Conference turris::womannotes-v2

Milestones is definetly the key.

I feel old this year for the first time - and I'm not even 30!

My milestones?

	* first marriage
	* first divorce
	* first house
	* first 30th birthday

I feel like a kid trapped in an adult's body.  HELP!!!!!!
Victoria

    I think most people get old sometime after they hit 70.  It *seems*
    to me, although I've never read any statistics, that most people
    who reach age 70, never make it to age 80.  Doesn't it seem like
    a lot of people "bite the dust" sometime in their 70's?  So, it
    follows, that if you do manage to reach age 70, then you kind of
    have to admit that you may have a limited number of active years
    left.
    
    It seems as though a lot of people who reach age 70 without having
    had some sort of major physical or mental illness have something
    happen to them sometime along in their 70's.  They either have a
    heart attack or stroke, or become senile.  Also, I've noticed that
    no matter how good people manage to keep themselves looking through
    their 50's and 60's, that after 70, most people just look old. 
    It really starts to set in - white hair, massive wrinkles, shrinking
    bodies, and then it reaches the point where you can't tell anymore
    who was cute once and who was always ugly.  I go to a nursing home
    often to visit my mother, and I think the fact that young, healthy,
    beautiful bodies and faces grow old is the saddest thing in the
    world (next to dying young of course).  It breaks my heart to look
    at the old people and imagine what they all must have looked like
    and what they all must have been doing 50 yrs. ago.
    
    Of course, there are mini-milestones all the way along that people
    have to deal with.  I'll never forget the first time I saw a group
    of young men turn to look at me and my daughter and then realized
    that they were all looking at *her*!  (I'm used to it now.  I can
    deal with not being thought attractive by 22 yr. old men, as long as
    I'm still physically and mentally healthy and happy and walking about 
    free in the world.)
    
    Lorna
    
    

    I have the two extremes:
    
    My 77 year old grandmother has Alzheimer's.  She is falling apart
    mentally and physically.  I saw her at Christmas, (the day after
    her birthday) and she could barely speak.
    
    My husband's grandfather is 95, has all his own hair and teeth,
    just got a pacemaker, and he gardens, cooks, drivves, etc.
    
    Who can tell?                                             
    
    K.C.

    Middle aged is 20-30 years older then I am. Old is 30+ years
    older then I. In short I will always be young and my father will
    always be middle aged. Old is a state of mind more then anything
    else.
    
    			Alfred

    Coming from a long-lived family (all four grandparents lived well
    into their 90s; one grandfather lived productively and with a "young"
    attitude to 100), I don't believe chronological age or milestones are 
    quite enough.
    
    When I think about "getting old," the picture I have in my mind is of 
    losing my ability to take care of myself -- having to depend on others 
    for locomotion, feeding, bathing, etc.
    
    Other than that, I have no dread of growing old.
    
    Karen

    Re .8, I agree, except I think it's still only the rare lucky ones
    who manage to "do" for themselves up into the 90's.  It seems like
    a lot of people become unable to take care of themselves sometime
    between 75 and 80, so I tend to think of 70 as the scariest birthday
    (sort of like the beginning of the end!)  (Of course, my father
    fell over dead of a heart attack shortly before his 76th birthday,
    and my mother became senile at age 74 after suffering a brain aneurysm
    so this affects my attitude.)
    
    Lorna
    

    Some place in the recent past I recall a magazine article about
    aging that divided 'older' people into three groups. The first
    group was the 'young' older people...which was, as I recal
    the 50s and 60s. If one left the 'young old years' in good 
    health, then the middle 'old years' the late 60s 70s and early
    80s were pretty much guaranteed to be relatively easy. Anyone
    with a chronic or acute illness in the 'early' years, would 
    obviously have a rough time of the later period. Finally
    every one comes to the end of their life span and for those
    who had a healthy early and middle 'old age' this comes in the
    late 80s and the 90s and possibly into the second century.
    
    My father's mother died this fall two months short of her
    102nd birth day. Up untill she was over 100 she lived alone
    and walked every day. Yes, towards the end her house wasn't 
    clean, because she couldn't keep up...but she was independant
    and alert, and she knew most of her g.g. chilrend and her 
    two g.g.g.grand kids.
    
    I hope that I am as independant as Grandma Pearl was...I loved
    her dearly, and admired her very much.
    
    Bonnie

    My father  defines  middle age as from 10 years younger than he is
    to about 20 years older. This way he's always middle aged, and I'm
    always young.

    I age in two ways: certain events age me (Realizing that the class
    I  was  teaching  not only didn't remember the great blackout, but
    some  of  them  were  the  surge in the birth rate 9 months later,
    since I used that as an example in class it really got to me.) and
    I  find that I don't heal as quickly as I used to, and it's harder
    to get in shape.

    Various events  surrounding children are also very important. When
    my  baby  sister  turned  21,  the  whole family felt older. I act
    differently  about  dating  because  I  want  children.  My sister
    decided that she was an adult when our nephew was born, so she was
    no longer the youngest.

--David

	Birthdays.  We all have them (whether we like it or not).

	Do certain birthdays bother you?  Why?  Do birthdays = aging?

	I never really gave it much thought, but the number 30 is
	getting pretty close...just a matter of weeks.  I think it's
	bothering my Mom and Dad more than me (I'm the oldest)!  But 
	people keep teasing saying things like "oh no, the big three-oh, 
	what are you going to do!" as if it were something terrible.  
	Or "you're almost thirty and you haven't done XYZ yet, time's
	running out".  Goodness, the 'curse of the 30th year' how do 
	people survive! ;-)  Another biggee from the family is "you'll 
	be thirty soon, you'd better hurry up and have kids or it'll be 
	too late!"  

	Am I missing something here?  Is there something wrong with me 
	because this next birthday is just another day?  Or will it 'hit' 
	me later?  Am I supposed to feel different?  I don't have the
	feeling that time is running out, maybe when I'm seventy....

	Conni                                                        

    re .12
    
    I remember my 29th year - and the dread of 30 that I kept feeling
    (where DID it come from?).  Then the birthday came, nothing was
    different, and I've been fine ever since - at least 6 years worth
    now.
    
    I keep watching my Dad, who is 65 and more active than I will ever
    be, and realize again that age is a mind-set, not a number of years.
    I'm convinced that in our heads, none of us is ever older than our
    early 20's.  So I can hope that I will never be "old", but always
    interested in what's new and coming forth.
    
    Alison
    

    My mother told me that when she turned 30, she felt old.  She had
    5 kids, and she wasn't a kid herself anymore, she felt.  But when
    she turned 40, she was expecting my brother and felt like a kid
    again!
    
    Who can figure?
    
    K.C.

    About the thirtieth birthday -- I have a cousin born in 1956,
    who was working at a bank in 1986.  It happened that a number
    of the people she worked with were about 20-22.  So she
    turned 30, they had a little party, etc.  She made some
    joking comment about "Well, I guess now I'm a member of the
    Establishment.  Can't be trusted anymore!"

    She said she got an awful lot of blank looks.  *That* made
    her feel old!

    -- Linda

    My mother was kind of upset when she turned 60.  She said she couldn't
    believe she was that old.  She said, "I look in the mirror and say
    to myself, who's that old woman?  But, inside I don't feel any
    different than I did at 18!"  (That was almost 16 yrs. ago, and
    I realize now that she really didn't look that bad at 60.)
    
    I will turn 40 later on this year.  I have 8 months left in my 30's.
     It is kind of scary.  The other day in a card shop we passed those
    black napkins that Hallmark puts out that say, "Over the hill" on
    them.  My daughter said, "That's what I'll have to get you this
    year!"  I said, "You damn well better not!"  I feel like I should
    be about 22.
    
    Lorna
    

    I spoke to my grandmother about this a few years ago when she was
    about 80.  She said she still felt 19 inside.  She's starting to
    slow down (a lot) now that she's 85, but that's from physical
    problems such as osteoporosis.  My grandfather, at 90, still gets 
    around -- he drives, cleans snow off the roof, performs home 
    maintainance, etc.  I hope I take after him!
    
    Karen.

    .10's first paragraph is one that I remember reading just recently
    in some article.  And I think the term "young-old" is more true
    today than at any time.
    
    However...I come from a farming community in the deep south, and
    many of the women that would be considered (did seem to me 
    when I was growing up) old now were still doing quite a bit of real
    physical labor on a daily basis.  In fact, one of the women of our
    community was a rabid deer hunter from her youth.  She taught 3
    generations of boys to hunt, amoung them my brother and his son.
     When her arthritis got to be a problem, she took a rocker (yes,
    I haven't seen it but its part of the hunting lore around her) and
    put it in her favorite blind for waiting in comfort!
    
    So "young-old" is perhaps what I can begin to call myself.  I will
    be 56 in 3 weeks.  And I do much more on a physically active basis
    now than when I was 46.  I hike, x-country, sail, exercise daily
    and in general try to hold the "center" together while at the same
    time I recognize the aging process every time I look into the mirror!
    
    My late mother-in-law, after she was hospitalized and could no longer
    care for herself, literally said that she was now too old to live
    any longer.  She had never really seemed old to herself as long
    as she retained her independence.   
    
    Perhaps *that* is the criteria for most of us.  When we can no longer
    be self-responsible and independent, we then revert to the child-stage
    once again.  When that happens, we are truly the "very young-old-old".
    I think the final insult for my mother-in-law was having to wear
    adult pampers in the nursing home.   
    
    Marilyn   

	Hope there's time for one more response!

We celebrated my 50th birthday in December, and I seem to be having a problem
dealing with being 50!  When I was 39, I looked forward to becoming 40 because
"life begins at 40!"  But somehow, 50 seems and sounds so *old.*  When I think
of it, I can hardly believe I am 50, and if I'm *not* thinking about it and
someone speaks of someone in their 50's, I *don't* yet identify with that age!
I am somewhat embarrassed about this kind of "silliness."  I expect myself to
take it more in stride!  (Well, maybe eventually.)

In general, the upper years of any decade feel older than the early years.
It seems that being in my "early 40's" was preferable to being in my "late
30's."  I'm not sure why, unless it was the hope/expectation that I didn't
"look" 40!  (Yes, I know, I keep reminding myself that Gloria Steinem said,
"This is what 50 looks like!"  But I don't look as good as she did!)

So far, being 50 doesn't feel like a plus.  My 82-year-old father, however,
says I can't begin to know what it's like to be OLD, and that doesn't really
make me feel any better!

	My biggest complaints are minor, but chronic, physical ones which I
	cannot realistically expect to get rid of!

	My next biggest complaint is that I *look* older and that that, too, is
	not likely to improve significantly!


These are the things that make me *feel* old:

Events:
-------
- The history I have lived through that many other adults don't remember.

- Having grown children, especially the 18th birthday of the oldest one.
  This was a much more significant event for me than for him!

Appearance:
-----------
- Looking in the mirror and seeing someone who looks like my mother, who died
  at 56. 

- Gaining 15 pounds since menopause.

Physical Health:
----------------
- Looking back and understanding the hormonal surge and adolescent behavior
  that preceded menopause. 

- Having less stamina to do things in the evening after work.

- Waking up with various (very minor) aches and pains almost every day and
  thinking that it will always be like this now.... there's no going back!

- Taking daily medication for high blood pressure and for high cholesterol.

- Taking hormones to replace those my body no longer produces.


Goal-Oriented:
--------------
- Realizing how many of the things we thought we'd do (especially to our house)
  no longer seem relevant or needed because the kids are grown!

  This one has been a plus, though, in motivating me not to wait till I'm older
  or retired to do those things that I can afford and have thought I would do
  "when I'm older!"  The big plus of turning 50 is realizing that I AM NOW
  "older," so I'd better "get with it!"


Well, as I indicated above, I'm disappointed in myself for not taking all this
more in stride, but I assume I will eventually.  If you learn any hints in
class to help, let me know!

Nancy

    Last night I was having a conversation with a friend.  She is 27
    and I am 39.  I was telling her that I consider it to be a shame
    that an acquaintance of mine, a 46 yr. old man, looks so old for
    his age.  She blurted out, "Forty-six is old!"  :-(  Isn't it depressing
    that people under 30 in our society consider 46 to be old?  I'll
    be 46 in 7 yrs., and I can't accept that 7 short years from now,
    I'll be old!  I mean, some women can even still get pregnant at
    46!  If 75 yrs. is the normal, average human life-span, then why
    does 46 have to be old?  Do people have to be old for the last 30
    yrs. of their life? ! *sigh*
    
    Lorna
    

	I have a different tack that I take, based on my experiences.
I have two criteria I find relevant to the sense of age - the one that
has been discussed is vitality, a sense of healthiness that is the 
product of our constitution and our conduct.  And the second is a 
sense of linkage or connection to life, to other living things.

	The first has been the topic of the most discussion - we
are born with a lot of growth, regeneration, and potential, and based on
genetics and our habits, we consume our vital systems in our daily
lives, or are accidently cut off.  I know my parents have both switched
to macrobiotic diets in their 50s and have improved their health markedly, 
with clearer skin, more energy, and the feeling they are less worn out 
than when they were in their 30s.  Clearly, smokers who quit taxing their
systems live statistically longer, so while cells seem to have self-limiting
regenerative powers, they can be stimulated to extend our sense of well-being.

	The second is one I've observed but rarely seen elsewhere --
it seems that we have some sort of invisible, ineffable links to other
living beings.  As long as these are maintained, we remain living, 
when they get cut off, it seems that we die.  This phenomenon shows
up with infants who fail to thrive with no stimulation, with loners
who commit suicide, with older folk who lose their spouses, friends, 
aquaintances, and pets little by little.  Some sustenance that derives
from contact and connection with living things seems to fade away along
with the will to live.  Others, who have bonds, who make new friends
or new job contacts along the way, or who find pleasure in woods, gardens, 
and meadows, seem to remain alive and growing for longer and have a 
different sense of youth and age.

	All of this is based merely on my own observation, without
reference to scientific evidence or any blind faith.   I know that 
when I turned 30, even though I was certain that there was absolutely 
no correlation with any significant cosmic moment, I suddenly became 
very introspective, and made quite a few lifestyle changes.  
Now I look at 40 a little more apprehensively.

    .21 - I ABSOLUTELY AGREE!!
    
    .19 - TAKE HEART - MY MOTHER IS 52 AND ACTS YOUNGER THAN MYSELF.
    SHE'S ALWAYS GOING OUT WITH 'THE GIRLS'. 
    SHE IS MORE SELF-AWARE NOW THAN IN HER "YOUNGER YEARS" BECAUSE SHE
    HAS MORE TIME FOR INSTROSPECTION (NO CHILDREN TO TAKE CARE OF)
    
    AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED, I LOOK FORWARD TO EACH YEAR. I LOOK BACK
    AND SEE THE CHANGES I'VE MADE IN MY LIFE UP TO THAT POINT (YES,
    THE MISTAKES TOO) AND AM AMAZED TO SEE THE WAYS I HAVE GROWN.
    EACH NEW YEAR IS A LEARNING EXPERIENCE - NOT ALWAYS THINGS I WANT
    TO LEARN, BUT ALWAYS I AM MORE HUMAN FOR IT.