Conference napalm::guitar

    There's a leather shop that sets up in a department store called
    The Fair (Rt 20, Auburn/Worcester line) every year just about
    this time. They look like they do lotsa custom leather engraving
    and the like. (They aren't set up yet. Probably appear in a week
    or two..)
    
    A guitar strap seems like it would be relatively easy.
    
    Edd

    Charlie, what about Northhampton and Amherst out in your neck of
    the woods?  Seems like either one of those towns would have a 
    leather crafter.
    
    About one million years ago I bought some flanking leather from
    Tandy and a couple of leather embossing tools (:== tiny hand powered
    dies) and spent a couple of evenings making a strap for a friend.
    Still in use, according to a recent report.
    

               Thank, you all for your imputs.....I just happened to find
    a strap last night that was classy (about $70). Now I'm going to find
    someone to do a little engraving on it to make it more "personal"
    
    
                                  Have a good day,
    
                                          Charley d.       
    
    

    I couldn't find a better place to ask this, so here it is.  If there's
    a better note, someone please move it (or let me know).
    
    I was down in Mexico at the start of the summer and many of the guitar
    players in the mariachi(sic) bands there had these little straps that
    looked really interesting.  It was like a thin cord that you put around
    your neck and it went under the guitar and had a clip (most of which
    looked like a carved onyx hand) that attached on the bottom of the
    sound hole of the guitar.
    
    I thought these were pretty and wondered where one might find something
    like this in the US.
    
    Greg

>    I thought these were pretty and wondered where one might find something
>    like this in the US.
    
    I know what you mean.  I've seen the Mariachis around here using them. 
    I can check some of their shops for ya.  I'm also going to Mexico in
    the spring and I can check then.
    
    Then there's always Nogales, and Tucson hosts the international
    Mariachi festival every April.
    
    Mike

    They ARE neat straps, and they're handy for classical guitars or other
    instruments without strap buttons.  My only concern (and maybe
    unfounded) is that if you let go of the guitar, doesn't it just flip
    over and onto the floor?
    
    Just called the local music joint; they didn't have them, but I think
    you should be able to get them most places.  I saw a local mandolin
    player the other day who had one.
    
    Charlie

>    My only concern (and maybe unfounded) is that if you let go of the
>    guitar, doesn't it just flip over and onto the floor?
    
    I'd have to say it probably would (or worse, rip a hole in the top of
    your guitar).  It doesn't look like a very secure system, but I can see
    how it could come in handy sometimes.
    
    Greg

Back in the 60's those things were widely available.  Classicals as folk 
guitars were more popular then.  I had one, but soon got rid of it and 
had an end button mounted on the butt of my guitar for a regular strap.
I nearly busted my guitar and my own neck when I tripped and lost my grip on 
the guitar.  

Bob

    
    
    
    Dave,
    
    American Musical Supply (catalog) p. 64
    Thoroughbred Music (catalog) p. 71
    
    These have plastic clip locks. No skin, no meat, no sweat...
    
        
    Steve "Cheeseburger" Martin

    Be aware that many guitars have animal glues, bone nuts and saddles and
    animal by products in their finishes. 
    
    Danny W.

re: .12

>    Be aware that many guitars have animal glues, bone nuts and saddles and
>    animal by products in their finishes. 
    
I'd go as far as to say that *all* acoustic and hollowbody electric guitars
(except for real cheapies) are glued together with hide glue.  A hide glue
joint can be disassembled without harming the parts that were glued together.

-Hal

    I've seen straps that were made entirely of nylon pile and cordura
    fabrics. I can't recall who made them, but it may have been Jim Dunlop,
    Ernie Ball/Musicman or some such. The ones I've seen have been pretty
    high-tech looking, with quick-release locking buckles made of plastic.
    They are usually black. These are constructed using the same materials, 
    and technology as gig-bags. I've seen these in Daddy's, Mr. C's and 
    several other stores. 
    
    I would imagine you would still have to kill a few poli-esters to make
    these, though! 
    
    Mark
    

    that's okay, they're just animals.

    >>>that's okay, they're just animals.
    
    Sad.
    It's remarks like this that remind me why I don't participate much in
    this conference.  I post a note on *guitar straps* and my ethical
    beliefs get slammed.  This ranks up there with the Clapton sux notes.
    Why the #@%! can't people have a little respect?
    
    Dave 

    
    	re: -.1 "Why do I bother?"
    
    	Because there are many of us who are on the same wavelength
    	as you are and it would be a pity of the juvenile comments
    	of a couple drive you out too.  Years of that crap and they
    	still think they're funny.  What's weird is that they're
    	decent players and could actually offer something to this
    	conference but choose not to do anything but yank chains.
    
    	It's not that we don't have a sense of humor, it's that it
    	just isn't funny after 3 or 4 years, ya know?
    
    	Don't forget, people like Rick Calcagni, Danny Webber, Mark
    	Jacques, yourself, and others still offer great info in here.
    	Unfortunately, people like Steve Goodwin and Rick Busenbark
    	don't stop by often because of crap like .15 and the EC sux
    	comments and they're sorely missed, personally.
    
    	Tom
    
    
    
    	
    
    	

        .14
        ...    
    I would imagine you would still have to kill a few poli-esters to make
    these, though! 

        .15
        ...
    that's okay, they're just animals.
    
       

You guys just don't get it.  Slamming a guy on his view on killing animails
is not made O.K. by making the slam on in regard to "polyester animals".
It's like slamming ugly Elbonians only to later say "but everyone knows
there are no ugly Elbonians".  What's worse is that I know what the response
and effect of such objections will be.  I see it repeated on the net daily.
I expect that pretty soon several people (including me) will get slammed for
objecting.  I just think that guy took more abuse than was called for in
getting a pointer on where to get a particular guitar strap.

Jim

        Jim,
        
        I just  re-read this series, and nowhere did I see where "a guy
        was slammed ...".    All  I  saw  was the traditional weak joke
        around "killing polyesters", along the same lines as the naugas
        who supply naugahide. What abuse are you talking about?
        
        Andy

    re: .-1
    
    Thanks Andy, I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one that
    thought that.
    
    Somehow I personally just can't equate "They're just animals" to
    "slamming my ethical beliefs".
    
    > Why the #@%! can't people have a little respect?
    
    My belief is that this general problem in notes is a mix of "lack of
    respect" and "people being overly sensitive".
    
    	db

    
    	Gimme a break - how many noters have to say "enough" and then
    	finally leave this conference for you guys?  
    
    	If there was something else offered other than a bunch of
    	one liners, that would be a different story.
    
    	Tom
    

    >  Gimme a break - how many noters have to say "enough" and then
    >  finally leave this conference for you guys?
    
    How many eggshells are you gonna avoid stepping on.
    
    All he said was "they're just animals".   Frankly, if that sends
    someone off in a huff then I think IN THIS CASE, the fault is with
    oversensitivity.
    
    There was no malice intended, there was nothing personally directed,
    Mike certainly didn't intend any harm.  I mean c'mon???
    
    > If there was something else offered other than a bunch of
    > one liners, that would be a different story.
    
    This I agree with but whether or not any one person is contributing
    anything substantive is a different issue from whether or not someone
    should get their dander up and leave in a huff over a little harmless
    banter.
    
    	db
    
    p.s. I think further substantiates my own personal theory which is that
    	 you can divide people into two groups:
    
    		1) People who don't view disagreement as an insult
    		2) People who are insulted if you disagree with them.
    		   It's like you've challenged their integrity or something
    
    The comment about "reasonable men differing" applies ONLY to the first
    group.

     
    	re: -.1   Debates with you SUX !!
    

    > re: -.1   Debates with you SUX !!
    
    We agree on that too!
    
    ;-)

    Maybe no one knows the answer to the bloody question.,.. I certainly
    don't. (I, for one, couldn't care less what my straps are made of,
    so I don't give it a second thought). Apparently, not knowing the
    answer == no substantive input...

    And I agree with db, people are being oversensitive. I mean, this
    sort of thing has gone on since dawn of notes time... but, to me,
    the value of notes far outweighs the trauma of an occasional
    pissing contest. Basically, chin up and stop bitching about it.

    -b

    Dave,
    
    Disagreement isn't necessarily a bad thing.  It can lead to 
    understanding (if not "adopting") alternate points of view, or at the
    very least can just lead to conversation.
    
    This topic DID get side-railed but the question is what side-railed
    it: was it Mike Heiser's two line comment or your reaction to it?
    
    My answer to that question would be "both".
    
    Don't take everything you read in here so seriously.   A guy says
    "they're just animals" and you claim that your "personal beliefs"
    have been "slammed"???   C'mon... isn't that going a bit overboard?
    
    Bottom line is maybe it shouldn't have been posted but light-hearted
    banter is part of what makes notes interesting and that if you hadn't
    reacted to it (and thus brought UP the subject of "slamming" and all)
    this note would NOT have gotten off track.
    
    Lighten up a bit.  This conference can be a lot of fun if you don't
    look for insults in every wise-crack.
    
    	db

    One person's light-hearted banter is another person's slam.
    
    If the original questioner found some of the replies to his question
    inappropriate, I suggest we take him at his word instead of trying
    to continually point out how wrong he was for speaking up.  Would it
    have *KILLED* anyone to instead offer a simple "sorry about that",
    if only as an acknowledgment of someone else's feelings or point
    of view?
    
    Yeah, notes should be fun, but people will sometimes differ re what's
    fun and what isn't.  How we deal with those cases will determine the
    quality of life around here.
    

    There is a lot to be said for the old saying "If you can't say
    something nice, don't say anything"...But then again, I haven't seen
    this much conference participation is a long time...
    
    jc
    

    
    	Dave U., for future reference:
    
    	It might have saved alot of time and more replies had you asked
    	"if anyone knows of a source for a guitar strap with no leather
    	in it" without revealing the reason, or at least "dance around"
    	the real reason with a lie ["I don't like leather"].
    

I've seen a nylon strap with plastic connectors
at Wurlitzer, Guitar Center and Cambridge Music
in Porter Square.

The connectors stay on your guitar, you can
unclip the strap from the connectors- so you 
can jump around a lot without strap locks.

    Yes - I have these on all my guitars (don't know why I didn't think
    of it before)...  Nice straps/locks too!!
    jc

    Folks,
    
    Sorry for taking up disk space or your time with this; Jeff Cooper will
    tell you that while I like to push a few buttons every once in a while,
    I think ratholes are by and large a waste.
    
    HOWEVER... I just can't blow off this sort of disagreement, because
    it's indicative of a very fundamental problem these days.  As Dave
    Blickstein pointed out, it's not so much what's being said as it is how
    people quite often these days (mis)interpret the most harmless
    statement to have some major political or social content, when none was
    intended.
    
    I hardly think Mike Heiser meant anything hurtful by what he said.  In
    fact, there are several possible interpretations of what he said, and I
    don't claim to know the answer.  But, even if he HAD meant to say "Hey,
    I think you're being a little overly sensitive to the plight of
    animals", WHO IS TO SAY HE'S NOT SUPPOSED TO VOICE HIS OPINION AS WELL? 
    
    And since when does his voicing his opinion constitute a "slam"?  In my
    lexicon, just because we don't agree doesn't mean I'm "slamming" you. 
    If he'd said "Hey, idiot...", that would be a slam.
    
    What I so often find is that people can joke about, and have differing
    viewpoints, on any number of issues.  However, if it's an issue that
    means a lot to them, suddenly NOTHING is funny; any disagreement is
    taken as offensive.
    
    Years ago, when I didn't have kids, there were all sorts of jokes that
    were funny, and hardly anything was outside the bounds of good taste. 
    Now, having been a parent for some time, there are a lot of things I
    just don't find funny anymore.  However, if some guy tells a "dead
    baby" joke, do I deck him just because it violates my sense of taste?
    
    Dave, you say you don't push your viewpoint on others;  if someone said
    "where can I get a version of Product X which isn't made of animal
    byproducts?", he/she's just defining the parameters of what they want. 
    You can speculate about why those are their parameters, but it's your
    own speculation. On the other hand, when someone uses phrases like
    "murdered animals", does that sound devoid of viewpoint?
    
    Actually, I don't mind if you express your views, even in the strongest
    terms; I don't mind if you DO use terms like "murdered animals".  Just
    don't take it as a slam if I disagree.
    
    Charlie

    .29 had it right.
    
    Nothing really wrong with comments intended as light banter, as in 
    "they're only animals."  But when someone says they're offended by a
    note, it should produce an quick reply of "sorry you were offended"
    rather than an analysis of whether they were really offended or whether
    they should have been offended.  If someone takes the time to say they
    were offended, that should be good enough to prove that they _were_
    offended.  And all that's necessary in the apology is to express regret
    that someone was offended... not some deep admission of guilt.
    
    								Marc

>    .29 had it right.
    
>    Nothing really wrong with comments intended as light banter, as in 
>    "they're only animals."  But when someone says they're offended by a
>    note, it should produce an quick reply of "sorry you were offended"
>    rather than an analysis of whether they were really offended or whether
>    they should have been offended.  
    
    Let me prove the fallacy of this position:
    
    Marc, I was greatly offended by the above paragraph.  It makes me out to be
    some insensitive clod.
    
    	db

        Repeat post  -  _CONTEXT_!!    No-one  was  "slammed" for their
        beliefs.  Here's  a  free  clue  -  "poli-esters"  are not real
        animals;  nor are the "naugas" which routinely sacrificed their
        hides to cover furniture.
        
        Fact is that the full  post in .14 described helpfully a source
        for all-plastic straps.
        
        What a production!
        
        =================================================================
        
      <<< Note 1997.18 by SPEZKO::FRASER "Mobius Loop; see other side" >>>
                  -< Conjunction for the humour-impaired ... >-

        .14
        ...    
    I would imagine you would still have to kill a few poli-esters to make
    these, though! 

        .15
        ...
    that's okay, they're just animals.
    
       

        Dave,
        
        I honestly  don't think anyone was aiming at you and I'm pretty
        sure that your  personal  beliefs are and were respected by the
        folks writing here, regardless  of whether or not those beliefs
        are shared.  I saw no-one call you anything detrimental or call
        your  beliefs  into  question.  That  _would_  be  a  slam,  no
        question.
        
        I read the EC sucks and the  EC  is god stuff with a smile - EC
        is  just another guy who has made a  living  playing  a  guitar
        fairly well.  I'd just as soon listen to Chet Atkins personally
        - but be that as it may, the whole game  is  different  strokes
        for different folks and part of the fun of this file (for me!!)
        are the differences of opinion, and as often as not, folks meet
        up for a beer or three and find that there is no rancour - it's
        mostly chain-yanking. 
        
        But, I'm just a newcomer to this file - what do I know :^)
        
        Andy
        
        

        
        >I read the EC sucks and the  EC  is god stuff with a smile - EC
        >is  just another guy who has made a  living  playing  a  guitar
        >fairly well.  
    
    Fine...but what gets my goat are the people who hovver around in here
    (in semi-read only mode) and just nail every argument of conversation
    that comes up, be it Eric Clapton, Peavey gear, Neil Young, drummers,
    Keith Richard, Jimmy Page, etc. Sure, you're entitled to views - but
    spare us the same crap *every* time. I totally agree with the previous
    noters who maintain that respect for individual views come before
    anything - if a guy says he's offended, then that's the end of the
    story. Have the decency to apologise.
    
    Oh, and before people start preaching about folks taking comments too
    seriously (very dodgy ground, that; I can think of at least two
    instances in the past where those doing the preaching got well wound up
    about something that was, IMO, pretty trivial - funny thing, human
    nature), I'd just like to say that my  initial take on the "X sux"
    brigade is that they're the most humourless little creeps of the lot;
    if anyone has the cheek to string more than three notes together on a
    subject that doesn't wax lyrical about their own particular hero of the
    moment, then they have to steam in and whinge about it! 
    
    Now, if you really want me to camp in the Dream Theater note (to name
    but one!) and dedicate my life to taking the p*ss out of them, then
    fine - there's ammunition a-plenty! I'd like to think I've got better
    things to do. In fact, I know I've got better things to do...
    
    Time for a new topic?
    
    Dom

    
    
    	Holy moly.....Talk about a RAT-HOLE....I'm offended by the fact
    
    	that fellow guitslingers don't have a heck of a lot to say about
    
    	custom guitar straps.  You guys are so sensitive.
    
    
     	My sister does some nice embroidery.

    
    
     awfully brave of you, laddie, to bring your sister into this?!?!
    
    
    P.S.: this note composed without *any* animal by-products...
    
    

    
    > 	My sister does some nice embroidery.
    
    	I was gonna say "Your sister does ALOT of nice things" but I
    	didn't want to risk offending you.  8^)
    

    
    
    	Your mama......8')
    
    
    		er....um....I meant to say my sister does some nice
    embroidery on quitar straps.  I've also seen a few "created" using
    those home style sequin/stub injector type guns....not bad
    
    		My own straps are made primarily of nylon mesh with
    some kind of leatherette/naugahide piece for the shoulder.  The strap
    for the Les Paul is two inches wide and quite heavy duty.  But with
    all 80 pounds of guitar it's goota be.....
    
    I find all leather straps wear/stretch too easily and tend to take on
    a certain air after a few sweaty gigs.
    
    		Oh yeah, no offense intended to you beafeaters/wearers
    

    >>
    >>  Let me prove the fallacy of this position:
    >>
    >>  Marc, I was greatly offended by the above paragraph.  It makes me 
    >>  out to be some insensitive clod.
    >>
    >>	db
    >>                                                   
    
    Dave, I'm sorry you were offended by my note.  It certainly was not my
    intention to offend you or anybody else by my note.  I don't think
    you're an insensitive clod at all.  Please accept my apology.
    
    							Marc

    
    	I'm actually starting to see the humor in all of this.
    	I wasn't sure so I went down to the locker area and
    	weighed myself.
    
    	Sure enough, I've lightened up!
    
    	Tom
    

    
    
    		Eehhhh.....Caan't  sob'....we 'sniff'  all sob' 
    
    			just...sigh' sob' snif'  get  along???
    
                               -chris_beat_me_with_a_guitar_strap_dacunha
    
    
    
    
    		Seriously,  My sister doesn't really take orders
    	She's in a more lucrative line of work (Government liason) 
    
    	and besides,  she lives in VA.  
    
    	As an alternaitve, you could always find a nice piece of 
    	material (embroidered or otherwise, and sew it to your strap.
    
    	Be creative!  Any craft shop has a bunch stuff you could use.
    
    

>    	Sure enough, I've lightened up!
    
    Now if you got rid of the electric and went back to the ES-335 like
    I've been telling you, you'll have lightened up even more.
    
	db  

    
    Not to change the subject or anything...but any tall folks out
    there that have a hard time with most off-the-shelf straps
    being too short? I'd sure love to get an extra-long strap as
    I hate clutching me bass to me bosom......
    
    DAP
    

    Well since there have been a few serious replies about guitar straps
    here,, I'll add my two cent.   If you have a Martin guitar or other
    fine instrument,,, you want to be carefull about allowing man-made 
    material come in contact with the finish of the guitar,,,  It will 
    eat it!!   Martin recommends leather straps,,, and for the price I
    paid for my D28,,, thats the only kind that will get used on it.
    
    Bruce May  
    

    I'm tall, pushing 6'4", but I haven't had the problem with
    run-of-the-mill straps being too short yet, and I think I've stopped 
    growing.  I admit they're pretty much adjusted out to the end, though.
    

   Yeah, but Mr. Peltonen is tall *and* wide.  :-)  (In the shoulders, in the
   shoulders...  :-))

   Sorry, DAP, but I don't know of any extra long straps.  Try the Big and Tall
   Men's Warehouse maybe?  :-)  Seriously though, you might check out one of
   those adjustable nylon straps, and see if you can adjust it to be long
   enough.

   -- Sam

    
    
    or hook a couple army surplus web belts together -- get the length you
    want, and an attitude besides!  I did this when my ex-step-daughter
    broke the handle off of her boom box.  Turned out pretty cool, and the
    new strap outlasted the boom box...
    

    
    Hey, I'm a growing boy, dont'cha know! Oh, you're not supposed
    to still be growing at 42? :) Does this mean I can stop 
    drinking my milk now?
    
    Seriously, I own about a dozen straps in the hopes of finding
    one that is long enough so the bass hangs where I want it to,
    wide enough to carry the weight comfortably (don't much care for
    them skinny li'l nylon things unless they're undies), and at
    midnight turns into a roast beef sandwich and a sixpack. Guess
    it's time to head for a custom leather shop......
    
    DAP