Conference 7.286::digital

    I've heard that our layoffs were first scheduled for 12/14,
    then changed to 12/7, then changed back to 12/14, and as of
    last Friday, was back to 12/7...so who knows?

    Heard from a level one manager that the lay offs are moved to 12/14, at
    least....

    The cuts are also getting DEEPER.  
    
    What a great time of the year to have a layoff.  Why don't people learn 
    and try to be more caring?!  Two years ago today, two days before 
    Thanksgiving, they told the Phoenix Plant it was closed.  So, now we
    are going to layoff lots of decent people who, most likely, from time
    to time gave up a piece of themselves.  I'm not saying that we should
    not cut.  Rather, these cuts needed to be made a long time ago (2 years
    at least), everyone knew it, yet we wait to cut at the holiday time...
    the season of joy and giving.
    
    GOOD LUCK TO ALL!!!
    
    Happy holidays!!!
    
    Cheers,
    Scott

This is ridiculous.   

    I've heard that they were pushed out to 12/14.  One reason stated was
    an overload of 'Human Resources" resources.
    
    As they say...it takes a batallion of people to lay off an army of
    people.

    Maybe "they" realized the psychological implications of the 7th!

Oh, now, where's your holiday spirit?  C'mon!  Everybody sing!

On the twelfth day of layoffs my manager gave to me:

Twelve months of anguish,
Eleventh-hour rumors, 
Ten official denials,
Nine weeks of pay,
Eight outside references,
"Seven-Eleven's hiring ...", 
Six-pack of Rolaids,  
Five vested years!
Four in our group gone,
Three bad reviews,
Two dates for layoffs, and 
A day to find an internal job.

>    Maybe "they" realized the psychological implications of the 7th!

	Than again maybe someone decided that it was better to have people
	living in fear for their jobs for an extra week than to get it over
	with and let those going get on with their lives and those staying
	get back to work. Part of an over all plot from within to cut morale
	first, people second and cut productivity above all.

	Or else maybe it's just that after having weeks perhaps months of 
	trying to figure out who and where to cut managers haven't been able
	to make up their minds.

	Or perhaps there is a plan to avoid making the cuts.

	Or most likely of all, the rumor is untrue.

			Alfred 

Hmm, one might think that this stuff would tend to drive people


            F R I G G I N'   N   U   T   S !!!!!!!!!

BTW, my Grammy nomination this year goes to .7! 

    .7
    
    	You made my month!  THANK YOU for giving me a laugh.  It really
    felt
    good to laugh again.
    
    Cheers,
    Scott

    Don't know if it is a delay for everyone; but for 1-800-DEC-SALE, it's
    a fact.  14 DEC 92, we're history.  No down-size, right-size....we're
    out-sized......right out the door.
    
    Normally I'm not a cheerleader for management, but I must commend
    ours.  Months ago they made a committment to us that IF our status
    changed they would tell us as soon as they knew.  Last Tuesday they
    alerted us to the fact that our district would be hit.  Today, they
    notified us that the entire district was gone, effective December
    14, 1992.
    
    My first 10 years with DEC were great; the last 3+ have been the pits.
    I have only the best wishes for those of you who do remain and
    hopefullly, those of you who remain can pull DEC out of the mire.
    
    I've considered many of you my family; I'm going to miss you goofy
    bunch of SOBs
    
    Take care,
    
    Karen
    .

	At my terminal I sat typing,
	Trying hard to fight off napping.
	When there came a slight, soft rapping,
	Rapping on my office door,
	Only that and nothing more.

	Then I sat up, startled, freaking
	Just to hear a voice a-speaking
	"Your presence now I am a-seeking,
	Seeking on the lobby floor,
	Bring your badge and nothing more"

	What is this I'm a-hearing?
	Is it the news that I've been fearing?
	Now my desk they'll soon be clearing,
	Clearing posters off my door,
	Varnished wood and nothing more.

	I bolted upright, staggered, straining
	From my head the blood a-draining
	See the hurt and shock I'm feigning
	Feigning hurt and loss galore
	Pure BS and nothing more

	Now the bloody axe is falling
	Now the perpetrater stalling
	"Personnel may soon be calling,
	Call you to another chore"
	I think, "Right pal, nevermore"

	In my beach chair I'm a-napping
	Now my consciousness is sapping
	By the soothing steady lapping,
	Lapping waves upon the shore
	Just this beer, then a few more...

    FWIW. There was a meeting scheduled (here in the field) for the 10th.
    The individual holding the meeting pished it out until the the week of
    the 14th because of "what was happening " the week of the 10th. Clear
    as the rest of the rumors huh ? :^) So my expecations are to be told
    the 7th or 8th that I'm history.
    
    RE: Ten days of Christmas. Thanks for the smile !
    
    Best of luck to all.
    

    Karen R.
    
    Tho we have never met I will miss you. 
    
    Take care. Good luck. God  bless.
    
    Gene.

    To # .7
    You can plunk on my keyboard anytime.  I'd forgotten that people still
    had a sense of humor around here.
    
    I'm history as of the 7th... I already planned the going away party for
    the group last week.  It's about time people got a chance to say
    goodbye and network a bit.  Remember good times, LAUGH (It's not a four
    letter word you know!)  I'm hopeing the people in our group show (there
    has been a VERY positive response)  So.... when in doubt, have an
    obscenely wonderful potluck lunch, invite everyone and enjoy each other
    for the times we have had.  It can't possibly hurt, and it might help. 
    Peace to all.
    
    Lorelei (aka the mad hatter)
    

    
    
    	Well what a day!  Of 91 people that were informed today that
    December 14th is their last day, I personally know 14.  I know that I
    no longer have any morale.  I could be next -- very possible, but I
    don't know.  I feel the pain of those 14 people I know who were TFSO'd
    and the pain of those I do not know.   I do have to give their managers 
    credit thou for informing them as soon as possible.  They know what their 
    fate is now and I can only hope that they can get on with their lives and 
    find employment and happiness outside of DEC. 
    
    	Many if not all these people are very talented and have close to 10
    or more years with DEC.  Some have over 15 years.  They have worked
    very hard to support our sales reps and have worked late on many
    occasions to assist a sales rep with a time critical quote.  I know the
    sales force will miss them greatly and I know I will.  They are very
    good people--keep those chins up--I wish you the best.
    
    
    Ken
    

    As unpleasant as a layoff is at this time of year we might be wise to
    remember that those of us who are not TFSOed this time are candidates
    for next time. With a smaller package.
    
    There has been an expression with which those of us who are long with the
    company are familiar. That expression is -I think- meant to underline
    an attitude that often seems present. The expression is ...
    "We're VMS and you're not"
    
    
    I think that it is time for a new expression.
    
    "We're VMS, you're not, and it doesn't make any difference"

    A bit more "gallows humor":
    
    We've been going through several rounds of (p)layoffs.  Eventually
    we'll get to the finals. However, unlike basketball or hockey, I think
    the "teams" eliminated in the first round were the winners...
    
    John
    

    I guess they're giving everyone time to get more stuff out the door...
    :-)))
    
    
    Joe

    Dec. 7-11 is U.S. DECUS in Las Vegas.  Perhaps they want to keep the
    rumors to a minimum by delaying cuts 1 week.  However, many people who
    were scheduled to attend (like me, a counterpart to a DECUS SIG, booth
    captain, giving 4 talks, setup, teardown, etc) have been told to cancel
    their plans to attend.  In some cases, others are taking there place;
    in other cases, I think we're leaving it to the customer's
    imaginations....
    
    Mary

    As far as I'm aware NAC's TFSOing notification day has not changed from
    December 7th. Maybe there is some confusion. For people who are
    officially notfified on December 7th December 14th is the first day of
    the 9 weeks 'pseudo employee' period.
    
    Dave

    For what it's worth ( I know I've personally gotten some comfort from
    it ), Mark Twain's supposed to have said:" The things I feared most...
    never happened."
    Whether or not there's life after death (opps, DEC), each of us in his
    or her own way decides, but I know for a fact that life has almost as
    many ups as downs, as many good times as bad, as many smiles as frowns
    and as many opportunities as problems. Question is, "Is it the end....
    or is it the beginning ?" Show me your answer... I'll show you mine.
    
    
                                                        Peace,
                                                         -Bob-

    the CALS Expo in San Diego is also during December 7th through the 10th...
    
    I had to cancel my trip, after going through alot of trouble for it.
    I guess it's kinda hard to tap someone on the shoulder if they're
    3000 miles away...:^)
    
    B.

    Well, my boss is scheduled to be at DECUS on the 7th so I'm probably in
    good shape.  Then again, last round, he was out on the road between
    trips to Florida and France and they flew him back for the day, so who
    knows?                             
    
    -joet

    my group was informed last wend. that is will be hit with tfso on "or
    near" the 7th. i'm new to this group, and counting the tfso's in my
    previous sales support group, this will be my 5th (count 'em 5) round
    of tfso. i' really getting sick of it.

    Re: .26
    
    Naw, you'll probably get a voicemail or e-mail message, as a number of
    people did during the previous sack.
    
    It's rather obvious that, in TNSG anyway, December 7 is still the
    day.  For example, we've been told that the LAT passwords for ZKO
    will change on December 9 (and the new ones aren't available till
    the 8th).  I just wish that management would be open about it
    instead of pretending that the rumors and nail-biting just drags
    everyone down.
    
    					Steve

    A local newspaper (Nashua Telegraph) reported last Friday or Saturday
    the headlines: "Digital to lay-off 7,500".  The text mentioned cuts
    (in the local area).  As an interesting note, a disclosed PR person
    from Digital (I forget her name and don't have the article with me)
    was quoted as saying "...the company knows of no December 7 layoff 
    plans". 
    
    True quote!!!!
    
    Hhhmmmm.  Maybe lots of people will be in for a pleasant surprise
    when Dec. 7 comes and we're all still here???

       Well, Dec 7th is the day 'the chosen' will be informed, not
    laid-off. So technically the report is a true statement, I guess.
                                  Denny

                PNS Delivered by OSAG Advanced Development:
        DIGITAL INTERNAL USE ONLY AS PER INFORMATION PROVIDER LICENSE:


  NEW YORK -DJ- Digital Equipment Corp. (DEC) is preparing to accelerate 
layoffs before the end of the year, the New York Times reported today.

  The newspaper said a Digital spokesman would not confirm the exact number of 
layoffs that are planned.  However, it reported that people inside the company 
said this week that by Dec. 7 between 7,500 and 8,800 more employees would be 
laid off worldwide, with a significant proportion of those cuts in 
Massachusetts and New Hampshire.

  Digital laid off 5,300 employees during its fiscal first quarter ended Sept. 
26.                 -0-

  Digital Equipment Corp., Maynard, Mass., said it expected to dismiss an 
additional 5,000 to 6,000 employees in the current quarter, in line with 
analysts' estimates and a company projection last month.

  The computer maker said on Oct. 14 that cutbacks would exceed the 5,300 
people dismissed in the first quarter ended Sept. 30. Those cuts included 
4,400 dismissals and 900 losses from attrition.

  A spokesman said rumors circulating within the company that layoffs will 
reach 8,800 in the quarter ending Dec. 31 ``are wrong. That's way too high.'' 
But he said a final number wouldn't be known until the end of the quarter. 
Digital employed 108,500 at the end of the September quarter.

  Jay P. Stevens, an analyst at Dean Witter Reynolds Inc., said he expected 
Digital to cut 6,500 people in the quarter but that the number could go higher.

   8:02 AM
% ====== Internet DOWvision Codes
storyCounter: 3035
Storydate: 11/27/1992
Headline: Report Digital Equipment To  Accelerate Layoffs >DEC
transmissionTime: 1018
Time: 0802
categoryCompany: DEC
categoryIndustry: I/CPR
categorySubject: N/LAB
categoryMarketSector: M/TEC
categoryGeographic: R/MA R/NME R/US

    re: .29
    
    Would this be the same Digital spokeswoman who was recently quoted
    as saying that Digital is not laying people off?  According to the
    quote, people are being "separated", not layed off.
    
    Official denials around here usually end up being true...
    

    update to .1  :
    
    just got the word that our layoff date is now back to 12/14
    (this has changed *4* times already! geeesh!!)

    Our target date is still Pearl Harbor Day. Nothing has changed from
    what i've heard. Last fridays Lawrence Eagle Tribune said 8000 people
    will be laid off by Dec. 7th. It also said that Mass. & N.H. will be
    hit the hardest. Mainly field service and repairs (NSO)...that's
    meeee!!!!!! Should all aquaintance be forgot...I guess I might not make
    it for New Years..Merry Christmas though...

    RE:  .29 and others
    
    The "local official" quoted in the Nashua Telegraph was Rona Zlokower,
    Northern New England Community Relations Manager.  The entire article
    was reprinted in VOGON news a couple of days ago.
    
    DECspeak at its best!
    
    Chet

Heard that layoffs were split between the 7th and 14th because personnel
could not handle the glut of paperwork.

    
    
    	I wonder if the talk about the 14th is just semantics. Your not
    	officailly laid off till you turn in your badge which I guess
    	for most people notified on the 7th will be 5:00 PM on the 11th.
    
    	The 14th will be the first Official lay-off day for the people
    	tapped on the 7th.
    
    						Mike
    						----

    
    What's new?  Digital still lets employees speculate and waste time.
    
    Isn't it about time to see one of those BP's messages in LIVEWIRE to
    put rumors to rest?
    
    December 7th or December 14th....  It just costs one more week. 
    
    Well....

    	I think we need to hire some more Personnel people to help handle
    the heavy load of all this paperwork...better yet, highly-paid, ex-DEC,
    contractor Personnel people!

    
    Re: "layoff" vs. "separation"
    
    For those not used to be careful about how they say things this might
    look like a joke, but to a wide audience a layoff is something very
    different from what is happening here.  The term layoff developed in
    the context of a temporary shortage or slowdown and that those "laid
    off" would be called back to work according to some formula when things
    changed.  Actually the use of "separation" as a term is the responsible
    thing to do because these people are NOT going to get calls from
    Digital some time down the road to come back to work.
    
    Steve
    

    re: .40
    
    Okay, let's forget layoff.  They've been fired.  That means they aren't
    going to be called back.  Trying to put nice words on harse actions
    really does nobody much good.
    
    tgc

After WWI it was called   Shell Shock
After WWII it was         Battle Fatigue
After the Korean War      Combat Stress Disorder
After Vietnam it was      Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome


The first Round was called Separation and Restructuring
The second round was called Transition and Redefining Business Goals
The third round was called Early Retirement and Strategic Planning
This time it is being called Headcount Reduction and Focus on Core Competencies 
Next time it will be called On-going Cyclical Resource Deallocation and
                                 Cohesive Application of Competitive Responses 
                                      with Metaphysical Certitude

    Yup.... what you said..... (.42)
    

    .40 >    Re: "layoff" vs. "separation"
    
    It is true that at least some dictionaries consider "layoff" to mean
    temporary, but I think actual usage has changed.  Probably a result of
    the fact that the industrial transitions of the early and late '80s
    have been so obviously permanent.  You can't understand the term
    "rustbelt" and think "temporary" when you hear "layoff."  Nobody I have
    yet told of my "layoff" - inside or outside the company - has thought I
    meant anything but permanent.
    
    If you want the official terminology, though, the most favored phrase
    in the the package seems to be "involuntary reduction in force," along
    with "involuntary separation" and the more concise "termination."  I
    don't recall seeing the word "layoff," so I guess official Decspeak    
    seems to agree with .40.
    
    	- Bruce  (available as a "layoff" consultant for only one more day)

    Yup.  Somewhere along the line some manager decided to fire someone and
    call it a layoff.  It became a generally accepted practice and the term
    became redefined.  The original use was obviously dishonest and deceptive.
    That is, if we look back on it.  At the time it was probably okay
    because the workers thought management planned to rehire them later.
    But, the current usage is not dishonest or deceptive since the meaning
    has been successfully altered.  
    
    It does bother me when folks decide to redefine a term and use it with 
    the new definition without telling anybody about the new definition ...  
    Terms like layoff, gay, freedom of speech, freedom of choice and so forth 
    have intentionally different meanings and implication than they did a decade 
    or two ago.  Now, those terms are associated with homosexuality, abortion 
    and pornography.  Then again, newspeak is a perfectly acceptable practice 
    (if you accept the dogma of Orwell's "1984").
    
    Steve

    There's a word for this that I haven't heard in a while:  riffed, where
    "rif" is for "Reduction in Force".
    
    
    				-- edp

re: .46,

>    There's a word for this that I haven't heard in a while:  riffed, where
>    "rif" is for "Reduction in Force".

	Well, then you must have missed reading reply .44 which stated that
    DEC has finally come around to using the industry standard terminology
    for what they are doing by referring to this by the correct term of "RIF."
    Actually, among other things, DEC is actually calling this an "Involuntary
    Reduction in Force" (or "IRIF" to be exact).  This is as if a voluntary
    RIF might be an option instead?

				    -davo
	   (who was also RIF'ed Monday and who is here to say goodbye)

    Okay, so these people who have been hit with TFSO are 'seperated'
    rather than 'layed off', meaning they can not expect to be called to 
    return to their duties. BUT, if say in the either near or distant
    future, Digital turns around again and is actually in a position to
    begin hiring outsiders again, are these people who have been TFSO'd 
    eligible for re-hire should they wish to rejoin the company and
    approached Digital themselves??
    

    It is my understanding that your records have a place to check off
    whether you can be rehired or not.  If you were fired for cause,
    most likely it would be checked in the NO REHIRE box.  I don't know
    this for a fact (official-type) but have heard something in the past
    around this issue.  

    justme....jacqui

    Re: .48:
    
    On the Termination/Retirement form, there is a Rehire/No Rehire box. 
    If it is checked "Rehire", you are eligible for rehire AFTER your
    severance period passes.  So if you get 14 Weeks, you could be rehired
    after the 14 weeks.  
    
    I dont know how this applies to those who might be hired as
    'consultants'.
    
    KO

    
    In my TFSO stuff, it says:
    
    "Upon Termination, the Termination/Retirement Information Form in your
    Personnel File will note that you are eligible for rehire after the
    period of time used to calculate your lump sum under TFSO, or six
    months from your termination date, whichever is greater.  Any rehire,
    however, shall be in accordance with the then current Rehire Policy,
    currently Personnel Policy 2.01, which indicates that former employees
    are not generally considered for rehire.  Any rehire will also be in
    accordance with the administrative requirements of the then current
    Company policy.  In addition, any work as a contract worker, consultant
    and/or vendor must be in accordance with then current Company's
    Purchasing Policy which generally prohibits such work for a period of
    one year from termination."
    
    Cq

    
   > months from your termination date, whichever is greater.  Any rehire,
   > however, shall be in accordance with the then current Rehire Policy,
   > currently Personnel Policy 2.01, which indicates that former employees
   > are not generally considered for rehire.  Any rehire will also be in
    
       Can anyone explain why former employees are not generally
    considered for re-hire?It seems that people with experience with
    DECs procedures/policies and contacts would be more valuable to the
    company that a new hire.If there was a reason for this policy before 
    TFSOs ,why isn't this policy being change?
    
                                 Rich
    
    

re Note 2238.52 by MSD26::WOJDAK:

>        Can anyone explain why former employees are not generally
>     considered for re-hire?It seems that people with experience with
>     DECs procedures/policies and contacts would be more valuable to the
>     company that a new hire.If there was a reason for this policy before 
>     TFSOs ,why isn't this policy being change?
  
        Yes, the old standard policy against rehires made some sense
        when the only way people left was either voluntarily (how
        dare they be so disloyal to an employer who is so loyal to
        its employees!) or fired for cause.

        Bob

    
>       Can anyone explain why former employees are not generally
>    considered for re-hire?

This was in reaction to a practice in the late 70s and 80s of quitting Digital,
getting a raise to go to a customer, getting raises there, and then coming back
to Digital at a salary much higher than they would have had by remaining at
Digital.

It obviously doesn't apply to today's business climate.  The Company is also
obviously not about to loosen the hiring policies at present.
    
RE: 
General discussion on getting rehired:
The whole discussion may be academic, in that they assume that there
is anyone left to rehire you...

Kevin    

    Even if a person was marked "eligible" for re-hire when TFSOd, *why*
    would DEC bother paying anyone experienced person the money they would
    expect should they return to DEC.
    
    Tch, tch, tch......here ya'll go again, trying to apply reason and
    logic to situations that defy reason and logic.  If people's experience
    and expertise were valued there wouldn't be ANYONE in the lobby of our
    facility (obviously filling out employment applications) oblivious to
    the former employees walking past them carrying boxes containing the
    contents of their desks.......right out the door!
    
    K