Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    
    I have not seen the CVG::GUITAR note, but I'd like to relate something
    Roger Powell told me.
    
    Roger was writing a column in Keyboard Magazine about programming.  
    This was shortly before MIDI came into existence.  Anyway, the folks
    at Keyboard thought he was getting too "techie" for their readership.
    
    Since that time, we have seen TONS of keyboardists jump on the MIDI 
    bandwagon.  The result has been a new "hacker's machismo" in the music
    world.  Guitar players have not jumped into the computer age as easily.
    Perhaps it has someting to do with the fact that computers have KEYBOARDS.
    
    -Ed
    

    BTW - The word "elitist" in the title to this note is mine, not to be
    construed as being GUITAR's perception of this file or the
    participants.
    
    Edd

  I read this conference because of the information contained within it. Even
 more important is the respectful way the participants conduct themselves.
 While I might not have the depth of understanding that the more familiar
 participants have, I don't see an attitude which inhibits me from 
 participating should I so choose.

    Bob Tassinari

    Hmmm.  Maybe they're talking about the wrong conference.  The
    conference they mean is probably the VAXC conference ...  ;^)
    
    Steve

I find this conference to have more than its share of bright folks who also
(usually) communicate well. Not only that (and more importantly) I have rarely
observed anything I would classify as "intellectual snobbery," which would really
take a lot of the joy out of the discussions.

I have noticed, though, that a *lot* of people in this world have far too great
a fear of making fools of themselves, which is a shame. This really comes out
when said individuals are in the midst of sharp minds, and they end up being
"intimidated" by their own fear to the point of not saying *anything.*

In short, then, I don't see any need for COMMUSICers to take any blame on
themselves for what I'd interpret as others' insecurities. Naive newcomers, from
what I've seen, are welcomed and referred to "getting started" notes on a pretty
regular basis.

I should note, though, that I have not seen the original notes in the GUITAR
conference referred to in the basenote, so it's quite possible I'm off base in
my interpretation. In any case, I don't mean any offense- I know full well how
difficult acquiring self-confidence can be.

(I'm sure that all my friends in COMMUSIC will vouch for the fact that I have
absolutely *no* fear of making a fool of myself- right, guys?)

Cheers-
	Bob

    I must admit I once felt intimidated by the members of this
    conference...of course that was when I first started at LKG when I was
    a Junior in high school!  How *couldn't* one feel intimidated... ;-)
    
    But now, the only thing that separates me from everyone else out there
    who's elite is that I have *one* (1) MIDI device and everyone else has
    *fifteen* (15).
    
    Of course, this elitist stand on the part of everyone else in the
    conference towards me, is NOT the conference's fault.
    
    Ha, ha.  Get it?
    
    Elite, no.  Informative, friendly, and resourceful yes.
    
    Mike   (-=mikie=-)

    I have seen that note (I read GUITAR).
    
    I frankly can't imagine how anyone could come out of this conference
    with these impressions.  I would REALLY like to see references to
    the examples of the notes that gave them this impression.
    
    I often cite this conference as an example of how/what conferences and
    noters should be.
    
    I agree with Bob's (.5) observation that a lot of people stay read-only
    out of a fear (which I don't understand) of revealing a lack of
    knowledge or whatever which is ironic, because it's been stated 1000
    times that the value of this conference is what we learn from it
    (a lack of knowledge).
    
    There's another theory (supported by scientific experiment) that people
    are better at coming up with negative explanations of social behavior
    than they are at coming up with positive ones.
    
    This theory is the origin of the expression: "Never attribute to malice
    what can be adequately explain by ignorance".
    
    And there's a perfect example of that in the GUITAR note:  One of the
    accusations was that we are only interested in talking about the 
    high end stuff and that when someone posts a query about low end stuff
    they get no replies.
    
    This was attributed to high end snobbery, yet in fact, I believe it's
    mostly because a lot of the most knowledgeable/vocal types in here
    DO stick mostly to the high end and thus simply are not familiar with
    the low end stuff.
    
    Thus, they don't answer not because of snobbery, but simply because 
    they don't have the answers.
    
    When you combine this observe sociological inclination to presume
    bad motives with Bob's theory, it's not hard to understand how people
    could react this way.
    
    I know of ANOTHER example.   When I moderated MUSIC, and a duplicate
    topic was create, I had a standard reply (identicaly to Edd's) that
    said how the person could've found the other topic.
    
    More than one person got offended by that, and claimed that it implied
    that they "should've known" how to find it, and such when in fact,
    such thoughts never entered my mind.  I provided the information so
    that they would know in the future, not as an admonishment for not
    knowing in the past. 
    
    So what was offered as "help" was recieved as "a public humiliation"
    (that is an actual quote BTW - the others are NOT actual quotes).
    
    I say, the most we can do is find what notes offended them and have
    a look and see if it was justified.  I suspect it was
    mis-interpretation EXACTLY according to Bob's theory and the theory
    I mentioned.
    
    	db

    It's all because Edd's been whacking newcomers and making them use
    yucky stuff like keywords that no other conference bothers to
    implement, shaming them right out the door ;-)
    
    I went over and read that Guitar topic.. not all of it, just the last
    100 replies or so.  It's true I don't have much to say about the latest
    DAK offer of the Miracle Keyboard.. but ask me about patchbays and
    studio wiring and multitracks and recording techniques and coexisting
    with your significant other and the artistic viability of computer
    generated music.
    
    Slams are in the eye of the beholder, I guess.
    
    karl

    I don't know about that.....There have been alot of replies around a
    certain line of Service Merchandise  Yamaha PSR*** which are all under
    $400 new. As a matter of fact the reviews were all very positive.
    
    As a guitar player I actively read both files. I have little to
    contribute in this file and find many of the topics to be beyond my
    scope of useful information. I personally have never had a problem
    asking for clarification on topics that seemed common knowledge to
    other COMMISIC noters.
    
    I enjoy noting here and know I get more than I offer in this
    conference.
    
    Brian 

    It HAS occured to me that newcomers may get put off by my asking them
    (telling them?) to use keywords may be negatively impacting the
    perception of the file.
    
    I don't know what to do. There is certainly a "noting etiquette" within
    DEC, and reading the conference ground rules is part of it. I don't
    think anyone should have to continually "clean up" misplaced notes, but
    agree that "someone has to do it".
    
    Do we really want a constant stream of new "What $200 keyboard should I
    buy?" notes? No, but we'd reeally like to help you decide IF WE CAN!!
    
    ...reminds me of the cookie recipe that gets posted about 12 times a
    year in the COOKS conference.
    
    Edd

    >Do we really want a constant stream of new "What $200 keyboard should I
    >buy?" notes? 
    
    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO  !!!
    
    the fact that there's 'only' 2800 notes 6 or 7 years down the road is a
    testament to the fortitude, rectitude and attitude of current and former 
    moderatordudes.  thanks, guys !
    
    karl
    
    p.s. NEXT on Geraldo :  "Is COMMUSIC SEXIST ?  Where are the WOMEN
    MIDI noters ?"

    re: Edd
    
    As MUSIC moderator, I just accepted as a fact of life that not all
    people know to look at the conference rules and just accepted
    relocating those notes and writing those messages as something
    tht someone did have to continually do.
    
    I don't remember whether or not your wording had any negative charma
    in it, but you might want to look at it again and say "if I was a
    paranoid schizophrenic is there some way some way I could interpret
    this as an offense."
    
    Dave's motto:   "If you presume that a paranoid schizophrenic will read
    	 your note and somehow interpet it as a personal slam, you will
    	 be right more often than not."   It's just the way NOTES is.

    Re: .10
    
    Edd,
    
    As moderator of two other notesfiles, I typically move the notes to
    where they belong, then send mail to the author informing him why,
    where it is (one guy reentered his note when he couldn't find it) and a
    brief explanation about how to do keyword searches, etc.  I usually
    get a polite "thank you" back from the noter.  Luckily, those
    conferences are smaller than this one so searching for related notes is
    a lot quicker  8^)  8^)
    
    						Brian
    
    

    
    With all its flaws...keep it like it is! Its saved me money and helped
    me make decisions. I usually get answers to my stupid questions!!!!!!
    
    Jay

    It occurred to me that the very thing that attracts me to COMMUSIC may be 
  what others interpret as 'elitest'.

    I find that GUITAR to be more 'rough around the edges'. That is to say
  that there's lots of foolin' around, bravado, wise-talking etc. whereas 
  COMMUSIC is less concerned with these trivialities.

    If your style is 'rough and ready' COMMUSIC just might not be your cup 'o 
  tea.


    - Bob

    
    re: .15 - there used to be some good natured bashing in here,
    especially with the early COMMUSIC tapes, but some misrable "do-gooder"
    caused a stink, and now the only in-joke left around is Tom's opinions.
    
    i've never heard any variants of "dude" in here, while there are a
    plenty in guitar. But lot's of weenie jokes/references. I'm afraid
    we are becoming too VoD'd - value my difference, don't exist! I think
    this note, and the accompanying discussion in GUITAR indicates we all
    need to step outside, take a deep breath, and laugh....
    
    	bob(weenie_musician)

Once upon a time, two dweebs were blithely whizzing packets around the
net, and... they collided!


Dweeb 1: Hey! You got twisted humor in my esoteric techno-jargon!

Dweeb 2: Hey! You got esoteric techno-jargon in my twisted humor!


And thus did the first COMMUSIC note thread come into being...

    RE: .15,.16,.17
    
    What ever happened to Len's MIDI'd rack-mount cat?  Those were the
    days.
    
    -=mikie=-

    Or Dave Dreher's MIDI-wife? (Or Dave Dreher for that matter?)
    
    Edd

COMMUSIC elitist?  Nah...couldn't be.

I'm mostly read-only here as I'm a percussionist, not a synthesist.  Mostly
I cast about for information on recording techniques, who's doing what, what
equipment is better, etc.  Mostly I read just to keep current with other
instruments and the people who play them.

One thing I've noticed about most conferences:  The ones that have proactive
moderators tend to draw the dreaded 'elitist' accusations.  As for me, I 
appreciate the moderator's tactfull moving of postings, or closing off the 
"Where can I get a good, used synthesizer that can do everything a Fairlight
can do for less than $50," threads.

Additionally, I've found that everyone in here conducts themselves in a manner
that I would classify as "model."  If only all conferences were like this...

Something to keep in mind is that the people who note here tend to be much
more professionally oriented as musicians.  Perhaps it is the level of
professionalism that the less-secure types find offensive...

I wouldn't change a thing personally.

/chris

    I don't see any "let's change the way Commusic runs" mindset going on.
    
    it's true it's less fun than it useta, but then so is my whole life.
    |-<
    
    Trying to think who the miserable do-gooder was...
    
    karl

    RE: Edd (on Dave Dreher)
    
    	Dave Dreher is alive and well and living in MRO1. I see him
    occasionaly in the locker room on MRO1-3. He runs about once or twice
    a week. 
    
    	One of the funniest entries in this file was Edd's 'When you know
    you're a MIDI-holic' or some such title. It was HALARIOUS! 
    
    
    Frank

    Of *course* we're elitist.  Why else would our favorite co-mod spell
    his name with *2* d's instead of one?
    
+b (co-mod who initially imposed all this keyword nonsense and glad I did)

    Well, it seems that my one little caustic snippet in Guitar notes has
    ballooned into a giant issue, which it was never intended to, so I feel
    that I should probably apologize for starting all this.  This seems
    like a more appropriate place then Guitar, since the comment was
    directed toward this notesfile.

    Perhaps part of it was that I wrote that original note (1954.1475) that
    really started it the day after Christmas, when I was sick as a dog and
    feeling a little more cynical then usual.  I'm not sure, but things
    seem to have gotten a little out of hand.  As I was the primary one
    that was "defending" the position I presented, perhaps I got a little
    intent on responding to what people said about it and lost track of
    what I was really trying to say.  Now, after taking a step back and
    looking at the whole discussion again.

    Anyway, if anyone's interested in looking at the discussion I'd like to
    direct you to specific series of notes, as note 1954 is our "General
    Discussion" note, where we put anything that doesn't really apply to
    the other topics and it's huge and I wouldn't want anyone to have to
    wade through all that mess to try and find the revelant discussion. 
    
    The notes in question are 1954.1473-.1493, .1505-.1511, and .1547-.1581
    (currently .last in the topic).  The discussion has kind of changed
    tack in the last 10 or so replies and has mutated into "What's wrong
    with the Guitar notesfile" in the last few replies though, so when you
    get to that you may want to stop if that doesn't interest you.

    I'm not going to try and respond to any of the previous notes
    individually, since they weren't really directed at me (although some
    of them seemed to imply things which I didn't consider terribly
    complementary).  However, I will say a couple of things (for the
    record).

    Dave (Blickstein) suggested that the people involved in this discussion
    in Guitar should prove their position by giving specific note
    references from this conference.  I'm afraid that I can't really do
    that because it was just an intangible overall "feeling" that I had and
    I'm not sure I could explain it if I wanted to.  

    While I can be somewhat insecure at times, I do not feel that I'm
    lacking in the  intelligence required to comprehend the topics here
    (although I am certainly lacking in the *experience* to understand some
    of them).  I have generally been considered by most people I've talked
    with to be a reasonable, rational noter, not tending toward paranoia.

    One thing I'd like to point out specifically is that any feelings I may
    have (or had) about this conference are definitively NOT due in any way
    to the action of the Moderators here.  I agree this this conference is
    very well moderated and I have no problem whatsoever with Edd's "go
    look at the existing topic" references to duplicate topics.  That's
    tough to say in a way that won't offend *somebody* out there though
    (but it would never offend me).  I help moderate two other employee
    interest conferences (one of them is Guitar, but it still needs a lot
    of work in organization) and several work-related conferences, so I
    fully understand the issues regarding moderation of a large conference. 
    FWIW, I always supported Dave Blickstein's moderation techniques in the
    MUSIC conference as well (and also support Brian Markey's today).

    As I said in at least a couple of my notes in Guitar, I have not been
    getting the feeling that prompted me to make that comment as much in
    the last few months.  I don't know if this is because my attitudes are
    changing or because this conference has been changing.

    As someone previously pointed out, there is quite a bit of difference
    in the "feel" of these two conferences (and in the slang used in them).

    I figure I've babbled enough here (something which I'm unfortunately
    quite prone to do).  I basically just wanted to say that I'm sorry if I
    offended any of you by making that negative comment about your
    notesfile.  I won't be attempting to argue my position in here, I just
    wanted to try and put some of what I said in perspective.  As I said in
    Guitar, I'm sorry I even brought it up now.

    Greg
                                                                     

    > ...ballooned into a giant issue.
    
    Greg, I think I can speak for most everyone; you didn't create a big
    issue. A lot of conversation, yes, but an issue? Nah... Hell, I'll
    bet many of us thought this was FUN! (I did) Ya gave us a chance to
    step back and look at ourselves for a second...
    
    > Apologize...
    
    Trust me, you have nothing to apologize for.
    
    We *like* to be intimidating. It helps keep them pompous guitarists
    in their place....;^)
    
    /e

    
    Jeez, just when we started up a fun new note full of sarcasm and wit,
    someone has to come around and make it serious again.  Humph!
    
    Just kidding, Greg!  I think the biggest problem for COMMUSIC is that
    it's typed, not spoken.  You can't sense the nuances of humor and
    feeling that are thought by the writer, but are black and white in
    print.
    
    Little smiley faces only work so often!   ;-)
    
    -=mikie=-

    
    >we have seen TONS of keyboardists jump on the MIDI
    >bandwagon.  The result has been a new "hacker's machismo"
    
    Not to rain on your parade...a good percentage of MIDI research
    and production comes from the keyboard and synth world.  Keyboard 
    people were always on the 'wagon' from day uno.   
    
    Kris...

I am a beginning (female) midi user and found a lot about getting started in
this file.  I didn't start my own note but did ask for an update to an older
note to find out what was new.  It was somewhat helpful but the most helpful
was ...w..a..d..i..n..g  through the tons of keyboard reviews in here.  I am
a long time musician (over thirty years, I play about 10 different instruments
but am poor on keyboards).  I don't read GUITAR.

I also sense a bit of intimidation in this file.  Myself, I am a practiced
notes user so I understand the etiquette but, for a while, notes-naive midi-
beginners were getting their hands slapped pretty hard for entering a .0
note (I remember such a case back around September/October when I first
started reading).  After I got used to the "style" here, things seemed less
hard.  I also like the moderator's new tack of answering an inappropriate .0
with a dir/keyword of the appropriate notes which certainly must help beginners
who don't know how to go about such things.

This is a very big conference with a lot of highly qualified, very technical
people and a lot of information.  It has a very steep entry curve for the
beginner.  But, with a bit of tact and consideration, I think it can be
useful and helpful to everybody.  

Myself, I enjoy it very much now, even though I'm "next unseeing" most of the
topics yet.  I really like the lighter touch I've noticed lately.  The
musician jokes are great :-)

Cheryl

Re .25-current:

Yo Greg- I'll echo the sentiment that this discussion has actually been useful
and even enojoyable- like the fish peddler says, catharsis is good for the
sole (or haddock or cod, for that matter).

Geez, guys, maybe we should explore this a bit further anyway. F'rinstance, this
thread *really* highlighted, IMHO, the strong camaraderie of this conference.
Sort of a "defending the tribe" fell about it. Don't it sorta make ya feel all
warm and gooshy inside?

Bob

	Paranoid schizophrenic that I am, I take that "only in-joke left"
	as a slam, and hey, I kind of like it! ;-)
	
	Music notes used to be anti-intellectual, so I had to leave. 8-)
	This conference used to be too pro-Visa card abuse but that's
	simmered down.

	Incidentally, this is as good a place as any to mention that I think
	that the only bug in AlgoRhythms is that I must have broken
	min/max note durations, and that caused the zero note durations
	in the MIDI files.  I can fix that this weekend.
	
	Edd, feel free to move this reply if it's in the wrong place . ;-)

	Tom

    re: .24 (G_HOUSE)
    
>    Dave (Blickstein) suggested that the people involved in this discussion
>    in Guitar should prove their position by giving specific note
>    references from this conference.  
    
    A minor nit.
    
    That wording isn't really a fair representation of what I said.
    
    Basically what I said, was that I suspected that these were 
    misunderstandings and I'd like to see the notes which gave people
    these negative feelings about COMMUSIC.
    
    And, yes, this is really NOT an issue at all.  As a student of
    "Notes sociology" I just find this reaction to COMMUSIC a curiosity
    and that's all.

    Hmm, this is pretty interesting. I also read the Guitar conference
    and in fact I am very much intimidated over there cause I have been
    playing guitar for close to thirty year and still don't know what
    the heck is the difference between humbug pick ups and coil picks
    in fact all I know is how to plug the thing in and play. However
    I know if I ask I'll probably get an answer.  So then the problem 
    is mine and not theirs cause I am embrassed to show my ignorance.
    
    This is the first conference I have noted in and while I am a read mostly
    participant I find folks here are willing to discuss any gear (i.e. 
    DD-5 drums). 
    
    I guess we should keep our insecurities to ourselves or get rid of them
    eh!
    
    Errol (well I was leading to something but did'nt want to stir up the nest)

    Well, thanks guys.  I'm glad that I didn't upset anyone.  Just seemed
    to me that a casual comment made in passing raised an astounding (to
    me) amount of discussion.  As Dave said, this written medium lends
    itself to misunderstandings because of the limitations it imposes and I
    wanted to make perfectly clear what my position was.
    
    I do know that the discussion has raised some interesting issues
    regarding peoples relative satisfaction with the Guitar conference and
    I think that's a good thing.  
    
    Sorry about misrepresenting what you said about the note references,
    Dave.  I knew what you ment, but perhaps paraphrased it in a way that
    didn't reflect the right nuances.
    
    BTW, Errol?  If you want to ask guitar questions and feel embarrassed
    about asking in Guitar notes, feel free to send me mail and I'll try
    and answer 'em offline.  I know I do this with Brian Rost when I have
    questions that I know involved absolute gross ignorance about
    COMMUSIC-related things sometimes and he's helped me out immensely.
    
    Greg
                                                                    

    COMMUSIC - *elitist*???
    
    Can a conference be considered elitist when the Frugal MIDIot provides 
    instructions on how to use (used!) clothespins for footpedals?
    
    PuhLEEEze!  (Scott...I'm still chuckling over that one! ;-)
    
    Heck - I'll fess up...I'm simply a hacker piano player who has always
    felt that the insrument I'm best at is vocals.  I am by no means a
    great player, to say nothing of my complete lack of technical knowledge
    of things MIDI.  This is the long way to say I'm MIDI-illiterate.  I
    just hated the thought of carrying around a grand piano everywhere I
    went and felt that a MIDI set-up would be the better option.  I don't
    get the rest of the stuff in this conference....
    
    Mostly, I like to read what you MIDIgiants have to say and then pretend
    I understand it.  Kind of like Gary Larson's "what we say/what dogs
    hear" cartoon...I kind of hear "blah blah blah Yamaha, blah blah blah
    Piano sounds" etc.
    
    I do try to increase my MIDIvocabulary whenever I can.  Last year when 
    Brad was on the east coast, he stopped by for dinner and a tutorial on 
    running my U220 from my KX88.  I learned handy phrases like "Roland is 
    brain-dead", "SYSEX", and "that's one mother shakuhachi".
    
    A suggestion for those who feel as intimidated as I probably should, try
    peppering your entries here with these phrases every now and then - or at
    least say them at parties.
    
    Steve - no longer a misfit
    
    

    
    re .30 -  I was fairly sure you'd enjoy the "in-joke" comment tom. And
    	seriously, your continued candor is always a welcome relief.
    
    re: greg - it should be "OK" to grouse once in a while. As a company
    	we've gotten so tangled in this "be nice to each other" that only
    	customers can get away with saying "this product sucks", after
    	we've blown 10's of millions of bucks, just because internal
    	criticism becomes "you don't value my diversity". kiss ma grits..
    
    now, let me stuff the gag back in my mouth before i get hauled yet agin
    to the woodshed...........
    
    

    OK, so the concensus seems to be that COMMUSIC is not elitist...
    
    
    but is it "politically correct"?    ;-}

    My two bits,
    
    	I note in both guitar and here and for the past two years I've
    enjoyed it.  In the beggining (and still now in commusic) I asked my
    fair share of dumb questions, but I only asked them because I wanted
    to know something.  I have experienced only help from everyone in both
    conferences.  For me it is the biggest benefeit of working for Digital
    I get to share my interest with people from around the world (sadly I
    will probably never get to put faces to names).
    	One thing that helped me understand the tone of notes was when I
    finally found out what the hell  :^) ment (smiley face).  My opinion is
    that this format is very hard to interpret feelings.  
    
    	to the read only's ....don't be scared about asking stupid
    questions  better to do it here than actually in front of someone
    
    P.K.

    I'd like to think of myself as one of the experienced knowledgeable
    noters referenced in here and I just asked what I think would be a dumb
    question in the "Home Studio Monitors" (it's something you'd think
    I'd know already).
    
    It's also far from the first one I've asked.
    
    I've never been given any second thoughts to asking dumb questions
    in here and never been given any reason to regret it.  The dumb
    questions are usually the ones that are the most important to get
    answered.

    I'd like to think of myself as one of the inexperienced unknowledgeable
    noters in here ;-)

    I don't often write in this (or any other) conference (see personal
    name), but I think that this is one of the least 'elitist' conferences
    I've come across.

    To my mind there are a number of things which discourage people from
    noting in a conference (i.e. make it 'elitist') as follows:

    *  Lots of in-jokes and personal insults between people who obviously
       sit next to each other anyway (nothing wrong with a few jolly japes,
       but in some conferences it goes a bit too far);

    *  People acting as primadonnas. You know the sort of thing I mean - 
       snobbery about owning the latest and greatest gear, showing off their
       knowledge rather than using it to help someone etc.

    *  Conference structured to appear as random noise to the uninitiated
       (imagine if instead of a note titled "Programming the DX7" (or
       something similar) we had one called "Modification of Algorhythmic
       Structures in a Frequency Modulation Environment").

    Anyway, enough rambling. I cast my vote in the 'non-elitist' box :-)

Cheers,

    Derek.

    re: .37
    
>                                     ...                         (sadly I
>    will probably never get to put faces to names).
    
    It's amazing how putting a face on a username helps me to form a mental
    picture of the author of a note.  The GUITARnoters have a notebook
    (which I've never seen) that they've sent all over the place, with each
    participant adding their own pictures.  Recently, someone scanned in
    and made available some pictures from a DECjam which featured some of
    the GUITARnoters - it's really helped to organize my thoughts.  So,
    maybe you will get to see some of the faces behind those names!
    

    LET'S DO THAT!!!  Someone start a base note (I'm too chicken) to put
    everyone's mailstop (or use the WHO'S HERE note), and then start the
    folder around!
    
    I think that's an incredible awesome idea!
    
    Mike

    Re: .many
    
    I'm a recent arrival (mostly read-only) to this conference.  While I
    *do* find the level of discussion rather daunting at times, I wouldn't
    label it as "elitist".  I'm NOT a reader of the GUITAR conference, so
    all I know of the controversy that started there is what I've read here.
    
    Novice musicians like myself really have only two choices -- learn or
    quit.  I choose the former, since it provides the greater challenge and
    potential for satisfaction.

    Uh, Dave, a monitor's a kind of lizard.
    
    Once upon a time in the early days of BIMs when a remote (i.e., not
    from the Greater Maynard Area) COMMUSIC noter made the obligatory
    pilgrimage to the fount of all Digital knowledge, we'd throw a special
    "X is in town" BIM and all kinds of people would show up.  We haven't
    had one of those in a while; all the recent BIMs have pretty much been
    Edd and Tom and me (when I'm in town), although Hoyt Nelson's dropped
    in on the past few.
    
    COMMUSIC BIMs are much better than passing around pictures, you get to
    actually talk to someone.  In progress tapes get listened to in the
    parking lot, disks of programs and sequences get exchanged, etc.  We're
    even willing to move the location to make it more convenient for people
    for whom Westborough is not on the way home.
    
    BTW, BIM stands for Big Important Meeting.
    
    So, any time one of you furners gets to make a trip out here for
    training or something, let us know and we'll organize a celebrity BIM
    around you.
    
    len.
    
    P.S. - Merlin, the "rack mounted MIDIcat" is doing fine at 16 1/2
    years, and taking a cue from the latest technology, he's now a
    lap top...
     

	It may be inadvisable in some states to use internal Digital mail for 
	sending photos around.  Can't we use a scanner and digital pictures?
tom

    Well, we have a scanner here, and I guess I could kind of smoosh my
    face down on it and take a really ugly scan..
    
    NOT !
    
    karl

    Well, heck - and here I thot the smooshed look was due to genetics.
    {nyuk nyuk}
    
    For those interested in more BIM info, do SHOW KEY/FULL BIM ...
    
    Len, nice to hear that Merlin's still about.  Still sleeps in his
    favorite spot, no doubt ...
    
+b 

    
    Well, what about those of us unfortunate enough to live in Colo.
    Springs now?  I can deal with the digitizing, I think.  Sounds techie,
    though (which I'm sure NOBODY in this conference is      
    
    NOT!)
    
    Mike

re .47

Go ahead an scan your visage in.     Then, someone can collect them all, put
each in about a 3" circle (Via DECwrite or somesuch) and print them all out.
Then they can be used as coasters at the next LERDS BIM.

;^)
/.doug

    We could also have a Colorado Springs BIM too, I suppose.
    
    Greg

    I get out to Colorado Springs on business on a semiregular basis, there
    are at least two of you out there now, right?  To whom shall I provide
    advance warning?
    
    len.
    

    I'd be happy to coordinate it.  Anyone that's interested can send me
    mail and Len can let me know and I'll forward the message on to other
    interested parties.
    
    Greg

    
    You're really brave, Greg...welcoming Edd the Enforcer with open arms
    after slandering his conference...  *8')
    

    Nope, he's welcoming len. Not that you should feel any safer. Uncle len
    will report ALL transgressions....
    
    Edd

Hey  what  a funny conversation! I enjoyed reading some of these replys.
Really. I wish some people would kick  back  and  re-read  their  replys
too... just so you could see how ridiculous you look trying to determine
if this note file is  "elitist".  

                           Hell yah it's elitist!!!

It't ain't ordinary man grappling with words and ideas to talk to  peers
about simple music truths: there's alot of "*I* know this, let *me* tell
you what the deal is" attitude that  pervades  many  of  the  notes  and
replys in the file. Plus examine the subject matter: not everybody has a
coupla thou to drop on the latest gear. A couple  hundred  -  maybe,  in
"ordinary  (music) man"'s case, but unless continuous hands-on access to
new technology, you can't very well talk about it in depth,  constantly,
consistantly,  with  people  in  this  file.  It's becomes extrememly...
elitist... in a sense (although I don't particularly  consider  "you"  a
"small  group of powerful men" (American Heritage Dicitionary). And it's
boring to hear about whiz bang stuff you're  never  going  to  get  into
because of the money thing (or whatever reason). 

For what it's worth, I think it's gotten better tho.

I've admired the incredible  level  of  expertise  available  here  from
ongoing  participants  of  this file. It's awesome. The same is true for
alot of participants in the Guitar notes file... but  there  is  a  more
casual sense about the Guitar file than the Commusic file. 

Egos  abound  and  periodically butt heads in both places, so I discount
that as a matter of course. 

But there's definitely a "white collar"/"blue collar" feel  between  the
two  files.  The  humor  is  different, the contacts are different (take
BIMs, for example, as opposed to the numerous pick-up jams  spawned  out
of [the other file]). A different approach - 
                      - but both valid and useful to have around.

I intented to post a satirical look at some of the replys to this  note,
but  decided  it  crossed  the  line a little too much. I -can- point to
specific notes and say "see? tell me that "everyman" reading  this  note
wouldn't  cringe  for  shelter  after reading it". I like alot of people
that participate in this file whether they're snobs or not (said  tongue
in  cheek),  so  I  think  it  boils down to who really gives a sh*t? If
you're that "worried about your looks", then  you  probably  do  have  a
problem  coming  across  without  "looking  like a prima donna". If your
attitude is unassuming and helpful, then people respect that,  and  come
seeking your advice. 

Hey,  I  say viva-la-difference. (See? I couldn't say that in the Guitar
notes file! There I'd have to say: "both are pissuh!")

				:-)

By the way, it was -my- idea in the Guitar notes file to have an online
notebook of scanned-in pictures of the noters. i thought it was a great 
idea. I offered to organize it, etc, after having scanned in thouse
pictures of Buckley, Rost, Rene, me, but you know  how many repsonses
I got...? how many actual photos people sent me to scan in to make
the notebook happen????

None. 
Zero.
Nada.

There is no such thing existing.

What will probably happen is that Commusic noters -will- respond with
photos to kwhoever organizes it here, and it -will- be fun to see folks
online (and of course, know people at the BIMs by sight!). You guys'll
probably make that fly...

Maybe nothing you can put your finger on, but there are differences.

    "Commusic is elitist!"
    
    					"Is not!"
    
    "Is so!"
    
    					"Is not!"
    
    "So! So! So!"
    
    					"Not! Not! Not!"
    
    			<sigh>  ;^)
    
    Steve

    re .54 - .55: spoken like a drummer, as it could only be.
    
    len (also a drummer, so I can get away with this).
     

At a certain music store a certain salesman once told me 
that this store in the chain had the second largest volume/
income and that he thought the clientel to be "smarter" or
more "savvy" than the other more selling store where most
of the customers (at the other store) bought more guitars...

:-) :-) :-) :-)
Chad

    
    re: .58 - i thought you were on a snowtire?

    I think there's a difference between a notesfile made up of the "elite"
    and an "elitist" notesfile.
    
    ;-)

    
    
    re -.1
    
      Well said, Dave.
    
    RichC
    

FYI-

The GUITAR notes conference photo album idea came from the HEAVY_METAL 
notes photo album.  Since the H_M and Photo album, we've also started a
video tape from another conference I'm active in - DECtrail (Dirt Bike Folks).
The video concept is pretty neat, me thinks.

Anyway, RE: the photo album, this is what we did:

1.  Went out and bought a cheap album. 

2.  I added a note to the conference that said "Send me pictures of 
    you in your natural habitat" (i.e. With your guitar, live shots,
    in your basement with your 4 track.

3.  Greg and I sat down and made up some rude "Captions"...Okay, maybe not
    rude, but we tried to be humorous.  :)

4.  Pasted in about 20 pages of pix of conference participants jammin'
    on stage, sitting in the living room with their favorite Martin D45
    or pride_n_joy LesPaul, or whatever we had available.

5.  I went thru GUITAR magazine and cut out a bunch of ads, humorous headlines
    etc...and tried to "collage" the pages.

Things we tried to accomplish were to:

1.  Put a face with a node/username.

2.  Show off all of our favorite gear.

3.  Make it entertaining to see.

After it was completed, it was sent to Mass (from Colorado).  I beleive it's 
since gone to South Carolina.  We send it USmail - btw.  As it goes around,
more and more pictures get added.

I think we've found it worthwhile...and it was FUN to do !!
jc

    yeah but keyboard players are so ugly that they have to hide behind
    those racks of synths!
    
    many ;-)'s

    Somebody sample .-1, eh?
    
    ;^)
    
    Edd