Conference turris::womannotes-v1

    fwiw, aside from whether the day should exist, etc, etc:
    
    when i was a secretary, it was pretty painful when my boss forgot
    secretary's day. it was even worse when _everyone_ else's boss
    remembered and i was left out.
    
    liz
    

    There's an interesting discussion about this going on in
    colors::Dec_secretary if anyone is interested.  The secretaries
    are talking about how they feel about it!
    
    Most of them seem to agree that they would like to see the appreciation
    in the paycheck and throughout the year, while a number of others
    say that they enjoy the recognition on Secretary's Day as well.
    
    I personally would rather treat our secretary well all year!  

    Well, most "days" are basically marketing ploys.  Great for Hallmark
    and other companies that make cards and little gifts.  (Who makes
    a lot of the world's calendars?  Hallmark.  How do you know when
    it's Secretaries' Day?)  And of course the florists eat it up. 
    
    Why secretaries?  Because they cut across all industries and markets.
    A "Software Engineer's Day" just wouldn't generate the same kind
    of response.
    
    Other than the obvious reasons - getting goodies - I suspect that
    a lot of secretaries like the idea because they're so often on the
    receiving end of the "just a secretary" attitude.  In a way, it's
    an opportunity to educate the public.
    
    Perhaps another reason why it endures is it feels so much like Mother's
    Day.  Isn't a good secretary kind of like 'dear old Mom,' running
    around taking care of things for you and getting you out of trouble?
    Secretaries are sentimental favorites.

    Bear in mind that most secretaries of the past (and even many
    today...even inside of DEC) are still hourly workers, not getting
    the same pay rate or benefits that us SW Specs and whatnot receive.
    
    It would be nice to see them "equalized", as .3 suggests, but it
    would also be nice to treat everyday as if it were Christmas...but
    then the Holiday would lose some meaning.

    Is there anyone who contributes to this conference that has a secretary
    that supports their activities alone?
    
    I find the comment 'my secretary' very offensive in the Digital
    environment because very few secretaries support one person.  It
    hints of slavery.
    
    

        "My" as in "my country", "my church" or "my doctor". I don't own
        any of them either, but I only have one of each, just like there
        is only one secretary who supports "my group". I also sometimes
        speak about "our" secretary/country/church/doctor and group, as
        well as "mine".
        
        JimB.

    I prefer "our" secretary to "my" secretary.
    
    Having spent some time in that role, I noticed that, in general,
    people who spoke about "our" secretary tended to treat me as a shared
    resource and (again, in general) people who spoke about "my" secretary
    tended to forget I was a shared resource.
    
    I might say "my travel agent", but she is not someone I "share" with
    anyone I know, and it doesn't feel inappropriately possessive.

    
    Saying "our secretary" in a conversation doesn't always make sense.
    For instance, if someone in my group is talking to someone from
    another group and refers to me, they would most likely say 
    "my secretary".  If they said "our secretary", it would sound as
    if I was secretary to both people having the conversation.  One could
    always say "my group's secretary" - which is fine with me, but I
    really don't mind if someone says "my secretary".  After all, I say 
    "my manager" and in the first sentence of this note I said "my group".  
                 
    
    
    
    

		In response to a previous noter here.....

		YES, there is another way to appreciate
		a worker.....it's called BOSS' DAY.....

			OCTOBER 16TH this year.........

		Hallmark has all the cards to cover this
		for those partaking......


		The FIRST person in DLB5 to get flowers
		this week was a Software Engineer.  These
		were in appreciation for some work done.


		Liz.....you probably 'forgot' to promote
		the day with your old boss years ago......
		In my department upstairs from you, we
		put out a quarterly calendar for advance
		planning of vac/course/days off....I made
		sure that one of THE DAYS on it was for
		Secretary's Day....using the symbol of
		a hand holding a bunch of flowers tied
		with a bow!!!!  Also, spelled out that
		April 25th was Secretary's Day......the
		secs here are still waiting, still waiting...............


		HEY NIGEL, are you reading -wn- today......
		
		hinthinthinthinthinthinthinthinthinthinthint

		BTW....HE's one of the members of 'my gang'!
	        	

justme....jacqui  (office support person)

    When is the offical secretary's day?  One person told me it is tomorrow
    that it is "celebrated" but the whole week belong to them.  
    
    Have you given anything to your secretary yet?  What do you get
    if you have a male secretary??
    
    Linda

    My attitude towards Secretary's Day has changed radically over the
    past few years, perhaps due to my increasing awareness of women's
    issues, etc.  It didn't used to bother me, but now it strikes me
    as being condescending.  For most of the year we get little
    appreciation and our miserly little paychecks, then on one day a
    year - yippee - free lunch and maybe a bunch of flowers!!  Oh, wow,
    it sure makes it all worthwhile!  (Give me a break!)  If somebody
    really appreciated me how about treating me like a normal human
    being with an average I.Q., instead of a 2nd class citizen, or taking
    for granted that I'm a dummy because I happen to work as a secretary
    instead of a (so awe inspiring) software engineer???
    
    Sorry, but with years of low pay, low raises, and being expected
    to make coffee and be mommy to a rag-tag assortment of engineers,
    free lunch and maybe a bunch of flowers just doesn't cut it.
    
    I've been doing office work for 18 yrs., 12 at DEC, and I've gotten
    cynical, but you did ask.
    
    Whenever I hear an engineer or a technician refer to me as "my
    secretary" I laugh to myself.  It's the cost center manager who
    gives me my review who makes me jump, not any of the techs or
    engineers, and that's just the way it is.  But, of course I don't
    complain aloud.  I just smile sweetly as I know I'm supposed to
    do.
    
    Lorna
    

    I have absolutely nothing against secretary's day or any other day
    for that matter but if you stop and think about it, card shops and
    flower shops are the only ones that make out like a bandit.  Hallmark,
    for example has cards for every occasion that you can possible think
    of and if you don't buy a card for every occasion, then there are
    guilt feelings that creep in.  Why do you think that everyone runs
    around like insane people at Christmas time?  It's because they
    have to get gifts for everyone in their family plus close friends,
    etc.  And God forbid that someone gives you a gift and you don't
    have one for them.  You feel like the slime of the earth.  I would
    much prefer to get a gift for someone special when it is not any
    particular special "commercialized" day.  That usually blows their
    socks off and it makes me feel wonderful.
    
    Sue
    

    Re: .14
    
    >It's the cost center manager who gives me my review who makes me
    >jump
    
    Yup.  I was told that the secretary was my manager's secretary,
    and that's how I refer to her.  She handles some things for the
    group, but that's only part of her job.

    Again, check out COLORS::DEC-SECRETARY note.  There are some wonderful
    and very varied opinions on the subject.
    
    THE day is today, Wednesday, 4/27; the WEEK this year is 4/25 -
    30/88.
    
    I frankly feel, by whatever name I'm called, if I'm not happy in
    my job, no day or week would make any difference.
    
    Use of "my" or "our" in front of Secretary, to me depends almost
    entirely upon the attitude of the person using the possessive word.
    If the person is trying to impress the caller/visitor, it means
    one thing, if it's simply an unexamined attitude, it means something
    else.  Frankly, I prefer to be referred to by name.  The caller/visitor
    will quickly catch on to the fact of my job function, whether it's
    called Coordinator or Secretary.  (I'm a Secretary, supporting one
    manager.)
    
    Any day where some people in a given category, like Secretaries,
    receive recognition, and others don't (who hasn't worked in an office
    where one Secretary gets flowers, and others don't) in my book isn't
    worthy of celebrating.  Mother's Day surely doesn't fit this category.
    
    "Office Worker's Day" is the best idea I've heard yet as a way to
    recognize/celebrate a category of people.
    
    As others have said, appreciation is a day-in/day-out attitude.
    Singling out a day or a week, allows us to feel good/asuage
    guilt, without the having to examine/change motives or attitudes.

    I've never heard of secretary's day before, and I'm afraid it does
    sound like a card manufacturers conspiracy to me. Does anyone know
    the origin of mother's day ? Apparently it dates from medieval times
    when all the apprentices who normally had little time of from work
    used to be given the day off to travel home to visit their mums.

    Re: .18
    
    In the U.S., it was started in 1914 by a woman who wanted to honor
    her mother.  (I forget the complete story, but it was fairly sad.)
    She campaigned for a national Mother's Day, and Woodrow Wilson
    complied.

    re: .18
    
    Total myth.  There was no such holiday in medieval times.
    
    The first telling of the tale you cite dates from the late 1700's.
    
    --bonnie, former student of medieval/renaissance literature

    	This group is a little off the wall anyway...   --Doug
    
    	This is from the CC manager:
    
    		:
                :

However, rain or shine we will go out tomorrow at 11:00 and do
something special. All volunteers (some have already indicated) 
are welcome to help wash Marianne's and Heather's cars. 

               "Now, isn't that special"

We will have buckets, hoses and other implements of destruction. 
Of course if you have your very own favorite car washing tool, 
feel free to bring it along. A "boom box" would certainly add
to the effect...

Once the cars are clean or a reasonable facimile thereof, we will
head to Kittie's for lunch.

See you all then, Steve

    Re .19 -- What does National Secretary's Week have to do with
              Mother's Day?

>    Re .19 -- What does National Secretary's Week have to do with
>              Mother's Day?

Both are "holidays" created to buy off a group of under-appreciated, 
un/under-paid women with a bunch of flowers in the hopes that they won't 
quit doing their jobs and thereby bring on the fall of human civilization.
These days are both exploited to the hilt by the greeting card and florist 
industries (everyone knows you can get a woman to do anything with the 
appropriate bouquet and thoughtfully expressed sentiment).  In spite
of these cynical observations, you ignore either day at your peril. 
As little as it is, NOT to acknowledge your mother or the secretary upon 
whom you depend marks you as an insensitive cad at the very least...

    I believe that Mother's Day (and Father's Day and Grandparents' Day
    and Secretary's Day and Children's Day and Boss's Day and Friendship
    Day...) _was_ actually created by Hallmark Cards.
    
    T.
     
                                  

        According to my World Almanac Mother's Day was first clelbrated
    in Philadelphia in 1908.
    
    ASP

    
    re .20 But I learnt that at school when I was young and impressionable
    and the teacher was always right !!!!  You've just destroyed one
    of my happy little delusions !!!

    RE: Mother's Day
    
    I believe Mother's Day is the only "real" holiday (or maybe
    "pseudo-real")in the bunch. I *think* the original idea was a sort
    of "Mothers-against-War" type deal - started by a woman who had
    lost a son or 2 in one. The original meaning has been perverted,
    needless to say.
    
    RE: .26 The teacher is always right
    
    As an ex-teacher, I would like to say that the teacher *IS* most
    definitely, ALWAYS right. And don't forget it.
    
    
    
    :-)
    
    --DE
    

       Re Mother's Day. it may be "almost" a holiday in America, but I
       assure you that it is definitely, and literally a holiday (= holy
       day) in Britain, and I believe the rest of Europe. The Canonical
       holiday known as "Lady Day" has been associated with the honoring
       of mothers for many centuries. Indeed it may in fact date back to
       the Old Religion and so predate Christianity (it appears that the
       early Christians "adopted" a celebration dedicated to Brigid, and
       converted it to a more Christian theme, as indeed they did with
       several other festivals from the Old Religion).

       It is only a pity that the people responsible for starting the
       American incarnation of this idea should have chosen to ignore
       the fact that a suitable date already existed.  (as then I could
       have easily bought Mother's Day cards at the appropriate time to
       send one home... and I'd only have to buy one a year too :-)

       /. Ian .\

    Okay, Ian: when is "Lady Day"?
    
    And, you could always do like I do--buy blank cards and add your
    own favorite words, or buy the cards in advance (I bought my mother
    her mother's day gift two months ago).  You see, otherwise I'm a terrible
    procrastinator.    I got this trick of buy cards ahead from my
    grandmother.  Of course, you still have to buy 2!  :-)

    Bah - humbug!
    
    :-).......I think secretaries day isn't that great.  Either you
    got tons of gifts or you get nothing depending on the manager. 
    If you get tons of stuff  you feel weird accepting it for doing
    your job and if you don't get anything you stick out like a sore
    thumb.....and everyone feels sorry for you.  This year I didn't
    get anything.....and it's okay.  The thing I look forward to is
    my review where I should be rewarded!!!!!!  
    
    But I believe the secretary role is changing and people should be
    aware of that.  What a secretary does here at DEC is completely different
    from a lawyers or doctors office.  We do alot of technical work
    and a variety of things and some of us travel......I really think
    we should be Administrative Assistants Wage Class 3 or 4!!!!!  We
    have lots of hard working secretaries who are very intelligent and
    can do their bosses job and I think it's time to reward them the
    correct way.
    
    My two cents....
    
    Yeah and they have nurses day, teacher day etc....etc...this is
    getting out of hand ya know!!!!  :-)