Conference 7.286::digital

    Joe,
    
    Becuase Digital offers so many products as a Corporation for customers,
    both our external and internal customers, it is difficult to have all
    of the product information handy. We talk to over 2500 customers on a
    daily basis. No excuses just fact.
    
    The problem of the phone system "dropping" you between menus is a
    concern and I will check it out. However, I'd like the opportunity
    to talk to you about your concerns and investigate the price difference
    that you had mentioned.
    
    Please give me a call at DTN: 264-6660 ext. 217. I'd be glad to try to
    help clear up any confusion.
    
    Mark Stevens
    Eastern States Manager
    DECdirect

    
    Mark,
    
      A response to a complaint in notes in under an hour!  I'm impressed.
      Got any openings?  I'd like to work for you.
    
    Ken
    
    

    Since it seems Direct sales are the way of the future, Joe's note
    is even more relevant and powerful. If I call DEC direct now and ask
    the same question or a slight variant what can I expect?
    
    regards, 
    
    John

    Well, infact I did call, and asked for the Quick C compiler from
    microsoft. The lady paused and asked what I would be putting it on, 
    I told her a DECpc, she then asked my cost center. After a long 
    delay (total time now is 5 minutes) She was unable to find the 
    part number but very pleasant. She assured me someone would call me back. 

    What's the bet that they ensure that they have your CC number so that
    they can make sure that you're charged for something. That's far more
    important than answering your question. NMS nms (is there an echo in
    here).
    
    Dave

    MSDOS 5.0 is also a challenge to buy and install.  I finally obtained
    the correct part number, after one week, then attempted to get support
    during installation.  My challenge involved the DECMODE commands and
    drivers for DEC printers.  If I was an outside customer, I believe it
    would have been easier to deal with ANYONE else.

I've also heard these "what's the part number?" problems from people
calling SSB in WMO.  Do we have systems that can only do an on-line
look-up by part number?  That seems insane.  Have also heard the same
complaint about the phoneperson either not being able to figure out
what the contents of the product are (in terms of media, version #,
what type of system it runs on, does it include documentation, etc.).
You'd think there would be some link to a software BOM system to at
least let them call that stuff up (maybe computer literacy is too much
to expect from a DEC employee that has to deal with customers:^().

								paul

    Some of you folks are forgetting one thing; the people at
    1-800-DIGITAL are there to take orders, i.e. they expect you to
    know the part # before you call.                  ~~~~~~
    
    The Technical Consulting Center of DEC DIRECT used to have its own
    800# (800-343-4040) still works, I just tried it.  However, when
    you call 800-DIGITAL; just listen to the menu....it tells you
    DEC DIRECT and the TCC have been combined, to place an order press
    1, to receive technical assistance (part #s), press 2....
    
    Personally, IMHO it might prove advantageous to have the TCC as
    item #1 on the menu, but then no one asked me :-)
    
    K
    

    
    	re: -2...
    	Would seem to be simple enough to do a search on a keyword
    	to cross reference part numbers/product descriptions etc...
    	/john

    
    	Re: .8
    
    	"What is" can't be an excuse for "what should be".  If the
    customers expect that someone taking orders can actually answer
    questions about whether something is for sale for not (gee, I'd
    certainly expect this if I was thinking about ordering something),
    then that's the model we need to adopt - especially since our
    *competitors* seem to be really good at this kind of help.  If we
    want to mass-market software for PCs, we need to start thinking
    that customers aren't going to have a systems and options catalogue
    in front of them and so strive for a "part-numberless" ordering
    capability.  Forcing the customers into our way of thinking makes for
    potential customers going elsewhere.  (As is evident in some of the
    previous replies already -- and those are from DEC employees no less!)
                                      
    	Incidently, if I was calling that 1-800- number, hearing about a
    "technical consulting center" option sounds like something I should
    request if I'm having a nasty technical problem with an application,
    not if I'm just trying to figure out if DEC sells XYZ for my system.
    
    							-craig

Re .0:

>         The second problem is that if one buys software "on the street"
>         for work, the rules say that there's NO WAY the company can
>         reimburse you for it.
...
>         As for me, I'm going to order QuickC for Windows from
>         MicroWAREHOUSE and eat the cost as yet another donation to
>         DEC.

I'm sure you can find someone who can tell you NO WAY as quick as you please.
But since I don't understand the purpose of the rule, for all I know, you can
also find someone who will say NO PROBLEM.

Can someone point me to an online (written) copy of this rule?
				/AHM/THX

re: .9

>    	Would seem to be simple enough to do a search on a keyword
>    	to cross reference part numbers/product descriptions etc...

Yeah...we have keyword-in-context lookups on the VTX JOBS book now,
so why should our production applications be less functional than the
VTX hack?  When i started MUMPS programming for M.G.H. in 1978, EVERY
lookup had to be KWIC or the doctors & nurses would've revolted!

re: .8

The idea of touchtone menus is good, but only if it makes life at
least marginally easier for the customer as well as convenient (or
better for call tracking or whatever) for us.  Why should the
customer have to call one number (or choose one option) for a DEC
internal part number and another to place an order?

Indeed, the larger issue is: why didn't somebody think through this
set-up and realize how out-of-line it is with what our competition
in this space provides?  This is an important effort for DEC!

								paul

    Could be that a customer will make a mistake by calling the order line
    instead of the technical assistance line.  Could be the customer's
    mistake that a sale is blown because of not knowing a part number.
    But, the customer's mistake costs Digital, not the customer, because of
    the loss of a Digital sale.  Successfully blaming it on the customer 
    doesn't add to the bottom line.  Excuses don't get results.
    
    Steve

Expecting a customer to differentiate between a technical support line and
an ordering line is Digital's mistake #1. It shouldn't matter.

Sales Reps and customers in the UK ring only one number - 0800-393200 - for
both.

We still have some way to go (we did a best-in-class comparison against
PCconnection last fiscal). But we're moving in the right direction...

								- Ian W.

ps:	There was a good article on PCconnection in Inc Magazine a couple
	of years ago. I have the copy online (or can post it here) if anyone
	wants to see it.

>  Could be that a customer will make a mistake by calling the order line
>  instead of the technical assistance line.  Could be the customer's
>  mistake that a sale is blown because of not knowing a part number.
>  But, the customer's mistake costs Digital, not the customer, because of
>  the loss of a Digital sale.  Successfully blaming it on the customer 
>  doesn't add to the bottom line.  Excuses don't get results.
  
      
    I have to think that Technical Assistance people are trained differently 
    than the normal tele-salesperson people.  Is it cost effective to have
    everyone trained to the level of the Technical Assistance people?

    I would just hope that 1-800-DIGITAL staff will just transfer people
    who need part numbers or other assistance to the technical assistance
    number and that the technical assistance people would also finish
    taking the order. As long as we are pleasant about transferring the
    customer there should be no problem. 

    Also for PC stuff, will the new "Desktop Direct" people be able to
    provide better assistance for Software as well as Hardware? 

    -Bruce

To support Ian's case the following is the case history of a call I made
yesterday (before I had seen this topic). 

I called DECdirect in the UK to ask a somewhat similar question on PC software. 
The person I got through to, on the sales line, understood my question, put me
on hold for 30 seconds or so and then came back with the right answer.  I asked
a suplimentary question which he could answer straight away.  There was no
asking about my cost centre, no 'I'll call you back sometime in the next three
days' and good clear understanding of my requests.  He also mentioned to me the
latest PC hardware offers to make sure I was aware of the recent price
reductions (which in other circumstances could well have led to a sale).

It shows we can do it if we try - well done Ian (and your team).

Regards,
Gary

    
    Seems to me that this problem might go a long way towards being
    solved of we did some benchmarking against best-in-class
    competitors in the same arena.  What we're talking about is
    an ordering and distribution system for commodity products,
    right?
    
    I think DEC should send a team of qualified folks out to
    places like L.L. Bean, Dell, etc.  Let's figure out how
    Dell manages 24 hour order turnaround, then plagiarize
    their processes.  Or how about we go make some employment
    offers to high level technical/systems folks from companies
    that have successful ordering/distribution of commodities.
    
    Glenn

One of the PC Mags I subscribe to, either 'PC Magazine' or 'PC World' has
an article called 'The Phantom Shopper' in each issue.

In this article, the writer selects some items to order, then proceeds
to call 3 to 4 mailorder houses to order the product and comment on the
service received. He also comments on the installation of the product
and return procedures.

Maybe our people should read a few of these to get an idea how things
are expected to work and what other companies are doing.

After that, then maybe a 'best-in-class' benchmark could be conducted.

Bob.

    It's colossal arrogance to pump up the expectations that we can offer
    service like DELL, and then apply to Digital model of "access" and
    "responsiveness" to the business, fail, and then ask "what
    happened?"

    People in DEC are always talking about the results that other companies
    achieve and wonder "what's stopping us?".
                                        
    They apply the methods that Digital traditionally uses (maybe they
    can't get approval to do anything else...), and we get that same (or
    greater) expenses than the competitors and a fraction of their
    revenues.
    
    If we can't match the competence and responsiveness of the people at
    DELL (or EGGHEAD or MACconnection), then don't expect the results they
    get.
    
    Can you teach an old dog new tricks?

    re: .20, and part numbers in general
    
>    Simply changing the first vocalized prompt to explicitly be "If you
>    know the part number for each of the items you wish to order, press
>    ..." might help....
    
    I'm going to start a new topic on this subject.
    
    -joe tomkowitz

re: .17,
    
>    I think DEC should send a team of qualified folks out to
>    places like L.L. Bean, Dell, etc.  Let's figure out how
>    Dell manages 24 hour order turnaround, then plagiarize
>    their processes.

    	While we're at it, we ought to look into an AI system like
    the one being proposed by one of our potential customers.  This
    system is being designed such that an entire profile of the caller
    and their company is generated on the telemarketer's screen based
    on a knowledge base and past purchase history while the potential
    customer is on the line.  The system is being designed to allow
    the telemarketer to pose intelligent questions to the customer
    which might lead to additional sales.

    	Of course, in this system, the ability to extrapolate information
    about a product without a part number would be a minimal requirement.

    				   -davo

p.s.	For more information about this proposed software solution,
    	see the HAAG::COPS notesfile (keep in mind that this potential
    	project is still in the delicate negotiation phases).

    I usually don't have much to say in this conference, but as a field
    Sales Rep, I must comment on DECdirect.  
    
    My customers and myself feel they do an excellent job.  They are
    friendly, responsive and technically competent.  The fact that they
    are not as technical as you noters are, should be understood and
    tolerated.  When one of you didn't get a good response on a PC/3rd
    party question from a person who has to answer a full range of
    questions from mainframe to licensing, from quantity discounts to The
    Education Initiative, and keep track of a myriad of on-going sales
    programs, you should be more tolerant.  
    
    Don't knock 'em.  We live and die by them.
    
    
    Ken

    re .23 "don't knock 'em", I don't think they're being "knocked" as much
    as various people stating that there are better, more efficient, more
    customer-oriented ways of performing their duties.  I *frequently*
    don't have a part number; I've always got the latest catalog, but for
    the "new" stuff (where "new" = less than 6 months!), it isn't even in
    the catalog.  I had suggested at one point that they keep their
    inventory (perhaps just the PC stuff?) on a VTX infobase, which would
    probably cut down on their employee calls by 50% or more, for employees
    trying to find out "do we sell x, how much is it", etc.
    
    I like the idea of "if you know the part number, press x".  I also like
    the idea of the "phantom shopper" (*love* that series in the PC trade
    rag); I think it might implement a few suggestions of how to improve
    the system if a few mgmt folks in DD tried that.
    
    Jon

Re: Gary's comments on UK DECdirect

Not my show anymore. I manage the Software Line of Business in the UK sub,
reporting to the same guy that Mike Swalwell (manager of DECdirect UK)
reports to. Chris Gale is the guy who product manages all the PC software,
so the credit should go to him and the PC support team.

Re: Best-in-Class comparisons

We did some work comparing the UK DECdirect operation to MacConnection, and
still have a long way to go. The ability to take credit card orders is nearly
in place. The product returns policy needed a major overhaul (we're still not
good enough, but still improving). Street pricing (nett of any DBA discounts) 
has just gone into place. Products are now being inventoried in the sub for
overnight delivery. All PC software prices are now being moved to street
levels.

We were also thinking of doing the Dell "preconfigured system with all the
software loaded" trick, but that's going to require some significant changes
in our product supply model.

For the rest of the software business, we're working with ESSB to improve
lead times... we can already mail PAKs via X.400 that arrive within 15 minutes
of the order being logged in DECdirect. With satellite transmission, we should
be able to get PAKs to customers while they're still on the phone (or download
the binaries overnight). The final step is to give customers an EDI link that
goes straight into the manufacturing plant and products shipped out without
any other intervention (John Murphy in ESSB already has a prototype of this
operational). Then there is our machine readable catalogue that can play
back demos,show video footage, etc.

We still have a long way to go... but we're trying to keep the small 
improvements flowing through.
								Ian W.

    re .0  use a misc. procurment voucher to get reimbersed and don't 
    refer to software in the discription.
    
    garry
    

    Having heard about disapppointing experiences with DECdirect telephone
    ordering and being a user of MAC Warehouse, I would say we still have
    a long, long way to go in terms of attitude, investment, philosophy of
    service.
    
    I called MacWarehouse at 10:30 p.m. one night last week. The software
    I ordered was on my back porch waiting for me when I got home from work
    the next day - no express delivery charge.  
    
    I don't think the folks that take the orders are technically versed,
    they just have the data needed at their fingertips, and know what all
    the standard questions are apt to be: price, product name, order
    number, amount of memory required, version, etc.   They are trained
    to be extremely courteous and helpful.   I am sure that they have
    an excellent data base that puts all the information in front of them
    very quickly.
    
    For things they can't answer there are other ways that they send you the 
    information.  For example for upgrading Mac memory, which is fairly
    tricky and has different requirements for each cpu model, they will
    send free video instructions. 
    You can also dial their FAX number, key in some info from a touch-tone
    phone and the product data sheet will be sent to your fax immediately.
    
    MAC Warehouse is obviously investing in the resources and technology
    to provide an absolutely leading edge catalog/telephone service.
    
    An earlier note that said "because Digital offers so many products
    for customers...it is difficult to have all the product information...
    We talk to over 2,500 customers a day...".  sounds defensive.  Are
    we making the same commitments/investments to be in same league
    as the PC and MC catalog companies?
    
    
    

Re:.-24

>I *frequently*
>    don't have a part number; I've always got the latest catalog, but for
>    the "new" stuff (where "new" = less than 6 months!), it isn't even in
>    the catalog.  I had suggested at one point that they keep their 
>     inventory (perhaps just the PC stuff?) on a VTX infobase, which would
 
This is just general question, didn't we have something for sales folks
to check on line rather than flip the sales catalog ???

In my thinking, whichever group responsible for the Sales catalog should
publish a electronic bulletin board such that in house Sales, support or
DECdirect staff can have on line access. 

Image how this will cut response time compare to manually finding from 
catalog when product variety exponentially increase every quarter.

Just my 2 cents.
Michael..

    I'd agree, that we do have a long way to go as far as providing certain
    information. No, make that timely information for anything that a
    customer (internal or external) may request. Support is needed from
    a variety of sources and resources to make us the "best-in-class" which
    was brought up in earlier notes. I could go on all day on the various
    differences 800-DIGITAL provides or doesn't in comparison to DELL, MAC-
    Warehouse, etc.. We constantly try to improve and do so, albeit a
    little at a time. Although we change and improve, it isn't fast enough.
    We recognize that. We also recognize that because we are the "visible"
    entity to our customers, that we incur criticism and questions. 
    
    With that, all we can do is highlight and focus in on areas to improve.
    Because we are dependant on many groups, from engineering through 
    distribution we feedback to them and their management to improve
    processes. Call them Digital Policies or whatever. We are impacted by
    everything ANY group does with a product, service or administrative
    process in support of selling. 
    
    The previous noter stated it sounded like we were "defensive". Well, I
    guess so. Instead of going through and pointing out problem areas,
    which will be addressed I assure you, let's try to understand what it
    would take to improve the processes, and make recommendations to help
    resolve the perceived problems at hand.
    

    Just for the record, I never got a call back...
    
    John

    Do any of you noters ever use the Digital Electronic Store? New
    products are listed in there first, as soon as they are announced. I
    believe prices are in there also, because customers with
    VT100-compatible terminals can dial in and order directly and have it
    shipped right to them. There are product descriptions in there also. I
    know because when I wrote product literature (info sheets, etc.) we
    sent them to the Store. They went "live" as soon as the product was
    announced.
    
    Kathleen
    

>    
>    I think DEC should send a team of qualified folks out to
>    places like L.L. Bean, Dell, etc.  Let's figure out how
>    Dell manages 24 hour order turnaround, then plagiarize
>    their processes.  Or how about we go make some employment
>    offers to high level technical/systems folks from companies
>    that have successful ordering/distribution of commodities.
    
    No, No !  What they should do is insist that the managers 
    (up to the VP level) call folks like CDW, MicroWarehouse, 
    PCconnection, themselves...then order a computer or peripheral.

    This would be the real education.  Sending a bunch of managers
    to the "business end" of a direct-marketer would be just another
     excuse to schmooze and pump the expense account.

    The problem is, they don't understand what these other guys offer !

    Care to speculate about the percentage of managers in this
    corporation that own and use PCs regularly ?  And I don't mean
    ones that own a dusty PDT-11 or Robin that sits in the attic....

    I'd guess less than 2% .... after all, even our CEO disdains use
    of them...

    Steve H

    The new DESKTOP DIRECT from DIGITAL direct marketing phone number
    is 1-800 PC BY DEC (1 800-722-9332) and not 1-800-DIGITAL:
    
    "you're online to expertise in PC hardware, software, spreadsheets,
    MS-DOS applications, Microsoft Windows and that's just for starters"
    
    COMPUTERWORLD p.22, January 13, 1992

    Re .27

    >We talk to over 2,500 customers a day...".  sounds defensive. 

    Yes it does doesn't it. A much more interesting figure would be, what
    percentage of the customers who call us to buy something actually make
    a purchase. Compare this figure with our competitors and we might know
    how we stand.

    Jamie.

    
    re: .32
    
    Note that I suggested (.17) a group of *qualified* people, not
    managers to schmooze and pump the expense account.
    
    It is interesting to note that that the Japanese were sending
    people out to Ford's River Rouge plant in the mid- to late
    50's to see how Americans made cars in a state of the art
    (at that time) plant.  You could consider this an early
    version of what we now call benchmarking.  Given the 
    apparent result, they were obviously doing more than
    schmoozing and pumping their expense accounts.
    
    Glenn                       

    "Benchmarking" is one technique for finding out what your competition
    does and how you can do it better.
    
    "Contextual Inquiry" involves sitting beside the real user/customer
    to experience what she or he really does or goes through.
    
    "QFD" is a method for gathering requirements from your customers
    and insuring your product/service offerings satisfy (or exceed) these
    requirements.
    
    Some folks in parts of Digital are actually doing some of the above with
    excellent results. For example see METOO::QFD conference.
    
    d

Re: .-2

Only one in five calls into DECdirect UK is to place an order. The other four
are for presales help or information. Now, can anyone tell me how this
benchmarks against the competition?

FWIW, DECdirect UK is actually larger ($ wise) that the US equivalent,
processing 50% of the subs order value and 85%+ of the order volume. Over
75% of the total UK software business flows through DECdirect... and the
catalogue design improvements resulted in 80% of the total software order
volume being tossed in the mail or on the fax. This is 180 degrees from the
behaviour on all the other DECdirect lines of business here... customers do
specify part numbers accurately when you simplify it as much as possible!

								- Ian W.

    re - a bunch
    
    I don't know what systems the operators use to look up parts and
    products, but it seems to me that STARS would be an ideal answer to
    looking for a product -or- a part number.  STARS is used by the CSC
    Call Screening specialists to route customer support calls.  It is
    fast, versatile, and easy to use (CSS's don't get much training and
    they use from day one).  
    
    (For those that ain't never heard of it,  STARS allows english level
    contextual queries from selected databases.  It works.)
    
    
    Talk about not using our own products.  Gollie.

re: .37:

I generally make about 3-4 calls to the MacConnection and its competitors
for every MacWidget I buy.  Sometimes, I'm looking for information,
sometimes for deliverabilty, sometimes for price.

Martin.

    
    re: .33
    
    I saw the news on DESKTOP DIRECT in local newspaper, Nashua Telegraph,
    yesterday, and big money was spent and outside hiring too for telephone
    support, as described in the news (next to the news of Cabletron hiring
    in Merrimack, N.H.).
    
    Wonder if DECvoice application was considered to work smart and cut down 
    the cost for taking orders? I think it could be a good show of faith in our
    own product too, our customer would believe in DEC more and buy DEC
    more...
    
    For instance, if the caller who knows all required information, such as 
    part number, etc., etc., can call 1-800-xxx-yyyy, and go through DECvoice 
    application voice menu's to finish the order.
    
    If the caller doesn't know or not sure, can press "0" to get a real
    person to guide him/her through the order, at the first voice menu.
    
    In fact, I know one customer, supposedly big in book publishing business, 
    use DECvoice application to take orders for books.
    
    What do you think?
    
    Regards,
    Edwin
    

        Can a DECvoice application upsell? I mean, in the course of a
        conversation with the customer, can it perceive a need for
    	something else and target that spot. The guy down the road at
    	Komputa-dork can. He can suggest an alternative to the 200 meg
    	SCSI I wanted to buy before I heard the price. He can tell me
    	that Komputa-dork's drives are made by Frobitz and my current drive
    	is a Gritz drive that would complement it well, so dont sell it cos
    	the scsi controller in your system can support up to 4 drives?
    	And with the money I save, I should buy some Disk utilities and 
    	backup software.
    
    	Will the 1-800-PC-BY-AUTOMOTON system catch the passing reference
    	to occasional system crashes that could be a source of real
        customer satisfaction issues. 
    
    	Will the 1-800-PC-BY-AUTOMOTON system wax lyrical about a new game
    	they've tried even when they dont sell it, but because the customer
    	asked about it in passing. What, our customers dont need this
    	type of interaction? They'd rather talk to an unenthusiastic order
    	taker who, despite trying hard, will leave soon because there are no
    	career opportunities to learn about computers within this computer 
    	company. Or talk to an unenthusiastic DECvoice system who would
    	leave except its stuck in a box. Hey, but at least the staff
    	turnover statistics improve.
    
    	Why are we again targeting the minority niche with our products,
    	systems and services. In this case, that tiny group of the world
    	community that can a. read a Digital parts book b. configure a system 
    	from it c. get past our ordering systems d. has no extra opportunities
    	or needs beyond the system they want to order.
    
    	Customer interaction is not a place to disinvest (note the use of this
    	word, it implies a lot more than the words "saving money" or "cutting
    	costs").
    

    re: .33
    
>    The new DESKTOP DIRECT from DIGITAL direct marketing phone number
>    is 1-800 PC BY DEC (1 800-722-9332) and not 1-800-DIGITAL:
>    
>    "you're online to expertise in PC hardware, software, spreadsheets,
>    MS-DOS applications, Microsoft Windows and that's just for starters"
    
    Not for internal orders, though.  We still go solely through DECdirect.
    
    Since there are now two distinctly different places in DEC where an
    outside customer may be able to get Microsoft QuickC for Windows some
    day, will the prices and delivery and such be the same?  Will we now
    publish two sets of catalogs with many of the same products?
    
    I can't believe that this question even occurs to me, but I've seen
    stranger things around here.
    
    -joe tomkowitz

    
re: .41
    
    >    Can a DECvoice application upsell? I mean, in the course of a
    >    conversation with the customer, can it perceive a need for
    >	something else and target that spot. The guy down the road at
    >	Komputa-dork can. He can suggest an alternative to the 200 meg
    >	SCSI I wanted to buy before I heard the price. He can tell me
    >	that Komputa-dork's drives are made by Frobitz and my current drive
    >	is a Gritz drive that would complement it well, so dont sell it cos
    >	the scsi controller in your system can support up to 4 drives?
    >	And with the money I save, I should buy some Disk utilities and 
    >	backup software.
    
    Whether it can upsell or not, depends on how the DECvoice application is
    implemented.
    
    The idea of working smart here is to use the computer to do the
    'mundane' part of the selling, and use human to do the 'creative'
    part, such as minding reading, or anticipating needs, etc..., as
    mentioned above.
    
    As to what DECvoice can do, you can experience it by calling the
    numbers below, you may find its potential (I assume constructive
    feedback to the demo would help our product):
    
    (DTN)223-TALK and 
    (DTN)223-1923
    
    My point in .40 is that DECvoice application for .33 is worth
    considering, good investment of time and energy to consider, because
    it's likely to give good return, and offer a way to work smart.
    
    >	Why are we again targeting the minority niche with our products,
    >	systems and services. In this case, that tiny group of the world
    >	community that can a. read a Digital parts book b. configure a system 
    >	from it c. get past our ordering systems d. has no extra opportunities
    >	or needs beyond the system they want to order.
    
    DECvoice applications (DECvoice + application) are usually offered as 
    turn-key systems, the users are application users and only need to know
    the application and how to use the telephones.
    
    In the case of a DECvoice application is taking orders, then the users 
    need to know what they want to order, and how the application works with 
    the help of voice menu's or a real person (who might do some 'creative'
    selling or might not if stuck with a person who doesn't know how on the 
    phone).
    
    I don't think that tiny group of the world community' mentioned above,
    from .41, is the only group of users of the DECvoice application.
    
    >	Customer interaction is not a place to disinvest (note the use of this
    >	word, it implies a lot more than the words "saving money" or "cutting
    >	costs").
    
    Person-to-person interaction is still possible in the DECvoice
    application as I alluded to in .40. Without the DECvoice application help,
    the persons answering the phones, say got well trained and equipped the
    right skills and knowledge (wishful thinking here), can *at best* work
    hard, but being human, when fatigued with 'mundane' type of calls too
    much, may not remember well about skills and knowlege of 'creative selling'
    when they need to.
    
    My point in .40 was really centered around 'work smart', and 'work
    smart' should translated into 'saving money' or 'cutting costs', which
    is what we need as a company in today's economic climate.
    
    Lastly, I agree that (in the same sense you use the word) to
    disinvest in Customer Interaction is not working smart.
    
    Regards,
    Edwin                                                    
    
    
    
    

Re: .-3

>         Can a DECvoice application upsell? 

You're making the assumption that the person ringing into DECdirect is the
decision maker. In my experience, around half are purchasing people. They
get rather thrown when you start one-plussing the order contents...

The place to sell-up is in the catalogue itself.
								- Ian W.

	Geez.... do you guys actually buy computers thru mail order ?

	Or are you just ordering them for your cost center by
	part number on a Digital Form ?

	How many menus on a DECtalk unit do you think someone would
	sit through ?

	"If you want a disk drive, press 1"

	"If you want an IDE drive, press 2"

	"If you want a Seagate drive, press 3"

	"If you want ..."

	>Sound of hangup goes here<

	When I order hardware and software, I discuss "The Colorado
	Memory 250 megabyte tape drive", "the power cable", "Microsoft
	Windows Development Kit".

	I may see an internal "part number" on the invoice I get,
	but when I talk to a salesman, I talk about THE PRODUCT.
	I can ask about compatibility, version info, requirements,
	what software do they recommend for application ABC, and
	so forth.

	DECtalk this market, and we lose it -- for the third and 
	probably final time.

	Put non-computer people on the phone as order-takers....and
	we lose it.

	Take orders by part number ( "Let's see, you want a PC-3MN-BX/JY,
	two PC-MEM4-JJ/JY, an EK ....." ), and this will be the
	laughingstock of the industry.  'Course, I guess that's
	the way we do things.... Gotta have SOMEBODY around for the
	world to snicker at ! 

	Steve H

    Regarding -.1
    
    You have hit the nail on the head.  When a customer wants to buy a
    product, he wants to talk product.  I personally dont want to talk to a
    DECTALK machine that you can barely understand what it says.  One would
    think that a computer company (2nd largest computer company) would and
    could do this on a more personal level.  If we dont want to hire a
    person that is technical, then we need to give them the means to do
    their jobs when a customer wants to buy "QuickC Compiler for windows". 
    Looks to me like all we need is to have this information in a data base
    that we could retrieve it with a few key words.  Then the customer is
    happy because they got what they wanted answered in only a few minutes.
    
    If we as DIGITAL dont get our act together on these issues then we
    might as well forget about that business.  I personally beleive that
    the PC business is going to be a lot (50%) of the future sales of
    hardware and software.  Return calls to customers is no good because
    that shows our ignorance.  We need to know these answers now!
    
    Rick
      

    
    Perhaps, should have 1-900-xxx-yyyy, let the caller pay what he/she
    gets, and let answerer convince the callers to call again and make
    money for DEC.
    
    Like to hear from experiences as callers and answerers inside and
    outside DEC. Hopefully, we can improve whatever our phone delivery.
    
    Regards,
    Edwin

    I tried to buy something yesterday by calling 800-DIGITAL.  It didn't
    work because I was making the call from a dtn phone in a public area of
    a Digital facility and it wouldn't allow an 8-800... call because it
    was "external".
    

I have a couple of friends who were looking to me for advice on PC's.  I told 
them about 1-800-PCBYDEC so they had me cal Gateway, Northgate, Digital, etc..
to do the technical comparisons for them while they sat beside me and listened.
My girlfriend was there too.  First I called Gateway, then DEC.  Boy, was I 
ever embarrassed after talking to the Desktop Direct group.  The girl knew next 
to nothing about PC's, told me I couldn't use DD because I am a Digit, told me 
I could get better prices thu EPP (when I asked her how she said VTX and I 
laughed and asked her if she'd ever looked at EPP thru VTX (she hadn't) and the
situation got even more frustrating and worse.  When I got off the phone my 
friends looked at me and said was that YOUR company ?!?!?  Needless to say, 
they bought another brand of PC.

   The next day I called DD again, talked to a different person.  This was much 
more satifying, even though we have no where near the configuration flexibility 
or pricing compared to the big mailorder houses.  If you buy a packaged system 
you can get a close price with slightly less/worse performance.  Ans one of my 
friends has no credit card.  Others take COD, but of course, not Digital.

Mike,  who can't believe how poorly we stack up in so many areas.

    
    RE: .48 by TOPDOC::AHERN
    
    It probably makes more sense for an internal order to call via the DTN
    264-6660. I would expect a DTN to work from any facilities public
    area DTN phones too. Not sure how the phone company bills 800 calls to
    us but if it's on a per call type basis it would be less expensive for
    Digital too.
    
    -Joe
    
             

    RE: .50  "RE: .48 by TOPDOC::AHERN"
    
    >It probably makes more sense for an internal order to call via the DTN
    >264-6660. 
    
    I tried that, as directed by VTX EPP.  I forget what the reason was,
    but I was redirected to 800-DIGITAL.  When that didn't work, I got a
    DEC operator to give me another number which finally worked.
    
    I just thought there was a bit of irony in not being able to dial an
    800 number when I was trying to call DEC from DEC.  These phones were
    in the "guest account" room just off the main lobby at LKG.  I was not
    placing an internal order.  It was for a non-profit organization of
    which  I am a Trustee and I needed to know the price in order to get a
    money order at the DCU to send with the order form.
    

Try dialing 9-1-800 Digital.  That should work.

    
      I don't know about the PBX at your plant, but here at CXO it's
    programmed to block calls on the local net if you precede the number
    with a 1. 9-1-800 would get you to an error tone when you press the 1.
    
    Greg

When dialing outside numbers in the area:

9- xxx-xxxx

When dialing DTN numbers:

8- DTN-number

When dialing outside numbers outside the local area (including 800 numbers):

8- Area code (or 800)-xxx-xxxx

When dialing over seas:

8- 011- Country code -City code -number


Scott

    Me again.  (See .0)  Well, it's six months later and the company's a
    couple hundred million dollars further in the red.  There's a new
    version of CorelDRAW! that has a bunch of added functionality,
    including a PowerPoint-like overhead slide creation piece.  Saw some
    big ads in _PC_Magazine_ for it.  It looks like something I can really 
    use, since presentations are a big part of my job.
    
    I call 1-800-DIGITAL and, again, the operator can't help me unless I
    have a part number, but she CAN give me the DTN of some technical-type
    who, of course, doesn't know if we sell it but will get back to me this
    afternoon, maybe.
    
    Once again, if I were not locked in to buying from DEC, I'd already
    have ordered it from someone else and it would be on my doorstep
    tomorrow afternoon, at the latest.  Some other software distributor
    would have reaped the benefit of the free advertising that the
    manufacturer so thoughtfully provided.
    
    -joe tomkowitz

    WHy not call 800-software instead. After all, we own them...
    q
    

    
    >>>RE .55
    
    
    Before you go bashing 800-DIGITAL "six months later", I think that 
    if you listened to the voice prompter and made the proper selection,
    you would have got the info you wanted. It seems you selected #1,
    which is for "pricing, order status, or to place an order". If you
    don't know the part number, or want product info, then selection #2
    (TCC) is the proper choice. 
    800-DIGITAL handles in excess of 10k calls per week from internal and
    external customers, the vast majority whom are perfectly satisfied with
    the service.
    
     
    

    re: .57
    
    
>    Before you go bashing 800-DIGITAL "six months later", I think that  if
>    you listened to the voice prompter and made the proper selection, you
>    would have got the info you wanted. It seems you selected #1, which is
>    for "pricing, order status, or to place an order". If you don't know
>    the part number, or want product info, then selection #2 (TCC) is the
>    proper choice. 
    
    Only DEC, out of all the places I regularly buy software and hardware,
    considers "Do you sell CorelDRAW V3.0?" a technical question.
    
    Only a DECcie would have the audacity to tell me that I'm the problem
    because I don't know the best way to get through their byzantine ordering
    system.
    
>    800-DIGITAL handles in excess of 10k calls per week from internal and
>    external customers, the vast majority whom are perfectly satisfied with
>    the service.
    
    I'm a real live honest to god customer as far as 1-800-DIGITAL is
    concerned.  
    
    1)	Nothing in this world interests any customer less than how many 
    	phone calls 1-800-DIGITAL gets per week.
    
    2)	Look back through the replies to this note and then tell me about
    	how I'm an anomaly and unimportant.
    
    -joe tomkowitz

    
    RE: .58
    
    
    >Only DEC, out of all the places I regularly buy software and hardware,
    >considers "Do you sell CorelDRAW V3.0?" a technical question.
    
    	"Do you sell CorelDRAW V3.0?" hardly fits into the catagory of
    	 pricing, order status, or to place an order.
    
    
    > I'm a real live honest to god customer as far as 1-800-DIGITAL is
    > concerned.
    
    >   1)  Nothing in this world interests any customer less than how many
    >       phone calls 1-800-DIGITAL gets per week.
    
    >   2)  Look back through the replies to this note and then tell me
    >	    about how I'm an anomaly and unimportant.
    
    
    	The point is most people don't find the phone system or selections
    	"byzantine"
            

re: .59
>                     <<< Note 1718.59 by AIMHI::MACPHEE >>>

    
I think the point of this whole string is that a customer wants to buy
a product and should not be expected or required to know a part number
to do so.

I, as a customer would want to be able to dial 1-800-DIGITAL (or whatever)
and order product X for system Y. If DEC doesnt sell product X for system Y,
then I would expect that who ever took my call would be able to tell me
that.

If you only deal with internal folks then you would/could probably get away
with such a system that you have but, not in an open market you wont.

As far as getting 10k phone calls per week, so what? how many are redials
because the caller chose the wrong option the first time?

    re: .59
    
.58 >Only DEC, out of all the places I regularly buy software and hardware,
.58 >considers "Do you sell CorelDRAW V3.0?" a technical question.
    
>    	"Do you sell CorelDRAW V3.0?" hardly fits into the catagory of
>    	 pricing, order status, or to place an order.
    
    It sure as hell isn't what any of the successful software distributors
    consider technical and take multiple phone calls and half a day to
    figure out!  
    
    OK, you tell me that the #1 option lists three activities that it's to
    be used for:
    
    	Pricing:
    		"Hi.  How much is CorelDRAW 3.0?"
    
    	Order Status:
    		N/A
    
    	To Place An Order:
    		"Hi.  I'd like to order CorelDRAW 3.0."
    
    Better?
    
    Now, if the 1-800-DIGITAL recording said, "...If you don't know the
    special DEC part number for the software you want, press 2 and you can
    hold until someone who can figure that out is available so you can
    write it down and then wait again for someone else so you can read it
    to them and they can take your order..." the whole process would be
    made clearer.  And don't try to tell me that isn't what actually
    happens.  
    
    BTW, time spent on hold on  WATS lines isn't free for DEC.  Any idea
    how much an extra half hour or so of prime-time phone bill eats into
    the profit margin on a $68 piece of software? "Cost of doing business"
    you say? How about "Throwing perfectly good money down the toilet." 
    (Obligatory bad joke: "We're losing money on these orders!  Don't
    worry, we'll make it up for it in volume.")  
    
    As far as your metrics go, I work for DEC and I'm trying to help you
    understand what's wrong with the system.  People who are just buying
    software from this company don't care how screwed up it is, they just
    go somewhere else.  I'd have to say that a lot of dissatisfied
    customers don't show up in your numbers.  I know that while I've bought
    dozens of packages over the years, I appear in the statistics of many
    companies just once, when I find that their prices are out of line,
    they can't deliver fast enough, or whatever.  They may record one "NO
    SALE", but they've really lost many times on the thousands of dollars
    of stuff I bought from other places.
    
    The sad part is that it's INCREDIBLY simple to design an order-entry
    system that would make all of this go away.  Why spend time arguing
    that the customer is wrong and instead, make it simple enough so that
    you can make money off of the most stupid person?
    
    -joe tomkowitz

    
    
    If the goal of this company is to be best in class, then the goal of
    each function should be best in their particular class. Simple?
    
    Instead of how customers are supposed to use the system, anyone can
    experience how a "World Class" company does PC business by dialing
    1-800-243-8088 - the PC Connection in N.H.
    
    You will never know THEIR internal part number for CorelDRAW 3.0 but
    you will learn everything about CorelDRAW 3.0 (or the proper rev.) you
    need to know to say "I'll buy it", or "What else should I get?"
    
    No hassle, no rerouting, one stop - complete. 
    
    Oh, and they aren't the best in class in my book, but they'll do for
    starters. The bar on customer service is quite a bit higher than many
    corporate critters realize. It's past the hurdle stage, folks are into
    pole vaulting for the lead.
     

    I've only ordered Mac software (for example, from MacConnection)
    and every interaction has been a breeze.  I cant believe the
    terrible stories that are being reported in here.

    what's worse....I cant believe that anyone would be defending that
    what we have today is GOOD....if ANYONE is complaining about it,
    and providing details of the bad interaction, someone should be
    putting a big THANKYOU in here for helping make the system better.

    I certainly wouldn't order again if I called and was told
    "BZZZZT...you punched the wrong button.....try again".  that
    would just rate a quick 'thanks you very much, click'.
    bob

    when I worked at EDS, we had a sign every where that said
    "The customer is always right, even when they are wrong!"
    
    /nasser

Or at least we tried that in the early '80's.

And judging from the problems and responses here, we still are trying to defend
the way we work rather than institute what meets customer needs.

The most recent replies have posed the question: Is a query of "Do you sell
<insert product name here>?" a question that should be reasonably answered by
the Ordering function - or by the Technical support function? My response is:
NEITHER.

I'm in the Field. I get a request from a customer for some PC software as part 
of a proposed large order. I'm not inclined to have *them* call DECdirect 
because it is not a spot order for a single thing, but part of a multi-part
order - although when the sale closes, DECdirect will get their share of the 
sale. 

The request has specific software products to be supplied. Some of them are in
the several (DEC/PC)Direct catalogs. For the ones that are not in the available
catalogs, I call DECdirect and see that I have a choice of Ordering or Tech 
support. What I need is AVAILABILITY AND PRICING. 

I am not ordering at this time so I somehow guess that Tech support is
what I want. I get connected to tech support - who - as soon as they determine
that I am not calling to order something either personally or for my cost center,
tell me to call someplace else (the regular 800 sales hotline support number).
Not that they don't have the info, not that they won't get the benefit of the
order when it happens, not "I'll answer this now but please call the sales 
hotline in the future", but, Go Pound Sand - sometimes in almost those terms.

BUT if I am ordering for myself or my cost center, DECdirect will go off for a
while and return with a part number and price. Sometimes I can hear them typing
at something which leads me to suspect that there is a database with this secret
info in it. Since our catalogs are out of sync with our offerings, having an
online <product> <DEC part number> <price> database that is accessible to us 
via the network only makes sense to avoid this series of calls in the first 
place. 

I just don't understand why basic product info in this space is just so
impossibly frustrating and time consuming to acquire - and in a low-margin
space, why we have not made it super-efficient and inexpensive to acquire.

If I am a consumer going to a vendor, I can expect to ask "Do you sell 
<product>?" and get a speedy & useful reply if the vendor is really interested 
in providing <product> and my purchasing decision is influenced by the process
of getting information in addition to the content of the information received.

What we have been saying over and over again in this thread IMO is that there 
are a couple of impediments that for customers violate their expectation of 
service and for employees run up the cost of doing business. Who cares WHY the 
thing works the way it does and HOW it got to be that way and how well it 
conforms to DEC logic! Move on to providing what is needed to secure business 
the way people expect to do business based on their experience with the world,
not just with DEC.

Sorry to be long-winded in stating the obvious for the N-th time.
Norm

    Re .57, .59:
    
    Unbelievable! (Other thoughts were originally typed here, but have
    since been self-censored.)
    
    ELF leads me to believe that you work for US Sales, Direct Marketing
    Organization, Technical Consulting Center. If that is true, you are in
    a position to take input from a reasonably intelligent DECcie, based on
    real-life consumer experience, and make your part of DEC work better.
    Please, for the good of our company, try to go beyond the defensive
    posturing and *listen* to what he has to say. Make a difference. "Do
    the right thing."

    The following is what I heard when I called 800-DIGITAL today:

         "Thank you for calling Digital Equipment Corporation."

         "For pricing, to place an order, or for order status, press 1."

         "To speak with the Technical Consulting Center for pre-purchase
         product information, press 2."

         "For PC pricing..."

    Now, a reasonably intelligent person (and I boldly place myself as well
    as JOET in ths category) might make the following assumptions based on
    this little information:

      o  I may want to order CorelDRAW V3.0, but first I need to know if
         it's available and what it costs. Note that the availability
         aspect usually is the icebreaker in an exchange of this nature:
         "Do you carry foobar?" "Yes." "How much is it?"; as opposed to
         "How much is foobar?" "Uhh, we don't sell that."

      o  "1" talks about pricing, so it may be the place to ask for
         availability (after all, one will probably not be in a position to
         discuss the former if they cannot verify the latter; see also the
         "natural" exchange format above).

      o  "2" sounds much too hi-tech to answer a simple availability
         question; "Technical Support Center" implies that they're waiting
         to answer questions like, "Can CorelDRAW make use of .GIZMO files
         in cooperation with MonkeyART?"

    This reasonably intelligent person then presses "1", only to find that:

      o  the person on the other end is not prepared to handle the most
         basic conversation related to ordering merchandise: "Do you have
         foobar?" "Yes." "How much is it?"

      o  the person on the other end of the line is not prepared to answer
         any discussion that does not start with a part number or order
         number. Can you imagine, in even your wildest substance-induced
         state, the following conversation? "Hello, Lechmere." "Do you
         carry the Sony 5-disk carousel CD player with remote control?"
         "Don't know -- do you have a UPC number?"

    Thus, from the viewpoint of a reasonably intelligent person, the system
    is not working optimally.

    After thinking about this for perhaps three minutes, I arrived at a
    stopgap measure and an optimal solution:
    
     1.  Work around the problem. A simple addition to the 800-DIGITAL
         message would at least point people in the right direction.

         "Thank you for calling Digital Equipment Corporation."

         "For pricing, to place an order, or for order status, press 1.
          Have your product numer or order number ready."
          *********************************************
         "To speak with the Technical Consulting Center for 
         product information, including product numbers, press 2."
                              **************************
         "For PC pricing..."

     2.  Fix the problem. It should be incredible trivial to supply the
         ability to reference a product by name as well as number. However,
         I'm willing to grant that this is a measurable unit of work that
         will take a measurable abount of time; thus the workaround above.
    
    Then, I went back to reread this entire string, only to find that these
    conclusions and proposals had been voiced by other reasonably intelligent
    people ---- SIX MONTHS AGO!!!
    
    On 14-Jan, a note was entered stating that these problems would be
    looked into. Has anything gotten better since then? How long does it
    take to create a cross-references database of names and part numbers?
    In the name of Wall Street, how much effort is it to re-record the
    800-DIGITAL message?? How may layoffs will it take to convince someone
    to stop calling the customer stupid and start FIXING THE BLODDY PROBLEM???
    

>================================================================================
>Note 1718.59       For a good time, call 1-800-DIGITAL.  Not!           59 of 66
>AIMHI::MACPHEE                                       24 lines  28-JUL-1992 12:27
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>    
>    RE: .58
>    
>    
>    >Only DEC, out of all the places I regularly buy software and hardware,
>    >considers "Do you sell CorelDRAW V3.0?" a technical question.
>    
>        "Do you sell CorelDRAW V3.0?" hardly fits into the catagory of
>         pricing, order status, or to place an order.

Of course it does.  The two appropriate answers are, "Yes we do and the cost is
$$$," or "No we don't, so there's no price."  Only 1-800-Digital would have the
audacity to not answer the question because it doesn't fit one of the three
catagories.

Put another way, should I go through the call director once to ask whether you
sell something and then a second time, on a different path, to order it?  How
preposterous!  No wonder I buy from PC Connection!

BobW

    To paraphrase EDS as related by /nasser,
    
    "The customer is always right, ESPECIALLY when they are wrong!"
    
    because that's our chance to learn what WE'RE doing wrong!
    
    I hope somebody call's Palmer's attention to this string.  It's a clear
    example of what we do to shoot ourselves in the foot.
    
    Dick

re: .68
    
>    I hope somebody call's Palmer's attention to this string.  It's a clear
>    example of what we do to shoot ourselves in the foot.
    
I think that Mr. Palmer would be quite enlightened if he were to participate
in this notes file. I wonder if he knows of it's existance...

    
    BTW...Some people (potential customers) will use the 'push button, auto
    systems' but, some won't.
    
    One mark of successful telemarketers - HUMAN contact. No one has hung
    (yet) because a human answered instead of a computer. 'sides, no matter
    how fast Alpha or how extensive the current AI, when all I know is that I
    want to buy that grammar checker that's been so highly rated for so
    long but, I can't remember it's name - who do you think will get my
    money? 
    
         1) What's the part number?
         2) You're probably thinking of Grammatik or Grammatik V. Are you
    interested in the DOS or Windows version?
    
    Real people. Really interested. Really informed. Really hiding the man
    behind the curtain.
    
    J.B. 

re .68

>    To paraphrase EDS as related by /nasser,
>    "The customer is always right, ESPECIALLY when they are wrong!"   
>    because that's our chance to learn what WE'RE doing wrong!

	Or perhaps:

	If Digital does it's job right, the customer never has the
	opportunity to be wrong.

					Tom_K

    This is so reminiscent of DEC in the '70's - we only do business on OUR
    terms, not those of the customer.
    
    A recipe for failure.
    
    /a

    .59
    
    
    CALL LL BEAN ask if they sell Royal Coachman fly. See how long it
    takes to get an answer, and then place an order.
    
    
    
    We are not best in class.
    
    buzz 

DEC in the '70s ? Oh, did it change in between then and now and change back 
again ?

Digital has ALWAYS been like this. That is one of the reasons why we are 
where we are today.

Sounds like Ernestine the Operator is alive and well at Digital.

It is important to stress that this should be taken as constructive
criticism.  It would be helpful if it was also given as such. Go back
and look over how we operate.  Try calling some competitors and see
how they handle order issues.  It is time to examine how we operate
and how we can make it better.

I use to buy PC software and hardware when I worked outside DEC.  When
I call to order software I expect that the person I am ordering from can
answer basic questions about the software such as the version number.
I do not expect them to tell me how to configure my PC.  A version
number is not a technical question.

The PC space is a commidity market.  Customers have usually done their
homework and know what they want.  If you do not have someone taking
the order who can answer basic questions, you have a problem.  There
are too many other competitors ready willing and able to take the
order.

My 2 cents.

-Tracy C.

    .73
    
    I could imagine that if you were to order the Royal Coachman fly
    through a system like ours you would get a pair of British knickers;
    after a while. ;-)

    Here at 1-800-DEC-SALE we also use a menu driven phone system; but
    we did extensives surveys of our customers (sales rep and account
    support), looked at our internal stats, i.e. misdirected calls and
    change our menu according to the feedback we received from the field
    and what our own reports were telling us.
    
    Our call volume is nothing to sneeze at either; a few things we do
    might aid DEC DIRECT's customer satisfaction, i.e. if someone hits
    my split and they do not want SW/HW services or licensing I get a
    brief idea of what the caller wants and then I transfer that person
    to the appropriate split within my organization and I introduce them
    to another specialist.  For those callers who can't decide where they
    need to go after listening to the menu, we do have a few Customer
    Reponse Reps (live people) who will aid in the decision making. 
    
    One of our district "norms" is not to arbitrarily refer someone to
    another number.  If some needs 1-800-TEAM-CSS or some other
    organization, we will provide the phone number but we are instructed
    to offer to transfer the call <---- most of Digital's phone systems
    allow any employee to do this.  Most sales reps do say they'll place
    the additional call themselves, but a most of them also thank us for
    offering.
    
    Karen
    

re: Best of class operations

I call MacConnection for a piece of SW.  If I know the part
number I can punch it in and my customer # and place the
order electronically.  More often than not, I don't know 
the part # because I left the catalog at home.  I also 
forget my customer # (the key to pre-stored address,
phone, and charge card info).

MC: Could we have your zip code and last name?

Me: 92504 GRANT

MC: Mr Bob Grant at 7019 Caprice ...?

Me: Yes

MC: What would you like to order today Mr Grant?

Me: MacMumble

MC: We have that in stock.  Are you still using the
Mac IIci with System 7?

Me: Yes.

MC: We show that the IIci running System 7 is having some
problems with MacMumble V1.1 and the MacMumble company
says they should have a new version available within two
weeks.  They will ship this update free to all registered
users.  Do you still want to order?

Me: Sure

MC: By the way should you be dissatisfied, Mr. Grant you
can return the SW for a full refund for 60 days.

NOTE: This conversation really happened to me and was entered
from memory.  The conversation was with the standard order
operator not a special Tech Support Line.  Numerous experiences
like this and the fact that MacConnection initiated the order
by Midnight and receive your order by end of next business
day procedure make me by all my software through MacConnection
even though they are sometimes $10-20 more than some other
mailorder houses.

We could learn from them!

    RE: -1
    
    You mean we don't do that already? Why ever not? I mean, after all
    those surveys and stuff.
    
    Laurie.

    re .80
    
    Laurie,
    
    I understand your surprise.  I too, was surprised, 16 years ago when I
    found out that nobody in Digital was charged with analyzing the content
    of customer's orders!  When I was handed the assignment, I was
    astounded that any company which made (at that time) profit in 8 digits
    could be so uninterested in the intelligence available by studying its
    own operations.  I was more astounded, when after I finished the
    project three months later, I was told that three people had failed
    prior to me!
    
    Never underestimate the ability of people to ignore what's going on
    around them!
    
    Dick

    re: .79
    
    Well, obviously their problem is that they don't handle very many phone
    calls ...  ;^)
    
    Steve

    re .79
    
    	I would like to second SANBDO::GRANT's testimonial to MacConnection
    (which is the same company as PC Connection). I'd also like to point
    out that the order-line _is_ the tech-support line.  The people on that
    end of the phone can handle most of the basic tech questions.
    
    	Peter
    
    BTW:
    	I believe that MacConnection takes in something like 2000
    calls/day, and PC Connection is triple that.  If I remember, I'll check
    my catalogue to see what the actual numbers are.
    	p

    
    
    Here's my DECdirect story.
    
    Yesterday I told a mainframe customer about a great book "A
    Comprehensive Guide to Rdb/VMS" and told her she could order it from
    DECdirect using VISA. Gave her the 800 number.
    
    10 minutes later (she was keen!) cust was back saying DECdirect needed
    the part number to be able to order it. So I gave her the part#.
    
    But that wasn't the end of the story. *I* called DECdirect to see if
    they could find the book for me. Sure enough, they did. But only thru
    the skill of the order-taker. He had to know *exactly* where in the
    hierarchy this product lived to find it. So he went into the "VMS"
    catalog. From there he selected the "book" section. Then he looked
    under comprehensive. Didn't find it. But he was persistent and found it
    under "rdb".
    
    My point is that *nobody* works this away anymore. Climbing up and down
    information trees to find infomation. At the CSC we live and breathe a
    superb product called STARS. Its a big huge text file broken into
    "articles". We issue a query, and all articles meeting that query are
    listed. Then we read 'em. STARS has an intelligent parser. So the
    query "contains accvio dump" will return the same articles as
    "containing accvio dump".
    
    I explained all this to the rep, and suggested they dump all their part
    numbers and product descriptions into STARS. Then the customer doesn't
    rely on the skill of the rep to navigate a tree structure. I gave the
    rep my name number and email address.
    
    DECdirect, pick up the challenge and call me!
    
    Simon Maufe, CCS/Colorado Springs, DTN 592-4037, CSC32::S_MAUFE
    
    
    

    Being responsive to customer calls. 
    
    A friend and former boss of mine (now TFSO-ed) before jioining DEC was
    IBM director of IS for one of IBM's geographic subsidiaries. They set
    up a database, on each and every customer. When a customer called. The
    sales rep, secretary, or whoever would get a full detailed history of
    the customer. A complete breakdown of what hardware and software that
    they had, what serious (of nay) service situations they may have had.
    It even tracked things like what foreign hardware was on the site. (In
    some cases they did better site audits of our equipment than we did.)
    
    This friend tried till blue in the face, aloing with myslef and a few
    others to get buy-off to implement such a system in DEC. Sort of like
    getting rid of bodily fluids into a oncoming breeze.
    
    Just imagine the extra business we could gain if... For every laser
    printer etc, we kept track of the approximate history of consumption of
    consumables, and called the customer to remind them to re-order. Or, go
    through each and every site that has more than one Language license,
    and do them a special deal on VAXSET. Heck, even making sure that every
    new system/workstation/whatever knows about all the products relevant
    to that which they had purchased.
    
    Easy to do, but no one seems interested.
    
    q
    

Another nice thing about PC Connection is delivery speed ... I needed a new 
high-speed modem for home (got tired of bringing in the DECmodem V.32 to get
fixed all the time, and the prices on V.32bis modems have been dropping), so
I called PC Connection Tuesday night ... make that Wednesday morning at about
12:30 am (that's right, after midnight).

The modem was delivered to me in Massachusetts ON WEDNESDAY ... about 
15 hour delivery time from Marlow NH to Eastern MA.  

I'm impressed...

   re: .85
   
   I tried to get just my local office to do this using VTX around the
   '83/'84 time period.  I had the infobase designed and even kludged
   some tools to make it easier to load the data. We were having a
   problem of just keeping track who the customer was (an AF base;
   turnovers were frequent).  We also kept bringing lots of Digital
   people who had no idea what was going on at various sites and just
   dump them there and told them to wing it.
   
   Every manager (sales, SWS, and FS) and all sales reps were against
   it.  Their reason: It was too much like being Big Brother.
   
   For crying out loud.  All I wanted was to keep track of who the
   customers were, what they did for a living, why they were a customer,
   their locations, phones, etc., what we did with them in the past,
   what we were doing with them now and what we could do with them.

    re .87
    
    Steve, I didn't see any smiley on your headline!  That sounds like
    abdication of responsibility to me.  That information is company, not
    private, property.  That's baaad news.
    
    Dick

Keeping notes on your customers is "baaad news"?

For some reason, maintaining that high quality of responsiveness is difficult.

The last two times I've called PC Connection, they haven't seemed quite
as polished as my previous experiences with MacConnection.  The first
time, a product had gone up in price, but when I asked about it, they
didn't offer it to me at the currently advertised price.  (It was a
legitimate price increase from the manufacturer, but my expectations
from them are so high that I expected them to give me the lower price,
even if it meant eating the cost).  The second time, they had to ask
again for my PC type; it hadn't been entered into their system the first time.

On the other hand, my second call was last Friday, when they told me
that the product I wanted was out of stock and wouldn't be available
until today; it appeared at my house Monday.  I'm not sure whether this
counts as good or bad.

   Gary

When I worked in DECdirect (I managed the UK DECdirect Software operation
from May '88 to May '91), PC Connection was our stated best-in-class "possible
competitor". As such, one of the implemented "gap closures" enacted from this
work was to completely overhaul the Returns-Authorisation Process, which when 
we started was running at 80+ days back-to-back. The ability to handle returns
efficiently is one of the key differentiators when mail order style channels 
lose all their other added values.

I can completely empathize with the comments about customer databases. All
the research we've done here suggests that we're addressing 16% of our total
target audience with sales communication tools (like catalogues, news updates,
etc) - and virtually all our efforts to improve this have had very limited
success.

I'm currently waiting for my teams ISO9000 training to trigger a complete
review of the way we manage this corporate asset. In the meantime, if anyone
wants a recommendation for excellent bedtime reading, see "The Great Marketing
Turnaround" - subtitled "the age of the individual and how to profit from it" -
by Rapp and Collins.
								- Ian W.

    re       <<< Note 1718.89 by SUPER::PARMENTER "Nouvelle blague" >>>
                            
    
>Keeping notes on your customers is "baaad news"?

    NO!  Failure to keep notes is bad news!  
    Now, have I made myself clear?
    
    Dick
    

   Re: keeping notes
   
   It's more than bad news.  It's disasterous.
   
   Example:
   
   One entity at the AF base is Wright Laboratories.  WL has 5 major
   Directorates with several minor ones.  The Directorate I work for has
   some 800-1000 people working for it spread across 30+ buildings. 
   There organization is broken down like this:
   
   	FI		Flight Dyanmics Directorate
   	  FIx		A Division
   	    FIxx	A Branch
   	      FIxxx	A Group
   
   
   All told, FI has over 90 divisions, branches and groups.  We work
   with each of these as a separate customer because that's how they
   view themselves.  Now take all the directorates and their offices and
   spread that across two salesreps (3 before TFSO many months back).
   
   This cannot be done without keeping very good notes.
   
   Now we are down to 1 salesrep.  The other quit and joined Sun to
   cover other directorates at WL.  Guess what we can't find?  All of
   his notes.  And I know he kept extensive notes because we worked
   closely together.  Guess what myself and the sales support person are
   trying to piece together from:
   
   	o memory
   	o various mail messages
   	o talking to all his customers
   
   Yes, they are company property and I would like to see them
   maintained as company property.

    
    
    
    
    JOE T.
    
    FYI - corelDraw- QB-YYWAD-WA V3.0 WIN (3 1/2)
                     QB-YYWAD-WB V3.0 WIN (5 1/2)
    
    
    I'd like to personally invite you to spend an entire day within THE
    TECHNICAL CONSULTING CENTER. There are several levels of customer
    interaction that YOU need to experience. I honestly hope that Robert
    Palmer does come to visit and lend his wisdom.
    
    This is a challenge.
    
    
    A I have one question; How come you did not elevate the fact you did
    not get a call back?
    

    that's right? 
    
    
    blame the customer
    
    it must be the customer fault!
    
    with all the studies
    
    and meetings
    
    we can't be doing anything wrong
    
    
    buzz

    The part # I gave in 1718.94 has changed
    new # is QB-037AD-WA,WB
    
    
    If you are interested in the procedures in handling call backs let
    me know.
    
    And Joe T. my offer is real- we have tour from both inside DEC and
    outside DEC quite often.
    

    re: .98
    
>    The part # I gave in 1718.94 has changed new # is QB-037AD-WA,WB
    
    Between 10:49 AM and 3:00 PM today, the part number (which I never
    cared about in the first place) for corelDRAW! 3.0 changed?  Why are
    you telling me this?  It seemed to have changed not long before I
    ordered it a few weeks ago, too.  Supposedly, that was why it took
    about 6 phone calls back and forth to finally order it.
    
    Maybe it's me, but this is getting silly.
    
>    And Joe T. my offer is real- we have tour from both inside DEC and
>    outside DEC quite often.
    
    Look, I'm just a principal S/W engineer who tried to order some
    software so I could do my job and had what I considered to be a less
    than rational experience while doing it.  Although I pride myself on my
    analytical abilities and such, I can't be the only one in the company
    who can save 1-800-DIGITAL.
    
    If you want me to see the operation so you can re-educate me because of
    my failures as a customer, no thank you. 
    
    If you want help and suggestions, I wouldn't mind lending a hand as
    long as my management can be convinced to spare me for a bit "for the
    cause". I've already been contacted off-line by someone else looking
    for suggestions but haven't finished my response yet.
    
    Contact me and we'll see what we can do.
    
    I'm game if everyone else is serious about it.
    
    -joe tomkowitz

This note and the one about differences in services when ordering a PC are
leading all well and good because someone at the end of the phone has access to
the network and can/may end up reading about these problems. 

		  ** WHAT ABOUT NON-DIGITAL CUSTOMERS **

I was asked several months ago by a co-worker how he could make a suggestion to 
or give comments on how his call to the PC line was handled.  (I was asked this
because my wife works in the same area but not the same department in MKO).  I
could not answer his question, the best my wife could do is get a name of
someone she thought might be in charge over there but that was not good enough
and the issue was dropped.

Why don't we have an 800 number published in the front of every catalog we ship
out just for complaints/suggestions (gee maybe even a 'good job' message might
come in)?  Kind of like the "how's my driving, call 1-800-xxx-xxxx on the back
of trucks (not DEC trucks though).

MKO2 has signs all over the place saying something about 'the customers pay
your salary'.  It appears that a few people on the ends of the phones (and that
are posting notes in this conference) need to look up and read those signs 
once and a while.

I have to believe that the vast majority of people on the ends of the phones 
are trying to do the right thing.  

bjm

    1-800-call-ken  would be good, at least through September.

    1-800-null-dev  is probably more realistic.

Stumbled on this while compulsively reading the city phone book last night:

Under Digital Equipment Corporation ...

Customer Relations
Toll-Free-Dial '1' & Then	800 326-4636


I haven't a clue how this entry-point into DEC works. But we're bothering to put
it in our phone listing.

Aren't'cha curious?

    
    THE PHONE NUMBER 800-332-4636 IS CORP CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE
    
    THIS GROUP HAS THE ABILITY TO - UMMM- SAY RATTLE SOME CAGES- WHEN
    CUSTOMERS COMPLAIN- THEY ARE A GROUP OF TOP QUALITY PEOPLE!!!
    THEY MAKE MY JOB ALOT EASIER. THE BUCK STOPS THERE!!
    
    
    FYI!!

    I work in the UK, a US friend of mine as recently asked about the 1-800
    number as a way of phoning me.  This seems to be talked about in 1891,
    but can't find that here.
    
    Is there a 1-800 number that he can call, and then gain access to DTN
    for instance ?
    
    What is the number and the procedure ?
    
    cheers
    
    Dave D.

    The 800 dtn number requires that the caller have a Dec issued telephone
    credit card. So the 800 number won't do your friend any good.
           
    Joe

    Cheers, for the quick reply
    
    Dave D.