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Conference turris::womannotes-v2

Title:ARCHIVE-- Topics of Interest to Women, Volume 2 --ARCHIVE
Notice:V2 is closed. TURRIS::WOMANNOTES-V5 is open.
Moderator:REGENT::BROOMHEAD
Created:Thu Jan 30 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 30 1995
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1105
Total number of notes:36379

265.0. "The missing "Cathy" comic strips" by --UnknownUser-- () Mon Oct 31 1988 14:43

T.RTitleUserPersonal
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265.1Thanks, Mike!NEXUS::CONLONMon Oct 31 1988 14:476
    	RE:  .0
    
    	Thanks for bringing that up!  I'd like to hear what the censored
    	comic strip says, too!
    
    							Suzanne...
265.3definitely politicsDOODAH::RANDALLBonnie Randall SchutzmanMon Oct 31 1988 14:5910
    I've seen a couple of them (the Nashua _Telegraph_ isn't censoring
    them yet) but I don't remember the dialogue off the top of my
    head.  I'll try to post it tomorrow if somebody doesn't beat
    me to it. 
    
    Last Saturday's was blatantly political and not in the least
    humorous, by the way.  Not to say it was right, but it did seem
    rather inappropriate to the comics page. 
    
    --bonnie
265.4Cathy 10/28/88 San Jose MercuryPSG::PURMALFormality is anger with its hair combedMon Oct 31 1988 15:2218
    Cathy and Andrea are walking in a park.
    
    In the first frame Andrea says "The Reagan-Bush administration has
    done nothing about the fact that 44% of the workface is women, yet
    we have no national law requiring equal pay."
    
    In the second frame she says "It's done nothing about the fact that
    67% of the women who have preschool children work full time and
    need day care help... Nothing about the fact that 90% of the families
    on welfare are single mothers with no way out."
    
    The third frame has her saying "Yet indredibly, many people look
    at the current government and think things are going pretty well."
    
    She closes with "The government is like a baby.  It looks like an
    angel when it's sleeping"
    
    ASP
265.5Cathy 10/27/88 San Jose MercuryPSG::PURMALFormality is anger with its hair combedMon Oct 31 1988 15:3420
    In all four frames Andrea is feeding Zenith (I hope I got her name
    right).  Andrea is thinking.  Each paragraph represents a separate
    frame.
    
    "I lost my job when I had a baby because republicans believe maternity
    leaves should be decided on by individual companies and my company
    decided not to give them."
    
    "I can't afford to get another job because republicans believe day
    care help should be the choice of individual companies, and the
    10,000 companies I've applied to have chosen not to offer it."
    
    "This would all make me sick except republicans believe health care
    should be a personal matter, and I am a person who's unemployed,
    uninsured and ineligible for aid."
    
    "It was easier to support the concept of giving power to the individual
    when I was an individual who had some."
    
    ASP
265.7CVG::THOMPSONGrump grump grumpMon Oct 31 1988 15:3511
    There have been a whole string of these anti-administration
    Cathy strips over the last week or so. They are not funny
    and are blatantly political in nature. They do have valid (for
    the most part) points regarding 'womans' issues. I tend to
    agree that they belong more on the editorial page then the
    funnies page. I go to the funnies page to get a laugh which
    I generally need after reading the editorial page. I never
    did understand censorship of comics just because they get a
    little political.

    				Alfred
265.8If satire is good...........NSSG::FEINSMITHMon Oct 31 1988 15:438
    I usually drop any thought of anything but enjoyment when I turn
    to the comic pages, regardless of political content. Doonesbury
    was as political as they come, as were some other strips, but who
    really cares. If the satire is good, its good, regardless of its
    political leaning. If you don't like the message, don't read the
    strip.
    
    Eric
265.9Cathy 10/25/88 San Jose MercuryPSG::PURMALFormality is anger with its hair combedMon Oct 31 1988 15:4624
    Cathy's mother is in the kitchen watching the TV.  She is talking
    to the television after each of the things the speaker says.
    
    TV: If elected, I will appoint a special task force to study new
        techniques for balancing the budget...
    
    Mom: Oh, for heavens sake.  Just quit spending money you don't have.
    
    
    TV: I will commission advisory reports on what to do about our icky
        oceans and rivers...
    
    Mom: If you MESS it up, you CLEAN it up!  What's so hard about that?
    
    
    TV: I will continue to invest in a strong defense to keep this country
        a safe place for the homeless people to live.
    
    Mom: SEND YOURSELF TO BED WITH NO DINNER YOUNG MAN !!!
    
    Mom, in the last frame says to Cathy "This country doesn't need
    a president.  It needs a mother."
    
    ASP
265.10Not sure of time-frame...SALEM::LUPACCHINOWe are not amused.Mon Oct 31 1988 15:495
    
    BTW, I understand a group of cartoonists have decided to focus on
    the problem of homelessness in America in their recent cartoon strips.
    
    am
265.12Cathy 10/26/88 San Jose MercuryPSG::PURMALFormality is anger with its hair combedMon Oct 31 1988 15:5926
    Andrea is sitting on the couch while Xenith plays on the floor.
    The television is on.
    
    TV: Senate Republicans killed a day care subsidy plan this month
        preferring to back Bush's plan to give families a $1,000 tax credit
        for each child under age 4.
    
    
    TV: The Bush plan comes to $2.74 per day per child.  While no one
        could find decent day care for $2.74 a day, his plan would allow
        each impoverished family to buy a decent VCR.
    
    
    TV: Not only would children have something to watch while Mommy
        rips her hair out, but each VCR purchase would further boost
        the Japanese economy so they could keep boosting our economy
        by buying up all our buildings and buisnesses.
    
    
    TV: Parents, of course, could tape all speeches telling us how well
        off we are.
    
    Andrea to Xenith: "Get your bottle honey, Mommy has to go to bed
                       for four years."
    
    ASP
265.13Last week for homelessTUNER::FLISmissed meMon Oct 31 1988 16:025
    That seemed to have occured last week, some time.  I hadn't heard
    of it comming up but noticed over half of the comics running such
    themes.  Most did a good job too.
    jim
    
265.14Miles to go before I sleep.SALEM::LUPACCHINOWe are not amused.Mon Oct 31 1988 16:064
    
    .11 Thanks, Steve. I'm about 2 lightyears backed up in my reading.
    
    am
265.15Homeless cartoons 10/25/88PSG::PURMALFormality is anger with its hair combedMon Oct 31 1988 16:107
    re: Homeless cartoons.
    
        My 10/25 comics page has The Lockhorns, Doonesbury, Marmaduke,
    Family Circus, Ziggy, Duffy, Cathy, Robotman, Garfield, and For
    Better of For Worse all dealing with the homeless.
    
    ASP
265.16ULTRA::ZURKOUI:Where the rubber meets the roadMon Oct 31 1988 16:206
Well, I thought the one about the government looking like an angel sleeping was
pretty funny.

When you look at the mud-slinging that went on in early politics (Washington
era), you can feel part of a long tradition. Well, I can...
	Mez
265.17no simple answersDOODAH::RANDALLBonnie Randall SchutzmanMon Oct 31 1988 16:326
    Re: .16
    
    Ironically funny, perhaps.  Would she like the government to
    wake up and start running her life the way the baby does? 
    
    --bonnie
265.18This is for w/e 15-OctMETOO::LEEDBERGset hiddenMon Oct 31 1988 16:5115
Maybe it is my sense of humor or something but I thought that they
were all funny or at least got me to smile.  I think every country,
business and household needs a good Mother to keep everyone in line,
feed and dress.

_peggy

		(-)
		 |
			I guess I will have to buy a newspaper
			to get copies of this weeks strip.  The
			Goddess must have been talking to "Cathy"
			and her friends.
    

265.19Now I am scared!DPDMAI::DAWSONLove is a many splintered thingMon Oct 31 1988 18:3510
    RE: .9
    
         MOMMA Bush?.......sounds like a fern giving birth!
    
         MOMMA Duke?.......sounds like a dog I heard of some where!
    
    
    *Lord who do I vote for NOW? :-)
    
    Dave
265.20is this a tangent? DOODAH::RANDALLBonnie Randall SchutzmanMon Oct 31 1988 18:4830
    re: .18

    I think the ones that started 26-October or 27-October are the
    ones that were deemed too political.  The earlier ones were at
    least in character with the speakers, and some of them were funny. 
    
    But at the risk of sounding like a spoiled teenager, I have to
    disagree wtih you and Ms. Guisewaithe about the country needing a
    good mother.  It needs compassion, yes, and mothering.  But
    Cathy's mother is one of the most rigid, meddlesome people
    portrayed in comic-dom. There's nothing kind or compassionate
    about her.  She just wants everybody in line behaving like good
    little boys and girls, socially cleaned up, nicely paired off and
    having children the way we were taught. 
    
    No, thank you. 
    
    I don't want to be kept in line.
    
    I don't want to be fed and dressed.
    
    I am old enough to take care of myself, and I don't need some
    mother-figure minding my business for me.  I may screw up, and
    probably will, but I don't intend to come running to mamma to
    patch me up when I do.  

    Now that I think about it, there is a lot of the "Mind me, I know
    what's good for you" about Dukakis and his attitudes.   
    
    --bonnie
265.21There's a pony in there somewhere...REGENT::BROOMHEADDon't panic -- yet.Mon Oct 31 1988 20:045
    Bonnie,
    
    How about -- Politicians need [Cathy's] mother.  ?
    
    						Ann B.
265.22AKOV11::BOYAJIANThat was Zen; this is DaoTue Nov 01 1988 04:418
    The "homeless day" was an organized attempt on the part of a
    number of cartoonists to call attention to the problem. A similar
    "call to arms" was done last year on Thanksgiving, on which a
    number of cartoonists all focused on starvation as an issue.
    Those cartoons were later collected into a book called, if
    memory serves, FOOD FOR THOUGHT.
    
    --- jerry
265.23Homeless dayWOODRO::FAHELAmalthea, the Silver UnicornTue Nov 01 1988 11:4517
    The Homeless Day one that got me was "For Better Or Worse".  I don't
    remember the exact dialogue, but I do remember the basic idea.
    
    The kids are talking about how one friend has a pool and another
    has some other gadget, and the boy says how he hates living in just
    a "stoopid" regular house, while two people outside are asking each
    other (not exact quotes) "Did you find anything to eat?"  "No, I'm
    trying to find a place to sleep".
    
    I used to be one of the kids, wanting some new gadget (I believe
    at the time it was Cable TV), and my mother telling me that I should
    be glad to have a roof over my head.
    
    I believe that Cathy was having one of the political strips that
    day.  I could be wrong.
    
    K.C.-who-is-sending-my-mom-the-"America-needs-a-mother"-Cathy-strip.
265.24Cathy 10/29/88 San Jose MercuryPSG::PURMALFormality is anger with its hair combedTue Nov 01 1988 14:3620
        Cathy is riding in her car listening to the radio.
    
    "By Nov. 8, $65 million will have been spent in the Presidential
     race.  Because of the government's fund-matching program approximately
     one-forth of that will have been from our own income tax dollars."
    
    
    "Candidates will have spent $16 million of our own hard-earned money
     trying to convince us they're the most qualified to manage the finances
     of the country..."
    
    
    "While the result is still speculation, there's a growing feeling
     that we'll be hearing one strong unified voice on election day..."
    
    
    At this point Cathy is lifting her arm and screaming "I WANT A
    REFUND!!!"
    
    ASP
265.25Cathy 10/31/88 San Jose MercuryPSG::PURMALFormality is anger with its hair combedTue Nov 01 1988 14:5619
    Cathy is with a group of people standing in front of a television.
    The group is filled with people some cheering and some angry. Above
    the frame "We've watched the candidates in action ... Seen their
    videos ... Heard their sound bites ... Read their claims ... Argued
    with our friends"
    
    Cathy leaves the group with a stake of printed material. Above the
    frame "And now in the richest tradition of America, we need each
    to sit alone, gather the information around us..."
    
    Cathy is sitting on her bed with reading one thing with the others
    spread about on the bed around her. Above the frame "...And ever
    so calmly and quietly begin to ask ourselves the question we ask
    at least every four years ...."
    
    Cathy looks up still sitting in bed and says "Is there still hope
    for life on Mars"
    
    ASP
265.26Cathy 11/1/88 San Jose MercuryPSG::PURMALFormality is anger with its hair combedTue Nov 01 1988 15:2123
    Cathy and Andrea are standing in front of a house, there are some
    other women and lots of little ones running around with flags."
    Cathy : "What's all this Andrea?"
    Andrea : "This year teh women's vote is more critical than ever,
              Cathy."
    
    Andrea : "Not only are we electing a president, but the next president
              will probably appoint at least three supreme court justices
              whose positions on women's issues could shape the future
              for our children for another 30 years."
    
    The kids are getting rather rambunctious and one of the other women
    is looking at them with concern.
    Andrea : "By having Zeniths play group join me in canvassing the
              neighborhood, we're turning a grass roots campaign into
              something much, much more!"
    
    One of the other women has picked up one of the little munchkins
    who is rather messy.  She says "A grass stain campaign"
    
    ASP
    
    These are "controversial"?
265.27:):):)SLOVAX::HASLAMCreativity UnlimitedTue Nov 01 1988 16:013
    I think they're great!  Thanks, I needed that!
    
    Barb
265.28AMUN::CRITZTue Nov 01 1988 16:484
    	Mr. Rogers is more controversial than some of these
    	comic strips. 8-)>
    
    	Scott
265.29APEHUB::STHILAIREFood, Shelter & RhinestonesTue Nov 01 1988 20:005
    I liked all the Cathy scripts that were put in here.  Thanks!  I enjoyed
    them.
    
    Lorna
    
265.30do taxes go towards campaign funds?HACKIN::MACKINJim Mackin, Realtime ApplicationsTue Nov 01 1988 20:426
    ... although, unless I'm mistaken, tax dollars are not used in the
    matching campaign funds.  Doesn't that come from the "check box to have
    one dollar of your tax refund put towards the campaign fund?"
    
      I'm not sure how you could get the magnitude of the matching funds
    from that alone, though.
265.31taxesTFH::MARSHALLhunting the snarkTue Nov 01 1988 21:0221
    re .30:
    
    EVERY DOLLAR the government spends is tax dollars out of YOUR pocket,
    one way or another.
    
    > Doesn't that come from the "check box to have
    > one dollar of your tax refund put towards the campaign fund?"
                                  
    Actually that box says, "check box to have one dollar put towards the 
    campaign fund, your tax refund or the amount you owe will not be
    affected". Ever thought about where they get that dollar from? Where
    does government get ANY of its money? It either gets it from taxes or 
    it gets it from printing it ... er borrowing it. Either way, it 
    eventually comes out of YOUR pocket.
                                                   
                  /
                 (  ___
                  ) ///
                 /
    
                                                           
265.33KELVIN::WHARTONWed Nov 02 1988 01:164
    I thought that those scripts were funny. I would imagine that if
    I were pro-Bush or pro-Republican I won't have be so tickled.
    
    _karen
265.34this is not a bogglerTFH::MARSHALLhunting the snarkWed Nov 02 1988 12:1725
    re .32:
    
    Wake up mike,
    
    >.31>    EVERY DOLLAR the government spends is tax dollars out of YOUR
    >.31>    pocket, one way or another.
    >
    >	Even though 75% of all campaign funds come from private
    >	donations?        
    >

    Does .31 say that all campaign funds come from taxes? No. It says
    every dollar the government spends comes from taxes. Does it say
    every dollar spent in a campaign comes from taxes? No. It says every
    dollar government spends comes from taxes.
    
    "Even though 75% of all campaign funds come from private donations"
    is a non-sequiter.
    
                                                   
                  /
                 (  ___
                  ) ///
                 /
    
265.36Cathy 11/2/88 San Jose MercuryPSG::PURMALFormality is anger with its hair combedWed Nov 02 1988 14:0333
    Andrea and Zenith are sitting in front of a couch.  Andrea is holding
    a piece of paper, and Zenith is holding a stack of papers.
    
    Andrea: "Look what mommy wrote Zenith... "25% of the childern in
             the United States today live with a single parent.  We
             need Dukakis because he supports a national day-care plan 
             and laws to raise day-care standards.""
    
    
    Andrea is still reading, Zenith is running out of the frame.
    
    Andrea: ""44% of the workforce are women, but women only earn 64%
              of what men do.  We need Dukakis because he supports laws
              for equal pay.""
    
    
    Andrea is still sitting in fron ot the couch reading, Zenith has
    disappeared from the frame.
    
    Andrea: ""80 % of the women will get pregnant during their working
              lives.  We need Dukakis because he supports job protected
              maternity leaves.""
    A loud SPLOOSH! appears below what Andrea said.
    
    
    Andrea is at the bathroom door, Zenith is standing beside a toilet
    overflowing with papers and water.
    
    Andrea: "... And 99% of all children under 3 will stuff political
             fliers down the toilet before mommy has a chance to hand
             them out."
    
    ASP
265.37Where's Andrea's husband ?PHAROS::RYANSome days you eat the bearWed Nov 02 1988 14:598
    I've always followed Cathy because she's some one I can relate to.
    She doesn't come in the Globe though, which is the paper we 
    subscribe to, so I'm a little lost because I haven't read it in
    a while. My question is, where is Andrea's husband ? Did they 
    get divorced ? The posted strips imply that Andrea is now a 
    single mother. Enquiring minds want to know.....  
    
    Dee 
265.39TFH::MARSHALLhunting the snarkWed Nov 02 1988 19:1015
    re .38:
    
    It is a non sequiter because you are equating campaign spending with
    government spending. This is not the case. I am saying that every
    dollar the government gives to a campaign fund comes from taxes.
    This is not the same as saying that every dollar of campaign funds
    comes from the government.
    
    Got it?
                                                   
                  /
                 (  ___
                  ) ///
                 /
    
265.40The govt would keep spending, whether it's got it or notSTAR::BECKPaul Beck | DECnet-VAXWed Nov 02 1988 21:4011
    To elaborate - campaigns are run by private organizations, not by the
    government, and these organizations do their own fund-raising. Some
    government monies are funneled to campaign committees as a way to
    reduce the need for high-rolling contributors, but once this money is
    in the hands of the campaign committees it is out of the government.

    However, I wouldn't agree that every dollar spent by the government
    comes from taxes. If that were the case we wouldn't have this problem
    with the deficit, would we? The government spends an awful lot of money
    that doesn't exist. Whether any of that deficit money goes to campaign
    funds becomes a matter of who's keeping the books...
265.42the deficit and youDOODAH::RANDALLBonnie Randall SchutzmanThu Nov 03 1988 11:4261
    re: .40
    
    The problem is that not every dollar the government spends
    comes from taxes.  If it did, we'd be okay.
    
    The government takes out loans for purchases just the same as we
    do when we buy housese -- real loans with interest payments and
    due dates, only for amounts that stagger the imagination. The
    difference is that generally the government doesn't pay back the
    loan in monthly installments.  Rather, it makes quarterly payments
    of the interest and then pays off the principal in one lump sum
    when it's due.
    
    Roughly a quarter [I forget the exact number; anybody else
    remember?] of the present budget is going to servicing the debt --
    making those interest payments, paying service charges for getting
    new loans, and all that kind of stuff.  The US hasn't retired a
    major loan in almost 20 years -- when they come due, we refinance
    them. 
    
    One of the major consequences of the way the government finances
    its deficit spending is that every time it borrows another $4
    billion, that's $4 billion that isn't available to finance new
    houses, expanded businesses, new equipment for steel mills. It's
    not even available to states and cities to build new roads and
    repair the airports.  And what money is left for regular loans is
    at higher interest rates than it would have been otherwise. 
    
    Higher interest rates mean that the contractors who are building
    new houses have to pay more for the loans that let them finance
    the building in the first place.  They pass the higher cost on to
    you, the homebuyer or renter.  [This is not the only factor in
    high housing costs, but it is a factor.] 
    
    Higher interest rates mean that the department store downtown that
    wants to computerize has to pay more for its loan and can't afford
    as many computers, so they don't buy as large a system from
    DIGITAL and they don't pay for a service contract.  Other stores
    might not even qualify for a loan.  DEC's revenue goes down and so
    do our raises.  Again, this isn't the only factor affecting
    purchasing decisions or our revenue, but it is a major part. 
    
    Higher interest rates also mean it costs more to renovate your
    store, build a new warehouse, build a new building for your
    software engineers, or whatever.  It means making do with what
    you've got for a little longer -- and that means fewer jobs for
    the construction workers who build houses and warehouses and
    renovate interiors.  It also means that when you do build that
    warehouse, it costs more, and those costs get passed on to your
    customers. More unemployment, higher prices, fewer places to
    live -- you can see where that's leading.

    So that's why balancing the budget is so important, and so
    difficult.  I don't think either major candidate is going to
    do a thing about it, either.  
    
    Maybe instead of electing a president, we should hire Lee Iacocca
    to restructure the economy the way he restructured Chrysler Corp .
    . . 
    
    --bonnie
265.43Minor nitBOLT::MINOWBush/Horton: for a kinder, gentler, AmericaThu Nov 03 1988 11:508
Part of the budget comes from fees, customs duties, royalty payments, rents,
and other fairly mundane income.  (The $45 you pay for a passport isn't
a tax, but is payed to the government.)

This is relevant to Massachusetts: one way in which the state government
is raising revenue without raising taxes is by increasing fees.

Martin.
265.44Probably my first and last note here...REGENT::SCHMIEDERThu Nov 03 1988 14:0149
I don't have to agree with something or someone to laugh.  I was laughing
hysterically all during the second Presidential debate, and I didn't agree
with much of anything that was being said.  I was laughing to keep myself 
from crying!

Although I don't agree with the view expressed in the cartoon where Cathy's
mom says that what this country needs is a good mother, I laughed.  It was
funny because it was in character for her, and because I was able to connect
with the whole sequence due to it being a very natural sequence.  I have
several relatives, most of them now dead, who I can easily picture in Cathy's
mom's place in this sequence.

The other strips, for the most part, didn't even make me smile.  Not because
of the political view expressed, but because there was no wit to them.  There
was no human element.  They were just dry statistics, and they weren't even
entirely correct at that (as much as I despise Bush and Reagan, I have a
difficult time with people who automatically equate Republicans with "Evil"
and Democrats with "Good").  What has Dukakis done for day-care in his own
state?  We are working for a company that hasn't budged even an inch on
day-care in the seven years I've been here, and we are the largest private
employer in the state.  This is a bi-partisan issue, and it's one that BOTH
parties are screwing up.  WHY are they screwing it up?  It isn't because of
traditional liberal or conservative issues, but is because both parties are
still extremely male-dominated.

I can see why the papers were upset.  They expected entertainment, and
received editorials.  No wonder they felt the strips inappropriate for the
comics page.  That was still no reason to censor them, though.  There is no
reason why politics should be singled out.  There are other subjects that get
editorialised in the comic strips from time to time as well.  Do these strips
ever get censored?  I think it's fairly obvious that the Cathy strips in
question WERE effective, and so papers with more of a Republican leaning
pulled them.

WHY were they effective?  They were effective because, in spite of their
political bias, they brought up issues and statistics that have been all but
ignored by the mainstream press during their "boxing match" style coverage of
the Presidential election.  The press has successfully fallen victim to Bush's
ploy to keep the issues out of the race, so the issues brought up in the Cathy
strips might have inadvertantly educated some people and influenced them to
vote the "wrong way".

Here I was proud of how I had successfully kept my personal notebook down to
one notes file for almost a year now, and Jerry Boyajian had to provide a
pointer to this file in the Comics notesfile!  Maybe I can muster the strength
to delete it from my notebook after I exit this note...


				Mark
265.45Cathy 11/3/88 San Jose MercuryPSG::PURMALI'm tired of the soup d'jourThu Nov 03 1988 14:4131
    Andrea is standing at Irving's (Cathy's boyfriend) door holding
    Zenith, a piece of paper, and an American flag and talking forcefully.
    Irving is holding the door open listening.
    
    Andrea: "Since 1981 aid to education has been cut by 16%... funds
             for water pollution control have been cut by 43%... child-
             care funding has been cut by 28%... the minimum wage has
             dropped in real value by 31%."
    
    
    Irving holds the piece of paper and looks at it.
    
    Irving: "Andrea, there's nothing more annoying as someone who's
             stopped by the Democratic headquarters and picked up a
             bunch of their statistics."
    
    
    The door is closed and Irving is walking away from it, Andrea is
    presumably on the other side of the door.
    
    Irving: "If you want to talk politics, come back when you have fair,
             non-partisan, non-subjective facts."
    The doorbell rings.
    
    
    Andrea is back in front of the open door, Irving holding it open.
    
    Andrea: "Four out of the last 10 vice-presidents have become
             president."
    
    ASP
265.46TFH::MARSHALLhunting the snarkThu Nov 03 1988 15:2230
    re .41:
    
    .30 was talking about *matching* campaign funds. That is, the money
    that the government gives to campaigns. s/he stated that s/he thought
    that they did not come from taxes but came from citizens donating a
    dollar of their tax *refund* to the fund. 
    
    From this the chain of reasoning leading to my response in .31 is
    that *matching* funds are government spending, government's only
    source of income is taxes, thus those matching campaign dollars
    are from taxes.
    
    I will concede that the government also has some sources of income
    other than taxes in the form of direct fees (re .43). But do they
    represent any really significant part of the budget?
    
    re .42:
    
    When I say taxes, I also include future tax revenues, which is
    essentially what deficit spending is. Same with Savings Bonds, the
    only bond (promise) behind a Savings Bond is that in the future
    the government will have sufficient tax revenue to pay the bond.
    A Savings Bond is a promise to tax.
    
                                                   
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265.48What was misrepresented?PSG::PURMALI'm tired of the soup d'jourThu Nov 03 1988 16:328
    re: .47
    
        I fail to see what data is being misrepresented.  I'll agree
    that the statistic doesn't show the whole picture, but 3 of the
    last 4 vice presidents who became presidents did so as a result
    of their president leaving office through death or resignation.
    
    ASP
265.51TFH::MARSHALLhunting the snarkThu Nov 03 1988 17:2420
    re .49:
    
    > ...it appears that Most News Media are more PRO-Status-Quo and _loyal_
    > to the existing tyranny of men in positions of power than they are
    > in the Constitution.
    
    Now Eagle, I too am very upet and disappointed when I see a comic
    pulled from a newspaper because the editors think it inappropriate.
    However, I defend their right to do so. The first amendment protects
    speech from regulation by the *government*, it does not require
    publishers to print what they do not want to. There is no
    Constitutional involvement here at all.
    
    
                                                   
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265.53I thought it was a great stripGIGI::WARRENThu Nov 03 1988 17:5716
    Nothing was misrepresented.
                             
    The qualification "of the last 10 vice-presidents" explains that
    she is only talking about a subset (and exactly what subset) and 
    she does not claim that this is in any way representative of all 
    history.                 
                             
    Your example "Of the _last four_ flips, heads have come up 75 percent
    of the time" is also just a fact.  To say "When tossing a coin,
    heads comes up 75 percent of the time" would be misrepresentation,
    as would "Four out of 10 vice-presidents become president."  But
    that's not what was said.              
                             
    -Tracy
    
    -Tracy
265.54implicationsTFH::MARSHALLhunting the snarkThu Nov 03 1988 19:0512
    re .53:
    
    The fact is that the Dukakis campaign has been using that statistical
    anomaly to imply that it is likely that Quayle will become president.
    It is a reasonable deduction that Cathy's author is trying to make
    the same implication.
                                                   
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265.55MANTIS::PAREWhat a long, strange trip its beenThu Nov 03 1988 19:146
    Not that Quayle WILL become president, that he COULD become president.
    That afterall, is the primary purpose of a vice president.  Why
    Bush choose Quayle is what bothers me.  It certainly reflects on
    his judgement.
    
    Mary
265.57Back to the point..TUT::SMITHIs Fifty Fun?Thu Nov 03 1988 19:356
    The percentages of cuts quoted in the first part of the comicstrip
    were probably accurate figures, too -- but Irving needed a way to
    ignore them.  He seemed to think they were biased, but the VP figures
    are historical fact -- no chance that someone twisted "statistics!"
    
    Nancy
265.58The total U.S. vice president => president figuresPSG::PURMALI'm tired of the soup d'jourThu Nov 03 1988 20:044
        All right, of the past 43 vice presidents 12 of them have later
    gone on to be president.
    
    ASP
265.59REGENT::SCHMIEDERThu Nov 03 1988 20:3010
RE: .49

I regret that you took the opposite interpretation of what I was trying to
say.  In my attempt to be concise, I apparantly left too much unstated so that
it was easy for my description of the Establishment to be interpreted as my
own views.  Your rebuttal to my own message is pretty much what I thought I
was saying in my own message.  I apologise for offending you.


				Mark
265.61EVER11::KRUPINSKIWarning: Contents under pressureFri Nov 04 1988 02:069
	1) Does this mean that if Dukakis is elected, there is a 40%
	   chance we'll get Bentsen instead? A silver lining to every
	   dark cloud.

	2) As a staunch defender of the 1st Amendment I'd be outraged
	   if someone tried to force a newspaper to publish this or 
	   that cartoon.

						Tom_K
265.62Cathy 11/4/88 San Jose MercuryPSG::PURMALI'm tired of the soup du jourFri Nov 04 1988 14:1324
    Cathy, her mother, and Andrea are sitting at a table with salads
    in front of them.  Zenith is on Andrea's lap.
    
    Andrea: "When the Republicans talk about the thriving economy they've
             built, they don't mention that their economy requires most
             mothers to work outside the home to try to help pay the
             bills."
    
    
    Andrea: "When they talk about family values they don't mention that
             they've consistently voted against any legislation that
             would help struggling working mothers out of the hole."
    
    
    Andrea: "When women have no choice but to work more and spend less
             time with their children what do Republicans think all
             those children are going to do?"
    
    Mom:    "Children will do what they've always done, Andrea."
    
    
    Mom:    "Grow up and blame their mothers"
    
    ASP
265.64on the radioDOODAH::RANDALLBonnie Randall SchutzmanFri Nov 04 1988 16:417
    ~--e--~  Eagles_Suppose_It_Was_UNethical_Of_CATHY_2_B_"Political"

    Eagle, yesterday morning I heard a publisher on the radio quoted
    as saying this in so many words.  Well, he didn't refer to himself
    as an eagle, but otherwise he said exactly the same thing. 
    
    --bonnie
265.66Cathy 11/5/88 San Jose MercuryPSG::PURMALI'm tired of the soup du jourMon Nov 07 1988 15:1223
    Cathy is sitting in front of her television.
    
    TV: "In a startling election poll reversal, 93% of all American
         voters now report being miffed tha on one ever calls them when
         they're conducting polls"
    
    
    TV: "This is up from last week's poll, which showed that 52% would
         rather listen to polls than watch the new fall TV season."
    
    
    TV: "While 37% think the polls ARE the new fall TV season, the 76%
         who formerly said they ignore polls are now divided among 8%
         who like polls, 27% who make up their own polls, and 41% who
         say they'll vote against polls just to put them out of buisness."
    
    
    TV voice1: "And now lets hear what the candidates have to say in
                these critical last days before the election ..."
    
    TV voice2: "Oops.  Sorry, we're out of time John ..."
    
    ASP
265.67Cathy 11/6/88 San Jose MercuryPSG::PURMALI'm tired of the soup du jourMon Nov 07 1988 15:1842
    The TV is on in a rather messy room.
    
    TV: "One of the key differences between Republicans and Democrats
    is how they'll handle child care... Yet surprisingly few women have
    been heard from on this important point.
    
    
    Andrea rushes into the room carrying Zenith and a broom.  She shouts
    at the TV.
    
    Andrea: "Women who work full time and do all the shopping, cooking
             and cleaning for a husband and children do not have time
             to write editorials for their TV stations."
    
    
    TV: "Does this mean the Republican program is adequate?"
    
    Andrea: "What program??  67% of mothers witg children under age
             three work full time.  We don't have time to send telegrams
             begging for help to the White House."
    
    
    TV: "Maybe the Democrat's plan for government -sponsored day care
         isn't necessary... Maybe we don't need the Democrat's program
         for guaranteed maternity leave.
    
    
    Andrea: "Women who can't afford to feed their children, or who could
             be fired for taking more than two weeks off to gove birth,
             can't fly to Washington for support rallies."
    
    
    TV: "Well, I guess we'll find out on election day.  Are working
         moms content with the status quo..."
    
    
    TV: "or has a whole new force started to sweep the nation?"
    
    At this point Andrea is sweeping the floor with a big grin on her
    face.
    
    ASP