Conference napalm::guitar

    I have a Kahler, it's easy to install if you are brave and can use
    a router (I installed mine in about 2 hours)..it works very
    well...stays in tune for lng periods of time, can be used radically
    as a whammy with good tuining retention (as far as I know none of
    them are perfect..just alot closer than non-locking systems), it
    has the added nice feature of having to bar stay where you put it
    Rik told me that his drops out of the way all the time, mine stays
    put. On a Kahler you can adjust the spring tension and get a stiff
    or soft action whammy....I ran mine soft for a while but prefer
    stiff....
    
    They use to cost $200 not installed.....
    
    dave

    I've tried Dave Bottom's and Dave Dreher's and one on an sg in
    some store in newport r.i. (this was all after i had figured out
    how to use one...sort of). All three stay where you put them and
    I was able to use all three easier and better than the one that
    I use everyday on my washburn. Mine swings away after use and pivots
    as it sees fit. I have to go searching for it when  I want it. I've
    actually gotten pretty good at scooping it up, but, tis better to
    have one stay in place. I think. Except for the eternal pivoting,
    mine works quite well, stays in tune as long as any (i have nut
    lock and bridge lock) and looks cute.  If I purchase another one,
    which i will when I can, it will be one with a heel-whammy.
    

    My Carvin has a Kahler on it and I'm very pleased with it.  I think
    it helps the guitar stay in tune even if you're not using the whammy
    bar.
    
    Once the strings are worn in, I've found that I only have to touch
    the tuning once every 45 minutes or so (and I'm very fussy about
    being in tune) as long as I'm not "dive-bombing" every 5 seconds
    or doing 3 or 4 step bends.
    
    I set my bar action very light, although I always try and keep it
    as stiff as possible while still being able to do the things I do
    with it.   I need it light because one of things I'm working on
    involves using the bar in conjunction with a volume pedal to do a
    steel guitar imitation.  This requires that I be able to use the bar 
    to alter the pitch accurately which I find hard to do with a stiff bar.
    
    	db   

    
    My Jackson has a Kahler on it, and I like it a lot. The `soft' touch
    takes a bit of getting used too as it feels as if you can pull the
    strings right off the neck! It's pretty extreme, I can drop two
    octaves on the low E and pull up a minor third on all the strings.
    It is tricky to get in tune with another instrument, because of
    the whole spring/tension thing, but once it's in tune it stay's
    there. I like this a lot better than the Floyd, as far as feel and
    tone go, the Floyd sounds too metallic to me. Also, it bugs me how
    much you have to route and drill to install a Floyd Rose (it's less
    if you have a guitar previously routed for a spring whammy ie-strats)
    I hear the Wonderbar by Washburn doesn't go out of tune when you
    1)break a string 2) bend strings 3)tune up to another instrument.
    But I tried one and you could only drop notes about a minor 6th
    and pull up a major 2nd.

    One of the things that I don't like about the Kahler is the rinky dink
    arrangement they've come up with for Fender bolt on neck guitars, you
    have to shim the front of the neck about 1/16" up (just the front part)
    so the neck sits at an angle, this allows you to get the string action
    that you're probably accustomed to as the kahler sits very high on the
    body of the guitar......if you have had trouble with the neck moving
    side to side (if you're a power corder or a guitar slinger like me :-))
    then it will be aggravated by this.....my solutin has always been to
    shim the neck so tight I had to seat it with a mallet, my fender necks
    can't move side to side.... 
    
    I give Kahler exceptional marks for customer service...I wrote to them
    and complained that one of the string seats was chipping and they sent
    me six replacements.....they also called me at work here to discuss
    another questin I had....how to get the action low enough on my
    washburn A-20, they suggested routing the body down 1/16' where the bar
    sits so that it sits in the guitar to get the actin correct, gave me
    appropriate suggestions on how to avoid damaging the finish (scribe
    around the assembly so the finish doesn't chip when routing).....the
    guy I talked to had just doen this to two guitars belonging to someone
    in Def Lepard....he seemed to know what he was talking about.... 
                       
    A side note: I noticed a distinct change in the sound of my Lead one
    after I installed my kahler.....talking to others they have noticed a
    change in sound with their guitars when they added a whammy reguardless
    of make. I do know of one person who will not use a kahler because of
    the rollers the strings ride on at thje bridge, he claims it has to
    "mess" up the sound. In my case it didn't mess it up it just changed
    it, slightly less sustain...but it stays in tune better than anything
    I've ever seen... 
    
    
    I looked at a wonderbar (wahsburns whammy) it was not installed and
    looked very nice, it just bolts on with no routing necessary but since
    I have never had the chance to play one I've been waiting before buying
    my next bar.... 
    
    A good source for a Floyd Rose clone is Allparts out of Texas I
    believe....guitar player should have an ad, they had some reasonable
    fender compatable units similar to (exact copies of??) the Floyd rose
    bars for considerably less, I have been considering buying one for my
    Strat... 
    
    
    dave

    Well, I've gone over to Center music in Fram. and the Kahler 'Flyer'
    is $109 and $70 for installation.  I think this is my best bet.
    Can you aquire a better sustain from this addition?  Also, I'm a
    real monster on a whammy (i.e. serious case of the ritchie blackmores)
    and i'm wondering if kahlers kill the strings when dive bombs and
    other thoroughly obnoxious sounds are in effect?  I can't afford
    buying strings twice a week.  Thanks for all the advice!
    

    re: .6
    
    I used to break strings fairly frequently until I started using
    strings that were specifically made for kahler units (D'Addario
    make them as do many other string manufacturers).  They are somewhat
    hard to find, but available.
    
    These strings usually have some kind of reinforcement at the ball
    end (either a vinyl sleeve or soldering).
    
    Note that this limits your selection of string brands (not guages)
    but I've never felt the brand made that much difference.  In fact, Steve
    Morse (who endorses Ernie Ball) told me in candor that before he
    signed an agreement to endorse them (and got them for free) he used
    to use practically anything.  He never felt there was much difference
    between brands (bass guitar strings excepted).  Mostly between gauges.
    
    	db

    Well!  It seems that Kahler is winning by a majority vote.  Boy,
    it's a good thing I have a Kahler on my Washburn.  I have yet to
    really try anything with it, though.  I really don't know what to
    to with it except push and pull, and this gets boring after a few
    tries.  I'm sure I'm just missing something...heavy feedback or
    something!  I have no complaints on mine...that sucker stays tuned
    for quite some time.  I hope someone can pass a few tips on using
    this handy dandy little unit...maybe a new topic????  I sure
    would be interested.  At least to find some other uses for it....
    
    I don't use it much during playing time, but it's fun to goof with
    when you can crank your amp up and mess with the feedback.  In a
    previous letter, someone mentioned that you could adjust the tension
    on the unit...how?
    
    					Phil
      

    Hmm I'll try to remember.....on the bar unit there is a center bar
    (can't remember if the strings go over it or not) anyway there are
    two allen wrench type adjustments there...one adjusts the tension
    of the springs, the other adjusts the tension on the arm so it will
    fall away when not in use or stay where you put it depending on
    your preference..... 

    Oh yeah I meant to add that I solder my own strings so that I can
    use the strings of my choice (Kamen Preformers), you only need to
    solder the ball on the unwound strings, I've never had trouble with
    the wound strings breaking. Just use a standard soldering iron
    and solder and wet up the ball area where the string is wrapped
    back on itself. this will stop premature string breakage and save
    some $$$ as the price I saw for the pre-soldered strings was higher
    than standard strings....but that was a few years ago when they
    first came out, they may now be comperable in price.
    
    dave

    I noticed the allen wrench hole last night...and I do believe you're
    right.  I'll give it a try!
    
    				Phil
    

    Re.10  
    I don't understand.  Is your method anything like what Fender Bullets
    are?  Come, Come, Elucidate your thoughts.
    

    Hmmm let me try again.....first the problem....kahler trems will
    break your unwound strings fairly fast because they bind at the
    ball end in the bridge, if you use your bar alot, they will break
    real soon, I used to change strings before every gig (nce to twice
    a week) and still broke strings. So Ernie Ball and maybe some others
    came out with these strings where they soldered the wrap by the
    ball end, the wrap doesn't slip or bind and the strings last alot
    longer. These strings cost more, or at least when they first came
    out they did. So after consulting with the guy from Kahler he suggested
    that I do the solder job myself. It's quite simple.
    
    Get a soldering iron and turn it on. Get some solder. Get your strings.
    Solder the part of the string where the string is wrapped around
    itself near the ball. You're done. You only need to solder the unwound
    strings, (E,B,G).
    
    dave    

    excuse me, I'll just interject for a sec, thanx.
    I used to break strings a lot on my Kahler, the high E and B esp.
    I switched to the RPS strings for a while, then couldn't get them
    anymore, so I went back to regular GHS & Daddario strings, and I
    have not broken one single string since, I still pull that thing
    all the way up (in fact I take the fine tuners out so you can pull
    it up even higher). The only thing I can think of is I change now
    once a week instead of every two weeks. ???
    -WJB

    
    	When I play an axe that's equipped with a whammy, I find I have
    a certain control over "micro tonal" bending thats *very* pleasing
    to the ear. While dive bombs under full crank are fun, I find that
    "just a wiggle" gives an effect similar to flanging - without all
    the swish and tubular sounds due to phase cancellation. Of course,
    I coordinate whammy effects with the "pulse" or meter of the song
    I'm playing along with...
    
    	Another neat trick that *I* like to do is to bend a note sharp
    in the regular way while bending the whole string set flat with
    the whammy - sort of let the two gestures "fight it out". I know
    it sounds stupid and redundant, but you can get a real crazy bending
    sound by doing this. It too sounds very flangy and sooooo smooth.
    
    	Joe Jas
    

    	As usual, I'm late for life, none will ever read this. 
    	(probably) it's over a month old.  As state in the 
    	YOUR EQUIPMENT note.  My Ibanez has a kahler.  Putting it
    	on was a religoius experience.  The axe listed for 1,495 when
    	it was new.  I paid around 1,000 for it.  So you can imagine
    	the feel of regret when I dropped it off for the installation.
    	(Like no turning back)  But the installation was fine.  Mcduff
    	in Shresbury is top notch, (i think) and did an excelent job.
    	It changed the resonation of the axe though, so I had to get
    	used to that.  Also, I have a tendancy to play hard at times
    	and Les Pauls, Strats, Teleies, SG,s etc, would refuse to stay
    	in tune.  Even the Ibanze pre kahler, had it's moments.  But
    	now, no prob.  She don't go out of tune at all.  (even when
    	doing a pearl harbor.)
    	
    	The only problem is that I have a tendancy, at the worst 
    	possible moment, to snap the 009 e string.  It seems to be a
    	intermitent problem, anmd self inflicted.  Ever play an axe
    	with a kahler on it with a string gone.  Don't bother.
    
    	The kahler calabrates tuning on balance.  A string goes, the
    	balance point for tuning is gone.
    
    	AT anyrate, I like it.  When I play an ace with out one, I find
    	my self reaching for it alot.  \
    
    /ray

    re: .16
    
    Are you aware of the availability of strings especially made for
    the Kahler that help to minimize string breakage?  The common element
    to these sets is some kind of reinforcement at the ball end (usually
    soldered or plastic sleeves).
    
    I had the same problem and since I've started using the special
    strings I've yet to break a string (and I'm one of these cheap
    skates who only puts on new strings for important gigs/jams/etc.
    I.E.  I generally practice with very dead strings.)
    
    	db

    	What's the name of those strings?  I've had that same problem
    with my Kahler.  Breaks the high strings like crazy!
    	
    
    					Phil
    

    Most string brands now make sets for the Kahler unit.
    
    I tend to use the Daddario's when I can find them although at the
    moment I'm using "Stay-In-Tune No-Break" sets.   The D'addarios
    are inexpensive and good (I hold the somewhat renegade attitude
    that there just isn't a lot of difference between brands of guitar
    strings and so I tend to get what's cheapest.  Bass strings are
    another story though.)
    
    I think if you go into any decent music store you should be able
    to find at least one set for the Kahlers.   They're getting to be
    more and more available.
    
    	db

    Ernie Ball RPS (rreinforced plain strings) work ok, I've tried them
    on my Kahler and after three weeks still no breaks...
                                             
    dave

    Yes, I know about the new reinforced stings that are out now
    a days.  Kahler makes em, Ernie Ball makes em, and a few
    others.  (Acutally, in reality, there's only 2 or 3 string
    making companies in the country.  Everyone puts their name
    one them and hypes up *THEIR* String.  It's a crock.  I
    agree, pick the cheapest.)
    
    I use Dean Marcley.  I like them, and I've heard tell that
    they are *ONE* of the three companines.  This could be untrue.
    At any rate, I've gotten used to them, I change my stirngs often,
    and these Marcleys hold their brilliance long after others I've
    used (E.B. Diaddrio, GHS) are dead.  Of course this is a dirrect
    attribute as to how much the piece is played.  We usually work 3
    out of 4 weekends a month, and plus that pick it up every day.
    
    I've found life spans to vary between these brands quite a bit.
    The Marcleys hold out.  Why when all strings are made by 2 or
    three manufactures,  I wish I knew.

    So with a little luck anb God on my shoulder, I can go awhile
    with out a break.  But there are times when just a touch, and I
    mean *a touch* and PLINK !  E string death !  I keep about 10 spare
    e strngs, 5 spare b and g's and one spare full set always.  I've
    also gotten pretty quick on changing a broken string in a dark 
    club. :)

    ray you can use any strings you want but with the kahler, it really
    doesn't matter, but you will break significantly less high e's if
    you use the reinforced strings or if you solder the wrapped portion
    of the string.
    
    To solder: just the wrapped portion near the ball, a little goes
    a long way and you only need to do the plain strings. This can be
    done fast and no damage is done to the strings.
                                                              
    Kahler'e engineer recommended this to me when I wrote an complained
    about breakage. He said that the wraps bind on the bar, just in
    front of where the ball is help in place, it frequently gets scored
    up, and then the wraps slip (causing high e's to drift in tune)
    and will eventually get weakened and break. I've had a few that
    wouldn't stay in tune until I changed the string, apparently if
    I had not changed the string it would have broken.
    
    I used to solder my Kamen performers , but now that I live in Maine
    I can't get them anymore so I buy any old thing like Ball's RPS,
    the RPS string work fine.
    
    I believe that Markley makes their own strings as does Martin,
    Kamen, and several others.  Most of the "generic" store brands are
    actually Ernie Balls if I can believe my old store owning buddy.
    
    dave
                                                       
    

    Hey, soldering the ball.  I never thought of that !!  No sh*t !!
    
    Thanks Dave...  I'll try it...  I really never thought of that.
    
    But the problem you descirbed is the same on I have.  Same break
    spot.  Right at the ball.

    I suppose this is a better place to bring up instead of the equipment
    note.  My kahler drops different distances on different strings.
    also, with all six strings on it, and the bar pointing towards the
    headstock, it's only about and inch and a quarter of the guitar,
    not allowing a lot of room for Pearl Harbors and such.  Can anyone
    help me on either of these? these are the only two drawbacks to
    this nifty unit that bother me. I need a REMEDY!
    

    		To try and help out on reply 24....
    	            
    		Have you recently changed to a different string
    	gauge (I.E. a heavier gauge?)    	
    
    		Sounds like what you may have to do is tighten up the
    	tension on your kahler.  It's one of the set screws on the top
    	where the strings straddle before going on the rollers.  (Infact
    	it is the same piece you screw the bar into.)  One of the set
    	screws on that peice tighten the bar up so it doesn't swing, the
    	other manipulates the tesnsion.
    
    		This screw (I'm not sure without looking at it, which
    	one) when turned, will pick up the bar.  (You can see it happen
    	while you turn it)  It will alos tight up your action, so be
    	be ready, you may notice your strings start to fight you, but
    	you'll get used to it.
                                
    		This shouldn't require more than a complete turn or
    	two to pick your bar up off the body enough to get the bar where
    	you can use it.
    
    	< My Kahler drops different distances on different strings >
    
    		Yes it does, and always will.  (I assume you mean different
    	string gauges)  If you start off using 9's then jump up to 10's
    	you're applying more pounds of pressure with the heavier strings.
    	This effects the *balance* of the kahler.  You have to readjust
    	the tension once you do this.  You're best to get one gauge
    	string and stick with it to avoid this hassel.  I had the same	
    	problem when I tried to switch to a differnet gauge.  I took
    	the set (Dean Marcley Light top heavy bottoms), off and put
    	the 9 gauge set back on.
                                                         
    
    		Hope this helps.
    /ray

    There's the two allan screws on the sides with pins holding the
    widget where the string windings are, and I'm assuming this is what
    you're talking about.  I've tried mucking about with them, just
    makes the thing freeze up and you can't move it, much like a bike
    when you tighten up the wheels to much.  
    Either that or the allan wrench on the widget, but I wasn't given
    a wrench that fit that.  I'll have to find one and fiddle with it.
    
    On different strings, what I meant was the individual strings on
    the guitar, (eadgbe) all aren't equally going down, so if I wanted
    to bend, lets say, a B to an A, I can't do it, cos the strings are
    going different distances, thus it renders an utterly offensive
    sound.  This probably can't be remedied, either.  Trouble in Paradise.
    
    		regards
    

    Well the adjustment point I'm refering to is on the top (what's
    a Widjet)  Look where you screw the bar onto the bridge.  The two
    screws are above that.  In between the B and g or E and B string.
    
    If that don't do it, bring it in some where where they install em.
    
    

    Does anyone have any information or experience with the Kahler Fulcrum 
    tremelos? It costs roughly $100 and is supposed to fit into Strats
    with no modifications. Sounds like it's a good way to go if you're
    not into heavy bar antics, but want a little more trem reliability.
    Dan    

    A student of mine has one and we both hate it!!
    He took it out after a few months of torture with it, and installed
    a Floyd. Wise choice! The problem being the loose parts makes it
    very hard to get a nice, smooth, controlable vibrato. Plus the 
    metal didn't make for good harmonics. Just our observations. 
    My suggestion is spend the x-tra bucks for a floyd, even if your
    not a whammy fiend, its still better in the long run.
    
    -Bj

    Hmm..well I'm considering which system to put on my Washburn A-20.
    I realize that I made several statements here in endorsement of
    the Kahler system. I have one criticism of kahler now....the bar
    is too soft. I tried a floyd rose on a friends guitar and found
    that after I got used to it it seemed to be easier to control than
    my kahler.
    
    My problem is this. I'm fairly certain that the kahler changed the
    sound of the guitar I put it on, enough so that I wonder if the
    rollers vice clamps are the problem. Now my washburn has a sound
    that is astonishing (to me anyway) and i don't want to f*** that
    up, but without a whammy bar it's an incomplete guitar. Mounting
    a kahler would require that I route out (or have routed out) the
    entire bar approximately 1/16th of an inch to sink the bridge down
    low enough so the strings aren't deep :-) rather than merely high.
    (this comes from Kahler's design engineer who I spoke with on the
    phone...seems he had to do it for Def Lepard or somebody when they
    installed theirs...) This is on top of the regular routing required
    to mount the kahler. A floyd rose requires that all that standard
    strat type routing be done (big hole in the guitar). Washburn makes
    a thing called the wonderbar (saw one didn't play it) that supposidly
    doesn't require any routing at all. Anybody ever try one? How does
    it feel? return to tune etc.?
    
    So git bangers, what effect and how much effect does the routing
    have on the sound of a guitar? Or is the sound primarily the pickups
    and not the wood (solid body electrics only) as at least one repairman
    has insisted?
                                 
    dave
    

    On the bar being too "soft", that's adjustable on my Kahler.
    
    	db

    Re: db
    
    I think I know what he means, not really in terms of tension, but
    moreso the density of the bar itself. I've ripped two kahler bars
    in two on my Jackson. I'd much rather just get rid of the Kahler
    system all together and get another Floyd, they're pretty cool systems.
    
    RE: Wonderbar. They are not too bad. They require only mounting
    holes in the guitar to mount (flush-mount to guitars surface), so
    that's not to bad. In terms of performance, it seems to have a more
    limited range than the Floyd or Kahler systems. The wonderbar I
    tried only could drop a not about a 6th or maybe a 7th interval,
    and could only pull up a not like a minor 3rd. The Floyd and Kahler
    both (depnding on set-up) average an octave drop and a pull of a
    perfect 5th. Wonderbar also calims to have the tension thing worked
    out whereas if you bend a string the others will not go falt, or
    if you break a string the guitar will remain in perfect tune. I
    don't know how true this is.
    
    Good luck Dave Bottom...
    
    wjb

    re the sound of the guitar
    
    From my experience with Strat style guitars, I'd say that the sound
    would definitely change on one of those if you start cutting wood.
    I once had one whose tone changed drastically when I put on a heavier
    pickguard!  I'm a firm believer in the idea that the body of an
    electric contributes significantly to tone.  If the Washburn has
    a fairly massive body or if you usually play heavily distorted,
    it probably won't matter much though.
    

    /rick

    RE: .33
    
    I disagree with that statement about if you play fairly heavily
    distorted, you can't tell the difference betweem instruments. It
    was also a discussion in the Rockman note about not being able
    to distinguish tonalities in the heavy distortion setting. I can
    hear the difference between a single coil pickup and a humbucker
    both so heavily distorted and compressed its not funny. I think
    the sound difference is pretty obvious as a matter of fact.

    Thanks thanks for all the inputs...
    
    My kahler is adjustable also....it doesn't get stiff enough for
    my taste.
    
    I'm leaning to the floyd rose primarily because I like the feel.
    It scares me to think about routing the guitar out so much though.
    I guess I'll have to drive to a real city (Augusta doesn't have
    any music shops, for that matter only k-mart has records yuuch!)
    and hang out in a few music shops and try everything in sight. The
    other reason I'm leaning to the floyd rose is I'm probably gonna
    put the same system on my strat....having trems with the same
    performance/feel on each of my two main guitars is desirable.
    
    dave

      I have a problem, similar to that discussed earlier in the note 

i.e : I own a Tokai Custom (strat-like) which is fitted with a Floyd-Rose
      variant called an "Ayers Rocker V" , It's got a beautify action and
      feel to use but in two months I have broken EVERY string at least TWICE
      - The soldering idea as applied to Kahlers won't work because the strings
      all break in the same place -- Exactly on top of the Bridge
      I dont use a lot of whammy and when I do it's usually fairly light,
      I really like the guitar and dont really want to have to sell it nor
      for that matter could I afford to fit a Kahler at the present time.

      I would be very interested to know If anyone else has had/cured this
      problem.

      - Brian.
        
      
    

    Re: .36
    
    EVERY string TWICE in two months?? That's almost two a week.
    That only solution I've found to the Floyd string problem is using
    a light guage of strings, so they can stretch a bit more from the
    tremendous tension happening on the Floyd (notice the string break
    at the greatest point of tension). I change strings about every 10
    days, because the high E or B strings don't last much longer
    than that.                                 
    
    I use .009's and they work ok, some people I know use .008's with
    their Floyd's. I haven't heard of too many people using .010's
    on them, they would probably break a lot more frequently.
    
    wjb
    

    Believe it or Not ...  
    Yes EVERY string x2 , During one session 3 strings broke within
    20 minutes. I have tried different numbers of springs, (at the monment
    I have 5 attached == heavy action, slacken strings only - but at
    least the thing stays in tune when a string breaks).
    I use Dean Markley 009's . The only thing I noticed was a tendency
    for the trem to squeak sometimes as if the strings were rubbing
    on the bridge pieces !
    It's so bad that I have to have a second guitar during gigs, because
    changing strings on a floyd isnt speedy.
    
    -- BD. 
         

    re: Strings don't last more than ten days
    
    Is this beacuse they break or is it that you play them so much
    that they are just worn out? I play alot but seem to get a bit more
    mialge than ten days....but then when I was gigging I changed strings
    before every gig (like thursday for a Friday/Saturday gig)
    
    dave

    Re: The_one_and_only_dave_bottom
    
    Both. They get worn out real quick from stretching and eventually
    break. 10 days is a max, I can't keep a string on longer than that.
    
    This is for the floyd though, the Kahler strings last way longer.
    Dave, you have a Kahler, don't you?
    
    wjb

    Yes I have a Kahler, if I'm nice I can get a couple of weeks easdy
    out of strings....since I'm not gigging these days I let them go
    until they are real scrummy, or they start to break. Still haven't put
    a whammy on my washburn or my strat...I'm thinking of putting a
    Jackson on the strat (Floyd rose clone but cheaper) and a wonderbar
    on the washburn....but for now I just want my MIDIVerb II to show
    up....maybe tonight...
    
    If you get a kahler either buy the Kahler strings, ernie ball RPS
    (reenforced plain strings) or use the soldering trick mentioned
    elsewhere in this note. 
    
    dave_the_one_and_only_?

On strings wearing out: I've become convinced that the oil from some
peoples fingers causes strings to wear out or get dirty faster than
the oil from other peoples fingers. In other words, the strings get
oily, (subtly) and because its different, some people's strings always
wear out faster than someone else. This seems especially the case for
acoustic strings.

      
                             
    Could any body out tell me the best whammy to fit to a strat
    the kind that was built with out a whammy , with the following :- 
    
    A/ No fuss and routing.
    
    B/ Reasonably priced.
    
                 
    PS/ A whammy with alround dynamics
    

    If you don't want to rout it then there is only one whammy that
    you can buy, the washburn wonderbar. Floyd rose (and clones) require alot of
    routing, similar to what is done for the stock fender trems, the
    kahler also requires routing but not near as much as the rose.
    
    good luck
    
    dave

    
    
    re:44. Thanks for that Dave, one point though how would you rate
    the wammys made by Honner .
    
    cheer's  Jon

    I can't say I have never played one..sorry
    
    dave

    For any of you who always wanted a floyd rose whammy but were put
    off by the cost (List is $225) there's hope. I bought a floyd rose
    clone, manufactured in Japan (I assume) fully licensed by floyd
    rose and built exactly the same for $79.95. I had it installed in
    my strat and the results were more than satisfactory, it looks the
    same, it plays the same and as far as I'm concerned it is the same.
    
    Try Stewart Mcdonalds Guitar Supply shop
        21 N. Shafer St.
        Box 900
        athens, ohio 45701
        (614) 592-3021
    
    they carry a wide assortment of replacement/repair parts at prices
    that are real good....such as EMG select pickups: humbuckers for
    $21.47, single coil for $17.50 etc....great place!
       
    dave

    Since I've now owned both Kahler and Floyd rose bars I thought it
    might be interesting to compare the two. Keep in mind this is not
    gospel but my opinion.
                
    Kahler: Uses a cam/spring arrangement for tension. Tension is
    adjustable but the standard Kahler is a very soft action tremelo.
    I found it too soft for my taste. Kahler now offers a different
    set of springs to upgrade standard bars to feel more like the floyd
    rose or standard fender style tremelo.
    
    The rollers on the bridge seem to couse a slight loss of sustain.
    they do allow for excellant stay-in-tune capability. Strings will
    break at the bridge unless you solder the ball end to stop slippage
    of the twist or use ernie ball RPS (reenforced plain string) strings.
    
    The fine tuners on the kahler are precision and allow very fine
    resolution on tuning. This is the major area where I feel the kahler
    excells.
                                                   
    The kahler is easy to self install provided you have access to a
    router and can follow directions. I installed mine in less than
    three hours.
    
    The kahler nutlock is a screw on mount placed between the nut and the
    tunings keys, so you do not have to replace the nut. Each bridge saddle
    has an individual height adjustment (another area of excellance) and
    individual intonation adjustments. Changing strings is easy as it's a
    "drop the ball in" type attachment at the bridge. Only one tool is
    required, a allen wrench to unlock the nutlock. 
    
    I give it 7 out of 10
    
    Floyd rose:
    
    Good stiff action, just like the standar fender tremelo. Features
    fine tuning, but it is not as precision as the kahler sytle fine
    tuners, it's still very useable. Each string has it's own intonation
    adjustment but the string height is fixed with respect to each other
    string, height adjustments are made by raising/lowering each side
    of the entire bridge rather than being able to adjust the height
    of each string individually. This is a slight disadvantage in my
    mind. I find that my high and low e strings are higher than I used
    to set them when the g and d strings are adjusted for good action/low
    buzz.          
    
    The floyd rose nutlock requires some modification to the guitar;
    the nut must be removed, some wood routed out and the new locking
    nut is them bolted through the neck. This has the disadvantage of
    possibly weakening the neck at the nut, typically a weak spot anyway.
    You can always sub a kahler nutlock (cost $12 or so) and not use
    the standard FR nutlock if this worries you. (I did).
    
    The system also requires extensive routing if you do not currently
    have a fender style tremelo system you'll need to rout it out for
    one, ie: the big cavity in the back for the springs, the hole through
    the body at the bridge for the bridge to sit in, if you currently
    have a fender style tremelo you stil have to rout two holes at either
    side of the bridge for mounting the posts the bridge rides on (the
    G&L style 'fulcrum' mount). There are no instructions.
    
    Self installation should only be attempted by experienced woodworkers
    or guitar repairmen.    
    
    I seem to be breaking more high e strings than ever, all of them
    break at the bridge saddle. Changing strings is a bit more hassle
    than a kahler, you need an allen to unlock the nut and an allen
    to unlock the bridge saddle clamp, then you cut the ball end off
    the strings and clamp it in the saddle.
    
    I give it 8.5 out of 10
    
    Room for improvement: 
    
    kahler: action is the key for me, they are just too soft (yes I
    know they are adjustable, still too soft. If I still owned the guitar
    with the kahler in it I would be buying the heavy duty springs for
    the Floyd rose feel)
    
    floyd rose: fine tuners could be more precision, individual saddles
    should have height adjustments.
    
    Overall, I'd have to say that both systems do the job they are designed
    for ie: you can get radical with your tremelo bar and return if
    not in tune exactly, very very close.
    
    dbII

    One more disadvantage to the Kahler behind-the-nut system.  While
    it is trivial to install (4 tiny wood screws) almost any installation
    is going to require you to remove it to adjust the truss rod on
    guitars where the truss rod adjustment nut is just behind the nut.
    
    What makes matters worse is that in order to properly set the truss
    rod, the strings must be in tune.
    
    There are two methods I use to adjust the truss rod on my Carvin
    which has a Kahler:
    
    Method #1
    
    When the truss rod needs adjustment (generally twice a year according
    to the season), I remove the nutlock completely and restring the
    guitar.  After the strings have settled, I adjust the truss rod.
    At the next restringing I replace the nutlock.
    
    Of course, the disadvantage of this is that you have to go awhile
    without the nutlock.
    
    Method #2
    
    I determine which way the truss rod has to be adjusted and estimate
    "how much".   I loosen all the strings, and unscrew the wood screws
    that hold the nutlock in place.  Then I loosen all the strings either
    by detuning them, or by holding down the bar and move the nutlock
    over the nut with the strings in place.  This gives me access to
    the truss rod nut.
    
    I adjust the truss rod, reposition the nutlock in place, tune up
    and determine if further adjustment is necessary.  Usually it isn't.
    
    Obviously, this is a royal pain.
    
    I've been looking for a closed end wrench that would allow me to
    adjust the truss rod with everything in place (strings, nutlock,
    etc.) but I haven't found one with a small enough outline to fit
    over the nut.
    
    BTW, I've been told that Kahler now offers a nutlock with a flip
    tab instead of a allen screw.   With this, you wouldn't need any
    tools to change strings.
    
    I've tried Rose systems but I prefer the Kahler light action.
    I don't do any of those aggressive bar things like dive bombs and
    such.   I don't use the bar much but one of the things I do is
    use the bar to do is something like a "bend in tune", and I find that
    the stiffer the action, the less control you have over the pitch.
    
    Although I've played Kahlers that stay in tune when you use them
    aggressively, mine doesn't.  It probably needs an adjustment I haven't
    yet figured out how to make.
    
    	db

    Good point dave, I'm in that situation myself.
    
    RE: tuning, My kahler was better at staying in tune than the floyd
    rose, it wold stay in tune for weeks at a time (within a semi-tone)
    no matter how radical I got with the stick.... 
    
    dbII

     A DIR/TITLE="whammy" got me here so this "might" be the best place
     to ask.....
     
     Where can I get a "tremolo tailpiece" handle for a '64 Fender strat?
     It doesn't have to be 24 years old, but I would like the correct
     thread size at least.  Is this something I need to order from a place
     like Stewart McDonalds or Music Dealer Service, or can I just walk
     into E. U. Wurlitzers and get one?  I can travel anywhere around
     eastern Mass and southern N.H. 
     
     Thanks for any info,
     Dave

    Check note 424 for a vendor which sells original Fender parts. 
    Otherwise check with someplace that does Fender repairs.  I'm not
    from the Mass/NH area, so I can't make any recommendations on local
    shops.
    
    If your current handle is just stripped (and the socket isn't) you
    might be able to rethread it using a die which you can get from
    a hardware store.  Just a thought.
    
    Greg

    I bought and installed the heavy duty springs and arm for the kahler
    that's supposed to make it feel more like a floyd rose. It's easy
    to install, remove the tremelo unit (4 screws) remove the old springs
    (2 screws per) install the new springs and put it back on the body.
    
    In practice it seems to be close the the feel of a floyd now, with
    all the advantages of the kahler system (whatever they are)
    
    A bit pricy at $15+ but worth it if your Kahler feels wimpy.
    
    dbii

    I've played a friends Kahler with the heavy springs and really like
    it!  A lot nicer feel than the soft springs IMO.
    
    Greg

    After using it for a night I have the following addition to my note.
    The new heavy duty bar arm sucks, it won't stay in place (yes I know
    about the adjustment for this and it doesn't seem to help) I might use
    the old arm but I suspect that they gie you a new heavier one so you
    don't bust the old one off in the bridge...it also sits a bit higher
    than a floyd arm (yes I'm getting that picky!) but the lack of the
    ability to put it someplace and leave it there is my main irritation.
    Still the heavier springs make this a usable device again..
    
    dbii

    In the new Stewart McDonald's catalog there is a device made by
    Hipshot called a Stay-trem (I think that's what it was). It looks
    like its a spring loaded rod and mounting hardware that fits in
    the middle spring position (fits a Fender/floyd rose style trem)
    and pushes the bridge back into position after you release the bar.
    According to the write up it fixes one of my gripes with most/all
    whammy bars: When you tune a string the others won't go out of tune.
    
    Anybody know anything about this device? I'd be interested in knowing
    if it really works.
    
    
    price was $29.95, a bit steep for the actual hardware but worth
    it to me if it actually works.
    
    dbii

    Yeah, I saw that last night myself, and was equally interested.  It
    looks (from the picture) like a logical design that would work.
    
    I want the Mini Flying V!!  
    
    Stewart-MacDonalds prices are sure going up, the guitar body blanks are
    now $44.00, I remember when they were $11.  Sheesh!  It's starting to
    look like they're not going to be very economical anymore.
    
    
    
    

    being the way I am I bought a Trem-setter from Stewart McD's. Thsi
    is sort of a mini-review.
    
    I ordered via plastic money Monday, it arrived UPS Thursday (not
    bad). The kit includes fairly extensive instructions that only confused
    me a little. I installed it in about an hour (and I was being careful).
    Essentially this is what you do: remove the old spring anchor claw
    (or whatever you'd call it, the thing the springs hook to other
    than the bridge) and replace it with two seperate ones, one for
    each of the outside springs. Then you retune to 'slighly flat'
    (whatever that means) and wedge the tremelo block to the 'full string
    raise position' (this means as far as the bar will pull the strings
    sharp) and measure 3 5/16" from the tremelo block and mount a piece
    of metal that will hold the trem setter in place. Then you  hook
    the shaft of the tremsetter into the tremelo block in the middle
    spring hole (I had to drill the hole out!) then you adjust it so
    that when you clamp down on the shaft it's set according to the
    instructions (this part won't make sense unless you could see the
    thing). After that you tune and it's installed. Furthur adjustment
    is necessary to get it just right for you, essentially there is
    a balance between a real stiff bar action and not drifting when
    you fine tune a string.
    
    My overall impression is that it should work (the design makes sense
    to me) and my guitar seemed to be more stable and (this may be a
    product of the hype in the instructions and my impressionable mind)
    I seemed to get a slight increase in sustain/fullness of sound,
    them notes just seemed stronger and sharper to me... Cords definately
    were better than before, I assume as less of the strings vibration
    is lost to the springs...
    
    
    
    for what it's worth
    
    dbii

    
    
    	Kin I see???
    
    
    Steve

    Kin ya drop me the address and price to where I can order one of
    these gizmo's ?  That sounds nifty.
    
    Thanx,
    
    jc

Speaking of whammy's, etc...

Is there a decent tremolo system that can be easilymounted on a Les Paul
(ie. no body routing)? I heard rumours of a Kahler that is like that, but
yet to actually see one. 

What is the cost of the unit?

Any advantage/disadvantage to not routing the body to have a tremolo 
installed? (I dunno - I just *hate* to go carving up my guitars...)

Thanx,
Alan S.

    The only bar I know of that doesn't require routing is the Washburn
    wonderbar (and I heard they were being discontinued).
    
    The Kahler, if it's the cam type bar, requires a hole about 2" square
    and of a depth of about 3/4"...I put one in my Lead one and it wasn't
    hard to do but you do have to rout the git...the one advantage of
    the kahler is that you don't need to rout a hole all the way through
    the guitar to house the spring assembly (like you do on a strat
    type trem which includes the Floyd Rose systems).
    
    re: address for the trem-setter
    
    StewartMcDonald's  800-848-2273
    
    dbii

    Alan,
    
    I saw that Kahler has a couple of models to choose from.  They DO
    make one that will hook onto your standard studs, and won't require
    you to carve the snot out of your LP.  I know this for a fact, cuz
    I had an LP Custom, and I put one on it.  It worked great.
    
    jc (who like Kahlers AND Floyds !)

    The whammy on the new strats, with the locking tuners and the whatzit
    steel nut works great...Paul Bararre (little feat) ggot radical
    on his last night and it definately stayed in tune.
    
    dbii

    I think that the Washburn Wonderbar is the BEST 'whammy' system
    that you can get.  pretty stiff action; no springs but a tension
    rod. It keeps those low strings stable when you're bending the high
    strings.  I have a guitar with  a Rose on it and when I bend the
    high strings the low ones go very flat!  As a result, you need to
    bend much much harder because the bridge works against your bend.
    The Wonderbar installs on the surface of the guitar and is fully
    adjustable.  Washburn has discontinued them because they were too
    expensive to build.  They are far more complex that the Kahler or
    Rose.  The nut lock is not the best though.  I ended up replacing
    mine with one that was user friendly,i.e. needs no tools and doesn't
    break strings.
    
    A word of caution;  since the wonderbar was so expensive to make,
    Washburn started to market a lowcost model.  It was made out of
    poor grade metal and the rollers were not on ball bearings. It was
    not good at all.  So try to find an older one. They have twelve
    rollers each packed with ball bearings.n  truely the porche of whammys.
    

    Thanks for the clarification on the Wonderbar Charlie!  I remember a
    friend of mine had one (Circa 1985)  on his flying V, and he said it
    was a great tremolo...much better than the Kahler or Floyd.  Just
    recently a student of mine had one on his Washburn elec, and I thought
    it was kind of crappy and cheap.  You info about the re-design of the
    Wonderbar in the latter models makes much more sense now.

    one word about Wonderbars ...
    
    Even though you can control string spacing to a certain 
    extent, the Wonderbar is designed for guitars with WIDE
    necks. I tried to put one on my old JB Strat and both the
    high and the low E strings were off the neck by the 20th
    fret. Not a good situation. So be wary of this. I had to
    return the Wonderbar.
    
    -Dave

    Got sick of my Baretta, played bad.
    
    Took the heel spacer out.
    	( Made from Balsa, traditional for Nut Spacers in Spain )
    Lowered Floyd screws to lowest 
    	(screwed all the way in)
    Tightened springs so they pull the Floyd into top
    	
    Took spacers out of mut ( paper inserted to make nut higher)
    OK,
    	then I had to release the tensions on string block screws, 
    	because the screws are too long ( can be fixed with grinder).
    
    RESULT:
    	Clearly the Floyd is The Bar for the One-Way-Whammy.
    This means IF uou want to pull up on the notes, get something else,
    BUT if you  want a Fender-replacement 1 way Whammy,
    Floyd Rules.
    
    Note:
    The nut supplied with my Classic Width Kramer was not the Wide nut.
    Then after that I'll have to plane and refret the board.
    Then Banish Forever spacers from nuts for me!

    Coupla questions:
    
    	After deciding I like to have a mixed-gauge string set on my kahler 
    (.11 bottoms, .10 tops), I find that the tension now pulls the kahler
    way forward, unless I tune down to D, which is fun, but not always
    practical.  Does anyone know the measurement(for lack of a better term)
    of the allen which adjusts the tension screw in the middle of the unit?
    Failing that, do you figure I can pick one up at any vanilla music
    store with a kahler sticker on the door?
    
    I never received a key when I bought the thing (lo, 4-5 years ago), and
    have never found one that fits it.  
    
    Thanks for any info.
    
    
    				/craig
    

    	Craig,
    
    	It should be a 'vanilla' (English) size that you could find on a
    set, were you to purchase one at Sears, etc...  If I can remember, I'll
    check mine when I get home tonight and post tomorrow.
    
    	joe.

    I just bought a trem-tool at Daddys for a the Kahler super-pro,
    it has 3 allen tools on it including the teeeeny weeeeeeny one used to
    adjust action.

    This is a question on string trees.
    
    My Schecter has "roller" type trees (not like the Fender style).  When
    I use the whammy I can go out of tune.  I hear a "zing" of the strings
    slipping on *something*.  Not sure if it's the nut or the trees. 
    
    Ideas?  Time for the old nut clamp solution?
    
    As far as lubricating these things, can I just use good old "Lock-Ease"
    graphite or is there something better?  
    
    							Brian

re: .74

>    My Schecter has "roller" type trees (not like the Fender style).  When
>    I use the whammy I can go out of tune.  I hear a "zing" of the strings
>    slipping on *something*.  Not sure if it's the nut or the trees. 
    
String binding *can* occur on the nut, or it could be the  rollers are
sticking.  The sticking could be at the bridge, also.  You can sometimes
get the strings back in tune by yanking on them.

Trying lubing the rollers and see if that helps.  I just did
the ones on my Carvin's Kahler (at the bridge, not the trees, though) with
WD-40 'cause that's what I had lying around the house.  I imagine Lock-Ease
would work also.

>    Ideas?  Time for the old nut clamp solution?
    
Nut clamps are a pain!  Not to mention they make your guitar look
ugly.  I just bought Sperzel locking tuners for my Carvin so I could
get rid of the stupid nut clamp.  A nice side benefit is that the locking
tuners make changing strings a breeze.

-Hal

>    My Schecter has "roller" type trees (not like the Fender style).  When
>    I use the whammy I can go out of tune.  I hear a "zing" of the strings
>    slipping on *something*.  Not sure if it's the nut or the trees. 
    
    More then likely, it's on the nut.  If it's a little tight (slots cut
    for thinner strings then you're using), or if it's worn a little (round
    wound strings tend to make little grooves in 'em), then the strings
    will bind in the slot causing this kind of problem.  Find some nut
    files and clean up the slots, then put a little lube in there, and I
    think things will probably be a lot better.
    
    As far as lube goes, I use that Magik Guitar Lube stuff.  Has teflon in
    it (if I remember right) and works as well as anything else I've used. 
    I'd bet the lock-ease stuff would probably work just as well, but it's
    messy because of the color of the graphite in the oil, so I wouldn't
    use it on a guitar with a maple board.
    
>    Ideas?  Time for the old nut clamp solution?
    
    That depends on how much you use the whammy, and how extreme the use is
    that you give it.  If you like the mega-divebombs, major third string
    pulls and stuff, and want any tiny hope of finding the thing somewhere
    around being in tune again after you do 'em, the locking system is
    really the only way.  However, don't even consider a locking nut if
    your guitar doesn't have fine tuners at the bridge.  I once had a
    guitar like that (for about 1 day...) and it was the biggest
    frustration I've ever experienced.  The locknut pulls the strings out
    of tune just slightly, so you have to estimate how much it's gonna
    change (and it'll vary for each string) and try and compensate.  Then
    the strings stretch a little and you have to do it all over again. 
    Unacceptable.
    
    If you decide to do it, the behind-the-nut style clamps are easier to
    install (no precision routing required) and don't change your tone as
    much as the nut replacement clamps.
    
    As a cheaper potential solution, (or the last resort, if you don't have
    fine tuners on the bridge) you might also consider replacing the nut
    with a graphite or other high tech slippery style material.  You can
    also get string trees made of the same stuff that might help.  I've
    never thought the roller string trees worked that well.
    
    Greg

    Brian,

    If you want my advice, stick to dry graphite. At the recommendation of
    of an "expert" in a magazine column, I used some teflon gun oil once and
    it deadened my strings faster that you can spit. I recommend using
    liquid lubricants only in places that don't contact the strings and
    using a dry graphite around string contact points. I use pencil lead on
    my old Strat and it works really well. Comes right back to pitch.

    I don't know what your setup is but my biggest problem was with the 6
    bridge plate mounting screws on old style Strat tremelos. I took out the
    middle 4 screws, used pencil lead in the nut grooves and string tree and
    it works great now.


    --Ron

    Big nooz in the whammy world. Al Anderson uses one on a track on the
    new NRBQ release. Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

    BTW, this record was mixed at Blue Jay in Carlisle, MA. Anyone ever
    worked there?