Conference turris::womannotes-v2

Thanks for entering that, Carol.   I wish I had more vacation time to
take advantage of what sounds like a very organized and interesting week
of activities.  Two weeks vacation per year for new folks seems almost
negligible, especially when compared to the summers, fall breaks,
Christmas vacations, spring breaks, etc., available during the academic
year.  Anyway...

Last weekend, 5 others (3 men, 2 women) and I camped and canoed down the
Saco River between New Hampshire and Maine.  It was a refreshing and
relaxing weekend, accompanied by several periods of sustained exertion
required to reach our destination on time while canoeing into a
headwind.

The river and camping areas alongside the river were not crowded, and I
couldn't help but notice that the only other women we saw were a few
with families.  We saw several groups (where group >= 6) of men.  These
men were very loud and obnoxious, and would yell some pretty crude
things to (for example) my friend Kathleen who opted to wear a bikini in
the sun while canoeing.

It was strange encountering so many men in one weekend who were ...
well, types that I wouldn't want to be around at all (that's putting it
nicely.)  Maybe I have this false sense of reality because most of the
men I work with and encounter randomly at DEC are pretty cool.

Is camping just one of those male domains that women have yet to explore
(men may read: invade)?  This was the hypothesis of one of the men on
the trip.

Kathleen said women probably don't camp as much because of all the sh*t
women have to take from the type of men that go camping (she was mad.)


             On the liter side of this topic ...

Is it true that a menstruating woman runs a higher risk of being
attacked by a bear or other wild animal than the average camper?

I started my period the night before we left and asked what was the most
ecologically sensitive thing to do with the ...you know... evidence
thereof.  One of the guys made the comment/joke that I'd better watch
out for those bears who can smell the scent of blood miles away.

He was just kidding, right?

                                             nancy b.

    re: base note
    
    There's an interesting heated debate going on about this event - 
    unless there's a very similar event in Maine this summer, and I'm
    thinking of the wrong event.  Assuming it *is* the same event, Diane
    Mariechild and Shuli Goodman are no longer going to be part of it.
    They are, or at least Diane is, very upset about the co-opting of the
    Native American Medicine Wheel.  They feel it's disrespectful for
    non-Native Americans to put on a Native American ritual, and that it
    misrepresents and misuses the culture.
    
    On the other hand, others argue, who is Diane Mariechild to cast
    the first stone about this issue?  She borrows often from Native
    American culture, rituals, and beliefs in her own work.
    
    [Besides, can anything with NPR reporter and author on spiritual topics
    Margot Adler be that disreputable?  :^) ]
    
    This debate has been going on in one of the Boston "New-Age" freebie
    journals; I forget which one, but could find out if anyone's
    interested.
    
    Re:.1
    
<Is camping just one of those male domains that women have yet to explore
<(men may read: invade)?  This was the hypothesis of one of the men on
<the trip.

    In general, I think this is true, but there are alot of very inspiring
    women who are not letting that stop them.  One organization that provides
    opportunities for women to experience the outdoors in all-women (and
    occasionally co-ed) environments is Women Outdoors.  (I've described
    Women Outdoors in here in an earlier note; see somewhere in topic 11.)

    At the Women Outdoors Gathering last weekend, a woman named Cindy Ross
    gave a wonderful, moving presentation (slide/narration) of her trip on
    the entire Appalachian Trail - at times with several other men and
    women, at times with another woman, and at times by herself.  She later
    went on to do the Pacific Crest trail.  There are many other examples
    of inspiring women-only trips.
    
    I also have several friends who've done the Appalachian Trail either
    solo or with other women.  And I go camping with women-only groups
    usually several times a year.  There are occasional jerks with rude
    remarks, but that's true in the city, too!
    
    

<Is it true that a menstruating woman runs a higher risk of being
<attacked by a bear or other wild animal than the average camper?
    
    Possibly, but much less so with tampons than with pads.  I doubt
    there's much truth to this either way, though.  It's never had any
    impact on my camping plans.  My closest brush with wildlife was when I
    woke up in Maine and a moose and her calf were grazing at my feet!  I
    doubt my period had much to do with it....;^)
    
    Susan

    re: -.1
    
    Sorry, I forgot to mention 2 points....
    
    	- The smell of food  - in pots, spilled on the ground, or in packs -
    should be much more of a concern in terms of what might attract
    animals.
    
    	- As for what to do with used tampons: Carry a plastic bag with
    you, and *carry them out*!  That is by far the best way to respect
    other campers and the environment.  Don't bury them; some animals will
    dig them up.
    
    [Sorry - I know this is a digression from the base note, but I felt
    these points were important to my last reply.]

      I've been camping with other women several times. I've even taken
      my horse out for a week with another friend. Camping is fine if
      it's what you have go through to enjoy something else - like
      riding in the wilderness - but when it comes right down to it,
      give me indoor plumbing any day!

      It's a lot easier for a guy to pee in the woods - they don't have to
      get half undressed. have you ever had to do this when cross
      country sking? sheeeesh, it can get damn cold!

      As for bears and your period, I've hiked through the Smokies with
      no problem. And there were deffinately bears cause I met some
      campers, male, who did meet them and lost their packs. liesl

    Well... since we seem to be still on the subject....  :^)
    
    
    <  It's a lot easier for a guy to pee in the woods - they don't have to
    <  get half undressed. have you ever had to do this when cross
    <  country sking? sheeeesh, it can get damn cold!

    
    I really laughed when I read this, and I'm still chuckling.  Did you
    ever hear of a product called Sani-Fem?  It was marketed a few years
    ago in Backpacking and similar magazines.  It was sort of a funnel
    molded to fit the female body with a tube coming out of the bottom.
    Supposedly it eliminated the problems of peeing in the woods for women. 
    HA!  I don't know anyone who ever used it seriously, but we got some
    good laughs out of it.  Someone gave me one once as a gag gift.  If it
    sounds awkward and impractical, it was!
    
    Susan

    As long as we're on the tangent, I read about a similar product (might
    even be this one; I don't remember the name) that was designed and
    marketed by the same woman who ran Vector (I hope the name is right)
    computers before the PC market underwent consolidation.  I won't make
    any social commentary on this change of products...
    
    You mean they don't work?  It seemed a bit different, but they were
    actually selling, the compnay growing,  and since this function tends
    to be, ah, required, then it seemed like a good company to invest in.

    re:-.1
    
    <You mean they don't work?  It seemed a bit different, but they were
    <actually selling, the compnay growing,  and since this function tends
    <to be, ah, required, then it seemed like a good company to invest in.

    Well, um, technically they work.  But let's just say I find "the
    old-fashioned way" preferable.  Besides, suppose you are out
    cross-sountry skiing and use it.  *Then* what do you do with it?!  :^(
    
    Susan
    

    One of  my  ex-housemates  swore  by  Sani-Fem.  She  did a lot of
    hiking, and said that they were a major improvement over any other
    technique.

--David

      Hmmm, could this be why women started wearing dresses to begin
      with? Even a lot of the underclothes I've seen from the pioneer
      era were split in the middle (pantaloons f'instance). liesl

    
    
    re: .2  Susan
    
    I have not heard about the debate regarding the Medicine Wheel.
    Many of the workshops/retreats that I have been attending over
    the past 2 years have incorporated some form of Native American
    ritual, whether it is a dance, a song, or whatever.  I do realize
    that there are some people in the Native American community that
    do not agree with the sharing of their rituals.  Others feel that
    it is appropriate to be sharing this wisdom with all people at
    this time.  
    
    If you find out any more, I would be interested in hearing it.
    
    Regards,
    Carole 

    re: the debate about using the Medicine Wheel at the Women's Camp:
    
    Carole -
    
    Unfortunately, I probably can't get back to you on this for a couple of
    weeks.  I'm about to leave for vacation, and won't be in the waiting
    room where I read about the debate until I return.  It was in one of the
    freebie New Age monthly newspapers that are distributed all over the
    Boston area.  Sorry, I can't remember the name of it.
    
    I pretty much said all I remember about the debate in my previous note.  
    The only one criticizing use of the Medicine Wheel was Diane Mariechild
    (and by implication, Shuli Goodman, since she also pulled out of the
    conference with Diane.)  In the next issue, a letter writer responded
    that Diane Mariechild had no grounds for criticizing it since she often
    borrows from Native American rituals and teaching in her own work.
    
    If I can get a copy of the magazine, I'll let you know if there was any
    more to it that I don't remember.
    
    Susan