Conference 7.286::sports_91

    
    Re: -1
    
    I missed it.  What did the Hurricanes do yesterday?
    
    (If it's classless and juicy, I want to hear about it.)
    
    Dickstah
    

    Miami had 16 penalties for 202 yards while Texas had 205 yards in total
    offense.  Miami player Randall Hill was quoted as saying "This senior
    class is the last renegade class and we went out the way we wanted to,
    dancing and having fun."
    
    Sorry Miami, that's not football.  Good bye and good riddance.
    
    John

    It's o-fish-ul, da AP voted C.U. number 1.

    methinks it'd be da writers.

Boy, I'll bet Georgia Tech is pissed off.

Why didn't they win....lemme guess.  In the immortal words of T,
they probably played a gash schedule, right?

'saw

    Why should GT be #1?  CU was rated #1 going into the Orange Bowl, they
    beat a very good Notre Dame team and they should be rated #1 for doing
    so.
    
    Live from Charger Central.......Glenn

>    Why should GT be #1?  CU was rated #1 going into the Orange Bowl, they
>    beat a very good Notre Dame team and they should be rated #1 for doing
>    so.
    
  
 Because GT is undefeated CU is not. Because CU lost a game they won. Because
 Illinois the team that beat CU got pumpeled by Clemson who lost to GT. Say
 what you want about the ACC being weak but they sure looked good in the bowls
 against supposedly top-notch competition. Because CU's win against ND wasn't
 as impressive as GT's blowout of Nebraska....

 hard to believe undefeated team from a major conference is getting stiffed...

 
 How the Big Ten do? Big East was 2-0  ;^)

mike

I think CU should be #2 because GT has 0 loses. 

The game last night was a defensive struggle all the way. Zorich was ripping 
up the line of scrimmage and stuffing the middle all night. 
CU held Ismail from any big plays (except the punt return). 

10-9 great game. 

    Will you guys stop whinning.  CU was rated #1 BEFORE the Orange Bowl. 
    Why should they drop in the standings after beating ND?  They
    shouldn't.  
    
    I agree that GT looked great yesterday and had they been rated #1
    before that game then they too would have stayed #1.  But CU beat ND
    and did so without Hagan, McGhee and so on.  Childs, the Missouri game
    is old news.  Aren't you tired of beating that one yet? 
    
    CU #1 and that's that.
    
    Live from Charger Central.......Glenn

    
    Those of you that watched the Miami game...
    
    Did Erickson Leave the starters in the whole game or did he put in the
    2nd string after miami got a big lead ? 
    
    Metz who was burning up the slopes instead of vegtableising yesterday
    
    

    2nd stringers got some playing time, Metz.
    
    
    					Steve

    Erickson made sure the starters rubbed the Cotton Bowl astroturf in
    the Longhorns' faces.
    
    Hey Colorado fans - do some math!
    
    Georgia Tech = 0 losses
    Colorado = 1 loss, plus fifth down "win", plus alleged clip last night
    
    Which is more impressive?????
    
    Also, chew on this:  Illinois beats Colorado; Clemsuck humiliates
    Illinois; Georgia Tech beat Clemsuck.
    
    Any way you want to analyze it, Georgia Tech should be #1.
    Don't mean they're gonna get it, though.
    
    NAZZ

Glenn just cause it's old news doesn't mean it should be forgotten. Had they
got the L that they deserved for that one they wouldn't even be considered
in the top 5 let alone #1....

mike

    I love the sound of sour grapes.  I have not heard such crying and
    whining and sniffeling etc. etc. etc. since ND did not win the national
    championship last year!!!  Can you honestly name a team with a better 
    performance throughout the year against the TOUGHEST schedule in college 
    football?  Whine or cry all you want but CU is the National Champion.
    
    Frank Mendez

#1, #2, it doesn't matter to me.  As a Tech alumnus, I'm pretty darned proud of
the season Tech had this year.  I never thought they'd be competitive again. 
11-0-1 and #2?  I'll take it.  I have a feeling this won't be the last time 
Tech's in the running. It's awfully lonely being a Tech fan in Colorado,
though :-).

Pat

    re .20
    
    
    That sums up what college football should be all about. Your position
    on the number 1/2 thing is encouraging to those of us who like our team
    through it all. 8^). 
    
    

    
    	Well, there are good reasons for CU to be #1 and there are
    	good reasons for Tech to be #1.  
    
    Tech.:  Unbeaten(but did not win all of their games).  Put a whoopin'
    	    on a questionable Husker squad in their bowl.
    
    CU:  Toughest division 1A schedule in the nation.  They lost once
    	 and tied once.  They had a much higher chance of losing more
    	 games throughout the year than did Tech.  Beat a good Notre
    	 Dame team in the Orange Bowl.
    
    I don't really see the scale tipping in either team's favor.  I feel
    that the writers could not rank Tech. #1 due to CU being ranked #1
    going into their bowl.  CU won against a strong opponent and they
    could not drop them in the rankings (else they would have to admit
    being wrong ranking CU #1 in the first place).
    
    Now for my biased opinion:  CU should be #1 based on the tougher
    schedule.  If ya wanna talk about who beat who, CU beat a team that
    beat the 'canes who shellacked Texas.  That road is long and crooked.
    Not having the benefit of a head to head comparison, I always go with
    who had the stronger schedule.  
    
    5th down:  If CU had known it was really 3rd down, they would have
    passed.  If the pass is incomplete, the clock stops and they would
    still have run the ball from the same spot that they did on the "5th"
    down.  The only benefit they received from the extra down was that they
    stopped the clock an extra time(which would have occurred on an
    incomplete pass on the real 3rd down).  The only hole in this arguement
    is that a interception may have occurred.  Bottom line is, CU should
    not be held accountable for a mistake by the refs.
    
    The clip:  Gimme a break.  There was no "alleged" clip.  That was
    probably the best example of a clip I've ever seen on Rocket's
    return.
    
    Claybroon  

    WOW !!!   Somethin' like 12 + hours of college footaball ..... tiring
    but great.
    
    Colorado is #1 I hear ..... too bad.  They looked like anything but a
    #1 team last night ....... and the program has the same smell that
    UNLV does in hoop.
    
    Georgia Tech looked very strong.  Well coached and creative.  And I bet
    their players at least know where the classrooms are ......
    
    ND ....... they were 1 clip away from beating Colorado.  I'm not sure
    that the defender would have caught Ismail anyway ..... boy did he turn
    on the jets or what !!
    
    Miami ....... blahblahblah.  Their act has gotten very thin.
    
    Alabama ...... what the heck kindofateam showed up anyway.
    
    
    Greg

Amen Claywad!!

CU deserved the Mythical!
CU GOT the Mythical!

Anybody who feels differently has aligned themselves with the forces of
evil and ignorance (and if they keep it up they'll prolly go blind and
end up standing on a corner with a dozen #2 pencils clutched in their
hairy little palms).

The announcers commented several times yesterday that they wondered if
the overemphasis on the #1 slot contributed to lackluster play.

I wonder.... there is not a team who lost yesterday, who, on another day
couldn't have whipped the winner. Such lopsided scores seems real unsual.

Mike JN

    I wrote this up and posted it to Usenet this morning before I heard
    about the AP Poll.  I am convinced that the majority of the voters did
    not watch the Citrus or Orange Bowls yesterday.  CU did not play like
    the #1 team in the nation...
    
    
    
Looks like we have a perfect setup for a worse travesty than we had in 1984.
If the pollsters vote CU #1 this year then I hope this forces a playoff for
division 1.  In 1984 the pollsters gave the mythical to BYU because they were
the only undefeated team but this year GT is the only undefeated team and I
doubt they will get the mythical.  The pollsters say GT was untested but they
played and defeated at least 4 bowl teams.  The pollsters say the ACC is weak
but the ACC is the only conference with a winning bowl record(ACC 3-1-1,
SEC 2-2, Big 8 1-1, SWC 1-1, Big 10 2-4, Pac 10 2-3, WAC 2-2).  The pollsters
say CU played a tough schedule - CU beat Washington in Boulder by 6 but
Washington lost to UCLA in Seattle, CU beat Texas by 7 in Austin but Texas
lost by 43 to Miami in Dallas, CU lost by 1 to Illinois in Champaign but
Illinois lost to Clemson by 30 in Tampa,  CU beat Nebraska by 15 in Lincoln
but Nebraska lost to GT by 24 in Orlando, CU tied Tennessee but Tennessee lost
to Alabama in Knoxville and then Alabama lost by 27 to Louisville.  Let us also
not forget how CU got into a position to be #1.  I wonder what kind of budget
CU has for paying off officials in close games -- a fifth down TD and then a 
bogus clip call...  Oh well, I guess that is why they call it the "Mythical".
    

Although I'm not a big CU fan the clip in the Orange bowl was exactly that.
There should be no dispute about that call. The ND player clearly hit the CU
player in the back. Even his head was behind the CU player which is how the 
refs usually make that call.

I really don't care who wins the Mythical this year. I don't buy into any
"champeenship" that isn't decided by direct head to head competition. Of course
it'll never happen because the almighty $ rules.

Boycott the bowls.....


Metz

    
    	
    	Greg, would you mind elaborating on that *smells like UNLV* comment
    	you made?  There's nothing worse than dropping little bombs like 
    	that and not backing it up with F A C T S.  
    
    	I think us Buff fans will just sneak off somewhere with our
    	cheatass national championship and try to withstand the
    	barrage of jealousy-based comments.
    
    	We be #1.  Too bad some folks can't be as classy as the
    	Notre Dame players I saw interviewed last night.
    
    Claybroon  

           
    Forget the polls going in.  Forget the spate of lop-sided scores
    dotting the bowl landscape.  Colorado *is* and *should be* the number 
    one team in the land.  Let's not be confused and dissuaded by circular
    arguments of who beat who who then beat someone else, or the margins
    of victory yesterday, which in the college game is so much
    ornamentation anyway.  Colorado plays a man's game.  I don't think I
    saw a tougher defense this season.  Ten straight wins to finish off a
    season that saw them pitted against the toughest competition anyone 
    faced.  Five wins and a tie against the likes of Tennessee, Texas, 
    Washington, Oklahoma, Nebraska, and now Notre Dame.  So it wasn't
    pretty.  Football isn't supposed to be.  I salute Colorado and their
    exemplary display of the art of good old-fashioned smash-mouth
    football.   
    
    Georgia Tech also deserves congratulations.  I wasn't sure why the
    experts regarded them so lightly against a team, Nebraska, that anyone
    who saw them this year could plainly see couldn't stop the rush up the
    middle (a particular Tech strength) or the pass.  Still, I didn't see
    enough to convince me this is a better team than Colorado.  Tom Osborne 
    and Nebraska have made an annual event of getting crushed on New Years' 
    Day to provide someone with ammunition for a claim to the title (last 
    year Florida St., two years ago Miami...).   
    
    Did Miami pull their stunts in part to get the goat of their coach, who
    has tried his hardest to put a damper on their extracurricular 
    activities?  The end-of-game thing was obviously premeditated.  I 
    thought the funniest one, though, was when the game sportscaster was 
    saying how he'd had a long talk with Randal Hill about how concerned 
    he was over reports the pros didn't like his attitide.  So what does he
    do after scoring a touchdown?  Runs up the ramp and dances in the tunnel.
    Real classy, and really sincere, too.  (By the way, those were neutral 
    SEC officials who put the clamps on the Canes, and it looked as if the
    head referee was getting a kick out of doing it, too...).
    
    Conference winners and losers?  The ACC was a big winner, going 3-1-1
    in total in fairly evenly matched games, with Virginia barely giving up 
    the only loss against a Tennesee team who many (including me) thought 
    would run roughshod over their defense.  I thought the WAC gained a
    small measure of respect, even though their champ BYU was absolutely
    demolished by Texas A&M (who have come on strong and have to be 
    considered the SWC favorite for next year), with wins from longshots 
    Air Force and Colorado St, and a close loss by another big underdog 
    Wyoming to Cal.  And considering the overall quality of competition 
    in their games, the traditional big boys from the Big-10 (2-4) and
    Pac-10 (2-3) disappointed, to say the least (give Todd Marinovich the
    underachievement award for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory
    with his three INT's and fumble on the goal line against Michigan 
    State).  Only Michigan and Washington looked good, and Washington in 
    part because of Hayden Fry and all his inane trick plays (my favorite 
    was the pseudo-fake punt from a short drop formation which the 
    Washington defender practically blocked with his chest.  Brilliant...).
    
    With all the blow-outs, not one of the better bowl seasons, to be
    sure...
    
    glenn
    

    
    YES!!!!!!
    
    The Buffs are #1 and all the Crying and Wondering why why is all over.
    It's very simple For all you wanna be Champs Everyone Knew for Anyone
    to Win the Mythical Title at the end of Regular Season You have to be
    in the top 4 positions in the polls and The only way CU would lose it
    is if they lost. Which they DID NOT..HA 
    
    I must give credit to the ND players This was truly a Championship game
    good tough Defense. 
    
    >> re.28 " I wonder what kind of budget CU has for paying off officals
               in close games...a fifth down TD and then a Bogus clip call"
    
    I realize that some folks minds will never change no matter what you
    tell them and I guess this is what makes notes files what it is. In 
    reply to the above statement now that's SOUR GRAPES.
    
    CU Buffs are #1 and I Love it............I think the Miami Fans can 
    remember What it's like Getting over the Hump.....CU #1 CU #1 CU #1
    
    Say what you will But CU BUFFS ARE THE NCAA DIVISION I CHAMPS FOR THE	
    WHOLE YEAR OF 1991.
     
    
    " THE DREWSKI "
    

    UPI votes Georia Tech #1.
    
    Guess that's why they call it the mythical...

    I can't believe all the crying about the fact that the #1 team wins
    their bowl game against the #5 team and remains #1.  It's that simple.
    
    -Nobody has brought up the fact that GT beat a Nebraska team that was
     still reeling from 2 November losses.  Nebraska was aiming for the CU
     game for a year, and after that loss, they crawled over and died. 
     NU proceeded to get killed by their annual rival Oklahoma.  Plus, NU's 
     recent bowl history is bad: last year, a 41-17 loser to FSU, and 2
     years ago, a 23-3 loser to Miami.  NU was playing with very little
     heart, whereas GT was in the running for the national title.
    
    -This thing about CU losing to Illini, Clemson whipping Illini, and GT 
     beating Clemson doesn't sell.  If that's the case, I'll go
     schedule-checking tonight and find a team CU beat who beat someone who
     beat someone who beat someone who beat North Carolina who tied GT.
     Illinois is another team that had the wind taken out of its sails, due
     to its late-season disaster against Iowa.  
    
    -Another bad argument: CU barely beat Washington, but Washington lost
     to UCLA; CU tied UT, but UT lost to Bama who got smoked by Louisville,
     etc.  The problem with this one is that the other side of the coin has    
     not been examined.  Washington also bombed USC 31-0 and was very 
     impressive in the Rose Bowl.  Tennessee killed Florida 45-3.  Texas
     won at Penn State and beat Oklahoma.  CU also beat Stanford.  Didn't 
     Stanford beat a highly ranked team this year?
    
    -The schedules are CU's biggest argument for #1, but look how tough it 
     really was:  CU played 5 of the top 17 teams (according to USA Today)
     and went 4-0-1.  GT played only 1 top 20 team (Clemson) and they
     needed a last-second field goal to win it at home.  CU's bowl opponent
     was ranked 5th, while GT's opponent wasn't even close to the top 10
     going in to the bowls.
    
    -Notre Dame.  The bottom line is they have proven to be an amazing
     big-game team this year, and they always fight to the very end. 
     Last night, while the offense was plagued by turnovers, their defense
     kept them in the game.  Of course, you anti-CU people just say the 
     Buffs weren't good enough to capitalize.  And the Irish didn't look
     nearly as bad as Nebraska did.
    
    -CU played without 2 All-Big 8 performers in the 2nd half, Darian Hagan
     and Kanavis McGhee.  The Buffs may have been fired with Hagan out, but 
     they also may have lost some spirit and confidence.  Besides, Johnson
     has only started 1 game this year and played sparingly in others. 
     When a guy this inexperienced comes in to lead your offense in a game
     this big, it hurts.
    
    -Some of CU's victories may have been close, but GT had their close
     calls as well.  They beat UVA on a last-second field goal, they beat  
     Clemson on a last-second field goal, and they beat Virginia Tech on a 
     last second field goal.
    
    -Colorado DID win the game last night.  It may have only been a 1-point
     win, but a win is a win.
    
    -The clip on Rocket's return.  It was an obvious one.  Just because
     it's a big game, are the refs supposed to not throw flags or
     something?
    
    -In 1984, an undefeated BYU would not have won the national title had
     Oklahoma won the Orange Bowl over Washington in impressive fashion.
     How quickly we forget.
    
    -The 5th down.  Just see note .24.  That explains it for about the
     200th time.
    
    -Bottom Line: THE BUFFS ARE THE 1990 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS because AP sez
     so!
    
    
     Joe
    

    
    
    " UNIVERSITY OF COLORADO BUFFOLES NCAA FOOTBALL DIVISION I CHAMPS "
    
    
    
    

    ...unless you agree with the folks who voted Georgia Tech as champ in
    the other poll!
                                          Denny

    
    Well, I guess we can say Georgia Tech is the National Champions because
    the UPI says so.  I place more value on what the coaches think than
    what a bunch of sportswriters think.  Don't you?
    
    Something else about Colorado bothers me.  Why are they the CU
    Buffaloes if they are the University of Colorado?  Shouldn't they be
    the UC Buffaloes?
    

    
    > Well, I guess we can say Georgia Tech is the National Champions because
    > the UPI says so.  I place more value on what the coaches think than
    > what a bunch of sportswriters think.  Don't you?
    
    Absolutely not.  Believe it or not, I think there's more politicking
    and behind-the-scenes connections amongst the coaches and information
    directors than with the writers.  Let's face it, Bobby Ross has an
    excellent reputation with his peers and Bill McCartney a less than
    sterling one, especially after the Missouri game.  Also, these guys 
    see less games and are worried more about their own teams than 
    analyzing all the other teams over the course of a season.  How many 
    coaches on the field Tuesday saw tapes or synopses from *any* of 
    the games before they voted night before last, well after midnight?
    
    Needless to say, my opinion is that the coaches blew it, just like I
    thought they blew it in 1978 with Alabama/USC ('Bama was ranked #2 in
    both polls going into a supposed championship game with undefeated 
    Penn State, and won the game in a fantastic, hard-fought defensive
    struggle, but the coaches chose to remember, after the fact, an 
    early-season loss to USC).  But even though Tech squeaked out the UPI
    vote by a single point, and Colorado has apparently been voted #1 in
    all the other writers' polls, there's no denying that the championship
    in disputed and will remain a shared one.  Given the growing play-off 
    controversy, maybe that's for the best.
    
    I can't but think that if not for some bad coaching by McCartney in
    those final minutes Monday night, Colorado would have picked up that
    one UPI point.  The Buffaloes had sustained an impressive last drive
    on the ground against a tiring Irish defense all the way down to the 
    ND 30, and then McCartney decided for some reason to pass the ball 
    on second down (Bill Walsh in his best whiny voice: "What a strange 
    call!"), and eventually lost twenty yards in sacks in the process.  
    Not only did he forgo a likely field goal (which would have erased 
    any doubts about the Irish missed PAT and field goal), but to make 
    matters worse he took an additional delay of game penalty.  McCartney 
    seemed hell-bent on giving Ismail a chance to return a punt that never 
    should have happened in the first place, resulting in the controversy 
    and doubts, however slight, around the penalty on the runback.  It's 
    hindsight, and Colorado won the game against a very tough opponent 
    which was enough for me, but might have made the difference with a few 
    of the voters.
    
    glenn
    

    I agree with what one AP voter wrote on his ballot:
    
    	"None of the above."
    
    All in all, I've got to give the nod to Georgia Tech simply due to
    presidence.  If BYU can be #1 in 84, then GT is #1 this year by the
    same argument.  Otherwise, you have hypocricy...which the AP poll has
    proven since it chose Colorado.  At lease UPI is incorrectly
    consistent.
    
    	--dan'l

AP:      record       UPI:   Scripps Howard:   USA TODY:   National:   Jeff's 
Colorado 11-1-1  1475 846    649               1244        #1          4214
G Tech   11-0-1  1441 847    657               1237        #3          4182
Miami    10-2-0  1388 763    597               1172        #2          3920



It's simple really

>    Also, these guys 
>    see less games and are worried more about their own teams than 
>    analyzing all the other teams over the course of a season.  How many 
>    coaches on the field Tuesday saw tapes or synopses from *any* of 
>    the games before they voted night before last, well after midnight?
    
    I would also say the sportswriters have a better overall idea of who
    the best team in the nation is.  The only teams the coaches know much
    about is the 11 or 12 teams they have played each season.  
    
        
>    vote by a single point, and Colorado has apparently been voted #1 in
>    all the other writers' polls, there's no denying that the championship
>    in disputed and will remain a shared one.  Given the growing play-off 
>    controversy, maybe that's for the best.
    
    The New York Times picked Miami #1, but that is a computer poll.  In a
    way, I'm glad that UPI picked GT #1, so maybe this will be a real
    wakeup call to get the NCAA or whoever to get going on a playoff.  Even
    if it starts as something simple, like the top 2 teams after the bowls,
    it needs to start somewhere.  The NCAA basketball tournament was at one
    time secondary to the NIT, but look at it now.  The NCAA basketball
    tournament just signed this new deal for over $1 billion per year.  The
    total payoff of the bowls is probably in the neighborhood of $25 million
    per team I believe, so that would make the total payout about $50
    million.
     
>    The Buffaloes had sustained an impressive last drive
>    on the ground against a tiring Irish defense all the way down to the 
>    ND 30, and then McCartney decided for some reason to pass the ball 
>    on second down (Bill Walsh in his best whiny voice: "What a strange 
>    call!"), and eventually lost twenty yards in sacks in the process.  
    
    Can't agree with this more.  They're doing exactly what a championship
    team should be doing, and that is being able to play smashmouth
    football with a lead late in the game when the other team knows you're
    trying to kill the clock.  Why they went away from this on that last
    series of downs, I'll never know.  The ideal situation would have been 
    run out the clock and maybe take it in for another TD and Glenn's
    right, that would have made the difference in a few coaches' minds and
    probably a few more AP voters.  But the biggest factor is that it would
    eliminated the return by Rocket, which I think is the factor that cost
    CU a few votes in both polls.  That last series of downs tainted their
    great final drive, the win over ND, and the title in many minds.
    
    Joe
    

    
    	Congratulations to Ga. Tech for being selected #1 by the
    	coaches.  I'm glad they have been recognized for their
    	outstanding season.  I guess a split is better than nothing
    	(although I still feel CU is the better team).  Like others,
    	I feel this is for the best in the sense that maybe this
    	will prod the NCAA to move towards a playoff system.
    
    	I heard a rumor that Tom Osborne voted for Tech.  I'd love
    	to hear his reasons for this (if the rumor is true).  In
    	light of CU beating them in their own back yard with all of
    	their starters and Tech beating them with 4 (starter?) players
    	being suspended for their bowl game and their starting QB out,
    	I can't believe he'd vote for Tech.  Anybody have some more
    	info?
    
    	Claybroon

I've been reading the last few replies and I think I'll take this
debate out and have it bronzed, for it clearly shows one aspect
of "arguing" that is universal:  We can always find, or even make up
reasons, for that which we want to prove.

All the Colorado fans are decrying the UPI Poll for reasons varying
from coaches politics to not knowing enough football....

I think it's pretty humorous, because folks, it all has about as much
relavance to anything as how many angels can dance on the head of
a pin.....

It's pretty clear that with the mucked up mess college football has
become around New Year's Day, and how the money hungry bowl sponsors
are fighting so hard for teams that they manage to get a swan dive
team like Virginia in there, there really is no meaning attached
to any of this....

I've always felt a playoff system would put all of this in the
proper persective, and this year probably proves it -- although
I do agree with the argument that a mediocre team who has a hot day
can grab the champeenship from a stellar performer with year long
consistency.....

Oh well.....

'Saw

                                         
    >	I heard a rumor that Tom Osborne voted for Tech.  I'd love
    >	to hear his reasons for this (if the rumor is true).  In
    >	light of CU beating them in their own back yard with all of
    >	their starters and Tech beating them with 4 (starter?) players
    >	being suspended for their bowl game and their starting QB out,
    >	I can't believe he'd vote for Tech.  Anybody have some more
    >	info?
    
    After Bob Devaney openly petitioned Big-8 coaches to vote for Nebraska
    for #1 earlier this season (and what a joke that was) because he felt it
    would put money in the conference's pocket, this would be the ultimate 
    indignity.  But it's exactly this kind of conference/regional alignment 
    that bothers me with the coaches' poll.  The voting can actually have 
    financial ramifications back to the member schools.  I'm not saying 
    that biases don't exist with the writers, but they are supposed to be 
    objective professionals and don't have a direct interest in who wins 
    (for example, I saw a Miami beat writer on CNN last night explain why
    he couldn't in good conscience vote for Miami and went with Colorado).  
    At least technically, there's no conflict of interest...
    
    glenn
       

The following is from the Jan. 3 edition of USA Today:

			CU				GT

Opp. records		.604				.560

Record against teams
with winning records	5-1-1				6-0-1

Record against bowl
teams			4-1-1				5-0

Margin of victory
against bowl teams	4.6				13

    
    I think it can be seen from the above that CU's much "tougher" schedule
    is really not that much, if any, better than GT's.
    
    It is very interesting to look at the break-down of #1 votes in the AP
    Poll by region.  East CU 4 GT 4, Southeast CU 8 GT 7, Southwest CU 5 GT
    1 Miami 1  Midwest CU 12 GT 3 Far West CU 10 GT 5.  GT was very close
    in the East and SE but got blown away everywhere else.  This is
    probably because GT was only on National TV 2 times all year whereas CU
    lived there.  This seems to indicate that maybe the sportswriters don't
    keep up with stuff as much as some of you seem to believe...
    

    Coaches don't always know what's going on.  I have read that they very
    often delegate the poll to a Graduate Assistant or the school's Sports
    Information Director due to lack of time/lack of knowledge.
    
    I'll repeat a story I told in the previous conference.  Coach Mac
    Pherson was embarrassed at a post-season luncheon when he complimented
    the coach at Colby College for a great season when in reality Colby
    went 1-7.  Because of that, the next season he had a Graduate Assistant
    Coach start up a football pool among the staff.  No money was
    exchanged, its purposes were for bragging rights and so he would keep
    on top of what was going on in New England football.  If Mac was
    typical of college coaches, and I think he was, they get so focused on
    their teams and who they play they really don't have time to pay
    attention to much else.
    
    The polls are imperfect.  I don't think much of the knowledge that the
    media has.  From what I know about the coaches, they theoretically have
    more knowledge but don't in reality.  They have so many built in biases
    that they aren't worth getting excited about and should be taken with
    several grains of salt.
    
    John

 Some coaches let assistants/waterboys vote and some coaches have predjuice.

 Some writers vote for teams they never see or teams that they cover so they
 can get stories.

 neither system is infinitely better than the other. NCAA's is probably licking
 their greedy chops over this one$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 mike

    re .47
    
    	Could you put in exactly who the *bowl* teams that CU and
    	Tech played against.  I think that knowing who the actual
    	bowl teams were will shed a little light...........or just
    	further the rathole ;^)
    
    	Claybroon

>    Otherwise, you have hypocricy...which the AP poll has
>    proven since it chose Colorado.  At lease UPI is incorrectly
>    consistent.
   
    The UPI is incorrectly inconsistent by knocking the #1 team down a
    spot despite the fact that they won.
    
    Despite all the arguments I have made for the Buffs being #1, I must
    admit that GT has their fair share of arguments for the top spot, being
    the only major team without a loss.  Very seldom has everyone agreed on
    the nation's top team after the bowls.  1984 is always remembered because
    BYU didn't play any top competition.  In 1983, Miami won the title due to
    one play, a missed 2-point conversion.  In 1988, Miami lost the title due
    to a missed 2-point conversion.  But despite the fact that those titles
    and many others were won in very close games, the bottom line has been
    who won the key games and therefore won the mythicals.  That seems to
    be the point many people are missing here, even though it's happened
    many times before.  Under the present (and lousy) system, CU is the
    national champs according to AP, which is what most people will
    remember many years down the road.  But the asterisk is there, due
    mainly to the split polls.  
    
    I would honestly love to see GT and CU play and settle the issue.  GT
    deserves their shot at CU.  
    
    As for the AP vote, I believe Miami only got 39 first-place votes in
    last year's final poll, the same number CU got this year.  But I have 2
    questions: Does anybody remember how close the UPI vote was last year,
    and how big was CU's margin over GT in the final regular season UPI
    poll?
    
    
    Joe
    
 

    
    re .50
    
    I will give it a shot.
    
    CU - Tennessee, Texas, Illinois, Nebraska, Washington, ND
    
    GT - NC State, Virginia, Clemson, Maryland, Nebraska
    
    Of CU's opponents who were in bowls  Tennessee and Washington won their
    bowl games.
    
    Of GT's opponents who were in bowls  NC State and Clemson won their
    bowl games and Maryland tied.
    
    CU's other opponent with a winning record was Oklahoma.
    
    GT's other opponents with winning records were North Carolina and South
    Carolina.
    
    I am not sure if this furthers the rathole or actually adds anything.
    

    
    re .51
    
    CU had a 54 point edge in the final regular season UPI poll.
    

    
    Here were the AP/UPI votes as of December 3 (the final season polls) 
    and the final vote:
    
    AP December 3			AP Final
    
    1. Colorado (42)	1476		1. Colorado (39)	1475
    2. Ga Tech (16)	1397		2. Ga Tech (20)		1441
 
    UPI December 3			UPI Final
    
    1. Colorado (38)	 692		1. Ga Tech (30)		 847
    2. Ga Tech (7)	 638		2. Colorado (27)	 846
    
    
    If anything, it was the coaches who were inconsistent.  As you can see,
    some of them didn't even vote during the regular season, but many
    more changed their minds for the final vote.  Weighing the quality of
    opponent in the bowls versus the final scores of those games, that's
    something I'm not sure I understand.  The same results didn't change 
    many of the writers' votes.  Did the coaches only start thinking about
    it after the season ended?  
    
    As for comparing record versus bowl teams, I think you've got to
    consider that neither NC State nor Maryland came anywhere anyone's top
    25, and that non-bowl team Oklahoma finished #17 in the AP and was a
    team demonstratively better than common opponent Nebraska.  Colorado
    beat final AP #5, 6, 12, 17, 24, tied #8, and lost to #25.  Georgia
    Tech beat AP #9, 23, 24 and tied unranked North Carolina.  Sagarin's
    computer poll (which ranked Colorado and Georgia Tech 4th and 5th,
    respectively) rated Colorado's final schedule of opponents as the
    toughest of any ranked team (only Maryland's and Stanford's were 
    tougher).  I think the competition argument comes down strongly in 
    Colorado's favor.
    
    glenn
    

    In the final regular season poll, Colorado was ranked number 1 because
    "they were playing the best football in the country at that time."  By
    the same arguement, you'd have a lot of trouble convincing me that FSU
    is not deserving of #1 right now.
    
    The Blockbuster Bowl was an excellent game with excellent work by
    Raycom.  I truely believe the only game to top that one was the
    Cal/Wyoming game which went right down to the wire.  If you were
    watching the Rose or Fiesta, you blew it.
    
    And how about that Louisville team.  Mr. Schnellenberger is a football
    god.
    
    	--dan'l

The season is too short for a viable playoff format. 
Any `playoffs' which evolve will generate every bit as much (or More) 
controversey as the present system of determining a National Champ.

Mike JN

>The season is too short for a viable playoff format. 
>Any `playoffs' which evolve will generate every bit as much (or More) 


As much as I can recollect most of the teams had between 2-4 weeks off before 
the bowl games. They could use this time for a national playoff. 

And the NCAA had better not offer  up any excuses that the kids need time off 
to study for finals. 

I know most of the bowl teams head down to their respective areas a couple of 
weeks before the games. 

Lets face it. The whole thing is a scam. That's why they cal it the mythical.
Both teams had valid claims at the #1 spot.

BTW glen ....Who did Sangrin have ranked at #1 in his power rankings? The
Huskies ?


Metz

    Congratulations to the CU Buffs on their first-ever Championship.
    They earned it and deserved it, no doubt about that.  CU played a
    brutal schedule and came out on top.  Bravo!
    
    On a more downbeat note, it's a scandal that Tech was able to 
    end up with the #2 ranking.  Hmmm, let's review: They played and
    beat a #18 team, a_unranked but formerly ranked team, and a Nebraska
    team that staggered against every quality outfit it faced and this
    year was defnitely B-quality.  Oh, and they were tied a C-quality
    squad.
    
    Now that don't sound like National Championship mettle does it?
    
    MrT

    1.  CU Buffs
    2.  Miami
    3.  Michigan
    4.  Notre Dame
    5.  Florida State
    6.  Washington
    7.  Penn State
    8.  Georgia Tech
    9.  Michigan State
    10. Syracuse

What scandal? Oh you mean, you disagree with the results. Talk to the
coaches.

But, we should all remember that whenever voting is involved, the best
team does not always win, only the most popular. Maybe the coaches like
Bobby Ross better than McCartney.

FWIW, the final Sagarin ratings:

	Miami-Fl	99.08
	Washington	95.84
	Florida St	95.70
	Colorado	93.96
	Georgia Tech	93.83

TTom

> As much as I can recollect most of the teams had between 2-4 weeks off before 
> the bowl games. They could use this time for a national playoff. 

    Not only did most bowl teams have 2 or 3 weeks off, but also the
    regular season could be adjusted such that everyone finishes their
    games the same date.  Many college teams finished their regular seasons
    on Nov. 17th, but there still a few games on Dec. 1 and the Army-Navy
    game even got pushed back to Dec. 8th.  The tournament could start on
    the last or even next-to-last Saturday of November.
    
    RE: About the controversies still existing.
    Agreed, there would be teams on "on the bubble" who wouldn't make it in
    and others would be complaining about bad seeds, which exists in the
    basketball tourney.  But this would last a few days after the brackets
    are announced and that would be it, on with the games.  The point is that
    a team would need to beat 2, 3, or 4 top-notch teams to win it all, the
    pretenders would be separated from the contenders, and most of all, it
    would be decided on the field.  And the real object of football would
    be of utmost importance, which is to win, no matter by how much or how
    it was accomplished.
    
    Joe

    Here is my plan for a National playoff system for college football.
    I'm sure it's foolproof!  ;-)
    
    1) No college football games before the first Saturday in September.
    
    2) Except for the two teams in the pre-season do-hickey bowl, no team
       can play more than 10 regular season games.
    
    3) Sixteen teams make the playoffs.  Eight conference winners get
       byes (Big East, Big 10, Big 8, ACC, SEC, SWC, WAC, PAC 10).  They
       play their first round games as bowl sites that correspond closely
       to their conference affiliation (in effect, giving them a home game
       for the first round):
    
    	Big East - Blockbuster Bowl, Miami
    	ACC - Peach Bowl, Atlanta
    	SEC - Independence Bowl, Shreveport, LA
    	WAC - Holiday Bowl, San Diego
    	Pac 10 - Copper Bowl, Tuscon
    	SWC - Sun Bowl, El Paso
    	Big 8 - Whatever leftover bowl is close to them - Freedom
    	        All-American, hall of Fame, Liberty
    	Big 10 - Move a minor bowl into either the Metrodome in
    		 Minneapolis or the Silverdome in Michigan
    
    Then you choose eight at-large teams.  No more than two at-large
    teams can come from the same conference.
    
    Then you use the NY Times Poll to rank the home teams 1-8 and the
    at-large teams 1-8.  The #1 home team plays the #8 at large team,
    the #2 home team plays the #7 at large team, and so on.  These games,
    BTW, take place the Saturday before Christmas, unless Christmas was
    on a Sunday, then it would be the Saturday before that.
    
    Then, on New Years Day, you have the quarterfinals.  The remaining
    teams are reseeded 1-8 and placed in brackets.  #1 plays #8, #2 plays
    #7, #3 plays #6, and #4 plays #5.  The sites for the quarterfinals,
    semifinals, and finals would be rotated annually among seven Bowls:
    Citrus, Cotton, Fiesta, Gator, Orange, Rose, and Sugar.  The Second
    Saturday of January you would have the semifinals.  The Saturday before
    the Super Bowl Would be the finals, or the Super Bowl of College
    Football (SBCF - tm).
    
    Any questions?
    
    NAZZ

    Sounds perfect.  In fact it probably makes TOO much sense and therefore
    will never be seriously considered.
    
    MrT

    
    What happened to all those traditions!
    
    True confessions - my Dad went to U of Mich and was a cheerleader
    there in the '40's.  The only football he ever watches is the Rose
    Bowl.  I'm another Big 10 alum.  *The only* sports event that we
    talk about/watch together is the Rose Bowl.  
    
    I'm sure there are Pac-10 supporters who feel the same way.  College
    ball predates the pro game (how many years has the Army/Navy game
    been the highlight of the military's sports calendar?  100 some odd?)
    and the traditions are a *huge* part of what keeps filling up the
    stands year after year, even when the favored team is el stinko.
    
    Personally, I'd like to see each of the bowl games feature the champs
    of at least one, and preferably two, conferences.  Indies take their
    lumps - they get all the revenue from their regular season, rather
    than having to share it with the rest of a league anyway.  :-P
    
    A&W

                                                          The point is that
>>    a team would need to beat 2, 3, or 4 top-notch teams to win it all, the
>>    pretenders would be separated from the contenders, and most of all, it
>>    would be decided on the field.  And the real object of football would
>>    be of utmost importance, which is to win, no matter by how much or how
>>    it was accomplished.
    
    Joe,
 
       Some food for thought. What would happen to the regular season
       schedules.  I can see it now. All the football factorys will pad
       there schedule to insure an invite to the playoffs. Hey if the
       playoffs are going to require a team to beat multiple top-notch
       teams no sense in risking losing the invitation. So the top 10 
       teams in the nation will be undefeated going into the playoffs.

       I say leave the the system the way it is. Just make the bowls wait
       until Dec 1st to issue invitations. Maybe GT would have had a chance
       to play a better team than Nebraska (Colorado, Miami, ND or Washingtion)

       Any team that can beat ND in a Bowl game deserves to be #1.
       
    Chuck

    If my scheme were in effect this season, this is how it would have
    worked out:
    
    Home Teams ratings before     	At-large teams ratings
    bowls for seeding purposes: 	for seeding purposes:
    
    1) Colorado - Big 8                 1) Florida State - Ind.
    2) Georgia Tech - ACC		2) Notre Dame - Ind.
    3) Miami - Big East			3) Penn State - Ind.
    4) Texas - SWC        		4) Michigan - Big 10
    5) Washington - Pac 10  		5) Clemson - ACC
    6) Tennessee - SEC 			6) Nebraska - Big 8
    7) Iowa - Big 10     		7) Louisville - Ind.
    8) BYU - WAC         		8) Texas A&M - SWC
    
    First round:
    
    Big 8 Bowl? - Colorado (#1) vs Texas A&M (#8)
    Peach Bowl - Georgia Tech (#2) vs Louisville (#7)
    Blockbuster Bowl - Miami (#3) vs Nebraska (#6)
    Sun Bowl - Texas (#4) vs Clemson (#5)
    Copper Bowl - Washington (#5) vs Michigan (#4)
    Independence Bowl - Tennessee (#6) vs Penn State (#3)
    Dome Bowl - Iowa (#7) vs Notre Dame (#2)
    Holiday Bowl - BYU (#8) vs Florida State (#1)
    
    Most of these match-ups are far better than what the Bowls got
    this year working under their archaic system.  IT'S TIME FOR CHANGE!!!

    Should conference winners be automatically in the playoffs?  I know
    that's the way basketball does it, but they play many more games, and
    allow many more teams.  And part of the problem with college football
    is the schedule strength disparity.  Does free passes for conference
    winners address that adequately?
    
    There will be controversy for choosing the 16 teams, of that there is
    no doubt.  I would say at most 2 teams from any single conference
    should be allowed with no automatic entries.  This also gives a fair
    shake to independants.
    
    Dan

    
    RE.66
    
    Good point Chuck. When was the last time ND lost a Bowl game?
    
    
    
    " THE DREWSKI "
    
    

    
    	I'd expand the field to 32 teams.  This only adds one week to
    	the *perfect* plan and any team ranked 33rd that didn't make
    	it to the field of 32 probably wasn't going to win it all
    	anyway.
    
    	Claybroon

    ND lost to Texas A&M in the Cotton Bowl on Jan.1,1988,Tim Brown's
    senior year.
    I also believe they lost the year before to SMU in the Aloha Bowl(could
    be mistaken on that one.)
    
    

    Division I-AA, Division II, and Division III all have football
    playoffs.   They each invite 16 teams made up of some number of
    automatic conference champions and the remainder at large.
    
    Four weeks later, somebody goes home happy.   No muss, no fuss, no
    drips, no stains.  Neat and tidy.
    
    And if you don't like 16 teams, add one week and make it 32.
    
    Tis time ...
    
    Bob Hunt

    Does anyone out there have a listing of everywhere that Lou Holtz has
    coached, College and Pro??????
    
    If so could you enter it in here!!!
    Sort of need the info to settle an argument.
    
    
    Thanks in advance
    
    JaKe
    

    
       It ain't a full list and it's in no particular order, but
    it's a start...
    
    Arkansas
    Minnesota (NCAA, not Pro)
    N.Y. Jets
    N.D. (but you knew that one)
    
    Bull~

       College:
       William & Mary ???
       Arkansas
       Minnesota
       ND

       NFL:
       Jets

Holtz was also at NC State. He also was an assistant coach at South
Carolina.

TTom

    Thanks Guys.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    re .30
    
    Well Claybroon ..... when I think of collegiate programs that are
    dirtier than you-know-what, but haven't been found out yet, I think of
    Colorado in football and UNLV in hoop.
    
    I don't have anything factual to back up this feeling, except the
    antics of CU football players in/around Colorado over the past
    several years ....... haven't close to a dozen been arrested and 
    accused of crimes ranging from B&E to rape ?
    
    And Coach McCarthy just *looks* like he's trying to hide something.
    
    No facts, just a personal position.  But justice has been served
    thanks to the enlightened voters of UPI.
    
    Greg

    
      Holtz also coached at NC State.
     
>       Some food for thought. What would happen to the regular season
>       schedules.  I can see it now. All the football factorys will pad
>       there schedule to insure an invite to the playoffs. Hey if the
>       playoffs are going to require a team to beat multiple top-notch
>       teams no sense in risking losing the invitation. So the top 10 
>       teams in the nation will be undefeated going into the playoffs.

    There really can't be much padding, because most teams are in
    conferences and have 70-80% of their schedule intact.  How can someone
    like a Michigan pad their schedule when they have to play the likes of
    Ohio State, Iowa, Penn State, Michigan State, and so on?  I think the
    problems will come in this kind of situation: In basketball, does the
    committee take a lower-division 17-12 team from a big-time conference
    who has played top notch competition night-in and night-out, or do they
    take a New Mexico with 24 wins against weak competition.  Let's face
    it, the WAC is no Big-10 or Big East.  In other words, the majority of
    arguments would come from bubble teams who don't make it in.
    
    As for your system NAZZ, it sounds very good.  That's the basic idea of
    what they need to do; use the current bowls, rotate the 4 or 5 majors
    as a championship site, take the 8 major conference champs, and I think
    16 teams is the perfect number.
    
>       I say leave the the system the way it is. Just make the bowls wait
>       until Dec 1st to issue invitations. Maybe GT would have had a chance
>       to play a better team than Nebraska (Colorado, Miami, ND or Washingtion)

    Waiting might solve some of the debate, but would it really have this
    year?  Don't forget, Miami was ranked 2nd before their narrow victory
    over SDSU, so GT still may have been left out of a championship game.
    But IMO the biggest advantage a playoff would provide is that it would
    give some very deserving teams their shot at the title, who otherwise
    had no shot coming into the bowls.  A good example is Michigan.  They
    lost 3 very close games playing a very tough schedule, and have
    certainly played top notch football this year and deserve their shot in
    a playoff.
    
    Joe

    
    	You're the one, Greg, calling CU's program dirty.  You tell
    	me how many and what charges.  Off the top of my head, I 
    	can't remember anybody being accused/convicted of rape.  I
    	do believe the late Sal Aunese had a few brushes with the law.
    	Maybe there's your B&E example.  I also believe Aunese and
    	one or two others were involved in fisticuffs in nightclubs
    	in Boulder.  I think these players may have made bad choices by
    	putting themselves in an environment which would lead to problems.
    	You see, the atmosphere in Boulder has, at times, not been
    	favorable towards minority athletes.  I'd have to dig up specific
    	examples but the problem existed in the past.  I haven't heard
    	of any incidents of this kind in quite a while.  Maybe the players
    	finally wised up and realized that those people were just trying
    	to bring them down a notch. 
    
	Since when does a civil matter, such as these, make a program
    	*dirty*?  I realize that players get disciplined by the coach
    	in these cases, but, are NCAA rules being violated?  I don't
    	think so.
    
    	I fail to see how you equate the UPI ranking Tech. #1 serves
    	some kind of justice for your nonfactual allegations of CU
    	being dirty.
    
    	Claybroon

    
>    I don't have anything factual to back up this feeling, except the
>    antics of CU football players in/around Colorado over the past
>    several years ....... haven't close to a dozen been arrested and 
>    accused of crimes ranging from B&E to rape ?
    
    Greg, there were a number of arrests, most of which occured in '87 and
    '88.  Two years ago this spring, Sports Illustrated came out with their
    article criticizing the CU program, and calling it an "Oklahoma waiting
    to happen."  The CU players and staff were very upset by the article,
    and during the '89 season the CU players organized their own patrol,
    checking up on each other and making sure nobody was getting into
    trouble or breaking the law.  During these last 2 seasons, there have
    only been a few minor incidents, and McCartney has reprimanded the
    players every time.  Defensive back Deon Figures was suspended for the
    entire '89 season, for what I can't remember.  Hemingway reportedly had
    a minor incident in Miami before last year's Orange Bowl, and
    McCartney sent him home.  Bieniemy had his run-in with the fire
    department this past summer and was suspended for the Tennessee game. 
    A defensive back (don't know his name, but he played in many nickel
    situations) was sent home from this year's Orange Bowl because
    McCartney found out he had a DUI a couple months ago.  McCartney simply
    won't tolerate his players getting in trouble with the law, and he's
    obviously not afraid to suspend key players.
    
    If you want to pick on a football program for their recent wrongdoings,
    look toward SMU, Oklahoma, or Oklahoma State, where the NCAA actually
    has some evidence against them, instead of just your feeling, Greg.
    CU is not on probation or even under investigation, and calling them
    the UNLV of football is very unfair.
    
    Joe
    
    

  My, my, my, After not being able to access this conference for a
  couple of days and reading the last 79 notes of CU/GT bashing, I'd like
  to say:

  Congradulation's GT on a terrific season. You've proven yourself week
  after week by playing tough under pressure, making big comebacks and 
  winning the big games you've played in. Your quarterback looked awesome 
  in your last game against Nebraska. And regardless of what many people say,
  Nebraska was a quality opponent. You have the nations longest unbeaten steek. 
  You haven't lost a game all year. With the way college football is set up, 
  there are many good arguments for you to be ranked #1 and claim the national 
  championship.

  Congradulation's CU on a terrific season. Without question you played one of
  the toughest schedules in the nation. You've proven yourself week after
  week by playing tough under pressure, overcoming adversity, making big 
  comebacks in the second half and winning the big games you've played in. You 
  have the nations longest winning streek. It wasn't your fault that the refs
  screwed up in the Missouri game. You beat a quality opponent, Notre Dame, 
  in the Orange Bowl without your starting quarterback and your second 
  best defensive player and with your best big play man playing with a broken 
  hand. And regardless of what some people say, Notre Dame did not play dead 
  in the Orange Bowl but rather your defense made many big plays. With the 
  way college football is set up, there are many good arguments for you to 
  be ranked #1 and claim the national championship.

  To conclude, I think we should all stop bashing the 2 most successful teams
  in the country. After all, it's not their fault, the NCAA doesn't have the 
  guts to come up with a fair way to crown a national champion. Let's give
  them both credit where credit is due.

  						Keith

  I just like to update everyone on some CU news. CU quarterback, Darian 
  Hagan, had surgery on his ruptured tendon in his knee last night. I don't
  know how the surgery turned out but before the surgery, the doctors's felt
  that Hagan would be wise to not play next year if ever again. He is in for
  a long rehabilitation.

  Junior backup quaterback, Charles Johnson, will not play football next
  year. He is the quarterback who lead the team 88 yards in the final 2 minutes
  for the notorious 5th down winning touchdown against Missouri. He was
  also the Orange bowl MVP for CU. He feels that he can get a law school 
  scholarship and that it is in his best interest to concentrate on his
  education and not football. He comes from a poverty/crime ridden 
  neighborhood of Detroit. He has been the legal guardian of his younger 
  brother while going to school in Boulder since his parents felt that he
  would be less likely to get in trouble growing up in Boulder than the
  mean streets of Detroit.

  					Keith

    
    Re:  .82
    
    Now that was the best note I've read on this subject thus far, Keith.
    
    Dickstah
    

Re: .72

If I can throw my $.02 in here for Div. III playoffs...

My wife and I have had a deal going for the last 5-6 years. Me, being an alumni
of Ohio State, cart her up I-71 to Columbus for an OSU giga-awesome-spectacle 
football game played by mutant stero-androids before 90,000 screaming,
lets-see-how-many-ways-we-can-wear-scarlet-and-grey, foaming-at-the-mouth fans 
at Ohio Stadium (obviously Div. I).

She, being an alumni of the University of Dayton (Div. III) drags my whining 
rear up I-75 to Welcome Stadium to see a UD game played by real,
non-scholarship, relatively normal sized humans before about 5,000 fans, mostly
parents and students having a good, somewhat-rowdy time.

Guess which one is more fun? Guess which one was more interesting?

UD made it into the Div. III playoffs this year. We went to the first playoff
game (UD got beat in the second round). It's been a looooong time since I've
seen a college game played with such excitement, verve, and yes, skill. The
players may not have the same size or speed as Div. I, but they do hit hard,
compete hard, and *are* good, skilled athetes. If you ever get a chance to see 
one of these  games, do it.

BTW, I've been going to at least 2-5 OSU games a year since graduating from
there in 1974, so I've got (somewhat) a frame of reference.

Bruce

    Bruce,
    	I'll be looking for tix from you($) when ND travels to Columbus
    to play the Buckeyes in either '95 or '96,God and KO willing.
    
    
    MikeL
    

                       
  > Junior backup quaterback, Charles Johnson, will not play football next
  > year. He is the quarterback who lead the team 88 yards in the final 2 
  > minutes for the notorious 5th down winning touchdown against Missouri. 
  > He was also the Orange bowl MVP for CU. He feels that he can get a law school 
  > scholarship and that it is in his best interest to concentrate on his
  > education and not football.
    
    This may be the most refreshing story I've heard all season.  No
    student-athlete fraud, no phony degree, just a kid who was given a
    chance (and a national championship hero to boot) putting his 
    priorities in place.  Charles Johnson, not whoever becomes the number 
    one draft pick, should be a hero to kids across the country.  Three 
    cheers for Charles Johnson!
    
    glenn
     

    Well, for my 2 cents...
    
    I think Tech deserves to be #1.  They beat who they had to, the were
    more impressive over NU than Colorado was.  Colorado had a win that
    was really a loss.  

    FWIW,
    
    The refs in the Miami/Texas game were from the SEC, not the SWC.

    HAwk, I don't feel sorry for the Texas players. AT ALL.
    
    I was in Houston for two weeks, including the week before the game, and
    more than a few UT players went public with their pre-game "predictions"
    of a Longhorn blowout. Apprantly, they thought that the Miami that
    barely squeaked by San Diego St. was the real Miami. Ha .....
    
    UT talked plenty of trash, and Miami shoved it straight down their
    throats. Good for Miami. 
    
    It is a shame that Miami gets blashed after a season of walking the
    straight and narrow (for them), but it certainly was NOT one-sided. Not
    at all.
    
    DrM

    Well Doc, from what I saw around Austin (home of the Longhorns) what
    you saw/heard was the exception rather than the rule.  Unfortunately
    what Miami displayed was a throwback to the stuff they have been
    criticized for over and over again.

    The same can be said for Miami Mac. Most of the "party people" are
    seniors, and then only a minority. As for the celebrations, BFD. Hell,
    these are COLLEGE kids. If any of us was out there, I'd like to see how
    many of us would want to put on a cool demenanor.
    
    The guy who cracked me up most was the reciever who pulled a Bo Jackson
    and ran into a tunnel to do his thang, since the trigger happy ref was
    so intent on throwing a flag and putting him in his place. I loved it,
    ever second of it.
    
    BTW, why did this get sooooo much flak, while Ickey Woods gets applause
    for doing his Shuffle over at the bench ? Not much difference if you
    ask me .....
    
    DrM

    Doc, I think the hubbub is more over the large number of personal fouls
    on Miami that weren't related to celebrating a sack or a TD.

DrM,

    Doc, Randall Hill is the WR who ran in the tunnel and did his thang.
    He is by far the biggest dancer. He dances when he throws a good 
    down field block. My feeling is that when Miami starts to dance and
    show boat they feed off it and just play better. If UT was talking
    trash before the game or not, it doesn't matter. The senior class
    really the last class that also played for Jimmy Johnson was going
    to ham it up in there last game. With the game being a blow out the
    conditions where just right. Some how I don't think 'Cane football
    is going to me much fun for me now

    Hill is a piece of work, but the guy is a player too.


Chuck

                                
    Face it, Doc, you're not going to put a good face on this one.  It *was*
    a disgrace.  The Miami papers referred to the 'Canes as "National
    Chumps", and Dennis Erickson, Sam Jankovich *and* university President
    Foote were all quoted as saying they were highly embarrassed.  Texas
    (well, mainly offensive lineman Stan Thomas) did a lot of trash talking 
    beforehand and was humbled, but it was Miami that took it on the field 
    to the tune of 200+ yards in penalties...
    
    glenn
     

    Syracuse University names assistant Paul Pasqualoni head football coach
    yesterday.  Pasqualoni, was the Orangemen's Linebacker coach.  He is 41
    years old, and has previously coached at Western Connecticut State
    where he had a 34-17 record.
    
    - Ken -
    

    	Hey Doc, Ickey is a much better dancer than any of those Maimi
    players.
    
    				/Don

I think an excellent message would be sent if in the NFL Draft, the
Miami Hotdogs/Jerks/DancingDorks were to drop significantly in the
rankings come draft day.

This is not as unlikely an event as you might at first suppose. Almost
every team in the league has had problems with their players having
police trouble....  including the Broncos (maybe ESPECIALLY the
Broncos).

It's not impossible that a team make a decision that their problems
might be lessened if they refrained from drafting jerks. I know last
year, the Donks opted for Steve Atwater over Louis Oliver, and the
stated reason was `doubts about his (Oliver's) attitude'.

A `money' message generally gets across very quickly.

Mike JN (SIDJNOTY)

    Rumor has it that the Rocket will opt to enter the NFL draft this year. 
    Anyone hear anymore?

    re .99
    
    I'm opposed to that. Many of the "Bad attitude" raps I've seen players
    stuck with come damned close to defamation of character.
    
    Witness Louis Oilver, who allegedly had a drug problem and/or bad
    attitude. He dropped a ton in the draft, but has been a great player
    for the Fish.
    
    Now tell me Mike, was that worth it ? 
    
    And I also have seen this BA crap break down over color lines. 
    While you see an occasional Dwayn Schnit-whatever-his-name with
    the Spurs, or a Todd Marinovich), a black player can come up with a
    "head case" rap in a second - and it will stick. 
    
    And ask yourself this - what is truly more detrimental to a team, a
    player who has a big mouth, or one with a big nose (as in coke habit) ?

>  I believe that if Miami was on
>    the receiving end of the shellacing, we'd still not know about how
>    well Texas players can dance........
    
 
    Hawk, watching those hee-haws doing the "Cotton Eyed Joe" in street
    clothes is NOT a pretty sight. Do you really want to see square dancing
    in football uniforms ?
    
    :-)
    
    Doc

    The National reported the Rocket's coming out...

      I didn't really have time to read a whole lot of replies,
      but I liked Georgia Tech for Number 1 and (as usual) I
      felt the best team was Miami.  (But watch out for Washington
      next year if the QB improves!)
    
      Has anyone mentioned Virginia and the fact Tech beat them?
    
      Tennessee did not have a great record, but I thought they
      were awful good and Virginia (with a MUCH less than healthy
      Moore at QB) gave them a really good game.  Man, Moore couldn't
      even throw the ball.
    
      Georgia Tech beat a Virginia team on a complete roll with a 
      completely healthy Moore.  This was the #1 team.  I really think
      this accomplishment gets not enough attention.  That Virginia
      team with a healthy Moore was a good team.  Look at what a hurt
      Moore team did to Tennessee.
    
      I don't factor in that 5th down stuff.  I would have, but I read
      that Colorado purposely threw the football on the ground for
      one of the plays AFTER the down error was made.
    
      Georgia Tech went in and blew Nebraska out.  They beat a healthy
      Virginia team.  They didn't lose.
    
                                               Tony
                                  
      

    Anybody have the Miami vs Texas Cotton Bowl game on tape. If you do
    send me mail I would like to make a copy of it for myself.

Chuck

    Georgia Tech has a better fight song than Colorado.
    
    Rich
    

    The Japan Bowl was played Saturday night, and a few players undoubtedly
    helped themselves in the eyes of the NFL scouts.  Pritchard (WR, Colo)
    had 6 catches for 100 yards and was the MVP.  Ricky Watters (TB, ND)
    ran very well, and also looked good returning both punts and kickoffs.
    
    Other players who I thought looked good:
    
    Bill Musgrave-QB, Oregon
    Lawrence Dawsey-WR, FSU
    Nick Bell-FB, Iowa
    Kenny Walker-DE, Nebraska
    Huey Richardson-LB, Florida
    
    Joe

    Tenneesee has the best uniforms - SO THERE !

Then on that basis, Dock, I've got to go with Wesleyan 8^)

    Speaking of Wesleyan, where is JD?
    
    I miss the scores 8*(
    
    kev
    

>>    Speaking of Wesleyan, where is JD?
>>    -< still in Oz? >-

Yep.  He's due back tomorrow, I believe.

    Tennesee's uniforms need more contrast...

    You got a point Walt, but UCLA and Miami are great.
    
    Michigan and Michigan States ? Burn em !!!!

    I never liked Orange and Green as a color scheme and Powder Blue
    for a football team is for wimps....
    
    MSU is ok except for the one side without an S.  Michigan's are
    distinctive, if nothing else...

    UCLA wins Rose Bowls with that 'wimpy color scheme. How many has
    Michigan and MSU won ?
    
    Michigan's uniforms are ugly, if nothing else (which is that case).
    
    As for MSU, don't forget that the coach is an ex-Steeler, and decided
    to be cheap also, and only stick one logo on the helmet....

    Yeah, yeah, I seem to remember that UCLA has lost the U of M in the
    regular season the last 2 years.  When was the last time UCLA made
    it to the Rose Bowl, let alone win?  I don't have Rose Bowl history
    in my back pocket...

    Walt, the PAC-10 roooooleesssss the Rose Bowl ... no need to depress
    yourself by looking for facks .... :-)

    Yeah, yeah, whatever... didn't U of M beat USC last year?  If you're
    going to yank, you should start with your own pal...

    RB Chuck Webb of Tennessee and WR Herman Moore have announced they will
    skip their senior seasons and enter this year's draft.
    
    Joe                                                          

    
    The Rocket Ishmail has a press conference scheduled for tommorrow
    morning to announce if he is going to turn pro. Rumor has it he will
    elect to enter the NFL draft.
    
    Dennis
    

    Well?  Did they send Andrew Kent to cover it?
    
    "Look, there goes another Patriot, let's go...."

    Curvin Richards has left the Pitt campus after Paul Hackett suspended
    him for "violating team rules."  Rumor has it he wasn't going to class. 
    Gee, you mean Pitt is actually forcing their athletes to finally attend
    classes?  
    
    Good for Paul who said, "We are determined to put together a program
    that has a balance between academics and athletics, and it cannot be
    based on who the person is or how much talent the person has." 
    Richards is second only to Dorsett in career rushing yards at Pitt.
    
    Richards will probably enter the NFL draft.  He's damaged goods, but
    I'd still put him in the list of top 10 picks.
    
    	--dan'l

    This appeared in Playboy several months back when they had the best of
    Letterman's Top 10 Lists.  I meant to post it then but forgot.  It came
    to me over the network entitled 'Top Ten Courses for Athletes at North
    Carolina State.'  Sorry, TTom.  Here it is with the original title,
    best as I can remember:

Top Ten Courses For SMU Football Players
----------------------------------------

10. Subtraction:  Addition's Tricky Pal

 9. The First Thirty Pages of _A Tale of Two Cities_:
    Foundation of a Classic

 8. Sandwich-Making (Final Project Required)

 7. Alumni-Owned Hotels, Restaurants, and Used Car Dealerships:
    The Interlocking Economy

 6. Pre-Law Seminar:  Age of Consent in the 50 States

 5. The Denny's Midnight Menu:  Recent Discoveries

 4. The Bunny and the Wolf:  Hand Shadow Workshop

 3. Draw "Winky"

 2. Marine Psychology:  Why Otters Swim Naked

 1. The Poetry of Hank Stram

    Funny, I saw it as being the top ten courses at Pitt. :):)  
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

    I just read an interesting tidbit:  the width of the goalposts in
    college will go from 23 feet, 4 inches to the NFL width of 18 feet, 
    6 inches next season.  

    
    Well roll me in oil and call me crude, I didn't know there was a
    difference in college/pro goal posts.
    
    Now I'd like to see the pros go with the two-point conversion option,
    but I don't think the bookies would ever let it fly.
    
    Dickstah
    

    When are they going to change all those goal posts?  Maybe it's not too
    late to go into the goal post business.
    
    	--dan'l

    
    > I just read an interesting tidbit:  the width of the goalposts in
    > college will go from 23 feet, 4 inches to the NFL width of 18 feet, 
    > 6 inches next season.  
    
    Assuming they don't move the hash marks (option offenses depend on a
    wide-open field), this will make some of those real short kicks a
    challenge.  I like it, though.  Now that the colleges have removed the
    tee and have narrowed the goalposts, the field goal isn't so cheap 
    in the college game as it once was...
    
    glenn

    "Goal Post" - Reminds me of my Navy days, "Roadguards Post".
    
    Lee

    
    Ya gotta respect lEe.  He used to man the mizzenmast on Old Ironsides.
    8^)
    
    Dickstah
    

    lEe,
    	I don't know ya,but someone said it was the Ark!
    

Never mind the Ark.

lEe was the captain of Adam's first raft....

8^)

'Saw
    

    Ahhh, those were the days.  Just waitin for a strong breeze to ruffle
    those fig leafs that Eve wore!  Of course, she was always very busy,
    passing out apples and such.  I kinda liked it when she had to reach
    way down in the barrel for the last ones, ya know?  :*)
    
    lEe

    Yesterday was letter-of-intent day, and the consensus winners were Penn
    St, Florida St, and Michigan.  FSU signed 3 players from the state of
    Florida, all of which was rated as the best in the nation at his
    position by SuperPrep.  Michigan signed a highly-rated QB and 4 of
    SuperPrep's top 20 defensive linemen.  Penn State signed SuperPrep's
    2nd rated receiver, 2 of the top 10 running backs, and 3 of the top 10
    offensive line prospects.
    
    Notre Dame's class wasn't rated among the nation's elite, and they were
    supposedly hurt by tougher academic standards, speculation that Holtz
    might leave and the loss of several assistants.  But they supposedly
    had an outstanding freshman class this past season, so this year's
    less-than-spectacular class shouldn't hurt them much next season.
    However, ND did sign the nation's top receiver.
    
    IMO these recruiting class are similar to the NFL draft in that
    freshmen (or rookies in the NFL) generally don't make a big impact until 
    2 or 3 years down the road.
    
    Here is how 3 of the nation's top recruiting analysts project
    yesterday's signings:
    
    Max Emfinger           Tom Lemming            Allen Wallace
    1. Penn St             1. Michigan            1. Penn St
    2. FSU                 2. FSU                 2. Michigan
    3. Florida             3. Penn St             3. FSU
    4. Tennessee           4. Tennessee           4. Washington
    5.(tie) Colorado       5. Colorado            5. Texas A&M
    5.(tie) Georgia        6. Texas A&M           6. Georgia
    7.(tie) Washington     7. Florida             7. Florida
    7.(tie) Alabama        8. Georgia             8. Colorado
    9. Texas A&M           9. Washington          9. Alabama
    10. Notre Dame         10. Texas              10. USC     
    
    
    Joe
    

 The football recruiting season has been a pretty hot story here in
 Charlotte, too.
 
 The consensus here is that both North Carolina and South Carolina did
 extremely well.  North Carolina apparently has had some impact on a
 *national* level with several recruits coming from Texas, California and
 other states.   South Carolina apparently is scoring well with their
 recent entry into the SEC which made them more attractive (compared to
 Clemson) to more in-staters than before.
 
 Also Georgia Tech snagged what I thought I read was the top QB in the
 country.  And Clemson grabbed its usual boatload of studs despite South
 Carolina's success.
 
 One analyst said that the hottest programs in the country right now are
 Texas, Penn State, and North Carolina in terms of national recruiting
 impact.   Michigan and Notre Dame ain't weak, either.
 
 Bob Hunt

Colorado just got aced out on being the top of the heap for this
recruiting year. They did real well but they also thought they were
pretty close on the top two Louisiana High Schoolers; but one went to
Univ Miami and the other went to San Diego State.

Mike JN

    The Yankee Conference has expanded to 12 teams with the addition of
    James Madison, William and Mary and (finally!) Northeastern.  The
    expanded league will be in place for the 1993 football season and will
    be divided into 2 divisions.
    
    The New England Division will consist of Massachusetts, Maine, New
    Hampshire, Rhode Island, Boston University and Connecticut.
    
    The Mid Atlantic Division will consist of Northeastern, William and
    Mary, James Madison, Delaware, Richmond and Villanova.
    
    Teams will play 5 games in their own division and 4 games in the other
    division.  This will leave room for one or two non-league games.  For
    example, UMass can still play Holy Cross, UNH can play Dartmouth, UConn
    can play Yale, URI can play Brown, William and Mary can still play
    Virginia and Navy and so forth.
    
    I think it's great for the conference and I'm particularly pleased that
    Northeastern finally got in.  I believe NU got screwed by BU too many
    times in the past over the question of conference admittance and I
    think this will serve to save NU football.
    
    John

    John, They are absolutely ecstatic down here about this announcement.
    JMU and William & Mary were really beginning to fret about schedules.
    And, Richmond is now happy to be in a conference that has some
    geographic meaning. 
    
    Although I am glad that Northeastern is now in a conference,
    geographically it is the odd man out. 
    
    Rich
    

 That is a very nice looking football conference.
 
 I think it now means the college football world has seen the last of the
 Virginia vs William and Mary (aka "Bill And The Wife") matchups.   This
 past season, it was a very lopsided mismatch and it didn't help either
 team very much.   W&M took the loss and Virginia got grief for playing a
 patsie.
 
 James Madison, Richmond, and William and Mary all in something called the
 "Yankee" Conference ???   Ol' Jeff Davis must be spinning like a top in
 his grave.
 
 Bob Hunt

> I think it now means the college football world has seen the last of the
> Virginia vs William and Mary (aka "Bill And The Wife") matchups.   This
> past season, it was a very lopsided mismatch and it didn't help either
> team very much.   W&M took the loss and Virginia got grief for playing a
> patsie.
    
    But Bob, how are you going to live without this essential intrastate 
    rivalry?  ;-)
    
    If William & Mary is normally as strong as they were this year, they
    may dominate the Yankee for a few years to come.  Didn't they 
    absolutely destroy Yankee champ UMass in the playoffs?
    
    glenn
    

    William and Mary pasted us 38-0 in the first round of the Division 1-AA
    playoffs.
    
    I really don't know how they're going to work the automatic bid - there
    probably won't be a 1-game playoff (as with the SEC) - or if both
    divisional champs go, or what.
    
    I'd also heard Richmond was thinking of leaving the league and now
    they'll be able to stay - and I'm happy about that.
    
    Northeastern is the odd man out in their division but with 7 teams in
    New England, 1 team had to go into the Mid-Atlantic Division and they
    thought NU, as the new kid on the block, should go.  They felt the
    established rivalries among the original 5 plus BU (Vermont was an
    original YC team but dropped football after the 1974 season) were so
    strong that it didn't make much sense to upset things.  Northeastern
    has played Harvard the last couple of years and that's a match up that
    makes sense to continue.
    
    From a UMass perspective it won't mean many changes anyway.  We have
    been playing non-conference games regularly with Northeastern and Holy
    Cross and have played James Madison from time-to-time.  We have a
    10-game schedule guaranteed with the 9 conference games plus Holy
    Cross.  Even if we don't pick up an 11th game it's still a strong
    schedule.
    
    I think it's a great move and one that's long overdue.
    
    John

    Read an article about Gary Wilkos, UMass QB who was severely injured
    against Delaware last Fall.
    
    While he admits his chances of ever playing again are slim, he's
    lifting weights and intends to be ready for next Fall if he can be
    medically cleared.  He's out of his neck brace and is just wearing a
    soft collar.  His goal is to be at full workout speed for the summer
    and give it his best shot prior to camp opening in August.  He also
    says that if he can't play football, he's still got two years of
    eligibility left and would like to use them in either basketball or
    baseball, or both (he could probably get clearance for both even if he
    couldn't get cleared for football).
    
    With an attitude like his, he'd be an asset to any team and I hope he
    gives it his very best shot.
    
    John

    
    
    University of Tennessee football program being investigated by the
    NCAA.  Most of the violations are by one assistant coach, so the Vols
    may get off easy.
    
    
      David
    

    News...

    	Three Syracuse football players were arrested on felony burglary
    charges after breaking into a campus apartment and stealing electronic
    equipment and furniture,police said. Arrested were Rodney R.
    Johnson(22),Kerry Ferrell(19) and Reginald Tony Jones(19). The three
    sophomores pleaded innocent to the burglary charge.

    B.A.

    Fresno State will join the Western Athletic Conference in July of 1992
    to give the conference 10 teams.  Since they usually win the Big West
    title in football and then proceed to blow out the MAC champ in the
    California Bowl, it'll be interesting to see how they'll do in the WAC.
    It should step up their program a bit in football.
    
    Joe  

    I've been brousing through some of the college football annuals that
    are already out, and thought I'd put some pre-preseason observations.
    
    Best team: Most everybody agrees it's Florida State, but that doesn't
    mean they'll win the national championship.  Their schedule includes
    BYU in the Pigskin Classic, Michigan, Florida, Louisville, LSU, and
    Miami.  Other teams which could be considered title contenders include
    Michigan, Washington, Miami, Notre Dame, Clemson, and Florida.
    
    Game of the Year: Florida State at Michigan, Sept. 28th.  If Michigan
    gets out of September undefeated, they will be number 1 and the
    frontrunner for the national championship.  Why?  What should be their
    2 toughest games, ND and FSU, are both in the month of September.
    
    Team most likely to benefit from an easy schedule: Clemson.  Their
    toughest non-conference games are South Carolina and Georgia, and they
    get Georgia Tech at home.
    
    -Oklahoma is coming off probation and is favored to win the Big 8 title.  
    You could probably throw them in there as a contender for the national
    title also because their only tough non-con foe is Texas.
    -Georgia Tech plays Penn State in the Kickoff Classic (in East
    Rutherford).
    -Miami's and Nebraska's schedules are respectable this year (although
    Miami's was more than respectable last year).  The Canes play Houston,
    Penn State, and Florida State, while Nebraska gets Arizona State and
    Washington in addition to Oklahoma and Colorado.
    -The Big East is only a conference only by name because teams won't
    play a full league schedule until 1993.
    -Rivalries gone by the wayside as of this season: Penn St.-Syracuse, 
    Miami-ND, and Auburn-FSU.
    
    
    Joe
    

    I have confidence.  Even though Bo is no longer coach, he'll still find
    a way to help Michigan lose one somewhere in there.
    
    Command Scott

    > I have confidence.  Even though Bo is no longer coach, he'll still find
    > a way to help Michigan lose one somewhere in there.
    
    Very true.  *If* Michigan were to have gotten out of September undefeated 
    the past five years or so, they might have hung up a few national 
    championship banners already.  Same goes for Florida State.
    
    glenn
     

>>    -Rivalries gone by the wayside as of this season: Miami-ND,

      This is a crime. Bring Jimmy Johnson back to Miami for one
      more battle against Lou and the ND boys.

      Erickson is ruining the Hurricanes.

Chuck

    
>>    -Rivalries gone by the wayside as of this season: Miami-ND,

    >  This is a crime. Bring Jimmy Johnson back to Miami for one
    >  more battle against Lou and the ND boys.

    >  Erickson is ruining the Hurricanes.
    
    That was a Notre Dame decision made before Johnson left Miami...
    
    glenn
    
    

    glenn,

        I knew ND pulled out of the Miami game put I didn't want to get
        into another rat hole about that. I should of added more to my
        comment about Dennis Erickson so it didn't appear as if he was the
        one who put an end to 'Cane-ND game.

        Erickson is changing the personality of the Canes. No more dancing,
        no more "hard guy" image, and no more on emphasis speed. He walked 
        in as coach into a ready made back to back National Title team and 
        he didn't deliver. Lou showed him how to coach a team for the big
        game last year.

        Fun team to watch will be San Diego State.

   Chuck
            

    I'm not so sure how much Erickson is trying to clean up the Canes,
    despite what he says.  After all, he was the one who said the hell with
    the refs in the Cotton Bowl, let's just act like renegades and kick
    some a$$, which they did.  Personally, I think Miami plays better when
    they're dancing and misbehaving.  Look how well they behaved themselves
    in the BYU and ND games last year...and look who won.  Now look at the
    '89 win over ND and the Cotton Bowl.  They behavior wasn't pretty, but
    they played great in those games.  
    
    Anyway, new Miami AD Dave Maggard will attempt to change Miami's outlaw
    image.  "Academics come first with Dave Maggard," said Dave Lieberman,
    point man for Miami's search committee.  Maggard said: "We have some
    work to do."
    
    Joe

    What's this about a new method for determining a National Champ?

    A new alliance has been formed between the Orange, Cotton, Sugar, and
    Fiesta Bowls.  A setup between these bowls will increase the chance the
    #1 and #2 ranked teams will meet on New Year's Day.  The teams involved
    will be the Big 8, SEC, SWC, Big East, and ACC Champs, along with Notre
    Dame and 2 other highly ranked at-large teams.  The Big 8, SWC, and SEC
    champs will still go to the Orange, Cotton, and Sugar Bowls
    respectively.  The 5 remaining slots will be filled by the other teams,
    with #1 and #2 being matched up if possible.  Instances where #1 and #2
    couldn't meet up would be if the #1 or #2 ranked team is playing in the
    Rose Bowl, or if the Big 8 champ happens to be #1 and the SEC champ
    happens to be #2, for example.  If the #1 and #2 teams were not from
    the Big 8, SEC, SWC, Big 10 or Pac 10, they would meet in the Fiesta
    Bowl.  An example of this would be if, say, Miami and Clemson were the
    #1 and #2 ranked teams.  This system would've worked nicely the past 2 
    years, with CU playing Miami 2 years ago and CU playing GT this past 
    season, which is what should've happened anyway.  Another very
    important factor is that these bowls won't decide the matchups until
    the final regular-season polls come out in early December.  I haven't
    heard what poll they would be going by, but I would assume they will
    decide on AP.
    
    Basically, the bottom line is the 2 top ranked teams will meet if:
    -Neither one of them is the Big 10 or Pac-10 champ.
    -#1 and #2 aren't both from this group of conferences: Big 8, SWC, or
    SEC.
    
    The one other wrench that could be thrown into the plan is if
    the #1 or #2 ranked team was from the WAC.  
    
    Joe

> Perhaps the best result of all is that the premature invitations
> should now cease.   This agreement makes all these bowls wait until
> the end of the regular season so that they can try to pair up the
> top two ranked teams.
    
    This is the only real benefit to the system, in my opinion, and
    something that could have been done without the alliance anyway with an
    invitation cutoff date.  The same old arguments about who is #1 and who 
    is #2 relative to conference disparities and schedules will persist, 
    though.  I also think that an arrangement that leaves Notre Dame with a 
    slot in a major bowl, regardless of record or rank, is a bit bogus, too.
    
> It also leaves the Big Ten and the Pac-10 completely out of the
> picture since they're both locked into the Rose Bowl.   Wonder if
> Penn State regrets its move into the Big Ten now.   I also don't know
> how the Citrus Bowl figures into all this but it makes Florida State
> look brilliant for joining the ACC and it reinforces the importance
> of Miami to the Big East.
    
    This would be the ACC slant on the alliance.  Florida State, as an
    independent, has always been in great shape as far as an arranged 
    national championship game went, if they'd ever gotten into that 
    position.  They've been able to fill great slots in the prime bowls in 
    the past due to their freedom of movement, and their new association 
    with the ACC leaves them no better off than if they'd joined any other 
    conference in the alliance (in the prestige department maybe less so).  
    I'm sure they're still pleased with all the benefits of being in a 
    conference, but this largely cosmetic arrangement between the bowls 
    hardly makes Florida State look like soothsayers.
    
    On the other side, yes, unfortunately Penn State may suffer the
    consequences if they happen to finish the regular season #2 in the next 
    few years, but they come up big in the regular season and definitely on
    the money side (being practical for a moment).  The Pac-10 and Big Ten 
    are no worse off with the alliance of other conferences than without 
    it, and Penn State knew that coming in.  As a Penn State fan who's not 
    particularly worried about their ability to negotiate a national 
    championship in the few years before a real playoff system comes into 
    being, I'm still more excited about watching Big Ten (and potential
    Rose Bowl) play in the near future than the somewhat stale, 
    predominantly East/ACC schedule year after year.
    
    glenn
    

Sounds to me like Garbage In Garbage Out.  

I mean, if everyone is always "debating" (nice conotation) the rankings
and why someone should/should not be #1, then a #1-#2 matchup is only
as good as the validity of the rankings....


'Saw

    'Saw,
    	It might not be perfect but it is a step in the right direction.
    Hopefully in the near future an arrangement could be made to accomodate
    the Rose and Holiday bowls( only because the WAC needs to be
    represented). The two big holes obviously are the Big Ten(11) and the
    Pac 10. Recent performances indicate that these two conferences
    probably won't be in the picture for the mythical but things will turn
    around for them. 
    	Glenn, isn't PSU eligible for a slot in the new arrangement for its
    first year? I agree with you that it will be fun to watch the Lions
    perform in the Big 10(11) and they should do quite well. It will be
    nice to see another so-called outsider( as PSU will be considered at
    first ) whup them Wolverines. It will be even m,ore fun to listen to
    all the Maize and Blue crybabys lament their, only-if-he-hadn't-thrown
    that-pass or we-shoulda-won-the-last-three-years-cuz-we-gained-100
    plus-over-them, hogwash.  PSU's schedule this year has a couple of
    toughies; Ga.Tech,Miami, and ND . 
    	Speakin' of ND, Glenn, are ya ready for the Irish to thrash the
    Lions in Beaver Stadium on November 16? Pack your bags and make the
    road trip with me fellow Domer, me boyo Dave McNeil. We'll let ya
    root for the lions if'n you buy the beer. Seriously, we are going to
    attempt to get tix, so start making plans.  About ND and the new bowl
    arrangement. I doubt very much (at least I hope so ) that they would
    be the beneficiary of some automatic bid. I hope there is some rational
    thought here as it would stink to high heaven if there was even a
    perceived auto bid. Cripe, that's all ND would need in light of their
    contract with NBC. We don't need another PR fiasco.
         Is MrT going to make the trip from Minny to watch his beloved 
    Mallory-led Alma Mater get made mincemeat out of by the Holtz Horde on
    Sept 7 ? We has to get you back for all those BBall Buttkickings.
    
    MikeL
     

>    	It might not be perfect but it is a step in the right direction.
>    Hopefully in the near future an arrangement could be made to accomodate
>    the Rose and Holiday bowls( only because the WAC needs to be
>    represented). The two big holes obviously are the Big Ten(11) and the
>    Pac 10. 

    Actually, the only real significant thing this deal offers that wasn't
    there before is it won't let the bowls invite until the regular season
    is completely over.  The Orange Bowl had no business inviting ND 2
    years ago when they still had to play Miami.  As long as the Big 10 and
    Pac-10 are locked into the Rose, there will always be the problem of
    the #1 or #2 team being from one of those conferences.  And don't
    forget that if #1 is from the SEC and #2 from the Big 8, we still won't
    have a 1-2 matchup in the bowls.  
    
>    It will be even m,ore fun to listen to
>    all the Maize and Blue crybabys lament their, only-if-he-hadn't-thrown
>    that-pass or we-shoulda-won-the-last-three-years-cuz-we-gained-100
>    plus-over-them, hogwash.  

    Call it hogwash Mike, but it's the plain truth.  Michigan has outplayed
    the Irish the past 3 years.
    
>    About ND and the new bowl
>    arrangement. I doubt very much (at least I hope so ) that they would
>    be the beneficiary of some automatic bid. I hope there is some rational
>    thought here as it would stink to high heaven if there was even a
>    perceived auto bid. Cripe, that's all ND would need in light of their
>    contract with NBC. We don't need another PR fiasco.
 
    ND does not have an automatic bid into this alliance.  The agreement
    says that if ND has a mediocre season, they will agree to not go to one
    of the 4 bowls.
    
    Joe

    
    
        ND will go undefeated until the Vols come into South Bend and get
    revenge for last years defeat in Knoxville.  
    
    
    
        David 

    Tennessee sure owes the Irish one after letting them steal last year's
    game in Knoxville.  I figured that game in Knoxville to be ND's most
    likely to lose last year.  But ND surely won't be undefeated  by the
    time that game comes around.  The only time the Irish will be
    undefeated is the one week following their opener against the Hoosiers.
    
    Joe

    Boys, let's think back a bit. The Irish did not "steal" anything
    against the Vols. that was an up and down game,real competetive, if
    I recall. And yup, the Vols could knock off ND this year. The Irish
    will have to rely on a bunch of talented, and not seasoned, group
    of sophs in addition to hoping the backfield of Bettis,Culver ( two
    Michigan lads btw) and Mirer (who was going to the Univ. of Michigan
    till he seen the light ) jell and produce. Looking at their schedule,
    several teams can knock 'em off; at Michigan, at Stanford,USC, Tenn.,
    at Penn St, and possibly even dem 'Bows in Honolulu. My prediction:
    10-2 or 9-3. And yes, Joe, this may be the year that Michigan beats
    the Irish, if'n they don't smif.
    
    Let's look back at the last three Irish-Michigan games.
    1. 1988. ND 19-Mich 17. Only caught glimpses of this one. heard it was
    a pretty even game up until Michigan smiffed their final FG attempt.
    
    2. 1989. Don't remember the score, but it was the rainy, miserable day
    in Michigan with Rocket running two TD's back. A conservative game plan
    by the Irish added with Rocket's runbacks were enough to hold off the
    Wolvwerines. The Irish were consistently up by 10-13 pts all day and
    why get fancy in the pouring rain,on enemy territory with a day-long
    consistent lead. Sure Michigan finally got untracked with Grbac, but
    the irish were able to move the ball when necessary. Remember,in the
    4th quarter, they held the ball for the final 4-5 minutes to preserve
    the win. And don't give me that gargage that it was only because of
    Rocket's TD's that the Irish won. They played the game ON the road
    with a consistent lead in the rain, did not gamble, ans won. And
    remember, the vaunted Michigan running attack was basically stuffed
    all day. Sour grapes by Michigan fans. The best team won.
    
    1990. OK, ,Joe, I admit that Michigan outplayed the Irish and should
    have won. Michigan totally controlled the 2nd and 3rd quarter and
    should have blown the Irish away. A bad call by the refs, a bad 
    decision by Grbac really hurt. But again remember, from the 10 minute
    mark of the 4th quarter to the final gun the Irish took control and
    won. Yup, the better team on this day did not win. But, alas,the
    Wolverines smiffed again.
    Hail,hail to Michigan the champions of the West! (West Lansing maybe)
    
    So as far as on the field control, it looks to me like a 1-1-1 for the
    last three years.
    
    
    
    
    
    

    
    	The arguement about kickoff/punt returns not counting
    	when debating who the better team won holds water like
    	a sieve with me.  The special teams play is just as
    	important as offense or defense.  If a team can't stop
    	a guy like the Rocket, then they were not the better
    	team.
    
    	Claybone

>    Boys, let's think back a bit. The Irish did not "steal" anything
>    against the Vols. that was an up and down game,real competetive, 

    Agreed, it certainly was one of the most entertaining games of the 1990
    season.  I was just disappointed in Tennessee because they never got on
    a rampage and got the crowd rockin' and rollin'.  Maybe I expected too
    much from them, something like their 2nd half with Florida last year.
    (This was the game where UT led 7-3 at halftime and proceeded to win by
    a score of 45-3).
    
>    will have to rely on a bunch of talented, and not seasoned, group
>    of sophs in addition to hoping the backfield of Bettis,Culver ( two
>    Michigan lads btw) and Mirer (who was going to the Univ. of Michigan
>    till he seen the light ) jell and produce.

    They may be inexperienced but certainly not lacking for talent.  The one 
    thing that scares me is that this is the kind of situation Holtz loves: 
    no preseason #1 rankings, no big-time stars, and only one possible
    preseason All-American in Derek Brown.  In 1988 I'm pretty sure ND
    wasn't even a preseason top 10.
    
>    several teams can knock 'em off; at Michigan, at Stanford,USC, Tenn.,
>    at Penn St, and possibly even dem 'Bows in Honolulu. My prediction:
>    10-2 or 9-3. 
    
    Add Michigan State into that list.  That's one game from last year
    where I'm sure you'll admit ND didn't deserve to win.  What the hell, I
    think Air Force could surprise 'em, especially if ND comes into CXO
    with 2 or 3 losses and a low level of confidence.  (Remember 4 in a
    Row!!)
    
>    1. 1988. ND 19-Mich 17. Only caught glimpses of this one. heard it was
>    a pretty even game up until Michigan smiffed their final FG attempt.
    
    I don't remember any details of this game either, but my worst memory
    of this one is that little sh!t kicking the game-winner with about a
    minute left.
    
>    1990. OK, ,Joe, I admit that Michigan outplayed the Irish and should
>    have won. Michigan totally controlled the 2nd and 3rd quarter and
>    should have blown the Irish away. 
     
    Michigan came back nicely after being down 14-3 early.  There were
    really 3 key moments in this game, all of which were instrumental in
    enabling ND to come back:
    1. Michigan leading 24-14, threatening to take it into the end zone
    again and put the Irish away right then and there.  They not only fail, 
    but miss a short field goal. (which would've been meaningless anyway).
    2. Michigan still leading 24-14, ND has a 3rd and long deep in their
    own territory.  Then there's the deflection and completion near midfield, 
    and undoubtedly the biggest play of the game.
    3. Michigan leading 24-21 and threatening to take it in down at around
    the Irish 10 yard line.  Michigan has had a beautiful drive
    predominantly on the ground, running the ball right at the Irish
    defense.  Then the terrible decision to pass the ball, and right into
    the hands of an Irish defender (wasn't it Stonebreaker?).
    
    
    Joe
    
    

    Joe,
    	That int was Stonebreaker. That really hurt Michigan and a TD 
    would have salted the game away. I still don't understand the call
    as the Wolverines were tearing huge holes in the Irish line via the
    rush. That deflection enabled the Irish to get back in the game at
    the time. The Irish were lucky to have remained in the game. Their
    final drive was a piece of art (for ND fans anyway ).
    	MSU traditionally plays the Irish tight, especially more in South
    Bend than in East Lansing. I still can't believe Mirer's pass bounced
    off that MSU defender's chest right into Adrian jarrell's hands for the
    TD. 
    
    Irish schedule for 91:
    
    9/7   Indiana
    9/14  at Michigan
    9/21  Michigan State
    9/28  at Purdue
    10/5  at Stanford
    10/12 Pittsburgh
    10/19 at Air Force
    10/26 USC
    11/2  Navy
    11/9  Tennessee
    11/16 at Penn St.
    11/30 at Hawaii
    
    1/1/92  ??????
    
    
    
    MikeL
    

    Hey, Schembechler's back. He's going to be co-hosting the collegiate
    football scoreboard show with Roger Twibell. I can envision it now.
    
    Setting:  September 14,1991, 5 PM in studio
    
    Roger: Well, Bo, we just witnessed a great football match between
           Notre Dame and Michigan. You got to admit that Craig Hentich,
           Irish placekicker, made a great 55 yd fg, bouncing from one
           crossbar to the other, before dropping over the bar to give
           ND a thrilling 17-16 victory as time ran out. Now that's four
           years in a row that these two football giants have played
           a great game, each time the Irish coming out a winner.
    
    Bo:   (Slowly crushing two dit cokes)  Harumph,ah well, it was a good
          kick, but that 100 mph gust certainly made it lucky. We, I mean
          Michigan had the game in control, but that ( double-censored )
          Grbac fumbled the dang snap (voice rising, permanent rictus-grin
          in place). We, I mean Michigan, controlled the flow of the game,
          outgained the Irish by over 100 yards, and should have won!
          (banging fist on table) Pure luck, that's all it was. Just like
          the previous three years!
    
    Roger: You got to admit that Holtz made some great defensive
           adjustments to stop the Woverines vaunted running attack.
    
    Bo   : (Biting Maize and Blue towel ) Yea, but it was because those
           linemen started playing too individually. They gotta remember
           it's THE TEAM, THE TEAM, THE TEAM,( panting heavily now )
           Yea and Holtz ain't too bad of a coach, even tough he's a 
           sneaky little jerk ! (snarling now )
    
    Roger: But, Bo, this is the forth year in a row that Notre Dame has put
           the proverbial pin into Michigan's national title cushion!
    
    Bo   : ( tearing Yellow Pages book in half ) Lucky ( double-censored)
           All we, er Michigan, care about is the Big Ten title and the
           Rose Bowl. That's the real season. Now all they have to do is
           put this game behind 'em and tear up the rest of the Big Ten!
           This game with Notre Dame means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, DID YA HEAR
           ME,(hands around Roger's neck ) ABOLUTELY NOTHING!!
    
    Roger: (Cough, cough, wheeze) Easy Bo, easy !. Let's move on the see
           how another Big Ten tradition, Michigan State
    
    Bo:    (Interupting) MSU! Tradition! Bah ! (pulling out hair) There's
           only one tradition in Michigan and that's the Wolverines!
           What have MSU ever done! One good team in '66 under those two
           dopes, Biggie Munn and Duffy Daugherty , Tradition! Ha! Don't
           make me laugh. All that school does is spawn a bunch of
           pot-smokin' nitwits! Tradition, my foot!
    
    Roger: Well, ah ,Bo, let's move on to the scores
    
    Bo:    ( Rising quickly, kicking over desk and chair ) Forget it!
           I gotta get on the phone to that spineless Moeller. What
           a stupid coaching game plan !! He's forgotten everything I
           taught him! I never should have left Ann Arbor! Remember
           it's THE TEAM, THE TEAM, THE TEAM ( stalking off stage )
    
    
    
    MikeL
    
    All smileys. Sorry Joe C, couldn't resist!
    

    
    > Speakin' of ND, Glenn, are ya ready for the Irish to thrash the
    > Lions in Beaver Stadium on November 16? Pack your bags and make the
    > road trip with me fellow Domer, me boyo Dave McNeil. We'll let ya
    > root for the lions if'n you buy the beer. Seriously, we are going to
    > attempt to get tix, so start making plans.
    
    Still sounds good, Mike (I'm just getting caught up on some of these
    discussions from way back).  Have you guys made any progress with the
    tix?
    
    > Glenn, isn't PSU eligible for a slot in the new arrangement for its
    > first year? I agree with you that it will be fun to watch the Lions
    > perform in the Big 10(11) and they should do quite well. It will be
    > nice to see another so-called outsider( as PSU will be considered at
    > first ) whup them Wolverines. It will be even m,ore fun to listen to
    > all the Maize and Blue crybabys lament their, only-if-he-hadn't-thrown
    > that-pass or we-shoulda-won-the-last-three-years-cuz-we-gained-100
    > plus-over-them, hogwash.  PSU's schedule this year has a couple of
    > toughies; Ga.Tech,Miami, and ND . 
    
    Penn State's still independent and eligible for at least the next
    couple years.  I'm still hoping there'll be a real national 
    championship breakthrough by the time they've fully entered into the 
    Big Ten, although I'm not holding my breath.  Tradition dies hard in
    the college game, and while I'd like to see improvements in the
    postseason, when I look at what the pros have done with the sport I
    can't say that I'm terribly upset that the colleges are so steadfast in
    their ways...
    
    I hadn't realized that State snuck in Georgia Tech this year.  Haven't
    played them in god knows how long.  What are Tech's prospects this
    year?  The QB Sean Jones is back, right?
    
    glenn
                     

    Shawn Jones is back at QB for Tech along with 6 other starters on
    offense and 8 on defense.  Their biggest weakness could end up being 
    their OL, where they lost some people.  
    
    That GT-PSU game is next Wednesday, followed by the Pigskin Classic
    on Thursday night which will be BYU vs. FSU.  I suspect both both Tech
    and Penn St. will be in the AP top 10, which should come out any day
    now.  Anyone know if this game will be on TV?  I would think so, but I
    remember last year's game in the Meadowlands between Syracuse and USC
    wasn't available out here.  As for Thursday's game, I'm anxious to see
    how impressive FSU looks.
    
    
    Joe

    Glenn,
    PSU-ND tix.
     I'm just about to start advertizing in the ND football mags for the
    tix. I have several other avenues I will pursue. I can guarantee you
    that I will have definite tix in me hands by early october so don't
    fret,it's a sure bet (That sux huh! ). That's how I got tix to last
    year's ND-PSU game. I predict Penn St will end in the top 5 this year
    Only loss to the Irish of course!
    
    MikeL
    

    CBS isn't doing college football this year.  This disappoints me
    because I thought Jim Nantz did a great job.  I also liked John Dockery
    on the sidelines, but he will be working the sidelines for NDC (tm)
    this fall.  Also, I liked CBS' lead-in music to their college football
    games. :^)  
    
    Joe

    The NCAA has voted to narrow the goal posts about 5' which will
    make them the same as the pros.  That's not a bad idea maybe, but
    they left the hash-marks the same distance apart.  They're something
    like 3X the width of the pros.
    
    While making the extra points a lil bit tougher to make it will
    make field goals quite a bit harder.  In fact, the NCAA never
    had a vote to also narrow the hash-marks.  I don't think that
    college rules should make the game tougher than pro rules do but
    that's what is happening at the kicking end of it.
    
    Cowboy
    

    I agree Cowboy, if the distance between gp is lowered by 5', then
    they should bring the hashmarks in a bit for fairness. Gonna see a
    lot of missed fg or 4th down attempts in marginal fg range.
    
    MikeL
    

    The reason for the change was that kickers were playing too big
    a part in scoring.  Now, teams with exceptional kickers will
    have a much better advantage over teams (like OSU) that are
    stuck with average kickers.

    Is there gonna be another Noters Poll? I remember last year it didn't
    start till late in the season.
    
                                            Dan
    

    
    No!  Don't bring the hashmarks closer together!  Having the hashmarks
    well separated is what allows diversity of offense in the college
    game.  You want to pass, fine.  You want to run a wishbone, great.
    Either way, you have the flexibility to set up and use all that open 
    field on the strong side if that's what your offensive strategy 
    dictates.  You see many more breakaway runs in the college game;
    part of that is the lower overall quality of defensive play, the
    other is the wide-open field.
    
    I suppose they could reach a compromise and use a set of virtual
    hashmarks on fourth down within field range.  Short of that, teams
    will have to take a little more care in how they set up for fourth
    down.  Myself, I'm glad that they're trying to make the long field
    goal a little more difficult (first by banning the tees, now with
    the goalposts).  I saw a stat a while back that showed that points
    scored on field goals and field goal attempts had tripled or so
    from about twenty years ago.  That's not good...
    
    glenn
    

    Glenn,
       I think bringing in the gp's will change the strategy of the game
    itself whether or not you bring in the hashmarks. I still think it will
    be an adjustment mentally for a lot of kickers. Maybe I'm wrong but
    I think bringing in the hashmarks a tad (A couple of yards ) will make
    it a little more fair.   Your idea on 4th down has merit though. 
    
    MikeL
    

    When does this rule go into effect?  Next season or next week?  And is
    it too late to get into the goalpost business?
    
    	--dan'l

    Eagle Eye Illustrated reports that Boston College has dropped both
    Purdue and Penn State from their 1992 football schedule. This move was
    made to add Virginia Tech and Miami, thus rounding out the Big East
    Football schedule for the Eagles in 1992. BC will play 6 Big East games
    this year missing only Virginia Tech.
    
    BC will play Penn State for the final time on September 28, 1991 at
    Penn State. BC had 7  or 8 games left with Penn State, but opted out of
    the agreement. 
    
    BC had been scheduled to play Purdue twice starting next year. No
    decision has been made that I'm aware of surrounding games with
    Northwestern and Michigan State scheduled to start in the mid 90's.
    
    BC's series with Notre Dame is not in jeopardy, and don't be surprised
    if the 10 year agreement is extended. Expansion plans for Alumni
    Stadium are again in the works. Future agreements with ND are likely to
    include a home-home arrangement instead of the current 6 games in South
    Bend and 4 in Boston deal.  
    
   Jerry

    Here we are, official opening day of college football, with 2 top 10
    teams matching up tonight in the Meadowlands.  Tomorrow night it's
    preseason consensus #1 FSU against #19 BYU, and here in Colorado
    Springs you won't see either game, even if you have cable.  This really
    f*#%ing sucks!!!  What, are the major networks afraid to pre-empt their
    stupid sitcoms?  I don't know why ESPN didn't jump on at least one of
    these games.
    
    The games are being picked up by Raycom, so only non-affiliated
    stations can pick up the games.  Why local station 21 isn't picking
    them up who the f#%k knows.
    
    Joe, who's seriously pissed off!!!  

    Joe,
    	You sure ESPN ain't picking up the Penn St-Ga. Tech game?
    I looked in the local listings of the Boston newspaper (the Herald)
    and this game is on ESPN, I believe. Can anyone verify? I'm not sure
    about the FSU-BYU game.
    
    MikeL
    

       Both games are on Ch 56 around these parts.
                                  Denny

    You're right about cable, Joe.  Satellite tv is the way to go for
    watching sports--especially with the prices now.  I haven't had
    any problem finding NFL games so far and, hopefully, some of the
    college games will be available too.  My wife recently quit at
    CS Cablevision after 3 years and we're ALL glad to be disassociated.
    
    P.S. The only problem with satellite is the kids complain about
    so much sports programming. :*)
    
    Cowboy
    

    Re. a few back:
    
    As if anyone gives a sweet sh*t about BC or its schedule!
    
    NAZZ

    According to the USA TODAY viewing guide for Wed. evening, ESPN is
    -not- broadcasting the Penn St/GA Tech game.
    
    -Andy <sigh>

>    
>    As if anyone gives a sweet sh*t about BC or its schedule!
>    

The DeliveranceDude does.....

    
    Geez, Joe, I guess the state of Colorado just hasn't moved up to
    the big leagues of college football fandom yet, huh?  What is it,
    the Buffs or nothin'?
    
    Seriously, I'm surprised you guys don't have some rinky-dink UHF
    station out there that wants to pick up these games, especially
    BYU-FSU with the WAC tie-in and all.  Raycom doesn't ask much in
    rights fees, and so a couple of nights of Hogan's Heroes re-runs
    get dumped...
              
    I'm pumped for tonight.  If the Lions don't put a stomping on those
    wimpy Tech boys, I may have to re-evaluate my opinion of ACC football
    slightly in spite of all those regional "rivalries" like 
    Clemson-Appalachian, Virginia-VMI, Tech-Furman, NC-Bill and Mary, 
    NC State-Kent, NC State-Marshall, etc (these are real games, folks...).
    At least Maryland once again shows they have some standards. 
    
    glenn
    

    Glenn, there's 2 UHF stations in Denver that are picking up tomorrow's
    game, and one of 'em is picking up tonight's game.  But out cowtown
    cablevision outfit down here in the Springs doesn't give us those
    2 stations. :^(  The only moderate consolation is that Prime will have
    a tape of the PSU-GT game tomorrow tonight and a tape of the FSU-BYU
    game Friday night.
    
    Must be pretty exciting down in Hotlanta today, with the Braves
    catching the Dodgers and GT opening up tonight.  Won't last long
    though, as Penn State will show GT what big-time college football is
    all about tonight.  Lions by 10+.
    
    Joe                              

    Joe -
    
    I don't know, Georgia Tech may be really up as they defend their
    national title.
    
    JD

    That's *mythical* National Title there JD.
    
    				/Don

    >That's *mythical* National Title there JD.
    
    > 				/Don
    
    
    Naa, that's *wishful* National Title /Don
    
    
    Cowboy

    Third quarter, Penn State is destroying GT 27-3.  The Lions are a
    legitimate top 5 team.  Only weaknesses I can see are the kicking game
    and Sacca who throws wounded ducks.
    
    And does Joe Pa know defense!  Penn State has always had the best
    fundamental tacklers in the nation: hit, wrap, drive, down.  Simple,
    but how many times do you see players just hit and flail.
    
    And D'Onofrio may have a big mouth, but he backs it up.  Still don't
    like him but I have to admire his play.
    
    	--dan'l

    Penn wins 34-22  Sacca throws 5 TDs... For a guy that throws
    "wounded ducks" he did all right....
    
    REK

    Nice to see two teams that play with a lot of class instead of taunting
    and attempting to imitate the "Solid Gold Dancers".
    
    John

    You got that right John.... A real class game with 2 class teams....
    
    REK

 Good, knock those Jackets down a peg or two.   They lived an
 unbelievably charmed life lasted year.  
 
 'Bout time they got a reality check.
 
 Bob Hunt

    RE: class teams
    
    Penn State has always dripped with class.  And I was most impressed
    with Tech keeping their heads about them while they were getting
    crushed.  And then having the determination to score a few TD's at the
    end even though the game was over by the previous quarter.
    
    However, one thing I still noticed, especially on kick returns, was
    needless pushing and instigating.  After a tackle is made there is
    naturally some bumping and shoving going on until the play is blown
    dead.  But there's always some fool who thinks he's too good to get
    bumped a little late and always comes back with a shove in the facemask
    or some other needless flagrant retaliation.
    
    I guess it's part of the intimidation factor, but this kind of "how
    dare you touch me" attitude is getting tiresome.  Moreso when a guy is
    tackled hard.  He retaliates by kicking or throwing the ball at the
    tackler.  Hey, being tackled is part of the game if I remember
    correctly.
    
    For the most part GT was more guilty of this than PSU.  As usual, when
    someone retaliated for what should have been viewed as part of the
    game, the Lion player just turned and walked away.  
    
    	--dan'l

    
    	Now Joe, don't be too hard on the Techsters.  Our Buffs
    	just might have a tough season themselves with all the
    	new starters they've got.
    
    	Claybone

    What a boring dull game.  Thank God for exciting teams like Miami.

    And CU in the past hasn't exactly had tough schedules.  The Big 2 er 8
    isn't exactly a powerhouse conference.  
    
    Kansas, Kasans State, etc....
    
    Plus, lets see how the Buffs do defending their half of the mythical...
    
    JD

    Like Slasher said, it was a yawner.
    
    I like PSU as much as the next guy, but let's open it up!
    
    Bring on da 'Canes!!!!
    
    Mark.

    'Canes sip!!!1

    	With Clemson having a schedule softer than a roll of Charmin
    they could be looking at an undefeated season and a pseudo number
    1 ranking.
    
    				/Don

    
    > The Lions are a
    > legitimate top 5 team.  Only weaknesses I can see are the kicking game
    > and Sacca who throws wounded ducks.               
      
    This is a little bit late, and for the most part I agree with you
    dan'l, but I think the offensive line needs to show some improvement
    over Wednesday night's performance before I start thinking about a
    national championship.  It just didn't seem to me that the Lions
    were having their usual success at running the ball between the 
    tackles, and Sacca was sacked six times from the rush coming up the
    middle, uncontested.  Granted, Sacca is pretty immobile by college 
    football standards (but not by Penn State QB standards) and he
    recovered nicely on several occasions, but the O-line needs to be
    a bit stronger than that when the Miamis and Notre Dames come around.
    
    How about that Richie Anderson, though?  What a stud!  For those
    that stayed up that late, Anderson broke about five tackles on a
    long screen pass play and would not be denied the end zone.  He
    left All-Everything safety Ken Swilling (whose name was not mentioned
    too often on the night, at least not on defense) grasping at air
    twice on the same play.  There was nothing Penn State-boring about
    this kid's play, no sir!
                
    Say hello to the future of the Big Ten, ACC gridders!
    
    glenn
    

    Florida State demolished BYU last night 44 - 28.
    
    JD

>    And CU in the past hasn't exactly had tough schedules. 
   
    JD, you know this is out of line since CU one had one of the toughest
    schedules in the nation last year.  It is significantly weaker this year,
    however.
    
    Looks like FSU is a legit preseason #1 going by last night's result. 
    Amp Lee left the game with a leg or knee injury, but on the news last
    night they didn't know how severe it was.  Anybody have any updates on
    this?
                                                                   
    Joe  

    Joe -
    
    Gotta tweek ya when I cain!  Didn't heare anythang on Lee.
    
    JD

    Big upset from the Left Coast:
    
    Memphis St 24- #16 USC 10
    
    Anyone see the game or can provide some details?
    
    MikeL
    

    This will be Worcester Polytechnic Institute's last season as an
    Independent.  Despite amassing some pretty impressive records over the
    last few years in the NCAA Div. III, they have not been invited to any
    post season play.  Figuring this was due to lack of strength of
    schedule, WPI has joined a conference (I forget which one, now).

>================================================================================
>Note 5.468             The National Football League (NFL)             468 of 472
>BSS::JCOTANCH                                        22 lines   3-SEP-1991 11:44
>                  -< Football should be an emotional game.   >-
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    
>    Also, on Saturday afternoon, I caught the tail end of the East
>    Carolina-Illinois game on ESPN.  Illinois was a big favorite and led at
>    one point 38-10, but EC had just scored to make it 38-31 with about 2
>    minutes left in the game.  EC tried an onside kick and recovered. 
>    The EC players were ecstatic and jumping around and congratulating each
>    other, but there was definitely no taunting involved.  
    
    Wrong.  You, and the rest of the country, were misled by the boobs at
    ESPN.  Just because it isn't on camera doesn't mean it didn't happen. 
    Two officials threw their flags after seeing an ECU player make an
    obscene gesture to the Illini bench.  The cameras were focused on the
    celebration.
    
    I like the no taunting rule.  I do not like the no celebration rule,
    however.
    
    	--dan'l

    Mac -
    
    I read about WPI joining a conference.  The All Wimp Conference (AWC) -
    conference winner gets automatic berth to the Wuss Bowl.  The AWC
    featuares Vassar, Smith, Bryn Mywr, Slyvania Tech, Fashion Institute of
    New York, Johnson and Wales, Weaton and now WPI
    
    JD

    JD,
    
    	Cain we look forward to "JD on Weslyan-XXXXX" reports this
    
    year?
    
    Kev
    

    Ohio University tied Central Michigan Saturday, 17-17!  This is an
    astounding accomplishment for the Bobcats who have won maybe five games
    since I grajiated in '85.  
    
    Sports Illustrated described the Bobcats this year as: Ohio's problems
    start at quarterback and get worse from there.
    
    SI also picked Central Michigan to win the MAC.  
    
    	--dan'l

    And what about my Eastern Kentucky Colonials coming very close to beating
    Louisville?  
    
    EKU blew it in the ending minutes, but really had the chance, after an
    interception to win a Division I team!
    
    God loves EKU.
    
    Chip_RoyKidd_GSH_Bach

    umm...  That should read "...BEAT a Division I team..."
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

    Tennessee looked pretty good last night, beating Louisville 28-11.  
    Louisville was sky-high for this game, and UT would've won by much more 
    if it wasn't for all those turnovers.  That freshman Stewart had a 
    beautiful TD run that made it 21-3.  The Vols have some great athletes.
    SEC race will probably be decided when UT plays at Florida on Oct.
    12th.
    
    I never knew Louisville played in the same stadium as the AAA baseball
    team, but the announcers said something about Louisville building a new
    stadium soon.
    
    Joe

    From this week's TSN:
       
    'Florida State is even better than its already gaudy stack of press
    clippings would have you believe...If FSU doesn't win the national
    championship, it will be one of the greatest wastes of football talent
    in history, considering the Seminoles have enough ability to stock a
    couple of Top 20 teams.  If ever there was a team ready to go the
    entire season ranked first, this is the one.'
    
    "Best talent in the country without question," one NFL scout says.  
    "...Unless they have injury problems, I can't see them losing.  Have
    you seen how quick they are?"
    
    Joe

    The other team in Maize and Blue with funny looking helmets came up and
    danced a tune on my beloved Alma Mater on Saturday, 24-7.  The Fightin'
    Blue Hens of Delaware (who are to UMass what Clemson is to Virginia)
    won their 15th of 16 games against the Minutemen.
    
    Best looking Delaware team I've seen in a couple of years.  Bill
    Vergantino is the best Delaware QB I've seen since Rich Gannon and
    better than any I remember from before Gannon.  If Gary Wilkos was
    still healthy, it would be a real battle between the two of them for
    all Yankee Conference honors.  Vergantino put on a clinic running the
    Delaware Wing-T offense.  Delaware still has the best travelling fan
    support of any school in the Yankee Conference - I couldn't believe all
    the campers and cars with Delaware, New Jersey and Pennsylvania plates
    on them - and they have a lot of class, both on the field and in the
    stands.  Nice people.
    
    Delaware had a 17-0 lead at the half and we didn't score until 8:36
    left in the 4th.  We finally held Delaware 3 downs and out and then
    completed a 44 yard shovel pass to deep in Delaware territory.  Next
    play, reserve QB Paul Tornatore (in relief of starter Tom Fasano) was
    hit from behind while throwing a screen pass.  It went right to Free
    Safety Warren McIntire who made his 3rd interception of the game and
    returned it 64 yards for the clinching score.  UM's big problems this
    year will be a lack of a QB and a lack of a kicker.  Holy Cross is up
    next week and I would rather be in Amherst watching the game than where
    I'll be - at my little brother's wedding.  I hope the advantage of
    having a game under our belt while Holy Cross is opening up will help
    us as much as it did Delaware on Saturday.
    
    Best moment came after the game.  Gary Wilkos, who if you remember had
    his career end (it has been confirmed that he'll never play again,
    although he's healthy and completely mobile) at Delaware last year with
    a broken neck, went over to Vergantino and the Delaware DB who hit him
    after the game.  It seemed to be an emotional reunion among the 3 of
    them.  Most of the Delaware coaching and medical staff came over to
    Gary to wish him well.  No animosity, no hard feelings and it was just
    nice to see that.
    
    John

    Does anyone know if there is a usenet group that contains wire service
    reports on college football?  I've been looking at
    clari.sports.football, but it seems to just give pro football stories.
    There is a group called rec.sports.football.college, but it does not
    give the wire reports, just the usual individual opinions.
    
    Thanks.

    
    
         I finally found someone who has it. Could you help me in
        getting the clari.sports.football news wire. At least point me 
        in the right direction.
    

    Sure are some good games on tap for the 2nd full college weekend,
    starting with Houston at Miami tonight.  Saturday there's ND-Michigan
    of course, pluse Penn St.-USC, 'Bama-Florida, and UCLA-Tennessee.  Too
    bad I'll have to turn off the CU-Baylor game at halftime, but I can't
    miss a chance to see ND get beat up.  :^)
    
    Joe

 What was the final last night. It was 37-3 Canes when I dozed off. Houston
 sure looked lost....

    40-10 'Canes. 
    
    Klingler threw a TD pass with less than a minute left
    
    Rich
    

    Houston was sure having a tough time against Miami's defense.
    What's that make now, 39 wins at home streak?  I was hoping
    that Houston would somehow break a few dozen 'Cane legs since
    Oklahoma State has to return to Miami in acoupla weeks.
    Hopefully, it won't be on the satellite.  It looked like
    the worst thing about playing in Miami is not the players
    but the crowd.  They were throwing trash on the Houston team
    and apparently getting away with it.  You'd think that one
    of these days Miami officials would start throwing out the
    bums.
    
    Cowboy
    

    
   > Houston was sure having a tough time against Miami's defense.
   > What's that make now, 39 wins at home streak?
    
    Penn State's got to go down into that infernal den on Oct 12.  That's
    why I'm holding back on any thoughts of a national championship bid
    until after that game, even if they knock the stuffing out of the likes
    of USC and BYU in the interim...
    
    glenn
    

 What Glenn no compliments to Miami for not being classless and running up
 the score? 

  ;^)

 It was 30-3 at the half...

 Miami defensive line was awesome. They were just blowing by the Cougars' o-men
 all night.  

 mike

    Ah, Forest Gregg must have enjoyed that game last night. Ditto for
    Louisiana Tech players (or whoever Houston rolled it up on last week).
    
    I despise the Houston Cougar philosophy of football. More so than
    Miami's. Houston deserved to get humiliated last night. I only wish
    Klingler didn't get that last second TD toss. Nothing against the kid
    but the program he plays for is second to none in classless
    sportsmanship.
    
    A bunch of Egotestical(tm) maniacs.
    
    Rich
    

    Glenn (or anyone)-
    
    Just what is the baseis of this 'feud' between MacPherson and Paterno??
    
    JD

 Probably the fact that they beat up SU every year. Mac doesn't seem like the
 type of guy who likes loosing or takes loosing well...

 or soemthing dumb like Paterno forgot to shake his hand or beat him to a
 recruit...

It may have something to do with the number of home games Penn St. has
when it plays Syracuse.  I think the last contract was 8 out of 11 games
were played in Happy Valley.  Syracuse wanted more home games and Penn St.
refused.

Result - no more games between them.  I think this was pre-Big 10 decision.

Mike

          Confernces records against other conferences


  SEC                     ACC                      PAC 10
-------                 -------                   -------
10-1-0                   2-1-1                     1-3-0

                              
                              
 BIG 10                  BIG 8                      SWC
-------                 -------                   -------
 5-1-0                   3-1-0                     4-2-0

     
          These are the only six I am going to keep up with.

                  
 > But why do we despise winners for winning and not despise losers for
 > losing ???
    
    We don't.  We despise them for all the reasons you gave, none of which
    have anything to do with winning.  You answered your own question.
    
    For example, Houston was a pretty heavy underdog last night, but I was
    still rooting for Miami.  If I only despised a winner, I'd be going for
    Houston.  Houston is *not* a winner.  They've floundered badly the past
    couple years against anything resembling "competition" (even in their
    own weak conference).  What they have done is convince some people that 
    they are a powerhouse (what was their top ranking last season?) chocked 
    with deserving Heisman Trophy candidates every year by pounding the 
    snot out of some very lame competition.  That's not my definition of a 
    "winner" by any stretch of the imagination.  And that John Jenkins 
    character is the new Jimmy Johnson of college football in my book, at 
    least until proven otherwise.
    
    Bob, you're not going to tell us again that a team is the best until 
    they're beaten, regardless of circumstance, are you?
    
    glenn
    

> But why do we despise winners for winning and not despise losers for
> losing ???

If you can figure out the answer to this question Ketch, you'll probably
go a *long* way toward discovering the reasons for your emotional
anti-UNC biases ...
    
    
    - ACC Chris

       
    Penn State and Syracuse used to play home-and-home every other year, 
    then Penn State very tackily tried to jam a 6-and-4 split down
    Syracuse's throat in a money grab between the universities.  Penn State
    made the case that more money could be made with more game at Beaver
    Stadium versus the Carrier Dome, and used the fact that they had been
    locked out of the lucrative Big East basketball conference (because all
    along they favored an all-sports conference, something that became a
    reality only *after* Penn State got fed up and joined the Big Ten) as
    partial justification.
    
    Penn State finally made the wise decision (in my opinion) to dump the
    rest of the foot-draggers in the East and went ahead and upgraded their 
    sports program by joining the Big Ten.  That meant bye-bye Syracuse, 
    along with the others, and Mac is apparently still steaming about it,
    even though he's no longer involved with Syracuse.
    
    None of this had much at all to do with Paterno's selection as
    Sportsman of the Year, which was very much based on his successful
    season and his sincere qualities, nor did he run the score up in that
    game (look at the game summary; and why now after 25 years?).  This 
    is why I felt the remark was a cheap shot, unless Mac was joking, but
    that's not the way it was reported.
    
    glenn
    

    I agree with Glenn.  I rooted for Miami last night.  I wanted Houston
    to get destroyed - and Klinger to be unmasked for what he is - another
    overrated QB benefitting from a style of play (where IS Andre Ware
    anyway? Hrumph!)
    
    JD

    > - and Klinger to be unmasked for what he is - another
    > overrated QB benefitting from a style of play (where IS Andre Ware
    > anyway? Hrumph!) 
    
    Klingler is overrated if you think of him in terms of 500+ yds, 5+ TDs
    a game, but he is supposed to be a top-notch talent.  The stuff I've
    read says he's close to a lock as the number one pick in the draft. 
    Still, after last night, up against the tough competition, he didn't
    show the stuff Heismans are made of.  It wasn't entirely his fault, 
    either, because his offensive line was horrible, but I still want my
    Heisman winner to show something in the big games.  Detmer at least 
    did that in a big way against Miami last year...
        
    glenn
    

    Glenn -
    
    You hit the nail on the head.  He's overrated due to sky-high stats.
    But, from what I've read, he is supposed to be a real talent.  Like to
    see him in a different offense.
    
    Hopefully, the voters will dump Houston way down in the polls.  No way 
    are then a top ten team.  
    
    JD

    PSU depends on its football program to support all of its other
    athletic programs. JoePA needs to get that kind of scheduleing from the
    Eastern rivals to maintain that kind of cashflow. It needs to be
    pointed out as well that any team that plays at Beaver Stadium
    generally makes more money from that appearance than they would from a
    home game anyway, due to the size and the usual sell out crowd. 
    
    The other PSU/Syracuse issue resolves around the formation of the Big
    East. Penn Sttae would play Syracuse in every sport and helped build up
    the football program due to the eastern influence. Now when it comes
    time to form a conference, PSU is shut out and Syracuse is in. No
    longer will the Syracuse basketball team play the Lions. I think that
    sucks at least as much as the alleged football stiff by Penn State.
    
    Dennis
    

    Dennis, I have to disagree with you on one thing.  Penn State and
    Syracuse didn't play each other regularly in basketball because they
    weren't even in the same league.
    
    The basis for the Mac - Paterno feud is probably that the Paterno
    public image isn't exactly the way he really is, or as one of my
    friends in the coaching business (not Mac) put it, "He's a cutthroat
    bas***d."  It has nothing to do with Penn State winning so much, as far
    as I know.
    
    John

    
    Ugh.  As I was afraid of with my comments on Penn State after the
    Georgia Tech game, Penn State went out and proved versus a fired-up USC
    squad that they're vastly overrated.  The young offensive line was
    terrible, and Tony Sacca came through again with one of his more usual
    inconsistent, inaccurate performances.  When it comes to reading blitzing 
    or changing defenses (the blitz came on almost every passing down),
    finding and *hitting* the open man, Sacca is more in the class of a John
    Schaffer than a Todd Blackledge.  What I couldn't understand is why
    Paterno kept coming back with the pass on almost every down in the
    third quarter when it was failing so badly, and giving USC such great
    field position as a partial result (has Sacca worn Paterno down with his 
    constant complaints about passing more?  We saw the number one reason why 
    at least until now Paterno has resisted such temptations: Sacca is not a 
    big league passer.)  Unfortunately, I can see this team struggling with 
    their second-tier opponents more easily than them being able to compete 
    with Miami and Notre Dame.  Oh well...
    
    At least I got my first exposure of the year to the legendary Keith 
    Jackson in this game, who is back in his rightful setting after 
    struggling so badly with college hoops.  Jackson is an institution in 
    college grid, and listening to his whoops and hollers in the big games 
    is an annual rite of passage.  Best line of the night from ol' Possum 
    Hollow Jackson came in response to Bob Griese's comment that the USC 
    QB enjoys relaxing to music, not to rap or crap but to Mozart and 
    Beethoven: "Well, pickin' and a singin' is apickin' and a singin' in 
    any generation, I suppose..."  What would the masters make of this fine 
    country gentleman? 
    
    glenn
    

    
    > The basis for the Mac - Paterno feud is probably that the Paterno
    > public image isn't exactly the way he really is, or as one of my
    > friends in the coaching business (not Mac) put it, "He's a cutthroat
    > bas***d."  It has nothing to do with Penn State winning so much, as far
    > as I know.
    
    I would agree with this assessment 100%, John, and I would probably say
    close to the same about Mac, too.  Paterno plays to win every time out,
    on the field and off, and backs down from no challenge or perceived
    threat.  He almost got into a brawl on the field with then-Pitt coach 
    (and academically lenient) Mike Gottfried a few years ago, for example,
    after Gottfried floated some unflattering comments on the Paterno
    "legend" coming into that game.  However, no one has ever been able to, 
    at least to my knowledge, claim that Paterno is a phony who has stooped 
    to cheating to do so, or does not have the best interests of his charges 
    at heart.  Such is the basis of his casting as "sportsman", in the 
    BobKnight-mold, complete with the less frequent but still occasional 
    tendency towards the classic temper tantrum, though...
    
    glenn
     

    What successful coach has not been "super-competetive", i.e a
    "cutthroat b#st@rd"  Paterno's strength in guidance, leadership,
    and committment to his athlete's remaining academically-focused
    is what's important, IMO
    
    MikeL
    

          Conferences records against other conferences/teams


	  SEC                     ACC                      PAC 10
	-------                 -------                   -------
	13-2-0                   8-2-0                     6-6-0

                              
                              
	 BIG 10                  BIG 8                      SWC
	-------                 -------                   -------
	10-5-0                   10-4-0                    8-5-0



	BIG EAST
	--------
  	 8-4-0
     
         

    re: .49
    
    As I recall from Paterno's book, he made some reference to the
    PSU/Syracuse basketball games prior to the Big East/Atlantic 10
    conferences. I'm not sure when those conference ties were brought into
    being, but I remember Paterno making reference to Syracuse shutting PSU
    out of the basketball picture. It might have been just giving Penn
    State a shot at a big power like Syracuse to give them a recruiting
    tool, just as the PSU/Syracuse football game was used as a recruiting
    tool for the Orange football program. 
    
    In this whole mess, there's probably enough blame for both coaches and
    the entire sports department staffs.
    
    Dennis
    

    The Washington Huskies will defeat Nebraska this weekend.  The Huskies
    defense will prove to be too fast for Nebraska to do anything
    offensively.  
    
    Come January, the top team in the nation will be determined in the
    Rose Bowl, between Washington and Michigan.  
    
    Final score-  Dawgs- 23  Cornhuskers- 7

 
    re .235
    
> Sure, they have a killer offense that win games with obscene scores. 
> Sure, they run it up mercilessly.   Sure, they're not true "student
> athletes".    Sure, they taunt and tease their beaten opponents.  
> All those things are true.
 
    
    No they are not Bob. Any complaints about the Coogs have been directed
    at John Jenkins - NOT the players. 
    
    I have never seen any taunting by UH players or coaches. 
    
    Bob, I must say I'm disappointed in you shooting from the hip like
    that. If you want to jump on Jenkins for the Eastern Washington game,
    fine. That's something worth deabting. But taunting the op is a
    non-issue. Period.
    
    
    re .237
    
>  Houston is *not* a winner.  They've floundered badly the past
>    couple years against anything resembling "competition" (even in their
>    own weak conference). 
    
    Come again ? They lost exactly 3 conference games in the last 2 years,
    and only the UT game of lasted year was a blowout.
    
    I understand that the Miami thrashing has Coog-bashers
    hyperwoodiferious, but let's be accurate shall we ?
    
>     What they have done is convince some people that they are a powerhouse 
>    (what was their top ranking last season?) chocked with deserving Heisman 
>    Trophy candidates every year by pounding the snot out of some very lame 
>    competition. 
    
    And mostly some pretty solid comp as well. But tunnel vision is a funny
    thing ....
    
>   And that John Jenkins character is the new Jimmy Johnson of college 
>    football in my book, at least until proven otherwise.
    
    Glenn, that is unlikely - logic has gone by the boards in your effort
    to label.
    
    UH has run a clean program since Yeoman (a span of five years +).
    UH players do not taunt.
    UH players have not been involved in much of any controversy.
    
    The main thing you have on Jenkins is that he doesn't run the ball up
    the middle once he has a big lead. 
    
    Fine. But bash him on those grounds, please don't try to link him with
    everything short of the latest MidEast crisis - it blows your
    credibility.
     
    re .239
    
> I agree with Glenn. 
    
    No s**t .... :-)
    
>    I rooted for Miami last night.
    
    And in the process made Wardle look like the rock of Gibralter ...
    
>    I wanted Houston to get destroyed - and Klinger to be unmasked for what 
>    he is - another overrated QB benefitting from a style of play
    
    Sorry bub, but Klinger has highly rated on every scout's list for his
    physical tools and command of the R&S.
    
>     (where IS Andre Ware anyway? Hrumph!)
 
    Sitting behind another good QB in Detroit.
    
    Fella named Rodney Peete.
    
    A fellow that YOU JD, also trashed his rookie year as well.
    
    Remember (if you dare) ????
    
    Harumph indeed ....
    
    (damn that was TOO easy) ....
    
    DOc   
    JD

    re Canes/Coogs
    
    A pity I missed the bulk of the game.But from what I saw, it was an
    old-fashion a$$-whipping.
    
    I think people realize that it wasn't a anti-Run and Shoot statement.
    
    The game was just a clear example of how games are won - up front in
    the trenches. Houston's OL got overpowered, outmatched, and outmanned
    beyond comprehension.
    
    When you DL dominates like that, you can run a wishbone, 4-corners :-),
    conventional - whatever. It won't matter at all ....
    
    UH is a good team, but they are not in Miami's league yet. They haven't
    had a good defense since Pardee left (and took Jim Eddy with him to the
    Oilers, where he is working miracles), and I thought that might
    improve, since the 5 freshmen that started last year were older and
    wiser. 
    
    Wrong.
    
    Toretta killed them. And made it look easy.
    
    Well that's all for now guys ... good to be back in SPORTS.
    
    Doc
    
    p.s. Saw, keep up doing what you're doing ! This is the best response
    time on CAMONE **EVER** !!!!! 

    Ah Doc...
    
    Andre Ware was, in preseason, slated for #3 on the Lions chart.  He was
    definitely a 'stats' star.  I trashed Peete, true - but he still hasn't
    shown that he's a real NFL QB.  The Lions aren't exactly cruising. 
    Also, Rodney has, unfortunately, proven to be a little brittle - a
    characteristic not becoming a quarterback who runs and isn't a pocket
    passer.  He's adequate, at best.  
    
    As for the Wardle crack - first, I'm not jumping on the Miami bandwagon
    - merely rooted for them to beat Houston.  Just like I root for Penn
    State to beat Notre Dame.  Also, if we could (or wanted to) go back
    through the archives of SPORTS, you'd know I was a big Miami hurricane
    fan, until Jimmy Johnson ruined the team.  
    
    Re:  Taunting - they don't taunt like Miami, but I've seen some pretty
    nifty finger pointing and gyrations by a few of the Cougers.  But not
    in the 'class' of the true taunters.  Wanna-be's - even in taunting.
    
    As the the 'fairly decent comp' that Klinger and the boys have rolled
    over...last years schedule was a joke.
    
    This year, despite the relatively weak SWC opponents, Houston had the
    sacrificial patsy  in Louisiana Tech - and they unmercifully ran the
    score up - leaving Klinger in to inflate his states...of course, they
    messed up and scheduled a good team, and got their butts handed to
    them.
    The have Illinois.  A decent team - but not a power.  That's their
    non-conference schedule.
    
    Klinger, I predict, will have 'record-setting days' against TCU, SMU
    and Rice.
    
    You know, if Houston scored 73 points with Klinger and the starters on
    the bench for the last 2 1/2 quarters, it wouldn't be as bad.  But when
    Jenkins leaves them in for no other reason then the glorification of
    stats and to run it up, then there's a good reason for folks to wish
    for the Cougs to fall on their face.
    
    And Doc, in one game I rooted for the Houston Cougars as hard as I've
    ever rooted for any one team - but they lost.  Easy guess as to what
    game I'm talking about...
    
    JD

    Glenn, answer a question for me honestly ....
    
    Why is it that when Paterno wins a game 80-0, you say that he isn't
    running up the score, but when Joh Jenkins wins a game 80-21, he is
    scum, his players are scum, etc etc ????
    
    Just asking ....

    A running team may not look like it's running up the score when it
    really is, while a passing team always looks like it's running up the
    score even when it isn't.
    
    John

       Right John but when that 'passing team' leaves a starting QB in to
     throw a bezillion TD passes it makes you wonder.
                                    Denny
    

    Doc -
    
    We are against Houston because that's where you come from.  So we do it
    to get you mad.  ;-)
    
    Actually, Doc - the points have been made.  When you leave your
    starting QB and offense in for the sole purpose to pad stats - that's
    running up the score.  When you sit your starters midway through the
    2nd quarter, and your 2nd, 3rd and 4th string scores - that's not
    running up the score.  
    
    Face it, Jenkins could have simply ran the ball - yes ran the ball -
    instead of passing it every down.
    
    And remember, Houston, since it started the run and gun or whatever
    cute name they give it, has a history of running up the score.  Just
    ask SMU or Eastern Washington.
    
    JD

    > Also, Rodney has, unfortunately, proven to be a little brittle - a
    > characteristic not becoming a quarterback who runs and isn't a pocket
    > passer.  He's adequate, at best.  
    
    True, he's been hurt alot, but the last two games he looked good.
    The weak link looks like its still the receivers.  They're better
    than last year but they're also hurt.  I think Peete can do a
    good job with the Lion's version of the R&S when they get healthy.
    
    Cowboy

    > Why is it that when Paterno wins a game 80-0, you say that he isn't
    > running up the score, but when Joh Jenkins wins a game 80-21, he is
    > scum, his players are scum, etc etc ????
    
    My point was made very clearly, with no room for any other
    interpretation than what was given.  Jenkins' blowouts somehow 
    mysteriously coincide with an individual setting a personal record (it
    could be rushing or passing, doesn't make a difference).  Penn State's 
    leading offensive player in the Cincinnati game was a third-string
    halfback who didn't even see action in the USC game.  The
    second-leading rusher was Tony Sacca's kid brother with 75 yards on
    *one* run.  No one else was above fifty.  In hindsight, maybe Paterno
    should have been criticized for not getting the starters *enough* work,
    although I doubt it would have made much of a difference.  A good
    practice session against your own defense is probably more productive
    than what happens in a 50+ to nothing game against a broken defense...
    
    If you disagree, then it's a philosophical difference of opinion in
    when you should lift your starters to give someone else a chance, both
    on your team and on the team being humiliated...
    
    For what it's worth, I don't hold blowouts against *any* of the
    players.  They're doing what they're asked.  It's solely the coach's
    responsibility.
    
    glenn
    

       Sounds like a worlda difference between Penn State and Houston. I'm
    sure Dock will justify it somehow though.
                                     Denny

    re .261
    
    Denny, I wondered about that in the Eastern Washington game too, but
    from what was reported in SI (and elsewhere), Klinger's two backups
    were injured, and Jenkins wanted to protect the redshirt elgibility of
    his other two freshman QB's ... which led to that rather sticky
    situation ....
    
    Take it for what it's worth,
    
    Doc

    Oh yeah, in the SMU game, UH used at least three (and maybe 4) QB's ...
    against EW, they went through 3-4 levels on the depth chart except at
    QB ....

    
     So in summation Doc, if someone is deemed a sports icon (Joe Paterno,
    Jimmy Connors, etc.) by the great unwashed (ie. the noters in this con-
    ference with the exception of myself naturally) then anything that said
    icon does (e.g. run up the score on a team they never should have
    scheduled in the first place, make an ass of themselves at the US open,
    etc.) is totally excusable, even laudable.

Tennessee has been hit with 2 years probation for recruiting violations.
They're free to play on TV and to go Bowling. The NCAA accepted their
self-imposed penalty: sh*t.can an assistant coach, don't rehire and drop
10 scholarships. The also agreed to suspend a coaching camp they
sponsored that looked a whole lot like a recruitment ploy where the
emphasis seemed to be on going to Tennessee as part of learning football.

The violations included illegal recruiting contacts, buying an airline
ticket and, the worst, encouraging witnesses to mislead the
investigation.

TTom

       This isn't the first time Houston's run up the score. Did they have
    only 1 QB all those other times too?
                                      Denny

> Tennessee has been hit with 2 years probation for recruiting violations.
> They're free to play on TV and to go Bowling. The NCAA accepted their
> self-imposed penalty: sh*t.can an assistant coach, don't rehire and drop
> 10 scholarships.
    
    Gotta love the NCAA's flexibility in meting out highly varying
    punishments for essentially the same crimes...
    
    glenn
    

    
    	Well then Doc, if all that is true, we can call jenkins
    	STOOPID.  Leaving "the mother of all QBs" in there
    	behind a 4th string line?  Hahahahaha!
    
    	Claybone

    
    Jenkins' rationalization is a little weak.  You supposedly have no
    backup quarterback, so the starter is somehow obligated to keep
    passing till he blows out his rotator cuff in amassing NCAA-record
    yardage and TD totals against an opponent that's not even in Division
    1-A?  That's a little tough to swallow...
    
    glenn
    
    

    re .272
    
    I agree, that is big-time stoopid. What happens if Klinger gets his leg
    broken in a meaningless game ? 
    
    That's probably what it will take to make Jenkins see the light.
    
    As for running up the score, what is proper ettique for a R&S team ?
    
    For that matter, consider this :
    
    Should a team's defense let up and let the opposing offense score when
    the score is 75-0 ? 
    
    Can a defense rub it in by continuing to throw teams for losses ?
    
    Think about it ...
    
    Doc

       It's the same as offense. If the 3rd and 4th team is in there, they
    cain go for it. It's just the jerks who leave starters in who should
    take the heat.
                                         Denny

All blowouts are not created equal.


I'm using the working term "run up the score" as leaving the first string
in, keeping airing it out, etc. If the third team is scoring at will,
there's not much to do about that.

I can't think of a case when a major power should run up the score
against a hapless opponent. This is the heat that Houston is hearing
about.

However, if 2 majors are playing each other, I can see a case for not
letting up and letting the other team back in. An example of this is that
the polls are voted on. The higher the poll position, the more likely to
contend for the national championship and, of course, the major dollars
that come with it.

TTom

    My hatred for Boston College stems from a 70-8 blowout they laid on us
    when I was sophomore.  I knew it was a blow out when they brought their
    starting lineup in to start the second half with a 42-0 lead and they
    came out throwing.
    
    1978 was the revenge year.  It was after I was out of school, but they
    went 0-11 that year and we laid a 27-0 whuppin on them.  Their mediocre
    records in 1977, 1979, 1980 and 1981 were pretty good too.  The Flutie
    years were very, very rough but they've only had 1 winning season since
    then and 1991 doesn't look like it's going to be #2.
    
    I feel that if there is any justice in the football world, the bas***ds
    have been paying for it ever since.
    
    John

    TTom makes a good point.  The subjectivity of crowning the national
    champion probably does play a role in teams running up the score
    against inferior opponents.  I think a bigger and better question is
    why have these matchups in the first place?  It probably benefits the
    smaller schools monetarily.
    
    A couple of years ago in the women's basketball scene, Stephen F.
    Austin college was making a bit of a stink over the fact that they were
    never able to get Texas on their schedule.  Texas, in pursuit of high
    rankings, tended to avoid the lesser schools on the off chance that
    they would be upset and the effect that would have on their national
    ranking.

 
>  There may come a day when you're as powerful as the bully who beat
>  you up lo those many days ago and you'll have all the motivation in
>  the world to strike back in full fury.
 
    Makes me think of something that happened in CU's '89 season when they
    went undefeated in the regular season.  When CU was downright pitiful
    in the late 70's and early 80's, they took 50 point beatings from OU
    and NU regularly.  In 1989 at Norman, CU ran a reverse leading 20-3
    with only a minute or 2 left.  The play went for good yardage but
    didn't end up being a TD and the final ended up 20-3.  But I remember
    Dave Logan (who was doing the color for the game on TV) say "What comes
    around goes around."  The Buffs remembered those heavy thrashings all
    too well, and payback sure was sweet on OU's home turf.  I'm not saying
    CU or NU ran up the score all those years because the CU program was in
    shambles for quite a few years (witness losses to Drake 2 straight
    years), but CU sure enjoyed taking it to OU even if it was only by 17 
    points.
    
    
    Joe
 
       

    In response to my earlier assertion that the SWC is still a weak
    conference, which Doc contended so severely strained my credibility:
    
    Auburn 14, Texas 10
    Wyoming 22, Texas Tech 17
    Illinois 51, Houston 10
    
    ...and...
    
    
    Tulsa 35, Texas A&M 34
    
    Ouch!  Guess it's all up to Baylor now to preserve the conference pride...
    
    glenn
    

    Well,, I certainly hope HOUSTON learned a lesson - stop scheduling GOOD
    teams like Miami and Illinois.
    
    ya wanta schedule Miami - try the one in Ohio - better yet, see if
    Miami has a Fashion Institute or sumthang.  Illinois - that's a school
    that  produces REAL NFL quarterbacks like Tony Eason and Jeff George,
    not FAUX quarterbacks like Where's Andre and Klingon.  Ya wanna shedule
    a team in Illinois, try Chicago, or Illinois-Benedictine - ya know, a
    Div. II school - one you cain run the score up on.
    
    Now, its back to the SWC conference - look for  the mighty Cougars and
    Mr. Klinger to look like world beaters again.
    
    In fact, if Houston wants to stay in the Southwest, they can schedule
    games against such non-conference powers as Abilene Christian (they
    lost to Sacramento State 45-7 - Houston could scoure a 100 on em!), or 
    Sul Ross State, or Hardin-Simmons....
    
    JD

>>================================================================================
>>Note 5.468             The National Football League (NFL)             468 of 472
>>BSS::JCOTANCH                                        22 lines   3-SEP-1991 11:44
>>                  -< Football should be an emotional game.   >-
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>    
>>    Also, on Saturday afternoon, I caught the tail end of the East
>>    Carolina-Illinois game on ESPN.  Illinois was a big favorite and led at
>>    one point 38-10, but EC had just scored to make it 38-31 with about 2
>>    minutes left in the game.  EC tried an onside kick and recovered. 
>>    The EC players were ecstatic and jumping around and congratulating each
>>    other, but there was definitely no taunting involved.  
    
>    Wrong.  You, and the rest of the country, were misled by the boobs at
>    ESPN.  Just because it isn't on camera doesn't mean it didn't happen. 
>    Two officials threw their flags after seeing an ECU player make an
>    obscene gesture to the Illini bench.  The cameras were focused on the
>    celebration.
    
    
    I know, this note is a couple weeks old, but I just wanted to set the
    record straight.  David Perry, Big Ten supervisor of officials, said
    the taunting penalty against East Carolina in the Pirates' loss at
    Illinois was a bad call.  "Two (East Carolina players) exchanged a
    couple of high fives, that's all I saw," Perry said.  "After looking at
    the physical evidence, no one in their right mind could have called a
    penalty for taunting or excessive celebration."
    
    Joe
 
       

    I saw that also, they showed it from a different camera on the
    supposedly two players who were at fault, no taunting what so ever.
    I guess the people at ESPN aren't such boobs.
    
                                                    Dan

    I'd like to use this note to discuss the teams who will be in the race
    for a national championship.  There doesn't seem to be much activity
    in the College Football note, so I thought we should have a separate 
    one.
    
    Let's talk about the top 5 or 10 teams who have a legitimate shot at
    the championship.
    
    I'll start with the first reply.
    
    Pete

    Pete,
    
    I sure hope you didn't start this note to talk about the Washington
    Huskies!
    
    They have an easy schedule and are not deserving the title.  Also, I
    couldn't stand living here if they won it.  I'm sick of purple and dogs
    as it is!  ;-)
    
    JD

    My alma mater, the University of Washington, took a huge step toward
    a championship by whipping Nebraska in Lincoln, 36-21.  The Huskies
    outgained the Huskers 600+ to 300+ yards, and seemed to move the ball
    at will.  They gave up scores on two long plays, which resulted from
    the Huskies aggressive, gambling defense, and on a fumbled kick at the
    3 yard line.
    
    The Huskies may have the inside track because of their schedule.  They
    play, in addition to their Pac-10 schedule, Kansas St. and Dayton.
    The other contendors have much more difficult schedules, and have to
    play each other (Florida St. and Michigan this weekend, for example).
    
    I don't thing the Huskies are better than Miami, but given the weight
    the voters give to an unbeaten season (vs. strength of opposition),
    you have to give 'em an edge.  
    
    Pete

 Pete,
 
 You might as well beat the Christmas rush and denounce the Huskies
 No. 1 ranking and national title now while rates are cheap. 
 
 Bob Hunt

    I thought Ohio U was going to win the NCAA this year.  They tied a
    Central Michigan team that destroyed Michigan State.  Then they wipped
    the southern out of Tennessee Tech.  But Ol' Miss put those Bobcats
    right in their place this past weekend.  Gee, and we didn't even crack
    the top 10 during our ride of excellence. ;-)
    
    	--dan'l

    If you can't tell, my original note got moved by Mac from a new topic
    I started to discuss who's #1, and the prognosis for the top teams.
    
    He thought it was redundant to have a separate note, and he's probably
    right.
    
    As far as the Huskies go, if they finish undefeated, and Miami, Mich,
    and Fla St all have 1 loss, and the Huskies are voted in, I won't feel
    bad that they don't deserve it.  They deserved it back in '84 (?) when
    BYU was #1, even though the Huskies would have kicked their butts.
    
    Pete

    Mythical #1 title will be determined on New Years day in the
    Rose Bowl between Washington and Michigan.
    
    The Dawgs will win it 30 to 13.
    
    

    
    
    The National Champions will come from the Sugar Bowl!!!
    
    
       Tennessee 31       Miami 27
    

    Orange crushed in South Bend, 11/9. Be there and observe the massacre.
    
    MikeL
    

    I gots a request....
                   
    Can anybody give me Air Force's schedule for the next month????
    
    Figured that since I'm out here, might go catch a game if'n I gets the
    chance.
    
    amf
    
    JaKe
    

       Wish I could help Jake. The Glob used to put the college results and
    schedules in Tuesdays edition. I jist looked. Not in there.
                                   Denny

    Jake:
    
    Air Force @ Brigham Young 9/28/91
    
    Wyoming @ Air Force 10/5/91
    
    Air Force @ Navy 10/12/91
    
    Notre Dame @ Air Force 10/19/91  (Bet Tickets are next to impossible..)
    
    Texas-El Paso (UTEP) @ Air Force 10/26/91
    
    
    HTH
    
    JD

    JD
    
    Thanks.
    
    Best game for me to try and get tickets to will be the Wyoming game, I
    guess.
    
    
    amf
    
    JaKe
    

    My nexted question:
    
    Any of you Coloradoians able to tell me how to go about getting ticket
    for a game at the Air Farce Academy??????????????
    
    
    amf
    
    
    JaKe
    

    >>Pete,
    
    >>I sure hope you didn't start this note to talk about the Washington
    >>Huskies!
    
    >>They have an easy schedule and are not deserving the title.  Also, I
    >>couldn't stand living here if they won it.  I'm sick of purple and dogs
    >>as it is!  ;-)
    
    >>JD
    
    JD, the Dogs are at least as deserving as many past champs.  Geez, CU
    won last year after a couple of losses (sorry, Missouri WAS a loss),
    Brigham Young won a few years back with their weenie schedule.
    
    And, consider the plight of Seattle sports fans.  What do we have to
    cheer for?  The 14-straight-losing-seasons Mariners?  The never-win-
    anything Seahawks?  The perennially-underachieving Sonics?  The doormat
    UW basketball team?  
    
    Anyway, not to worry.  If this Husky team is like all others before it,
    they will lose to Oregon or USC or Arizona St. and it'll be all over.
    But, it'll be fun while it lasts.
    
    Pete  

    
    JaKe,
    
    	Try 472-1895.  That's the number for the ticket office.
    
    Claybone

    Jake,
    The ND game has been sold out for months, but you won't be here for
    that one anyway, right?  The WYO game on the 5th has just been moved to
    a 1:30 kickoff because ABC is picking it up as a regional game.  We're
    tailgatin' for that one and you're welcome to join us.  As for tickets, 
    Clay gave you the number or you could undoubtedly find cheaper tickets 
    outside the stadium before the game.  Last week for the SDSU game we even 
    had a few people offer us free tickets, but this game will probably be a 
    tougher ticket.
    
    
    Joe
    

    Regarding the strength of the Husky schedule.
    
    Do not forget that the Huskies dominated two strong teams- Stanford
    and Nebraska, on their home fields.  And the Huskies play Oregon,
    USC, Stanford.  

    Matt -
    
    Give me a break:
    
    they play one tough school, Nebraska.  And being down 21-9 in the 2nd
    half isn't what I call domination.  
    
    THe PAC-10 is a weak conference - something that is normal for the
    Western part of the country (WAC, SWC are woefully weak also).
    
    They schedule non-confernece powerhouses like Kansas State and Toledo.
    TOLEDO!
    
    Compare that to Michigan, which scheduled Notre Dame and Florida State
    as Non Conference games, along with boston college.  No comparison
    
    The Huskies are a sham, a fake, a FAUX top ten team.  I certainly hope
    they fall, just so I can read about the fall in the paper, and listen
    to the whining on the radio - they still whine about 1984, and
    remarkably - last year!  
    
    JD

    BTW - STRONG Stanford is 0-2.
    
    JD

    D,
    You gots to plan these thangs around college foosball 8;)
    
    Vols by 17 at the Shrine?
    You been dabblin' in Tennessee Sour Mash or Heelbeely Moonshine?
    Take off them Orange-colored glasses!
    
    MikeL
    

    JD,
    
    Grab the reigns, bud!  The Pac 10 is weak compared to whom?  Certainly
    not the Big 10.  Compare Rose Bowl results.
    
    The Huskies destroyed Nebraska, make no mistake.  600 yards to 300?
    The only reason the game was close until the 4th was Beano Bryant's
    fumble.  The only teams I think would beat the Huskies on a neutral
    field are Miami and Fla. State.
    
    As for Toledo or Dayton or whoever the hell it is being on the schedule, 
    wasn't it Florida State backing out of a date due to money?  The 
    Huskies had a hole in their schedule to fill at the last minute and 
    couldn't be picky.  I don't think scheduling Fla. St. and Nebraska 
    for non-conference games can be characterized as deliberately playing 
    a weak schedule.
    
    As for teams not choosing to play brutal schedules, whose fault is
    that?  I'd blame the pollsters who don't give nearly enough credit
    for quality of opponents.  Call it the BYU factor.  All you have to
    do is be the only undefeated team at the end of the year and you're
    national champs.
    
    I credit the Penn States, USCs, Miamis and Notre Dames, who despite
    this, continue to schedule good teams.
    
    Pete                      

    Pete,
    
    THe Pac10 is weak.  Yeah, one day a year they may beat the Big10, but 
    a lot of that can be chalked up to the "Bo" factor.
    
    USC and UCLA are mere shadows of their former selves.  Washington State
    and the Oregon schools are walkovers.  Arizona is a walkover.  Arizona
    State is a mere shadow of its former self.  California is a walkover.
    Stanford is having a down year - and has never really been a true 
    power.
    
    The Pac10 is really Washinton and 9 pretenders.  
    
    FWIW, Miami has a real cream puff schedule this year.
    
    With the schedule the Huskies have lined up for themselves, anything
    less then an undefeated season will be a monumental choke job.
    
    If they do win the national champeenship, the M's should leave town -
    cuz no one will care.  And then next spring we can get non stop
    coverage of spring practice (yee-hah).
    
    I must admit I think the ultimate yeear would be for the Huskies to be
    undefeated  and somehow get upset inthe Apple Cup by the Cougs.  The
    suicide rate would take a HUGE jump (pun intended).
    
    Once Penn State gets into the Big 10, they will win the Rose BOwl in 
    walkovers every year.
    
    JD

    re-1
    
    
      Pac-10 has won more National champ than any other conference in the
    country. Southwest conference is second.
    
    Cadzilla
    

    
    > Pac-10 has won more National champ than any other conference in the
    > country. Southwest conference is second.
    
    You must be talking gymnastics or something, not football.  Here's the
    breakdown of AP National Championships (I'll let others argue about
    split champeenships with UPI, CNN, et al):
    
    Independents	18
    Big-10		 9
    Big-8		 9
    SEC			 9
    SWC			 4
    Pac-10		 3
    AlmostCloseConf      2
    Wasn'tAlmostClose    1
                        --
                        55
    
    JD, I wouldn't call Miami's schedule quite "creampuff" this year.  Not
    with the traditional game against Florida State (there's another 
    potential NC game) and a tough one against Penn State.  Houston and
    Arkansas didn't work out as well as they could have, but there not
    really 'puffs either.
    
    glenn
    

    re-1
    
      I don't know were you got your numbers  Mine came from the local rag
    here in the Springs. It listed them by States
    
        1. Indiana  11 (Notre dame)
    
    	2. California 10 (Pac-10)
    
    	3. Texas  8 (SWC) 
    
      I would have to go back a look up the team breakdown for Cal and Texas.
    
    

    JD,       
    
    Too bad you weren't here the two years in a row that the Dogs only 
    had to beat the Cougars in the Apple Cup to go the the Rose Bowl and
    got whupped both times.  You would have loved it.  That was in about
    '86 and '87 I think.
    
    The Pac10 is down this year, no doubt.  And, I agree the Husky worship
    can get out of hand, but as a long-suffering Seattle sports fan, I'm
    not gonna let your fack-based obfuscation get in the way of my enjoying
    this season.  See ya at the Rose Bowl, JD!  U R TOO BLAM!!  8^P '''''.
                                                                     /\
                                                                    spit.
    
    Pete =8^).   

    Glenn -
    
    Mea Culpa - I missed Penn State on the Miami schedule.  That does make
    it better.
    
    RE PAC10 having won more champeenships -
    
    If you count up all sports, men and women - that's the case - and the
    PAC10 can count that to
    
    Track and field and Cross Country:
    
    USC, UCLA, Oregon, Washington St have all won champeenships in theses
    sports.  The Arizona's and USC have also won baseball champeenships -
    but remember, the 'zona's have only been in the PAC10 for a little 
    while.
    
    Stanford has alos won baseball, I think, plus gymnastics.
    
    JD

    Pete -
    
    Wasnt the Apple Cup a couple of years ago when they had the 'riot' at 
    the stadium - complete with mace and everythang!  It was great...
    
    Hey - if  the Huskies win it all, I'll buy ya a beer.
    
    JD

    re- .315
    		It might be just you, when ABC switched over from the
    Penn ST and BYU game, they switched to the Washington at Nebraska
    game two top ten teams still undefeated at the begining of the 4th
    quater with Nebraska ahead by a couple of points. Once they did switch
    over Washington did start dominating the game. Once I saw the games
    that were scheduled for that time slot, I was hoping we'd get that 
    game, because I don't anybody really thought BYU would be able to
    compete against Penn ST.
    
    								Dan

    In Colorado, we had the Wash-Neb game the whole time.

    The University Interscholastic League is considering punishment against
    the Brenham (Texas) football program after fans attacked Del Valle
    players last month.  10 people were indicted.  Four former Brenham
    students were sentenced to 10 years in prison after pleading guilty to
    aggravated assault.  The UIL will review the case Oct. 2.
    
    JD

    Since I was a terrible 0-2 last week I'll try and redeem myself.
                            
                            Jimbo's 1000 star locks
    take TENN -6.5 vs. Auburn and 
    Southern Mississippi +2 vs. LOUISVILLE.
    
    Tennessee will dominate this game against an inept Auburn team while
    Southern Miss. will beat Louisville by a touchdown.
    
                             Jimbo's 500 star semi-locks
    
    take Georgia Tech +8 vs. CLEMSON and
    OLE MISS -11.5 vs. Arkansas
    
    Ole miss by 30 and G. Tech. wins by a field goal
    
                             Jimbo's flip the coin special
    
    Take Boston College with the 27.
    
    Jimbo

Jimbo,

I like the picks. I'll toss a couple into the fray:

MICHIGAN ST -11 over Rutgers.
OKLAHOMA -13 over Va Tech.

A couple of blow outs. Michigan State wakes up and turns it into a
mismatch. Oklahoma won't be close from the start.

TTom

    Well it looks like I came in at 60% while TTom came in at 0%.  Tune
    in for this weeks winners!!!!
    
    Jimbo

    Perhaps this should go in the Wesleyan note?
    
    WPI defeated RPI this past Saturday to retain the Transit Trophy.

    At the end of a very long day on Saturday, I was at Nickerson Field on
    Saturday night for the University of Massachusetts at Boston University
    game.  Looks like the Minutemen have found a QB in Tony Williams,
    redshirt freshman from Randolph, NJ.  Ran the option very well, though
    he's not much of a passer.  BU had a 7-0 lead at the half and quite
    frankly was dominating.  We got a break to start the half when BU tried
    a squib kick that was fielded by one of the guys in the front line. 
    That was a major turnaround because we went down the field and scored,
    stopped BU on the next series, went and scored again and that was it. 
    We started really blowing BU off the ball at that point and dominated
    the line of scrimmage both ways.  The Marching Band dominated half time
    and post-game too.
    
    I expect this year's Yankee Conference champ to be either Delaware, New
    Hampshire or Villanova.  The big game of the season thus far takes
    place in Newark, Delaware this Saturday as UNH visits Fightin' Blue Hen
    country.  I don't expect us to win the conference this year nor do I
    expect us to beat Villanova towards the end of the season, but I certainly
    hope UNH comes into Amherst on November 23 with something riding on the
    outcome so they can choke against us again.
    
    It was a difficult day for UMass football on Saturday.  The wife of
    long-time head trainer Vic Keedy died last week and was buried on
    Saturday morning.  Vic is the man I worked for when I was in school and
    it was a tough day for me.  We were all remarking that his wife
    certainly knew how to time it because it was on the day of a night game
    so a lot of Vic's friends and former colleagues, including those
    associated with the football team now, could attend.  Under normal
    circumstances, they couldn't have.  Then, hearing about Mac's brother
    (Father Norm) dying really ruined the day.
    
    John

    I caught some Heisman update the other day and was surprised they
    didn't mention Amp Lee from FSU.  How come?  He's my frontrunner as far
    as I'm concerned...which isn't very far.
    
    	--dan'l

    > I caught some Heisman update the other day and was surprised they
    > didn't mention Amp Lee from FSU.  How come?  He's my frontrunner as far
    > as I'm concerned...which isn't very far.
    
    Amp outshone even Weldon as far as I was concerned.  This Heisman stuff
    seems to depend so much on whether you were one of the original
    candidates or not, as pushed by your own school in many cases (which at 
    FSU seems to be Weldon).
    
    Amp's quite a dancer.  Maybe the best way to defend him is to let him go 
    by you so you can pull him down from behind.  As the announcers said,
    it doesn't hardly look like he's moving, 'cause he's not going very
    fast, but then he's by you...
    
    glenn
    

 Also in the same vein Michigan keeps pushing Howard but every game I watch
 Powers is the man. Sure Howard makes some great plays but Powers just keeps
 on plug on and doing most of the work...

    On the subject of the college football polls that came up last week, I
    saw in yesterday's paper that those bozos who run the USA Today/CNN
    "Coaches' Poll" dropped Michigan to ninth, one spot below Notre Dame.
    You gotta be kidding me!  Okay, so Michigan got beat up pretty good by
    Florida State last weekend (they won't be the last good team to be so), 
    but what was that game I saw in Ann Arbor a few weeks ago?  Where are 
    these guys' heads?
    
    Again, at least the voters in the AP poll took maybe five minutes to
    think this one through.  They left Michigan at #7, with ND at #8.
    
    glenn
    

    Glenn,
    Don't make sense to me. Seems logical and correct that ND should be
    rated below Michigan. Yup, and Dan would've been screaming bloody
    murder about ND's "treacherous" backdoor climb up the polls. 
    But it would prove his duplicitous nature as he was stone cold silent
    last fall when Michigan catapulted ahead of ND in the polls following
    a Michigan win/ND loss.8^) Even though ND had beaten Michigan last year.
    So the polls are consistently baffling. Bring on the playoffs! 
    
    
    MikeL
    

    Here are this weeks winners.  I will go 5-0 or the rest of the college
    season is absolutely free. 8*)
    
    Steam Locks
    	G.Tech giving 2 to N.C. STATE (Wolfpack outclassed)
    	Ole Miss giving 4 to KENTUCKY (Kentucky to small to handle OLE MISS)
    Power Plays
    	PITT giving 12 to Maryland (PITT at home nuff said)
        ILLINOIS giving 15 to Minnesota (The gophers crawl into a hole)
    Flip of the coin special
    	MISSOURI giving 2 to Memphis State (Mizzou tough at home)
    
    Jimbo 

    Kansas getting 10.5 against Virginia.
    
    Joe

    Correct me if I'm recycling old news but...
    Read in some obscure paper (don't remember which one) that the Governor
    of Illinois has signed legislation making it illegal for the NCAA to
    impose any kind of sanctions or decree against a state institution
    for "alleged" infractions unless a public hearing has taken place.
    No backroom decisions. I believe it pertains to all universities
    or colleges in the state, not just public institutions. Can anyone
    validate this piece, embellish upon it, or invalidate it ?
    Opens up a lot of litigation. Lawyer-alert!
    
    MikeL
    

A few states have passed legislation requiring that due process be
followed for any actions - sactions, suspensions, cancellations, firings,
etc. - involving state employees like football and basketball coaches at
state universities.

This is one of the matters at the heart of the UNLV problem. The NCAA
ruled that UNLV must suspend Tarkanian. Nevada has a due process law that
says that they cannot due this unless due process was followed -
notification of charges and evidence, chance for hearing, appeal, etc.
The supreme court complicated this by ruling that the NCAA could do
whatever they wanted to member institutions since the schools voluntarily
joined the NCAA.

What seems to be happening is that we're headed for some show down
involving this issue, wherein the state will step in and attempt to make
NCAA show it's evidence with a chance to respond to this, etc. Dick
Shutlz, current NCAA Czar is trying to get something acceptable to all
parties, balancing out the various sides and issues.

The CFA came out of this type of impasse of how the NCAA runs the show.
That was basically over the rights to the TV money. If the NCAA hadn't
relented there would only be about 20 teams or so (most in 2 conferences,
the Big 10/11 and the PAC10). CFA was getting ready to walk and the NCAA
caved in, mostly because this was a more important issue than civil
rights, it was about MONEY.

TTom

    
    Good Luck Jimbo on your powerless picks...
    
    Heres 5 winners from the Best of the West Hotline:
    
      STANFORD +10 1/2 vs Notre Dame...it will be closer than most
      people think, look for a last second TD by ND to win the game.
    
      Clemson will dropkick GEORGIA give the 5 1/2 
    
      Baylor will keep the door shut on HOUSTON, take the Bears with 1
      they will win the game by the third period.
    
      Blowout Special..OHIO ST giving 23 to wisconsin, look for a 45-10
      game with Ohio St running it up....
    
      NORTHWESTERN +4 to win the game outright vs Purdue..
    
      Kevin

Anybody can pick the big games, but how about these gems:

AIR FORCE	4	wyoming	

I've been riding the Cowboys up and down and through the dust I think 
this looks like a winner. It wouldn't surprise me if they won the game. 
In any case, take the points.

TULANE		7	smu

Finally Tulane gets a Saturday night game that they might win. So far 
they've been beat up pretty bad and should be hungry for a win. Give the 
points.

colorado st	3	TEXAS-EL PASO

I like UTEP because (a) they're getting the points; (b) they're at home; 
and (c) they have a hyphen in their name. Take the points.

TTom

    - 1
    
    Anyone can pick the big games??????????????????????????Believev
    me Mr Haas...no one can pick any game.......................
    You tell me today a sure thing and I will put a "K" (thousand)
    on the game...any game between now and Sunday........its hard
    to play the game.......I'm a player
    
    Tom  "Dallas Cowboys are back"

Yo Cowboy Tom, I didn't say they could pick em *CORRECTLY*, now did I;-)

It would seem that the only sure thing is when the fix is in, Texas Tech
nowithstanding.

TTom

    TTom I only wish I knew when the fix was or is in...I've been on the
    wrong end too often........................
    
    
    Jimmy Johnson

    but what have you learned Tom???? Nothing!!!!!!! 8*) except don't
    bet on LSU basketball.........Where's your public picks Tom?????
    
    
    Jimbo

    
    Cowboy Tom, I'll put your picks in for you....
    
    There LOCKS....Red Sox to win the World Series...I've heard that
    from you every year...
    
    Dallas to Win the Super Bowl...
    
    Notre Dame will be Number 1...
    
    Now how else do you idolize....O' Roger Clemons will win the Cy..
    
    Good Luck Tom......

Tomorrow is the anniversary of the most lopsided game in college 
football history.

In 192x, Georgia Tech defeated Cumberland

222-0!

Cumberland gained postive yards on their first play of the game 
and NEVER moved the ball forward for the rest of the game.

daryll

    	Yet another shameful example of a team from the Almost Close
    Conference running it up against a cupcake opponent.  8^(
    
    				/Don

    
    	Re-1,
    
    	Yeah, back when Tech wasn't a member of the ACC..sounds real good!
    
    B.A.
    

I'm glad to see my streak continue. Just so's you don't have to wonder I
went the big oh-fer-three, picking Wyoming (at Air Force), Tulane (vs
SMU) and UTEP (vs Colo. St).

TTom

    I just saw this result in today's paper because it was a late Saturday
    game: Fresno State 94, New Mexico 17.  I knew New Mexico was bad, but 
    this is unbelievable.  Fresno State scored 49 points in the 2nd quarter
    and led 66-7 at halftime.  
    
    It looks like FSU just keeps getting better.  Noles ran up over 600
    yards in total offense against a Syracuse defense that was only giving
    up around 290 yards a game.  Weldon had another very good game.
    
    A couple good games this weekend: Penn State at Miami and Tennessee at
    Florida.
    
    
    Joe

    Fresno State, in an attempt to keep the score down, did not attempt a
    pass the whole second half - but still scored 4 touchdowns.
    
    JD

Question:

	Considering that in college football amount of points scored
	or TDs scored are not used in a tie-break fashion, should
	the NCAA adopt a mercy rule.

	It could be something like when Team A is up by some 
	insurmountable amount, should they stop the game...

	Or it could be like that special rule they use in the "all-star"
	Bowl games from time to time:  If Team A is down by 14 or more
	points, after they score they have the option to receive the
	kick again...


What do you all think?

'Saw

    
    Dumb question:  who won the late game between ND and Stanford Saturday?
    
    I was too busy chasin' womens on Sunday to hear the outcome.
    
    	--dan'l
    

I not a fan of running it up but I don't think there should be a rule
about this sort of thing. It does happen but it's not that common for a
team to score 90+ (or even 70+ points a games). It's even rarer that it's
done against a 1A school, which New Mexico is, at least on paper. In this
case, Fresno St is a 2A.

Schools that consistently do this are not the ones that compete for
conference and national championships so it just makes them look stupid.
Houston got a lot of flack last year about running it up and they lost to
about any decent team they played. It didn't buy them anything except
their QB set a slew of records and everyone commented on what a bunch of
bums they were.

TTom

    Fresno State is a I-A school and is in the Big West conference, but they
    will be joining the WAC next year.  New Mexico has also lost to UNLV
    this year, who is also in the Big West.  New Mexico is in the WAC btw.
    New Mexico's only win so far this year was over New Mexico State.
    
     
    Joe

    ND-42
    SU-26
    

    re .345
    
    A cleear cut case of running up the score !

    	Well Doc, being a Houston fan you should know all about running
    up the score so we'll defer to you on this one.
    
    				/Don

The problem this year is other teams drubbing the Cougars. Ya gotta luv
the pasting that Illinois put on them and the latest burial at home by
them Baylor Bears, 38-21.

Unfortunately for Houston, that there high tech run-it-up requires both
speed and talent and Houston looks to be lacking in both departments.
Klingler shoulda gone pro lasted year.

TTom

    Doc -
    
    I got it - pretty funny!
    
    JD

    
    How 'bout those Bearcats of Cincinnati running it up on poor little 
    Louisville.. to the tune of 30-7.
    
    

    re .355
    
    Thanks JD, Slasher fell for it hook, line and sinker ....
    
    re Coogs,
    
    The Cougars peaked with 1989 team under Jack Pardee. They had Andre
    Ware, Manny Hazard, AND most importantly, a good (VERY good) defense
    (ranked among the nation's leaders in a number of catagories). Klinger
    is as good as Ware, but the Cougars have lost a ton off the offensive
    line in the last two years, and people forget that Pardee's strength as
    a coach was on DEFENSE. And with he and Jim Eddy (defen. coor.) gone to
    the Oilers, the Cougars are hurtin' bad.
    
    Pity that nobody saw the UH team at their best because of probation,
    now, they'll have to take their lumps ....
    
    Doc

    
    	I gots a question.  How come Stanford goes by "Stanford 
    	Cardinal" instead of "Cardinals"?  Or did my local paper
    	misprint it about 10 times lately?
    
    	Claybroon

    Based on the color, not the bird...
    
    Like the Hahvud Crimson

I'm pretty fed up with college football this year. When I watch it (which hasn't
been much do to the great weather we've had) every single game is a blowout. 
Even Mrs. Metz has picked up on it. I see the Huskies crushing teams 50-0 and
every other big college school doing the same week after week.

When the ESPN scores get shown you're lucky to see 2 games decided by a 
touchdown or less. Unless somebody either puts in a playoff system or offers 
some reward based on strength of schedule I think I'll blow off the whole 
college season and just watch on new years day.

The regular season is a farce...

 Metz

    > Pity that nobody saw the UH team at their best because of probation,
    > now, they'll have to take their lumps ....
    
    Aw, who cares, Doc?  It's not like that team was Oklahoma 1973-4 or
    anything, who didn't lose once and won a national championship while 
    on probation.  Houston still lost to Texas A&M and Arkansas (?) in 
    the conference in 1989 and those teams weren't great by any stretch 
    of the imagination, either.
    
    Hell, Houston was a lot better under Yeoman in the 70s and early 80s
    than this latest incarnation.  Even the team that BC under Doug Flutie
    beat in the Cotton Bowl was better...
    
    glenn
    

    Metz -
    
    And it doesn't get any better:
    
    Here are "quality" opponents (teams ranked in the top 25) that the top
    teams (my picks...) play the rest of the year.  Washington's schedule,
    of course, is the biggest farce of them all!
    
    Washington:  California - somehow ranked #13.  Will get crushed.  They
    only other team with a_above .500 record is Arizona State.  Even if
    undefeated, will not 'earn' the title.
    
    florida State:  Still has to play Miami and Florida (#2 and #10).  Has
    already whupped Michigan and Syracuse.  A team deserving the title if
    they get it.
    
     Miami:  Plays #9 Penn State, #1 Fla. State.  But also has some
    cupcakes.
    
    Oklahoma:   Has #14 Nebraska.  Very easy schedule. Also has #25
    Colorado.  But that's it.  MOre of a FAUX than Washington.
    
    Baylor:  Plays #21 Texas A&M  Could go undeated.  Another FAUX.
    
    michigan:  Already played the tough part of schedule.  Last two games
    of season are agains #20 Illinois and #11 Ohis State.
    
    Notre Dame:  Plays #12 Pittsburgh, #9 Penn State and #4 Tennessee.
    
    Tennessee::  Plays #8 Notre Dame, #10 FLorida, #23 Mississippi
    
    Florida: Has #4 Tennessee, #24 Auburn, #1 Florida State, #22 Georgia
    
    So as you can see, only a couple of teams have real schedules.  The
    Florida teams, Tennesse and Notre Dame have tough schedules.
    
    Washington, Oklahoma and Baylor have jokes.
    
    JD

    Metz- The Dawgs have an easy schedule.  But, they are a worthy
    contender for #1.  Clearly the top 4 teams are Washington, Tennesee,
    Miami, and Florida State.  
    
    And do not forget, Florida State was schedule to play the Huskies
    this week-end.  But FS pulled out, against the wishes of Washington,
    and Toledo was scheduled in the open slot.  Don't blame the Huskies
    on this one.
    
    Matt the Mariner  
    

    I know that UDub has owned USC recently, but when do these two teams
    meet? And can anyone post USC's record and what they're sayin about 
    'em out West? Danke
    
    You hoid it hear first. If Tennessee ain't crushed by the Gators this
    weekend, they will no doubt be peeled,masticated,and then spit out on
    November 9 in South Bend. 
    
    MikeL
    
    

I'm not BLAMming any single team for the trend in college football to schedule
patsy upon patsy. I'm just disgusted with the trend in general. Even though
some of the top 5 teams still have games left with opponents ranked in the top
25 the talent disparity between a top 5 team and a 10-25 team is tremendous.

How many people actually expected Syracuse to come with in 14 points of Florida
St. last weekend? 

I'm just expressing my disgust at the whole trend and professing my lack of
interest in college football this season.

metz

PS- in fact I do think the Huskies are among the top 3 teams in the country. I 
     just wish that they could have the opportunity to demonstrate it more than
     1 game in 11. Let us both admit that their only tough game of the season
     was the one in Nebraska. Watching them crush a team like Arizona isn't even
     fun to watch. The talent level is so uneven that it isn't an enjoyable 
     athletic competition. I enjoyed watching the div-1aa games back east with
     less talent level more because they were usually evenly matched.

    If the Huskies had any gonads, they'd turn down the Rose Bowl and play
    a real team for the National Title on Jan. 1 - but instead, they'll
    play someone from the Big 10, that will be ranked somewhere between 8 -
    11 (unless some MAJOR upsets happen...)
    
    I did crack up after the Kansas win when Bruce King, a local sports
    geek, showed a N.Y. Times computer poll that had the Huskies Number 1
    (This poll didn't have Florida State in the top 10 - even though they
    had just CRUSHED Michigan...)   He was grinning from ear to ear.
    
    I think UDub will win the mythical - unless Miami or Florida State 
    stays unbeaten.  Cuz, even if the Dub goes undefeated, and Fla. State
    aor Miami has 1 loss, they Dawgs will get voted in, even if they aren't
    deserving (which they won't be).
    
    I still can't call them a super team cuz they  haven't played anybody.  
    How good is Nebraska?  they have a pretty easy schedule, and haven't
    played a good team other than Washington (The Huskers, BTW, exposed
    Arizona State's FAUX record...)
    
    JD

    -1
    Your Orange-colored glasses are as strong as my Blue/Gold ones.
    8^)
    However you are sadly mistaken in your zeal. Unlike me, of course.
    
    MikeL
    

    Jimbo Mckay has been under the weather this week so he called me and
    asked me to enter his weekly plays..they are
    Jimbos Top Picks;
    Missouri
    Houston
    
    Jimbos Middle of the Road Picks;
    Pittsburgh
    Illinois
    
    Jimbos Flip of the Coin Special Pick;
    Tennessee
    
    
    I hope everyone will wish Jimbo a speedy recovery.
    
    Tom

                     
    > And do not forget, Florida State was schedule to play the Huskies
    > this week-end.  But FS pulled out, against the wishes of Washington,
    > and Toledo was scheduled in the open slot.  Don't blame the Huskies
    > on this one.
    
    Chris Fowler reported on ESPN yesterday that this "pull-out" was the
    creation of the Washington media and talk shows.  Florida State did 
    pull out of a game with Washington in *1982*, but there never was a 
    scheduled game with FSU for 1991.  Toledo was scheduled straight up.  
    Washington is 47 point favorites, and can be blamed for this one.
    
    glenn
    

    Well I guess I had a bad week all around.  First I let Tom Garry
    make my picks for me and he goes 0-4-1, then he decides to enter them
    without stating that they were his picks.  My picks were Colorado,
    Arkansas, Florida, Illinois, and Notre Dame.
    
    Of course the above paragraph is all B.S. but as a wiseguy you have to
    stretch the truth just a bit.......
    
    So far for the year 6-8-1 not too terrific but this week stay tuned for
    my COLLEGE PLAY OF THE MONTH.  I am unbeatable with my college play of
    the month.  The last 57 College plays of the month have had a 56-1
    record.  That's right 56 and 1, and it's yours absolutely free here
    in the college football note.  Don't pay Kevin Duffy, don't sign up
    with the Colorado sports Exchange, take my advice you'll thank me
    on Sunday. 8*)
    
    Jimbo
    
    

How about that wimping call in the Miami-Penn St. game.  With a little over
a minute left on 4th an 10, A Miami Defensive back intercepts the ball
at the 1 or 2 yard line and his momentum carries him into the end-zone.

He starts to run laterally like he might try to run it back.  He gets 
close to the end zone line and actually crosses it (not by much but it
was very clear) and then decides to run out of the end-zone.  This
play was a safety and Penn S.t should have gotten the ball back now down 
by four.   I can only assume that the refs didn't see the player
cross the end-zone line before retreating to the end-zone and out
of bounds.  It was such a stupid play by the Miami player (first for
intercepting the ball and then thinking about running it out) that
it bothers me more that the correct ruling was missed.


With all that said, I don't think Penn St. would have scored and thus
won but it was a terrible call nonetheless.




                                                        ALan
 

    
    re: -1
    
    	I guess the question one has to ask is how long does the ref let
    the defensive play run around in the endzone until he determines that
    he never intended to run around in the endzone nor run the ball out
    of the endzone...  From where I sat, it sure looked like the Miami
    player wanted to return the INT.
    
    
    							bill..g.
    

    The national title is probably only a realistic goal for about 6 or 8
    teams right now.  Here's the latest AP poll:
    
    1. FSU
    2. Miami
    3. Washington
    4. Michigan
    5. ND
    6. Florida
    7. California
    8. Tennessee
    9. Nebraska
    10. Penn State
    
    Looking at the top 10, we can automatically eliminate a few right off
    the bat: Miami-FSU loser, especially because that game is late in the
    season; Tenn.-ND loser; California, just because I can't imagine them
    staying with the big boys and Wash. will kill 'em anyway; FSU-Florida
    loser; and Penn State, because they've got 2 losses.  There's quite a few 
    teams with 2 losses in the 2nd 10 but I won't worry about them right now.
    
    So after a few teams are eliminated, here's what's left in the title
    chase:
    
    Miami-FSU winner
    Washington
    Michigan
    UT-ND winner
    Florida-FSU winner (If FSU beats Miami)
    Oklahoma-Nebraska winner, if they finish the regular season with only 1
    loss. 
    
    The only teams that are in control of their destiny is Miami and FSU. 
    If the winner of that game doesn't lose any others and wins their bowl
    game it's case closed, although Washington could go undefeated also but
    wouldn't win the title.   
    
    If the Miami-FSU winner stumbles elsewhere or in their bowl, the
    Washington-Michigan (in the Rose Bowl) winner will be the national
    champ if these 2 win the rest of their regular season games.
    
    After these 4 teams, everyone else needs considerable help.  ND needs
    to have the Miami-FSU winner to lose along with Washington and
    Michigan.  It would be nice for the Irish if they could get matched up
    against the #1 team (Miami or FSU) in a bowl.
                   
    Florida will be hoping for FSU to beat Miami, and then the Gators would
    need to beat FSU.  The Gators will also be hoping for Tennessee to beat ND
    since they already beat the Vols.  And they need both Washington and
    Michigan to lose.
    
    Likewise, Tennessee will be hoping for a Miami win against FSU and
    then a FSU win over Florida.  The question is, will FSU drop below
    Tennessee with a loss to the Canes.  And the Vols also need the losses
    by Washington and Michigan.
    
    If the Oklahoma-Nebraska finishes the regular season with only 1 loss
    they could also be in the title hunt come New Year's Day but would need
    plenty of help.
    
    
    Joe

    
    > 	I guess the question one has to ask is how long does the ref let
    > the defensive play run around in the endzone until he determines that
    > he never intended to run around in the endzone nor run the ball out
    > of the endzone...  From where I sat, it sure looked like the Miami
    > player wanted to return the INT.
    
    He can run around back there all day long and get swarmed under by
    eleven men as long as he doesn't come out.  Once he comes out, he can't
    go back in, which is what the Miami player did.  I don't think that it
    would have made the difference in the game (there was maybe 40 seconds
    left and PSU would have had to score a touchdown anyway) and it would 
    have been a gift that Penn State didn't earn, but I agree that at least 
    if the officials had made the call it would have served as evidence in 
    the case against bonehaid, hotdogging play...
    
    Can't understand what Tony Sacca was doing on that last series of
    downs.  Sacca has been playing well, and if he could at all avoid the
    heavy rush (eight more sacks on Saturday) that his line puts him under 
    two dozen times a game he might be even better, but a solid drive was 
    aborted when Sacca started looking long instead of for first downs while 
    already well into Miami territory.  After avoiding a ferocious rush, he
    had clear running room for a first down on the fourth down play in
    which he threw the interception.  An exciting, well-played (much better
    than I expected), and satisfying game for Penn State in which a few 
    lapses killed them against the Canes playing in the Orange Bowl no less, 
    but frustrating nonetheless...
    
    Joe, you can count Oklahoma out of the national title picture (and
    probably Nebraska too).  After yet another choke against a weaker Texas 
    squad in which the Longhorns' only touchdown came on a fumble recovery 
    in the end zone and in which the Sooners missed three field goals (two 
    of them relative chip chots), there's no way they can pull off such a 
    fraud with the pollsters, considering the cupcake schedule.  I can't 
    believe that Gary Gibbs hasn't lost his head yet in Norman.  Those are
    *serious* bragging rights with Texas squandered away three years in a
    row now...  
    
    glenn
    
        

>    I can't 
>    believe that Gary Gibbs hasn't lost his head yet in Norman.  Those are
>    *serious* bragging rights with Texas squandered away three years in a
>    row now...  
   
    I was starting to think the same thing about Gibbs' job.  They had high
    expectations in Norman this year and if they don't win the Big 8 Gibbs
    will definitely be on the hot seat and may even be gone.
    
    I felt OU was playing a little less than impressive in their first 4
    games, but I still thought they'd beat Texas handily.
    
    
    Joe 
     
        

 Joe,  Nice scenerio in painting the total picture but the total picture
 is this. It'll be Miami against ND in the Fiesta Bowl for all the marbles.
 This is why they dropped the series. Chickenshit Lou knew there's no way
 in hell his deal with the DEBIL allows him to beat the 'Canes twice in one
 year but once is allowable so why not make in a high priced bowl for all
 the marbles....
     
 Nobody deserves it more than Bowden but history and the alignment with the
 All Choke Conference where Dean is responsible for all consistutes a_excellent
 loss for FSU somewhere along the line...

 mike

    Yawn,Mikey,Yawn. SOS. Lou had nothin to do with dropping Miami. In fact
    after last year's game, he said personally that he would like to see
    the game continued,but it was out of his hands. 8^)
    I knew youse jest bustin' em
    
    MikeL
    

>                  -< ND wants either FSU or Miami in Fiesta >-
    
    That's one thing I *don't* want to see happen if Miami or FSU is #1. 
    If ND doesn't get a shot at the top-ranked team they should be shut out
    of a shot at the mythical without help, which suits me just fine and
    dandy.  I would expect the Miami-FSU winner to opt for the Orange Bowl.
    
    Joe

    Why? So Miami and/or FSU cain play someone from the Big 8 to
    arguably take on a team rated from11-20? Seems like an easy way out
    this year. 
    IMNSHO, I think it's a far reach for ND to be in a position to end up 
    at #1. Through all your iteration,Joe, too many things have to
    happen. ND might be in a position if they beat USC,Tenn, and PSU and
    hope for several other possibilities. Possible? maybe, Probable?
    doubt it. I'm a looking to nexted year when most of the Irish starters
    return. And when the Irish d has a year of seasoning behind 'em
    
    MikeL
    

 Why would FSU/Miami want to go to Orange Bowl? The Fiesta against ND would
 be a bonaza from both a $$$$$$$$$$ and recruiting standpoint. The only
 monkey wrench I see is SoCal laying waste to ND finally!!!!!!!!!

 aw Mike your just yawning cause you've heard the same message from Lou for
 so long.....after all he never ever has the talent to compete with powers
 like FSU/Miami now does he???

 ;^)

 mike

    I just think Miami or FSU would like to go to the Orange because they
    could stay close to home and make it easier for their fans to get
    there.  However, the Orange doesn't like to invite Miami because they
    don't bring in much out-of-town money.  And I'm not sure about this, but 
    I believe the Orange pays more than the Fiesta.  Also, don't count out the 
    Miami/FSU winner going to the Sugar, especially if Florida wins the rest 
    of their games.  
    
    The way things are going the only matchup between #1 and #2 will be
    Nov. 16th in Tallahassee and not in the bowls with Washington and
    Michigan locked into the Ro$e.  And you know the media will be licking
    their chops about a possible Miami-ND matchup in a bowl. 
    
    
    Joe
    

    fellow college football fans I'm off to a conference for the rest of
    the week so here's this weeks winners. 
    
    Jimbo's college game of the month (56-1 record over the last 10 years)
    	take Rutgers +23 vs. a beat up PENN STATE 
    
    Jimbo's Rock Solid Underdog Winners - Each of these underdogs will win
    the game outright (but take the points just in case...)
    
    	take Tenn +2.5 vs. BAMA
    	take Illini +4 vs. IOWA 
    	take Colorado +3.5 vs. OKLAHOMA
    
    Jimbo's flip of the coin special (2-1 record this year, 110-2 over the
    last ten years)
    
    	take Indiana +19 vs. MICHIGAN
    
    Good luck and may your man not go under this week after you pound him
    with these five selections. 8*)
    
    Jimbo

    Another rotten day for the Minutemen in a game against the team that
    ranks right up there with Boston College on the "Hendry Pond Scum"
    meter, a 26-21 loss to Connecticut down at Storrs (which was actually
    Storr until they built the second one), in the shadow of Gampel
    Pavillion, a/k/a the Conn Dome.
    
    Not much good to say about this one.  When you fumble inside the
    opponents 5, throw an interception for a TD and have 2-3 other
    turnovers inside the opponent 20, you don't deserve to win.  The game
    wasn't as close as the score indicated since UConn had a 26-14 lead
    late, we scored and recovered an onside kick and couldn't do anything
    with it.
    
    Off-week this week and then we play Northeastern at Foxboro.  We can
    only realistically expect to beat Northeastern and Richmond in our 4
    remaining games.  We will probably get clobbered down at Villanova on
    November 16.  With Delaware and Villanova both being 4-1 after
    Delaware's 38-28 win over Nova this past Saturday, UNH has beaten
    Delaware already and plays Villanova the week before we do, we've got
    UNH right where we want them, to come into Amherst for the last game of
    the season with the Yankee Conference title riding on it so UNH can
    pull off their usual choke job.
    
    John

John,

Please note that while I stripped naked, rubbed myself with bear grease,
and danced naked around the living room after reading the score
in Sunday's paper, I didn't have the heart to come in here and gloat 8^)


Nice to see UCONN win a game for a change.  They've pretty much sipped
through a straw this season......


'Saw

    Actually, both UMass and UConn sip canal water through a straw thised
    year and the game on Saturday reflected it.  The only salvation was
    being able to listen to West Virginia break Boston College's heart.
    
    UM is 2-5 and UC is 2-4.
    
    John

    I'll bet BC is now wishing they didn't take HC off the schedule.  Then
    again, they might have their hands full playing the red hot Crusaders.

    Hendry - them a_fightign woids!  The Minuteggs don't stand a chance
    against the might Huskies of Northeastern, even if the ZooMass folks
    bring the Clemson refs!
    
    JD

    
    
    Well, this past weekend, Washington got loads of help from the Clemson
    refs in beating California.  On Washington's second touchdown, there
    were two obvious major penalties - a leg whip and holding, but the refs
    kept the hankies in the pocket.  Kudos to the TV team for pointing out
    this major oversight by the Clemson refs.  Lasted year, we have
    Colorado getting a piece of a tainted title due to the 5 down game vs.
    Missouri, this year, do we get another tainted titlest in the Huskies??
    
    Of course, the local papers and newscasts out here never mentioned the
    blown call.  
    
    If the Huskies struggled against Cal, as they did, there is no doubt
    whatsoever that they would get absolutely destroyed by FSU, Miami, and
    probably Florida and N.D and Michigan.  This is an overrated team
    playing a cream puff schedule, which will probably win the national
    title, or be in the hunt, due to the creampuff schedule.
    
    JD

    Actually, the NU game does scare me.  We should win but NU has had a
    couple of games where they've played really well where we've only
    played one really good game against a good team, the loss to Holy
    Cross.  Every other game we've played, including the wins over BU and
    Maine, we've looked bad and neither of them is any good either.  The
    losses to URI and UConn were both dreadful.
    
    As far as playing BC goes, Holy Cross might have given them a close
    game last year and this year.  We might have given them a close game
    last year but not this year.  Regardless of whatever the year is, our
    marching band would make theirs look like a high school band.
    
    John

    JD-  Relax a little on the Huskies.  The Dawgs did beat two Top-10
    teams on the road.  The Huskies outplayed Cal- turnovers, penalties,
    and missed field goals kept the score close.  
    
    Matt the Mariner and Twins fan

    Matt
    
    Nebraska's schedule has been easier than the Huskies.  I don't consider
    them Top 10 material.  FWIW, Saragin has them 12th - heck, I'd rate Cal
    over them.  
    
    YEah, Huskies made lots of mistakes - because they finally plaed a
    decent team, instead of the cupcakes they have been playing.
    
    If they don't win the National Title, it will be the biggest choke of
    all.  The only way they lose a game is in the Rose Bowl.  A possibility
    if Michigan is there.  Other than that, they should go undeated.  Of
    course, any of  the Big 3 Florida schools would be undeated playing
    Washington's schedule too.  
    
    JD

    
    I really don't believe that Holy Cross could hang with this year's
    BC team.  I know you guys like to dump on them and they probably
    deserve it, but they've actually played pretty good football all
    season long.  They're chokers in the games they should win, but
    I don't believe that right now it's for a lack of talent or ability 
    (by BC's standards, of course).
    
    glenn
    
      

    I would have to consider myself among you "BC Bigget's" [sic], mainly
    cause of the media in this town. I mean how can you take a team
    seriously that loses to "In-Bred Jed U?" (TM)

    JD,
    
    Since you're experiencing an understandable over-hyped Husky backlash, 
    I'll take all of your shots at the Dawgs with a grain of salt.
    
    Face it, the Huskies outplayed Cal by a tremendous amount.  They missed
    a TD when Hobert went out after he got shook up on a play and Brunnell
    promptly fumbled the snap.  They had to settle for a FG.  They had the
    ball 4 times inside the Cal 15 and came away with 3 points.  Yeah, they
    screwed up by not scoring more, but it was an uncharacteristic plethora
    of penalties that stopped them.   The Huskies are also suffering from
    an inept, albeit injured, FG kicker who missed 2 relatively short ones.
    
    Cal played about as well as they could, the Huskies had a season's
    worth of boners, and they still beat the #7 team on the road.
    
    Isn't it time to fall back on the old "but Nebraska and Cal weren't 
    worthy of their rankings" argument? 8^).  I don't think anyone who has
    seen Washington play would deny that they are one of the 3 or 4 best
    teams in the country.
    
    Pete
    

    Pete -
    
    Methinks you are just a star struck Husky Alum ;-)
    
    Personally, I think they probably deserve about a #5 or #6 ranking. 
    Nebraska and Cal are weak teams - Top 15, but not where they were
    ranked.  Cal moved up in the polls just so  the Husky/Cal game could be
    huped more as a showdown.  They should have been about #12 or 13 coming
    in.  Nebraska was over ranked - mostly on name recognition.  They
    barely beat Kansas this week.
    
    I'd say the Huskies are no where near the talent level of the Florida
    teams.  Closer to say Michigan or Notre Dame.   But, its tough to tell
    given they are in the easy Pac10.
    
    I'll say it again - they have been handed the national title on a
    platter.  The only way they lose it is if FSU or Miami goes undefeated,
    or if the Huskies choke against a creampuff or blow the Rose Bowl.
    
    All they have to do is sit back and hope the real top ranked teams beat
    each other...
    
    JD

I read a good quote from Huskie QB Billy-Joe Hobert (quite a name for a 
non-southerner, eh?) the other day....

"we should blow off the Rose Bowl and try to play the top ranked team in
whatever bowl we can. I don't care if we have to go on probation for a year
after it. We should play the highest ranked team we can on New Years day."

I must say I agree with his attitude. 

Pete,

 The huskies didn't have all the breaks go against them. They recovered 4 of
their own fumbles against Cal. What killed them was the ton of offensive 
penalties they committed. 

 They deserve to be in the top 5. I do wish they could have a chance to play 
for #1 this year instead of coasting to the Rose Bowl....

Neither tarnished by Hype or a star struck Alum,

Metz

    How about them Huskies...them UCONN Huskies!!!!! Mr. Hendry 8*)
    I believe UCONN's 4 losses were to teams that before last week
    had a 20-2 record nothing to be too ashamed of.
    
    Now for the real scoop last weeks results!
    
    Last week I was 4-1 against the number making me 10-9-1
    overall for the season, but enough of the truth and lets get on
    with the hype!!!
    
    As I told you I am unbeatable in my college game of the month which
    had Rutgers easily covering against a "down" Penn State squad.  I
    am now 83-1 on my college game of the month selection.  I also gave you
    my flip of the coin special which had Indiana outclassing the
    Wolverines, making me 3-1 for the year and 132-2 overall.  My underdog
    specials were also 2-1 with Tennessee leaving me high and dry.
    
    Stay tuned this week for my "INSTANT RENT MONEY" selection.  I have
    paid the rent 34 consecutive months and this month will not be
    any different.  I own the last weekend of each month and you can too.
    
    Jimbo

    Hey JD!  How about the Canes schedule?  You go on and on and on and on
    about the Huskies (UW version) 'cream-puff' schedule and on and on and
    on and on about the travesty of the Huskies winning the title.  And
    you maintain Miami would kill the Dawgs.  Yet, look at Miami's schedule,
    todate, and it is the weaker.  Miami has one real test - Florida,
    coming.  That's it.
    
    JD, to maintain that Miami is the superior team, based upon the
    strength of their respective opponents, is contrived and meritless.
    
    
    
    

    Matt -
    
    I have said Miami has a weak schedule - but at least they play two
    legitamate top 10 teams in Penn State and FSU.  Those two are vastly
    superior to either Nebraska or California.
    
    jd

    
     I find myself in the unsusual position of agreeing with JD. The
    level of talent at Miami and FSu is vastly superior to that of
    Washington and the rest of the country for that matter. For those 
    that disagree ask yourself one question, how many Huskies' players 
    could start for either Florida team ?

    JD- This problem exists, in your mind, the only 'legitimate' Top 10 
    ranking is yours, the JD Absolute Truth Top Ten Poll.  If one ignores 
    your poll and considers other polls: USA Today, NY Times, AP, and UPI; 
    the Huskies have played two top ten teams and both were road wins for 
    the Huskies.  
    
    Also, last week's USA Today poll ranked the Huskies opponents stronger
    than the Canes.  I am sure, the JD Absolute Poll tells a different
    story.
    
     
    

    Regarding the question, which teams have the top talent, the best
    measure is where players will be drafted.  And the Dawgs will be
    well represented here.  As an example, the number one draft pick 
    in 1992, according to this weeks Sports Illustrated, will be Steve
    Emtmann, should he decide to forgo his senior year.  
    
    Look at the rags (Henrich's Review, etc.) and you will see why the
    pro scouts are flocking to Seattle.  JD, how do you rate the draft
    picks?
    
    
    
    
    
    

    M,att -
    
    I'm voicing an opinion.  If you take it to mean absolute truth, then,
    excuse the language, but you are foolish.  I still found it fishy that
    Cal moved up in the poll a bunch of spots before the hyped 'showdown'
    with Washington - much easier to hype a #3 - # 8 or so matchuyyp then
    one between #3 and #12 or so.
    
    Once Miami plays FSU, their strength of schedule will go over the
    Huskies.   Long before this season, I've said Saragin's poll and
    rankins I find useless.    And, I think in the Air Force note, I
    pointed out the weakness of Miami's schedule.   The New York Times poll
    has to be ajoke.  They didnt' even have FSU ranked in teh 10 a few
    weeks ago -  you figure it out.  FSU beat Michigan and wasn't in the
    top 10, the Huskies beat a sorry Kansas State team and get pushed up?
    
    Why - because of the score.  I doubt Washington could score 51 points
    against any top 10 team...  (my opinion).
    
    So, if I rate Miami and Washington's schedule's as even, I'd still pick
    Miami over the Huskies - especially if they beat FSU.   (Even so, FSU,
    Michigan, N.D. and Florida all had tougher schedules than the Canes or
    the Dogs.)
    
    And like I've said, Matt - this national title is Washington's to lose.
    Easy schedule, and a 'home' game at the Rose Bowl (gotta admit Pasadena
    is a little closer to Seattle than Ann Arbor - and right in the middle
    of PAC10 territory...)
    
    As for the draft picks - I don't care about it.  Emtmann is good, no
    doubt about it.  Best player on the team.  Washington has produced some
    fine players such as Erik Howard.
    
    I think its funny the amount of "Purple Storm" and Husky fever is
    around this area.  Heck, even the tres chic clothing outlets are
    boasting about 'Husky Fashions' - really is funny to me to see all
    these folks with "Dawgs" paraphenalia on...
    
    JD

	JD's TOP TEN

	1. Notre Dame
	2. Wesleyan
	3. Wesleyan Baptist
	4. Wesleyan International
	5. Wesleyan Technical
	6. South Wesleyan
	7. North Wesleyan
	8. East Wesleyan
	9. West Wesleyan
       10. Northeastern

       You left out BC Slasher.
                                      Denny

    Why don't Miami and the Florida Gators ever play each other? which 
    school is at fault here, one of them must have ill feelings towards
    the other. They're always talking about the championship for state
    of Florida, to me it's Florida St because they play both Miami and
    Florida every year, it kind of reminds me of the way Louisville and
    Kentucky use to be in basketball, but wasn't it Kentucky's coach who
    didn't want the rivarly.
    
    

    Mac -
    
    Hey, I don't think the Huskies are deserving - but if they go
    undefeated (and are the only that are undefeated) and beat Michigan in
    the Rose Bowl - then I wouldn't argue about them being #1.
    
    Never been a Washington fan anyway - and it would be easy for me to
    jump on the bandwagon and root for them.  I do get a kick out of alll
    the hype, and the wierd ways folks act.  It would be pretty funny if
    they lost to Michigan in the Rose BOwl, just so I could go around town
    whistling the Michigan fight song ;-0
    
    Heck, I'd *love* to see either Washington/FSU or /Miami or /Notre Dame
    on New Year's day.  I rarely watch the Rose Bowel.  Neither conference
    excites me - unless USC is there - then I can watch their cheerleaders!
    
    JD

    
    /Don -
    
    HAHAHA too funny.
    
    Excetp Wofford is up there.  And check it out - USA Today has a story
    on Wofford's QB!!
    
    JD

    Florida and Miami used to play regularly.  Florida dropped them because
    of growing SEC commitments.
    
    John

    JD- Eric Howard is a WSU Cougar, not a Husky, grad.  He and Millard
    were a tough twosome for the Cougs.
    
    

    Matt -
    
    Really?  I have a Giants publications that had him listed as Udub.
    
    Anyway, any school that gave the world Hugh Mcenelly (spelling is
    wrong, i know) can't be all bad.  ;-)
    
    Just remember, that most of the time I'm merely pulling Huskie's fans
    legs....
    
    Other than Emtman - who are the Dawgs expected to go high in the draft?
    
    
    JD

    Yup.  Howard and Millard went to Washington State.  Hugh McElhenny went
    to Washington, played for the Niners, Vikings, Giants and Lions and
    made the Hall of Fame in 1970.
    
    John

    Here we go folks, this weeks top rated selections.  
    
    Jimbo's INSTANT RENT MONEY SPECIAL
    
    	take Boston College -6 vs ARMY (look for a blowout)
    
    Jimbo's Beat up on the overachiever's selections
    
    	take AUBURN -6.5 vs Miss St.
    	take ND -13 vs. So. Cal.
    	take So Miss -16 vs. CINCI
    
    Jimbo's flip of the coin special (3-1 this year)
    
    	take RUTGERS +12.5 vs SorryExcuse
    
    Good Luck
    
    Jimbo
    
    
     

    re: a few ago about how many Huskies could start for Miami and FSU
    
    I really don't know how you can rate teams that don't have many (or
    any) common opponents.  To say that not many Husky players could 
    start at FSU or Miami is pure speculation at best.  The Huskies have
    many, many players in the NFL, including almost all of their QBs
    from the past decade or so.  Off the top of my head, they are
    (including those that played in the NFL but don't now): Moon, Chandler,
    Flick, Millen and Pelleur.  I'm probably forgetting one or two.
    
    JD, I agree with you 100% on one thing.  I can't stomach the people who
    wear those hideous purple and gold clothes to the game.  It's a bit out
    of control.  The worst is when the husband and wife dress exactly
    alike.  RRRRRRRRAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLPPPPPPPPHHHHHHHHHH!
    
    Pete

    Well it looks like I paid the rent thanks to BC and then was pounded
    by my four other selections.  Rutgers let me down, they should have won
    the game.  For the week 1-4 for the season 11-13-1.  Stay tuned
    this week for my BIG EIGHT GAME OF THE YEAR.  I am 0-10 in this
    selection the last ten years so I'm DUE and so are the Cornhuskers!!!
    
    Jimbo

    After watching ASU fumble another game away to UCLA this weekend, I
    think their head coach just drew another nail for his coffin.  He's way
    too conservative for this school's alumni to handle, plus he has never
    beaten the interstate rival.
    
    I was not impressed with UCLA at all.  No running game and only 1
    decent receiver.  ASU fumbled once on the goal line and also fumbled on
    their winning drive at the UCLA 30 yard line with 2 minutes left.  They
    moved the ball fairly well against them.
    
    ASU now goes to Seattle this week to have the Huskies clean their
    clocks for them.
    
    Mike

    Mike,
    
    Did ASU lose to Arizona this year?  I hope not.  I went to the Arizona-
    Washington game and haven't seen such an inept team all year (except
    Toledo).  I'm assuming Arizona and ASU play the last game of the year,
    like UW-WSU.  Don't worry.  From what I've seen, ASU will pound 'em.
    
    This weekend's game with UW might not be as one-sided as you think.
    The Huskies have always had trouble with ASU.  In fact, I think a game
    a few years back when ASU beat Washington with vastly superior team
    speed convinced Don James to quit recruiting big, plodding "athletes".
    He started putting a premium on speed rather than size.  That's when
    the program turned around from the mediocrity of the mid-late '80s.
    
    The Dogs haven't looked too good the past couple of weeks.  They are 
    having a very difficult time scoring inside the opponent's 30.  Some
    attribute it to them not being able to get up for a long line of
    mediocre opponents.  Whatever the problem, they'd better fix it quick,
    before they play USC.
    
    Pete  

    
    
    
    
    
    
    This is the week I've been waiting for folks.  You've heard of BIG 
    MONDAY, well this week is Jimbo's BIG WEEK.  
    
    BIG EIGHT GAME OF THE YEAR
    	take Nebraska +3 vs COLORADO - Huskers win by 8
    
    BIG EIGHT GAME OF THE MONTH
    	take Kansas St. +21 vs. OKLAHOMA
    
    BIG TEN GAME OF THE WEEK
    	take Iowa +1 vs. OHIO STATE - Iowa wins by 10
    
    BIG TEN GAME EARLY GAME OF THE DAY
    	take Minnesota +18 vs. INDIANA - we're hoping for rain in this one
    
    BIG EAST FLIP OF THE COIN SPECIAL
    
    	Take Pitt -3.5 vs. BC - I know BC has been good to me but you can
    				bank on Pitt covering easily.
    
    Good Luck and I hope everyone has a BIG WEEK.
    
    Jimbo

    For some overseas Digital employees, I have begun sending out updates
    on Penn State Football. If you are in a Nittany Lion deprived area of
    the world and would like to be included, please send me mail and I will
    add you to the distribution list.
    
    Dennis
     

    In the late stages of BYWho's blowout of CSU last night the announcers
    got talking about the bowl picture.  I heard something from Ron
    Franklin (who is very knowledgable about college football) I like
    *alot*.  While Corso was saying he thinks the FSU-Miami winner will
    duck ND, Franklin disagreed all the way.  Franklin said that ND really
    isn't that deep with a couple D-linemen out, plus they didn't match up
    well with FSU.  But I'm just hoping that Michigan and Washington can
    keep winning until the Rose Bowl so the winner there should be national
    champ by all means just in case the Miami-FSU winner should stumble.
    
    Here is ESPN's projected major bowl lineup:
    
    Orange: NU-CU-winner vs. Miami-FSU loser
    Sugar: Florida vs. Cal or Penn State
    Fiesta or Blockbuster: FSU-Miami winner vs. Notre Dame
    Cotton: Alabama vs. A&M or Arkansas (who really cares)
    
    The Blockbuster is talking about upping their payout to attract the
    Miami-FSU winner.  If the Blockbuster payout meets or exceeds the
    Fiesta payout, the FSU-Miami winner would undoubtedly prefer the
    Blockbuster.  ND would prefer the Fiesta, but the Miami-FSU winner
    would be calling the shots so it wouldn't be ND's choice (I love it!!!)
     
    All this looked bright and jolly on TV last night, but there's many
    what-ifs I can't help but think about:
    
    - What if ND loses to Tennessee and/or PSU?  Now who is the Miami/FSU
    winner's opponent?  Florida in the Sugar would be a good bet if it's
    Miami.
    
    - What if FSU beats Miami but then loses to Florida?  This could be the
    biggest wrench because the bowl lineups become official Nov. 17th and
    FSU doesn't play Florida until Nov. 30th.
    
    - Does the Miami-FSU loser drop below ND?
    
    I'm not gonna predict things down to a tee, but here's basically what I
    think will happen: ND will lose to either PSU or UT; Washington and
    Michigan will win the rest of their regualar season games.  It will
    come down to this: the FSU/Miami winner will be able to win it all in
    their bowl game; if they stumble the Rose winner is national champ.
    
    One other thing: The NU-CU winner will be mincemeat in the Orange if
    they play Miami or FSU.
    
    
    Joe

    re .423
    
    This morning's Globe had an excellent point, after shelling out
    all that dough to ND, NBC ain't gonna be to happy if the Irish 
    are playing on CBS or ABC on New Year's Day.  How much this affects
    ND's decison making is anyone's guess.
    

                 
    Hey, I just noticed this, but how come Washington isn't playing
    UCLA this year?  I assume that it's the normal rotation, but this
    kinda stinks considering the Huskies choked away their title hopes
    against the Bruins last season and would have to go to LA for 
    revenge in this grudge match.  Plus, down as they might be, UCLA is 
    probably the third-best team in the conference.  I think they're a 
    little underrated, too.  Do we have an asterisk on our hands out
    there in Pac-10 land?
                      
    Why should Notre Dame care what network they'd be playing on?  They
    signed a longterm contract with NBC for the regular season, period.
    Business is business.
    
    The bigger question is if the Blockbuster outbids the Fiesta, what
    happened to everyone's wonderful bowl alliance, the solution to
    all the national championship problems?  Aren't Notre Dame (ND 
    Conference), Miami (Big East), and Florida State (ACC-to-be) committed
    to the "Alliance"?  Where did this Blockbuster thing emerge from?
    
    glenn
    

                      
>    Why should Notre Dame care what network they'd be playing on?  They
>    signed a longterm contract with NBC for the regular season, period.
>    Business is business.
    
    Probably because of the point that was brought up in .424.  Also, FSU
    or (especially) Miami would have a big home-field advantage at the
    Blockbuster.  Another thing I read yesterday was that the Blockbuster
    was thinking of moving the game to Jan. 2nd.
    
 >   The bigger question is if the Blockbuster outbids the Fiesta, what
 >   happened to everyone's wonderful bowl alliance, the solution to
 >   all the national championship problems?  Aren't Notre Dame (ND 
 >   Conference), Miami (Big East), and Florida State (ACC-to-be) committed
 >   to the "Alliance"?  Where did this Blockbuster thing emerge from?
    
    That doesn't start for another year or two.
    
    
    Joe  

    >>Hey, I just noticed this, but how come Washington isn't playing
    >>UCLA this year?  I assume that it's the normal rotation, but this
    
    Just luck of the draw.  Each Pac-10 team skips one conference team
    each season.  Until Arizona and ASU joined, they all played each 
    other every year.
    
    I don't know if it will taint UW's national championship, assuming
    they win it.  I do know it won't taint it nearly as much as CU's
    bogus 5th down win tainted theirs 8^).
    
    Pete

    On a reasonably nice fall afternoon before not too many fans, the
    University of Massachusetts evened its record at 4-4 by defeating
    Northeastern 27-12.  The game was played at Foxboro before not-too-many
    fans.  Northeastern came out pumped and took an early 6-0 lead.  They
    went for 2 because the kicker was one of 4 players suspended for this
    game by head coach Barry Gallup.  UM started to roll a little bit and
    took a 10-6 lead right before the half.  Early in the second half, NU
    went down the field, scored and missed a 2 point conversion to take a
    12-10 lead.  The Minutemen dominated the rest of the way.  Senior RB
    Jerome Bledsoe had a career day - 28 carries for 195 yards and TD, and
    went over 1000 yards for the season.
    
    Under previous head coach Paul Pawlak, NU was a wishbone team, big and
    slow.  Gallup has opened up the offense quite a bit and trying to get
    the players to lose some weight and improve their speed.  It's working
    but it's not quite there.  They wear all-black uniforms - black helmets
    (with a husky paw on them), black jerseys, black pants and black shoes.
    
    It was nice to be at a game in the press box in an official capacity (I
    was the only Patriots representative there) and be able to sort of
    relax and enjoy the game without the pressure I'm usually under.
    
    John

    RE: ASU vs. Huskies

    It's a shame ASU's special team crew gave Washington a 21-0 lead before
    people could get from their boats on Lake Washington to their seats in
    the stadium ;-)

    The locals have started a petition to get Frank Kush back in the head
    coach's position.  He's the one that put ASU's football program on the
    map, and it will take a disciplinarian like him to get some respect back.
    Marmie is too apathetic and the players seem to be very under-prepared.

    Mike

    The local paper has had two articles in the last few days proclaiming
    why the Huskies are the bested team in the nation.  Too funny.  Nothing
    to back the claim up, 'cept pointing to lopsided victories over nothing
    opponents.  
    
    As I predicted, however, unless FSU beats Miami, UDub will be the
    national title champeen.  
    
    One article said that if (If and BUT were used quite frequently in both
    articles) the Huskies had beat UCLA last year, they'd be defending
    national champs and on the way to title #2. 
    
    JD

    
>    As I predicted, however, unless FSU beats Miami, UDub will be the
>    national title champeen.  
    
    So what you're saying JD is that if Miami beats FSU then Washington and
    not Miami would move into the top spot?  I don't know, it will probably
    be close but I would think Miami would move into the top spot after
    beating a team that has been at #1 since preseason.  Washington has
    caught Miami in this week's poll as both teams are now tied for the #2
    spot - it will be interesting and crucial who moves into the #2 spot in
    the next 2 weeks leading up to the Miami-FSU showdown.
    
>    One article said that if (If and BUT were used quite frequently in both
>    articles) the Huskies had beat UCLA last year, they'd be defending
>    national champs and on the way to title #2. 
    
    I read an article in last week's Sporting News which said the exact
    same thing.  Actually, I think it was written by a writer from the
    Seattle area and is probably the same guy.  I'll check his name
    tonight.  Anyway, I'm not sure I buy that one.  What they're saying is
    that Washington would've been #1 entering this season (and therefore
    would still be #1) because they were the defending national champs and
    returned alot of players.  But I'm not so sure they would've been national
    champs last year because their one loss was to Colorado.  
    
    I think it would be all the more reason (like we need more reason) for
    a playoff if 2 *major* football powers went undefeated and untied.  If
    Washington and FSU went undefeated FSU would win it by a comfortable
    margin but Washington certainly would have a legit gripe.  But if Miami
    and Washington were to go undefeated it would undoubtedly be a much
    closer vote.  And this brings up the question: Have 2 major football
    powers gone undefeated and untied through the bowls?
    
    
    Joe

                                                          
>>    As I predicted, however, unless FSU beats Miami, UDub will be the
>>    national title champeen.  
    
 >   So what you're saying JD is that if Miami beats FSU then Washington and
 >   not Miami would move into the top spot?  I don't know, it will probably
 >   be close but I would think Miami would move into the top spot after
 >   beating a team that has been at #1 since preseason.  Washington has
 >   caught Miami in this week's poll as both teams are now tied for the #2
 >   spot - it will be interesting and crucial who moves into the #2 spot in
 >   the next 2 weeks leading up to the Miami-FSU showdown.
  
    I don't know why JD's saying this either, because if Miami beats
    Florida St, they'll definitely take the top slot.  I think they'd
    only solidify that with a win over a once-beaten team in the bowls,
    too (especially if that team's Notre Dame).  It'd take a tremendous 
    clobbering of Michigan in the Rose for Washington to prevent this.  
    The way I see it, the FSU-Miami game is really irrelevant to 
    Washington's title hopes.  They need the winner to fall in the bowls.
                                                          
>>    One article said that if (If and BUT were used quite frequently in both
>>    articles) the Huskies had beat UCLA last year, they'd be defending
>>    national champs and on the way to title #2. 
    
 >   I read an article in last week's Sporting News which said the exact
 >   same thing.  Actually, I think it was written by a writer from the
 >   Seattle area and is probably the same guy.  I'll check his name
 >   tonight.  Anyway, I'm not sure I buy that one.  What they're saying is
 >   that Washington would've been #1 entering this season (and therefore
 >   would still be #1) because they were the defending national champs and
 >   returned alot of players.  But I'm not so sure they would've been national
 >   champs last year because their one loss was to Colorado.  
  
    Washington would have been National Champs last year if they hadn't
    lost to UCLA, no doubt.  The close loss to Colorado would have been
    easily overcome by their more impressive showing in the bowls, coupled
    with Colorado's loss, tie, and the memory of the Missouri game.
    Washington was ranked ahead of Colorado before the UCLA game, and
    nothing that happened after that would have changed this. (All a
    moot point, of course.)
    
    To say that the Washington would be #1 right now is pushing it, 
    though.  The pre-season #1 is *not* historically granted to the 
    previous year's champs, at least not with any kind of consistency.  
    Florida St. gained the honors this pre-season based on their 
    tremendous personnel, not on last season's overall performance.
    The huge win over Michigan would have erased any doubts.  I think 
    Washington's whistling in the wind on this one...
    
    glenn
    

    
    > And this brings up the question: Have 2 major football
    > powers gone undefeated and untied through the bowls?
     
    It used to happen all the time (before expansion of inter-conference
    scheduling), but the last time was in 1969, when Texas and Penn
    State finished 1-2 and Richard Nixon "declared" Texas his own, 
    personal National Champ.  That made Penn State #1 in my book right
    there.  (As a point of historical interest, that Texas team was
    the last all-white squad to win the Nat'l Championship.  The SWC,
    in general, was the last to integrate their athletic squads, which
    was a big reason that Oklahoma owned the state of Texas' talent
    base through most of the next decade).
    
    glenn
    

    I don't remember the exact records either but the last time prior to
    last year when AP and UPI didn't agree was 1978, when Southern
    California was #1 in one of the polls and Alabama was #1 in the other. 
    Southern Cal was of course locked into the Rose Bowl while Alabama was
    committed to the Sugar Bowl.
    
    In 1969, Texas could have set up a #1 vs #2 matchup in the Cotton Bowl
    but opted instead to play (and defeat) Notre Dame in ND's first bowl
    game since the twenties.  ND refused to go to bowl games for a long
    time.
    
    John

    To clarify, I think the article's author was trying to say if Miami
    beat FSU, the Huskies would be #1 cause they are ahead on points in the
    poll right now...or something like that.  To me, FSU is by far the
    legit #1.  The beating of Michigan solidified that.
    
    The perfect scenario for UDub is:  FSU Beats Miami, but then loses to
    Florida....
    
    However, everyone our here seems to dismiss Michigan as a worthy
    opponent in the Rose Bowl.
    
    Imagine if the scenario I put forward works:  FSU loses to Florida, but
    beats Miami.  All of them have one loss.  Notre Dame and Michigan have
    one loss. Washington none.
    
    Michigan beats Washington in the ROse Bowl.  ND beats Miami (or vice
    versa in the Fiesta or whatever), FSU beats Big 8 in the Orange. 
    Florida beats someone like Penn State or Cal in thier Bowl... NOW THAT
    would make for some interesting voting....
    
    JD

>    The way I see it, the FSU-Miami game is really irrelevant to 
>    Washington's title hopes.  They need the winner to fall in the bowls.
    
    That's the way I see it also.  Like JD pointed out, they will be
    pulling for FSU in the Miami game because FSU has to play at Florida on
    the 30th in addition to their bowl game.  
    
    Another good question is who will the Miami/FSU winner play (assuming
    they're undefeated and ranked #1) if ND loses in the next 2 weeks?  I
    realize it doesn't matter who they play in a bowl because if they win
    they will be national champ, but I'm very curious as to who the
    opponent would be.  Would they decide to go to the Orange?  Miami could
    go to the Sugar vs. Florida, or FSU could play Penn State if the Lions
    are the ones to knock off ND.
    
    I understand there were some articles written out here (one here in CS
    and one in Boulder, but I didn't see either one) saying the Orange
    should have a rematch of CU and NU.  Great idea with the tie, but you can 
    be sure the Orange committee wouldn't want any part of it.   
    
    On a lesser scale, Air Force somehow lost Saturday night to a hapless
    New Mexico team.  The Falcons had a chance at a 10-2 season with the
    only losses coming to BYU and ND, but now they're looking at a very
    possible 8-4 if they can't win in Hawaii on the 23rd.  They will still
    end up in the Liberty Bowl but it's a disappointing way to finish off
    what could've been a very successful year.  So what does UNM do after 
    upsetting a team on the verge of cracking the polls?  They fire the head 
    coach, but he will finish out the season.  He was probably going to be 
    fired soon, but they could've waited until the season is over.
    
    
    
    Joe                                                  

    Crunch time coming up in the Yankee Conference over the next two weeks. 
    The big game takes place Saturday with 5-0 New Hampshire at 5-1
    Villanova.  Villanova hosts Massachusetts the week after.  Delaware is
    also 5-1, having beaten Villanova and lost to New Hampshire.  Delaware
    is at Connecticut this week and hosts Richmond to finish its Yankee
    Conference season.  New Hampshire hosts Rhode Island on the 16th and
    comes out to Amherst on the 23rd to finish the season.  Considering how
    New Hampshire has a recent history of choking against an inferior
    Massachusetts team (especially at Amherst) when the game has a lot of
    meaning for them, I'm telling all my UNH friends that we have them
    right where we want them.  :-)  Unfortunately, the Minutemen are
    reduced to being a mere spoiler - I doubt it will do much good against
    'Nova but it might help against UNH.
    
    John
    
    PS - one sure prediction for thised week's UNH at Villanova game - the
    Wildcats will win

                      
    John, what will it take for UNH to make the 1-AA (formerly Division
    II) playoffs for the first time since, what, 1976?  They can probably
    afford to lose one but not two more games, right?
    
    I ask because this program has been a consistent winner over almost
    the last 20 years (since Bill Bowes took over), but, as John indicates,
    has perenially choked when on the doorstep of attaining the Yankee 
    Conference championship or a playoff berth...
    
    glenn
    

    UNH has not shared or won outright the Yankee Conference championship
    since they won it back-to-back in 1975 and 1976.  They have never made
    the Division 1-AA playoffs since that division didn't come into
    existence until 1978.
    
    They really can't afford to lose more than one more game since they
    already have a loss (a 1-point loss at Marshall in the opener and
    Marshall is also ranked in the top twenty) and it's not very often that
    a New England team will get taken with more than 2 losses.
    
    They get an automatic berth if they win the championship outright.  If
    they beat Villanova that really puts them in the driver's seat since
    the only teams left in contention are the two of them plus Delaware and
    they've already beaten Delaware, and the first tiebreaker is
    head-to-head record. There really is a lot of pressure on the game this
    weekend.  If Villanova beats UNH then I really don't know what they'll
    do to break the tie if it ends up tied, and that will put the
    conference race into a mess.  I hope Villanova beats UNH because it'll
    put the pressure on the Cats when they come to Amherst on the 23rd, and
    the more pressure they're under the better the chance we have to break
    their hearts again.  Assuming Delaware, Villanova and UNH win the games
    they're supposed to win; if UNH beats Villanova, Villanova would finish
    at 6-2, Delaware at 7-1 and UNH 8-0.  UNH could afford to lose to
    either Rhode Island or Mass, Delaware and UNH would be most likely to
    make the playoffs and Villanova could still sneak in.  If Villanova
    beats UNH, then Delaware, UNH and Villanova would likely all finish at
    7-1 in the conference but then UNH would have no margin for error and
    couldn't afford to lose either of their other games.
    
    Of all the teams we played in the Yankee Conference I always thought
    the classiest teams were New Hampshire and Maine (along with us, of
    course).  Delaware has moved up there as well.  I also thought of BU,
    URI and UConn as being the loud mouthed cheap shot artists.  UNH is
    overdue and probably deserves to win but it would sure be nice to knock
    them off.
    
    John

 Ninja knows class.   They don't make 'em much classier than
 Delaware's Tubby Raymond.
 
 Bob Hunt

          Conferences records against other conferences/teams


	  SEC                     ACC                      PAC 10
	-------                 -------                   -------
	26-8-0                   17-8-0                   17-13-0

                              
                              
	 BIG 10                  BIG 8                      SWC
	-------                 -------                   -------
	17-12-0                 18-13-0                   15-11-0



	BIG EAST                
	--------
  	39-28-0
     
         

    Dave,
    Everything OK on the home front? Gonna have a chance to watch the UT-ND
    game on Sat?  I'll be ready to feast on some Vitamin C this weekend.
    Be a might chilly, but with some el cheapo Dom Perignon, will taste
    mighty fine.
    
    MikeL
    

    
    
    Mike, 
    I'll be home watching the game.....Vols take the Irish out of the 
    Title picture Saturday.
    
    Dave(who will be a daddy in few weeks)
    
    
    

>                                -< VOLS BY 17 >-
 
    Take it to 'em, Vols!
    
    
       
    

    Could someone please tell me what time the Miami Florida ST. game
    will be on next saturday on the 16th? I'm already trying to plan
    the day around it. It figures I have things to do that day.
    
                                              Dan

    Just read the Miami-FSU game is at 10am MST (noon Eastern) next
    Saturday.  Damm!  I've already committed to going to the
    Kansas-Colorado game with some people, so guess I'll have to get the
    VCR cranked up.  :^(
    
    ABC is expected to announce today if it will offer the PSU-ND game for
    a fee to approximately 50% of the country that won't receive it as a
    regional telecast in the network's double-header that day. 
    Pay-per-view would be the only access to the PSU-ND game for about half
    the country as ABC has Michigan-Illinois and a PAC-10 game scheduled
    as regional games in other parts of the country.  ND AD Dick Rosenthal 
    said he estimated the cost would be about $10 per household.
    
    
    Joe

    Joe -
    
    The pay-per-view idea has already been dropped, ABC announced today.
    
    Generally:
    
    The Times out here had an article asking the question of the Huskies:
    
    "The Greatest Team on Earth?"
    
    They are touting this Husky team as perhaps the greatest PAC-10 team of
    all time , with 1972's USC team being the only one that might have been
    better.  Most of the article is based on the feelings of Dick Vermeil,
    who feels that the Huskies could beat either Miami or FSU '2 out of 3'
    times, easy.   Vermeil is reknowned as a little bit of a PAC10 bigot -
    since that's where he coached before going pro...
    
    If the Huskies were to lose, folks would be jumping off bridges out
    here after all the buildup....
    
    JD

    
    The folks at Jimbo's Power Plays are saddened by the news of 
    Magic Johnson's HIV positive test, but this just reinforces our
    theory of living for the present.  We would hope that the media
    attention goes towards awareness of the virus and the aids
    disease and not on how he aquired the virus.
    
    Enough of that, I have spent countless hours this week collecting
    the inside information so that I can provide you with my 
    BLOCKBUSTER picks.  My top pick has covered three weeks in a 
    row and this week will not be any different.
    
    Jimbo's 5 star selection
    	take BC -6.5 vs. TEMPLE (Confidence factor makes this our
                                 strongest play of the week)
    
    Jimbo's one and only over/under college game of the year
    	take under 54 in the NOTRE DAME vs. Tenn. game ( this game will be
                                                         in the high 30's
    							 or low 40's)
    
    Jimbo's ride last week's top pick selection
    	take Nebraska -14 vs. KANSAS (Huskers by 35)
    
    Jimbo's Big Ten game of the week
    	take IOWA -5 vs. Indiana (This has been a crazy line due to
    				  Indiana's last game.  I say big deal Iowa
                                  by 14)
    
    Jimbo's flip of the coin special
    	take Georgia +12 vs. FLORIDA @Jacksonville  (Inside info says
    						     Bulldogs intense)
    
    Good luck and let's make some easy Christmas money
    
    Jimbo
    
    

Possible bowl matchups (from USA Today):

    
CALIFORNIA RAISIN   
San Jose St. or Fresno St. vs. Bowling Green

JEEP EAGLE ALOHA
Georgia Tech or Illinois vs. Oklahoma, Stanford, or BYU

BLOCKBUSTER     
Tennessee, NC St., Alabama, or Miami vs. Syracuse, Indiana, or Ohio State

POULAN/WEED EATER INDEPENDENCE
Miss.-Miss. State winner, N. Carolina, E. Carolina or LSU vs. TCU, Arkansas, 
Tulsa, or West Virginia

LIBERTY
Air Force vs. Arkansas or Mississippi-Mississippi State winner

MAZDA GATOR
NC State, Virginia, or Georgia vs. Iowa-Indiana loser, Oklahoma, or Syracuse

THRIFTY CAR RENTAL HOLIDAY
BYU-San Diego St. winner vs. Iowa-Indiana winner

FREEDOM
Stanford, San Diego St., or Arizona St. vs. Illinois, Texas, or Tulsa

JOHN HANCOCK
UCLA or Texas vs. Ohio State, Iowa-Indiana loser, Georgia, or Syracuse

DOMINO'S COPPER
BYU-San Diego St. loser, Stanford, or Arizona St. vs. Illinois, Baylor, 
Virginia, or Tulsa

PEACH
NC State, Virginia, or Georgia-Georgia Tech winner vs Ohio State, Illinois,
Oklahoma, Texas, or E. Carolina

HALL OF FAME
Tennessee or Georgia vs. Colorado, Nebraska, Syracuse or Ohio St.

FLORIDA CITRUS
Clemson vs. Penn State, California, Iowa or UCLA

MOBIL COTTON
Texas A&M vs. Alabama, Nebraska, Colorado, Notre Dame, or Penn St.

FIESTA
Notre Dame, Tennessee, Alabama or Penn St. vs. FSU, Miami, Nebraska or Colorado

ROSE
Washington vs. Michigan

FEDERAL EXPRESS ORANGE
Nebraska or Colorado vs. FSU or Miami

USF&G SUGAR
Florida vs. California, Notre Dame, Miami or Penn St.



Joe
    

    regarding ntoe .447
    
    Vermille is a PAC10 bigot because he believes the Huskies are the
    top team in the country.  Right?  If he stated that Miami or Florida
    State were the top teams, he would be a non-biased expert.  Correct?
    
    Vermille is an outstanding analyst.  He does his homework and knows the 
    game and the players.  
    
    To exand on his analysis, Flordia State is perhaps equal in offense.
    But neither Miami nor Florida State can come close to the Dawgs on
    defense.  The Huskies are simply the faster and more talented defensive 
    team.   Also, he stated 12 legitimate NFL players are on the squad.
    Too bad Florida State backed down from playing the Huskies this year.
    Instead, the Dawgs were fed Toldeo.
    
    
    With regard to the comparison of the 1972 Trojans to the Huskies,
    its too soon to make this comparison.  The season is far from over
    for all the teams.
      
    By the way, if two of these three are undefeated, there is nothing
    wrong with a co-championship.

              
>    Too bad Florida State backed down from playing the Huskies this year.
>    Instead, the Dawgs were fed Toldeo.
     
    See reply .370.  I think you guys have been purple-and-gold
    propagandized on this one...
    
    But I do think Washington is of that caliber and I wish we could
    see such a game.  Hell, I wish we could see Washington-UCLA.
    
    glenn
    

    Matt -
    
    Vermeil coached at UCLA - remember.  He's well reknowned as 'skewing'
    his 'expert analsys' to favour Pac 10 teams. The fact that the Times
    used only PAC10 'experts', coaches, or thinly veiled 'objective' folks
    like Dick 'UCLA' Vermeil, only undermined the story.  However, it was
    perfectly suited to help fan the flames of Husky fever.  
    
    JD

    UNH has now put themselves into a must-win situation over their last 2
    games with a 33-7 loss at Villanova today.  Delaware beat UConn easily
    today so Delaware and 'Nova are both 6-1 in the league and UNH is 5-1. 
    Delaware's remaining league game (and final game of the season) is with
    Richmond next Saturday.  'Nova hosts Massachusetts (42-14 win over
    Richmond today) on Saturday and then has a non-league game at Fordham
    the week after.  UNH hosts Rhode Island on Saturday and travels to
    their least favorite venue in New England, Amherst, Ma.  The most
    likely scenario, barring an upset, is a 3-way tie at 7-1.
    
    Glenn, even if UNH wins their last 2 games it may not help because
    Delaware and Villanova are unbeaten outside the league and are likely
    to finish 10-1 overall.  UNH lost its non-league opener by a point at
    Marshall (went for 2 late and failed) and the best they can finish is
    9-2.  Since the most teams the NCAA has ever taken from the Yankee
    Conference is 2, UNH could find themselves shut out even with a 9-2
    record.  They need us to beat Villanova or Richmond to beat Delaware -
    neither of which is likely to happen.
    
    John                                                     

    
    
    		Tennessee 35	Notre Dame 34
    
    Revenge is sweet!!!!!  I did not even get to see the game. The local
    NBC affiliate picked up the Fla St/South Carolina game. I've got a tape
    being sent to me. It seemed to be a great game.
    
    
    Dave
    

Dave,

I only caught like the last four minutes, but it WAS exciting!

I won't spoil it for ya....


'Saw

Holtz gacked. He should've stayed on the ground and ate up the clock
when ND was up by 6. Great comeback by the Vols! 



Steve

    
>    Glenn, even if UNH wins their last 2 games it may not help because
>    Delaware and Villanova are unbeaten outside the league and are likely
>    to finish 10-1 overall.  UNH lost its non-league opener by a point at
>    Marshall (went for 2 late and failed) and the best they can finish is
>    9-2.  Since the most teams the NCAA has ever taken from the Yankee
>    Conference is 2, UNH could find themselves shut out even with a 9-2
>    record.  They need us to beat Villanova or Richmond to beat Delaware -
>    neither of which is likely to happen.
 
    Wow, that would be a tough break considering who UNH lost to (Marshall,
    a strong team that was robbed of a win over NC State at State a few
    weeks ago).  Course, Delaware beat 1-A Navy, and with the pasting
    'Nova put on UNH this weekend, UNH probably doesn't have a complaint
    with either team being picked ahead of them.  Once again, the mystery
    is how a team that swamped a tough team like Delaware a couple of
    months ago can completely collapse and look so bad against Villanova
    as the end of the season nears.  Sigh...
    
    glenn
     

    If a team in college football has become known for not winning when it
    really matters, it's UNH and I can't explain it.  The only time I can
    ever remember them winning a truly big game since I've been associated
    with Yankee Conference football was against us in 1975.  We came into
    the game at Durham 8-0 and #2 or #3 in the country in Division 2, they
    were a little bit behind us (unbeaten in the conference, 1 loss
    outside) and beat us 14-11.  They went to the Division 2 playoffs, we
    stayed home.
    
    If UNH loses one of its last 2 and Delaware and Villanova both win this
    weekend then Delaware gets the automatic berth in the playoffs.
    
    John
    
    PS - While not college football related, it was a dark weekend for
    UMass sports.  The field hockey team lost to Temple in the Atlantic-10
    finals, the women's soccer team lost to UConn in the first round of the
    NCAAs and the men's soccer team (in its final year of existence and
    saved for this year only by a massive fundraising campaign) lost to
    Rutgers in the first round of the Atlantic-10 playoffs.  :-(
    

    
    Not to trivialize Tennessee's comeback,as it was truly great, Holtz,
    IMO on this day had his "Game-day" coaching reputation tarnished as
    Majors danced circles around him in the 2nd half. Holtz had his hat
    handed to him.
    ND got away from their offense throughout the third and half of the
    4th quarter. Insightful and effective Vols' stunting and assignment
    adjustments confused Irish coaching staff and the offense. Mirer looked
    lost all second half, except fer the final drive. ND couldn't solve
    the Tennessee adjustments and went into a shell for most of the second
    half. They tried defeinse-spreading options and pitches which Tennessee
    smothered. Even tho the Vols keyed on Bettis, he could have rumbled if
    Mirer had tried different straight on tacks (misdirection,halback
    traps) THAT was the smash-mouth football that Tennessee IMO would not
    have been able to stop. And it would have opened up the passing lanes
    off the play fake. Dang, good play fakes woulda had Derek Brown and a
    back (Bettis or Brooks) open allk day. Screens woulda worked. Anything
    but feeble options, pitches and straight back passing into great
    coverage (middle to late 4th quarter, thanks Mirer). ND needed
    possesion football done intelligently, but not Woody Hayes style
    "take no chances" during the 3rd and some of the fourth. Then of
    course,with ND still up by 6, Holtz goes into the straight back passing
    game with two series of "3 and out" and a weak Mirer int. IMO, what
    Holtz and the "O" finally did in the final drive coulda worked all
    second half. Holtz said he didn't know how what happened. Look in the
    mirror on this one Lou. You was outcoached bigtime in the second half.
    Hindsight is 20/20
    
    Oh, did I say that Tennessee made a great comeback. They sure did.
    Never gave up and took it to us.
    
    MikeL
    

    All last week the sorry-excuse of newspapers in this area
    were listing the Big East Soccer tournament held at UConn
    over the weekend.
    Naturally, now that the tourney is over, there has/is been
    NO info reported.
    
    Anybody living in the Storrs, Ct. area (ha!) know what happened?
    
    DTW,
    
    Kev
    

    
    
    	Can anyone please tell me who's going to carry the Miami/FSU game
    	this Saturday. ESPN??? ABC?? and what time does the game start??
    
    	Thanks in advance.
    	Dave.

Dave, the game is on ABC at 12:00 (noon) E.S.T. They are also showing
the Penn St. Notre Dame game at 3:30 or so. 



Steve

       Al Michaels says if you have other plans for noon Saturday, CHANGE
    THEM! Talk about hype.
                                    Denny

    saturday at noon, #1 FSU vs #2 Miami, as Al Michaels said last night
    if theres ever a game to change your schedule for this is it (which
    I have done). This should be a high spirited game, the refs are gonna
    have to be careful at the begining to make sure this doesn't get out
    of hand, both teams like to point the finger and do a little taunting,
    I know Coach Erickson has made a commitment to stopping that at
    Miami but he'll have a hard time controlling it in this one. Bobby
    Bowden was on some talk show on ESPN last night and Coach Erickson was
    one of the callers. I've been waiting for this game since the begining
    of the season, the only real way these two teams wouldn't have been
    #'s and 1 and 2 were if Michigan beat FSU, this will be a great game.
    
                                                    Dan
    
    Just when you were getting over the Alanta Brave fans war chant, it'll
    probably be louder at FSU saturday.

    
    	Thanks Guys, The Keg is already reserved!!.
    
    	Dave.

    JD,
    
    Never thought I'd say this, but I'm even starting to get a little
    disgusted by all the Husky Hype 'round here.  The Dogs eked out an
    unimpressive 14-3 win at USC on Saturday, lost one point in the polls
    to slip from a tie for second to third by a point, and the call-in
    fans and sportscasters are beside themselves with righteous indignation
    at the travesty of justice this represents.  To listen to them, this
    is rivaled in unfairness only by the snub of New Kids on the Block at
    last year's Grammys.
    
    Tony Ventrella last night on channel 5 said "The Huskies win for the
    first time since 1980 at SC, and fall in the polls?!?!  Go figure that
    one."  Hey, Tony, USC isn't exactly a powerhouse this year and the 
    Huskies looked bad.  No big mystery there.
    
    Anyway, they will be #2 after this weekend, so what's the big deal?
    
    Pete

Hey Dave? What? No Invite? Geez..


Cubs #7 or so!

    The Huskies will be #1 next week because the FSU/Miami game
    will end in a tie- 19 each.
    
    

    Jimbo, how many points are you giving on the X-Men next week ?
    
    And what is the over/under ?
    
    Doc

  According to my Denver Rocky Mtn news, these games will be televised 
  on saturday with all times being MST:

	Miami at FSU, 10 AM, Ch 9 (ABC)
	Indiana st Ohio State, 10:30, ESPN
	Auburn at Georgia, 10:30, TBS
	TCU at Texas, 11:00, PSN
	Kansas at Colorado, 12:00, Ch 4 (NBC)
	Michigan at Illinois, 1:30, Ch 9 (ABC)
	Arkansas at Texas A&M, 5:30, ESPN 
	BYU at San Diego State, 8:30, ESPN

  And I think the Notre Dame/Penn State game may also be televised.
  This is almost as good as News Years day. I'll be lucky if I make it 
  through the weekend without my wife asking for a divorce.

				Keith

>  And I think the Notre Dame/Penn State game may also be televised.
    
    No, it's not, because it's one of ABC's 1:30 pm regional games and we're
    getting Michigan-Illinois instead.
    
    Joe 
                 

    They were talking about the Miami-FSU matchup on Sportscenter last
    night and said the Canes have faced the #1-ranked team 7 times and won
    every time.  They also said it was about the 6th or 7th time the #1 and
    #2 ranked teams have met and been from the same state.  The ones I can
    remember were:
    
    Georgia Tech vs. Georgia  (back in the 40's)
    Penn State vs. Pitt
    ND vs. Purdue  (twice)
    USC vs. UCLA
    Miami vs. FSU (in '88)
    
    
    Joe

        
    > They also said it was about the 6th or 7th time the #1 and
    > #2 ranked teams have met and been from the same state.  The ones I can
    > remember were:
    > 
    > Georgia Tech vs. Georgia  (back in the 40's)
    > Penn State vs. Pitt
    > ND vs. Purdue  (twice)
    > USC vs. UCLA
    > Miami vs. FSU (in '88)
      
    I saw that, too, and immediately thought that someone at ESPN had
    screwed something up.  The tip-off for me was that they listed Penn
    State-Pitt in 1981, a game that I attended in Pittsburgh.  Pitt
    was #1 in the country, but Penn State had two losses and most
    definitely was not #2 (in fact, they were #11).  Penn State went
    on to rout Pitt, 48-14.  There have been no Pitt-Penn State #1-#2
    games...
    
    I looked it up in the NCAA record book and, based on the AP poll, the 
    only instance I can find where #1 played #2 from the same state was 
    Notre-Purdue in 1968, where #1 Purdue was victorious 37-22.  The only
    other one I'm not sure of was FSU-Miami in 1988, which was the first
    game of the year.  FSU was the pre-season #1.  Was Miami #2?
    
    glenn
     
               

    
>    I looked it up in the NCAA record book and, based on the AP poll, the 
>    only instance I can find where #1 played #2 from the same state was 
>    Notre-Purdue in 1968, where #1 Purdue was victorious 37-22.  The only
>    other one I'm not sure of was FSU-Miami in 1988, which was the first
>    game of the year.  FSU was the pre-season #1.  Was Miami #2?
    
    There was a list of #1 vs. #2 (in AP) matchups of all-time in a local
    paper today.  I found the same thing you did Glenn, ND-Purdue in '68
    the only in-state matchup.  That '88 Miami-FSU game was not on there so
    Miami must not have been #2.  I wonder what the heck ESPN was talking
    about??
    
    
    Joe
      
               

Since the AP Poll began in 1936, the #1 and #2 teams will be meeting for the
26th time this Saturday.  Since 1987 Miami has won 2 national titles and 
neither Miami or FSU has finished out of the top five in the final AP Poll.

No. 1 vs. No. 2 history:

1943: #1 Notre Dame 35, #2 Michigan 12
1943: #1 Notre Dame 14, #2 Iowa Pre-Flight 13
1944: #1 Army 23, #2 Navy 7
1945: #1 Army 32, #2 Navy 13
1945: #1 Army 48, #2 Notre Dame 0
1946: #1 Army 0, #2 Notre Dame 0, tie
1962: #1 USC 42, #2 Wisconsin 37, Rose Bowl
1963: #1 Texas 28, #2 Navy 6, Cotton Bowl
1963: #2 Texas 28, #1 Oklahoma 7
1966: #1 Notre Dame 10, #2 Michigan State 10, tie
1968: #1 Ohio State 27, #2 USC 16, Rose Bowl
1968: #1 Purdue 37, #2 Notre Dame 22
1969: #1 Texas 15, #2 Arkansas 14
1971: #1 Nebraska 38, #2 Alabama 6, Orange Bowl
1971: #1 Nebraska 35, #2 Oklahoma 31
1978: #2 Alabama 14, #1 Penn State 7, Sugar Bowl
1981: #1 USC 28, #2 Oklahoma 24
1982: #2 Penn State 27, #1 Georgia 23, Sugar Bowl
1985: #1 Iowa 12, #2 Michigan 10
1986: #2 Miami 28, #1 Oklahoma 16
1986: #2 Penn State 14, #1 Miami 10, Fiesta Bowl
1987: #2 Miami 20, #1 Oklahoma 14, Orange Bowl
1987: #2 Oklahoma 17, #1 Nebraska 7
1988: #1 Notre Dame 27, #2 USC 10
1989: #1 Notre Dame 24, #2 Michigan 19

    Well what can I say Jimbo's power plays are making money.  As
    advertised in this space last week my top pick BC covered easily
    making me 4 for 4 in the last 4 weeks.  Overall for the week I was
    3-2 due to not waking up and smelling the over in the ND-Tenn game.
    Due to our success Jimbo's power plays is now EXCLUSIVELY a 900
    number service just call me at 1-900-EZBUCKS to get my top rated
    selections for college football.  The call is free until you get
    your phone bill. 8*)  This week's theme is a common theme, because
    it's going to be a DOG DAY AFTERNOON.
    
    Jimbo's top selection 4-0 last 4 weeks
    	Take ND +3.5 vs. PENN STATE (ND is easily the better team, plus
    				     3.5 points and this is too easy)
    
    Jimbo's Big Ten game of the week
    	take ILLINOIS +10 vs. Michigan (The fight'n Illini way too tough
                                        at home for a ten point gift)
    
    Jimbo's Big East game of the week
    	take BC +10 vs. SorryExcuse	(My grandpappy always said stay
    					 with the hot team and Syracuse 
    					 sips anyways)
    
    Jimbo's who's #1 selection
    	take Miami +3.5 vs. FLORIDA ST. (My grandpappy also used to say
    					 always take the team from Florida
    					 big help he is)
    
    Jimbo's flip of the coin special 
    	take Kentucky +35 vs FLORIDA	(Why not...)
    
    Good luck 
    
    Jimbo
     
    
    

    HEEEEEEE  HAWWWWWWWW  HEEEEEEE HAWWWWWW HAWWWWWW HAWK!
    
    -2
    Didst I tell ya I wanna party wif you!!
    
    MikeL
    

    But I sure enjoyed that 48-zip whipping at the hands of Army!  And I'm
    happy now that they're OUT of the national title race in mid-November
    for the first time since '87.  Unfortunately, ND should be very good
    next year.  :*(
    
    
    Joe 

    Hey Joe,
    dat 48-0 whuppin agin Army was when 3/4 of da Irish team was off
    fighting the enemas during WWII whilst Army brats was playin foosball
    waitin for the 2nd looie bars and the war to end so they wouldn't 
    get their pretty-ass britches shot off.  However, we ask for no  *
    8^)
    
    MikeL
    

    Jimbo
    
    Thanks for the KOD for the Irish on Sat. vs the Snittany Lyins (tm)
    
    What's yer winning percentage. The same as the Chritians vs the real
    lions?
    
    MikeL
    

    re -.2 
    	Overall I'm one game under .500 for the year, but this week is the
    big week!!!!  My top pick has come in four weeks in a row and ND
    will make it five.  I just don't feel that Penn State can play with
    ND.  The Nittany Lions would do well against the ND fourth string
    but they don't make the travel team.  
    
    My prediction is ND 31 - Penn St 21
    
    
    Jimbo

    So what ? Are the X-Men getting points or what !? :-)

    Here's hoping that Notre Dame's Rocket Ismail-christened AFROS
    will riddle the Penn St secondary.
    
    Let me 'splain. Before the Rocket left ND, he left a moniker on
    Notre Dame's remaining receiving corp.
    AFROS= America's Finest Receivers On Saturday
    Kinda cute.
    
    MikeL
    

    
>        Let me 'splain. Before the Rocket left ND, he left a moniker on
>    Notre Dame's remaining receiving corp.
>    AFROS= America's Finest Receivers On Saturday
 
    Naw, Mike, that'd be Penn State's twin terrors, O.J. McDuffie and
    Terry Smith.  Best receiving pair at State since Kenny Jackson and
    Gregg Garrity.  You'll see.  ;-)
    
    glenn
    
    

    Bob Griese stated, as reported in the Seattle Times, that
    the Huskies are the best team in the country.  Better than
    Miami or FSU.
    
    

    Yep, and he qualified that it isn't a solid choice, and that in his
    eyes, Weldon is much beter than the Huskies QB, who Griese said was
    shakey.
    
    In both articles and letters to the papers, Husky faithful are already
    preparing one excuse - East Coast Voting Bigotry!  Ha!  Even though
    Blaine Newman, possibly the worst sports columnist in history, did
    admit that if FSU goes undefeated, they'd deserve the #1 ranking.  Duh
    Blaine!  It would mean that FSU would have beaten 4 top 10 teams
    (3 of the top 5....)   The Huskies meanwhile, will most likely play ONE
    top 5 team all year!  Can you say Overrated - I thought you could.
    
    They have another tough PAC-10 opponent this week in Oregon...Is there
    a weaker conference than the PAC-10??
    
    JD

    "another west coast bigot"
    
    Bob Griese went to Purdue, played for the Miami Dolphins and now 
    lives in Miami.
    
                                        Dan

    Dan -
    
    That was the whole point, the Times used Griese to 'prove' that folks
    throughout the land feel the Huskies are #1.  Matt, I'm sure, put that
    in as a dig on last week's trashing of Dick Vermeil, who is a west
    coast bigot, even if he doesn't live out here...
    
    JD

    All the favorites won in the Yankee Conference.  Delaware finished at
    7-1 in the league, 10-1 overall, with a 23-17 win over Richmond. 
    Villanova finished at 7-1 in the league and is now 9-1 overall (game at
    2-7 Fordham on Saturday) with a 24-14 win over Massachusetts, and it
    surprised me it was that close.  New Hampshire blew a 35-21 lead over
    Rhode Island and came back to win 42-35.  New Hampshire is now 6-1 in
    the league and 8-2 overall.  Delaware and Villanova have clinched ties
    for the title.  New Hampshire must win Saturday to force a 3-way tie
    and have any hopes of getting to the playoffs.
    
    In the Ivy League, it will come down to the Princeton (5-1 in the
    league) at Dartmouth (5-0-1 in the league) on Saturday.
    
    Holy Cross (4-0 in the Patriot League) can wrap up the league with a
    win over Colgate (3-1) on Saturday.  If Colgate wins, it's a 2-way tie
    and Lafayette (3-1) can sneak in with a win over Lehigh.
    
    John

RE: Washington

We'll see what happens in the Rose Bowl - should be a good test.

RE:  Miami over FSU

Do the 'Caines deserve to be number one afterthis game?  It was a good game as
far as excitement is concerned, but the level of play made it hard to believe 
that we were looking at the best team inthe nation.

=Bob=

    The announcer said it best after the FG missed... Last year it would
    have been good... The NCAA has put the uprights closer together
    this year from 23 feet to 18 feet....
    
    REK

> Do the 'Caines deserve to be number one afterthis game?  It was a good game as
> far as excitement is concerned, but the level of play made it hard to believe 
> that we were looking at the best team inthe nation.

    Forget the level of play.  Miami was down by 9 in the 4th quarter in a
    hostile environment and managed to come back and pull it out.  Simply put,
    the Canes didn't blink.  Miami beat a team that's been number one since
    August on their home field and they deserve to be #1.  Notre Dame was
    severely outplayed in '88 against the Canes but came out on top in a game 
    that paved the way for their national title.  
    
    I really feel for FSU, their fans, Casey Weldon, and Bobby Bowden. 
    Bowden is one of the most liked coaches in college football and has had
    as much success as any team over the past 5 years but FSU doesn't have
    a national title to show for it.  I really thought FSU was destined
    this year, but they had their nemesis Miami on the ropes in the 3rd
    quarter and couldn't hold on.  
    
    If Washington beats Michigan in the Rose expect possibly the closest
    vote in the history of the AP Poll.  Miami leads Washington 46-14 in
    first place votes this week, but the Huskies could close that gap with
    a victory over a top-5 Michigan team while Miami's opponent may not
    even be top-10 material.  A Michigan victory in the Rose will kill the
    potential controversy and make Miami a unanimous number 1 after the
    bowls.  
    
    The AP voters managed to keep their consistency intact this week by
    keeping FSU ranked ahead of the Michigan team they defeated soundly.
    
    
    Joe

    The Miami/FSU game was a great batle of the top 2 teams. This sets up a
    great New Years day. If the teams remain as is going into Jan 1. 
    
    1. Miami
    2. Washington
    3. FSU
    4. Michigan
    
    Any of these teams can win it. If Miami and Washington both win,
    their could be co champs. If both lose , FSU or Michigan gets the nod.
    FSU could win here by there win earlier over Michigan. This year proves
    the need for the Title game once and for all. It's good to see the Rose Bowl
    have NAtional Title impact for a change.
    
    
    Mike "who's ND fell from Grace"   
     

    The biggest lay of the game was the 4th and 6 - why Buckly played about
    13 yards off the receiver, I'll never know - with a blitz, Torrenta
    wouldn't have time for anythign but short - so chucking the receiver
    was the way to go.  That play, IMO, cost them the game...
    
    JD

    
    How can Miami feel good about the win?  Easily.  Hey, I don't like
    them either, but they're a three-time national champion of the 1980s 
    that has been overshadowed by Florida State's "Team of the Century" 
    reputation this season (and FSU has talked more trash than anyone
    this year, in my opinion).  But once again, they went into enemy 
    territory and still came out top dog.
    
    We were monitoring this game off-and-on on Mike's hand-held TV in
    the parking lot at the Penn State-ND game.  When we headed in for
    the game, it was FSU 16, Miami 7 and I thought there was no way
    in the world FSU was going to let that lead slip away.  By the time
    we got settled in, though, it was already 17-16 Miami, but FSU was
    driving.  We were in the ND section and had a slew of fans looking 
    over our shoulders and listening in.  The final kick was so close 
    that I couldn't tell what had happened; I had to wait for the
    officials.  You should have heard the groans.  Those Irish fans do 
    not like Miami (no kidding, huh?)!  But then again, who does?
    
    I still think Miami should have been asked or should have wanted 
    (whichever is the case) to go to the Sugar to play Florida for the 
    so-called national state championship.  The national championship 
    run will be anti-climactic from here on out, no doubt with the poor
    Big 8 rep getting clobbered by Miami's very underrated defense.  
    Sorry, Washington.
    
    glenn
    

    Well, Saturday was the worst of possible outcomes for the Wash.
    Huskies...Miami will go undefeated and win the Champeenship.  The Husky
    faithful will cry and whine about Eastern Bias.  But the real reason is
    that other than Michigan, they won't hav e played a good team all year
    (Cal isn't that great...)
    
    Granted, Miami's schedule wasnt' that tough - but wins over FSU AND
    Penn State (plus BYU) give them a better claim than the Huskies.  
    
    I've thought of a way to make a million - purple and gold "Purple Storm
    Crying Towels" - should be a hot item Jan.  2.
    
    Also, out here, NO ONE is giving Michigan a chance vs. the Huskies...
    
    That could be the surprise..
    
    JD

    
    	Nobody is giving the Big 8 champ a chance either.  I hope
    	NU beats OU (cuz I feel they are better than CU) and upsets
    	Miami in the Orange.
    
    	Claybone

    
    
    RE: Hawk
    I agree about Bowden trying something on 3rd down.  When the kicker
    came in, I thought for sure they would fake it.  If nothing's there,
    throw it away and then try the FG.  Can't believe Bowden didn't use any
    trickery in this game.  BTW, I was able to watch this game because I
    wimped out and decided not to go to the Kansas-CU game and sit in the
    snow.  Sitting at home in a warm living room, eating nachos, watching
    Miami-FSU and avoiding 4 hours of drive time sounded a lot better on
    this day.  :^)
    
>    You should have heard the groans.  Those Irish fans do 
>    not like Miami (no kidding, huh?)!  

    Oh, would I have loved to be in your shoes at that moment.  But Glenn,
    what was better: listening to the ND fans groaning over Miami's win or
    sitting through that wonderful game with them?  :^) :^)
    
>    But then again, who does?
    
    Hey, watch it, I'm a big Cane fan.  
    
>   I still think Miami should have been asked or should have wanted 
>   (whichever is the case) to go to the Sugar to play Florida 

    There are some reports that the Sugar never really gave them a chance. 
    Supposedly, ABC was pissed off at the Sugar for taking Virginia last
    year and pressured the Sugar into (prematurely) taking the Irish.  That
    also pissed PSU off, but the Lions got the last laugh Saturday.  Corso
    said the Sugar will get a better than the Orange (they're on at the
    same time) and he's probably right.
    
    Hey JD, everyone knows you're not one of the bigger Washington fans
    around, but we also know you dislike Miami.  So since it's most likely
    Miami or Washington will take it, who would you rather see win it all?
    Just curious.
    
    
    Joe

    JD, forgot to mention that Miami doesn't play BYU this year, as you
    said earlier.
    
    PS - Anyone ever seen Claybone and Marty together?  :^)
    
    
    Joe

    Miami won fair and square.  Any talk about FSU should have won
    wasn't watching the same game I was.  Miami shot themselves in
    the foot in a game that they could have won going away.  How
    many times were they in FSU territory and came up with zero?
    FSU missing the winning field goal was pure justice!!!
    
    Michigan WILL beat Washington in the Rose bowl, in a close game.
    
    Most exciting game of the week that nobody watched 
    BYU 52 - San Diego State 52
    
    I think it will be great to see Nebraska have a chance to upset
    Miami's national championship.  This time I hope Miami blows
    the two point conversion.  
    
    Jimbo
    

Kudos to the bowl commitees for holding off until the very last minute 
before extending all their bowl game invitations.   The suspense was biting 
as the college sports world had absolutely no idea which teams would be 
going to which bowl games.

This was much improved over the poor showings of recent years when the bids 
were all but locked up weeks before the official invitation date.

Not.

Bob Hunt

    NCAA Division 3 playoffs:
    
    East:   UMass-Lowell at Union, Glassboro State at Ithaca
    South:  Washington and Jefferson at Lycoming, Susquehanna at Dickinson
    North:  Albion at Allegheny, Baldwin-Wallace at Dayton
    West:   Coe at St Johns and Wisconsin-LaCrosse at Simpson
    
    John

>                       -< Notes> SET NOTE /SARCASM="On" >-
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Kudos to the bowl commitees for holding off until the very last minute 
> before extending all their bowl game invitations.   The suspense was biting 
> as the college sports world had absolutely no idea which teams would be 
> going to which bowl games.

    Good one, Bob.  It should more like "Pay up, boys".  But does anyone
    actually believe for a second that any of the bowls will end up
    forking out a $250,000 fine?  
    
    If there can't be a playoff, it's a shame that Miami and Washington
    can't be meeting.  Even with the alliance that goes into effect next year
    this would still be a problem because of the Pac-10's and Big Eleven's
    commitment to the Rose Bowl.
    
    
    Joe

    
    	Watch it Joe!  You're treadin' on thin ice ;^)
    
    	The reason I say that is I don't want to see CU go
    	down there and give up 3-5 turnovers, like they
    	have lately, to a team that WILL bury them for it.
    	Also, NU tied CU in CU's backyard.  I think that's
    	worth giving them the nod.
    
    	Claybone

    Joe C. -
    
    Perhaps you forget - but I *used* to be a big Miami Hurricanes fan -
    before Jimmy Johnson turned them into a bunch of taunting jerks. 
    I like Ericson - he seems to have turned things around, attitude wise
    for the Canes.  If they keep that up, they could enter back in my
    favorite teams race...(BTW, my fave is Penn State, with ND second -
    Miami used to be third..)
    
    I'd rather see Miami, cuz I think the Huskies are extremely overrated
    by their rabid fans out here.  Actually, I hope Michigan beats
    Washington, so I can whistle "The Victors" everywhere I go, and cause
    Husky fans to get little goosebumps on the backs of their haids.  And,
    I'll love reading the whiney columns and letters in the sports pages.
    
    
    IMO, Miami, FSU, and Florida are the best 3 teams in the nation - no
    question.
    
    JD

    Hawk -
    
    They didnt taunt or danc e hardly at all - cept after the game.  The
    worse thing they did, however, was rip apart the ceiling of the locker
    room.  No excuse for that.  
    
    Penn State is always a solid, fundamental team.  If only they didnt'
    have a letdown vs. Miami....
    
    JD

>               -< Canes still taunt and still sip.  'Nuff said. >-

    And still rool!!!
    
>    I'd put Penn State in the Top 5 right now.  One awesome team...
    
    That loss at USC keeps them out of there.  As the season goes on, it's
    getting harder to believe that PSU managed to lose to the Trojans.
    
    
    Joe 

                                           
    >>    I'd put Penn State in the Top 5 right now.  One awesome team...
    
    > That loss at USC keeps them out of there.  As the season goes on, it's
    > getting harder to believe that PSU managed to lose to the Trojans.
      
    Bingo.  The 'SC game was the letdown, not the Miami game (although
    only the quick strikes did State in in that one).  It's turned into
    one of those "what could have been" years for Penn State, like 1981
    when a strong two-loss team still finished #3.  They're a much 
    better team than they were last year when they were beaten in the 
    Blockbuster by Florida State.  The difference has been-- and I'm 
    saying this as one of his biggest *former* detractors-- Tony Sacca, 
    who has improved immensely and just may make a decent pro QB someday.
    
    I do wish Penn State were matched up against Florida or Florida State 
    again in the bowls.  Tennessee is okay, and it will be no cakewalk,
    but I question the Vols' strength on defense.
    
    glenn
    

    JD,
    
    What would it take for you to admit that Washington is a deserving
    top-3 team?  They beat Nebraska and Cal on the road.  Each was, by
    the way, the only loss each team has.  Each is/was a top-10 team.
    If you saw the sloppy Miami-Fla St. game Saturday, and still contend
    that both are vastly superior to Washington, you obviously are being
    blinded by your anti-Husky bias.
    
    The Huskies defense is better than Miami's, except perhaps for the
    secondary.  Miami has a better QB and WR's.  Other than that, I think
    both are fairly even.  
    
    As a service to you, JD, I've prepared a portion of a note for you to
    enter on January 2, after the Huskies bury Michigan.  Please extract
    this and make sure to edit it into your reply:
    
      But, Michigan isn't a legitimate top-5 team.  The Huskies can only
      beat faux-top teams: Nebraska, Cal and now Michigan.  Michigan has
      no defense.  The Huskies don't even deserve to be number 2.  The only
      decent football played in the U.S. is in the state of Florida.  The
      REAL top 10:
        
        1. Miami
        2. Florida St.
        3. Florida
        4. Univ. of Key West Fighting Fudge
        5. Epcot Center Plastic Grin Training Institute
        6. Miami Wesleyan
        7. Gainsville U.   
        8. Tallahasee Airborne Parasites
        9. Tampa U. Tenacious Tapeworms
       10. Reptile World Employee Training Center
    
    Pete 8^)                

    You forgot Jacksonville, Stetson, Rollins, St Leos, Central Florida,
    South Florida and Tampa.
    
    John

Go Fighting Fudge !!!   Whatta Team !!!

Bob Hunt

    IMO, FSU is the better team and would win 3 out of 4 times (or
    something like that) with Miami.  IMO, Miami would have a difficult
    time against the Huskies defense.  FSU gave Miami all it could handle,
    especially when they blitzed.  And the FSU defense is a poor second
    to the Dawgs.  No-one, no where,  no way, plays defense and has the
    talent the Huskies have on defense.
    
    Gotta love and feel for Bowden!
      
    
    

    Absolutely ROLLWARD Pete!  
    
    Hey - of course the teams may have looked sloppy - happens when two
    great teams meet each other.  Of course, with Washington playing the
    Oregon Fighting Freds, you wouldn't know what legitimate competition
    looks like.
    
    I keep hearing about the Husky defense - and it is good - Emtman should
    be the Outland winner, hands down - but IT's REAL, REAL easy to look
    great why you play patsies.   Cal is by far the most overrated team in
    teh Top Ten - they've played No one but Washington - and lost that one
    (and the Huskies needed help from the Refs in that one...) - and
    Nebraska is a power in name only - not a top 5 or so team.
    
    The Huskies are a top 5 or so team - but would be #3 in Florida - or
    #4.   Heck, if you were to transpose the Huskies and any of the Florida
    teams - I'd guarentee that the Florida team would go undefeated in the
    Punchless10 Conference.  
    
    Booby Joe put up some good numbers this weekend over the 0-Infinite
    Oregonians - way ta go BIlly Goat, er, Joe!
    
    many, many ;-)'s
    
    JD
    
    PS:  Caint wait til the GSW-StopidSonics game -...

    Matt -
    
    Methinks you've read too much Blaine Newman or Steve Kelly on the
    Huskies defense.  When you play stiffs, it's easy for the defense to
    look good.  Billy Joe wouldn't know what hit him against Miami or FSU.
    First off, the speed is vastly superior to Washington - it didn't seem
    so bad on Saturday, cuz BOTH teams are so fast you couldn't tell - but
    put them against the Huskies, and it would be over.  Of course, the
    Huskies looked great against the Patsy of the Week that they played.
    
    Emtman is fantastic, however.  
    
    Take the fastest guy on the Huskies.  Miami and FSU have about 15 of
    him on defense - and more on offense.  That's harsh reality.  The
    offenses of both teams are superior to the Huskies offense.  No
    contest.  Huskies have WSU next week in the Patsy of the Week
    Pathetic10 conference.
    
    JD 

    Didn't one of those computer college ratings schemes give Washington a
    schedule toughness factor comparable to Miami and FSU?

>   Take the fastest guy on the Huskies.  Miami and FSU have about 15 of
>    him on defense - and more on offense.  That's harsh reality.  The
>    offenses of both teams are superior to the Huskies offense.  No
>    contest.  Huskies have WSU next week in the Patsy of the Week
>    Pathetic10 conference.

wow JD...you should realy quit your job at DEC and start your own football 
player rating service. You obviously know more about football than anybody else
in the entire world. You've even managed to evaluate every player on 3 college
football teams beyond a shadow of a doubt. How about listing the personnel on
each team and their speeds in the 40? It should be no problem for a man of
yor caliber....


Miami has played a tougher schedule and they deserve the #1 ranking. It's too
bad that the fans are left with such poor matchups on January 1. The only game
that pits teams relatively close in the rankings is the Rose bowl and that 
isn't even the battle for #1.

Metz
    

    
    I think Washington's tough, but the Hurricanes have been there many
    times before and know what the big games are all about.  For that
    reason, and especially because Billy Joe hasn't dealt with that
    kind of intense pressure as JD points out, I'd give the edge to 
    Miami.  Hell, we heard all of that Eastern bias/no respect stuff
    from Washington last year, then they were presented with a little
    bit of a tough challenge in UCLA and they choked their title hopes
    away, at home.  We should believe Washington could also go into
    Tallahassee and beat Florida State like Miami did?
    
    Furthermore, if anyone should pay the price for a fixed bowl
    arrangement like the one that exists between the Pac-10 and Big
    Ten, it's the teams that play in those conferences.  The burden
    of proof rests with those teams.  If they think they're the best,
    they'd better get out there and take on the Florida teams, or at
    least a couple of the tough teams that *do* exist east of the
    Mississippi...
    
    glenn
    

    
>    Furthermore, if anyone should pay the price for a fixed bowl
>    arrangement like the one that exists between the Pac-10 and Big
>    Ten, it's the teams that play in those conferences.  The burden
>    of proof rests with those teams.  If they think they're the best,
>    they'd better get out there and take on the Florida teams, or at
>    least a couple of the tough teams that *do* exist east of the
>    Mississippi...
   
    Well put.  But, unfortunately, these 2 conferences are more concerned
    with the money than deciding who's the best team in the country, even
    if it might be from one of their conferences.  The Rose pays out 2.5
    million more than any other bowl.  
    
    Money and ratings.  I mentioned earlier about Lee Corso say how the
    Sugar would outdraw the Orange (and he's probably right).  But right
    after that Chris Fowler responded "But ratings isn't what it's all
    about."  Corso comes back and says "It is for the bowls."  Sadly,
    Corso's right.  It's more like: Ratings *shouldn't* be what it's all
    about.
    
    You know what kills me in this whole mess.  They say there's all this
    money in the bowls.  Okay, can't deny that one.  BUT, look what kind of
    megabucks an organized playoff would bring in.  CBS just payed over a
    billion dollars per year to televise the NCAA basketball tournament. 
    That's right, a billion dollars.  They get a playoff of 16 teams (perfect 
    size IMO) it would be nearly as profitable I bet.  And the NCAA has said 
    that the NCAA basketball tournament is, by far, their biggest money-making 
    event of they year.
    
 
    Joe
     

Joe,

CBS did *NOT* pay a *BILLION* dollars per year for the rights to telecast 
the NCAA Basketball Tournament.    I believe they paid close to a billion 
for a *SEVEN* year deal.

A billion per year is a staggering amount.   However, your point is still 
well made in spite of the slip.   Even a billion dollars over 7 years is 
still a huge chunk of change and you gotta know that the bowls and the NCAA 
would love to get the tube to pony up that kind of scratch all over again 
for a different sport.

Bob Hunt

    Mac,  Actually, I think all the computerized ratings have Washington
    at #1.  They all have a strength-of-schedule factor, and are as
    unbiased as you can get.  
    
    JD, I would have to admit that if I was in Vegas, and the Huskies
    were playing Miami in a bowl game, I'd probably put my money on Miami.
    I do think they have more big game experience and wouldn't gag under
    pressure, as you could argue the Huskies have done recently.  They
    should have crushed USC, but Billy Goat (love that name!) had a poor
    game.  I have a feeling they would play poorly and lose.
    
    But, it's real frustrating to wait your whole life for your team to
    have a shot at a national championship, maybe go 12-0 and not get it,
    especially after Colorado's lame championship last year.  If they do
    go 12-0 and come in #2, I think it would only be the second or third
    time a team has gone undefeated but not won the n.c.
    
    Pete
    
    P.S. JD, don't you think Ricky Pierce should be on the NBA All-Star
    team this year 8^).

    Metz -
    
    Wasn't there an article last week in the times about the blazing speed
    of the Florida teams.  About how they just trot out 4.3 guy after 4.3
    guy.   Now, I've seen the Huskies - and they have some fast guys - but
    they don't have the speed depth that either team has.  Heck - I don't
    know what they'd be like on artificial turf - which is what the Huskies
    play on....both FSU and Miami play on real turf, which generally slows
    ya down.
    
    Mac -
    
    Even before this year, I've said that Saragins power ratings are a
    joke.
    
    Heck, after FSu beat Michigan - its power rating went *down* - Figure
    that one.  ANd Washington's goes up when it kills a patsy!  
    
    FSU will have played 3 top 5 teams by the end of the year - 2 of them
    on the road - if that doesn't give them a higher rating - then I don't
    know what does.  Playing the Oregons, Toledos, and WSU's of the world
    can't help power ratings - but it seemingly does...
    
    Pete -
    
    Hey, first I understand - yanking yer chains.  Huskies picked a bad
    year to have a great year.  Like I said, every Husky fan in the world
    should have been praying that FSU beat Miami - cuz it gave them a
    chance (with FSU having to play in Florida, while Miami has a Husky
    type schedule...).
    
    I hope that the Huskies decide to play some Eastern Teams soon.  Until
    the PAC10 gets stronger - they will always face the questions of
    toughness.  Being married to the Rose Bowl doesn't help.
    
    But, lets put it this way.  Say we take Saragin adn the Huskies are #1. 
    FSU lost to Miami by 1, but scored 51 points vs. Michigan.  The Huskies
    - the superior defensive team and the superior team to FSU or Miami,
    should absolutely CRUSH Michigan - oh, by 3 -5 touchdowns in the ROse
    Bowl.  That's how I see it.  
    
    I mean, how will Michigan score against the great Husky defense?
    
    JD

    
    	Ahem, how many "lame championships" does UW have?
    
    	I really feel for you UW fans.  I mean, it was all yours
    	to take lasted year and they choked at home to UCLA.  We
    	thank you very much! :^)
    
    	Claybone

    The real burn on this "championship" is if the Huskies QB and
    91 Rosebowl MVP Mark Brunnel, had not been hurt during spring
    drills, the Huskies would have been voted #1 at the start of the
    season, and they would still be there.  As it is, the Huskies are
    probably stronger will Billy Goat.

    RE: .527
    Yea Bob, it comes out to over a MILLION per year.  I knew there was a
    billion in there somewhere.  Anyway, I missed it and you corrected it,
    but it's still a lotta dough.
    
    
    Joe

    Claybone, as you no doubt know, the Huskies have zero champeenships.
    A couple of years ago, there was an article in the paper that humbled
    Husky fans.  The U.W. is the only school in the Pac 10 with no nat'l
    championships in any sport.    
    
    In addition, we have the perennially crappy Mariners, the always-
    mediocre Seahawks, and the ever-underachieving Sonics.  You can't
    BLAM us for going overboard with the success of the Huskies.
    
    Yeah, the Huskies pulled a major choke last year.  They've done it
    before, and will no doubt do it again.  Two years in a row, in the
    early '80s, they blew games to the crummy Wash. State Cougars to 
    miss going to the Rose Bowl.  TWICE IN A ROW!!
    
    Pete

    Butler at Pittsburg State
    Grand Valley State at East Texas State
    Northern Colorado at Portland State
    Mankato State at North Dakota State
    Jacksonville State at Winston-Salem
    Mississippi College at Wofford
    Virginia Union at Indiana of Pennsylvania
    Shippensburg at East Stroudsburg State
    
    John

    JaKe,
    
    I'm suprised that a main with your leadership and charisma
    failed to have da weddin MOVED!!!!!
    Soitenly would have been a mosted memorable event for the
    happy (for now) couple!!!!
    
    Ah's disapointed.....
    
    Kev
    

    No it ain't!
    I've personally seen A&W spend that much on LUNCH!!!!!
    
    ;^)
    
    Kev
    

    
    	I understand Pete.  I was just defending CU's lame champeenship.
    
    	I like UDubb.  My bestest buddy is from Seattle and I help
    	him root for the Huskies (exceptin of course when they
    	played CU :^)  ).
    
    	I also like to see the "havenots" win the NC (like CU did).
    	I'll be rooting big time for the Big 8 champ to beat Miami
    	so that UW can get their shot.
    
    	Claybone

      Yeah Pete, Mac's right. Personally, I think Washington would be
     hard pressed to beat one of the Florida teams but it's not out
     of the realm of possibility. If you want to feel good about their 
     record who could blame you. I mean besides JD. Even the most casual 
     follower of college football would be ecstatic to have his team in 
     the position UW is in. So enjoy and take JD in stride. He loves to 
     bash whoever is riding high whether it's Michael Jordan or Mario 
     Lemieux or the Houston Oilers or Scotty Pippen or women road racers 
     or Tommy Brydie. So you see, you're in pretty good company.
    
     [isfh]

    Mac -
    
    You are wrong on a few counts (nothing new...) - when in Boston, the
    only Sox players I got on (and the fans about), were the pre-slide
    Gedman (I look like a genius on that one!), Boggs, Clemens, Greenwell. 
    I also didn't buy the Ellis Burks as the next perennial MVP.  On the
    contrary - I usually bashed Sox fans for shortchanging the team - so
    that at the end of the year they could say "Boy, did we overachieve!"
    (something that the Broons fans and media do quite often too..)
    
    Mac - get a copy of USA today - look at the Huskies schedule.  Look at
    the teams they beat - then look at those teams (not just the record,
    but WHO those team beat.)
    
    Perfect example - the beat Kansas State (handidly) - KState is 6-4 -
    pretty good team, right?  WRONG.  They've played 4 good teams - and got
    whumped by all of them (Colorado, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Washington -
    heck, they've played a tougher sched then the Huskies!), and beat the
    likes of: Indiana State (close 1 point win over that powerhouse), Idaho
    State (Div. 1-AA, I believe), Northern Illinois (Div. 1-AA AGAIN),
    Kansas andd Iowa state and Missouri (3-6-1 on year...)  They beaten
    Standford - who was a nice 7-3 record - but who have they played?  Lost
    to Huskies, Notre Dame and Arizona.  Beat Colorado.  Beat Pathetic10
    teams and Cornell.  YAWN.
    
    At the end of the Season, FLa. State will have played 3 of the top 5
    teams in the nation (Miami, Florida, Michigan)  - Washington ZERO!~
    
    jd

    During MNF last night they were showing the college games they're
    carring this Saturday.  Washington-Washington State?!?!?!  Christ, UW
    is favored by 35 points.  I would assume most of the country will get
    the Cal-Stanford game (which might be a pretty good one) and only the 
    extreme upper Northwest will get UW-WSU.
    
    Joe  

    
    
    Tommy -
    
    Wrong as usual - but you shouldn't make judgements about someone that
    you've never, ever met.  Pete knows I'm yanking his chain - since he's
    a fellow Seattle-ite...
    
    And, take your 'bashing of the top' and map it to who I'm yanking -
    The Oilers is Doc Midnight - he knows this - been going on fer a while
    -
    The bulls and JorDan - Air Brooks.  The Huskies - Pete and Matt. 
    Etc...
    
    JD
    
    PS:  Joe - yep, WSU is the next Pathetic10 comp for the Huskies.  Ol
    Jeff Saragin will probably raise the Huskies power rating...

    Washington will have played Michigan at the end of the season and they
    were a top 5 time lasted time I looked.
    
    John

    
    
    John (Ninz) -
    
    I didn't include Bowl Games - but technically, you are right.  Who's
    FSU going to play in the Bowl...
    
    JD

    FSU is going to play Texas A&M in the Cotton Bowl.
    
    Is Ninz any relation to Dinz?  :-)
    
    John

    is Ninz any relation to Dinz?
    
    Lawwdy help us!!! Ohh nooooo!
    
    A dastistician on hallugens with a busted keyboard??????
    
    if it's proven to be true,
    That's it! I'm outa here, from now on, I'll note over in
    ::Conversations.......
    
    pray for us....
    
    Kev
    

     JD, first of all you mean I don't agree with you as usual. And the facts
    speak for themselves, it's not a matter of judgement. Whenever Jordan's 
    name is mentioned like some perverse gag reflex it's guaranteed that you'll 
    rag him down. Same with Mario. Same with Pippen. Same with the Oilers. And
    now UW. Even if the only reason you do it is to needle people (doubtful 
    given your penchant for shouting and the fact that you've stated other 
    reasons in the past) don't you think it's gotten old. I mean like *real*
    old. Like 'turn the record over let's hear the other side' type old. Like 
    'about as much fun as a sharp stick in the eye' type old. 
    

    Claybone, Tommy, Mac, et al,
    
    JD's right.  Thanks for the notes, but you've drawn the wrong
    conclusions.  I don't take JD seriously, I just have fun debating
    him in here.  Heck, we've exchanged mail laughing about it.  
    
    Pete

    Hawk -
    
    No my problem is that I won't blindly march to the beat of Madison
    Avenue, Jeff Saragin, or other so-called experts.  I see everyone as
    human beings and not supermen, or super-Gawds.  I don't put peoples -
    especially sports people, up on pedastals.   I'd rather see baseball on
    grass with no domes, turf, or DH, football played in the cold, the mud,
    the snow in grind-out, earth-shaking battles, I'd rather see the
    college bands at half-time than the inane highlight shows, I'd rather
    see hoops played the way the old Celtics/Knicks, etc played it, then
    slamma jamma,  and I'd like college football to be aligned much like
    the English/European soccer leagues are - the best in A - and they play
    each other, nexted best in B, etc...and every year, the worst in A move
    down to B, and the best in B move up.  Bowl games should go back to
    being Orange, Sugar, etc, and not "Blockbuster", "John Hancock", or
    "Poulen Weed-Eater".   Conferences should re-evaluate their membership
    - Northwestern shouldn't be int he Big10 - the Oregon Schools, WSU,
    etc, not in the Pac10.
    
    That's what my problems are Hawk (in this conference) - testestorone
    has nothing to do with.  Only those unsure of their own standing in
    life worry about such things.
    
    JD

Jd's actually suffering from newly married sindrome...HE has to be a good
drood at home so he comes in here and taunts people to release his droodidic
tendencies. If'n he didn't do it then he'd be hunched over small farm animals
spilling their entrails out and reading the fate of the Giants through them.

:-)

Personally I think the god of football demands a giants sacrifice...Maybe 
Handley :-)


Metz

    
>   That last reply was JD at his bested tongue hanging out noting style...
 
    I heard the strains of "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" playing in
    the background, myself.  Today's featured essay: "What I Believe In", 
    by Mr. JD Devlin, 4th grade Civics class, Mrs. Brydie, 6th period...  
                                     
    ;-)
    
    glenn
    

    Hawk -  Ya got that right - after I hit RETURN, I jumped in the air and
    pumped my fist a few times, yanked at my pants legs, and patted one of
    my co-workers on the bum.
    
    JD
    
    ;-)

 >>   Hey Tommy - you don't like it - next unseen my notes, then.  I do it to
 >>   half of yours.  Simple as that.
    
 >>   I'll note any frigging way I want - and you won't tell me how or what
 >>   to do.   If the mods have anything to object to, they can - and I'll
 >>   heed their judgement.
    
 >>   Ta-ta
    
       
      Whoa, Big Guy ! I told you before JD that I knew how to push your  
      buttons and I sure do. You're taking this way too seriously and I'm
      sitting here having a good chuckle. For someone who likes to needle 
      people you sure are thin-skinned. If you're really next-unseening 
      half my notes I wish you would have done it to my last one because I
      wanted to get you wound up not completetly unwound.
    
      
      BTW - Crash Davis got nuttin' on you.
    
      [mucho smiley faces]
    

    re .554
    
    > strains of "Battle Hymm of the Republic" ....'
    
    I'm roooling !
    
    DrM

    After seeing the last 2 replies, I had to go back and read JD's entry
    (usually NEXTED UNSEEN this topic).  
    
    Anyway, I think JD has a lot of good points and I agree with just about
    all of them.  

    Back to football. . . . 
    
    
    JD, the USA Poll and strength of schedule ranking for this week,
    had the Dawgs ranked 1st in the nation.  AND ONCE AGAIN, rated
    the Huskies opposition to be stronger than that of both Miami's
    and FSU's.
    
    JD, I moved to the Seattle area in 1980 from Oregon.  Until recently,
    I actually didn't like the Huskies and pulled for the Ducks and the
    Beavers (I still am a Beaver Believer).  Now, I don't tease my son
    any longer about being a 'front-runner.'  JD, I did make some good
    money betting against the Huskies.  The locals will make some crazy
    bets.

    
>    JD, the USA Poll and strength of schedule ranking for this week,
>    had the Dawgs ranked 1st in the nation.  AND ONCE AGAIN, rated
>    the Huskies opposition to be stronger than that of both Miami's
>    and FSU's.
 
    Washington's *average* opponent has been stronger than Miami's
    *average* opponent, which partially accounts for Sagarin's #1 rating.  
    Problem is, in those computer-based polls, to avoid potentially
    fallacious pre-conceptions of which are the "big" games, performance 
    in each game is weighted equally.  Which means, for the sake of 
    argument, Washington's swamping of Oregon State could conceivably 
    have been more valuable to the system than Miami's squeaker over 
    Florida State (the gap between Washington and Miami did widen slightly,
    believe it or not).
    
    Human beings don't see it that way.  Most of us throw out the games
    we know have a foregone conclusion (who cares what happened as long
    as you come away with the "W"?) and stick with the results of the 
    "big" games.  For me, at this time, Miami's victories over Penn
    State and Florida State, undeniably two of the best teams in the
    country, count for more than Washington's over Nebraska and 
    California.  I think that's the way the human pollsters see it, too.
                 
    A sloppy game by Miami in the Orange combined with an impressive
    effort by Washington over Michigan could turn some heads, though,
    including mine.  I think it's more likely that the result will be
    the other way around, though.
    
    glenn
    

    
    I'm generally READ-ONLY and even infrequently at that, but I don't see
    how anyone could say UW's strength of schedule is of the same quality
    as FSU's or even Miami's.
    
    If FSU ends the season with 1 loss (the 17-16 heartbreaker to Miami),
    they would have beaten the Big 10 champ (Michigan), the likely winner
    of the WAC (BYU), the SEC champ (Florida), and the SWC champ (Texas
    A&M).  And they came within one football's length of beating the
    Big East champ (Miami).
    
    Washington would have beaten the likely Big 8 champ (Nebraska) and
    the big 10 champ (Michigan).
    
    Miami will have beaten three top 10 teams - Nebraska, FSU, and Penn
    State.
    
    Don't see how one can look at that and claim that Washington had
    a tougher schedule.  Put Washington in the SEC and they'd struggle
    to finish 3rd in my opinion.
    
    UW got to play a comparatively wimpy PAC-10 schedule and they didn't
    even have to play UCLA.  Impressive...... not.
    
    No doubt FSU and Miami had a few patsies on their schedules as well
    but as an FSU fan, I'd be happy to have traded schedules with
    Washington this year.  I imagine Miami fans would say the same
    thing.  Having said that, I'm glad FSU did have a tough schedule
    this year and I hope they have a tough one next year, because when
    they finally win a national championship - I don't want there to
    be any doubts as to who had the best team.  
    
    Gary 

    
>   Don't see how one can look at that and claim that Washington had
>   a tougher schedule.  Put Washington in the SEC and they'd struggle
>   to finish 3rd in my opinion.
    
    Ouch!  Hot button there.  They don't play any defense in the SEC.
    Still the best conference, but at the same time overrated...
    
    glenn
    

    An independent has a shot at a tougher schedule than a conference
    member because a conference member has to play everyone (or close to
    it) in the conference.  Therefore, a conference champion is guaranteed to
    play at least one last place team because someone has to finish last. 
    An independent can play a bunch of turkeys, or it can play a killer
    schedule (ie, Florida State) or something in-between.  Comparing the
    strength of schedule between a team in a conference vs an independent
    is comparing apples and oranges to a certain extent.
    
    The true test of schedule strength for a conference member is its
    non-league opponents and its fellow conference members' non-league
    opponents.  I don't have the entire Pac-10 schedule in front of me, but
    if you want to do an accurate assessment of the strength of the league,
    throw out the league games because those will sum to .500.  Then, examine
    the non-league games and see how they did.  If the league as a whole was
    above .500 in its non-league games, and the team you're examining played
    good teams outside the league, then that's a tough schedule.
    
    John 

    
    >> And this brings up the question: Have 2 major football
    >> powers gone undefeated and untied through the bowls?
     
    > It used to happen all the time (before expansion of inter-conference
    > scheduling), but the last time was in 1969, when Texas and Penn
    > State finished 1-2 and Richard Nixon "declared" Texas his own, 
    > personal National Champ.
      
    After further review, it turns out I screwed this up slightly. 
    Penn State also finished updefeated, untied through the bowls in
    1973, the year Notre Dame won a deserving nat'l championship by
    upsetting Alabama in the Sugar Bowl.  That made it *three* seasons--
    1968, 1969, and 1973-- that Penn State finished U-U and didn't
    win the MNC.  That was back in the days when "Eastern bias" meant
    something else entirely.  You Washington fans have nothing to complain
    about!
    
    glenn
    

    
    	Why is it everybody discounts California?   They're ranked
    	in the top ten.  Their only loss was to UW.  Is it because
    	their name isn't recognized as a perennial football power
    	(at least since Chuck Muncie's days)?
    
    	They beat USC.  BTW, USC beat Penn State handily if I 
    	remember correctly.  You're touting Penn State as one of
    	those tough teams that Miami beat.  Well, they can't be
    	that tough if USC beat them can they?
    
    	Eastern bias!  Eastern bias!  :^)
    
    	Devil's Advocate Claybone

    
        > Well, they can't be
    	> that tough if USC beat them can they?
          
    A dark day indeed, Claybone.  But we'll go with Penn State's #7 
    ranking in both polls and call it a fluke.  ;-)
    
    I'm not one of the guys you have to contend with on the strength
    of the Pac-10.  It's tougher than it's been in years, in my opinion.  
    Washington is top timbre.  California *is* for real.  UCLA (who UW 
    got to skip), USC, and Stanford are moderately tough.  Okay, so the 
    'zona teams stink this year and the Oregon teams always do (Oregon 
    was a faux power last year).
    
    California better not let up on Stanford this week, though.  
                                                              
    glenn
    

    I put Cal in about the same category as East Carolina.  EC only has 1
    loss but has played a relatively weak schedule except for the win at
    Syracuse.  And they're ranked something like 14th.  It's pretty much been 
    agreed that the Pac-10 is weak as a whole this year, and Cal's 
    non-conference wins have been over Pacific, Purdue, and San Jose State.  
    Wow.  And if I remember right their win over UCLA was close.  As for
    USC's win over Penn State, I'd call that somewhat of an aberration. 
    Overall the Trojans aren't a great team and have certainly had a subpar
    season.
    
    
    Joe  

    
    	In my best black knight voice:  "We'll call it a draw!"  :^)
    
    	I was just trying to show that there are weak arguements
    	for both sides based on who beat who.
    
    	Claybone

    Cal's schedule has been weaker than UW's.  By far.  
    
    UW struggled against them - meaning that CAL could be very good - or
    the Huskies aren't that good..
    
    JD

    C'mon, JD.  The only thing close about the Cal-Wash game was the score.
    Washington thrashed 'em thoroughly.  Look at the yardage stats.
    
    The problem I have with the "logic" I've been reading in here is that
    Washington can only play the schedule it has.  I don't see that the 
    fact that the Pac-10 is having a down year should be held against 
    them.  They have handily beaten every team they've played.  If they do
    beat Michigan, they will have beaten 3 top 10 teams: Nebraska, Cal and
    Michigan.  I'd stack that up against Miami's wins anytime.  The fact
    that Washington has never had an opportunity to play the top team in
    the country is hardly their fault.  They are contractually bound to
    play in the Rose Bowl.
    
    When y'all start arguing that Cal isn't a real top-10 team is where you
    really lose me.  If you're going to start pulling out arguments like
    that, it's futile trying to make a case for Washington.  I think in 
    order to have a debate that's in any sense "fair", at the very least
    we should take the top teams as a given, and not base arguments on 
    who does or doesn't belong in there.  
    
    Pete

    
    California is a deserving Top 10 team (Nebraska won't be by the
    time it's all said and done).  For those that didn't notice, Cal
    did have some success at moving the ball on Washington's vaunted
    defense.  They have a decent QB in Pawlawski and a stud running 
    back in Russell White who could play *ANYWHERE*, and a reasonable 
    defense.  Any resemblance between Cal and East Carolina is *purely 
    coincidental* (with the names changed to protect the innocent).  
    They will beat Clemson in the Citrus.  I wish they were going to a 
    better bowl, though.
          
    Don't kid yourself about having no choice about the Rose Bowl, though,
    Pete.  That's a $6 million choice each and every Pac-10 and Big
    Ten team makes before the start of the season.  As a Penn State
    fan who's hoping a playoff is soon on the way, I understand the
    choice to join the Big Ten is one the Lions will have to live with.
    
    glenn
    

    
    Other than Washington - who has Cal played to justify them being a
    'great' team???  
    
    JD

    
    JD,
    
    	USC, that's who.  Hey, they bet Penn St. who is a great team
    	right?  :^)  Whoops!  Notre Dame beat USC.  Then, Penn St.
    	shellacked Notre Dame so no, Cal hasn't played anybody.  :^)
    
    	Stop the merry go round!  I want off!
    
    Claybone

    glenn -
    
    Great was my word...anyway - I'd predict that Penn State would beat Cal
    by at least 2 TD's if they played.   
    
    They made what I call a 'TV Hype' jump in the polls the week before
    they played the Huskies, so tha the TV folks could really hype the
    game.  Since then they've played a bunch of Pathetic10 teams, and
    inched up the ladder.  
    
    If it wasn't for a few questionable calls by the refs, Cal coulda beat
    the mighty Huskies....
    
    JD

    
>    C'mon, JD.  The only thing close about the Cal-Wash game was the score.
>    Washington thrashed 'em thoroughly.  Look at the yardage stats.
     
    Happen to have 'em (I gotta clean this office some day).  Washington 
    led in total offense, 441-329.  Pawlawski had 215 yards passing, but
    was intercepted twice.
    
    Combined with the first half of that Nebraska game (a game which 
    overall Washington was more dominant than against Cal), I have my 
    doubts about this impenetrable Husky defense...
    
    glenn
    

    if If's and But's were Beer and nuts JD would have a hell of a party...
    
    If Washington Had converted on the numerous times they had the ball
    inside the Cal 20 the game would have been a blowout. These things go
    both ways JD....
    
    The "TV Hype" jump they made is strickly in your head. I think Cal
    would have gotten a better bowl game if the Bowl reps had actually
    waited until after the ND - Penn St game. But they jumped the gun and
    the fans are left with less than optimum bowl games this new years.
    
    I really fail to see why the bolws can't wait until after the entire
    college football season in over before extending bids. They have a
    month between the end of the season and the start of the bowls.
    
    I don't cry for the Huskies because they've accepted the long term $$$
    of being in the PAC-10 over the potential choose your own bowl freedom
    of an independent. They've made their bed and now they are sleeping in
    it. I am a little disgruntled that Miami chose the Orange Bowl against
    a very inferior opponent instead of playing Florida for the State of
    Florida National Championship...
    
    I hate having to root for a Big 8 team on New Years Day :-)
    
    
    Metz
    

    
    > The "TV Hype" jump they made is strickly in your head.
    
    Indeed.  Cal jumped six spots, from #13 to #7, because six teams in
    front of them lost that weekend.  AP sportswriters have absolutely
    no agenda to hype upcoming TV games (unless JD knows something I
    don't).  Coaches in the old UPI poll were known to pad an upcoming
    opponent, however, which was one of the reasons I didn't like that
    redundant poll...
    
    glenn
    

    
    
    >>if If's and But's were Beer and nuts JD would have a hell of a party...
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    Gawd, I ain't heard that one since my grandfather died 16 years ago!!!
    
    (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    

    If the PAC10 is so awful, why are four teams in all Top 25 Polls?
    If the PAC10 is such a weak conference, how could one of the weaker
     teams, USC, beat a JD favorite- Penn State?
    If the PAC10 football is weak, why did Stanford (an JD average team)
     beat Colorado (a top 20 team).
    

I decided to do some research last night and figure out how the conferences 
are doing against outside competition, ranked opponents, and how many
of those wins came against cupcakes.  As it turns out, all conferences have
their share of cupcake games.  When I mention records against ranked opponents,
that refers to teams that are ranked as of this week and doesn't include games
against ranked opponents within the conference (i.e. Michigan vs. Iowa isn't
included in the Big 10's records vs. ranked opponents, etc.).  I did not count
Penn State as part of the Big 10 or FSU as part of the ACC.  I counted the
following teams as cupcakes: Army, Navy, Toledo, SW Louisiana, NW Louisiana,
Louisiana Tech, Cincinnati, N. Illinois, Miami (OH), I-AA teams, teams from 
the MAC, WAC, and the Big West.  If anyone doubts the WAC as a so-called 
cupcake, consider this: the WAC was only 15-15-1 vs outside competition but 13
of those 15 victories came against cupcakes (excluding WAC teams of course).
Also, the WAC is 0-8 vs. ranked teams.  Take this for what you consider it to
be worth.  


          Record vs.         Record vs.      # of wins vs.    Percentage of wins
Conf.     outside comp.      ranked teams    cupcakes         vs. cupcakes

Pac-10      17-13              3-7             10               59%

Big 10      17-12-1            2-6             6                35%

Big 8       18-13-1            1-6             11               61%

SEC         29-8               3-4             14               48%

SWC         15-11              2-3             7                47%

ACC         19-9-1             0-4             11               58%




Joe

                                                                     
    Good work, Joe.  The problem that you quickly see coming out of
    such an exercise is that there are so few out-of-conference games
    against ranked teams (less than one per conference team on average)
    that it's difficult to make any kind of assessment on the conference
    from those games (especially since it may be a conference's patsies 
    playing a disproportionate number of the tough games, as mercenaries).
    
    Still, it's telling that the Almost Close, which has one of the better
    non-con records, has played the fewest number of ranked teams and
    hasn't won a one of 'em!
    
    What do you call the teams between "ranked" and "cupcake"?  Those are 
    the teams the Big Ten is feasting on, for example...
    
    glenn
    

    Matt -
    
    Extremely easy to tell why the Pathetic10 has 4 teams in the top 25 -
    they play cupcake schedules.  The Huskies have played 2 good teams.
    Cal one.  Stanford - I give them credit for scheduling teams like
    Colorado and Notre Dame - the Cardinal is the only Pathetic10 ranked
    team with a set of cajones.  UCLA - just who the heck have they played?
    They don't even play the Huskies, ferchrisakes!
    
    Glenn - it certainly seems that over the years teams make amazing jumps
    the week before a big game, so that it can be hyped more.  Coincidence?
    Could be...
    
    How to make things better?  Change the conference schedules.  For
    instance, in the Pathetic10, don't have the Oregons and the WSU's on
    the schedules of the so-called big boys of the conference.  Make sure
    these big boys play each other (like UCLA vs. Washington...).  Schedule
    tougher outside opponents.  Then we'd see real power ratings.
    
    It's a sham that a team can beat a cupcake by 40, and have that count
    more than beating a top 5 team by a few points.  Makes no sense.
    
    JD

    It doesn't seem to me like any conference has the cajones overall to
    play a tough schedule.  There are isolated teams that do (Michigan,
    Southern Cal, Stanford) but if you take any conference, forget about
    it.  From looking at this, I'd have to say, top-to-bottom, that the
    Pac-10 probably plays about as tough as anybody.  If a team from the
    Pac-10, for example, Washington, played its non-league games against
    Florida, Florida State and Miami, they'd have to have their heads
    examined.  Without a complete round-robin schedule, someone has to be
    missed - would there be a complaint if Washington didn't play Oregon
    State instead of not playing UCLA?
    
    If you're not going to have a round-robin schedule (or close to it),
    then why have a conference?  Should the Northwesterns and Wisconsins of
    the world drop out of the Big 10 or should they just not play Michigan
    and Iowa?  Should the Oregon States and Washington States avoid playing
    Washington and California or should they say good-bye to their league? 
    Should the newly formed Big East just toss Temple out?  And, so on down
    the line.
    
    No matter how you group teams, no matter how you group students, no
    matter how you group anything or anybody, it will end up being on a
    normal distribution - some stiffs, some great ones, most in the middle. 
    If you take the top 12 teams in the country and put them in a league
    where they only play each other, it will redistribute again so that
    there will be one or two good teams, one or two bad teams and the rest
    in the middle.  You can do this complete reorganization every year if
    you want and it will still come out the same - it will just change the
    names of the good teams and the names of the bad teams annually.
    
    This is why I don't get into LDUCs about the merits of one conference
    vs another.
    
    John

                                                                     
>    The problem that you quickly see coming out of
>    such an exercise is that there are so few out-of-conference games
>    against ranked teams (less than one per conference team on average)
>    that it's difficult to make any kind of assessment on the conference
>    from those games (especially since it may be a conference's patsies 
>    playing a disproportionate number of the tough games, as mercenaries).
    
    I was also surprised at the low number of non-conference games against
    ranked opponents.  Another problem is how to decide what constitutues a
    cupcake.  I didn't classify Tulane as one although they have a poor
    record but they've played a tough schedule.  I did call La. Tech a
    cupcake even thought they have a good record but haven't played
    anybody.  And who's to say that teams from major conferences like
    Oregon State, Northwestern, SMU, etc. shouldn't be called cupcakes.
    
>    Still, it's telling that the Almost Close, which has one of the better
>    non-con records, has played the fewest number of ranked teams and
>    hasn't won a one of 'em!
    
    Interesting that Maryland is the only ACC team that didn't have any
    cupcakes on their schedule and accounted for 2 of the conference's 4
    games against ranked opponents.  The Terps also played West Virginia
    and Pitt.
    
    JD, not a bad idea about teams in a conference always playing the other
    expected top teams.  The Big 10 teams only play 8 conference games but
    Michigan will always play Ohio State, for example.  On the other hand,
    USC will always play UCLA (I assume) and Cal always plays Stanford.
    
    
    Joe

    Joe, in conferences where there isn't a complete round-robin schedule
    there are certain traditional rivalries:
    
    Pac  10	USC vs UCLA, Cal vs Stanford, Arizona vs Arizona State,
    Washington vs Washington State and Oregon vs Oregon State.  I believe
    USC vs Stanford and Cal vs UCLA are annual games as well.
    
    Big 10	Ohio State vs Michigan, Purdue vs Indiana, Minnesota vs
    Iowa, Illinois vs Northwestern, Minnesota vs Wisconsin and Michigan
    State vs Michigan
    
    SEC		Alabama vs Auburn, Mississippi vs Mississippi State,
    Tennessee vs Vanderbilt, Georgia vs Florida.  The SEC is set up so 6
    games are the same every year and 1 game rotates among the other
    opponents every other year.
    
    John

    
>    Interesting that Maryland is the only ACC team that didn't have any
>    cupcakes on their schedule and accounted for 2 of the conference's 4
>    games against ranked opponents.  The Terps also played West Virginia
>    and Pitt.
     
    Maryland always seems to be like this.  They've had the long-running
    series with Penn State (and at 1-33-1 you couldn't have blamed them
    for backing out), Pitt, WVU, and last year they sucked it up and 
    additionally took on both Michigan and Miami.  For some reason, based 
    in their eastern roots (they were playing an eastern schedule before 
    they joined the ACC and they've made every attempt to continue it
    out-of-con) and their northern location, it's always been hard for me 
    to immediately associate Maryland with the ACC, at least as far as 
    football goes.  If it weren't for hoops, they might have given the
    Big East a look see...
    
    John, I agree with you on LDUCs over conferences, with the possible
    exception of the WAC.  Mostly, I reserve my LDUCs for *teams*.  Roll, 
    Cal Bears, roll!
    
    glenn
    

    Well faithfull Power Play subscribers Jimbo went 3-2 last week 
    making money for the 12th consecutive week.  This week get ready
    to pound your man because it's RIVAL WEEK.  Oh yes teams can have
    a terrible year but if they win this big game the season is
    salvaged.
    
    Jimbo's Big ten Rival's of the week
    	take Ohio State +14 vs. MICHIGAN (A trained monkey could pick this
                                          game correctly)
    
    Jimbo's Southern Special
    	take Ole Miss +8 vs. MISS STATE (A salvage the season special)
    
    Jimbo's I wish Flutie was still playing selection
    	take BC +21 vs. Miami 	(They blew it last week but they've been
    				 good to us all year)
    
    Jimbo's Wahoo special
    	take VIRGINIA -9 vs. Virginia Tech ( I don't usually like to lay 
    					     points in a state battle but
    					     Virginia has played well)
    
    Jimbo's yearly PAC-10 selection
    	take UCLA -5.5 vs. Southern Cal	(UCLA by 21 and who really cares)
    
    Good Luck
    
    Jimbo