Conference vmszoo::rc

Throwing the plane yourself is difficult when you're first trimming
the plane. By the time your hand gets to the stick, the plane may 
already be too far into the "manuever" to properly correct. Your best 
bet is to use a friend to do the launching and be ready to correct 
ASAP. Another way to practice is to go to an area with tall grass and 
handlaunch the plane without the engine running into the tall grass 
(to cushion the landing/crash) This will help to develop launching 
skills and will tell you if there are significant trim problems. When 
you launch you want to throw it hard enough that the plane will glide 
out away from you. If you don't throw hard enough it is very easy to 
stall and snap roll into the ground (same thing with landing too slow). 
Once the plane is trimmed properly, you should have no problem launching 
the plane yourself with your right hand because proper trim will allow 
the plane to fly "hands off".

    
    Hi Jacques,
    
        I had a Electrostreak a couple of years back, so maybe you can
    benefit from my experience. However, I am left handed, so it was
    somewhat easier for me to do the launch, as I already had my right
    hand on the elevator/aileron stick.
    
        1. Your launch should be level. DON'T try to gain altitude with the
           throw, it will just stall before the prop can accelerate the
           plane. Allow the plane to accelerate for a few seconds before
           attempting to gain altitude.
    
        2. An Electrosteak has a couple of things working against you in
           the launch:
    
               a. A relitively high wing loading
    
               b. A direct drive prop
    
             Both of these tend to operate better at higher airspeeds, so
           the Electrostreak isn't really set up well to fly at slow speeds
           (like during launch )   
    
    
       3. The Electrostreak needs a solid toss to get it accelerating. 
          Usually 2-3 steps with a solid ( level ) toss will do the trick.
          Typically, it will lose a foot or two of altitude right after
          launch, but will gain it back as it accelerates.
    
       4. MAKE SURE YOU ARE LAUNCHING DIRECTLY INTO THE WIND. A downwind
          launch is asking for trouble. In addition, if there is any
          kind of solid wind, do not attempt any low level downwind turns
          right after launch as the pane will stall, and head straight
          down.
    
                Hope these tips help ( and don't discourage you too much :)
    
                                                                  Dan
        

    Launching low drag electrics with small diameter propellers can be
    tricky.  The problem is these planes have a relatively high stall
    speed and the smaller prop does not provide high initial thrust.
    This combination results in stalling behavior if the launch is
    done improperly.
    
    I have seen ducted fan flying wings and pylon racers with 38"
    winspans, wingloadings of 25 oz/sq. ft. and 6x6 props all
    succesfully hand launched.
    
    The trick is to throw the plane hard enough at the proper angle,
    so it is quickly flying.  I have similar problems when I launch
    my Robbe Calibra.  I throw it hard with my right hand, while
    holding the transmitter in my left.  I then must quickly use
    my right hand to put in aileron or elevator correction as needed.
    
    The pylon guys really throw the planes hard and even then they
    drop usually several feet of altitude until the airspeed comes
    up and the motor "catches".  Keith Horten's ducted fan flying wing
    literally skims the top of short grass before it "catches".
    
    Not to belabor the obvious, but make sure you launch into the wind,
    the CG is ok, and control surfaces are neutral centered.  A larger
    diameter prop will also help the launch but the speed and runtime
    will suffer.  A very powerful motor also helps.
    
    I have seen many Electro Streaks fly successfully, all from hand
    launch.  So I know it can be done.
    
    Tell us more about your model- weight, motor, # cells, and prop.
    This might also provide some clues.
    
    
                                                     Regards,
    
                                                     Jim   

And one more piece of information...

What's you altitude at your flying site?

    I have an electrostreak and a few comments:
    
    1.  You had better be a reasonably competent pilot.  They are fast and
    fragile on landings.
    
    2.  You need to keep it as light as possible and use the right
    prop/motor/battery combination.
    
    3.  Keep the airspeed up - don't stall it on landings.
    
    4.  Get someone else to launch it for you until it is trimmed out and
    you are used to flying it.
    
    
    
    Charlie
    

    Get someone else to launch it who is not called Ajai!.
    
    Electrostreaks are not good flying planes, in my unhumble opinion.
    
    They are twitchy on aileron, too highly wing loaded, don't turn well
    down wind when the batteries ore low, damage easily on landing due to
    wing and tail config. They roll well but sag in loops.
    
    Just my observations. what about the ES pilots?
    
    E.
      

    I disagree - Electrostreaks fly well - they are just underpowered.  The
    stock motor or the Astro 05 puts out about the power of an 049.  I get
    about 3 minutes of decent performance and then have to wait it out for
    another couple before it's time to land.  I wish it were not so, but
    electrics just don't do it for me.  (except for gliders)  An
    electrostreak with a .1 gas engine would be lots of fun.
    
    Charlie
    

    In the hands of an expert flyer, like you Charlie, I believe an 
    Electrostreak can be flown well, BUT and it is a big but, in the hands of a
    less experienced pilot it does seem to be a forgiving plane. 
    
    I think that I am refering in particular to when the battery looses
    peak power.
    
    I vividly recall seeing them wallow around with the fearfull pilots 
    hanging on the up elevator over reacting to every wing drop and twitch.
    
    This is what I saw on five or six different days with different 'streaks.
    
    Once again these are only my observations. I welcome all and any 
    dissagreement with my conclusions but I definitely saw what I saw!.
    
    Regards.
    
    E.
                                                         

    I have never flown an Elektro Streak or any power plane for that
    matter, so  my comments are based on objective observation
    as well as some personal opinions.
    
    I have seen approximately 500 electric planes fly over the last few
    years, at least 10 of them have been electro streaks.  My personal
    opinion of the Electro Streak is it should only be flown by advanced
    pilots.  Before I get to those reasons, I would like to comment about
    the design itself.  The plane is inexpensive($60 including ferrite
    motor) and essentially you get what you pay for.  The balsa/ply
    fuselage w/o landing gear is easily damaged if you can't land
    properly.  Substituting a fiberglass fuselage would improve things
    immensely.  The ferrite motor supplied is not powerful enough for
    many maneuvers.  An Astro 05 will improve things, but it is less
    powerful(and expensive) than the European motors.
    
    The reasons I think the ES should be flown by advanced pilots address
    some of the points made by Eric.  I would expect many glo only
    experienced pilots to encounter downwind turn problems(stalls) with the
    Streak(or any high performance glider).  This occurs because they
    want to raise the nose of the plane which is the wrong thing to do
    when your airspeed is already decreased.  Now you can get away with
    this if you have a lightly loaded, high lift wing airplane.  But this
    is the wrong technique with a higher wing loaded, lower drag ship(ES).
    Think of it, high wing loaded(24 oz./sq. ft.) gliders land all the time
    without any power.  But I assure you they will crash if the pilot 
    attempts to feed in up elvator when the airspeed is too low.
    
    As a very general observation, many glo trained pilots seem to pull
    back on the stick when they perceive trouble.  The high lift wings
    and powerful engines allow them to get away with this.  Transferring
    this technique to a lower lift, lower drag, airplane is trouble.
    
    Now I know some ships are *really* tricky to fly.  An electric pylon
    racer with a 6% wing and a wing loading of 27 oz/sq ft. will not be
    too forgiving.  The ES with a wing loading less than 20 oz/sq ft.
    and a thicker wing should be easier to fly.
    
    Keith Shaw's 7 cell, built up hyperon has been clocked at well over
    100 mph, it rolls effortlessly and has unlimited vertical.  *But*
    it lands dam* fast and is not a beginners airplane.  If an
    inexperienced flyer flew the Hyperon and snapped it on the downwind
    leg, it would be wrong to conclude that it was a poor design.  I
    would conclude the plane was too much for the pilot or the pilot
    does not understand the flying characteristics of the airplane.
    
    Regarding the ES being twitchy- remember it only has a 44" wingspan
    and flys relatively fast.  A *real* gentle touch on the sticks is
    necessary for smooth flight.
    
    Last but not least, it is tough to compare an electric's aerobatic
    performance to an IC design.  SO if you are used to a powerful,
    light, high lift IC pattern ship, I imagine a higher wing loaded,
    lower lift, lower drag, less powerful electric would seem to be
    a very different(worse) flyer.  To accomplish the large, relatively
    slow, constant speed pattern moves which are currently in vogue,
    an electric would have to be specially designed to spin a much larger
    prop.
    
    I think the ES could be "tamed" to fly "better" by thickening the
    wing and moving to a geared Astro motor spinning a larger prop.
    The additional thrust and higher lift wing would help with the stall.
    
    As I have mentioned may times in the past - Don't judge electric flight
    by the 7 -cell ships you have seen fly.  For the most part they
    represent the low end (price included) of what an electric can do.
    
           
                                                    Regards,
    
                                                    Jim
    
    I think in competent hands *with* the right motor the ES is a decent
    sport electric plane.
    

    I agree with Jim.  The ES is a Low End Entry into Electric sport
    flying.  That is as far as I intend to go personally.  It's fun to fly
    but the flight times are too short.  It's small and fast which requires
    reasonable skill to keep it close and keep the airspeed up.  It lands
    without a gear so you need to Grease it In on a smooth field to avoid
    damage.  But it does fly well.  
    
    Charlie
    

    Re.....But it does fly well
    
    Could have fooled me!!!!!!!! Oooops wait a minute. That was Dan Weier
    I was watching fly the ES. Not Charlie.
    
    S. 8^)
    

    Ouch!.
    
    DW? just got a broadsides!, :-)
    
    Electro"streak" is a good name for the plane.
    
    
    Regards,
    
    Eric - who is wondering how much more he can milk this one..

    Well, thank you all for your advises.
    I did fly 6 or seven different airplane bur I cannot call myself
    an experience pilot. I have flown only high wing airplane so far and my
    smoothness still need a lot of practice. From what I have read so far
    looks like I will practice my flying with the Sig Kavelier before I
    make another attemp with the ES.
    
    Jacques
    

Can't find any fault with those comments

    I experienced takeoff problems for the first time with my Robbe Arcus
    on it's maiden voyage(new wing and stab) for 1993.
    
    This ship "flew off the board" last year with an Astro 015FAI.  Ditto
    when an Ultra 900 was substituted for the Astro.
    
    I managed to fold the wing on a high speed fat thumbed pullout last
    year.  I ordered a new wing and built it over the winter.  I also
    substituted a NACA0009 stab for the original flat plate stab.
    
    I was not expecting any problems when I launched last weekend, as this 
    ship has never displayed any bad habits.  I turned the motor on
    and threw the ship.  It proceeded to "fly" right into the ground
    about 10 ft in front of me!  The prop broke and I stood there like
    an idiot until I realized - "Gee I probably should turn the motor off".
    The Graupner power switch 40 and Ultra 900 absorbed at least 5-10
    seconds of locked rotor current before I realized what had happened.
    The fact that they both still work is testament to the robustness of
    these products.
    
    I can only guess one of two thing happened:
    
    1) I gave it a wimpy toss
    2) The decalage of the new stab was off a great deal.
    
    I have seen flyers of high performance electrics at KRC first throw the
    ship out and then turn on the motor.  I had assumed they did this for
    safety reasons, but now wonder if it is to avoid breaking a
    prop/burning out a speed controller or motor, as happened to me.
    It looked a little tricky to throw a heavy ship hard enough so it
    would'nt stall and turn on the motor before it hit the ground.
    
    This was my first negative experience launching an electric.  I have
    reset the decalge on the stab and looking forward to the next launch
    with some trepidation.
    
                                                            Regards,
    
                                                            Jim

    The Arcus had two successful, uneventful flights last night.
    
    It appears correcting the stab incidence fised things.  The plane
    now flies right out of my hand.  Love that Arcus!
    
                                                
                                                   Regards,
    
                                                   Jim