Conference 7.286::digital

        I thought I saw a 198xxx the other day.
        
        q
        

        Yes, my wife (DCU employee) opened an account for a 200xxx
        person some weeks ago.
        
Jim Stratton
        

I always assumed that they were serially allocated, until a collegue of 
mine received a number 30,000 lower than mine -- 2 years after I joined.

Seemsd like numbers are re-issued.

/Jeff.

    There is a section in the Personnel manual which states that former
    employees who are rehired will be assigned their original badge number,
    which implies that old badge numbers are not reissued.
    
    New badge numbers are allocated in blocks, and sometimes
    the blocks are used out of order.  For example, Colorado Springs
    issued the 1400xx series of badges after the 1516xx series.
    
    	- Jerry

    RE .4
    
    You are correct -- badge numbers are issued once and only once.
     Also, they are issued to PA/PSAs in blocks of 100.
    
    -rene
    (former PA)
      

                                           

                For badge numbers below about 26000, you can get an idea
        of whether or not someone was hired before you. The "random"
        block grouping hadn't yet gotten into gear at that point. After
        that, it comes down to "your guess is as good as mine" as to
        when a badge was issued.
                
                /s/     Bob

    Then there was a block of 30K numbers that the Western Area (then
    Region) misplaced, found and issued.  They were issuing these badges
    when the 110K numbers were current.  I knew a couple of people who
    got them and it was a little disconcerting as I have a 57K badge
    number.
    
    Larry "57686" Wakeman

Re: .7

The same happened in Merrimack a few years back.

The reason why the very low (by today's standards) numbers are more
accurate indications of time in DEC is most likely because they were
centrally issued.

The size of blocks varies.  In the UK it appears that there is a relatively
large block of numbers allocated which is then subdivided.  For example,
I have a 69k badge number, but after those the next lot were something like
76k, similarly with higher numbers.

jb (Reading, England)

My 49376 was issued in May of '76.  I met a fellow with, I think, a 43xxx
or 45xxx number who had joined a few years later during the "Oh my
goodness, we have to go to 6 digits era" and DEC was looking all over the
place for unused blocks of numbers and issuing them. 

ed

In Holland we are in the 201.000 area with badge## now.
Two years ago it was teh 165.00 - 168.000 range.

(where will it stop .....)

    I've just recently returned from DECville '86 in France -- looking
    thru the list of Digital attendees, a good 10% had badge number
    greater than 200K.
    
    Jon

	Don't forget that our manufacturing plants (at least in Europe)
	are allocated numbers in groups of 1000 (999 ?).
	i.e. In Ayr, Scotland; they started with 132xxx - used up that
	lot and are now part of the way through 167xxx.

	I think the plants started out using their own numbering system
	(from 1 ?), so it was common (in Ayr), to see 3-digit badge
	numbers. The newer (photo) badges now show the 'prefix' 132.

	Also, many of the computer systems in use by the plants will only
	accept the plant badge numbers ( i.e. 132xxx or 167xxx).
	Therefore its possible to have more than one badge number.

	I relocated from Basingstoke in the UK with my 50774 number, to
	Ayr, Scotland [ i.e. from Digital Equipment Co, Ltd. to Digital
	Equipment (Scotland) Ltd. ] and I was given a new number - 167008.

	I have since relocated to Munich, and have started using my old
	number (50774). When I return to Ayr (I'm on a temp. 2-year assignment),
	I will use the other number (167008)

Joe

    
    
    	What's considered an "old" badge now? eg: I had someone look
    	at my badge and go "Wow! A 5 digit badge number! How long have
    	you been around?!"
    
    	96598 - Oct. 6th, 1980
    
    							mike

    
    Mike (or anyone, for that matter...)
    
    I was hired on 12-Nov-1979 and my badge number is substantially
    HIGHER than your's (98809).
    
    Is/was there any logic behind the numbering of badges?
    
    I think someone told me once that they would designate a whole
    block of badge numbers by department, or cost center or by
    personnel dept., but I can't remember...
    
    d
    
    
    

    Yes, the badge number is no longer directly related to hire date.
    For instance, our area is still issuing badge numbers in the range
    of 175XXX, yet I know that there are badges over 200000 in existance.
    I don't know exactly when the change occurred to reserve blocks
    of numbers for specific sites.
    
    Bruce (175910 - May 12, 1986)

    
                             180106  - Aug 22 '83
    
    In the UK, of course...

    There are two people I've run into here at CXO1 that have badge
    numbers in the 21xxxx range.
    
    BobW 151698 Nov 21, 1983 (USA)

    
    
    {Drum roll please....}
    
    
                Frank Sapienza
                Badge Number 213433
                Employment began March 9, 1987
                Long Island, New York
                 (that's LIO for you postal types)
    

    Yes, blocks of numbers were allocated to sites starting around
    badge number 75000.  Then, as we approached the magic 100000,
    they started reissuing low numbers so as to give the MIS departments
    enough time to change the software.  If the badge number is much
    higher than 80000, it's hard to say when they were hired.
    
    		Steve (79506, 2-Oct-1978, Tewksbury)

    Heh, I remember that I tried to get into the Mill in '84 and was told
    that my badge was obviously fake because there was no such badge
    number. 
    

    re .20
    
    Considering the fact that I've gotten into MLO by, accidentaly,
    flashing a blue & white matchbook, I can't believe someone
    actally read your badge #. 8-)
    
    Bob Mc
    4285  Oct 67

                Refer back to .6 again (yes I know it's a year old, but
        the info hasn't changed - nor will it).
                
                /s/     Bob

    
    
    I was told that badge numbers are issued in groups depending on
    where you work...mine is 215413 with hire date 5/11/87.  I work
    at CXO1 (colo springs).  A person in my orientation had the next
    number after me, but the numbers were somehow preassigned beforehand.

    Comparing my badge #18190, hired in Oct 72, to one of my fellow
    employees, 104 I am a new kid on the block. This badge # belongs
    to Norm Rheault. I do not know when he first came into the company.
    
    Dave  In LKG
    

Re .25:

Either 104 is not his correct badge number, or there is an error in the ELF
database (as well as other databases, perhaps).

Rather than drag this conference down with a list of the other 100000+
active badge numbers, I suggest that people check to see if their site's
library has the badge number list on microfiche.
				/AHM

    Anyone know what Dick Best's (of the famous 'Dick Best,
    Option/Module List') badge number is?  
    
    Someone told me long time ago that he had badge number 26.

    
    Jodi-  #47649
    Hired in Southern Calif., Feb. 2, 1976

     Can someone (perhaps Andy  Leslie?)  please explain to me why non-US
     DECies  have  >2< different badge  numbers  (one  US  and  one  Home
     Country)?
     
     The only reasonable theory that I  have  is  that many of our non-US
     operations  are  legally  separate  corporations  and  perhaps  each
     "Corporation" uses their own numbering system.
     
     Thanks,
     
     Len 110090 (28 April 1980)
     

    Beats me, Len, I only have the one.

Norm Rheault is 105, not 104, and Dick Best is 20, not 26.  There's a badge
number microfiche in almost every site library (including LKG).

Not all non-U.S. employees have two badge numbers.  Canadian employees have
both a Canadian number and a corporate number.  Some employees in some U.K. and
Ireland locations have two badge numbers out of the corporate numbering sequence
because of some brain-damaged local I.S. software that will only believe numbers
in ranges that were assigned locally!  At least one of these employees that I've
talked to recently actually has TWO ELF entries as a result.

/john

    There are some people in the UK that have only non-US badge numbers.
    When trying to register some people for DECworld, we found the local
    system could not handle the foreign badge numbers because there
    might be duplicates here in the US.  Of course it's a catch 22,
    cause when trying to register them in Europe, we find they have
    a problem registering European people that work for a US cost center...
    
    bill

               <<< HUMAN::WRKD$:[NOTES$LIBRARY]DIGITAL.NOTE;1 >>>
                          -< The DEC way of working >-
================================================================================
Note 181.30                Badge # 200000 issued yet?                   30 of 32
LESLIE::ANDY "CSSE M.E. for Digital's OSI Products"  12 lines  31-JUL-1987 00:48
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>< Note 181.27 by NEWPRT::NEWELL "Does the noise in my head bother u?" >
>                                 -< DICK BEST >-
>    Anyone know what Dick Best's (of the famous 'Dick Best,
>    Option/Module List') badge number is?  
>    Someone told me long time ago that he had badge number 26.
    
    Close, but no cigar. His badge is #20.

    European ELF servers will give you badge numbers.
    
    Simply DEFINE ELF$SERVER01 "STIKIT::""41=""" and look whomever you
    want up.    

The UK is now issuing badge numbers in the 23xxxx range.

jb

    I was at an off site meeting for 3 days last week, one of the men
    has a badge # of 33.  Yes, it is his real badge, he is one of the
    very first to say "DEC".

    Mine is 95809 (7/16/79)

       Met a guy who started 2 months ago. He's in 300,000's.
    He works in Andover, Mass. 

    One time I stopped at the security desk and another person came
    in - after hours, have to register.  "What's your badge number?"
    He said something like "217".  I waited for the next half - and
    waited, and then clued in.
    
    I used my Digital badge for ID at the Post Office once and the man
    said his wife worked for Digital when it started - double digit
    badge number.
    
    (Me?  188178  10/13/86  MKO)

    It's getting stranger as we get bigger.  I was asked for badge
    the other day and said '55084'. There was a pause, and the
    other person said 'you mean ZERO 55084'.
    
    whatever....
    

    
       How about this, I just registered someone new to our group with
    ELF, badge number 300281! 
    
       Does that mean we need a new note?
    
    
    	John
    

    RE .37 & .38
    
    Badge numbers are six digit fields
    And the leading zeroes shoul be used in giving badge numbers.
    

    printing the leading zeros is to reduce the incidence of
    low badge number envy???

Re .40:

Only if you are talking to a Cobol program.


Or if you ARE a Cobol program.
				/AHM

    I have never been asked to supply a leading zero in my badge number
    and have never done so.  It seems silly to me.
    
    			Steve

...and to this day I write ML and PK and ZK, not MLO or PKO or ZKO.  Just be-
cause some minds are too small to encompass the notion of a variable-length
field doesn't mean I have to shrink mine to their level.

							-- Jerry

    re .40
    
    My badge has always been 20681!!! not 020681.. I am now working
    for field service and the badge number field is 6 digits, left
    justified. suppressing leading edge ZERO'S.! 
    
    Now shipping plants are two (2) digits in length so if MLO shipped
    anything to us, we would report it as ML.
    
    I RXed the new Part Numbering book the other day and it's talking
    about 16 digit part numbers. Rev levels included in the part number.
    Now that's progress, especially for the field. Looks like a lot
    of computer programs will need changing. 
     

    
       How many zeros?!  Put yourself in Ken's shoes back twenty some-odd
    years. Your about to start up this here company, Digital Equipment
    Coproration. Besides stock, and all of the other startup considerations
    did Ken have to decide, in advance, how many employees he would ever
    employ, and therefore how many leading zeros to put on the badges...
    
       "....Yes George the numbers 000078 so that we can hire number
    999999 some day around March 15 2247!....."
    
       I think not!
    
    	John
    	  (lets all laugh!)
    
    

Much to my chagrin, my badge has the leading zero on it.  I find it
offensive that a company that has devoted its 30-year history to making
computers accessible to ordinary humans prints leading zeros on badges. 

But to balance my comment with good news:  I read recently that the
Employee Master File can now accept accent marks and so forth in employees'
names.  Can anyone confirm this report?

Oh wow, half the company is going to be right-justified with leading
zeros and the other half left justified with nothing after.  Boy, are
things gonna get messed up.  Maybe we'll actually have to use names.

If they want me to write my badge number with a leading zero, I'll
give it to them in octal (so my C programs can read it).

032356.

	Martin:

>       032356.
	      ^ Why a decimal point after an octal number? I thought
        you would know better.

        Bob
        
        90908 with no leading zero on mine

    
    	Here at the CSC/AT, we are required to obtain the badge number
    	 of anyone who calls into us. (so we know if it's *really* a
    	 DEC employee, or a customer trying to get free service)
    
    	Anyhow, I've never talked to someone who said `my badge number
    	 is 00xxxx.  So far, the lowest badge number I've had was
    	 a 3 digit number, 6xx.  No leading zeros, etc.
    
    
    				-Rich
    

	I just saw cost-center report with all of the badge numbers
	as SEVEN-digit fields with leading zeros!!!

	Talk about plans for expansion!

Frank 0145150

    re .47
    Yes my badge has leading zero.

    re .42, .43, .45, .46
    Welcome to the new DEC!
    
    re .50
    Since I got my picture badge (July 1985) I always give my badge
    number as 042142 and say it in a three charater cadence.

    Regards to u all,
    	042 142FF

    Badge numbers are now up to over 300000.  I saw for 303xxx.
    
    Sigh...

  Because of a typographical error, my badge, 90,000-ish, became 
900,000-ish for a few weeks.

  Does that count for anything ?

    RE......18 badge # 213433
    
    You joined in March 1987.I joined in JUNE 1987 with a badge # of
    206617.I work in France.Alot of distance and difference.
    
    
    Jeff

    What a FASCINATING topic!  And MY MicroVAX is BIGGER than YOURS!

    Surely the boast is  ........
    
    mine smaller than yours 8-)
    
    [ not to be taken the wrong way 8-) ]
    
    MArk Lawson  92748

    Perhaps we should devote this topic to DEC status symbols?
    
    Is it still a VT100 in the "field"?

    VT100 ??????????
    
    and I felt great that my VT52 was just delivered!
    
    	-Barry_43355-
    

                BTW - "now" (as mentioned in .-1) started almost 15
        years ago. 
                
                You can tell the comparitive "age" of badge numbers of
        less than 20000 pretty much for sure (except for those that left
        and returned, they get their old ones back). From 20000 to about
        26000, it is a little more fouled up but still reasonably good
        (I'm in this group at 14 1/2 years and counting). Above that,
        they started really spreading the blocks of numbers assigned to
        a personal dept or plant around and it is only possible to get a
        rough (and as time went on it got rougher) indication.
                
                /s/     Bob

    RE:  .60
        Yes, VT05's, how about LT33's or real modern LT35's. Also 11/05
    had just started shipping, making the 11/20 out of date. For disks
    we had DF32's, RF11's, the RK05 (no J or F) was only up to ECO
    number 10. It had just replaced the RK02/03 (there was no RK04).
    The RP02 was the real hot ticket. Followed a short time later by
    the RPR02 and RP03. Anyone work on the RK01? The LA30 came out within
    a year and the PDP8M and PDP8F where shipping like hot cakes. The
    corporation was "Going Down the Tubes" as we bought the RCA corporate
    computer headquarters and moved the PDP10 group into it. We where
    trying to preserve the "OLD" DEC by not moving any managers into
    the "GLASS TOWER". The Cafe was great and even had "real" food.
    Westfield had just doubled in size as had Westminister. It was pizza
    and Beer for making the quarter at the Westminster VFW.
    
    Yes, those where the 2xxxx days.  March 5th (first time) 1973 
    March 21, 1983 (2nd time). The only reason I took the job in the
    first place was a friend of mine had just seen an article about
    a young upstart company called DIGITAL (Not the watch company) in
    Engineering Times. It was about 500 million and looked like it might
    last several years and worth the move from Minnesota to Mass.
    
    	Regards
    	Greg
    	20681 by the way. and yes I was a 100% vested before I left.
    
    

    I don't know what the policy is now,but when I started with DEC,and
    some years thereafter,you didn't always get your old badge back
    if you quit then came back.The rule was:(I guess it was one of those
    loosely interpreted rules) If you were gone for a year or less,you
    got your old number,more than a year and you got a new number.I
    have a friend currently working in Acton who didn't get his old
    no. because of that.
    
    

    But I know of at least 2 people who were gone for more than 1 year
    who DID get their original badges back.
    
    Mark.

    I had a 5xxx number when I started in Puerto Rico, but when I 
    moved to the states they put an 8 in front. Now I'm an 85xxx.
    A quick 80K jump. Wish my salary moved at the same rate.
    
    - John
    
    

re: old badges

The policy now is that *everyone* gets their old badge number back.  This 
even applies to people who left, came back, and got a different badge 
number.  The reasoning appears to be that Digital needs to keep all your
records in one place, and that place is identified by your badge number. 

People who have two badge numbers can get their older one back by going to 
Personnel, and letting them know.  Personnel will then start the process.  
(I understand that this can only be done once a year, in December.)  I know 
a person who did this two or three Decembers ago, after having a second
badge number for more than 10 years. 

This may or may not apply to .-1, depending on whether the badge he had in 
Puerto Rico was a corporate badge, or a local badge.  Some parts of DEC do 
their own badging.  I remember talking to people in Canada who had both a 
Canadian and corporate badge number.

Ray

    I was drafted out of DEC into the Army back in 1968 and when I came
    back in early 1969 they assigned me a new badge number but when
    my first paycheck arrived it had my old badge number so I went to
    personnel and then they issued me another badge with my old number
    on it.  I wonder what happened to the 2nd (new) number they assigned
    to me.

    I have a 6 digit badge #, issued at the Mill 11-24-86 (205863).
    Someone I know works very closely with badge #'s, etc. and expalained
    the whole story to me.  In the beginning, badge numbers were issued
    by when you were hired, no matter where you worked.  For ex., the
    seventh person hired by K.O. had badge #7.  As DEC grew and personnel
    began to have "regional" areas such as MKO, MRO, ATO, NYO, etc.,
    each area was assigned a range of numbers to use, which each area
    delegated to their PA/PSA personnel in blocks.  This is why I have
    a higher badge number than a co-worker who was hired in Merrimack
    6 months after myself.  
    
    Badge #'s are used to identify one particular person throughout
    all areas of the company, just like a social security #, therfore,
    they are not re-used.  If you leave DEC and are later rehired, you
    should receive your original badge # - if you don't, contact personnel.
    Retirees often (might be always, I'm not sure) receive a gold badge
    with their badge # to be used after they turn in their regular one.
    This allows them access to DEC facilities, and also allows them
    to still take advantage of offers from retailers, etc. that require
    you to show your badge.
    
    This is something similiar to the way invoice & DEC number ranges
    are assigned to various finance depts.
    
    An interesting note, some areas used to have their own badges -
    the Airport building in Nashua had a blue airplane on a white
    background & the Mill had a picture of the Mill Clock.  Occasionally,
    I still see one of these around, but a few years ago, security decided
    to make everybody get the gray & white ones - My dad is working
    on his 4th ? badge - the next one will probably be gold!
    - Becky

    The colleges I went to all use SSN as id numbers.  Are there any
    advantages of using a different number for DEC badge?
    
    eugene 

    re .70
    
>        The colleges I went to all use SSN as id numbers.  Are there any
>    advantages of using a different number for DEC badge?
 
    
    Here are a couple I can think of:
    
    1) SSNs are 9 digits. A little cumbersome for forms, etc.
    
    2) Digital is a worldwide company. Social security #s are issued
       U.S. residents/workers.
    
    Dick
    

    Re .70:
    
    Disadvantages of using social security account numbers as
    identification numbers include:
    
         It reveals your social security account number to people
         who have no business with your social security account.
         
         Congressional and other government investigations have
         determined it is dangerous to use social security
         account numbers for other purposes (e.g., Privacy
         Protection Study Commission), although political
         maneuvering as prevented making these recommendations
         into law.
         
         There are people with more than one account number
         (legally). 
         
         Some account numbers have been issued to more than one
         person.
         
         Some account numbers are used by more than one person.
         (078-05-1120 was used by at least 5,755 people.)
         
         Social security account numbers are used in so many
         other applications that they are extremely revealing of
         people's private matters.
    
    The Department of Health, Education, and Welfare recommended "That any
    organization or person required by Federal law to obtain or record the
    SSN of any individual be prohibited from making any use or disclosure
    of the SSN without the informed consent of the individual, except as
    may be necessary to the Federal government purposes for which it was
    required to be obtained and recorded.  This prohibition should be
    established by a specific and preemptive act of Congress.".  The
    recommendation was never carried out.  This report, prepared in 1973,
    specifically mentions employee identification numbers just before
    making the above recommendation. 
    
    
    				-- edp 

    Re .72:
    
>    Disadvantages of using social security account numbers as
>    identification numbers include:
    
    Don't forget:

	You'll hit one of edp's hot buttons.

    And you'll hit one of mine, too!!!!!!!

    Mine too, I don't even have an SSN !
    
    In Canada, we have SIN's...
    
    Scooter