Conference 7.286::sports_90

    After slitting to open up the season in New Yuck, losing 4 of six
    at home in an icy Three Rivers Stadium, the Pirates found a broom in
    their closet and have used it 3 times on this road trip, sweeping the
    Cubs, Giants and Padres. They beat the Cards before the Cubs Series and
    lost one to them after the cubs series.  
    
    Barry Bonds went 9-12 with three homers in San Diego.  Bobby Bonilla
    is continuing to pound the ball, leading the league with 7 homers and
    21 RBI. 
    
    They are off today and tomorrow open a 2 game series with the Dodgers
    to close out the 13 game road trip.  They are currently 10-1 on the
    road trip.
    
    JaKe
    

    JaKe,
    
    	How is Jeff King doing?  He played his high school ball here
    	in Colorado Springs but we don't get much info on him.
    
    Claybone

    The Pirates are tearing up.  I hope it lasts!  They're finally showing
    the potential they had going into last year before they were put under
    by many, many, many injuries.
    
    The best move the Bucs made this year was moving Bonilla back to the
    outfield.  That takes a lot more pressure off him.  he never was a
    third baseman.  This move enables Jeff King and Wally Backman to handle
    third.  Backman covers the hot corner most, but King is a solid member
    of the team.  He's doing quite well for a young'n.  I don't see him
    traveling north of Buffalo any time in the near future unless he gets
    hurt.
    
    The only unfortunate thing is that R.J. Reynolds doesn't get to play as
    much as he used to.  I think Reynolds could start for a lot of MLB clubs,
    but Pittsburgh is deep in the outfield (pun intended).
    
    And the best thing about this whole team, as another fan related to me,
    is that VanSlyke hasn't even started hitting yet.  If he does and
    Bonilla and Bonds continue their slugging, watch out NL East.
    
    	--dan'l

    JaKe or anyone else,
    
    can you post the weekend home game schedule for the next few months? 
    I'd like to take a trip up to see the Bucs.  This winning streak is
    going to certainly help attendance when the boys of summer come home.
    
    Also, any idea what games are going to be on national TV (CBS and
    ESPN)?
    
    Thanks in advance.
    
    	--dan'l
    

Any Pirate fans able to give any background on Bob Patterson?

Thanks
daryll

>Any Pirate fans able to give any background on Bob Patterson?

Journeyman...  31 years old... 

    Claybone
    
    King is hitting low .200's, playing well defensively, though.  He
    hasn't played up to his potential in the Major's yet.  He plays third
    mainly against left handed pitching and Backman has been playing
    against right-handers.  
    
    Barry Bonds was named NL player of the week.  He hit .588 with 3 homers
    and 8 or 9 rbi.
    
    Van Slyke has been hitting better recently and has his average up to
    ~.285 with 4 homers and aobut 10-12 rbi.
    
    Re a few back, I'll try to get my hands on a schedule today or tomorrow
    and post the weekend home games in here ASAP.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    Thanks JaKe.  It seems that he should have had enough time to reach
    his *potential*.  
    
    Your Pirates are looking strong (like my Reds!).  Here's to hoping
    they meet in the NLCS..8-)
    
    Claybone  

    re: .-1
    
    Ah, yes...Pirates-Reds...shades of 1970-72, 1975, and 1979.  As I
    recall, the Reds are up 3-2 in NLCS vs. the Pirates;  this would be a
    good year for the Bucs to tie the score.
    
    

	1970: Reds sweep Pirates 3-0
	1972: Reds beat Pirates 3-2
	1975: Reds sweep Pirates 3-0
	1979: Pirates sweep Reds 3-0

	1971: Pirates beat Giants 3-1

    Anybody remember the Johnny Bench homer in the '72 series?  I remember
    it was *BIG*, but can't recall the exact circumstances.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

    I recall (dimmly) the Johnny Bench home run that helped the Reds
    clinch a pennant over the Pirates.
    
    But wasn't there also a late-inning, perhaps game-ending,
    Pittsburgh wild pitch that allowed a pennant-winning run to
    score for the Reds, too ??? 
    
    Was it Dave Guisti allowing Cesar Geronimo or Bobby Tolan to
    score ???
    
    Bob Hunt

    re.12
    
    I thought it was Bob Moose who threw the wild pitch!!!
    
    JaKe
    

    I doubt it was Tolan.  Pretty sure he was all done by '72.  (Ruptured
    achilles.)  I could be wrong though...
    
    For that matter, I can't even remeber a wild pitch!  (But I guarantee
    Bench hit a big homer that I think tied it.)
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

    re: .10
    
    oops...I forgot the Giants were in the 1971 NLCS;  and I even went to
    one of those games.
    
    

    re.14
    
    Yeah, there was a wild pitch which allowed the winning run to score in
    the final game of the LCS.  I remember that 'cause just after the game
    the local news came on and the sportscaster got himself fired by his
    opening line which was,
    and I quote, word for word,
    
    "What a Shitty way to lose!!"
    
    JaKe
    

    It was Bob Moose who threw the wild pitch in 1972;  Bench hit a homer
    earlier in the inning.  I think it was Geronimo who scored, but I don't
    remember for sure.

dan'l
    
    Here's the Pirates weekend HOME schedule for this year.  Only ESPN game
    I know of is May 13 at 8:05.  Other than that, I don't know if and when
    they're on National TV, but if they stay as hot as they've been,
    they'll be on the tube alot this year.
    
    
  Date             Opponent          time


May 4              Atlanta           7:35
May 5		     " "             7:05
May 6		     " "             1:35

May 12		   Houston 	     7:35
May 13              "  "             7:05
may 14              "  "             8:05

May 25             San Fran.         7:35
May 26              "   "            7:05
may 27              "   "            1:35

June 1             montreal          7:35
June 2              "   "            7:05
June 3              "   "            1:35

June 15            New York          7:35
June 16             "   "            7:05
June 17             "   "            1:35

July 13            San Diego         7:35
july 14             "   "            7:05
July 15             "   "            1:15

July 20            L.A. Dodgers      7:35
July 21             "     "          7:05
july 22             "     "          1:35

July 27            Philadelphia      7:35
july 28               "    "         7:05
July 29               "    "         1:35

Aug 10             ST. Louis         7:35
Aug 11              "     "          7:05
Aug 12              "     "          1:35

Aug 24             Cincinati         7:35
Aug 25               "    "          7:05
Aug 26               "    "          1:35

Sept 7             Montreal          7:35
Sept 8               "   "           7:05
Sept 9               "   "           1:35

Sept 21            St. Louis         7:35
Sept 22            "     "           7:05
Sept 23            "     "           1:35

All times are PM.

    JaKe
    

    Jake,
    
    	I think they are on ESPN tonight at 8:30 (CXO time) against the 
    	Dodgers in LA.
    
    Claybone

    Thanks a ton, JaKe!
    
    I'll letcha know when I'm comin' home.  I'll meetcha dahntahn ta see da
    Pahrts and buy ya an arn.
    
    Gotta go reddup my cube now.  All these gumbans have pahled up.
    
    Seeyunzguyz.
    
    	--dan'l

    dan'l
    Lemme kno when yure cummin in to the city.
    
    Pirates 6-game winning streak snapped last night by a 5 hitter by Tim
    Belcher and the Dodgers, 4-1.
    
    JaKe
    

    Cal Daniels and Eddie Mureey homered for L.A. 

    Bucs dropped 2nd straight to Dodgers last night, 6-2.
    Fernando Valunzuelaskiopskowitz(sp?) pitched an 8 hit complete game and
    drove in a ru with a single.  Willie radolph was 4-4 with 3 doubles and
    scored 3 runs.  Cal Daniels was 3-4 for the dodgers also.
    For the Pirates, Jeff king was 3-4 and scored both Pirate runs.  Jose
    Lind and Andy Van Slyke drove in the Pirate runs and John Smiley took
    the loss and is now 2-3.
    
    The Pirates ended the 13 game road trip a very respectable 10-3.
    The Dodgers pulled out the broom though and swept the Pirates.
    
    Road Trip
    
    St. Louis    1-0
    Chicago      3-0
    St Louis     0-1
    San Francisco 3-0
    San Diego    3-0
    Los Angeles  0-2
    
    total       10-3
    
    The Bucs play next tomorrow night at Three Rivers Vs the Braves.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    
    
    
    JaKe
    

    Pittsburgh beat San Diego last night for their 9th win in 11 games. 
    The Pirates are followed closely by Philly and Montreal.  Meanwhile,
    St. Louis is in the cellar having lost five in a row.  What's wrong
    with this picture?
    
    Only 9600+ at Three Rivers last night.  They should at least be drawing
    15,000.  Any Pittsburgh media remarks on attendance, JaKe?  Or was last
    nights game on the local cable channel?
    
    	--dan'l

    Last night's game was on KBL, the local sports channel.
    
    Barry Bonds hit a home run to lead off the game for the Pirates.
    Pirates scored 4 runs in the first and coasted the rest of the way.
    
    Bob walk is now 2-3, Ted Power got the save, #2 for him.
    
    Pirate starting pitching:
    Neal Heaton   5-0
    Doug Drabek   5-1
    John Smiley   2-3
    Bob Walk      2-3
    Walt Terrell  0-1
    
    Haven't seen anything in the papers yet or on the tube about
    attendance.
    
    
    Pirates have won 13 of their last 16.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    Pirates released Doug Bair to make room for Bob Kipper who was
    activated today.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    Oh no!  Not "Homerun Kipper!"
    
    You know when a pitcher earns that nickname, it ain't so good.  Last
    year during the only game I saw at Three Rivers, the Pirates had a one
    run lead going into the 9th against SF.  Kipper comes in.  
    
    "Oh no! Not Homerun Kipper!" my buddy shouted.
    
    The Kip instantly served up two homeruns and the Bucs lost.  Certainly
    made my seven hour drive home worthwhile.  Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
    
    	--dan'l

    >>Oh no!  Not "Homerun Kipper!"

    
    Yep, you got it, Bob "HR" Kipper.
    
    Personally, I don't know how the guy ever made it out of the minors.
    Maybe the should call him "Egg" kipper, seeing as he gets shelled
    during most of his appearances.
    
    JaKe
    
    

    The Pirates continued their winning ways over the Padres last night
    10-2.  It was the Pirates 4th straight win and 5th straight this season
    against the Padres.
    
    The Padres scored 2 in the first but the Pirates tied it in their half
    of the first, then added 2 more in the second, and 3 in the third to
    put it out of reach.  
    
    Backman 3-5, 2 rbi
    VanSlyke 3-5, 3rbi, 1 home run
    Bonds 2-5, 2 rbi
    Lavalliere 3-4, 3 rbi, 1 home run
    
    Pirates middle infield of Bell and Lind had 4 double plays last night.
    Walt Terrell got his first win as a Pirate and is 1-1 in 5 starts but
    the Pirates have won 4 of his starts.
    
    Pirates outfield of Bonds, Bonilla, and VanSlyke have hit 17 home runs
    and driven in 55 rbi in 26 games.
    
    Bonds lead-off home run on Monday was the 20th time in his career he
    has led off a game with a homer.
    
    Tonight and tomorrow night the Pirates play the Reds at 3 Rivers.
    It is the first time the Reds and Bucs have met during the regular
    season as division leaders since 1975.
    
    JaKe
    
    

    Pirates won 5th in a row over the Reds last night, 6-2.
    John Smiley evened his record at 3-3.
    
    Pirates have won 11 of their last 13 and 15 of their last 18.
    
    last night
    Jay Bell 2-4 1 run scored
    Andy VanSlyke 3-4 1 run scored 1 RBI
    Barry Bonds 2-4 1 RBI
    Mike Lavalliere 2-4 1 run scored
    Jose Lind 2-4 1 rbi
    John Smiley 1-3 1 rbi
    
    To date:
    Wally Backman   .367
    Andy VanSlyke   .326 5 HR's 17rbi
    Barry Bonds     .317  "      "
    
    JaKe
    

    Pirates swept the Astros this weekend to win eight of their last nine
    and 14 in their last 17.
    
    Last night Jose Lind had two RBIs.
    
    Without a doubt, the Pirates have the best outfielders in MLB this
    year.  VanSlyke should be the starting centerfielder in the All Star
    Game.
    
    R.J. Reynolds (my favorite Buc) played in place of Bonilla and had a
    great throw home to nail a runner.
    
    Speaking of throws home, if anyone saw the game last night on ESPN, you
    probably saw perhaps THE worst home plate call in recent history.  With
    two out and two on, the Astros got a hit to left field.  They send
    Gullickson (pitcher) around third toward home.  He was DOA on a throw
    from Barry Bonds.  However, the ball shorthops LaValliere and bounces
    out of his glove right at Gullickson.  Gullickson hits the ball with
    his hands, but to everyone it was one of those reflex reactions--you
    know, like when someone pretends their gonna kick you in the filberts
    and you just automatically cover.  Well, the umpire called interference
    on Gullickson and called him out at home.  I don't even think the
    Pirates would have argued had he been called safe, that's how bad the
    call was.
    
    The Bucs start a series in Cinci tonight.  It's gonna be a tough three
    games the way the Reds are playing.  Man, just like the 70's.  How
    great.
    
    Go Bucs!
    
    	--dan'l
    

Yes, I couldn't believe the call, it was a most heinous call, a
most bogus call....

Actually, I thought the ball bounced off Gullickson's stomach, but
one could see from the replay that the ball bounced up so quickly
that no way could any touching of the ball have been intentional.

Another stiff call by another stiff official...what else is new...

Chainsaw

    I agree, it was a bad call, but Gullickson shoulda slud.
    
    Dan

           <<< OURGNG::SYS$SYSDEVICE:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS.NOTE;1 >>>
                 -< OURGNG::SPORTS - Digital's daily tabloid >-
================================================================================
Note 226.34             Pgh. Pirates NL East Champs 1990                34 of 37
SHALOT::MEDVID "Words are very unnecessary..."       33 lines  14-MAY-1990 11:30
                      -< Pirates Sweep Astors, Reds Next >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>    Without a doubt, the Pirates have the best outfielders in MLB this
>    year.
 
    I think the A's would have an argument with that.
    
    
    Bruce   
    

    True.  Let me clarify before we get into a LDUC.  I was thinking in
    terms of three factors:
    
    	- Defensive strength
    	- Offensive strength
    	- Depth
    
    I think they've got the A's beat on that last count and thus they get
    my biased vote.  They dumped Billy Hatcher and Glenn Wilson last year
    because there was no room for them.  Both are starting for other teams
    now.   
    
    And you could consider youth to be a fourth factor, but that's neither
    here nor there at this point.  But I bring it up to emphasize that
    Bonds, VanSlyke, and Bonilla (barring free agency or a bizarre trade)
    will be around for several more years.
    
    	--dan'l
    

    re the last few:
    
    With Dave Henderson currently hitting in the .220s, I'd have to give
    the Pirates OF the edge for now.  That would change though if Hendu
    were to bounce back to his 1988 form...
    
    
    py
                    

    Pirates lost to the Reds last night 5-3.
    Pretty boring game after the 2nd inning.  Pirates got 3 in the first
    and nothing after that, Reds got one in the first and 4 in the second
    and were blanked after then.
    
    Pirates maintain 4 1/2 game lead in the NL East as the NL West beat the
    snot out of the East last night.
    
    JaKe
    

    Pirates dropped their second straight to the Reds last night.  I only
    saw/heard highlights, but it seems like the Bucs lost a game they
    should have won by letting the Reds tie it in the bottom of the 9th.
    
    Saw a clip of Leyland in the dugout after Benzinger hit the game
    winner.  He was one POed dude.  Couldn't tell if he was just angry at
    the loss or at the team.  JaKe?
    
    Drabek (6-1) is on the mound tonight, so maybe the Pittsburgh can
    salvage one.  
    
    The Reds are looking great!  Caps off to them.  And they're doing all
    this without Eric Davis.  Wow!
    
    	--dan'l

    Bucs lost their third straight last ight to Atlanta, 6-1.  Neal Heaton
    (6-1) suffered his first loss in his last 12 decisions, and his first
    loss of the year.
    
    JaKe
    

    Aw Sh!t, it's starting again.
    
    John Smiley broke his pitching hand, slammed it in a taxi door, Friday
    night and is on the 21 day DL, and isn't expected to pitch for at least
    6 weeks.
    
    Bob "Round Tripper" Kipper started yesterday in Atlanta and couldn't
    hold the 4-0 lead the Bucs supplied him with in the first inning.
    After 1 inning it was 4-4.  After 2 innings it was 10-4 Atlanta.
    
    Kipper lasted 1-1/3 innings, only gave up 4 hits, 2 of which were
    homers, 7 runs and walked 3.  Randy "Krunch" Kramer relieved Kipper in
    the second and lasted 2-2/3 innings, giving up 8 hits and 4 runs.
    For the Braves, Ron Gant and Dale Murphy both hit 2 HR's yesterday.
    
    I call Kramer "Krunch" 'cause that's what most batters do with his
    pitches.  The Pirates are 1-5 on their current road trip and have been
    slumping lately.
    
    On the up side, Bobby Bonilla had 2 HR's yesterday and a grand slam
    Fri. night and now ha 11 hr's and , I think, 35 rbi. Barry Bonds also 
    homered yesterday.
    
    
    
    
    
    JaKe
    

    Bucs lost in the 11th last night. 3-2, on a homer.
    
    Bucs have lost 3 in a row and are now at 23-15.
    
    HHHHHHHEEEEEEELLLLLLPPPPPPPPP
    
    JaKe
    

    Bucs beat the Astros last night 8-4.  Barry Bonds hit his first career
    grand slam.  Neal Heaton wins his 7th game(7-1).
    
    Hopefully, the Bucs are getting back on the winning track.  They
    departed Pittsburgh with a 4-1/2 game lead and are now in front by
    1-1/2 games.
    
    JaKe
    

    Pirates have rebounded from their slump.  They've won 3 in a row and
    now own a 2-1/2 game lead in the NL East.  They had a big win
    yesterday, went into the last of the ninth down 5-1 and scored 5 to win
    6-5.  They are on a 3 game win streak also.
    
    
    
    JaKe
    
    

    Bucs beat the Dodgers yesterday 5-3.  Barry Bonds 1 HR 3 rbi.
    Pirates outfielders all batting over .300.  Bucs had 6 starters
    yesterday that have season averages over .300.  The team has now won 5
    in a row, including he sweep over the Dodgers, and are 4 games ahead in
    the NL East.
    
    JaKe
    

    Thanks to 1-800-BUY-BUCS, I got great seats to the Pirates vs Mets at
    Three Rivers on the 16th.  (Well they're great seats considering I was
    thinking I'd be sitting near the lights after Pittsburgh swept the
    Dodgers.  I'm in reserved, 3rd base side.)
    
    Anyway, JaKe, I think I owe you an Iron City.  You gonna be at the game
    by any chance?  By the way, I got tickets for Sunday's game too, but
    might not be able to use them.  Interested?
    
    	--dan'l

    Unfortunately, I'm not gonna be around that weekend.
    
    As for the Bucs, they pulled the broom out of the closet and used it on
    the cubs this week.  Won last night 6-1 in a rain shortened game.
    Bucs scored 5 in the first, Maddux lasted only 2/3 of an inning.
    Andy VanSlyke hit a 3 run HR in the first.  This was the second night
    in a row that the Cub's starter failed to make it to the 2nd inning.
    
    Bucs are 33-19.
    
    JaKe
    

    Bucs beat the Mets last night 5-4.  Heaton deserved to get the win but
    only came away with a no-decision.  he left after the 5th with a 4-1
    lead and the relief couldn't hold sh!t.
    
    JaKe
    

    Pirates swept the Cards earlier this week.  Were scheduled to play the
    mutts last night but got rained out.  Game is to be made up in Sept
    When the Mutts return.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    Pirates lost two of three to the Mets this weekend.  I got to see
    Saturday's and Sunday's games while I was home.  (Thanks JaKe!)
    Boy was it hot.
    
    Pirates were one hit away from breaking yesterday's game open with no
    outs and bases loaded.  But VanSlyke hit into a DP.  Never was much of
    a clutch hitter and they ended up loosing 4-3.
    
    Saturday's game was great for the 46,000 Bucco fans at Three Rivers. 
    Sid Bream hit a homer that was a couple feet away from the middle deck. 
    Just like every other NL park, everytime Strawberry was up the crowd
    chanted "Daaaaaaaaaaaaaryl, Daaaaaaaaaaaaryl."  After the game, the
    crowd was still bellowing it as they exited the stadium only it was
    "Daaaaaaaaaaaryl, aaaaaaaaaaaaaasshole, Daaaaaaaaaaaaaryl,
    aaaaaaaaaaasshole."
    
    Pittsburgh has good fans, but Three Rivers has got to be one of the
    worst places to see a baseball game.  Unless you are behind home plate
    or down one of the baselines, you don't have a view of the whole field
    and you're forced to watch about 25% of the plays on Diamond vision.
    Forbes field must have been wonderful...
    
    	--dan'l
    

    Bucs lost last night in 10 innings to the Philthydelfia Fillies, 2-1.
    
    The wheels have started to come real loose on the pirates bandwagon.
    They've lost 6 of their last 10, but still have a 2-1/2 game lead in
    the NL East.  They have lost 3 pitchers to injuries, John Smiley's hand
    allegedly lost an argument with a cab door, Ted Power whose injury I
    can't remember, and now Bob Walk is on the DL with a groin injury.
    
    HELP
    
    
    JaKe
    

    
    >    allegedly lost an argument with a cab door, Ted Power whose injury I

    Forget the dislocated shoulders, the strained knee ligaments, and
    the groin pulls.  The new chic, "in" injury this year, especially
    among pitchers, is the cab door injury.  First Nolan, and now Smiley.
    
    What does this mean to the Red Sox?  Disaster.  Their new attitude
    is now "Twenty-five guys, twenty-five hand injuries."
    
    Dickster
    
    

    NOW ON SALE.   FIRST TIME EVER OFFERED.  
    
    THE How-To guide for pitchers for injuring your hand in cab doors.
    
    Pitched too many innings lately???Feeling a little tired or sore and
    the manager won't give you a rest???Thinking to yourself, if I could
    only have a week or two I could get my arm strength back and blow away
    these bums I'm pitching to???
    
    Now for the first time ever offered get the official guide to cab door
    injuries of the hand, co-written by John Smiley and Nolan Ryan.
    
    With just one good slam you too can get from 2 days to one months rest
    with pay, in the middle of the season, and spend some time with your
    kids while they are on THEIR summer vacation.  This pamphlet may sacve
    your marriage.
    
    Also learn the art of convincing your manager that it WAS a cab door
    you slammed your hand in when in real life, it was some morons face
    that broke that bone in your hand when you slammed HIM after he called
    you a useless SLOF.
    
    Order now and recieve free of charge the Bob Walk guide to groin
    injuries.
    
    to order call 1-800-SLAMMED
    
    JaKe
    

    dan'l
    
    Actually it was Bill Landrum and Bob Kipper who loaded the bases and
    gave up 2 runs in the 9th.  Belinda came in and got all three batters
    he faced out.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    Reading box scores on a Monday morning never is easy...

    Just heard on the radio that the Pirates picked up pitcher Jay Tibbs
    from Baltimore for "future considerations".  Anyone with info, please
    post.
    

According to the Globe over the weekend, Tibbs was released.  Wonder what kind
of "future considerations" the Pirates would have to give for a released
pitcher?

j.

    If he was put on waivers and someone tried to claim him, they can
    pull him off.  Must have been what happened...

    Bucs beat the Phillies last night 5-0.  It was the first time the Bucs
    have shut anyone out this year. 
    
    Rick Reed pitched a 4-hit complete game and retired 21 of the last 22
    he faced.  He allowed 2 hits in the 2nd inning, 1 hit in the second and
    then retired 20 straight until giving up a little dink hit in the ninth
    before striking out John Kruk to end the game.  
    
    The Bucs maintianed their 1/2 game lead over the expos.
    
    Barry Bonds, who was hit sorta hard in the SI article last week made
    some noise of his own this weekend in Montreal going 8-10 with a homer
    and a few RBI. 
    
    
    
    JaKe
    

    SportsChannel reported this morning that John Smiley may be reactivated
    to start Sunday's game against San Francisco.
    
    
    py

    From a Charlotte Observer sports column:
    
    Former New York Yankees pitcher Ralph Terry, who is famous for having
    yielded Bill Mazeroski's home run that won the 1960 World Series for
    Pittsburgh, is playing the PGA Seniors Tour.  When he was invited to
    the press room after shooting a 66 recently, Terry sat down and
    immediately said, "It was a hanging slider."
    

    Bucs took 2 of 3 from the Giants this weekend.  Yesterday was the
    return of John Smiley after he lost an altercation with a cab door.
    He lasted about 4-1/3 and gave up 4 runs.
    
    Barry Bonds hit HR 14 and has 55 rbi.
    
    Bucs remain in first place barely ahead of the New Yuck Mutts.
    
    JaKe
    

    The Bucs beat the Padres last night 4-3.  I don't have any details
    'cause they went 14 innings on the west coast and my mommy wouldn't let
    me stay up that late.
    
    I do know, however, that the Bucs were down 3-0 in the 4th when I went
    to dreamland.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    JaKe, I'm disappointed in you.  At 11:30 PM, you could find me sitting in
    my car in my garage in uptown Charlotte listening to KDKA.  The Bucs
    had two outs in the 6th and were loosing 3-0 when Redus got a hit. 
    Then Jay Bell doubled him home.  Then Andy VanSlyke hit his first homer
    off a lefty this year!  Bonilla followed with another hit, but Bonds
    then flew out.  
    
    I went to bed content with the tie score and hoping they would pull out
    the win.  Glad to know they did.  Also glad I didn't try to listen to
    the whole game.  My battery would have been dead!
    
    	--dan'l

    Well --dan'l
    
    I'm a diehard Pirate fan but last night the little lady winked and
    nudged and said "let's turn in a little early tonite!!" and I have the
    ability to listen to the sports in the morning, if you get my drift.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    
    You're not a real fan, Jake, if your team doesn't come first. ;^)
    
    Dickster
    

    Hey, I didn't say I was in the front seat of the car, now did I?  ;-)
    
    	--dan'l

    re last 2
    
    well it did have to do with scoring, so it was sporting.
    
    also, the definition of self control is when you can take a date to the
    drive in and remember the plot of the movie.(xxx's not included)
    
    JaKe
    

      Beat me to the punch, `saw

   Mike JN

    The Bucs beat the Dodgers yesterday 7-2 and at the break are 49-32, and
    are in first place in the NL East by 1/2 game ahead of the New York
    Mets.  They finished a 29 game span where 23 of the 29 games were on
    the road 16-13.
    
    Barry Bonds is hitting .341 at the break with 62 RBI.  his career high
    prior to this season was 59 rbi in 1988.
    
    
    
    JaKe
    
    

    After having won 10 of 12, the Bucs have lost 3 straight at home, which
    is their longest home losing streak this season.  The Mutts are now a
    mear 1 game behind.  The Bucs play the Giants tonite at 3 rivers and
    hopefully they'll break out of the losing schtick.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    
    Pirates + Choke - Reds & BoSox devided by  A's (zero) = N.Y. Mets World Champions
    
* Figure that one out!

    Unless the Pirates end up in 4th place or lower in the NL east, I don't
    think anything they do the rest of this year can be considered a
    "choke."  They've got terrific offense and solid defense, but not a
    real great pitching staff---an integral part of any type of
    championship season.  Yet for some reason, this rag tag bull pen has
    risen to the occasion and that's why the Pirates are on top.
    
    If the pitching staff wakes up and says, "Hey, we're really not that
    good," then it's over.  Just as long as the Mets don't win it, I'll be
    happy.
    
    By the way, the Bucs bombed the Giants last night and the Mets lost
    which puts Pittsburgh back up by two games.  It's gonna be a dog fight
    to the finish unless one of them goes on a big losing streak.  And
    don't count out Montreal!
    
    	--dan'l

    The Bucs bounced back from Monday's shutout and beat the Expos last
    night 5-3.  Barry Bonds had 3 hits, 3 stolen bases, and 1 rbi, raising
    his total for the season to 71.  He also is still batting near .500
    with runners in scoring position.
    
    Doug Drabek(12-4) won his 4th straight decision.
    Sid Bream hit his ninth home run and even stole a base.
    Stan Belinda got his 5th save, pitching the ninth striking out 2 of the
    3 he faced.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    Bucs lost a heartbreaker last night.   They fought from a 3-0 deficit
    to take the lead 4-3.  The Expos scored in the bottom of the ninth to
    send it into extra inning.  The Bucs scored 3 in the top of the tenth
    to make it 7-4.  Stan Belinda then proceeded to lose the game.  With 2
    on and 1 out and the score 7-5, Belinda gave up a gopher ball and the
    Bucs went home 8-7 losers.
    
    
    Phillies series at home starting tonite.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    Bucs pounded last night, 12-4 at the hands of the Phillies.
    Heaton lasted 2/3 inning and gave up 5 runs before Jim Leylad lifted
    him.  Leyland said the whole problem with the Bucs last night was:
    
    "The pitching just completely stunk"
    
    The Bucs are now in a tie with the Mets for first.  Both teams have
    identical records at, I think, 56-39.
    
    JaKe
    

    The Bucs have a great ball club no doubt about that. I'm a Mets fan but
    those Bucs are tough. 
    
    	This is going to the wire..
    
    Mets or Bucs ----->>  Who will be??
    
    JR..

    The Bucs got back into a first place tie with the Mets over the
    weekend.  The highlight of the weekend was on Friday night when Doug
    Drabek won his 6th straight game and is now 14-4, and pitched 8-2/3
    innings of no hit ball with only one walk and gave up a single on a 3-2
    pitch with 2 gone in the ninth.
    
    JaKe
    

    Yeah, I watched Friday's game in its entirety.  I really thought Drabek
    was going to do it -- who'd figure Sil Campusano (hitting .188 going
    into Friday's action) would be the one to break it up...
    
    
    py

    The Mets lost last night to the Cardinals, 5-1 and that coupled with
    the Pirates taking a doubleheader from the Phillies puts the Bucs up
    1-1/2 games in the NL East.  In game one, the Bucs won 10-1 with rookie
    pitcher Randy Tomlin making his first appearance in the major leagues,
    straight from AA ball in harrisburg, pitched a five hitter.  He had a
    two hit shutout until 2 out in the ninth when he allowed 3 singles
    before getting the final out.
    
    In the nightcap, the Bucs won 4-3 in 10 innings with Mike Lavalliere
    getting a three run homer and Sid Bream driving in the winning run in
    the 10th.
    
    JaKe
    

    Did anone see the fans  running on the  field last night with the
    tarp on??  This one  Security guy couldnt catch this one fan..
    
    we kept putting moves on him.. deke left, deke right.. it was a
    
    riot..
    
    
    dinz
    

    I saw the highlights of the fans taking the field.  Only in Philly. 
    Classic.  Did you see the girl in the red shirt do the tarp slide.  In
    slow mo she was showin' some titles.
    
    But did you see the footage of when they did catch the guy with the
    moves?  Boy did the security guards manhandle him to the ground.  It
    was very unprofessional.  I'm sure the Philly Phans were booing. 
    
    The tarp sliders were better than the Philly Fanatic, arguably the best
    mascot in pro sports (Chicken excluded).
    
    Jake, did you say LaValier?  Unbelievable!  What a team.
    
    	--dan'l
    
    

    Aynone know who the Mets are playing tonite?????????
    
    JaKe
    

    re: .90
    
    	At home against the Phillies.  Viola vs. ???
    
    						 glen j.

    mets lose 9-0..
    

    re .89
    
    BOb, you have to give the Gorillia in Phoneix his due - those slams off
    the trampoline are fan-tastic ....

               <<< ACESMK::VAXVMS:[NOTES$LIBRARY]NYMETS.NOTE;2 >>>
                           -< This is METS Country >-
================================================================================
Note 207.578       1990 Regular Season Topic - Lets go Mets!!         578 of 591
VAXWRK::NEEDLE "Money talks. Mine says "Good-Bye!"" 210 lines   9-AUG-1990 09:17
                     -< Stats for Pirates minor leagues. >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alou's stats are for Buffalo (American Association AAA) and Greene's stats are
for Salem (Carolina league A).  The '*' indicates that Greene is a left-handed
hitter.

                                          Avg  Ab   R   H 2B 3B Hr Rbi  Sb
 Alou, Moises, OF             .......... .300 217  35  65  4  5  5  26   7
*Greene, Willie, SS           .......... .242  33   5   8  0  1  3   8   0

                     W  L   G GS CG GF SH SV   IP    H   R  ER HR  BB  SO
Scott Ruskin         2  2  45  0  0  8  0  2  48.0  52  23  18  3  28  34

And FYI, here are all the Pirates minor league stats as of August 1 (the '#'
indicates switch-hitter and the '*' indicates left-handed):

AMERICAN ASSOC.(AAA)
By Howe Sports Data International
Through games of Wed Aug 01, 1990

INDIVIDUAL BATTING

 Burdick, Kevin, 2B           .......... .280 311  46  87 20  2  3  33   2
#Cangelosi, John, OF          .......... .318  44  11  14  0  1  0   1   6
*Carter, Steve, OF            .......... .307 316  41  97 13 11  5  37   8
 Chamberlain, Wes, OF         .......... .238 320  30  76 19  0  3  39   9
 Garcia, Carlos, SS           .......... .270 111  15  30  6  0  4  12   4
 Little, Scott, OF            .......... .226 106  17  24  1  2  1  10   8
#Merced, Orlando, 1B          .......... .284 271  43  77  8  5  9  45   9
 Moreno, Armando, 2B          .......... .269 227  29  61 15  1  7  22   2
 Prince, Tom, C               .......... .240 217  32  52 12  0  6  35   2
 Richardson, Jeff, SS         .......... .223 121  10  27  3  0  0  11   0
*Ryal, Mark, 1B               .......... .353 300  39 106 30  2  9  40   2
 Sheaffer, Danny, C           .......... .267  90  15  24  6  0  0  12   2
 Shields, Tommy, SS           .......... .256 317  38  81 18  2  1  27  12

INDIVIDUAL PITCHING

                                       BUFFALO
                                       W  L    Era  G  Sv   Ip    H  Bb  So
 Bair, Doug               ............ 3  2   3.35 21   3  43.0  40  16  25
 Huismann, Mark           ............ 4  2   2.45 35   2  55.0  50   9  25
 Kemp, Hugh               ............ 7  7   3.39 20   0 119.1 121  22  70
 Kramer, Randy            ............ 4  1   3.12 12   0  60.2  47  28  44
 Mason, Roger             ............ 1  4   3.14 17   1  43.0  47  15  22
 Palacios, Vicente        ............ 6  7   4.57 21   0 126.0 136  47  98
*Reuss, Jerry             ............ 1  2   3.32  7   1  19.0  24   5  10
 Ross, Mark               ............ 5  7   1.81 37  10  59.2  56   9  31
 Taylor, Dorn             ............12  3   2.63 22   0 150.2 116  40  94
 York, Mike               ............ 8  4   4.63 22   0 128.1 134  60 109

EASTERN LG. (AAA)
By Howe Sports Data International
Through games of Wed Aug 01, 1990

INDIVIDUAL BATTING

                                       HARRISBURG
                                          Avg  Ab   R   H 2B 3B Hr Rbi  Sb
 Banister, Jeff, 1B           .......... .266 259  29  69  9  0  8  43   2
 Barczi, Scott, C             .......... .211 228  27  48  5  1  0  15   1
#Cook, Jeff, OF               .......... .217  23   2   5  0  0  0   1   1
 Crowley, Terry, 2B           .......... .263 354  44  93 13  2  2  37   6
#Edge, Greg, SS               .......... .220  82   9  18  3  0  0   5   1
 Harris, Robert, OF           .......... .233 193  23  45  5  0  2  15  10
 Huyler, Mike, SS             .......... .269  67   8  18  4  0  0   3   1
 Jewett, Trent, C             .......... .122  41   3   5  0  0  0   2   0
#Longmire, Tony, OF           .......... .297  91   9  27  6  0  1  13   5
*Osborne, Jeffrey, DH         .......... .242 227  26  55 10  3  1  28   0
#Peguero, Julio, OF           .......... .283 361  37 102 13  9  1  23   7
 Perez, Julio, 2B             .......... .219 155  18  34  4  1  1  19   3
 Tubbs, Greg, OF              .......... .292  89  20  26  2  3  1   8   5
 Vizcaino, Junior, 1B         .......... .260 196  16  51  7  1  0  16   4
 Wehner, John, 3B             .......... .280 389  53 109 20  1  4  53  18
#Yacopino, Ed, OF             .......... .267 258  26  69 14  2  3  36   4

INDIVIDUAL PITCHING

                                       HARRISBURG
                                       W  L    Era  G  Sv   Ip    H  Bb  So
 Adams, Steve             ............ 7  3   2.81 20   2 105.2 105  26  30
 Ausanio, Joe             ............ 3  1   1.77 37  12  45.2  29  13  41
*Garcia, Miguel           ............ 8 10   3.94 20   0 125.2 134  38  47
*Hancock, Lee             ............ 7  6   2.88 20   0 131.1 111  56  67
 Minor, Blas              ............ 5  2   1.77 31   5  56.0  41  20  60
 Neely, Jeff              ............ 2  3   1.99 28   7  45.1  36  12  39
*Tomlin, Randy            ............ 9  6   2.28 19   0 126.1 101  34  92
 Tracy, Jim               ............10  6   3.33 19   1 108.0 103  28  83
 Webb, Ben                ............ 5 10   3.65 20   0 101.0  90  47  49

NEW YORK-PENN LG. (AAA)
By Howe Sports Data International
Through games of Wed Aug 01, 1990

INDIVIDUAL BATTING

                                       WELLAND
                                          Avg  Ab   R   H 2B 3B Hr Rbi  Sb
 Brown, Anthony, OF           .......... .221 122  22  27  5  2  0  12   3
*Brown, Michael, 1B           .......... .309 110  13  34  5  0  1  18   4
*Bullett, Scott, OF           .......... .311 135  26  42  5  2  3  13  14
 Campusano, Genaro, DH        .......... .212  66   8  14  3  0  3   7   0
 Curtis, John, OF             .......... .268  41  11  11  2  2  1   4   5
 Edge, Tim, C                 .......... .234  77   2  18  0  0  1   9   2
#Feliz, Janiero, 2B           .......... .159  69   9  11  2  2  0   4   5
 Grisham, Wes, OF             .......... .277 119  15  33  6  0  1  18   3
 Hanel, Marcus, C             .......... .132  68   3   9  1  0  0   6   1
 Johnson, Ben, SS             .......... .253  83   6  21  4  0  1  12   0
 Martin, Jon, 1B              .......... .192  52   7  10  2  0  1   5   5
 Martinez, Ramon, SS          .......... .227  44   4  10  0  1  0   5   2
 Polewski, Steve, 2B          .......... .226  31   4   7  1  0  0   0   1
 Ronca, Joe, OF               .......... .139  72   9  10  0  0  0   1   8
*Schulte, John, 2B            .......... .202 109  13  22  4  0  0   3   1
 Young, Kevin, 3B             .......... .222 153  21  34 11  2  1  19   3

INDIVIDUAL PITCHING

                                       WELLAND
                                       W  L    Era  G  Sv   Ip    H  Bb  So
 Carlson, Lynn            ............ 1  0   4.81  9   0  24.1  17  29  25
*Cooke, Stephen           ............ 1  2   3.68  7   0  29.1  22  10  29
 Futrell, Mark            ............ 2  4   1.95 12   2  27.2  30  11  22
 Lyle, Jeff               ............ 3  2   3.94 19   2  29.2  22  10  25
 Miller, Kurt             ............ 2  0   1.64  8   0  33.0  18  24  30
 Pacheco, Alex            ............ 0  4   5.19  8   0  34.2  29  25  40
 Redmond, Andre           ............ 0  1   5.82  8   0  34.0  28  47  29
*Robertson, Richard       ............ 1  3   3.41 10   0  34.1  28  31  45
 Roeder, Steve            ............ 1  2   5.73 12   0  22.0  23  28  18
*Shouse, Brian            ............ 3  2   5.93 11   1  27.1  35   4  29
 Simpson, Shelton         ............ 1  1   1.99 11   1  31.2  24  17  28
 Tellers, David           ............ 3  2   1.63 11   1  27.2  19   3  38

CAROLINA LG. (AAA)
By Howe Sports Data International
Through games of Wed Aug 01, 1990

INDIVIDUAL BATTING

                                       SALEM
                                          Avg  Ab   R   H 2B 3B Hr Rbi  Sb
 Antigua, Felix, C            .......... .161  31   2   5  0  0  0   2   0
*Brewington, Mike, OF         .......... .237  76  11  18  4  1  2  12   0
 Estep, Chris, OF             .......... .208 289  40  60 10  2 14  39   7
*Greene, Willie, SS           .......... .242  33   5   8  0  1  3   8   0
*Hines, Tim, DH               .......... .267 292  31  78 13  8  7  42   2
 Manahan, Austin, 3B          .......... .258  31   3   8  0  0  1   3   1
 Mcnabb, Glen, 2B             .......... .267 146  21  39  5  0  0  13   3
*Merejo, Domingo, OF          .......... .281 196  24  55  8  4  9  47   9
 Pennye, Darwin, OF           .......... .278 363  44 101 23  3  8  41  14
#Romero, Armando, C           .......... .277 339  46  94 22  2 12  67   0
 Schreiber, Bruce, 3B         .......... .298 429  58 128 20  4  2  32   5
 Shelton, Ben, 1B             .......... .203 286  39  58  8  2 10  33   0
#Sims, Greg, OF               .......... .249 362  69  90 13  4  4  36  25
*Trusky, Ken, OF              .......... .268  41   6  11  2  1  0   1   0
 Williams, Flavio, 2B         .......... .227  88  14  20  3  1  2   7   0

INDIVIDUAL PITCHING

                                       WINSTON-SALEM
                                          Avg  Ab   R   H 2B 3B Hr Rbi  Sb
 Adames, Juan, 2B             .......... .118  34   3   4  0  1  0   1   1
 Bell, Lenny, 3B              .......... .250  64   6  16  6  1  0   8   0
#Blair, Paul, 2B              .......... .266 316  38  84  8  3  0  23   7
 Craig, Dale, C               .......... .181 116  14  21  1  0  2   6   1
*Jensen, John, OF             .......... .255 310  48  79 15  3 10  57   3
*Paulino, Elvin, 1B           .......... .267 393  69 105 23  2 14  62   5
 Ramsey, Fernando, OF         .......... .250 324  40  81  9  3  4  38  32
 Simonds, Dan, C              .......... .114  35   2   4  0  0  0   1   0
 Smith, Tracy, SS             .......... .253  95  12  24  3  1  1  16   4
 Welch, Doug, DH              .......... .299 241  38  72 15  1  7  49   0
 White, Billy, SS             .......... .259 378  67  98  9  2  4  45  20
*Williams, Eddie, OF          .......... .237 308  53  73  9  5  5  26  11

GULF COAST LG. (R)
By Howe Sports Data International
Through games of Wed Aug 01, 1990

INDIVIDUAL BATTING

                                       PIRATES
                                          Avg  Ab   R   H 2B 3B Hr Rbi  Sb
 Arace, Pascual, OF           .......... .227  44   4  10  1  0  0   5   5
 Calder, Joseph, 1B           .......... .286 126  13  36  8  2  1  23   4
*Capriotti, Joe, OF           .......... .175  40   2   7  1  0  0   3   1
#Cintron, Miguel, 3B          .......... .111  54   4   6  0  1  0   2   2
 Colon, Angel, SS             .......... .281  32   3   9  0  0  0   3   0
*Conger, Jeffrey, OF          .......... .200  75  16  15  3  1  0   6   2
 Davis, Brad, C               .......... .216  37   3   8  1  0  0   3   2
 Gallego, Chris, 2B           .......... .191  47   4   9  3  0  0   5   0
 Hinson, Dean, C              .......... .191  47   2   9  1  0  0   6   0
 House, Mitch, DH             .......... .324 105  16  34 10  1  1  12   2
 Leavell, Barry, OF           .......... .276  58   7  16  1  1  0   4   1
 Mclin, Joseph, 1B            .......... .120  50   6   6  0  0  0   0   1
#Mitchell, Antonio, OF        .......... .160  50   8   8  1  1  2   6   3
 Nixon, Jason, C              .......... .184  38   5   7  1  1  0   1   2
*Peppers, Cedrick, OF         .......... .141  78   5  11  0  0  0   4   2
 Schaefer, Cory, OF           .......... .269  52   6  14  0  0  0   4   2
 Tooch, Charles, SS           .......... .298  57  11  17  5  0  0   3   1

INDIVIDUAL PITCHING

                                       PIRATES
                                       W  L    Era  G  Sv   Ip    H  Bb  So
*Arias, Alexander         ............ 1  1   1.64 10   0  11.0   8   4  11
 Bradley, Dave            ............ 3  4   2.93  8   0  40.0  41   9  20
 Coombs, Glenn            ............ 0  5   5.60  7   0  27.1  33  13  23
 French, Tim              ............ 1  4   4.84  9   0  22.1  21  12  22
*Gobel, Donnie            ............ 0  1   5.54  9   1  13.0  13   5  17
 Hooper, Troy             ............ 1  2   4.31  7   0  31.1  32  10  29
 Hunter, Bobby            ............ 0  0   1.20  5   2  15.0   3   6  17
*Ramirez, Roberto         ............ 1  0    .82  7   0  22.0  14  10  16
 Sosa, Jose               ............ 2  0   5.29  8   0  17.0  22   7   5
 Sparks, Shane            ............ 2  0   3.52 10   1  15.1  14   5   4
*Way, Ron                 ............ 1  0   2.25 10   3  12.0  12   1  12

    Gary Redus crushed a two-run homer into the mezanine last night to help
    Neal Heaton end his losing streak, as the Pirates beat the Astros 7-1.
    
    The Mets lost to San Diego and fall 3 games behind the Pirates for the
    lead in the NL East.
    
    Barry Bonds for MVP!
    Doug Drabek for Cy Young!
    
    	--dan'l

    In some mail messages JaKe and I were exchanging earlier this week, I
    mentioned that the Bucs were beginning to scare me.  They'd lost their
    3-game lead in the NL East and the Mets seemed to be putting it all
    together.
    
    Then the Mets made the big mistake.  They told the media that
    Pittsburgh doesn't think they can beat them.  
    
    Thank you, NY Mets for giving the Pirates the inspiration to take a
    doubleheader from you last night.  
    
    The Pirates have played five doubleheaders all year and have won all
    five.  
    
    In last nights first game, Zane Smith (4-0 since joining the Pirates)
    gave up a lead off single and then the only other Met to reach first
    the rest of the game was on a walk.  ESPN cut to the end of the first
    game at 7:30.  Just in time to watch Gary Redus make his way from first
    to third and see Barry Bonds hit his 100th RBI to win the game. 
    Couldn't have been better timing on ESPN's part.
    
    The Pirates' struggling bullpen did the job in game 2 as Bob Kipper and
    Ted Power took over for Neal Heaton and pitched four shutout innings. 
    But the real star was Jeff King who went 3 for 4 including two home
    runs that drove in all the Pittsburgh runs and the Bucs won 3-1.
    
    This is the kind of series that makes or breaks a season.  Pittsburgh
    just took the upper hand.
    
    Go Bucs!
    
    	--dan'l

    Nah, the real reason the Bucs are doing so well is because the Green
    Weenie is back.  :-)
    
    
    py 

    The "Green Weenie" RULES!!!!!!!!!1
    
    JaKe
    

    
    In keeping with the times, the old manually operated Green Weenie
    has been restructured with a circuit board, microchips, and a remote
    control for pointing at the opposition.  It's now the "Neon Green
    Techno-Weenie."
    
    Dickster
    

    Who can't beat who,pirates 7-1,3 game sweep,3.5 game lead.
    Film at eleven

    
    re: -1
    
    all talk... like when they smoked the Sox in the WS, right?

    Bucs and Drabek(now19-6) took it on the chin tonite at the hands of the
    New Yuck Mutts, 6-3.  Lead is now 1-1/2 games.
    
    JaKe
    

    Pirates remaining games this month and next.
    
    at Montreal 14-16
    at Chicago 18-20
    St. Louis 21-23
    Chicago 25-27
    at St. Louis 28-30
    New York 1-3
    
    Thank goodness this is the last series against the Expos.  They've been
    the Bucs' bane all season.
    
    Anyone have New York's remaining schedule?  I assume it's similar to
    the Pirates (i.e. no more out of division play).
    
    	--dan'l
    

    
    The lead is now one in the loss column...
    

    In about 24 hours, I get on a plane to the French Riviera.  I will be
    teaching ALL-IN-1 integration over there; learn ALL-IN-1 and see the
    world.  I can hear you now, "Tough job, dude."
    
    Yes, it will be tough studying the presentation material this weekend
    on the Cannes beach with topless, exotic foreign women all around me. 
    Or perhaps I'll drive to St. Tropez where I hear bare breasts are only
    the beginning...
    
    But there is one drawback to this whole thing.  I'M GOING TO MISS THE
    PENANT RACES!  When I scheduled this trip, I had no idea that the Bucs
    would still be in it (and they are currently trying their best not to
    be).
    
    I'll converse with yunz all when I get back.  By then, the playoffs
    will be starting.  I hope the Pirates are still alive.
    
    As for the Steelers, maybe their offense will be out of the embryonic
    state by then.
    
    	--dan'l
    
    PS: See you at volleyball when I get back, TTom.

    dan'l, send me mail.  Include your home address.  Look for the nice new
    easy to use 35mm camera that I will send you.  Notice the handy
    telephoto lense attached.  Also, you will find 12 rolls of 36 exposure
    film, 6 of which are 100 ASA for brilliant color and the other 6 being
    1000 ASA to grasp every fast moving detail.  Wish I could buy you a
    camcorder but my wife would ask questions.......
    
    Hawk

Hey Dan'l, have you already been to Valbonne???

I know that you're leaving today, but if you read this in time, give me a 
buzz in Geneva when you can (Cannes)?

I've travelled there a lot......

rick ellis @geo (821-4098)

    Rick,
    
    Just tried to call you and you weren't there.  I'll give you a call
    when I get to France (if I get the chance).  I will be here for a
    little bit longer so if you want to call me:
    
    	DTN 393-7353
    
    --dan'l

Dan'l

Sorry, this is turning into telephone tag.

But a lady with the most southernish kind of accent answered...

Please do gimme a buzz even if only a quick one, but not at the *end* of your
trip, it'll be too late.

I'll be leaving shortly as it's approaching 6 pm here.

Sorry gents for having this stuff in your Pirates note...

rick ellis

    Bucs beat the Cubs today 8-7.  Doug Drabek bacame the National Leagues
    first 20 game winner this year and the first Pirate since John
    Candelaria in 1977 to win 20.
    
    Barry Bonds had 2 home runs to push his total to 31 hr's this year and
    now has 109 rbi.  Bobby Bonilla had an Rbi to push his total for the
    season to 110.  Mike Lavalliere went 4 for 5 and Jeff King had 2
    doubles and a single and and Rbi.
    
    
    JaKe
    

>>   <<< Note 226.107 by SHALOT::MEDVID "from the bottom of my pencil case" >>>
>>            -< Unless Sodamn Insane blows me up over the Atlantic. >-
    
>>    Yes, it will be tough studying the presentation material this weekend
>>    on the Cannes beach with topless, exotic foreign women all around me. 
>>    Or perhaps I'll drive to St. Tropez where I hear bare breasts are only
>>    the beginning...
    
    A stroll on the beach sort of brings a new meaning to "walking
    erect", no??
    
    JaKe
    

    ***********************N E W S F L A S H********************************
    
    
    New York Mets EXPOSed, bats come up short.  Lose 2.
    
    Bucs pound the Cubs 11-2, Van Slyke hits 2 dingers, Bonds knocks one
    out, #32, 111 rbi.  Bonilla knocks on 2 rbi to assume a share of the
    league lead with Joe Carter at 112rbi for the season.
    
    Bucs lead now 2-1/2. 
    
    
    JaKe
    

    Bucs beat the Cubs tonite, 4-3 although 2 errors in the top of the
    ninth made it a nail biter.
    
    Top of ninth, ball hit to Jeff King, King throws in dirt runner safe.
    One out, Dawson singles, 1st and third.  Next batter singles, 4-2 one
    out.  Next batter bounces textbook doubleplay ball to Jay Bell who
    boots the ball and another run scores, 4-3, still one out.  Leyland
    makes the decision to stay with Zane Smith.  Next batter bounces
    another textbook double play ball to Bell who makes the play and the
    Bucs get the double play and the win.
    
    Pirates magic # is now 5.  Bucs have set team attendance record and
    so far have drawn 1,896,897.  Looks like the Bucs are a shoe-in to
    break the 2 million mark, with 130,000 tickets already sold for the
    3 game series to end the Season vs. the Mutts.
    
    Mets are winning in the top of the ninth , 3-0.  C'MON EXPOS!!!!!!
    
    
    JaKe
    

    for the third straight game, the Bucs fell behind to the Cubs early and
    for the third straight game, the Bucs came back to win tonight, 3-2.
    Randy Tomlin (now 4-4) got the win and Vincente Palacios got the save,
    his 3rd or 4th.  Palacios has pitched well for the Bucs since being
    recalled from Buffalo a couple weeks ago, but, he is not eligible for
    post season play, unless something happens to one of the Pirates staff.
    Anybody wanna run Ted Power off the road for me??????????
    
    Andy VanSlyke, Syd Bream and Bobby Bonilla had the Bucs rbi's tonight.
    
    Bucs travel to St Louis tomorrow for a three game weekend series and
    then it's home to face the Mutts in what could be the showdown for the
    NL East championship.  The Mutts won tonite, by the way and they play
    Chicago this weekend.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    Bucs Beat Cards 6-4 tonite, but, the Freakin' Mutts from New Yuck beat
    the Cubbies and now the Bucs magic # stands at 3.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    Congrats to the Pirates, NL East Champs.  Should be an interesting
    World Series vs Oakland.
    
    NAZZ

    Mets must have really choked!  I am happy, happy, happy that the Bucs
    clinched this one before the NY series.
    
    Can someone please post the schedule of the NL championship series?  I
    want to know how many games I'll miss while I'm still over here in
    France (where the only sports I could find on TV this week were auto
    racing and soccer).
    
    	--dan'l (who's getting a little homesick for the crack of the bat)

    I don't see the Pirates as an easy winner of the Reds.  Certainly not
    of the magnitiude of the A's over the 'Sox/'Jays.
    
    True Cincy has been up-and-down lately (mostly down, actually) but
    they're just as talented as the Bucs.  Starting pitching has been
    shaky, but Rijo is as strong as anybody and Charlton's been decent. 
    Seems like Danny Jackson has had a few decent outings lately as well.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    Congratulations to the Pirates and their supporters.  I was really
    pulling for the Mets, but the Pirates proved to be the class of the
    NL East.  7 straight wins and 10 of 11 (or something like that).
    
    I think that they'll get past Cincinnati.  The Reds have not played
    well for most of the season... 56-58 since their fast start.
    
    I am curious at the announced rotation for the playoffs...  Walk,
    Drabek and Smith.  I'd have figured they'd use Smiley or Tomlin
    instead of Walk.
    

    Smiley has been getting hammered as of late.  The Bucs would have
    clinched alot sooner had he not given up so many fat ones in early
    innings since coming back from the run in with the taxi cab.
    
    I'm surprised about Tomlin not going in there though.  But they could
    be saving the kid for a big one in another game...
    
    	--dan'l

    	Geez, I'm dissapointed today.  I was expecting a 100 line reply
    from JD saying how proud he was of the "overachieving" Mets and
    how the "healthy" and "talented" Pirates won out in the end.  Come
    on JD, don't let us down.  8^)
    
    				/Don

    Walk pitched a 3 hit shutout on Saturday.  Reds hit lefties well.
    
    NAZZ

    Re.121
    
    Leyland decided to go with Walk because, although bothered by a pulled
    groin muscle a few times this season, in his last 2 outing he was 2-0
    and only gave up one or two runs.
    
    I don't see the Bucs walking over the Reds either.  I think it'll go 6
    or 7 games and the Bucs will come out on top, but only if the Pirates
    starting pitching holds up, as they have no "closer" as of right now.
    
    Doug Drabek, who closed his season out at 22-6, and an incredible 13-2
    since the All-Star break, should be a shoe-in for the Cy Young in the
    NL this year and Barry Bonds and Bobby Bonilla are both front runners
    for the NL MVP.
    
    Now, Leyland should pitch Ted Power in one of the Bucs-Mets games
    remaining and hope for him to re-injure his arm so that Vincente
    Palacios can join the club in the playoffs.  Palacios has pitched over
    13 innings since joining the Bucs in Sept without giving up a run.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    
    
    	The bucs are in!!  The Gunner must be rolling over in his grave!
    
    	I'm glad it's over.  Maybe now the Pirates will get some much
    deserved respect... All everybody seemed to talk about was how good
    the Mets were, and it only a matter of time.  
    
    	Geez, 11 years since "the family"...it just seemed like yesterday
    that Sanguillen got that clucth pinch hit in game 6....
    
    	Well, on the the series and the Reds who will be tough.  If
    the Pirates outfield gets offensive, they have a good shot at the
    series, but if the B&B boys along with VanSlyke don't produce, it's
    going to be a loooooooong winter...I shudder at the thought of having
    to watch Bubby to get my kicks!
    
    							bill..g.
    

  
>>    Can someone please post the schedule of the NL championship series?  I
>>    want to know how many games I'll miss while I'm still over here in
>>    France (where the only sports I could find on TV this week were auto
>>    racing and soccer).
    
>>    	--dan'l (who's getting a little homesick for the crack of the bat)
  
    
    Well Dan'l, Here goes
    
    Thurs. Oct 4th  In Cincy   @8:30pm
    Fri.   Oct 5th  In Cincy   @3:15pm
    
    Mon.   Oct 8th  In PITTSBURGH  @3:15pm
    Tues.  Oct 9th  In PITTSBURGH  @8:30pm
    
           I F  N E E D E D 
    Wed.   Oct 10th In PITTSBURGH  @8:30pm
    
    Fri.   Oct 12th In Cincy       @8:30pm
    Sat.   Oct 13th In Cincy       @8:30pm
    
    
    JaKe
    
    

>    	Well, on the the series and the Reds who will be tough.  If
>    the Pirates outfield gets offensive, they have a good shot at the
>    series, but if the B&B boys along with VanSlyke don't produce, it's
>    going to be a loooooooong winter...I shudder at the thought of having
>    to watch Bubby to get my kicks!
    
    Regardless of what happens, bill, it's not going to be a long winter
    for me.  Even if the Bucs had folded and lost to the Mets, I would have
    been extremely happy with this season.  The fact that they won so many
    down the stretch and really didn't need any help from NY (i.e., the
    Bucs won when it really counted, and didn't have to depend on the Mets
    losing) will tide me over quite well this winter.
    
    Hey Bob Hunt, remember back in April when the Bucs won all those road
    games and you said, that's really going to count down the stretch?  You
    are indeed an all-seeing sports guru.
    
    If the Bucs do lose to Cinci or in the series, there is nothing to hang
    your heads about.  What a great season.
    
    And I won't be counting on the Steelers or the Pens to bring any gold
    to Pittsburgh this season.  Perhaps Pitt Basketball will be this
    winter's bright spot.  But who cares NOW!  On to the mighty and
    respected Cinci Reds!
    
    Go Bucs!
    
    	--dan'l

    /Don,
    
    I was out yesterday.   Congrats to the Bucs - they played well in
    September and won it all.  The Mets blew it when Davey Johnson was
    still managing the team at the start of this season.  I've lobbied
    sine 86 to dump him, and they did, but too late.   Bucs have a talented
    team, taht man for man, is IMO, better than the Mets.  No difference
    between the Mets and the Cards, IMO, they both finished below first.
    
    As for Dan'l - why say the Mets choked?  They were chasing the Bucs
    and didn't catch them, not vice versa.
    
    JD

    
>    As for Dan'l - why say the Mets choked?  They were chasing the Bucs
>    and didn't catch them, not vice versa.
    
 but they did catch them JD and believe that had atleast a 2 game lead at one
 point in the season....

mike

ps. smash the pumpkin (tm) fans need you over in the donks file...  ;^)

    Yes, JD, I agree with you.  My point of view was such:
    
    I'm in France and am getting very little news on the whole pennant race
    but from what's been posted in here.  I didn't know what happened
    Friday, Saturday, or Sunday.  All I knew is that it was a 3 game
    difference.  I find out Monday Morning that the Bucs are NL East
    champs.  My immediate reaction is that the Mets must have fallen apart.  
    
    I've since changed that opinion now that I know exactly what transpired
    over the weekend.  The Bucs just kept on winning.  It's as simple as
    that.
    
    By the way, a friend was at the game last night and the diamond vision
    screen showed the Mets burning a Pittsburgh cap in the visitor's
    dugout.  The Mets are a truely classless bunch of assholes.  They
    deserveed to come up short.  I can't beleieve a manager would let them
    do such a thing.
    
    	--dan'l

    I've been a closet Pirate fan since 1971, and have always considered
    them my 'NL team'.  I'm pulling for them big time against the Reds,
    even tho' Lou manages the Cincinnatis.  With Zane Smith waking up one
    morning a Pirate and having the confindence of Christy Mathewson, the
    Bucs look to me as if they can spot three starters through the 7 games
    and have an advantage over the Reds.  Personally, I'd give the Cy to
    Ramon Martinez, but Drabek is certainly the best NL starter left
    standing by the second week of October.  And then we have the Bonds
    factor.  I just love players who fall on the wrong side of the fans/
    media centers/rah-rah analysts and end up with negative publicity and
    overlooked talents.  Barry Bonds is just such a case.  He's the NL's
    MVP this year, no doubt.
    
    With the Reds playing below .500 since late June, I look for the Bucs,
    who battled the Mets almost to the end, to win it in at most 6.
    
    Dan

    	HaHaHa!  Dan the closet Pirate fan?  Is that why you told me
    earlier in the year you were going to miss WWOR and all those Mets
    games?  Classic vane stuff!
    
    				/Don

    >	HaHaHa!  Dan the closet Pirate fan?  Is that why you told me
    >earlier in the year you were going to miss WWOR and all those Mets
    >games?  Classic vane stuff!
    
    Vane stuff?  Get a grip of reality /Don, or are you still stunned by
    the Pats loss to the Jets (and no mention of the bet you lost to me
    that you have yet to pay off...)  I've *always* disliked the Mets,
    since I was in 3rd grade and they won the World Series and every other
    little kid jumped on their bandwagons (I know you know all about
    jumping on bandwagons...).  In the NL, I root for the Bucs which never
    stopped me once from enjoying NL baseball on WOR.
    
    Dan

       I thought you said $6.00 KEG /Don!
                                   Denny

    >      -< Don't worry Dan, you'll get your $6.00 case of beer... >-
    
    I thought we said winner choses the bear.  Samuel Smith Oatmeal Stout
    please, and step on it!
    
    Dan
    

    /don lost a wager???  amazing!
    

    
    /Don bet on the Pats???? Even MORE amazing.
    
    
    
    
    Steve

    The silly boy bet against the Jets.  Of course he lost!
    
    No one actually thought /Don would beat *me* in a bet, did they?
    
    Dan

    Reds just scored one in the first.  Ended up loading the bases with one
    out and Drabek struck out 2 to end the inning.
    
    JaKe
    
    GGGGGGGGOOOOOOOOOO
    BBBBBBBBUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    

btw-- It was stil 1-0 in the bottom of the 4th when I went out to lunch...


Metz

	Bottom of eighth, Cincinnati 2, Pittsburgh 1
	Paul O'Neill both Cincinnati RBI's; Jose Lind solo HR for Bucs
	Drabek still pitching; Myers now in for Cincinnati
	  [3rd Reds pitcher after Browning, Dibble]

    Reds win game 2, 2-1.  Drabek pitches 5 hitter but loses.
    
    Oh well, on to Pittsburgh Monday.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    	GAME 3	Three Rivers Stadium
    
    		Cincinnati  6
    		Pittsburgh  3
    
    	   WP  D.Jackson  1-0
    	   LP  Z.Smith    0-1
    
    	  Save R.Myers   (2)
    
    		Reds lead the series 2-1
    

    Damn, Damn, Damn.
    
    The Reds won tonite, beating the Bucs by a score of 5-3.
    
    Reds now lead series 3 games to 1 and COULD close it out tomorrow as
    Oakland will.
    
    Bucs batters are , for the most part, asleep at the plate.
    
    JaKe
    

    Eric Davis made the play of the game, throwing out Bonilla trying to
    stretch a double into a triple.  Would've been a man on 3rd with 1 out.  
    
    Awesome!  
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    
    BTW, I hope fans of the DH watched this game.  A whole new dimension
    of strategy was brought into the game when Piniella had to decide
    whether to lift Meyers for a pinch hitter.  Jeesh I hate that rule.

    >Eric Davis made the play of the game, throwing out Bonilla trying
    >to stretch a double into a triple.  Would've been a man on 3rd
    >with 1 out.
    
    Although Eric Davis did, in fact, make the play, I can't say that
    it was the best play.  The throw reached third on a bounce (what's
    the matter, he couldn't throw the full distance?), he SHOULD have
    made that very play, and if Bonilla hadn't trotted along the first
    base line admiring his shot thinking "that's out of here" there
    wouldn't even have been a play at third.
    
    I am a Reds fan, and enjoyed watching what few games I could over
    the past 10 years.  However, Eric Davis isn't the one who made the
    play, Bonilla screwed up.  Just giving credit/critisism to the players
    that deserve it.
    
    The Wizard

>    BTW, I hope fans of the DH watched this game.  A whole new dimension
>    of strategy was brought into the game when Piniella had to decide
>    whether to lift Meyers for a pinch hitter.  Jeesh I hate that rule.
    
    New??  Deciding whether to hit for a weak hitting pitcher is a new
    dimension of strategy??
    
    -- dg

>    Although Eric Davis did, in fact, make the play, I can't say that
>    it was the best play.  The throw reached third on a bounce (what's
>    the matter, he couldn't throw the full distance?), he SHOULD have
>    made that very play, and if Bonilla hadn't trotted along the first
>    base line admiring his shot thinking "that's out of here" there
>    wouldn't even have been a play at third.
       
    I never said it was the best play.  I said it was the play-of-the-game,
    which is a cliche in and of itself which I hate to use.  There were
    obviously many big plays in this game (Hatcher's throw to the plate,
    Sabo's HR, etc).  Nevertheless Davis' throw stands out in my mind
    because of the situation.  The difference between a man on 3rd with 1
    out in a 1-run game versus nobody on and 2 outs in a 1-run game is big,
    Big, BIG!
    
    And it *was* a great throw.  He hustled over to back up Hatcher and
    fired a perfect strike to 3rd.  The fact that it bounced means nothing. 
    Outfielders are taught to hit their cutoff man first and foremost. 
    That means throwing line drives, not lolly-pops.  Davis' was a bullet,
    and a strike, both components of a "great" throw.  On astroturf
    the fact that the ball bounced could actually *accelerate* its progress
    to the base.  (Remember Dave Conception's patented bounce throw from
    deep in the hole at shortstop?)  
    
    
>    New??  Deciding whether to hit for a weak hitting pitcher is a new
>    dimension of strategy??
    
    Not quite so simple.  The Reds are up 1.  Your ace reliever is in the
    game, yet you have the chance to add an insurance run(s).  Very big
    decision which I feel added an extra dimension to the game.  In the AL
    this woulda been a non-existent dimension.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

    
    	Amen to that Wizard!  Davis just did what any outfielder
    	should do....back up the play.  Bonilla made a terrible
    	round of 1st base which cost him that half step he was
    	out by.  This series would be over if that idiot Davis
    	would have caught that fly ball the other night!  I'm
    	still mad at him.  I say let him and Strawberry go play
    	together somewhere and let them drag that team down.
    
    	Claybone  

    Come on people, Davis not only did his duty (back up Hatcher), he went
    well beyond it - he picked up the ball about 20 feet form the fence in
    dead center, and with no hesitation, fired a one-hop strike to third.
    Frankly, I think Bonilla should not have gone for 3rd with Bonds coming
    up, but I didn't see him loaf. He was hauling a**, and it took a
    perfect throw to nail him.

    Bonilla was hauling a** (as you put it) from 1st base until the
    slide at third.  My point was that from the batters box until 1/2
    way up the 1st base line he was trotting, because he thought it
    was out and it wouldn't hit the wall. 
    
    If a one bounce throw over 250 feet is a perfect throw, then what
    are all those throws from the outfield to the catcher (an extra
    ~ 70 feet) without bouncing that I've seen over the years.
    
    How it is possible for an outfielder to pick up a ball without
    hesitation and try to throw out a runner in a playoff game is well
    beyond his duty is well beyond me.  Davis did exactly what was expected
    of him to do, he just executed it well.  This coupled with Bonilla's
    trot makes Davis look like a hero.  I look at it as just another
    play that must be done.
    
    The Wizard

    >BTW, I hope fans of the DH watched this game.  A whole new dimension
    >of strategy was brought into the game when Piniella had to decide
    >whether to lift Meyers for a pinch hitter.  Jeesh I hate that rule.
    
    Unfortunately, Lou grew up in the AL where they don't send
    non-competitive players up to bat because of stubborn tradition.  I
    don't know how poor Lou came to the conclusion to yank Meyers when he's
    only got Rob Dibble in the pen behind him.  Lou must have got some help
    or used crib sheets prepared by Sparky Anderson left over from 1978, or
    something.
    
    Dan

    True, having Dibble out there is fine consolation, but Lou was on
    record as saying he was only available for 1 batter.  Obviously a
    creative (and effective) ploy by Piniella which seems to have worked, 
    given Pittsburgh's decision to intentionally pass Duncan to get to
    Meyers.
    
    In any case I thoroughly enjoy the extra strategy aspects of the game
    presented in the NL, FWIW.  Purely opinion.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    >But he has taken his first NL team to the Championship series.
    
    Which sorta destroys the myth about the DH causing all this brain
    paralysis in AL managers relative to NL, no?
    
    Dan

    The Bucs, suffering from VERY anemic bats, are in need of a visit from
    the HIT Fairy.  unfortunately, no one has been able to contact the HIT
    fairy so, Hal Whitehair, do you think you could get in contact with
    Bernie K. and ask if he can help the Bucs.  Hell, this late in the NLCS
    any fairy will do.
    
    JaKe
    

    The NLCS is going back to Cincy.
    
    The Bucs won tonite, 4-3.  Doug Drabek pitched very well but was lifted
    in the 9th and Bob Patterson got the ground ball that Bonilla made a
    good play on and the Bucs turned a game ending double play.
    
    Bucs in 7 anyone??????????????
    
    JaKe
    

    Correction, the final in game 5 of the NLCS was 3-2, not 4-3 as I
    stated in the previous reply. 
    
    JaKe
    

RE: Dan


Those of us who hate the DH have never said that the AL managers were
fools.  The argument is that the DH removes an aspect of the game that
makes managers make tough decisions, which have always been part of the 
game. 


RE: Jake


Yea!  I'll take the Bucs in 7.  However, these guys are going to make 
me crazy.  they should have yanked Drabeck after the first baserunner
in the 9th.


-bill

    Bonilla's play was almost as great as Davis' the previous night.  You
    take a guy who's been in the outfield 95% of the year and put him back
    on 3rd base.  Then you've got bases loaded with one out in the ninth.
    
    The ball is hit far to his left and he fields it and makes an off
    balance yet perfect throw.  A tough play to begin with.  On top of
    that, any hesitation or slight misthrow and the game is tied.
    
    Even Buck was calling it a tie game before Lind made the continuation
    to first for the last out.  I think everyone was amazed that the
    Pirates turned a DP on that ball.
    
    And hats off to Tim McCarver for picking up Pinella's tactical roster
    error when it first appeared.  I got tired of hearing about it, but
    boy, was it great forsight on McCarver's part or what?
    
    	--dan'l

    Another tense one last night.  Watching Lou's bonehead move last night
    I just might be able to be convinced of Dan's rhetorical "American
    League brain paralysis" thing.  Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb.  And yes,
    McCarver was right, but man-oh-man did he tell us enough times!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
>    And hats off to Tim McCarver for picking up Pinella's tactical roster
>   error when it first appeared.  I got tired of hearing about it, but
>   boy, was it great forsight on McCarver's part or what?
    
  
 Well Dan S., what do you have to say now? That great training Lou got in the
 Almost league cost him big time last night. "Well gee I better put my pitcher
 in the ninth spot cause he's my worst hitter"....

 mike

    > The argument is that the DH removes an aspect of the game that makes
    > managers make tough decisions, which have always been part of the 
    > game. 
    
    Yeah, I can see Cartwright now:
    
    	"Hmm, let's see.  We need to setup some strategic decisions that a	
    	team's manager will have to make, in order to create more interest
    	for the fans.  We wouldn't want them to get bored watching good	
    	hitters hit all/most of the time, so we'll take this pitcher guy 
    	and make him hit.  Yeah, that's it.  Then, managers will have to
    	decide whether or not to pinch-hit for the pitcher in certain
    	situations.  Yeah -- the perfect solution to an otherwise boring
    	game.   Now, it's ready!!!"
    
    -- dg
    
    
    
    
    :-)

    re .164
    
    ROOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLWWAAAAAAAARRRDDDDDDDDD !!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    

    Good call by Tim McCarver, but damn did he run it into the ground or
    what !!! 
    
    After hearing for the 59th time in 1 1/2 innings, I was rooting for
    Reed to hit a grand slam to shut him up (and I was rooting for the
    Pirates) ....

    Anyone watch the post game "celebration" and see the shots of the Reds
    and especially Pinella?  Think Lou knew the mistake he had made?  He
    was just staring.  And the Reds sat there in the dugout like they had
    just lost game 7.  
    
    I think the Pirates can do it since the wheels have begun to turn. 
    Bonds still isn't producing with his bat, but he made two great catches
    last night.  If Cinci is as down on Friday as they looked last night at
    the end of the game, who knows.
    
    Go Bucs...I love 'em no matter what happens.  They done made me proud.
    
    	--dan'l

    
    Let's hear some more pooh-poohing from the pro-DH crowd!
    
    Question: How come Tuesday night in the fourth inning with runners on 
              first and second and number eight hitter hitter Jose Lind at 
              the plate, Piniella didn't intentionally walk the bases full 
              to get to Bob Walk?  Lind got a hit, a definite no-no, but 
              the Reds lucked out when Bream was thrown out at the plate
              and Walk had to lead off the next inning.
    
    Question: How the hell did a non-athlete like Doug Drabek get a hit
              last night and go first to third a single to right?  I don't 
              see baserunning like that on the Red Sox...
    
    Question: How was Piniella able to screw up his second double-switch 
              move in just the past month?  Anybody should know that you
              always move the pitcher the farthest possible spot away from 
              the current batter, right?  Got to protect that Scott
              Scudder...
    
    Yep, it's all so boring and obvious...
    
    glenn
      

    re: .-1  (rooting for Reed to hit a 'slam)
    
    Hah!  My brother called me up in the ninth just to echo the same
    sentiments.  
    
    It went something like 
    
    ACC Chris' brother: "Man I hope Reed gets a hit to shut this guy up!"  
    
    (insert TV background noise while we both watch him hit into the
     DP, thereby christening McCarver as "prophet")
    
    ACC Chris:		"Well, guess McCarver was right."
    
    ACC Chris' brother: "Yea."  (click)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    re .164
    
    Too funny. Way too funny

> Well Dan S., what do you have to say now? That great training Lou got in the
> Almost league cost him big time last night. "Well gee I better put my pitcher
> in the ninth spot cause he's my worst hitter"....
    
    One small fact missed by Messers. McCarver, Knorr and Childs is that
    the player Piniella left in the game as a result of his "mistake", Jeff
    Reed, hit over .360 against lefties this year!
    
    Dan

    In that situation Dan I'd have to go with somebody with speed.  (I Forget
    everybody who was available, but somebody had to be faster than Reed.)
    The *only* thing you don't want to do in that situation is hit into a
    DP.  
    
    If Piniella made the move because of the .360 average I'd say he's off
    the hook, but I don't think this was the case.  (He may deny it, but
    that doesn't necessarily reflect reality.)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

 Dan, the guy had 198 batting average. Yes I remember them saying 325 not
 360 against lefties this year. For his career it was pointed out that it
 was lousier and how many times do you think he faced real lefties this year?
 My guess is somewhere around 10. Billy Hatcher was one of the people on Lou's
 bench. Bottom line Dan is that he had three righthanded batters and another
 lefthanded batter available on the bench to pinchhit for the pitcher. Lou
 took away his own options and was stuck with a 198 hitter where he could
 have dictated who Leyland has to bring in for relief and still been able
 to counter. He blew it man face it. don't be like Roger...

 mike

   > If Piniella made the move because of the .360 average I'd say he's off
   > the hook, but I don't think this was the case.  (He may deny it, but
   > that doesn't necessarily reflect reality.)
    
    He most certainly did not, and if this is Dan's defense then, well,
    the DH is in definite trouble from a strategic perspective.
    
    I still haven't seen any answers to those questions I asked.
    
    glenn
    

    >I still haven't seen any answers to those questions I asked.
    
    Glenn, you know there are no answers to those questions.  On the other
    hand, are you prepared to tell me that NL managers never make a
    strategic error?  Or that Piniella makes more than the rest of the NL
    managers?
    
    The pure unadulterated excitement I felt over the thrill of the double
    switch may have frosted my synapses, but I'm quite sure I recovered in
    time to hear Bill RObinson tell me that Reed hit OVER .360 against
    lefties.  That's not a bad alternative.
    
    The object was to get the runner home from third, and Reed came within
    a hair of doing that.  Personally, I'm glad he didn't because I'm
    rooting for the Pirates.  But I think those who are using this as an
    excuse to bash the DH and AL baseball are well off-line, considering
    that Piniella's very presence in the playoffs is volumes louder in
    support of the argument that one game is no "dumber" or "almost"
    compared to the next!
    
    Dan

I got a call from my brother last night (he lives in Pittsburgh)

If anyone's interested, there are STILL BOX SEAT TIX AVAILALBE FOR THE 
WORLD SERIES in Pittsburgh next Tuesday and Wednesday.    Alas, I can't
go because of other commitments, but it would be nice.


amazing, they can't even sell out the damned world series.


-bill
(from Pittsburgh)

    That's a pretty big "if" Bill.
    
    I still see the Reds as being in a pretty good position to win this
    thing.  They're at home, the Pirates best pitcher is out of the way,
    and the Reds ace is still in the hole.  
    
    In any case your observation is valid.  Failing to sell out any of the
    3 playoff games in Pittsburgh lends credence to the opinion that
    it's not a good baseball town.  Failing to sell out the World Series
    would indeed be embarassing!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    One thing that we can all take delight in is that it's clear McCarver   
    hadn't done his homework, despite his arrogant, repetitive, and downright
    obnoxious condemnation of Lou.

    The fact is Reed had a .360 average against lefties.  McCarver NEVER EVER  
    BROUGHT THIS FACT UP!  After the game Piniella said that he made the
    switch intentially, fully aware that Reed was tough against lefties.
    Whether or not this is true (and I've no reason to believe it's not) it's 
    clear to me that a good color analyst would've been aware of what a 
    player hits against lefties/righties!
 
    BTW - I listened to the Cincinnati sports talk show and, predictably,
          Cincy fans are rip-sh*t at McCarver.  Can't believe what a jerk
          he was during his endless Lou-bashing monologs ...


- ACC Chris
    

    Pittsburgh would only be a good baseball town if the Pirates played in
    Forbes Field still.  Three Rivers is a no fun stadium with several
    hundred bad seats.  And parking and traffic are ridiculous.  You can
    bet the Steelers will sell out, though.
    
    I wish everyone would stop making a big deal about the empty seats. 
    Pittsburgh is a great...repeat...great sports town.  Just because
    there are empty seats during a playoff series, everyone condemns the
    city.
    
    	--dan'l

    Pittsburgh made a mistake in their packaging of the tickets.
    
    They sold the seats in strips only.  That is, a fan *HAD* to buy
    tickets to all three NLCS playoff games *AND* all four World Series
    games upfront.   Refunds, of course, if any of the games wouldn't be
    played.
    
    That's forking over beaucoup cash for *SEVEN* games at once.   That
    ain't easy to do, folks.  I think the Pirates have learned a valuable
    marketing lesson.
    
    Bob Hunt

    > Glenn, you know there are no answers to those questions.  On the other
    > hand, are you prepared to tell me that NL managers never make a
    > strategic error?  Or that Piniella makes more than the rest of the NL
    > managers?
    
    Absolutely not.  Piniella's intelligence is a side issue at best.  He
    may or may not be smarter than the average NL manager.  I don't care.
    
    The point was that in the NL some interesting situations exist that
    can result in managers making decisions, where, yes, even mistakes are 
    possible.  The past two games highlighted that.  At the very least, I
    think you'll have to admit that those situations were interesting, with
    your only defense being that they just don't happen that often.  Denying 
    that the situations were there or believing that the guy's .360 average 
    against lefties nullified the situation just isn't being honest, in my
    opinion.
    
    By the way, after realizing what was going on, Piniella did ask Billy
    Bates, his newly acquired utility player, if he had ever caught.  After
    bunting the men over in the ninth, Hal Morris said he could "see it all
    unfolding".  And after the game, Piniella came up with the rather weak
    rationale that he thought Drabek would still be in there, so he saw no
    reason to protect against a lefty-lefty confrontation.  Right, Lou.  In
    a one-run game in the ninth, Drabek, who would have had to have been in
    a heap of trouble to get that far, would still be out there for the
    fifth batter, especially if he were a lefty.  That's classic covering-
    your-ass thinking (note that he did not express any after-the-fact 
    confidence in Reed).
    
    Just as more fuel for the fire, a while back I totalled up the batting
    numbers of all NL starting pitchers in 1988 (I didn't have relief
    pitcher data, who have very few AB's anyway), and found the league
    batting average to be approximately .140, a far cry from the sub-.100
    estimate I've seen you throw out previously.  That means that for every 
    three hits a weak hitting shortstop like Luis Rivera gets, an NL 
    starting pitcher gets two.  I can live with that.  Again, considering 
    the pitcher's defensive value, I think that's a nice balance.
    
    glenn
    

    
    > The fact is Reed had a .360 average against lefties.  McCarver NEVER EVER  
    > BROUGHT THIS FACT UP!
    
    I think that they posted this graphic during the game and one of the
    announcers commented on it.  Or am I confusing this with ESPN's coverage
    later?
    
    Let's face it, the fact that a .190 hitter hit .360 in an extremely
    limited number of at-bats against lefties is a fluke that went against
    the player's lifetime tendencies.  As mentioned in my previous note,
    Piniella is covering his ass (which again, is not the real issue anyway
    pertaining to the DH: the fact that some decision had to be made is.)
    
    glenn
     

    
    
    	Pittsburgh will always be a football town.  But, they do love
    their sports and I still feel that the city has never quite gotten
    over the sudden tragic death of Roberto Clemente.  Ahh, to grow
    up in those days when Clemente owned rightfield.  I don't know,
    maybe it's just me, but as good as Bonds and Bonilla are, somehow
    my heart still has a place in it for Maz, Clemente, and Willie.
    
    	Maybe it's because I was young, but I never remember those guys
    complaining about salary or another players lack of heart either...
    Of course, it was a *good* sign is Clemente said he wasn't feeling
    100% because he usually tore up the opposition when he was hurt...
    
    	I too, loved Forbes Field even if it was junky...the Ivy, a
    real centerfield and of course, the cop in Oakland that made it
    to Candid Camera... Those *were* the days.  Now-a-days, we have
    contract disputes, namecalling in the dugout, drug trials, drug
    addicts, and of course TV dictating when every thing will happen..
    
    							bill..g.
    

>    	Pittsburgh will always be a football town.  But, they do love
>    their sports and I still feel that the city has never quite gotten
>    over the sudden tragic death of Roberto Clemente.  Ahh, to grow
>    up in those days when Clemente owned rightfield.  

	Those words bring back fond memories for me too. Everytime I went
    to Forbes field, there was always a large group of people in the
    right field stands. They were not the best of seats and the seats
    next to left field were less expensive but usually empty.
    The only reason I could figure for the right field crowd was that
    they wanted to be close to Clemente. One of the greatest things about
    Clemente was how he always played the best against quality competition.
    I remember when Sandy Koufax was in his prime. He usually beat the Bucs
    and only give up 3 or 4 hits. Guess who had 2 or 3 of those hits.

>    	I too, loved Forbes Field even if it was junky...the Ivy...

	There's noting like real grass and balls gettin lost in the Ivy
    for inside the park home runs.     

					Keith

    >Denying 
    >that the situations were there or believing that the guy's .360 average 
    >against lefties nullified the situation just isn't being honest, in my
    >opinion.                                                         
    
    I've never denied the existence of the situations, or their apparent
    interest.  What I've always stated is that if we were somehow to
    measure "interest generated", and we'd balance that generated by
    the interesting situations brought on by pitchers hitting with the
    non-competitive more typical situations brought on my pitchers hitting,
    and then compared that with the "interest generated" by DHs hitting,
    the AL would probably generate far more interest.
                                          
    This leaves out my other solid argument entirely, that being that none
    of these situations are barred in the AL; that double switches can
    occur; that mistakes can be made; that pinch hitting for and sacrifices
    by bad hitters occur, etc.  In some, the situations are not unique to
    the NL.
    
    >(note that he did not express any after-the-fact 
    >confidence in Reed).
    
    I will note that he did.  He brought up the fact (I believe on baseball
    tonight last night; may have been on WFAN this A.M.) that Reed hits
    very well against lefties and he had gotten a number of big hits
    batting against lefties this year.  It was, admittedly, after the fact,
    and if he had it all to do over again, he probably (my opinion) would
    have done it differently, just like John MacNamara probably would have
    gotten Buckner the hell off the field.
    
    >a far cry from the sub-.100
    >estimate I've seen you throw out previously
    
    I throw out the figure of around .100 because that was the tally
    reported from 1961 through 1972, the year before the DH.  I trust a 12
    year figure better than a 1 year figure.  How 'bout you?
    
    BTW, despite the bashing, I think McCarver is an excellent announcer.
    
    Dan

    re: last few
    
    I went to Game 3 of the 1971 W.S. and 1 game each in the playoffs from
    1970-72.  All games were either sold out or close to it.
    
    I never thought of it in terms of baseball post-Roberto; I think the
    1979 playoffs and W.S. games were all sold out also; maybe it's the
    general "new era" of baseball with higher salaries than before, etc.
    
    BTW...just because there are box seats available now doesn't mean that
    it won't sell out if the Bucs make the Series;  there were still plenty
    of 1st-round playoff seats available at Mile High Stadium for the
    Broncos-Steelers game up until a couple of days before the game.  By
    gametime, they were all sold out.  It may be that most people, like me,
    assume the W.S. would sell out and didn't even bother to try for
    tickets.
    
    Also, I agree that the packaging stinks.  As a Pittsburgher stranded in
    Colorado, I would have considered flying to Pgh. for 1 W.S. game if
    tickets were available as such.  It doesn't even make sense to try to
    purchase any tickets if you needed all playoff and W.S. games to be
    purchased.
              

    BTW, I also heard that Leyland will be starting Ted "Tower of" Power
    against Cincy tonight instead of Zane Smith.  He didn't want the lefty,
    who wasn't too sharp in his last outing, going against the
    predominantly righty hitting Reds lineup.
    
    Just a rumor, but it sounded pretty likely.
    
    BTW, 25 at bats is not an "extremely limited" number of at bats in
    terms of the validity of the statistics.  It probably yields a very
    high (>>90%) level of confidence.
    
    Dan

    
    I'm sincerely interested in the source of that .100 average figure, Dan, 
    as it works against the theory that pitcher batting has gotten 
    progressively worse due to the DH being implemented at all the low
    minor league levels.
    
    > BTW, 25 at bats is not an "extremely limited" number of at bats in
    > terms of the validity of the statistics.  It probably yields a very
    > high (>>90%) level of confidence.
      
    What!  Explain.  There's no way Reed would approach .360 over a high
    at-bat total.  Where are you pulling this >>90% number?  I'll bet his
    chances were less than .250, at most.
    
    And, by the way, Reed did *not* almost do his job.  There was an easy
    force play at home and he did just about the only he could not do-- hit
    a ground ball to the left side.  He was supposed to get the ball out
    of the infield in that situation, plain and simple.
    
    glenn
    

Talked to my brother again last night.  He said that the empty seats
have become "the talk of the town" lately.


He also said that there was a study done by someone about ticket sales,
attendance and total attendance.   When you rank total attendance against
the number of people in the metropolitan area around a city, Pittsburgh
this year came in second at something like 105% of the total population.
(St Louis came in first with something like 135%, this is NL only, they
measure their attendance differently than the AL)


RE: Forbes Field


I too remember Forbes.  I've got (somewhere at my mother's house) a seat
frame from the Right Field bleachers. I wish it were still there, cause
Three Rivers is a terrible ballpark.  (although It would get a lot better
if they ripped up the turf!)


RE: Zane Smith


Brother Tom from Pgh opined last night that Smith will pitch well today.
He's got alot riding on it.  See, he wants to be a free agent next year,
and can't  go asking for the big bucks if he lost two playoff games.  He's
a decent pitcher (he pitched the game I went to on Oct 1st against the
Mets) and should be able to control the Reds.  It's not like they beat
the hell out of him last time they played, the Pirates bats just didn't 
do it.  

-bill

    >I'm sincerely interested in the source of that .100 average figure, Dan, 
    >as it works against the theory that pitcher batting has gotten 
    >progressively worse due to the DH being implemented at all the low
    >minor league levels.
    
    A long time ago, MorT made some ridiculous concerning the origins of
    the DH, and I corrected him, much to his consternation.  Since then
    I've looked up information about the origin to confirm this and came
    across this figure.  My sources are many, but I suspect this one may be
    from Total Baseball.  I'll check for you.
    
    >What!  Explain.  There's no way Reed would approach .360 over a high
    >at-bat total.  Where are you pulling this >>90% number?  I'll bet his
    >chances were less than .250, at most.
    
    I'm not saying that Reed is really a .360 hitter, but I am saying that
    25 at bats is a more-than-decent sample size to base some statistical
    probability on.  The >>90% figure can likely be found in the back of
    any statistics book in the t-tables, which (if I remember this subject
    well enough) describe the confidence you can place in a given sample
    size concerning it's ability to describe whole populations.
    
    >And, by the way, Reed did *not* almost do his job. 
    
    You have one way of looking at it.  I have another.  Reed chopped a
    grounder to Bonilla who went to second.  Given Bonilla's ability, or
    lack of same at that position, it was fairly amazing he managed this. 
    As it was, Reed was barely nipped over at first.  Pirates executed the
    play excellently.  Anything less, and Reed's job was done.
    
    Dan

    Word on teh radio is that Ted Power WILL be the starting pitcher
    tonite.
    Oh Well, there go the bucco chances.
    
    One theory in the office here is that Power will start, Pineilla
    will throw in some lefties(if he has any) against the rightie, then
    after one inning, Zane Smith will relieve Power.
    
    I can't see starting Power, who has been the picture of inconsistency
    this year, in a do or die game.
    
    JaKe
    

    Pirates fall to Reds, 2-1, lose playoff series 4 games to 2.
    
    Pirate bats were once again silent(only 1 f@#king hit) tonite.
    I really wonder why Leyland had Carmelhead Martinez bunt with Bonilla
    on second and Bonds on first with nobody out and Martinez had hit the
    ball well all night.  Then the bozo POPS UP THE BUNT.  I mean Jesus H
    Christ, foul off a bunt but get on top of the damned thing, don't pop
    it up.
    
    The Pirates epitaph of the series was, NO BATS!!!!!
    VanSlyke, Bonilla and Bonds bats were as silent as a one cheek sneak in
    church, and with the same smelly outcome.
    
    Hats off to the Reds pitching though, they made the Pirates look sick
    most of the time.  Especially Dibble.  I don't think they'll have the
    same success against the A's, though.
    
    The World Series will be Lions vs. Christians II, L vs C I was last
    year when the A's made the Giants look like a little league team.  I
    expect more of the same this year.
    
    Oh well, the dissapointment of the Bucs losing will soon go away and
    the memories of the 1990 season, where the Bucs were picked to finish
    no higher than 4th, and ended up leading the NL East for over 90% of
    the season will live thru the winter, when I'll be forced to endure the
    Steelers and the Pens, although I have confidence both will at least
    get thru their seasons respectably now that the Steelers TD jinx has
    been broken, and I think the Pens will be a much improved team, this
    year.
    
    Back to the Bucs, the main priorities over the winter should be signing
    Zane Smith, and also the other players that got them here this year. 
    Also, Doug Drabek should get whatever he wants, Barry Bonds deserves a
    decent raise, Syd Bream, one of the best defensive 1st basemen, should
    be re-signed, I think he's a free agent.  The one thing the Bucs need
    for next year, RELIEF PITCHING.
    
    The Bucs need to keep Bonilla away from third base next year, cause he
    turns the most routine of ground balls into an adventure.
    
    Oh well, enuf of my rambling.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    
    	Yep, the storyline of this series should read, Reds silence
    Pirate bats.
    
    	You can't win unless you score some runs.  I don't know whether
    it was just the pitching or the pitching and the fact that the Pirates
    are still young and inexperienced in postseason play.
    
    	Nevertheless, the Reds played an excellent series making the
    big play when they needed it.  In fact, I can't remember a series
    in which one team came up the the big hit or big play in the field
    as often as the Reds did.  
    
    	Well, it's on to next year.  The Pirates have a good team and
    now I guess we'll have to sweat out the signings of Bonds and Bonilla
    over the winter..
    
    							bill..g.
    

    Congrats to Zinzinnati - terrific season that'll now be capped off by a
    trip to the World Series.
    
    I'm not quite as pessimistic about the Reds chances.  The only clear
    superiority I give the A's at this point is their starting pitching,
    but given the way Cinci performed against a good hitting team like
    Pittsburgh even that's not a given.
    
    The Reds play solid defense (spectacular against the Bucs, actually),
    have some power, have great speed, and have the games best bullpen.
    
    This doesn't sould like the stuff of a mismatch.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

    I'll be rooting for the Reds also.  And I think they may have a chance
    against the A's if Oakland's homerun hitting doesn't resurface.
    
    If NY loses Strawberry and Pittsburgh loses Bonds, the NL East will be
    a very interesting division next year.
    
    Jeff King, in a few more years, will be the premeir 3rd baseman in the
    majors.
    
    	--dan'l

    Jim Leyland was named NL manager of the year Wednesday.
    
    R.J. Reynolds will not be in a Pirates uniform next year.  Pittsburgh
    offered a 2 year $1.5 million contract to him.  Reynolds turned it
    down.  He wants a 3-year deal.  Don't know if he's worth that much, but
    if a team has the $$$, he's solid performer.
    
    The Pirates didn't pick up their option on Ted Power so the righty
    filed for free agency.
    
    The team will not wear the pullover jerseys next year that they've
    been wearing since 1970.  Damn, those things must STINK!  The Bucs will
    wear button-down tops and belted pants in 1991.
    
    	--dan'l

    It's official, Doug Drabek was named the NL Cy Young Award winner for
    1990.  Drabek finished the year 22-6, and was 12-2 in games following a
    Pirate loss or losses.
    
    In other news, R. J. Reynolds signed with Yokohama, in Japan.  The deal
    is reported to be worth $1.3 mil for one year.  The Bucs had offered
    1.5mil over two years but Reynolds agent countered with a
    $4million/3years deal which the Buccos nixed immediately.  Personally I
    don't think that Reynolds is worth $1mil +.  Sure he batted .288 this
    year but he hit 0, yep that's right 0, home runs and only drove in 19
    rbi.   Siyanara, RJ.
    
    JaKe
    

    To no one's surprise, Barry Bonds was named NL MVP.  He missed a
    unanimous selection by one vote, that other first place vote going to
    Bobby Bonilla who came in second.
    
    Now Pittsburgh just has to sign both these guys.  Rumor has it that
    Bonilla is not coming back because the Pirates wouldn't sign R.J.
    Reynolds.  Wonder if this is just an agent ploy or is the real thing.
    
    	--dan'l

    It appears to me that the Pirates are showing that a commitment to
    winning is not a part of their business plan.  The reason I say this is
    that they did not sign Sid Bream, who signed on with the Atlanta Braves
    yesterday.  Sid is, IMHO, one of the best defensive first baseman in
    the league and also anchored the Pirate infield.  Just who the hell do
    they have to play first base and consistently dig the errant throws out
    of the dirt, Gary Redus, Nah,  Carmello Martinez, Nah.
    
    When Bonds and Bonilla become free agents next year, I guess they'll
    leave, as will Doug Drabek.  Sheez, next thing you know the Bucs will
    rehire Chuck Tanner as manager and sign some druggies and revert back
    to the Buccos of the mid 80's.
    
    JaKe