Conference napalm::guitar

    My reviews:
    
    Morse model: Great basic guitar, not much tonal variety for all
       that hardware
    
    JEM 777 (Steve Vai):  great guitar in every respect.
    
    Fender's Clapton Model: No better than any other Fender these days
    
    Paul Dean (from Loverboy): Average
    
    	db

    
    	I used to like my "Trini Lopez" guitar.
    	But you said nowadays, so I guess my reply doesn't count :-).
    
    	Guy Novello

    
    Ibanez JEM 777 Steve Vai model ...vicious! love that tremolo!
    
    Jackson Randy Rhoads model ...cool tones and sustain for a les
    paul-type geetar.
    
    Schecter Yngwie Malmsteen model ...another crappy strat copy from
    Schecter with his name on it. I don't like the sound.
    
    Schecter Jimi Hendrix model ...another strat! Sounds better 
    than the Yngwie strat but ain't worth the $1500 price tag if you 
    ask me!
    
    Paul Dean model ...retch  Poor sounding bolt-on neck guitar with
    soapbar pickups.
    
    Peavey Adrian Vandenberg model ...modified strat design with two
    humbuckers and a floyd.  Why don't I like this guitar? (why didn't
    he use it in concert?)
    
    wjb

    Steve Vai Ibanez: Nice guitar,but the price is outrageous!($2500 list?)

Other Ibanez's: Essentially a copy of the above were just as nice($1000 list)

Schecter Ym 1 : Yuk!!!!!(over a $1200?)
		 
Geo. Washburn 34 fret: Played very nice,but the pickups(active) were so,so
		       light in weight and balanced.($800 used?)
Alembic:  Yuk!!! $1200+

Editorial:

	Look folks these prices are a bit much and what you get is still a
couple of pieces of wood and a signature(maybe) Doesn't the price you may
pay bother you? Or are we all collecting potential collector items/antiques
or art to be displayed to our grandchildren. And are we setting precedent for 
the future? 
	I personally can't stomach paying a max of $500 for a guitar and I
wouldn't care who had signed it or built it. I've seen some real nice woodwork
and inlay and feel that's different.

	I guess I'll have to go back to my cigar box and rubberbands!  


					Sorry, I had to say it!

						:^)

    Re: .4  on the Steve Vai model Ibanez
    
    I think your price is a little high.  I just called a dealer and
    they told me that the list for the JEM series guitars runs from
    about $1200-$1600, with the signature model with that outrageous
    green paint being $1600 ($1700 with tax...).
    
    gh

    	I could have been wrong,but I swear I did a double take at the
    price... It was at Hampshire Music in Nashua,NH a couple of weeks
    ago. And it was signed and #60 in the series.... It could have been
    mis marked too....
    
    							Rick
    

    
    The list price on a Green Steve Vai limited edition autographed
    guitar *is* $2500....but, that's listy and whos going to pay that
    anyway?
    
    The going price for a green one is roughly $1700, which isn't bad
    if you consider what other endorsee's guitars sell for (randy rhoads
    upwards of $1500, Brian May the same)
    
    wjb

    	I'm sure someone will pay the price regardless if it is $2500
    or $1700. I can't believe they have the nerve to ask those prices.
    
    							Rick
    

    
    Why not, any `reputable' guitar these days (ie, neck-thru-body,
    floyd, duncans or dimarzios, exotic finishs) start at $1000.
    
    Sure, you can buy a les paul or a standard strat for under that
    but its the 80's and people want more out of an axe...they want
    it customized when they get it, so, we have to pay for it.
    
    wjb

    Put me on the list of those people who would never pay $1000 and up for
    a guitar.  Perhaps that leaves me forever in the used guitar market.
    Well, that's OK.  I don't mind customizing my own guitars. I can buy a
    lot of DiMarzios or other fancy electronics for $1000. I had someone
    design, build, and install a preamp for my current guitar for less
    then $100. 
    
    It seems to me that companies like Ibanez got their foot in the door
    because companies like Gibson were over-charging for their guitars.
    Maybe the same thing will happen to Ibanez and the others.  I bought
    the Ibanez Flying V when it came out for $350.  It was in every way a
    better guitar than the Gibson equivalent, and much cheaper. Of course,
    Gibson did sue Ibanez shortly after this. 8-) 
    
    I also couldn't care less who endorses a guitar in an ad.  It's a good
    bet that 6 months from now, they will be playing something else. It
    seems that everyone endorsed some Gibson of Fender product at some
    time.  Who remembers that Carlos Santana used to endorse the Gibson
    L-6? What has Larry Coreyll (sp?) NOT endorsed?  Actually, the list of
    what people used to endorse could get pretty long. 

    The only good that I can see from endorsements is that it keeps the
    resale value of a guitar up.  When you have a guitar for sale, it's
    nice to see one on the cover of Guitar Player.
    
    Someone mentioned Alembic.  A long time ago, they used to (still
    do?) custom build guitars.  You could specifiy things like the scale
    of the neck, weight, electronics, hardware, etc.  They were very
    expensive, but it was truely a personalized guitar.
       
    Kevin

    	For $1700.00 I should be able to have Steve deliver the guitar
    in person and perhaps play for a few hours in my living room. The
    JEM is a nice guitar but over priced in my opinion. I believe that
    the guitar being indorsed by Steve has at least a little to do with
    the high price tag and I think anyone would be able to buy a guitar
    as good as the JEM 777 at half the price. You might have to do with
    out little disappearing pyramids but thats the price you DON'T have
    to pay.
    
    Stingy - a way of life.
    DonH

    
    Re: -1 and all other JEM-price bashers...  
    
    FYI, there is a model that Ibanez makes that is real similar in
    design to the JEM.  The guitar goes for $500 (w case). You could
    buy that guitar, buy three pink Dimarzio pickups, scallop the top
    4 frets yourself and you'd have a very close approximation of the
    JEM.  Although, you wouldn't have the monkey grip or the disappearing
    pyramids but hey, life is tough!
    
    ;^)
    
    wjb 

    
    I truly believe that years ago (In most cases) when a well known
    artist endorsed a guitar, it was because it had been custom-tailored
    to fit their needs, and they had faith in it. I say "In most cases"
    because obviously there were exceptions (ie. when the Ventures switched
    from Fender instruments to Mosrite). If you look at all of the old
    Gibsons, better than half of them were tailored to fit a certain
    performer (ie. Charlie Christian, Howard Roberts, Les Paul, Johnny
    Smith, Tal Farlow, Byrdland). Just a bit of trivia. The Byrdland was 
    designed to suit 2 people. I believe they were Charlie Byrd, and Hank 
    Garland, but I could be wrong about the exact names. In most cases
    these performers stuck by their indorsements. In Les Pauls case,
    obviously, he didn't just endorse it he designed/invented it.
    The same can be said for some of the Gretch, Epiphone, etc. guitars
    such as the Chet Atkins model, which he continued to endorse right
    up to the end of the Gretch company.
                                        
    	One of the more recent guitars that comes to my mind is the
    Ibanez Bob Weir model. Bob has used these guitars in concert on
    many of occasions, and Ibanez has designed a new version for him
    which is more Strat-like than the original which was hollow and
    set up like an ES335. Bob has been using the Stratty version almost
    exclusively in concert for the past few years. 
                            
    	The Gibson Howard Roberts Fusion was designed for Him, and again,
    he endorses it strongly.
    
    	I believe that in all too many cases, the newer Artist endorsements
    that we see are bought, and paid for. Some people have the unmedigated
    ordasity to endorse several instruments simultaneously. Then they
    show up on stage with a vintage Strat.
    
    	As far as paying $1700 for one guitar, I suppose if I won
    Mega-bucks I might consider it, but, if I had $1700 to spend
    right now I would probably get the following:
    
    	6string acoustic/electric 	~$500-$600
    	Used Gibson Les Paul		~$500.oo
    	Used Fender Strat ~		~$350.oo
    	Used Fender Jazz Bass		~$350.oo
    	
    	Then I would probably trade my present Acoustic for something
    else like a 12 string or Dobro, to make life interesting. I presently
    own A Tele and ES335, so this would be (in my opinion) a well rounded,
    functional guitar collection. This would give me a much bigger bang
    for my buck. I don't consider any of the instruments I mentioned
    as cheap, inferior, trade-offs by any stretch of the imagination.
    In fact, I would probably choose one of these over a JEM Steve Vai
    model, or Randy Rhodes model anyday. If I needed a real good whammy, 
    I could always throw a Kahler or Floyd on the Strat. As far as the
    pickups, hardware, etc. go, there is plenty of after market stuff
    available for any one of the electrics I mentioned, and I like 
    working on them anyways. I would probably put Duncans in the 2 
    Fender guitars I mentioned cause we all know that stock Fender
    pickups (non-vintage) are lousy anyways.
        
    	I don't mean to flame anyone, or criticise any instrument out
    there. I am making the point that in my case, I like collecting,
    and would rather have 5 medium-priced guitars than have one real 
    expensive guitar. To each his own. One thing is for sure. I would
    never even dream of going to a professional gig with only one guitar.
    What would I do if I dropped it, or if the wiring got screwed up
    in the middle of the gig ? It is bad enough having a guitar damaged,
    but imagine the embarrasment, and hassles of being stuck with no
    guitar. I feel the same way about amplifiers, and presently have
    a new amp on my shopping list to serve as a second amp.
                   
    I don't buy a guitar just because a famous person endorses it. 
    Everone's hands and ears are unique. What feels and sounds good 
    to someone is a personal thing. 
    
    Mark Jacques
    

    
    Like all artists, instrument endorsers have a right to use anything
    they want, as suits their whim.  It doesn't take "unmitigated audacity"
    to endorse one and use another on any given occasion.  Sometimes,
    something you haven't played in a while just feels better tonight,
    so you go on with it, leaving your main axe on a stand or in its
    case.
    
    Personal tastes evolve, revolve, and devolve.  Maybe it does smack
    a bit of commercialism, but, Hey! it's the music BUSINESS.  These
    folks have worked real hard.  They're artists, but appreciation
    and acclaim by themselves won't put the kids through college.  Hell,
    they don't even have a group medical plan or retirement package!
    
    	t
    

    I realize that a musician has a right to sell his or her name to
    the product(s) of their choice.  For the purpose of discussion,
    I'll skip the issue as to whether or not someone *should* do this.
    
    It would never be worth $1000 and more to me just to
    have a guitar like Steve Vai, Clapton, etc. I wouldn't care if Clapton
    delivered the guitar in person.  The fact that someone else endorses
    the guitar is nice, but what difference will it make to MY playing?
     Will the electronics be better than those of another guitar?
     Better neck maybe?  Better balance? Stays in tune better?  Can
    I get the same thing in another guitar for less $$$?  What is it
    about the guitar that is special, and is it something I am looking
    for?
    
    I realized a long time ago that if I had Steve Vai's [or other
    player's] guitar, amps, effects rack, sound crew, and roadies I still
    wouldn't be able to play like him!  90% of it is in the head and
    fingers, not the equipment.  Nice equipment only helps, but Steve Vai
    could probably play a Stella guitar through a Silvertone amp and sound
    gound. 
    
    I mean, db went out and bought the Steve Morse guitar because he loves
    Steve Morse and it was the STEVE MORSE GUITAR.  Did it make him play
    like Steve Morse?  Of couse not!  I don't think that db ever expected
    it to, but some people might. 
    
    Kevin
        

    
    Try this:
    
    If you didn't have a Steve Vai guitar, you'd have to do serious
    routing to your present instrument to perform his vibrato arm licks!
    
    wjb

    
    
    The other thing that artist endorsements do is sell cheaper axes.
    
    Like the kid who will buy a $250 Ibanez because he knows Steve Vai plays
    the $2500 one.
    
    The current endorsement champs appear to be Rudy Sarzo who plays
    Washburns...no, he plays Arias...no it's a Peavey Dyna-Bass....wait...
    
    ..or Richie Sambora...geez, I love that GHS ad "Richie, Jon and
    Alec , three guys facing life honestly through their music"....kind
    of like something out of Baba Ram Dass....does he *really* play
    KMD amps????  Funny as how they also endorse *Peavey* amps....they
    probably really play Marshalls.
    
    At least Les Paul had some integrity.  When Gibson replaced the
    original Les Paul with the SG, he insisted they remove his name
    from it.  
    
    BTW, on the Schon guitars....the company is *owned* by Neil Schon,
    which means he isn't just sticking his name on the headstock of
    another Strat copy.
    
    
     

    	Ibanez does make a cheaper guitar without the glitter and glory
    for around $700,at a discount. It is just as nice as the $2500 one
    and has the same kind of hardware setup. 
    	Without question it's never the hardware that makes the musician
    it's the music he plays....
    
    	Gee I thought KO drove an Escort, guess I better look at Bronco's!
    
    
    							:^)
    
    						Just Kidding!!!!
    

    Re .19  
    
    If the whammy bar system on the guitar is something special, I can
    see where there is value added to the guitar and it could command
    a higher price.  That's fair enough.  People expect to pay a higher
    price for special features.  $1500 is still mind blowing, however.
    
    Wouldn't it be great if there were "truth in advertising" rules
    for endorsements?......
    	
    "Hi there. My name is Heavy Metal Thunder* (real name Iben Fleecinim)
    and I would like to talk with you about Predator guitars. I've been
    using Predator guitars for a long time now (well, since they gave them
    to me anyway) and I never play anything else (except in the studio
    where I use old Strats).  They have the best necks and electronics of
    any guitar (after I have them shaved and refretted and Duncan's
    installed) I have ever played.  My predator is the lighest, best
    balanced guitar on the market (of course, mine is custom made from
    special woods that you can't get).  Buy one, and clean up your act (and
    clean out you wallet) today." 

    *No flames intended against HM rockers intended. I just liked the
    name.
    
    Kevin

    re: all this endorsement fuss..
    
    The worst I've seen was Howard Lesse (sp?) of Heart who was endorsing
    three different brands of guitars at one time, including Dean's
    who quoted him as saying "It actually makes my amps sound great!"
    
    I laughed for months over that, with his income his amps should
    sound great, they're great amps...what a jerk!
    
    db2

    
    I think the worse ones are those who do endorsements and don't use
    the stuff!
    
    examples:         Endorsement                Uses
    
    Vinnie Moore      Laney amps                 Peavey
    Howard Leese      Washburn/Dean              custom instruments
    Ritchie Sambora   KMD amps                   Marshalls
    Vivian Campbell   Randell amps               Bradshaw system!

    Look, y'know you guys seem to be presuming that the only thing going
    for the JEM guitar is that Steve Vai endorses it and that's why it 
    costs so much.
    
    In my opinion you've all decided it's not worth that kind of money
    purely on basis's having nothing to do with the quality of the guitar.
    
    I have tried one.  I think its the finest STOCK guitar I've ever tried.
    And if I had the money, I'd get one.
    
    I bought the Steve Morse model as my one indulgence into the realm
    of "guitar collectors".
    
    Eight years ago I paid over $1000 to get my Carvin DC 200 Koa even 
    though NOBODY was endorsing or playing it, most folks hadn't even HEARD 
    of Carvin, and probably most folks would scream about the $1000+ 
    just as has been done here.
    
    I've never thought twice about the fact that I could've had several
    guitars I didn't like as much for the same money... y'know?
    
    	db

    
    Aside from the endorsement issue, most people in this conference
    seem to have a problem with paying over $800 for a guitar. That's
    cool if that's what you believe, however, I've often considered having
    a custom instrument built. Although I realize it would cost me upwards 
    of $2500, I don't have a problem with that. I'll buy it when I have
    the money.
    
    Has anyone ever played a custom instrument?? Perfect intonation,
    perfect frets, pickups wound to your specified voicing. It seems
    like the good fret job and neck add to the tone of the instrument.
    
    wjb  

	I've played some really nice custom handmade guitars which I would 
have paid more for,for quality and workmanship and especially if they were 
built for me personally to my needs/spec's they would be worth the price. 
	But what I saw and played was too close to your typical machine 
stamped guitar (Sorry Dave!)for what I would have considered to be a custom 
price....   
	Then again I have not called the local luthier to price my needs. 

	There were alot of things I liked about the Vai model....the price
just kinda floored me....
	It's really a matter of personal taste vs pocketbook. And I admit 
probably to yesterdays standards for myself..... It's just when we start
talking a $1000+ I get a little dizzy. Something would really have to knock
me off my feet to pay the price. I just haven't played it yet(and couldn't
afford it anway)I guess. Or maybe I just require the basics to accomplish what 
I need.......... whether it's Steve Vai licks,Eric Clapton or mine...

							Rick

    I paid $425 in 1974 for my current guitar.  Now, $425 in this note
    sounds more like the price for a guitar case, but in 1974 it was a lot
    of money.  I was in high school at the time and saving up $425 took me
    a while.  But, I wanted that guitar real bad and the price didn't
    matter much to me.  I would have tried to save a $1000 if that's what it
    cost. 
    
    I better stay out of guitar shops now, though.  I can't afford to
    fall in love with a $2500 guitar and I really wouldn't want to.
    
    I personally don't believe that mass produced guitars should cost
    $2500.  Even $1500 is out of line.  What does
    it cost Ibanez, etc to make one of these anyway?  Someone is making
    mucho $$$ on that deal and I would rather it not be at my expense.
     Maybe I'm cheap, but it rubs me the wrong way.  
    
    I can see it for a handmade custom guitar,
    though.  Some classical guitar players look at $3000 as the entry
    price.  And has anybody priced violins lately? 
 
    Kevin

    
    It seems that Ibanezzzz has more "fake" endorsements than anybody.
    I've seen Ibanez ads for George Benson, Tony MacAlpine, Steve Vai,
    Joe Satriani, Stanley Jordan, Alan Holdsworth....so on.
    
    As far as I know, none of these play Ibanez on stage.
    
    I'd still prefer a Hamer.
    
    P.S. Who first had the "Nausea Green" (a.k.a. Loch Ness Green) guitar?
    Was it Steve Stevens, Steve Vai, or Dweezil Zappa?

    Just as a side note, the wood used on the average Strat will set
    you back about $40.00 to $70.00 (depending on your sources). To
    use KOA, or WALNUT in place of the ASH or ALDER body, adds between
    $40.00 and $100.00 to the price (and these are the best looking
    pieces of wood that I'm taking about, not average quality). The
    hardware costs (Lets add a Floyd Rose Vibrato & top quality
    pickups) are next: add $300.00. Tuning keys; Schallers: $40.00,
    Controls; CTS pots: $20.00, Assorted screws & hardware; $20.00,
    Plastic parts; Pickguard (or whatever): $5.00.
    
    This leaves the work on the wood (it's mostly done on a Numerical
    Control cutter & 95% of the work is finished in less than 10 minutes,
    no matter what the body material is - Curly maple takes a bit more
    care, but not much), finish (dirt cheap if you make many instruments,
    but about $10.00 if you only make a few), and assembly. The fret
    boards can be purchased with the slots pre-cut, so we won't worry
    about this aspect for the moment.
    
    As you can see, changing any variables can make some moderate changes
    in cost, but by far, the most expensive parts are the hardware.
    You can easily add $250.00 to the cost by choosing a different 
    Vibrato. Now, where does the increase from $1000.00 to $2500.00
    come from? Lower quanitities made = more hand work, add about
    $50.00 per guitar (Once the assembly line has been set up). You
    pay for the rest by paying for the special advertising, and any
    endorsements, and the substantial profit mark up that the manufacturer
    might ask for.
    
    I build guitars for people, and I try not to put the most expensive
    parts on them, mainly because people can upgrade thier hardware,
    but they really can't upgrade the wood (short of tossing the parts
    & buying new ones). I also build guitars for myself & go with what I
    like (I build mostly double neck & left handed instruments). I collect
    guitars that I like (when the price is right), and really don't
    worry much about endorsments. You never know when a real sweet guitar
    will come out of the lesser quality parts.  Funny how junk guitars
    (like Mosrites, and Danelectro's) are commanding higher prices these
    days (the Danelectros have either plywood bodies - these were the
    top of the line models, or masonite & pine for the average ones).
    I usually sound about the same on any guitar that I play, so, I
    try to stick with what works (yes, I have a Masonite Danelectro at
    home in my collection - it sustains very nicely).
    
    							Jens
                                                   

    Just a few comments and observations... 

    On the Ibanez Steve Vai guitar:  It seems like the point of it is
    generally missed.  The $2500 version (my local dealer will sell me one
    for $1700) is a 'Special Edition', only 500 were issued.  These were
    all the 'nausea green' and Steve Vai personally played (oh...Wow!) and
    autographed each one.  It was intended as a collectors item.  The
    regular JEM-777 (spell: what most people would buy to play) lists for
    around $1600 and can be had for less. It's marketed as a 'custom'
    instrument which needs no modification. 

    On the endorsements:  Have you ever noticed that a lot of the ads never
    actually *say* that the person endorsing the item really *uses* it?
    They make comments along the lines of they 'like it' or 'have one'.  I
    noticed this once (with an artist that I *knew* didn't actually play
    one regularly) and it really cracked me up. 

    Although I'd *probably* never pay this much for a guitar myself, but I
    can't see why so many people are getting so upset that these
    instruments cost so much.  I mean, *four years* ago, the list price for
    a *stock* Strat or Les Paul (without a #*&^% case, even) was in this
    same range ($1200-$1500).  And these guitars didn't have any unusual
    features like Floyd Rose licensed tremolos (not to mention versions
    countersunk into the guitars body with beau-coup extra routing to allow
    extra "string breaking" range...) and custom designed pickups, and
    partially scalloped necks, and...I could go on, but you get the
    picture.  Why is this suddenly such an outrageous price? 

    <Set mode/ranting & raving> 

    I also noticed that many of these replies were comparing prices for
    *used* instruments to *LIST* prices for *new* instruments!  That's
    ridiculous!  First, it's a rare case when anyone pays the list price
    for musical equipment and everyone knows that.  The list prices are
    padded accordingly.  And second, try the price comparison in about 5
    years, when the models you're lambasting are used.  I'm sure they won't
    cost any more than your precious Les Paul or Strat of the same vintage.
    Geez, what do you expect?  These are supposedly custom instruments,
    they have to pay off test costs, development, etc.  I don't mean to
    come off like a jerk or anything, but, hey...think about what you're
    comparing here. 

    <Set mode/more calm and collected> 

    Sorry about the tirade, the trend in this discussion was just starting
    to bug me.  Incidentally, Ashley, I have personally seen Alan
    Holdsworth playing Ibanez guitars in concert and understand that he
    regularly does use them.  It's my understanding from interviews that
    Joe Satriani exclusively uses Ibanez now, though that's not what he
    played when his albums were recorded.  He said that the model he plays
    wasn't available then.  With Steve Vai, he also says in interviews that
    he plays the Ibanezes most of the time, but not exclusively. 
    
    Again, I had no intention of offending anyone with what I said here,
    just thought someone should say it.  Hope no one is angry. 
    
    Greg
    
    BTW: I don't really care about endorsements either.  I buy and play
    what I like.  I do happen to like some of the 

    yeah,  it is kinda funny how these people do endorse and then don't
    use it on stage.  I just saw John Scofield (smokin!) a week ago
    and yes, he was playin an Ibanez 335, but he wasn't using any Ibanez
    effects or Sundown amps like the album's say (he was using Roland
    JC120's).  On the other hand, how much can they pay these guys for
    saying they using it?....  I wouldn't think it would set them back
    too much if they didn't do it.   
    
    Scofield's great, but he doesn't draw the attention Steve Vai does..
                                 
    /pc
    

    RE: .32 You canget a floyd rose clone (an exact clone licensed under
    the FR patents) for $89.95 from Stewart Mcdonalds, etc. you do not
    have to pay the extravagant prices you see in most catalogs if you
    just shop around..
    
    I'm gonna have a guitar custom built someday, and it's damn the
    price full speed ahead. But unitl then I'm gonna use my old strat,
    tele etc. and possiblly build a few kit types using stuff from places
    like Stewart Mcd's...
    
    But I'm not likely to buy a high priced 'endorsed' model guitar,
    btu then I'm unlikely to buy any brand new guitars anywhere....although
    there was a real nice jackson at my local shop for $750, and I admit
    to some guitar lust whenever I go in there....and it's a near perfect
    guitar in terms of intonation etc....so you can get perfection for
    far less than $2K+
    
    you wann pay $2500 for the Via guitar, more power to ya...it doesn't
    bother me much at all that they ask these prices for them, I'm not
    gonna pay it anyway
    
    
                      
    db2  

    > It seems that Ibanezzzz has more "fake" endorsements than anybody.
    > I've seen Ibanez ads for George Benson, Tony MacAlpine, Steve Vai,
    > Joe Satriani, Stanley Jordan, Alan Holdsworth....so on.
    
    > As far as I know, none of these play Ibanez on stage.
    
    Wha????
    
    I saw Steve Vai last week.  The only non-JEM guitar he used was
    that 3 necked wonder used in the "Just Like Paradise" video.
    
    A friend of mine saw Satch about two months ago.  All Ibanez.
    
    I saw Stanley Jordan about a year ago.  Ibanez.
    
    Saw Holdsworth twice over the last year.  The guitar he was using
    didn't have a name on the headstock, but it was the SAME model
    (red and strat-like) you saw in the ads that were running back then.
    
    I saw Benson on television about a month ago.  He was playing an
    Ibanez.
    
    I haven't seen Dweezil Zappa or Tony MacAlpine play.
    
    Regarding the JEM guitars, there's a number of things done to this
    guitar that could easily explain the increased price (Recessed trem,
    scalloped fingerboard, "monkey grip", etc.)
    
    	db

    
    Addendum to .36
    
    Deezil plays Jacksons.
    Tony MacAlpine endorses BC Rich.
    
    Holdsworths red strat is an Ibanez.
    Vai's three neck guitar is an Ibanez.
    Vai was the first one to have a puke-green guitar.
    
    

    "Golly gee kids, try my swell new guitar, you might become rich
    and famous like me. Not  'cause mom and dad have mucho buckos and
    sent junior off to expensive guitar school to get him out of their
    hair anyway." All this talk reminds me of when I was a kid and
    we used to brag about "my dad bought me a better xxxxx than yours."
    
    It seem like everyone compares equipment and ability like its sports.
    I remember "my baseball glove is better than yours because so and
    so's name is on it". Now it's the same in music. I used to buy
    guitar player magazine for the articles. Now its so full of (not
    in these exact words) "hey look at this dandy little gizmo now
    you can can make all sorts of wierd little sound like me" ads that
    I don,t bother with any of them.
     
    Whatever happened to art in music. Pretty soon it will be "I'm
    going to go home and swill beer until I'm into mild stupor and
    watch the music game, band x is playing band y, band x might win
    though because Stygmy Pigway on lead guitar play's lightning fast
    double tapping augminished dimented scales on his scalloped 
    triple neck, jumbo fretted, LED marker, on board EQ, double torsion
    whammy with cruise control guitar".
    
    So much for my comments...after all it is Fryday! ;^)(^:
    
    Dennis_who_still_likes_gadgets
    
    
    
    

    On guitar endorsements, y'know I don't think that the vast majority of
    folks buy X's guitar with the thought that it'll make them play like X,
    and I don't think X endorse's the guitar with the thought to giving
    that impression.
    
    There's no question that some folks buy a particular ____ because their
    hero uses it (I plead Nolo Contendere on the Morse guitar), but some
    folks seem to think that the artist is pulling something on the
    consumer, and sorry, I don't think that's what happens.
    
    	db

    All the endorsement talk reminds me of some of the car commercials.
    How about Ricardo Montibon endorsing the Chryler Cordoba. Here is
    a man that has spent much of the last 30 years in the back seat
    of a Rolls Royce trying to sell you on Detroit Iron.
    
    	Lllllllooook, what they have done to my guitarrrrrrrrr!!!
    	It looks and plays mavvvvvvvvvvvelous
                                          
       Like the man says, it's Friday !!!
    
    	Mark Jacques
    

    re .36
    
    	The Guitars that I saw Steve Vai play were either made by
    Performance Guitar here in Hollyweird, or the flame-type guitar
    which was made by some company in New York.
    
    	You mean Stanley was not playing his Travis Bean???
    Or is he like EVH, and only uses his trademark guitar on vinyl,
    and uses other stuff onstage.
    
    	Yeah, everybody's right, people are playing Ibanez, but all
    of these guys (except maybe for holdsworth) didn't start out with
    Ibanez.  I think of Performance when I think of Vai and Dweezil,
    I think of Travis bean when I think of Stanley, and I think of Gibson
    or Gretsch when I think of Benson.   They probably all play Ibanez
    now.   Maybe they're great guitars????
    
    Ashley

    Oh yeah, Dweezil also endorses Carvin.
    
    In nausea-green, of course.

    >	The Guitars that I saw Steve Vai play were either made by
    > Performance Guitar here in Hollyweird, or the flame-type guitar
    > which was made by some company in New York.
    
    This was probably before the JEM guitars were made.
    
    BTW, in the new American Musical Supply catalog, the regular JEM
    guitars are going for $969 or so, and the 777 model (fancier 
    paint and autographed) are going for $1269 or so.  I got the
    impression that this includes the case cause normally they indicate
    the price of the case separately and there was no such indication
    for the JEM guitar.
    
    So you see, they're really not any more than the myriad of other
    high-end guitars.
    
    	db

    Mark, 
    	I used to have a Firebird VII. Got it in '74 for $375.
    It had an ebony fretboard, block inlay, and "Fretless Wonder"
    frets. It was hanging on the wall at Chas. Bean Music, in
    Worcester, next to a reissue Firebird V for $525. I couldn't 
    believe it, so I bought it. It sounded great, but because of
    the extremely low frets, I couldn't bend the strings without
    them bottoming out. So I traded it for a Les Paul sunburst.
    I'm still kicking myself over that one.
    
    Neal

    > He said he was amazed at how much they aim to please. I cannot 
    > remember ever seeing an Ibanez ad endorsed by Jeff Beck.
    
    In a recent interview, Vai said that he had the JEM model pretty much
    designed and even gave his OWN prototypes to various companies and
    told them to build them.  He was not looking for an "endorsement"
    deal.  He was looking for a company to build what he felt was a quality
    stock instruments.  This is why it's not called "the Steve Vai" guitar.
    
    Vai said pretty much the same thing as Beck, that Ibanez was the 
    only company that seemed genuinely interested in building a quality
    guitar.
    
    A friend of mine used to have an Ibanez "Artist" (there have been
    several "Artist" models, this was the first) and I was very impressed
    but I didn't like the width of the neck or the style of frets.  It
    also weighed a ton and since I practice standing up, I knew my back
    would be achin' if I played it on a regular basis.
    
    	db

    The original Artists were intended as an alternative to a Les Paul.
    They had shallow double cutaways, dual coil humbuckers, and were
    about as heavy as a Les Paul. At the time (late 70's/early 80's
    the Les Paul was about the most popular guitar going. Nowadays
    the Strat is probably the most popular, and low and behold, the
    new artists resemble Strats.
                 
    Mark Jacques
    

    The reason why I would value an artists endorsement of a guitar
    is when (as in the case of Vai) the artist says..."look, here is
    what I want in a guitar.  I know enough to know that I need this
    and that, and this and that will best suit my style."  In this case
    an endorsement is valuable to me.
    
    But when an endorser says "put a left-handed headstock on because
    it looks cool, and paint it snakeskin", I don't find that valuable
    at all. 
    
    If Ibanez is going up to people and saying "Look, tell us what your
    perfect guitar would be, and we'll make it", that's fantasic.
    But I think a lot of companies are just paying someone for their
    name, which isn't (imo) valuable to the player, the company, and
    especially me.
    
    Ashley
    

    
    	Paying 1K to 2K for a brand spanking new guitar with all the
    ammendities already installed is no more ridiculous than paying
    10K to 20K for a brand spanking new automobile. To realistically
    afford either, I'd say it's use must be part of, or somehow generate,
    the money it takes to pay for it. Like using a car to get to work.
    	Therefore, perhaps for a working musician who needs everything
    "just right" from t=0, a $1500 guitar is a good investment regarding
    that it helps him do his job better, more accurately, and with less
    hassles.
    	To Us hobbiests, who might play occasionally and certainly wont
    be able to afford the monthly payments for a $1500 guitar based
    on what we make gigging, the idea only seems far fetched because
    of the particular point we see it from.
    	I *could* have gotten a $5000, used, automobile - and saved
    a helluva lot of money. But would that one *always* start *every*
    time I needed it? I don' know...Would that one still be purring
    like a kitten 30K miles from now, or would I be amidst changing
    all kinds of things because they've simply *worn out*? I don' know...
    And since I have absolutely no real knowledge of how that one was
    driven, beat on, abused, what confidence do I have that it's still
    all that it appears to be?                         
    
    	New is New and solves all of the above problems. Why jerk yourself
    around, when, in a performance situation, you want to be quite sure
    of everything. I play self mutilated -er- customised guitars. Before
    the Springjam, that funny lookin' bass was completely dissassembled
    and gone through, electrical connections resoldered, new strings,
    new grounding strategy. NO WAY was *I* gonna embarrass myself and
    bandmates with an equipment failure; BRAAAAAAAAZZZZZAAAAAAAAAAAAP!!!
    If I could help it.                                 
    
    	Joe Jas
    
    
    	Joe Jas  

    
    I certianly agree that paying $1500 or more for a guitar is
    reasonable...  
    
    What I don't see is how a glorified Strat (not meant as a flame)
    can cost so much when you can turn around and buy stuff like Alembics,
    B.C. Riches, Pedullas, etc. that are incredible pieces of woodworking
    and electronics for simialr bucks.
    
    Maybe the thing that I like least about the current high end guitars
    is the trend for solid finishes.  I like looking at the wood....ask
    Stevie K. who has the most beautiful piece of quilted maple I have
    ever seen on his Mockingbird....why paint over it????

    						Brian