Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    	The list price on the unit is $449, but I have had a dealer
    offer to sell me one when they ship (early Jan) for $390.00.  
    
    Santa Clusters,
    Bill (in MPLS, MN)

    It's going for list: $450.
    
    They can easily sell all the units they can get in, so there's no
    reason for them to discount it.
    
    However, in my opinion, it is by far the best drum machine you can
    get for that amount of money (and probably a lot more) anyway.
    
    Now, it seems reasonable to assume that once the initial demand
    has cooled off, and production has been geared up to match the
    demand that they may start discounting the unit.
    
    The EU salesman I talked to did say that Alesis may be raising the
    price on it, and they may offset any discounting that happens.
    
    Now obviously you gotta take that with a grain of salt.  First,
    it's an EU salesman.  EU has had a shady past, although I sense
    that under the new management things are MUCH different.
    
    According to the salesman, 
    
    1) Alesis deliberately underpriced the unit
       because they thought at the time that they needed to do that in
       order to get the important initial foothold in the market.  They
       had no idea how hot the machine was gonna be, they also thought
       there'd be more competition than there turned out to be.  Remember 
       that this thing was announced well before it was available.
    
    2) The price of most of the competition has been inflated due
       to the weakness of the dollar and the trade deficit with Japan.

       Alesis is an American company and the HR-16 is made here.

    I decided that whether I believed this or not didn't matter much.
    It's an excellent machine at that price and the price isn't likely
    to go down soon, if at all.
    
    	db

    
    	You can call East Coast Sound at 203-748-2799 and ask for Reed.
    They are offering a $50.00 discount if you send in $50 in advance.
    The quoted price I got was $399.00, (after the discount). 
    
    	You can also call Profound Sound and ask for Shane. Rumor has
    it that they are also offering it for around $400.00 .  
    
    	
    

    
    	OOPS! I forgot to list the phone number of Profound Sound.
    And the number is: 1-800-637-6863.
    
    

    Thanks for the numbers.  $400 is the best price I've seen so far.

    Not intended as a slam of Profound but they charge sales tax....
                                                   
    so East Coast sound ends up being about $20 cheaper....
    
    dave

    ...stopped at Union Music Friday. They're getting $449. I'm not
    impressed. Add tax and your talking almost $475....
    
    Does anyone know what Lasalle or any of the Boston stores are asking?
    
    Edd

    Wurlitzers wants $449 (p[lus tax, I assume...)
    
    	- Rick
    

	Gee, I just got some equipment from good ole Shane and they didn't 
charge me sales tax...

    Hmm maybe Kansas has a reciprical agreement with Maine....maybe
    they made a mistake...I know Maine is very radical about sales tax
    evasion...I believe it's a felony if they catch you...they were
    talking about getting out of state loan records to help them assess
    "use tax", just another form of slaes tax, only on items bought in
    tax free zones...like NH or possibly the Shannon duty free shop etc...
                                   
    I got charged $20 tax + $5 for shipping on my mvII so I bought the
    HR-16 from East coast sound as they're getting $399 + $6 shipping,
    delivery expected within 3 weeks...hopefully sooner... 
                                                                          
    Edd mail order isn't that bad...and it's cheaper than anything else
    I've found...
    
    dave
    

    Grrr...
    
    I was mistakenly under the assumption that the HR-16 *listed* for
    $395, and that nobody would be discounting such a hot item for a
    few months at least, so I found a store that didn't have a demo
    unit (yet) and got to be the first one on their list...
    
    Now I find that I can pay $449+ or get at the end of an increasingly
    long list. Damn.
    
    I'll buy the 'verb MO. 
    
    BTW - Union was sonormal? Are these units generally available
    NOW?
    
    Edd
    shipping more. I
    
    

    I just called Lassalle's in Boston; they say they aren't coming
    out 'til January 12.  Then I called EU Wurlitzer and they say that
    the HR-16 will 'definitely be in before Christmas' - I guess that
    means they expect 'em in within 72 hours?!
    
    -Jim

    Sheesh!!!
    
    I talked to EU's about 10 minutes ago and they said that the order
    has been delayed.  It was stated explicitly, but it was clear from
    the context that there was no way they'd be in before Xmas.
    
    EU claims that they cut some kind of deal with Alesis and are promised
    to get the first units to get to this area.  They said the order
    is for about 40 units, 33 of which have been 'spoken for' already.
    
    They're selling them for $449 (list) but my experience tells me
    that until these places actually have a unit to sell, all this
    stuff about prices should be taken with a grain of salt.
    
    	db

    According to my local dealer they've been getting the run around
    from Alesis and don't actually expect to receive any until well
    into January....
       
    dave

    Well,
      It's after Xmas, let's see how long it takes *now* until those
    HR-16's start rolling in ... !
    
    -Jim

    please, Lord, let 3/4 of all the COMMUSICians receive their HR-16's
    or COMMUSIC IV will never get off the ground !
    
    .. of course all their percussion tracks will sound quite similar,
    but that's okay, 3/4 of them own DX7s, too ..
    
    ( LOTS of SMILEY FACES you humourless sods )
    
    karl (still on vacation)

    Yo Karl, ol' friend, ol' buddy, ol' pal o' mine....
    
    Why the big CM-IV push??? Have you bought stock in Maxell??
    
    May your pool freeze.
    
    :^)
    
    dd

    "sod?"
    
    is that code?
    
    rknron::ross
    

    
    So where are all these discarded drum machines gonna go????
    
    I have visions of TR-505s, RX-21s and RZ-1s at $99.95/B.O.
    
    8^)   8^)   8^)   8^)   8^)   8^)   8^)   8^)
    
    

    Karl,
     My contribution went into the mail last week....however since I
    didn't have my HR-16 yet I had to use a real drummer....
        
    dbII

    Walkin' Won heard the rythym tracks to "Deacon Blues" last week
    at LEDS-BIM. I think he liked it.
    
    Would submitting a cover (even a classy one like Deacon Blues) be
    just tooooooo *tacky* for CM-IV???
    
    Edd

    
    Well the aforementioned drum machines are available in the U.K.
    my local shop had 10 delivered of which 7 were already sold. So
    there are 3 available. I actually played with one for 20 minutes
    or so on the weekend and have to say I was not as overwhelmed as
    I expected to be. Perhaps I was suffering from Hype Tension. I await
    your reviews with interest and patience. Doesn't this situation
    imple that these are not U.S.A. made machines or are Alesis going
    for the pounds whilst the dollar is low.
                                                          

    I believe that they have begun to deliver.
    
    
    Questionfor you midi freeks: When my new HR-16 arrives, I'm going
    to want to convert my TR-707 data stores to the HR-16. Now can I
    just hook MIDI out to MIDI in and do a sys dump (assuming that I've
    assigned the HR-16's sounds according to the 707 note #'s)? Then
    I could save the new sequences to tape via the HR-16 tape port....
    
    just hoping this makes sense...
    
    dbII

RE < Note 1064.23 by BAXTA::BOTTOM_DAVID "a promise your body can't fill" >

	I don't believe a MIDI dump will work, as that implies (correct me if 
I'm wrong) a sys ex transfer - which can't be done from one manufacturer to 
another.

	Depending on how the HR-16 stores songs, you may be able to set the TR 
to play and the HR to record in real-time.  There appears to be a standard
drum note assignment across the manufacturers, and if the HR adhere's to this,
you will be o.k.  When I sold my 707, I did this into my sequencer so that I'd
save all the work I did, and to my delight, when I pumped the drum parts into
the Korg drum module, they were entirely compatible.

	Dan

    Dan is correct that a sysex dump won't work.  (Bummer).
    
    The only way to do it is in real time.  (Or get a computer, and
    hack it yourself).
    
    Steph
    

    re .21 - covers better be allowed for CMIV, that's all I've got;
    after all, I did my original thing for CMIII.
    
    re .23-.25 - right, you can't do a bulk data dump from one machine
    to the next, the sysex formats are (almost certainly) incompatible.
    
    However, you may not even be able to transfer the data in real time
    by sending the MIDI OUT of the -707 to the MIDI IN of the HR-16;
    707s, at least, cannot be "programmed" (i.e., have their sequencer
    loaded) from the MIDI IN - you can only do it from the buttons.
    A 707 can *play* data received over the MIDI IN, but it cannot *record*
    such data.  I don't know if the HR-16 suffers from a similar feature.
    
    len.
    

    The RX-21 has the same 'feature'. No program via MIDI...
    
    Edd

    
    	My order went in over a week ago, (I've been on Holiday). I
    was charged $395.00 and the unit is expected to be shipped C.O.D.
    sometime during the second week of January, which translates to
    third or fourth week in reality. 
    
    	Since my local Dealer, (questionable Sleeze), can't promise
    one before late Feburary, I went with Profound Sound. They didn't
    charge any Sales tax, (please forgive me father for I have taken
    a Cheap Shot)

RE: .27 (day=3, smokes=0)

    Congrats, Edd.  Keep on quitting ...

RE: Dave B.

    I'm gonna be going thru the same thing real soon now.  Surely with all
    these boz- er, COMMUSIC'ers up there, you ought to be able to scarf a
    QXmumble for a few days, no?  Or maybe even an MC500?  Hmmm? 

    Finally, if the Alesis IS programmable via MIDI in, do a key assign and
    go 707 => Alesis at a high tempo rate - shouldn't take too long ... 

brad_the_hopeful

    Late Febuary?!  This is getting to look more and more like Vaporware
    - VaporMachine!
    
    -Jim

    I spoke with Reid down at East Coast sound yesteday and vaporware
    may be it....Alesis is telling them this week (sound familiar? check's
    in the mail ...) that as soon as all the dealerships have demo units
    they'll begin volume shipments....when I mentioned that theyt seem
    to be in stock in England he was quite upset and was planning on
    calling Alesis as soon as he could get me off the phone...of course
    Alesis promised them their first shipment before the new year....
    
    re: midi in...well I certainly hope it programs via midi in or I'm
    gonna lose a bunch of stuff...or I could just sequence the HR-16
    off the 707 using midi and record a bunch of drum tracks for future
    use....
    
    
    dbII

    My Sequential Circuits DRUMTRAKS programs via Midi ... I use my
    DX-7 keyboard to do most of my drum-pattern recording...and that
    drum machine came out several years ago.  I'd think the HR-16 (when/if
    it ever is available) would record over MIDI as well ...
    
    -Jim

>        Late Febuary?!  This is getting to look more and more like Vaporware
>    - VaporMachine!
    
    Nope, picked mine up yesterday from EUW in Boston.  
    
    It's real.
    
    	db

    I hate you.... 
    
    ;^)
    
    Edd

    I've called Lasalles, Boston, and Music Workshop, Salem, NH - still
    not in!  One store said, 'Oh yeah, we have *two* alloted to us'!
    What is Alesis up to?!
    
    -Jim

    Wurly-Worcester doesn't even have a demo yet!
    
    Edd

Wurly-Worcester confirmed over the phone that 40 HR-16 units have been shipped
to the Wurly store chain. Eddie Fritz thinks the Worcester store will have 10-20
units within 2 weeks. I'm not sure how many have been pre-purchased. I think he
said 5-6.

do

Dave -

Nice review. Here are some questions:

1. Is the tempo variable within a song? Within a pattern? Does the tempo
   variation take place instantly, or is it gradual (ritardando)?

2. Could you give more information about the display. How many characters wide?
   2 rows? Backlit? LCD or LED?

3. Could you describe the front panel controls and back panel connector jacks
   in more detail. I have not seen one in this area. Where did you get yours?
   Does anyone know of a store that has them in stock, or a demo unit in the
   Worcester/Framingham area?

4. What are the control parameters provided for the 2 special outputs? Does
   the assignment of an instrument to a special output remove it from the
   normal stereo mix? Affect panning?

5. Would you mind listing the voices set again and rating each one? Is each
   voice variable for tuning, decay, and volume?

6. What are the step mode note editing parameters? Decay? Tuning? Volume?

thanks,

Dave

>1. Is the tempo variable within a song? Within a pattern? Does the tempo
>   variation take place instantly, or is it gradual (ritardando)?
    
    As I said, tempo changes are steps within a song.  Tempo is not
    stored with patterns.  The tempo change takes place instantly.

>2. Could you give more information about the display. How many characters wide?
>   2 rows? Backlit? LCD or LED?
    
    It's a backlit LCD.  It's about 2x24 or so.  I don't know exactly
    and the manual does not give specs (boo!!!)

>3. Could you describe the front panel controls and back panel connector jacks
>   in more detail. I have not seen one in this area. Where did you get yours?

    I got mine at EU Wurlitzer in Boston.  They told me they were promised
    the first 40 units in New England.  I have to conclude that was
    for real.  I got onto the waiting list early enough to get in on
    that first 40.
    
    Rear panel outputs:
    	2 sets of stereo outputs
    	MIDI IN and OUT
    	Tape IN and OUT
 	Start/stop external control
    	Power supply in and out 
    
    		note, the HR-16 gets negative points for having one
    		of those wall bug type power supplies.  These do not
    		fit in will on multi-outlet power strips.
    
    Front (top) panel stuff:
    
    I don't think I have the time to go into detail here.  It's got
    a whole lot of buttons and two sliders: one overall volume, the
    other selects the various functions in a menu
    
    
>   Does anyone know of a store that has them in stock, or a demo unit in the
>   Worcester/Framingham area?
    
    EUW Wurlitzer in Boston and Dave Blickstein in Hudson, NH both have
    units available for demo.  However neither are willing to sell the
    demo unit.

4. What are the control parameters provided for the 2 special outputs? Does
   the assignment of an instrument to a special output remove it from the
   normal stereo mix? Affect panning?
    
    OK, there's actually two sets of stereo outputs.  Each pad can be
    assigned to one of the sets of outputs and can be panned between
    L and R.  The idea is that you use one set to do the normal stereo
    field and you use the other as special sends to effects for individual
    instruments (by panning them hard to each side).

5. Would you mind listing the voices set again and rating each one? Is each
   voice variable for tuning, decay, and volume?

    You'd best get a listen for yourself but I will list them:
    
    	1.  24" Power Kick
    	2.  22" Deep Kick
    	3.  22" Power Kick
    	4.  20" Swift Kick (just what my music needs - a swift kick)
    	5.  22" Dbl Head Kick A
    	6.  22" Dbl Head Kick B
    	7.  60's Kick
    	8.  22" Gated Kick
    	9.  Electronic Kick 1
    	10. Electronic Kick 2
    	11. 8"x14" Wood Snare
    	12. Ambient Wood Snare
    	13. 13" Bass Picolo
    	14. Gated Snare			(Yay!!!)
    	15. Electronic Snare
    	16. Rimshot Snare
    	17. Side stick Snare
    	18. Brush Hit Snare
    	19. 10" Power Tom
    	20. 16" Power Tom
    	21. 16" Dbl Head Tom
    	22. 14" Dbl Head Tom
    	23. Electronic Tom
    	24. Closed HiHat A
        25. Closed HiHat B
        26. Half Open HiHat 	  (Yay!!!)
    	27. Open HiHat
    	28. Foot Closed HiHat	  (Yay!!!)
    	29. Ride Cymbal
    	30. Ride Cymbal Bell      (Yay!!!!)
    	31. Crash Cymbal
    	32. Timbale
    	33. High Conga Slap
    	34. Low  Conga Slap
    	35. Small Wood Block
    	36. Large Wood Block
    	37. Rosewood Claves
	38. Cabasa
    	39. Maracas A
    	40. Maracas B
     	41. Shaker
    	42. Agogo Bell
    	43. Medium Cow Bell
    	44. Large  Cow Bell
    	45. Triangle
    	46. Tambourine
    	47. Hand Claps
    	48. Finger Snaps		(Yay!!!)
    	49. Drum Sticks			(Yay!!!)
    
    
    				NOTE
    
    		Future and potential HR-16 owners should save this
    		list.  The manual does not give you a numbered list
    		like this and it is very handy if not essential to
    		have (allows you to see what you have available as
    		well as being able to select it using the numeric pad
    		rather than the slider which is very sensitive for
    		choosing sounds because there are so many of them).
    
>6. What are the step mode note editing parameters? Decay? Tuning? Volume?
    
    Velocity only.  Tuning is a function of the pad which is a function
    of the pattern.  No drum machine I know of pays attention to note
    duration.

	db

    p.s.  I may incorporate all this stuff into a revised version of
          the review at some point.

>>6. What are the step mode note editing parameters? Decay? Tuning? Volume?
>    
>    Velocity only.  Tuning is a function of the pad which is a function
>    of the pattern.  No drum machine I know of pays attention to note
>    duration.

The Korg DDD-5 allows you to go back and edit a pattern in step mode, and
vary the instrument decay (not note duration), tuning, and velocity (volume)
of each instrument note. Thus, you punch in the bass notes, all tuned to the
same pitch, then you go back in step mode and edit the tuning of each note
to get the bass line. The decay edit allows you to do things like gradually
open or close a hihat as it is being played, or damp a crash cymbal.

Dave

    Ahhh, I thought you meant the interval between the MIDI note on and
    note off.  Presumably that's how the DDD-1 translates the 'decay'
    into MIDI?
    
    	db

    re: .34, .35
    
>   Review, review!!!
    
    OK, I didn't get to even open the box until Saturday.  Here's a
    quick review based largely on a reading of the manual and about
    an hour of fooling around with it and jamming to the songs that
    came with it.
    
    Specifications:
    
    	16 pads
    	16 voices
    	99 patterns
    	100 songs (each song can have 255 steps, there is no 'repeat
    		   step feature)
    	49 builtin sounds (48 percussion sounds plus assignable click)
        Resolution is to 1/384 note (that's quite high)
        Tempo range: 20 beats per minute to 200 bpm (My RZ goes to 250 bpm)
	8 levels of dynamics (8 levels of MIDI velocity)
!   	2xn (where n is approx. 20) backlit LCD display
    
!   Rear panel inputs/outputs:
!   	2 sets of stereo outputs
!   	MIDI IN and OUT
!   	Tape IN and OUT
!	Start/stop external control
!   	Power supply in
    

    Don't have any size or weight specs handy, but it is the smallest
    high quality machine I have seen and it is almost unusually light.
    I initially thought the box might be empty (vaporware indeed).
    
    The manual is quite good.  Short (27 pages), precise and easily
    understood.  Took me all of about 30 minutes to know everything
    there is to know.   Interestingly, the HR-16 and MMT-8 manuals have
    been combined into one stapled book, so if you're really curious
    you can read about the MMT-8 as well.
    
    The following comments are based on notes I took while I was reading
    the manual.  They may not be in any logical ordsr, and I've general
    confined the descriptions to features that I felt were of most interest
    and might not be common among drum machines.
    
    PADS
    
    There are 16 velocity sensitive pads.  The sensitivity of the pads
    can be adjusted to acommodate both heavy and light fingers.  
    When I first started hitting the pads I was dissapointed with the
    sounds and thought I had wasted $450.  The hits just sounded "weak".
    Turns out the default sensitivity is for the Keith Moon's among
    us.  I couldn't hit it hard enough to attain the higher dynamic
    levels without seriously risking my ability to play the keyboards.
    I also have some preconceived notions about how hard you should
    hit a piece of electronics and the default setting was well beyond
    my own limits.
    
    Each pad can be assigned any sound.  You can also "tune" the sound.
!   Each pad also has a "mix" setting. There's are two sets of stereo 
!   outputs.  The pad is assigned to one of the sets of outputs and 
!   can be panned between L and R.  The idea is that you use one set 
!   to do the normal stereo field and you use the other as special 
!   sends to effects for individual instruments (by panning them hard 
!   to each side).

    The sound, tune, and mix of the pads are stored with the pattern.  
    You can also select the MIDI note associated with each pad.
    
    The tuning is really useful.  The thing already has a ton of snare,
    kick, tom, etc sounds, but only one crash and one ride (these take
    the most memory obviously).  By assigning differently tunings to
    several pads, you can make it sound like you got a whole load of
    cymbals, but of course there's no way to do anything like add a
    sizzle, chinese or special purpose cymbal.
    
    Generally speaking there's one "voice" assigned to each pad.  The
    exceptions are the Hi hat pads and the crash pad.
    
    The hi-hat pads (open, partially open and closed) all share one voice,
    This is so you can start with an open hi-hat and close it.  No big
    deal most units have this.
    
    The cymbal pad alternates between two voices.  This is so you can
    hit two crashes in a row and not have the second crash affect the
    sustain of the first one.  I don't know if other machines do this
    but it's a good idea.  Especially for the HR-16 cause unlike every
    other drum machine I've tried, the cymbals don't "cut out" after
    about one second.  They have a fairly long sustain.
    
    
    PATTERNS
    
    Patterns do NOT have a time signature.  Their length is measured
    in beats.  So far as I can tell, the net effect of this is that
    you don't get a louder 'click' on the first beat.
    
    Pattern creation and management is fairly standard but
    there are some nice features which may be somewhat unusual.
    
    The "click" is a voice like any other.  You can have anything you
    want as the click and there are lots of sensible choices (click,
    rim shot, sticks, etc.)
    
    Step mode steps at the current quantum setting.  However, if there
    are several notes within one quantum, you step through those
    individually.   It tells you what pad was played and what the velocity
    level was (as well as where it was within the beat).  You can do
    all the standard things including deleting the sound, or changing
    the velocity (either by hitting the pad again OR by manually typing
    in the desired velocity level).
    
    	(If my ESQ-1 could tell me what notes were at the current
    	 quantum interval I might not be looking for a PC/Sequencer)
    
    One BIG minus in my opinion is that you can NOT step backwards.
    I use that ability regularly with my RZ-1.
    
    You can copy patterns, copy a particularly voice within a pattern
    to another pattern, reassign a voice within a pattern to a different
    pad (sound), you can shift the whole pattern or individual sounds
    forwards or backwards within the pattern (OFFSET key).  You can
    also change the length of the pattern (ho humm), but ahhh, you can
    insert the blank space at the BEGINNING of the pattern as well as
    the end.
    
    Actually, I lied.  You can't "COPY" patterns.  In general the HR-16
    doesn't do "COPY" (songs or patterns) even though they use that
    word.  The "COPY" feature actually "appends".  So if you want to
    create a "COPY" of a pattern, you have to "COPY" to an empty pattern.
    
    Appending is actually is more useful than "COPY" (especially for songs)
    cause you get both "copying" and "appending".  Appending can be
    very useful for building large patterns and songs from smaller patterns
    and songs.  For example, I build a "verse" 'song' and a "Chorus"
    'song' and than use the "copy/append" command to organize the chorus
    and verses according to the requirements of the song.
    
    Dave Bottom hear this: you can program patterns via MIDI.  So hang
    onto your TR-707 stuff until the HR arrives.  If the notes on the
    TR-707 don't match the HR, no problem.  Remember that you can reassign
    the notes associated with each drum pad.
    
    In fact, the MIDI dump feature of the HR-16 isn't just a dumb block
    transfer.  They've implemented SYSEX commands to select, define
    and record patterns that work in any mode (i.e. there is no
    "MIDI load" mode).  
    
    The real time pattern recording is fairly standard.  One nice feature
    is the FILL button which will causes the pads to "repeat" at quantum
    intervals (at fixed dynamics of course).  This is handy for inserting
    drum rolls, etc.
    
    
    SONGS
    
    The only significant thing here is that a step in a song can be
!   a tempo change.  The tempo change occurs instantaneously (no
!   ritardando, etc.)
    
    Other than that, nothing terribly new here, other than the copy vs. append
    distinction.
    
    MIDI
    
    Here's a novel idea.  The MIDI 'program change' command is interpreted
    as 'select pattern' in pattern play mode.   (Yes, you can disable
    this) I.E. Program change 43 causes pattern 43 to get selected.  
    In pattern play mode, selecting a new pattern cause the new pattern 
    to be played after the current pattern is finished playing.
    
    This is handy for those of use who use sequencers with limited memory
    who would like to be able to sequence the drums entirely from the
    sequencer but can't afford the memory that the drums take up.  Instead
    of sequencing each drum note pattern, you can just insert program
    changes at the right place.  It accomplishes the same thing, but
    uses a lot less memory.
    
    Now here's a BIG CHEER.  The unit only has MIDI IN and MIDI OUT
    ports but... you can tell it to merge the IN data with the OUT data!
    What's the value of this, you may ask?
    
    Well, I have an ESQ-1 and I like to program the keyboard parts using
    an external 88 key keyboard, and I want to program the drums on
    the machine but then load the finished drum parts into the sequencer.
    
    Thus input from the sequencer comes from two sources: keyboard and
    drum machine.   My sequencer has only one input.  If I didn't have
    this MERGE feature I'd have to swap MIDI capables depending on what
    I was doing.  Now, I can go keyboard ---> HR-16 ----> sequencer
    and never have to deal with cables.  When I'm programming the sequencer
    from the drum machine I select "MIDI ECHO" (that's what this feature
    is called), otherwise I have MIDI ECHO off.  
    
    I wish my ESQ-1 had this feature (that's the 2nd time I've said
    that I wish the ESQ had an HR feature).  It's even more of a pain
    for programming an ESQ-1 track that will drive an external synth
    but doingthe programming from an external keyboard.  But the explanation
    why would take too long to type in.  Call me if you wanna know why...
    
    Suffice it to say, that this feature saves of lot of cable swapping
    and I think all MIDI devices with input devices (keyboards, drum
    pads, etc.) should have this.
    
    SOUNDS
    
    Here's a list of the sounds and the internal numbers they 
    are assigned:
    
        
    	1.  24" Power Kick
    	2.  22" Deep Kick
    	3.  22" Power Kick
    	4.  20" Swift Kick (just what my music needs - a swift kick)
    	5.  22" Dbl Head Kick A
    	6.  22" Dbl Head Kick B
    	7.  60's Kick
    	8.  22" Gated Kick
    	9.  Electronic Kick 1
    	10. Electronic Kick 2
    	11. 8"x14" Wood Snare
    	12. Ambient Wood Snare
    	13. 13" Bass Picolo
    	14. Gated Snare			(Yay!!!)
    	15. Electronic Snare
    	16. Rimshot Snare
    	17. Side stick Snare
    	18. Brush Hit Snare
    	19. 10" Power Tom
    	20. 16" Power Tom
    	21. 16" Dbl Head Tom
    	22. 14" Dbl Head Tom
    	23. Electronic Tom
    	24. Closed HiHat A
        25. Closed HiHat B
        26. Half Open HiHat 	  (Yay!!!)
    	27. Open HiHat
    	28. Foot Closed HiHat	  (Yay!!!)
    	29. Ride Cymbal
    	30. Ride Cymbal Bell      (Yay!!!!)
    	31. Crash Cymbal
    	32. Timbale
    	33. High Conga Slap
    	34. Low  Conga Slap
    	35. Small Wood Block
    	36. Large Wood Block
    	37. Rosewood Claves
	38. Cabasa
    	39. Maracas A
    	40. Maracas B
     	41. Shaker
    	42. Agogo Bell
    	43. Medium Cow Bell
    	44. Large  Cow Bell
    	45. Triangle
    	46. Tambourine
    	47. Hand Claps
    	48. Finger Snaps		(Yay!!!)
    	49. Drum Sticks			(Yay!!!)
    
    
    				NOTE
    
    		Future and potential HR-16 owners should save this
    		list.  The manual does not give you a numbered list
    		like this and it is very handy if not essential to
    		have (allows you to see what you have available as
    		well as being able to select it using the numeric pad
    		rather than the slider which is very sensitive for
    		choosing sounds because there are so many of them).
    

    
    Well, you know, you start hitting the buttons and it sounds nice,
    maybe even unusually good, but you don't gain any appreciation for
    it until you start playing patterns and hear how things sound together
    and in a pattern.
    
    The unit only comes with 4 builtin songs that I doubt anyone would
    want to use as a demo (they are fairly simple and short), but even
    so, they sound EXTREMELY GOOD to my ears.  You just hear all kinds
    of subtleties that are absent in my RZ-1 and most other drum machines.
    
    I load in a few old patterns from my RZ-1 and BOY what a difference.
    It really sounded like a well recorded drummer to me.  I jammed
    to it for awhile and was in heaven.
    
    It really sounds great!  Very realistic to me.
    
    TIDBITS
    
    Of course, it has a way of dumping data to tape, as well as the
    aforementioned method of dumping data through MIDI.
    
    You can select the clock to be MIDI, INTERNAL, (get this) both
    MIDI and INTERNAL, or tape sync.  They do not describe how to use
    the tape sync.  I get the impression that it uses FSK.
    
    The MIDI & INTERNAL mode is another one of those great ideas whose
    utility may not be immediately evident.  In short, it allows you
    to both drive the drum machine from a sequencer and do things using
    the drum machines sequencer without having to diddle clock settings.
    Again, I don't want to go into an explanation of why this so valuable
    but suffice it to say that I'm forever switching between internal
    and external clock on my RZ.  Perhaps its just a by-product of the
    way I sequence drums.
    
    Yes, it has the "SWING" feature, and Len will be glad to know that
    it is a function of the current quantum setting.  The bad news is
    that the explanation of the swing feature is no better than we are
    used to.

    BAD NEWS
    
    One thing I don't like about the unit is that you often have to
    press combinations of buttons to get things to happen.  The
    combinations tend to be somewhat less than obvious and mnemonic.
    You also have to confirm a number of things (by pressing RECORD)
    that you normally prefer to have it trust you.
    
    It's got a small 2xnn LCD display.  The display is quite visable
    from directly above (perpendicular to the display) and below, but
    dissappears if you stand above the unit.  This is very inconvenient
    for me.  I have to squat to see the display the way I have it set
    up.  I will probably have to disconnect it when I do some
    serious drum programming.
    
    Another gripe I have is that it does not have a headphone plug.
    My usual method of programming a drum track is to amputate the
    machine from my setup, carry it to some convenient desk and use
    headphones.  Without the headphone outlet, I have to setup something
    to monitor what I'm programming (probably my rockman or my 4-track).
    
    You can only use the builtin sounds.  There's nothing in the manual
    or on the unit (no mysterious "AUX" input) that would indicate any 
    provision for expanding the number of sounds.   However, this was
    also true of my Casio RZ-1 and yet there is now a very attractive
    (where it not for the HR-16) upgrade for the RZ-1.  Likewise, it 
    is conceivable that at some point when memory densities are 
    improved significantly, Alesis could offer an upgrade that gives you 
    more sounds.
    
!   The power supply is one of those wall bug things (the power supply
!   is part of the power plug).   I use a multi-outlet power strip
!   to distibute power to my rig and to be able to turn everything on
!   and off with one switch.  Wall bugs hog space and usually prevent
!   you from plugging stuff into adjacent outlets.  What makes this
!   particularly annoying is that you generally need to put wall bugs
!   (or any device with an external power supply) on a power strip 
!   with a switch because that increases the lifetime of the power supply
!   (they use power even if the device is turned off).  In fact, the
!   HR-16 manual recommends that you plug it into a power strip!
    
!   I prefer the kind of power supply that has one cord to the wall
!   outlet, and another cord from the power supply to the unit.  Actually
!   I really prefer integrated power supplies.  I understand that it
!   makes the unit bigger but having to deal with external power supplies
!   is far more inconvenient than bigger units.
    
    OVERALL

    I love it.  I'm not qualified to compare it to other machines.
    Remember, I'm neither a drummer, nor do I have a lot of experience
    programming drum machines.
    
    It's a tremendous improvement over my Casio RZ-1.

    Questions?
    
    	db

                                          
    Two questions:
    	
    	1) how big is the HR-16?
    	
    	2) How big are the pads themselves?
    	
    	3) Can you actually play the pads with sticks, or would that
    	  damage the pads?
    
    Well, okay, THREE questions.
                
    If the pads are reasonable size, and can be "sticked", then this
    sure blows the market for Octapads!

    The unit is surprisingly small, maybe 9 by 11 or so. You could probably
    hit the pads with sticks if your aim is *REAL* good, as they are
    fairly standard drum-machine sized pads, ~1". It wasn't designed
    to be used that way...
    
    Edd

re: .43

The instrument decay is stored with each note in the DDD-5. This info is not
sent out on MIDI. For instance, if you have a crash cymbal with max decay
time at the beginning of a measure, it will play out the complete 1.2 seconds
of the crash, even if the note resolution was 1/32 or HIGH. The instrument
decay is an internal parameter on drum machines (SYSEX).

Dave

    Hmm.  Does this mean that if you want to drive the DDD-5 from a
    sequencer you will have to sacrifice this decay feature?

    	db

If you mean that the sequencer is being used as the clock source only, the
instrument decay will not be affected, since it is stored in the drum machine
patterns. I'm not quite sure I understand the question. You can think of the
sequencer as a "event trigger" clock source. If other MIDI generic information
pertaining to an event is sent from the sequencer, then it must be interpreted
by the slave device. In the case of instrument decay, this information is
system exclusive within the DDD-5, and is therefore stored in the pattern
event table in the DDD-5.

Dave

    I just got mine, but have hardly tried it out (I'll be spending
    alot of time on it tonight, though) ... a couple of questions come
    to mine, esp. since there are no 'specs' in the Manual.  Any idea
    of how much memory (i.e. MIDI 'event' storage) is inside the HR-16's
    sequencer?  Also, can it be run in 'mono' mode, without having to
    pan every drum to the left, that is?  Most stereo-out devices allow
    you to plug into the L side only, and they'll transmit R and L to
    the L side.  Seems (so far) as if HR-16 doesn't.
    
    I'll post some impressions/review type info once I get some time
    on the machine ...
    
    -Jim

I called up Union Music in Worcester at 4pm. I asked if they had an HR-16
demo unit I could check out. They said yes, and that they had one for sale
*IN STOCK*!!!!!!!!!! I made a mad dash for the car, zoomed into Worcester
on 290, flew thru Kelly Sq. and hung a left on Southbridge. There was Union
Music, next to the Coney Island deli. I grabbed the first parking spot and
stuffed the meter full of dimes. I went into the store and became disoriented,
since this was my first time there. It looked small, but has large side rooms
including the synth room which is stuffed full of Ensoniq keyboard goodies and
there was an HR-16 all hooked up. The personnel were very curtious and helpful.
They let me play with it for an hour. Their Fostex monitor speakers don't do
it justice. The kick drums need *BIG* woofers, at least 15". I tried listening
to every sound for defects. I didn't want to buy it since I have a Korg DDD-5
which is loaded with features for only 50 bucks more. Well kids, sell the
Linn Drum (I'm going to, now it's safe). It is missing a few of the step
editing features (see DDD-5 review note), but these drums and percussion are
at *LEAST* as good as my Linn Drum. The ride is excellent. The crash is much
longer than any other drum machine I've tried, perhaps 2 seconds or more.
The "foot closed hihat" and open hihat are the best. The percussion is
great. There isn't one instrument I don't like.
The sounds are *VERY* clean and realistic. It is by far the easiest to program
drum machine I have owned. The EMU drumulator, Linn, and Korg are programming
nightmares compared to this. Turn off the quantize and you get 384th note
resolution. Just punch in the patterns in real time and you wont even need
to use swing. I will try to answer any questions, with Dave B.'s assistance.

re: .50

>    of how much memory (i.e. MIDI 'event' storage) is inside the HR-16's
>    sequencer?

I would guesstimate at least 128k, perhaps 256k of RAM.

>  Also, can it be run in 'mono' mode, without having to
>    pan every drum to the left, that is?  Most stereo-out devices allow
>    you to plug into the L side only, and they'll transmit R and L to
>    the L side.  Seems (so far) as if HR-16 doesn't.

The answer seems to be no. If you are running mono, you could pan every
instrument to CENTER and use either left or right output.
You can save your voice, tune, and mix in a "dummy" pattern, so that you can
recall it later, and copy it to a new pattern that you are working on.

Dave_wondering_will_I_sleep_tonight?_Celtics_played_who?

    Mini-review...
    
    I spent about an hour or so with my HR-16 last night.  One thing
    I discovered: it seems you have to actually record at least one
    drum hit into the pattern before it'll store your 'custom'
    tune/mix/voice parameters.  I set up patterns 97, 98 and 99 as 'demo
    patterns' so I could listen to all 49 voices really easily.
    
    I then turned to my 'ancient' Sequential Circuits DRUMTRAX, which
    is also a digital machine.  I put both thru my mixer, and began
    to manually 'copy' some of my old DRUMTRAX patterns into the HR-16.
    Incredible difference between the two!  The DRUMTRAX sounds so 'dead'
    and 'bland' next to the HR.  I had NO effects on either; the HR
    sounds seem to have plenty of 'room ambience' right in the sample!
    Even thru headphones it has great sound.  Crash does seem to be
    about 2 secs, but ride is much shorter (1 sec?).  Toms much more
    'real' than those on the DRUMTRAX.  Kicks and snares - no comparison!
    Toms and cymbals much cleaner, crisper on HR-16.  About the only
    sound I though didn't sound 'real' was the finger-pops, but how
    often would I use them?!
    
    Programming, copying, erasing (patterns, songs, individual drums)
    very easy.  I found that I could 'learn the feel of the pads' really
    quickly, too.  

    My overall impression is EXCELLENT, or even INCREDIBLE, especially
    when you consider that I paid almost $1K for the Drumtrax.  Definitely
    the best group of drum samples I've heard to date!
    
    -Jim

    I heard some rather bad press on this unit yesterday ... it appears
    that some aliasing noise is very evident on at least 2 of the toms
    (don't recall which). 

    Can someone confirm or deny?  BTW - I just saw one of these in the
    local want ads already.  Good grief.

brad

    Just curious, how much was it in the local want ads??
    
    I can see these thing retailing for $449 and going for $550 on the
    used market....
    
    Edd

	Steve's Quality Instruments in Danver's is advertising the HR16 at
$429.00.

	Dan

    Regarding storing custom tune/mix/voice parameters.
    
    I haven't had that problem.  Are you aware that you have to hit
    RECORD and VOICE to store the voice selections permanently?
    
    As I said in my review, its one of several non-pnemonic button
    combinations you have to remember.  It has a general pitfall
    that certain things get lost if you don't remember to hit RECORD
    and any of several other keys.
    
    	db

>   About the only sound I thought didn't sound 'real' was the finger-pops
>   but how often would I use them?
    
    What a coincidence!  I started working on my first HR-16 drum track
    and the first sound I had to program was fingersnaps.
    
    I had recorded a really GREAT fingersnap sample on my RZ-1 and was
    initially pleasantly surprised to learn that the HR-16 had them
    (the RZ-1 got unplugged and put back in the box), and the unpleasantly
    surprised to learn that the sample wasn't good.
    
    The problem I have with it is that although it does sound like
    fingersnaps, all the snaps are synchorized almost exactly.  It's
    just not the sound I'm looking for.  I'm looking for a sound that
    sounds like a bunch of people snapping to the music, and as such
    they wouldn't all be exactly synchronized.
    
    But I found a workable solution:  I assigned the fingersnaps to
    the crash pad.  Remember that the crash pad alternates between two
    voices so you can have two closely spaced hits that don't interfere
    with each other.  Then I guess you could say I recorded a 'fingersnap
    flam' - that is, I recorded two very closely spaced hits.  I found
    that was acceptable, although still not as good as my RZ sample
    which I may resurrect from its grave (the box) for this purpose.
    
    	db

    RE .56
    
    Yes, I *did* hit RECORD and VOICE to store my voice selections,
    but the pattern was empty (i.e. no rhythm had been programmed into
    it).  I tried this repeatedly, reading the manual several times
    (or at least the relavent parts of the manual).  As soon as I chose
    another pattern then returned to, say, Pattern 99, my voice assignments
    were gone.  When I went into pattern-record mode, hit a single hi-hat,
    then saved my voice assignments, all worked OK...
    
    -Jim - What else could I be doing wrong here?

Dave -

How about assigning the fingersnaps to several of the perc pads with different
tuning and panning on each to simulate a group of people in various positions
of the stereo field. You could try step editing in
some snaps using the various pads/tunings/pannings for successive
notes. You could use your crash pad trick in conjunction with this. Also,
you could assign the crash pad and one perc pad to the special outputs and add
a short delay and reverb to simulate a group on stage in an auditorium or
theatre. How about chorusing using the digital delay, since chorusing is what
you are looking for. This is why a large group of strings or horns sounds so
nice in an orchestra, due to the chorusing of slightly different tuning,
vibrato, and timing, plus position on stage.
 The hand claps sound like a group. The tuning of the snaps, claps,
and tambourine seems to be critical. I think maybe they skimped on these
samples to allow more room for the crash, which I like a lot.

Dave O.

Regarding the saving of voice/tune/mix, the problem is concerning the use
of MANUAL VOICE/TUNE/MIX as described on page 23. With MANUAL off, whatever
drum kit is stored in a pattern is recalled. The empty patterns all contain
the drum kit that came from the factory. With MANUAL on, the currently
assigned pads/drum kit will be used for every pattern. I believe that you
are correct that even if you try to "RECORD" the drum kit in a pattern,
until you actually record an instrument in a pattern, the drum kit does
not get saved. Even pressing RECORD and PLAY in pattern mode, but not
playing any instrument pads does not save the instrument set.

Regarding aliasing on the TOM sounds, I cannot detect any flaws with any
of the sounds. The TOMs are all very clean and clear. There is no digital
noise or aliasing at all. The ELECTRONIC TOM and ELECTRONIC SNARE both have
electronic swishing at the end, but that is typical of Simmon's patches. It
is part of the intentional decay sound. This is not aliasing. I made up
a TOM kit consisting of ELECTRONIC SNARE tuned +15, ELECTRONIC SNARE tuned 0,
and ELECTRONIC TOM tuned 0. They are the same basic sound, just tuned higher.

By the way, the LCD is 2x16.

This is my current drum kit:

Pad:		Voice:			Tune:		Mix:

TOM1		16" floor tom		+5		vol 85 pan 3>
TOM2		electronic tom		 0		vol 85 pan <2
TOM3		electronic snare	 0		vol 85 pan <>
TOM4		electronic snare	+15		vol 85 pan 2>
RIDE		ride cymbal		 0		vol 90 pan 1>
CRASH		crash cymbal		 0		vol 85 pan 2>
PERC1		side stick snare	+1		vol 75 pan <>
PERC2		drum sticks		 0		vol 75 pan <>
KICK		electronic kick1	-5		vol 75 pan 1>
SNARE		ambient wood snare	-1		vol 90 pan <>
CLHIHAT		foot closed hihat	 0		vol 99 pan <2
MIDHIHAT	half open hihat		 0		vol 99 pan <2
OPHIHAT		open hihat		 0		vol 99 pan <2
CLAPS		hand claps		+5		vol 90 pan <>
PERC3		tambourine		-2		vol 75 pan 1>
PERC4		medium cowbell		 0		vol 90 pan <2

I have assigned the drummer (sticks/snare/claps) to center, the hihat
to his left with the cowbell mounted on top. The toms are spread out
left, right center, with the floor tom on his right. The ride and crash
are on the right, hihat on left, kick on right. This should pretty well
match the live drum kit setup.

have fun,

Dave

    re .56 and "non-pnemonic" - time for a vocabulary/spelling lesson
    again?
    
    pneumonic - referring to the lungs
    
    mnemonic - referring to a memory aid
    
    ;^)
    
    len (guardian of the sacred language)
    

    re: .62
    
    In the NOTES etiquette conference it was agreed that replies that
    point out minor mistakes like spelling and typos are a no-no.  The
    feeling is:
    
    	1) They contribute nothing to the discussion
    
    	2) They constitute needless embarressment to the person in error
    
        3) They have the tendency to inhibit people who have interesting
           things to say but happen not to be perfect spellers
    	   or typists.
    
    	4) They are inconsiderate to the majority of readers who have no 
    	   interest in seeing such violaters of the language brought
    	   to justice and may operate over slow network links or 
    	   300 baud terminals.
    
    	5) They waste disk space, computing and network resources and above
    	   all, people's time.
    
    Such errors are often not made out of ignorance, but rather the
    kind of casualness which is entirely appropriate for non-work related
    conferences.
    
    Case in point: if you look at reply 44, which precedes the one
    containing the error you pointed out, you will observe that I used 
    the correct spelling of "mnemonic".   Thus the error I made was simply 
    the kind that happens when you have to type something in a hurry and the 
    "vocabulary/spelling lesson" was not necessary.
    
    Most of us would prefer to not have our occasional lapses in perfection
    be brought to the attention of the public.   If as guardian of the 
    sacred language you feel compelled to point these things, allow me
    to point out that it would be equally effective to do it by mail.
    
    	db (guardian of notes etiquette)

    p.s.  While my tone may seem strong, my intent is only
    	  to convince you that you really should stop doing this.

RE < Note 1064.63 by DREGS::BLICKSTEIN "Dave" >

	Gee, Dave, how many times you gonna enter this reply?

RE < Note 1064.63 by DREGS::BLICKSTEIN "Dave" >

              -< Len, no one here wants their spelling critiqued >-

	And by the way, I don't have a problem with Len's periodic comments on
spelling and language usage...  It's always been obvious to me that they've been
entered with good humor, and (usually) recieved the same way.

	Dan

    Whussa matter, db, spelling errors in the first 2 revs???
    
    :^)
    
    Edd

    re: .64-.66

    Len IS a cool dude.  I'm not questioning his intentions.
        
    I've said my piece.. Let's get back to the topic.

    	db

    Talked to Shane @ Profound last week.  They have 200 coming in this
    week.  70 are already sold.  Price is $395.

    FWIW - the number is 1-800-63-SOUND (637-6863).

    And, if anyone cares, I won my 6th grade spelling bee.

8-}

    Just called.... Shane & boss are at NAMM, won't be back until
    Wednesday.
    
    Woman who answered phone was cheery, helpful and not at all interested
    in selling me anything.
    
    Edd

    Where can one get specs on the HR-16?  Now that I have one, I'm
    curious about its MIDI implementation, some physical specs, memory
    amount, battery life (unless it's always charged, or there is no
    battery!), etc.  I think the HR-16 is the first music product I've
    purchased that had NO specs in the manual!
    
    -Jim

Jim -

I contacted Alesis just now. Here's what I found out...

Alesis
3630 Holdrege Ave.
Los Angeles, CA 90016
(213) 467-8000 (ask for technical info or service dept.)

Memory - 32K RAM (sequencer, etc.), 1 Meg ROM (samples)
Battery - Lithium, 10 year expected life, non-charging
sampling rate - 47khz
frequency response - 40hz-20khz

The current user manual is not the final manual. If you send in your
warranty registration card, you should receive the actual manual in about
1 month. If you do not, contact Alesis by mail. I talked with someone in the
service department, and he had the information immediately, so I am
assuming that it is accurate. He also mentioned that the tape in/out can
be used for tape sync in/out as well as program load/save, selectable in the
utilities mode.

Dave

AAAAAAaaaaaaRRRRRrrrrrGGGGggggggHHHHhhhhhhhhhhh....

I tried to erase the top of a pattern, and it *DIED*. I tried turning it off/on
a number of times. The display has a  " - " and all the LEDS come on, but
it is *DEAD*.

Well, before I return it to Union Music, lets have a look inside, hmmmm...

2 PC boards, one mounted to the top for the controls and display
             one mounted to the bottom with the logic, power supply, connectors

battery - 3.6v TABIRAN inorganic Lithium  TL-5186
1 SC80C31A 40 pin chip in socket
1 ALESIS HR-16 V1.04 A9DB dated 12/16/87 24 pi DIPn, in socket,
         probably a PROM with operational code
1 SONY CXK58256P-12L, 24 pi DIPn in socket
1 TOSHIBA TC74HC574P, 20 pinDIP
1 74HC138N, 16 pin DIP
1 TA135559A S100297 DM3AG RCA ALESIS 68 square pkg,looks proprietary, could
                                                  be the sound engine?
1 MB834000-25-1 32 pin DIP, in socket
1 MB834000-25-2 32 pin DIP, in socket
1 PCM54HP 28 pin DIP, in socket
1 RCA CD4052BE 16 pin DIP
2 LF347N 14 pin DIP
1 LM340T12 3 pin
1 UA7912UC 3 pin
1 UA7805C  3 pin
1 L8725G 8 pin DIP
8 2N4401 3 pin transistors
2 MPS2309 3 pin transistor
1 LM399N 14 pin DIP
1 TOSHIBA 74HC04P 14 pin DIP
various caps and resistors

I've experience infant mortality in new Alesis products before. I had 2 XT
reverbs that both died, one in the middle of a song at a gig at the Marlboro
Country Club. It took out the mixing board with it. Watch out for static
electricity, especially on carpets with stocking feet. I may have zapped it.
Also, keep it covered when not in use. The sliders are wide open to dust
and other contamination. I'll let you know what Union does about this. Back
to the DDD-5 for now. I hope this was just a fluke.

Dave

    I suppose it's a bit too much to ask if another HR-16 owner would
    try to duplicate the failure, yes?
    
    Would be nice to know if it's a design problem...
    
    Puh-leeze, keep us updated...
    
    Edd

I took the unit back to Union. They have a 90% of purchase price refund
policy within 21 days after purchase, something they called a "10% deduction
for restocking"? This means I would lose $45.00. They have to mail it to
Alesis in LA. Ground mail transportation is free and takes 10 days round trip.
Special airmail costs $22.00 and takes 4 days round trip.

I described the problem in detail, which Cliff wrote down. He was a very
pleasant guy, and easy to talk with. I mentioned that a large number of DEC
people are interested in this machine and are being kept informed as to the
outcome. This brings up and interesting problem. One of the main things that
has kept me from buying by mail order is this very problem, after market
customer service. You may save 50 bucks buying thru Profound, but how do
you get it repaired? You will probably have to send it back to Alesis
yourself and pay the postage. More expensive and heavier equipment will
cost more proportionately.

A few words of advice...

1. Always fill out the warranty registration card and mail it in. This way,
   you will get updates, notices, literature, new versions of software and
   manuals, and you cover yourself in cases like mine. Mark of the Unicorn
   sends you a free backup disk (they are copy protected). Roland sends
   you the Roland User's Group magazine. The warranty card postage is usually
   prepaid. I know it's a pain in the a** but if you do it as soon as you find
   it in the box, you can then forget about it for the rest of your life.

2. Always keep the original packaging, plastic bags, accessories, etc. This
   comes in handly for resale and shipping to the factory for repairs.

3. For the HR16 in particular, and any other device which uses these power
   packs...

   Always plug the power pack into the equipment first, then into the wall.
   Always unplug the power pack from the wall before disconnecting from the
   equipment. Use extreme caution not to trip over or pull on the connection
   to the equipment. The HR16 power pack connector is very poorly designed.
   If you plug/unplug it from the unit when the power pack is connected to
   the wall outlet, there is a good chance of destroying both the power
   pack and the HR16. The 9v gets shorted to ground due to the design of the
   connector. Also, always make sure that the power switch is *OFF* when
   connecting or disconnecting the power supply.

Cliff says he will call Alesis and follow thru on finding out why this unit
failed. If he doesn't, I will.

Dave

    Re: 10% Restocking Charge...
    
        Lotsa places try to do this and I think it's bullshit. I've
        effectively got around it this way:  Ask the salesperson LOTS
        of questions. When you hit one he can't answer, tell him you
        really like the unit, but unless he's willing to gaurantee that
        it will do whatever it is he can't tell you, you won't buy it.
        When he balks (he will), tell him you're willing to front the
        full price so you can take it home and try it out *only* if
        he'll waive the 'restocking' charge in writing. 
    
        The Yamaha dealer in Worcester (you know who I mean) buys this
        every time....
    
    Re: Returning
    
        You buy from Union and *they* mail it to Alesis. Someone else
        buys from MailorderCity and they have to send it to Alesis
        direct. Unless the dealer will replace the defective item, I
        see little advantage... Can you get a loaner? That's always
        nice... (Fat chance on an HR-16!!)
    
    Edd

Hi Edd -

Cliff said he would have given me a replacement, but as you say, the next
shipment of HR16s is due in 1 1/2 to 2 weeks, so I should have mine back
by then. I'm hoping that Alesis will be interested enough in these early
returns to do a thorough job of test and repair, and hopefully some
ECO's to improve reliability. Cliff said that they have had very good luck
with the uVERB etc. Therefore, I opted to repair this one rather than wait
for a replacement.

Referring to the previous note where I listed the parts, the MB834000 chips
are 1 MEG masked ROMs so they must contain the samples. Anybody figured
out any of the other parts?

Dave

ps. no butts about it Edd!

    re. .77 Dave Orin
    
    Ah, the power of the E-net!! I stopped at Union last night to buy
    a MIDIVerb. While _________ (the owner) ran to the back room to
    get the 'verb, I bashed around on the HR-16 demo unit. When he came
    back I asked him how they were moving. Picture his face when after
    a couple minutes I told him that he just got the first one he ever
    sold back for repairs!
    
    They're good people down there. The only place I ever saw that let's
    you make an appointment for custom work/upgrades so you can bring
    the piece in on the day it will be worked on rather than leaving
    it there for weeks until they get to it. I like that.
    
    Edd

    Here is a quick rundown of the chips that I recognize.
    
    SC80C31A		- Intel CMOS 8031 8-bit micro-controller. Probably
    			  used to control the keyboard & display.   
    big custom chip	- probably some proprietary 16 bit DSP (Digital
    			  Signal Processor) used for sound processing
    PCM54HP		- 16 bit D/A
    CXK58256P-12L	- 120 nsec. (pretty fast) 32Kbyte DRAM for data
    			  store.
    LF347N		- probably some sort of OP-AMP used for filtering
    LM399N		-    "       "    "   "    "     "   "     "
    LA7912UC		- power regulator (1A -12V) MIDI interface
    LA7805UC		-   "       "     (1A +5V) digital power
    LM340T12		-   "       "     (3A +12V) probably D/A
                                                                     
    I'd be interested in knowing what the clock rate of the 8031 and
    the custom chip are. Sounds like neat hardware, where are the hackers
    anyways.
    
    pcv

    Well, as far as the 80C31 goes, my handbook here indicates a
    clock speed of about 12 MHz, with most instructions being single-cycle.
    The thing only has about 128 bytes of RAM on board and has to access
    an external ROM.  There's also 2 16-bit counters on board.  To
    top it off, last year I wrote a fully-functional DECSIM behavioral
    model for it.  Technical enough?  As I recall, they sell in large
    quantities for a buck and some change.  As a matter of fact, if
    you crack open a VT320, you'll see an 8031 inside.  Even though
    they've been around for a while, they are cost-effective, hairy
    little performers.  One of the nice features about the little beasts
    is that they can do multiplications and divides in four clock cycles.
    The instruction set is not compatible with most of the other Intel
    controllers as it is optimized for controller applications.
    
    Steve
    
    Steve

    
    
    Well, I got my HR-16 Friday night!  Yay!  After being totally
    frustrated trying to get through to Profound last week, I went
    home Friday and got a call from Steve's Quality in Danvers.  I
    think I broke a land speed record getting up there.  As of
    Friday night, they still had two units unaccounted for.  Price
    is $449.  No great deal, but at least I don't have to wait anymore.
    I also bought a Yamaha GC2020 compresser/limiter, and they gave
    me a GREAT deal on this, so it kind of offset the higher price of
    the  Alesis.
    
    Overall, I'm happy with the machine.  Sounds are GREAT.  My one
    complaint is that if you dont want the default sounds, you have
    you have to go through the process of selecting the sounds, tuning
    them, and setting volumes and pans each time you write another
    pattern.  Gets to be a little repetative if you're writing alot
    of patterns.  But listening to it, I think I can live with that
    fault! :^)
    
    Ralph
    
    

>    Overall, I'm happy with the machine.  Sounds are GREAT.  My one
>    complaint is that if you dont want the default sounds, you have
>    you have to go through the process of selecting the sounds, tuning
>    them, and setting volumes and pans each time you write another
>    pattern.  Gets to be a little repetative if you're writing alot
>    of patterns.  
    
    You don't have to do this.  The manual suggests that you create
    an prototype pattern (empty pattern) with the VOICE/TUNE/MIX selections
    you want and then COPY it each time you create a new pattern.
    
    Now there's a slight "gotcha".  We've discovered that it will *NOT*
    actually retain the VOICE/TUNE/MIX settings in a truly 'empty' pattern.
    You have to have at least one note.  So just make a pattern with
    one note, and then erase (pathetically easy thing to do) after
    you COPY it.
    
    I have to admit that my first "suggestion" to Alesis would be to
    allow you to establish your own set of V/T/M settings.
    
    My second suggestion(s) involve step mode.  I guess I'm just having
    a hard time adjusting to the fact that:
    
    	1) I can't step backwards
    
    	2) There's no mode I can set such that each step is exactly
    	   one quantum, regardless of how many notes are in that quantum.
    	   I often "get lost" and have no idea where I am in the pattern.
    
    	3) I would prefer to see the display indicate things in terms
    	   of quantum steps rather than have to figure out that when
      	   it says "48/96" that I'm on (beat) "3".
    
    Maybe it's just that I got too used to the way it was done on my
    RZ-1.
    
    	db
    
    Oh what the hell, here are some other suggestions:
    
    1) It should know about bars and time signatures (I like to have
       the click accented on "1").  Some of us get confused translating
       ESQ-1 bars into HR-16 beats.  My first experiment hooking the
       HR-16 up to the ESQ-1 sequencer resulted in the drums coming
       in double time!  Had to redo all the patterns.
    
    2) The default click interval should be a quarter note (of course
       the HR-16 doesn't know about time signatures so YES, it doesn't
       know from quarter notes either).  Let's say then that it should
       be one click per "beat".
    
    That's enough for now.

    re .81	I thought I'd seen an ad for Steve's in Danvers at $429
    Did you mean $449 with or without sales tax ?

    
    
    Re .83  That was without tax.  Where did you see that ad????
    
    Re .82  I must've overlooked that part.  Thanks for the info.
            I'll try that tonight.
    
    Ralph
    
    

    Finally "heard" an HR-16 this weekend (the Framingham EUWurlitzer
    has finally reopened).  I say "heard" because I could just barely
    hear it over the din of synths and guitars that typifies a musical
    instrument store on Saturday afternoon, and the HR-16 doesn't have
    a headphone output.  What I heard sounded pretty good, but I also
    heard the Roland 626 and it sounded pretty good too.  I'm going
    to give it another shot this evening under hopefully better conditions.
    I have heard people comparing the HR-16 vs. the 626 as "real drums
    vs. cardboard boxes", and that's rather an exaggeration.  Be that
    as it may, the HR-16 has numerous other features to recommend it,
    although the sequencing interface is apparently not one of them.
    (I'll probably get one anyway, and program it from my MC500.)  So
    far no one's mentioned one really neat thing about the HR-16, which
    is its "pop-up" instruction card.
    
    Speaking of MC500s, there's an MC500 Mark II on the way, and it
    will be possible to upgrade the "Mark I" to the II.  Also there's
    some "turbo" (I kid you not; the Roland marketing types have gone
    off the deep end) software coming, that only runs on the Mark II,
    that adds many of the features I asked for in my MC500 review/wishlist
    (see notes 393 and 482).  How about 100000 notes onboard?  Ability
    to move tracks between songs (Hallelujah!!!)?
    
    Roland is also bringing out a whole slew of processing units and
    D-nn series synths (i.e., D-10, D-20, D-30, etc.).  How about a
    programmable parametric EQ unit?
    
    Speaking of D-series synths, I plunked down a big deposit on a D-550.
    Expect a review and "why didn't those idiots ..." in a few months.
                  
    len.
    

    re .83	In Sweet Potato, I think.  What am I doing reading that ?
    Looking for ads is all, the Atari ST is in the same ad., hence my
    interest.

    
    
    RE .87
    
    Any idea where I can get a copy of Sweet Potatoe in the greater?
    Maynard area?
    
    ralph
    
    
    
    

    .85 bombed, guess I'll try again...
    
    I got an HR16 a couple of weeks ago, and here's a quickie review.
    Most of the techical specs and general operation has already been
    covered, so this is just a subjective evaluation.
    
    Things I like about it:
    	The machine *does* sound nice.  Compared to my Yamaha RX15,
        "real drums vs. cardboard" analagy does hold up, but considering
        the difference in sampling rate, it should.  I was especially
        impressed with the toms and the length of the crash cymbals.
     
        The manual is pretty well written, and the pop-up minimanual
        that Len mentioned does come in handy.  
    
    	It's pretty.
    
    Things I'm not crazy about:
    
    	Sequencing is fairly straightforward, but I must echo db's comments
        regarding the inability to step backwards in step-mode pattern
    	editing, and the fact that each beat is divided and displayed
        as "n/96" regardless of the quantize value.  I also miss having
    	stereo headphone jack, but if I really decide I need one, it
	wouldn't be difficult to solder one up.

    	I don't like the angle of view on the display; it's much too
    	narrow for my taste.  Like Dave, when I turned it on for the
	first time, I thought it wasn't working because you see *nothing*
	looking directly down at the display from the top.  Maybe I'm
    	missing something, but it seems to me that it would have been
    	much easier (and cheaper) to just have a piece of clear
	glass/plastic as the window.    	   
    
    	I had a problem with the Start, Stop/Continue, and Record buttons.
    	They seem, at least on my unit, to have too long a throw, and
    	felt "wobbly".  In fact, at one point the Record button got
    	stuck on the side of the hole. Also, I find that I occasionally
    	have to hit these buttons more than once to activate them.
    	I have not had this problem with any of the other buttons, nor
    	with the drum pads.
    
    	Speaking of the pads, I was all ready to flame at Alesis, (hence
    	the "mixed bag" reference in .85) because my TOM1 pad "died" last 
    	night.  No audible output, but it does register in voice-edit
	mode, and the sound I had assigned to it does work from other
	pads.  But I mentioned the problem to Jim Laing (we bought ours
	from the same place) and he said to make sure I checked the output 
    	assignment - I may have inadvertently assigned it to Output 2.
	I'll check it tonight before I flame.
    
    	All in all, it's an excellent machine for the money.  

    	Rodney M.
    

    Please keep us posted on the dead pad. I've heard more horror stories
    on this machine than I'm comfortable with. I want to try and track
    them all down...
    
    Edd

    Yeah, it should come with a headphone output.  One of my gripes
    is that without it you HAVE to have a mixer to program the thing
    because there is no MONO output mode (or at least, none is documented).
    
    My typical method of programming my old drum machine was to extract
    it from my studio, haul it upstairs, set it on the dining room table,
    get a cup of coffee and program it there.  My 'studio' is a hostile
    place to do programming (no place to sit mainly).
    
    Another alternative to a headphone output is to have one of the
    output sets revert to MONO if only one plug is plugged in.  No mention
    of this is made in the manual, and from what I can tell there is
    no such feature.  When I first got the machine I was wondering why
    I the HH was so low (volume wise) and why the Bass drum was so loud
    and the reason was because I had only plugged in one output and
    the HH was panned mostly to the other side, and the BD was panned
    mostly to the side I was using.
    
    So, the alternatives are:
    
    	1) Add a headphone outlet
    	2) Add a MONO mode (either by plug or one of the UTIL pages)
    
    I think at some point I'm going to update my review to reflect my
    post-review comments as well as other people's comments and send
    it into Alesis, or maybe even this home recording rag I've been
    getting.  I think the collective comments of various owners we see
    in this notesfile is more thorough and applicable to my own decision
    process than any review I've ever seen in a magazine.
    
    	db

    Well...(sheepish smile), I...er...(cough), checked out the "dead"
    pad last night, and...er...well, apparently, it was my brain that
    was dead.  I *did* have it panned to the wrong output.
    
    Thanks, Jim.
    
    Sorry, Edd.  You'll have to find some other reasons for not getting
    one.  :-)

    I'm relieved.
    
    Rodney_who_is_still_licking_the_egg_off_his_face.  
    

    Don't think for a second that you broke my heart....
    
    Edd (Breathing_normally_again)

    
    
    I have one other minor complaint....I hope its not just my unit.
    
    Seems the MIDI sockets are recessed about 1/4 of an inch into the
    body.  My MIDI cable just sort of laid there without actually
    making any of the pins contact.  That is until I performed surgery
    on the cable.  I removed about 1/2 an inch of the plastic sleaving
    on the cable supplied with the unit, and it works great now.
    Upon further inspection, I found that every other MIDI device I
    own has the socket flush with the body.  Is this a design flaw
    by Alesis, or did somebody forget to tighten something up in the
    assembly line on my unit?
    
    Ralph
    
    

    re .88	I think Acton Music Centre on Rte #27 has Sweet Potato.
    	If you can't get a hold of a copy and just want to quote the price
    at someone (Steve in Danvers, for example) the ad is on page 11
    of the January (it says January '87, but there were no HR 16s then,
    right ?) issue.  Again, its $429 sans tax.

    	Reg
    

    ok. question seems unanswered so far....
    
    can I record patterns via midi realtime?
    
    (like from my qx5)
    

    re: .96
    
    Yes, according to the manual.  I haven't tried it though.
    
    	db

    how bout entering step-time info via a kbd, not the
    panel????
    

    Re .97 - I'm not saying it can't be done, just wondering how it's done.
    How do I record a pattern in real time via MIDI?  Does the pattern
    just repeat indefinitely, overlaying the input on it?
    
    len.
    

    > Does the pattern repeat indefinitely, overlaying the input on
    > it?
    
    Yes.
    
    > Step time from MIDI?
    
    I believe so.  (I don't own one, I own an R50, but when I compared
    the HR-16 at least claimed this capability.)
    
    Steph

    re: .98
    
    Don't know about entering from a keyboard in step time.   It probably
    can be done, but it wouldn't bother me in the least if it couldn't.
    If you're in step time the only parameters are WHAT gets pushed
    and how hard.  In step time, it's just as easy to push a button
    on the HR-16 as it is on a keyboard, then edit the velocity.
    
    re: .99
    
>    How do I record a pattern in real time via MIDI?  Does the pattern
>    just repeat indefinitely, overlaying the input on it?
    
    By coincidence, I had to do this last night.
    
    What I did was to set:
    
    	MIDI RECEIVE = on
    	AUTO START = on
    	MIDI CLOCK = interanl & external
    
    I had a drum sequence in my ESQ-1 that I wanted to load into a pattern
    in the HR-16.  All I did was to press and hold the HR-16 RECORD
    button and then press PLAY on the ESQ-1.  Worked exactly as expected.
    
    When the HR-16 got the MIDI start msg, it went into record and recorded
    the drum track coming from the ESQ-1.
    
    BTW, with one minor glitch, the HR-16 works exceptionally well with
    the ESQ-1 sequencer setup.
    
    The ESQ-1 sends out MIDI program change messages at the beginning
    of a sequence.  The HR-16 (optionally) interprets program change
    #n as select pattern #n.  While explaining how these things are
    achieved would take longer than I have at the moment, suffice it
    to say that all these things can be done trivially:
    
    	o You can have different voices assignments for each sequence.
    	  The program change causes the right assignments to get selected
    	  at the right times.
    
    	o You get great flexibility regarding how you sequence the drums
    
    		1) You can just have the drum track in an HR-16 song
    		  (this requires that you always start the tune from
    	 	  the beginning in order to get the drums in synch)
    
    		2) You can have a pattern for each ESQ-1 sequence. 
    		   This is much more memory efficient than (3) and
    		   has the advantage over (1) that you can synch at
    	 	   the beginning of each sequence.  It also allows
    		   you to use the HR-16 editing features to change
    		   things.
    
    		   While you may not normally build up a drum track
    	 	   using one HR-16 pattern for one ESQ-1 sequence
    		   (you may have several patterns for each sequence),
    		   the HR-16's appending commands make it trivial
    		   to build things however you like and then assemble
    		   them into one pattern.
    
    		3) You can record the drums into an ESQ-1 track.
    		   This allows you to use the LOCATE ability anyway
    		   you want and always have the drums in synch.
    		   However, it uses more memory than (1) and (2).
    		
    		4) You can record the drums into the ESQ-1 but still
    		   rely on the pattern select feature to select the
    		   right voices.
    
    OK, what's the aforementioned glitch right?  It's mostly with method
    (4).  As has been mentioned earlier in this note, voice assignments
    are NOT stored unless there is at least one note in the pattern.
    This means you HAVE to have a note there, but that may be an unwanted
    note.  What I did last night was to turn the MIX of an unused pad
    all the way down and put that note in the pattern.  (see p.s. for
    potential better solution).
    
    On the other hand, having tried all these methods, I think I'm
    going to be using mostly method (2) from now on.
    
    	db
    
    p.s.  It would be interesting to see if voice assignments are retained
    	  if you delete all the notes.  It may just be that the pattern
    	  isn't considered to be there until you play a note.  Intuitively
    	  we know that patterns MUST have a "I exist" flag because this
    	  determines whether or not copies to that pattern change the
    	  voice assignments to the copied pattern ("I don't exist")
    	  or retain the current voice assignments ("I exist").
    
          In this case, this glitch is probably the result of a software
    	  "bug" wherein the "I exist" flag doesn't get set when you
    	  do a "store voice assignments" command.  I'll bet that could
    	  easily be fixed, perhaps even ECO'd.
    	
    
    If you use method two, and 
    

    More HR-16/ESQ-1 gotchas and observations:
    
    		I'm typing this at about 120 WPM and when I do
    		that I often end up with explanations of things
    		that aren't very well described.  Please excuse
    		that, I'm very busy at work right now.
    
    1) Method #2 does not work with ESQ-1, might work with PC-based
       sequencer
    
    Sigh.  The method of using the "pattern select" feature to sequence
    the drum machine does not work when you string sequences together
    into a song.  
    
    The simplest description of the problem is that the pattern change
    doesn't occur quickly enough or within the necessary time-frame
    
    Example:  Presume that my pattern #s correspond to ESQ-1 sequence
    #s.  When I go from SEQ-12 to SEQ-13, the "select Pattern 13" command
    either gets sent or gets decoded AFTER SEQ-13 has started.  The
    HR-16 only changes at the END of sequences, so if for any reason
    the pattern changes doesn't "happen" before SEQ-13 starts, it will
    stay in pattern 12 until pattern 12 completes the second time.

    2) Step edit mode benefits
    
    In previous notes I complained about certain aspects of the way
    step edit works.  One thing I didn't like was that one step didn't
    always correspond to one quantum, and that made it hard to realize
    where you were in the pattern sometimes.
    
    Well, I'd still like to have that capability, but one thing I've
    discovered is that this is forcing me to think about the patterns
    I create in terms of beats and note values, and not just do everything
    by feel.
    
    What I'm discovering is that as I gain more and more understanding
    about where the notes fall, I'm finding that are things that I
    previously could ONLY enter in real time mode (cause I didn't
    understand what was actually going on even if I could "feel" it)
    that I can now enter much easier in step time.
    
    Actually, I think Len mentioned something to this effect in the
    Humanization notes.  He gets an "I told you so" for that, but I
    still find that quantizing none time-keeping drums makes it sound
    mechanical.
    
    4) Fill key - hidden value
    
    I was working on some drum parts that required short little cymbal or
    snare rolls here and there.  I tried to do them in real time but
    they came out uneven and wrong.
    
    I thought about doing them in step mode but I didn't know what time
    value each note in a role got.  Then I figured I could use the FILL
    button to figure that out and enter the rolls in realtime.   I just
    diddled with the quantum until it sounded right.  I found
    out that by setting the quantum to 1/32 and then hitting and release
    the pad at the right moments (I also decreased the tempo to increase
    the 'window' and reduce the margin of error), it was trivial to
    go back and add these kinds of things to the pattern.
    
    I still had to edit the velocity values in step mode, but that was
    easy.
    
    Coincidentally, the very next day I was reading an interview with
    Stewart Copeland (ex of the Police) and he said the reason he bought
    his Linndrum was mostly on the basis of a key it has that is very
    similar to the HR-16 FILL key.  It was a bit vague about how he
    used that key but it sounded similar to what I've described above.

    5) New gripe:
    
    You should be able to change the quantum without kicking you out
    of step mode.  Among other things, kicking you out of step mode
    means you have to start from the beginning of the pattern again.
    
    If I have a 16 beat pattern and I want to change something on the
    last 96th note of beat 16, I have to step all the way through the
    first 16*96 quantums to get to it.  Yes, the step button does 'repeat'
    but its still a pain.
    
    And of course with experience I've discovered JUST HOW STUPID AND
    PAINFUL it is not being able to step backwards.  

    	db

    re .102 - Thanks for the "I told you so", Dave, but I've still got
    another one in my back pocket that you'll pay up on one day.  That's
    the "step time programming of 'non-time-keeping' drums parts sounds
    mechanical".  I still claim that's almost entirely a dynamics problem.
    You can't get the dynamics right from the pads (if the HR-16 even
    listens to dynamics in step programming mode) in step time; the
    stepping process breaks up the flow.  I spend *considerable* time
    considering the dynamics of my patterns, which I program entirely
    in step time, using the MC500's step time programming interface, and
    my drum programming has never sounded mechanical to me.  Now that may
    just say, as I have noted before, that I have mechanically biased hearing,
    but lots of other listeners seem to agree with me, so I suspect
    I'm right about this.
    
    Now, I'll admit, I originally thought that the 8 dynamic levels
    the MC500 gave me was enough to get all the subtlety I needed, but
    I confess I'd really like at least 16, now that I've had some
    experience programming this way.
    
    It's a bottomless pit, you know;  I used to do everything with no
    dynamics, and now I have plans to get an Iota Systems MIDIFader
    so I can add at least volume (but not timbral) dynamics to my CZ-101
    and Juno-106.  Otherwise I'd have to trash them.  Velocity sensitivity
    is absolutely essential in any MIDI soudn module I'll ever buy
    henceforth.
    
    len.
    

>    re .102 - Thanks for the "I told you so", Dave, but I've still got
>    another one in my back pocket that you'll pay up on one day.  That's
>    the "step time programming of 'non-time-keeping' drums parts sounds
>    mechanical".  I still claim that's almost entirely a dynamics problem.

    Well Len, Stewart Copeland said almost exactly what you said here
    in that interview I mentioned.  I'm never bothered to find out I've
    been making a mistake all along (except in the case of
    spelling/grammatical errors I suppose ;-{) ), but note that I've
    refined my original statement.
    
    I now say that time-keeping parts are best quantized, but certain
    non-time keeping parts are best entered in real time.  I have great
    respect for Len and Stew as drummers, but it just seems like saying
    otherwise is to deny that drums are ever played ahead of or behind
    the beat, even though they are not "thought of" or "notated" that
    way.
    
    However, I have to admit that there are many things you've said
    that I initially disagreed with that I later found out that you
    were right.  Believe me, I'm completely open minded except that
    in the end I tend to go by what seems to work for me.

    Anyway, I'm greatly  benefitting from all this.  The drums for the
    tune I'm working on sound a whole lot better than what I think I
    was capable of before, even though I find this tune to be significantly
    harder to do drums for than previous stuff I've done.  The tune
    I'm working on is sorta a ballad.  There is no basic drum pattern
    like in standard rock - most of the drums are just fills to create
    tension for other instruments.
    
    But if I don't end up rushing things, I think it'll come out good,
    especially with the HR-16.

    	db

    re .104 - I won't argue that drummers never play ahead of or behind
    the beat, but that doesn't dictate the two conclusions you seem
    to have drawn, namely that:
    
    	1) real time programming always produces the desired effect,
    	   and
    
    	2) step time programming of "non-time-keeping" parts always
    	   produces a mechanical effect.
    
    I believe you specifically mean to apply these conclusions to fills,
    and I just plain can't accept that.
    
    I will argue that nondrummers are rather less likely than drummers
    to produce the desired effect by real time programming (especially
    if they are by training or experience keyboardists or guitarists;
    I strongly suspect that drummers, guitarists, and keyboardists all
    have different senses of time appropriate to their instruments and
    their role in the music they are used to playing).
    
    As I have said many times now, I wish the MC500 would let me adjust
    the timing of drum parts by fractions of MIDI clocks (like it lets
    me do for non-"rhythm tracks").  However, the parts that I have
    programmed (fills and all) in step time sound anything but mechanical
    to me and many other listeners.
    
    The mechanicalness of step time programmed fills and such, in the
    hands of nonexperts, comes, I believe, from a lack of explicit
    understanding of the dynamics involved, an understanding which can
    be partially obviated by real time programming where the same factors
    (e.g., "handedness") that work with real drummers implicitly influence
    the results of real time programming.  I.e., even if you don't know
    what you're doing you come closer to the "right thing" by trying it than
    by step time programming it.  Just as I, as a non guitarist, will
    come closer to a "real" guitar strum by playing one on a real guitar,
    than I will by step time programming it.  In particular, the
    characteristics of the instrument itself almost force me to "do
    it right", constraints which don't exist in the step time programming
    environment and which I must "intellectually" impose on myself.
    
    Furthermore, I believe the dynamic considerations are *so* much
    more significant than the timing considerations that even a crude
    approximation of their "correctness" swamps the timing "errors"
    typical of nondrummers programming in real time.  This many not
    be true of other instruments, but my experience with drums and drum
    machine programming leads to me to believe this *is* true for drums.
    
    To help convince you of this, let me propose a "thought experiment"
    that I have found useful.  Consider yourself, a "nondrummer" with
    some basic capability behind a drum kit (you know, you can go "boom
    slam boom slam").  You are sitting behind a modern electronic kit
    with full dynamics.  Sitting next to you is some world famous drummer,
    but his electronic kit has *no dynamic response whatsoever*.  You
    both keep time for a few bars.  Who's going to sound "mechanical"?
                                                         
    Does this make any sense?
                                                                      
    
    len.
    

    
    
Yes, this makes a lot of sense.  Also, "real" drummers get various sounds
    out of one drum/hittable object.  A drum machine will usually have
    an open/closed hi-hat, but a drummer may play on the bell of the
    hi hat, the edge with the cymbals slightly open, et. al.
    
    
    Also, speaking of how a drummer programs, versus a non-drummer,
    I have always found that the music that I write on one instrumen
    is ususlly different from the music on another instrument, i.e.
    Rhodes vs. Oberheim vs. stratocaster....
    
    Ashley

    I was in a music store on Saturday, and while I was digging through
    the sheet music, a friend went into the drums (or so I thought).
    
    He started belting out something on what I figured was a many-grand
    drum kit... not anything in particular, mind you.  But it sounded
    like real drums, right there in the store.
    
    It was an HR-16....
    	
    Cripes, the pads can even be touch-typed!!  I can transfer my LK-201
    techniques directly!  :-)  
    

Well, I got the HR16 back, and it's working fine. It must have been the static
electricity alright. All they did was reinitialize by clearing the memory as
described on the last page (27) of the manual. I lost all my settings and
sequences, but it sure beats sending it back to the factory every time. So if
your HR16 gets flaky, try to save everything to tape, then execute the
"CLEARING MEMORY" procedure.

drum drops

dave

ps. watch out for carpet and stocking feet, if i wear sneakers its alright

    re .108	"carpet and stocking feet"   You wear stockings now ?

    	The field service tip was to check for nylons under silk slips
    under wool skirts, quite a charge.  30Kv isn't uncommon.

    	Reg
    

Check your humidity.  In the winter the humidity in a heated house can
drop to under 10%.  Wooden instruments want 40%, and so does your skin.
Dry air promotes static electricity too, playing havoc with electronic
gear of all types and upsetting your cat.

My den (where all the electronics and instruments live) has one of those
ultrasonic humidifiers, and I leave it running at half-power most of the time.
This manages to keep the humidity up around 20% (with the door open), which is
a lot better than the 6% it would be otherwise. 

    > Check for nylons under silk slip under wool skirt. Quite a charge...
    
    I know *I* always got quite a charge out checking for this very
    situation...
    
    Edd

    hey, just wondering.  I am one of the few that has not listened
    to the HR-16.  My TR-505 still sounds fine to me.  Granted, it doesn't
    have all the bells and whistles, but it's okay.  I notice after
    a while that I can hear drums and say to myself, yeah that's a 505
    or yeah, that's a DR-110 or whatever.  The point is that I would
    expect eventually to be able to say (in an unimpressed fashion)
    yeah, that's an HR-16 because I will be able to tell what it sounds
    like.  I also expect in the future to hear users gripe about not
    having more sounds or being able to use carts like the RX5, RX7
    or whatever.  So, it begins to look like a never-ending search for
    a good drum machine.  With all the hype about the HR-16, I find
    myself kind of ho-hum given this perspective.  Sorry, but I'm just
    not all that excited about a drum machine with more realistic sounds.
    After a while you're bound to get tired of the sounds, even though
    they are 16-bit.  Anybody else feel the same way?  I figure that
    the only *real* solution to good drums is either to have access
    to gobs of sounds that can be manipulated by the user, or accent
    the sounds with effects or layering.
    
    Mr. Moderator, feel free to move or delete this note.  You won't
    hurt my feelings.
    
    Steve

RE < Note 1064.112 by ECADSR::SHERMAN "No, Rodney. That's *old* science! ..." >

>    Anybody else feel the same way?  

	Funny you should bring this up...  I've been feeling the same way about
the HR-16 - like, 'o.k., so what...'  (maybe it's just 'cause I don't have the 
money to buy one... 8^)

	Seriously, I guess part of my feeling about it is that after having 
gone through a coupla drum boxes, I have found that drums are not REALLY all 
that crucial a component to me.  Keep the beat, do a couple of fills to keep
the 'goose-pimple-level' high...  All I have now are a couple of drum sources
(basic kit and latin percussion), no drum sequencing built-in, no individual
outs...  I'm having a blast!  Sure, it takes a little longer to program (without
a drum machine's built-in sequencing), but then again, I've only really 
step-programmed two songs so far...  I expect my proficiency level to increase 
in time.

	Another reason I'm probably not impressed may well be the level of
ear-training I have.  In many cases, even the cheapest drum box sounds fine
to me when it's part of a mix.  I used to love the Korg's Dr-110 sounds and
I still think the recordings I made with them sounded fine.  It wasn't until
I played them side-by-side that I noticed the 707's sounds were better.  But
a side-by-side comparison is rarely important to the small circle of friends
I like to share my music with, or even on a live sound-stage.  People are 
content when they haven't heard something better - and a lot of people are 
content even AFTER they've heard something better.  I've found the same 
phenomenon in HI-FI circles.  I guess my ears are just not sensitive enough yet 
to hear the differences or care when I do...

	Drum machines appear to be a hot market right now.  I still laugh when I
see things like orchestra hits and bass slaps thrown into the resident drum 
samples available.  I don't know, it just makes me chuckle.  I suppose if I USED
those kind of sounds in MY music, I'd be impressed.  But I don't.  And I'm not.

	Maybe it's because I'm not pursuing being a 'rock-n-roller' any more...

	Dan

	BTW, none of these comments are meant to put down anyone who disagrees
with my views.  Just musings from a decaying mind...  (or is it decomposing? 8^)

    You guys seem to want to think that the hr-16 is hyped
    and 'fashionable' and so dismiss it as such.
    
    The sounds are great fidelity. As close to Live drums
    as Ive heard.
    
    I suppose if you *want* your stuff to sound like a 
    drum machine, you dont care.
    
    Is that it?
    

    I don't know why you guys feel awkward about expressing this view.
    I own an HR-16 and I don't feel the least bit insulted.
    
    In fact, in the GUITAR notesfile I entered a note with the title
    "Well THEIR toaster oven has an automatic browning feature", which
    is a reference to the movie "Time Bandits" in which the parents
    of the young traveller are perpetually searching for the ideal
    appliance.
    
    Regarding the HR-16, I bought mine cause I was just really unhappy
    with the sounds of my Casio RZ-1.  If I had a 707 or a 505, I 
    wouldn't replace it because I would have been happy with those
    units.
    
    I really haven't meant to hype it.  My intent was to thoroughly
    review it.  Remember that I've posted lots of gripes about it.
    In fact, I think the sounds are really the only thing this thing
    has got going for it.  Lots of other units compare favorably to
    it (IMO) feature-wise.
    
>   My TR-505 still sounds fine to me.
    
    I'm of the opinion that the differences between any of the good
    machines (707, 505, DDD-1, HR-16, RX-n, etc) aren't enough to make
    a significant difference in how 'real' it sounds.  I really think
    it's in the programming.
    
    The drums to "Tantara" were, in my opinion, the most realistic sounding
    drums on Commusic III.  It wasn't really the sound so much as that
    to my ears, they sounded like something a drummer would do.  In
    fact, when I listen to it I often picture a drummer sitting behind
    a kit playing these parts.
    
    For the last week or so, I've spent hours working on drums for a
    dumb sappy little love song.  I still have lots of sections that just 
    shout "DRUM MACHINE!!  DRUM MACHINE!!!" even with my 16 bit sampled
    sounds.  The problem is, that I just am having a hard time coming
    up with things that sound like something a drummer would do and
    I just can't seem to live with it if it doesn't sound like a drummer.
    
    On the issue of getting tired of the sounds, I don't think I'm any 
    more likely to get bored of any one set of sounds that a drummer is 
    gonna get bored of a kit that he's happy with.

    Regarding being able to eventually identify HR-16's, yeah that'll
    probably happen, but mostly because people will stick to the default
    kit, the default tunings, the default mix, etc.
    
    On Commusic IV I can pick out the ESQ-1's easily but that's mostly
    because a lot of folks are using the patches that came with the
    unit (I'm thinking of BANNING the use of the DIGPNO patch on ALL
    Commusic V submissions - it's used on about 4 Commusic IV tunes).
    
    	db

    Addendum: The test I've been using to evaluate my own drum programming
        and stuff I hear on Commusic tapes is "Does it make me wanna
        play 'air drums'".   If it does that, I'm impressed/happy.
    
    	I've only heard 3 tunes by Steve Sherman and I'm always air
    	drumming each time I play them (which is a lot).  The drums
    	always seem to be an integral part of the piece rather than
    	something that was added.
    
    I was really hoping that some of you drummers would start submitting
    stuff to Commusic, but unless I'm mistaken, the only thing submitted
    by a drummer was Len's thing which had no drums.
    
    	db

    Golly, gee, thanks Dave (blushing uncontrollably).  Actually, as
    will be apparent to all, my Commusic IV drums need work.  But, hey,
    whatever bakes your cookies!
    
    As for the other stuff, I certainly won't accuse anybody *here*
    of hype.  Mostly I see hype coming off the outside net.  If I had
    my druthers I'd get an HR-16, but I'm not ready to drop my 505 for
    it.  The basic question came up because I detect an endless loop
    in always upgrading the drum machine when in the long run it may
    not make much difference after a certain level has been attained.
    By the way, no 'sour grapes' from this gringo.  I'm plenty pleased
    with the stuff I have gotten/will eventually be able to get.
    
    Steve_who_anxiously_awaits_Commusic_IV_and_*really*_appreciates_
    db's_efforts_same_as_everybody_else
    

    re .115 - Aw shucks Dave, you stole my "DRUM MACHINE!!! DRUM
    MACHINE!!!" line.  Now what am I gonna do for my COMMUSIC IV review?
    Since I don't have an ESQ-1 (ask Dave about *that*), I didn't recognize
    the drums of COMMUSIC IV (sounds like a great name for an intergalactic
    ethnic percussion album) as mostly ESQ-1s, although there was this
    nagging sense of "sameness".  What I noticed most specifically
    (trumpet flourish as len trots out his favorite ax to grind) was
    (can you guess?) a lack of dynamics.  Especially on all those
    tickyticky running 16th note hihat rides.
    
    I've still got my trusty old TR-707, and except for the lack of
    an adequate ride cymbal and my compulsion to use multiple crashes
    (my acoustic setup uses 4 out of the 8 or so I own) it quite
    satisfactorily fills my needs.  It'd be nice if I could get a decent
    castanet sample (HR-16 doesn't help me there), and, yeah the new
    machines are cheaper than the old top of the line boxes, but I figure
    I've gotten my money's worth out of the 707.  And I still use my
    909!  I'll probably get an HR-16 eventually, it's always useful
    to have another crash and the ride does sound reasonably good, but
    by the time I get around to it, there'll probably be another spiffy
    box available.  I really do wish they'd put it into a single height
    rack mount package, trash the sequencer stuff, and add a disk drive
    or cartridge for extensibility.  Now, if they could do *that* for
    $400, I'd go buy one right now. (Hmm, another opportunity for
    Rontronics or LERDSBIM Enterprises?)  I mean, I've got drum machine
    sequencers coming out of my ears (like 4 of 'em?) (drum machine
    sequencers, not ears).
    
    len.
    

                           

    I tend to understand Steve's comments about what might be the big
    "deal" about new drum machines.  But what I would really like is...
    
    A cymbal machine.
    
    Until a technique (more user-interface than anything else) can be
    developed to control the sound/dynamics of *where* the simulated
    drumstick hits the simulated drum head, there's not a whole lot
    that can be done to *signficantly* improve the "drum" portion of
    today's consumer-oriented drum machines.
    
    Ah, but the cymbals...
    
    One of the first things that hit you with the HR-16 is the wonderful
    1.5s (or so) crash cymbal.  Hey, no big deal, in terms of digitization
    and recall, but it's there!
    
    I find (personally) that the biggest component of the "DRUM MACHINE!!..."
    [ (C)1988, L. Feshkens  All rights reserved.] is the samness of
    the cymbal set (besides the omnipresent lack of dynamics).
    
    It's too bad such a "cymbal machine" isn't available.

RE < Note 1064.119 by HARDY::JKMARTIN "Me? I'm just a lawn mower..." >

	This gets me thinking...

	When Roland described the research and development process that went 
into the synthesis approach to produce their digital pianos, Structured Adaptive
Synthesis, they spoke about not only of listening to each *KEY* as a separate
entity, but each level of *VELOCITY* as a separate entity as well.  Now, whether
this is only so much marketing bull or not, one thing's for sure; their 
digital pianos were the first non-sampled unit to get a *real* nice sounding and
accurate piano.

	If that kind of approach could be adapted to the synthesis of cymbals...
I think we'd be well on our way - er, their way...

	How much you wanna bet someone's not working on it already?

	Dan

    I replaced my 707 with an HR-16 (where is it you clowns??) because
    for me the 707 didn't sound like real drums, I spent entirely too
    much time eq'ing the 707 to feel comfortable with it and the cymbols
    sound a bit like pot pie pans (read that junky sound). Since I use
    a heavy cymbol line in most everything I do this was totally
    inacceptable. Running the 7070 straight without hevy eq'ing led
    to comments like "muddy drums" because that's how a 707 sounds.
    
    Since I rarely have the advantage of working with a real drummer
    I needed/wanted the best sound I could get. Yeah I could get tired
    of the sounds (if I ever hear it!) but I got tired of the 707 within
    2 months, sinc the HR-16 is tunable and has some additional sounds
    from the 707 it should take at least 3-4 months before I get tired
    of that one....yawn...I get tired of the sound of read drums if
    I work with the same drummer too much...except for the count....
    
    dave

    Re the previous bunch of replies:
    
    I don't know what if anything Roland is working on.  Some time ago
    (I think in a note in this conference) I proposed just such a cymbal
    box, and there was some discussion about it.  My ideal cymbal box
    would probably have about 20 seconds worth of active samples in
    it - 2 4-second tunable crashes (same sample usable in real time
    over a modest range of pitches), a 4-second ride with the ability
    to read multiple successive samples out without truncating decays,
    a 2-second bell ride, and 6 seconds worth of open/partially-closed/
    closed/pedaled hihat.  This entails about 1.8 Mbytes of sample storage
    for 44.1KHz 16 bit samples (absolutely necessary for cymbals).  Of
    course, the samples would be loadable from disk (2 880K 3.5" floppies
    would fill the machine). 
    
    I differ with Dave about the -707; it sounds like real drums to
    me, with the obvious exception of the ride cymbal, which sounds
    like a poor electronic imitation of a ride cymbal.  The crash is
    quite reasonable at low velocities (you need to crank up the gain
    though), and you can get by with its short duration by suitably
    reverbing it.  At high velocities it gets far too "boxy" for my
    taste.  The hihat is reasonable, but not as good as the hihat in
    the 909.  As one of the people who remarked on Dave's early drum
    machine efforts as "muddy", I do not attribute that to the -707
    but rather to how it was recorded.  I use some EQ on my -707 (the
    snare, to fatten it; the bass and toms to get rid of some of the
    excessive slap), but certainly not because the sounds are muddy
    or not realistic.  In fact, I'd argue that if anything the -707's
    drum sounds are too idealized, and without EQ sound too clean for
    reality.  Sorry, Dave, your description of the -707 sounds like
    a completely different machine from mine.
    
    Regarding an electronic drum system that accomodates the different
    sounds you get from different points on the head, the new Simmons
    SDX does exactly that.  A pad can be divided into (I believe) up
    to 8 areas, each of which can invoke a different sample.  There's
    just one problem - a 5 pad SDX kit costs close to $4K, if I recall
    correctly.  This actually isn't that bad considering what it does.
                           
    Finally, I'd appreciate it if folks would look closely at the correct
    spelling of my name.  The "h" *precedes* the first "s", and is silent.
    
    len.
    
    

    Hmmm, I typically have to boost the mid and highs on every sound on the
    707 to get what sounds like real drums to me...on the tape where the
    muddy comments were made I recorded the 707 straight with no eq and it
    was muddy. The snare in particular hasn't got the snap that I'm used to
    with a real drum. Perhaps I'm now over compensating, but after the
    first CM tape I spent several days working with the 707 to get a decent
    sound out of it, it needs what I feel is excessive eq to sound good on
    my systems. To each his own I guess, at least we agree about the ride
    cymbol, the crash and hi hat also leave something to be desired in my
    opinion but I sequence the drums via the front panel and don't have the
    amount of control offered by a dedicated sequencer; this may account
    for some of the differences we have about the sounds. However I usually
    didn't use any accents at all, so that left me at the default velocity
    value, whatever that is. At the time I bought the 707 the only thing
    that sounded better on the market was the Linn, I couldn't afford the
    linn and got the roland, within a couple of months I was tired of the
    707, fed up with it's limitations both sound wise and programming wise
    and was extremely glad to get $300 for it a couple of weeks ago.... 
 
    dave                                                     

    One interesting thing about the 707 - the velocity it sends via
    the MIDI out is a function of the master volume slider, and the
    difference in velocities for accented notes is determined by the
    accent level slider.  You'll only see this if you use the 707 to
    drive some other MIDI device (e.g., a sequencer, so you can capture
    the drum track as an ordinary sequence of MIDI events).  I assume
    the internal sequencer "listens" to the two sliders the same way;
    i.e., the "default" velocity depends on the master volume slider
    setting and use of the accents.
    
    On the need to boost highs and mid frequencies - this is really
    wierd, because the bulk of the EQ I apply to the 707 sounds is hi
    cut, and some carefully placed mid range boost.  I only half
    facetiously suggest that maybe your deck is throwing highs on the
    floor, or maybe too many years of deafening (literally) blues jamming
    has impaired your hearing.  I am used to the acoustical ambience
    of "classical music" played in Symphony Hall, and find many records
    and almost all live mixes to have far too much high frequency content.
    I have my ears checked every few years and my hearing is unaffected,
    i.e., up to spec.
    
    By the way, I thought your COMMUSIC IV submissions were too brightly
    mixed, and wondered if Dave Blickstein had forgotten to kick in the
    Dolby. 
    
    Be that as it may, if you're happier with your HR-16, terrific, but
    I still find the -707 a very useful tool.  It's certainly not the
    ultimate drum machine, but I'd be hard pressed to write it off as
    a piece of dreck.  I've had mine almost three years now and I'm
    far from "tired" of it.  Sounds like I've gotta get my act together
    and get *my* -707/909 on COMMUSIC V.
    
    Also sounds like it's time for another Drum Machine Faceoff;  it'd be
    nice if we could get the following machines to participate:
    
    	Roland TR-626
    	Alesis HR-16
    	Kawai R-5 or R-10
    	Korg DDD-1, DDD-5 or DRM-1
    	Yamaha RX-5                                            
    
    I think I got all those model numbers right; my ears may be OK but
    my memory is known to need ECC.  I think the problem is going to
    be finding COMMUSICians in the Greater Maynard Area with anything
    but HR-16s!
    
    len.

    Yamaha recently announced a new RX-something_or_other. Basically
    the same unit as their top o' the line unit, minus the envelope
    editing.
    
    Along with the basic drum/perc sounds it's got some bass guitar
    samples, a DX-7 sample (Wha'??? Please, not the DX-Rhodes!) and
    lots of otehr whizmos.
    
    $895 MSRP. Your mileage may vary.
    
    Edd

Len,

>    Also sounds like it's time for another Drum Machine Faceoff;  it'd be
>    nice if we could get the following machines to participate:
>    
>    	Roland TR-626
>    	Alesis HR-16
>    	Kawai R-5 or R-10
>    	Korg DDD-1, DDD-5 or DRM-1
>    	Yamaha RX-5                                            
>    my memory is known to need ECC.  I think the problem is going to
>    be finding COMMUSICians in the Greater Maynard Area with anything
>    but HR-16s!

I have the Linn Drum, DDD-5, and HR-16. I also have the TR707 sampled onto
the Roland S50, along with the other Roland S50 drum samples. I live in Hudson,
Mass and would enjoy getting together at my place with other "beat freaks" in
this area (BYOB). Also, I'm interested in getting some first hand studio advice,
copies of the COMMUSIC I,II,III,IV tapes, etc. Howz 'bout it?

dave

>    By the way, I thought your COMMUSIC IV submissions were too brightly
>    mixed, and wondered if Dave Blickstein had forgotten to kick in the
>    Dolby. 
    
    No, if the tape was sent to me with Dolby in, I mastered it that
    way.  However, there could be problems with either my deck or Dave's
    deck.  
    
    	db

    re: .125
    
    I think you're referring to the RX7. It's on the cover of Jan.
    AFTERTOUCH.  It's the little brother of the RX5.
    
    The other major difference is that it only has stereo outputs, as
    opposed to the 12 outs on the RX7...but to quote:
    
    "In fact, the innovative features of the new rhythm programmer MANDATE
    stereo outputs". (Caps are mine).  
    
    That's a piece of marketing hype I've never heard before.

    But it does sound like a tremendous machine. 
    
    Rodney M.
    

    The copy of CM III that I received seemed to be much brighter than
    what I thought I had submitted. I even commented on this, in fact
    the same thing seemed to happen on CMII, so I herby assume that
    my cassette deck is messed up (not surprising as it's nearly ten
    years old now). I certainly didn't mix it that bright, bright perhaps
    but no that bright.
    
    As far as my hearing goes, yep it's not what it used to be, of that
    I have no doubt.
    
    dave

                        
    Two-phase reply here:
    
    Phase #1: Dolby Bashing
    
    I've owned quite a few cassette decks over the years, Sony, Akai,
    Ampex, Teac, H/K and finally decided that one real important feature
    is bias/Dolby calibration.  Dolby is level sensitive.  If the high
    end gets attenuated at all (common in cassettes, they often have
    poor HF response), the Dolby mistracks by cutting out *more* HF
    signal than was intended.  I use a lot of different tapes in my
    H/K and find thateven from batch to batch, tapes often have quite
    differnet biasing/level requirements.  Plus I noted that older tapes,
    say that have seen a years' use in the car, have drastic deterioration
    which suggests: 
    	
    	1.  Find a tape that sounds good on your deck or have a repairman
    set your deck up for a specific tape.  A good test, record with
    Dolby, then without.  Listen to the tape back .  If the decoded
    Dolby sounds worse than the un-Dolbyized, then you have a calibration
    problem.  When properly set up, they should sound identical (except
    for the hiss).  
    
    	2.  Use a fresh tape for anything important.
    
    BTW, dbx theoretically has the same problem, but because it affects
    the *entire* frequency band, it doesn't manifest out-of-cal pronlems
    as lost high end, but as excessive breathing.
    
    Phase #2:  MT-32 Drum review Request
    
    Well, db, you have an HR-16, an RZ-1 and an MT-32.  OK, how do those
    drum sounds in the MT compare with dedicated drum boxes?  I assume
    the HR-16 is better (why else would you use it?) and of course,
    the *usefullness* of the MT is dictated by how good your sequencer
    is, BUT....   
    
    How does it sound???  What sounds are available (i.e. cymbals. latin
    perc, etc.)????
    

    There aren't really any sounds on the RZ-1 I like.  The sounds are
    noisey, compressed, and not very realistic.
    
    I'm reluctant to say much about the MT-32.  I really think that
    the drums are comparable to a lot of really good machines.  The
    cymbals, I'm not crazy about.  I'll try and remember to A/B it with
    the HR this weekend and post something next week.
    
    One thing I will say is that if you are just starting out and can't
    afford a drum machine, the MT-32 isn't really that much of a compromise
    sound-wise.  That is, the difference between the MT-32 and a 'real'
    drum machine is not that big.
    
    	db

    Is there an RX-7 (by Yamaha, not Mazda?)  A "cheaper RX-5" would
    be more in line with the DDD-5, HR-16, TR-626 and R-5.  The R-10,
    DDD-1, DRM-1 and RX-5 are all in the same price league.
    
    The only listing I have lists an RX-17 rather than an RX-7.  There's
    also an RX-15.  The RX-17 lists for $375, the RX-15 for $525.
    
    We could also include MT-32 and ESQ-1 drum sounds, but it's not
    clear that's a fair comparison (i.e., synthesized vs. sampled drums).
    
    I'd be happy to let Dave Orin host the faceoff, but somebody's got
    to program a sequencer with the appropriate stuff.  I suppose I
    could haul my MC500 (already programmed for the last drum machine
    faceoff, but the note numbers are set up to drive the Roland and
    Yamaha standards - no problem if the drum machines involved can
    have their note numbers reassigned; changing the programming is
    a bear) along.
    
    What we did last time was record the faceoff on cassette, so it
    could be passed around and copied for interested parties.  All five
    machines were "online" at the same time, so A/B/C/D/E comparisons
    were possible on a voice by voice basis without having to continually
    juggle connections.  Can you handle this sort of setup?

          
    len.
    

    I heard an hr-16 saturday, and I'm putting my tr-626 on the block
    today.
    
    I will miss: a) headphone jack -- especially beneficial for watching
    		    tv or flying on planes and programming sunset grill
    		    or something
    		 b) Muted conga
    		 c) Accent on 1 in real-time mode
    
    Hopefully I can convince West l.a. music that I can get it for $395
    mail order.  It would be so ironic if I have to buy a machine made
    in L.A. from a dealer in Mass.   Such is life.
    
    Ashley.

    I dunno...I keep hearing comments about the lack of an accent on
    the "1" on the HR16 in real-time programming mode.  
    
    I *can* hear the "1" accented on mine.  It's not nearly as loud
    as I'd like it to be, but it's there.
    
    Or maybe it's just my imagination?
    
    Rodney M.
    

Hi Len -

Using the MC500 sounds great. The DDD-5 and HR-16 can handle note
number reassignment. I have a 16 channel mixer, 8 track deck, etc.
If you describe what you need in more detail (SUBSYS::ORIN) we can
set it up.

do

    I have a Kawai R50, and am in the greater Maynard area.  I can also
    probably get my hands on an RX11 and an RX17, if need be.
    
    Let me know if interested.d
    
    Steph
    

    Rumour has it these machines are being sold overseas. Can any of
    our European MIDIots verify this?
    
    I'm getting a little irked at the wait. The Alesis ad "No Patience
    Required" slays me. 
    
    On the warrannttee (sp? len?) card to my MIDIVerb II Alesis had
    the nerve to ask if there were any products I'd like to see...
    
                   "YEAH, MY F*****G HR-16!!!!!!!"
                 
    Edd

    Edd not to fume alone...mine which was paid for weeks prior to yours
    if I remember right still hasn't shipped to me...according to the
    dealer they got 2 out of 100 on order shipped last thursday from
    Alesis and of course one of them is mine...belief is in the seeing...
    
    The local dealers in Maine still haven't seen their demo units...every
    dealer I spoke with is frustrated beyond belief with the product,
    Alesis is telling all of them in a week or so we'll fill your order,
    then when they call back tey get told the same thing...
    
    One local dealer actually got one and sold it to (I may or may not
    believe this but it's what he said) Stevie Wonder's producer (who is
    actually a friend of his)....if he has to come to Maine to get one they
    must be scarce....
    
    dave 
    
    
    

    I'm considering a couple things...
    
            1.  Cancelling my order and taking the $50 down payment
                as a credit on something else. Sheeeet, I'm paying interest
                on this thing and NOBODY knows when it might arrive.
    
            2.  Firing off a politely worded letter to Alesis stating
                my displeasure.
    
    I can't blame the retailers. This is Alesis' problem. If I could
    get a *truthfull* answer, at least I could make a decision, but
    all I hear is "....2 weeks" or "...end of NEXT month", which is
    undoubtedly the answer Alesis is passing on.
    
    Edd

    
    
    Edd
    
    As of last weekend supplies in the U.K. have been O.K. I can still
    walk in and getone of the shelf at my local friendly dealer. If
    you had an akai I could sample it and send you th sounds ;-).
    
    I think the hype around this machine's introduction has been
    interesting. If you think back to when alessis anounced the first
    Midiverb. The situation was the same and the product became an overnight
    success. It *was* a good product but don't you think that alessis
    are playing one or two marketing games with us these days.    
    
    					Paul.
    

    Edd don't feel lonely, I bought a RC-71 (tascam remote for tape
    deck) back in early October and just picked it up last week...
    my local tells me he can't get anything right now, the demand is
    so high their stocks are depleting....I don't know how well I can
    trust his statements but his store certainly backs up the allegation
    I predict he'll be out of business in 6 months if it doesn't change.
    
    he suggested that I call tascam and raise hell since his hell raising
    didn't do any good....I was about to when they called saying the
    control was in...
    
    Alesis may need the same motivation
    
    dave

    You did that on purpose, didn't you???
    
    I hope they're all 120V.
    
    :^)
    
    Edd

    
    re .143	Of course they're all 120 V,  that's why they're so LOUD !

    Its also why they're having so much trouble with production quotas
    here, there spending all their time fixin' the damned field returns
    (sound familiar ?).

    	R
    

    
    I searched this whole topic for the words "rack mount".  I only
    saw one instance where someone said, more or less,  "if this were
    a 1 high rack mount..."  Is this not a rack mount ? Or how many
    spaces does it take ?
    
    Zach

    Sorry, Zach, it ain't even close to a rack mount.  It's a funny
    flat shaped thing.  Was designed to sit just fine on a flat surface,
    like the ones routinely found in recording studios and gig situations.
    
    len.
    

    re: The Shape of things to come
    
    I don't think so.
    
    If the HR-16 were a rack mount unit I wouldn't buy it!
    
    Surprised?  It's a human factors issue.
    
    Pushing buttons and twirling knobs is very awkward on rack mounted
    devices because the buttons are pushed from the side not the top.
    Rack mounts are fine for things that you whose knobs and buttons you 
    don't have to push very often.

    With the table-top design, it's easier to push the buttons, read
    the labels and displays, etc.  Also, you can take the HR-16 
    anywhere (it isn't stuck in your rack) you find convenient to do 
    drum programming, set it up on a table.
    
    Some folks do their drum programming using sequencers (PC's, MC-500,
    ESQ-1, etc.) and only use their drum machines like a tone generator.
    But I think most folks do their drum programming using the sequencer
    in the drum machine since these are designed specifically to
    facilitate drum programming.
    
    Some folks have wished that Alesis would produce a rack-mounted
    sequencer-less (and cheaper) version of the HR-16, but we know of
    no such plans.  There aren't many such devices on the market right
    now so it's not clear there's much of a market for them.
    
    	db

>Some folks have wished that Alesis would produce a rack-mounted
>sequencer-less (and cheaper) version of the HR-16, but we know of
>no such plans.  There aren't many such devices on the market right
>now so it's not clear there's much of a market for them.

    Let's see.. a drum machine with sampled sounds and no internal
    sequencer would be a.. rackmount sampler ! 
    
    LOTS of companies make those !
    
karl

    re .148, .149
    
    There was no demand for spreadsheets before the first one either....
    
    And yes, Karl, that's what I'm looking for - a dedicated sample
    player for drum machine purposes.  If I wanted a fully general sampler
    I'd buy one.
    
    len.
    

If any of you Roland S50 owners are interested, I have sampled the HR16
onto the S50, along with some live drums, finger snaps, tambourine, and
other drum machines. I would be happy to copy the disk for you.

dave

    YIPPEEE! Only Guitar Shop, in Albany NY, had 3 HR-16's unspoken
    for.  They now have two and mine is in the Fed-Ex to me.
    (As of 19:30 24-Feb-1987)
    
    Their phone number is (518) 371-1232.  Ask for Phil and tell them
    that Bill Yerazunis, of DECMS, sent you.   
    
    They take all flavors of plastic and don't charge sales tax to
    shipments out of state.
    
    

    How much?

    Last nite I encountered another problem with the HR-16.
    
    My guess is that this is a general problem with certain kinds of
    drum sounds.  The exact problem I had last nite was that I wanted
    to add an 8th note  Cabasa/Shaker-type pattern.
    
    What I find is that the contour of those sounds is such that when
    you quantize them (so that they appear ON the 8th note), they sound
    like they're "late".   That is, the peak of the sound is noticeably
    behind the beat.
    
    Anyone else experienced this kind of thing?
    
    I'm planning to do one of the following:
    
    	1) Live with it
    
    	   If there's one thing I've learned about drum programming
    	   it's that if something doesn't really "work" for some reason
    	   but the piece still sounds better with it than without it,
    	   mix it down real low.   For example, don't put a cheesey
    	   sounding crash sound anywhere near the front of the mix.
    	   It will be less intrusive that way even if the dynamics
    	   aren't quite what you intended them to be.
    
    	   So I'll probably put this sound way back in the background.
    
    	2) Enter it in step mode and put the notes slightly ahead of
           the beat.
    
    	3) Try doing it in unquantized real-time mode.
    
    	db

    
    I for one would buy the rack mount version just because I wouldn't
    use any of the buttons.  I would do the majority of my  sequencing
    with the MAC.  I want to have all my data in one place, on the MAC.
    I want to use one interface,  the MAC.  Granted,  if my  MAC  goes
    out to lunch, my musical appetite would grow quite hungry, but for
    the most part the MAC is a good place for all of it.
    
    What I want is a sequencer-less rack mount sampled drum synth.  It
    doesn't necessarily have to do any  sampling,  have  many  buttons,
    or for that matter have much of a display.  I just want it to  sit
    there and listen to what I send it so I  may  listen  to  what  it
    sends back.  It should be one unit high and weigh in at under $300.
    
    Zach

    I just bought an MT-32 for the same reason. I really want to have
    either a sequencer or a computer control my drum tempo. I thought
    that the MT-32 sounded good enough for me. I don't have much room
    for anything else that can't be put in a Rack Mount, or similar
    enclosure, for my Live efforts. The HR-16 sounds real nice, but
    I've found that most on-board sequencers are just something else
    to play with & get mad at. I guess it depends on what your goals
    are.
    
    							Jens

The Wurlitzer store chain says that they have received 12 HR16s at the
receiving warehouse. Most of them have been pre-sold, but they will try
to have a few units available at the Wurlygig next friday, Mar. 4th They
expect more units by then. It looks like Alesis is finally shipping in
quantity after experiencing hardware difficulties which stopped shipment
for awhile (this is grapevine not gospel). I predict that these things
will be thick as fleas and selling for $399 within 1988. The Korg DDD-5s
are down to $399 at most stores now.

dave

    I got my HR-16 last week. WOW! nice machine, it's gonna be a long
    time before this marginal drummer exploits all the features of this
    new machine....it'll even do decent rolls! I'm very pleased with
    it both sound wise and programming wise...jst have to get used to
    the new display (yecch! I agree the 'window' is too narrow) I like
    the way it step programs vs the roland....
    
    dave

    I'm still waiting...
    
    :^(

    Edd,
     It's worth the wait. I spent 10-12 hours with it this weekend.
    The demo stuff in the machine will make you feel somewhat impotent
    as a drummachine operator unless you're very good...
     
    As others have noted the display is somewhat lacking. I think I
    prefer the roland  display, as for programmability this thing is
    awesome no matter which mode you use, step programming is much easier
    than Roland, you don't have to exit to change sounds, you just hit
    that pad, the diplay then gives you the pad name and the velocity
    information. resolution is very high 1/384 of a note! I had the
    snare doing tight rolls that I could make sound like a lawnmower,
    guess I'll have to write some industrial strength punk or thrash
    stuff...
    
    the quantizing is a bit wierd, instead of moving from beat to beat
    you subdivide the beats by fractions of a 96th ie: 00/96,
    12/96,24/96,36/96,48/96 etc...the distance is determined by the
    resolution of the quantize button, from 1/4 to 1/384. It takes abit
    of getting used to. youc an also use different quantize settings
    for each sound so it's very flexable.
    
    hang in there Edd
    
    dave                            
    

    Gee, I'd like to, um, 'thank' Dave and all the other noters who
    have written reviews, sent me mail, or called me on the phone just
    to wax rhapsodic about their HR-16s. You folks can't realize how
    these glowing accolades make the wait soooooooo much easier!
    
    May you quantize yourselves into a tizzy....
    
    ;^)
    
    Edd

    Even if I had a PC I would still use the sequencer on the drum machine
    to program the drum tracks.  The architecture of the drum machine
    sequencer is much more convenient for programming drum tracks than
    then general purpose sequencing provided by the PC-based sequencers
    I've seen.
    
    I have an ESQ-1 (sequencer/synth) and still program drums on the
    HR-16.
    
    The issue of having everything in one place is in fact a non-issue.
    
    It is literally trivial to program drum tracks on the HR-16 and then
    load them into into a track on a sequencer.  In fact, this is what
    I do.

    Dave Bottom, 
    
    What kind of demo did you get with your HR-16.  Mine was pretty
    limited.  Only used about the first 9 patterns or so.
    
    Perhaps you could send it to me on your next commusic submission
    tape?
    
    Now, that reminds me of another question I have for owners of very
    recently aquired HR-16s.
    
    I don't know how to use the tape dump feature.  The reason being
    that the manual that came with mine was a sorta quickie field test
    type thing probably done on a mac.  It makes allusions to tape sync
    and tape dump and stuff like that but doesn't document it.
    
    What kind of manual came with yours?
    
    Just this weekend I discovered that I hadn't sent in my registration
    card so perhaps they'll send me the final manual when they receive
    my registration card.
    
    	db

    
    
    re .163
    
    Dave, I got mine about a month ago, and it had the first 50 or so
    patterns filled with factory stuff.  There wasn't too much of it
    that excited me though.  The manual I got isn't very big, and only
    the first half is for the HR-16.  The second half is for the
    sequencer (don't remember the model #)  Mine also looks like it
    was done on a MAC or something.  I'll check tonight to see if it
    really gets into dumping onto tape.  I'm not sure if it does, cuz
    I haven't had to do this yet....getting close though.
    
    Ralph
    
    

    dave the first thing I did was dump the factory set up to tape.
    It's fairly simple the HR will prompt you for most of the actions
    tonight I'll write my self a note to bring the book in and give
    you the instructions as the book has them.
    
    the factory set up used about 50 patterns and 8 songs (I think)
    the song #5 had a thing they did with the clav and triangle using
    them tuned to play a melody line...I was impressed...someday perhaps
    in a year or so I should be able to program stuff like that too....
                                                               
    I'll dump it onto a cassette and send it off to ya...
    
    dave

    OK, you guys must have got a more recent demo than I did.
    
    What came on my machine wasn't interesting enough to be worth
    saving (5 patterns or so spread among 2-3 songs).
    
    From what I know, my machine is among the very first shipped so
    it's not surprising that you got a different (better) demo set.
    
    From Ralph's description of the manual, it sounds like we got the
    same manual.  I read it cover-to-cover.  There might have been
    more description of the tape dump than I remember, but I know that
    the tape-sync stuff was not described hardly at all in the manual
    that came with mine (also has the MMT-8 manual).
    
    	db

    My RX has 50 ROM patterns. Can't erase 'em, never use 'em. Just
    a waste of space to me.
    
    Does the mythical HR-16 have any hardwired patterns? 
    
    Edd

    No hardwired patterns on the HR-16.

     	Just struck me that if any of you folks are having problems
    getting hold of one of these rhythm boxes, you might like me to
    pick one up from town for you and post it over. 
    
    Lessee now, 499 pounds must be about 890 dollars -- plus post
    and packing...
    
    Richard.

    Shane says mine is being UPS'd to me as we speak....
    
    Finally.
    
    Now all I need is an ESQ-1 and I'll sound like everyone else.
    
    ??
    
    Nah....
    
    
    Edd

    Edd you'll love it!...hmm reminds me of a joke about and IBM
    salesman...
    
    good price too! (same as mine)
    
    dave

    <this note retyped in from the "other" commusic file>
    	
    There are really only four bugs I've found with the HR-16:
    	
    	1) Display needs a contrast control.
        
    	2) MIDI jacks are recessed a tad far for certain cable ends.
                                            
    	3) You can't step-time backwards (but this can probably be fixed
    		with a new ROM (grey matter, can you hear me?)
    	
    	4) The power-input jack is a piece of junk and should be replaced
    		with a real power connector.  Mine will be, Radio Shack
    		part number 276-mumble, Real Soon Now.  I don't know
    		why Alesis sprung for the really good audio jacks they
    		used, and then dumped a $.29 retail 1/8 jack in.    
    
    
    While I had mine apart, I found out that the HR-16 pads are NOT
    velocity sensitive.  Really!  They're just switches, and the backing
    P.C. card has four piezoelectric transducers epoxied to the card.
    The piezo sensors detect the impact shock of a pad hit and translate
    that into "velocity" sense. 
    
    So maybe we should call them "shock-sensitive" pads instead of
    "velocity-sensitive" pads?  :-)
    	
    	-Bill
    

    re .172:
    
    Don't forget the other bug: you don't seem to be able to get an
    HR16 at all if you live in the top right bit of America.
    
    Richard.

    re .173
    
    I've learned that all one needs to do is located *1* HR-16 and
    12 others will fall outta the woodwork. Probably cheaper.
    
    Edd

    Yep; now that I have one, at $449, there will be 20 of them at E.U.
    Wurlitzers tonight for $399.
                            
    TANJ!
    
    	-Bill
    

re: -1

There will be about 6 HR16s at the Wurlygig. First come, first
served. The entire store chain got 20. Sorry for the confusion.

dave

    While we're talking about the far-east dumping mass quantities of
    commodity drum machines, I should mention that my favorite music store,
    Pianos 'n Stuff (Blawnox PA, area code 412) is blowing out Korg DDD-1s
    for $395.00.
    
    Steph

    re: bug list 
    
    I wrote Alesis and told them all of this and more..short dissertation
    on both the notesfile and usenet traffic about the HR-16 being
    vaporware....
    
    dave

    
    I spoke with Shane minutes before this was to go in the mail....
    (I've blanked out the Marketing Mgr.'s name.)
     
                             *     *     *
             
Mr. **** ****, Marketing Mgr. 
Alesis Studio Electronics
P.O. Box 3908 
Los Angeles, CA. 90078
February 24, 1988

Dear Mr. ****;

Alesis's latest HR-16 advertisement strikes me as oxymoronic. Patience,
it would seem, is mandatory.

Sometime in December I actually touched one of these units, an action
I've been unable to duplicate since. The 16 bit samples were most impressive.
So much so, in fact, that I put a $50 deposit down and ordered one.
Little did I think that I'd still be waiting for the unit at the end of
February.

Since I regularly speak with musicians all over the US and Europe via
computer network, I've detected a disturbing trend. Almost everyone (in the 
US) is being told by their respective dealers that the machines should be 
available in "two weeks". "Two weeks", regardless of when the question
was posed. My "two weeks" has evolved into better than two months. 

Rumor has it that the units are readily available in Europe. Could this
be true? While I can certainly appreciate any business's desire to 
maximize profit by selling overseas, I'd assume that the company would
pay equal heed to it's domestic user-base.

As a small studio owner, the price/performance ratio of any piece of
equipment is very important to me. Alesis, has rightfully gained a
reputation of being a pioneer in this respect. Unfortunately, the
unprecedented delay in the US distribution of the HR-16 is forcing 
me to re-examine my decision to purchase this unit.

Should I cut my losses now, or can I believe that Alesis will soon make
HR-16s reasonably available?


Regards,






Edd Cote

    Eh, I take back one of my buglist entries: the power jack on my
    HR-16 is NOT flakey-
    	
    -the cord from the wall bug to the 1/8" plug is!
    	
    I discovered this by swapping wall-bugs with a friend who has an
    MMT-8.
    	
    	-Bill
    

    Add another complaint (and HR-16 users be warned):
    
    I made some experiments last night and concluded that the "Check
    tape" operation is *NOT* a verify operation in the classic sense.
    That is, it does not verify that what is on the tape is an exact
    reflection of what is in memory.
    
    It seems to only verify that the tape has intelligible data on it.
    
    I'm not very comfortable with this.
    
    Also based on my experiments I strongly recommend that if you get
    errors reading a tape in, RESET the machine.  To do this, you turn
    it off, depress ERASE, DELETE and RECORD simulataneously, turn the
    machine on while holding those buttons downs.
    
    In almost every case, reading a bad tape screwed up internal memory
    and sometimes that was't apparent until you've done a few things
    after the tape read.
    
    BTW, the bad tape reads causes all kinds of funny stuff to show
    up on the screen like EEEAAAYYY!!!!!XXX and "?@#$&*#" (is that
    some form of explitives?)
    
    The good news is that I saving and load tapes I made with my own
    machine work really well.  No problems at all.   The potential
    bad news is that I had problems reading a tape made on another
    HR-16.
    
    God, y'know.  I love the sound of this thing but having had it for
    some time now I'm somewhat dissapointed with the limitations of
    the sequencer and things like this.   The best thing I can say for
    it is that it sounds great.   In almost every other metric there
    are other machines that beat it hands down.

    GOD DAMN IT I WANT TO BE ABLE TO STEP BACKWARDS!!!!!
    
    I hereby go on record as saying step mode on the HR-16 sucks (mainly
    but not entirely because of this).
    
    I also want to be have a step function that ALWAYS steps one quantum
    evenn if several notes appear during that quantum.  I often can't
    tell where I am in the pattern because of this.  (OK, this particular
    gripe may be somewhat renegade in nature - I don't know if other
    folks have this problem).   I don't write out my patterns, nor
    do I typically have a good conception of where anything with a finer
    resolution of an 8th note is during a pattern.
    
    I also have trouble converting 
    
    			"1+2+3+4+"
    
    to
    
    	Beat + X/96
    
    Where step is beat (based on time signature denominator) + bar #
    times time signature denominator.
    
    and X is ....  aw heck, I'm too busy to type in the function
    for figuring out X.
    
    I'm gonna be on the horn to Alesis about a few things (yes, Edd,
    I'll bend their ears about delivery).  I'm hoping that one day
    they offer an upgrade (most of my complaints are probably addressable
    via software).
    
    	db

    dave after you get done with them post their phone number to me and
    I'll tell 'em a few things myself...if the verify function does
    not actually verify the data to be identical I'm very upset....
    
    I didn't have the problems with step programming that you do after
    I got used to the display, in fact I like it better than my old
    707, although you need to be careful when deciding how to quanitize
    the notes.
    
    I do agree  with one point though "Goddammit I want to step backwards"
    
    me too!
    
    Hoping for a software upgrade....
    
    dave

    Re: verify...
    
    None of my Yamaha stuff actually does a full verification. It does
    do a check digit type thing...
    
    Edd

    
    Re: verify
    
    A checksum or parity check is OK *if* you can show that it will
    fail if the data is trashed. 
    
    If you can write your version of "Louie Louie" to tape and then
    verify the write by loading in "Lester Leaps In" then you've got
    a problem.....
    
    

See note 1064.71 for Alesis contact info.

RE: HR programming

How about programming sequences on your old obsolete machine with your favorite
editing features, and then dumping said sequences to HR?  Or even more
general, how about programming your favorite generic MIDI sequencer, and then
dumping to HR?

Todd.

    re: .186
    
    Actually I have considered doing this.
    
    I sorta concluded that it wasn't the best way to do things.  There
    are several problems involving dynamics and the differences in sounds
    (some things work or don't work depending on the sound).  I think
    using the RZ for this would introduce a limiting factor which is
    sorta hard to explain objectively.
    
    I can "live" with the HR-16 step mode.  I guess the three major
    things I don't like are:
    
    	1) Lack of ability to step backwards
    
    	2) I'd rather see bars/beats/sub-beats than beat/beat fraction
    
    	3) Ability to step one quantum at a time regardless of how many
    	   notes exist in that quantum.  On my RZ I often used my finger
    	   as a sorta external clock to locate things.
    
    Another thing I'd really like to see:
    
    	1) Ability to erase notes in real-time.  On my RZ-1 holding
    	   ERASE while pressing a drum pad caused all notes on that
    	   pad to be erased while the pad was held down.  This is
    	   very handy for getting rid of the occasional bum note, or
    	   little fills that don't work or whatever.
    
    I'm beginning to think that the sequencer on my RZ-1 was actually
    pretty darn sophisticated and well human-engineered compared lots
    of other stuff I've come across.
    
    	db

    The user interface on my RX seems like utopia compared to the HR.
    
    Edd

    Last night, while MIDIhacking, I heard a horrible BRURRRP from the
    speakers.  When the BRURRRP subsided, all of the HR-16 drum sounds had
    a long, quavering metallic sustain, completely unlike a reverb in
    that the timbre was, if anything, very high and harmonic-rich.
    	
    PANIC!  Have I fried my HR-16 _already_?  Try it from the front
    panel instead of the Octapad.  TING, TING.  yep, still there...
    It sounds wonderful, but still...  if this is a failure, is the
    HR-16 now stable, or will this beautiful sound soon go up in smoke
    with the '16s circuit board...I want my drums back...I don't want
    to lose this sound...
    
    
    Alas, I found the "problem" and can now reproduce it at will.  It's
    just a MIDI loop/channel assignment goof that caused the ESQ-1 to play
    the MIAMIW patch in synchrony with the HR-16 drum sounds.  Here's
    the layout:
    	
    -------------------------------------------------
    |                                               |
    --> ESQ-1 ---> Octapad ---> HR-16 ---> DX-100-->|
                                                    
    Chan  1          1,2,3        1           3
                              (should have
    				been 2)
        
    Moral: try mixing a sampled percussive sound with a metallic or
    Oberheim-like synthesized sound.  Truly a wonderful result...
    	
    	-Bill
    

    I have an HR-16 set up on my desk as we speak...
    
    Edd

    Re: .190
    
    In a surprise press conference today, the sales manager of Alesis
    announced that the HR-16 would be discontinued.
    
    "Now that we have shipped our last production unit to a customer
    in Millbury, MA, we have sold one to every human being on the planet
    Earth"
    
    
    8^)   8^)   8^)   8^)   8^)   8^)   8^)   8^)
    
    
    
     
   

    Re: .191
    
    Phew, you scared me. I was anticipating the announcement of the
    HR-16 Mark II, 32 bit resolution, user sampling, 1.5 hours of
    sampling time, 1024 on board samples. $19.95
                 
    Edd

    Hey!! This thing doesn't respond to pitch-bend!!!
    
    Trash...
    
    Edd

Edd - (f i n a l l y!) (hooray for you!)

db - hey, maybe my naivete is showing, but I could have sworn
I deleted (erased) some notes in the middle of a pattern during 
a playback loop ...what do you mean erase notes real-time?

also - somebody - explain to me how the tape function works.
explain it like  you're talking to a moh-ron. i is 1.  what kind
of jack...what kind of recorder... the pamphlet they
jokingly call a manual said really nothing concerning this...
it assumes you know...well...i *don't* know.

    re -2 .. Eddddddie, where's your smiley faces ?
    
    re -1 .. Hey Butch, I thought programming a box was no big deal..
    
    (psst.... nobody help him..)
    
    karl

    Hey db..I think unless I misunderstand you that you can do exactly
    what the RZ appears to have done ie: erase in real time. you press
    erase (or is that delete??) and hold down the drum pad you wish
    to erase for the time you wish to erase and it does in fact erase.
    or alternatly with the machine stopped you can erase the entire
    pattern by pressing erase and the pad you wish to erase...
                  
    I'm gonna be in LKG the last week of this month (29, 30, 31 heading
    home the 31st though so I may pass on the LERDS-BIM) any 707 owners
    wanna try loading my old sequences into this new beast via MIDI?
    Or we can skip that and just mess around...
              
    dave
    
    ps: Butch are you really into sequenced music now? I thought that
    was a joke at first...this box is a bit sophistocated and not exactly
    user friendly...fun huh?

    Tape: just plug a 1/8" to phono cable into the TAPE 2 input of your
    stereo preamp, set tape 1 to dub from tape 2, plug the 1/8" into the
    HR-16 tape out, start the tape #1 recorder, and do a tape dump.  Set
    the levels for about 0 dB (on your record meters), no NR. 
    	                                 
    To load and verify: same as above, except put the tape recorder
    into play, the dub from tape 1 to tape 2, and the 1/8" into the
    TAPE IN on the HR-16, while keeping the deflector shields raised
    and the bowsp'rit to windward. 
     
    Easy as pie.                 :-)
    
    --------------------------
                               
    Erasing: 
    
    I could swear I've deleted individual drum-hits in realtime record
    mode by holding ERASE and holding the appropriate pad during the
    offending event.... You do know that to erase a hit in steptime
    mode you have to press and hold ERASE and then press RECORD?
                                  
    --------------------------
    
    Power supply:
    	
    I definitely have a wimped-out wallbug.  Intermittent bad inside the
    1/8 plug.                       
    		:-(
    
    	-Bill
    

Yeah, I know what you're thinking.

Well, it's still no big deal.  But yes, I  needed  to  start getting 
into it.

I thought using the HR16 (maybe we should start a new note? nahh...) 
was  simple.  I just got it at the Wurly-whiz bang.  Took it home... 
programmed (yech, I hate that word!)  my  first  pattern  5  minutes 
after  taking it out of the box, checked out about 20 of the samples 
within 10 minutes...heck, I -expect- a computer to  do  easy  stuff, 
that's why I said it was no big deal. Not having had experience with 
other drum samples or trying to 'program'  (yech!)  a  drum  machine 
before,  I  don't  think  this  one  is  any  big  weenie  as far as 
difficulty.  I just don't  know  any  better!  The  only  thing that 
stalled  me  in  the  first  couple  minutes of use was 'length' and 
'quantization'. Now I start with 16 beats at 1/64 & seem to be doing 
ok...I  can  slice in my 16th notes with no probs.  Using the finger 
pads is a pain, I'll grant you.   But  the  octapad  makes  it like, 
totally bitchin'!

As  far as sequencing: I'm still not into it so much yet.  I'm using 
the 16 to program (hoch-ptui!) some rythmns to race against to build 
my chops.  That's about it so far.  Eventually I'll probably succumb 
to sequencing on tape for fun and profit...I'll admit  it's  a  good 
gimick  for building and practicing (and taping) songs with.  I hear 
the sequencer in the HR16 isn't that good...    shows  what  I know. 
Maybe an MC500 is next...nahh...

Like  I always maintained, sequencing is terrif in it's own right. I 
think it's bogus (at least, this is  still  -today's-  opinion!)  to 
play with sequencing on stage...(that always was my position). Maybe 
I've modified my position as far as soundtracks.  I know most of the 
movie  soundtracks  these  days  are from 2 guys in a MIDI studio in 
east L.A. somewhere!

I admit I've also adapted my position on sampling somewhat.   Live & 
learn.   Yah, I'm gettin' into it.  I hate to admit it, but the HR16 
toms sounded better on tape than my acoustics.   But  it's  apples & 
oranges...the HR16 samples don't use 'deadringers' on the heads like 
I do, so it's two different sounds. The acoustics still sound better 
live (as opposed to on tape) than the samples. The Latin effects are 
really super, though.  (ie, a  sampled  Timbale  is  better  than no 
Timbale!) After I spend some more time fine tuning both my drums and 
the HR16, I won't  be  able  to  tell  the  difference  between  the 
acoustics and the samples. 

Ps, a good samaritan dropped by &  explained  everything  a  moh-ron 
like me needed to know about dumping hr16 memory to tape.  

Now, back to business...anybody need 'a killuh drum patch' cheap?
Har har har...!

                                          

RE: erasing beats in real time

It works for me.  Set it to pattern mode.  Press record AND play
to enter real time record mode.  Hold erase, and depress the drum
you want to cut on the appropriate beats.

One caveat -- it will only erase beats which are 'definable' at the
current quantize step.  If you record an eighth note ride, switch
to 1/4 quantize, and try to erase, you can only erase the hits ON
THE QUARTER NOTES.  Switch to quantize at 1/8, 1/16, 1/24, or...
and it'll let you erase the off-beat hits.

If you recorded with quantize 'OFF', you're on your own. :-)


RE: tape save

The tape jack in the back is a 'mini plug'.  Rat Shack has a bunch
of cabling variations, I got one with a mini plug on one end and
a RCA phono plug on the other.  The HR-16 'tape out' is connected to
my cassette recorder 'tape in', and vice-versa. (duh).

Hold the 'UTILITIES' button, and step through the menu to the one that
says 'SAVE ALL PATTERNS AND SONGS TO TAPE'.  Press the RECORD button.
It will start to dump the pattern, so you can set the record levels
on your cassette.  I used -3dB or so.  If you can, disable dolby.

When the 'practice' dump is finished, start recording on the cassette,
redo the steps to 'SAVE ALL...TO TAPE' and watch it happen.

There's a verify item on the menu to check to integrity of the tape
copy.  I had to crank the cassette playback outputs up all the way to
get the verify to work.

Save it all SOON.  My HR-16 went to OZ last Friday night due to a power
glitch when I turned on the amp.  I took it back to Wurlies Saturday.
A master reset cured it, but everything in memory was lost.

Enjoy,
Dave

    I just tried erasing one instrument from a pattern.
    
    While in RECORD press ERASE and then whatever instrument you want
    to disappear. Any time that sound was to happen during the time
    the ERASE button was depressed, won't....
    
    That explanation doesn't read good, do it?

    Isn't it precious the way little Butchy took to this MIDI stuff?
    
    :^)*20
    
    Edd

    Hmm my HR-16 went to OZ once too....I had just finished veryfying
    the tape save of the factory demo...(whew!) then the display suddenly
    looked like this:
    
    ###@$%^^^^^&%$#@@@
    
    I turned it off and back on again and it was empty....not one pattern
    not one song....reloaded off the tape just fine though...
    
    dave
    
    

    OK, I remember making an experiment to see if it would erase in
    real time but maybe I spazzed out and didn't try it while it was
    in record mode or something stupid like that.
    
    Glad to hear it but....
    
    DAMNIT, I *STILL* WANT BACKWARDS STEPPING.
    
    	db

    
    
    Hey Edd, are you at work???
    
    We have a diehard commusicer in our midst!
    
    Ralph
    
    

    Yep, I'm at work. I've got the HR set up right between my 2 CRT's.
    
    I'm driving my walkman headphones from the HR audio out. (Got the
    male phone plug pulled out partially so that a signal goes to each
    side.) It's not very loud...
    
    Edd

    Well, let's see, the sounds are wonderful, blah, blah, blah...
    
    I found my first "bug" at 4:38 this morning. (Doesn't *everybody*
    get up early to play in the studio?)
    
    Le bug: The HR doesn't support EXTERNAL CLOCK ONLY. It supports
    EXT and INT together and supposedly has some logic to know the
    difference. Phhtt...
    
    I set up a simple one bar pattern. Kick drum on every beat, snare
    on 2 and 4, closed high hat on eighths. Simple no? Quantize was
    set to 1/16. This should give me 4 discrete steps per 1/4 note,
    00/96, 24/96, 48/96 and 72/96. 
    
    Everything looks cool as I step in the first instrument, kick.
    Then things got wierd. The second time I step through the measure
    I find myself landing on shit like 20/96, 92/96, 68/96, etc.
    You get the picture.
    
    Problem is caused by the *presence* of the MIDI clock supplied by
    my sequencer. Shutting off the sequencer and letting the HR clock
    itself produced normal results. 
    
    I have to find away around this...
    
    Edd
    

    I just got off the phone with Alesis.
    
    I explained the problem I outlined earlier regarding external clocking.
    
    His comment? "Bizarre..." 
    
    Well, to him it's bizarre, to me it's a Royal Pain In the Tuckus.
    I'm hoping to swap mine out with another one before I start screaming
    "bugs". Hey Butch, ol' buddy, ol' pal!! You said you wanted to see
    my set-up...
    
    Edd

    hey Edd did you give 'em a full report?
               
    I still haven't called...
    
    dave

    Uh, in light of the fact that I may have a bug, I felt it best,
    ah, let bygones be bygones....
    
    Edd

    
    Edd, Dave, tell ya what.....my Roland TR-626 steps backwards...
    I'll trade you  mine for yours plus I give you $75 bucks and I
    pay postage!!!!
    
    Honestly!!!!
    

    Ashley_who_DOES_live_in_L.A._and_programs_everything_but_rolls_in_real_time
   _and_is_such_a_neanderthal_he_uses_display_statements_instead_of_the_debugger

    Geez, the HR-16 is sure getting a lot of attention in the notes file.
    Either you can't find one, it's broken, doesn't program the way
    you want, or you get mad at it. I wonder if Alesis realized what
    a monster that it has created?
    
    								Jens

Newsgroups: rec.music.synth
Path: decwrl!hplabs!hp-sdd!ucsdhub!esosun!seismo!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!MICHAEL_ANDRE_ORTEGA
Subject: Help! Alesis HR-16 Sys. exc. info needed
Posted: 8 Mar 88 22:42:51 GMT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
XPortal-User-Id: 1.1001.2427
 
Help! I would like to know what header bytes are needed to start a sys.
exc. dump from a HR-16 drum machine. I tried calling Alesis technical service
dept. in L.A. at 213 467-8000 and the tech told me that they didn't know
since they sub-contracted the software to another company. The only thing
they did know was there manufacture ID ( which is $0E ). I requested the
name of the company who wrote the code for them and they are under contract
to withhold that information. It seems to me that they either don't want to
get involved with the consumers problems or don't want to call to find out
for themselves. They suggested useing the tape interface ( YECH!!! ) who
wants to carry around a tape recorder just to save the pattern info?
The reason this doesn't make sense is the HR-16 produces 49 sounds which are
assigned to 16 pads. The pads will accept midi note on info and not the
49 different sounds. Therfore the only thing a midi sequencer can store are
which pads were used and not which sounds were assigned to the pads. Forcing
us to use the tape interface or a sys.exc. dump for song and pattern data.
any help would be greatly appreciated.      Michael Andre Ortega
Michael_Ortega@cup.portal.com    or 408-426-8379 voice
    

    I tried a little experiment last night with the HR and my JX3P. I
    hooked MIDI out of the HR to the MIDI in of the JX and entered the
    velocity sensitive mode onthe JX and fired off the HR and nno sound was
    coming forth form the JX...well I exited velocity sensitive mode (power
    cycle off/on) and the JX played ok. Based on this I suspect that the
    velocity values the HR transmits over MIDI are low values in terms of
    normality. So I built a pattern with velocity of 8 (highest HR velocity
    value) and cranked the JX into velocity mode again and occasionally I
    would get a faint thud out of the JX.(was using a bass guitar patch) So
    for those of you midiots who have a more sophistocated system than mine
    have you examined the midi velocity values associated with the HR's 8
    velocity levels? I'm mainly curious to see what the values are and
    how they relate to normal velocity values of other midi devices.
    I suspect that the value of 8 internal to the HR16 is not anywhere
    near the max MIDI value (128??).     
    
    dave apprentice midiot

    Does anybody else hear a hum behind their samples?
    
    ...sounds like 60hz, more noticeable on long decay samples like
    the cymbals. Totally lost in the mix....
    
    I'm trying to decide whether mine has a problem...
    
    Edd

    Hey edd no hum that I noticed....mayhaps you do have a problem
                                                           
    dave
    
    ps: re 214 dejavu!

    re: .214
    
    That's a duplicate of .212
    
    re: Dave Bottom
    
    
    Dave, 
    
    From what I can tell, the HR-16 maps MIDI IN velocity levels correctly.
    I've played it from my ESQ-1 keyboard and it seems to respond 
    appropriately to the full range of MIDI velocity values.
    
    Given this, what you are suggesting is that the HR maps volume
    differently on OUT than it does on IN.  I have reason to believe
    it doesn do that.
    
    I create my patterns on the HR and then load them into the ESQ-1
    sequencer via HR MIDI OUT.  They play back fine.  If the mappings
    were different between IN and OUT it would play back with decreased
    volume and a narrower range of dynamics, but it doesn't.
    
    My guess is that the problem is with the JX.   It sounds like it
    has some funniness about velocity.  Or perhaps it has received a
    MIDI volume command that sets the volume low.  That would have
    the same symptom as you describe. 
    
    	(For example, when the ESQ-1 receives a MIDI Volume 8, it has
    	pretty much the same effect as mapping MIDI velocities 1-64 to
    	MIDI velocities 1-8.)
    
    	db
    
    

    Dave Blick....
    
    What are you using as the master clock in your set-up??
    
    Edd

    re: Edd
    
    My HR is about the quietest piece in my rig.
    
    No noise at all.
    
    Face it Edd, you just weren't meant to have an HR-16.  ;-)
    
    Perhaps you oughta take up this offer (from .210):
    
>    Edd, Dave, tell ya what.....my Roland TR-626 steps backwards...
>    I'll trade you  mine for yours plus I give you $75 bucks and I
>    pay postage!!!!
    
>    Honestly!!!!
    
    Such a deal...  

    	db

    THe master clock in my setup is the ESQ-1.
    
    I really didn't understand the problem you described in .206.
    
    I *do* have what might be a related problem but it may just be that
    I misunderstood the description in my manual which I'm told is a
    sorta early field test manual.
    
    My problem is that I can't get the HR-16 to ignore MIDI "clock starts"
    (or whatever nomenclature they use for that).  There is a MIDI/UTIL
    thing that's supposed to get it to ignore starts, but it doesn't
    seem to work in EXT&INT clock mode.
    
    The problem is that whenever I press play, it causes the sequencer
    to start running.  It does run off the MIDI clock from the ESQ but
    since I have the ESQ-1 sending notes to the HR, it means that each
    note gets played twice (once thru MIDI, once thru the HR-16 sequencer).
    
    Currently I just press the HR STOP button when I push the ESQ play
    button.  I've just been ultra lazy.  I could probably figure out
    what's going on my reading the manual again.  There is a table in
    my manual that explains what happens in the various clock modes.
    
    	db

    Yeah... :^(
    
    Hopefully, I can find someone to bring theirs to my house so I can
    play swappy-feely...
    
    Noise in the sample.
    
    External clock problem.
    
    Edd

    I think that "clock start" utility suppresses the HR-16 from generating
    starts.
    
    I did a work-around on my clock problem by using the HR as the master.
    By disabling that parameter, I could press HR START and my sequencer
    would just sit there...
    
    It's becoming painfully obvious why the company who wrote the software
    requested to remain anonymous....
    
    Edd

    My HR-16 has no noise to speak of.  Extremely quiet- probably better
    than 90 dB of quiet...
    	
    Can somebody pull the EPROM and disassemble the code stored therein?
    	
    	:-)
    	
    	-Bill 
    

    re: .220 i fI read your note correctly then I think that setting
    the midi/util to internal only should solve that problem...I think
    
    Edd...can you say something to me about JX3P velocity upgrade? My
    velocity seems to be OTL when driven from the HR16, this is the
    first time I've tried to use the velocity function on the JX since
    I upgraded it...at first I thought I was on the wrong channel....
    
    
    dave

    I could do a dump on our prom blaster here...any heavies on
    disassembly? Is the eeprom in a socket??
    
    what micro was that?? Do I remember the 8048 or something like
    that being mentioned earlier?
    
    dave

    What would you like to know? (Not that I'm an expert on the upgrade,
    mind you, but I'm not sure what you're looking for me to address.)
    
    Edd

    
    	Hey Edd, 'bout that hummmmmmm.
    
    	Check the input voltage setting, you may have an, "export reject"
    model that's still set to 230V.
    
    	R
    

    re: hummm....
    
    The hum I have only lasts for the duration of the sample. As soon
    as the sample is finished so's the hum....
    
    When the unit is "idling" it's quiet as an RX21.
    
    Does this throw the 230 volt theory???
    
    Edd
    

    Edd did your JX respone normally to velocity inputs? I assume it
    did...mine apparantly isn't
            
    Question for the real hardware heavies...can a prom be copy protected
    in such a way that you couyld copy it and the checksums would pass
    even though it's screwed up somehow?
    
    I copied my JX upgrade rom so if I by some odd chance blew it through
    poor static control etc. I'd have a backup...I used the copied prom
    rather than the original, perhaps that's why my JX isn't responding
    correctly.....
    
    dave confused midiot

    No, I'd say it responded abnormally. There was no variation
    in timbre (forgivable) but it also took what seemed like an ungodly amount
    of velocity to get the level up.
    
    Edd

    I don't know if this will help with respect to the JX3P/HR16 velocity
    weirdness, but I did discover the following about the Roland TR-707/727
    drum machines: the velocity sent out the MIDI OUT port is a function
    of the volume control level setting!  The TRs support three accent
    levels (no accent, single accent, double accent), each of which
    is mapped to some MIDI velocity;  this velocity is then scaled based
    on the volume control setting.  Pretty cute, eh?

    This has the interesting side effect that if you want to use the
    drum machine a simpleminded sequencer, you have to kill the drum
    volume some place else (e.g., the mixer) rather than at the TR.
    
    I didn't bother to check whether or not the individual voice volume
    sliders affect the transmitted velocity.
    
    This sort of thing is real easy to do with the MC500's "microscope"
    mode.  Anybody wanna loan me their HR-16 for an indeterminate period
    of time so I can check all this out for you?
        
    len.
    

    Re: ROM copy protection.
    
    There are some schemes, but I'm sure they're not worth it on something
    as low-volume as a synth, especially a JX...  Your backups should
    be fine.
    
    Re: The micro in the HR-16.
    
    It is an 8051.  We have millions of them in dec products--terminals and
    all sorts of controllers.  Should be a piece of cake to reverse
    engineer and write your own code.  Might even be fun.
    
    And just think when they interview you in Keyboard:
    
       Keyboard:  You say you like to do all your work with factory
                   presets, is there ANY exception to that rule?
    
       Bottom_David:  Well, I did make an exception in the case of the
               HR16.  I thought the 8051 code was so bad that I wrote
               my own, from scratch.  Sting uses it all over his
               latest album...
    
      (All the characters in the above excerpt, except the punctuation,
         are ficticious)
    
    Seriously, with the way the HRs are selling, an E! like upgrade
    could be pretty lucrative, if the interface is as bad as you people
    indicate.
    
      Steph
                            
    

    Since the HR software seems to be taken lots of gas, why don't
    we compile a list of improvements and fire it off to Alesis?
    
    1. STEP BACKWARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    2. Disable internal clock and recognize MIDI clock only option.
    
    3. A global voice/tune/mix option valid for all patterns except
       by explicit overide. (Gahd, setting up each pattern is such
       a chore....)
    
    4. If set to internal clock and acting as a master, send clock pulse
       ovr MIDI buss to slaves.
    
    
    Any one else?
    
    Edd 

    5.  Mode that causes step keys to always step one quantum regardless
        of how many notes appear in that quantum.  In this mode, the
        name of the pads associated with the notes is NOT displayed.

    6.  Changing the length, voice, mix or tune settings in a "blank"
        pattern should cause the pattern to be considered "non-blank".

    			I consider this to be a bug arising
    			from an oversight.
    
    7.  $29.95 version  ;-)

    7.  NAMES for songs, not just numbers.  Likewise, maybe optional
    	names for patterns.
        
    8.	Dynamic voice assignments: 
    		Mode 1: HR-16 as it comes from Alesis- 2 voices on
    			crash pad, 1 shared between open/mid/closed
    			hat, 14 others@1 each, preallocated.
    		Mode 2: 16 voices at any one time, from any of the 49
    			samples, with oldest-note preemption. (maybe
    			require the MIDI note numbers of the 49 samples
    			to be contiguous numbers).  Of course, you can
    			only play 16 voices from the pads; but you
    			can get to them all with any MIDI keyboard.
    		Mode 3: As mode 2, but any N of the 49 mini-voices can
    			be set to pre-empt each other (like the hi-hats
    			do now)                                    
    
    9:	Also needed but not in the ROM : Shielding kit to keep the drum
    	machine EMI from blathering all over Channel 2 TV.
                                                                   
    10: Software-settable contrast control for the LCD!
    
    

    11. Assign file names or numbers to midi and tape data dumps.
                                   
    
    Len,
     I was going to get in touch with you anyway...I'm going to be in
    LKG the last week of this month for three days...I thought if you
    weren't too busy I'd crash your place and bring my HR16 and my old
    TR707 data dumps and use your 707 to dump from one to the other...
    we could also check out the velocity outputs etc....
    
    Edd,
     Well surprise surprise! Maybe the JX is working ok and the HR is
    working ok. The JX velocity response being as abnormal as you
    say would explain the results I got messing around.....I was starting
    to suspect note off's might have been part of the problem (ie: note
    on followed by note off immediately).
    
    dave

    Kudos to Butch Leitz and Len Fehskens for helping me track down
    my previously stated 'problems' with my HR-16.
    
    1. The hum. The HR-16 is quiet as a churchmouse. The hum I heard
       came from my MIDIVerb. Slap me for being stupid on this one.
    
    2. The clock problem. This one is REAL, and it's not my machine.
       Butch's exhibit the same phenomena on my network and mine exhibited
       the same on len's.
    
       It goes like this...
    
       Define a pattern of n beats. (Let's say 4 for conversation's
       sake.) Also define a quantization factor; let's use 8th notes.
       Connect MIDI in on the HR to MIDI out on another clocking device.
       (I used a QX-7, an RX-21 and an MC-500.) Now step through the
       empty pattern. Each step will put you right where you'd expect
       to be; on beat+0/96 or beat+48/96. No problem so far. Now enter
       a four on the floor kick drum. 1+0/96, 2+0/96, 3+0/96 & 4+0/96.
       Step through the pattern with 1 voice in it and you'll still
       be on the proper quantums. Now try entering a snare on 2+0/96
       and 4+0/96. This will work also. Now is when the problem starts.
       Try stepping through the pattern. You'll start on 1+0/96, but
       the machine immediately picks up an offset on n/96!! 20/96 
       happens often on mine. Stepping through on 8ths lands me at
       1+0/96, 1+68/96, 2+20/96, 2+68/96...4+68/96 and back to 1+0/96
       where it often picks up a new offset and starts over again.
       Offsets on mine have ranged from 4/96 up to 38/96 with some 
       fractions weighted more heavily than others.
    
       Swapping power supplies didn't make a difference. Neither did
       moving the HR closer to the clock source. (My HR is located 4
       'nodes' away from the QX.) The only thing that made ANY differnce
       was the presence of the external clock.
    
       Oddly enough, this only manifests itself during step-time
       programming. In run mode, the HR syncs perfectly to the external
       clock.
    
       All failures were identical and always repeatable.
    
       Edd
    
       P.S. You should hear my patterns to Steely Dan's "Do It Again"!!!

    
    Software was written by Fast Forward Designs, of Venice California.
    This is a group of 2 guys who left Oberheim after designing the
    Matrix synths.  They also came out with a MIDI foot controller.
    Give 'em a call and complain at (213) 822-7882.  I did *not* send
    you.
    
    Ashley_who_still_lives_in_smogland_and_is_willing_to_take_offers_on
    his_TR626_with_sunset_grill_already_programmed_in.

Some good news from USENET:


>After calling Alesis 4 times the service tech. explained that a midi dump
>can be started from the front panel threw the tape interface panel.
>The way to do this is hold down the tape button and press the >  +
>button until the LCD reads  Send Patts and Songs out to MIDI
>Then ( with out lifting your finger from the TAPE button ) press
>the RECORD button. They also stated that a more complete manual was being
>sent out with the newer HR-16's.  
>						MONDRE@cup.portal.com


FWIW

    Is what you're saying that when you enter things in step mode while
    the HR-16 is receiving clock signals, it causes it not to step at
    the right quantum intervals?
    
    If so, while I don't deny that this is a bug, why would you wanna
    have an external clock running while you're programming in step
    mode?
    
    	db

    12. A velocity level that corresponds to silence.
    
        I wanted to produce the sound of a crash cymbal being muted
        by hand shortly after it is struck.
    
        To do this, I had to put the cymbal on one of the HH pads,
        and set another of the HH pads volume level to 0.  Of course,
        I had to shift some of the HH sounds to other pads cause I still
        needed them.  A workable solution, but far from elegant.
    
    BTW, you kiddies who may wish to try this at home should be aware
    that it ain't gonna sound right unless you have a reverb.  The sound
    cuts out too quickly, so you have to sorta smooth it out with reverb.
    
    		Note that even if we got a level 0 velocity
    		it still wouldn't work right cause there are
    		two voices on that one.  You'd have to have
    		2 0 hits in quick sucession,
    
    SET MODE/SOAPBOX
    
    I think that the two voice thing with the crash pads is a non-feature.
    Normally if you have two crashes in close succession they are either:
    
    	a) far enough apart so that the strike of the second one totally
    	   obliterates the almost completely decayed sound of the first
    
    				or
    
     	b) you would play them on different cymbals (I'd think).  On
    	   the HR, this means you'd want them to be tuned differently
    	   i.e. on different pads
    
    However, I still haven't run out of pads for any one pattern, although
    I've been forced to modify the basic "kit" I use for a song on
    individual patterns once or twice.

    	db

    Yep, that's exactly what I'm saying.
    
    Why? Somewhere in any sequencing network you've gotta have a master
    clock source. I find it most convenient to have the sequencer be
    the master clock. 
    
    Mind you, the sequencer doesn't have to be actually running. My
    QX and (apparently) the MC-500 both emit clock signals even when
    they are 'idling'. It's not like I'm trying to step time program
    while the sequencer is playing back.
    
    I've come up with a work-around to the problem by letting the HR
    be the master clock, but it's an alternative I shouldn't be forced
    to take. ANY clock device should be able to drive ANY other without
    glitches.
    
    What surprises is me is that while I'm the last person on earth
    to get an HR-16, I'm the first person to discover this and yet
    I've had a 100% success rate in finding and predicting the bug.
    Maybe it's a problem pertinent only to certain revs of the OS.
    My HR is running V1.06. So is Butch. How about the rest of you?
    
    Edd

>   11 Assign file names or numbers to MIDI and tape data dumps
    
    Before each tape data dump, I always record a sorta "slate"
    like "The next dump is {song title}".
    
    Nice feature, but I'd probably continuing doing it the way I do
    it only because it's easier to listen to the slate than it is
    to go through a read.
    
    On the Ensoniq SQ-80, dumps to the floppy ARE given names.  I think
    you can even do a DIRECTORY.
    
	db

>    Mind you, the sequencer doesn't have to be actually running. My
>    QX and (apparently) the MC-500 both emit clock signals even when
>    they are 'idling'. It's not like I'm trying to step time program
>    while the sequencer is playing back.
    
    While I can't give you any concrete reasons why it shouldn't do
    this, I can only tell you that I'm somewhat disgusted to hear that
    it does do it.
    
    I'd say that both the MC and the HR are at fault, and I'll leave
    it to a higher court to assess the relative degrees of fault.
    
    	db

    >somewhat disgusted...
    
    Actually, I've always found it to be perfect.
    
    Ex:      QX is master clock, always emitting clock. The RX needs
             clock to step time, but it's a nuisance to toggle back
             and forth when I want it to play with the sequencer.
    
    Ex:      I want to real time program drum pattern without the sequencer
             driving the synths. If the sequencer emits clock, I just
             hit record on the drums and I'm off! Still using the QX
             clock...
    
    Indeedly, a constantly running clock and a device that recognizes
    it properly is heaven.
    
    Tell me you don't toggle back and forth, Dave. Please....
    
    Edd

    This is done to maintain synchronization between timed pieces of
    equipment.  The MIDI clock is subdivided by some factor by all these
    pieces, and they must see at least two clock pulses before they
    really ``understand the tempo.''  Granted, this is not a HUGE problem,
    but transmitting the clock continously is the standard solution.
    
    I believe it is also an acceptable behavior to transmit sequencer
    STOP messages at the pace of the MIDI clock when stopped.
    
    I think the HR16 got it wrong.
    
    Steph

    Tonight's assignment class is to try this for yourself.
    
    Edd

    Edd I think I'm running v1.04
    
    dave

    Re: .-1
    
    ...in that case, go to bed and take plenty of vitamin c. Aspirins
    may help relieve the symptoms.
    
    Richard.

	Regarding idle clock messages...

	Well, although it doesn't really address the cause, I have a solution
to offer...  Do y'all remember some time back we were talking about midi 
switching devices?  Well, a coupla weeks ago I happened accross some easy
switching diagrams in Keyboard's May 86 issue, Jim Cooper's column.  They looked
so simple I went out and bought the hardware from R.S. (a whopping $7 worth)
and built a simple switching box that night (while I sat and watched TV with my 
wife).

	This has enabled me to do quick hassle-free switching between sources
OR (though I haven't used it for that yet) switching between destinations.
(I have a patch editor I wrote for the C64, but can't play the edited patch 
without switching back to the keyboard controller).

	You might want to try building one of these so as to switch back and 
forth source or destination clocks.

	Dan

    I've got to weigh in with Edd on this one.  This is clearly an HR-16
    bug.  Regardless of your opinion about the goodness or badness of
    transmitting clock while idling (and the MC500 puts this under user
    control, except that it's "transmit clock" regardless of idle or
    running; i.e., with transmit clock disabled, it won't send MIDI
    clock messsages during it;s playback of a sequence!), the HR16 should
    not screw up the *user interface* to its step mode programming
    mechanism because an external clock is present.  As Edd notes, the
    step time programmed notes play back in the right places; it just
    tells you (incorrectly) that they're in the wrong place.  There's
    no way you can blame this on the MC500.  All Roland sequencers that
    I have dealt with (MSQ-100, MSQ-700, MC500) transmit clock while
    idle (the MC500 gives you the option of turning it off, the others
    didn't), and this has never caused me any problems, even with the
    brain-damaged onboard sequencers in the Korg POLY-800 or the Fender
    Rhodes Chroma Polaris (lotsa notes but zero editing capability),
    or step time programming of my Roland (naturally) drum machines. 
                                           
    len.
    

    No question, it *IS* an HR-16 bug.
    
    However, the fact that they ADDED a feature to turn off the clock
    during idle tells you something...
    
    Do these Roland sequencers transmit clock in idle even when set
    to external clock?  That could lead to some trouble.
    
    One of the things that I've been thinking I might want is to have
    the HR-16 send out clock signals in step time according to the quantum.
    As I've said, I often get "lost" when editing longer patterns and
    it would be easier to keep track of where I was if the other
    instruments played as I stepped through.
    
    I can't say as I know that it doesn't already do this.  Haven't
    tried it yet.
    
    This may seem like a bizarre request without explanation... Perhaps
    even with explanation...
    
    I generally maintain a 1 HR-16 pattern to 1 ESQ-1 sequence
    relationship.  This makes for fairly large patterns, although I
    typically initially build the larger pattern up from smaller patterns.
    
    It's hard to explain but if you think about it, doing it this way
    allows me to quickly switch back and forth between editing drums 
    and then playing them back "in context" with the other instruments.

    There's also other reasons for this having to do with how the HR remembers
    voice/tune/mix setting and how they can changed via midi during
    a song...
    
    	db

    ...found another weirdism over the weekend. Assigning a voice to
    the second set of outputs disconnects that voice from the volume
    slider. The 'mix' level still works though. This could be a bug
    or a feature, I dunno.
    
    When using the second set of outputs, you must pan the instrument
    to either 3<<< or >>>3 in order to isolate it from any other
    instruments assigned to those outputs. No biggie, just move it about
    the stereo field using the pan-pots on your mixer.
    
    The HR makes otherwise totally normal, well adjusted people do odd
    things. F'rinstance, I put a drum solo in an original tune this
    weekend. I DETEST drum solos longer than 10-15 seconds! What has
    become of me?
    
    Ringo

    The saga continues...
    
    Tuesday night I went to demo a piece for a friend and discovered
    I was missing a crash cymbal from the sequence. Investigation led
    me to discover that anything panned <3 disappeared from the "1"
    outputs. Great. What made it more frustrating was that it suddenly
    came back, but was noisy as hell.
    
    Last night I took the sucker apart. I immediately found that one
    of the 4 sensors about 1" in diameter on the main board had come
    off. Having a choice between cyano-acrylic glue and tape, I reattached
    it with the tape. (The glue would have been just tooooo obvious
    a breach...)
    
    But that didn't work, so I started shaking things gently and finally
    discovered a cold solder joint on the volume slider. One resolder
    job later, I'm back in perfect working order. grrrrrrrr.....
    
    For those who may be interested, here's a functional block diagram
    of the audio routings in the HR-16: 
    
                                               If "1"
      |------|     |-------|      |----------|         |---------|
      |Sample|---->|"MIX"  |--L-->|"1" or "2"|---L---->| Volume  |
      |"SGU" |     |Section|--R-->|  Output  |---R- -->|  Slider |
      |------|     |-------|      | Selection|         |---------|
                   (level         |----------|             |  |
                     and             |  | If "2"           |  |
                     pan)            L  R                  L  R
                                     |  |                  |  |
                                     V  V                  V  V
                                 Output Jacks 2       Output Jacks 1
    
    
    Edd

    ANOTHER crappy soldering job on the volume slider?
    
    My HR-16 had a similar goof- the wire stripping had nicked all but two
    strands on the black lead to the slider.  I figured it would cause
    problems only if flexed a lot, (highly unlikely, except for a machine
    owned by the likes of me, who takes apart *everything*) so I just fixed
    it and didn't worry...
    
    So one of your piezo's fell off, eh?  If you decide to glue it back
    on, you probably should NOT use cyano-acrylic glue.  Those glues
    are not particularly flex resistant, and it is a flexing area down
    there.  You probably want to use 8-hour epoxy, pre-clean both parts
    with alcohol, and maybe even scuff the PC board with fine sandpaper
    before gluing.
                 
    ---------------------
     
    This does NOT bode well for Alesis quality!
    

    Surprisingly enough, it was the black wire that gave me gas also...
    
    I've always believed the heart of a good solder joint was a good
    mechanical joint. The wires connected to the volume slider were
    simply rested against the solder tabs and dabbed with the gun even
    though all the tabs had holes punched in them to feed the wire
    into.
    
    I taped the sensor for 3 reasons...
    
                   1. I wasn't sure exactly what it was.
                   2. I was even less sure how it worked.
                   3. Tape is reversable. Glue is kinda permanent...
    
    Thanks for the tip on the epoxy!
    
    Edd

    
    re: Alesis and their QC dept.
    
      This reply is not exactly to the topic (HR-16s) but does shed
    some light on Alesis (which has been discussed before too)...
    
      My MVII, although I love it, came out of the box with one of it's
    keypads unattached. I mean it just fell out of the hole it was stuck
    into. I couldn't help thinking that they must have been in such
    a rush to get stuff out the door that someone just stuffed the keypad
    back in the hole and boxed it up. Well, I brought it back, of course
    the dealer had no more, so they gave me a loaner Mififex keypad
    thingy and a MIDI cord while they ordered the replacement part.
    This part (a keypad) took almost four weeks and my coming into the
    store and acting extremely offended (it's amazing how fast you can
    get serviced when you start talking about quality of service in
    front of potential customers)... 
    
    So they finally fixed it. All was well until last Saturday (elapsed
    time was about 6 months) when I was doing a show in Middlebury
    (tangent: first time I ever performed in front of 625 people with
    sequenced material) and the MVII just stopped dead. I opened it
    up Sunday morning and lo and behold, the power connector was soldered
    to the board with solid wire, which got flexed once (probably the
    connector got stretched) and snapped the wire. I replaced it with
    stranded wire and put a flex loop in it too... 
    
    /pjh

    amazing...I have no quality complaints about either my MVII or
    my HR16...         
    
    dave

    In case anyone is interested, the following was found in ROM...
    
         Software design by:   Marcus Ryle
         Hardware design by:   Keith Barr
         Samples done by:      Allen Wald 
    
    They should have used the memory to allow stepping backwards...
    
    Edd

    I finally got around to reading this HR-16 note ... I was amazed
    to see that there were over 250 replies!  A few things I wanted
    to mention...
    
    Recently, a couple of friends came over to jam.  I needed an extra
    input on the mixer, so I though, "No problem, I'll just use the
    HR-16 in mono for now ... wait a minute, I remember reading in NOTES
    that it didn't do mono properly ... let me try anyways ... surprise,
    it seems to work!"  I tried an experiment: used ONLY the Output-1
    L jack into the mixer.  Play a pattern that has stereo mix set (some
    drums panned L, others R).  Then, plug a dummy 1/4" plug into Output-1
    R jack - viola - now "mono" doesn't work (i.e. I hear some drums,
    but not those panned to R).  Unplug the dummy plug from Output-1
    R, suddenly I hear my whole pattern in mono.
    
    Conclusion - it seems that if you use Output-1 L only, you get a
    mono mix that disregards how you might have panned the individual
    drums.
    
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    
    There were a few notes about playing an HR-16 into a JX-3, and the
    result was faint notes, if any, coming out of the JX-3.  A few years
    back, I tried that same thing with my SCI Drumtrax machine and my
    DX-7.  Similar results.  Upon reading the SCI Drumtrax manual (which
    gave a full MIDI spec!) I learned that the Drumtrax sent out a NOTE
    ON followed immediately by a NOTE OFF whenever it sent out a drum-hit.
    Maybe the HR-16 does the same thing?
    
    ------------------------------------------------------------ Jim

    There's an obvious solution to the problem I described in note .154.
    
    To review briefly, the attack of the "Cabasa" and "Shaker" sounds
    is slow enough to give the impression that its "behind" the beat.
    
    The solution is to use the offset feature to shift it ahead in time
    slightly.  In fact, I'm beginning to think that this is one example
    of the "intended" application of the offset feature.
    
    Now another question, not necessary limited to HR-16's.
    
    How do you do flams?  Now, I know that some drum machines have this
    built in.
    
    I've found that two closely spaced snare hits does not product a
    realistic sounding flam.  The best I've been able to do is to put
    a side-stick note 6/96 ahead of the snare hit.  It's still not very
    good.
    
    Also, who do you do rolls?  What I've done is to use a seperate
    pad for the rolls.   I set quantize to 1/32 and then use the FILL
    key to get approximately what I want, and then edit in dynamics
    and edit out unwanted extra notes in step time.  Some snare sounds
    seem to be better than others for rolls.  I think the amibient wood
    snare was the best if I recall correctly.
    
    Oh yeah, the reason why I use a seperate pad for rolls is that it
    just makings "doing another take" a bit easier cause I can delete
    just the roll easily without deleting the other snare hits.
    
    	db

   Regarding the flams:
	I'd continue to play with the spacing as you have done.
	But also: try cutting the volume of the first beat (the grace note)
	by 'x' degree. Listen, then adjust if necessary. A flam doesn't
	sound reasonable as two beats of equal intensity hit back to back.
	The grace note should be more of a glancing sound, although
	forceful in it's own right. The second beat should usually be
   	considered stronger for the 'usual' effect you're probably looking
   	for.
   
   
   Regarding the rolls:
   	I enter a roll in real time via the octapad. Get somebody to
   	do that for you and get a tape dump & load it in. [ :-) ]
   	But considering using just the HR16, I dunno if I would use
   	'fill'. I think I'd just enter step mode and enter the beats
   	I wanted, also 'slightly' adjusting volume on every pair of
   	beats to  get a 'weak-hand, strong-hand' effect. But only a
   	slight change in volume to humanize it some degree.
   
   All told, I dunno if you've done this or have the room to, but I like 
   building a rudiment or basic beat in one pattern as a stepping stone. 
   Then use the 'copy pattern' function  to  put  the  thing  into  some 
   pattern  text  you're  building,  insert  the  rudiment  at the right 
   position, then go back into edit that if  there's  some  extra  stuff 
   happening over it.
   

   Yo!  I didn't want to go back and read
   250 + replies for this:
   
   My Warranty card is blank on one side, questionaire on the other.
   Anybody got the address to send this to?!? It ain't in the 'book' [sic].
   
   

    ...try    PO Box 3908
              LA, CA.,90078
    
    That was in the 8/87 edition of EM....
    
    Edd

Alesis
3630 Holdrege Ave.
Los Angeles, CA 90016
(213) 467-8000

    OK, for a minute I thought I had gone temporarily senile.  Now I
    know what's goin on.
    
    Ya remember when I said that erase doesn't work in real-time?  And
    some of you replied and said "it does on mine".
    
    This is the deal: Notes programmed in real-time WHILE quantization
    is off can not be erased in real-time.  What's worse is that the
    only way to edit these notes in step time is with quantization off.
    That requires you to step 1/96 note at a time.  This is VERY SLOW.
    
    Upondiscovering this, I have tried to enter stuff with quantization
    on, but.. what can I say... for fills and stuff it just doesn't
    seem to sound right.  
    
    Thus, there's a pretty stiff penalty to entering things without
    quantization.  I typically enter fills in real-time and diddle the
    dynamics in step mode so this is a major groan for me.
    
    On the other hand, despite all these gripes, well... I still love
    the damn thing.  Listening to it play along to my songs is just
    heaven...  It's like a real drummer with a great sounding kit who
    always plays in perfect time (when appropriate).
    
    	db

    Had an interesting time  Wednesday night trying to copy 707 songs
    into the HR....it might be called 'intro to midi clock loops'....
    We hooked the in to the out and vice versa on the 707 and the HR16.
    With the 707 in midi slave mode (notice the HR doesn't support midi
    slave mode??) recieve midi notes on, and the clock set to MIDI and
    internal the hr clocked the 707, it repeated the clock so the hr
    would clock again...Yngie (sp??) malmsteen drumming mode begins...the
    delay between notes was effectivly the gate delay between the HR
    out and the HR in (ie: the gate dealy in the 707)..boy did those
    songs copy fast! After a great deal of cursing and laughing we figured
    out the problem and shut off the MIDI clock input to the HR and
    it then copied at a more normal speed...success was a good set of
    copies of old drum programs in my new machine...I'd like to than
    Mr. Fehskens for providing the MIDI cable and the 707 and the place...
    we had some good laughs at the technology...
    
    dave

    midi slave mode?
    
    midi spec says nothing of this....

    what is it?
    
    ron
    

    ...external clock.
    
    Edd

    nope, cant be that.
    
    Hr-16 doesnt have it, I thought...and it does do
    external clock....
    
    ron ;')
    

    The Alesis will do midi clock but only in the midi and internal
    mode....it will not slave to the midi clock like other devices (roland
    707 for ex.) do...it runs on it's own internal clock and syncs to
    the midi clock if it's present...big difference...
    
    fun with midi...dave

    ... and does a damn poor job of it!
    
    Edd

    
    I got my tax refund today.
    
    I got my HR-16 later today.
    
    I can quit compaining about my 626, since it's a dim memory.
    
    I am happy.
    
    Ashley in smogland.

    
    The 'manual' says that the HR-16 pads can deliver 8 steps of volume
    by velocity, but the HR-16 can accept 32 steps.  Has anyone tried
    or achieved 32 volume levels?  I tried programming with my Akai
    AX-80 keyboard, but no matter how hard I pounded the keys, I couldn't
    equal the HR's loudest velocity.
    
    Also, it seems like the volume levels are totally inconsistent.
    The loudest volume on the gated bass doesn't come close to the level
    on the gated snare.  Is this happening with everybody (I have V
    1.06)
    
    And there is a blue card in my kit stating how important it is to
    not leave the power supply partially inserted in the 9V AC jack.
    THey also say..."If you are using a multiple power strip with an
    on/off swithc, turn off the power with this switch.  This is a
    convenient and proeferable setup."  THEN WHY DOES THE WALL BUG TAKE
    UP 2 POSITIONS???  Some convenience, huh?
    
    Ashley

    Yeah, the absolute levels of mine (V1.06) are also way off in apparent
    level...
    
    Your keyboard may be at fault. There was an article in Keyboard
    sometime ago about a DX-7 that wouldn't send full velocity. Gotta
    MIDI data scope? MC-500??? Check your output data... 
    
    As for whether I could achieve 32 discrete levels of velocity, I've
    never tried, and personally, couldn't care. I'm sure I couldn't
    differentiate between many consecutive levels, though I'm not sure
    the 8 I've got are the best choice.
                                                        
    Edd

    Though I can't vouch for 32 different levels, the HR-16 does seem
    to respond with what I'd intuit to be greater than 8 (from the
    Octapad).  I'll try to check it out with the Octapad's programmable
    minimum velocity control tonight. 
    	
    We could code it up if anyone out there has an MMT-8... or finds
    both an MMT-8, an HR-16, and a cooperative salesman in the same
    store at the same time...

                                     

    Are you sure that:
    
    	1) the mix levels of the associate pads are set the same
    
    	2) The pan settings are set the same 
    
    	3) You are running BOTH outputs to your monitoring device
    
    	   If your bass is panned somewhat left, and your snare
    	   is panned somewhat right and you are only plugged into
    	   the left, it would have the symptom you describe.
    
    The acid test is to test both of those sounds on the SAME pad.
    I'll try to remember to do that tonite.
    
    Regarding the wall bug, see my earlier diatribe about wall bugs
    in general.  The one good thing I can say about the HR-16 is that
    (if I remember correctly) it is a 2 prong unbiased plug which means
    that I can plug it into either end plug of my power strip and not have it
    cover up an additional plug.
    
    	db

    
    Yeah, everything is panned to the center,, and the 2 volume levels
    on my board are equal.  I guess I'll get a db meter and go through
    each sound and keep a chart of relative volume.  The dry kicks seem
    to be much louder than the rest of the sounds.
    
    The damn wall bug is non-polarized, but has the cord coming out
    of the *top*, and the mass of the device is on the *bottom*.  GRRRR.
    
    I don't really think I can use 32 levels, either, but I wonder if
    it actually does recognize them.
    
    One thing I noticed about a DX-7.  It may be set up to one certain
    velocity patch, but it ignores that patch on incoming MIDI data.
    I played a friend's jazz guitar patch from my keyboard, and I had
    all kinds of velocity control.  He was playing from the DX, and
    didn't.  
    
    The HR-16 pads seem kind of finiky as far as velocity is concerned.
    I think I'll end up doing most programming from the keyboard, or
    a Octapad, or one of those Boss Midi-pads, if I can find one.
    
    Ashley

    Tried this on mine and notice the same thing about the GATED SNARE sound
    being louder than the GATED KICK.
    
    Shouldn't be any big deal though right?  You can always compensate with
    the MIX level settings.
    
    	db

    re: .277 wall bugs
    
    Hey, guys, do what I do!  Put all your wall bugs onto teh end of
    one of those extension cords that has about 3 outlets on the end
    (costs about $1).  Plug the extension cord into your power strip.
    Then, put the bugs somewhere away from your equipment.  Cuts your
    noise down to zip and frees up space on your power strip.
    
    BTW - I appreciated your comment about COMMUSIC deadlines, db.
    I'm working on one piece now (two or so in waiting) that I want
    to do a really good job on before it's submitted.  I'll send it
    whenever/ifever it gets finished.  Now what I need is a little time
    to work on it some more ...
    
    Steve

    On the subject of drum rolls - I found out that the MT-32 works
    real well if you choose the Deep Snare patch & play the roll on
    4 different pads of an OCTAPAD (the notes were 63, 64, 65 & 66).
    Where you alternate between the 4 pads, so that notes don't get
    re-triggered as fast. I also have a fairly good drum roll on my
    CZ-101 (it's that 8 step envelope that lets you do it), playing
    on two adjacent keys.
    
    The HR-16 has lots of sampled drums, does it set up multiple Snares
    (that sound about the same) to allow for this?
    
    							Jens

    Any sample can be mapped/tuned independently to each of the sound
    generators; I have a mapping I like that uses the electronic tom
    sample, tuned in octaves/fifths for four octapad pads.
    	
    ---------------------
    
    I tested the number of levels the HR-16 can generate with a sound-level
    meter and an Octapad.  It's certainly more than 8.  They seem to
    be spaced about 1 to 1.5 dB apart, every 4th MIDI velocity number.
    	
    	-Bill
     

    While the HR will let you map and tune to your heart's desire, can
    someone confirm that ALL the samples will not be restarted when
    triggered by a different pad.
    
    The cymbals don't re-trigger, but I'm unsure about the rest...
    
    Edd

    re .281:
    
    There is also an option on the MT32 that can only be accessed through
    software that alternates between mono on repeated keys or poly on
    repeated keys. This comes in handy for the drum rolls you mentioned,
    although with a fast drum roll, you can really eat up partials.
    
    						John.

    There are two exceptions to the 1 voice per pad rule:
    
    1) The cymbal pad alternates between two voices.
    
    2) The 3 HH pads all share ONE voice
    
    	db

    re .285 (my, this note goes on and on):
    
    This is actually a pretty smart implementation.  Alternating between
    two voice modules for the ride (crash?) cymbal makes the cymbals
    sound better because successive cymbal strikes don't truncate as
    quickly.
    
    For the hihat, one voice module for all three pads is absolutely
    necessary so the closed hihat can truncate the open hihat.
                
    len.
    

    
    Re: .284
    
    I thought the drums on the MT-32 were separate from the partials
    as far as as the polyphony goes.    ????????
    
    

    re -.1  
    
>>>        For the hihat, one voice module for all three pads is absolutely
>>>    necessary so the closed hihat can truncate the open hihat.

	What about using 2 hi-hats like the Tama X-hat?
    
    One of the set-ups I've created assigns the foot closed hi-hat to
    the half-open hi-hat pad, and I use the perc-3 pad for the half
    open hi-hat.  When all these are panned, I'm getting the effect
    of a X-hat by the ride cymbal (drummer's right), and the pedal-operated
    hi-hat on the left.
    
    A few notes on TR-626 vs. HR-16
    
    TR-626 has china cymbal, headphone jack, and is battery operated,
    so you can plug in your phones and program patterns on the bus.
    
    HR-16 has much more flexible sounds, and more of them.
    
    For typical play-and-go programming, TR-626 wins hands down.
    
    For intricate fills and such, the HR-16 allows you much more
    flexibility.
    
    The 626 is *always* in quantize mode, and you can't map more than
    1 sound to 1 MIDI note, and you can't get higher subdivision than
    a sextuplet.  It's also a pain to have triplets and sixteenths in
    the same pattern.
    
    And of course, the HR-16 pads are velocity sensitive. 

    But since I have resolution to 1/96th, a problem arises.  I sometimes
    go into step mode (where I have never gone before), and it really
    bothers me that:
    
    YOU CAN'T STEP BACKWARDS.
    
    Oh well.  (sound familiar db?)
    
    Ashley in smogland.

    The drums on the MT32 count as partials. Since each drum is a single
    PCM sample, each drum strike counts as one partial. I guess it's
    typical to take up 4-6 partials with drums, which means you have
    26-28 partials left. A good bass might take 4 partials, chords maybe
    10 partials, etc.
    
    The thing to remember when allocating the partials is that most
    chords don't sound good with lots of partials. I generally try to
    stay within 2, maybe 3 partials for chord voicing. More than one
    synth voice is only necessary if you're doing strange things to
    the envelopes. I usually stick in a good PCM partial for some attack
    timbre.
    
    A bad bass patch sticks out like a sore thumb. I usually use all
    I have, that is, four partials.
    
    Arpeggios are also a good way to eat through partials.
    
    						John.

    re .288 - yep, I (and almost all drum machine designers) hadn't
    considered the possibility of multiple hihats, even though I have
    two sets of cymbals (15" A. Zildjians and 14" K. Zildjians), two
    stands and a Tama Xhat.  What you really want is the flexibility
    that Korg provided in the DDD-1 (and DDD-5 and DRM-1?) to specify
    per pad/note number what the module assignment strategy should be.
    
    Regarding the shortcomings of drum machine sequencers, I can't help
    but give the MC500 another plug - its rhythm track interface is
    almost a pleasure to use (I only have two major disappointments
    with it - you can't make specific events "early" or "late" relative
    to their nominal position, and you can't see all the parts at the
    same time (as you can on a -707 or -727)).
    
    Speaking of sequencer-less drum machines (well, I was sort of),
    I hear a rumor from USENET that Yamaha is bringing out a sequencer-less
    RX-5 in a 2-high rackmount.  Rumored to be priced at about $800.
                    
    len.
    

    The Kawai drum machines (R50 and R100) also allow the user to specify
    poly or mono voice assignment per sound.
    
    Steph

    Another potential gotcha.   It's not clear if this is a bug or a
    feature.
    
    If you use an external sequencer to store your drum patterns, be warned
    that the pad sensitivity applies not only to the pads, but also to
    incoming MIDI data as well.
    
    Simply put, if you program your drum tracks into a sequencer using
    one pad sensitivity setting, and then play it back with a different
    sensitivity setting, the dynamics will be all screwed up.
    
    	db

    Sounds like the sensitivity applies more to the way the voice
    responds to a given velocity as opposed to actually altering the
    velocity data sent.
    
    Edd
    

    
    That makes sense, sort of. At least it explains yet another phenomenon
    I noticed at lunchtime (went over to try something at lunch...this
    means something, I'm not sure what) where the HR-16 had pinned it's
    velocity to full for each "bounced" track which was fed back through
    it. Strange. I thought there was a parameter in the MIDI page for
    echo in/out...
    
    /pjh

    The HR-16 supports a semi-smart voice allocation algorythm so that
    you can't activate impossible combinations of samples, like open
    and closed high-hat at the same time.
    
    Why do I say semi-smart? It seems that the rule is not "don't fire
    voice A if voice B is present" but rather "don't play the voice
    assigned to pad A if the voice assigned to pad B is present".
    
    The 3 high-hat pads, regardless of what voices are assigned to them,
    are mutually exclusive.
    
    Edd 

     re: .-1
    
    I noticed that. We just came across it too. Assigned something or
    other to the open hihat since I wasn't using it, and then proceeded
    to not hear it half the time. Figured out that if I muted the hihat
    it would show up (it was recorded by the sequencer too)... Too bad
    it is bound to the pad itself, not the voice.  BTW, the pad is actually
    the MIDI key number, since the behavior is identical using the 8pad.
    
    /pjh

	Sounds like  the  Alexis  folks did the right things with
	those PADs and the hi-hat.

	You need  to  be  able to do two things.  First make sure
	that  the  hi-hat  sounds correctly used.  A real drummer
	cannot  hit  a  hi  hat while open and closed at the same
	time, so this is correct.

	However you might want to have a drum sound of a kit with
	many hi-hats.  In that case you just assign the hi-hat to
	other pads and you have what you want.

	Having the  interlock  on  the PADs and not the sounds is
	very creative.

				BArry

    Actually what you really want (what Korg did) is to let *you* decide
    what you want to have happen, as a voice parameter.
    
    len.
    

    Kawai machines (R50, R100) allow the same flexibility as the Korgs.
                               
    Steph

    I remember reading/hearing that a new, "final" version of the HR-16
    manual would be sent to all purchasers of HR-16's.  Has anyone seen
    this yet?!
    			-Jim

    > Actually what you really want (what Korg did) is to let *you* decide
    > what you want to have happen, as a voice parameter.
    
    Gee, Len.  I would have thought that you'd have advocated a voice
    allocation feature that does not allow you to, for example, play
    a hi-hat, snare, ride and a tom all at the same instant.  ;-)
    
    BTW, Alesis is far from the first to have the "1 voice allocated to
    all HHs" feature.  However, the ability to assign sounds to pads gives
    this feature some added benefit.
    
    For example, on my RZ-1 I've longed for the ability to have a sample
    of a crash cymbal being struck and then muted by a hand (a common
    practice among drummers).   On the HR-16 I was able to accomplish this
    by assigning a crash to one HH pad, and then a foot-closed HH to
    another HH pad.
    
    I get something that pretty sounds like that technique by hitting the
    crash and then putting the foot-closed HH sound about 32/96's behind
    it (and a little reverb of course).
    
    	db
    

    Geez, leave my chain out and somebody yanks it.
    
    C'mon, Dave, nobody (not even me) ever said a drum machine could
    only replace *one* drummer at a time...
    
    len.
    

    Is anyone having trouble getting a response from Alesis? They
    seem to be very hard to get any information out of.
    
    Jim
    

    Alesis has always been a pain in the butt to get *anything* out of ...
    help or otherwise.

    What kind of info are you trying to get out of them? 

-b

    Just got my HR.  Have to concur with all the other reviews - the sound
    is phenomenal, although it would have been nice to determine which
    voices terminated which other voices (ala *hat) and voicings (ala crash
    pad) via s/w, rather than have 'em hardcoded. 

    The unit came with every board too loose to use, and with one screw
    missing.  >8-( 

    I don't care if I can't step backwards.  :-}

    And, in case anyone is thinking about getting one of these or any other
    Alesis products, think again.  According to Morgan at ECS, Alesis is
    cutting their authorized dealer list in HALF.  (ECS is one of the
    dealers getting the axe.)

    According to a couple people I've talked to, the failure rate on this
    gear is incredible (like 50% DOA), and Alesis is making drastic
    production cuts to try and compensate for this, which is presumably not
    a lacking in the design of the equipment, but rather a manufacturing
    and assembly problem. 

    Sigh.

-b

    >I don't care if I can't step backwards...
    
     You will. Trust us.
    
    >50% cutbacks. 
    
     This is likely to cause 1/2 as many DOAs and a higher price.
    
    As much as I love the sounds of my HR, Alesis MISSED THE QC BOAT!!
    Let's hope the problems are all as easily fixable as a loose board
    or a cold solder joint...
    
    Edd 
    
    

RE: .307 (things will get worse)

    I dunno, Edd.  If nothing else, it'll keep the price up there.

    Oh yeah - one of my switch contacts was crummy, too (upper pad #3). A
    Texpad (alcohol pad for tape drives) cleaned the thing right up. It is
    amazing how little there is to this beastie (in terms of physical
    components). 

    And, upon rereading .306, I wasn't clear that this cutback is for *ALL*
    products - MIDI and Micro verbs included. 

-b

    re .306	Warning, article of faith follows:-
    
    	Products have to be designed for predictability in manufacturing too. 

    	Reg
    

    It just occured to me that we, as a class, are probably a bit
    more technically oriented and educated than the average HR-16
    user.
    
    I wonder what John Q. Public thinks of it???
    
    Edd

    Otherwise, why would there be such a big rush to get the things out the
    door?  You can't sell 'em if no one wants 'em.

-b

    Just got off the phone with Profound.  They were down for a few weeks
    (water main break washed out their store).  They're doing HR16s for
    $385.  And they're in stock. 

    Phone 800-63-SOUND or 316-733-2493.

-b

>    It just occured to me that we, as a class, are probably a bit
>    more technically oriented and educated than the average HR-16
>    user.
    
>    I wonder what John Q. Public thinks of it???
>    Edd
    
    If they have the same manual I got with mine, they probably are
    thinking:
    
    	"How do you work this f___ing thing?!?!?"
    
       db
    
    p.s. Hopefully they are also thinking: "I'm gonna call them and demand
    	 backward stepping"  ;-)
    

    Has anyone connected their Octapad to the HR-16?  If so, can
    they get full velocity control from their 'pad?  
    
    I think I'm not getting the upper part of the range (and have no
    MIDIscope to check it out).
    	
    	-Bill
    

    
    Umm, I connected the Octapad to the '16, but it's kinda convoluted.
    
    Basically what I do is this:
    
    
    8Pad--->MX-8---->Hr-16 IN
            MX-8---->Atari w/KCS
    
    The HR-16 and the Atari see the same events. I usually have to diddle
    with the sensitivity and shelving on the 8pad to get the HR-16 to
    give large ranges of dynamics. Since the KCS records the velocity
    info and the duration info, I could dump that and let you know.
    
    /pjh

    	If convenient, please do.  A friend has volunteered his Mac
    with the Kurzweil midiscope software to check this out sometime
    too.
    	
    	-Thanks
    	 Bill
    

    
    It is as convenient as going to the studio and powering up and playing,
    which is convenient enough. I'll post here on Tuesday.
    
    /pjh

    On Saturday my band is gonna use the HR-16 live for the first time.
    
    Why?  The drummer is currently using Roland PD-n pads to drive a
    707. He's not happy with the sound and our sound man is less than
    thrilled with getting a stereo feed and having no ability to diddle
    with the snare or bass. Apparently no individual outs....
    
    So.... If any machine is gonna appeal to a drummer it's gonna be
    the HR-16. But the HR only has 4 outs, so, I proposed the following
    scheme. What do the noters think??
    
    
    On the default 'A' outputs pan EVERYTHING to dead center EXCEPT
    the snare and bass which go HARD RIGHT. Take the left channel and
    send it to the board. House now has all the drums except the S&D.
    Take the right channel and send it to the stage monitor. This now
    gets a full kit...
    
    Since any voice assigned to the 'B' outputs is removed from the
    'A' set assign the same (or even a different) snare and bass voice 
    to a couple unused pads. (Don't use the HH pads, they're exclusive). 
    Assign these pads the same note number as those in the stereo mix. 
    Assign these to output 2. Pan the snare hard left and the bass hard right.
    Run these to the house. House now gets 3 sends; kit minus S&D, snare,
    and bass. Monitor gets full mono kit.
    
    Adjust all levels to suit.
    
    When the snare (or bass) pad is triggered, it will fire *2* HR pads that
    have the same voice assigned. One voice becomes part of the monitor mix
    and the other stays seperate from all else and goes to the board
    where it can be individually eq'd, reverbed, gated...
    
    Commentez-vous? Silver plate...
    
    Edd                        
    

    Sounds feasible.  It might even work.
    

    Re: 1064.318 
    
    Edd,
    
    Were you talking about the Roland TR707 in your note?  If so, the TR707
    DOES have separate outs for all the voices.  You simply insert a cord
    into the individual output you want and it takes it out of the stereo
    mix.  Handy as all get-out.  That's the reason I bought it. 
    
    Re: your scheme, sounds good.  Sound people usually like to do the
    most work on the kick and snare anyway, so having kick, snare, and
    all the rest on three lines sounds like a reasonable compromise.
    
    		Derek

    Yeah, I was talking about the Roland and you're right (you knew
    that), it does have seperate outs. 
    
    But, he's not thrilled with the sound and I *think* that the Roland
    voices are hard-wired to the pads, therefore not allowing you to
    send the snare out 2 different busses... yes?
    
    Could my scheme be done with the 707???? Can you keep something
    in the mix AND put it on a seperate out?? 
    
    Edd

    
    Hey, Edd when you say Saturday is the first time I hope you meant
    *rehearsal* not *job*....
    
    My band used an HR-16 for a while, and though our setup didn't require
    the elaborate mixing you want, our drummer did try to separate the
    kick from the rest of the mix *on the gig without trying it at home
    first*.
    
    Results: 15 minutes of "I hit the pad but I don't hear anything,
    maybe it's the cord or something", etc.
    
    
    

    Right-o...
    
    First *gig* with the HR is Saturday...
    
    Tonight we do smoke tests...
    
    Edd

>707 ... can you mix stereo AND send seperate?

    No.

>Edd's setup

    Should work just fine.  I don't quite see the reason for all that work,
    though.  Tell the sound man to blow it out his ear, and that you'll
    give him whatever you want, and he'll take it or get a new job. 

    Should make for a great mix.  &*}

-b

    Brad is right.  When you insert a cord into the individual output on
    the TR707, that signal is removed from the stereo mix.  Thus, if you
    want to monitor a composite signal on stage, you would have to use a
    mixer to mix the stereo output with the individual snare and kick. 
    
    How do you mix your stage monitors?  If you tell me how you do it,
    I can give you some ideas of how to accomplish what you want.  Or
    maybe it's a moot point...
    
    		Derek

    re. "tell the soundman..."
    
    I know you were only joking but, for the record, we have a full
    time soundman who is considered a 7th member of the band. He hauls
    cabinets just like us and gets 1/7 of the pay like the rest of the
    band.
    
    The bi-amp(tm) mixer apparently (I haven't had time to scope all
    the hardware out) has only 1 monitor buss, and that drives the 
    wedges for the vocals. All other stage sound comes from the individual
    amps on stage. (I envy the guitarists. They can walk out front and
    hear what we sound like. I, on the other hand, have never heard
    what we sound like. I send a stereo feed to the board and just put
    my trust in the engineer.)
    
    A bigger board with more monitor busses would be cool... (A bigger
    board with more *anything* is always the answer :^) )
    
    Edd

    Yeah, I was joking.  One person this week who hasn't taken something
    wrong.  Thanks Edd. 

    Anyway, are you sure you won't be able to get away with simply using
    stereo outs?  There's enough HR control (volume, etc) to be able to do
    without seperate outs (unless you get into some really serious FX, and
    I can't imagine that on a board with only 1 monitor send). 

    If it's that big of a deal, get (or make) a 100ft long MIDI cable, tape
    it to the snake, and set the HR with the board & soundman.  Then *he*
    can be a MIDIot like the rest of you. 

-b

    > It might work.
    
    Might.
    
    To me the question is will it indeed fire two pads set to the same
    note?  Have you actually tried that?
    
    I wouldn't be surprised if it only fired one, and I wouldn't
    necessarily call it a "bug" if it did.
    
    There's a similar thing people would like to do on the ESQ-1, wherein
    you set two tracks with MIDI BOTH to the same MIDI channel, say 3.
    Let say one track has the local sound BASS and the other has BRASS.
    What you might hope to happen is have anything coming on channel
    3 produce a BASS/BRASS layer.
    
    Unfortunately what happens is that you get whichever sound is assigned
    to the lower numbered track.  Even documents that in the manual.
    
    Wouldn't be surprised if the software stops looking for pads with
    "this" note assigned once it finds one.
    
    	db

    I thought about that and, frankly, I don't know. I would have tested
    it last night but I didn't have a single thing at home to generate
    a NOTE-ON....
    
    Find out tonight...
    
    Edd

RE: .328

    I tried this a few weeks ago, and it worked.  At least I *thought* it
    did.  Hmmm. 

    Add that to the smoke test list.

-b

    what about maybe having the MIDI thru of the HR trigger the MIDI
    in of the TR and use the TR for the monitors and the HR to the board.
    
    Or you could always have the TR just double the bass drum.
    
    Ashley

    RE:.331
    
    Now *that* is an interesting idea!
    
    Edd

    >To me the question is will it indeed fire two pads set to the same
    >note?  Have you actually tried that?
    
     Yep, it will... tried it last night.
    
    Edd(who's_carefully_tweaked_HR-16_drum_kit_got_blown_into_the
        nether-regions_reassigning_voices_for_his_drummer)

    So?  Whatcha gunna do, Eddrick?  TR to monitors, HR to house?  Or use
    your original idea?  Or buy a real drum kit?

-b

    The game plan is to use my original idea, but, not being total
    fools, we're bringing the 707 as back up. 
    
    Kinda wierd last night, every time he bashed the Roland PD-3 pads
    with some gusto, I kinda cringed thinking "That's my HR you're
    bashing on!!!"
    
    Of course it wasn't but I kept fighting that thought anyhow...
    
    Edd (who_waited_a_long_time_for_his_HR)

    Oh oh. 
    
    Last night I noticed that the drum sounds on my HR have developed
    what I describe as a "grungy tail", i.e., after the initial sound,
    there is something that sounds like digital static, that lasts about
    half a second and seems to be at the fundamental frequency of the
    drum.  It seems to affect all the sounds, and is so noticeable as
    to make the HR16 unusable for recording, which is all I use it for.
    
    Before I take it in/send it back, I thought I check to see if anyone
    else had encountered such a problem, and to warn you to be on the
    lookout for it.
    
    I am *not* a happy camper.
    
    Rodney M.
    

    Nonesuch on mine.  
    
    Sounds like another case of Aloser brain-fry.
    
    	-Bill
    

    Well...
    
    I've sorta observed something similar in mine, but it only occurs for
    certain non-zero tunings of drums.  Don't know if we're observing
    the same thing, but I've always considered what I've described
    here as a short-coming rather than as a bug that could be fixed.
    
    For zero tunings, all the samples in mine sound excellent.
    
    	db

    Are you running it through any FX??
    
    I thought I had the same problem back in March... turns out it
    was originating in my MVII...
    
    Edd

    Re: .338, .339
    
    Thinking it might be tuning related, I cleared/initialized the machine,
    which reset all the tunings.  The problem remained.
    
    Thinking it might be effects related (I was going thru my SRV2000
    reverb and a Symmetrix 522 compressor/limiter), I first bypassed the 
    effects; the problem remained. I then patched the HR outputs directly
    to the mike input on my my gool ol' A3440 four track and monitored 
    *that*.  The problem remained.
    
    I tried patching headphones directly into the outputs, but couldn't
    get enough gain to tell anything.
    
    Any more suggestions?  I really *hope* I'm doing something stupid
    that I've overlooked.
    
    Rodney M.

    Is it present in all the outputs??? 1, 2, L&R????
    
    Dunno what this would point to but it might lead to something...
    
    Edd

    < Note 1064.340 by FGVAXZ::MASHIA "Crescent City Kid" >
>I then patched the HR outputs directly
>to the mike input on my my gool ol' A3440 four track and monitored 
>*that*.  The problem remained.

    Line level outs, like on the HR16, are 10 times the gain of mic
    inputs..    

    Re. last couple
    
    I tried all outputs, and I don't think I overdrove the mike inputs
    on the 3440.  Used the MIC ATTEN setting and was careful with the
    gain.
    
    I guess I'm convinced that the grunge is originating in the HR;
    the setup hadn't changed, everything else (DX11, CZ101) sounded
    okay.  One day it sounded great, the next day it sounded not great.
    
    After work, I'm taking it to the store where I bought it to patch
    it into their system.  I hope it sounds great there.  Will report.
    
    Rodney M.
    

    Below the dotted line is a form I made up for defining HR-16 drum
    kits.
    
    len.
    
    

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    
                               HR-16 Kit Definition
   
   
   Pattern # ___    Kit Name  ______________________________________________
   
   
    Note    Pad           Voice         Tun  Vol  Out           Pan

     ___   kick   ___ ________________  ___  ___  1 2   <3 <2 <1 <> 1> 2> 3>

     ___   snare  ___ ________________  ___  ___  1 2   <3 <2 <1 <> 1> 2> 3>
            
     ___  cls hat ___ ________________  ___  ___  1 2   <3 <2 <1 <> 1> 2> 3>
                   
     ___  mid hat ___ ________________  ___  ___  1 2   <3 <2 <1 <> 1> 2> 3>
       
     ___  opn hat ___ ________________  ___  ___  1 2   <3 <2 <1 <> 1> 2> 3>
                    
     ___   claps  ___ ________________  ___  ___  1 2   <3 <2 <1 <> 1> 2> 3>
          
     ___  perc 3  ___ ________________  ___  ___  1 2   <3 <2 <1 <> 1> 2> 3>
         
     ___  perc 4  ___ ________________  ___  ___  1 2   <3 <2 <1 <> 1> 2> 3>
         
     ___   tom 1  ___ ________________  ___  ___  1 2   <3 <2 <1 <> 1> 2> 3>
        
     ___   tom 2  ___ ________________  ___  ___  1 2   <3 <2 <1 <> 1> 2> 3>
        
     ___   tom 3  ___ ________________  ___  ___  1 2   <3 <2 <1 <> 1> 2> 3>
    
     ___   tom 4  ___ ________________  ___  ___  1 2   <3 <2 <1 <> 1> 2> 3>
          
     ___   ride   ___ ________________  ___  ___  1 2   <3 <2 <1 <> 1> 2> 3>
         
     ___   crash  ___ ________________  ___  ___  1 2   <3 <2 <1 <> 1> 2> 3>
   
     ___  perc 1  ___ ________________  ___  ___  1 2   <3 <2 <1 <> 1> 2> 3>
         
     ___  perc 2  ___ ________________  ___  ___  1 2   <3 <2 <1 <> 1> 2> 3>
                                                                               
   

    I consider this to be a joyous occasion!!!!
    
    len "Joe Roland" Fehskens has bought a piece of Alesis gear.
    
    Can we expect postings of your kits?? 
    
    Welcome to Club Frustration...
    
    Edd

    Now, c'mon, I bought Alesis gear before any of you guys even heard
    of them.  Remember the Alesis XT? The 4-preset (not programmable,
    not MIDI) digital reverb for under $1000?
         
    And, yes, I did acquire an HR-16 this weekend.  That makes 5 drum
    machines, now.  And I *still* haven't found what I'm looking for.
    
    And, no, don't expect postings of my kits.  I gotta have some
    professional secrets.
    
    len.
    

Len -

Check out the kit I posted back in 1064.61 and let me know what you think.
Congrats on the new toy. Are you starting a drum machine museum? Any new
sound ROMs for the Linn? Were you able to get it for $399 at Wurly's?

dave

    Yesterday I got my first issue of "The First Reflection".
    
    This is a new publication which is Alesis's answer to the Roland
    User's Group newsletter.
    
    It was amazingly devoid of useful content in the HR-16 area.  Had some
    interesting things to say about the audio processing gear.  Hopefully
    it will improve with time.
    
    There's an offer now that if you buy your HR-16 and MMT-8 together
    you get a free carrying case.  If you've already bought an HR-16 or an
    MMT-8, if you "complete" the system (by buying the other unit) they'll
    send you one for $29.95.
    
    	db

    
    
    re .346
    
    >Remember the Alesis XT?  The 4-preset (not programmable,
    
    Did Alesis offer different models of the XT?  Mine doesn't
    have ANY presets on it.
    
    Ralph
    
    

    A few replies back I talked about the "digital grunge" problem I
    was hearing in my HR16's output.  Well, I took it to the music store,
    they hooked it into their system, and it sounded great.
    
    I took it home, some sounds were okay, some were "better".  The
    next day, everything sounded fine.  
    
    The only thing that changed was the fact that we acquired an air
    conditioner right about the time I started hearing the problem.
    I don't think temperature had anything to do with it (it's a room
    air conditioner, and the studio ain't in the Room, unfortunately)
    but I did notice a power problem when it cycled - lights flickered
    computer screen rippled - and I'm wondering if that might have
    been the problem.  I dunno.  If it keeps working, I don't care.
    
    Maybe I just *imagined* the whole thing.
    
    Cautiously sighing with relief,
    Rodney M.

    Doesn't this sort of thing make you MAD? I mean, I'm sure a lot
    of problems of this sort would never occur if the gear was designed
    and built just a little bit bigger. You look inside a box that
    is probably already smaller than is convenient, to find an even
    smaller bunch of nondescript electronics jammed into an EVEN SMALLER
    SPACE inside! So the smalles particle of dust/water/beer you could
    ever imagine gets in there and POW! Or rather not POW, but some
    unpredictable event occurs.
    
    I hate it.
    
    Richard.

    re .347 - I got it at EUW for $415 plus tax.
    
    re .349 - there were, if I recall, two two-position buttons on the
    XT that determined the reverb parameters; 2*2 = 4 "programs".
    
    len.
    

    re .347 - I just looked at .61, and there's some discussion there
    about saving voice/tune/mix information in a pattern.  The manual
    that came with my HR-16 (apparently a later version) warns that
    voice/tune/mix data can be written to an empty pattern ONLY IF ITS
    LENGTH HAS BEEN *CHANGED* FROM 8 BEATS.  This sure looks like a
    bug to me, I can't figure out why it would be designed this way
    deliberately.  For me, this is just a minor annoyance, as I have
    no need for the HR-16's sequencer (I drive it from the rhythm track
    of my MC-500), but I wonder if after writing the voice/tune/mix data
    to the pattern you can change the length back to 8 beats if that's
    what you need.  If you couldn't, that would be one major bummer.
    
    len.
     

RE: .353

    Len, this has bitten multiple hunks out of my posterior.  But it ain't
    that big a deal.  All it takes is a length *change*, not an increase.
    So you can set all your patterns to a length of 1 and forget it. 

    And thanks for the chart sheet.  I've been meaning to do that, but
    never got around to it. 

RE: Rodney (a/c blues)

    I noticed a similar thing not only with the HR, but with my MVII as
    well.  We got an a/c about a month ago, and the thing evidently causes
    some a/c noise.

    No big deal, unless you're recording or your wiring is crap (read: a/c
    spike). 

-b

    Hey, get one o' them $20 power strips with the filters on it.  I've
    got an MVII with an A/C pointing almost directly at it, sitting
    right beside it.  I haven't had any power problems in spite of the
    noise on the lines.
    
    Steve

    re: .355   I have all the stuff plugged into one of those spike
    protected strips they sell for computer equipment.  I don't know
    if it has filters, just assumed it did.
    
    BTW, I need a favor from a kind HR-16 owner.  I cleared all the
    factory presets from the machine when I was trying to troubleshoot
    the problem, and I've decided I want them back. ( I loved jamming
    on my flute to pattern 3).  I can send a tape. Pls send mail. I'm
    in southern New Hampshire.
    
    Also, does anyone know if you (registered HR-16 owner) has to call
    Alesis and ask for the 'new' manual, or if they're supposed to be
    sent out automatically?  I've heard it both ways.  Has anyone received
    one without requesting it?
    
    Rodney M.

    I called and requested a manual.  They mailed me the glossy brochure
    on the HR16.
    
    I called again, told them I already _had_ the HR-16 and just wanted
    the manual.  They finally sent me one.
    
    	-grrrllll
    

    Spike protection and line filtering are two different things.
    If you can find one the power controllers that DEC makes have excellant
    spike and filter performance. If not, Rat Shack used to sell 5 amp
    filters (called EMI filters or some such) looks like a little silver
    box 1" X 2" X 2.5" or so, has three ac connections on each side.
    I built one of these into a metal electrical box with 4 outlets
    and hung an ac line cord on the other side for plugging into the
    wall. Works very well indeed. The rat shack filters were ~ $5.00
    plus whatever blood you owe the governor...
    
    dave

    Re: Gotta change the pattern length to save kits...
    
        According to the "First Reflection" (user rag) this ain't
        necessarily so. Simply saving at least 1 'hit' in a pattern
        will preserve the kit.
    
        It appears you have to do *something* (anything?) to the
        pattern before you can save the kit.
    
        Still wierd...
    
        Edd

    I mentioned this problem way back in reply .82
    
    Here is my "reverse engineering" explanation of it.
    
    Note that the HR does not have a "copy" only append.  To "copy"
    something you append to an "empty" pattern.
    
    Aye, there's there rub: what is an "empty" pattern.
    
    While, I suspect that there's an "empty" bit in the pattern data
    structure.  It's primary use is for the "append" command: it determines
    whether the drum kit of the source pattern is "copied" to the
    target pattern ("empty" bit on), or not "empty" bit  off).
    
    The problem is that storing Voice, Tune, or Mix parameters does
    not "turn off" the empty bit. Probably an oversite in the software.
    
    I just record a note, then erase it.   That definitely works.
    
    	db

RE: .360

    Recording/erasing a note does NOT (repeat: does NOT) work in my kit.
    An empty pattern (ie default length and no notes, regardless of how
    many times notes have been added/deleted) ALWAYS reverts to the
    machine's default settings. 

    It's a real pain in the kiester.  

-b

    Hmmmm....
    
    Brad, can you do this? I can....
    
    Change default 8 beat length to whatever. Enter the drums. Erase
    all the drums *individually* and have the pattern stay the same
    length? 
    
    Mine does not revert to 8 beats in this scenario.
    
    Edd

    
    
    Edd, you beat me to it.  The trick is to erase the drums
    individually, NOT erase the whole pattern.  I do it this
    way all the time.
    
    ralph
    
    

RE: last 2

    Here's the deal:

	1. Select an unused pattern (default 8 bars)
	2. Leave length unchanged
	3. Put in several drum hits
	4. Erase them (individually, not pattern erase)

	Result: pattern reverts to default

    In my experience, you must either have a non-empty 8 bar pattern OR an
    empty non-8 bar pattern in order to have that pattern maintain
    mix/tune/vol parameters.  (Are we in violent agreement?)

-b

re: .last

You either left out a (few) step (s) or get what you asked for.
if you use the default kit voices, taa-daa, you end up with default
kit voices.

If you don't hit record/voices to save 'em, if you go to another
pattern then come back, they b gone back to default on ya. 

Like ralphy said too, if you erase/pattern, you've effectively
erased all your attributes to this pattern.  

I don't see any of this as being any great inconsistancy.

    I use essentially the same set most of the time...what I've done is
    build that set in an empty, non-8 beat pattern (usually pattern 100). I
    then copy it to whatever pattern I intend to work with. This coudl
    be used with any number of set ups, and stored to tape, via midi
    etc. with all patterns/songs empty and just several patterns set
    up with your most common kit set ups.
    
    A pain for sure but sometimes we sacrifice in performance to gain in
    flexability. 
                
    dbII

    I basically use the same 'kit' all the time, so I disabled the
    parameter that allows changing kits (forget what it's called).
    But basically, I don't have to worry about storing tune, mix
    or level assignments. They just *are*...
    
    Edd
    
    P.S. How many people think the bass drums are tuned toooooo high?
         I use #1 kick tuned -9....

    Evidently I am not making myself clear. 

    I know how to save a pattern, guys.  I wasn't trying to be painfully
    complete.  My point is that writing a note to a pattern and then
    subsequently erasing *THAT PARTICULAR NOTE* (read my lips) WILL NOT
    CAUSE THE PATTERN TO BE SAVED IF THE PATTERN LENGTH HAS NOT BEEN
    CHANGED.

    It was insinuated earlier that "kits" could be saved in each pattern
    by: 

	a) accessing the pattern (without changing the length)
	b) writing one  note
	c) deleting that same note (NOT THE PATTERN)

    And it doesn't work.  You can't have an empty pattern sticking around
    without changing its length from 8 bars.

-b

    
    
    I'm not quite sure I follow you...here's what I do, see if this
    corresponds to what you're doing.
    
    Set up a pattern with the kit you want, say pattern #1.  Save
    all your pertinent info...mix, tune, voices, etc.  Now write
    a snare hit on 00/96 on that pattern.  Now copy pattern 1
    to pattern 2,3,4,5 (assuming they're all empty) until you've
    got as many patterns as you need.  When you go to program a
    pattern, the first thing is to erase that original snare hit.
    
    This has been working fine for me.  Maybe you've got a bug???
    
    ralph
    
    

    Edd say some more about this..
    
    Did you set your default kit up and then disable changes? I don't
    remember that option but every time I fire the thing up I find that
    I don't remember something....   
    
    dbII

    It's probably best to disable and then set-up the kit...
    
    Somewhere in the MIDI menu (press the top button, you know, the
    one that you'd press to do note assignments et al...), somewhere
    in there is a parameter that you disable. I disabled it and now
    the machine just stays in whatever state I left it in. (Today
    it's in Michigan.)
    
    ....so, I set up my 'kit' but occasionally I'll want to trade
    a tamborine in for a clave, or retune 1 crash cymbal or turn
    down the level on one of the toms. I simply go in, do it, and
    exit. The change gets remembered without saving it (even after
    power-down) and is valid for all the patterns regardless of
    their length or whatever edits have or haven't been made to them.
    
    I'll try to remember to get the name of the parameter tonite. Is
    there one called 'Receive Pattern Change'? I'll look it up...
    
    Edd

RE: ralph

    Ok.  We're coming from different perspectives.  And you're right - I'm
    just hearing what I want to hear.  No bug - brain damage.  8-)

RE: Edd

    The parameter is called MIDI PATTERN CHANGE (unless I've completely
    lost my mind). 

-b

Edd,

I think that you are referring to the MANUAL VOICE/TUNE/MIX parameter that I
described back in .61

dave

    Boy, I sure am glad I got to join this club...
    
    len.
    

    Re: my HR-16 'digital grunge' problem of earlier notes:
    
    It happened again this weekend. It is *not* my imagination.

    The reason it didn't happen at the music store, or when I got back
    home was that it only shows up after the unit has been on for a
    few hours.  I almost never have that kind of block time to play with my
    toys, but I did the weekend of the first time I had the problem,
    and again this weekend.  Allowing the unit to cool off made the
    problem go away.
    
    Oh well, at least I know I'm not nuts; but in this case, I almost
    wish I were...
    
    Funny - in a way, it *was* related to the air conditioning: there
    wasn't enough of it.   :-)

    Rodney M.
    
    P.S. Thanx for the phone number, Bill.

    Do you know if it was the wallbug or the unit itself that caused
    the grunge?
    
    Steve

    My HR is going back to Alesis.  Pads are so bad that I can't get decent
    consistent triggers/levels out of 'em. 

    Maybe they'll put in the right number of screws this time, too. 8-( 

-b

    re. .378
    
    Y'know, I never thought it might be the wall bug. I just assumed
    one of the chips inside the HR-16 itself was going south when it
    got warm.  I'll try a different wall bug tonight and see if it makes
    any difference.  Thanks for the suggestion.
    
    Rodney M.

    If this has been answered elsewhere, point me in the right direction...
    
    I'd like to send commands to my HR-16 to simulate pushing its buttons.
    That is, can I send a specific MIDI byte or bytes to simulate pressing
    the "Tempo" button, followed by a tempo?  Can I send a MIDI command
    to simulate pressing the ">" button?  Will standard MIDI START/STOP
    commands be recognized?  My manual has its midi implementation,
    but does not specify these; are they listed anywhere; are these
    all "standardize" MIDI commands?
    
    	-Jim

    
    re: .-1
    
      Jim, there is a subtle difference between 'front panel commands'
    and 'MIDI commands'. For instance, I don't know of any 'MIDI power
    ON' command.... 
    
      The Alesis MIDI implementation charts aren't too bad as far as
    implementation charts go. MIDI start/stop is recognized, but tempo,
    which is a clock control, isn't a MIDI command, therefore it doesn;t
    get recognized even in sysex. If you want to change clock rates from
    your sequencer, then use your sequencer's clock and set the HR-16
    in "EXT.CLOCK" mode.
    
      Note 1311 seems to talk about MIDI in general, it might be worthwhile
    to pick up a book ("The Last MIDI Book" is what I have, it's pretty
    much a complete explanation). But the MIDI commands are explained
    there, and most boxes now recognize the big ones like START, STOP,
    SYSEX, NOTE ON, etc...
    
      Hope this helps...
    
    /pjh
    

    Sounds like kind of a shame.  For what it's worth, some sequencers
    (like ... ahem ... my QX5) can respond to tempo change commands
    via some form of sysex.
    
    Steve

RE: .383 (rathole alert! 8-)

    Are you sure that it will do this when *IT* is acting as the master
    clock in the network?  The HR will respond to tempo fluctuations when
    it's synced to a MIDI clock (any sync-able machine worth its salt
    will), but I'm sure that you can't tell it to slow down when it's
    acting as the master. 

    As an aside, I wish my stupid KX76 would tell me the BPM of its MIDI
    clock from the front panel.  8-(

-b

    Well, I don't have my manual handy.  But, I'm pretty sure the QX5
    will respond to tempo controls when it's providing the clock.
    
    Steve

    Re .382
    
    I (author of .381) refer to simulating "pressing buttons" because
    I often read, in discussion of Yamaha gear in particular, of "using
    MIDI commands to simulate pressing a front-panel button", probably
    for use by patch-editing programs, etc.  I don't understand alot
    about the more subtle uses of MIDI, etc.
    
    I am trying to control my HR-16 with a Peavey floor device that
    can send as many as 14 MIDI bytes when I stomp on one of its foot-
    switches.,  i.e I'm NOT using a sequencer.  I want to be able to
    hit a button, and have the Peavey tell the HR-16 to "go to the NEXT
    pattern" or "increase the tempo by 1 BPM" etc.  I already use the
    Peavey to send Note On's (Crash!) or start/stop.  Can I somehow
    use it to "tell" the HR-16 to increment to the NEXT pattern, decrement
    to the previous pattern (I store "variations" on each pattern
    numerically "near" the main pattern), or to make subtle changes
    in tempo?
    
    	-Jim
    
    P.S. Thanks for the responses I've seen so far to my queries...

RE: .385 (Steve)

    Hmmm - well, when you get a chance, check it out and post it.  I'm
    curious now. 

RE: .386 (Jim)

    The HR-16 responds to MIDI patch change commands by changing the
    pattern to n-1.  For example, if you told the HR to "select patch 77",
    you would get pattern 76 (because the system is zero based).  I don't
    know for sure if there's such a thing as a standard MIDI "increment
    patch" command - I kind of doubt it.  Since the HR understands defined
    MIDI controllers, I doubt that there'll be a SYSEX implementation to
    let you do what you want. 

    And even though you probably can't change tempo via SYSEX, you may be
    able to cheat somehow since tempos are stored per pattern. 

    I'd give Alesis a call - they *should* know.  Good luck.

-b

	I got  hold of the SysEx infromation for the HR16 and its
	disapointing.

	You have  to  walk  over  the  to  HR16 and play with its
	buttons to get a MIDI dump.  The Dump is an image dump of
	the  memory  contents  inside  the HR16.  The interesting
	stuff  is  explained  in the Alesis info on SysEx.  There
	are  large  chunks  of the SysEx data that it simply says
	"don't change".

	Having changed  the  SysEx data all you can do is dump it
	back  into  the  box.   Alesis  do  not  seem  to  have a
	Manufactures  number.   The  HR16  SysEx does not seem to
	have a type code in the SysEx data. So...

	You cannot simulate button pushing.

	The program  change  messages  only  work  if you are not
	using the sequencer in the HR16.

	Yes you  can  get  the HR16 to respond to START, STOP and
	CONTINUE messages.

			BArry

Ooops.  Checked over the QX5 manual and one cannot make the QX5 alter tempo of
its internal clock over MIDI.


Steve

    Just talked to Alesis.
    
    Of course I put in my standard plea for step backwards.
    
    The Alesis guy told me something I didn't know (it certainly wasn't
    in the manual I got with mine) which sorta helps, although not very much.
    
    Apparently in step mode, you can still push PLAY, and it will play
    and advance the position pointer exactly as it would if you weren't
    in step mode.  So in some sense, you can use it like a fast-forward.
    
    This is helpful if you write long patterns and need to do something
    like edit the velocity of an unquantized note in bar 16. 
    
    Other tidbits.  The current software rev is 1.09.  Alesis will update
    any unit for FREE but you have to send it to CA unfortunately.
    I didn't get the impression that there were any significant features
    added other than the ability to do Song-position-pointer.
    
    He was not privvy to what was being done in V2 as the software for it
    is contracted out.
    
    	db

    I also talked to a rep at Alesis about this ... step backwards *will*
    be in the next major software release.  The rep not only talked to me
    for a very long time (read: chit chat) but also sent me a personal
    letter with QuadraVerb specs. 

    I'm not so sure that it wouldn't be possible to put together a wish
    list of HR features and mail it to Alesis ... AND to get them to
    implement a good deal of the changes.

-b

    ...ask them to implement a "kill the internal clock" parameter.
    
    Edd

    I saw a limo cruising through West LA with a license plate that
    read "ALESIS 2".  I pulled up beside the blacked out window and
    started screaming (in my best Sam Kinnison) I WANNA BE ABLE TO STEP
    BACKWARDS!!!  WHY CAN'T MY HR-16 STEP BACKWARDS???  FIX IT!  YAAAHH!
    
    The window came down about an inch, and then went back up.
    
    Yes, your voice can be heard by alesis.
    
    Ashley

    A totally useless HR-16 tidbit:
    
    	Holding the PLAY button down and then consecutively hitting
    	Bass Drum, Snare and then Close HH gives you a screen with the
        HR-16's developers names.
    
    I think that's the sequence that does it.  If not, will correct
    tommorrow morning.
    
    	db

    re: -.1
    
    This little tid-bit is getting to be the most common piece of MIDI
    trivia running. It's mentioned at least 3 times in this file.
    
    It's going to be right up there with "How did Steely Dan get their
    name??" in trivia-heaven...
    
    ;^)
    Edd

    ...and for those of you looking to get some different sounds outta
    your HR-16s, try assigning the same note number to 2 different
    pads, assigning the same sound to those pads and then play the
    appropriate key from your controller.
    
    Flange city...
    
    Make sure the pads are assigned to the same output jack...
    
    Edd

    Actually, one of my "great discoveries" about doing things with the
    HR was to layer drum sounds for particular effects:
    
    Like rim-shot and snare as part of a flam type riff
    
    Or like a 8 velocity Ride layered with a 1 velocity crash.
    
    Or using crash with foot-closed HH on the HH pads to get a
    hand-muted crash type thing...
    
    	db

    I'm a new HR16 and Midiverb II buyer.
    
    It's my first machine (my Casio CPS-101 doesn't count, right?).  
    I'm a total novice at "creating", although I've been spinning "house
    music" for upteen years.
    
    Someone congratulate me!
    
    "jackin' the house", Bob

    Ok, congratulations.
    
    I trust you'll be posting lotsa house rhythms?
    
    Edd

    re .399	I'll congratulate you too !  
    
    	Reg
    
    	{SeeYa around the conferences:-^) }
    

    One thing that always kinda bothered me about my drum patterns was
    the high-hat. Typically, I'd use a closed HH on 8th notes, throwing
    in an open HH on "4 and" every other measure or so, or as needed.
    
    ...but that incessant "tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick,
    shoop", while fine for dance music, didn't even come close to cutting
    the cake for R n' R.
    
    So, Sunday I put some effort into seeing why this was so. I'd been
    watching the drummer from theband I'd been working with and realized
    he rarely close his HH all the way down. Taking the hint, I substituted
    the 1/2 open HH voice for the CHH on a couple patterns.
    
    YUCK!!! Truncation city!!!
    
    Then I assigned the 1/2OHH sample to 2 pads and alternated betwixt
    them. Major difference! Nice trashy sound. Especially effective
    when alternating twixt 1/4 and 1/8 notes........
    
    Ed

    You might also try using both Closed HiHat A and CHH B in the same
    pattern, to effect minor timbral differences.  Also, consider the
    use of a little dynamics in the hihat part.  The 1/2open hihat on
    the HR-16 is really quite open; the problem is you really need
    something more like 4 HiHat sounds - tight closed, closed, 1/8open,
    1/4open.
    
    To repeat from something I said in some other note, I set up my
    basic HR-16 configuration as follows:
    
    	 Pad	 Voice   
    	-----	-------
    
    	kick	kick
    	snare	snare
    	tom1	hi tom
    	tom2	med/hi tom
    	tom3	med tom
    	tom4	med/low tom
    	perc1	low tom
    	cl hh	foot cl hh
    	half hh	half hh
    	open hh	open hh
    	ride	crash1
    	crash	ride
    	clap	cl hh A
    	perc2	crash2
    	perc3	cl hh B
    	perc4	bell ride	
  
    The pads may not be exactly right (this is from "memory", remember),
    but they're close.  This setup gives me a basic kit that comes close
    to what I can do with my acoustic kit, but with no "percussion"
    adjuncts.  (My acoustic kit has 5 toms, 4 crashes and 2 rides; note
    the assignment of *9* pads to cymbals!)
    
    len.
    

    Re: My HR-16's 'digital grunge' problem I described way back in .336. 
    Thought I'd provide closure, in case anyone else's unit develops
    a similar problem.
    
    I took the unit back to the Music Workshop in Salem, NH, just before
    Christmas.  I got it back the Tuesday after New Year's.  The diagnosis
    by Alesis was that there was a problem with the D/A conversion circuit;
    now it's quiet as the proverbial church mouse.  
    
    I'm a happy camper again.

    Rodney M.	
    

    Since this is the semi-official respository for HR stuff..
    
    Brad who did youdal with at Alesis? I just spent a few minuites
    on the phone with Doug in service and here's what he told me:
    
    1. there is no timing resolution problem in any rev of the software,
       and it was therefore never fixed
    2. they will not update my 1.03 machine as there is no update
    3. backwards step will not be implemented
    4. if I have timing problems programming via a pad it's the pad's
       fault or mine (ie: you're not a drummer)  
    5. they are willing  to look at the machine to see if it's broken
       but they doubt it
       
    dbii
    
    

    Gee, I read about that back-stepping feature being implemented in
    Keyboard...
    
    I once spoke to someone in Alesis' service dept. I got the impression
    whoever it was I spoke to was really irked at being asked to think.
    
    Edd

    re dbII
    
    I don't know who you talked to, but I know they were wrong on at
    least one point.  When I had my '16 in for repair they updated the
    s/w from 1.03 to 1.09, if the power up message is to be believed,
    and I believe it.  Given that, I wouldn't believe whatever else
    they said, either.
    
    Rodney M.
    

    You got a hold of another prep H poster child.  Too bad.

    I talked with David Pavlovitch (not customer relations - this guy is in
    the actual service department, and talked like he was a hardware
    techie).  He's one of the most reasonable fellows I've ever talked to,
    and was quite helpful. 

    I know for a FACT that there most certainly IS a new s/w rev.  I'm
    looking at the power up message right now, and it says 1.09 (mine used
    to say 1.06 - both are greater than 1.03 no matter how you slice it).

    I'm with Brian - ignore the kook and trust me.  &*}

-b

    
    Anybody heard the latest price quote on an HR16??
    
    
    Mike D

    Prompted by the MRC commercial reviews in the MC-500 note:
    
    I was amazed at the Keyboard review of the HR-16. In particular,
    the reviewer bashes the documentation mercilessly and then gives
    it a 'B'.
    
    On a 2 point scale??
    
    Edd

    I've become a bigtime user of the "blank note sheets" that come
    with equipment these days.  Y'know... those forms that allow you
    to write down the patches you create for your synth, or the track
    arrangements of your sequencer, etc.
    
    My HR-16 didn't come with anything like that, so I created one on
    the Mac this week.
    
    It occurred to me that others might want something like this but not
    want to bother creating one themselves so I'm gonna offer to send
    a copy of mine to whomever wants one.
    
    It's pretty simple:  It has blank lines for Song title, Pattern #,
    Date, Length, overall Quantization, and space for general notes.
    
    There is also a table.  The table has a row for each pad (and click)
    and columns for Voice, tune, volume, mix, quantization and MIDI note
    #.
    
    Note that there's nothing to indicate the contents (notes) in the
    track. 
    
    If you want me to send you a copy (which you can then copy to make
    more copies), send me mail (FORWARD/AUTH works right from NOTES).
    
    I'd be interested in hearing suggestions on ways to improve it,
    although it's not something I plan to spend much time on.
    
    	db

    re .412 - FORWARD/AUTH doesn't work, I get "unrecognized qualifier".
    
    There's a similar HR-16 programming sheet in a back issue of Electronic
    Musician, and a copy of it appeared in the latest Alesis newsletter.
    I posted a similar online sheet somewhere in this note, I think.
    
    But send me a copy anyway, I can't resist free paper...
    
    len.
    
    
     

    FORWARD/AUTH certainly works for me.  I'm running Notes T02.0.
    
    It's not documented, but it's there.
    
    SEND/AUTH does something different.  If you did SEND/AUTH and
    said "send me one", I might not have any idea what you're talking
    about because it doesn't include the text of the note that your
    responding to.
    
    	db

    It doesn't exist in the current (released) version of VAXnotes. 

    So if you want it, send Blickstein mail with a subject reading
    something like:

	Send me the HR16 layout, moosebreath.

    For best results, delete 'moosebreath'.

-b

    The one I made up is at reply .344 in this note.
    
    len.
    

	Maybe this has been asked before, but I can't find it.

	My understanding of the HR16 is that you set up 'kits' by assigning
sounds to pads/midi-note-numbers.  This takes care of its 15/16 voice polyphony.
But is there a mode in the HR that allows you to access ALL sounds via midi, 
so long as you don't exceed its voice limits?  Or do you have to set up
separate 'kits' and do a control change?

	Dan

< Note 1064.418 by NRPUR::DEATON >
                  -< Are all sounds available at all times? >-

>But is there a mode in the HR that allows you to access ALL sounds via midi, 
>so long as you don't exceed its voice limits?  Or do you have to set up
>separate 'kits' and do a control change?

Dan,

As far as I can remember, you can assign a different MIDI note number to
every instrument sound, and then access it via that note number. I think the
kits just refer to which sounds are active on the pads and within a pattern
that exists on the HR16.

dave

    I do believe you're limited to the number of pads +1 (click) in
    the number of voices you can access.
    
    Note numbers are assigned to the pads (or click) NOT the sample.
    
    Edd

    Yes but, you can access any sound via it's Midi note regardless of
    the pad assignments, at least it seems to work that way at my house...
    
    SOunds are assigned to the pads, that sound's midi note also goes
    to the pad, if you cahnge the sample assigned to a pad it's midi
    note changes...I think
    
    dbii
    

	Well, be careful how you think about it.
        I'm responding to this because maybe there is functionality
        that I don't understand that I'd like to have:

        You assign midi notes to PADS, not to VOICES. 
        Ok, maybe that's intuitively obvious. 
        Once you've assigned the midi note to the pad, the only voice
        you get off of that midi note is whatever voice is assigned to
        the pad.

        This is where - if I'm wrong - somebody please PLEEEEZ correct me.

        I've set up various kits in different patterns using different
        voices, but the midi-note selection is the same 16 notes for all
        kits (patterns).

        Since I use an octapad to fire my hr16, i've simply defined midi
        notes 1-16 to correspond to the 16 pads on the hr16, and set up
        the octapda the same way...(bank A = 1-8, bank B = 9-16, C and D
        I use for combinations).

        Since I don't have any horrificly huge midi set up (yet!) like some
        of the folks here, this works for me - I just use channel 1 for all
        notes: no big deal.

        I'd still like to learn if there's a way of assigning a different
        set of MIDI notes to pads on a pattern basis. But I don't think
        this is possible.

ok - db & ec snuck in ahead of me.
i still don't think you can play anything not assigned to a pad.
(that's what i meant in my last note about assigning notes to pads.
maybe you do assign note to voices - but can't play them unless they're
assigned to pads? arf. i was totally confident a minute ago
now i can't remember...i iz confused!)

Edd, Butch, et al...

I think you guys are right. I was thinking of the R-8... rather fondly too...

8^))

dave

    > Iwas thinking of the R-8...
    
    Go ahead, rub it in...;^)
    
    Anyhow, not to seem cocky, but I'm sure of my other statement.
    Pads, not samples...
    
    Edd

>    Yes but, you can access any sound via it's Midi note regardless of
>    the pad assignments, at least it seems to work that way at my house...

	Can someone try to verify this with the manual or hands-on over the 
weekend?

	Also, if this is possible (that is, access to ALL samples via MIDI),
would that mean that you just get the bare-bones sample and no tuning/panning
capabilities?  Would they go out the stereo outs in a preset panning 
arrangement?

	Dan

    ...and the reason I'm sure is because you actually have to push
    the pads during the note assignment process...
    
    Edd

	I've tried this. No, I can't get it to play more than 16 + click.

	This is because the HR16 has this nasty requirement that you must
	map voices to pads to make a pattern. And you only get to play notes
	assigned to a pad over MIDI since they are all that are in the pattern.

	And you gotta save the whole pattern to make the HR remember them,
	and in order to do that, you gotta press rec+play and hit a pad or
	else you haven't played anything, so it wouldn't remember.

	did you follow any of this rambling?

	/pjh, 2000+ lines of code later

>>    Yes but, you can access any sound via it's Midi note regardless of
>>    the pad assignments, at least it seems to work that way at my house...

>	Can someone try to verify this with the manual or hands-on over the 
>weekend?
    
    It would be impossible to verify this because it is untrue.
    
    You can ONLY access a sound if its assigned to a pad.
    
    End of story.
    
    	db

>	And you gotta save the whole pattern to make the HR remember them,
>	and in order to do that, you gotta press rec+play and hit a pad or
>	else you haven't played anything, so it wouldn't remember.

        wayyylll,  actually,  doing anything other than leaving default
        settings 'saves' the pattern. Ie, change length to 1 will do it
        too  &  is  easier  to  remember than hitting a pad to record 1
        beat. I just about never leave the length on  8  anyway,  so  i
        always  make  a  habit  of  changing  length  first  which will
        automatically save any nonsense I do in thep attern I'm working
        in.

        side note: the 'sound  stacking'  idea  that  alesis  likes  to
        promote is really alot of fun. BUT. 

        As  we've noted (ha, ha) you have to assign voices to pads, and
        midi notes to voices via pads. to stack, you need to assign the
        same  midi  note  to  several  pads. consequently, you lose the
        number of pads involved in the stack for independant use.

        Try stacking 6 or 7 sounds to 2 notes & all of sudden half your
        kit is gone. Since the midi assignments are  global  (per  pad)
        rather than per pattern... major bummer.

    I run v1.09 of the HR software.  You can only assign MIDI note-ins to
    pads - that means only 16 notes may be triggered via MIDI.  I've also
    tried to trigger the CLICK via a MIDI note number, and I have not been
    successful.  It just doesn't work. 

    I asked this specific question of an Alesis rep a few months ago (that
    is, can I now or will I ever be able to access all the samples from
    MIDI?).  His answer was very simple - "the architecture doesn't allow
    for this".

-b

    
    I just talked to a salesman at Daddy's in Salem NH, and he told
    me that Alesis has just dropped the list price of the HR-16 from
    $449 to $399. Apparently the HR-16B is also going for $399. 
    
    
    Mike D

    HR-16*B*?
    
    Que pasa?
    
    Edd

< Note 1064.433 by WEFXEM::COTE "I bought a guitar? Where's MIDI IN?" >
                         -< Argh, there goes $400... >-

    HR-16*B*?
    
    Que pasa?
    
Edd,

The HR16B is designed to augment the HR16 by providing additional new sounds.
It is not a replacement for the HR16. Incidentally, isn't MIDI IN on
the plectrum? 8^))

dave

    Is it a chip set? No expansion port on HR, y'know?
    
    Edd (who_can't_step_time_his_strato_copy)

    Does anyone have more detail on the HR16-B?? How do they
    interconnect/interact with each other.
    
    Jim
    
    

    There's a separate HR16B topic (DIR/TITL="HR16B").

    As far as I know, it's just another box.  I assume you cable them
    together (MIDI OUT->MIDI IN) using echo back where/when necessary. 

    Make sure both units are assigned to the same MIDI channel, and use
    MIDI note assignments to assign notes to pads.  All kinds of
    flexibility in this kind of setup.

-b

    I routinely run four drum machines in parallel, so I assume you'd
    use an HR-16 and an HR-16B the same way.
    
    The person who said that you can get at all sounds regardless of
    the pad assignments is right, sort of, if you interpret that statement
    properly - you can get at any sound, regardless of what pad it's
    been assigned to, simply by accessing the note nyumber assigned
    to that pad.  You *can't* get at all sounds simultaneously, because
    the HR-16 only recognizes 16 note numbers at any given time, namely
    those assigned to the pad.
    
    I'm curious about the MIDI note number assigned to the click.  The
    manual says you can do so, but Dan says it won't sound.
    
    Was gibt?  (Sort of "que pasa" auf Deutsch).
    
    len.
    

                       <Stupid story followed by a plea>

       Such and embarassing thing to write:

       I just took the first steps toward MIDIfying my drumming:
       I purchased an HR16.   yay!
                                                             
       I  run  home  all excited about my new HR16, plug it in, crank up 
       the  volume and start up the factory demo patterns... My wife ran 
       screaming out the front door, thinking the house had been invaded 
       by  a tribe of acid-crazed rock-n-roll Watusi drummers from hell. 
       I loved it. {has anybody seen my wife ?}

       Sooo...here comes the embarassing part <Boy, do I feel stupid>: I 
       immediately  set  to long get-acquainted session with programming 
       this  thing  (You were right, Edd. Your aim has to be *real* good 
       to  use  sticks  ;^)).  After about 3 hours, I managed to get the 
       thing locked up [i don't remember how it happened.] 

       I  read  in  the  manual how to clear memory on the thing and did 
       exactly  as  it  said. Fine. It cleared memory all right! It came 
       back  completely  clean.  Sans demo patterns!! My beloved Burundi 
       brethren were gone to the great magnetic void... alas and alack.

       Thus the plea:

       Are there any HR16 owners out there who'd be willing to loan me a 
       tape  backup of their HR16 demo patters, so I can restore them to 
       my  HR16  ?  I  had  hoped  to study the demo patterns so I could 
       better program this thing...  I promise to return the tape in mint
       or better condition.

       And  THIS  from  a  person  to  whom  regular system backups is a 
       Religion! Arrggh...

       Suitably sheepish, 
       doug

    Doesn't the HR-16 have a "reinitialize demo" secret power-up button
    combination?  My "obsolete" TR-707 does...
    
    len.
    

    Yeah.... that'd be great!  Then I'd just have to figure out how
    to put *MY* name in memory where the developers' names are.  Wouldn't
    that be cute!
    
    I have since had time to scour the manual and I haven't read anything
    about said "Magic Restore Demo Key Sequence" . Neither have I read
    anything about that in this forum...  :-(
    
    /doug
    
    
    

    There's certainly nothing like that documented.
    
    	db

    Where are you physically located?
    	
    
    	-Bill

    The very first thing I did when I powered up my HR was *intentionally*
    blow away the demo doolies....
    
    Real men don't use demo-patterns.
    
    Edd

    Edd, I can't stand it.  &*}

    db is correct - there is no way to restore the factory demo.  Seems to
    me that the 707 has its demo in ROM somewhere - Alesis left that option
    out to cut corne- er, costs. 

    Anyway, if you have an Atari ST with a generic SYSEX dumper, I can load
    the dump up to the net for you. 

-b

    Re. ? 
    
    When I am working, I am located at PDM (Marlboro, MA).   When I am not
    working I am also located there, but don't tell my manager. ;^)
    
    Re .444
     >   The very first thing I did when I powered up my HR was *intentionally*
     >   blow away the demo doolies....
    
    Well, Edd you're obviously a seasoned drum programmer and probably
    wouldn't learn much more from the demos, anyway.  I'm just a drummer
    trying to come to grips with this whole MIDI thang...  I had hoped to
    disect the patterns and see what it was that I liked or didn't like
    about each as an exercise.  Disregarding issues of taste, I thought the
    sounds were incredible.  Can't think of many of the demo patterns that
    would have fit into a song very well (??tuned triangles??) , but I
    liked em anyway. 
    
    Re .445
    
    I got a Rainbow (har har har!)
     
    This Alesis unit is my *first* step toward MIDIfication.   It is
    currently my ONLY piece of MIDI gear, although I will be buying a PM16
    soon. *Then* comes the computer.  I have only been able to justify the
    purchase of this stuff on the grounds of,

          "Gee honey, If I had XXX and yyy I could use a volume control and
          headphones.... Wouln't that be much nicer than me wailing on my
          drums at night ?"

    As such, I ain't got no steenking MIDI computer.   Yet.    All things
    in due time....don't want to arouse any suspicions with my better half.
    ;^) 

    /doug

    Actually, I'm not an experienced drum machine programmer, unless
    you count a 2 year mishap with an RX-21...
    
    I blew them away so I'd *force* myself to learn the thing inside
    and out. Nothing like gettin' your hands dirty, ya know? It's what
    works for me...
    
    Edd

    Z~BTW- I just verified...
    
    Although the HR allows you to assign a note number to the click,
    there was no way I found to access it.
    
    Edd

    If no one else volunteers I'll make a cassete dump for you (seems
    like I did this for another rather quiet noter...) 
    
    so send me a tape to put it on, high quality tape seems to be the
    only thing that is transportable from machine to machine (like Maxelll
    UDXL-II etc.)                                                 
    
    There is a very good book on drum programming you can get from MIX
    bookshelf (800-233-9604) called "How to make your drum machine sound
    like a drummer" ($21.95 I think). If you're a novice I recommend it, I
    also recommend getting a copy of Len Feshken's "Drums and Drumming for
    the total non-drumming person". I have a printer ready copy of it here
    if you don't wish to search MUSIC.note for it...
    
    my address (for the tape)
    
    Dave Bottom
    RR1 Box 1890
    Palermo, Maine 04354
              
    dbii

    
    Does anyone know what firmware rev they are up to on the HR-16?
    The last I heard, it was 1.09. Also, forgive this question but I
    don't have time to go through 400+ replies to find out and I don't
    even have an HR-16 yet, but what is the sequence of buttons you push
    to find out what the rev is?
    
    Mike D

Mike,

The firmware rev appears in the window when you first apply power. You have
to look quickly though. It doesn't stay there for very long.

dave

    Folks,
    
    I am a total novice when it comes to Drum m/cs and would like to
    know the answer to this question:
    
    How many songs can be stored in the HR16 realistically???
    
    I form 50% of a two-piece setup who are considering upgrading from
    a "simple" (& boring!) built-in m/c within a keyboard to a good
    separate box.
    
    At the same time we want to use songs almost exclusively and hence
    the attraction of "100" compared to most affordable m/cs 10-20.
    
    Can someone who has used/is using a HR16 live give me an idea of
    practical song storage capability?
    
    ...Sean

    Songs take up very little memory, they only consist of pointers
    to patterns. 100 isn't unrealistic.
    
    Whether you can store all the proper patterns is the question. Using
    the same basic pattern between many songs takes next to no memory.
    All you need is fills, intros, endings, breaks, etc.
    
    Edd

    Edd's mostly right, but as a drummer I naturally tend to respond
    poorly to the notion that most songs share the same basic drum patterns
    for the bulk of their measures.  Unless you deliberately design
    your sets to be monotonous in this regard, you'll actually find
    that a typically varied mix of songs used in a set will in fact
    share vary little in the way of basic drum patterns.  It was not
    unusual for me to program a dozen songs into my TR-707 (4 onboard,
    8 in an M64C cartridge), and have *no* patterns in common; but then,
    I'm a drummer and "minor" differences in patterns between songs
    are important to me.  (The TR-707 allows you to share 64 patterns
    among 4 songs; with the cartridge, you can store 192 patterns (64
    onboard, 128 in the cartridge), but you can still only get at them
    in groups of 64 shared by 4 songs.)  
    
    But Edd's main point is right on - it's not the number of songs
    that the drum machine will let you address that's the practical
    limitation, it's the number of patterns you can store in the machine
    at one time.  I believe the HR-16 supports 100 patterns; in practice,
    I'd say that corresponds to about 8 songs, unless you've tried quite
    deliberately to make them all have the same basic drum patterns.
    
    The simplest songs I've ever programmed have had at least 4 patterns;
    a realistically varied (i.e., non-robotic) drum part typically entails
    at least 12 to 16, and I have programmed parts for representative
    100 bar pop tunes with 30 or so patterns.
    
    len.
    

    Len's points are well taken...
    
    but
    
    If you're providing 'background' music, where your performance is
    secondary to some other function, you could probably slide by with
    20-30 patterns arranged properly. Put together a few variations
    on this...
    
    HHC  * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 
    HHO                                *
    SD       *       *       *       *
    BD   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *
    
    ...by varying the BD and HHO.
    
    Then put together a few revs of...
    
    RC   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *
    SD       *       *       *       *
    BD   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *
    
    
    ...and you've got a verse and chorus structure that could take you
    through a half a million songs.
    
    Note, these aren't exciting patterns, just utilitarian. Joe Average
    won't give a care. Musicians in the audience will pooh-pooh these
    in a heartbeat. (But hey, you're gigging and they ain't!!!) Len
    and I would rip you to shreds and run you outta LERDS-BIM on a
    Vic Firth 5A. (But hey, you're gigging and we ain't!!!)
    
    Point is, face the fact that many people won't be coming to see
    *you* give a show. You're incidental to their reason d'etre. They
    probably won't pay much attention to exquisitely programmed drums.
    Basic beats will perform admirably much (not all) of the time.
    
    Edd

    Edd and I just love to agree...  At LERDS-BIMs, we often finish
    one another's sentences.
    
    My remarks are based on my use of drum machines for recording purposes.
    Edd's right, you can get away with murderous rhythmic monotony in
    a live (especially bar) performance situation where all people need
    to hear is the down beat and the backbeat and a coupla' flashy fills
    in the right places.
    
    But that 16th note hihat, four on the floor snare and "driving"
    8th note "obstinato" bass is enough to send me into seizures. 
    
    One minor thing though, my Vic Firths are 5B or Rock.  Only rock'n'roll
    wimps play with 5As.  ;^)
    
    len (who does actually have a pair of 7As for "lite rock").
                                          

    Ooops, sorry len, those patterns I typed in were *2* measures long,
    with an HHO misplaced by a 16th note...
    
    Edd

    Here's an interesting weirdism...
    
    Imbedding a tempo change step at the beginning (don't know about
    anywhere else) causes my QX to ignore SPP, regardless of where
    I start the song from (other than the beginning).
    
    I use the HR as the master clock in my system. If I press START
    the QX will start as per normal. However, if I move to any other
    step in the HR song, the sequencer burps and won't play. This ONLY
    happens if there is a tempo change in the drum sequence; eliminating
    it causes everything to be normal....
    
    Edd

A friend of mine bought an HR-16 a couple of months ago. It's still under 
warranty as far as I know. He's having a problem with an intermittent pad.
Rather than send it back to Alesis to get fixed (he bought it MO) and
waiting x weeks, he would like to just try and fix it himself if it's
something simple (like a dirty contact, cold solder, etc.). Can anyone 
who's had a similar problem offer suggestions? 

When the pad doesn't sound (when physically hit, not through MIDI), it also
doesn't record that particular hit into the pattern. I believe he said it
is the Tom3 pad.

Mike D

    As near as I could tell when I experienced a similar problem, there
    is little you can do to the pads...However, my problem with TOM3
    as a matter of fact was a bad output cord, tom3 is panned hard to
    one side and that cord was open, causing me to think the pad was
    not functional.
    
    dbii

    Yeah, check the pan position like Dave said, I just got beat up by that
    problem not 2 hours ago. Funky output jack. I fixed it in no time. 
    
    You can also check the piezos mounted under the pads. Easilt accesable
    from the inside.
    
    Edd

    
    Well, this may have been mentioned somewhere in the last several
    hundred replies, but I didn't see it so if I'm being redundant,
    my humble apologies ...

    Has anyone experienced the following problem with their HR16 ? I've
    had it happen to me a couple of times now and I'm wondering if it's
    a bug or my error.  The HR16 I have is running Vers 1.09 firmware.
    
    I recorded a drum pattern in step edit mode with a quantize value
    of 1/16.  Worked fine.  Next, I decided to add in a few snare accents
    in realtime program mode.  Following this, I wanted to go back into
    step edit mode and tweak the dynamics of some of the snare hits
    that I added.  As I stepped through, it played the snare hits, but
    said that the location was empty, therefore I couldn't modify the
    snare at all, nor could I erase it.  I found that I could hit the
    snare pad at one of these locations that were empty, and it would
    be inserted, however if I went back and erased said snare hit while
    in step mode, the one that was there previously (in the _empty_
    location) was still there.   Any explanations ?
    
    Thanks, Larry
    
    
    

    Did you notice if you were on the actual clock tick the original 
    note was inserted on?
    
    I noticed quite soon after I got my HR that if it was receiving MIDI
    CLOCK step editing was impossible. Always failed exactly the same way.
    
    ex: Step time enter the bass on 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 and 8. No problem.
        Step enter snare on 2,4,6 and 8. No problem.
        BUT!!! When attempting to enter the Hi-hat on 8th notes the
        machine would pick up an offset of "n" ticks and add that offset
        to each step. Instead of an 8th note happening on 48, 96, 144, 192,
        etc, it would happen on, say, 54, 102, 150 and 198, etc. 
    
    Although the offset would often vary, the algorhythm was always the
    same; pick up an offset, add it to the quantization size and retain
    it for the duration of the pattern. A different offset would often
    be picked up each time the pattern looped.
    
    Every time. Every HR I tested. Every sequencer I tried it with. It was
    absolutely cause by the presence of the clock signal at the IN port.
    
    I called Alesis and described it to them. Their reaction? (I'll never
    forget it....)
    
                 "Oh wow.... that's wierd..."
    
    Watch your clock pulse display in the window. See if you're really
    where you think you are...
    
    Edd

    Basically what has happened is that you have entered additional
    pattern data at a quantization granularity higher than that at
    which you are editing.
    easy to reproduce...
    set quantization to 1/32 insert snare hits on each clock step
    set quantization back to 1/16 and you will hear all the hits
    but only be able to edit those which fall on your quantization 
    marker points.
    Quite simple really. Try setting yourquantization to 1/96 or off
    although I have not as yet tried step edits with quantizaton off.
    
    Jim
    

    re:. Step edit with quantization off...
    
    You'll step through normally at 1/96th of a 1/4 note resolution.
    
    Edd

    Thanks for the responses guys ..
    
    re: .464 -
    
    I had the quantize value set to 1/16 for both step edit mode amd
    realtime mode.  I understand what you're saying about recording
    at 1/32 and then attempting to step edit at 1/16th. I'll look into
    this further tonite if I get the opportunity.
    
    Regards, Larry

I find the following chart useful in keeping track of what sounds
and tunings I have in what patterns, and what midi notes are assigned
to each.  The chart is basic and almost non-graphical except for how
I've set up the panning - you put an X in the box where pan is set
to.   I tried graphically arranging "tuning" but it turned out that
just writing the value of the tuning was faster and easier to read
than doing it graphically.  

Use one chart for pattern, make a notebook of them, have fun.
I've been using this for about a month now & it's come in more
handy than I thought it would.

If you have any comments or suggestions, mail them to me.

THE CHART IS IN POSTSCRIPT FORMAT - you know, print to an LPS40
with /param=data=post or an LN03r with /param=data=ps.

Make sure you delete the NOTES header and any lines through
(and including) the following form feed:

%!PS-Adobe-2.0 EPSF 1.2
%%File: AQUARIUS_MEG$ROOT:[LEITZ.JUNK.MUSIC]MAP_HR16.PS
%%Creator: PSART, PostScript ART 1.0, S. Jensen CXO ESDP
%%Copyright 1987,1988 DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION.  All Rights Reserved.
%%CreationDate: Thu May 18 17:04:00 1989
%%This file to be used standalone
%%BoundingBox: 131 57 481 735
%%DocumentFonts: PSART-Helvetica
%%This file processed with the following qualifiers:
%%
%%     /All_directions
%%     /Centered = 8.5
%%     /NoEncapsulated
%%     /NoIges
%%     /ISO (ISOLatin1 Character Encoding)
%%     /Output = AQUARIUS_MEG$ROOT:[LEITZ.JUNK.MUSIC]MAP_HR16.PS
%%     /NoPicmode
%%     /Rotate = 0.00 degrees
%%     /Size = 8        
%%     /Text_adjust = 4        
%%     /Thick = 1.44 points
%%     /Thin = 0.86 points
%%     /Type = HELV                         
%%     /Xoffset = 0.00 inches
%%     /Xscale = 1.00
%%     /Yoffset = 0.00 inches
%%     /Yscale = 2.00
%%
%% Analyzed character strings have maximum average width
%% of 5.00 points and a maximum average height of 6.04
%% points, with 3.02 points of leading between lines.
%%
%%EndComments

/reencode { findfont begin currentdict dup length dict begin { 1 index
/FID ne {def} {pop pop} ifelse } forall /FontName exch def dup length
0 ne { /Encoding Encoding 256 array copy def 0 exch { dup type
/nametype eq { Encoding 2 index 2 index put pop 1 add }{ exch pop }
ifelse } forall } if pop currentdict dup end end /FontName get exch
definefont pop } bind def mark /ISOLatin1 8#000 1 8#054
{StandardEncoding exch get} for /minus 8#056 1 8#217 {StandardEncoding
exch get} for /dotlessi 8#301 1 8#317 {StandardEncoding exch get} for
/space /exclamdown /cent /sterling /currency /yen /brokenbar /section
/dieresis /copyright /ordfeminine /guillemotleft /logicalnot /hyphen
/registered /macron /degree /plusminus /twosuperior /threesuperior
/acute /mu /paragraph /periodcentered /cedilla /onesuperior
/ordmasculine /guillemotright /onequarter /onehalf /threequarters
/questiondown /Agrave /Aacute /Acircumflex /Atilde /Adieresis /Aring
/AE /Ccedilla /Egrave /Eacute /Ecircumflex /Edieresis /Igrave /Iacute
/Icircumflex /Idieresis /Eth /Ntilde /Ograve /Oacute /Ocircumflex
/Otilde /Odieresis /multiply /Oslash /Ugrave /Uacute /Ucircumflex
/Udieresis /Yacute /Thorn /germandbls /agrave /aacute /acircumflex
/atilde /adieresis /aring /ae /ccedilla /egrave /eacute /ecircumflex
/edieresis /igrave /iacute /icircumflex /idieresis /eth /ntilde
/ograve /oacute /ocircumflex /otilde /odieresis /divide /oslash
/ugrave /uacute /ucircumflex /udieresis /yacute /thorn /ydieresis
/ISOLatin1 where not {256 array astore def} if cleartomark /DECMCS
ISOLatin1 256 array copy def mark 8#240 8#244 8#246 8#254 8#255 8#256
8#257 8#264 8#270 8#276 8#320 8#336 8#360 8#376 8#377 counttomark
{DECMCS exch /.notdef put} repeat 8#250 /currency 8#327 /OE 8#335
/Ydieresis 8#367 /oe 8#375 /ydieresis counttomark -1 bitshift {DECMCS
3 1 roll put} repeat cleartomark 
%

%%Page
[1.00 0.00 0.00 2.00 129.80 58.48] concat
1 setlinecap 1 setlinejoin
ISOLatin1 /PSART-Helvetica /Helvetica reencode
/PSART-Helvetica findfont 8 scalefont setfont
1.81 332.20  moveto 0.40 0.00 (PATTERN:) ashow
41.27 323.14  moveto 0.40 0.00 (----------------------------------------------------) ashow
75.34 305.02  moveto 0.40 0.00 (midi) ashow
75.34 295.96  moveto 0.40 0.00 (NOTE tuning) ashow
264.97 305.02  moveto 0.40 0.00 (panning) ashow
8.42 295.96  moveto 0.40 0.00 (pad) ashow
30.24 295.96  moveto 0.40 0.00 (SOUND) ashow
142.76 295.96  moveto 0.40 0.00 (LEVL out1 out2) ashow
218.20 295.96  moveto 0.40 0.00 (3) ashow
238.19 295.96  moveto 0.40 0.00 (2) ashow
258.18 295.96  moveto 0.40 0.00 (1) ashow
278.18 295.96  moveto 0.40 0.00 (0) ashow
298.17 295.96  moveto 0.40 0.00 (1) ashow
318.16 295.96  moveto 0.40 0.00 (2) ashow
338.15 295.96  moveto 0.40 0.00 (3) ashow
12.77 277.84  moveto 0.40 0.00 (1) ashow
10.35 114.76  moveto 0.40 0.00 (10) ashow
12.77 259.72  moveto 0.40 0.00 (2) ashow
10.35 96.64  moveto 0.40 0.00 (11) ashow
12.77 241.60  moveto 0.40 0.00 (3) ashow
10.35 78.52  moveto 0.40 0.00 (12) ashow
12.77 223.48  moveto 0.40 0.00 (4) ashow
10.35 60.40  moveto 0.40 0.00 (13) ashow
12.77 205.36  moveto 0.40 0.00 (5) ashow
10.35 42.28  moveto 0.40 0.00 (14) ashow
12.77 187.24  moveto 0.40 0.00 (6) ashow
10.35 24.16  moveto 0.40 0.00 (15) ashow
12.77 169.12  moveto 0.40 0.00 (7) ashow
10.35 6.04  moveto 0.40 0.00 (16) ashow
12.77 151.00  moveto 0.40 0.00 (8) ashow
12.77 132.88  moveto 0.40 0.00 (9) ashow
newpath 5.00 317.10  moveto 344.88 0.00  rlineto 1.44 setlinewidth stroke
newpath 5.00 289.92  moveto 344.88 0.00  rlineto 1.44 setlinewidth stroke
newpath 5.00 289.92  moveto 0.00 -289.92  rlineto 1.44 setlinewidth stroke
newpath 24.99 289.92  moveto 0.00 -289.92  rlineto 1.44 setlinewidth stroke
newpath 69.98 289.92  moveto 0.00 -289.92  rlineto 1.44 setlinewidth stroke
newpath 94.97 289.92  moveto 0.00 -289.92  rlineto 1.44 setlinewidth stroke
newpath 134.95 289.92  moveto 0.00 -289.92  rlineto 1.44 setlinewidth stroke
newpath 159.94 289.92  moveto 0.00 -289.92  rlineto 1.44 setlinewidth stroke
newpath 184.93 289.92  moveto 0.00 -289.92  rlineto 1.44 setlinewidth stroke
newpath 209.93 289.92  moveto 0.00 -289.92  rlineto 1.44 setlinewidth stroke
newpath 229.92 289.92  moveto 0.00 -289.92  rlineto 1.44 setlinewidth stroke
newpath 249.91 289.92  moveto 0.00 -289.92  rlineto 1.44 setlinewidth stroke
newpath 269.90 289.92  moveto 0.00 -289.92  rlineto 1.44 setlinewidth stroke
newpath 289.90 289.92  moveto 0.00 -289.92  rlineto 1.44 setlinewidth stroke
newpath 309.89 289.92  moveto 0.00 -289.92  rlineto 1.44 setlinewidth stroke
newpath 329.88 289.92  moveto 0.00 -289.92  rlineto 1.44 setlinewidth stroke
newpath 349.88 289.92  moveto 0.00 -289.92  rlineto 1.44 setlinewidth stroke
newpath 5.00 271.80  moveto 344.88 0.00  rlineto 1.44 setlinewidth stroke
newpath 5.00 253.68  moveto 344.88 0.00  rlineto 1.44 setlinewidth stroke
newpath 5.00 235.56  moveto 344.88 0.00  rlineto 1.44 setlinewidth stroke
newpath 5.00 217.44  moveto 344.88 0.00  rlineto 1.44 setlinewidth stroke
newpath 5.00 199.32  moveto 344.88 0.00  rlineto 1.44 setlinewidth stroke
newpath 5.00 181.20  moveto 344.88 0.00  rlineto 1.44 setlinewidth stroke
newpath 5.00 163.08  moveto 344.88 0.00  rlineto 1.44 setlinewidth stroke
newpath 5.00 144.96  moveto 344.88 0.00  rlineto 1.44 setlinewidth stroke
newpath 5.00 126.84  moveto 344.88 0.00  rlineto 1.44 setlinewidth stroke
newpath 5.00 108.72  moveto 344.88 0.00  rlineto 1.44 setlinewidth stroke
newpath 5.00 90.60  moveto 344.88 0.00  rlineto 1.44 setlinewidth stroke
newpath 5.00 72.48  moveto 344.88 0.00  rlineto 1.44 setlinewidth stroke
newpath 5.00 54.36  moveto 344.88 0.00  rlineto 1.44 setlinewidth stroke
newpath 5.00 36.24  moveto 344.88 0.00  rlineto 1.44 setlinewidth stroke
newpath 5.00 18.12  moveto 344.88 0.00  rlineto 1.44 setlinewidth stroke
newpath 5.00 0.00  moveto 344.88 0.00  rlineto 1.44 setlinewidth stroke
showpage
%%Trailer

I've got an HR16 now that I want to use purely as an SGU. I'll be
"playing" it from my remote keyboard, and creating patterns on the Atari
using Steinberg's CUBASE. (No use of Pads or the sequencer)

One issue I'll have is that only 16 sounds are accessible via MIDI. These
are the 16 sounds assigned to the pads for a given pattern. To access
others sounds I need to split up the 49 sounds into different "kits" and
save them to different patterns (00-99 kits). I'll make my "default"
kit = pattern 00.

Anytime I want to use a sound that's not on my default kit I'll have to send a
program change command to switch to the pattern that holds the sound I
want.

I'll also have to have certain sounds duplicated in several patterns if I
don't for example, want to lose my snare drum just because I need to switch
to the pattern with fingerclicks.

Can someone just tell me if they've done this in a simpler way ? I got
the HR16 just yesterday.

Zayed

    You got it...
    
    You can save a bit of time by using the COPY function to move your
    default pattern to a subsequent one, then change the appropriate 
    instrument assignments in the new pattern.
    
    Don't forget to change the length to something other than 8 beats
    or your instrument assignments will evaporate. (Or save a couple
    notes in the pattern.) Also be aware that the HR-16 won't respond
    to patch change messages if it's receiving MIDI clock.
    
    Edd

	I was in a store the other day and I happen to walk by an HR16.  You
know how fingers just seem to have magnetic properties when passing anything
that makes sound...

	Doesn't the HR16 (and HR16B) have touch sensitive pads? I pressed on a 
couple of the pads and, obviously, heard a drum sound.  I pressed lighter and 
heard an identical sound.  I hit harder and heard an identical sound.

	Am I brain dead about thinking the HR16 had touch-sensitive pads?  Or
do they have to be set up special (If so, I'd think it would have been 
advantageous for a store to have it set up)?

	Dan

Sensitivity may be set to certain response curves.  One of the 
curves has FIXED response (i.e. slope = 0).

This is set in the MIDI setup menu, I believe
/doug

    Yeah, there are 11 different velocity settings (changable from the MIDI
    page).  There are FIXED VOLUME 1 thru FIXED VOLUME 8, and LOUD, MEDIUM,
    and SOFT RESPONSE. 

    It's been my experience that every headbanger that comes in the store
    always sets the volume to FIXED 8 to impress their friends... 

    Zayed - you're doing it the way you should.  Make sure you follow Edd's
    advice and change the length or content of the target pattern, or
    you'll lose it. 

    Interesting aside - I can't access the CLICK voice from MIDI, even
    though I can assign it a note number.  Very strange.

-b

Thanks Ed, and Brad . But do I understand this right ?

>    Zayed - you're doing it the way you should.  Make sure you follow Edd's
>    advice and change the length or content of the target pattern, or
>    you'll lose it. 

In other words:

    1- Make sound assignments to first pattern
    2- Ensure there's at least one beat on that pattern (i.e. do something
       to the content)
    3- Save it
    4- Copy it to next pattern
    5- Make changes to voice assignments
    6- Change the beat or add a beat (i.e. change the content of pattern)

    Repeat 3-6 until done

    In other words I must modify something in the pattern besides the sound
    allocation otherwise it thinks  nothing's changed, so nothing to 
    save ??? Wierd ....

    Zayed

    Nope, not quite....
    
    As long as the pattern is NOT an *EMPTY 8 BEATS* you'll be all set.
    
    If the first one was set to 1 beat, every empty pattern you copy it
    to will be 1 beat also.
    
    Edd

GRe: -1 Got it. Thanks Edd.

Zayed

    I've also had luck changing the length of the pattern, without
    introducing any note information into the pattern.

    Rule of thumb - an empty 8-beat pattern will be set to factory default
    voicings. 

-b

Jeez, i know this note string is long, but this is at least the 3rd time
this has been raised (see .360+/-  and .420+/- or thereabouts).

	I just thought I'd write to let y'all know I've joined the ranks of HR16
owners...  I picked it up from Union Music last Thursday night.  It was a 
head-to-head competition between the HR16 and Roland's R5.  Here's how it 
went...

	I made a list of pros and cons, based on what I'd read here in COMMUSIC
and my own particular needs.  It went something like this:

HR16

	PRO:		Has sounds I want like fingersnap, triangle
	PRO:		Less expensive
	CON:		Has had a colored history of unreliability

R5
	PRO:		Has bass sounds (can eliminate need for other SGU?)
	PRO:		Roland usually is more reliable (not meant to open new 
				Roland/Alesis battle, just my observation)
	PRO:		Has more extensive editting capabilities
	CON:		No fingersnaps, triangle
	CON:		More expensive

	I went many times to many stores, asked lotsa questions, tried out
sounds ad nauseum.  Each unit had its advantages and disadvantages.  It finally
came down to this...

	For my purposes, both machines were pretty much equal.  That is, I 
wasn't going to use the 'humanization' feature of the R5 since it was going to
be used as an expander box, run by the MC500.  But the R5 had two advantages 
that I needed to attend to: 1) It appeared to be built better, and 2) It had 
built-in bass sounds.

	As far as workmanship and reliability, I finally considered that 
hopefully most of the hardware problems had been worked out in earlier units.
I was willing to take a chance on the HR16 if, and only if, I could buy one
from a place that would offer a loaner and would be close enough for me to
zip over and get a replacement or loaner.  I found a place - Union Music in 
Worcester.

	The second issue, that of the R5 having bass sounds was interesting to 
me.  I though that it might work to use that box alone for both rhythm and bass
and free up all other SGU's for whatever else.  My bass needs are not all that
demanding and the sounds in the R5 were all I would have wanted (one 'normal'
electric bass, one slap bass and one stand-up bass).  This would have made the
R5 ultra-useful for me as I could take it out 'standalone' with the jazz quartet
I work with, not needing any other SGU's or even the MC500.

	The problem I encountered with the bass sounds in the R5 was that they
are sampled (no big surprise).  But they were set up like the sampled rhythm 
sounds, they must complete their duration - they don't accept note-offs.  The 
problem I'd have would not be so much that they'd have no sustain, but that
I could never get them to cut off earlier than their sample allows.  That did 
it - no R5 for me.

	So, I called Union and had them put one aside for me.  I didn't get much
of a discount, but for something like the HR16, I considered having the 
warranteeing store close by much more important than getting the best price (did
I really say that?).  Other units I wouldn't squawk about it as much, but in my 
sequences, I depend heavily on the drum programming.

	So, that's it folks.  I started using it the other night and figure it 
won't take all that long to come up to speed.  I was corresponding with Edd Cote
for a while as he has a similar setup (HR16 and MC500).  I'm going to follow in
his footsteps as far as how I program drum sequences.  I'm finding it's just too
slow using the MC500's rhythm track (original MC500 software) in step mode (the
only way it can be programmed).  I'll enter the patterns mostly in real time
on the HR16, and when I finish programming a song, I'll dump it down to a 
regular track (not the rhythm track) of the MC500.

	Dan

    99%  chance you won't be disappointed, except for  that stoopid "no
    back step" feature...
    
    This is what we need, more standardization amongst us. Everyone, go out
    and buy an HR-16, MC-500, and at least one TX81Z...
    
    Edd

    Two observations - finger snaps and triangle are available on ROM
    cards (don't know if the R-5 takes R-8 ROM cards), and the R-8 allows
    you to specify whether or not it will listen to NOTE-OFFs (don't
    know if the R-5 does).
    
    I have both an R-8 and an HR-16 and the HR-16 has essentially been
    retired.  The R-8 is just so much more flexible in terms of its
    ability to modify the basic sounds, make all 120 of them available
    simultaneously (no "kits"), accept new sounds via ROM cards, ten
    outputs, etc..  I may set up the HR-16 as a crash cymbal machine,
    layering 4 crash cymbals of slightly different tuning on a single
    MIDI note number, and doing this 4 times (to use up all 16 voices),
    slightly differently each time, routing each layering to a different
    output to give me 4 crash cymbals.
    
    Even an HR-16/HR-16B combination, which costs about as much as an
    R-8, can't touch the R-8.  90 sounds vs. 120, no ROM card extensibility,
    no nuance/decay editing, no feel patch capability, no programmable
    control over voice assignment priority (just that implied by the pads),
    not built like a tank, etc., etc., etc..
    
    len.
       

RE < Note 1064.480 by DRUMS::FEHSKENS >

	Whadya tryin' ta do, Len, make me feel bad about my decision?  8^)

	It seems that the R5 is considerably more limited than the R8.  No cards
(what you get is what you get).  I don't know if the R5 will listen to note-offs
by special parameter setting (the salesman didn't think it could).

	The R8 was not a possibility for me, money-wise.  I think I made the 
right decision to buy the HR over the R5.  Whatever the case, its a heck of a 
lot better than the drums I was using before.

	Dan

    Sorry Dan, but I sure do like my R-8, even if it does exceed the
    ability of my MIDIbrain to fully understand it.
    
    On an absolute level, the HR-16 is also quite a machine.  It's just
    that for a little more than twice the $, the R-8 is a lot more than
    twice as capable.
    
    len.
    

    The cymbal crash and tambourine of the HR16 are (in my opinion)
    far superior to that of the R8.  Unfortunately, that's all I use
    my HR16 for now.
    
    congrats on your choice though!  I've never had any problems with
    mine other than an occasional loss of "memory".
    
    make/save those backup tapes, or, excuse me, is it SYSEX dumps?
    
    "jackin' the house", Bob (in love with the R8 808-handclap for that
    				perfect "house" sound)

    Well, there's no accounting for tastes, but as the owner of about
    a dozen Zildjian crash cymbals (both As and Ks), in my opinion,
    neither the R-8 nor the HR-16 provides a satisfactory crash, and they
    both sound about the same to my ears, though the R-8 provides
    considerably more customization potential.  It's hard for me to
    imagine either of them being called "far superior" to the other.
    
    I have yet to try my experiment to use the HR-16 as a crash cymbal
    machine by layering multiple differently tuned crashes to provide a
    "thicker" crash (something I used to do with my TR-707 and TR-909
    crashes; though each machine could only provide one crash, layering
    the two of them provided a dramatic improvement).
    
    len (back from vacation).

	Well, my HR16 when brain dead.  When setting up a kit, and trying to 
assign a sample to a pad, it would scroll through all the sounds at lightning
speed, not allowing you to select a sample.

	After hearing about the failure rate of HR16's here, I decided to get 
out while the getting was good.  I told the store I bought it from that I didn't
want it back.  Instead, I took the extra stretch (with some money I had just
gotten from selling things and such) and replaced it with an R5.  It was more 
money than I really should have spent, but my work on it in the last few nights
has proven it to be a good decision.  It *feels* so much more solid and 
reliable.

	Dan

    ...had an interesting failure of my HR-16 last night.
    
    I heard a noise coming from the monitors so I started pulling down
    channels on my board to isolate the source. It was discovered that the
    noise came from the 1-LEFT output on my HR.
    
    Pushing *any* button caused a very wierd sound to come over the
    speakers. It sounded very 'squishy', almost like taking a piece of
    rubber and shaking it. (I told ya it was wierd!) Plus, the entire
    unit became microphonic!! I could hear my finger taping the case or
    even rubbing the case lightly. Also, anything panned hard left was
    gone...
    
    I traced the problem back to a wire on the volume slider. I cut and 
    resoldered. While that *seems* to have cured the problem, I'm not
    convinced the problem isn't with the internal connections on the
    pot itself. If so, I'll order one from Alesis. (I'm long out of
    warrantee...)
    
    Edd

    E-gad.... *WHY* do we like this machine????
    
    Edd

    I don't know why, Edd ... but I know that I haven't had the first bit
    of trouble with mine since I stopped using the pads and started driving
    it from my KX76. 

    I think Yerazunis was right way back when ... this thing was not
    designed for heavy-duty usage as a "pound me" box.  Cheezy design.

-b

Well I got bit by the Alesis downers...
I picked up a used micro-enhancer and it's got a problem, the right channel is
down a good 15-20 db...however, the noter who sold it to me called Alesis and
they're gonna honor the warranty for me...it's going in the mail tomorrow..

with  respect to the HR not a bit of trouble to date (nearly two years) ditto 
my Quadraverb, and MiDIverb

dbii

    I haven't had one bit of trouble with my HR-16.  Of course, that
    may be strongly related to the fact that I, uh, don't use it, uh,
    much.  Ran out of board inputs...hmm, maybe what I need is a 1622...
    actually, I think I'll gt a Tascam MM-1 first, then when the 1622
    breaks I won't be up s**t's creek without a paddle while Alesis
    replaces the whole darn thing...
    
    l*n (whos* k*yboard no longer routin*ly g*n*rat*s th* l*tt*r b*tw**n
    d and f in th* alphab*t).
    

    So can we assume all your ragging on Alesis was unfounded???
    
    ;^)
    
    *dd

    re .487
    
    Might it have something to do with The Lemming Theory....... 
    
    		o o
    
    		 D 
    		___
  	     	\_/ Ha I kill me
    

    What ragging on Alesis?  I've always said some people have been
    lucky and others haven't, but when I buy gear I prefer not to enroll
    in a reliability lottery.  The only other piece of Alesis gear I've
    owned (the XT reverb) failed within 6 months of its acquisition,
    and considering the minimal use the HR-16 has gotten, as far as
    I'm concerned the jury is still out, but other folks' experiences
    certainly do not encourage me to make big investments in Alesis
    equipment.  Which is too bad, as they sure do make stuff that's
    functionally neat.
    
    len.
    

	Actually, I find that there are a lot of MIDI bands using the
	HR-16's & they do sound good. The one comment that I've heard
	is that they don't use the internal sequencer, all they do is
	configure a drum kit & drive it from another sequencer & occassionally
	send SYSEX down to re-configure the drum kit. Most would rather
	that it be rack mounted. I don't own one & don't plan to (The
	Roland drums in the MT-32/D-11/U-110 do me just fine).

	I did find that the reliability of my MMT-8 improved dramatically
	once I added some metal tabs to the sides so I could screw it
	onto a piece of plywood on my rack unit, and it no longer gets
	any flexing. 

							Jens

    re .490
    
    Jeez, Len, you must be using some funny kind of keyboard, as mine
    doesn't have a key between the D and the F.  It just goes
    
    	A S D F G H J K L ;
             ^
           note- no key in here!
    
    -----
    
    It does seem that HR16's, when pounded upon by drummers closely
    resembling Neanderthals, don't last too long.  That's why there's
    a MIDI IN socket on the back; chain up a couple of DrumKats or Octopi
    and ignore the little shock-sensor buttons on the front, they were
    never meant to be _used_!
    
    (My Quadraverb has been bopping along just fine ever since I removed
    the loose screw that was rattling around inside the case ;-) )
    
    	-Bill

    re .495 - I said between d and f in the *alphabet*, not on the
    keyboard.  Besides, on most of my keyboards, there are *two* keys
    between D and F: Eb and E!
    
    ;^)
    
    len.
    

    Well, I thought my HR16 finally bought the farm last night, and I just
    *knew* I wasn't gonna fix this one myself...
    
    I went to program a pattern in real-time and started the HR16 looping
    with the click set to 1/4 notes. As soon as I hit RECORD I knew
    something was wrong. Instead of a steady 1/4 note click, I was getting
    1/8 note SWING!!! "Oh great, len will eat this up..." I checked the
    CLICK VALUE parameter. Yep, 1/4. I checked the SWING parameter, 50%
    (no swing). ARRGHH!!! It died!! Oh, woe is me...
    
    I was frantic!! I checked almost eveything and couldn't find anything
    wrong. All my patterns played OK, but I had this incessant 1/8 swing
    for a click!!
    
    Now I feel kinda silly....
    
    
    ....seems the output the click was on was running thru my MVII set to
    a DELAY setting.
    
    Stupid Edd, {slap} jerk, {whack} smarten up, fool. Alesis don't break...
    
    Edd                                         

    Oh yeah, don't bother buying one of those "clap on - clap off" devices
    to turn your studio on and off. As soon as you start the drum machine
    everything dies...
    
    Edd

    	I have a serious emotional problem going through 498 replies (I made
    it through 78).
    
    	If this has been answered before, please point me to it.
    
    	If one were using the HR-16 as a sound source, and one had 43 pads
    or triggers, can one access more than the 16 pad sounds?  Or can you
    only have sixteen, no matter what?  If playing with the sequencer, can
    it access different sounds than you?
    
    Mike

    
    Well, actually you can have at most 16 sounds at the same time- and you
    have to do a sysex to change which sound you want "loaded" if you want
    to go past that number.  You do have the pallette of 43 to choose from,
    though, if you're willing to sysex.
    
    [well, you have 16 sounds but some of them act weird (i.e. the crash 
    voice(s)]
    
    	-Bill
    

    	Are the pad assignments located in "patches?"  If so (assuming you
    had an Octapad), could you configure all the different sounds you want
    accross different patches, then when you hit a pad with "Patch X, Note
    Y" it would call up a patch change, play that sound, then "Patch W,
    Note Z" would change it back (whatever)?  Does that make sense?  
    
    Mike

    It's like this: the HR16 has 49 "sounds" in it.  Only 16 of those
    sounds may be accessed at any one time.  The unit also has 16 notes of
    polyphony (supposedly), but that's another story.
    
    Sounds are assigned to pads within patterns.  Since the HR has 16 pads,
    up to 16 distinct sounds may be assigned at a time. Each of these pads
    responds to a MIDI note value (as specified in the #7 MIDI page). 
    Since you can only assign MIDI notes to *pads* (and not to specific
    samples/sounds), you're stuck with 16.
    
    There is a 17th note assigned to the "click", but I've never been able
    to trigger this using a controller.
    
    In other words, regardless of the number of pads (or keys or whatever)
    your controller, you can play only 16 sounds at a time.  To access the
    other sounds, you have to switch patterns ... but you still will only
    be able to trigger the HR using the same 16 pads you used in the first
    place.
    
    The Roland R8 (and perhaps R5) have a different sound -> MIDI note
    mapping scheme, and do not have this limitation.
    
+b

    	Ok, so the HR doesn't really have a patch, it has a pattern where
    all 16 sounds that you select are (corresponding to the HR pads).  In
    other words, you would set it up like you were going to just play the
    HR, then enable MIDI, and play the pattern you selected (redundant?). 
    Is there anyway you can trigger something to switch patterns on the
    fly, so you have pattern 1 (a kit) then <...whack...> you have pattern
    2 (a latin perc section)?
    
    	From what you've told me, looks like you wouldn't use the Octapad's
    four patches much, because if you can't change the sounds, why
    rearrange where they are!?  (right?)
    
    Mike

    Yep, each pattern can have it's own "kit", sounds assigned to pads.
    A simple program change will bounce you from one kit to the next.
    I do it all the time...
    
    Edd

    In fact, that's the only way to really use the HR effectively. 
    Basically, when using an external controller, you may as well think of
    it as an extension of the HR16.  Using an Octapad?  Well, that's the
    equivalent of using *8* of the 16 pads on the HR's front panel.
    
    Example: say you want to set up a regular kit and a latin kit.  You'd
    use one pattern (say #1) for the regular kit and a 2nd pattern for the
    latin kit.  Assign drums something as follows:
    
    
    	Pattern 1:  +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+
                    |10" | |10" | |10" | |14" | |    | |    | |    | |RIDE|
                    |TOM | |TOM | |TOM | |TOM | |RIDE| |CRSH| |CRSH| |CYM |
                    |+5  | |0   | |-7  | | -5 | |    | |+1  | |-2  | |BELL|
                    +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+
                    Tom1   Tom2   Tom3   Tom4   Ride   Crash  Perc1  Perc2
    	            +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+
                    |24" | |AMB | |CLS | |MID | |OPEN| |    | |    | |    |
                    |KICK| |WOOD| |HI  | |HI  | |HI  | |etc | |etc | |etc |
                    |    | |SNR | | HAT| | HAT| | HAT| |    | |    | |    |
                    +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+
    		    Kick   Snare  ClsHat MidHat OpnHat Claps  Perc3  Perc4
    
    	Pattern 2:  +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+
                    |HI  | |HI  | |LO  | |LO  | |    | |    | |AGO | |AGO |
                    |CNGA| |CNGA| |CNGA| |CNGA| |    | |CRSH| |BELL| |BELL|
                    |+2  | |-3  | |+3  | |-1  | |    | |    | |+5  | |+2  |
                    +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+
        PADS-->     Tom1   Tom2   Tom3   Tom4   Ride   Crash  Perc1  Perc2
    	            +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+
                    |    | |    | |    | |    | |    | |    | |AGO | |AGO |
                    |    | |    | |CLS | |    | |CRA | |    | |-2  | |-6  |
                    |    | |    | |HAT | |    | | SH | |    | |    | |    |
                    +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+
    	PADS-->	    Kick   Snare  ClsHat MidHat OpnHat Claps  Perc3  Perc4
    
    Each pad is assigned to a MIDI note number.  Assume that your HR pads
    are assigned to MIDI notes 20-28 (upper) and 30-38 (lower).  If a pad
    on the Octapad plays note 28, you'll play either RIDE CYMBAL BELL or
    AGOGO BELL tuned up by 2, depending on the pattern you've selected.
    
    Make sense?
    
+b

    	Plain as Jane.
    
    	But how do you change the pattern in real time (without stopping,
    pressing a couple buttons, and then resuming)?
    
    Mike

    ...with a sequencer or some other device that will send the program
    change command at the proper time.
    
    Edd

    Patterns can be changed from a controller, sequencer etc. only if the
    HR-16 is being used as a sound source, if the patterns are stored in
    the HR-16 or rather if HR-16 is actually playing the pattern from its
    sequencer then, it can't done.
    
    Changes patterns on the HR-16 is different than changing patches on
    synth/sound, you have to set the parameter for it respond to pattern
    changes, I don't remember what it is called but the manual explains it
    (now is that right??? hmmm).
    
    Anyway that's the basic idea. I know I'll be corrected if I am
    wrong.
    
    Errol
    
    

    	Ok.  So just hit the Oct. patch change footswitch, hit a pad, and
    that's it.  I hope.  Gonna get one...
    
    	I hope I can find one for about $300 (less, please...).
    
    Mike

    re: .509
    
    That's true as far as you took it...
    
    The HR-16 won't respond to an externally generated program change at
    the same time it's taking clock from an external source. You can 
    arrange the patterns into a song and externally clock the HR tho.
    As the patterns change withing the song the kits change right along
    with them....
    
    Edd

    	Low on budget, the only other thing ahead in the future in a small
    sound module for tones (like the FB01 I've been asking about).  So if
    anything, the HR would clock songs, so it would (right) be able to
    handle program changes (no ext. timer).  Our band plays a lot of fill
    songs (what I mean is, we embellish and kind of take whatever time we
    want on solos, or synth fills (like Jacob's Ladder etc.)) so I probably
    wouldn't use the sequencer much.
    
    Mike

RE: Errol, Edd, patch changes & clock source
    
    Actually, that's not *quite* true.  When using TAPE SYNC IN as clock
    source, the HR will *indeed* respond to patch change commands.  I just
    got done sequencing a tune that does that very thing - sends patch
    change commands to HR16 while it's syncing to tape (and in pattern play
    mode).
    
    From skimming this topic, it looks like it's not supposed to do this(?).
    
+b

    ...which leads me to a second question.
    
    I think my MC-500 generates tape sync. (Not being into multi-tracking
    I'm not sure.) Assuming it does, could I connect tape OUT from the
    MC500 to tape IN on the HR16 and use that as an alternate clock source?
    
    It might elliminate that stoopid step-time bug...
    
    Edd

    I think that you'd probably run into a problem.  I doubt that they
    would track accurately - besides, the HR likely spits code at a
    different resolution than the MC.  
    
    And you'd give up MTC and/or SPP if that's important to you (it is to
    me).  But I'm speculating ...
    
+b

    Brad,
    Thanks for that info, I can really use/need that feature. I'll be
    trying that sometime in the near future.
    
    Errol

    Can HR-16 sounds be pitch bended in real time?  Like, if I set gate
    time real high (note on but no note off for a while) and then bent the
    note, would it work?
    
    Mike

    The HR16 will not respond to any MIDI RTCs.  Only controller it
    recongizes is "patch change".  Sorry.
    
+b

    The Roland R5 (and R8), on the other hand, responds quite nicely to
    real time controllers.
    
    	Dan
    

    Anybody got a used R-5 or R-8 for $275?
    
    Thought not.
    
    Mike  :)

    No, but if you offered me $600 you can have my (mint condition) R-8,
    so's I can get an R-8M (don't need the R-8's sequencer, want the R-8M's
    three ROM card slots...)
    
    len.
     

    	But if you buy the R5, you won't have to send it back to the
    factory for repairs periodically, and eventually end up buying an R5
    out of frustration.
    
    	Dan
    

    Bull$#!+!!!! Buy an HR-16 and develope a killer set of soldering
    chops!!
    
    Wimps, all of ya....
    
    ;^)
    
    Edd

    Hmm, sounds like a great opportunity for some entrepreneur -
    "ruggedized" versions of Alesis products...
    
    (len who has a bizarre fantasy of an HR-16 and R-8 colliding...)
    

    Doesn't Alesis make a MIL spec HR-16?
    
    dp
    

    Here's a way to program more convincing snare drum rolls on your HR16.
    (It'll probably work on the Roland wannabees also....)
    
    One problem I've noticed with programmed rolls is that they sound like
    a bunch of rapid single hits. This seems to elliminate alot/some of
    that.
    
    What I do is set up a second pad with the same voice/mix/tune
    parameters as the snare pad. If I'm doing a 16th note roll I'll
    program a lot of low velocity snare hits on this second pad using
    32nd note quantization. Then I'll program the snare pad normally,
    paying adequate attention to weak arm/strong arm abberations.
    
    Then use the OFFSET control to move the second snare pad forward in
    time (negative offsets). At 120-130 BPM an offset of -4 seems cool.
    Adjust volume of the second pad to taste.
    
    Edd

    
    
    Howdy Folks,
    
    
       Has anyone had trouble with the HR16 or MMT8 tape sync when writing
    the sync while syncing to an external device. 
      IE:
    		ATARI/NOTATOR >>>>>>>> HR16 >>>>>>>>> TAPE
                               MIDI           FSK
    
    It appears that in this situation, the alesis devices try to produce
    two sync signals on top of each other. The only way to get around this
    is to set the HR16/MMT8 to sync internal with auto start enabled but
    this is useless if you program tempo changes.
    
    If you listen to the audio generated by the sync out port, you can
    hear a dramatic difference in the tone of the sync pulse when syncing
    from midi. 
    
    BC
    
    
    

    I've documented in here (somewhere) some bizarreness exhibited by the
    HR-16 when externally sync'd. While not the same as what you're seeing,
    I'm not surprised at your problem.
    
    I called Alesis about it. They said "Oh, wow man..."
    
    Edd

    Does anyone know offhand whether the outputs on the HR-16 can or can
    NOT be used as headphone jacks as well as line level outputs?
    
    I have one at home but I don't remember and I need a quick answer.

    
    Yes, you can- BUT
    
    I recall that they're mono.  Which means that you'll only hear one
    channel.
    
    (of course, I could be wrong...)
    
    	-Bill
    

    Agreed with -.1, also be aware the levels are VERY low.
    
    Pan everything to one side if you need to...
    
    Edd

    > Also be aware that the levels are VERY low
    
    Rats - some of you might have guessed that the motivation for my asking
    was whether or not I could feed a click to the drummer by having him
    plug his phones directly into the HR.

    Absolutely not. Even whacking the HR's pads all but obscures the
    sounds in the cans.
    
    Edd

    Well unless you plan on deafening your drummer, I believe that with
    a good close cup or whatever they are  called headphones he should
    be fine. I have used headphones with my HR-16 and while I do agreed
    that it is  not as loud as the TR707, I think they could suffice.
    
    Also I think, I not sure that the left channel has stereo output.
    Give it a try!
    
    Errol

Gee, db, how about just wiring the outputs directly to the drummer? Mebbe stick
the leads right under his belt? Who knows, mebbe reflex action would keep him
*right* on the beat! Kinda like a primitive A-to-D converter, eh? Hey, put down
that drumstick! Wait a minute, I was kidding! Aaaaaaaahhhhh!

(Yes, I'm tired.)

Bob

    Seems to me the obvious solution is to getcha one o' them cheapie
    battery-powered preamps to stick between the HR16 and the drummer's
    earphones.  A poor man's way might be to use a portable Walkman-ish 
    cassette recorder if you already have one.
    
    Steve 

    
        I've setup a HR16 for a drummer as a click and ended up building
    a headphone amp to boost the levels. All of the outputs are mono.
    
    SM
    

    Folks,
    
    Last weekend we had a "glitch" in the Pub's power supply which somehow
    COMPLETELY WIPED OUT the memory in the HR-16! Luckily our MMT-8
    survived so our sequenced material was OK. However we still use basic
    patterns/songs in the HR-16 for several numbers so you can imagine the
    panic. Anyhow we survived.
    
    My question is to those circuit experts out there. Has anyone else
    found anthing to protect the HR-16 from this problem? I am willing to
    make a few modifications to the circuit if it will help. Unfortunately
    there is no local Alesis support in Ireland hence I would have to send
    it to England for official attention and there would be all sorts of
    customs hold-ups etc......and as someone else has commented in this
    notesfile we cannot afford to be without it for a week or more!
    
    Any suggestions welcome.
    
    ...Sean

>                    <<< Note 1064.538 by MACNAS::SALLISON >>>
>                        -< Power glitch WIPES memory! >-

	This sounds quite familar. If you don't already have surge suppression
	and power line filters on your MIDI/Synth gear, you need to look
	into it.

	When you say the memory is gone, can you re-set it (on the MMT-8
	there is a power up sequence that zeros' everything out - I'm
	sure that there is one for the HR-16)? If you can re-set it,
	can you re-load a core dump from the HR-16 (either from cassettes
	or MIDI Sysex dumps)? If the memory is only scrambled, then this
	should allow you to recover. If the internal memory is really
	bad, the chips aren't expensive, but might be a challenge to
	to locate outside of a big city.

	When my MMT-8 has had it's memory scrambled, it usally shows
	Arabic or Oriental looking characters (bit patterns) on the
	display. Sending the next SYSEX memory dump corrects it. If
	you have a memory dump of the HR-16, have you tried to re-load
	it?

							Jens

    I'm  finally starting to get really annoyed by a quirk with my HR16 (a 
    quirk  that  I've  actually  been  tolerating for some time): the data 
    entry  slider  is not terribly stable. For example: When I'm trying to 
    change  something  from  the MIDI Util menu, it won't reliably hold an 
    option  on  the  display  long  enough  for me to set it correctly; it 
    'wobbles' back and forth between adjacent options on the slider menu.

    Also,  I  can't get the "LEVEL" setting to go any farther than "75" or 
    so when I'm in the MIX selection.

    Of course all this points to a problem with the slider pot, but I was
    wondering  
        1) if anyone else has had this problem before and if so,  
        2) how did they fix it, or what should I beware of.

    Hopefully I can profit from someone else's experience before I open up
    my unit and start slathering solder and contact cleaner everywhere...).

    Any helpful hints? 

    /doug

    I've never had the problem but, if it was me, I'd slide that pot 
    back and forth along its' full travel a couple dozens of times to 
    see if it made any difference.
    
    THEN I'd hot it with the contact cleaner and/or Cramolin...
    
    Edd

    Judicious application of contact cleaner followed by frantic sliding of
    the pot for a minute or so cleaned the problem right up.   The display
    is rock-steady now and the level settings go all the way to "99".

    psyched!
    /doug