
    feedback / feel / sweet spot as forged irons. This is obviously an 
    important factor to many better players especially on the short irons. 
    You should decide what tradeoffs you will need to make. You seem
    settled on cast so no problem.
    

    I have finally had a chance to hit the Zings.  I can't say that I could
    see much difference in the clubs from my Eye-2 +'s, however, the short
    irons felt very awkward to me.  Could be that I'm just used to my old
    clubs.  Anyway, I have decided to stay with the Eye-2's.
    
    I must have talked with 6 or 7 different pro shops about the
    differences in the two.  The common feeling was that Eye-2 players do
    not embrace the Zings as much as non-Ping players.  In fact, one club
    reported a 40% return rate on the clubs, in general.  Still, the Zings
    remain wildly popular.
    
    Bob

    I'm still playing my 20 year old Karsten I's.  The Zings look and feel
    too different.  If it works why change!