Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

      We leave for PA on Thursday night. Were going to scout on Friday
    morning then do some fishing and mayby pop a few chucks.  My buddy who
    owns the farm said that the birds are talking.  He has seen several
    nice toms as well as a bunch of jakes.  The fishing has gotten alot
    better the last week.  Said that the water has gone down a bit in the
    rivers and the fish are biting.  Should be a fun trip.  We have to come
    back Sunday but already have plans to return later in the month.
    
    Jeff

    
    
       I returned last night from a long weekend in Pa., saturday morning
    my stepdad came up to the camper and said we had a visitor friday night
    I was figuring a friend stopped by to see if we had arrived yet but
    that wasnt it.
    
       He said that a ~400lb  black bear walked across the field and then
    went by the camper to check it out, I said then that explains why Mo &
    Jo were carrying on so much last night when I let them out of the
    truck, and Mo was really growling around 3:30 sat. morning.  we walked
    around and found some of the tracks.
    
      Sunday I started cutting the hay field at the camper and the 10th
    trip around 2 deer walked right out into the mowed part and milled
    around while I mowed, they walked to within 20 feet of the tractor  
    then they walked too close and decided that in the woods was safer but 
    they stood there a good while watching me.
     sunday evening 2 gobblers walked out into the field above the camper
    and I swear they were just rubbing it in since saturday was the last
    day and I couldnt even raise a peep and here is 2 gobblers out
    strutting within a hundred yards of camp! then 4 deer walked up over 
    the hill from camp and crossed about 50 yrds from the camper. 
    
    
        Well till next time,  
    
                                 Lee
    

    Saw a good size doe in broad daylight (around noon) yesterday behind
    the Stow facility by the softball field.  She fed and meandered out
    there for about an hour, even though joggers and gardeners were all
    over the place.
    
    Mark.

    Mark,
    
    She knows she is safe, doesn't she?
    
    I took the kids to a local lake/park here in Ohio that had several deer	
    in a pen with a couple of gobblers.  The turkeys looked like wild ones,
    except they had the white tipped tail feathers instead of the tan. 
    The kids sure had a blast watching them(so did I).  I owl hooted and
    the both gobbled, and started drumming.  
    
    We slid over by the boatdock and caught about 15 small pumpkinseeds and
    called it a day.
    
    Wess

    Imagine this.....After the 4th holiday, I spent the fifth visiting my
    folks while on a biz trip in Mass and working from their back deck with 
    my lead followup system using their cordless phone and my laptop.
    
    About 10:30am I catch movement to my right and look up.  Not 15yds away
    is a magnificent buck, with his head down feeding on the grass in the
    back lawn!!!  Actually probably eating the little apples down from
    baldwin tree. He catches my startlement, looks up for about 15sec and
    then.....goes back to eating.  I am floored.  His rack is just started
    with a heavy main beam about 2-3in long and this splitting into two
    short, fat branches that end in stubs of about 2in each.  So
    technically he is a four pointer at the moment.  This thick stubby rack
    is about ear high.
    
    He was so nonchalant abou this, I pick up the phone and dial up my
    hunting buddy in Michigan and tell him what's up. Once again he swears
    he will move out of the city as soon as possible.....
    
    Thanks, Massachuestts for a wonderful day at the "office".
    

    Went fishing Monday morning until about 9:30 and stopped by my elderly 
    aunt's house to drop her off some fish.  My buddy was along and I told
    him to go out to her barn and see if he could knock off a groundhog. 
    The only pistol he had with him was a little .22 derringer about 3
    inches long.  He went out and after about 5 minutes I heard him shoot.
    He said he missed by about 2 inches.  We were climbing into his truck
    to leave when I saw the groundhog stick his head out under the barn
    door.  I asked for my friends "toy" pistol and crawled on my belly to
    a big stump (about 20 feet from the groundhog).  I cocked the little
    pistol back and eased around the tree.  POW!   Let's just say he won't
    be eating anymore of her garden.  I put the stinger right between his
    eyes.  My buddy swears it was luck....he is probably right.
    
    
    Wess

    Howdy,
    
     Since Bob and Earl are no longer employed at this wonderful place and
    can no longer enter the SOUTHERN HUNTING update. I guess I will try. I
    am one of those Field Service Folks so I don't know how much time I can 
    devote to this update. This may be number one of one but I hope not
    I will try to give you folks something to read every now and then. 
    
     THE FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESS IS THAT DEER SEASON OPEN IN JUST A LITTLE
    OVER ONE MONTH.
    
     OPENING DAY FOR ALL WEAPONS HERE IS ON AUGUST 14 1994.
     Ending day will be Jan 2 1995.
    
     Sorry but I had to shout I am almost ready most of the stands are up
    and this year looks like a good one from the scouting I have done so
    far.
     This years limits are the same as last year ...NONE... on antlered
    deer with does on a permit determined by your very friendly game warden
    or a somewhat shorter "DOE DAYS" if you don't like the number of tags
    approved by said warden.
    
    
                                                      Darrell Seats @CHA

    Darrell,
    
    I was wondering if there was anyone else out there.  I pulled my bow
    out last weekend(bought it from Harris) and can't wait to break it
    in on a big buck come October.  
    
    I am going down to my dad's the 2nd week of Oct. to try and score
    on a turkey with it, wish me luck. I was down there last weekend and
    saw 5 hens with their broods, about 30+ turkeys in one flock.  Needless
    to say, I can't wait.  I did manage to slip behind the dam and catch
    a 10lb flathead and a mess of crappie and bluegill, so it was somewhat
    productive.
    
    Wess

    Wess,
     
     Less than three weeks till opening day and all is excellent. We just
    put out some field peas and soybeans and both are up to good deer
    feeding height now seeing many,many deer in these fields every time 
    I go looking for them. The corn is about ready to shell so food right
    now is very plentiful and it looks like all the deer from miles around 
    are coming to the table. I have seen some good bucks and almost all the
    fawns seen to be twins so next year looks good too. Just finished
    baling the hay yesterday so the new groth grass will be coming along
    soon. 
     This year has been a very good year for small game also weather wise.
    We seem to have a good crop of quail,rabbits,squirrels and doves
    at this time if the non-human predators leave us some small game
    hunting should be better than last year.
     I know this is the wrong notesfile for this but the inshore and
    nearshore fishing is doing very well also.
     
     Before all you try to move to the land GOD blessed so richly I have to
    add that the insect and reptiles are also here in great abundance. If
    the skeeters or fire ants or sand gnats or assorted biting flies don't
    get you It might be because you are standing on a gator or rattler or 
    copperhead or cottonmouth or one of those pretty little ribbons (coral
    snake). This last paragraph added as per S.C. state law 123.1002 
    "SOLICITATION OF IMMIGRATION PROHIBITED FOR SNOW BIRDS" .
    
                                                   Darrell Seats @CHA

    Guys,
    
    This seems to be the week of sightings.  I buddy of mine in Indiana
    called me yesterday and said he lost a largemouth of enormous size.  He
    did get it on video and it was estimated at 9 1/2 pounds.  Since his
    brother caught an 8 1/2 out of the same pond last fall it has some
    validity.
    
    A buddy of mine from Ky called me about an hour ago foaming at the
    mouth over a deer he watched last night.  It turns out a friend of his	
    bought an 80acre farm last fall and they planted some wildlife stuff to
    draw the deer in.  They were out yesterday eve and my buddy spotted two
    deer about 400 yards out.  He said he managed to sneak within 30 yards
    and watched a massive buck for 5 minutes that should score in the
    160's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  This guy has killed some really nice deer
    in the past and I have never caught him telling one, he doesn't even
    exaggerate, so I believe him whole-heartidly.  I'm just wondering when
    it will be my turn to have a run-in with a brute?
    
    
    Wess

>I'm just wondering when it will be my turn to have a run-in with a brute?

 Just hope it's not like mine. I had my "run-in with a brute" the weekend
before the season opened. Of course we spooked the damn thing and it
got shot at by a blackpowder hunter (who missed it but scared it into the
next county.)

    Give us details, I need my "outdoor fix".
    
    
    Wess

    Guys,
    
    Ol' Buckmaster Bob just called and told me to tell everyone hello.
    
    Wess
    
    P.s.   He said "Only 49 days till bow season".

    An old hunting buddy of mine and I took some stuff up to the cabin this
    past weekend.  Rebuilt some beds and refilled the propane (we don't
    have power) to get ready for elk season.  Anyway, on the way back we went
    another way to do some plinkin' with the 22's.  We stopped to glass
    something on the hillside and, coincidentally, stopped right next to a
    fresh road kill.  A doe. 
    
    How anyone could drive that fast or be so oblivious on that old road is
    beyond me.  Anyway, as we glassed the hillside, twin fawns showed up
    and tried to rouse her.  It was very sad to watch their futile efforts.
    They were still in spots and probably didn't make it through the night.
     
    In a time when our mule deer population is down and deer hunting is really
    curtailed (Eastern Oregon), it seems such a waste.  Oh well, I've seen
    worse, but it still bothers me.  
    
    
    
    Ken

    
    Bob,
    
    I'm heading out in a few weeks when squirrel season opens here
    in MA. The skeeters are real bad where I go so I like to wait till
    Sept to head out. I hunt central MA too, so I guess I can expect
    to see fewer acorns this year too. Bummer. Gonna make things a little
    harder this year. Have you heard whether or not MA ok'd the use of 
    rifled slug barrels/chokes? I heard they were working on it.
    
    Walt

    Binger,
    	Actually, it might make it a little easier then last year.
    Last year there were too many acorns. It made it hard to pattern
    the deer. Food was everywhere. They didn't have to move very far
    do eat, bed and drink. I think this year, without as much mast, you 
    can find a hot food source. They also will be going out in the fields
    more so we can spot them. Last year they didn't have to. That's how 
    My Quantum Pal gets them 8*)
    
    					Butch

    
    Butch,
    
    The problem I may run into is that there are so many guys where I go
    that it's hard to  try a new area. There's usually someone there
    already.  I think that that is a big problem in MA. You can go scope
    out an area, pattern the deer and come opening day you got 50 guys
    wanting to get in your stand/blind. I learned that the hard way.
    What I do is look for an area that holds deer then I study my topo 
    maps and look for possible escape routes. Then I get there *very*
    early and wait. The guys coming in after me and then going out for coffee
    usually kick up a few deer. I got an 8pt last year and a spike the
    year before doing this. Both stands were within 20 yrds of each other. 
    
    As for your Quantum pal, I'll call my pal the game warden and tell
    him to stop by and say hi ;')
    
    
    Bob, can I come rabbit hunting up at your place? 8')
    
    Walt

    Howdy Folks,
    
     This will be my last scouting report this year for Southern Hunting as
    the season opened TODAY at dayclean. Saturday and Sunday saw approx 20
    deer while doing last day repairs to roads and stands one of which was
    a nice 8 pointer. Only one other had antlers a small 4 point. The rest
    of them were does and skippers.
    
     I had an early call today so I could not get there this morning but am
    ready to make up for it this afternoon. I will try to give a real live
    DEER HUNTING report soon.
    
                                                        Darrell Seats @CHA

    I went out to my spot last saturday and was disappointed at not seeing
    any sign of deer at all. I tried not to let it get to me figuring
    that deer scat is hard to see this time of year due to all the
    leaves falling and as for no rubs or scrapes well I'd just have to
    look around some more.

    So I went back yesterday. I always walk in on the same path and
    yesterday something new caught my eye. About 5 yards off the side
    of the path and only about 50 yards from my stand was a fresh rub.
    I thought YES fresh sign! So I looked around a bit more and found
    two nearby but they looked like they were last years. As I was
    looking around I took a quick breather and sat down. About 2 minutes
    later I hear a deer take off running, I never saw it because it's real thick
    but it was definitely a deer. So now I'm pysched (sp?). I shot an 8pt
    there last year and a spike the year before that,now I jump a deer
    and there's fresh buck sign. What could be better? Well I'm getting
    to that. I work my way over to my stand looking for more sign and
    nothing. I walk over to an alternate stand and sit down. I'm facing
    slightly west and there is a low spot with a dry creek bed then a
    larger oak covered hill . (My alt. stand is on a small hill)
    Soon, about 10 minutes later, a gray squirrel comes by so I take him,
    using my shotgun. I didn't rush over and grab him I just sat there
    another 15-20  minutes not moving and waiting for another squirrel. 
    So I get tired of waiting grab my stuff take 5 steps towards the downed 
    squirrel and CRASH, CRASH, SNAP, CRUNCH off goes another deer. I figure he
    had been resting in the sun on the side of the hill and knew where
    I was and wasn't concerned until I walked a few steps in his direction.
    He was so scared that when he got up and ran he ran into a rotted tree
    and knocked it over. That was the crunching noise I heard. So in
    a weeks time things have changed for the better. I just hope the bird
    hunters (no flame intended guys I hunt birds there too) don't spook
    these guys too bad and that a bow hunter don't get him unless it's
    me of course 8')
    
    Walt

    the SD west river season begins next sat. my brother-in-law has been 
    scouting for us in rough country NW of buffalo. says big mulies up
    there this year. we've 8 tags among the 4 of us to fill. 2 for 1 this
    year. can't wait.

Hi all,

I don't often have the opportunity to enter notes in this file, but what I 
experienced at lunch time today just about takes the cake -- get's the blood 
going for sure.  

I live and work in Nashua and was taking a lunchtime walk today to get some
clean air, clean head, etc -- as you will see a nice 8 pt buck had other things
on his mind  ;-)

I was about a mile from the building, on my way back from my walk along some
logging trails when I heard leaves off to my left.  The wind today was
changeable as I noticed the surveyor stake tape floating East, then West, all
around.  anyway -- off to my left I see a small doe coming right at me about
50yds out. She was coming out of a creek bed below me.   Then a nice 8 point
buck cuts her off.  She cuts left, he cuts left, she cuts right, he cuts right. 
They cut back and forth about 5 times, coming closer and closer to me each time.
 Amazing.  I felt like Marty Stouffer without the camera -- this NEVER happens
to me, especially when I have a gun in my hand!  I should mention this was in a
compact, posted area  --   #$%&!

  

The buck was panting, neck swollen, obviously wanting more than this 'foreplay'
stuff, and the doe had her tail tucked so close to her backside it almost
disappeared.  Playing hard to get, she wanted the big guy to work for it!  I was
stock still during this episode, when they got about 25 yds from me I believe
the doe noticed me and cut up the hill with the buck parallelling  her step for
step.  About 75 yds back up the hill they came to the trail I was on and the doe
stopped.  I'm sure the buck was thinking -- "a hah, finally, she LIKES me..." 
and he stopped. Then, his big head began doing the thinking (more likely his
nose...) and he turned his head and looked back to me, still standing there in
disbelief, -- wishing this was another time and another place. 

Again -- thinking between his ears now is survival instincts apparently overrode
his desire to make another conquest -- and he put it in overgear and bounded up
the ridge, with her right behind.  I'm standing there thinking -- What a turn of
events!"  One I hope is repeated this weekend when I go out.

I hope he did eventually get lucky to make more of the same, they sure were a
sight to behold, her giving him the cold shoulder and he insisting otherwise.
It's one thing to see it on the sportsmen shows, quite another to witness in
person from about 30 yds.   

Anyway, thought you might enjoy the story, and further it indicates the rut is
definitely "on".  I had always heard the peak of the rut  in this area is around
the 2nd week of November -- with my sighting proof that it is certainly on its
way if not now.  C'mon Friday!

Good luck to all.

Mike
    

    Mike,
    
    It sure does get you excited doesn't it!
    
    Good luck,
    Wess

    
    My dad and I went out this past saturday morning for the final
    scouting trip before the season opens. We walked up an old cart
    road an instead of going in on our normal path we cut in about
    75 yards early, got even with dad's stand and walked along nice and
    quiet. This was the area where I jumped a deer 2 weeks ago and wanted
    to check it out more thouroughly, am I glad we did. I found one scrape
    and called dad over, while looking at it I noticed  another one a
    few steps away. I told dad to go around to the left of the blow down 
    that was there and I'd go to right right and we'd meet at his stand
    which was 30 yards or so away. So I cut to the right and found another
    scrape, whistled to dad and gave him the thumbs up sign and continued
    on. I got to the stand waited a coupel minutes and no dad. i whistled
    for him and got no amswer so I figured great, he's either had a heart
    attack and I'll have to gut and drag him out or he's turned around
    in the thick stuff and I'll have to go find him. So I went looking for
    him and he had walked a little too deep to get around the blow down
    and a real nasty thicket that I forgot to mention and it took him a 
    little longer to get there. I should mention dad has only been out
    there twice with me so he's not real familair with the area. So we're
    at his stand and decide to walk down to where I had found the fresh
    rub last time I was there. I told dad I wanted to walk back up over the
    hill to find a place for me to sit on opening day and he wasn't very
    interested in doing that so I set my compass to get him back to the
    cart road if he got lost and he just kicked around a little and went
    back to the road to wait for me. So I found a nice spot near where I 
    shot the spike 2 years ago and cleared some shooting lanes then headed
    over to my "experiment".  when I first went out 4 weeks or so ago I
    decided to see if some info I had read was true. One said that a new
    buck willmove into an area where an old buck had been taken. ( I took
    an 8 pt there last year) and two was that human urine in a scrape
    could attract a buck. So everytime I went out, I went to this one scrape
    right next to a deer run and pee'd in it. Sure enough a deer had pawed
    up this one scrape and left the others alone. So I got on the deer run
    and walked below my dads stand, an area that I had just told him I
    walked through two weeks ago and saw no sign, when what do I find
    but another fresh scrape plus lots of droppings. This is the same run
    that the 8 pt cam down last year it is right in line with the rub I
    found and in line with the 3 scrapes I had found earlier. I went out to
    the road and found dad basking in the sunshine and relaxing so I gave
    him heck and told him I found the deer now he has to do the hard part
    on opening day (shoot, gut, drag). So dad's got a good spot and I hope
    that 8pt's daddy comes along so my dad can get him. He's had a long
    dry spell and take these long walk's for too many more years.
    So my record by week so far is:
    Week 1. No sign
    Week 2. 1 rub
    Week 3. Stay home
    Week 4. 5 scrapes, plus deer droppings
    Things do seem to be heating up.
    
    Walt
    got a great spot to sit opening day.

    I guess this is as good a place to put this as not.
    
    Oregon just passed the law that outlaws dogs for bear and cougar hunts. 
    It also stops bear hunting over bait.
    
    This was passed over the protests of Fish & Game, guides, etc. as being
    unecessary because of the healthy population of bear and cougars in the
    state.  Coincident to this a cougar has been spotted in downtown
    Eugene.  It already clawed a man who found it on his back porch and has
    been eluding the animal control officers every since.(3 days)  It is
    said to have a broken arrow stuck in its hip and they have found
    remains of cats and dogs it has eaten.  There have been a lot of
    sightings in the outer edge of town, but this is the first time in the
    city proper.  Time will tell if this is a trend, I tend to think it
    will only get worse - or better depending on your position on this
    manner.
    
    
    Ken

    
    
        well I just looked out my  office window and had to do a double
    take, there was a beautifull buck standing in the field across the road
    from the facility! he sure does know where its safe, at the present
    time he has walked into the woods lot and layed down! just watching the
    cars go by on I490.
    
        Last saturday I returned to my hunting spot in olean, got there
    before daylight after a 3 hr drive from home, sat till 10, snowed like 
    heck, got up and walked out over the ridge, ran on to a gy up over the 
    top of the ridge. he told me the neighbors boy got a nice 6 pt the
    first day of gun season.
      I said at 2 pm or 4:30, he looked at me funny and said it walked up
    to him at 2pm, oh did it have a real white rack? he said well yeah it
    was bone white, why did you see it?, I said well I called him in at 11
    am the first day and passed him up. well this guy extended his hand and
    said that thats from the 16yr old boy that got a nice buck his first
    year of hunting  thanks to you passing him up. sure made my day!
       Well I get back to my spot almost, there is a doe and 2 fawn tracks
    within 15 yrds of my tree, they had ran by, well 2 more steps and there 
    is a set of yote tracks! so I set back down, its about 11 am, I start 
    grunting & bleating, 12:30 I think boy I dont remember that funny shape
    in that hemlock tree about 150 yrds away, well i'll be that be a deer,
    it steps out a doe, pass, next one out doe,pass, well the next one is
    big, gotta be a buck, it steps out doe???? cant be,, it turns its head
    to look my way ahh huhh spikes, he is standing right out in the open he
    stood there for about 5 minutes, finally I figure you gotta get a clue
    there little guy you cant be standing around in the open woods the 5th
    day of gun season.
      so I put the crosshairs about 3 feet over his back, checked the
    backround there was a nice bank behind him, so I squeezed the trigger
    he did 3 circles and bolted right into the thick laurel and hemlocks 
    i waited 30 minutes then snuck over, checked to make sure I didnt hit
    him, tracked him for a little over 200 yrds and found no blood.
    hopefully I was sucessfull in makeing him smart enough to stay in the
    thick stuff so he can grow into a decent deer. 
    
        I hadnt seen the big buck again, I found out yesterday that someone 
    took a really bad shot at him and hit him in the hind quarters, a
    friend tracked him ~5 hours last wed. until he lost the blood trail he
    wasnt the one that shot him but he was trying to find him. I was and
    still am sick to my stomach that this deer was poorly hit, the shot
    wasnt presented very well but was taken anyways and a poor hit was the
    result which resulted in a lost TROPHY animal, this was the same buck I
    passed the shot on the first day because I didnt feel the shot that was
    presented was a high percentage one. 
       I will be back on my mountain next friday, my main objective is to
    try and find this buck, I know where the track was lost so I will start
    there, I know a good chance area that he snuck off too so hopefully he
    will be there.
    
                                                                  Lee
    

>      so I put the crosshairs about 3 feet over his back, checked the
>    backround there was a nice bank behind him, so I squeezed the trigger
 
	Did you mean 3 *inches* over his back?  Or do you have a gun with
horrible ballistics? ;-)

steve

    
    
      Steve,
    
        Nope 3 feet is right, I wanted to make sure I didnt hit him, my
    shotgun is sighted in at 100 yrds, at 150 it hits about 9" low at 200 
    its almost 2ft low, I was just trying to make him alittle wiser that he
    should be staying in the thick stuff instead of strolling out through
    the open woods. 
       if I wanted to hit him I would of then only aimed 3" over his back,
    but I am/well was hunting for that huge 8 pointer, maybe/hopefully that
    guy only hit that 8 pointer in the leg, if he expired unfound it would
    be a terrible loss. 
       there are still several bucks in the area, if I cant locate the 8
    pointer I may take one of the other bucks next week since it will be
    the last week of the season.
    
                                                            Lee
    

Lee,

I thought I remembered reading somewhere that "once a spike, always a spike".
Its a genetic thing, not how old the deer is.  Of course if this is true, I
would imagine that his spikes would be larger next year.

/marc

    
    
       Marc,
    
       I have heard all sorts of tales about antler growth, to me most of
    the reports about antler growth from labs/wildlife refuge's where the
    animals are fed and pen kept/even many acres fenced in, I have a hard 
    time believing the stories of antler growth, since they feed the
    animals a basically balanced diet, this isnt what happens in the wild.
    
    
       There are 2 things that are needed for good antler growth, genetics,
    and nutrients of the food available., this deer I saw was more than
    likely 1.5 yrs old, the spikes showed some real potential, nice curve
    and kinda like shovel horns (more flat than round), you dont see many
    spikes over 1.5 yr old, unless of course your in a real poor food area
    like the quabin area.
    
       the area I hunt is mountainous, there isnt any corn/oats/bean fields 
    for miles, but the racks are nice, also as I stated before there
    is/well was very little hunting presure there because of the terain,
    this also helps greatly, most of the nice mature bucks are 3.5-5.5 yrs
    old, a far cry different than it is in Pa where bucks rarely make the
    age of 3.5 yrs. this is caused by the hunting presure of Pa.
      I guess the deer in the area I hunt know where to find the high
    protien food, there are beechnut trees everywhere, good amounts of oak
    trees and large amounts of small brush for brouse, and across the road
    from me is some old logged out area's that are really thick.
      
       But to say that once a spike always a spike seems far fetched to me
    although I am not saying impossible, it just seems unlikely that this
    would happen unless he is really genetically inferior.
    
                                                              Lee
    
     
    

Its an interesting discussion.  I remember reading an article on why you
should shoot a spike elk.  Their basic reason was to inhibit the spike from
spreading his genes to other animals through breeding.  I have both shot and
passed up spike whitetails, but I wasn't thinking of genetics at the time.
I usually hunt for meat first and if succesfull, hunt for a nice rack with my
second tag.

/marc

    
     Well I would agree to the old hearsay of shoot all the poor spikes so 
    as they cant spread them thar bad gene's... my comment has always been
    that if they aint gone by mid november guess what? it doesnt matter
    since for most parts of the north east the first prime rut is over and
    they already have "spread their gene's).. so FWIW if that is the
    objective they better shoot them prior to mid october. 
    
         As I told my hunting buddy, I have 3 in the freezer, room for 1
    more, if I am gonna shoot one I want a nice one, but since the season
    ends here next tuesday and I will be in Pa takeing my little nephew doe
    hunting friday will be it for me, there is a possibility that I may
    take on of the other bucks if its late in the day. if not maybe they
    will grow bigger racks for next year.
    
                                                           Lee
    

    
    
      After getting to camp friday night and takeing care of my deer my
    stepdad and I laid out the plans for the last day of the pennsy buck 
    season.
      I was in the woods at 6:30, I made the treck across the big corn
    field above the river hill, got in the woods about 30yrds, and PUUTTTTT
    oh oh, look up and there's a whole flock of turkeys, they jump outa the
    trees and glide down onto the lower bench. I move on out the tram road
    reclean my favorite ground stand, settle in for the wait for daylight
    the turkeys down below me are yelping, putting, whineing up a storm,
    then to my amasment a gobbler cuts loose and he gobbled for the better
    part of a half hour, I never heard one gobbleing like that this late in
    the year.
      I was so intent on watching/listening to the turkeys that I never saw
    the first deer till it was right out in the open about 60 yrds in front
    of me, a quick look through the scope reveals no horns, she looks back
    next one through was also a doe she looks back next one through was
    also a doe, she didnt look back they walk up the ridge and enter the
    field, for about 3 minutes then they ran back in the woods by me, I
    figure that someoone stopped on the road to scope them and spooked
    them.
      Pat and I sat till 10 am. then he sat while I put on some drives, saw
    alot of does, even more darn turkeys, and 2 bears (adults), it poured
    rain, but we had a blast anyways.
    
        Now for the good part of the week, monday finally arrived, the
    first day of doe, my nephew and his dad went to the spot that we had 
    picked out for him, I started walking at 6:45 am, just to move deer, by
    8:30 am I imaginarally shot 8 deer that I walked up on, (doe tags
    already filled= me had no gun :-( ) I saw 72 turkeys! finally got
    around the mountain where justin (nephew) was, put 2 deer out, I
    hollared here they come get ready well there was a young guy between 
    me and justin and he knocked down one of the deer, justin missed his
    on the run, he was bummin big time, so I give him a good ole fashion 
    pep talk and his spirits picked up.
      I left them there and went up and drove  up to the head of the hollow
    and walked the hollow down to where my stepdad was, pushed 4 deer to
    him, boom, boom, 1 tag filled, dragged that deer up the mountain 2 hrs
    later he headed for the house to hang it up.
      we stopped at the our old school house the game warden was there I 
    dont know what that one guy did but minga the warden handed him a whole 
    fist full of citations! we left came up to the house and there was a
    car pulled off the road right below the house with a BIG (around) guy 
    leaning over a doe field dressing her within 20 yrds of the road. well
    I saw the warden come up the road so I flagged him down and asked if he 
    saw them guys with the deer right there, he said no, I said well its
    layin within the limit a person has to be FROM the road to shoot so
    they had to shoot it right from the car! he left and they were BAGGED!
    
       the afternoon we had one deer coming in but had someone screw it up
    for us, I tld justin that I would walk or crawl if I had too but before
    5pm wed. he would have a doe on the pole! I pushed the hill towards pat
    at 2 pm,,,booooom, pats done hunting, that deer took us almost 3 hrs to
    get out. justin saw one more but couldnt get a shot.
       we all retired sore, tired, and much aprehention for tuesday, pat
    and I departed for the area justin would be, the first drive past put
    out a bear cub right by me, I mean I coulda reached out and grabbed it
    the moma wasnt seen. no deer though, the second drive things started
    happening, as soon as we stepped into the woods the deer took off but 
    they ran higher on the ridge so justin didnt see them. we regrouped I 
    said well guys we got 2 choices, leave justin here, drive from
    conneration to here first then go across the road on the river hill or 
    do the hill first. pat and I decided that the conneration drive would
    be an easy one so lets do the hardest one first.
      We took justin and jeff to the tram road and I said you walk this
    road till ya get to the orange shale once there stay there, and be
    ready since nobody in their right mind would hunt here we are gonna
    get into the deer big time, also watch the lower bench as you go down
    the road I guarentee you will catch some deer on that bench. 
      well we drove the hill to them and I put out 5 deer but they ran the
    high side again, man we needed another gunner bad! well when I got to
    justin the look in his eyes said it all, they caught 12 deer on the
    bench but couldnt get off a shot, I looked at pat and said well if
    youll take the high road I will go around on the ledges and tree tops
    we will drive them around the hill right to the old sarah furnace dump
    justin can wait there for them. all agreed to the plan, time check
    revealed 9:45, we were back on the ridge after placeing justin at 10:15
    and the drive started.
      this  area is horendous to hunt the hills are almost straight up and
    straight down with rock cliffs, tree tops so thick you cant walk
    through and gullies/ravines big enough to hide most houses in. but this
    is where the deer go to get away from all but the craziest of hunters.
    as we move out along the hill the farther I went the more I questioned 
    my sanity, finally I got to one rock face that the only way to continue 
    was across the face of it or at least a 1/2 hr interuption of the drive
    so I moved as high to the next cliff as I could get and very slowly
    started across, was about 10 feet from the trees on the other side when
    the next thing I knew I was rapidly sliding towards the edge of the
    next cliff and that was the last one to the river and there wasnt any
    more hill to slide down just a free fall of about 40 feet.
    
      Many things crossed my mind as I was sliding, frantically looking for 
    anything to grab ahold of or catch with my foot, about 10 feet from the 
    edge I got my foot against a rock and got stopped, very carefully I
    moved the rest of the way to the trees on the side. Pat was standing
    there on the cliff above me, he say's what the @#%% are you doin, I as
    calmly as possible and with a stone straight face said trailing a deer!
    
      he said hey a whole herd just moved out ahead of you, I crawled up
    the hill to where he was, hey were at the old dump right? pat said ya
    well where the heck is justin and jeff? well maybe they moved around
    the hill to get a better view of the side hill.......boooooom as the 
    sound echo's throough the hills I look at pat he smiles, that sounded 
    like a 243 didnt it, we moved on out around the hill and there was 
    probably the happiest 15 yr old in all of pennsy on 12/13! and for good
    reason, the doe he shot was bigger bodywise than that 170+ buck I got
    last year!
       he hit her right behind the head, dropped in her tracks, he had his
    first on his own field dressing job, along with a constant ribbing on 
    how HE was gonna get HIS deer out of there by HIMSELF. well that tops
    the worste of any drag we ever had, 4 guys 100yrds 2.5 hrs! and there 
    was 4 ropes tied on her so we each had a rope. we woud crawl up the
    hill dig our feet in inch by inch get her up to our feet, crawl up the
    hill again and do it all over again.
       when we finally got to the truck and loaded her in justin said well
    guys I had enough deer hunting for the day. after luch was the pictures 
    and skinning process. I packed up my stuff and headed home totally
    wooped but with a great successfull feeling about the whole trip! 4
    deer in 4 days of hunting and we all worked together to get my nephew
    his second deer in as many years.
    
    
                                                                  Lee
     

    
    
       Well this isnt really a scouting report but some of that was being
    taken in during our hunt yesterday too. with the start of the second
    small game season in Pa we embarked on a grouse hunt, we had to wait
    till almost 9am since the fog was so thick you couldnt see 30 feet
    (literally).
    
        This was  the first actual grouse hunt in prime grouse area that my
    2 labs were gonna be in on, MO is a blcak lab 20 months old, JO is a
    yellow lab he just turned 1 yr on saturday. these guys have done really
    well during training with dummies (mostly me) but they just didnt have
    the experience of a grouse flushing under their nose's. the first 5 or
    6 birds they flushed got away unscathed, heard but not seen, the are we
    were in was very dense pines.
     
        We moved across the power lines where there is a huge area of
    grapevines/briars/brush which equates to prime grouse cover and where 
    the dogd can basically see whats going on, mo flushed the first bird
    within a few feet of entering the entanglemnet billy droped it with a
    good shot, mo found it right away, and man what a feeling seeing that 
    dog with that grouse in his mouth just as proud as a peacock! moveing 
    along mo & jo flushed another grouse, billy missed twice.
       We advanced about 50 yrds and another grouse flushed billy connects 
    again mo and jo are still working the same spot, well Mo is working and
    Jo is watching (learning I guess) when all of a sudden a grouse flushes 
    right under mo's face, the only shot I had was at 60 yrds, so another
    one makes it by, mo retrieved the other downed bird. by now I am
    extremely happy with the dogs work, jo still isnt sure about the whole 
    scenario though.
       Anyways we cross over the back road and into another area, flush 5
    more birds but no shots, finally as we get to a spot where some thick
    pines border an old overgrown field, jo is right in front of me mo is
    in the pines jo is working pretty good he works up to a pine tree and 
    stuffs his head into the pine broughs and a grouse explodes from
    beneath the limbs, it flys out and banks to the left, the trusty old 12
    is to my shoulder swing through squeeze the triger, and watch the bird
    tumbles, jo is on it in a flash.
       Jo now knows what is going on, billy said that he could see jo the
    whole time and jo watched the whole thing. I think with some more work 
    they are gonna work out to be a good upland game duo. we got to have a
    great test done yesterday too, we walked up on a bedded doe it went out
    about 10 yrds in front of the dogs and they never even showed an
    interest in it. Mo also spit up a flock of turkeys, after he split them 
    up he looked at billy and I like man did you see the size of them
    thunder chickens! you fools can chase them little ones I like them
    monster ones.
     
        Well the boys get a couple days rest then its back for more grouse
    hunting, they each have a glass mug which will hold 1 feather from each
    bird that is harvested with their help.
    
    
                                                   Lee
    

    Hey Lee,
    
      Are you sure your still working for Digital?  With all these salmon,
    deer and small game stories, it sounds like you went to work for
    Sports Afield magazine.  Looking forward to the ice fishin stories  :*)
    Oh ya, and if you ever get a divorce, ship the old lady back east to
    me.  I get out less than half time that you do, hahahaha.
    
    Gone fishin
    Gaff

    
    
      Gaff,
    
       Well she wasnt a very happy camper last saturday, she went on one
    last christmas shopping spree with her sister, needless to say I was
    gone as soon as she was outa sight.
       I took the dogs out to the river hills to see if we could find any
    grouse, and to check out the deer sign since the doe season, well once
    I get into the woods I loose complete track of time, and it was almost 
    dark by the time the pups and I got back and she was P.O'ed big time
    give me the 'ole christmas eve and ya cant go shopping with me speal.
      oh well at least the dog and me had a good time, I must say that this
    year I got to spend alot of time in the woods, we went to a 4 day work
    week here to provide better coverage, and that has given me alot of
    extra time away from work to be able to spend it in the woods which I
    really enjoy alot :-).
    
       well I better get my butt in gear, gotta get everything done today
    since Im outa here today till next week, I cant wait till tomorrow, we 
    will be on the pine ridge at daylight to embark on hopefully a repeat 
    grouse hunt like the other days hunt, maybe it would be better to have 
    a few bad days, if not the temptation to stay might be too strong.
    
                                                      Lee