Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    Since I never seem to have the time to fully enter a song and since I'm
    interested in fidgeting around with bizarro arrangements of cover
    tunes, I finally relented and bought some sequences.  I decided to try
    the Music Data Company's MIDI sequences as a shot in the dark (i.e., no
    heavy market research).
    
    I chose to start with tunes that I'd love to play and fidget with:
    
    Abbey Road Super Special (a 7 song set of Beatle's songs featuring the
    	2nd side of the Abbey Road album) at $79.95 containing:
    
    	Here Comes the Sun, Because (the Sky is Blue), You Never		
    	Give me You Money, She Came in Through the Bathroom Window, Golden
    	Slumbers, Carry that Weight, The End
    
    Revolution (also by the Beatles).  The normal single-song price is
    	$19.95 each (though quantity pricing is available starting at 5
    	songs for approx. $17.99 each.  I got this one free, however, since
    	a flyer I got in the mail (as a Passport Design products owner) is
    	offering 1 free song with a purchase in October.
    
    A drawback is that shipping is a minimum of $7 so it hardly makes sense
    to make a small order.  (I'm spoiled by the $3 shipping fee charged by
    many Macintosh mail order places.)
    
    I haven't tried the sequences out yet but I'll report here when I do. 
    Has anyone else here tried these sequences as a basis for gigging
    support or general noodling around?
    
    - John -

    Standard Setup for Music Data Company sequences (gleaned from the
    documentation):
    
    Track	Channel		Instrument (guideline, varies with song)
    =====	=======		==========
    
    1		1		Main Vocal (usable as an extra track if you
    					sing it)
    2		2		Bass
    3		3		Main Keyboard - Pianos, Rhodes
    4		4		Keyboard 2 - Clavs, Bells, Organs, FMs
    5		5		Rhythm Guitar
    6		6		Guitar 1 - Leads, solos, misc. synths
    7		7		Background Pads - Synths, Strings
    8		8		Horns/Brass
    9		9		Vocals, background, pads, other
    10		10		Drums (with Roland MT-32 note assignments)
    11		11		( Extra Track )
    12		12		( Extra Track )
    13		13		( Extra Track )
    14		14		( Extra Track )
    15		15		( Extra Track )
    16		16		( Extra Track )
    
    The sequences seem to be distributed in Standard MIDI-File Format (but
    the newsletter in the box claims they're also shipping Roland MRC and
    Super MRC format, too).
    
    Each track name describes the instrument, MIDI channel, and MT-32
    program number as reminders.
    
    The documentation claims that these sequences can be played "right out
    of the box" on a Roland MT-32 or compatible synthesizer.  Since I don't
    have anything that allows really easy changes of drum machine note
    numbers, I'm looking forward to the thrill of modifying the drum track
    to match the drum sounds I do have.
    
    At any rate, if anyone in the general LERDS-BIM area has an MT-32 or
    compatible (mentioned elsewhere is a list of MT-32, U-220, D-110,
    CM-32L, and CM-64 series of Roland gear) and wants to hear what these
    sound like "out of the box", perhaps I could convince myself to clean
    the house enough to allow a post-BIM trek to give it a group listen. 
    (Sequence-o-rama instead of the Reverb-o-rama?)  That way, we could
    also have impressions from more ears without everyone having to spend
    the money.
    
    More later.  Thanks for bearing with these fast and furious start-up
    notes.
    
    - John -

I haven't tried them, because they seem to be the most expensive 
sequence house (by far). Their song list is also not as current as the 
two places I buy sequences from, and their catalog is smaller.

I've had the best luck with Trycho Tunes and Tran Tracks. (I think 
Trycho does the hottest sequencing work anywhere - the drums are 
excellent, very natural sounding - not mechanical at all.)

My opinion....

-Dan

>I've had the best luck with Trycho Tunes and Tran Tracks. (I think 
>Trycho does the hottest sequencing work anywhere - the drums are 
>excellent, very natural sounding - not mechanical at all.)

Dan, could you give details, preferably in a new topic so we don't get all
mixed up, please?

I bought a couple of these at the Passport stand at MacWorld where they were
been heavily promoted and discounted. One jazz and one classical; I figured 
that this would cover enough ground to see if they were worth the money and
effort.

Documentation: either they use a different definition of the term or I was
done! I don't call a small (A5 folded or so) piece of glossy paper 
documentation. No list of instruments ("brass" covers many possibilities!)
and no real guidelines. I give 1 out of ten.

Armed with the MT32-to-D110 conversion chart provided elsewhere in this
conference (thank you, whoever you are!), I started to load something jazzy (I
think it was "A train...") into Concertware+MIDI V5.0 (you gotta start
somewhere) and listened to it. Well, I thought, this is going to take a lot of
effort... It sounded appalling! So I tried again with some Bach. Ho hum.

I suspect that they are using more tracks than they list in the "documentation"
judging by the sounds I heard! CW+ can only handle 8 voices, so until I move up
to something better, I'm not going further. (I'll be getting one of Passport's
programs, demoed at MacWorld but I can't remember which one right now!) 

So, for now, I give them a thumbs down, I'm afraid.

Gavin

    I've heard lots of Tran-traks and Trycho Tune sequences, and for the most
    part they seem OK, especially if you know what it is you're shooting
    for in the first place.
    
    "Brass" covers lots of ground, from slow, swelling brass pads to fast
    attack, bright full horn sections. Not knowing which one can make alot
    of difference.
    
    Some tweaking is usually needed, but it's a minor amount compared to the
    600:1 R&D/recorded sequence time that's fairly common...
    
    Edd

    I've also used Tran Tracks sequences, and found them pretty palatable.
    They actually do more than just say "Brass". Most of the time they'll
    say things like "Soft Brass", "High Brass", "Brass Pad", etc. You still
    have to play around a fair amount on your equipment to get the sounds
    right, but frankly I'd just as soon do that anyway. I use a lot of
    custom patches that are better than the presets and I'd rather nmot
    have someone else deciding for me what things should sound like on my
    equipment.
    
    I've recently solicited catalogues from about 6 other places that are
    selling sequences. They all seem to have pretty similar lists, and are
    priced about the same (typically around $15, coming down to around $10
    if you buy more than 5 or 10). There is one guy here in Boston who is
    doing this on a smaller scale who you could probably get a better deal
    from (he seems flexible). He has a lot of what he calls "rhythm tracks"
    - piano, bass and drums. A lot of jazz standards, lounge type stuff. If
    anyone is interested I'll get his number.
    
    For my taste all of these things are too high priced. I understand that
    a lot goes into putting these things together, but when I can slap a
    sequence together myself in a few hours I'm not about to go out and pay
    this kind of money to acquire this stuff. You're talking about
    something like $500 to put together enough material to perform. I think
    there'd be a much better market if they came down to around $5 per
    song, I'd buy some in a flash. But then maybe I'm not the typical
    customer. I guess if you're not handy at sequencing yourself it is
    probably worth the investment.
    
    - Ram

    Re: pricing
    
    I've been doing custom sequencing and the thought of doing it for
    $15 sends chills up my spine!!
    
    Obviously volume sales can make up for some of it, but I figure
    the market's pretty limited. A typical song can take me 40 hours
    not including piano....
    
    Edd

re           <<< Note 2470.7 by WEFXEM::COTE "Light, sweet, crude..." >>>

>    Re: pricing
    
>    I've been doing custom sequencing and the thought of doing it for
>    $15 sends chills up my spine!!

	Not only that, but its a thing for which I'd guess the ole 
time window is kinda limited.  JATC (just around the corner) are the 
higher level comp tools... band_in_a_box - PLUS   and ++, etc. that 
will just  "generate"  this stuff, no more note level sequencing, it 
might not even be available on the next generation of  "sequencers" 
(-:

	Really, RSN, watch this space, etc.

>	Not only that, but its a thing for which I'd guess the ole 
>time window is kinda limited.  JATC (just around the corner) are the 
>higher level comp tools... band_in_a_box - PLUS   and ++, etc. that 
>will just  "generate"  this stuff, no more note level sequencing, it 
>might not even be available on the next generation of  "sequencers" 
    
    Not to be a killjoy, but doesn't Band in a Box just do simple backing
    arrangements?  I.e. no lead line and certainly no attempts at
    note-for-note versions of T40 stuff, which is what these houses are
    dealing in.
    
    I'm sure that pro level sequencers will continue to offer full control
    for some time.  Auto-generating packages will cater more to the low-end
    crowd.  Check out the Roland Autoarranger gear (RA-50, etc.) these
    boxes are marketed for home/amateur use, not for pro applications.
    
    
    						Brian

re               <<< Note 2470.9 by AQUA::ROST "She moves me, man" >>>

    
>    Not to be a killjoy, but doesn't Band in a Box just do simple backing
>    arrangements?  I.e. no lead line and certainly no attempts at
>    note-for-note versions of T40 stuff, which is what these houses are
>    dealing in.
 
	right,   today thats what it does - and you can get it to give 
you a midi sequence of that accompaniment, for further editing, 
whatever.  I was wishdreaming that biab+ or biab++ might  have a  
"take it away"  facility in the not too distant future.

>    I'm sure that pro level sequencers will continue to offer full control
>    for some time.  Auto-generating packages will cater more to the low-end
>    crowd.  Check out the Roland Autoarranger gear (RA-50, etc.) these
>    boxes are marketed for home/amateur use, not for pro applications.

	As in our own industry the features/functions/performance 
moves from the high end to the middle then the low end, ultimately the 
dump.  Today's pro sequencer is tomorrow's side kick, today's proteus 
is tomorrow's ARP, etc.  They'll take off more  "knobs, lights and
switches"  every year  -  even from the "pro" gear.  A few years from 
now I doubt that even pros will want to be fiddling around for n hours 
with sequences, there will be higher level "tools" for them to use.

	R

    re .10 - Hiya, Reg ! - karl

    
    
    Well at 15$ a time or even 5$ or probably even 0$ a time I can share
    with anyone, in std MIDI format all the sequences we use in the Band...
    
    We are up to about 50 tunes now...
    
    A couple of Peekay originals as well...
    
    Mostly MOR and sixties stuff...
                               
    Natural Born Boogie anyone ?
    
    					Paul
    
    

Well, my interest rekindled by this topic, I decided to try again this last
weekend. I loaded up the Kanon and had a listen; almost not bad. There was
no instrument assignment on two of the channels, but harpsichord seemed to
fit the bill. It then sounded reasonable, although I thought I heard an odd
off-note or two...    
    
It seems that they are much better with "simple" music. I'll try again next
weekend with another of the jazz pieces and see what I come up with.

Gavin