Conference vmszoo::rc

		CAP20 B
		=======

	Wingspan		92.5 inch
	Fuselage length		79 inch
	Weight			20 lbs
	Engine			Zenoah ZG62
	Prop			Zinger 22x12
	Functions		elevator, ailerons, flaps, rudder, throttle
	RC			Multiplex Royal Expert (PCM)
	Servos			all Multiplex Profi (metal gear), except 
				throttle

	The plane has an epoxi fuselage and Styrofoam/Balsa sheeted wings and
	elevator. The fuselage got a detailed finish from the factory (Guenter
	Metterhausen). All I bought from a riend was the fuse, the raw wings 
	and elevator, something to hide the wheels in (....miss that word) and
	the engine cowl and canopy. NO PLAN !

	To mount the engine I used two blocks of plywood to get the 2" standoff
	and 4 screws 6mm. The muffler is silver soldered with two gas cans from
	a camping gas burner, very light. It is mounted at the backside of the 
	firewall inside the fuselage. For cooling there are two holes for the
	inlet and outlet of the muffler in the firewall, approx 2" diameter 
	and a small slot on top of the fuse. The airoutlet is underneath the 
	fuse, not quite scale (only experts would figure that out). This whole 
	space is well sealed against the rest of the fuse. 

	The rudder got pull-pull wires running inside plastic and aluminum 
	tubes. The elevator has two servos, each linkage is a 2mm steel inside 
	plastic aluminum tubes. The plastic tubes are to prevent any 
	metal-metal contact and therefore potential RC problems.

	All controll horns are made from Epoxi printed cirquit boards, epoxid
	in full length in the control surfaces. Very solid !

	The balsa sheeting of the wing, elevator and rudder is covered with
	a light glas and epoxi. Paint I used is a two component car paint,
	called Acryl-paint. (Don't know if the same expression exists in the
	english language) It's absolutely fuel prove and expensive. 

	The color sceme I put on is exactly the same as Jack Buckley had on
	his CAP10B. I even used the scale details stickers (...miss annother 
	da** word #@%&**) from Yellow Airplanes company Jack worked for.
	EXCEPT : I put the stars underneath the wing in the wrong direction,
	don't have a scale cockpit (I use such a silly looking doll...so I
	can blame her and not the pilot for any potential pilot errors),
	don't use the wheel thing, and the plane is a CAP20B instead of
	the original CAP10B - but what the heck, who cares ?  


	Holm- und Rippenbruch,  Bernd 

		CAP20B - FLIGHT REPORT
		======================

	Next day at the field, the basic pictures before the maiden flight. 
	The filling the tank, checking the radio, Gentlemen, start your 
	engines... My arm still hurted from the day before, when it finally 
	ran it hurted even more. 
	I opened the throttle and with a breathtaking acceleration it was 
	airborn within 50 yards. Flying was not too breathtaking, more like
	a kneekiller : legs where trembling so heavily ! 
	The first flight I always use as a test of its stall charakteristics
	at slow speeds. Even with the ailerons up it did tip stall. 
	Next trim check is balance: full throttle horizontal flight, close 
	throttle look what's doing. And it's taking its nose up - this baby 
	is tailheavy !  Next check was full horizontal speed, pulling full
	up elevator - it lifted its nose and doing a roll - $#%@#^& 
	(still think it's the tailheaviness - any opignons ?)
    	When flying upside down it takes the nose up, not down ! 
    	Convinced ?
    
    	After a couple of rounds I landed savely, just keep the speed up
    	a bit.
	
	One manouver I tried was the vertival performance. With a ratio 1:1
	(thrust : weight) not too spectacular. But to fly upward, hold the 
	baby vertical when it stops, watching the wings to turn slowly by
	the torque of the engine. With zero airspeed the ailerons just don't
	work anymore - hey that's great man ! The long moment arms of elev. and
	rudder make this possible.


	More when it's trimmed correctly.   Bernd
        

    
    	I added approx. 300 grams (~10 ounces) of weight to the nose. The
    	next flight showed no improvement. The CG now is 25% from the
    	leading edge. Hmmmm...
    	Due to a brocken prop I had to put on a new one, 22 x 16 (instead
    	of 22x12). The rpm went down to a moderate 5000, no loss in thrust
    	though. When flying, the trim was getting worse, I ran out of down
    	trim ?????
    	I checked the engine down thrust and decided, to try some more.
    	I added approx. 2 degrees of down, maybe a total of 3 degrees.
    
    	I'll post the results when the snow melts.
    
    
    		Bernd
    

    
    
    
    Meanwhile I reduced the angle of attack and removed all noseweigh. After
    getting used to it I enjoy every flight with this baby. It flies
    smoothly, majestic if you like and in the next moment like a pattern
    style F3A plane. The tip-stall tendency I got under control with a
    zick-zack band glued 2" behind the leading edge of the outer 1/2 of
    each wing. With the ailerons 1/2" upward I can hold her straight with 
    the engine idling and elevator full up. The landings became to 50%
    three pointers. 
    
    The u/c got some modification by adding a second set of 6mm wires
    (1/4"). Since then no more nose landings anymore !  The wheels got
    somewhat more diameter (5.5"), too. 
    
    I now use a 22 x 14 Menz prop. The rpm is around 5500 and the sound is
    deep and quiet. It pulls the same and has a higher top speed as with
    the 22 x 12. 
    
    The only negative point is the weight : The fuselage weights around 
    7.5 Kg (16.5 pounds) and the wings 3.5 Kg (7.7 pounds), a total of 
    11 Kg (24 pounds). This is 2 Kg more than expected, but the plane flies
    great anyway - so what ?  I guess the epoxy on the wings and the paint 
    add up significantly.
    
    
    a happy big_planes_pilot_and_owner,   Bernd
    

           <<< APACHE::N25480$DKA100:[JEFF.NOTES$LIBRARY]RC.NOTE;1 >>>
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Note 1477.2                   Giant/Large Aircraft                        2 of 4
KBOMFG::KNOERLE                                      10 lines  16-DEC-1992 05:27
                        -< refer topic 1409 BIG_PLANES >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Chris, there's a note already related to large aircraft. It would be
    practical to discuss this kind of topic in one note. Unless you have
    reasons to discuss this issue separetly could you move it to 
    Topic 1409 with keyword "BIG_PLANES" ?  
    
    Although it didn't seem to be of a widely spread interest.....now we
    are at least two !
    
    
    	Bernd

           <<< APACHE::N25480$DKA100:[JEFF.NOTES$LIBRARY]RC.NOTE;1 >>>
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================================================================================
Note 1477.1                   Giant/Large Aircraft                        1 of 5
MAIL::SPOHR                                          18 lines  15-DEC-1992 17:03
                                 -< Extra 230 >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I just ordered an ACE R/C 33% Extra 230 kit.  There is a rising
    interest in the local clubs here in the St. Louis area and the bug got
    me when a couple of my buddies starting flying them.
    
    It took me a few days to figure out what I wanted, but after comparing
    several Laser, extras, etc... I chose this one because of it's value.
    
    Some pertinent data:
    
    Wingspan: 96 inches
    Weight: ~ 17 lbs.
    Engine: Quadra 42 or larger (I'm thinking G62!)
    
    I'll add more after the kit arrives.
    
    Regards,
    
    Chris

    I have been informed that Santa is bringing a Bud Nosen 1/4 Scale
    Citabria for me.  I had the smaller version of the Champ and it was a
    great plane.  I'm thinking about a dieselized glow motor.  Anybody have
    any experience with one of these??
    
    Will

    
    A dieselized big gazer ?  I could imagine that those biggies would
    produce big vibrations. You know, the compression rate is around twice
    as high as a Glowplugger/Gazzer. Mayber there are other experiences/
    opignions ?  
    
    Why dieselize anyway ?
    
    Bernd

    I received a propaganda pak from Davis Diesel Development on the heads
    available to convert from glow to diesel. 
    
    According to them, a Fox .74 will swing a 16X6 without distress at
    around 9000 RPMs.  They are quieter and cheaper to fuel.
    
    I have been obsessing on getting the ultimate quiet airplane by
    experimenting with mufflers, vibration isolation mounting and prop
    experiments.  I would definitely iso mount the motor and probably put a
    super muffler on it too.  Between that and the diesel (which is not as
    noisy as a glow engine) this one should be very quiet.
    
    Another reason to dieselize is to have a cheaper engine to begin with.
    
    Will

    
    Okay, a .74 explaines it. I've seen the advertizement of this size of
    dieselized engine. When you said 1/4 scale I immediatelly thought about
    the Supertigre series of engines (2000 - 3000). Will this engine pull
    that plane ?
    
    Bernd

    I'm very curious about the Extra 230 from ACE. Not long ago, I had to
    choose between this one and the Sukoi 26  that I finally bought. now
    it's still waiting to be built...
    
    
    Bernd 

    The Bud Nosen Citabria came in the mail yesterday.  It is supposed to
    build at between 10 and 12 pounds.  With about 1450 sq inches of area
    this puts wing loading at between 16 and 19 ounces per square foot. 
    It's a flat bottom airfoil (clark Y).  I spoke with a fellow at Davis
    Diesel yesterday who had the Champ from Nosen.  He told me of a friend
    of his who flew one with a dieselized Fox .61 motor and he thought the
    dieselized Fox .74 would do just fine.  If you've ever built one of the
    old Guillows "stick and tissue" models this is like a 1/4 scale version
    of that type of building.
    
    I ordered the Cowl and wheel pants today.
    
    Will

    
    Please keep the reports on your building progress coming. I'm real
    interested how these Bud Nosen kits come together. How is the quality
    of the kit ? Prefabrication ?  One's for shure, the ratio wing_area / $  
    looks very good. I wonder 'bout the 10-12 pound though.
    
    
    Bernd
     

    I will post progress notes here.  The Bud Nosen kits are put out by A&A
    industries.  There is no prefab with the exception of some die cutting.
    The wood quality for this kit is similar to the 65" Champ I purchased
    from them years ago, its OK but not outstanding.  Individual pieces are
    fine but there will be a few pieces I will replace.  The instructions
    for the entire plane amount to two pages with no pictures so you have
    to like building!  The plans are the original Bud Nosen Drawings and
    are very will penned.
    
    Willf

    I have talked with several 1/4 scale flyers who tell me that a
    dieselized FOX .74 would fly the plane just fine, however, I should
    expect "realistic" performance, i.e. a bit sluggish.  So I'm changing
    engine plans to a Zenoah 38.  
    
    Will

    Well, I'm not able to start building my Extra 230 until March due to
    time constraints, but....
    
    Last Friday, I ordered an A&M 4.2 engine for it.  The folks at A&M are
    nice and real talkative if you ask a question.  
    
    Can't wait for it to arrive! 

    I got the fuselage about 80% done this weekend.  I ordered some 1/4",
    1/8" and 1/16" ply sheet from Balsa USA and cut another firewall and F2
    in 1/4" and recut the inside cabin reinforcement in 1/8".  The wood
    provided with the kit for the firewall, #2 former and inner cabin
    reinforcement was similar to what a hollow door would be
    skinned with and unacceptable to me. The Zenoah G38 arrived in the mail
    with an 18/6-10 Zinger and a B&B mount.  I'm sending the mount back and
    using Lord Corp sandwhich mounts on the stock Zenoah mount. The ply
    from Balsa USA was excellent quality and cheap!  The 1/4"X12"X48" sheet
    was under $8.00!  I have to wait until the fuel tank and Landing gear
    to arrive before I proceed.  Big sure is easier to build, its fun to be
    able to put both hands into the fuse to install a part!
    
    Will  

    Spent some time this weekend gusseting the fuse, installing the floor
    and the landing gear and tail wheel.  I got halfway through getting the
    pull pull control arms set up from an article in RCM.  I have to wait
    for the servos to arrive before I make the control arm placement
    permanent.  Always funny how that last 20% takes about twice as long to
    complete as the first 80%!
    
    Will

    I completed the horizontal and vertical stabilizers, the rudder and the
    elevators this weekend.  Got them mounted and installed the tail brace
    wires.  Over 70 pieces in the tail brace wires!  Also installed
    pull-pull controls for the rudder and elevator using Dubro 4-40
    pull-pull kit and control horns I made out of brass using silver solder
    and based on an article in RCM.
    
    The size allows you to do some things not practical on smaller planes.
    The tail was built to be easily removable.  Where the fuse sides come
    together at the tail I cut a small triangle shaped piece of 1/4" ply
    and CA'd it flush with the top of the fuse sides.  Three holes were
    drilled in this piece, two near the top and one about half way back in
    the center.  Blind nuts were installed on the bottom side of these
    three holes.  The stab is 3/8's of an inch thick.  The center piece of 
    the stab was made out of a 1/4" piece of ply and is rectangular in
    shape.  Holes were drilled in the stab center piece to match the three
    already drilled in the triangular piece.  Two additional holes were 
    drilled opposite the two top holes.   A piece of 1/8th inch ply was 
    cut to match the stab center.  Five holes were drilled to match those
    in the 1/4 ply piece. The vertical stab was glued to the 1/8" piece.
    
    So to put the tail on you place the horizontal stab on the fuse, secure
    it with the single center bolt.  The the rudder is placed on top of the
    stab center and the four bolts are inserted to hold the plate flush
    into the stab and to the fuse.  Clear as mud??  Works neat.
    
    Will
    

    
    
    Since this note is centered on big planes I thought I'd add a comment
    on my latest endeavor of a big plane.  I have just completed the new
    Sig Four Star 120.  Let me say that this plane is a breeze to build and
    fly.  (I have built three previous Four Stat 40's and read that the 120
    was the same design.)  The plane is really nothing more than an
    'exploded' Four Star 40.  Every piece of wood is an exact duplicate,
    except for size, of the 40 size ship.  Only real exception would be the
    built up tail surfaces, which are covered with 1/16 balsa, and the way
    in which you mount them to the fuse.  (NOTE:  The first few kits
    shipped by Sig are missing a sheet of 1/16 inch balsa sheeting.  It is
    used in covering the tail surfaces.  Sig has notified all hobby stores
    that have ordered these kits, about this error.)  I thought I had 
    misplaced or used the wrong piece of balsa during building when I came
    up short.  I went and purchased a 30''X4''X1/16 sheet to finish the 
    plane.  The next day upon going back to my local hobby store, the owner
    informed me of the message he received from Sig about the error.  Oh,
    well at least the plane flys.
    
    Mine has  a ST 3000, (more power than recommended) which really pulls
    this 12 lb. plane through the air.  I used Century 21 fabric, cub
    yellow, which I then prayed with the same color of Century 21 paint.
    I used two Futaba quarter scale servos for elev. and rudder and two
    regular size for ailerons.  (Of course one for the throttle.)
    
    The plane was slightly tail heavy until I placed my 1400mah rx battery
    under the fuel tank.  (There is a ton of room under the tank.)
    
    Overall comments:
    
    	Materials		Excellent
    
    	Plans			2 rolled sheets
    
    	Building		Simple, straight forward, no 'gotchas'.
    				Only concern here was fitting wing into
    				the wing saddle.  Seems that the wing is
    				about 1/16 of an inch to wide to fit.
    				Either trim trailing edge of wing, where it
    				meets wing saddle or enlarge wing saddle
    				at the back former.  (Funny, all my 40's
    				had same problem, HHHHMMM.)
    
    Flying			Nothing to it.  You do need to keep up your
    				speed when landing but nothing drastic.
    
    

    re -1
    I have been waiting for this kit for quite some time, but was alos
    waiting for someone to review it before I ordered.  Is the aileron full
    wing length on this guy like it is on the 40?  I plan to modify by
    adding flaps and retractable landing gear if the wing will support it.
    Did you make it a tail dragger as the plans called for?  A couple of
    guys in our club made their 40s with tri-gear (nosewheel) to offset the
    tail weight.  I'm considering this on the 120, but will wait until that
    time comes in the building cycle before I decide.
    
    Robert

    Robert,
    
    Yes the ailerons are full length as in the 40.  It is amazing but
    everything on this kit is just like its 'little brother."
    
    I made it a tail dragger as shown in the plans.  I find trikes a bit
    painful to build due to steering linkage problems.  The plane is
    slightly nose heavy so I added about 1 oz. of lead to the tail.
    I placed it up inside the fuse just in front of the tail wheel.
    
    As for flaps I suppose the plane will support the modification.  I for
    one am not that talented to make such changes.  You should know that
    this plane has, as all big birds usually do, aileron servos mounted in
    the wings.  This may.maynot be helpful when you decide to put in flaps.
    
    The landing gear is mounted just as in the 40 size.  Bolted to a large
    piece of plywood.  (I decide to change the way the wheels are mounted
    to the plywood.  I drilled and taped 1/4 20 screw holes and use nylon
    1/4 20 bolts.  They seem to hold up on landings since the plane only 
    weighs about 12 lbs.  Some people shy away from nylon bolts for this
    but I feel on a hard landing they will break instead of the block mounted
    to the fuse.  Which has happened on my 40 size.)
    
    Hope all this helps.
    
    P.S. The cost for the kit, here in Georgia was $123.95.  Sig advertises
    it for $179.95.  FYI

re -1
        
>    I made it a tail dragger as shown in the plans.  I find trikes a bit
>    painful to build due to steering linkage problems.  The plane is
>    slightly nose heavy so I added about 1 oz. of lead to the tail.
>    I placed it up inside the fuse just in front of the tail wheel.
 
    Did you try mounting the engine as far forward as possible before
    adding the weight.  I had the same problem on my 40 before one other
    club members suggested using a longer engine mount.
       
>    As for flaps I suppose the plane will support the modification.  I for
>    one am not that talented to make such changes.  You should know that
>    this plane has, as all big birds usually do, aileron servos mounted in
>    the wings.  This may.maynot be helpful when you decide to put in flaps.
    
    Do the plans call for the aileron servos to be mounted in the middle of
    the wing or more towards the fuselage?  If in the middle to outer part
    of the wing, then adding flaps will be easier!
        
    I decided against retracts for this bird for 2 reasons; 1) cost and 2)
    speed (speed kills, that's why I'm adding flaps!).
    
    thanx for the info
    
    Robert

re .22 Rich,

>>  P.S. The cost for the kit, here in Georgia was $123.95.  

This has nothing to do with big planes, but when I saw the word "Georgia", I had
to reply. I grew up in Georgia, but moved to the NE about 8 years ago. I hope
to go down and visit my family this fall(pack a plane along with the wife and
kids!) Where do you guys fly? I vaugely remember a flying site that was just off
Route 400(in Duluth maybe?) I used to see guys fly when I was heading up to Lake
Lanier. At the time, I wasn't that interested in RC but enjoyed watching the 
guys fly. Sorry for the ramble, but seeing Georgia mention broguht back some
memories.

-Lamar

    Ref .-1
    
    Lamar,
    
    I to am a transplant of sort. I moved to Ga. back in '83 as a sales
    rep.  
    There is a flying field off of Ga. 400, somewhere arounf exit 10.
    I don't fly there but I know it exists.  (The DEC facility is at exit
    7 of Ga. 400.)
    
    I fly with a club in Douglasville.  Although I don't live in Douglas
    County, (which usually is a requirement) I have friends who are
    members so i joined.  It is about a 45 min. ride via interstate
    just to get there.  The field is the old county dump which is what
    most fields around here are made from.  We have a 50' X 300' paved
    and sealed runway thanks to the county.  (Didn't cost the club a
    penny.)
    
    Let me know where your relatives are located and I just might take you
    up on your offer.  Always nice to meet people who have relations at
    DEC.
    
    Rich

    Ref .-2
    
    Robert,
    
    I could not move the engine any further out, i.e. away from the
    firewall due to the fact that I had a predrilled J-tec engine mount.
    Also it positioned the engine just perfectly in refernce to prop
    clearance from fuse.
    
    The aileron servos are mounted in the wings per Sig instructions.
    They are in the middle rib bay which makes them equal distance from
    both fuse and wingtip.  (Or at least pretty close.)
    
    If you can find an ad for the plane, say in like the March issue of 
    AMA's Model Aviation pg. 22., you'll see where the aileron control
    horns are mounted.  This will give you some idea of where the servos
    go. The picture doesn't do it justice in that it looks like they are
    closer to the fuse than wingtip, maybe by an 1" or 2".
    
    One other note: Sig shows building it with normal size servos, i.e.
    no big 1/4 scale jobs.  I did use 2 quarter size servos s-134's for
    elevator and rudder. In the wings you would use S-148's.
    
    Hope this is helpful.

Actually I was wrong about the time I've been in New England. It will be 10 
years this July. My, my, how time flies! I grew up in the Dunwoody area(NW side
of Atlanta) and my parents still live there. I started working for DEC while I
was still living in Atlanta(at the old Atlanta CSC site.) It's great to know I
have a contact when I get down south again. 

-Lamar

    re .26
    
    Thanx for the help Rich.  My local hobby shop owner has ESP!  He just
    called to inform me that he now has in stock 2 120 kits.  Will be going
    up tonight to drool.  Unfortunately due to being relocated from
    Burlington, VT to Salem, NH, will have to wait until late Spring before
    I will probably have a working area set up to begin construction. 
    Again thanx for the info and happy flying.
    
    Robert

    I got the engine (G38) mounted using the B&B soft mount system, got the
    fuel tank and smoker liquid tank mounted, installed the smoker pump and
    the on/off valve and got the plumbing and throttle linkage installed. 
    all of this stuff must have doubled the weight of the fuselage!  I also
    got a pair of 1200 MAh rx batteries from the folks at SR.  I will run
    two switch harnesses into the rx.  A few more details with the hardware
    and I can remove all this stuff and get the firewall and tank
    compartment fuelproofed so I can finish closing it up and get on to the
    wings.  I'm going to make a test bed for the motor and tanks and get
    the engine broken in and the tanks tested for leaks prior to remount.
    Big is beautiful!
    
    Will

If you run two full harnesses then you might want to install diodes
between the switch and Rx on each so they can't reverse "charge" each 
other. If you don't do something like this then a bad cell will just 
drag the other pack down to the same level and you gain nothing. If 
you do it between the switch and Rx then you can still charge with the 
normal charging jack individually.

hi big planers,

i agree with jim, that when using two rx-packs, diodes
should be used.

some more points are to be considered:

on big planes servos can be mounted near the control
surfaces. this results in short, and therefore stronger
and flutter-free connections from the servo to the
control horn/surface.

on the other side, mounting the servos next to the surface,
involves a rather great distance from the rx. additionally
servos are bigger and working harder on big planes,
resulting in a higher current. if you combine the higher
current with the normally rather thin servo cables
over the distance to the rx, you may come out with a 
considerable loss of voltage at the servo.

in my opinion and other peoples experience it is ok to
use a five-cell pack with a diode each under this
circumstances. from the above it is also clear, that
the diode MUST NOT be one of the 1N4148-type, but more
in the direction of 1N4001 or even bigger (= better).
you lose 0.7 v on the diode anyway, so the rx is
running at 5.3v. this value can also be reached by a
freshly charged 4 cell pack and surely wont destroy
the rx.

a additional workaround implemented for a 5m-sailplane:
i took standard 0.75mm*2 gauge wire and soldered it
directly to the servo-pcb, the other end then was
soldered to a standard plug for my rx, but with the red
and black leads shortened very much. the pulse-carrying
wire was left as it was. 

in the mags i have seen ads, that even promoted the
following: you redo the complete plus/minus wiring from
the packs to the servos with a high-gauge-wiring, with
a big main switch etc. connections to the servos and
rx's are then done with short cables/plugs as furnished
with your equipment.

stay up!
joe t.

    I called SR, explained my mistake and they are going to take the four
    cell batteries back and give me 5 cell batteries.  ACE has a 2X5 back
    up device that lets you run off of two packs unless one goes bad in
    which case it cuts the bad pack out and lights an LED to indicate a
    bad, weak or shorted pack.  
    
    Will

    I spackled the fuse last night.  I have taken almost all of the hardware 
    off of it and coated the firewall and fuel tank bay with epoxy.  All that 
    remains to complete the fuse is securing the servo mounts, installing the 
    Rx and batteries, installing a couple of access/inspection panels, 
    mounting the cowl and wheel pants, final sanding and covering and 
    remounting of all of the hardware with lock tite.  
    
    Does anybody know if balsarite is gasoline proof?  I want to protect
    the wood sheeting along the bottom that will be exposed to smoke residue 
    (light oil or diesel liquid) and the area under and behind the cowl where 
    I am bound to splash some fuel and smoke liquid.
    
    Will 
    

    The fuse is complete sans covering.  But this plane is as much a
    scratch built effort as a kit.  I don't want to rush its completion so
    I have decided to finish it this winter when its cold and dark outside.
    
    In the meantime I have all of this quarter scale gear sitting around 
    and no realistic hope of flying any of it this summer.  So I bought a 
    plane called a Triple Play produced by Chuck Cunningham of RCM fame.  
    
    It can be built as a low wing, shoulder wing or cabin wing airplane.  I
    am building it as a low wing taildragger.
    
    It is all machine cut parts and very simple construction.  I built the
    wing in two evenings and one Saturday.  
    
    Its an 88 inch span using a very thick symetrical airfoil and a slight
    sweep in the wing.  No dihedral and zero zero incidence.  My G-38 will
    be used for power.  The fuse should be finished this week and it should
    be flying next week.
    
    Will

    
    Hmmmm, symetrical wing, zero incidence, low wing, tail dragger, ZG38 - 
    sounds like real fun. Please report more, I always like to hear about
    the big stuff....
    
    
    	Bernd
    

    I took a vacation day yesterday and built the horizontal and vertical
    stabilizer and the fuse.  For a motor mount I'm using a Davis Diesel
    radial mount with his iso mounts.  That should arrive in the mail next
    week.  By then it will be time to mount the motor and the first flight
    should be in about 10 days.
    
    For a rating this kit gets a B+ for wood quality, a B- for Plans 
    quality, and a C for the written instructions.  Its very simple to 
    build and my goal with it was to build it as simple as possible, I
    have managed to resist every urge to make it more complicated.
    
    Will 

    Built an engine stand and ran the G38 for the first time.  I used a
    leather glove and hand started it.  It required some serious priming to
    fire it up but ran great once running.  I screwed the engine stand to a
    tree stump in my yard and ran about 6 oz on Friday evening.  Saturday I
    took it to a flying field and screwed the stand to a cable drum and ran
    about 20 oz of fuel through it.  After about 10 oz I leaned the high
    speed screw about one eighth of a turn and got excellent idle to full
    throttle response.  The engine runs about 15 minutes on 6 oz of 20 to 1
    gas/oil mixture.  Gas is a pain because of the smell and the issues of
    transporting it but it sure will be cheap to run!  I will run a 24 oz
    tank in the Triple Play.
    
    The wing and stabilizers are covered.  Its triple gawdy!  I used neon
    in an orange/yellow/orange bar pattern on the top of the wing and
    red/blue/red on the bottom with green wing tips.  The fuse will be
    yellow on top with blue and red on the bottom.
    
    Still waiting for the motor mount from Davis to finish it up.  Should
    be able to fly it this weekend if the parts come.
    
    Will

    Well the folks at Davis still had not shipped the promised motor mount
    as of last Friday, so I cancelled the order and used a B&B soft mount
    set up that was being used on the Nosen plane.
    
    The triple play is now nearly finished.  I still need to get two RF
    chokes for the long wing servo leads and install the radio and
    batteries for final balanced placement.
    
    If the rain gives up long enough for the field to dry here in Iowa I
    will fly it this weekend.
    
    Will

    I got to fly the Triple Play this weekend.  What a fantastic
    experience!
    
    There was a break in the AM weather on Saturday so I dashed to the
    field with my Gremlin and the Triple Play.  I warmed up the old 
    fingers with a quick session of blasting around with the Gremlin.
    
    Then I got the Triple Play set up, did all the range checking with the
    motor off and then with the motor on.  Taxied around a while to warm it up 
    and get a feeling for ground handling.  Since nothing I did would get
    me calmed down I took off.  
    
    The plane has plenty of power and flys much slower than I anticipated,
    it may just be the size (88" wing) but it is relaxing to fly because
    there is no sense of urgency with controlling it.  I had to trim the
    ailerons about three clicks to get consistent level flight but after
    that it flew hands off no problems.
    
    The first flight lasted about 15 minutes.  The landing was a little
    bouncy but the grass strip if very forgiving and easy on the wing tips
    too!  I stopped it to look it over, took the wing off to be sure
    everything was staying in place, buttoned it up and after giving myself
    a few minutes to calm down, took off again.
    
    The second flight I just did circles in the sky and flew
    conservatively.  Tried some stalls and steep turns.  Managed one roll. 
    The second landing was much smoother.  This plane comes down
    purposefully when you back off the power and you must hold a few clicks
    of throttle to keep descent from being too steep.  The second flight
    lasted about 12 minutes.
    
    I packed up and went home to give it a good looking over before any
    more flying.
    
    Sunday I went out in the AM and managed only about 10 minutes before a
    light rain started.  But in the afternoon the sun came out and I had an
    excellent afternoon of flying.  I like to go up and play for 45 minutes
    to an hour, then quit and come home.  This engine will run about an
    hour on 24 oz of gas.  I flew continuously for 50 minutes.  When I
    landed I emptied the tank and had about 5 oz left in the tank.  What a
    blast.  I also had the field to myself.
    
    I practiced landings and must have got in thirty or thirty five.  I have
    the trim and throttle settings down for a nice controlled descent.  In
    between landings I looped and rolled and stall turned and had a
    fantastic time with the plane.  With a little up trim it will fly very
    slow.  Inverted it needs nearly no trim to fly flat and steady.  On
    take off you must feed in throttle slowly as an abrupt increase will
    turn it left right now.
    
    If your looking for a big plane that looks good and flys great this
    one is worth considering.           
    
    Will
    

    Two weeks ago a friend slapped on my shoulder saying something like :
    Hi buddy - wanna buy a new plane for your ZG62 ?  I kinda shocked that
    someone actually wants some money from me for some sort of plane. Well
    knowing that a flyable plane for a ZG62 would cost well above DM 500.-
    I responded : Well, ya know, I - aeh - presently am not planning on
    large projects and - aeh - didn't want to spend million's of $$$$ on a
    new plane."  Curious I asked : "btw - what plane was it you wanted to
    get rid off ?"  "1/3rd scale Pitts Special" - I exactly knowing that
    his plane is kind'a real great I was shure that no offer below 650.-
    would be worth to discuss. Allthough I already passed I asked (to give 
    him the feeling that at least someone shows some sort of interest) 
    "What did you want for that Pitts anyway ?"  "200" he said. "When can I
    come to pick her up "  was my reply 1.5 microseconds later. 
    I really bought this one for DM 200.- (maybe $ 130.-). I even got the
    tank with it, some film, plan and other hardware. I was surprized he
    didn't ask to take his Profi Servos' as well  :-)
    
    Soooo, I put my ZG62 in it, fittet the modified original Zenoah muffler
    on it, installed my radio, wheels and weighted this cube. 10 Kilos,
    shure on the heavy side but 1 Kilogram below the Cap20.
    
    Some Tests on the ground showed the radio's okay and the engine's
    running reliably. One point though : In the CAP20 I built my own
    muffler and in the Pitts I used the original muffler. Guess What :
    The own_design muffler delivered 5900 rpm on a 22 x 12, the original
    muffler delivered 5400 rpm on the same prop !  And I need this 500 rpm
    real bad. With this big prop 500 rpm are alot !
    The next thing will be : built annother muffler.
    
    Flying was interesting, the Pitts likes the speed high. On on flight I
    throttled too far back on the top of a turn and I saw the prop
    stopping! Panik for a short moment and bring her down. Glide ratio
    without power 2:1 (can see the grin on Jim's face :-)  Landing was
    exiting to say at least, but not too bad. 
    Annother landing I throttled too much and the speed was a bit too slow,
    one too hard landing (a bit less than a greaser) for a biggy, but no
    damage either. All other landings where great.
    The vertical is a bit less than 1:1 (far beyond HTA membership
    requirement :-) ), but enough for sport flying. 
    
    The sound is great as usual, and the view of such a big Pitts is really
    something. It's painted in ROTHMAN'S colour sceme. 
    
    
    
    	Bernd
      

    I am thinking about kit bashing the ACE 120 biplane into an ultimate
    look alike per the November RCM.  
    
    Does anybody have any experience with an OS 3500 BGX???  If the ACE 120
    is built light enough I may get closer to that elusive unlimited 
    vertical performance.
    
    Bernd, today is the first time I've seen your previous note.  What a
    deal on a big Pitts!  I used to have a much smaller Pitts, it was not
    relaxing to fly but it was fun.  Of course relaxing is not the reason
    to have a Pitts anyway.
    
    Will

    
    I heart possitive saying about the BGX, but no personal experience. I
    do have personal experience with the Super Tigre 2500 though in a Super
    Star with 6 Kg (approx. 13.2 pounds). The engine is running very
    reliable with a thrust/weight ratio 1:1 with a standard axpansion
    muffler. If I would need more power a tuned pipe would do that.
    
    
    Bernd
    

    I read a review of the BGX that was not very good.  It was in RC
    Report.
    
    Charlie
    

    In that case I'd go with a ST 2500/3000 or a gazoline engine. Maybe the
    Webra Bully could be a powerful alternative as well (available both
    for methanol or gazoline). Don't forget to consider the Moki....
    
    
    Bernd
    

    I picked this up off the internet a while ago and include it here since
    the engine is being talked about etc....
    
    Eric.
    
Article 17560 of rec.models.rc:
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
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From: D1KAK@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU
Subject: O.S.BGX-1 FIX
Message-ID: <16C5ACF94.D1KAK@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU>
Sender: news@news.uakron.edu
Organization: The University of Akron
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Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1993 18:45:39 GMT
Lines: 37

 
HI GUYS,
I finally got my O.S. BGX-1 (3500) to run the way I wanted it to.
For the benefit of those who own one of these monsters, here is what
it took to make mine run right. First, and foremost you need to use the
larger diameter fuel tubing on and in your tanks. The smaller diameter
tubing just doesn't seem to supply enough fuel to get a good needle
on this engine. I recommend using the DuBro solder on brass barbs on
your brass tubing in your tanks. This prevents the large tubing from
slipping off. The next thing that my particular plane required was a
2 oz. hopper tank mounted on the firewall. This provides the engine with
a consistent fuel level which in turn gives a more consistent mixture.
Third, I added a Perry (Varsanne) oscillating pump to the system.
This little pump puts out more than enough fuel to keep the 3500
satisfied.
Since these modifications were made I have done several local
airshows and 20 or so practice shows, with NO PROBLEMS.
I had been a little frustrated with the motor but now I have another
on order for my back-up plane.
Finally, I can recommend this motor to others as a more powerful
replacement for your Super Tigre 3000's. It has given me the power
to do several maneuvers which were out of the question before.
**************************************************************
*                                                            *
*           KRAIG KRUMM  (AMA59622)             ___|___      *
*              KRUMM@UAKRON.EDU            -------( )------  *
*           THE UNIVERSITY OF AKRON               / \        *
*                AKRON, OHIO                  BUDLIGHT 200   *
*                                                            *
*                                                            *
*    "AN INTELLIGENT CARROT? THE MIND BOGGLES."              *
*                                                            *
*                                                            *
**************************************************************

    Thanks for the info!  I am thinking about mounting my tank on the CG
    and using a pump anyway.
    
    Will

    After asking around about the BGX and talking to a few people who have
    them I have decided to run it on gasoline.  Seems like 24 oz of alcohol
    in ten minutes would be a pretty expensive way to go so..
    
    I ordered a pro spark, which is a battery powered solid state unit to
    convert my BGX to gas with.  The fuel consumption may be only slightly
    less but the cost to run it will be significantly less.  The unit has a
    hall sensor that you mount over the track of a magnet you imbed in the
    prop drive, instead of achieving mechanical advance by moving the hall
    sensor the unit has a preset advance curve that kicks in at 3000 rpm. 
    You can adjust the total advance from 18 to 38 degrees with a pot on
    the unit.
    
    Test report using an engine stand to follow.
    
    Will

    Will,
    	You realize that performance on gas will be far less - and make
    sure that you use a fuel system consistent with gas.  (no silicone)
    Fuel - air mix is different but the standard carb will probably work
    with major adjustments on high and low speed mixture.  Fuel consumption
    will be much less.  I can run my G-38 15 minutes on 16 oz of gasoline.
    By the way I really like the G-38 on gas.  It's economical and very
    easy to run.  I never touch the needles.  I don't like the smell and
    you have to be much more careful handling the fuel though.  I leave my
    alcohol engines and fuel in the hot car - but never gasoline.
    
    Charlie
    

    Charlie,
    
    I had anticipated a slight loss in power, however, the test results
    from the Pro Spark are showing the loss to be minimal due to the
    ability to advance the spark.  I too have a G-38 and I love it.  I
    could swear I get 40 to 50 minutes on 16 ounces of gas depending on 
    the wind. I may be off on the tank size, I'll check.  I was looking at
    the BGX the other day and the only part I think I have to replace is
    the carb O-ring.  I had not thought much about the air fuel mix.  Which
    way do you think it would go, richer or leaner??  What size prop do you
    run on your G-38?
    
    Will

    Will,
    	Gas runs a leaner mix than alcohol.  16 oz with a BGX would be way
    less than 10 minutes at full throttle on alcohol.  I only get 10
    minutes with my OS61 with pipe.  Why does the wind affect fuel
    mileage???  Only if you are flying more throttle.  I can get longer
    flights than 15-20 if I fly at low throttle, but my Ultra-Hots likes
    throttle if it isn't going straight and level or down.  (it spends very
    little time straight and level)  Spark advance will give you more power
    over a fixed advance if the fixed advance is not enough, but some fixed
    advance engines are timed for pretty fast running.  That's why they
    don't hand start easily.  Timing advance really makes starting a dream
    as well as helping the high RPM.
    	Go with a neoprene o-ring for gas if you can find one.  Viton may
    be ok also.  Stay away from silicone.  If you are unsure, soak it in
    gas-oil mix overnight.  If it is still the same diameter, it's ok.
    
    
    Charlie
    

    Charlie,
    With the wind really blowing I wind up running wide open more than if
    it is calm hence the decrease in flying time.   The pro spark has zero
    degrees advance until the motor hits 3000 rpms to make starting easier.  
    What size prop are you running on your Ultra Hots?
    
    Will

    Will,
    	I'm running an 18 inch prop - I forget the pitch.  It's
    progressive.  I'll try to remember to check it.  Most fixed timing
    setups have too much advance for starting and not enough for maximum
    power at full throttle.  To prevent kickback, they set the gap to
    prevent a spark at low RPM.  This means you need a good fast flip to
    get them started.  I use a spring starter on my G-38 and it starts
    very easily.
    
    Charlie
    

    Charlie,
    
    I run an 18/6-10 in my G-38.  I checked the tank, its a 24 oz. I was
    curious about your prop size because of your run times with 16oz, I
    thought you might be turning a smaller prop at a higher RPM.  
    
    Will 

    Will,
    	I can't remember if it's an 18/6-10 but I think I'm running more
    pitch than that.   I also forget what RPM I'm running because it's been
    two years since I measured it.  Performance is good.  I can't fly the
    whole 16 oz in one flight as it is so there's no way I'd need more fuel
    load.  It's just dead weight.
    
    Charlie