Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    A sequencer is a "tapeless" recorder, where data is stored in memory
    instead of on mylar. This gives you the advantage of being able to go
    in and edit the data...
    
    Sequencers can be either S/W based, where you load the file onto your PC
    and it plays via a MIDI interface, or H/W based with the code burnt in
    resulting in a dedicated unit. (Like an MC-500).
    
    Edd

Is music prose available for the IBM world?  That might be what he wants...

Chad

I know of one s/w package that a friend has which seems to be aimed in the
direction I want and claims to understand MIDI.  I'll find out the name of it
tonight and search through the conference to see if there is anything about it
here.

To what extent is MIDI a real standard?  If s/w says it supports MIDI, does
that automatically mean that it will always play the same notes with the same
qualities on all MIDI devices?

Burns

MIDI is a real standard

MIDI is an event protocol

That means the messages are things like note-on, note-off, etc.

The quality off the sound is not related to MIDI at all.  It is the individual
synth's capabilities that define this quality.  It will always play the same
notes with the quality of the given device receiving it.

Chad

ps: :-) :-) :-) of course you should have a Mac or Atari :-) :-) :-)

actually, there is an excellent piece of software called NOtator which fits
the bill to what I understand you are after -- unfortunately, Notator only runs
on the Atari.

    Actually, when I said "quality", I meant stuff like clarinet vs organ
    rather than good vs bad.  I understand you to say that there is a
    "standard" way to say, "Note on, pitch 440, voice 1", but is there a
    standard way to say that you want that to sound like a bell rather than
    a flute?
    
    Also, I'm still interested in any knowledge about Sound Blaster.   And
    the s/w I was talking about is Music Printer Plus.  I'll search around
    and see if I can find anything else in this conference about it.
    
    Continuing thanks from a beginner,
    
    Burns
    

    Hi, Burns,
    
    There are lots of packages available as MIDI starter kits. Check out
    the back of PCMag or leaf through Computer Shopper. Voyetra has a
    relatively inexpensive set-up, e.g. $399 including SGU (sound
    generating unit), sequencer, and interface. CMS sells packages, too.
    
    Sound blaster probably is NOT adequate: not enough voices (how many
    different pitches can I do at once) and not enough timbres (how many
    different sounds, e.g. strings vs voice vs horns) can I do at once.
    There are many SGUs which offer up to 32 voices and 8 timbres (though
    you have to be aware of "multipatches" which eat multiple voices). I'd
    probably look for a SGU with a drum machine. The Rolland U-110 might be
    a good choice. I got (the only) one from Building 19 a few weeks ago,
    for $297. I learned about it being on sale there from this notes file!
    
    When you see a posting for a used SGU (always a good strategy, IMO),
    use this excellently-keyworded notes file to learn about it's
    capabilities. The Want Advertiser is another good source of SGUs.
    
    You should be aware, Burns, that this interest can become a major vice.
    Many of the participants in this notes conference walk a narrow path
    between MIDI and divorce; the rest aren't married. One item leads to
    another. I need more voices, so I'll get another SGU. Oh, oh, now I
    need a mixer. Boy, it would be nice to tape this for my friends, so
    I'll pick up a four-track. Studio monitors are crucial to good mixes.
    With a SAMPLER I could get really creative. My sequencer is bogging
    down, so I need more CPU. and so on.
    
    If you're interested enough to head to Brookline, MA, I have a couple
    feet of magazines related to this topic, collected over the last three
    years. I also have a couple books which explain MIDI, including using C
    to write MIDI librarians (store your voice set-ups) and sequencers.
    
    Have fun! - Hoyt
                    

    As to clarinet versus organ, it all depends on the SGU and not
    necessarily on MIDI.  MIDI does not distinguish between clarinet, organ
    or trombone.  All it does is send info to a particular channel which
    (hopefully) will be understood by an SGU.  As to what the SGU will do
    with it, it all depends on the capabilities of the SGU.  If all it can
    do is, for example, piano sounds, then all you are going to get out of
    it are piano sounds, even if the sequence was written for, for example,
    a saxaphone.  As to quality, if it sounds great on sax, it may sound 
    lousy - or experimental, or "New Age", or whatever you want to call it so 
    as to avoid being embarrassed - on an SGU doing piano, and vice versa. 
    
    Can you use MIDI to port a sound from one SGU to another?  Yes and no.
    There is a MIDI sample dump standard that allows you to port sampled
    sounds from one sampler to another.  Under certain conditions, it is
    possible for the sound quality to be preserved going from one make of
    sampler to another.  But, this usually occurs as a happy surprise,
    depending very much on which samplers are involved.  Usually, the
    sounds do not port between synths.  Certainly not when the SGUs use
    different technologies.  And, often there are still annoying
    limitations when the SGUs involved are based on the same technologies.
    
    Further, you can usually get to the guts of an SGU by sending special
    MIDI messages called system exclusive (or sysex) messages. 
    Manufactureres are free to have these interpreted in many different
    ways, so these messages can have wildly different results (or no
    results at all) depending on how they are implemented.
    
    Steve

    I would like to address one side thing about orchestration: the most
    original effects that some of us admire in the greatest works of
    Western classical music were made by writing incorrectly for a given
    instrument.  Stravinsky wrote too high for the bassoon in Sacre,
    Debussy wrote too low for a flute solo, Beethoven stuck individual
    little burps totally exposed from one instrument to another in the 5th, 
    
    in short original effects on instruments can be made by writing for it
    as though it were some other instrument.  But the musical ideas are of
    prime importance, and not whether it sounds right or pretty 
    superficially all the
    time.
    Tom

    Argh!  I KNEW I'd get in trouble!  I hafta admit that some of my most
    brilliant strokes were by accident.  Sometimes, the "art" is in
    convincing folks that what you put out was EXACTLY what you had in
    mind ...  For example, if you really screw up an ad lib solo, try to
    repeat your screwup.  Folks will be really impressed.  I suspect that
    Munk got his start that way ... ;)
    
    Steve

Well, I'm starting to think seriously about buying hardware (and s/w) now.
I am thinking about

1.  Cakewalk
2.  MusicQuest PC MIDI Card
3.  A D110 or MT32
4.  Some sort of scoring s/w (maybe LMP, for example)

Some questions, if you please:

a.  Given that they seem to be down to the same price now, is there any reason
that a beginner should choose an MT32 over a D110?

b.  The D110 is a rack mount.  Does it need air flow at both bottom and top?
I.e. could it sit on a table?

c.  Is the audio out of the D110 unbalanced, i.e. RCA Plugs that would go into
a standard home stereo system, as opposed to the balanced line stuff used in
broadcasting?

d.  Am I missing major required extras?  (You computer folks know the tricks:
Oh, sure, we'll sell you a computer for $500, but then you need to buy a $200
monitor and $75 worth of cables).

e. Are MIDI cables basically 2 twisted pair that I can build myself?

Fun fun...Thanks for your help.

Burns

    MIDI cables are not twisted pair, the signals are not differential.
    MIDI cables are shielded to contain EMI, however.
    MIDI is current-loop, not RS232C.
    Tom

    I don't know squat about synch and stuff but I do know 
    that MIDI cables aren't twisted pairs (Agagaga, you thought
    you could get around those $10/cable cost eh !)
    
    Also, in guitar notes, we talk about a disease we all have:
    GTS - Guitar Toy Syndrome
    
    It's a dreadful disease that:
    a) makes you read strange magazines
    b) makes you spend LOTS of money
    c) makes you lock youself away for HOURS and HOURS
    d) has been known to cause marital stress
    e) at least ALL of the above.
    
    Basically means that once you get the bug, your doomed to spend
    a lot of time and money on new and improved toys.  ;)
    
    "Hi, My name is Jeff Cooper, and I have GTS..."
    
    ;)

>Some questions, if you please:

>a.  Given that they seem to be down to the same price now, is there any reason
>that a beginner should choose an MT32 over a D110?

    Not really.   
    
>b.  The D110 is a rack mount.  Does it need air flow at both bottom and top?
>I.e. could it sit on a table?

    Yes, you can set it on a table.  
    
>c.  Is the audio out of the D110 unbalanced, i.e. RCA Plugs that would go into
>a standard home stereo system, as opposed to the balanced line stuff used in
>broadcasting?

    Yes, it's unbalanced, but all the jacks are 1/4" phone jacks, not RCA.
    There's a stereo output pair, six assignable mono outs (you'd need a
    mixing board to use these) and a stereo headphone jack.
    
>d.  Am I missing major required extras?  (You computer folks know the tricks:
>Oh, sure, we'll sell you a computer for $500, but then you need to buy a $200
>monitor and $75 worth of cables).

    A keyboard?  MIDI cables, you'll only need one unless you want to
    interrogate the D-110, then you'll need two.
     
    
>e. Are MIDI cables basically 2 twisted pair that I can build myself?

    Yes, you can build them yourself, but based on connector prices at
    Radio Shack, you won't save much money, especially on short cables.
    
    							Brian

>    Also, in guitar notes, we talk about a disease we all have:
>    GTS - Guitar Toy Syndrome
    
    We have a similar concept here.  I am the official founder and leader
    of "MIDIholics Anonymous".
    
    	db

Ok, another beginner question:

I've tried to find it in keywords, but not having a good though as to what the
keyword might be...

Is there, somewhere, a repository of MIDI-ized songs in (for example) standard
midi file format for PC? I can only play with one thing at a time, and right
now I am playing with stuff that needs songs as input (playing with patches,
sequencer demos, etc).  And I am getting darn sick of the various Bach 2-part
inventions etc that seem to come with everyone's demo.  (Don't get me wrong...
I *love* Bach, but baroque music does not have much in the way of subtle
dynamics (and probably touch etc) to hear what my FB01 can (or can't ) do.

Thanks,

Burns

BTW, in case it was not obvious, I ended up buying an FB01 and a MusicQuest
PC MIDI interface from Bill Norcott's ad which appeared here recently.  The
price difference seemed to make it worthwhile.

Anyway, I'm quickly beginning to see that I probably do want something to
input with, even though I'm not a great keyboardist (not even mediocre, for
that matter).  I also just missed buying Bill's DH100 MIDI Sax.  That seemed
like a great idea, since I *do* play the clarinet.

Anyway, the next question is:  Is there something available for very little $$
that can be used to input?  I would not need much out of a KB.  Does a cheap
one exist?  (For my idea of cheap, Bill was selling his DH100 for $50).  Anyone
else have a DH100 they would like to get rid of.

Burns

>>> (For my idea of cheap, Bill was selling his DH100 for $50).  Anyone
>>> else have a DH100 they would like to get rid of.
    
    I can't recall whether the DH100 is the silvery, little Casio sax with
    ~4 internal sounds and a MIDI out.  But if it is, then I'm pretty sure
    I've seen them new for $50 or less.  I think they're in the latest 47th
    Street Photo catalog (New York City mail order place).  I also saw one
    at BJ's warehouse store in Westborough, MA for somewhere in the $40-50
    range.
    
    - John -

    Re: .16
    
    Roland has the answer for you.  As part of their new "computer music"
    line, they offer the PC-100 keyboard, 49 keys, with velocity and the
    usual Roland pitch bend lever.  Sam Ash price is under $300.  
    
    BTW, it runs on batteries so the only cord is the MIDI out.  Roland
    claims you can get "months" of playing in on a set of batts, we'll see.
    
    							Brian

    
    
    As a result of churning out the songs for our current gigs I could let
    you have Standard format files of sequences for the style of music we
    are playing which is basically pop/rock with a smattering of Jazz.
    These are produced on atari but should be readable by a PC based
    seuqncer. Just done Level 42's "Lessons in love" which was fun. The
    problem is that the sequences are very reliant on the patches used I
    can't imagine that the Brass stabs in "Lessons" are in the standard
    voice set of the FB01. I could send a cassette with the sequences so
    that you could hear what they sound like.
    
    					Paul. 

re. .16

If you're a clarinettist, you might want to check out the new Yamaha WX11 wind
controller, which I bought a couple of months ago. I'm very pleased with it,
although I'm already thinking in terms of a better SGU than the WT11 tone 
generator that came with it. As a lapsed saxist, it suits me very well.

Chris

I just called 47th St.  They have the DH100 for $43.95, FWIW.

Thanks for the pointer!  Maybe I'll drive down to BJ's sometime too.

Burns

I just got a DH-100 at BJ for 39.99.  It's a funny beast.

Say, can someone explain after-touch as applied to a wind instrument?  Is it
the thing that tells the synth that the note should crescendo or decr... even
though it is not supposed to get another attack?

The DH-100 worked ok through my FB-01, except that the FB01 only picked up the
initial loudness...it never noticed changes after the note started.  There are
some other oddities, but I think they are largely related to that.

Also, it did not notice the portamento key on the DH100.  I guess PORT is a
property of the instrument and not the song, right?

Burns

    The DH-100 sends channel aftertouch.  Yamaha SGUs like to get that kind
    of information as Breath Controller instead.  I can't remember about
    the FB01, but the TX81Z has a setup option where aftertouch will be
    interpreted as BC.  Then the individual voice definitions have to be
    done in a way that BC is paid attention to.
    
    Do hear portamento, make sure the SGUs Portamento Time parameter is
    set to something greater than zero.

    ..also make sure you're patch is set to MONO, not POLY.
    
    Edd