Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    Earl,
    
    The Leupold scope was a 3 X 9 X50, not a 3x9x8.
    
    Bob
    

    Get the A-bolt.  The detachable magazine is worth the extra bucks, 
    not to mention the low throw bolt and having the safety where it is
    supposed to be, under your thumb!
    
    Jeff  (Who has a A-bolt .270)

 First thing I'd do would be to get a .280. :-)

    Earl,
     What do you want ? I assume your hunting is a lot like mine some very
    long shots possible but mostly less than 200 yds. I don't think I would
    consider the A-BOLT for one reason only that would be accuracy. I just
    have not seen that many accurate A-BOLTS. For a 400 yds shot please use
    a rifle at least capable of 1 MOA. I know I need all the help I can
    get. A rifle capable of only 2 MOA already has a 4 inch + or - miss at
    400 yds. So buy the most accurate rifle you like.
     I use a Rem 700 in .280 of course with a 2-8 Leupold and it
    works real well at least for me. If you don't handload stick with the
    270. Factory ammo has a much wider selection over the 280.
    
                                             Remember you asked for it.
    
                                                         DArrell 
     

    
    I've got them both and for the extra money I would reccomend the 
    A-Bolt both the advantages as Jeff said, removable clip, 45 degree
    bolt, and a better safe location. 
    
    As far as Leupold goes you can't go wrong and are worth the money!
    The 3x9 comes in a compact version (lightweight) with you would need
    an extended ring for the long action, or the standard length in 40mm
    or 50mm. Not to make matters worse look at the Vari X-II vs. the
    Vari X-III there is a big difference in light gathering quality when
    the "Witching Hour" takes effect.
    
    270 vs. 280 will be debated forever it seems. There was just a recent
    article in one of the gun rags on this again. If your looking for a
    cartridge that is readily available without going to a shop that
    carries a wide variety of ammo then stay with the 270. But if your
    into hand loading and want to play around then the 280 would be the
    ticket.
    
    Now concerning rings and bases the prices seem a little high. I would
    go with Millett, there are a strong system and hollowed out to try and
    take added weight off.
    
    All these suggestions are made from experience and IMHO ........
    
    
                                                   Good Luck,
    
                                                      Guy
     

    Not to open a rathole or anything but I believe the A-Bolt is a 60
    degree lift instyead of 45. It is still less than most which I believe
    is around 70-75 degree lift. I think Weatherby is the least at 55
    degree bolt lift. As far as caliber that is personal preference. I have
    never owned an A-Bolt but do know a few that do. They seem to like it.
    If it were me I would lean to the Winchester M-70 but in Stainless
    Steel and composite stock. IMHO, seems to be better than the A-Bolt
    Stainless Stalker. Someday I'll own a stainless M-70 in 30-06 which is
    my personal prefence. I know how tough it is when a decision is to be
    made concerning "toys". It has to be one of the toughest decisions
    knwon to man.     ;^)
    							Bret

    Keep those replies coming in guys.  I do appreciate them.  I am leaning
    towards the Winchester but still have not made my final decision.  I
    may go ahead a get the one with the scope.
    
    Earl

    With 75 days away until firearm season, you should make a decision
    soon, as the firing ranges will be jam packed with the Georgia army of
    deer hunters.  I too, need to fire my rifle to verify its sights prior
    to hunting season.
    
    Went to deer land this weekend.  it was killer.
    
    Bob
    

    Earl,
    
    My money is on the winchester in .270.  But you guys will probably be
    tagged out by the 2nd week of bow season anyway, Now that's a Keystone
    commercial, Wouldn't that be great!
    
    Bob,
    
    I found your ladder, check note 1279.
    
    Good luck
    Wess

in .270 WIN... can't beat it...  i'll assume you plan on keeping it for a 
looooong time, so why not pay the extra $$$ now...  

fra

    Current tally of replies.
    
    2 for Browning Stainless Stalker
    4 for Winchester Model 70
    1 for 280
    1 for Remmington 280
    
    Looks like Winchester is going to win.  Went by gun store at lunch and
    talked to dealer about scope.  It is a Vari X II, 269.00 in Gander
    Mountain.  Total package is 629.00, includes gun, base mount, rings,
    and scope.  ALL CAMOFLAUGE.
    
    Keep those comments coming in.
    
    Earl
    

 re: winning

 Popularity is nice and everything, but I'll tell you that if I were looking
for a gun, I'd buy the best gun even if only one person recommended it and
100 recommended something else.

    Based on the logic in .11, can we assume you'ld vote for Clinton?
    
    Jeff
    
    8*)

    Ahhhhh! But doesn't made in America count for anything any more?
    Besides I think the Winchester is the better gun not the Browning. But
    then I already replied to this before. IMHO, I look for American made
    first and foremost and then when all else fails I will look elsewhere.
    I do own a BSA but it's made in England, I would buy a nice European
    before I'll buy a Japanese made rifle.         ;^)
    							Bret

    No Jeff. I would not.
    
    Earl

    I didn't think so, just felt like grind'n someone!
    
    Re: "The Great Debate"
    
     Get which ever gun feels most natural to you.  Accuracy wise, there
    won't be much, if any, difference.  I really like the detachable clip
    on the A-bolt.  That was a big factor for me, along with the safety.
    The 60' bolt also is nice because it allows you to mount your scope
    closer to where your eye naturally looks.  This means that you get
    on target faster.  In the end, your the only one who can judge which gun 
    is right for you .
    
Jeff

for an additional $40-50 over the Winchester, you get a composite stock, with
a totally stainless rifle (barrel and action) which will be impervious to 
rust, something I would think you guys down in Georgia would be concerned about.
Isn't it always humid and wet down there???

all this, besides the most obvious things, like the short bolt throw the detach-
able magazine, and the nice fit/finish.  as far as the 400 yard accuracy issue,
how often/realistic is this really?  is there areas where this is actually 
possible down there... I have this vision in my head of a jungle down there...

i'd spen the extra cash and get  the Browning... you can't go wrong

IMHO,  good luck on your decision,

Fra

    re .15
    Unless I'm mistaken, that Weatherby is a Vanguard and shoots a standard
    30-06 shell.  No better ballistics than any other 06.
    
    
    Ken

    Earl,
    
    Opinions are like !@#holes, everyone has one.  Bottom line is this,
    pick the gun that YOU like.  Pick the gun that feels good to YOU.  Pick
    the gun that will accomodate YOUR hunting needs.
    
    I have been with you through all this, and as a spectator, YOUR smile
    is biggest with the full cammo'd winchester.  Go with YOUR heart Luke!
    
    bob 38.5 days

    This is some good input.
    
    The Winchester will not rust since the barrel is painted camo finish
    and even if it were a blued barrel it still wouldn't rust since I take
    good care of my gun.  My 742, which I had for 14 years, still looked
    brand new.  Ask Bob Harris.
    
    The Winchester has a free floating barrel and the Browning is beaded,
    not glass beaded since it is a composite stock also.  They both feel
    good.  One difference I did notice is the line on the Browing is flater
    when looking down the barrel and the Winchester is lower than the line
    of sight.  This is called ???????? 
    
    Where I hunt there are alot of stand locations with possible shots of
    100-500 yds.  The field where my father-in-law and brother-in-law both
    missed a 140 class deer last year will offer a shot up to 1000 yds if
    you got the _____ to take it.  We hunt alot of peanut fields along with
    wooded areas also.  
    
    In reference to the stainless barrel, one drawback is that stainless
    holds heat longer.  This probably would not be a factor in accuracy
    except at the range since I only take one shot when I kill my deer.
    
    Earl

                     <<< Note 1280.22 by ODIXIE::SHADDIX >>>
                     -< ?????Winchester?????Browning???? >-

    
    In reference to the stainless barrel, one drawback is that stainless
    holds heat longer.  This probably would not be a factor in accuracy
    except at the range since I only take one shot when I kill my deer.
    
    Earl



	Re: Stainless. It resist rust, but proper care is still needed as
	    it tends to pit. As for the heat factor, even at the range
	    there should be a cool down time frames between each shot of
	    your five shot grouping/sightin sets.  

	Re: 1,000 yard shots. Good reason to convince the wife that you
	    need a 1,000 + rifle ( .50 ). What's 3 - 5 grand when it
	    comes to enjoying your favorite sport :-)

	Red

last opinion from me for a while...  good luck on your choice.

regarding 1000 yard shots...  ah hell, why stir up a hornets nest... me, i'll try
to get a little closer, makes for a more challenging hunt.  I prefer to be in the
same time zone as the deer I shoot, your mileage may vary.

Fra

    Only after their boiled and seasoned.  These are southern deer, now.  I
    don't know if they eat the peanuts, or the vegetation from the peanut
    plant.  I know they have a grub fest on the thousand + acres of corn
    though.
    
    I love deer hunting.  
    
    Back to the firearm issue at hand.  Get the winchester, Earl.
    
    bob
    

    The deer eat the leaves from the peanut plant.  I'm sure they eat a few
    of the peanuts themselves but not on a regular bases.
    
    Earl

    Went by the gun store at lunch and put another 200.00 down on the
    Winchester.  Total on the gun, tax included, was 666.74.  I've put
    500.00 down so far.  My wife told me she would buy me a scope for my
    birthday so I will let her put up the other 166.74.  Not a bad price to
    pay for the Vari-x II.  It sells for about 280.00.  I will take
    possesion by the 30th of Sept.  That will give me 22 days to zero in.  
    
    Read article in Rifleman about new Winchester model 70 DBM.  It has a
    detachable clip like the Browning.  
    
    42 days til gun opener.
    
    Earl

    There are a number of European gun makes that are in the same league or
    better then the Japanese made Brownings and Weatherbys. 
    
    SAKO, Steyr-Manlicher, Tikka etc, even the Czechs have a fine line of
    very price competetive BRNO make firearms.
    
    Just another opinion.
    
    Les

    Took possesion yesterday.  How sweet it is.  Going to the range to
    sight it in Sat.
    
    29 Days til gun season. 
    
    Earl