Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

	Who deer was it?  Yours, no doubt in my mind.

	What to do?  Give them an ear full and walk away.  It is too bad
	you could not find a game warden, but then it was their word against 
	yours.

	These slob 'hunters' seem to have no limts.

	Sorry,
	Jim

    
    
    What a bummer. You got to wonder what would make a person do that.
    Did he need the meat that bad? Did he need to be able to say "I shot
    an 8 pointer"? I have a feeling he needed to do something to make him
    feel like a hunter or a sportsman, too bad it made him look like
    something the moderator would set hide this not for if I put it in.
    Unfortunetly a nitwit like that would never know what he really is.
    
                                   Walt

                There isn't a thing that a warden could have done
    for you.  The same thing happened to me last year.  I rattled
    in a spike, shot him with a muzzleloader.  He got up and went
    over this little rise and I hear, BOOM!  Sure enough, I follow
    my blood trail to the deer, and there is another hunter, just
    as happy as could be.  My shot was fatal and the deer would
    have died but he finished it off.  Legally, the deer is his.
    Ethically, now that's another question.  The spike had an eight
    inch spike on one side and a four on the other, dressed at
    151 lbs.
             Luckily for me, I shot a button buck the next day at
    the same spot.  Like a few others said, it's better to just
    speak your peace and walk away. 
    
                 Bob

    Sounds like you ran into five assholes, certainly not "hunters".
    Hunters have ethics.  Assholes have opinions.  Not much to do 
    except put your life on the line when dealing with assholes.
    Your life is worth more.  Hopefully they'll get what they 
    deserve some day.
    
    You did the right think getting out of the situation with
    your health.
    
    Good luck in future hunts.
    
    
    Tom

    This is one of the many reasons I no longer hunt on public land in
    populated areas, particularly in NH.  I have been fortunate enough to 
    have permission to hunt on private property that borders a large private 
    wooded area.  We rarely see other hunters.
    
    My 2 buddies and I have taken 4 deer from this lot in 2 years.
    
    In northern Maine, we rarely, if ever see other hunters.
    
    Mark.

    Nothing you can or could have done, but I would suggest the following. 
    When I get cut off by a bad driver, rather than swearing and going into
    a rage which only serves to get me riled up, I just make the biggest
    smile I can and wave at the jerk.  I don't lose my cool and it conveys
    the message that I recognize him or her for the idiot driver they are.
    
    In your situation, what if after it was determined that your deer was
    obviously not going to be given back, you had just smiled and said
    something like, "With every bite of that tasty venison and every time
    you look at those antlers, I want you to remember me and who really
    shot the deer and who was the true hunter."  And then just smile and
    walk away.  I guarantee he'd never forget you or his own stupidity and
    neither would his buddies.  Tough to do, but could be very
    self-satisfying.

Hello,

	Unfortunately there is nothing you or a warden could have done. How
much time was involved with you getting your backpack and the deer getting up?
It is unfortuate but it is part your fault for not making sure the deer was
dead. You were within 20 yrds shot and knocked it down. Then you didn't make
sure it was dead. On opening day with lots of hunters in the woods that is a
no no. You should have approached the deer right away, noticed it was still
alive and shot it again. Once you make sure the deer was dead you should have
gotten your backpack. Heck, it doesn't even matter if it was opening day or
not, you didn't make sure it was dead. If the other hunter did hit it in the
vitals instead of breaking off an antler. Would you have still said it was
your deer? 
	Just as a side note, I've had friends of mine shoot and break off
antlers and have the deer drop in its tracks. When they approached the deer
it jumped up and started to run again. Breaking off antlers will knock a deer
out unconsious for a little while. You said that the other hunter cut its
throat. Do you know why he cut the deer's throat? Did he purhaps slit its
throat because it was still alive? If he slit its throat because it was
still alive then it is definitely his deer. Even if it would have died from
your shot. Basically he made sure the deer was dead and you didn't. So in
my opinion it is his deer.

Ron

 It was your deer. The guy and his douchebag buddies aren't hunters.

 With my acid tongue I'm sure I would have found a few choice words. And I 
would have left him with a thought like "Wow- awesome hunter you are, your
season is over and you didn't even shoot a deer. Why doncha just wait
by someone's car and steal it there?"

 I really hate people like that. If I ever get a deer on public land, I'm 
definitely going to get to the deer ASAP and tag it AND mark it in some way
(ie the dime inder the skin trick or business card in the mouth trick.)

 It's really unfortante that some wannabee hunters can live with themselves
after stealing someone else's deer. Ick!

    re.8 After I shot the deer and it went down, I turned around to pick
    up my pack. I was heading towards the deer and it got up. I couldn't
    get another shot off. I watched it go down again. When the deer was
    down the other hunter took a shot at it and blew one side off the
    antler off. The deer was kicking and he sliced the throat. Then he
    calls all his buddies and they start gutting the deer out. He never
    hit it. There was only one bullet hole and blood trail from where I 
    hit it. The guys a SLOB. I shot him a nice 8 pointer. PERIOD.
    
          Barry

Barry,

	I'm not saying that you didn't hit it. I missed your part about him
shooting after it was down. That is not being a hunter, so we won't even
call him that anymore. Thus, I change my point and it was your deer. If the
deer was running and he shot and the deer then went down. Even though he
only broke an antler off, I would say it was his. Since the deer was down
when he shot, it should have been yours.

/Ron

    
    First let me say that I believe that the deer is yours, morally if not
    legally, but there was nothing you could have done to convince the
    idiot of this.
    
    Now, as .8 pointed out, the first thing you should have done was go
    to the animal. You sound as if you went to it fairly quickly, but
    you should approach it expecting it to get up, not with your
    backpack in your hand, in this way you may have been able to get off
    a second shot.
    
    The other idiot is in no way a hunter and the deer should be yours. 
    Isn't there something in this file about this subject, and the guys 
    involved went to court over it. The judge decided that the rightfull
    owner is the one who makes posession imminent (sp?). In your case you
    did this, you killed the deer, the deer just wasn't smart enough to
    play by the rules and fall down and die on the spot. THe point is that
    you took a killing shot that any good hunter would take, and the deer
    was dead on its feet.  It is your deer, ethically if not legally.
    
    --Bob
    

    re .12 the note you refer to is 25.104, about a case in Wisconsin.
    
    Sounds like this might be a good idea for we hunters to pursue
    in our state legislatures.

    
    
    re .0
    
    I sympathize with you...what an awful set of circumstances to go
    through.  My brother had a similar thing happen, where the guy who
    claimed the deer had taken 20 bucks, this would have been my brother's
    first...it takes all kinds in this world.
    
    I read an article that may be of interest to you, I'll see if I can dig
    it up, I'll send you a copy if I can find it.  It was in last year's
    Deer and Deer Hunting, probably OCT/NOV issue.  The title was "One Shot
    Kill".  No doubt yours was a classic one shot kill, but the animal was
    able to get up.  In this article the author talks about dropping a deer
    in its tracks, it gives the anatomy etc. to prove his method.  I used
    the method last year myself, and it worked for me.
    
    The method talks about shooting for the animals shoulder, right in the
    middle of the shoulder bone.  It seems the spine, and several arteries,
    go through this area, the main concern in high hunter areas, is to drop
    the animal in its tracks.  The only way to do this is to sever the
    nerve centers from the brain.  As anyone can atest, a spine shot will 
    drop a deer like a bad habit...crippling the animal.  The bullet placed
    in the shoulder bone severs the nerve core in the spinal column,
    because the spine goes directly between the shoulders.  It also will
    provide lots of blood loss because of the main arteries of the heart
    passing right through the area.  The author admits a second shot is
    sometimes necessary for quick death, especially if you're off target 
    slightly, but it's always effective.  And the margin for error is good
    as compared to other bullet placement methods.  I used this to drop a 
    spike in its tracks last year, I was off about 2 inches to the left, and hit
    the base of the deers neck, blowing vertebra out the bullet exit hole,
    this deer crumpled on the spot.  There was another hunter, not known
    to me at the time of the shooting, about 200 yards in the direction
    the deer was going when I shot it (it was moving when I shot it), so
    I may have avoided a situation like yours by dropping that deer.  After
    the deer went down however I already had another round chambered and
    the crosshairs were on that deers back for a minute of so before I even
    moved from my stand.  Just in case.
    
    Of the 3 deer I've shot, 1 was lung hit - it ran a few yards, 1 was
    gut shot it was lost by me, and found by someone else - and 1 was
    spine (nerve shot) and it dropped, and wasn't getting up.  I've talked
    to many people that heart shoot deer, and they say they run like crazy.
    Another guy I know head shoots, and they drop in there tracks...bullet
    placement can mean the difference between hitting a deer and bringing
    it home, unfortunately.
    
    If you get up the nerve to go out again...good luck.
    
    Kevin

    
    
       Barry I know what you are going through, almost the same thing
    happened to me 2 years ago, the only thing there was the 2 guys DID NOT
    even fire a shot the deer crossed the logging road in front of them 
    and they saw the blood and got in front of me, I was on posted land and
    NOBODY else should of been there!
    
        When I got to where the deer was these 2 guys were dragging it out 
    wholesale! We exchanged words and they ended up with the deer, well
    they got the bad end of the stick! I found out that the 2 people were 
    caught and prosacuted (sp) by fish and game for theft of a game animal.
    and they also had some explaining to do to the land owner also I am
    sure.
    
        Since this incedent if I happen to be on public land I dont fool 
    around I shoot for the head, if you miss its a clean miss if you hit
    the deer it will drop in its tracks! I finished off an 8 pointer one of 
    the kids in my group had hit, 1 shot to the head and everything was
    over., he wanted me to tag it and I said no way the only reason I shot 
    the deer was because I know there are guys on the other side of this
    field and if the deer made it over there you wouldnt get it! 
      I will tell you that it doesnt make for good pictures but it does the 
    job well.
    
                                                     Lee
    

    
    	It is always wise to finish your deer with a slug to the lower
    	neck near the spine.  I can garantee you it won't run away then.
    	If this story makes you feel any better here goes.
    
    	Hunter shoots deer.  Fills out the tag and attaches it to the
    	deer.  Deer jumps up and runs away.  Hunter hears another shot
    	about 100 yards away.  Hunter runs to that spot.  Another hunter
    	is filling out his tag.  First hunter says.  What are you doing
    	thats my deer.  Second hunter says, what do you mean I just
    	shot this deer.  First hunter says, but its got my tag on it.
    	Second hunter says anyone who can tag a live deer I do not want
    	to mess with.  First hunter gutted the deer and hauled it away.
    
    	Perhaps we all should at least have our names already on the deer tag.
    	Get it on the deer right away and then complete filling it out.
    	Then there can be no arguements.  To late now.  Sorry to hear
    	about this incident.  It spoils it for good hunters.
    
        			Dave

    Boy, what kind of hunters do they have up in the northern states. 
    Personally, I used to hunt public land down here in Georgia, but I
    didn't like it when the sun came up and all saw countless orange vested
    hunters hunting the same ridge.  UNSAFE!!  I have the honor of hunting
    private land, and that is the only way to do it.  Public land you get
    hunters, and assholes.  Unfortunately, it sounds like the assholes
    prevail in this situation.
    
    Bottom line, he got the deer, you didn't.  It sounds like the deer was
    now a 7 pointer after he shot it.  what the hell is somebody shooting
    at antlers anyway for?
    
    Solution:  Go find some private land to hunt.  Stay out of public
    areas, for they attract assholes as well as hunters.  Join a hunting
    club if possible.  It sounds like it might be worth the money.  Just
    think, you could have had a nice 8 pointer on the wall, instead you got
    note 1095.  So sorry.
    
    Just out of curiosity, it sounds like you guys have a real time of it
    hunting up north, is it really dog eat dog and have to fight for your
    harvest?  I read comments like have your tags pre filled out, and rush
    and put it on the deer.  That is not hunting enjoyment.  I never see
    people in the woods now a days hunting the private land.  Public land
    hunting sucks!  How hard is it to find private land up north?  I would
    like to understand your situation a little bit more.  How long is your
    season.  Ours started at the end of september, and runs through the end
    of the year.  Of course that is split up with bow/firearm.  But the
    point is that we have alot of time.  Well, I won't get off on a
    tangent.  I sincerely wish you the best of luck in future hunts, and
    hope you don't run into slobs like that again.
    
    good huntin,
    bob
    

    
    re .17
    
    The Mass season is basically a week long, the majority of the hunting
    takes place in the west half of the state. The one time I deer hunted
    out there I saw way to many people to be safe, now I hunt deer in 
    Norther NH and don't usually see anyone buy my hunting party. This is 
    on public land so it is not all crazy.
    
    In NH at least, pre-filling your tag makes the tag invalid. If caught
    with it pre-filled the warden will take it from you and your deer
    season is over.  Why bother, in order to tag it you have to get to it.
    Simply make sure it is dead first thing when you get there. If it is
    dead it ain't going anywhere.
    
    --Bob
    

    Barry,
    
    very sorry to hear about your experience... it's people like that, that
    make me glad I hunt elsewhere.  Sounds like you did everything right,
    not much more you could have done.  Unfortunately there will be guys
    like that in the woods no matter where you go.  Pete said it perfectly,
    not much you can do but leave him thinking about what an ass he just
    made of himself in front of his thug buddies.  No deer in the freezer
    but you can be satisfied that you at least got a shot and connected.
    
    what a shame... 
    
    In regards to where to shoot deer to guarantee a quick kill... man, you
    guys must be hunting under some really fabulous conditions, to have
    time to sit and wait for an oportunity to only shoot deer in the
    shoulders, or spine or head...  or your just terrific marksman, cause
    i'll tell you, i will never take a head shot, too many things can go
    wrong.  Someone earlier mentioned head shots either offering a quick
    kill or a clean miss... no way!!!  clean miss?? ha!!!  I've seen and
    heard about too many deer walking around with broken jaws from
    guaranteed kill shots to the head... only to walk around and starve.
    
    you did all you could do, a perfect kill shot, a mortally wounded
    deer...  thats all you can expect.  It's too much to expect all the
    people in the woods to have scruples.
    
    sucks!!!
    
    good luck during the remainder!  Fra

    Ditto what Fra said on the head shot.  I've personally witnessed a
    situation where the deer's mouth was shot off.  Fortunately, another
    shot put the deer down.  It was not a pretty sight.
    
    Mark.

    Barry,
    
    Too bad! It happened to me on the first deer I ever shot at in Mass.,
    so I know how ya feel. I was sick for a week thinking about it!
    
    I have learned a valuable lesson, as I'm sure you will from this
    experience. When the deer goes down, keep the gun trained on it til you
    are sure it's down for good!
    
    I shot another deer a couple years ago in mass, broke it's spine.
    I was amazed to have at least a half dozen guys show up, as I'm
    standing over the deer trying to decide whether I really needed to
    shoot it again....they made it an easy decision. If that deer had gone
    another 50-100 yrds., I'd have probably lost that one also!
    
    Believe me the majority of guys out there would not feel bad tagging
    an animal that someone had already hit.....can't give them a chance.
    
    ps. From the way you describe the situation....sounds like this guy
    had been through this scenario before!
    
    Hang in there....good luck for the remainder!
    
    Barry

    
    I too agree with Fra. The only shot I'll ever take is a heart-lung
    shot.
    
    
    Barry, Long time no see, I won't even ask how things are going.
    
    I don't understand why someone would want a deer that's been put down
    by another. I wouldn't be bothered to even shoot.
    
    These guy's are meat hunters.........
    
    Rick
    

      Gotta agree with Fra, I don't like head shots for the reason he
    stated.  I hunted Monday out in Montoray.  Couldn't believe the number
    of guys in the woods.  Can honestly say it was the first only time I
    have truely been scared to be in the woods.  Had two guys take stands 
    aprox. 50 to 60 yds on either side of me after they acknowledged I was
    there.  I just moved on. Never again in MA unless it's private land.
    
    Jeff

	As others have stated here I myself would not take a head shot as it is 
to risky. After last years shotgun season in Mass I decided to pass on this 
years season as I ran into to many nut cases in the woods. So this year it was
bowhunting only for me, never saw another hunter at all, either in NH or Mass.

	Sorry you lost your deer to s sh*thead like that, hope he chokes on it.
I was surprised he didn't decided to sit in your stand and claim it as his, and
at the end of the day rip it off.



					Better luck next time.

						Alan
 

    I agree with you Jeff. It was scary walking in the woods Monday. There
    were hunters everywhere. Even if I had missed that deer he would of 
    never made it. There were 4 guys in a line waiting about 50-60 yards 
    apart. 7:00 am there were 7 guys around this deer like flys on shit.
    I cursed that son of b*tch, he'll never get another deer. To top it all
    off, he said it was his first deer.
    
    Nice to hear from you Rick. Haven't talk to you in awhile. Congrats
    on your N.H. deer. I have to try a shot a bigger one.
    
           Barry

    I hate to say it, being a Mass. native, but in the past few years I've
    gotten really soured on hunting Mass. Too crowded, more and more land
    being posted, whole towns where hunting is by _written_ permission
    only, hell, in Blandford your written permission has to be on a 
    (deleted) official form, fercrissake. We even have a town where 
    hunting is banned altogether. (Amherst.)
    
    I used to hunt off Rte. 202, across from where the Quabbin is being
    hunted for the first time. Nice terrain, good deer population, but
    too damn many guys wandering around, mucking up the patterns, etc.
    During one shotgun season opener, I was able to track a deer by the
    sound of all the different guns popping away at it. I got out of the
    woods early. Between Pelham and Belchertown, about 8 miles, I counted
    about one _hundred_ cars. Ridiculous. 
    
    One year I put up a good stand in a promising area. Opening day of bow,
    I got into the stand real early. Come first light, I hear steps
    approaching, it's some sonofabitch heading right for the stand. He
    looks up at me, then heads off in a hurry. A few minutes later, I
    see him climbing a big dead tree 60 yards away. A while later, I
    look over, the jerk is smoking a cigarette! I got out of the tree,
    quarter of eight on opening morning, and never went back. Crazy.
    
    Now I hunt in the more western part of the state, but you still have 
    to deal with bozos, posting, permission slips, etc. I've spent most
    of my hunting time the last few years in Vermont. At least there
    you've got more elbow room, don't have Big Brother telling you
    to wear that damn orange, you can use a handgun or a real rifle 
    (I loathe slugs, and think buckshot is insane in the Mass. crowds.) 
    
    Frankly, I'm going to start looking for a small camp in the Adirondacks, 
    and to _hell_ with hunting this state altogether. It just isn't fun
    any more. 
    
    LUNER::PERLA, you have my sincerest sympathy about getting your deer
    stolen. This state needs a good house cleaning. Or maybe an enema.
    
    Dana Charbonneau (who used to be a proud son of Massachusetts)
    

    
    Phewww! Dana, I couldn't have described Mass better. As a N.H. resident
    I've asked myself why I come down here from time to time.
    
    Good deer herd down here.   Maybe it's crazy because the season is so
    short? Maybe the short season is why the deer seem to be so many?
    
    
    Maybe Mass should have a 30 day gun season including Sundays...This
    would distribute the hunter population more evenly rather than having
    90,000 hunters in the woods within 9 days. You know, after a couple of
    weeks in N.H. the ranks thin out and what's left is the dedicated
    sportsman.
    
    Rick
     
    

    
    
      Fra,
    
         I do agree that some deer get hit farther out in the face than you
    want to hit them but I think what alot of those type hits come from are
    guys are just shooting at the deer as its running.
      
        Personally I put the crosshairs right under the ear and squeeze the
    trigger, if I am hunting with a shotgun (without a scope) I would not
    try for a headshot!
    
      another good place to shoot for is right at the back of the head
    where the neck meets the head.
    
      Each person is different in their choice of shot placement, I guess
    that whatever you feel the most comfortable with you use.
    
    
                    just my opinion here guys not the law of the woods,
    
                                                   Lee
    

    
    Rick, southern NH is becoming as bad as Mass, if not worse.
    
    Mark.

 I saw alot of hunters in one spot in southern NH (at the time I said there
were "so many hunters in here that they need a turnstyle") but at least
they were courteous. I left that place by 10:00 am, though. Too many other 
hunters for my tastes. If I wanted to see people, I'd go into Boston.

    
    
     Sorry to hear about your stollen deer..Thats one of my biggest fears
    of hunting. I had something similar happen to me in mass duck
    hunting at the Parker River Refuge. This guy was about 40 yards to our
    left and shot at a duck flying over head. Clearly missed it, as it flew
    in front of my friend and I , we both took a shot at it, it dropped and
    by the time I lowered my gun and started moving towards the duck this
    guy was running in high speed to it. After a few choice words I said
    the hell with it. It's too bad people have to be this way. 
    
    Gus
                                                               

 Only "sportsmen" who are unconfident in their own abilities as outdoorsmen
would do such a thing.

    To all who are sick of hunting your crowded woods, come on down south. 
    Go buy your non resident license, and relax in the woods, and see only
    deer and wildife.  Of course this is private property.  Damn, the way
    you guys make it sound it being up there, I would either move, or say
    the hell with hunting.  Probably move.
    
    bob
    

Mark, I'm not sure where you hunt in So. N.H. where you are plagued by crowds, 
but I spent many days afield this year in So. N.H. and I had almost total
solitude. Probably because I'm a little west of the bigger towns. One place that
was GREAT this year was Stoddard - this is a true wilderness of many thousands
of acres and posting is almost non-existent. After you found the best deer sign 
there, you could consistently see deer (BUT I didn't get one there!). And
last year I watched a huge bear, and this year my son and I ALWAYS saw fresh
moose sign. 

Other places I like are Wilton, Peterboro, Jaffrey, Antrim, Nelson, Hancock,
Greenfield.

Although I don't like crowds, I often wished that more guys were in the woods
to push the deer around a little more.  In New York, that's usually how we
have scored. I guess I like a balance of having solitude, but also having more
deer movement.

As for Mass., I never hunted there. But I guess the attraction is the larger
numbers of deer there, compared to N.H. (something like 70,000 compared to
50,000 I think ?





                                            Dave

    I really think mass is only a zoo on the opener... I've been out every 
    morning this week and hav'nt seen but a few guys, and in this cold and
    wind and freezing rain and sleet, you gotta know that these are the
    dedicated souls Rick speaks of... This morning it was cold as hell and 
    I didn't see another guy... unfortunately I didn't see a deer either.
    Saturday will be a zoo again, but alas, i'll be in VT muzzleloading 
    and closing the camp.
    
    What kills me is that I hunt Mass archery and rarely if ever see
    another hunter in the woods... come the opener of shotgun though and 
    every yahoo and their brother is out there. 
    
    Hell, I had one guy sitting in my portable treestand the other day, now
    that takes some brass ones.
    
    Fra

    .36 Well said. You couldn't have said it any better. The guy made a 
    comment saying it was his first deer. I didn't want to get in a fight
    with this guy. I shot a few deer in my days hunting. I just hate 
    thinking about what happened that day. Maybe I'll get a bigger one
    this weekend.
    
             Good Hunting,
             Barry

>Mark, I'm not sure where you hunt in So. N.H. where you are plagued by crowds, 

 Just at one place; the Litchfield town forest. It was swarming with an army in
orange and camo.

> (something like 70,000 compared to 50,000 I think ?)

 We have (had before the season?) 42,000 deer. The take this year so far
is about 8,700 deer, about 900 better than last year.

    
    Barry long time-no see also. Sorry for your loss. This type of story
    seems to come up every year out of Mass. I'm not saying it's a bad
    place to hunt but like a few others have stated, with more and more
    land posted this concentrates the hunters into the same areas and these
    types of things happen. Certain areas of southern N.H. are getting like
    this only due to the reports of large heards in these areas and the
    popularity of the "HOT" spots. Those type of areas are the ones to stay
    away from. The bucks go nocturnal ASAP and few will reach bragging
    class. Find the out of the way spots and or travel that extra 1/2 hour
    walking deeper in the woods.
    
                                                           Guy
    

    re.33 >come on down south
    
    Bob, you're not perchance a hiring manager with a handful
    of open reqs, are you? ;-) ;-)

Barry,
	I am truly sorry for what happened to you.  I have been deer hunting
in Mass. for over 20 years and I have seen it get progressively worse every
year.  This was the first year in which I felt very nervous being out there on
opening day with all those orange dots bouncing around the country.  Yours is 
not the first, and I know last, story in which incidents like this will
happen.

	I can only  hope that the scumbag who stole your deer, or one of his
friends, works for DEC and is reading this notefile.  Maybe then they will 
realize that they are not hunters and sportsmen and do not deserve to be in
the woods.


Ken

    re a few back, "open reqs".  what's that?  No, far from management. 
    But Atlanta has got alot of companies moving down here with openings.
    Back to our pre scheduled hunting note.
    
    bob
    

    The original story brings me to an incident this year while bow hunting
    in Pa.  ....
    
    My hunting partner and I were waiting for our third member to get out
    of the woods (around 10:30 AM or so)... We were in farm country, on a
    dirt road. Suddenly, my buddy slaps me on the arm and points up the
    dirt road to a field. There's a deer barrel-a$$ing down the hill! And
    it's coming right for us! 
    
    So, we both get our bows and go to the place where the deer ran accross
    the road. It's REAL thick where we think he crossed, plus it's posted
    (sheesh!). We were both saying "damn, too bad this isn't part of the
    farm that we have permission for..." We stay on the road (of course...)
    Then, as we're walking back we hear it blow at us, and the deer was
    REAL close. Holy smokes, it's only 5 or 10 yards away... Then I happen
    to look down at the side of the road where the dirt turns to grass...
    Blood! "That deer's hit! And he's hit bad cause the blood is frothy
    and bright red"... At that exact instant we see the deer slowly
    bounding away from us, and it's got an arrow stuck in it's rump!
    After this, we saw the deer go into a thick patch of bushes and briars,
    and we DON'T see him come out. What to do...What to do, damnit!!!!
    He's run onto posted land....
    
      My buddy and I both made the decision right there that "putting this
    deer down as quickly as possible was worth a possible fine for tres-
    passing. So, we went in, and found it, very much alive and suffering.
    I put two shots through the deer's chest, and it died very quickly.
    We recovered the hunters arrow (whoever it was, we didn't know at the
    time), and hauled the deer out onto the roadside.
    
      Just as we were coming out, down the hill the others came....
    
      Steve (my hunting partner) and I just said "there's your deer", and
    that was that. I made sure that it was his by just seeing if he had the
    same arrow/broadhead configuration. "let's see, 2117's with 2 brown and
    1 white feather fletches and thunderhead 125's... yep, it's yours..."
    
      Granted, this wasn't a big deer, but Steve and I talked about it as
    we were hauling it off the posted property... "you want to tag it?!?
    Naw! I didn't shoot it ~really~, why would I want to tag it... How
    about you?!? ... Nope, I feel the same way you do!.... I don't want
    it! ...."
    
      So, I guess there's a bit of hunters ethics thrown in on this one!
    I doubt that these guys would have found that deer if we  hadn't seen
    it run onto the posted property. And, going onto that posted property
    wasn't the "lawful" thing to do, yet, was it the "right" thing to do?
    We felt so... And, the "less than perfect" arrow placement by this
    hunter (dead-straight rear end shot)... And, retrieving and giving
    him this deer without any arguments or whatever...
    
      What do you others think?
    
    
     Joe

    ya done good, Joe. If the posting part bothers you, you might write 
    to the landowner explaining that you did cross onto his land, and why.
    
    I believe some states allow you to 'trespass' in pursuit of wounded
    game without penalty.

    PS. better, IMHO, that the landowner get your letter than that he
    finds a dead, _wasted_ deer on his property.

    Damned straight, Dana.
    
    Mark.

    
    Joe,
    
    I've always been damn glad to know ya and to hunt with ya....
    I sure wouldn't expect any less from you. Well done!!
    
    DAP
     

>    ya done good, Joe. If the posting part bothers you, you might write 
>    to the landowner explaining that you did cross onto his land, and why.

 What if he lives in a state (such as NH) where to do so would be to indicate
the commission of a crime, and what if the landowner is your regular anti-
jerk? He could be setting himself up to lose hunting privileges for a year or 
more. Maybe he ought to find ought what sort of state laws govern his acts 
before possibly incriminating himself. Just a thought (though I agree with
you in principle),

 The Doctah

Joe, it was the right thing to do. The letter is  a good idea IMHO and just
a first name last initial should be sufficient if legslity is issue. Who knows
maybe ya even get to hunt that land next time.

Jack

    Thanks very much to all !!!!
    
      I've been "semi-wondering" if we did the right thing in terms of
    trespassing. What with all the laws and hoopla that surround that
    issue, you tend to be apprehensive. Certain things override your
    natural tendancies to follow the laws to a "T", and this was one of
    them... 
    
      BTW, the hunter said that his "3rd shot" at the deer was the one
    that got him. Personally, I couldn't believe that he took the shot
    that he did after seeing the results. I don't believe that I would
    ever take a straight-away rear end shot. It certainly wasn't a good
    killing shot, and the deer running as far as it did (at least 500
    yards) proves it. A broadside in the chest or hindquarter is what
    I would consider a "good" shot for archery. Not having bowhunted
    that long, maybe I'm off base but I don't think so... :-)  I had
    about 3 running shot oppurtunities in Pa. this year, and there was
    no way I was going to chance it, not with my skill that is :-) ...
    I have seen a few videos (Bowhunting October Whitetails is one) where
    the hunters like Barry Wensel HAVE that skill to take a running shot.
    I certainly ain't in their league though !  :-)
    
      Getting back to the original note, those people who STOLE your
    deer are NOT hunters. Those yahoos need to read "Deer and Deer Hunting"
    by Dr. Robert Wegner to understand the activity that they are
    "abusing"! Anyone who acts in the manner inwhich these guys acted
    are a detriment to the sport IMHO! They're what I call "woods slobs".
    The day that the results outweigh the "hunt and hunting experience"
    is the day I hang up the gun and bow...
    
    
    Joe

 Joe-

 If you were in NH, "the right thing" as prescribed by the law is to mark the 
site where the animal went into the forbidden zone and get a conservation
officer to retrieve the deer.

 Frankly, I think your solution was morally right, but the law and morals
don't mix especially well...

 The Doctah

    
    On opening day in Mass. (N. Adams area) my father-in-law told me of a 
    hunter in his party wounding a deer that traveled into posted land. 
    The hunter went to see the owner and was told "STAY OFF MY PROPERTY"!
    His next alternative was calling the local police. When they arrived
    the policeman heard both sides and told the hunter to go in and get the
    deer. He then scolded the land owner for being stupid and thoughtless.
    
    
                                                         Guy

    
    re .52
    
    I would be very surprised if the police had that right, but then 
    again you are talking about MA.
    
    I agree, Joe did the morally and ethically correct thing.
    
    --Bob
    

    Bob,  why cant the police officer do this?  (RE: .52)
    
    What is the difference of a police officer or a fish and game officer?
    I'm assuming the fish and game offcier can do this..
    
    Don

In Colorado the law reads "If the (wounded) animal goes on private
property you must make a reasonable attempt to contact the landowner
before pursuing."  I've heard of cases where the hunter was denied
access and the DOW corrected the issue.

    
    re .54
    
    Don,
    
    I just assume that the police cannot force you to allow someone onto
    your land. Like I said an assumption.  I make the same assumption about
    the F&G officers.  I could be wrong...
    
    --Bob
    

>    I just assume that the police cannot force you to allow someone onto
>    your land. Like I said an assumption.  I make the same assumption about
>    the F&G officers. 

 In NH, a conservation officer has the right to pursue a wounded deer onto
posted property. 

    
 >In NH, a conservation officer has the right to pursue a wounded deer onto
>posted property. 
    
    Now don't get me wrong, I totally agree that the police should tell
    the guy to get the animal, or at least someone should get it, if 
    for no other reason to end the suffering.
    
    But the original reply said the police told the guy he could go onto
    the posted land AFTER the owner had said no way.  I am just 
    questioning whether the police have the authority to force you to
    let another private citizen onto the land.
    
    --Bob
    

    Sounds to me like the cop was bluffing, and assuming that the
    landowner wouldn't call him on it. The landowner was either
    too dense to understand that the animal should be retrieved,
    or a 4-star jerk. (Then again, maybe he planned to retrieve 
    the deer for himself, in which case I award him a fifth star.)

>    But the original reply said the police told the guy he could go onto
>    the posted land AFTER the owner had said no way.  I am just 
>    questioning whether the police have the authority to force you to
>    let another private citizen onto the land.
 
 Yeah, and I'm agreeing with you. :-) I don't think they have that right
either. Sorry I wasn't clearer.

 The Doctah