T.R | Title | User | Personal Name | Date | Lines |
---|
2156.1 | So does Lynch, most of the time | CAVLRY::BUCK | Sherman, set the wayback mach to 1928! | Wed Mar 27 1991 12:14 | 1 |
| Malmsteen uses his bar for most of his vibrato work
|
2156.2 | tough nuts | TOOK::SUDAMA | Living is easy with eyes closed... | Wed Mar 27 1991 14:17 | 15 |
| I've been playing electric for almost 25 years, and I've *never* been
satisfied with my vibrato. It's not that I can't play vibrato, I can.
I'm also pretty versatile in vibrato, and it is pretty natural for me,
because I've practiced it a lot. But to me, vibrato is one of the most
distinctive things in a player's style. And I always feel like I
could improve on it when I see other players who have good vibrato
technique.
By the way, I don't have a whammy bar, and have never liked them. I
realize I'm in the minority among electric guitarists in this regard,
but to me the concepts of "vibrato" and "whammy bar" are totally
orthogonal. I know what can be done by a good player with a whammy bar,
but comparing it to a really good use of vibrato makes me want to puke.
- Ram
|
2156.3 | | RAVEN1::JERRYWHITE | Real men don't need whammies ! | Wed Mar 27 1991 15:12 | 9 |
| I think your vibrato is your "signature" ... I hate mine, it's WAY to
fast (IMO), but I've tried and I can't seem to change it.
It's ok though, I've heard people say "... your vibrato sounds like
so_and_so ...", or "... I could tell that was your lead without
watching the band ..", due to my vibrato ... live with it. 8^)
Scary
|
2156.4 | Practice, Practice, Practice | TRAM::BBOLDT | | Wed Mar 27 1991 15:46 | 8 |
| I'm kind of lucky. I am left handed but forced myself to play right
handed. This gives me a lot of strength in my left hand. However, my
picking really suffers. All I can say is keep working on it. I know
that my picking has improved dramatically since I started doing picking
exercises every day. By the way, check out John Sykes' vibrato, one of
the best I've heard.
Byron
|
2156.5 | Don't "puke" all over me please | MR4DEC::SAKELARIS | | Wed Mar 27 1991 16:52 | 11 |
| Re .2
>> I know what can be done by a good player with a whammy bar,
>> but comparing it to a really good use of vibrato makes me want to puke.
I gotta disagree, Ram. One thing I do quite often that I think is
an interesting effect is to bend a note and hold it (allow it to
sustain), and then wiggle the bar to add vibrato to the raised note.
|
2156.6 | | CAVLRY::BUCK | Sherman, set the wayback mach to 1928! | Wed Mar 27 1991 17:13 | 2 |
| I agree with the sakman...good vib arm work, ya dcan;'t tell the dif
bettwen hand and bar vib!
|
2156.7 | At the top of a bend ??? | KERNEL::FLOWERS | I have a burning ambition... | Wed Mar 27 1991 17:22 | 11 |
|
Is everybody talking about the same thing? I don't reckon my vibrato is
that bad and I don't find it very difficult to do (either up-down or
side to side).........unless you are trying to do it at the top of a
bend....(listen to Gilmour).....whats the trick?? Is it a matter of
finger strength???
(Is this what you asked Tony?)
J.
|
2156.8 | | PROTO2::KMCDONOUGH | Set Kids/Nosick | Wed Mar 27 1991 17:54 | 26 |
|
All IMH(usually uninformed)O.......8-)
Bending the string and vibrato are actually two different beasts.
Bending just means fretting a note and then pushing or pulling the
string to match the note you really wanted, which is usually a whole
step or more up. Kepping it at that matched note is the tricky part.
Vibrato is shaking the string, from a little to a lot, to get the note
to sustain and take on a certain richness. Without letting it go sharp
or flat. Tough to describe.
When you add vibrato to a bend, you first bend the note to match the
note you really want, and then shake the string enough to sustain it
without letting it go sharp or flat.
To improve your technique, first master bending a note to match your
desired note and holding it *exactly*. In your struggle to do this you
will probably develop a reasonable vibrato. 8-)
Kevin
|
2156.9 | | GSRC::COOPER | Major MIDI Rack Puke (tm) | Wed Mar 27 1991 19:47 | 12 |
| I definately prefer the whammy bar.
I've tried for years to master the "bent string+vibrato ala Clapton"
technique. No can do... Best that I've heard was from Steve 'Bulldawg'
Dandrea. he was real good at it. He told me it took him years to
perfect. He was a big Clapton fan...
I bend the string the desired note, and grab some whammy. It's
easier by far, and sounds just as good, IMHO...although even that
takes a pretty fine-line approach... It's really easy to get outta
control...Especially on those Ibanez "Edge" tails... It's too tempting
to go nutz with that thing ala Vernon Reid.
|
2156.10 | But it gives me a grin sometimes | GOES11::G_HOUSE | Stereotype, monotype, blood type... | Wed Mar 27 1991 20:14 | 6 |
| > It's too tempting to go nutz with that thing ala Vernon Reid.
Me and Vernon, we be mates. Most people wanna take the whammy bar off
my guitar after hearing me play...
Greg
|
2156.11 | | CHEFS::DALLISON | Stick it to ya! | Thu Mar 28 1991 09:51 | 17 |
|
I never realised that Lynch used the arm! Anyway, there are things that
can be donr with an arm that can't be done without. For example, if you
vibrate a string with you fingers, you can only raise the pitch (unless
your vibrating a bent string), With a whammy you can vibrate the pitch
higher and lower - it has a much more 'sad' quality.
So, any good exercises about, for bending notes ?
Re: Jason,
Its easy to do if you want a subtle effect, but if you want a wide
sweeping vibrato (like a whole tone or more) then it turns more into
fast string bends rather than a swivel-hand-from-side-to-side type
technique.
-Tony
|
2156.12 | ... I love the way he SQUEALS | ELWOOD::HERTZBERG | History: Love It or Leave It! | Thu Mar 28 1991 17:07 | 13 |
2156.13 | | GERBIL::PELKEY | With a third less polyunsaturates | Mon Apr 01 1991 16:42 | 18 |
| There are two classics that are (I think) masters at vibrato.
George Lynch, and Steve Via.
To my ears, these two dudes got great vibrato.
Most of the time, I think, subconciously, we just go too fast, kind
sounds 'rippley' instead of a vibrato. when I've listened to
tapes, and tried to concentrate on listening to vibrato, I think
most of the problem I had was speed... I've simply slowed
down my finger movement, and it's seemed to help. Took some dicsipline
to control it throught out, but eventually, I was able to get what
I wanted, and be happier with it.
I feel I've got a decent bend/vibrato combination,..
Whammys... well, I personally don't lay on mine enough to make
it part of the vibrato thing,, so I just couldn't see using
a whammy instead of a finger for vibrato...
|
2156.14 | More on vibrato | GSRC::COOPER | Major MIDI Rack Puke (tm) | Mon Apr 01 1991 17:41 | 5 |
| I think Whammy bars actually make a "better" vibrato than fingers,
but it just doesn't "flow" or sound as natural. "wild" vibratos
sound cool in some applications, me thinks.
jc
|
2156.15 | Nah I don't like the sound... | BEEZER::FLOWERS | I have a burning ambition... | Tue Apr 02 1991 06:34 | 11 |
|
I'm sorry to say that I tried using my whammy for vibrato and it just
doesn't cut it for me....sounds too.....err.....well it just sounds
wrong!
I still can't get the vibrato at the top of a bend tho', the closest
I've come is to bend a note, hold it, and then sort of shake the guitar
up and down....sounds ok once you have worked out where the balance
point of the guitar is.
J.
|
2156.16 | Whats the argument? | WENDYS::BRIGGSR | They use computers don't they? | Tue Apr 02 1991 06:49 | 20 |
|
Apart from the question of whether vibrato can be produced more
effectively using fingers or tremelo arm I really can see no
relationship between the two 'mechanisms'. They are as alike as chalk
and cheese.
As was rightly said earlier, you can bend a note (or chord even) down
using a tremelo arm and I happen to think this is where its best used.
To hit a long sustained note and just lower the pitch a fraction, not
even a semi tone, produces a lovely tension which is dying to be
resolved to the correct pitch. Quite often this effect is seen by the
layman as 'playing out of tune'. The same people also think someone
singing harmony is out of tune!
As for speed of vibrato, I'd always thought that *ideally* you should be
aiming for some multiple of the speed of the music. So, a 120 beats/min
piece would require a vibrato of 120 pitch changes (or 240, 480 or 360
in triplet time) etc. Similar to the use of delay effects.
Richard
|
2156.17 | Clarification? | BEEZER::FLOWERS | I have a burning ambition... | Tue Apr 02 1991 07:30 | 10 |
|
Yo Richard....no argument.....all I was saying was that taking a note
to the top of a bend and then using your fingers to apply vibrato seems
impossible to do (I know, practice,practice,practice) someone suggested
using the whammy and I admit it works but it is just not the
sound/effect that I am after. I agree with the chalk and cheese
statement tho' they sound *totally* different........or maybe they
don't and I just can't do either one properly!!!
J.
|
2156.18 | how does it sound | COPCLU::SANDGREN | Lhep! I'm trpdd ina P11D*P | Tue Apr 02 1991 08:15 | 13 |
|
Well, Jaydot, what actually happens when you try to bend a
note and make vibrato on top of it?
If nothing happens, you'll need more fingerstrength, until
you can bend the thin E to the upper edge of the fretboard
and then make vibrato there ;^)...
To me, there's no RIGHT or WRONG way to make vibrato...it's
a matter of style and/or like or dislike.
Poul
|
2156.19 | Squiffy! | BEEZER::FLOWERS | I have a burning ambition... | Tue Apr 02 1991 08:43 | 10 |
|
What happens.....well if I am bending up and then try to apply vibrato
it all goes a bit squiffy and sounds like a cat with its tail on fire.
If I bend down (using the E,A or D strings) I can get it sounding
passable.
More strength you reckon? and I figured I had strong fingers!!!
J.
|
2156.20 | a new style | COPCLU::SANDGREN | Lhep! I'm trpdd ina P11D*P | Tue Apr 02 1991 09:47 | 14 |
|
>What happens.....well if I am bending up and then try to apply vibrato
>it all goes a bit squiffy and sounds like a cat with its tail on fire.
Could be an advantage! Well, depends on your choise of music!
Seriously, the only way to get a good bending/vibrato tech-
nique, is practice, practice, practice. It's only a matter
of patience...try to stay on the same note and bend, bend,
vibrate, vibrate...also applying a good deal of aggression
helps. Be violant, man! ;^)
Poul
|
2156.21 | You will vibrate damn you! | BEEZER::FLOWERS | I have a burning ambition... | Wed Apr 03 1991 07:10 | 20 |
|
Thanks Poul,
I *can* do it!!!! It still needs loads of practice to get it a little
more fluid but using some aggression really did the trick.....I don't
no why I didn't 'get mad' at it before!!
As an aside I think there must be something spooky about notes, I write
in and complain that after weeks of pratice I can't do it and then a
week later....whoosh.....it happens. Has anyone else discovered that
they practice for ages and then maybe even get disheartend and stop
praticing it (I did with the intro to Sweet child o' mine) and then a
couple of days later have another go and it happens?? Makes me wonder
if my fingers are teasing me........."Ok guys let him practice this
lick for a week but I want one of you to randomly do your own thing,
when he gives up remember what he wanted you to do and next time he
tries do it right and blow his mind...heh,heh,heh."
J :-) (Happy finger wiggler)
|
2156.22 | | CHEFS::DALLISON | Stick it to ya! | Wed Apr 03 1991 09:35 | 4 |
|
Well, I've put in more practise and my stringbending and vibrato is
coming along. I guess its just one of those things that you're never
really satisfied with.
|
2156.23 | Interesting observation | GOES11::G_HOUSE | Stereotype, monotype, blood type... | Thu Apr 04 1991 00:49 | 8 |
| re: .21
You are not alone! I often find that I practice something for long
periods of time with relatively little success and then one day it
starts happening for some reason. I can't explain why or how, but a
lot of times it's really quick like that.
Greg
|
2156.24 | playing difficulties | MASALA::IGOLDIE | The Incendiary Preacher | Thu Apr 04 1991 01:06 | 7 |
| I get that too but I thought it was just me,sometimes I practice for
hours and sound terrible then there is the times I could just pick up
a guitar and sound like Eddie Van Halen.
Staynz
|
2156.25 | Not exactly what I ment | GOES11::G_HOUSE | Stereotype, monotype, blood type... | Thu Apr 04 1991 01:13 | 12 |
| > I get that too but I thought it was just me,sometimes I practice for
> hours and sound terrible then there is the times I could just pick up
> a guitar and sound like Eddie Van Halen.
But dude, that just sounds like inconsistancy to me. I'm like that too
(pretty severely sometimes). What I'm talking about is that sudden
inexplainable quantum leap in learning. You know where you practice
something for a long time and never quite get it and then one day you
go to play it and it comes out just right and then you can play it
right consistantly after that?
Greg (who needs a lotta leaps right now)
|
2156.26 | my 2 bits | GIDDAY::KNIGHTP | | Thu Apr 04 1991 04:28 | 17 |
| This Bending of a note and then applyingvibrato at the top of
the bend is one of the major ways of telling guitar player
styles apart. Two good exponants of this are Gilmour and
Knophler. Gilmour bends the not and then applies avibrato
by raising the tremolo arm up and down slightly and relatively
slowly (this is done only above the centre point of the tremolo's
swing). Knophler does it just by use of his left hand and what's
interesting is what someone else mentioned in this note is that
he is left handed so that gives him greater strength in his neck hand.
RE 9 I can't think of anythng I've heard or seen Clapton play
where he has bent a note up a tone or so and then applied vibrato.
I've only seen him say bend the g string 5th fret up a tone and then
play 2nd string 3rd fret flat and vibrato that by sort of realeasing
the neck from the palm of his hand and quikly shaking it up and down.
P.K.
|
2156.27 | P.S. | GIDDAY::KNIGHTP | | Thu Apr 04 1991 04:30 | 1 |
| Whats the differance between a whammy bar and a tremolo bar is??????
|
2156.28 | Same Thing | WASTED::tomg | Leo Fender - R.I.P. | Thu Apr 04 1991 10:45 | 0 |
2156.29 | | CHEFS::DALLISON | Stick it to ya! | Thu Apr 04 1991 11:22 | 8 |
|
Re: Claptons vibrato
Check out the beginning to the Phil Collins song "I wish it would
rain". Clapton bends the A (14th fret) on the G string up a whole
tone a applys vibrato. Its subtle but its there.
-Tony
|
2156.30 | | NEEPS::IRVINE | young enough not to choose it | Thu Apr 04 1991 11:29 | 5 |
| But is he applying vibrato in the sence of push/pull on the string
or is he simply (watch for the technical term here 8*) waggling
his finger in the fret with the note bent up ?
Bonzo
|
2156.31 | couldn't resist | COPCLU::SANDGREN | Lhep! I'm trpdd ina P11D*P | Thu Apr 04 1991 12:00 | 7 |
|
I think he's definitely doing the first (push/pull). The waggle
is something you do with a woman, I think....;^) Excuse me fe-
male readers...
Poul
|
2156.32 | | WELCLU::GREENB | In a euphoric state | Thu Apr 04 1991 12:10 | 17 |
| I can't say I know that track too well, but I don't find bending
strings in pitch too hard, and managing a vibrato while bent by
waggling, as it has been put so succinctly, is pretty easy too. Mind
you, my bends tend to be on slower runs in a more bluesy vein, on
faster (well, faster for me, anyway) runs I tend not to use string
bends.
To me, accurate(ish) string bending is just a matter of getting the
feel of the guitar and knowing how far to pull the string across. As I
say, I tend to bend only on slower runs, so there is usually time for a
bit of adjustment to the right pitch, which can also masquerade as
playing with extreme emotion (oblig winkie).
BTW, by 'waggling', I take it to mean across the fretboard rather than
the previously-mentioned 'shake'.
Bob
|
2156.33 | | DNEAST::BOTTOM_DAVID | victim of unix... | Thu Apr 04 1991 18:00 | 13 |
| I've found that I get a great deal more control of bends/vibrato if I use
more than one finger to do it...
So anything you'd usse your ring finger to bend, use bnoth the ring and the
middle. This takes some getting used to but has worked well for me for the
last ten years or so. Also for first finger vibratos, I use the BB King
approach (although I developed it independantly, and noticed he did it the same
way when watching a tv show). I actually pivot my first finger on the edge of
the neck and push/pull the string using that leverage point, rather than trying
to use a steady up/down motion. This requires you to use a rolling motion of
your wrist to do. It's difficult to explain but easy to demo in person.
dbii
|
2156.34 | | GSRC::COOPER | Major MIDI Rack Puke (tm) | Thu Apr 04 1991 18:06 | 6 |
| Sheeesh, I'm not even a Clapton fan (I think thats well documented
here) but I can think of a LOT of tracks where he bends and vibratos.
Check out (to name a few), Bell Bottom Blues (one of my faves), Badge,
Sunshine and a lot of the junk he did with Cream.
jc
|
2156.35 | Strange is what it is! | GOES11::G_HOUSE | Stereotype, monotype, blood type... | Thu Apr 04 1991 20:06 | 7 |
| I noticed Clapton's vibrato technique when I was watching him on some
TV show once and thought that was the wierdest thing I'd ever seen! It
seems to work well for him, but I've tried to do it a couple of times
and can't even come close to making it sound right. I've never seen
anyone that used a technique like his.
Greg
|
2156.36 | I dunno???? | GIDDAY::KNIGHTP | | Fri Apr 05 1991 01:11 | 7 |
| I am going to go home and check out my Clapton videos and see if I can
see him bending up say a tone and then applying vibrato. Because of his
vibrato technique it seems impossible, because when you watch him do it
the only part of his hand in constant contact with the neck is the
finger playing the note.
P.K.
|
2156.37 | | NEEPS::IRVINE | young enough not to choose it | Fri Apr 05 1991 07:41 | 7 |
| What I mean by `waggling' or is it shake is bending the string to
the required pitch, then using a lateral motion. More like a
`Classical' guitarists vibrato...
Works fer me!
Bonzo
|
2156.38 | wagglers unite | PAKORA::IGOLDIE | The Incendiary Preacher | Fri Apr 05 1991 07:48 | 8 |
| I used to be a waggler but my guitar tutor went mental and told me
to try another way ie the tip of the finger on the string and gently
rocking your hand back and forth(does this make sense?)I found it
easier with practice,but its like almost everything with guitarist,it
purely up to the player.
Staynz
|
2156.39 | | NEEPS::IRVINE | young enough not to choose it | Fri Apr 05 1991 11:29 | 4 |
| Thats Exactly what I meant by waggling, rocking the tip of the finger
laterally in the fret!
Bonzo 8*)
|
2156.40 | | WELCLU::GREENB | In a euphoric state | Fri Apr 05 1991 11:58 | 7 |
| If anyone would like to compile a glossary of terms used to describe
different finger/hand movements used in string-bending and/or vibrato,
or combinations thereof, and enter it here, I would be very grateful.
I'd do it myself, but I'm completely confused.
Bob
|
2156.41 | I'll have a go at some... | BEEZER::FLOWERS | I have a burning ambition... | Fri Apr 05 1991 12:54 | 17 |
|
I think waggling refers to the 'Classical' vibrato technique where-by
you pick a note and add vibrato by shaking (waggling) your finger
from side to side (side to side = closer to the bridge, closer to the
nut)
The other technique is what I would call 'Rock style' vibrato where
you pick a note and add vibrato by very slightly bending the string up
and down......this is the one I apply when I am doing bends with added
vibrato.
The other way I get vibrato (which is an odd sounding very subtle one)
is where I push harder on the string causing it to stretch. I think
this one will only work if you have fairly high frets,
J
|
2156.42 | | CHEFS::DALLISON | Stick it to ya! | Fri Apr 05 1991 14:06 | 12 |
|
>> The other technique is what I would call 'Rock style' vibrato where
>> you pick a note and add vibrato by very slightly bending the string up
>> and down......this is the one I apply when I am doing bends with added
>> vibrato.
This is what I've been having problems with. A gentle semi tone vibrato
is easy, but if you try and do a full tone or two full tone then it
gets more tricky. Its like playing ten fast whole tone or two whole
tone bends - one after the other.
-Tony
|
2156.43 | I learned it from Eric | LEDS::ORSI | Tripe my shorts | Mon Apr 08 1991 11:22 | 26 |
|
I used to be a Clapton freak waaaaaayyy back when he was
with John Mayall and one of the first things I learned
was his vibrato technique. He seems to do do three things,
vibrato-wise; 1) using his index finger, pushes the
string up one-half step, then vibratos, 2) using his middle
finger, pushes the string up one-half step, then vibratos,
and 3) using both middle and ring fingers, pushes either
one-half step or a full step, then vibratos. Whichever way,
his first motion is to push the the string up (or sideways
across the fretboard, however you look at it) to start the
vibrato. Most of the Brit guitar players from 60's do it that
way. Jimmy Page, Jeff Beck, Mick Taylor, Ariel Bender, Martin
Barre, etc., all sound like they had the same guitar teacher.
Some find it easier to pull down first, but if you learn
it that way, it might be tougher to bend-to-a-note-then-
vibrato, and still make it sound smooth. I can't imagine
doing it that way, simply because it seems naturally easier
to push the string up and away, than pulling it down. When
asked about his vibrato technique, Clapton said that the
action on his guitar is fairly high so that he can get behind
the string and push it, using his wrist as the pivot.
Leslie West from Mountain took Claptons' technique to another
level. It's still the smoothest vibrato I've ever heard.
Neal
|
2156.44 | | NEEPS::IRVINE | young enough not to choose it | Tue Apr 09 1991 10:53 | 10 |
2156.45 | Looks like he's j*rking off!! 8^) | CHEFS::DALLISON | Stick it to ya! | Tue Apr 09 1991 17:57 | 8 |
|
Check out another technique George Lynch uses :-
Sometimes when he plays a note, instead of raising the string up or
down he frantically slides up the neck a whole tone and back again then
repeats the process (very quickly).
Sounds pretty wild but you'll slice your fingers up trying it!!
|
2156.46 | Raised by hand....thats me ! | TRUCKS::LITTEN | | Tue May 07 1991 12:33 | 67 |
| Folks,
I have read all 45 replies with increasing interest and would like to
offer the following opinions on the way I get/do my vibrato........
--------
1. Non bent string vibrato.
Very subtle technique.....hand off the neck apart from the
tip of your finger. Use the mass of your hand to oscillate (nut to bridge
direction).
Heavier vibrato....two ways dependant upon the finger being used. First finger
normally pivot from the wrist. Second finger use together with thumb base as a
pivot(generally). Third finger either pivot as before or use the finger only
to get the vibrato. Little pinky, support with third finger and pivot.
2. Bent string vibrato. Nearly always use one finger plus a support finger for
strength. I don't seem to have too much trouble with bent string vibrato in
fact it is the method I most often use, even when I may not need to.
For folks who are having trouble either in the vibrato or pitch control...bend
up a tone on the second/third string and let it ring against the next higher
string (ie bend third string seventh fret up against second string fifth
fret). This will give you a reference note to test eveness of pitch and
vibrato. Practice and record yourself doing this.
Try first to ONLY bend the string. This will get your pitch on track. Try
bending up to pitch, holding it for half second, then bringing the vibrato in.
Doing it this way in stages will stop you using wide vibrato to cover up poor
pitch bending. It will get your "ear" in, increase your confidence in getting
the pitch, and allow you to concentrate on the "bent vibrato". A great
practice for bending only, came from the Larry Carlton video. He recommends
playing a straight major scale by bending up every other note. Start slow and
build up.
3. General (beginners corner ).
Good vibrato comes (apart from practice) from an understanding
that you are trying to generate an even change in string pitch and to make
that change close to sinesoidial as possible. So "seeing" it as a "bend one
way..bend the other way" process will lead you to generate a "triangular"
pitch change patten (this is difficult to explain !!). The resultant vibrato
sounds "jerky".
The best way to start to feel this is to use the Mass of your hand to vibrate
rather than try to force your hand/wrist muscles into an even action. To try
and demonstrate this: rotate your wrist backwards and forwards once a second
so that you are palm down/palm up. This at this speed you are using concious
muscle control. Now speed up so you are doing maybe five or ten times a
second. Notice two things. 1. your muscles are relaxed and your hand mass is
helping to sustain and control the movement. 2. your are no longer
concentrating on going left/right etc, only on the action itself.
To get your guitar vibrato going and improving, "think" the above way and let
the mass of your hand/wrist achieve the tone and smoothness of the vibrato.
End of Sermon !
PS. By far the best piece of information on vibrato I have seen is on the
Robin Ford and Eric Johnson videos. These guys show and demonstrate their
great technique in clarity and go into the different ways of achieving it.
Dave
|
2156.47 | !@%%%#$ Floyd Rose's. | BEEZER::FLOWERS | I have a burning ambition... | Tue May 07 1991 13:04 | 9 |
|
Re .-1
Some good stuff there, only one small nit, don't try the next higher
string reference note idea if you have a full floating trem (ala Floyd
Rose) coz it won't work.
J.
|
2156.48 | Trems and multistring bends are a pain | GOES11::G_HOUSE | Marshall Stack Puke | Tue May 07 1991 15:17 | 9 |
| Yeah, the tremelo will pull both strings out of tune. Happens with any
trem with a light pull, not just a Floyd style, since the bend causes
string tension to go up pulling the tremelo down.
Another idea for practicing bends is to play the note you're going to
bend up to immediately before doing the band, so you get it in your
head.
Greg
|
2156.49 | A case of the Bends (or lack of)... | KEEGAN::TURNER | | Wed Jul 07 1993 09:47 | 31 |
| Well, after a few experimental "dir/tit=xxx" commands, I decided that
this was the best place to enter my question.
Last week, I bought a secondhand Jap Fender Telecaster which I'm
delighted with. It plays every bit as well as the U.S.A. models that
I've tried recently and I got it at a dirt cheap price. I put new strings on
the guitar, tuned it up patiently, checked the intonation, etc. Everything
seemed fine; in fact, although the tuners are standard Fender issue (i.e.
not locking tuners), they seem to do an excellent job - better than the
tuners on any of my previous guitars.
There is, however, one snag. Although the action is as low as I'd ever
want it, I'm having great difficulty with bending the strings. The G in
particular is murder; it's as much as I can do to bend it more than a
semitone! The strings have been on for a few days now, so it can't be a
question of "new string tension". And before you ask, I always use very
light strings (.008) as I play mainly blues/R&B, but at the moment, Chuck
Berry/B.B. King riffs are out of the question! I even tried lowering the
action more than I'm used to, but it made little or no difference.
So to sum up, I'm in the strange situation of having a guitar which
seems to stay perfectly in tune despite having extra light strings. On
the other hand, it's giving enormous problems in the bending department
(exactly the reason why people tend to prefer light strings!).
Last night, my new band were due to practice for the first time, but the
rehearsal room was double booked and so we didn't get to play. As things
stand, it probably saved me some embarassment, but I've got to get this
problem sorted out. Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
Dom
|
2156.50 | Time to... PUMP IT UP! | EARRTH::ABATELLI | You're not from around here are you? | Wed Jul 07 1993 10:49 | 17 |
| RE: .49
Sounds like you need to build up some strength in your hands. Having
used .010 and .011's for a long time I would not be able to play .008's
today, but we all need to start somewhere. I would suggest buying
either a hand gripper device at your local music store, or going down
to your local sports store and buying a hand gripper (you'll find these
over by the body building equipment. Both have spring tension resistance
although I'd ,lean more towards the musicians gripper at your local music
store ($9.99). Once your hand strength is built up, bending strings
will be effortless... ofcourse you may need to go to a heavier string
gauge if you over bend them. Oh well, like that's the worse that can
happen? ;^)
Good luck,
Fred
|
2156.51 | Finish on the frets? | POWDML::DAGG | | Wed Jul 07 1993 11:00 | 9 |
|
When Richard Stanley checked my guitar, he said that
I might want to have the frets polished or something
if I was going to get into alot of bending. Apparently
the finish on the frets of my guitar wasn't great,
thus preventing easy string bending.
Dave
|
2156.52 | Yeah but... | EARRTH::ABATELLI | You're not from around here are you? | Wed Jul 07 1993 17:42 | 24 |
2156.53 | | POWDML::BUCKLEY | Sleeping Beauty Land Theme Park | Wed Jul 07 1993 18:00 | 27 |
2156.54 | But I'm 6ft 4in, 182lb!! | KEEGAN::TURNER | | Thu Jul 08 1993 10:12 | 40 |
2156.55 | | NACAD::HERTZBERG | History: Love it or Leave it! | Thu Jul 08 1993 13:35 | 6 |
| Dom, your story just doesn't compute. Maybe you got a G-string with
the guage way out of whack? Also, where on the neck are you bending
when you say you can only get a semitone? The easiest place to bend
is at the 12th fret. Move off in either direction and it gets harder
and harder. I use .010 guage sets and can easily bend a whole tone at
the 7th fret and a minor third at the 12th fret on the third string.
|
2156.56 | check the trem | RICKS::CALCAGNI | submit to Fred | Thu Jul 08 1993 13:41 | 17 |
| Dom, could you be a little clearer about the problem? Are you having
trouble physically moving the string or is it just that you aren't
getting enough pitch raise? Does it seem like you're getting too
little pitch raise for the distance you bend?
The reason I ask is, I've had this problem on some Gibson semi-hollows
equipped with trapeze tailpieces. In these cases, I seemed to be pushing
the strings really far, but could barely get the note up a full step.
What seemed to be happening (my best guess) was the tailpiece was deforming
under the added tension of the bend, sort of following the string along
and making it harder to actually raise the pitch. You always have this
problem to some degree with Strats, but usually isn't that bad.
However, perhaps on your inexpensive Strat the trem mechanism is a bit
looser and sloppier? Something to check anyway; if so, it could
probably be fixed with an adjustment and/or heavier springs.
/rick
|
2156.57 | It's a Tele, not a Strat. | KEEGAN::TURNER | | Thu Jul 08 1993 13:57 | 22 |
| re: .55
It doesn't make too much sense to me either! For the record, I'm
talking about bending at round about the 12th fret. The dud (wrong
gauge) string is a possibility, but I would have thought that I could
get at least a semitone bend out of any string, even a piece of barbed
wire!
re: .56
You know, that might just have something to do with it (apologies for
my vagueness in outlining the problem). Actually, the guitar's a
Telecaster (no trem), not a Strat, but I've noticed that the bridge
saddles aren't as stable as they might be. Having said that, the
strings in general do seem incredibly "stiff", for want of a better
word...almost as though the guitar was tuned 3/4 tones too high.
Anyway, I'll bear in mind your suggestions when I have a look at it
tonight. My situation isn't helped by the fact that I don't know any
guitar repair men personally (I'm living in Milan, Italy), nor do I
know any guitar experts in general who could have a look at it.
Dom
|
2156.58 | fender blender | RICKS::CALCAGNI | submit to Fred | Thu Jul 08 1993 14:10 | 1 |
| oops, I misread... must be the heat :-)
|
2156.59 | A few suggestions | GOES11::G_HOUSE | Son of Spam | Thu Jul 08 1993 14:56 | 35 |
| Dom,
To add to what Rick was asking about the problem, are you able to move
the string as far as you want? If not, are maybe your fingers hanging
up on the fretboard? I'm not sure which model Tele you have, but some
of them have sticky lacquer finishes on the fretboards which makes
bending strings more difficult (especially if you like your action
low). Another issue may be the small (7inch) fretboard radius used on
some of those instruments, makes bending more difficult.
What kind of a guitar were you using before you got the Tele? The
scale length and neck angle also contribute to the string tension. For
instance, the same gauge strings will feel much more flexable on a Les
Paul then they will on a Strat due to these differences.
Even though Tele's usually have really stable necks, you should
probably insure that your truss rod adjustment is correct, as this will
improve the overall playability of the instrument (there are several
excellent notes in here on how to do it, I won't repeat the
instructions). You might also want to get a new set of strings and
polish up the frets when you take the old ones off to put on the new
ones. I like to use 0000 gauge steel wool to polish my frets, makes
'em nice and smooth (be sure to mask off the fretboard with some tape
though 'cause it'll scratch it up).
Oh yeah, not to sound stupid or anything, but have you verified that
you *haven't* tuned the guitar too high? If you're using an electronic
tuner, maybe it's screwed up or has a low battery or something. I've
had tuners tell me some odd things when the battery gets low,
especially the older ones (and the low quality ones).
This is an interesting problem, I don't think I've ever heard of
anything like this before. Keep us posted on what happens!
Greg
|
2156.60 | Egg on my face! | KEEGAN::TURNER | | Fri Jul 09 1993 09:11 | 34 |
| re: .59
>This is an interesting problem, I don't think I've ever heard of
>anything like this before. Keep us posted on what happens!
Well, you're all going to have a good laugh at this one (that's if you
don't lynch me first!). I've solved the "problem" and I still can't
believe that it fooled me for 3 whole days!
The guitar originally had some pretty old strings on it, so one of the
first things I did was to change them. I put on a set of Schaller
.008s, but I happened to break the G string as I was tuning up.
Fortunately, I had a spare set of Schallers (same gauge) so I just
dipped into the bag and took what I thought was a G string.
Well, I'm sure you've guessed it now! Call it new guitar fever, but
what I took wasn't a G string, it was a nickle wound D string. I've
sometimes used wounded G strings in the past so the change just
didn't hit me. And there you have it; I guess I'm just too dense to
notice the difference between a smooth .15 and a nickel wound .24!
Still, that's one mistake I won't be making in future...
To be fair, although I've been playing for 12 years I still pay more
attention to the music than the tools (although I'm gradually becoming
more picky). The same goes for my hi-fi; I'm much fussier about *what* I
listen to than what I play it on.
Still, the important thing is the Tele plays fine. No buzzes, stays in
tune, good intonation, nice neck...and faith in my string-bending
capabilities has benn restored!
Many thanks to all...and apologies for wasting your time!
Dom
|
2156.61 | | RICKS::CALCAGNI | speeding towards our sun, on a party run | Fri Jul 09 1993 11:33 | 3 |
| yet another reason NOT to change your strings!
:-)
|
2156.62 | Good deal, nothing serious | GOES11::G_HOUSE | Son of Spam | Fri Jul 09 1993 20:31 | 3 |
| Another mystery solved!
Greg
|