Conference 7.286::sports_90

    Might give these a go if I had more time. Unfortunately I just have
    time to answer the questions on scoring the play:
    
    
    
    6 to 4 to 3.
    
    	--dan'l
    
    

    
    1.	ball is on the 20.
    
    2.	no first downs.
    
    3.	TD pass
    
    4.	Ramsey gets charged, he has to complete it before the other
    	guy is responsible.
    
    5.	Sack?
    
    6.	Nelson gets an intercept, Weishun gets the TD.
    
    7.	
    
    8.	Rushing yards lost.
    
    9.	
    
    10.	Yes.
    
    11.	Penalty assessed from the point of the infraction. (5yds downfield)
    
    
    Wild guesses by Lee.

1.  Team A has the ball in its own territory.  Ball is between the 20 and the
21.  What yard line is the ball on?
A.	Trick question.

2.  Team has the ball at the 40 and scores a touchdown.  Is this a first down?
How about if they have the ball first and goal at the 9 and scores?  Is this a
first down?
A.	Trick question, mebee they scored on 2nd down.

3.  In last year's Patriots - Jets game at Foxboro, Cedric Jones caught a long
pass, fumbled at the 1 and recovered the ball in the end zone for a TD.  Is 
this a touchdown pass, or a fumble recovery for a touchdown?
A.	Who threw the pass?

4.  In the 1987 Patriots game at Denver, there was a botched handoff between
Tom Ramsey and Irving Fryar.  It looked like Irving dropped the ball.  Who
gets charged with the fumble and why?
A.	Fryar, 'cause quarterbacks wear dresses.

5.  In the Patriots game this past Sunday, Brian Hansen was back to punt, the
snap was off to the side, and Brian ended up losing 18 yards.  Give the proper
scoring on the play.
A.	Patriots make 2 or 3 phone calls to out of work punters.

6.  In the Patriots - Steelers game in 1983, Steve Nelson intercepted a pass.
As he was being tackled, he lateralled to Clayton Weishuhn and Weishuhn took it
the rest of the way for a touchdown.  Give the proper scoring on the play.
A.	Nelson was to old and winded to finish off the play.

7.  Give the proper scoring on the play when a player fumbles and the fumble is:

	A.  Recovered by a  teammate beyond the line of scrimmage
		Fumble
	B.  Recovered by a  teammate behind the line of scrimmage
		Fumble
	C.  Recovered by an opponent beyond the line of scrimmage
		Fumble
	D.  Recovered by an opponent behind the line of scrimmage
		Fumble

8.  When a passer fumbles while attempting to pass, how is the yardage
determined?
A.	Trick question.

9.  Give the scoring on a lateral where the ball is lateralled behind the
line of scrimmage, beyond the line of scrimmage or on a kickoff.
A.	Trick question.

10.  A player plays on the first play of the game, the player is hurt and 
never plays again in the game, and the play is nullified by a penalty.  Is
the player credited with an appearance?
A.	Did he show his face?

11.  On a running play, there is offensive holding downfield.  The hold took
place 5 yards downfield on a 10 yard run.  Give the scoring.
A.	Patriots make 2 or 3 phone calls to out of work offensive lineman.


				/Don

	P.S. Did I win?

    >P.S. Did I win?

    Trick question, /Don.
    
    Lee

    Comments made in the RAIDERS note prompt me to ask...
    
         How are NFL QB ratings calculated?  

    I don't have the passer rating book in front of me, but here goes.
    
    The rating is a function of 4 statistical items:  Completion
    percentage, yards per passing attempt, touchdown percentage and
    interception percentage.  There is a ranking of the possible outcomes
    in each category with a numerical grade attached to each.  Then the
    four numerical grades are added together to come up with a final
    figure.  These final figures, when added together, should roughly
    correspond with a 100-point scale, just like for taking a test in
    school.  Average grades in each category add up to a 66.7.  The best
    passers in the league grade out in the nineties.  Anything over 100 is
    outstanding.  Joe Montana's season last year was the best season ever
    under this rating system.
    
    John

    1. 21yd line
    2. Neither is a 1st down
    3. Fumble recovery
    4. Ramsey. Last "possessor" of football
    5. -18yd running play
    6. Int Nelson. Inty Td return for Weisuhn.
    7. ?
    8. ?
    9. ?
    10. ?
    11. Penalty from spot of the foul
    
    Bull~

1.  20 yard line.

2.  yes.  no.

3. fumble recovery for a TD.

4. Ramsey, he was the last guy to have possesion of the ball.

5. Rushing attemp by hansen  18 yard loss.

6. Interception to Nelson. TD to Weishun. 

7.  Give the proper scoring on the play when a player fumbles and the fumble is:

	A.  Fumble returned to the spot of the fumble no advancement allowed.
            Player fumbling charged with fumble and player recovering given 
            credit for the recovery.
	B.  Fumble spotted at point of recovery. Player fumbling charge,
            player recovering credited.
	C.  Fumble spotted at point of recovery. same charge and recovery as
            above.
	D.  Fumble spotted at point of recovery. same as above.

8.  At the point of recovery unless, it constitutes a forward gain by the
    offense in which case it would be brought back to the point of the
    fumble.

9.  lost here...

10. No appearence because the play was wiped out.

11. tack the penality on at the end of the run and replay the down.
John
    

I'll take a stab at it.

1.  Team A has the ball in its own territory.  Ball is between the 20 and the
21.  What yard line is the ball on?

   21

2.  Team has the ball at the 40 and scores a touchdown.  Is this a first down?
How about if they have the ball first and goal at the 9 and scores?  Is this a
first down?

   no. no.

3.  In last year's Patriots - Jets game at Foxboro, Cedric Jones caught a long
pass, fumbled at the 1 and recovered the ball in the end zone for a TD.  Is 
this a touchdown pass, or a fumble recovery for a touchdown?

   pass, with yardage good to the one
   fumble recovery for the TD

4.  In the 1987 Patriots game at Denver, there was a botched handoff between
Tom Ramsey and Irving Fryar.  It looked like Irving dropped the ball.  Who
gets charged with the fumble and why?
   Fryar. Cause it looked like he dropped the ball (also QB's wear
   dresses)

5.  In the Patriots game this past Sunday, Brian Hansen was back to punt, the
snap was off to the side, and Brian ended up losing 18 yards.  Give the proper
scoring on the play.

   No score. Loss of yardage to special teams

6.  In the Patriots - Steelers game in 1983, Steve Nelson intercepted a pass.
As he was being tackled, he lateralled to Clayton Weishuhn and Weishuhn took it
the rest of the way for a touchdown.  Give the proper scoring on the play.

   Interception Steve Nelson
   Weishun gets the TD

7.  Give the proper scoring on the play when a player fumbles and the fumble is:

	A.  Recovered by a  teammate beyond the line of scrimmage
   		Fumble, gain on player's run yardage
	B.  Recovered by a  teammate behind the line of scrimmage
		fumble, loss on player's run yardage
	C.  Recovered by an opponent beyond the line of scrimmage
   		fumble
	D.  Recovered by an opponent behind the line of scrimmage
   		fumble

8.  When a passer fumbles while attempting to pass, how is the yardage
determined?

   same as 7 (above)

9.  Give the scoring on a lateral where the ball is lateralled behind the
line of scrimmage, beyond the line of scrimmage or on a kickoff.

   How come you keep saying scoring?
   I'd say the person who has the ball at the completion of the play gets
   the yardage

10.  A player plays on the first play of the game, the player is hurt and 
never plays again in the game, and the play is nullified by a penalty.  Is
the player credited with an appearance?

   Yes

11.  On a running play, there is offensive holding downfield.  The hold took
place 5 yards downfield on a 10 yard run.  Give the scoring.

   10 yard penalty from the spot of the infraction.    

    NFL quarterback rating system:
    
       5 * (2.5 + pct_comp + 5*avg_yd_gained + 4*pct_tds - 5*pct_int) / 6
    
    
                            30 <=   pct_comp    <= 77.5
    
                             3 <= avg_yd_gained <= 12.5
    
                                     pct_tds    <= 11.9
    
                                     pct_int    <=  9.5
    
    All percentages calculated with respect to number of pass attempts...
    
    Want a quick BASIC program to calculate it??  Here you go:
    
010 input "Completions  ", comp
015 if comp = 0 then 190
020 input "Attempts     ", att
030 input "Interceptions", inter
040 input "TD Passes    ", tds
050 input "Yds passing  ", yds
060 pct_comp = comp / att * 100
070 if pct_comp < 30 then pct_comp = 30
080 if pct_comp > 77.5 then pct_comp = 77.5
090 avg_gain = yds / att
100 if avg_gain < 3 then avg_gain = 3
110 if avg_gain > 12.5 then avg_gain = 12.5
120 pct_tds = tds / att * 100
130 if pct_tds > 11.9 then pct_tds = 11.9
140 pct_int = inter / att * 100
150 if pct_int > 9.5 then pct_int = 9.5
160 rating = 5 * (2.5 + pct_comp + 5*avg_gain + 4*pct_tds - 5*pct_int) / 6
170 print
180 print "QB Rating = ", rating
181 print
185 goto 10
190 end
    
    -- dg

    My title is Official Scorer (just like in baseball) and any decision
    made of this type is a scoring decision.
    
    John

1.  Team A has the ball in its own territory.  Ball is between the 20 and the
21.  What yard line is the ball on?

	The 21.  The rule reads if a ball is completely between 2 yard lines 
	and touching neither, the ball is on the yard line that is further 
	ahead.  There are a couple of exceptions to this.  If a team has the
	ball between the opponent's 1 yard line and the goal line, the ball is
	spotted at the 1.  If a team has the ball between the opponents 10 and
	11, but can get a first down without scoring a TD, the ball is at the
	11.  If the ball is for example between the 39 and the 40, which would
	spot the ball at the 40, but the team with the ball hasn't gotten a
	first down (in other words, it's second and inches), the ball is spot-
	ted statistically at the 39.  The person who advanced the ball is 
	actually cheated out of a yard because there must always be at least
	1 yard to go for a first down.

	For our purposes, there is no such thing as a half yard line or inches
	to go.

2.  Team has the ball at the 40 and scores a touchdown.  Is this a first down?
How about if they have the ball first and goal at the 9 and scores?  Is this a
first down?

	In pro football, all touchdowns scored by the offense on either runs
	or passes are first downs, regardless of how far there was to go for
	a first down.  In high school and college football, the second situation
	in the questions would not be a first down.

3.  In last year's Patriots - Jets game at Foxboro, Cedric Jones caught a long
pass, fumbled at the 1 and recovered the ball in the end zone for a TD.  Is 
this a touchdown pass, or a fumble recovery for a touchdown?

	It's a touchdown pass.  When a player recovers his own fumble, all
	yardage gained on the play goes to the category initiating the play.
	This got me into an argument with the Jets PR department, who thought
	it should have been a fumble recovery for a touchdown.

4.  In the 1987 Patriots game at Denver, there was a botched handoff between
Tom Ramsey and Irving Fryar.  It looked like Irving dropped the ball.  Who
gets charged with the fumble and why?

	Ramsey.  Botched handoffs and mishandled snaps from center that result
	in lost yardage are called aborted plays.  The responsibility for a
	mishandled snap goes to the person who should have received the snap
	and the responsibility for a bad handoff or bad lateral goes to the
	person handing the ball off or tossing the bad lateral.  Ramsey gets
	the fumble, although in the eyes of many, Fryar caused the fumble.

5.  In the Patriots game this past Sunday, Brian Hansen was back to punt, the
snap was off to the side, and Brian ended up losing 18 yards.  Give the proper
scoring on the play.

	Again, an aborted play.  Hansen gets a fumble, a rush for no yards, an
	own fumble recovery and 18 yards of lost fumble yardage and *NOT* 18
	yards lost rushing.  My counterpart in Cincinnati scored this one 
	wrong.

6.  In the Patriots - Steelers game in 1983, Steve Nelson intercepted a pass.
As he was being tackled, he lateralled to Clayton Weishuhn and Weishuhn took it
the rest of the way for a touchdown.  Give the proper scoring on the play.

	Nelson gets the interception and return yardage to the spot of the
	lateral.  Weishuhn gets a touchdown and interception yards from the
	spot of the lateral to the goal line but no interception.

7.  Give the proper scoring on the play when a player fumbles and the fumble is:

	A.  Recovered by a  teammate beyond the line of scrimmage

		Player gets credit for a rush or a pass to either the
		spot of the recovery or the spot of the fumble whichever
		is less.  Player gets a fumble recovery and any yards 
		gained beyond the fumble recovery go as fumble yards.  Any
		yards in between the fumble and the recovery are loose ball
		yards.

	B.  Recovered by a  teammate behind the line of scrimmage

		The fumbler gets credit for all yards lost to either the spot
		of the recovery or the spot of the fumble, whichever is less.

	C.  Recovered by an opponent beyond the line of scrimmage

		The fumbler gets credit for all yards gained to either the spot
		of the recovery or the spot of the fumble, whichever is less.

	D.  Recovered by an opponent behind the line of scrimmage

		The fumbler gets credit for all yards lost to either the spot
		of the recovery or the spot of the fumble, whichever is less.

8.  When a passer fumbles while attempting to pass, how is the yardage
determined?

	It is a sack to the spot of the fumble recovery

9.  Give the scoring on a lateral where the ball is lateralled behind the
line of scrimmage, beyond the line of scrimmage or on a kickoff.

	If behind the line of scrimmage, the player receiving the ball gets
	the rush and all the rushing yards, plus or minus.  If beyond the
	line of scrimmage, the person who brought the ball over the line of
	scrimmage gets the rush to the spot of the lateral and then the 
	player ending up with the ball gets the rest of the yards, but no
	rushing attempt (if the player who ends up with the ball loses yards
	from the spot of the lateral then he doesn't even figure in the play,
	the initial handler of the ball gets the yards to the spot where the
	play ended).  If on a kickoff, the person who initially handled the
	ball gets credit for the return only if he advanced the ball more 
	than 10 yards.

10.  A player plays on the first play of the game, the player is hurt and 
never plays again in the game, and the play is nullified by a penalty.  Is
the player credited with an appearance?

	Yes.  Even though the play was nullified the injured player gets
	credit for the appearance and for starting the game

11.  On a running play, there is offensive holding downfield.  The hold took
place 5 yards downfield on a 10 yard run.  Give the scoring.

	Rush goes to the spot of the penalty and then the penalty is assessed.
	This sort of play happens most often on kick returns.

John
    

    We had our toughest call of the season yesterday on Brent Williams' TD
    and the TV called it wrong.  Garin Veris crunched Dave Krieg, the ball
    came loose, Brent Williams picked it off in midair and went 45 yds for
    a TD.  I called it a sack for Veris for an 8 yd loss, a forced fumble
    by Veris, a fumble recovery for Williams and a 45 yd fumble return.  In
    my judgment (backed up by the crew and confirmed on TV), Krieg wasn't
    in the act of throwing at the time so it couldn't have been an
    interception.  TV called it an interception.  The only way we could
    have told for sure would have been if the ball had hit the ground, then
    referee Tom Dooley would have had to call incomplete pass or fumble and
    the play would have certainly been reviewed.
    
    The Seattle PR people didn't even raise a stink so it looks good,
    though the Seattle offensive line coach will probably fight for it to
    be called an interception - that way, it's one less sack given up for
    them.  I won't know if there's a change until later in the week after
    the league reviews the films.
    
    John

    	I was visiting some friends over in 224 and even from up there
    it looked like a fumble.  I'm surprised anyone thought it was an
    interception.
    
    				/Don

      Yeah, but from 222 Williams looked like Bo goin' up that tunnel!
    Then I woke up.
                                        Denny