Conference turris::womannotes-v3

    I live in the East and my ex swore up and down that he would 'NEVER' pay
    me child support.  Well he's been paying for almost 11 years now and
    knows that if just sneezes the wrong way I'll take him to court.  I'm 
    getting VERY minimal money for three teenagers, however, I'm getting
    something.  I don't believe in bleeding him dry, neither do I believe
    he should get off scott free.  They ARE his children too.  So I take
    what I have and count my blessings.  Many of my friends are not so
    lucky.
    
    However, I do not believe that geography has any bearing on the
    situation.
    
    Only my opinion you understand.
    
    Estelle
    

    I live in the East, have never lived anywhere but Hudson, Nashua, and
    Merrimack, N.H. I pay $75.00 a week total for 2 children who are
    currently 16 and 14 years old. I've been paying since 1984 and have not
    missed a payment. Occasionally, I have skipped a week and doubled up
    the next week. This is generally due to circumstances like weather. If
    a snowstorm or heavy rain storm is going on and I can get right home, I
    go home and either go over the next day or, if my schedule doesn't
    permit that, then ASAP, but no later then the next payday.
    
    The reason weather is the largest factor is that it is a 3 mile walk
    from her place to mine, she won't give me a ride, and there is no
    public transportation towards my end of town. Except cabs and I AIN'T
    PAYING THEIR FARES. 
    
    Another factor to consider is if she is available. This weekend, she is
    out of town and I will not give the money to anyone else. Not the kids,
    not her parents, certainly not to her husband. I will wait until next
    Thursday and double it up. The kids want for nothing, so I'm not real
    concerned that they will go hungry. 
    
    Her availability is a real concern to me. I pay cash and once when she
    was away, her mother was watching the kids. I gave the money to her so
    she could have some for the weekend to take the kids shopping for food
    and shoes. They needed new schoolshoes. She said I never gave her the
    money. Luckily my kids said she was lying and I had indeed given her
    the money and more on top of it to make sure she had enough. 
    
    So you see, ya gotta be real careful, 'cause some of us payers are
    trying to do the right thing by our kids and sometimes there are real
    legitimate mitigating circumstances and sometimes we getting ripped
    off. This is not to say that there aren't plenty of slimes out there
    that just ignore the kids, don't pay any money or give any other kind
    of support. There are plenty. Just wanted to say that were not all
    bastards.
    
    PJ

    I also live in the northeast and receive child support.  My ex is
    supposed to pay me every week, but pays every other week and told me
    that's the way it will be from now on.  I receive the minimum for two
    babies (both in diapers).  He has never once offered to buy them any
    item of clothing, shoes, coat and told me last week that as long as he
    has to pay "me" (not to support the kids or pay for daycare) he will
    never get a good paying job.
    
    It wouldn't matter what part of the country I lived in, if he didn't
    pay child support, I would take him back to court.  I have a mortgage,
    daycare, and all of the other expenses to pay.  In essence, I get $100
    a month to suppor the kids and that doesn't go far.
    
    That's my two cents.
    
    

a relative of mine went to see a lawyer to make sure that his child support
arrangements were kosher and that he could maintain his rights to shared
custody of his daughter without being subject to the whims of her mother (and
the whims are due to anxiety, first-kid-itus, rigid beliefs, and anger at the
dad).  The lawyer was THRILLED to have a dad visit him, seeking to have his
custody and support arrangements confirmed, instead of trying to squirm out of
them.

another relative had her ex start paying child support only one month before he
tried to wrest full custody of their 2 boys to himself, instead of the shared
custody already arranged and endorsed by the court.

it runs the gamut.  Don't assume all men are gonna drop their kids like hot
potatoes.  When one does, attach his salary, go after him gung ho.

Sara

    My ex is supposed to pay me $100 a month for my son.  He paid for
    the first 3 months (and late I might add) because he was still in
    the military and I talked to his C.O. about it.  This was instigated
    when my son was a newborn.
    
    My son is now 7 and a half and that first 3 months is the only support
    I've seen.  Do I go after it?  No.  According to Cal. state law he
    must pay at least half of all back child support before he may have
    visitation rights.
    
    He has never and hopefully will never see his son.  But that large sum
    of money is my insurance policy that he won't want to anytime soon.
    
    
    
                                      L.J.

I, too live in the East and have what I believe to be a fair arrangement with
my ex..I pay her weekly, may have to give her less on certain weeks should a
major/minor calamity arise, but always catch up the following week..I am never
in arears, except for the aforementioned unexpected calamities, and the kids
are well taken care of.  The first check I write after payday is my child
support check..I never view it as "paying" my ex.  





Jim

    I live in the East, my ex owes  me nearly 30,000. and I am taking him 
    to court through the State of NH Dept of Human Services.  He paid for
    a short while, 5 years ago, until he realized I would never go back
    to him.  
    
    I don't think geography makes a difference; the statistics in NH for
    non-support are very high.  
    
    I may also point out that there are women who don't pay support either,
    it's not just the men.
    
    It's beyond me why a person would not feel obligated to help support
    their own flesh and blood, but I'm not wasting my time speculating, I
    am taking action!
    
    Kim

    re .5
    L.J. I had to reply to you.  When I was divorced in 1976, I was awarded
    $95.00 a month.  Well, I didn't see my ex or the money for the next 12
    years.  I also felt that as long as he didn't pay me that he wouldn't
    see his son.  When my ex reappeared my son wanted to meet him and the
    counselors said it would be detrimental if I prevented it, that my son
    would end up hating ME.  So, I allowed it and then it was decided to
    let my son go live with his father, at which point that scum went on
    welfare and now *I* have to pay child support.  The only way I can get
    my money is to hire an attorney, go to Superior Court and get an order,
    send it to Child Support Enforcement and have them garnish his wages (yes,
    he is working now). OR, I could  bring my son back to live with me,
    which isn't really an option.  There is NO justice........
    
    Karen

LJ, Karen, go visit lawyers.  Is there a way to extinguish the parental rights
(legally, now) of a parent who's a no-show non-supporter for 12 yrs, to prevent
what happened to Karen?

Hugs, Karen.

    
    	After the court Judge ruled that my ex pay me child support of a
    wopping $15.00 a week, I received nothing for a full year.  I went
    back to court to finalize the devorce last month and the Judge ordered
    her to now pay me $25.00 a week because we found she was lieing on
    her income and also ordered that the money be taken out of her pay
    check.  I got the very first check from the IRS yesterday.  I hope
    it continues.  I have to take her back to court for contempt in
    Sept for what she owes me from before.
    	Its funny, $25.00 a week.  I spend that on him in one day.
    
    
    	Hal

    re .9
    Thanks for the hugs.
    I tried to have my ex's parental rights stripped years ago and no
    lawyer would touch it.  Also, my son wants to be with his father right
    now, and I can't deny him the right to know his father.  I could hire
    an attorney at $125/hours, go to court and get a judgement against my
    ex and then garnish his wages.  I just don't want the consequences.  My
    ex only makes $5.00 an hour and my son would have to come back and live
    with me.  That would create a bunch of resentments in my son against me
    and we all know what an angry teenager can be like.  I don't have
    to pay that much and I would rather keep the peace with my son.  There
    is more to this than what I am saying here, but trust me when I say
    that for today this is the best way.  I will say that having to pay the
    child support stinks and yes it is extremely unfair.  But when I weigh
    all of the issues against one another, this seems to be the best way to
    deal with it.  If my son comes back to live with me before he is 18,
    then I will definitely go after my ex for child support.  I won't have
    to go through the courts, I can just file the paperwork with Child
    Support Enforcement.
    
    'Nuff said,
    Karen

My SO pays child support on 3 kids and doesn't miss payments. He also takes his
youngest every weekend. We live in the west. My own father, on the other hand,
didn't pay support and left my mom stuck with it all. We lived in the midwest
then. Because of that, I wouldn't be involved with a man who would desert his 
kids. I still am very distant towards my father because of that. liesl

    Karen & Sara,
       One of the last letters I received from my ex was an arrangement
    in which he gave up all rights to his son.  The problem with this at
    the time was that he had it backdated by about a month.  There was
    a clause in the document that said I would never again try to contact
    him or his employer.  If I had signed he could have sued me for
    breaking that contract becuase of the back date.
    
       It wasn't a mistake either...I sent it back to him and asked for
    the correction to be made before I signed it.  I got one call where
    I picked up the phone and he said, "You F***ing B****, when did you
    learn to read legalese?"  I didn't have a lawyer on my side...no money.
    He then hung up and I have never heard a word from him since.  He lives
    way over in Maryland and I've heard has kids and wife now...so maybe
    I'll luck out and he'll never see his son.
    
       And if my child ever wanted to see him I would let him.  I haven't
    told him what a jerk his father is, nor would I.  I just told him we
    didn't get along.  I have raised my son with such values that if he
    ever did meet the man he'd dislike him.  He won't like wife-beating,
    ignorant, bigots.
    
    
    
                                      L.J.

    I live in the East and my ex has never voluntarily paid child support. 
    It is court ordered, he does not pay, the court does not inforce it. 
    Please read note 137 (I think my two notes in there are .6 and .8) 
    This will give you a little insight into how bad it is here.
    
    Colleen

    My apologies, I failed to tell you that my note is is
    Non-Custodial_Parents.  I am the custodial parent but it was placed
    there is reply to someone elses note that is NCP.
    
    

    In answer to LJ.  Can anyone tell me what law that is in California.  I
    would like to research it.  Find out how such a law managed to get on
    the books.  The fact that a parent does not support their children, in my
    opinion, is a sure fire example that he/she does not care about the
    children.  And therefore, I agree that they should not have rights of
    visitation or anything else for that matter.

    It was over 2 years ago that I brought to court the "termination
    of child visitation" by my 2 kids' father.  It took a year and he
    lost visitation.  Reason being that he failed to obey rules set
    by court, such as supervised visitation, and that eventually led
    to termination, then I split town and hit the road to California.
     I felt at the time, that their dad was totally uncapable to taking
    care of those young kids back then.  He wasn't abusive but neglectful.
     It was one of the hardest things I ever had to do, 'cause I knew
    that he loved them but his head was just nowhere and there was no
    talking to him.  I didn't know if I was doing the right thing for
    my kids either, but I felt that if the court ruled in my favor,
    then I was probably doing the right thing for that particular time.
     It's very, very hard to win a "termination of visitation" and it
    is not based on getting or not getting child support.  He owed us
    quite a bit, but that was not allowed as an issue, in the state
    of Georgia.
    
    Now, that my kids are older, 7&9, and (the ex and I are in
    reconciliation, long story, and too crazy) (and we decide again
    that we can't cut it then) I will let him take care of the kids
    on his salary alone.  He'll know what I went through then.   (His
    head is in another era now and he seems to have cleaned himself
    up) 

    Thanks for the enlightening information.  We are hoping my ex will
    vanish.  He is both abusive and neglectful but the courts say that
    regardless they will not take visitation away, they will not give
    supervised, they pretty much won't do anything.  We don't want the
    support we just want him to stop hurting the children.  
    
    Colleen

    
    re .18 -- sounds dreadful.  I can't imagine how awful it must
    be to have the courts be so unfeeling in the face of abuse and neglect
    (and then say that they care about the welfare of children).
    
    Here's hoping for the best possible outcome for you and your family.
    
    Justine

FWIW - I found the same sort of thing in Colorado.  My ex was abusive
to my daughter and because I couldn't prove it the court approved 
visitation on the basis that it would be more harmful to her to not
be allowed to develop a relationship with him than take the chance that
he might abuse her again.  It's an awful feeling to know that there's 
very little you can do to protect your child because it's "THE LAW".

Nanci

    
    from another side-
    
    I live in the East and I pay my support every week. The "ex" recieves
    almost $1,000.00 (YES ONE THOUSAND) PER MONTH. I have been back to
    court several times over several issues and on 2 occasions she wanted
    an additional $75.00 and $125.00 per week. She works full time, is now
    remarried and recieves support from me. My 2 boys are 9 and 6 years
    old.
    
    VISITATION ?
    
    I have been denied visitation more times then some fathers see their
    kids. I have missed once in 3 1/2 years (except visitations denied) due
    to car trouble, (I was on the way to pick them up, incidentally). I end
    up paying support twice everyother week, because I have my sons thurs
    over nite and everyother weekend. This amounts to 5 days (thurs-mon)
    and I still have to pay her AND feed,entertain,provide home etc..
    Tell me this is fair.... 
    
    ABUSE/NEGLECT  ?
    
    I have 4 cases filed with my DSS on the former and not a thing was
    done. Was it ligitimate filing you ask ? You better believe it was.
    Getting "back at her", NO, I'm not like that, but I do want to see my
    sons with NO interference from her !! Last interference ? Last thursday
    . 
    
    In Summary-
    
    No, I don't thing geography has any bearing on support paying. I
    strongly feel it's in the person's heart and mind. I love my sons
    and DO NOT mind paying support. What I do mind is, she uses it on
    herself. YEP, I end up buying clothes for them on top of payments,
    pay medical expenses because she won't (is court ordered by the way)
    and crys poor mouth. I work 3 jobs to survive while she lives on approx
    $70,000.00 a year with her working,him working and me paying support.
    Someday my sons will come live with me. They are already telling me. I
    don't bad mouth their mother to them, (although some times I'd like
    to).
    
    one last note:  Visitation has NOTHING to do with paying support or the
    lack of paying support. I read quite a few notes where visitation
    is/was/wants to be cut off because support wasn't/isn't paid. Yes,
    there are some real scum bags out there BUT, we are NOT all scum bags.
    Those who are, I'd like to get !!!!!!!!!!!! This bugs me to no end !!!
    
    sorry for the flame...
    
    
    Doug (a_father_who_cares_and_DID_NOT_TAKE_OFF)
    

>    one last note:  Visitation has NOTHING to do with paying support or the
>    lack of paying support. I read quite a few notes where visitation

Depends on the state.  In California, as LJ (I think it was) reported,
being in arrears on support payments can cause the debtor parent to lose
visitation rights.

I also know that in certain counties of this state, just being *late*
on support payments is sufficient grounds to have the court order wages
attached.  Takes no hearings, nada: the owed person can have papers filed
with the court that the ex- was late on payment, requesting attachment;
the judge signs the order, it gets delivered to the employer.  Boom.

DougO

    Although I live on the west and my son's father has never paid a dime,
    I really don't think that it has anything to do with geography.  Like
    L.J. in note .5, he hasn't seen his son either.  It was a choice that I
    left up to him and he knows that he's letting quite a little bank build
    up.  
    
    I personally never wanted any money from him to begin with, just for
    him to be a good father to Danny, unfortunately he couldn't do either.
    
    Kelly Costello