Conference 7.286::atarist

    Not to ignore the usefulness of hard disks, but did you say that
    it was possible, with 5 ICs or so, to build an IBM PC bus for the
    ST?  Disks schmisks, that would be useful for a lot of things!
    Can you tell more?
             fred

    I'm about to enter my screed about adding a 40Mb disk to my 10Mb
    Supra drive ("100,000 blocks on line"). Stay tuned.
    				- HBM

    I finally found enough free time to work on my SCSI interface
    last night, and the change I worked out some time ago to make DMA
    writes work correctly appears to work fine. I moved many megabytes
    of random numbers in and out of the buffer memory in the Adaptek
    controller (using the read buffer and write buffer commands) without
    any errors.
    
    The problem was that I was getting flakey single-bit data errors;
    in my case always bit 0x10. What it turned out to be was a hold
    time violation on the NCR SCSI chip. It turns out that the DMA
    controller will, under some circumstances, switch the data lines
    to the new value on the same clock edge that it uses to negate the
    CS L signal.
    
    Since there is always data at the leading edge of CS L, I stuck
    an LS374 register into the outbound data path. This register is
    clocked on the leading edge by the write, and is enabled onto the
    internal data bus of the interface any time the WR L signal is
    asserted. The trailing edge of CS L is used to clock data into the
    SCSI chip, as before -- but the data is now held by the register.
    
    Total for the interface: an NCR5380, an LS374 (write register),
    an LS244 (read buffer), an LS273 (a register used to generate the
    three address bits for the NCR chip), a 16L8A to glue it all together,
    plus the 220/330 ohm resistors in the termination and the bypass
    capacitors.
    
    I'll keep reporting progress ...
    
    dgc
    

    Just to finish the story, I made a good backup, edited the driver
    so that it used DMA during data phase, recompiled it, and booted.
    I used it all last night and it worked fine.
    
    It's disturbing at first to see the select light lit on the disk
    and the busy light off on the Adaptek. The Adaptek only lights its
    light in a way that you can see if the command is slow (i.e., if
    there is a long seek).
    
    dgc
    

RE: .5

    Interesting.  But who or what is Cthulthu?  (I'm assuming this is
    not some undocumented piece of the o/s.)

-b

    
>    Interesting.  But who or what is Cthulthu?  (I'm assuming this is
>    not some undocumented piece of the o/s.)

    	Cthulthu is an ancient god. I probably spelled it wrong.
    				- HBM

    And I thought adding a hard drive was going to be an easy task!
    
    Pat K.
    
    

    Cthulu is actually a ``modern'' god.  A character in some books
    by H. P. Lovecraft.  A really NASTY dude.
    
    Steph

    HELLO ALL ATARI HACKERS
    WE HAVE ONE HARDDISK UP AND RUNNING WITH C`T INTERFACE AND OMTI
    CONTROLLER . IT WORKS VERY FINE WITH A DEC RD53 OR A LAPINE 20 MB.
    IF THERE ARE MORE QUESTIONS PLEASE USE DECMAIL  HAMSUP::WILK OR
    NOTES (SOFTWARE AND HARDWARE).
    
    BYE

    re:.10
    I have the articles, thanks to Pat Keane, not that I can read the
    German!  But I'm not familiar with OMTI.  What does the OMTI spec
    cover?  Is it a common interface, or is it pretty much limited to
    one make of controller (SMS?)?
    
    In other words, if I build the OMTI adapter (very simple!), what
    type of disk/controller will I need, and how much does that cost?
              fred

Hi,

Re .10

I would be appriate it if you could send me more info about this, especially
the circuit diagrams, text and the replies to Fred's questions (hi Fred, how's
it going?). My mail location is @VBE. I suspect I can find a German speaking
Atarist to help with the text.

Nigel

I suspect that OMTI is a generic SCSI device that implements the "common
command set."  In addition to the common commands, there are a number of
vendor-unique commands that are used to specify options.  You can probably
live without these (and the drive manufacturer often creates OEM-unique
versions).

Martin.

I could do translation work selectively from the German as I spent 2 years
there living amongst the natives, but it would be a low-priority thing
and only individual requests.  I don't want to get into any copyright
trouble...   Mail to me.

CHad

    I want to build one of these things. I do not have a copy of the
    magazine, nor do I know where to get one. I do not want to deny
    the publishers their due royalties. On the other hand, my understanding
    of the Bern convention is that having someone post a copy is perfectly
    legal. It is making copies for profit that is possibly illegal.
    Ownership of the copyright of a translation is a fuzzy issue.
    
    Thus and so, will one of you people who have the article please
    post it or mail me a copy and stop teasing me with vague hints!

    The latest and greatest:
    
    I have solved all the 'I/O Subsystem lockout problems' by putting
    the Xebec 4000A Owl at the end of the SCSI chain.
    
    Apparently, this was due to built-in, non-removeable drive termination
    on the Owl... and it showed up (consistently) when I started using a
    longer cable. In addition, I can't find any way to change to the unit
    number on the Owl. 
    
    The bad news is, I managed to break the 40Mb drive with a $.02 6/32
    machine screw (by screwing it in too far). It shorted two terminals on
    the controller board, and blew out the write logic. So I got a
    read-only disk drive... looks like it's going to cost about $200 to get
    fixed (ugh).
    
    I'm seriously considering writing a SCSI disk drive
    diagnostic/exerciser... any interest in such a beast?
    					- HBM
    

    Hello All,
    
    		You dont read notes very thoroughly!!!. The OMTI controller
    you are puzzling over is a single height IBM PC XT  Hard disk
    controller. It is manufactured by Scientific Microsystems of
    California. The model type is 5520 A or B. It is a beautiful piece
    of hardware. All surface mount. Anaalog and control 2 k buffer ECC
    correction, Z8 control cpu, the works!! I purchased mine in the
    UK for 47 pounds X 1.8? dollars!. I have seen them advertised in
    US mags for 99 dollars. What the 5 ics do in the adaptor is convert
    the ST bus to enough of an IBM bus to drive the SMS 5520. The output
    of the 5520 is a standard st506  disk interface. It will drive 99%
    of all known hard disks. The software is available to a substitut
    e the BIOS, format and partition. there is a ROM boot listing and
    a park program.                                              
                                                                 
    Its a pity Fred hasnt read the bunch of articles I shipped him,
    cause there is a real jem (pun) hidden in them!! C'T magazine has
    produced a constructional article and the requisite new rom O/s
    to fit a 680020 and mmu unit into the atari and run 90% of software.
    Obviously proggs that use direct interupt calls go a bit sick. They
    said it couldnt be DONE !! but apparently the Germans have done
    it!!
    
    I am still waiting for the mini PCB adaptor to come from Germany,
    so I havnt got my HD up yet, but everything else is waiting. Keep
    you posted !!
    
    Cheers
    
    Pat K.
    

    Well, Pat, I couldn't read the German but I did look at the pictures!
    
    The OMTI controller is a little board (about 4 x 11 cm) with five
    chips on it:  74HCT04, 74LS08, 74LS245, 74LS374 and 74LS139.  It
    also has a little 20-position connector for the Atari end and a
    long 31x2 position OMTI-controller connector.  (Is that what a PC
    bus looks like?)  Not all of the pins are used (some are grounded).
    
    The assembly sources for the driver are also included, with lots
    of comments (in German of course).  It doesn't look real hard to
    build, but I didn't notice any mention of OMSI in the back pages
    (ads) of BYTE lately.  Not that I'd know where to look.
               fred

    Hi patrick
    
    Please could you copy me any information re your attempts to add
    a hard disk to your atari, including any circuit diagrams/data on
    the 5 chip and IBM XT card.
    
    Regards Trevor (ERIC::WORRALL @LZ0 LEEDS)

    I have built Dave Conroy's 5-chip ASCI to SCSI converter, and, together
    with his software, it works like a charm.
    
    I have an 80 Meg Quantum SCSI drive connect to my system as 5
    partitions of 16 MBytes each.
    
    Eventually, I will add an Adaptek 4000 and a ST-506 drive in place
    of the Quantum.
    
    For anybody who wants to add a hard disk, I strongly recommend
    considering this option.
    
    Steph

    How much was the final cost?
    
    Martin H.

    
    Hi everyone.
                                                              
    		I have just got my home brewed drive working properly!!!!
                                                              
    It all hung on entering the word GEM in upper case and not in lower
    case, when I entered the partition names in the PArtitioner program.
    That was apart from blowing up a disk control board and my controller
    card with reversed power connections, (whoever would have thought
    plus five was a purple wire and plus twelve a red one !!).
                                                    
    Cost:- In Pounds sterling!
    
    1 Scientific Microsystems control card   47.33
    1 C'T adaptor PC board 25 DM approx =     8.00
    IC's, cable, plugs etc for above card    10.00 
    Power supply			    21.00
    Disk drive borrowed   Ni                                               
               		
    Approx total = 86.33 pound* 1.80 dollars= 155.40
    
    Plus blood sweat toil and tears. mainly due to my stupid   !
    
    	 have seen the SMS controller OMTI 5520 advertised in US for
    99 dollars.
    
                    
        
    	 
                                                     

    The cost of the Conroy interface is about $20 (including a cable from
    the ST to the interface, but excluding a SCSI cable), and about four
    hours of expert prototype construction/debugging time. 
    
    Steph

>    The cost of the Conroy interface is about $20 (including a cable from
>    the ST to the interface, but excluding a SCSI cable), and about four
 
     Do you have a source for the ST D connector? It's an odd one - 19 pins,
  I believe... 

     Re -.2

     The cheapest SCSI-to-st506 adaptor I've seen went for $125 - could you
  tell us where you saw that price??

  Thanks all - I want a hard disk for cheap!

			Rob (who snapped up the $99 st520 advertised here,
				with Jeff Lomicka's unstinting help!)

    re .-1 
    I also built the Conroy interface. We got connectors from JDR
    microdevices, a silicon valley mail-order house. We have extras
    if you would like to buy them.
    
    rw
    

On a related topic, if anybody has information about using a second
drive with the Atari SH204, I would be interested in that also.  I'm
pretty sure that when using Supra's utilities, there's nothing more to
it than jumper settings and cables, but I would prefer to have the
benifit of knowing that it worked for somebody else.

    What if I told you I know where you can get Xebec s1410 SCSI <->
    ST506 for $40?
    
    Yep. And I know they work, because I bought one and put a ST251
    on my ST. 
    
    The answer is "Halted Specialties Corporation" in Sunnyvale. One
    of our better junk shops. Last time I was there, they had about
    12 of them left. Including full documentation.
    		- HBM (who lives in Silly-con Valley)

>    The answer is "Halted Specialties Corporation" in Sunnyvale. One
>    of our better junk shops. Last time I was there, they had about
>    12 of them left. Including full documentation.


  Sounds ideal! How about a phone number? Do you know if they will ship out
here? (Things are falling into place - I can almost taste cheap megabytes!)

							Rob

    Someone at last months A.B.A.C.U.S. meeting said they had just added
    a second drive to the SH204 and it was working. He didn't give any
    details just that it worked. I think it was the president of the
    Fort Devens computer club but I'm not sure. I can try to find out
    if you want more information.
    
    	Ray

>    The answer is "Halted Specialties Corporation" in Sunnyvale. One

	In answer to my own request: the phone number is 408-732-1573.
     And the bad news: they're out of the Xebec s1410 converters. :-(
     The salesman didn't give me much info as to when another "shipment"
     might be in. I am on the mailing list, though, so I'll post whatever
     info I get.... 
							Rob

    Perhaps someone could draw the schematic for the atari to SCSI adapter
    in NEO or Elite or something and put it and the parts list in the atari
    archives.
    
    /dana gould/who's leaving and won't be about to get the schematic/

    re .27
    
    There was an article in STart a few months back describing how to
    do this. I'll post the issue number and the salient points when
    I track it down.

    >There was an article in STart a few months back describing how to
    >do this. I'll post the issue number and the salient points when
    >I track it down.
    
    Issue is winter, 1987 volume 2,number 2. page 77 - by david small
    
    Bill Powers
    

    Re: .31
    
    >>    The answer is "Halted Specialties Corporation" in Sunnyvale. One

    >In answer to my own request: the phone number is 408-732-1573.
    >And the bad news: they're out of the Xebec s1410 converters. :-(
     
    Sorry, guys. I guess at $40 each, they went pretty fast.
    				- HBM

I have the article now, thanks Bill.  In summary, you add a second drive to
your SH204 by wiring it in parallel to the 34-pin wires, and wiring a
second cable to the second 20-pin connector on the controller, and on
the second drive, remove the terminator pack and set up as unit 2.

Then use Supra's software instead of Atari's.

    Re: .-1
        
> I have the article now, thanks Bill.  In summary, you add a second drive to
> your SH204 by wiring it in parallel to the 34-pin wires, and wiring a
> second cable to the second 20-pin connector on the controller, and on
> the second drive, remove the terminator pack and set up as unit 2.
    
    Hmmm, this is the same methodology for adding a second ST-506-type
    drive to an Adaptek or Xebec controller...
    				- HBM
    

Not surprise, since the SH204 uses the Adaptek 4000 controller.

I've reconfigured my SH204 to include a second drive.  In this case, I'm
using a DEC RD52.  Here are some notes about it:

	1 - As stated earlier, the hookup is easy.
	    a: You need to extend the 34-pin cable to reach all three
	       devices, the Adaptek 4000, the original drive, and the
	       second drive.
	    b: You need a second 20-pin to go from the second conector
	       on the controller to the second drive.
	    c: You need to power the second drive.  I used a "Y" cable
	       and tapped the Atari power supply.  It works.  I haven't
	       looked for any power ratings, so I don't know if I'm over
	       the limit or not.
	    d: In operation, the second drive has it's terminator
	       resistor pack removed, and is selected as drive 2.  The
	       resistor pack and drive select are reasonably easy to
	       locate on the bottom of the RD52 drive.  Don't do this
	       until after the drive is formatted.  Se (3) below.

	2 - Mechanically, there is no way you can fit two drives and still
	close the box.  For the moment, I have removed the cover to the
	SH204. (I broke the wires to the LED and put in a connector, so
	that poking around inside the box would be easier.)  I sit the
	RD52 (with the skid removed) on the mounting bolts for the
	Adaptek, and gravity holds it in place.

	I have on order an empty cabinet for a "Baby-AT" computer.  I
	intend to remount all this stuff in this spacious cabinet.

	[I Wonder if the Atari board would fit in this box?  If I could
	get the plastic case for the Mega-ST keyboard, I could remount
	the entire Atari system in the AT box, and have lots of room for
	memory expansion and things.]

	3 - For software, I have been using the Supra driver and hard
	disk utilities.  Their formatter can only format the first
	drive, so you must proceed as follows:

	    a - Unplug the cables from the original drive and plug them
		into the RD52, while it still has the terminator pack
		and is selected as the first drive.

	    b - Format and partition the drive using SUPFMT.  You select
		"Adaptek 4000" as the controller, and "other" as the
		drive. take the drive parameters from the table below.

		Note, however, that I was unable to use all 512 cylinders
		on my RD52.  SUPFMT claimed too many bad sectors.  I
		tried again with 511, and all was fine (but I had 80 bad
		sectors!  I suspect the power supply is being overworked.)

	    c - Remove the terminator, select the RD52 as the second
		drive, and build the two-drive configuraiton as
		described in (1).

Thanks to John Guineau in the Amiga conference, I have the head count,
cylinder count, and write precomp cylinder for some of the DEC hard
disks you are likey to pick up surplus around your lab or office.  You
will need to tell the formatter these numbers when you format the drive. 
Note that these numbers apply to Dave Conroy's disk driver as well.
(I don't have the RD50 or RD51 numbers.)  None of these drives requires
"reduced write current".

	     <<< BOMBE::DISK_NOTES$LIBRARY:[000000]AMIGA.NOTE;1 >>>
                                -< AMIGA NOTES >-
================================================================================
Note 1042.9                      Hard disk help                          9 of 28
WJG::GUINEAU "W. John Guineau, RD Buyout engineerin" 53 lines  13-JAN-1988 08:44
                          -< Format of table in .-1 >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Sorry, I forgot to include the format of this table... Here it is:




        ;;; DRVTBL parameter block format :
        ;;; max cyl (1-nnnn)
        ;;; max head (1-nn)
        ;;; precomp/4 (1-1020 /4)
        ;;; recal cylinder (0-nnnn)
        ;;; parking cylinder ( 0-nnnn, 0 = no park cylinder)


DRVTBL:
	; RD31		type 1	(SEAGATE ST225) 
	.WORD	615.
	.WORD	4.
	.WORD	256./4
	.WORD	671.
	.WORD	670.

	; RD52		type 2	(QUANTUM)
	.WORD	512.
	.WORD	8.
	.WORD	256./4
	.WORD	512.
	.WORD	0

	; RD53		type 3	(MICROPOLIS 1325)
	.WORD	1024.
	.WORD	8.
	.WORD	1020./4
	.WORD	1024.
	.WORD	0

	; RD54		type 4	(MAXTOR 2190)
	.WORD	1225.
	.WORD	15.
	.WORD	1020./4
	.WORD	1225.
	.WORD	0

	; RD32		type 5	(SEAGATE ST251)
	.WORD	820.
	.WORD	6.
	.WORD	1020./4
	.WORD	911.
	.WORD	0


             <<< BOMBE::DISK_NOTES$LIBRARY:[000000]AMIGA.NOTE;1 >>>
                                -< AMIGA NOTES >-
================================================================================
Note 1042.8                      Hard disk help                          8 of 28
WJG::GUINEAU "W. John Guineau, RD Buyout engineeri" 100 lines  13-JAN-1988 08:39
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


>   What is precomp?

Precomp (or pre-compensation) is a technique which is becomming  unnecesary
with newer drives. The layout of a typical hard disk (and floppies) is by
concentric rings, called cylinders. Each cylinder has subdivisions called
sectors in it.  Typically, for simplicity of design and mapping, all cylinders
have the same number of sectors (for DEC RD drives this is 16 or 17 depending
which controller you use - PRO/Rainbow/ RQDX1 and RQDX2 have 16, RQDX3 has 17
"normal" sectors and an 18th one is used for primary bad block replacement
(BBR)) This pattern is repeated for each head on the drive (neglecting a
dedicated servo surface for the sake of simplicity).

Now picture a pie (just like mom used to make!). Its round like disk platters.
When you slice it up, you create pieces of pie (sectors). A strange phenomena
of pieces of pie is that thier width (if you will) gets smaller and smaller as
you move toward the center of the pie. Well, on disk's this same thing happens
- as you move toward the center, the sectors (a slice of pie) get closer and
closer together. Note that this analogy of sectors to slices of pie si not
totally correct. A piece of pie is a single entity (until the fork hits,
anyway). On a disk, there is a sector in each cylinder so now the piece of
pie is sliced into cylinders.

So one can now see that individual bits on inner cylinders are packed closer
together than are the bits on outer cylinders. Each bit on a disk can be
thought of as a tiny bar magnet. We've all played with magnets and found that
if you put two N poles (or S poles) together, they repel and an N and S
attract. So at inner cylinders where bits are close together, they tend to push
eachother around. What precomp does is pack them *even closer* BEFORE it 
writes them on the disk so that when they finally settle thier terratorial
disputes, they end up in the right place.

This is a pretty simplistic view, but is generally what happens. Again not
all drives require precomp (most new ones don't). Putting precomp on a
drive that does NOT require it does not hurt (doesn't help either). NOT
putting precomp on a drive which DOES require it has the *potential* to cause
problems (won't always).


Does this help?


>   Also is it a good idea to have the heads automatically parked?

YES. "Parking" the heads assures that the heads will touch down in a dedicated
"landing zone" and not on your data. Not all drives require the user to park
the heads manually. Most will use the power generated by the spindle motor,
(it's really a generator at this point) as it slows to a stop, to drive the
heads to the landing zone.



BTW - RD53 has just reached over 100,000 hours MTBF !!! (MTBF is continually
being proven by all products measured in this manner)


Following is an exerp from a program we (RD buyouts) send to the drive vendors
to verify the FCT (defect map). It's the drive parameter table.

    Re: .-1
    
>    	I have on order an empty cabinet for a "Baby-AT" computer.  I
>	intend to remount all this stuff in this spacious cabinet.
>
>	[I Wonder if the Atari board would fit in this box?  If I could
>	get the plastic case for the Mega-ST keyboard, I could remount
>	the entire Atari system in the AT box, and have lots of room for
>	memory expansion and things.]
    
    I've had these kind of sick thoughts myself...
    
>     	3 - For software, I have been using the Supra driver and hard
>	disk utilities.  Their formatter can only format the first
>	drive, so you must proceed as follows:
    
    Huh? Are you *sure* about this? You told the Supra formatter
    SCSI 0, LUN 1 and it wouldn't format the disk??? I've never had
    a problem with the Supra formatter, and I've had up to 3 winchesters
    on my system...
    				- HBM
    

    Two things:
    
    	1. The Xebec S1410's are back in at Halted -- at least 4 of
    them were there on Monday (yesterday). They found them in a bin
    in the back of the store (not in the warehouse) and when these guys
    are gone, there aren't any left...
    
    	2. Does anybody have configuration information for a Xebec 4000A
    Owl? I'm trying to change the SCSI address (still).
    				- HBM

>    Huh? Are you *sure* about this? You told the Supra formatter
>    SCSI 0, LUN 1 and it wouldn't format the disk??? I've never had
>    a problem with the Supra formatter, and I've had up to 3 winchesters

Perhaps you have newer software?  I didn't see anyplace where I could
specify the SCSI and LUN numbers.  The SUPUTIL and SUPEDIT programs have
these options, but I was at a loss as to how to specify these to SUPFMT.

Then again, perhaps I'm blind, and missed it among all the drive
characteristics.  I'll look again tonight.

It would appear that the SH204 power supply did not have enough capacity
to handle the RD52.  At the moment, my SH204 power supply doesn't have
enough capacity to power a wristwatch - the overloading caused by the
RD52 seems to have damaged it so that it doesn't work anymore.

    
    Can anyone help with the address of any UK supplier of the 19 pin
    atari hard disk port plug.
    
    Regards Trevor
    
    

    This note seems like a good place to ask this questions.
    
    Should the heads on a hard drive be parked each time it is turned
    off, or only when it is transported?
    
    If I use my hard drive every day for at least 2 hours is it better
    to leave it on all the time or only when I'm using it?  What about
    the rest of the system?
    
    The table I keep my system on is a little unsteady.  How easy can
    a head crash occur due to vibration?
    
    Martin H.

    
    All hard drives eventually fail.  When the disks are spinning, the
    drive can take quite a bit of shock, since the air film between the
    heads and disks is quite stiff.  When the disks are stopped, and the
    heads are resting on the media, even in a parking (non-user data) zone,
    shock can raise a small particle of media.  That particle will
    circulate until it eventually causes a head crash.  If you're lucky,
    the drive filtration system may catch the particle.
    
    
    I always leave my hard drive running.  In fact, I leave my entire
    setup running, only turning the moniter off.  If the spindle motor
    bearings last five years, I'll be happy.
    
    On the other hand, Rodime specs their drives for 10,000 start-stop
    operations.
    
    Either way, the drive will eventually fail.  By that time, we'll
    all have laptop Crays anyway.
    
    Ed.
    

    Re: .45
    
    I always park my hard disk, then shut it off.  Even if you leave
    it powered on, I would at least park the heads.  I also live
    in New England where I am concerned about lightning storms that
    may catch a running system unaware.
    
    The full procedure I go through is the following:
    
    1) Park the hard disk
    2) When park is complete, power off the hard disk
    3) Power off monitor
    
    I actually leave my Mega ST2 running most of the time (except when
    I know lightning is in the area).  I have surge supressors on all
    power to all equipment connected to the ST, including on my phone
    line connected to my modem.  I have a 4 position RS232 switch to
    switch from the modem, and I leave the modem switched off of the
    RS232 port when I am not using it, just as a second line of defense
    against any lightning hitting the phone line and damaging the RS232
    port.
    
    My (Supra) hard disk has run without problem for almost 2 years this
    way.  I suppose that if it had a fan for cooling I might be more
    apt to leave it on, but it doesn't so I don't.
    
    							-Dave

    HELLO DMA-PC-DISK USER
    I JUST BUILT THE IBM-SLOT ATARI DMA ADAPTER & PURCHASED AN OMTI-5520B
    CTRL.(150DM), CONECTED A RD31-A (ST225) AND TRIED TO FORMAT THE
    DRIVE. IT DIDN'T WORK. A CALL TO THE WRITER OF THE ARTICLE IN THE
    CT 2/88 MAGAZIN GAVE ME THE INFORMATION, THAT IT MIGHT BE POSSIBLE
    TO USE 74HCTXXX IC'S INSTEAD OF 74LSXXX, BECAUSE SOME VERSIONS OF
    THE ATARI DMA CHIPS ARE VERY TIME CRITICAL AND HAVE A VERY LOW FAN-OUT.
    	IT WOULD BE HELPFUL IF ANYBODY, WHO HAS HIS DRIVE UP & RUNNING,
    COULD GIVE SOME INFO'S ABOUT HIS INSTALLATION-PROBLEMS.
    REGARDS , ROLAND

    HELLO DMA-PC-DISK USER
    
    AS I MENTIONED ABOVE (41.48), THERE MIGHT BE SOME PROBLEMS TO RUN
    THE ADAPTER WITH 74LS TTL CHIPS. IN THE NEW CONFIG. WITH 74HCT CHIPS
    THE WHOLE THING WORKS PROPERLY. GOOD LUCK TO ALL, WHO WANT TO BUILD
    IT TOO. IT'S A REARLY CHEEP AND RELIABLE HARDDISK FOR THE ATARI.
    
    REGARDS ROLAND.

Hi,

	I would very much like to build this interface, but have not got
the original magazine and don't speak German (its next after French....which
is a necessity since I live in France!).

	Could someone possibly mail me a copy of the circuit board
layout, components and an English (or French) precis of the project.....I know
a number of you have implemented this design and succeeded...any info would
be appreciated....Nigel Deighton @VBE.
	Thanks,
	Nigel

    
    Yippee 64MB online and working.
    
    It took me 3 days to sort out my problems, but now she is working
    a treat. Made up the OMTI interface from veroboard but had problems
    with the decoupling, so I decided to remake said board. When I tried
    to format the drive it kept bombing back to the desktop, found out
    I hadn't selected the drive, once this problem was overcome tried
    to format again, and off it went, problems solved, or so I thought.
    
    When I tried to use the partitioner it couldn't see any cylinders,
    came back with cylinders available= -3 (hit head on wall), found
    out that the inputs from the Atari were sitting at 1 volt, changed
    the chip, now outputs to the OMTI were Oscillating. And if you used
    the formatter and pertitioner it came back and said that there was
    9897654345 cylinders available to partition, WOW, but if you tried
    to do anything it would corrupt. Changed chip again, and pu an HCT
    version in, formats ok but comes back with -3 when using the
    partitioner. Removed pins 2 and 3 of the 74HCT08 and shorted them
    out, this is only used as a buffer, and is a tech tip. Still no
    luck. Swopped all the chips for HCT types and shortened the cable
    from the Atari to 30 cm and hey presto it works.
    
    Found a problem with the partitioner, I had 1021 cylinders available
    to partition, so I divided it by 4 and put these Nos. in to partition
    each drive. Could only see 2.9MB per partition, found out that if
    you go over 16MB it screws up, put in 230 cylinders per partition
    and there it is 16MB per partition.  64 MB ONLINE YIPEE.
    
    It was worth all the effort, but if anybody is doing the upgrade
    and has any probs let me know, and I'll help if I can.
    
    I would like to thank Pat Keane for his help in this little project.
    
    Regards Peter.
     

    Hello Pat,
    	I would be grateful if you could send me a copy of the german
    article on hard discs and interfacing, and any related info. If
    you have had any trouble with translations I know a german ST user
    who would do a translation for me.
    
    Roger Lane @BIO

    Does anyone know if there is (and what it is) a standard (or more than
    one :-) for "external" SCSI connectors? That is not the connectors used
    on the controllers/drives but the connectors one would put on the Disk
    enclosure for cabling between disks and computer.
    
    	Ray 

    Macintoshen use 50-pin Centronics connectors (like a parallel printer
    connector). But I've also seen 'D' style connectors (like a serial
    connector) used...
    				- HBM

    With the advent of RZ23 disks in the VAXstation 3100 thoughts of trying
    to use one as a replacement for my 20Mb Supra disk have been rattling
    around in my brain. Perhaps this is completely harebrained, I don't
    know. Does anyone know if the Supra (Miniscribe) disk is ST506 or SCSI?
    
    If it is SCSI then I would assume that I could just interchange the
    mechanisms and be off and running (with 5 times more space!). If it
    is not then so much for that idea. Do we make any cheap ST506 drives
    in a half-height 3 1/2" form factor?
    
    Dan

    All (all the ones I know of anyway) ST hard disk "manufacturers" (for
    the most part they are just putting together components and adding
    there software) make/use a small circuit board that converts the
    ST DMA port into a SCSI port. Therefore it should be as simple as
    removing the HD and the SCSI-to-ST506 disk controller and connecting
    the RZ23 to the DMA-to-SCSI adapter. In fact why not leave the
    original mechanism in place and connect the RZ23 in parallel on
    the SCSI bus (you can have up to 7 devices on the SCSI bus). Just
    make sure you set the SCSI IDs different on the RZ23 and the
    SCSI-to-ST506 controller.
    
    	Ray

        While the RZ23 is a SCSI device, I'm not sure the microcode will
        work on a system that is not a PMAX or a PVAX.  I would suggest
        you try it before you purchase one.
        
        I say the above based on witnessing versions of the microcode
        that would work on one system and not the other.  At this time
        the RZ23 microcode supports both PVAX and PMAX.
        
        Bob

Or howabout another hairbrained idea?  Putting the TZ30 streaming tape SCSI 
drive on the ST and writing a driver for it.  Uses TK50 cartridges and store 96
meg.

CHad

    re: TZ30
    
    If you want to write your own driver, it should work great :-)
    
    re: Supra
    
    I've hacked Supra 10's extensively. I would find it *very unlikely*
    that the Supra 20's didn't use Supra's DMA <-> SCSI adaptor. If you've
    got that, you should be able to put any SCSI device on the bus. Now,
    your only problem will be drivers/formatters. If the RZxx drives look
    like a Xebec or Adaptec device, you're okay. If not, the SCSI
    generic-type commands *may* work. In addition, you'll need the drive
    geometry of the RZxx drive...
    				- HBM

You should be able to unplug the Supra 20Meg and plug in an RZ23 without
any (hardware) problems.  When you "format" the disk, play around until
you get something that works (you can't harm the drive by incorrectly
formatting it).

Martin. (who still has a Supra 30Meg for sale).

    For more information about my request note 41.53.
    My mail node is either PRSPSU::CAO 
                    or     PRSPSU::MRGATE::"A1::CAO"
                    or     CAO @A1 @MRGATE @PRSPSU @VAXMAIL
                    or     CAO @PRSPSU @VAXMAIL
    
    
    Thanks for the rapid answer.

    Has anyone ever attempted to beef up the power supply in the SH204
    so that a bigger drive can be connected to it?
    
    Any power supply guru's know if drawing a surge of 2.6 Amps on a
    power supply rated at 2.0 Amps will kill the power supply? I suppose
    it probably depends on the design, but I thought it was worth asking.
    
    	Ray

    
>    Any power supply guru's know if drawing a surge of 2.6 Amps on a
>    power supply rated at 2.0 Amps will kill the power supply? I suppose
>    it probably depends on the design, but I thought it was worth asking.
 

	Probably not.  Depends on how long the surge is.  The voltage
	might drop out of regulation (below spec) while the current
	draw is too high.  The worst case is that the voltage will drop
	enough that the disk won't be able to spin up properly - which
	only extends the surge time.  This is unlikely to happen 'cause
	the power supply can probably supply a little more than the
	spec says it can and the disk will probably draw a little less
	surge than its spec says.  

	chris

                   WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING 
                   
    I HAVE JUST RECEIVED 4 C'T PCB'S FROM GERMANY, HAVING WAITED SINCE
    DECEMBER FOR THEM ! HAVING BUILT THE FIRST, THE TIME CAME TO TEST IT
    OUT. ON POWER UP THE PSU S/C PROTECTION OPERATED I CHECKED THE
    RESISTANCE ACROSS THE 5,12 VOLTS TO 0V AND FOUND A DEAD SHORT BETWEEN
    5 AND 0 VOLTS. THE PROBLEM WAS TRACED TO THE ADDRESS ENABLE SOLDER
    LINKS ON THE NEW PCB'S THEY HAVE DRILLED AND PLATED THE HOLES. THE
    FIX IS CUT THE TRACK AROUND THE TWO SOLDER LINKS AND INSTALL A JUMPER
    BETWEEN PINS 22 AND 24 OF THE EDGE CONNECTOR.

    
    	Could someone please send me some information/instructions/plans
    to construct the SCSI interface described in this note? I have
    tried to contact several of the folks in this note, but have gotten
    no response. Perhaps some of them have gone their different ways
    in the past year, but I am still very interested.
    
    	Thanks,
    	John
    	(M/S ABO/F1)

    I have the same problem, i search the information and the plans
    to contruct this SCSI interface 
    
    	Thank for your help ,   michel

    Same story for me, but still hoping to connect my RD51 someday...
    
    All help is welcome,
    
    thanks, Ton.
    

Yet another voice crying in the wilderness.......I tried the personal mail
approach and the e-mail version of silence was the deafening reply!

Cheers,
	Nigel

     Hi all you would-be hard drivers
    
    If you want to hang your ST506 drive on a Ct interface talk to Trevor
    or myself. (UKCSSE::KEANE). If however you want to get modern and go
    SCSI have I got a deal for you !!!!!!
    
    In this weeks ATARI COLUMN in Computer mart, is a piece about a user
    group in Scotland that have produced a cheap SCSI card. They are
    selling it complete for 35 pounds, (against the Supra 100 pounds), and
    they will provide futher info. I have asked for more details and will
    post them here as I receive them. This interface is miminal, no DMA or 
    SCSI pass thru, no clocks, and no cables.
    
    Regards
    
    Pat Keane.

	--- Moved here by the moderator ---
    
Note 510.0                Hard Disk I/F details needed                No replies
WELSWS::FINNIS                                       13 lines  20-JUN-1989 06:28
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Guys,

	I wonder if you could help..

If any of you still have a copy of the circuit diagram , format program etc etc
for the Hard Disk Interface to the ST506 Drive, could you please send me a copy
..
	Also any details of SCSI projects would not go amiss..

		Thanks 

			Pete  << WELSWS::FINNIS >>
    

    I'd recommend using a SCSI solution over anything else... especially
    since the drives can be had for about $10 / megabyte now...
    				- hbm

    Hello,
    
    	I have been reading this note for some time and I have managed to
    	get a RD disc to experiment upon.  Can anyone give me any details
    	on the compoents and power supply I need to connect this drive
    	to my ATARI.
    
    	If I can get it to work I know quite a few people who would like
    	to do the same....
    
    	Hope you can help....
    
    Chris

    Me too.
    
    Also, is it possible to connect a hard card (built in controller) in 
    this way?
    
    
    Stephen.

    Re: .73
    
>    	I have been reading this note for some time and I have managed to
>    	get a RD disc to experiment upon.  Can anyone give me any details
>    	on the compoents and power supply I need to connect this drive
>    	to my ATARI.
    
    Materials:
    
    	1	Berkeley Microsystems or Supra ASCI <-> SCSI adaptor
    
    	1	SCSI <-> ST-506 controller. Either: Adaptec ACB-4000, -4070,
    		or Xebec S1410.
    				
    	1	Set ST-506 cables, which consist of a 34-pin data cable and
    		a 20-pin control cable.
    
    	1	SCSI cable, which is a 50-pin cable.
    
    	1	Floppy with driver software (I recommend Supra's, which I
    		believe is supplied free, or for a nominal charge ($25) 
    		with their adaptor)
    
    	1	Enclosure with power supply. These are available for PC
    		expansion, and any one that has >50W power supply should 
    		do just fine. The power supply will need three power
   	 	connectors, one for the disk, one for the adaptor, and one
    		for the controller. If the power supply doesn't have enough
    		connectors, obtain power-supply Y-cables.
    
    		Assorted screws, nuts, pc board spacers, cardboard (to put 
    		underneath pc boards) etc.
    
    Procedure:
    
    We'll start by hooking everything up and testing it without mounting it
    in the box (If we try to mount it in the box first, Cthulhu will punish
    us for our arrogance). 
    
    Strap the RD53 for unit 0 (it probably shipped that way). Connect the
    disk controller to the disk drive using the disk cables. Always use the
    stripe on the cable to indicate pin 1. Strap the controller for
    controller 0 (again, they usually ship this way). Connect the
    controller the the SCSI adaptor using the SCSI cable.  Open the
    enclosure and connect the boards and the disk to the power supply. Now
    connect the SCSI adaptor to the ST using the supplied cable.
    
    Power up the enclosure (be sure not to touch the exposed power-supply
    components!). If the select light comes on on the RD53 and stays on,
    STOP! You have the cable on upside-down. Invert the cable on the RD53
    and try again.
    
    Once the drive spins up, turn on your ST and boot from the driver disk.
    Use the formatting program to format your drive. You'll have to select
    controller and disk type from the menus (the disk type _will not_ be
    listed as 'RD53'; it will be listed under the manufacturer's
    designation). If you can't find your drive, don't panic; most
    formatters will let you manually enter the drive geometry (which, for
    RD53's, can be found in the Macintosh conference under the 'roll your
    own' topic). Select SCSI 0, unit 0. Attempt to format the drive.
    
    If the drive won't format, check for unit/controller straps, and make
    sure SCSI termination is installed on the controller, and drive
    termination is installed on the drive.
    
    If the drive formats, park it using the park utility, reboot and
    attempt to read & write the drive. If you can do that, use the park
    utility to park the drive, and shut down the ST. Power down the
    enclosure.
    
    Now mount the disk in the enclosure (there should be rails). Make sure
    you don't let any of the screws contact the board on the drive! ( :-{ )
    Use a piece of cardboard to cover the drive electronics. Using the
    screws and the PC board spacers, mount the controller and adaptor
    boards on top of the disk drive.
    
    Make sure the drive still works (Cthulhu again). 
    
    When it works, button it up, you're finished. Using the Supra software,
    you can also set up the RD53 as your boot device (a good idea).
    
    					- hbm
    

    Thanks for the information hbm 
    
    Just a few points about power supply...
    
    Connectiong the RD53 what are the power points or is this information
    in another conf ???
    
    
    Thanks again...
    
    Cheers,
    
    
    Chris (who cant wait to use one)

    Re: .76
    
>    Connectiong the RD53 what are the power points or is this information
>    in another conf ???
    
    On the RD53 and _every_ 5.25" Winchester I've ever seen, the power
    connector is an industry-standard 4-pin Molex socket. The power
    supply will terminate with the appropriate plug (unless it's from the
    Dark Ages).
    				- hbm
    

    
    i have got a seagate 225 up through adaptec st 506 interface.
    there was a major gotcha though
    the box i ordered from a cut rate outfit called Hardtimes in san jose
    had  two problems that people should pay attention to.
    First, they surplused sanyo floppy/hard drive boxes with fuse,
    supply [2amp regulator]. This supply cannot handle the surge
    needed to power up a drive. i went to the local electronic store
    and bought a 6amp regulator that has a case ground figured out
    where the in/out/grd were and put it in . it has been very nice
    ever since and i am about to hook up another drive and let you
    know how that is. A third full height drive will have a dif one.
    Second tricky little  problem was the reason the box went surplus.
    the yellow 12v standard position and 5v red wires were reversed in
    the harness.  As a note when you look at the connector carefully
    you should see pin one thru four marked on it. pin one =12volts
    that is yellow. two blacks are ground returns 2=12v return and
    3=5v return then the red=5volts is at pin 4. DO NOT mix these up
    your drive may live but the controller will not. If in doubt
    find out!!!  You'll be better off with a low level formatter.
    My high level formatter got lost often. If i were you i would
    connect 34 pin cables in parellel to get ready for more drives.
    good luck.
    kp.

    Hi, Phil Walker @NRC (warrington) here, I am very interested in
    adding a hard disk to my Mega2. Will some kind person send me details
    of the Atari to IBM slot i/f from Germany. The Conroy Atari to SCSI
    i/f sounds interesting as well, has anyone any details? Looking
    forward to hearing something, yours Phil.
    mail stop NLC-16, Phone 851 3668. 
    

I've been using the Dave Conroy design.

	- one nice thing I've found is that the 5380-based adaptor is
	compatible with the fast modern SCSI drives.  I'm using a SCSI
	drive now that does NOT work with my Atari DMA to SCSI adaptor,
	but works great with Dave's.

	- one bad thing about it is that it's incompatible with the
	Atari adaptor , and therefore you must boot from floppy, and you
	have to use a special driver.  You can't use the SUPRA software
	or anybody else's.

	- one bad (or good, depending) thing about the driver is that
	the partitioning and drive configuration is hard-coded in the
	driver sources.  You need to set up some tables in the driver
	and re-compile it to use it on any specific SCSI drive.  Setting
	up the tables requires that you understand the layout of the
	MSDOS file system on the disk.  You may need an MSDOS internals
	book to figure this out.

Send me mail and I'll photocopy the schematics for you and mail you the
driver, formatter, and exerciser sources.

    HI 
    Have you spoken to Keith Powell also of Warrington, 
    But Dont say Trevor at Leeds said so
    
    Regards Trevor

    Hi everybody,
    
    As I plan to connect a SEAGATE ST296N to my 1040 ,could one of these
    gurus please tell me about if this is possible. Someone wrote here that
    64 MB is the limit. Is this true? 
    If someone's handy of this mentioned CT-article, I would appreciate  
    getting supplied with it (electronical form). Don't mind if it's still 
    in the original german form, I'm german!!
    Thanks for any advice and information !!
    
    Cheers,
      Michael.
    

>    As I plan to connect a SEAGATE ST296N to my 1040 ,could one of these
>    gurus please tell me about if this is possible. Someone wrote here that

The N suffix indicates that this is a SCSI drive (with single a 50-pin
connector).  Please correct me if this is not the case.

>    64 MB is the limit. Is this true? 

Totally false, the limit is more like 224MB (Partitions C-P all 16MB
each), and twice that using TOS 1.4.

To attach this drive, you need the following components:

	Atari DMA to SCSI host adaptor
	Software
	Drive
	Power supply
	Cables

I can't say for sure, since I haven't seen the article, but I think the
CT article is for attaching an ST-506 type drive (two edge connectors, 1
20-pin and 1 34 pin) using an IBM PC compatible disk controller.  Since
you have a SCSI drive (I think), this does not apply in your case.

Best bets are:
	- ICD host adaptor with ICD software (about $100 U.S.)
	- Supra host adaptor with Supra software (about the same)
	- Dave Conroy's home brew host adaptor, compile your own software 
		(Only if you are driver literate!  I have the plans and
		the MWC sources for the driver software)
	- Atari host adaptor with Supra software.

Dave's adaptor consists of an NCR 5380 SCSI chip, a high-speed PAL, a
bidrectionbal buffer, and two latches.  The hardware is NOT compatible
with Atari, ICD, or Supra, and their software cannot be used.  The
software that comes with it is primitive but it works.  The drive type,
size, and partitioning information is HARD CODED in the driver, so
unless you use the same disk I do, you will have to be able to
understand the tables, including comp[uting the correct BPB values, and
recompile it.

    Re: .83
    
>>    64 MB is the limit. Is this true? 
>
>Totally false, the limit is more like 224MB (Partitions C-P all 16MB
>each), and twice that using TOS 1.4.
    
    Actually, you're both right.
    
    Atari's driver software only permits 4 partitions / drive [under TOS
    <1.4, at least]. Supra's and ICD's drivers do not have this problem.
    				- hbm
    
    

    re:		<<< Note 41.82 by GYPSC::GIHR >>>
    
    
    Hi Michael,
    
    you heard of GE-SOFT Computersysteme in Bonn (W.Germany)? They offer
    SCSI controller boards and SCSI Disks and complete HD-Sets (Controller
    & Drives) for the ST. 
    
    You can find ads of this company (for example) in '68000er ST-Magazin'
    (Markt&Technik Verlag), 11/89, S. 103:
    
    ...
    	- GE-MEGADRIVE CONTROLLER III (SCSI-Controller)
    	  (Incl. Driver SW & programms for backup &  cache)	DM 248,-
    
    	- GE-MEGADRIVE CONTROLLER III
    	  (w/o DMA Cabel and SW)				DM 198,-
    ...
    
    In this ad, they say, that by means of the above mentioned GE-MEGADRIVE
    CONTROLLER III you can connect all SCSI hard disks and SCSI removeable
    disks to an ATARI ST without any problems. Actually they also say that
    their GE MEGADRIVE HD's up to 85 MB are Seagate Drives. More:
    
    	-  3.8 Mbit/s transfer rate
    	-  Drive SW 100% AHDI comaptible
    	-  up to 14 partitions
    	-  DMA bus 'durchgeschleift' (don't know how to tanslate)
                   and buffered
    	-  1 year Garantie
    
    (I don't get anything from GE-Soft for putting this here. But I think
    it's interesting.)
    
    As far as I know, the c't article you mentioned refers to the c't
    adapter card (and driver SW) for the ST, to connect ST-506 compatible
    hard disks (e.g. ST-225, ST-251 or DEC RD52-54). But as Jeff already
    said, your disk seems to be a SCSI drive.
    
    
    Regards. / Hilmar.
    
    
    P.S.: GE-SOFT Computer-Systeme mbH, Graurheindorfer Str. 69, D-5300
          Bonn 1, Tel. 0228/694221.

    
    I am building the Atari to PC/XT adaptor, but I am having trouble
    sourcing an OMTI controller.  Can anyone help with a UK supplier,
    or perhaps someone out there intended to build the interface and
    never completed it ?
    
    I know I should be thinking about using a SCSI drive, but I already
    have most of the components including an RD52 and this is too cheap to
    resist !
    
    All help gratefully received.
    
    
    -Graham.
    

    Have you (or anyone) tried the DMA/SCSI host Board from Third Coast
    Technologies. It cost 100 pounds and they say it controls up to eight
    SCSI Hard Drives or ST506 IBM Compatable drives. Is the RD5x ST506
    IBM Compatable? As I see it using this in place of the OMTI will
    save having to make the little adaptor between ST and OMTI. Third
    Coast may also supply cabling. I'm not sure though. Their telephone
    number is 0257-434442. They advertise in most of the ST mags.
    ...Howard.

Do you by any chance have the address for Third Coast Technologies so people
here in the states can send for literature on the board? I did not see them
listed in START (the only ST mag I get).

  Thanks,

	Ray

    Third Coast Address is:
    
    Third Coast Technologies,
    Unit 8,
    Bradley Hall Trading Estate,
    Standish,
    Wigan   WN6 0XQ,
    England.
    
    Now for the not so good bit. Their advert says:
    
    "DMA/SCSI Host Boards - allows connection of up to 8 SCSI Hard Drives
    or ST506 IBM Compatable drives, comes complete with clock DMA in
    and out over 50 copyright commercial hard drive utilities...94.99
    pounds."        This includes controller to ST cable.
    
    
    "Complete kit including all the above with controller MFM or RLL
    OMTI including cable and mounting brackets for controller ....199.99
    pounds."
    
    I phoned them and for a ST506 drive you need the second option.
    
    ...howard
    
    

    Alright,
    
    	I've read through 41 of the possible 89 points in this section, You
    all had me going there for awhile... first, I thought I understood just
    what everybody was saying, then, you lost me, then you got me again,
    then you lost me.... so, I guess I've just given up getting lost and
    found, and will ask a more direct question...
    
    I am able to get ahold of an RD51 at no price..... What do I need to
    get this sucker to attach to my 520ST... (besides power supply), and
    then, so that I don't have to ask this question when I get to this
    point. What do I need to format it with. Can anybody send me stuff,
    write me, and tell me what and how to do this. What do I need etc?
    
    I drowning in a sea of DSDD's and I want to get out....
    
    
    Hope for a quick reply,
    
    Swaff -)
    

You need more than an RD51 for a 'sea of dsdd'.  RD51 = 10 meg (no?) == 12 dsdd

You need some sort of Atari SCSI adapter and an ST506 -- SCSI adapter like
the ADapatek boards.

Chad

    
    re .90
    
    I've got a RD connected to my Atari via BMS100/Adaptec-C which is
    two boards sandwich style. The one is a interface to convert
    Atari's ASCI-bus to SCSI, the other is a controller which handles
    SCSI inputs and drives up to two ST505 HDs (a RD is ST506 standard).
    The boards have exactly the same dimension than the drive, so you
    may assemble them on top of the drive. They came for about $280.-
    two years ago here in Germany. Probably they're now a lot cheaper,
    specially in the states.
    The next thing you need is software to format and partition the
    HD. Usually this software also checks for bad blocks and marks them
    in the FAT. Also it makes the drive bootable.
    One of those pieces of SW is AHDI from Atari. Others, which don't
    cost much, are even better because you may install up to 14 partitions
    (logical drives with up to 32MB) per harddisk (like CBHDI).
                   
    Bernd
    

    Thanks to all that replied to my inquiry for help.... I tried to get
    the adaptec-c modules here in Canada, but, the major distributor told
    me to get ahold of I.C.D. in the States. So, I thought hey, why not
    call the Atari dealears here in Canada, and see how much a new HD will
    cost from Atari.....
    
    The prices are..
    
    	30 mg HD (Megafile30)  $699.00 Canadian.
    	60 mg HD (Megafile60)  $1149.00 Canadian.
    
    ..... I guess my question now is, are they any cheaper in the States,
    and, if so, How much, and can I order them through the mail?
    
    Hopefull waiting for a quick reply, (don't have much money to spend)
    
    
    Swaff -)
    

    I've been looking at getting a hard drive too, and a local Atari dealer
    here in the metro-Detroit area is selling them for $495 for the
    megafile 30 (U.S. currency).  This seems to be a good price.  They were
    out of stock when I called, but expect a shipment in the next few days.
    
    Jim Allbery
    

You have a simple problem with a simple solution.  Since you have a
power supply and an RD51, I assume you also have the cabinet for them. 
I will spare you the technical talk about part numbers and all that. 
Here's my advice:

1. Call Toad Computers in Annapolis MD and order a "ICD Host & MFM
Controller Kit".  ($199.00 U.S.)  Ask if this kit includes the
"Controller to Hard Disk" and "Host Adaptor to Controller" cables.  If
not, order these also ($10.00 U.S. each).  Add 4% if using a credit card.

2. Wait for it to arrive.

3. Hook it all up.

4. Use the ICD software (comes with the host adaptor) to format,
partition, and initialize the drive.

Toad Computer order line is (800) 448-TOAD  (I bet that this is U.S. Only)
Toad Computer regular telephone (301) 544-6943.

The ICD software is slick - it uses some fancy cache and delayed write
techniques to acheive very good performance.  I also recommend a Rainbow
TOS upgrade for really fast hard disk performance.  The combination of
Rainbow TOS + ICD hard disk software is quite impressive.

I got all this information from the TOAD advertisment in "Current
Notes".  I haven't actually done business with them myself, but I've
never heard anything bad.  I use the ICD+Ranbow TOS combination on one
of my systems, so I am familiar with how it goes together.

Now, for some technical comments:

While I recommend ICD for host adaptor and software with no
reservations, I have no experience with the "OMTI 5320 MFM Hard Disk
Controller" that you will get with this package.  I have always used
the "Adaptek 4000" (or 4010, or 4000A) controllers when building ST506
compatible hard disk systems.  (Does the same thing.)  I know Adaptek's
reputation in disk controllers is very good.  I don't know about OMTI. 
Since the OMTI price seems to be slightly higher than the usual Adaptek
price, once can assume that Toad knows what they are doing by selling
OMTI over Adaptek. I have seen the Adaptek controller "surplus" for as
low as $65, and it frequently shows up in the $85-$120 range.  As part
of this package, the OMTI is costing you $100.  To me, an extra $10-$15
is not that bad a price for the convienence of one-stop shopping.

    
    As far as I understood, the SH204 contains an ACSI - SCSI adapter.
    It should be therefore possible to connect a SCSI Drive (for example 
    Seagate 157N or 177N) to the original ACSI-SCSI host adapter.
    Right ? Or are there any hidden pitfalls ?
    							Matthias

    I have just come across the ICDUTILS.ARC and agree with the comment
    that these utilities are slick. However, I have the OMTI controller
    and have not been able to get the ICD stuff to work at all. I think
    this might be a case that the right controller information is not 
    present in the datafile (can't remember the name) which contains disk
    and controller information. What controller info should I enter for
    the OMTI ?
    
    Is it reasonable to think that having put the info in all will be well?
    or do the ICD definitely not like OMTI stuff ??
    
    
    Thanks for the help
    
    Jonathan

    Does anyone know.....
    
    I have an OMTI controller, that I want to attach to an RD53.
    Do I need to set the drive number on the 53 - and if so how?
    
    I have no info on the omti board or on the RD53....
    
    Jon.
    

There are jumpers on the back with right angle bend in them, on the
component side of the board, a group of about 6.  An RD53 usually has
two together on the right hand side of the group with jumpers inserted,
and a third somewhere else.  You need to select unit 0, which will mean
moving the third one all the way to the right, so that there are three
together on the right hand side of the group.  If you look close,you will
see numbers "1", "2", "3", and "4".  Number "1" is unit 0.

    Greetings,
    
    After a lot of blood, sweat, and tears, here is the definative
    description of how to interface an RZ23 drive to the ST....
    
    1) Get yourself a DMA -> SCSI interface. I got the IDC board and
       it works fine - it also has an onboard clock which gives your
       St the time on boot up. Also get a PSU and connecting cables.
    
    2) The RZ23 will not spin up on power up by default. It expects
       a SCSI START/STOP UNIT command, which I suspect the majority
       of ST SCSI controllers/software don't do (In fact the IDC
       software includes a fix for QUANTUM drives which also expect
       this. Perhaps it could be hacked to look for RZ23's instead?)
       There are two ways of configuring the drive to spin up on 
       power up - both involve you connecting it up to a PVAX!
    
       Method 1. Connect drive, set unique SCSI ID, boot system,
                 find out drive name (DKxn00 where x is the SCSI
                 controller and n is the SCSI number of the drive).
                 There is a macro program that I will post as a reply
                 to this note, which you will need to edit so that it
                 contains the drive name as calculated above. Link and
                 run it. It sets a bit on the drive to tell it to spin
                 up on power up - this bit is preserved over power 
                 down so this (and the following) procedure only needs
                 to be performed once!
    
        Method 2 See the reply to this note. It is similar to above,
                 but doesnt involve booting VMS.
    
    Take configured RZ and plug into DMA->SCSI board. Give it a unique
    SCSI number (dont use 6 on the IDC setup, this is used for the clock!)
    The SCSI ID is set up using jumpers E1-3.  You will also need to
    add a jumper to E4, to allow reformatting of the drive. There are
    3 pins here, holding the drive with the power input to the bottom
    left put a jumper over the middle and right pins. No jumper is provided
    but you can reuse one of the SCSI jumpers as long as you didn't
    want to use unit 7!
    
    Thats the difficult bits done! The IDCFMT will take care of the
    rest. It gets all drive geometry data from the embedded SCSi controller
    so there is no need to enter this data or hack data files as you
    need to do for ST506 types. You will get 7 partitions of 14.98 Mb!
    
    Now where was that spare RZ55........-)
    
    Jon.
     

    Here is Method 1. 
    
    MACRO program care of the Amiga conference!!!
    
    
                 <<< BOMBE::DISK_NOTES$LIBRARY:[000000]AMIGA.NOTE;1 >>>
                                -< AMIGA NOTES >-
================================================================================
Note 3183.4                           rz23                               4 of 23
WJG::GUINEAU "Quantum Reality"                      273 lines   6-DEC-1989 13:02
          -< VAX MACRO program to enable power on spinup for RZ22/23 >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

             <<< BOMBE::DISK_NOTES$LIBRARY:[000000]AMIGA.NOTE;1 >>>
                                -< AMIGA NOTES >-
================================================================================
Note 2877.21                   RZ22/23 WITH G.V.P.                      21 of 35
RLAV::LITTLE "Todd Little, NYA SWS, 323-4475"       266 lines  16-SEP-1989 21:42
                                  -< SPE.MAR >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	.TITLE	spe - Spin up enable for RZ23 disk drives
	.IDENT	/x01.00/
 
;++
; FACILITY: [~tbs~]
; 
; FUNCTIONAL DESCRIPTION:
; 
;	 This routine enables spin up on power up for RZ23 drives.  It uses the
;	 GKDRIVER generic SCSI port interface to send the appropriate command
;	 directly to the device.
;                                                
; ENVIRONMENT: VMS V5.3 with support for generic SCSI devices
; 
; AUTHOR: Todd Little, CREATION-DATE: 11-Sep-1989
; 
; MODIFIED BY: 
; 
;--
;
	.SUBTITLE DECLARATIONS
 
 
; OWN STORAGE:
 
ms_cmd:
	.byte	^x15		; opcode - MODE_SELECT
	.byte	1		; flags - Save Parameters
	.byte	0		; reserved
	.byte	0		; reserved
	.byte	ms_data_len	; parameter list length
	.byte	0		; control byte

ms_cmd_len = .-ms_cmd

;
; parameter list for the MODE_SELECT
;
ms_data:
;
; Mode Sense/Select header
;
	.byte	0		; reserved
	.byte	0		; medium type (direct access)
	.byte	0		; reserved
	.byte	8		; block descriptor length
;
; Block Descriptor
;
	.byte	0		; density code
	.byte	3		; number of blocks (MSB)
	.byte	^x20		;        "
	.byte	^x40		;        "         (LSB)
	.byte	0		; reserved
	.byte	0		; block length (MSB)
	.byte	2		;       "
	.byte	0		;       "      (LSB)

;
; Contents of page 25h
;
	.byte	^x25		; page code
	.byte	^X17		; length
	.byte	0		; bit 0 means spin up disable
	.byte	0[22]		; remaining 22 bytes reserved

ms_data_len = .-ms_data

;
; SCSI descriptors for GKDRIVER IO$_DIAGNOSE functions
;
ms_desc:
	.long		1		; opcode - pass-through
	.long		0		; flags
	.address	ms_cmd		; address of command buffer
	.long		ms_cmd_len	; length of SCSI command
	.address	ms_data		; address of data buffer
	.long		ms_data_len	; length of data buffer
	.long		0		; SCSI pad length
	.long		0		; phase change timeout
	.long		0		; disconnect timeout
	.long		0[6]		; reserved

ms_desc_len = .-ms_desc


tur_cmd:
	.byte	0		; opcode - TEST UNIT READY
	.byte	0		; LUN and reserved
	.byte	0		; reserved
	.byte	0		; reserved
	.byte	0		; reserved
	.byte	0		; control byte

tur_cmd_len = .-tur_cmd

tur_desc:
	.long		1		; opcode - pass-through
	.long		0		; flags
	.address	tur_cmd		; address of command buffer
	.long		tur_cmd_len	; length of SCSI command
	.long		0		; address of data
	.long		0		; length of data buffer
	.long		0		; SCSI pad length
	.long		0		; phase change timeout
	.long		0		; disconnect timeout
	.long		0[6]		; reserved

tur_desc_len = .-tur_desc

ssu_cmd:
	.byte	^x1b		; opcode - START_STOP_UNIT
	.byte	0		; 1 - return immed, 0 return after spin up
	.byte	0		; reserved
	.byte	0		; reserved
	.byte	1		; 0 - stop unit, 1 start unit
	.byte	0		; control byte

ssu_cmd_len = .-ssu_cmd

ssu_desc:
	.long		1		; opcode - pass-through
	.long		0		; flags
	.address	ssu_cmd		; address of command buffer
	.long		ssu_cmd_len	; length of SCSI command
	.long		0		; address of data buffer
	.long		0		; length of data buffer
	.long		0		; SCSI pad length
	.long		0		; phase change timeout
	.long		0		; disconnect timeout
	.long		0[6]		; reserved

ssu_desc_len = .-ssu_desc

devnam:	.ascid	/GKB100/		; SCSI unit 1 on second SCSI bus

chan:	.blkw	1		; channel number
iosb:	.blkw	4		; I/O status block

 

	.SUBTITLE Main routine
 
;++
; FUNCTIONAL DESCRIPTION:
; 
;	 [~tbs~]
; 
; CALLING SEQUENCE:
; 
;	 [~tbs~]
; 
; INPUT PARAMETERS:
; 
;	 [~tbs~]
; 
; IMPLICIT INPUTS:
; 
;	 [~tbs~]
; 
; OUTPUT PARAMETERS:
; 
;	 [~tbs~]
; 
; IMPLICIT OUTPUTS:
; 
;	 [~tbs~]
; 
; COMPLETION CODES:
; 
;	 [~tbs~]
; 
; SIDE EFFECTS:
; 
;	 [~tbs~]
; 
;--
;
	.ENTRY	spe,0
	$assign_s -
		devnam = devnam, -
		chan   = chan
	blbs	r0,1$				; go on if no error
	pushl	r0
	calls	#1,g^lib$signal			; otherwise, signal the error

1$:
	$qiow_s -				; issue the SCSI command
		chan   = chan, -
		efn    = #1, -
		func   = #IO$_DIAGNOSE, -
		iosb   = iosb, -
		p1     = tur_desc, -
		p2     = #tur_desc_len
	blbs	r0,2$				; go on if no error
	pushl	r0
	calls	#1,g^lib$signal			; otherwise, signal error
2$:	blbs	iosb,3$				; check the IOSB
	movzwl	iosb,-(sp)
	calls	#1,g^lib$signal			; signal any IOSB errors
3$:

	$qiow_s -				; issue the SCSI command
		chan   = chan, -
		efn    = #1, -
		func   = #IO$_DIAGNOSE, -
		iosb   = iosb, -
		p1     = tur_desc, -
		p2     = #tur_desc_len
	blbs	r0,4$				; go on if no error
	pushl	r0
	calls	#1,g^lib$signal			; otherwise, signal error
4$:	blbs	iosb,5$				; check the IOSB
	movzwl	iosb,-(sp)
	calls	#1,g^lib$signal			; signal any IOSB errors
5$:
	$qiow_s -				; issue the SCSI command
		chan   = chan, -
		efn    = #1, -
		func   = #IO$_DIAGNOSE, -
		iosb   = iosb, -
		p1     = ssu_desc, -
		p2     = #ssu_desc_len
	blbs	r0,6$				; go on if no error
	pushl	r0
	calls	#1,g^lib$signal			; otherwise, signal error
6$:	blbs	iosb,7$				; check the IOSB
	movzwl	iosb,-(sp)
	calls	#1,g^lib$signal			; signal any IOSB errors
7$:

	$qiow_s -				; issue the SCSI command
		chan   = chan, -
		efn    = #1, -
		func   = #IO$_DIAGNOSE, -
		iosb   = iosb, -
		p1     = tur_desc, -
		p2     = #tur_desc_len
	blbs	r0,8$				; go on if no error
	pushl	r0
	calls	#1,g^lib$signal			; otherwise, signal error
8$:	blbs	iosb,9$				; check the IOSB
	movzwl	iosb,-(sp)
	calls	#1,g^lib$signal			; signal any IOSB errors
9$:

	$qiow_s -				; issue the SCSI command
		chan   = chan, -
		efn    = #1, -
		func   = #IO$_DIAGNOSE, -
		iosb   = iosb, -
		p1     = ms_desc, -
		p2     = #ms_desc_len
	blbs	r0,10$				; go on if no error
	pushl	r0
	calls	#1,g^lib$signal			; otherwise, signal error
10$:	blbs	iosb,11$			; check the IOSB
	movzwl	iosb,-(sp)
	calls	#1,g^lib$signal			; signal any IOSB errors
11$:

	movzbl	iosb+7,r0
	$exit_s -
		code   = r0
	.END	spe
    

    Here is Method 2.
    
             <<< SSAG::DISK$ARCH2:[ARCHFILES.LOOK.REVIEW]ASK_SSAG.NOTE;1 >>>
                    -< Ask the Storage Architecture Group >-
================================================================================
Note 429.24              SCSI Reselection phase and RZ23                24 of 25
JACOB::HOUSE "Kenny - MLO5-2/B6 - DTN 223-6720"      39 lines  21-MAR-1990 05:45
             -< PVAX ROMs know about spinning up drives (or not) >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    RE: setting and clearing the RZ22/23 DSP (disable spinup at power-on)
        bit...
    
    If you've got a PVAX with the SCSI-SCSI storage option, there's a
    sneaky trick in the ROMs that'll let you change the DSP (disable spinup
    at power-on) bit.  You need one of those MMJ loopback connectors that
    look like a red spoon;  that gets you into "field service" mode where
    you get to do dangerous things.
    
    Put the spoon in, and power on the unit.  At the console prompt, type
    "T 73" to start the Tape Key Utility.  Don't worry about the name,
    'cause it's only the magic inside this code we want to get.  Answer the
    questions about which port and which ID the drive is set for.  I can't
    remember whether the code allows you to specify a LUN (logical unit),
    but if the question comes up, answer that one too.  When the "RUsure"
    question comes up, answer "41000001" -- this is part of the strong magic
    I alluded to before.
    
    The code will do a MODE SENSE, then turn around and issue a MODE SELECT
    with the DSP bit clear.  Ultimately, the code will report an error, but
    don't worry:  it's complaining that the device isn't a tape (remember
    this used to be a tape key utility?).
    
    Take out the spoon and cycle power again to get out of field service
    mode.  No sense aggravating the gods by leaving too many privileges on.
    
    That should do it.  The drive should spin up at power on now.
    
    If you want to get things back the way they were, perform all the above
    steps but answer "42000001" to "RUsure."  That'll set the DSP bit.
    
    Having said all that...  The reason we didn't want the RZs spinning up
    at power-on was that the current surge of three drives spinning up
    simultaneously was too much for the PVAX power supply.  Software took
    it upon itself to bring these drives up one-at-a-time.
    
    Hope this helps,
    
    -- Kenny House

    
    
    How about using a TK50 or TZK50 as backup device for the drives?
    What has do be done to connect such a drive and which software is
    needed (maybe already available somewhere in the net)?
    
    Bernd
    

You could have asked...I've been using the RZ23 on the Atari for months now.

My problem, though, is that I cannot get it to work with the ICD host
adaptor, only the Dave Conroy adaptor.

    Re -1
    
    Aaaarghhhh... All that pain for nothing!!
    
    What problem do you get with the ICD adaptor then? Works fine for
    me!
    
    Jon.

Actually, your pain was very worthwhile to me!

- I hadn't yet figured out how to permanantly set the spin-up bit.  My
drive was already in this state, but I know of others that are not.  My
version of the DGC driver sends the start-up command at power-up, but if
I go to ICD, I will not have the luxury of sources.

- I didn't know about the E4 jumper.  In my system, without the E4
jumper, the ICD software just can't see the drive at all.

Can any (european) guy name a dealer who is willing to send by mail and is 
capable of selling the 'ICD Host & MFM Controller kit' including cables and
software?

I've got a 42 Mb drive, but still: can't find a dealer who's got a
controller for it ( apart from the original Atari SH205 controller )

Ton-who-likes-to-use-his-drive.

	Last week, I ordered the ICD host adapter and controller package from
 	Toad Computer, and an XT case and 150 watt power supply from Global
	Computronics (in Minnesota) - total cost, including shipping was just
 	under $300, and yesterday I took out (on property passes) two RD52's.  

	Last night, Jeff and I (well, mostly Jeff 8-) mounted everything
	(including the boards) with only needing to drill two holes (well 4,
	we messed up the first pair :^), and we were able to get one of the 
	drives working. (I need longer 20 and 34 pin cables to hook up the 
	second drive).  It took less than 2.5 hours and I'm an extremely happy
	camper right now.  Even with just one RD52 hooked up, 30 Meg is 
	something I've been dreaming about for a while now.  If I can just find
 	some longer cables, 60 megs will soon be a reality.

	Ready to become a serious Atari user,
	Dan

    My ICD host adapter took 3 weeks to arrive. (it probably came
    swimming).
    Assembly was not a big problem. Connected it to a ST251 (RD32),
    formatted the drive and ready!!
    
    However: every now and then the drive spins down thus loosing data (if
    it was writing). First I thought it needed cooling, but that doesn't
    solve the problem.
    Another feature: it sometimes needs an extra 'coldboot' to be
    recognised by the 1040.
    
    Does anyone know if this controller can spin the drive down?
    
    Ton-who's-got-now-40Meg-minus-corruptions.
    

Sounds like maybe the power supply is not sufficiant to handle the ST251. Check
the current rating on the power supplies 12v line and compare that to the
ST251 spec.

No, the controller can not spin down the ST251. As far as I know that is only
possible with embeded SCSI drives.

	Ray

I've got my other RD52 hooked up now (60 Meg!) but I have a couple of questions
about hard drives in general:

1) With the ICD software, I can have my system 'autoboot' from one of the HD.
   But, even with this working, I see the Atari checking my floppy drive to
   see if something is there.  Do I need to have a floppy disk in there?  It
   works (boots) without it, but takes a little longer I think (from checking
   many times to see if anything is there)

2) What is TOS error #65?  I'm running Neodesk, and I can't delete an empty
   folder from my 'boot' partition.  Is there any way of getting rid of it?

3) in the ICD software, is 'Zeroing a partition' the same thing as formatting
   a single partition?  Is this a way of 'defragging' a partition after all of
   the files are copied out of it?

Thanks,
Dan

> Do I need to have a floppy disk in there?
You actualy answered your own question...No you do not need a floppy in the
drive but it will take a long time to boot if you do not have one in the
drive. TOS is trying to check if the floppy in drive A: is bootable, when it
gets an error because of no disk it keeps retrying for a while until "it
decides that you realy are not going to put a disk in there". Bottom line is
pop a disk (any disk as long as it is not a "bootable game" disk) into drive
A: before turning on or resetting the ST. Actualy with my Mega (TOS 1.2) I
think it only checks the drive once on boot up, so it comes up quick even
without a disk, but thats not the case with TOS 1.0.

> What is TOS error #65?
	EINTRN	  -65L	GEMDOS internal error

> I'm running Neodesk, and I can't delete an empty folder
Sometimes when I "move" a folder(s) to another drive (ie: a copy and then
delete operation) NEODESK is able to delete all of the files in the folder but
when it goes to delete the folder it gets a TOS error and can't delete it.
Re-booting the ST and then deleting the folder has always worked for me.

> is 'Zeroing a partition' the same thing as formatting
No. Zeoring a partition does the equivelent of deleting all the files on the
partition, but it does it MUCH faster than dragging all of the files to the
trash.

> Is this a way of 'defragging' a partition after all of the files are copied
> out of it?
Well you can defragment a partition that way (save all the files, erase all
the files, copy all the files back), but that is realy SLOW and you have to
have hard disk space some where to put all those files temporarily. The best
thing to do is to get a copy of DLII or the program from Michtron (can't think
of the name of it) which do the defragmentation for you and do not require any
temporary disk space. Both programs will also check your file structure for
any problems.

DLII.ARC can be copied from OLDTMR::$1$DUA8:[WALLACE.PUBLIC.ST], if it isn't
there it will be momentarily (I'm copying it from another system as I type).

	Ray

>DLII.ARC can be copied from OLDTMR::$1$DUA8:[WALLACE.PUBLIC.ST], if it isn't
>there it will be momentarily (I'm copying it from another system as I type).

	I am getting file protection errors on that one, could you set
	it so I can get at it.
				 thanks
					Jim

Thanks Ray, for the answers.  I'll also check out DLII.

-Dan

    re. 110
    
    Thanks Ray.... my + 5 V powersupply appeared to crowbar every now and
    then, due to an old pot meter. Cleaning it did the job. 
    The drive spins like a cat now..
    
    Ton.
    

    After reading Pat's base note I looked through Computer Shopper (UK)
    to find a XT controller. There is one there "XT MFM 2xHDC" for 
    39 pounds. I phoned the company and they said it was ST506 compatable.
    So with the pseudo XT slot mentioned by Pat, is there any reason
    that this should not work with an RD drive. Ir's certainly cheap
    enough and available.
    ...Howard

    	Having just aquired an RD53,I would like to interface it to the
    Atari using the c't 5 chip interface and IBM pc xt controller.
    
    	I have looked around for the SCS 5520 controller but can't find
    one.
    	Is this the only controller that works,or can any xt hd
    controller be used,Others such as Western Digital and STII are freely
    available.
    
    	Failing this are there any other(cheap) options available.
    
    		Brian..

    Brian
    
    Sorry I did'nt call back re XT controller issues, I have a copy of
    instructions to convert the 5 chip to use the ST11, ASAP I will send it
    to you, If you have a fax number ALLIN1 it to me....
    
    Regards Trevor 

    Howard
    
    Look up the telephone number of MICROSNIPS in Liverpool, last time I
    picked one up it cost me about #2.50
    
    
    regards Trevor

    Hi there all you "Roll your owner's"
    
    A while back in the German C'T magazine, appeared an article describing
    how you could add a second drive onto your OMTI controller. All that
    was necessary was a second drive, a few bits of ribbon cable and some
    minor changes to the HDBIOS code (thanks to Peter Hilger for providing
    me this article). Well I made all the required changes as I thought
    they should be made using my rusty German to translate the article but
    have had no success.
    
    Has anyone managed to get two disks running off the OMTI controller ??
    How ?? Its so frustrating being so close yet so far 8'^(
    
    Jonathan

HI

I am about done with my dave conroy host adapter and will be hooking up an apple
mac (aka quantum) 40 meg scsi drive.  I need one more part,  A male DB19 pin
to plug into the ST DMA port.  Preferably one that is the kind you attach to
ribbon cable.

Any places in MA/NH for this part or Mail Order places that don't have a $25 min
order?

Thanks

Chad

PS: Active Electronics didn't believe such a part is available

(it is 19 pins, right?  I haven't looked recently to count them -- going from 
memory)

    
    
    
    Hi,
    
    Yes you are correct, it is a 19 pin min "D" . At the Atari shows in the
    UK is always a stand, that sells all sorts of plugs and cables, last
    time I was there I purchased a couple of plugs, I have just sold my
    spare to Howard!!. So I cant help you with supply of a plug
    unfortunately.
    
    Hope you find one easily!
    
    PJK

Last time I was at You-Do-It, they had dozens of them.  I have a spare
that I don't really need (yet) - you want it?  What will you give me for it?

Greetings,

	I try to connect RZ23 and RZ22 to different adapter SCSI for
	Atari-st with no success.

 	I try adapter Supra and G.Soft.

	I use the Vms Program for set the Spin-up on with success on two drive,
	but when these disks is connected to the atari-st scsi interface,
	the drive is not recognize by the software.
	I try different scsi address.

	Have you some Idea??

					Jean-Paul

That is exactly the same problem I have with my prototype RZ23.  When
connected, it locks up all disk I/O - I can't even read the floppy
disks.

I have a theory that it has somethng to do with what's written to the
first block or two of the disk, or that it has something to do with SCSI
termination.   However, I've done some experiments in this area, and
have not had any good results yet.  I've tried writing 0's to physical
sector 0, and I've trid placing the drive in the middle of a SCSI bus
with a terminated device at the other end, and I still get a condition
where the drive locks up the DMA bus, such that you can't even do any
floppy disk I/O.

Note that I never have ANY trouble reading or writing an RZ23 when
using the DGC adaptor - but that's highly "non-standard" from an Atari
viewport.  I suspect it's a bit more standard from a SCSI standpoint.

My next attempt will involve writing FF's to the entire first sector, or
perhaps to the entire drive.

				--------

The reason I have this theory is that I was once given a "broken" hard
drive that exhibited the same symptoms.  This was an ST506-type drive
with an OMTI SCSI adaptor.  By booting the system with the ST506
disconnected, starting the format program, and then reconnecting the
ST506 "hot", I was able to reformat the drive.  Once the drive was
reformatted, everything worked great.  This leads me to believe that it
had something to do with the data on the drive.

Since I CAN write whatever I want to the RZ23 using the DGC host
adaptor, I can do lots of experiments.  If anyone has any ideas for what
I should try, let me know.

    Does anyone know how to send a SCSI Start command (or have a utility to
    do it) to an RZ23. Phil hunt has written one for the Mac that will spin
    the drive up, but it won't work with an ST/ICD DMA-SCSI and Spectre. 
    Any pointers to info on how to do it would be appreciated.
    
    roger

    
    Can someone tell me where to get the following source code:
    
    
    A program that does low level hard drive format on an RD53.
    
    A program that does a high density format on a 3.5 firm (floppy) drive.

    
    
    Just wanted to add that that RD53 is a Micropolis 71 meg drive and is
     
    not supported on my list of format.  Need a low level formatter.

>    Just wanted to add that that RD53 is a Micropolis 71 meg drive and is
>    not supported on my list of format.  Need a low level formatter.

Sounds like you do have an HD format program, if so which one? I have used
both Atari and ICD formaters to format drives which they did not have on there
list.  If you know the HD's parameters (# heads, # tracks, etc..) the
information is easily entered into the ICD format program while it's running.
With the Atari software it is not quite so straight forward, you have to edit
a text file and place your numbers in the appropriate fields on two lines
(there are comments in the file indicating what the fields are).

	Ray

    Who helps !!
    
    I've got a ICD ACSI to SCSI adapter 'advantage' and a quantum P105 
    105 Mb 64Kb embedded cache SCSI drive connected.
    I'am using the supplied ICD software.
    
    The problem is as follows,
    
    On my 1040 st it works perfect.
    
    But when i hook the drive up to my mega 2, the mega goes INSANE.
    As soon as ANY data transfer access is done to the hard drive the 
    line sync of the mega switches to 50 Hz leaving an totally messed
    up picture on my screen (sm124).
    Vertical sync looks ok to me.
    
    Now when i hook a color monitor to the mega the screen picture stays
    correct after accessing the harddrive but i can't access the floppy
    anymore !!. It says "DATA ON DRIVE A: COULD ..." etc.
    A reboot with the harddrive disconnected solves this problem.
    
    I also tried a benchmark program which does a seek profile and a data
    transfer test. This program bypasses any hard disk driver.
    When executing this program with the monochrome monitor connected it
    gives me the same result as above. On a color monitor however the
    program crashes on a bus, address or privilege violation error.
    The monitor picture in this case stays intact. 
    
    Question,
    
    Is there anyone out there who has  seen this before ?
    Any hints for troubleshooting ?
    
    NOTE : Any comment is welcome.
    
    A desperate ATARIAN,
    
    Arthur.
                                              

    
    I had the same problem with the monitor after I upgraded the 1040 to
    4MB whenever I switched on a fluorescent lamp in the same room. The
    picture on the screen went wild. So I connected a line filter to the
    computer and everything was ok. This does not quite look similar to
    your problem, but the main difference between your 1040 and the Mega
    is the memory, right? So perhaps the Mega is more sensitive to dirty
    power which takes effect in DMA operations...
    
    Bernd
    

    Well last night i did some more testing on this.
    I hooked up my color monitor and managed to get the drive sort of
    working.
    But when copying large files to and from it the dma timing seems to 
    collapse, leaving the drive select led on. 
    And the system crashed with a bus error.
    Now when I looked at the schematics i found out that there is a
    possible connection between both problems.
    It's the DMA bus interrupt signal that is fed into the 68901 chip
    and also the basic timing for the monitor comes from the same chip.
    So what i'll do tonight is to check the power and (if i can get hold of
    one) replace the 68901 chip.
    Feel free to forward more hints / experiences regarding this problem.
    
    Arthur.

    
    	Hello Arthur,
    		I have exactly the same problem on my mega2 with the ICD
    adaptor and an RZ23 when used on a mono monitor. It works fine on a 
    1040 STE. I havn't been able to try it in colour yet but I expect to
    get the same problem. I will speak to my supplier later to see if they
    know the solution.
    
    		roger

    Hi roger,
    
    I'am glad not to be the only one with that problem anymore !!.
    From a few hours more troubleshooting one this problem i'am getting 
    convinced that the problem is certainly in the communication between
    the DMA controller and the ICD interface.
    I conclude this from the fact that as soon as the I/O get stalled, the 
    DMA interrupt signal is stuck in the active state.
    This signal is generated by the ACSI target(ICD adapter) to acknowledge 
    the receipt of a command / parameter byte.
    Anyway I also leave it up to my supplier.
    If you have any new information just let me know.
    I'll try to contact ICD europe support for this.
    
    Impatiently waiting for any result,
    
    Arthur.
             

    roger,
    
    I've got the solution for our problem, from ICD europe.	
    Connect a small ceramic capacitor about 33 pf between reset and gnd	
    pin 16 and 18 of the processor.
    And it works.
    
    Success,
    
    Arthur.

Any chance they gave an explanation of the cause of the problem and why the
fix fixes it?

	Ray

    Nope,
    
    But the only thing i can think of is that the high(er) frequency on the
    DMA bus causes some glitch like signals on the reset line of processor 
    and thus effectively resetting it's peripherals including the MFP chip.	
    
    NOTE. The processor itself will not be reset because to do this there
    must be a timing relation between the halt and the reset pin on the
    processor. (see the timing diagram in the 68000 manuals).
    
    Arthur.

    Has anyone tried connecting the hard drive that can be found inside
    Rainbows to the ST ? Is it easy ? Simple even ? Or should I forget it ?
    
    
    Cheers,
    
    
    				Jamie.

That's either an RD50, RD51, or RD52.  The 10mb disk (RD51) was the most
popular, I recall.

Connecting it is the same as any other disk of it's era.  It's an ST506
compatible disk (the 5MB disk was a genuine ST506!).  You need a "host
adaptor" and a "SCSI controller".  See the preceeding notes for all the
gory details.  If you already have the disk and power supply, you can do
this for about $180 by calling Toad Computer and ordering this stuff. 
You can do it cheaper if you are a real scrounge and can get a bargin
basement Adaptek-4000 SCSI controller and build your own host adaptor
from the DGC plans.  If you want the DGC plans, let me know.

    With Christmas almost upon us and therefore a bit of leave time due to
    me I have decided that once more I will have a crack at getting a
    second harddisk to run of my C't OMTI controller board.
    
    I have the article out of C't explaining how to do it (my german is
    good enough to get most of the meaning out of the article) and have
    constructed the cables etc. I also have the HDBIOS sources to make the
    mods required in the driver. I did try this once before, though without
    any success.
    
    My questions are these:
    
    1) Has anyone out there yet succeeded in getting two drives running off
    one OMTI board ?
    
    2.) If memory serves me the sources for HDBIOS are in a .ASM file, what
    compiler uses .ASM extension file ? I only have DEVPAC (which uses .S
    source files) and am not sure whether it is okay to use DEVPAC with 
    HDBIOS.ASM
    
    Thanks for the responses and wish me luck
    
    
    Jonathan

>  DS1 20p connector has been soldered on the board 
>  Formatting and partitioning of RD53 hooked on DS1 using ICD software gave
>  no problem and I can use the 20 meg (DS0) or RD53 (DS1) but not both at
>  once! 
When you say you can use them one at a time, do you mean you leave one or the
other powered off, or you disconnect the cables on one?

Is the drive select jumper on the RD53 set for DS1 or DS0 (I'm not talking
about the cable that you are calling DS1) ? It should be DS1 (ie: the second
drive select).

Have you removed the pullup resistor pack from the drive which is electricly
closest to the controller?

	Ray

    

> When you say you can use them one at a time, do you mean you leave one or the
> other powered off, or you disconnect the cables on one?

 -Well if they are both up and connected and I boot with the ICD software 
  in floppy a: I can hear the Tandon (20 meg connected to DS0) do one 
  short burst access then on the desktop I only get the c: drive (on floppy 
  a:desktop.inf the partition c:d:e:f:g:h:i:j: are declared/installed)
       
  	1) I can not access c: (please check connection...drive c: may be
           damage...etc)

	2) If I then install f: on the desktop  f: works fine...
 
          
     
  -If I disconnect the 34 flat cable from the RD53 (71 meg connected to DS1)
   restart both hardisk (RD53..spin up,Tandon..spin up) then boot with ICD floppy
   in a:

         1) It boots up normally from c: (c: where desktop.inf the partition
            c:d:e:f:g:h:i:j: are declared/installed) and I can use all the
            partition located on the Tandon (ie: partition c:d:e:)
        


>Is the drive select jumper on the RD53 set for DS1 or DS0 (I'm not talking
>about the cable that you are calling DS1) ? It should be DS1 (ie: the second
>drive select).
                                                            
                                                            
                                                   
  -yes they are set for DS1 (I think!)       : : | : | |   on RD53   
       and if i figured this out right       4 D S 1 W W
       after reading note 41.99                3 2   2 1
                                                   


>Have you removed the pullup resistor pack from the drive which is electricly
>closest to the controller?
 
    -yes I have...  the Tandon pullup resistor pack are out!


 In fact I think I did follow step by step note 41.39 but use an RD53 and 
 ICD software on SH205 instead of an RD52 and Supra software on SH204...

 come to think of it I had to do one more step that is to solder a 20-pin
 connector on the SH205 board (The connector is marked as DS1 and not present
 on the SH205 ...probably already on board of the SH204 ?)
  
 The think that worry's me is in the French magazine (STMAG 32) They speak of
 the SH205 spell out the same steps as 41.49 + the soldering of DS1 (they also
 use ICD software) BUT they say one needs a program called boot2d.prg in AUTO
 folder of boot partition...

 Perhaps..It is my power supply...or else..or else..or any one got an idea

     Well what ever thanks..( merci ) and please excuse me for my lousy 
     English                                      
                                                   
							\Jean-pierre
                   
                         

    More hacking and slashing of hardware went on in a quiet suburb of
    London last night. Burning the midnight oil I was moving jumpers and
    swapping cables and plugging/unplugging drives furiously. I loaded
    driver sources and made modifications, reassembled them and tried them
    out, all in an attempt to attain the long awaited goal of a second
    drive on my ST.
    
    And I thought, I really thought, I had it cracked and so proceeded to
    remount my 1st HD (with all my data on it) together with my second HD.
    It was going to work !!!!!
    
    Upon power up/boot up, all the appropriate lights lit and the healthly
    purrrr of two drives filled the room Purrrrrrr it went as if whispering
    "I'm alright, everything is fine, you're about to be a happy man"
    
    What it was actually saying was "KILL KILL KILL... DESTROY...
    EXTERMINATE... Mmmmm, data, let's trash it..."
    
    After the blood had brained back into my cheeks, I thought (rationally
    enough...) hey, this wouldn't happen to me, I'll just disconnect the 
    second drive, reboot and all my precious data will be fine.
    
    STRIKE TWO !!!!!! (as all you baseball fans will appreciate)
    
    "Sh*t, now what the hell did I do with those backups ???"
    
    Well I had my essential data backed up, so it wasn't a total disaster
    but I did lose many .ARC files that I had painstakingly collected over
    many a midnight dial-out session. The backed up data was probably some
    months old and I had modified many things since then...
    
    Overall I think you could safely say..
    
    STRIKE THREE... YER OUT !!!!!!!
    
    But there's a lesson in this that I have learned the hard(disk) way.
    
    BACKUPS are only as effective as you're backup strategy.
    
    Oh well, you live and learn (and generally pay heavily for your
    mistakes... though I think I actually got off quite lightly... thank
    you God) and on the bright side.... I now have lots more space on the
    one disk that sits on my ST
    
    Jonathan_not_to_proud_to_admit_his_folly_but_wiser_after_the_event

        
      Well It was the power supply after all !...
        
        And yes, Mea-culpa you where right Ray.. as was everyone else 
        that kept saying that the ICD software and adaptek 4000 could 
        handle two hardisks without any problem!.. no need for any other
        piece of software.
        
        
      I manage to get hold of an old (huge) 200 watt power supply from 
        a PC with this powering the SH205 board The Tandon(20 meg) the 
        RD53(71 meg) span up both as did the fan...no problem here...so 
        here we go and boot up ah! ah! all there from c: to J:...click 
        on f: and magic..everything work and has been all week end ....  
       
       
      ...Next step find a big case that can hold all this pile to make it
         into a one piece...
         

                                enjoy life/Jean-pierre    
        
    

    
    RZ22/RZ23 with ICD Advantage works but i have some troubles.
    
    - I have a MEGA ST2
    
    - I solve the video monochrome problem with an other DMA cable(short
    cables for Megafile 30).
    
    - I have a problem with autoboot,
      At power up, is's impossible to boot on Rz disks, but after the first 
      load with a diskette having the driver, it's posible to reboot on disk
    
    
    

Does somebody have the (driver etc.) software for the ct' OMTI host adapter?

I tried to order it, together with the PCB, but it's no longer
available. So I have to either type it in :-( or  find somebody who
can put it on the net/mail it to me...

BTW, if you have a spare OMTI adapter PCB (to generate a minimum 
PC slot to be able to use the OMTI controller), I'll take it (for a
reasonable price)...

Thanks, and have a nice Christmas and a happy new year,

	-Peter

    
    Hi Peter,,
    
    
    I have the original and the latest version of the OMTI software on the
    net it can be found:-
    
    NOTSO::DISK$USER:[KEANE.ST]HDISK.ARC
    NOTSO::DISK$USER:[KEANE.ST]HDISKV21.ARC
    
    
    BE AWARE that the V2.1 version has a problem starting up. What we do is
    to put a copy of V0.8 in first in the Auto folder followed by the V2.1
    bios. This then inits the OMTI OK. The V21 supports 8 16 MB partitions.
    
    I am also looking for a source for the original OMTI adaptor card. I
    have a colleague who is wanting to build one. I just have had my cheque
    returned by Heise because they say the ORIGINAL board is obsolete.
    HOWEVER they offered me a NEW card. This is the multi function
    "EINGEKLINKT" adaptor from the C'T 1/1989. I have the article, The
    adaptor is a bigger PCB, which contains four "LINK" adaptors for
    Transputer cards and an OMTI slot and DMA buffers and a DMA out
    connector.
    
    Apparently if you only want the OMTI bit you only have to populate half
    the card with logic. There appears to be much better buffering and
    isolation in the new design! However there is a PAL to be blown!.
    
    I have a question for the ST world:-  Has anyone built the new style
    board ??  Does it work??? DOES THE ORIGINAL SOFTWARE RUN ON IT??
    
    I would be extremely grateful for any information.
    
    ALSO, if there is problems with the new card,  did anyone who built the
    original board take an impression of the  tracking before they
    populated it? (So I could make some spare PCB's).
    
    
    THe Heise numbe for the new card is 8901126dBE
    
    Cheers and a happy CHristmas to you all!
    
    Pat K.

    
Some time ago I asked for help:

In article <1990Dec10.110739@kboeng.enet.dec.com> heiden@kboeng.enet.dec.com \
(Matthias Heiden) writes:
>I would like to upgrade my original SH204  (with 20 MByte Tandon 262) with
>another drive. As far as I understand the hostadapter inside the SH204 
>understands SCSI. Therefore I would like to connect it directly to a 
>'genuine' SCSI drive instead of putting another MFM drive on the
>Adaptec 4000 SCSI -> MFM controller.
>Does anybody has experience with this solution ? What sort of problems 
>could I run into ?
>Any help is appreciated.
>Thanks					Matthias Heiden

This is now an intermediate summary of my attempt to get information
and practical experience of how to use the Atari SH204 hostadapter 
with 'genuine' SCSI drives.
First, thanks to all who replied and provided useful information and
experience. 	

The basic answer to my question seems to be : YES, it can be done
						   ... BUT

-  From: ccicpg!paulm@uunet.uu.net (Paul Moreau)
   [edited] 
   I have hooked a Maxtor XT-4380S , XT-4380E w/ Emulex SCSI->ESDI card,
   a Wren 6 SCSI drive and a Cypher 540 SCSI cartridge tape drive to my 
   SH204 host adapter.   I've only had problems with the Wren.

-  From: duke!sam.cs.olemiss.edu!tacky.cs.olemiss.edu!tony@mcnc.org 
   (Tony Reynolds)
   [edited]
   Well, I can tell you that I have had nothing but failure with this.  
   I used two mechanisms, the ST-157N and ST-296N from Seagate.  I can
   make a ST-251-1 work fine (using HDX 3.01) but have never, despite
   repeated attempts, succeeded in making a 'genuine' SCSI drive work.

-  From: apratt@atari.UUCP (Allan Pratt)
   [edited]
   This works for some SH204's.  However, the power supply in the SH204 is
   not beefy enough for some drives.  The only way to tell is to see if it
   dies. Therefore this is not recommended practice.  In addition, the
   host adapter might have the "old" PAL, not the "new" one, which won't
   return some errors from the SCSI controller.  This bit me recently: the
   "old" PAL didn't return "write protected" from my Syquest drive, and
   boy was I confused!  The writes seemed to work, but the cached
   directory etc. didn't match what was actually on the disk.

   The "old" PAL has the number 60AC on it.  If the little board in your
   SH204 has a chip with that number on it, it won't return some errors
   from the drive.  I don't know how to get the "new" PAL - maybe dealers
   can order it.  Since the SH204 is not in production any more, this
   might be hard.

-  From: fernwood!portal!cup.portal.com!Yonderboy@uunet.uu.net (Christopher 
   Lee Russell)
   [edited] 
   I just bought the PAL chip meantioned for my Atari SH204.  I purchased the
   chip from B&C Computer here in Sunnyvale, CA.  The number of B&C is
   408-749-1003.  I think I paid $20 for it... I decided it was worth the
   insurance.  You might want to try San Jose computer as well.  I think you
   can find there number in the Atari Mags......

-  Now my own experience so far:

   I tried with a Quantum P80S drive which was used before with a 
   Future Domain SCSI board on a PC system. From there I know that 
   it worked. 
   The power supply of my SH204 is rated at 2 Ampere, the P80S 
   consumes (according to spec.) at max 1.7. 
   My SH204 has the "old" PAL - but anyhow. 
   Using a single ended SCSI terminator at the P80S end, I got the drive
   finally alive. Using RATEHD from ICD, I'm getting the following average
   figures for my original and the Quantum setup:

                           Reported Setup   Transfer Rate    Access Time
   SH204 Adapter with 
   Adaptec 4000 and          ADAPTEC 5000   306 Kbyte/sec	106 msec    
   Tandon 262 - 20 MByte 

   SH204 Adapter with    P80S 980-80-94xx   673 Kbyte/sec	 28 msec
   Quantum P80S
 
   This is in fact quite impressive (:-).
   By doing single sector reads, I can access 163545 sectors on the P80S
   and read all the information which was originally written while in use
   at the PC system. 

   Well, so far so good. BUT, although I can read, I did NOT succeed
   until now to WRITE anything nor to get the drive REFORMATTED! 
   Trying to do so causes the drives's busy light to go on and stay on 
   forever (at least until I switch the drive off). Further attempts 
   to read/write/spin down ... leave me alone with "drive not responding" 
   or "drive not available - check cabling" messages etc. (:-(.	 

   Any further advise is very much appreciated.
 
						Matthias Heiden


    

    	Does anyone know where to get the Adaptec SCSI <-> ST506 card??? 
    (in the US...) TOAD no longer carries them nor does anyone else who
    advertises in STart.
    
    Brian

I've taken to preferring the OMTI boards to the Adaptek, but I recall
seeing one supplier of Adaptek 4000's and 4070's in the most recent
Computer Shopper magazine.  I don't have it here today, but think it was
Tymeline, a surplus dealer.

    	Where can one get the OMTI boards???  I don't know enough about
    this issue to have a preference of controller, I just want something
    that works and doesn't cost too much $$$
    
    Brian
    

The OMTI boards are what Toad sells instead of the Adaptek boards.  The
loest price I've seen for the Adaptek 4000 is about $60.  Generally
expect to pay $80.  Toad has the OMTI boards for about $90.

The MFM version is cheaper, but the RLL version will give you about 50%
more space.  I've found many MFM drives work just fine formatted for use
as RLL.

    	Unfortunately TOAD no longer sells any sort of SCSI <-> ST506
    converters and the guy I talked to didn't know where to get them...
    
    

I called "Ray" at Toad.  The story goes like this:  TOAD get's their
controlers from ICD, and ICD is apparently no longer able to get the
OMTI controllers.  Essentially, everybody has switched over to using
SCSI drives, and the bottom has fallen out of the SCSI to MFM
controller card market.  As a result, OMTI has, according to rumor,
stopped making them (or perhaps anything else :-(.) 

This is bad for those of use that have relatively easy access to surplus
RD52's and similar drives, since those are the parts you need.  For
reference, the following models of controllers are know to be good for
this purpose:

	OMTI 3520 (MFM) 3527 (RLL)
	Adaptek 4000 (MFM, controls 2 drives) 4070 (RLL, controls 2 drives)
	Adaptek 5500 (MFM, controls 4 drives)

You can use an RLL controller on the DEC drives, and it will actually
appear work, but keep good backups in that case, until you have
confidence that the drive can hold the increased data density reliably
for an extended time.

At this moment, I don't know where to get them.  If you find a source,
please post it here.

    	I found a place called "WeirdStuff Warehouse" in Milpitas that
    advertises several SCSI -> ST506 controllers.  They seem to have....
    
    Adaptec 4000    $89
    Adaptec 4000A  $139
    Adaptac 4070    $99
    
    	I believe I've seen reference to all of these in this file in
    various places.  Which of these is best for connecting to your garden
    variety RD52/53 along with the ICD controller?
    
    Brian
    

The 4000 will work fine.

I don't know what makes the 4000A different.

The 4070 is for RLL use, which could get you 50% more disk space, but
these drives were not "certified" for use at the higher density.  If
you are the kind of person that formats both sides of SSDD floppies, go
for the 4070, otherwise go for the 4000, unless someone else pops in
and can tell you why the 4000A is better.

The "ACB-4000 Series Users Manual" just states the following -

	"The ACB-4000A was previously known as two seperate products,
	the ACB-4000 and ACB-4010. It is fully compatible with these
	products."

Which is open two at least a couple interpretations... It mostly sounds like
the 4000, 4010, 4000A are all numbers refering to the same board/design.

Adaptek no longer lists the ACB-4000 or the ACB-4010 in there literature. They
only list the ACB-4000A.

	Ray

>
>    	I found a place called "WeirdStuff Warehouse" in Milpitas that
>    advertises several SCSI -> ST506 controllers.  They seem to have....
>   
>    Adaptec 4000    $89
>    Adaptec 4000A  $139
>    Adaptac 4070    $99
>

	I bought a couple of 4000's from these guys.  I think they used
	to be "Computer Warehouse" or something.  They'll charge you
	extra for a manual but you don't really need it.

	My two boards were bought maybe 3 months apart.  Interesting that
	they were quite different.  (etch, connector orientation)  There
	were no identifying marks on the board that told why - like
	maybe one was a 4000 and one a 4000A.  Oh well, they both worked.

	I found the "Weirdstuff Warehouse" by digging through COmputer
	Shopper.  They were the only source I found for these boards.

	chris
    

    I believe the ACB-4010 is just the OEM version of the ACB-4000.
    
    I have no idea what the differences were needed for the OEM market,
    possibly they got tired of maintaining two models and just renamed
    the 4010 to be the 4000A.
    
    Dave

    -.102
    My RZ23 refuses to spin in my configuration, help wanted?????
    
    Finally I got a RZ23 and a GE-SOFT III ACSI -->SCSI controller so 
    here we go. I found in entry 41.102 a method to reset the Disable 
    Spinup Bit by using a VS3100. Here follows my mistory:
    >>> show dev
    DKA200 RZ2 A/2/0/00 DISK 104 MB FX RZ23 rev 0A18
    >>>
    >>> T73
    VStmk_QUE_port (A,B) ? A
    
    VStmk_QUE_id (0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7) ? 2
    vstmk_que_rusure (1/0) ? 41000001
    
    check bus busy (1)
       command : 1B 00 00 00 01 00 (2)
       status  : 00 (2)
       msg_in  : 00 (2) (1)
       command : 1A 00 25 00 FF 00 (2)
       data_in : 24 00 00 08 00 03 20 40 00 00 02 00 A5 17 01 00
                 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
                 00 00 00 00 00 (2)
       status  : 00 (1)
       msg_in  : 00 (1) (1)
       command : 15 01 00 00 1D 00 (2)
       data_out: 00 00 00 00 25 17 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
                 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 (10)
       status  : 00 (1)
       msg_in  : 00 (1)
    ok
    >>>
    
    This all seems ok however I don't have a clue what all the numbers
    mean. But the result is very poor, It just doesn't work. I have
    tried this on two VS3100's with the same result. Any help would be
    very welcome. Its a pain to have so many megabytes which you can't
    use.
    
    Ton.

   	Hi,

	 I think I may have found a possible solution.... Where the 
	**** are, the question was r u sure?? I believe that the VS3100
	was quite unsure of your answer. Try again and answer the question
	apporpriatly. It may give you a different status.
>    >>> T73                       
>    VStmk_QUE_port (A,B) ? A
>    
>    VStmk_QUE_id (0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7) ? 2
>    vstmk_que_rusure (1/0) ? 41000001  **** This command asks or your 
>                                            verification of th previous
>    check bus busy (1)                      action 1=yes 0=no
>       command : 1B 00 00 00 01 00 (2)
>       status  : 00 (2)
             etc.....
>       status  : 00 (1)
>       msg_in  : 00 (1)
>    ok
	****** it should end with a note something like this...
	PV_SCS_QUE_SUCC        <--- successful message.
>    >>>

		Hope this helps..

		Harold Swaffield
		Canadian Remote Support Center
		Hull, Quebec.

    
    The reply to the vstmk_que_rusure (1/0) ? question is examined bit by
    bit. The 41 part of it sets up monitoring of SCSI transactions. Yes is
    specified by the 1 in the bottom bit.
    
    I don't know exactly what's going on but from an RZ55 spec the commands
    are:
    
    1B: Start/stop unit. Byte 4 being 01 spins up the disk.
    
    1A: Mode sense. This reports the medium and device parameters. Byte 2
        being 25 selects the DEC unique page.
    
    15: Mode select. This updates the current mode values with the values
        defined.
    
    As there is no SCSI error status all the transactions must have
    completed successfully. Possibly the wrong bit is being set in the
    answer to rusure question to modify the parameters to what you want?
    
    Arthur.

    Yuk,yuk,yuk,
    
    	This also had me going for a bit, you need to use 42000001 to
    enable it to spin up on power on, and 41000001 to put it back to
    normal.
    	The numbers you are getting back are fine, so long as it say ok at
    the bottom.
    
    		Roger

    re -.168
	Lots of thanks to Roger Lane it was indeed a 42000001 reply
	which made my RZ23 spinning. So the good scenario now is this:

    >>> show dev
    DKA200 RZ2 A/2/0/00 DISK 104 MB FX RZ23 rev 0A18
    >>>
    >>> T73
    VStmk_QUE_port (A,B) ? B
    
    VStmk_QUE_id (0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7) ? 2
    vstmk_que_rusure (1/0) ? 42000001
    
    check bus busy (1)
       command : 1B 00 00 00 01 00 (2)		I think this means
       status  : 00 (2)				disable spinup.
       msg_in  : 00 (2) (1)				    |
       command : 1A 00 25 00 FF 00 (2)			    V
       data_in : 24 00 00 08 00 03 20 40 00 00 02 00 A5 17 01 00
                 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
                 00 00 00 00 00 (2)
       status  : 00 (1)		I think this means
       msg_in  : 00 (1) (1)	enable spinup.
       command : 15 01 00 00 1D 00  V
       data_out: 00 00 00 00 25 17 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
                 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 (10)
       status  : 00 (1)
       msg_in  : 00 (1)
    ok
    >>>
    Then I did a power down/up without the red spoon and with the SCSI
    cable disconnected. The drive spins like a cat. Thank yooouuu !!!

    However now follows the bad news:
    After installing a jumper to E4 I was able to succesfully format and
    Partioning the drive, wow 102 MB online, no I'm afraid not.
    When I did a reboot as the manual from GE-SOFT instructs me to do
    I don't see a drive C. I can't even access my flop intermittend.
    Many errors TOS #35 and DMA hang follow. If I did a total power down
    for a few minutes and then a power up again. It works sometimes somehow.
    So it seems that my controller got a DDOA, what we call in field service
    a Delayed Dead On Arrival. So I contacted the supplier of the interface 
    and we agreed for a trade-in of my GE-SOFT III controller on a 
    ICD ADVANTAGE ST. I preferred an ICD ADVANTAGE ST PLUS which has an 
    embedded clock (which i still don't have) but this one is on order 
    for 3 months now. I will reply my progress here.

						Ton.

    
     As I inch along in making my ST a multi-hard drive unit things change.
     To date I have managed to interface my 4000 ICD board with the host 
     adapter and hang a partitioned  Seagate 251 42 meg unit off it.
     This makes  C drive and D drive.  Then I got more cabling and connect
     another RD type off it calling them E drive and F drive.  All was
     going to good to believe.  I shutdown and brought it backup with my
     ICD host adapter program in the AUTO file booting off floppy. Having
     saved the DESKTOP with the ICONS all was fine all segments present.
     Left machine on to burnin for infant mortality and it was fine.
     Backed up all data from C/D to E/F just to archive and test it.
     All was fine.  Turned off and came back later and the E/F segments
     are gone and no disk known.
    
     What has gone wrong and what has made the system forget my partitions?
     Is there a program that I could run to effect the driver needed?
     Otherwise I am stuck not seeing drive E/F at all and must reformat.
     Is this a GEM TOS flaw or does anyone have an idea what to do?
    
    
      Thanks in advance;
    
       Ken Pollan 

If you run the formater (but don't format) does it recognize that the drive is
still there (something like SHIP could be used instead of format)? If not then
maybe one of your cables is flakey or has come loose.

	Ray

This could be power sequencing.  If you second drive is substantially
slower in startup than the first drive, the drivers read from the first
drive won't see it.  Be sure not to turn on the ST until BOTH drives have
finished their wake-up sequence.

    re:41.169
    The ICD adavantage controller arrived so I went to the dealer and what
    happened was that when we tried this controller with the RZ23 I got the
    same problem as Arthur sinke in reply 41.131. So I adviced the supplier
    to ad a capacitor of 33 pf on the dma in connector between pin 11 and 12
    which is gnd and reset (see reply 41.136) and yes it worked perfect.
    Many thanks to the people who did the difficult parts for me.
    
    					Ton Drummen

    	Aren't caps wonderful???  I have the same problem with my bw
    monitor loosing sync and the people at ICD told me to put a 22uf
    cap between pins 12 and 13(???) on the dma in connector???  Anybody
    know if both pins 11 and 13 are ground.  I haven't tried the fix yet.
    
    Brian
    

Pins Hard disk connector

11 Ground
12 Reset
13 Ground

	Ray

    
    .170 continued.  No matter how I start up the ST the second drive is 
    not there. Is there a HD ulility that I could run to detect why?
    The ICD auto boot utility does only see C and D.  E and F are not there
    any more.  I bet if I start over and reformat the partitions will be
    seen.  But this means wiping out the whole disk. What I will try is 
    to put another disk on and partition it. We'll see what happens.
    Unfortunatly, ST506 format is so dumb and I don't know a utility
    to test the connection.  My hardware seems to be the same.
    How can a disk just get dropped from GEM TOS and not found again?
                                                                     
    Ken P.

Since yesterday 02:00am I have my RD52 with OMTI 5520 controller running :-)
Well, kind of... :-(

I've got slight problems with the data on that disk. Upon retrieval
of text files, for example, at certain points some data is just missing.

I suspect that either the format is somehow bad:
	512 cylinders,
	8 heads,
	15 sectors per track <-- maybe this is wrong????

or the jumpers on the OMTI board, indicating to the controller that it is 
using a Quantum 540 disk should be removed (I'll try that tonite). Any 
experiences?

Thanks for any helpful hints,

	-Peter


Btw: as the adapter pcb is no longer available, I had to use a VERO board 
to make it by myself, based on a faulty circuit diagram (copy of the 
original c't article, which shows the power connections for IC3 and 
IC1 reversed [Vcc<->Gnd, pins 10 and 20]). 

>I suspect that either the format is somehow bad:
>	512 cylinders,
>	8 heads,
>	15 sectors per track <-- maybe this is wrong????

Should be 17 sectors. The other two numbers look correct.

	Ray

    
    Hi 
    
    The jumpers on the OMTI card serve NO useful purpose in the CT design.
    What the jumpers do is to select the entry point on the I*M bios that
    is in the Rom that is on the 5520 controller. (The jmpers tell the Bios
    what hard disk you have on the controller.
    Since on the ST - CT article we load our own HD BIOS, (and obviously the
    IBM code wont run!) The jumpers are redundant
    
    Ray is correct you should only use 17 sectors/per track.
    
    Dont forget to enter the BAD block list when you format!
    
    Reforma with 17 sectors and try again!
    
    It is very difficult to get an unknown drive, unknown 5520 and home built
    CT adaptor running at the same time. What we have done in the past is
    to use a working setup as a test bed to try each part in turn!, Is
    
    Regards  Pat.
    there anyone near you that can help you with this!

re < Note 41.178 by YNOTME::WALLACE >
>         -< Try 17 sectors >-

BINGO, that's the ticket! 

RD52 (=Quantum 540), 512 cyl, 8 heads, interleave = 2, 17 sectors/track

(insert bright, stupid smile here...)

~30 MB. Fantastic. Great. Didn't know that my floppy was sooo slow.

	-Peter

re < Note 41.179 by UKCSSE::KEANE >

>    The jumpers are redundant
I removed them anyway, but that indeed was not the point.
    
>    Dont forget to enter the BAD block list when you format!
Ooops, I skipped that in my excitement, so I'll reformat and enter the bad
block info.
    
>    It is very difficult to get an unknown drive, unknown 5520 and home built
>    CT adaptor running at the same time. 
Well, I managed to. Maybe I should play lotto tonight...

Thanks for all your help!

	-Peter

    
    Does anyone know if the RZ23 has provision for a drive active LED ?
    
    
    TNX 1.0E6
    
    		Roger
    

    Hello,
    
    	Has anyone been successful in connetcing a 71MB micropolis
    drive (RD53 style) to an atari 1040ST using the host adapter and
    controller in the SH204?
    
    	A friend loaned me a drive for a while, and I formatted it
    using the SUPRA software.  It seems to work OK on the C,D,E, and
    F partitions, but G and H (which I didn't partition) are somehow
    mapped to an area on the disk, and seem to change pointing to
    A: and C:, and D:, depending on what I do...
    
    	I formatted it with 8 heads, 1024 cylinders, interleave 1,
    precomp 255 (1024/4)...
    
    MAN, I'm confused!!!!!
    
    _John_
    
    P.S.  Has anyone else had problems with TRESTORE (Turtle restorew)
    corrupting files as they are restored?
    
    Thanks!
    

    re:-182
    I saw somewhere in the amiga notes-file that you can connect a led to
    the front connector on the RZ23. I'll try to find it and post it here.
    	
    	Ton.

>    	Has anyone been successful in connetcing a 71MB micropolis
>    drive (RD53 style) to an atari 1040ST using the host adapter and
>    controller in the SH204?

Yes, I've done this.  The ST at my Church is a surplus RD53 connected
through an Adaptek 4000 to the host adaptor from an SH204.  Although
the Adaptek 4000 was replaced with a real one before the upgrade, due
to the original being bad, it works great now.
    
>    	A friend loaned me a drive for a while, and I formatted it
>    using the SUPRA software.  It seems to work OK on the C,D,E, and
>    F partitions, but G and H (which I didn't partition) are somehow
>    mapped to an area on the disk, and seem to change pointing to
>    A: and C:, and D:, depending on what I do...

This is a peculiar feature of the old Atari hard drive softare.  You
should try to get a copy of the latest 3.02.  [Hey, I have that! 
Perhaps I could upload it for you.]  There's already an older
HDX301.ARC in my USER2:[LOMICKAJ.HOBBY.ST] area that should also work
okay.  Note the problem doesn't completely go away, but it is much less
apparent with the newer software.

One more thing, make sure the drive select jumper on the bottom of the
RD53 is in the "1" position, not the "A" position.  In "A" ("All"), it
may confuse the software into thinking there is more than one drive
attached.

>    MAN, I'm confused!!!!!

This had me going for a while too.  I was using the original 20MB drive
as drive 1, and added an RD52 as drive 2 when I first noticed it.  It
seems to be related to having the fourth partition.  I'm sure it a bug,
but it doesn't appear to be harmful.  It does, however, interfere with
your ability to install a RAM disk as the next drive letter.

>    P.S.  Has anyone else had problems with TRESTORE (Turtle restorew)
>    corrupting files as they are restored?

I've heard of many problems with backup utilities being unable to
restore, particularly Turtle and David Chiquelin's.  The reason for
this is that no matter HOW HARD you try, you can't get around the TOS
buffering problems, particularly in TOS 1.0.  I have tried VERY HARD,
and I know this to be true.  A program that accesses every file on the
drive, particulary one that creates directories, will almost always
trash the drive totally.  This is even true on TOS 1.4.  There are two
ways around it:

- Only use IMAGE backups.  (Boo, hiss.  Can't get single files back.)

- Use a backup utility that bypasses GEMDOS and emulates the GEMDOS
file system itself at the block level, such as the "GOOD Backup Utility".

    
    I'm about to connect a RZ23 to the MAXON SCSI hostadaptor. Now I
    read in the adaptor's manual that it uses 24mA drivers. They say
    that exactly *one* device has to have the termination resistor pack
    in the line of connected SCSI devices to achive SCSI's 48mA bus
    current.
    
    Where do I terminate the RZ23 ? Close to the SCSI connector I couldn't
    find any removable resistor pack and I heard that termination is not
    neccessary in our SCSI machines.
    
    Bernd
    
         

    
    To answer my own question: further investigation showed up with some
    'filled' holes (some kind of glue or whatever) about 2 mm away from
    the SCSI connector which exactly fit to the legs of three resistor
    arrays one may push in. I guess these are for the termination.
    Meanwhile I terminated another SCSI device which I was sure about the
    terminator's location, so the problem is fixed.
    Btw, what is the connector (or jumper pole), beside the ribbon-cable to
    the HDA, for?
    
    Bernd
    

    Hello,
    
    	WELL, the 71 MEG Micropolis is formatted and running correctly.
    Unfortunately I could only get it to format for 60 MEG.  I downloaded
    the HDX301 from PRNSYS::, but the .ARC was corrupted...
    
    	I searched through 9.* looking for other directories of
    Atari stuff, but found no *HDX* files.  Instead of waiting for
    another download from the VAX to my ST, with a chance that the
    .ARC was corrupted on the OTHER end, I downloaded HDX V 3.01
    from GENIE.
    
    	It seems that the HDX software sees the MegaFile 60 as the
    largest drive.  I used that, and voila...  It works!
    
    	Now I can use H: for my MWC ramdisk again!!!!
    
    Happy (until I have to return the drive to my friend),
    
    _John_
    
    P.S.  Any good deals out there on drives?  40-80 MEG for not "too"
          much money?

I just did an ARC T, on VMS, of the aforementioned HDX 3.01 archive
from my release area, and contest that the archive is, in fact, intact.
 It is a STREM_LF file, and requires CVTARC V before transfer via
KERMIT or STRANSF.  For further info on mapping fiel attributes to
transfer modes, read my XFERINTRO.TXT.

(I'm seriously considering UUENCODING absolutely EVERYTHING that I
upload to VMS, just to make these problems go away.)

    Oh OK, I saw .ARC, and assumed it wasn't uuencoded...
    
    _John_

No, HDX301.ARC is NOT UUencoded, it just has different VMS file attributes.

    re:.188
    
    	Thanks for finding this Ton, it works fine!
    
    		Roger

    Reply to note 41.185
    I have a problem connecting an old RD53 to an IBM PC. As described
    in 41.185, my RLL controller recognizes two drives instead of one.
    I can't locate the "A" position for drive select, only DS1-DS4 and
    jumpers W1 and W2 which are both out.
    Is there any explanation for this ???
    
    Thanks in advance ...
    Helmut

    Hi there.
    May somebody can help me with my Problem.
    I own an old RD53 and got an OMTI Controller and an OMTI - ST/DMA
    Adapter.
    Now the problem:
    	After formatting the RD53 and typing in the bad sectors. I like
    	to partitioning the RD53.
    	The Partioning Software does not know the maximal amount of
    	cylinders (1024).
    
    	Does anyone had the same problem?
    
    One another problem is:
    
    	The Atari itself does not sense the RD53.
    	on the OMYI - controller i miss any jumper to set the deviceadress
    	even on the OMTI / ST-DMA Adapter!
    	Does anyone have a schematic of the ST-DMA Adapter?
    
    Thank for help in advance
    
    Rolf
    

    
    thoroughly reading this file I didn't find anybody who connected two
    RZ23 to his host adapter. Now, that's my problem.
    Finally my MAXON SCSI host adapter is working now and it comes up with
    one RZ23 just fine, 100MB online. This adapter is designed to handle
    up to four devices, so I just wanted to try out how a second RZ looks
    on my desktop. But, I just cannot configure any RZ as a device with 
    an address higher than 0. Zero is all jumpers E1...E3 out, right?, so
    address 1 should be jumper E1 in, 2 is E2 in and 3 is E1 and E2 in.
    That's at least what I thought so far, but it doesn't work. Both drives
    are only seen when connected seperately with all jumpers out.
    I learned that jumper E4 is to enable/disable formatting, so that can't
    be the problem. My hostadapter isn't the problem either, because I
    connected a friend's 80MB Seagate as drive 1 and it worked great
    together with the RZ as drive 0.
    On one of the RZ's there is another jumper, which I can't determine the
    function. Maybe this has something to do with it, although it's missing
    on the other drive. If you're holding the drive with the SCSI connector
    facing towards you, it's about in the middle of the PCB on the side
    opposite to you. The jumper pole has three pins, just like E4.
    Now, how can I set a RZ23 to an address any other than zero??? 
    
    Another question, which is about the MAXON SCSI host adapter. Maybe
    some other noter has that thing also and got some more experiances
    meanwhile. I found out, that after starting the system a checkprogramm
    shows me a transfer rate of about 1MB/sec. Running the same program
    after half an hour it comes up with about 500kB/sec and after some
    other time it goes down to 65kB/sec. This is the lowest rate I
    encountered until now. Although the adapter sits closest to the fan,
    it seems that there is a temperature problem? Any suggestions or fixes
    so far?
    
    Bernd
    

From what you say, it should have worked.  Last I heard, E4 was to
disable parity.  You don't have to make the drives consecutive SCSI
addreses, so long as they are all different.

Perhaps you are using too many sets of SCSI terminators?

    
    Nope, I tried it with terminators on every drive and I tried just one
    terminator on one of the drives. I do not want to try out no terminator
    at all because this might burn the outgoing buffers of the adapter (?).
    
    When I connected just one drive no other adress than 0 worked. With
    either 1,2 or 3 (the max. for the adapter) the drive wasn't seen by the
    system. I wonder if I just do not set the addresses correctly? But
    there shouldn't be any magic around with just three sets of jumpers...
    
    At least I've done it that way:
    
    E1   E2   E3    address
    -    -    -        0
    X    -    -        1
    -    X    -        2
    X    X    -        3
    
    could it be that E3 set only is address 1? But I tried out that one
    also...
    
    Bernd
    

You should get a copy of ICD's program called "IDCHECK".  It doesn't
require an ICD host adaptor to run, and it will check your SCSI bus to
see what is connected.  I will upload the latest ICD stuff tonight.

    
    I gave up! There seems to be no way to select any other address than
    0 for a second RZ23. I tried out every possible termination on the bus
    and every possible jumper setting. To doublecheck the hostadaptor I
    borrowed two other brands of drives which worked ok, so it really must
    be a interfacing problem 2nd RZ23 to MAXON adaptor. I even borrowed a
    TZK50 to connect to the bus which was not seen on any address at all.
    Do we have non-standard electrical values on the SCSI bus in DEC?
    
    Bernd
     

I have an Atari 520 with a floppy and want to add an hard-disk
Looking at this topic, I see there are  ways to connect DEC hard disk
( RDxx or RZ33) to EMA  plug via special equipments (ICD ..) but it doesn't
seem so easy to have it running

I 'll go to Boston area  middle of July and could  use this opportunity to
buy these SCSI adapter and so on.

Could somebody help me giving me the last status about what I need if I connect
a RD or a RZ ( and if it works well) , an estimation of the price and
last but not least where I can buy that.

Regards

If you have read this note, you have seen this many times.

For attaching an RZ33, you need:
	- ICD Advantage host adaptor
	    There are two models, one with a battery operated time-of-day
	    clock, so that your computer always knows the time (US$89.00)
	    and one without the clock ($79.00).  Both come with 3' of
	    DMA cable (19-pin connector), and a power adaptor cable.
	- Short length of 50-pin ribbon cable
	- Power Supply capable of powering the RZ33 (1A@12V,1A@5V is a
	    good guess, I don't know the actual numbers requred).
	- A box if you like things pretty.

You are on your own for box and power supply.  You have to be a little
bit creative to roll you own equipment.  You can often get power for
$20-$30 at electronic surplus stores.  The quick solution is to get a
case and power supply of the type meant for a small IBM compatible.

To attach an RD type drive, you also need a 'SCSI Controller'.  These
have become hard to find.  I would be glad to show you some of these
disk drive configurations when you are in Boston - I have built many of
them, and still have a few.  Let me know when you are in town, and we
can get together.

    Hello all,
    
    	I see that many people have a RZxx on the atari ... OK
    
    	But to save the this contents what do you use. floppy work fine but
    it's necessary to have many many diskette.
    
    	On the SCSI it possible to use a TZ30 or a TZK50 but we have not a
    driver to connect and to backed up the RZxx.
    
    	Any person have connected a TZ or a TZK on him ATARI. If yes,
    it is possible to explain when it use it and with what driver.
    
    
    
    			Thank you to your reply ... Michel

	I have a hard drive setup which has been working fine for some
	time.  ICD host adapter, Adaptec 4000 controller, two 40 meg
	Seagate drives (ST-251 is it?).  Anyway, the other day, things
	went bad.  First thing I noticed is that the power supply (XT
	type) was no good - the fan wasn't even turning.  I got a hold
	of an old supply from an original true blue PC - only 65 watts
	but it should at least be OK to get me going again.  One of the
	drives, the boot drive of course, doesn't even spin!  - - even
	if I connect it and nothing else to the power.  The other drive
	seems to spin up fine.  Got a hold of an old RD53 type Micropolis
	drive.  This one spins up but as soon as it reaches what seems to
	be operating speed it shuts itself down!

	Any ideas or do I just have a pile of bad drives?

	thanks
	chris

Regarding backups - I backup both of my 100MB drives with floppies
without much difficulty.  If you go to about 200MB, it would be worth
going to a Syquest 44MB cartridge system for backups.  I much prefer
disk backups to tape backups, because without some exceptional
software, it is very difficult to do anything but an IMAGE backup with
tapes, and thus difficult to restore individual files.

Regarding the disks that don't spin up, it could still be a symptom of
the power supply.  Total watts is not the only issue.  Some of these
drives need those watts on the +12 wire, and many supplies are weaker in
the +12 area, although they can still provide a lot of watts at +5. 

    
    re .204 (TZK50)
    
    I tried out to connect a TZK50 to my SCSI-adapter with no luck. I still
    don't know why it didn't work, the drive simply was not seen as a
    device by the adapter. I checked out different jumper settings, but
    that didn't help either. Looks like the SCSI-bus used by my adapter is
    somehow different to what the drive expects. If I had a working drive
    a driver for the TZK50 had been the next problem. If you want to hunt
    that problem down, take a look into the Amiga notes conference, they 
    have a topic "TK50". Looks like a lot of Amiga-people use TZK50 to 
    backup their disks and with the driver of Steve Peters this seems to
    work just perfectly.
    No I'm about to checkout the possibilities of a QIC80 tapedrive. These
    usually are connected to the floppy-bus and controlled by the floppy-
    controller. Also they are very cheap in the PC-world. If that does not
    work, I'm out buying a Syquest 44 or 88 removable media harddisk. A
    44MB drive as a single unit without power supply, case, SCSI-adapter
    can be bought for about 300$. 
    
    Bernd
    
    

Most every DEC SCSI device REQUIRES that you have parity on the SCSI
bus, and the ST host adaptors that I've seen simply don't have it.  It's
easy to generate - just put a parity generator chip across the data
lines, and connect the parity output to the parity pin on the bus.  If
you run a short (two foot or less) SCSI bus, you don't really even need
SCSI buffers and terminators.  I don't remember if it's even or odd
parity that you need, but trial and error with ICD's IDCHECK should work
that out for you.

    
    I never thought of any parity on the bus so far. That really could be
    the reason. Now I'll give that TZK50 another try, using a parity
    generator. 
    
    Bernd
    

    	Hi Guys.
    
    	If any of you still have a copy ,diagrams/data ,to build the 5
    chips IBM PC bus for the ST. Could you please send me a copy ,if
    possible in English.
    
    Regards
    Michel.
    
    NCEIS1::GUERRIER / GUERRIER @NCE

Hello,

Is there anyone who has used a RD54 together with the "CT Billigloesung".
"CT Billigloesung" was a project in the German Computer journal "CT" and
used the OMTI 5520  XT controller.

Regards 
Hans 

Hi,
	Like many memebers of this conference I'm looking int a DIY hard disk.
There are now a number of outlets in the UK selling SCSI interfaces and 
PSU + case kits, although at various prices. 

	The SCSI adapters available seem to be either Supra, ICD of GE-Soft.

Does anyone have any experience with these devices in terms of differences,
reliability, features etc?

Thanks,
	Ian.

I've been using an ICD host adapter for a few years and haven't had any
problems with it. The ICD software is great and continues to get better.
ICD's host adapters are designed to allow the use of a 3' DMA cable, at the
time I bought mine Supra and Atari host adapters were only consitantly
reliable  with an 18" cable (I don't know if they've improoved them).

ICD's adapter also has workaround for a bug in Atari's SH204 and SH205 drives,
so that you can daisychain SH204/5's off of the ICD with no problems.

ICD software includes 
	error checking and reporting
	Hard drive cache
	Floppy buffer expansion
	Adjustable 40 folder bug fix
	A handfull of easy to use tools

I haven't used Supra and Atari's software for a while (ie: quite a few 
versions ago) so I'll let someone else talk about the features.

	Ray

    re .212:
    
    I have a GE-SOFT SCSI hostadapter and a Quantum LP105S since a few
    months. (GE-Soft Controller incl. SW was 150 DM and the disk was
    769 DM (in 11.91)).
    I had a problem in the beginning with GE-SOFT device driver, which
    should have the version V4.02! The LP105S is factory jumpered to SCSI
    ID 6. It should be 0 (zero), when used with the GE-SOFT hostadapter (at
    least not ID 6). 

    Okay,
    
    
    	Good morning all, and what a wonderful day it is... (Can you tell
    what this man's been doing all night???) All I have to say is
    
    IT WORKS!!!!
    
    	Finally got my ADAPTEC 4000 in the mail yesterday, and completed
    the hookup to my Maxtox 3820 disk. Using the ICD software VER 5.? I
    managed to format and partition the drive. All seems to be working just
    fine indeed.... but, (Always a but) can anyone give me some information
    on the ADAPTEC 4000? I got absolutely no documentation on it. Lots of
    jumpers etc, and I did have a problem with cabling to the Host Adapter.
    I would like to know what these jumpers are for? Any answers? Please
    post them here, I'm sure others would like to know as well. 
    
    	Now a question for all you GOOD PROGRAMERS out there. I have some
    software that I got from various mags, and loaded these onto partition
    "C" of my drive. When I access them, the screen on the ATARI goes
    black, and the software tries to access a floppy in drive "A". Is there
    any way around this. There is alot of stuff out there that I already
    have that I would like to put on my 78 or so meg, but, if I have to
    resort to the floppy, I may just scrap them all. I guess my question
    is, Is there a way to fool the software to believe that my hard disk is
    disk "A" and that it should go to there to get all that is needed. Or,
    should I use my "disk doctor" program on the disk to  read info and
    change defaults etc... (BTW, disk doctor is not a hacker program, it is
    a program I got from compuserve. This program will read in specific
    sectors of disks, so you can view and change info etc...)
    
    
    
    	Hopefully someone can help.
    
    	Maybe it's just a Drive configuration problem
    
    
    	Regards
    
    	78 megs worth SWAFF -)

    
    I had this problem with disk "A" access also. Sometimes you can
    come around this indeed with a program that is able to edit sectors.
    Search for "A:\" and replace it with "C:\" in that specific program
    that doesn't run on C. Sometimes (like in STreet Finder) this
    worked for me.
    
    Bernd
    
    

    Hi all
    
    	I may have overcome this problem of the Disk accesses. I have come
    across a new program on a recent issue of STFormat. There is a program
    called Divert that will let you do this. This program comes with a
    document file and 3 others 1 is the main .prg that enables you to run
    it an divert the drive to any other drive. 2 .tos files let you turn it
    on and off from the desktop. I have already used it, and it seems to
    work just fine. I can upload it to my directory here and make it
    accessable to all if anyone wants it. Just send me a Decmail. If I get
    enough interest, I will upload it.....
    
    
    	Send you mail to KAOFS::H_SWAFFIELD Or KAFSV1::H_SWAFFIELD
    
    
    	Thanks
    
    
    	Swaff -)
    

>                     -< ADAPTEC 4000 and other questions! >-
>    I would like to know what these jumpers are for? Any answers? Please

A-B	SCSI address LSB, Installed = 1
C-D	SCSI address
E-F	SCSI address MSB

G-H	DMA Rate, Installed = SLOW data rate. Atari ST can hadle the FAST data
	rate (ie: removed).

I-J	Installed = Enable extended command set.

K-L	Not used.

M-N	Installed = Support Syquest 312 and DMA 360 (ie: drives which
	drop seek complete during head switching).

O-P	Installed = Perform self diagnostics. See manual for more details.

R-PU	Installed = No write precompensation.

R-S	Installed = Write precompensation starts at same cylinder as reduced
	write current.

R-T	Installed = Write precompensation occurs on all cylinders.

  Hope I  copied that all correctly,

	Ray

Could someone please give me the parameters I have to use to format an RD54
with SUPFMT? I have read Note 41.39, so no. of heads should be 15 and no. of
cylinder should be 1225 (?), but how many sectors per track does it expect, 
where's the park area,...? I use an Adaptek 4000.

Thanks a lot
-Hans

RD54 automaticly parks whenever you turn off the power to it, so you never
have to run a park program on it. Which means it doesn't matter too much what
track you specify for parking, I normaly just specify one track beyond the
last track for auto parking drives.

Sectors per track is 17. If you don't do 1:1 interleave then you can use 18
sectors per track with the Adaptek controller.

	Ray

Thank you, Ray, it works now quite well.But if I format with SUPFMT, the check
for bad sectors just stops after some while without any reason. Does anyone 
know why?

And a second question: If I start SUPBOOT.PRG I can access the disk, but
how can I get the beast to autoboot with the SUPRA utilities. In the 
package there is no description and it seems that SUPUTL.PRG looks for 
SUPBOOT or SUPBOOT.SYS which isn't there either. Can someone help here?

Thanks a lot
-Hans

I don't remember how Supra does it but an explanation of how ICD does it may
help you figure it out (I'd guess Supra does it in the same fashion).

ICD's HDUTIL has an option for making the hard disk bootable, when you select
that option HDUTIL looks for A:\ICDBOOT.PRG (ie: the boot program must be on
floppy for the boot boot instalation procedure), HDUTIL copies A:\ICDBOOT.PRG
to C:\ICDBOOT.SYS (note the change in the extension from .prg to .sys). Both
ICDUTIL and SUPUTIL will also set up the boot sector on the hard drive so it
will load and run C:\???BOOT.SYS on powerup/reset.

Of course the 'C:' above can actualy be any partition.

	Ray

Strange, SUPBOOT.PRG is on the floppy, but I'll give it a try again. If I 
remember right a file selector box popped up somewhere and asked for 
SUPBOOT.*. I think I selected SUPBOOT.PRG and got something like 'wrong file
type'. Maybe I should play around in this corner.

-Hans

I'm about to try and reset the disable spinup bit on an rz23 on my VS3100,
I've got the red spoon, but what I really need to know is where do I put it.
The red spoon that is. Any Ideas ?




Brynn.

>I'm about to try and reset the disable spinup bit on an rz23 on my VS3100,
>I've got the red spoon, but what I really need to know is where do I put it.
>The red spoon that is. Any Ideas ?
>
>Brynn.


	Brynn,

	The red spoon goes into the RS423 port with the left and right arrow.

	Swaff -)

Hi there !

I'm looking for a place in Boston area (preferebly close to Nashua) where I
could get the ICD Advantage Host Adapter mentioned in .203. 

Can anybody give me a hint ?

	thanks 

		Richard

Richard,

I live in Nashua. Unfortunately, there are no more Atari dealers left in
the area. I recently needed an upgrade on an ICD Host Adapter, and had to
send to ICD for it. Your only alternative is to get lucky and find some
individual in the Nashua area willing to sell theirs.

Otherwise, the next closest place may possibly be the Bit Bucket, in Newton
Massachusetts. But they have cut their Atari stock in the past year, so may
not have it.

Don

Bit bucket doesn't tend to stock host adaptors.  If you walk in and ask
for one they will tell you that can order it and get it in a couple of
days, which is true.  However, if you are only going to be here a few
days, I could be coaxed into ordering one from Toad Computer and having
here in Maynard for you when you arrive.  Even better would be to get
somebody that is already in Nashua to do this for you.

Hi !

Thanks for the info. I will do what you suggested as soon as my next trip
is scheduled.

	best regards

		Richard

    Hi all,

    Last week I decided to roll-my-own...

    Start was with...
    MegaST4 with Eickmann EX60 HD (a German product, actually an upgraded
    20MB Atari HD) and a SQ555 44MB removable cartdridge drive with a Lacom
    SCSI hostadaptor (LAADAP2).

    ...and I wanted to add a RZ23.

    First problem was auto spinup. I connected the drive to my VS3100 and
    run the little macro hack (found somewhere in here) to enable auto spinup.

    Then at home:

    Just clipped a second connector onto the SCSI 50 pin ribbon cable that
    run from the host adaptor to the SQ555, set the SCSI id on the RZ23 and
    rebooted. The SQ555 was last on the bus and has terminators installed.

    All my SCSI tools (the things that came with the EX60 and the Lacom
    software) could see everything.

    Reformatted the RZ23 and got 100.03MB of diskspace. Partitioned and
    then rebooted the computer. Wow!!

    Problems started when I copied the first file onto the RZ23. I could
    create a folder and I got the file (with 0Bytes!) and then the computer
    shouted at me: YOUR OUTPUT DEVICE DOES NOT RESPOND!

    Crash!
    
    It took me about 15 minutes to realize that the format did not succeed.
    Fortunately I had a hardcopy of this note and all replies. Browsing
    through it brought me to the JUMPER E4!

    Setting this jumper E4 on the drive and starting over again. Format did
    succeed as before. Partitioned and rebooted. Wow again!

    NO PROBLEMS when trying to use the new drive. Everything works as
    expected.  ---> The jumper E4 MUST be used to format the drive. If it
    is not there you only think you formatted, you get no clue of any
    failure.

    The RZ23 is very silent (actually too silent: I miss the accoustic
    feedback of disk access) and its very fast compared with the EX60.

    Booting from the RZ23 is possible with both my HD drivers (the EX60 and
    the Lacom driver can be used).
    
    The drive is also fully supported by Spectre.

    About bus termination:
    The RZ23 has no terminators installed. There are sockets for terminator
    packs. These sockets are filled with some sort of glue. Don't worry
    about this. This stuff is there to protect the connectors. Just insert
    the terminator packs. Their pins go right through the glue and make
    perfect contact. As I changed the order of the SQ555 and the RZ23 on
    the bus I had to remove the terminators from the SQ555. They fit
    perfectly into the RZ23 sockets.

    No problem! Actually the biggest part was deviding the 100MB into
    usefull sized partitions and organizing the placement of all the
    software. There's a damned lot of stuff that fills up your precious
    diskspace and you do not even rememeber that you have that proggy!

    Next will be the Dave Small's SST. It arrived yesterday. Unfortunately
    I won't have time within the next couple of days to play with it, but I
    will report in a new topic when my SST is ready for take-off.

    ---markus---

    Hi,
    
     I have a 40mB ST506 harddisk and a OMTI 5520 ctlr in this note I read 
    that there is a cheap solution to connect this setup to the Atari DMA
    port. Is there somebody who can help me to acquire the circuit
    schematics and software needed?
    
    Any help will be appreciated
    
    Jos van Loendersloot (JGODCL::LOENDERSLOOT)

You need a host adaptor to connect the OMTI SCSI port to the ST DMA
port.  Your options are:

	1 - Buy ICD's
	2 - Buy Supra's or BMS's
	3 - Buy one of the ones made in Europe that we don't have in the US 
	4 - Make one using the DGC plans

1 is about $100US
2 is about $75US
3 I assume is competitive with 1 and 2
4 is very time consuming and incompatible with standard hard drive
software, and therefore not recommended.  However, if you insist, I can
send you a copy of the plans.

Well yet another success story. I received my ICD AdSCSI board yesterday,
and have now got my RZ23 connected to my ST.

Success wasn't immediate however, when I booted up the ICD disk, the format
program from the AUTO folder rekons I have no clock, and aborts.
However despite frantic cable checking I coldn't get the thing to work.

I then tried the scan SCSI bus program, which saw the RZ disk OK, also the 
speed testing program was able to read/write to the disk OK, so I was a tad
puzzled. 

I started up the format program by clicking on it, and was able to run through
the whole format/partition procedure with no problems. The disk works fine,
it even boots (from cold power up too).

It's lovely and fast, with lots of storage space, all I've got to do now is
make a box for the whole mess.  

One problem remains, if I auto boot the floppy, it still rekons that there is no
clock and aborts. Is this going to cause me problems in the future ?

Brynn.

    RE:.233
    
    I want the C't option, because its cheap (I build the simular project
    for the AMIGA 500) and the controller and harddisk is not SCSI, but
    ST506 (the PC-XT drive standard). The C't project gives me an
    interface from the ATARI-ASCI DMA bus to a XT-slot.
    Anybody for the schematics and articles?
    
    Regards
    
    Jos van Loendersloot

    Sorry,
    
    I not replying with the schematics.  I have a question about
    folderXX.prg.  I use ICD software and I have noticed it reserves it's
    own extra folder space.  The question I have is, do I still have to to
    use FOLDERXX.prg?
    
    Thanks in advance
    
    Joe

    
    re. -1
    
    no, you don't. ICD's driver does the same as the autofolder-program
    
    Bernd
    
    

    thanks, that's what I thought.
    
    J

    Anyone out there know if its possible to connect a RF30 to an Atari ?
    This drive is referred to as a DSSI ISE. How different is DSSI from
    SCSI?

    
    very much simplified you could say that DSSI is a modified SCSI that
    is dual-ported. I doubt that you can connect it to a SCSI hostadapter.
    
    Bernd
    
    

    No, DSSI isn't a modification of SCSI.  They both use a 50 pin flat
    cable and both support a maximum of 8 devices per bus, but apart from
    that there's no resemblance between them - they're neither pin
    nor protocol compatible.
    
    FWIW, DSSI uses much higher level protocols (SCA, MSCP, TMSCP, DUP,
    etc...) and much smarter host adapters than SCSI.  It was designed to
    be largely self-configuring and give high throughput in a multi-host,
    multi-processing, virtual memory timesharing environment while using
    minimal host CPU time.  For example:  You can currently have up to 3
    hosts each sending multiple commands to the same DSSI disk, which will
    queue them up (and even reorder them to minimize total seek time!) for
    processing while the host CPU's go off and do something else.
    
    On the minus side, DSSI requires intelligent host adapters and large,
    complex device drivers - and gives very little performance gain over
    SCSI for simple single host/single user (e.g. PC or workstation)
    environments.  It's theoretically possible to hang a DSSI disk off an
    Atari, but why bother?
    
    In short, the best use for your RF30 is to swap it for a SCSI drive.

    Can you give the address of the manud. of the board please and the
    cost...
    
    	Cheers,
    
    	Chris

    Thanks very much will order one soon :-)
    
    	Cheers,
    
    	Chris

Hi folks,

	I recently put together an RZ23 and ICD ADSCSI controller for my STE. The
hard disk part all works fine, system boots OK from hard drive, reads writes OK,
but after firts boot from power on, the STE insists that my floppy drive doesn't
exist (thats literally the message I get when I try to access it). The icons are
there OK, (they come from the desktop.inf on the hard drive). If I perform a 
reboot (by using the reset button) then floppy drives exist OK.

	I checked with the supplier, Power Computing, and apart from offering to
check out the ICD controller, weren't very helpful. They say there are
intermittent problems with ICD controllers which they cant find, but this is
consistent, and seems more like a software than hardware problem to me. Has
anyoe come accross this before?

	I can boot from floppy OK (by holding down the ctrl, lshift and alt keys
during boot), and then access the floppies and hard disk OK.

	My STE has Rainbow TOS (s that v1.62?) and I'm using ICD's hard driver
V5.5.0, which I'm assured is the latest.

	Although its not stopping me working, its annoying, so any suggetions
appreciated.

thanks
	Ian.

    Is it possible to have more of 500 Mb on Hard disk with the ICD ADSCSI
    controller. Hard partitionning with 10 x 50 Mb.
    
    	Michel

>                -< Almost success, but where's my floppy gone? >-

I have this problem too.  The ICD controller attaches to the same DMA
bus as the floppy controller, and I suspect that it is stuck in a state
that is jamming the bus.

I found it works better if I let the hard drive spin up before turning
on the computer.

I get this behavior on both the STE and on the TT when used with the ICD
host adaptor and an RZ23L drive.

re .248

thanks Jeff, I'm relieved its a known problem.

/Ian

Bernd,
	way back in reply .249, you alluded to the use of a qic-80 tape drive on
the floppy bus of the ST.

	did you ever get that to work ? As I now have access to one such
tape.

Brynn.

    
    re. -1
    
    well, I was looking for a backup device for my system once I had my 
    hands on a very big disk. Thinking about tapes (I tried out a TK50
    with a TZK50 controller with no success on my ICD SCSI adapter, problem
    was a driver...) I also took a QIC40/80 Colorado Streamer into
    consideration. I never had one, tho. I wanted to find out if it works
    before I spent the money. Sorry, I never tried it out. For sure you
    need some software even if you can operate the streamer on the Shugart-
    bus. QIC40 and QIC80 are connected to the Floppy-Bus, but some kind of
    software has to recalculate disk -sectors and -tracks to tape-blocks
    and vice versa. Not an easy task, I think. I am stuck with a Syquest
    removable media disk now for my backup needs, and this is just perfect.
    If I will get a device driver for tapes somehow, I'll try a tape again.
    But this will be on the SCSI-Bus. For now my primary targets are
    CD-ROMs...
    
    Bernd 

    I read everywhere about SCSI terminators which you can plug into a
    RZ23, but what about a partnumber.Is there anybody who can give me
    a dec-partnumber of this resistor-pack. Thanks in advance.
    
    					best regards Ton Drummen
    

    Does anybody know how to use an ULTRIX workstation to set a disk
    to auto spin up??
    
    mike
    

    Use the 'rzdisk' utility to do this. Try this, assuming that you want
    to modify the disk known as /dev/rrz3:
    
    rzdisk -c ask /dev/rrz3c
    
    It will report current values and ask you what to change them to. When
    done be sure to save the values. The disk must NOT be currently mounted
    when you do this.
    
    Check the manpage for more info about rzdisk.
    
    Dan
    

Hi all,

A question, maybe a stupid one, but I just don't know any better.
I searched through this Notesfile, but didn't get much wiser.

I may be able to lay my hands on an RD52 or RD53. What do I
need to attach it to my 1040 STFM? I don't have a hardisk yet,
so: Is a controller built in in the Atari? I'm told the RD drives
'talk' ST506. Does the Atari? Convertors?
How much will it approx. cost?

Any hint or pointer is welcome!

Thanks,

Bernd

The answer to your question is in this topic *somewhere*.

If you have a bare RD52 or RD53 type of drive, you need:

	- ICD host adaptor (any model) to go from Atari 19-pin to SCSI.

	- Adaptek 4000 series or OMTI controller to go from SCSI to ST506.

	- Ribbon cables:
		- 34-pin controller to ST506 (Edge card to edge card)
		- 20-pin controller to ST506 (Header to edge card)
		- 50-pin SCSI host adaptor to controller (Header to header)

	- Power supply, and perhaps a cabinet, for the whole mess.

	- To format and init the drive, you will need to know #heads,
	#cyl, etc.  This information is in
		PRNSYS::DUA2:[LOMICKAJ.HOBBY.ST]DISKPARAM.TXT. 

There are other host adaptors, but ICD's is the best.  If I were you,
I'd go for the "Link", and build your drive as a generic SCSI drive, so
that you can recycle it in the future when you decide to abandon Atari
and get a Macintosh.

The best place to get the ICD host adaptor is Toad Computers.  However,
Toad no longer carries the Adaptek or OMTI controllers.  To get one of
those, you need to hunt electronics surplus places, such as TimeLine,
which often has Adaptek controllers.  (Actually, I have a pile of them. 
I'm not sure that they all work, but I can test them and sell them.  Any
takers?  I should either sell them or build them into Mac drives...)

Toad will charge a lot for cables if they have to make them for you. 
You should be able to do better locally.

           <<< MSBCS::DISK$HOTFILES2:[NOTES$LIBRARY]ATARIST.NOTE;2 >>>
                       -< Atari's 68000 based systems. >-
================================================================================
Note 806.41                          WANT AD                            41 of 42
HLDE01::STEENWINKEL "A witty saying proves nothing"  25 lines  14-OCT-1993 04:26
                     -< looking for ST hard disk adapter >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hello all,
    
    I'm looking to enhance a friend's ST with a harddisk. Since I have an
    Omti 5520 and several ST506 disks, the most appropriate would be to
    build the C't adapter described in several replies to note 41. I even
    had the volume it was described in, but apparently lost it during a
    move. So I'm looking for (in decreasing priority):
    
    - a copy of the article
    - a floppy with the drivers (I know next to nothing about Atari
    programming, and I don't know if she has any tools with her ST I'd need
    to write/compile them; I'm from PC-land)
    - the adapter board (either built-up or empty, doesn't matter)
    
    Another option would be a ST-to-SCSI converter with drivers; it would
    be quite possible to find some small SCSI disk to go with it.
    
    Please reply by mail to HLDE01::STEENWINKEL, since I don't regularly
    read this file. Note that I'm in the Netherlands, which may matter
    w.r.t. sending stuff.
    
    Thanks in advance.

Rik Steenwinkel @ APD (Apeldoorn, Netherlands)
HLDE01::STEENWINKEL
DTN 829-2194
Loc. F2A2/3
    
                                                        

    Hi,
    	I'm wanting to buy a hard disk for my 1040Ste, but the problem is I
    don't know where to start !!!!
    	Do I have to use a Atari type product or can I connect a PC
    hard-disk ??
    	All replies gratefully received.
    
    						Rod.
    

    Hi, I'm no expert on this but here is what I did. Not wanting to
    experiment, I purchased a TRANSLATOR (SCSI interface - plugs into MIDI
    port) and a MiniS 105MB SCSI disk (neat little box with its own power
    supply, internal SCSI termination, two SCSI connectors, ID switch and
    fan). These were purchased from System Solutions here in UK.
    I am aware of RZnn drives being connected but do not knoew the details.
    I believe that most/all early PC's use an IDE controller; so to use a
    PC disk you would probably need the equivalent controller for the
    Atari. An alternative to the TRANSLATOR (also available in UK) is the
    ICD LINK (also plugs into MIDI port).
    BTW, my system is a 520 STe upgraded to 4MB.
    I am sure you will get some expert replies on how and what drives.
    
    Norman

    Hi,
    	Thanks for the information but there's a big problem with the
    connection of the hard-disk......I only use my ST for MIDI and
    sequencing. If I conected a hard-disk this way, I wouldn't be able to
    use the computer for what I bought it for.
    
    	Does anybody know how to solve the problem ??????
    
    
    						ROD.
    

    Howdy Rod,
    
    Which side of the Atlantic are you hailing from?  If you're in the US
    then I can refer you to TOAD computers or anyone else selling ICD hard
    drive interfaces.  The ICD interfaces I use plug into the DMA port on
    the Atari and will accept any SCSI drive.  Let me know if you're
    interested and I'll leave more info on locating products, pricing,
    specs, etc.  If you're on the other side of the big pond though I'm not
    sure how much I can help.
    
                           .....Chris.....
    

    Hi Chris,
    		Thanks for the info, but I'm in the UK (Scotland). I'm
    going to phone up a few places this weekend to see if they can help
    with my problem.
    		Does anyone in the UK have any further information ??
    
    						Rod.
    

    
     Hi Rod,
    
    	The easiest way to add a SCSI hard disk to your system is
    to get ICDs 'The Link' which plugs into the DMA port and
    takes power from the SCSI term. power line. It comes with
    ICD driver and utility software, but does not support SCSI
    drives on which parity is enabled.
        'The Link II' is an updated version of 'The Link' and
    as far as I understand, it is the same as the 'Link' but
    supports SCSI parity and has an LED indicator to show that
    it is receiving power from the drive.
          'System Solutions' in the UK are among those suppliers
    in the UK which stock ICD's 'Link', but there are other
    suppliers too, many of whom advertise in the Atari mags.
    
       Connecting a SCSI drive via. the 'Link' to the DMA port
    will not affect the midi ports, I have used my STFM for
    midi purposes with the 'Link' and SCSI disks attached without
    problems.
    
    Brian
    

    Hi Brian,
    		Thanks for the information. I'll see if I can get one this
    weekend.
    	
    
    							ROD.
    
    p.s. Any idea how much it costs for 'The Link' ?????
    

    If I remember correctly it's about 50 pounds, but a lot of mail order
    firms are selling hard disks with the link included.  I don't know
    whether you'd be better off buying the link seperately or buying the
    hard disk and link together, it depends on how much you can get an
    external scsi drive for
    
    Mark
    UK CSC

    
     I think Mark's right about mail order firms tending now towards
    selling hard disks with the Link or Translator included, so it
    may be possible to get a 'good deal' with a disk-plus-adapter
    package.
     I've had a flip through 'ST User' which I happen to have
    here and see that the 'Link II' seems to be 89.95ukp which is
    more expensive than the earlier 'Link I' and that 'The Translator'
    from Systems Solutions is 69.95ukp.
    
    Brian
    

	Hi Rod,

		At the start you were talking about maybe using an IDE
	drive (I think it was you anyway??).  If my memory serves me 
	right, I vaguely remember reading somewhere that a german company
	had produced some kind of adaptor that allowed you to connect an
	IDE hard drive to your ST.  I think it was somewhere in an issue
	of ST Format.

		If the adaptor exists, (and it's not too expensive), then
	it might be worthwhile looking into it, 'cos IDE drives are a lot
	cheaper than their SCSI counterparts. (Although ofcourse SCSI are
	faster drives.)

	I don't know if thats of any help......probably not unless I can 
	find that reference again!

James.
CSC Basingstoke.

    Rod, as you can see from some of the replies; I mean DMA port NOT Midi
    port in my reply .260. Apologies for confusing the issue.
    
    Norman