Conference turris::womannotes-v3

I'm a little confused about how far your definitions of Best Friend and Good
Friends overlap. You'll have to do the mapping for me. I have one honey, two
very close friends, and a bunch of friends, and even more
folks-I-enjoy-certain-activities-with.  Are my close friends Best Friends?
There's two of them, and I don't think we're soul mates. But I we'll probably
always be quite close. I can share less of my feminism with one; I can't think
of anything I'd be uncomfortable sharing with the other.
	Mez

>I'm a little confused about how far your definitions of Best Friend and Good
>Friends overlap. You'll have to do the mapping for me. 

It's like love - you can't define it.  You can describe it, roughly, but you
can't tell someone else if they are experiencing it or not.  You'll know it
when it happens.  :-)

So, if you call them Best Friends, they are!

The point is that, whatever the words you use are, it seems like men are less
inclined to develop very close, intense personal relationships with other men.

D!

[ps: I didn't mean that my description of my relationship with my best friend
     was supposed to *define* Best Friendship...I was just sharing some of
     my own experiences.  Your mileage may vary.]

Sharing "best friendship" is an intimacy.  Honesty, a degree of love,
trust, caring, and openness are usually present between two people if
they are best friends.  I don't believe it's just a female phenomenon, 
because my best friend is a gay male.

Carla

    
    my 'best friend from college' and my 'best friend from high school'
    do not live near me. the former lives in california and since i hate to
    travel, especially to california, i see him rarely. but when i do, we
    take up where we left off. the other lives in new york and i see him
    when i go east to visit my family. he and i were roommates for a while
    in pittsburgh; and almost killed each other. again, when we do get
    together, we're still in sync. i consider them both 'soul mates' and
    when we get together, it usually *is* just to sit up all night talking.
    we have no secrets. lauren knows both of them and they get along 
    famously, but they are definitely *my* 'best friends'. 
    
    for many years i was 'best friends' with a former lover. she and i have 
    recently drifted a bit. my 'best friend in pittsburgh' has been difficult 
    to keep up with. and i have two friends from high school that might be 
    considered 'second best friends' who live on the west coast and i see
    rarely.
    
    i'm not sure i have any 'best friend' in seattle. these things take
    time. and, of course, i'm here with lauren.
    
    on balance, i feel terribly fortunate. these relationships are
    difficult to maintain and nurture.
    
    as to this phenomenon with men as a class, i couldn't say. these are
    all friends i've had for many, many years. nowadays i'm not
    particularly interested in men and put alot more energy into my
    relationships with women.
    

    Mike
    
    I think you may be right about telling secrets..
    women, in my experience have a geater need to share stuff
    that is important to them than men do.
    
    Bonnie

    I was amazed at the different definitions there are regarding the term
    "Best Friend".  I only have one and consider myself extremely lucky.  I
    have several "Good Friends" and lots of "Friends", and many, many,
    "Acquaintances".
    
    I explained in a previous note that my best friend has lasted a lot
    longer than my two husbands combined.  I had always thought that my
    husband would be my best friend, but that was when I was in my twenties
    young and immature and before my divorce.  My husband (now) is a 
    "Good Friend" and I think he always will be.  But....my "Best Friend" 
    is a female.  And without her friendship all these 29 years, I don't 
    think I would have made it.
    
    So to you Diane out there-----THANKS!
    
    "j"     :-)
    
    I have also said that when I died, I would like to know that I have one
    "Best Friend" and so far, it looks like I will.
    
    It is interesting what the definitions are.  I think this is not just a
    female phenomenon, but I think men and women have different attitudes
    towards who they consider their "Best Friend"
    
    All I know is that I am glad that I at least have one!
    
    "j"

re. "how can anyone live without one?"

THANKFULLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have neither the desire nor the intestinal fortitude to share everything
with anyone.

As I would never expect one person to meet all of my emotional needs, neither 
would I share all of myself with any one person.  And it's not so much that I
hide things as it is that a lot of stuff just never comes up.

Certainly, there is nothing that I hide from Rick; but a large part of my life
has absolutely nothing to do with him.  He knows quite a bit about it, probably
more due to exposure and duration than interest; but not all.about it.

Which is not to say that my relations with people are cold or sterile -- far
from it.

  Ann

    This is a really interesting topic to me.  Best friends are rare and,
    to me, different from "friends I do things with and talk to".  After a
    certain amount of time with a friend, either you break through to a
    different level or you don't.
    
    I have three women I call "best friends," and one in particular who is
    my Best Friend.  (Part of this, I'm sure, is that we see each other
    more frequently and neither of us is involved in a love relationship,
    which does take time and energy.)  I can talk to her for hours and not
    ever get bored.  She will openly say "well, enough about you, now back
    to me!" if she has something that she REALLY needs to talk through, and
    I'll do the same.  We know each other's moods -- when to joke, when not
    to joke.  We are very different in how we approach life, but respect
    that and find it fascinating!  Both of us have changed in response to
    knowing the other.
    
    We've also noticed that we need a certain amount of time alone together
    to maintain our friendship -- it becomes strained if we always have a
    third person around.  For instance, she has a close friend she rooms
    with who I like tremendously, but when he is ALWAYS included in what we
    do, she and I start to feel disconnected from each other.  We're
    starting to recognize the pattern, and see when we need time together
    to get back on track.  I always feel charged and happy after talking
    with her!  
    
    My other two best friends are very different.  One I roomed with for
    many years -- she's now married and has an extremely time-demanding
    job.  When I visit her, we basically pretend we're still rooming
    together -- no "entertaining," just puttering around doing chores and
    talking. That's the stuff that makes us feel connected.
    
    The other has incredibly deep ties with me.  We were best friends for
    three years in middle school (ages 13-15), then she moved across the
    U.S. and we lost touch.  I've seen her three times in the last ten
    years.  It's unbelievable to me how close I feel to her, even though we
    only see each other every few years and don't call or write much. 
    Within a half day of seeing each other, we are in sync again.  
    
    I think getting close friends like this is part luck, part work, and
    part time.  To me, it's very similar to getting a close romantic
    relationship.  All my best friends have been women, so far.
    
    I think that for me a Best Friend is someone who knows you at a really
    deep level and you know them, way down.  You care about them as much as
    you care about you.  It's not "doing things together" only.  I think
    there's different degress of what's called Best Friends, but for me
    there has to be an openly emotional component that is hard for men in
    our society to share with other men.  Women, on the other hand, find it
    to be NECESSARY to share that side of themselves, whether it's with
    women or with men.  Men who have those types of friendships, in my
    experience, usually have them with women.  
    
    One thing that just occurred to me is that I know I have a best friend
    when we start talking about the friendship itself.  When we start
    acknowledging and sharing what it is we get out of being friends.
    
    Pam

    I think my two closest friends, so far, in my life have been my
    mother and my daughter.  I don't say that just because I have loved
    them most or because they are my mother and my daughter, but because
    I really feel that besides being my mother and my daughter they
    have been my closest friends.  Currently, my two best friends are
    my daughter, who is 16, and a 47 yr. old male engineer!  (one day
    awhile ago I realized that and I thought, isn't that weird..I never
    thought, when I was a teenager, that when I was a woman that my two
    best friends would be a 16 yr. old girl and a 47 yr. old man!)
    
    I think some men do form close friendships with each other, and
    that some men do feel the same need most women do, of sharing their
    innermost feelings with a friend.  I remember that one male friend
    that I was close to at one time once said, "I can't believe the
    things I've told you!  I've told you things I've never told anybody
    else, not even either of my wives!"  (I remember I felt good about
    that.)
    
    At each stage of my life I've always had 3 or 4 very close female
    friends, but I've never had that just one special *best friend*
    where we each knew we were each other's best friend.  I think I've
    always wanted to, but I've never really met another woman that I
    felt I had that much in common with, so I've had to sort of split
    it up amongst a few close friends.  And, since I've been an adult
    I've had just as many close friendships with men as I have women.
     I think it is easier to have close friendships with unmarried people
    since married people always have to have their spouse have priority,
    especially with male friends.  Male friends often seem to have wives
    or girlfriends who don't want them to have close female friends.
    
    Lorna
    

    I love this topic!  I've had a smile on my face since beginning
    with the base noter just thinking about my VERY best friend.
    
    We've been friends for at least 25 years and have been through a
    lot together.  We are so in tune with each other, and are very
    comfortable together (like that one pair of jeans that fit better
    than all the others).  
    
    We call each other to share *personal* good times or bad.  But our
    friendship is just between us.  Our families, or other friends do
    not enter in.  We're comfortable being arm in arm, walking in a
    field, sharing hopes, dreams and realities.  I really love my best
    friend and I'm very happy that we tell each other so.  She is so
    precious, kind, considerate, and a truly wonderful person.  
    
    Everyone should have a best friend like mine!
    
    
    

    My best friend is my twin sister. She's the one I can say all those
    things to that I can't say to anyone else.  On a very different level
    my husband is my best friend too.  The uniqueness, though, of having a
    twin and having been so close for so long (we understand each other's
    thoughts in some way) differs greatly from people I've _grown_ close to
    over a period of time.  My other closest friends are my 2 sisters - it
    seems that my level of trust and willingness to share (i.e. all the
    history behind stories etc.) diminishes with "new" people as I get
    older. For some reason it's safer for me to share with people who know
    me well and accept me.  Perhaps because I'm basically a loner, and my
    sisters are as well.
    

	A few incoherent thoughts on the subject....
	
	I'm a male and my best friend is very important to me.

	Her name is Betty Bugely and she's 76 years old. She lives in
	the in-law portion of my home , hopefully for the rest of her life. 
	My kids call her nana and she's the most prominent grandmother figure 
	in their lives.

	We spend much time together...mostly just talking. We are as
	close as friends could be while still remaining platonic.

	Because of our age and sex differences we differ on world views
	very much. Somehow that has never affected our friendship.

	She knows all about me and I all about her...almost.

	I admire, respect and trust her like no other. Neither my wife or
	my own mother could come close. This must sound a little strange
	to some.

	I do have a problem starting and maintaining friendships with  other
	men. I don't know why, it wasn't always this way...somehow when I 
	became older......hmmm.

	The men in my grandfathers generation seemed to have many male friends.
	They went to war together...had seen each other through the rites of
	passage over the years.

	Modern men, I feel, are basically lonely creatures. Particularly those
	whose marriages offer little of the benefits that good friendships
	can provide.

	I often wonder what I will do when Betty passes on. Friends like that
	are very rare....maybe once in a lifetime for the lucky.

	-D-
	

    
    I have two best friends, so I think I'm lucky!  One I have known since
    my parents moved in next to hers when we were both two years old - we
    lived next door to each other for 19 years and have always shared all
    the good/bad times, secrets etc.  The funny thing is the we both have
    very separate lives with different friends/jobs, and hardly ever go out
    to socialise together.  But we get together two or three times a week
    for an hour or two to chat and catch up with what's been going on. 
    Even now I have moved in with my fiance, and she has moved too, we
    still keep this up.  I am getting married next week and she is going to
    be one of my bridesmaids.
    
    My other best friend I have known since we met at school.  We hit it
    off straight away, and were so close during those years that our
    mothers used to joke about having an adopted daughter!  She's even go
    the same name as me - Sam.  When we went to college for two years we
    lost touch and hardly ever spoke/wrote to each other, even though we
    lived in the same town.  Then one day after we'd left I ran in to her,
    and she said "Great!  I've got SO much to tell you!" and we went out
    and talked non-stop for four hours as if we'd never been apart.  Since
    then, even though she is at Polytechnic in Brighton and I am still in
    Reading, we write regularly and visit each other alot.  When she comes
    home for holidays we see each other about twice a week.  Sam is one of
    my bridesmaids, too.
    
    I feel so lucky to have these best friends!!!
    
    Sam

    Re: title, I hope not :-)
    
    Then again, my best friends are women. I've got several (though not
    much) and it's important to me to be able to share all the very
    personal things, and to stay in touch to know what's happening in their
    lifes. It takes a long time to develop the closeness of a
    best-friendship, and the best way I think I can describe it is the
    feeling of being family-by-choice. I wouldn't give up a friendship
    for a love relationship, because I know a love relationship might
    go to pieces, while a friendship will still be there.
    

    Ad

    RE: .14  -D-
    
    I sure hope your best friend is around for a long time.  I think they
    are the most precious thing on earth.  When she's gone, you'll miss her
    but you will have such wonderful memories!
    
    I think there's nothing better that a best friend, I'm glad you found
    one.
    
    
    "j"
       

    
    This may sound idealistic but my best friend is my husband - really.
    My best friends have always been men - since I can remember. 
    He is the only person whom I can share everything with.  I have
    a woman friend who is the best woman-friend I've ever had, but I don't
    always feel 'connected', like I do with my husband.  I hope that she & I
    can grow to be true soul mates but I'm not sure that'll happen.
    
    You are all very lucky to have so many best friends.
    
    Rachael
    

	For me, there's no separation between best friend and spouse --
	they're one and the same person.  It's not that way by design, but
	by nature.  We went to college together and knew each other for
	4.5 years before we got married.  We talk about books, movies,
	cats, people, politics, antiques, gardening, and food in addition
	to hopes, fears, frustrations, and enthusiasms.  Our "best friendship"
	is the cornerstone of the relationship.  I'm not sure either of
	us know where "best friends" leaves off and "husband/wife" begins,
	if they leave off and begin at all... 

	My other close friends are female.  I've known them for over five
	years and we worked together (and battled a conservative,
	male-dominated management together).  I'm proud of the fact that
	they once elected me an "honorary woman."  We stay in touch,
	even though we're at different companies now, and provide an
	ear to each other's highs and lows.

	Ron

    I've never had a best friend. As far as I can remember I've had about
    three very close friends and I find it very difficult to pick one of
    them out as closer than the others.
    
    I also find the notion of telling everything to you best friend a
    little strange. First of all I don't know myself enough to be able
    to tell all about me to someone. Besides, different facets of me
    come out when I'm with different people. So A may know something
    about me that B doesn't. It may not mean that A and I have a better
    relationship than B and I.
    
    manisha

    
    I'm wondering...
    
    I have several good friends. We go out to lunch or dinner, sit up and
    talk for hours, hang out, munch and enjoy each others company.
    
    I made a fascinating discovery recently. None of us seem to like DOING
    the same thing. That's not the basis of the friendship. And thus, I
    have to find other people for the things I love to do, or go alone.
    
    Has any other WOMAN found that her friendships with other women were
    based more on companionship than mutually-enjoyed activities?

    D!, you are definitely wrong that men don't have best friends.  As a
    matter of fact, it often seemed to me that the men I know (family or
    not) struck fewer, but deeper relationships than women.  A lot of you
    have had the same friends "forever," and I, too, have many friends from
    way back (one since infancy!).  But I have personally observed this in
    men more than in women.
    
    Let me explain (and tell you why it may be so).  My dad has had the
    same friends since he was three years old.  Several of them are dead
    now.  Frank, Leo, George, Hugo (pronounced Hugg-o), Ralph and my dad
    were best friends all their lives.  They knew *everything* about each
    other.  When Mom and Dad got married, she pretty much had to give up
    her friends and go with his.  This was pretty standard practice in the
    40s and 50s.  You "went" with the wife's family, and with the husband's
    friends, because family was more important to women, and friends were
    more important to men.  (That was (is?) the attitude; I am not
    condoning it in any way!)
    
    (In my mother's case, this was compounded by the fact that her mother
    believed that friends are what you have when you don't have family; if
    you have family, there is no need for friends and you shouldn't bother
    with someone who isn't "blood.")
    
    My older brothers have had the same circle of friends since grade
    school.  There have been newcomers, but none have taken the place of
    the old friends.
    
    By contrast, most women I know have only had strong, *enduring*
    relationships with other women since high school or college.
    Of my current closest friends, I must admit that I have known two since
    infancy, two since Jr. High, and two since High School, but we've only
    been friends with most of them since high school or later!  (The
    exception being one of the "infant" friends.)
    
    One of my professors has observed this, too, and she believes that it
    is one of the primary reasons the feminist movement has not been more
    successful.  Women were expected to drop everything and all friends
    when they started dating men seriously.  Female bonding has not been
    strongly encouraged in the 20th century (it was in the 19th, though!). 
    Male bonding *has* been encouraged.  Dr. Bennett feels that if female
    bonding becomes more the norm, the feminist movement can more easily
    succeed!  I don't know as I agree with her 100%, but I do believe she
    has some valid points.
    
    And to Mike Z, no, your conduct with your best friend is neither "male"
    nor peculiar to your relationship.  I don't have "secrets" to tell my
    closest friends, but when something makes me feel any kind of emotion,
    I end up sharing, just as you do.  That's a normal best-friendship, to
    me!
    
    
    Susan
    

    re .21
    Yes, I have found that my closest friends (primarily my sisters) don't
    share many of the same interests I do, such as golf. So I golf with
    other people.  I think you hit the nail on the head - the link for me
    is companionship. With my closest friends, it doesn't matter so much
    what we do, as that we are interested in the other person, and in
    sharing our lives.
    

    
    I too have a few best friends...
    
    My boyfriend is one, he and I share, and laugh, and
    cry, and compare...and everything all the time, he's
    someone who calms me down and makes me laugh at 
    myself.
    
    But I also have a few girlfriends and two I have been
    friends with since 3rd grade, I get choked up just 
    thinking about how great they are.  One is going
    to be a Mom in August and since I'm  years 
    away from anything like that things are a little bizarre
    because she's telling me she's going to Lamazze (sp) 
    class and I'm telling her I'm going to a huge booze cruise.
    The other is nothing like me and we couldn't be any 
    closer, actually last night we sat in her house until
    3am and compared notes and I was so happy that the 
    whole way to work (despite the bags) I was singing and
    smiling.  
    
    I am slowly realizing that many things can get in the 
    way of friends and that it hurts when people change and
    you want them to go back to the way things used to be.
    I hope that my best friends will always be there for me 
    and despite our distance we will remain close.
    
    I hope that all of you people men and women stay 
    in your friendships ( you brought a tear to my eye)!!
    
    -Stephanie